1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:06,320 Speaker 1: Look, you are a human being, and once you understand 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: that you're much bigger than this game, then we can 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:12,120 Speaker 1: play this game with reckless abandon We can play as 4 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: though it Stewart Dott because we know that my life 5 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,400 Speaker 1: is not predicated on the score, and that changes everything. 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: This is the Reform Sports Project, a podcast about restoring 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: healthy balance and perspective in all areas of sports through 8 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: education and advocacy. Hi. This is Nick Bonacore from the 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: Reform Sports Project podcast. My guest Today is an elite 10 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:36,879 Speaker 1: level sports psychologist, mental performance coach, and Reform Sports Project 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: Advisory Board member Seth Pepper. Seth has developed mental training 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: systems that have helped Olympians, world champions, Netflix film directors, 13 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: and executives optimize their potential. With over twenty five years 14 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: of experience competing and coaching when the stakes are at 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 1: their greatest, Seth is seen firsthand the results the power 16 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: of the mind can deliver. Having been a multi time 17 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: All American and Hall of Fame swimmer at the University 18 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: of Arizona, Seth and I discussed his experience as a 19 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: sports spirit as an elite level athlete, mental health and 20 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: mental performance. I'm extra tical today my brother in law 21 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: who happens to be a legend, a legend for many reasons. Uh, 22 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: certainly in his own mind, he's probably more of a legend, 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: but not he's he's a he's he's definitely. I wouldn't 24 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: know if his wife would say that. I'm just kidding. 25 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: I don't want to get too personal here, but now 26 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: he's a legend in that obviously a hell of a guy, 27 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: but certainly one of the greatest, most storied swimmers in 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: the history of the University of Arizona UM, you know, 29 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: storied career Hall of Famer UM. Just pumped to have him. 30 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: Now he's a mental coach and uh, doing unbelievable work. 31 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: I can't wait to dig into him. I'm my brother 32 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: in law, Seth Pepper, Seth Man. Thanks for hopping on, Bud, 33 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. It's an honor to be here. 34 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: I've been looking forward to this day for a long time. Yeah, 35 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: and a little backstory, right, you know when we started, 36 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: when I started RSP, you were kind of just you mind, 37 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: just taking like a two minute tripped down memory lane. 38 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: Like I called you and said, dude, I got you know, 39 00:01:57,560 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: I'm working on this thing. You know, I didn't really 40 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: know what to call it. And you know, you happen 41 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 1: to kind of starting on your journey, which you're on now, 42 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,240 Speaker 1: if you don't mind just kind of talking about that 43 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: a little bit and then we'll kind of see how 44 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: this whole thing came together. Yeah, definitely. Yes, Timing is everything. 45 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: You know, It's like proximity to an opportunity. And you know, 46 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:17,520 Speaker 1: I think both of us were ready for a launch. 47 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 1: And I just remember like that happened at the beach house, 48 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,799 Speaker 1: right in conversation and You're like, hey, let's do a 49 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 1: little interview right now, and PROMPTU. I was a little 50 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: I was nervous. I wasn't used to it, and it 51 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 1: just frames things up just right for me because then 52 00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I could see, you know, the 53 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: connection of what you were doing and then what I 54 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: was gonna do, and it just fit really well. And 55 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 1: you know, ever since, it's it's the connectivity of everything. 56 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: So you know, I've always been pretty good at, you know, 57 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: staying in touch with people and connecting with people. So 58 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 1: I think it just caught like wildfire for both of us. 59 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I just it's been incredible. It's the power 60 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: is for right the mental performance aspect of it, which 61 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: you know is something that you you that's what you 62 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: do when you're using your expi arians as a world 63 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 1: class athlete back in the day and helping others and 64 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: and you know what I want to talk about with you. 65 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: There's a story, right. This is one of the funniest things. 66 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: When you first told me this, When I told you 67 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: the whole premise of Reform Sports Project, it was like, man, 68 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,760 Speaker 1: you sports is crazy, you know, and I was living it. 69 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: You were just starting to live it, but you got it. 70 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: And you told me the story of how Brighton I 71 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 1: think it was Brighton was at a you know, one 72 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: of her organizations, and you remember being kind of like 73 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: asked or that, hey, you know your she might be gifted. 