1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 1: You're listening to part Time Genius, the production of Kaleidoscope 2 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio. Guess what will? 3 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: What's that mango? 4 00:00:13,720 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 1: I was reading about Spaghettio's last night doing a deep 5 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: dive because that is how I spend most of my wednesdays. 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:22,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, what else would you do? 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: Nothing? Of course? But did you know that Spaghettios, which 8 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: came out in the nineteen sixties, wasn't the first spaghetti 9 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: in a can? I did not. It's so bizarre to 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: be Apparently, for a few decades before, you could get 11 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,520 Speaker 1: a tin of saucetuff spaghetti, but it was always super 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: mushy and no one could get the consistency right to 13 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: last on the shelf. That is until Campbell's figured it 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 1: out in the nineteen sixties. And once they had this 15 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: new pasta technology, they combined it with the popularity of 16 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: cheerios so that kids could eat their pasta in a spoon, 17 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: which was a brand new novelty food for the world. 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 2: You know, if there's one thing I feel like my 19 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: kids have missed out on is the fact that they've 20 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:10,600 Speaker 2: really not experienced things like Spaghettios and those little raviolis 21 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:15,280 Speaker 2: and all the different forms of Chef Boyardi treats. I 22 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 2: definitely had my share of them as a kid. But actually, 23 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 2: I'd never thought about Teios being an inspiration for Spaghettios. 24 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: But I guess they both have o's in the name, 25 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 2: so now it all makes sense. 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: I know, there's a whole world of like, I don't know, 27 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 1: my kids haven't had like Hamburger, Helper or like all 28 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: these other. 29 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 3: Right, like yeah, yeah, what are we doing. 30 00:01:35,200 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 1: The funny thing is about how Spaghettio's was marketed, and 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,040 Speaker 1: the ads are pretty great. Campbell's claimed Spaghettio's would finally 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: end the trauma of eating long stranded spaghetti, which I 33 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: think is just so perfect, and they declared it the 34 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,400 Speaker 1: greatest invention since the napkin. WHOA, I don't know why 35 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: the napkin is getting so much praise. It feels like 36 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: if your hands are dirty, you just wipe it on 37 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 1: leaves or something. It wasn't like that much jumped to 38 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: move the clot But the most interesting thing about the 39 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 1: article to me was that even though Spaghettio's was meant 40 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: to be this convenience food snackstack, this newsletter puts it 41 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 1: the contents of the can get dumped into a bowl 42 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: which gets shoveld into your mouth and whether or not 43 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 1: you heat it up is up to you. But because 44 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 1: Julia Child became popular around the same time that Spaghettio's 45 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: was getting popular, Campbells tried to have it both ways, 46 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 1: and they tried to make spaghettios not just a convenience 47 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,320 Speaker 1: food but also something you could make fancy. So they 48 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 1: released all these like gourmet recipes, including a recipe for bacon, 49 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:40,480 Speaker 1: onion and green bean Neapolitan spaghetti, I guess, and they said, 50 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: either you can use spaghetti and cheese, or you can 51 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: use spaghettios and you'd serve it cor at a dinner party. Anyway, 52 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:51,079 Speaker 1: I had such a good time on the Snackstack website 53 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: learning about everything from why rc cola is so popular 54 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: in Tajikistan to the romantic reason why goldfish crackers are 55 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: shaped like goldfish, and I thought, why not invite the author, 56 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: Doug Mack, onto chat about snacks today, So that's what 57 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 1: I did. 58 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: That is awesome. Doug is such a fascinating guy. I 59 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: cannot wait to hear this interview. 60 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't wait for you to hear it too. 61 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: So let's dive in Hey, there are podcast listeners. It's 62 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 1: Mongish Articular aka your pal Mango, and I have a 63 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 1: special guest in studio here today. He is a wonderful writer. 