WEBVTT - Why Is Tajikistan Obsessed with RC Cola? ... and other Snack Secrets! 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:06.519 You're listening to part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:12.520 and iHeartRadio. Guess what will? 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:13.440 What's that mango? 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:17.040 I was reading about Spaghettio's last night doing a deep 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:21.000 dive because that is how I spend most of my wednesdays. 0:00:21.280 --> 0:00:22.239 Yeah, what else would you do? 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:27.080 Nothing? Of course? But did you know that Spaghettios, which 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.440 came out in the nineteen sixties, wasn't the first spaghetti 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:33.680 in a can? I did not. It's so bizarre to 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:37.000 be Apparently, for a few decades before, you could get 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.520 a tin of saucetuff spaghetti, but it was always super 0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:43.720 mushy and no one could get the consistency right to 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.080 last on the shelf. That is until Campbell's figured it 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:49.599 out in the nineteen sixties. And once they had this 0:00:49.800 --> 0:00:54.240 new pasta technology, they combined it with the popularity of 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.320 cheerios so that kids could eat their pasta in a spoon, 0:00:57.560 --> 0:01:00.400 which was a brand new novelty food for the world. 0:01:00.720 --> 0:01:02.520 You know, if there's one thing I feel like my 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:05.560 kids have missed out on is the fact that they've 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:10.600 really not experienced things like Spaghettios and those little raviolis 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:15.280 and all the different forms of Chef Boyardi treats. I 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:18.280 definitely had my share of them as a kid. But actually, 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.800 I'd never thought about Teios being an inspiration for Spaghettios. 0:01:21.840 --> 0:01:24.440 But I guess they both have o's in the name, 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:25.759 so now it all makes sense. 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:28.560 I know, there's a whole world of like, I don't know, 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:31.600 my kids haven't had like Hamburger, Helper or like all 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:32.160 these other. 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:34.840 Right, like yeah, yeah, what are we doing. 0:01:35.200 --> 0:01:38.679 The funny thing is about how Spaghettio's was marketed, and 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.040 the ads are pretty great. Campbell's claimed Spaghettio's would finally 0:01:42.200 --> 0:01:46.160 end the trauma of eating long stranded spaghetti, which I 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:49.440 think is just so perfect, and they declared it the 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.400 greatest invention since the napkin. WHOA, I don't know why 0:01:53.440 --> 0:01:55.960 the napkin is getting so much praise. It feels like 0:01:56.200 --> 0:01:58.040 if your hands are dirty, you just wipe it on 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:00.840 leaves or something. It wasn't like that much jumped to 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:05.280 move the clot But the most interesting thing about the 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:08.000 article to me was that even though Spaghettio's was meant 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:11.360 to be this convenience food snackstack, this newsletter puts it 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:13.600 the contents of the can get dumped into a bowl 0:02:13.880 --> 0:02:16.200 which gets shoveld into your mouth and whether or not 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:19.040 you heat it up is up to you. But because 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.080 Julia Child became popular around the same time that Spaghettio's 0:02:22.120 --> 0:02:24.720 was getting popular, Campbells tried to have it both ways, 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:27.760 and they tried to make spaghettios not just a convenience 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.320 food but also something you could make fancy. So they 0:02:31.400 --> 0:02:35.880 released all these like gourmet recipes, including a recipe for bacon, 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:40.480 onion and green bean Neapolitan spaghetti, I guess, and they said, 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:43.320 either you can use spaghetti and cheese, or you can 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:47.680 use spaghettios and you'd serve it cor at a dinner party. Anyway, 0:02:47.800 --> 0:02:51.079 I had such a good time on the Snackstack website 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:54.360 learning about everything from why rc cola is so popular 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:58.919 in Tajikistan to the romantic reason why goldfish crackers are 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:03.160 shaped like goldfish, and I thought, why not invite the author, 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:06.640 Doug Mack, onto chat about snacks today, So that's what 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:07.000 I did. 0:03:07.080 --> 0:03:09.640 That is awesome. Doug is such a fascinating guy. I 0:03:09.680 --> 0:03:11.000 cannot wait to hear this interview. 0:03:11.040 --> 0:03:12.399 Yeah, I can't wait for you to hear it too. 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:37.120 So let's dive in Hey, there are podcast listeners. It's 0:03:37.200 --> 0:03:41.320 Mongish Articular aka your pal Mango, and I have a 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:45.520 special guest in studio here today. He is a wonderful writer. 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:47.960 We've had on the show a long, long time ago. 