74 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: You know you might be gifted or something like that. 75 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: I forget old she was and and and you were 76 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: you you're flattered. But you remember telling me like, dude, 77 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: like it's so easy. I can see how parents can 78 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: get sucked into this. And I remember you telling me like, dude, 79 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be sold this stuff, like let my 80 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 1: kid be a kid, because you know what it's like. 81 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: And you because you have at least this is kind 82 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:55,960 Speaker 1: of what you explain to me. You have experience as 83 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: an athlete, you weren't tempted to take the bait, or 84 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: you didn't you felt comfortable enough in your own skin 85 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: from your experience and not have to go, oh my god, 86 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: me and my wife have to drop everything and go 87 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: seven days a week NonStop. Whereas a lot of parents 88 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: don't get that. Right, You hear that your kid may 89 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: be gifted and next thing you know, it's like, oh 90 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: my god, I got the next Mozart on my hands. 91 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: Can you talk about that feelings? I think a lot 92 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: of parents go through that stuff. Yeah, yeah, I mean, 93 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: first of all, I know that you know, no matter 94 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: what story we hear, it's easy to take something out 95 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: of context, and you know, I always want to frame 96 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: things that parents mean well, you know, they just don't 97 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,520 Speaker 1: have the information at the time. And so for me, 98 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: I had the information. You know. I started my sport 99 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: when I was fourteen years old, eventually became one of 100 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: the best in the world at it very quickly. I 101 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: saw the wreckage when I first started swimming. I saw 102 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 1: kids that were showing up because their parents wanted them there, 103 00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,600 Speaker 1: or it's just the identity of their family, um, but 104 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:00,719 Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with whether they wanted to 105 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: be there. And so with my own kid, you know, 106 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: I remember them saying she's so gifted. I'm like, she's 107 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: six years old. You know, she's like she's just figuring 108 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: stuff out, you know, And it was easy to see that. 109 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: It was a great compliment, you know, everyone likes to 110 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: hear that their child has some natural ability. But the 111 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: strange thing was was when I pushed back, they got 112 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: more aggressive, which was very bizarre for me because you know, 113 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 1: like I gave you our answer, which she's not interested 114 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: in competition, it's way too young. And then they started 115 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:39,640 Speaker 1: doing you know, and I think this happens really on 116 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: a subtle level, so it might sound really extreme, um, 117 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,800 Speaker 1: but they kind of harassed her in a bit, you know, 118 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: like why aren't you going to the next level? You know, 119 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: And then she overheard you know, some of these because 120 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,440 Speaker 1: a lot of these coaches are younger coaches and so 121 00:05:54,600 --> 00:05:58,039 Speaker 1: their past you know, athletes, and so they're kind of 122 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: chatting between them and saying, oh, she's that girl. Oh 123 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: her parents. So she started getting labeled and I thought, 124 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: this is just a really strange, you know situation, and 125 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: I felt bad. She'd come on crying and she said, yeah, 126 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: they're asking me again about why am I not doing 127 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:17,920 Speaker 1: the competition level. And you know, I'm like, she's six 128 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: years old, lea here alone. And so I got aggressive 129 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: and I went into the office. I went up to 130 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 1: the owners and I said, look, leave her alone. I 131 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:28,720 Speaker 1: was one of the best in the world, and I 132 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 1: started when I was fourteen years old, So back off, 133 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: you know. And I know that sounds aggressive, but they 134 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: were being aggressive in her world, and I wanted them 135 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,919 Speaker 1: to know. I knew better. You can't trick me. Kids 136 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: can start when they're young adults and they can still 137 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 1: go on. I mean, I became fourth in the world, 138 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: two time national champion. I started. I learned how to 139 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 1: swim when I was fourteen years old. My brother is 140 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: a national champion in swimming in the same event, for 141 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: the first brothers to ever accomplish this. He started when 142 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: he was seventeen. These are true stories, these are real stories. 143 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: That's insane. That's insane, because you know all the chatter 144 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 1: now is start early, start often. And you know John O'Sullivan, 145 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: he's the founder of Change in the Game project. But 146 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 1: I remember herring him saying you know, we're we're we're 147 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: winning the race to the wrong finish line. You know, 148 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: it's to try to get the best head start. You know, 149 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:25,760 Speaker 1: it's everyone's trying to win it and be the best 150 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,040 Speaker 1: they can when they're ten, eleven, twelve, third team because 151 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: of this, you know, quite frankly, it's keeping up with 152 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: the Joneses man, and I know that feeling of you know, 153 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: hearing so and so is doing really well. They gotta 154 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: go on this travel team or whatever it is. That's 155 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: a great way to get apparent emotionally involved. And there's 156 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: ways that could be manipulated, and I think at times 157 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: people feel like they are being taken advantage of. But 158 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: you talked about the wrong information. How do people go 159 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: about accessing the right information without feeling like they're having 160 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: the wool pulled over their eyes? Well, I see, it's 161 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: it's a tricky, Uh, it's a tricky world that we're in. 162 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,160 Speaker 1: We're used to being marketed to and we don't even 163 