64 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 1: We've had on the show a long, long time ago. 65 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: His name is Doug mac. He wrote this book I 66 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: Loved the not Quite States of America, and since then 67 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: I have been absolutely obsessed with this newsletter and website 68 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: he runs. It's called Snackstack. You can find it at 69 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:07,480 Speaker 1: snackstack dot net. And he delves into and solves all 70 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:12,280 Speaker 1: these great mysteries about food there, including a snacking secret 71 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: we talked about a few weeks ago, the story of 72 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: where gummy worms come from and how it inspired a 73 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 1: whole trend of deliciously disgusting candies. But I am so 74 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: thrilled to have him in the studio chatting with me today. Doug, 75 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: It's a pleasure to have you here. 76 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 3: Hello, Thanks for having me and really looking forward to this. 77 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 3: I'm always happy to talk about snacks and stack adjacent things. 78 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: So I come from a family of inveterate snackers, like 79 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: we would rather snack than eat meals. For the most part, 80 00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 1: we love Bombay street foods. The Super Bowl was a 81 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: big event in my house, just because it was sort 82 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: of like a snack buffet that constituted dinner. But I'm curious, 83 00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: where is your fascination with snacks coming from. 84 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 3: I mean, I am also a big snacker. Sola comes 85 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 3: because he doesn't love snacks, right, But from a journalistic 86 00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: point of view, I think that I was just interested 87 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 3: in learning those stories because these are things that we 88 00:05:09,720 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 3: so often take for granted, Especially in food journalism. Stacks 89 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 3: are usually seen as junk food, right, or instant gratification, 90 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 3: perceptions that they don't have a rich history or the 91 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:23,840 Speaker 3: soul of some elaborate meal it takes hours to cook, 92 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 3: or has centuries of tradition and symbolism. But I think 93 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: that's wrong. Snacks can embody all of that too. They 94 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: have their own story to tell in their own terms. 95 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 3: Before I got into food writing, I was a travel 96 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 3: writer for about fifteen years. I've always loved looking at 97 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 3: the little details of a place and using them as 98 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 3: a lens into personal stories or broader issues of culture 99 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:51,080 Speaker 3: in place and politics. You know, stacks are such an 100 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 3: embodiment of everyday life. There are a lot of stories 101 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 3: embedded in these little things that we kind of graze 102 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 3: on the rect the day, but also I do love 103 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: to snack, and snacks are just enjoyful things, right, It's 104 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:08,560 Speaker 3: fun to eat them and it's fun to learn about them. 105 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: When we started Mental Flaws, I learned about this writer 106 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: that you have referenced, Clementine Paddleford, and how she wasn't 107 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: given these opportunities that most people, most men would get, 108 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: and so she was given food and just used food 109 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:29,359 Speaker 1: as this prism to see the world and tell the 110 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: most exciting stories. In that way, using snacks as a 111 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: prism to see and understand cultures is just something I 112 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: really really love about your work. 113 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you. And she was such an influential writer 114 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: in the mid century. It's such a shame that her 115 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 3: name has been largely forgotten because if you go back 116 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: through magazine archives from that era, she's everywhere, and she's 117 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 3: supporting from across the USA. Her writing is sharp, her 118 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 3: insights are great. 119 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:56,440 Speaker 1: She had a piper cup plane that she would fly 120 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 1: all over and then like tell stories of how they 121 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: made brownies and submarines, like it's unbelievable. 122 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: She's just an amazing, amazing woman. I hope that Netflix 123 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,560 Speaker 3: or HBO or some staping service would make a show 124 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:09,760 Speaker 3: about her because her life is just incredible. 125 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, so tell me. I used to do this when 126 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: I would go places. I've got two kids, and I 127 00:07:15,880 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 1: would just pick up different flavored potato chips or crisps. 