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:50.720 His name is Doug mac. He wrote this book I 0:03:50.800 --> 0:03:54.560 Loved the not Quite States of America, and since then 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:58.720 I have been absolutely obsessed with this newsletter and website 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.040 he runs. It's called Snackstack. You can find it at 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:07.480 snackstack dot net. And he delves into and solves all 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:12.280 these great mysteries about food there, including a snacking secret 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:14.520 we talked about a few weeks ago, the story of 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.760 where gummy worms come from and how it inspired a 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:23.000 whole trend of deliciously disgusting candies. But I am so 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.440 thrilled to have him in the studio chatting with me today. Doug, 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:28.120 It's a pleasure to have you here. 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.000 Hello, Thanks for having me and really looking forward to this. 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.480 I'm always happy to talk about snacks and stack adjacent things. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:39.560 So I come from a family of inveterate snackers, like 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:42.880 we would rather snack than eat meals. For the most part, 0:04:42.920 --> 0:04:46.039 we love Bombay street foods. The Super Bowl was a 0:04:46.040 --> 0:04:48.440 big event in my house, just because it was sort 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.000 of like a snack buffet that constituted dinner. But I'm curious, 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.080 where is your fascination with snacks coming from. 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:59.680 I mean, I am also a big snacker. Sola comes 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:04.200 because he doesn't love snacks, right, But from a journalistic 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:07.200 point of view, I think that I was just interested 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.160 in learning those stories because these are things that we 0:05:09.720 --> 0:05:14.040 so often take for granted, Especially in food journalism. Stacks 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.160 are usually seen as junk food, right, or instant gratification, 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.080 perceptions that they don't have a rich history or the 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.840 soul of some elaborate meal it takes hours to cook, 0:05:23.920 --> 0:05:27.440 or has centuries of tradition and symbolism. But I think 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:30.760 that's wrong. Snacks can embody all of that too. They 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:33.880 have their own story to tell in their own terms. 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.160 Before I got into food writing, I was a travel 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:41.800 writer for about fifteen years. I've always loved looking at 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:44.680 the little details of a place and using them as 0:05:44.680 --> 0:05:48.080 a lens into personal stories or broader issues of culture 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.080 in place and politics. You know, stacks are such an 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:55.599 embodiment of everyday life. There are a lot of stories 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.480 embedded in these little things that we kind of graze 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.000 on the rect the day, but also I do love 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:06.719 to snack, and snacks are just enjoyful things, right, It's 0:06:06.720 --> 0:06:08.560 fun to eat them and it's fun to learn about them. 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.960 When we started Mental Flaws, I learned about this writer 0:06:13.160 --> 0:06:18.560 that you have referenced, Clementine Paddleford, and how she wasn't 0:06:19.080 --> 0:06:22.400 given these opportunities that most people, most men would get, 0:06:22.440 --> 0:06:27.200 and so she was given food and just used food 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.359 as this prism to see the world and tell the 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:32.839 most exciting stories. In that way, using snacks as a 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:35.880 prism to see and understand cultures is just something I 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:37.839 really really love about your work. 0:06:38.560 --> 0:06:41.480 Yeah, thank you. And she was such an influential writer 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.200 in the mid century. It's such a shame that her 0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:46.360 name has been largely forgotten because if you go back 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.960 through magazine archives from that era, she's everywhere, and she's 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:52.840 supporting from across the USA. Her writing is sharp, her 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:53.719 insights are great. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:56.440 She had a piper cup plane that she would fly 0:06:56.600 --> 0:06:59.040 all over and then like tell stories of how they 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.920 made brownies and submarines, like it's unbelievable. 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.960 She's just an amazing, amazing woman. I hope that Netflix 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:07.560 or HBO or some staping service would make a show 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:09.760 about her because her life is just incredible. 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.640 Yeah, so tell me. I used to do this when 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:15.880 I would go places. I've got two kids, and I 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.800 would just pick up different flavored potato chips or crisps. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:20.880 When I was in England, where if I was in Asia, 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.120 I'd get all these types of candies for the kids 0:07:23.200 --> 0:07:26.280 to try. You've got two kids, what sorts of stuff 0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.720 have you been adventurous with them with? And what have 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:32.720 you brought them that is either delighted or disgusted them. 0:07:33.160 --> 0:07:36.040 We were actually just in the UK ourselves over the summer, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.200 and the first thing we did when we landed at 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.440 Heathrow was we're all hungry. We went down to the shop. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:46.320 I said, look, you see all of these there's a 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:50.160 whole wall of potato chips here. Call them crisps, you know, 0:07:50.240 --> 0:07:53.560 explaining that it's the same thing. Don't be too intimidated. Here. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:57.120 We just got a few different bags and we just 0:07:57.160 --> 0:08:00.240 stood there with our luggage piled on a cart of 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.240 tissues as our napkins for greasy hands, and we just 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:05.320 ate some of these crisps. And I said, okay, now, 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:07.160 but do you like is there anything that's different. Hey, 0:08:07.280 --> 0:08:09.880 I didn't want to be too analytical about it. We're 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:14.760 on vacation. Oh god, Dad's going into a museum guide 0:08:14.840 --> 0:08:18.560 good already, But it was a way to remind them, like, 0:08:18.600 --> 0:08:20.160 we are in a different place, but there are some 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.400 similar things. Let's kind of think about that in a 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.840 way that is approachable and fun. You know, my kids 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.400 are not super adventurous eaters. I wasn't when I was 0:08:27.400 --> 0:08:29.680 a kid, and so I sort of try to empathize 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:33.240 with that. But snacks, I think, are a really good 0:08:33.280 --> 0:08:36.640 way to nudge them in a new direction because it's 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.600 just one little bite. I'm not expecting you to eat 0:08:38.640 --> 0:08:41.840 a plate of something unfamiliar, and usually it's it's either 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:44.480 from like a street flud vendor or it's from a 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.280 crakily bad Just like at home, there's a certain level 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:51.640 of familiarity to the experience, and you know, Offen their 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:56.160 falty sweet snacks are really hitting all of the basic things. 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:01.440 They seem like universal favorite labor profile, and so that 0:09:01.600 --> 0:09:04.120 was a good way to get them to try some 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:08.240 new things while we are traveling. Whenever I am traveling 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:11.040 without them, I usually do try to bring back, even 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.040 if it is just a bag of potato chips or 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.520 a candy. My wife and I were in Japan a 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:18.280 year ago, just the two of us, and we brought 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.920 back so many candies for the kids, even if it's 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.040 just a different kind of melon flavor that they have 0:09:24.160 --> 0:09:24.480 never had. 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:28.840 So tell me you've got this wonderful newsletter called snack Stack, Like, 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:30.480 how are we defining a snack? 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.079 I take a pretty expansive view. It's not really like 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.360 a physical characteristic, but it's more of a sense of informality. Right. 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:40.880 It's not a full meal, It's just a pause in 0:09:40.920 --> 0:09:44.360 your day as represented by food. It's often something that 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:46.400 you will eat quickly on the dough, like a bag 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.680 of chips from the gas station, or maybe a little 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:50.840 treat from the ice cream truck or a bakery if 0:09:50.840 --> 0:09:53.040 you're walking around, or it could be something that you're 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.360 eating absent mindedly. Why doing something else. You're just munching 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:58.880 on a bowl of nuts watching TV or popcorn and 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:03.079 movie theater classic snack experience. I think there are a 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:05.760 lot of foods there you might say are snack adjacent 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:09.400 or become a snack depending on circumstance. Like I wouldn't 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.120 say that pizza is a snack. But if you're eating 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.679 cold pizza out of the box the next day, that 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:20.000 is a snack. Right's not dignified, And that's part of 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:21.560 their charm. I love that. 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.480 So tell me, I know you've traveled to like far 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:30.680 flung places and found these incredible snacks that you probably 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:34.080 can't get in the States. What are some of the 0:10:34.280 --> 0:10:35.839 snacks that are worth traveling for? 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:41.040 So, there are a bunch of baked goods bakery items 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:43.800 in Portugal. Lots and lots of countries have a bakery culture, 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:45.800 but Portugal it seems kind of like it's off the 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:50.520 charts and things that I just haven't really seen elsewhere. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:53.199 The two places that I really want to go and 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.160 eat all the snacks are Portugal and Indonesia because they 0:10:57.200 --> 0:11:02.640 both seem to have higher than concentrations of different kinds 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:08.640 of stacks, different flavor profiles, just to really vibrant snacking cultures. 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:14.280 And they've also both been like crossroads or have there. 