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: realize it. And so I I work with all ages now, um, 164 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: you know, all the way from eight years old all 165 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: the way up into the sixties. And you know, at 166 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 1: first I was looking at the situation and and I 167 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 1: was thinking, this is really bizarre, and then it just 168 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: became even more bizarre that I would have literally eight 169 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: year old, nine year old, ten year old people telling me. 170 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: You know, I'd ask him what are your goals? You know, 171 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 1: I'd be talking about Scooby Doo, and then I go 172 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: over to talking about goals. You know, it's just old 173 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 1: that you're working with kids that are athletes at that 174 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: age whose parents are paying you to kind of be 175 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: their performance coach. Yes, yeah, yeah, And you know, it's 176 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: it's a strange situation because I started when I was fourteen. 177 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: But what I felt like I could give, you know, 178 00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: was perspective and hopefully there was wan in their world 179 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 1: that could say, who are you outside of this sport? Right, 180 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: So that's what I was trying to still trying to 181 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: to develop, because the stories that we're seeing now are 182 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: basically people have overidentified with the accomplishment. And so what 183 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:19,160 Speaker 1: I'm trying to avoid with these kids, if if we're 184 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:21,679 Speaker 1: talking about just the kids for this moment, are what 185 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: I call trophy hunters, because at the end of the day, 186 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: if you really want to go on to college and 187 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: even maybe even the pros um the trophies aren't going 188 00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: to get you there. You know, I learned that I 189 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 1: saw kids that had tons of trophies that I you know, 190 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 1: didn't help them when they were getting into, you know, 191 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 1: the age where the college coaches were starting to look. 192 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: They didn't care about the trophies. They cared about how 193 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 1: how good are you? And so that's what I try 194 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: to do, is, you know, I try to get them 195 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: to understand what I have This really simple, you know, 196 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: phrase and and mindset that I try to instill is 197 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 1: that the sport is what you do. Who you are, okay, 198 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: who you are as a human being, and what you 199 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: do out there on the court, in on the field, 200 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: wherever it might be, that does not change your self worth. 201 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: You know. Of course, I'm talking to an eight year old, 202 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: so self worth might not be exactly the words that 203 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,960 Speaker 1: I use, but I'm trying to instill with them a 204 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: balance of like, you know, talking about school, talking about 205 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: outside interests. You know, I've had some fascinating conversations with 206 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: world champion professional athletes that their career is multimillion dollars, 207 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 1: you know, intimate conversations and they'll say something to me, 208 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 1: it's you know, I think in certain ways, it's kind 209 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: of heartbreaking. Where I had one that said, it's too 210 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: bad that I got really good at this this sport 211 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: at a young age, because I really think I could 212 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 1: have been good at musical theater. I'm like, what you 213 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 1: can do this? You know, like you could still do 214 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,800 Speaker 1: musical theater. What what are you talking about. I'm in this, 215 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 1: you know, this is my sport, is my identity. And 216 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: I said, no, No, you're a human being, you know, 217 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: like you could go do other things. What you're saying, 218 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: if I go to musical theater or if I go 219 00:11:09,320 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: take an interest in something that it won't take away 220 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: from my sport. No, it will encourage you. It will 221 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: light you from the inside, it will make you better. Right. 222 00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: So I'm trying to instill this at a young age. 223 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 1: But you know, to be quite honest, I have kids 224 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: coming up. I'll talk about the goals and I'll say 225 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 1: what would you like to see happen? And by the 226 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: end of the year, what would you like to see 227 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: in a couple of years whatever it might be. And 228 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: we kind of go through short, mid and long term, 229 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: and I will have little kids say I want a 230 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 1: D one full ride scholarship, and I just those are 231 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: not their words. And where the heck do you know 232 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: what a D one is? Because I was a D 233 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:52,640 Speaker 1: one full ride scholarship eventually, and I don't even know 234 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: what D one was, right, Like, it didn't it didn't 235 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,839 Speaker 1: even register. I just wanted to go fast, right. So yeah, 236 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: it's a it's a different world out there. There's so 237 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: much access to information that is, like the kids are 238 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: way ahead of you know where they're actually at. And 239 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: so yeah, it's it's a landscape that's you know, it's 240 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,199 Speaker 1: interesting to say the least. One other part of your 241 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: history that I think is fascinating. And you're not the 242 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: only person I've heard, you know, speak to this, and 243 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: it's kind of almost like a common thread with a 244 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: lot of you know, I've interviewed Hall of