128 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: When I was in England, where if I was in Asia, 129 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 1: I'd get all these types of candies for the kids 130 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: to try. You've got two kids, what sorts of stuff 131 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,720 Speaker 1: have you been adventurous with them with? And what have 132 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 1: you brought them that is either delighted or disgusted them. 133 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 3: We were actually just in the UK ourselves over the summer, 134 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 3: and the first thing we did when we landed at 135 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 3: Heathrow was we're all hungry. We went down to the shop. 136 00:07:43,920 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 3: I said, look, you see all of these there's a 137 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: whole wall of potato chips here. Call them crisps, you know, 138 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 3: explaining that it's the same thing. Don't be too intimidated. Here. 139 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 3: We just got a few different bags and we just 140 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 3: stood there with our luggage piled on a cart of 141 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 3: tissues as our napkins for greasy hands, and we just 142 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: ate some of these crisps. And I said, okay, now, 143 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: but do you like is there anything that's different. Hey, 144 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 3: I didn't want to be too analytical about it. We're 145 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 3: on vacation. Oh god, Dad's going into a museum guide 146 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 3: good already, But it was a way to remind them, like, 147 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 3: we are in a different place, but there are some 148 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 3: similar things. Let's kind of think about that in a 149 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 3: way that is approachable and fun. You know, my kids 150 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: are not super adventurous eaters. I wasn't when I was 151 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 3: a kid, and so I sort of try to empathize 152 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:33,240 Speaker 3: with that. But snacks, I think, are a really good 153 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 3: way to nudge them in a new direction because it's 154 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 3: just one little bite. I'm not expecting you to eat 155 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,840 Speaker 3: a plate of something unfamiliar, and usually it's it's either 156 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 3: from like a street flud vendor or it's from a 157 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 3: crakily bad Just like at home, there's a certain level 158 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: of familiarity to the experience, and you know, Offen their 159 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 3: falty sweet snacks are really hitting all of the basic things. 160 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,440 Speaker 3: They seem like universal favorite labor profile, and so that 161 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 3: was a good way to get them to try some 162 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: new things while we are traveling. Whenever I am traveling 163 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 3: without them, I usually do try to bring back, even 164 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 3: if it is just a bag of potato chips or 165 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: a candy. My wife and I were in Japan a 166 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 3: year ago, just the two of us, and we brought 167 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 3: back so many candies for the kids, even if it's 168 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 3: just a different kind of melon flavor that they have 169 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:24,480 Speaker 3: never had. 170 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: So tell me you've got this wonderful newsletter called snack Stack, Like, 171 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: how are we defining a snack? 172 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:33,079 Speaker 3: I take a pretty expansive view. It's not really like 173 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 3: a physical characteristic, but it's more of a sense of informality. Right. 174 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 3: It's not a full meal, It's just a pause in 175 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 3: your day as represented by food. It's often something that 176 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: you will eat quickly on the dough, like a bag 177 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 3: of chips from the gas station, or maybe a little 178 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 3: treat from the ice cream truck or a bakery if 179 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 3: you're walking around, or it could be something that you're 180 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 3: eating absent mindedly. Why doing something else. You're just munching 181 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: on a bowl of nuts watching TV or popcorn and 182 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 3: movie theater classic snack experience. I think there are a 183 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 3: lot of foods there you might say are snack adjacent 184 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 3: or become a snack depending on circumstance. Like I wouldn't 185 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 3: say that pizza is a snack. But if you're eating 186 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 3: cold pizza out of the box the next day, that 187 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: is a snack. Right's not dignified, And that's part of 188 00:10:20,040 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 3: their charm. I love that. 189 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 1: So tell me, I know you've traveled to like far 190 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:30,680 Speaker 1: flung places and found these incredible snacks that you probably 191 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: can't get in the States. What are some of the 192 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:35,839 Speaker 1: snacks that are worth traveling for? 193 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: So, there are a bunch of baked goods bakery items 194 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 3: in Portugal. Lots and lots of countries have a bakery culture, 195 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: but Portugal it seems kind of like it's off the 196 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 3: charts and things that I just haven't really seen elsewhere. 