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:16.680 Like Guy said, in the case of Portugal, it's more 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:20.760 outgoing colonialism imperialism. But they both have a lot of 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.280 connections to a lot of other places throughout history, which 0:11:24.320 --> 0:11:27.400 means that they're pulling in other flavor profiles or ingredients. 0:11:27.880 --> 0:11:30.959 There's just a lot that's being combined in these places, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.120 and a lot of rich history. And so I would 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.600 love to go to Portugal and Indonesia and just eat 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:37.520 all these stacks that I've been reading about. 0:11:37.679 --> 0:11:40.880 My dad grew up in Goa in India, which was 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:45.320 a Portuguese territory colony, and Indonesia. You think about all 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:49.240 the languages that are there, and like how interesting it 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.840 is that you see the mix of cultures reflected in 0:11:51.880 --> 0:11:53.120 the foods of these places. 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:57.360 Yeah, and I think if you only know a few 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.280 words of the language, you don't know all the nuances, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.400 but you can get buying conversation. And I think that 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.920 snacks are sort of like the equivalent to that. They're 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:08.080 the basic couching to ten of foods. It's an easy 0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:08.640 entry point. 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:12.760 I'm curious, you're from Minnesota, what are some must try 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.120 snacks In Minnesota? 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:18.640 I will say we have an amazing state fair, like 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:21.680 I think is the best state fair on a daily 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.640 attendance basis. It's the largest state fair, even larger than 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.680 Texas in Iowa, and there's always a lot of great food, 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:29.800 a lot of new foods and one of the things 0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:32.000 you'll see a lot here at the fair, and spried 0:12:32.080 --> 0:12:35.320 cheese curds, which I always thought were just like a 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.200 common thing because I'm from Minnesota, and then I started 0:12:38.200 --> 0:12:40.400 traveling elsewhere and I would mention deep fried cheese skirts 0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:43.000 that people like, what are you talking about? And they 0:12:43.000 --> 0:12:45.439 are delicious, especially when they're hot out of their fire. 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:49.319 They're so tasty. I will also say that the University 0:12:49.320 --> 0:12:52.439 of Minnesota created a lot of the most popular apples 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:57.199 out there, including honeycrisp. There's a big apple program development 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.080 there at the state Fair. Every year there's a University 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:03.760 of Minnesota apple booth, and if they have a new 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:05.319 flavor that they're coming out with, you can go get 0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.480 a preview of the next big apple and people line up. 0:13:08.800 --> 0:13:10.520 They will stand in line for quite a while to 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:11.520 taste a new apple. 0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:13.640 I would stand in line to try a new apple. 0:13:13.720 --> 0:13:17.160 I mean absolutely. You can obviously get honey crisps and 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.400 a lot of the other varietiers developed here all over 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:21.640 the country, all over the world, but they started here. 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:23.680 So if you come to Minnesota, you certainly have to 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:25.400 have a honey crisp or two. 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.920 That's really cool. You do this great origin story of 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:31.680 pop rocks and how it led to all these fears, 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:33.120 And I'm curious if you could talk a little bit 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:33.520 about that. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:38.800 It's hard to imagine it now in the twenty first century, 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.640 but when they first came out, you know, pop rocks, 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.080 it's a really weird experience to have in your mouth 0:13:44.120 --> 0:13:45.760 the first time you do it, right, because you're like, 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:51.720 why is this thing exploding inside of me? This probably 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:55.480 shouldn't be happening, like even now when I have poprops 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:58.640 and like, something is very wrong, but also I don't 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:02.880 hate it, right, So this was nineteen seventy five that 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:07.559 a lot of parents were kind of terrified. They test 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.840 marketed them in Ontario before bringing to the US market, 0:14:11.600 --> 0:14:15.480 and they're a big hit in Windsor, Ontario. In nineteen 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:18.920 seventy five, people in Detroit were driving across the border 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.200 purchasing sixty boxes at a time. It was like this 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:25.360 forbidden thing, and so people were like, well, I want 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:28.040 to have that. But it comes to the USA finally 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:30.200 in nineteen seventy six, and a few test markets again, 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:34.400 and then nationwide in nineteen seventy seven, and even right 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:39.640 at the beginning nineteen seventy seven. There are unsubstantiated rumors 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:43.720 about pop Rocks killing kids or sending them to the hospital. 