Fame, Major 245 00:12:25,559 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 1: League Baseball players, right, professional football player, it doesn't matter, Olympians, 246 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:32,280 Speaker 1: guys like yourself. And and one thing that you said, 247 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,719 Speaker 1: um and your story was that everything was intrinsic, came 248 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 1: from yourself, and in particular, when it came to go 249 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: into your training, you would literally found not mistaken, would 250 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: be riding the bike by yourself. And this is where 251 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: I think it's people often ask or look for, like, 252 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: what are ways that I could help my kids? And 253 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,120 Speaker 1: a lot of times the best way that you can 254 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 1: help them least. What I have found from parenting myself 255 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: is back off, you know, hold them accountable, meaning let's 256 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:59,680 Speaker 1: see how much you take hold of your career. Yourself 257 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,320 Speaker 1: right here will help you facilitate this. But I'm not 258 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: waking up. I'm not setting your alarm clock, you know, 259 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: like Avery Mile, you know, you know Avery, he wants 260 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: to wrestle in college. All this stuff. Well, he's at 261 00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: an age now where his diet, certain things in his 262 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 1: regiment have to be cleaned up for him to get 263 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: to another level, and that's not necessarily comfortable for him. 264 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: I'm not going to sit here and disrupt my life. 265 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: And you're sixteen years old, you know. I mean, if 266 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,199 Speaker 1: you want to get to that level, it's gonna come 267 00:13:24,240 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: from you. Can you talk about how you kind of 268 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,880 Speaker 1: had to grab your career by the bootstraps and get 269 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: yourself to practice and all that where I think it 270 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: seems like your parents that came from love, but inadvertently 271 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: you you had to kind of grow up pretty quickly 272 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,840 Speaker 1: and take ownership. Oh yeah, yeah, definitely I remember going 273 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: my dad. He built classical guitars and my mom was 274 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: an English teacher, so they didn't know what to do 275 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: with an athlete. I remember going to my mom and saying, 276 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, you could write a book on parents sing, 277 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 1: you know, elite athletes, because you just raised two sons 278 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: that became national champions in the same event and the 279 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: name sport and it's never been done ever. And she said, well, 280 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 1: it's gonna be a pretty short book, you know, because 281 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,560 Speaker 1: because really I went to my dad and I said, hey, Dad, 282 00:14:11,559 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 1: I got this idea, and I don't really want to 283 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: go after this. I want to be one of the 284 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: best athletes in the world, and you know, I've chosen 285 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: swimming and that's gonna be you know. And he goes, okay, 286 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: I'll sign the release forms, but you're gonna have to 287 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: pay for the sport. You're gonna have to get yourself 288 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 1: to work out, and you're gonna have to find a 289 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,400 Speaker 1: way to get to the meets. Now, some people out 290 00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 1: there might look at that and go, oh, that's neglect, 291 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: But to me, in my wiring, I was like all 292 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 1: I needed was just to let him know this is 293 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna be up to and you know it 294 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: serves a purpose. I mean, your obstacle is your way. 295 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 1: So I didn't need his approval, you know, I didn't 296 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: need his support, so to speak. Um, what I did 297 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: is I got on my bike and I wrote ten 298 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: miles to go to work out, you know, And then 299 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: I got on my bike and I wrote ten miles 300 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: to go home. And I did that every day. I 301 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: had to go get a up in the summer, you know, 302 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 1: I was out, you know, mucking out's horse stalls in 303 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: the summer, you know, to be able to pay for 304 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: my sport, you know, and if you go to the future, 305 00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: when I'm in, you know, at the top of my game. Uh, 306 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: my legs were my strengths. And I know that that's 307 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: because of all those days of riding my bike to practice. 308 00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:24,080 Speaker 1: Some days I wrote, you know, I did skateboarding, I mean, 309 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: anything to get me to work out. But you know, 310 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: when I got to work out, you think I ever 311 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: wasted it, never busting my butt just to get there. 312 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: And I was going to make the most you know, 313 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: of that opportunity that day. And that served everything, you know. 314 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: And my parents were loving parents. They weren't there was 315 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: no neglect it was just like, Okay, this is your thing, 316 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,160 Speaker 1: this is your project, go on it, go do it. 317 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: You know, they never they never really went to my meats, right. 318 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: They started showing up when we were you know, at 319 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:57,120 Speaker 1: the national stage and the international stage. They would go 320 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: to those competitions, but they really let us have our space. 