197 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 3: The two places that I really want to go and 198 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:57,160 Speaker 3: eat all the snacks are Portugal and Indonesia because they 199 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 3: both seem to have higher than concentrations of different kinds 200 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 3: of stacks, different flavor profiles, just to really vibrant snacking cultures. 201 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: And they've also both been like crossroads or have there. 202 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:16,680 Speaker 3: Like Guy said, in the case of Portugal, it's more 203 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 3: outgoing colonialism imperialism. But they both have a lot of 204 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 3: connections to a lot of other places throughout history, which 205 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 3: means that they're pulling in other flavor profiles or ingredients. 206 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 3: There's just a lot that's being combined in these places, 207 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,120 Speaker 3: and a lot of rich history. And so I would 208 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 3: love to go to Portugal and Indonesia and just eat 209 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 3: all these stacks that I've been reading about. 210 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: My dad grew up in Goa in India, which was 211 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: a Portuguese territory colony, and Indonesia. You think about all 212 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 1: the languages that are there, and like how interesting it 213 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 1: is that you see the mix of cultures reflected in 214 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 1: the foods of these places. 215 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think if you only know a few 216 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 3: words of the language, you don't know all the nuances, 217 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 3: but you can get buying conversation. And I think that 218 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 3: snacks are sort of like the equivalent to that. They're 219 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 3: the basic couching to ten of foods. It's an easy 220 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 3: entry point. 221 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: I'm curious, you're from Minnesota, what are some must try 222 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: snacks In Minnesota? 223 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 3: I will say we have an amazing state fair, like 224 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 3: I think is the best state fair on a daily 225 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,640 Speaker 3: attendance basis. It's the largest state fair, even larger than 226 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,680 Speaker 3: Texas in Iowa, and there's always a lot of great food, 227 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 3: a lot of new foods and one of the things 228 00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 3: you'll see a lot here at the fair, and spried 229 00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,320 Speaker 3: cheese curds, which I always thought were just like a 230 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 3: common thing because I'm from Minnesota, and then I started 231 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 3: traveling elsewhere and I would mention deep fried cheese skirts 232 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 3: that people like, what are you talking about? And they 233 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,439 Speaker 3: are delicious, especially when they're hot out of their fire. 234 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 3: They're so tasty. I will also say that the University 235 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 3: of Minnesota created a lot of the most popular apples 236 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,199 Speaker 3: out there, including honeycrisp. There's a big apple program development 237 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 3: there at the state Fair. Every year there's a University 238 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 3: of Minnesota apple booth, and if they have a new 239 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 3: flavor that they're coming out with, you can go get 240 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 3: a preview of the next big apple and people line up. 241 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 3: They will stand in line for quite a while to 242 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 3: taste a new apple. 243 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: I would stand in line to try a new apple. 244 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 3: I mean absolutely. You can obviously get honey crisps and 245 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 3: a lot of the other varietiers developed here all over 246 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 3: the country, all over the world, but they started here. 247 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 3: So if you come to Minnesota, you certainly have to 248 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,400 Speaker 3: have a honey crisp or two. 249 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: That's really cool. You do this great origin story of 250 00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: pop rocks and how it led to all these fears, 251 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 1: And I'm curious if you could talk a little bit 252 00:13:33,120 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: about that. 253 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,800 Speaker 3: It's hard to imagine it now in the twenty first century, 254 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 3: but when they first came out, you know, pop rocks, 255 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 3: it's a really weird experience to have in your mouth 256 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,760 Speaker 3: the first time you do it, right, because you're like, 257 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:51,720 Speaker 3: why is this thing exploding inside of me? This probably 258 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 3: shouldn't be happening, like even now when I have poprops 259 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:58,640 Speaker 3: and like, something