0:14:44.080 --> 0:14:47.240 They have been available for purchasing Tacoma, for example, for 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.400 one week. Within one week, they were already reports in 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:55.720 newspapers that like, we heard a rumor that somebody's cousins, friends, 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:58.520 dog sitter, you know, this sort of thing. Obviously, there's 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:00.840 plenty of urban legends now with the intern, but also 0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.520 you can fact check things if you're diligent. But back 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:07.160 then there's this new project. Nobody knows what's going on. 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:11.760 It makes you feel really weird. Some parents thought that 0:15:11.840 --> 0:15:14.720 it was a gateway for hard rocks, and these rumors 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:18.880 just fly all over you, right. 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:20.960 That it wasn't just pop rocks. They also made like 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.360 a crushed version of it called like space dust. 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.960 Yeah, exactly, there was a powdered version of power. Sorry, 0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:29.240 but there are probably were kids who were snorting that. 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.960 Let's just put that out there, because I think that's 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.600 where where all of our minds are heading anyway. But yeah, 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:36.960 and that's the thing is, right, once you have pop rocks, 0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.000 which a is a big success, what's your spin off, Well, 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:44.360 let's just crush them into a power sure. But there 0:15:44.440 --> 0:15:46.960 was this kid named Mikey who was famous from the 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:49.440 Life Cereal commercials in the early in nineteen seventies, and 0:15:49.480 --> 0:15:54.680 somehow this rumor started that Mikey had died because he 0:15:54.800 --> 0:15:58.040 drank pop rocks and soda at the same time, and 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:04.120 you know, chemical reaction, lots a bubbles, bang. He is fine. 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:08.840 Mike is fine. But there were so many rumors. 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.200 Wait, Mikey's still fine. Have we checked it? 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.560 I haven't. You know what, I haven't googled him. We 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.880 should do that. We assume he's fine. So by nineteen 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:22.120 seventy nine, there were so many rumors that the manufacturer 0:16:22.240 --> 0:16:25.880 General Foods took out full page ads in forty five 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:29.560 different newspapers around the USA with a personal message from 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:32.440 the guy who invented pop rocks, I named William Mitchell. 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:38.160 And he's basically like, look, I'm a nice guy. I 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.640 love kids. I wouldn't do anything to hurt your kids. 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:44.920 Pop rocks are fine. There's a photo of him with 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:49.840 a bunch of kids, looking very wholesome and grandfatherly. They 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:53.880 sent him on a lecture tour to schools. They sent 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:57.560 out fifty thousand pamphlets to principles. They set up a 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:01.480 toll free number people could call for more information and 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.639 assurance that you know, no kids are dying from these. 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:07.280 It makes your mouth feel weird, but not going to 0:17:07.359 --> 0:17:09.720 kill you. There were also rumors at the same time 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:13.680 that pop rocks had spider eggs, also not true. So 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.439 they're just trying to dispel a lot of nonsense. It 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:20.560 didn't really help, is the thing, And so in nineteen 0:17:20.640 --> 0:17:24.480 eighty General Foods pulled pop Rocks from the market and 0:17:24.520 --> 0:17:28.160 it wasn't until nineteen eighty seven that a different company 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.720 bought the rights to pop Rocks and started producing them again. 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:33.280 And now they're still around. But there was a gap 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.639 there for about seven years because people were so terrified 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:41.040 that this is going to kill our kids. It was 0:17:41.080 --> 0:17:44.199 this actual moral panic that is so crazy. 0:17:44.800 --> 0:17:48.399 Don't go anywhere. We've got more snacks secrets right after 0:17:48.440 --> 0:18:06.360 this break, Welcome back to Part time Genius. But we're 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:11.920 talking all things snacks with Doug Mack. So another thing 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:15.679 I am always fascinated by is what takes off in 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.800 other countries. When cable first came to India, one of 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:25.359 the first sitcoms that was aired there in English was 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:28.600 Small Wonder. I don't know if you remember, it was 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:32.800 like this eighties sitcom about this robot girl and it's 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.760 not a very good show, and yet that this was 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.920 the first sort of American export that was like sent 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:44.240 and somehow was what would persist in India for a bit. 