321 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: And I think that's really important. At least it was 322 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: for me to to really just own it, like this 323 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: is my project. This isn't an identity, this is like 324 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,120 Speaker 1: a hobby at first. Let's just you know, see where 325 00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: this goes. And and I like that, you know, and 326 00:16:14,720 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: that served me answerved my brother. I'm not saying that 327 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: that's a common story, but you know, to me, it 328 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: was perfect for us. And I think that's you know, 329 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: nowadays there's such a um you kind of touched on 330 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: this earlier. Everything's readily available, right. You mentioned D one. 331 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: You know, I didn't really know what the heck D 332 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: one when I was eleven, twelve, thirty, I didn't even 333 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: know what that was. I had. I was just it 334 00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: wasn't even a thought. Nowadays, like you said, you got 335 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, kids are my goal. I want to go 336 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: I want to get a D one scholarship or I 337 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: want to do this, and it's like everything is at 338 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: your fingertips, right. We have personal trainers, we have mental 339 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 1: performance coaches at time. Now, I know you're dealing with 340 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:52,840 Speaker 1: a certain demographic of caliber of athlete and and of 341 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: course you have professionals on the pro tours and all 342 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: that stuff as well. But you know, as parents, most 343 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: people who are parents out there never played the sport 344 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: past high school, right, So oftentimes they're just following the 345 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 1: tribe or they're they're learning about this stuff and they're 346 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,240 Speaker 1: trying to do the best they can, and it's easy 347 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: to get caught up in it, right, especially if your 348 00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: kid has a little bit of talent. But at the 349 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: end of the day, you know, you look at swimming 350 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 1: and what it did for you. I think it's important, 351 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: and it gets lost of what doors open up as 352 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: a result of your sport. I think people are quick 353 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: to not look about what the long term benefits are 354 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: of youth sport participation when we get ourselves clouded on 355 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: this whole idea of you know, college scholarships and pro contracts. 356 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,959 Speaker 1: Why would you sign your girls up for sports today? 357 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:37,840 Speaker 1: Like one of the things that you have taken away 358 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:39,560 Speaker 1: from sports that have helped you get to where you 359 00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 1: are just as a man. Yeah, well, lifelong friendship. I'm 360 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: still friends with all the people I started with still 361 00:17:47,320 --> 00:17:50,639 Speaker 1: to this day decades later. Um. You know, to me, 362 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 1: I think having raised a teenager, Um, you see this switch. 363 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: An amazing teenager by the way, but still a teenager. Yeah. 364 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:04,120 Speaker 1: Once they hit that age group, it switches where their 365 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: peer group becomes their advisors, their guidance. And within my 366 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,679 Speaker 1: sporting culture, like we were locked in as a group, 367 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: so I was in good hands. So I think that 368 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: anyone that's concerned about their kids and when this teenage, 369 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: these teenage years come, you know, sports are amazing. They're 370 00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:25,760 Speaker 1: incredible because they you know, for for us, we were 371 00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: always working out, we were always tired or hungry. And 372 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,640 Speaker 1: then what you know, the time that we we had, 373 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 1: we we would go and finish our homework and then 374 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,720 Speaker 1: we you know, Washington repeat. And you know what it 375 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: really did for me personally, was it instilled this work ethic. 376 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: You know, I think that what's really key in sports 377 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 1: is that you really do start to think about the future. 378 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: You you start to talk about goals. You know, I 379 00:18:50,359 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: was surprised when I was done with my sport and 380 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: I got out into the quote unquote real world. How 381 00:18:56,280 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: few people even knew what a goal was, you know, 382 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: and that just blew my mind. I mean I was 383 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,639 Speaker 1: just like, what you don't You don't think about the future, 384 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 1: you don't build something, you know, brick by brick, and 385 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't. A lot of people just 386 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: lived one one day after the next. And so what 387 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 1: it did for me was it instilled this work ethic 388 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: with a vision of Okay, I want to get over there, 389 00:19:18,040 --> 00:19:19,840 Speaker 1: how do I do this? And then oh I got 390 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 1: to build a bridge? And then it's one brick after another. 391 00:19:23,040 --> 00:19:26,760 Speaker 1: And I think that's something that is instilled in all sports. 392 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: That's really key. So, yeah, the social aspect and then 393 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,880 Speaker 1: also the long term vision with discipline, those are life changing, 394 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,600 Speaker 1: life changing. Like when in my coaching that I do now, 395 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: you know, I always say, yeah, it's you know, we 396 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: we want to throw the ball farther, we want to 397 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 1: hit the ball straighter, we want to do this, we 398 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:47,720 Speaker 1: want to do that, But ultimately I'm trying to work 399 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,760 Speaker 1: with you on life skills. You know, it's the man 400 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: in the mirror, the woman in the mirror, you know, 401 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: like you have to take accountability of who you are 402 00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: and where you want to go with your life. And 403 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: so I'm working not only performance. I'm trying to work 404 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: on balance of how you communicate your ideas to the world. 