is very wrong, but also I don't 260 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 3: hate it, right, So this was nineteen seventy five that 261 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 3: a lot of parents were kind of terrified. They test 262 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,840 Speaker 3: marketed them in Ontario before bringing to the US market, 263 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 3: and they're a big hit in Windsor, Ontario. In nineteen 264 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 3: seventy five, people in Detroit were driving across the border 265 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 3: purchasing sixty boxes at a time. It was like this 266 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 3: forbidden thing, and so people were like, well, I want 267 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 3: to have that. But it comes to the USA finally 268 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy six, and a few test markets again, 269 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 3: and then nationwide in nineteen seventy seven, and even right 270 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: at the beginning nineteen seventy seven. There are unsubstantiated rumors 271 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 3: about pop Rocks killing kids or sending them to the hospital. 272 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: They have been available for purchasing Tacoma, for example, for 273 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 3: one week. Within one week, they were already reports in 274 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 3: newspapers that like, we heard a rumor that somebody's cousins, friends, 275 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 3: dog sitter, you know, this sort of thing. Obviously, there's 276 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,840 Speaker 3: plenty of urban legends now with the intern, but also 277 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: you can fact check things if you're diligent. But back 278 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:07,160 Speaker 3: then there's this new project. Nobody knows what's going on. 279 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 3: It makes you feel really weird. Some parents thought that 280 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 3: it was a gateway for hard rocks, and these rumors 281 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 3: just fly all over you, right. 282 00:15:18,840 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: That it wasn't just pop rocks. They also made like 283 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,360 Speaker 1: a crushed version of it called like space dust. 284 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, there was a powdered version of power. Sorry, 285 00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: but there are probably were kids who were snorting that. 286 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 3: Let's just put that out there, because I think that's 287 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 3: where where all of our minds are heading anyway. But yeah, 288 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 3: and that's the thing is, right, once you have pop rocks, 289 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 3: which a is a big success, what's your spin off, Well, 290 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 3: let's just crush them into a power sure. But there 291 00:15:44,440 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 3: was this kid named Mikey who was famous from the 292 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 3: Life Cereal commercials in the early in nineteen seventies, and 293 00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:54,680 Speaker 3: somehow this rumor started that Mikey had died because he 294 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,040 Speaker 3: drank pop rocks and soda at the same time, and 295 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:04,120 Speaker 3: you know, chemical reaction, lots a bubbles, bang. He is fine. 296 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 3: Mike is fine. But there were so many rumors. 297 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: Wait, Mikey's still fine. Have we checked it? 298 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,560 Speaker 3: I haven't. You know what, I haven't googled him. We 299 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,880 Speaker 3: should do that. We assume he's fine. So by nineteen 300 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 3: seventy nine, there were so many rumors that the manufacturer 301 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 3: General Foods took out full page ads in forty five 302 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,560 Speaker 3: different newspapers around the USA with a personal message from 303 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 3: the guy who invented pop rocks, I named William Mitchell. 304 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 3: And he's basically like, look, I'm a nice guy. I 305 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 3: love kids. I wouldn't do anything to hurt your kids. 306 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 3: Pop rocks are fine. There's a photo of him with 307 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 3: a bunch of kids, looking very wholesome and grandfatherly. They 308 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 3: sent him on a lecture tour to schools. They sent 309 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 3: out fifty thousand pamphlets to principles. They set up a 310 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 3: toll free number people could call for more information and 311 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,639 Speaker 3: assurance that you know, no kids are dying from these. 312 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 3: It makes your mouth feel weird, but not going to 313 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,720 Speaker 3: kill you. There were also rumors at the same time 314 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 3: that pop rocks had spider eggs, also not true. So 315 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,439 Speaker 3: they're just trying to dispel a lot of nonsense. It 316 00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 3: didn't really help, is the thing, And so in nineteen 317 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 3: eighty General Foods pulled pop Rocks from the market and 318 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 3: it wasn't until nineteen eighty seven that a different company 319 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,720 Speaker 3: bought the rights to pop Rocks and started producing them again. 