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:47.159 It made me think of your piece on RC Cola, like, 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.480 how do some of these American things end up in 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:50.600 places around the world. 0:18:51.000 --> 0:18:54.200 God Arcy Cola is one of those brands that I'm 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:57.359 sort of aware that it exists in the USA, but 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:58.800 I haven't seen it in the store. 0:18:58.840 --> 0:18:59.000 I do. 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:00.479 I just remember seeing it in store. 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.320 It's like Shasta or like these old brands that did 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.920 exist at one point but you don't see anywhere. 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.439 Yeah, exactly, like it's been around for a long time, 0:19:09.560 --> 0:19:14.360 but it's an icon that is also sort of forgotten. 0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:17.560 And so yeah. One thing that I really love to do, 0:19:18.000 --> 0:19:20.760 both for when I'm writing stories for Stacksack but also 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:23.480 just when I'm trying to kill time is I love 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:26.080 just dropping into a random city on Google street View 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.720 and just looking around. Right, It's the whole travel writer thing. 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:31.720 Even if I can't teleport there in person, I can 0:19:31.960 --> 0:19:34.240 kind of look around this treescape like try to get 0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:36.159 a sense of the energy, what's being sold here, what 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.239 does the architecture looks like? All these different things. So 0:19:39.359 --> 0:19:43.800 one day I was poking around Tajikistan, as one does, 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.760 and I saw a corner shop with a big sign 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:50.679 that said arc Cola over the door, and not just 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.200 like a piece of paper, but like an actual bolted 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:58.359 to the building, new looking sign like this is serious business, 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.760 like we sell ourc Cola. We really want everyone to 0:20:00.760 --> 0:20:03.240 know that. I was like, I wonder, is this just 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.040 a one off? Because sometimes it is who knows? And 0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:08.080 I quickly found out that not only is it a 0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.840 thing in Tajikistan, but it's bigger than coke and pepsi. 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:13.879 It's the thing. It is the thing. 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:18.719 It is the American cola, if not the American brand 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:23.160 in Tajikistan. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense. 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:25.680 But as soon as I say that doesn't make any sense, 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:27.840 that my brain goes, well, it probably does, but why 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:29.679 does it make sense? That's a better way of saying that. 0:20:29.720 --> 0:20:34.479 What's let's be curious about this, you know, be curious, 0:20:34.560 --> 0:20:37.600 not judgmental. I love that line from ted Lasso, and 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:42.080 I think about it a lot. And so I started 0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:44.480 going down this rabbit hole, and pretty soon I was 0:20:44.600 --> 0:20:48.720 using Google Translate to look at the bottler's website in Tajikistan, 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:52.320 and I ended up on like international development white papers 0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.880 from the nineteen nineties that were scanned in the far 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:58.359 reaches of the Internet and really rainy PDFs and things 0:20:58.400 --> 0:21:02.080 like that. And basically what happened is in the early 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:06.640 nineteen nineties, the Soviet Union that's falling apart to Jikistan 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:11.320 becomes independent in nineteen ninety one, and there is this 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:14.320 bottling company that sets up shops. It's a new new 0:21:14.320 --> 0:21:17.320 country and new economy, like, let's do something here, right, 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:21.280 so bobbling company called obi Zulo, which I'm sure I'm 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:26.560 not pronouncing right, but they're bottling mostly water and comes 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:28.960 from this mountain stream and it's supposed to be a 0:21:29.000 --> 0:21:31.879 little bit sweet. It's very good water. They're advertising all 0:21:31.880 --> 0:21:34.800 that stuff. At the same time as the Soviet Union 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:39.520 is collapsing, Americana has like extra potency as a brand 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:44.200 like McDonald's opens in Moscow, Marlborough starts putting up billboards 0:21:44.200 --> 0:21:47.639 in Poland. Levi's jeans are becoming a fashion statement but 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.880 also a political expression. And back then in the early nineties, 0:21:52.520 --> 0:21:54.119 ARCI Cola is a bit more of a thing in 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.200 the USA, not as much as CO Cola, but it 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:02.000 was certainly more so than now. So bottling company into Jikistan, 0:22:02.280 --> 0:22:05.240 strikes a deal with somebody. My best guess is whoever 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.600 the rc Cola rights guy was, just happened to shake 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:10.919 hands with the guy who had the bodily rights. And 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:16.119 then Tajikistan falls into a civil war, and much of 0:22:16.160 --> 0:22:18.560