405 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: So they're sports, you know, they're incredible, just incredible what 406 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: they can do for people. When we return, Seth and 407 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: I will dig further into his athletic journey as well 408 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: as mental health and mental performance. Welcome back to the 409 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:27,560 Speaker 1: Reform Sports Project podcast. Where Seth and I left off, 410 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: we were about to dig further in his own athletic 411 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: journey and mental health and mental performance, and I think 412 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:35,960 Speaker 1: it's important to touch on, let's face it, this is 413 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: a there is a there's been a lot of pro 414 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: athletes that have stepped up um use their platform to 415 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: talk about mental health, Simone Biles being probably the most 416 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: decorated here as of late. Of course, in the past, 417 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: there's been you know, guys in the NBA, Ben Gordon, 418 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:53,239 Speaker 1: Kevin Love, Um, you have so many others out there. 419 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: Michael Phelps has used this platform, you know, cowless times. 420 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: That's a big you know, something that he does on 421 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: wide scale, and it seems to be more and more mainstreaming, 422 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,679 Speaker 1: like the pressure these kids are dealing with at young ages. 423 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: You know, is that something that you come across, because 424 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,120 Speaker 1: I think that's a concern for all of us parents 425 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:13,000 Speaker 1: as we educate ourselves and try to find on information 426 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: um on how we can equip our kids and maybe 427 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: see some signs to know that there might be something 428 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, thank you for asking that question. Is 429 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: you know when I started my sport Lee, like I said, 430 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:30,679 Speaker 1: I saw the results of people starting early and what 431 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: I would say simply over identifying with the score. So 432 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 1: you know, I saw this interview between Michael Phelps and 433 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 1: Kevin Love and it was a short little interview and 434 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:48,320 Speaker 1: look it up online and basically Michael is saying after 435 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: he had he won twenty three gold medals. I mean, 436 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,040 Speaker 1: that's just back in my day, it was marks Its 437 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,800 Speaker 1: winning seven and people thought no one would ever beat that. 438 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 1: Michael Phelps comes along and destroys that with twenty three 439 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:06,159 Speaker 1: gold medals, and in our culture, we're kind of sold 440 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: this golden boy or a golden girl dreamed that, you know, 441 00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,200 Speaker 1: and I wanted that too. I wanted to go get 442 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 1: the gold medal and I would solve all of my 443 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:16,920 Speaker 1: problems and you know, all of that, and he did 444 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: it twenty three times over. And he is telling Kevin Love, 445 00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: who won with the Cavaliers, so he won the top 446 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:28,119 Speaker 1: you know trophy for for the NBA, and he's saying, 447 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: after twenty three gold medals, I couldn't even look myself 448 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 1: in the mirror. And I was like, everyone needs to 449 00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: hear this. Everyone needs to hear this. This man is 450 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: gone and done everything that we want to do in 451 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 1: the sports world, beyond anyone that's ever you know, tried 452 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: to do that in the Olympics or you know, in 453 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: the sport world. And he's saying that he's miserable and 454 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: why you know that, My interpretation was that when he 455 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 1: looks in the mirror, he only sees this sort of 456 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: public persona. He doesn't know who Michael is, right, and 457 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 1: that's what he's getting to know now, and that's what 458 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: he's you know, heroically expressing the same with Kevin Love, 459 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,919 Speaker 1: like I'm more than just the athlete you brought up. 460 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: Someone Biles the same thing. Naomi Osaka started talking as well, 461 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: and you know, you're gonna see more and more people 462 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: talking about this conversation. But what I want to point out, 463 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,040 Speaker 1: because I'm on the front line with us, is that 464 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 1: this is just the tip of the iceberg. And you 465 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:31,800 Speaker 1: know this because you're you're having these conversations too. This 466 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,439 Speaker 1: is just the tip of the iceberg. And what I 467 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: like to say when I have a chance is just 468 00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 1: like the movie Titanic, when it hits the iceberg, the 469 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: band plays on and it tries to convince you that hey, 470 00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: everything's okay. These are just these special people and they're 471 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: going through their thing and they'll find somewhere. No, this 472 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: this is a big deal. This is a massive, big 473 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: deal that we're going to have to deal with, and 474 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: you know it's gonna take all of us, and you 475 00:23:59,119 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 1: think it's just a matter of At this point in time, 476 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,439 Speaker 1: it's like it's I'd like to think it's starting to 477 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: become less of a uh you don't have to feel 478 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: self conscious, you know, talking about mental health. Right For 479 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: a time, it was like it was almost like a 480 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,600 Speaker 1: scarlet letter type thing. You know, Oh my god, I 481 00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: don't want to say this because that automatically means I 482 00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: get locked in an asylum. You know, Oh my god, 483 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,119 Speaker 1: my kid is a different kid, you know type thing. 