320 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 3: And now they're still around. But there was a gap 321 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,639 Speaker 3: there for about seven years because people were so terrified 322 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 3: that this is going to kill our kids. It was 323 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 3: this actual moral panic that is so crazy. 324 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 1: Don't go anywhere. We've got more snacks secrets right after 325 00:17:48,440 --> 00:18:06,360 Speaker 1: this break, Welcome back to Part time Genius. But we're 326 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: talking all things snacks with Doug Mack. So another thing 327 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:15,679 Speaker 1: I am always fascinated by is what takes off in 328 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: other countries. When cable first came to India, one of 329 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: the first sitcoms that was aired there in English was 330 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 1: Small Wonder. I don't know if you remember, it was 331 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: like this eighties sitcom about this robot girl and it's 332 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: not a very good show, and yet that this was 333 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,920 Speaker 1: the first sort of American export that was like sent 334 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: and somehow was what would persist in India for a bit. 335 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 1: It made me think of your piece on RC Cola, like, 336 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: how do some of these American things end up in 337 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:50,600 Speaker 1: places around the world. 338 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:54,200 Speaker 3: God Arcy Cola is one of those brands that I'm 339 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 3: sort of aware that it exists in the USA, but 340 00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:58,800 Speaker 3: I haven't seen it in the store. 341 00:18:58,840 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: I do. 342 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:00,479 Speaker 3: I just remember seeing it in store. 343 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: It's like Shasta or like these old brands that did 344 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,920 Speaker 1: exist at one point but you don't see anywhere. 345 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, like it's been around for a long time, 346 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:14,360 Speaker 3: but it's an icon that is also sort of forgotten. 347 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,560 Speaker 3: And so yeah. One thing that I really love to do, 348 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: both for when I'm writing stories for Stacksack but also 349 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,480 Speaker 3: just when I'm trying to kill time is I love 350 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 3: just dropping into a random city on Google street View 351 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 3: and just looking around. Right, It's the whole travel writer thing. 352 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 3: Even if I can't teleport there in person, I can 353 00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 3: kind of look around this treescape like try to get 354 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,159 Speaker 3: a sense of the energy, what's being sold here, what 355 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,239 Speaker 3: does the architecture looks like? All these different things. So 356 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 3: one day I was poking around Tajikistan, as one does, 357 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 3: and I saw a corner shop with a big sign 358 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 3: that said arc Cola over the door, and not just 359 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 3: like a piece of paper, but like an actual bolted 360 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 3: to the building, new looking sign like this is serious business, 361 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,760 Speaker 3: like we sell ourc Cola. We really want everyone to 362 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 3: know that. I was like, I wonder, is this just 363 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 3: a one off? Because sometimes it is who knows? And 364 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 3: I quickly found out that not only is it a 365 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 3: thing in Tajikistan, but it's bigger than coke and pepsi. 366 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:13,879 Speaker 1: It's the thing. It is the thing. 367 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:18,719 Speaker 3: It is the American cola, if not the American brand 368 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,160 Speaker 3: in Tajikistan. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense. 369 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 3: But as soon as I say that doesn't make any sense, 370 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 3: that my brain goes, well, it probably does, but why 371 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 3: does it make sense? That's a better way of saying that. 372 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,479 Speaker 3: What's let's be curious about this, you know, be curious, 373 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 3: not judgmental. I love that line from ted Lasso, and 374 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 3: I think about it a lot. And so I started 375 00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 3: going down this rabbit hole, and pretty soon I was 376 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 3: using Google Translate to look at the bottler's website in Tajikistan, 377 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 3: and I ended up on like international development white papers 378 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,880 Speaker 3: from the nineteen nineties that were scanned in the far 379 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 3: reaches of the Internet and really rainy PDFs and things 380 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,080 Speaker 3: like that. And basically what happened is in the early 381 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:06,640 Speaker 3: nineteen nineties, the Soviet Union that's falling apart to Jikistan 382 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 3: becomes independent in nineteen ninety one, and there is this 383 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 3: bottling company that sets up shops. It's a new new 384 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 3: country and new economy, like, let's do something here, right, 385 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 