484 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: It's scary, right, I think people get afraid. You fear 485 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:25,480 Speaker 1: what you don't understand, you know, So it's heroic to 486 00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,320 Speaker 1: have some of these people out there talking about it. 487 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 1: Are there any things I know you can't reveal any 488 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: intimate conversations, but are there any things that maybe you 489 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: have seen or heard that parents can hop on, Like 490 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:38,520 Speaker 1: any behaviors that maybe would be something to look out for. 491 00:24:38,880 --> 00:24:41,120 Speaker 1: We could see the physical things. What are some things 492 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: that we can look out for, think, hey, my kids 493 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: needs to shut it down because they're getting they're getting 494 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: burnt out here and it might affect other areas of 495 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 1: their life. Well, where I spend most of my time, 496 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 1: A lot of my time, you know, when people ask me, 497 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: you know, let's say you didn't interview, what do you do? 498 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,200 Speaker 1: And the short answer is to help people get out 499 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,880 Speaker 1: of their own way? Right. Um, what that really is 500 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: is a lot of times that's dealing with pressure. Okay, 501 00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: So regular life as pressure. Especially in the sports world, 502 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: you have pressure because what you're trying to do in 503 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: athletics is you're doing something that kind of comes unnatural. 504 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,160 Speaker 1: Because in survival in the past, we felt pressure and 505 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: it was a good sign to move out of the 506 00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: way because then you know, we we wouldn't get attacked 507 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: or whatever it might have been in the survival mode. 508 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 1: Now we're trying to be out there and be competitive. 509 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,480 Speaker 1: We feel the pressure and we have to move into it. 510 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: And so when people over identify, this is what I 511 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: see comment in I'd say almost everyone, And I think 512 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: it's fascinating for me, you know, because it's very rewarding 513 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: to be able to unlock this for people, is it? 514 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: I see people playing scared. What we've done in the culture, 515 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,400 Speaker 1: you know, is speed things up, all the information, everything 516 00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: is coming at you so fast. And so when people 517 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,040 Speaker 1: are to you know, social media, um, when they start 518 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: to over identify with this persona of the athletes. Right, 519 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: So I not only achieved a lot, but also I 520 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: dealt with afterwards the mental health aspect, where it was okay, 521 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 1: Set the swimmer walks into the room. I always get 522 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,600 Speaker 1: introduced to Set. The swimmer just introduced me a set. 523 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,399 Speaker 1: I want to I don't know who this person Set is, 524 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: and so I had to shed away and it took 525 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: me a long time. I had panic attacks, stabilitating panic 526 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: attacks like Kevin Love, you know, when he came out 527 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: and said that he was leaving at halftime. So I've 528 00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: been through the mental health aspect of it as well, 529 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: and so what I've learned is just that when you 530 00:26:39,920 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: have that pressure, how are you going to respond to it? 531 00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: And if we are out there on the field, so 532 00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:49,040 Speaker 1: to speak, and we get into fight flight freeze, you know, 533 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,680 Speaker 1: survival mode, that is not a sustainable energy source, right, 534 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: And that's what is happening more times than not as 535 00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,959 Speaker 1: people are having these bursts. And then when you have 536 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: that first because it's just you know, it's part of 537 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: our survival to just outrun the lions, so to speak. Well, 538 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: you're out there on the field for a long time, 539 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: so that's only going to be a short little burst, 540 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: and then we're gonna crash, right, Our energy is gonna 541 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: go way down. And so what I try to do is, 542 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,880 Speaker 1: you know, pull that apart and get people to know, like, look, 543 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: you are a human being. And once you understand that 544 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:22,919 Speaker 1: you're much bigger than this game, then we can play 545 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: this game with reckless a bandon. We can play as 546 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: though it's dow or diet because we know that that 547 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,840 Speaker 1: that my life is not predicated on the score, and 548 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: that changes everything. That's just everything that's pretty freaky cool. 549 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 1: So it's like, Hey, I'm putting on my like for 550 00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: lack of better, We're putting on our tie, we're putting 551 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: on our suit, We're going to work today, We're punching 552 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: the clock, like the expression, Hey, we're trying to punch 553 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: the clock. But then when we leave, we're we're who 554 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: we are, right, We're we're not the football player. Uh, 555 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: you know for those hours when we're at work, right, 556 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 1: whether we're at practice, whether we're training, we could we 557 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: could almost turn it on and off, right, And I 558 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: think that's a great way to people talk about which 559 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,840 Speaker 1: is a great escape, That's a great way to look 560 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: at it, Like I don't have to be this person, 561 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: but I have the freedom to kind of let it 562 00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:09,879 Speaker 1: be an outlet. That's where sports can be an outlet. Like, 563 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:11,440 Speaker 1: you know, you don't have to carry the weight of 564 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 1: the world from your everyday life into sports and sports 565 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 1: into everyday life. Right. It's being able to compartmentalize, which 566 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: is a skill to learn. Yes, yeah, definitely, And you 567 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 1: step into the role and you step out of the role, 568 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 1: you know, and that's a very healthy place to be 569 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,240 Speaker 1: because you really don't want them overlapping because when you 570 00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:35,400 Speaker 1: see people that take what they are, you know, the 571 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: beasts that they are out on the field into their 572 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: personal life. I mean, that's just tears everything apart and 573 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: they lose that balance in their life. So yeah, like 574 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: you said, I mean to put my words on it. 575 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: Sports are awesome because it's like a battlefield. You know, 576 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: we have that ingrained in us. Competition is part of survival, 577 00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 1: is part of nature. Let's embrace it, let's love it, 578 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: let's go all in. But then when the game's over, 579 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,280 Speaker 1: step out, step up, step as, step out, you know, 580 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 1: and know who you are outside of the game, and 581 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,080 Speaker 1: when you do and you know, and it's an ongoing process, 582 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: it's a lifelong process of getting to know who we are. Um. 583 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 1: But knowing that that's not a threat changes everything that 584 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: that actually will strengthen how well you play out there. 585 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: That's change. That's a game changer because you're no longer 586 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,160 Speaker 1: playing scared. You know, you know, and and and you 587 00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: have sustainable energy, right, you can keep it up for 588 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 1: the entire game, and then you can go even higher, 589 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: you know, and then you can start to work on 590 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: the mental space right and get that extra you know, 591 00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: one to three that takes it way over the top, 592 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: But we've got to start with who are you as 593 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: a person, you know, outside of the sport, and and 594 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,200 Speaker 1: really bring in some balance. Just freaking awesome, Seth. Where 595 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: can we find you? What are you doing? How do 596 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: people connect with you? Any parents out there that want 597 00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,840 Speaker 1: to get tips and all this stuff? And you know 598 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: what's the best way to go about following you? Yeah? Yeah, 599 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:01,600 Speaker 1: it's um. My website is probably the simplest. It's just 600 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 1: my full name, Seth Pepper dot com. So as I 601 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: would say to anyone, it's it's like salt and pepper, 602 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: So Seth Pepper dot com. Um. And then you know, 603 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: I have the all the handles, so Instagram and all 604 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: the other Seth Pepper. And you know, like I like 605 00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: to say that people, I'll spend fifteen minutes with anyone talking. 606 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: So just reach out to me and you know, let's connect, 607 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: Let's talk. You know, always happy to help, and I 608 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:31,280 Speaker 1: want to hear about people's journey. And I think, like you, Nick, 609 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:34,800 Speaker 1: you know our mission. You know, Like for me, it's 610 00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:39,200 Speaker 1: really simple. I help others to help themselves heal and 611 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 1: that helps me heal, right, and by heal, I mean 612 00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: get better. It's not just healing, you know, it's to 613 00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: increase their performance, to be all that they can be. 614 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 1: So when I help others, I feel like that's the 615 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,080 Speaker 1: way I can, you know, help myself. So it's a 616 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,800 Speaker 1: it's a circular thing, and and my door is always 617 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 1: open to people. So I just appreciate to connect. Yeah, 618 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,680 Speaker 1: and I'm grateful to you're on the Reform Sports Project 619 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 1: Advisory Board. You've been an intricate part of this thing 620 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 1: from the very very beginning, and uh man, it's been 621 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 1: this has been a great conversation. I just can't thank 622 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: enough for coming on again. I know you're busy with 623 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,800 Speaker 1: the girls and the family and coming on and sharing 624 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,800 Speaker 1: your wisdom. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. It's been fun. 625 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 1: And you know, this is very important to get this 626 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,239 Speaker 1: message out there. You know, we just have to have 627 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,160 Speaker 1: the conversation. We've got to keep talking about it, you know, 628 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 1: and really connecting. Because again, I'll go back to the 629 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: very beginning of our conversation. I see parents mean, well, 630 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,720 Speaker 1: they really really do. They just need the information, right, 631 00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:35,680 Speaker 1: That's a very good point. No one wakes up in 632 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,080 Speaker 1: the morning with their kids for the most part and says, oh, 633 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,680 Speaker 1: I really want to bring my kid down the wrong path, right, 634 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: I mean, so people are doing the best they can. 635 00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: So man, I can't thank enough for for sharing it 636 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: again and let's definitely, uh, we'll definitely do this again. 637 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 1: That's Seth Pepper, Elite level sports psychologist, mental performance coach 638 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:56,360 Speaker 1: and Reform Sports Project Advisory Board member. Thanks for listening 639 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,480 Speaker 1: to the Reform Sports Project podcast dom Nick Boticourt and 640 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,000 Speaker 1: our goal us to restore a healthy balance and perspective 641 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 1: in all areas of sports through education and advocacy. For updates, 642 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: please follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check 643 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: out our website by searching for the Reformed Sports Project