3: so bobbling company called obi Zulo, which I'm sure I'm 386 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 3: not pronouncing right, but they're bottling mostly water and comes 387 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 3: from this mountain stream and it's supposed to be a 388 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,879 Speaker 3: little bit sweet. It's very good water. They're advertising all 389 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 3: that stuff. At the same time as the Soviet Union 390 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: is collapsing, Americana has like extra potency as a brand 391 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 3: like McDonald's opens in Moscow, Marlborough starts putting up billboards 392 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 3: in Poland. Levi's jeans are becoming a fashion statement but 393 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,880 Speaker 3: also a political expression. And back then in the early nineties, 394 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,119 Speaker 3: ARCI Cola is a bit more of a thing in 395 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 3: the USA, not as much as CO Cola, but it 396 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 3: was certainly more so than now. So bottling company into Jikistan, 397 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 3: strikes a deal with somebody. My best guess is whoever 398 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 3: the rc Cola rights guy was, just happened to shake 399 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,919 Speaker 3: hands with the guy who had the bodily rights. And 400 00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 3: then Tajikistan falls into a civil war, and much of 401 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,560 Speaker 3: the rest of the nineteen nineties nothing is really happening 402 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 3: with the bottling company. Then right around two thousand, they 403 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,120 Speaker 3: kind of get back on their feet as a nation 404 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 3: and as an economy and as a bottling company. They 405 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,119 Speaker 3: already have this deal struck with rc Cola from a 406 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 3: decade earlier, and so they run with it and it 407 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:40,560 Speaker 3: becomes really interestingly it's both a symbol of Americana. If 408 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 3: you look at the ads, a lot of them have 409 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,439 Speaker 3: pictures of the wild West. But if you go to 410 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 3: like their Facebook page and their socials, you can also 411 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,560 Speaker 3: find a lot of images of like specific national holidays. 412 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 3: Like there'll be a picture of a tank, and then 413 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,879 Speaker 3: the graphic is like arc Cola is celebrating whatever the 414 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 3: national holiday is. And so because it's also a symbol 415 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 3: of economic growth, and we know our countries but simultaneously, 416 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 3: like the brand is Americana, but the company that is 417 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 3: bottling it here is a symbol of our national might. 418 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,400 Speaker 3: Coke just recently few years ago started making inroads there. 419 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 3: But last I heard, RC Cola is still the main 420 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 3: cola in Tajikistan because they got their first due to 421 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 3: the political circumstances of the early nineteen nineties. 422 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 1: You said this wonderful line from Ted Lasso about being 423 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: curious but not judgmental, and I think you and I 424 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:37,199 Speaker 1: had somewhat similar experiences with Carab growing up, where it 425 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: was talked about as this like chocolate replacement. I'm curious 426 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: about how your views on carib evolved and what the 427 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:44,840 Speaker 1: learning's were. 428 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. So for anyone who doesn't know about Arab, who 429 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 3: hasn't been blessed with its upbringing, Arab is a tree 430 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,240 Speaker 3: that grows primarily around the Mediterranean. It has these large 431 00:23:57,280 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 3: pots which have seeds and pulp inside. You can process 432 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,919 Speaker 3: that season pulp and make it edible. It's kind of 433 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 3: brownish sweetish, And I would guess that most Americans who 434 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 3: know Carab are most familiar with it as a kind 435 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 3: of fake chocolate, because that's how it was promoted in 436 00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 3: health food stores and magazines and sort of Hippi adjacent 437 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 3: American culture, especially in the nineteen eighties. I grew up 438 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 3: going to a very crunchy, cooperatively run preschool in Minneapolis, 439 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 3: and it was like a staple treat for us, you know. 440 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 3: I was like rice cakes and carib loves. The school 441 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 3: hated Carab because it was billed as this tastes like chocolate, right, 442 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,680 Speaker 3: because again, it's kind of sweet and kind of brown. 443 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 3: I was reading an article in The New Yorker a 444 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 3: few years ago by a writer who had an experienced 445 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 3: very similar to mine. He said that Carab traumatized the 446 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,439 Speaker 3: generation and how it was like, yeah, thank you for 447 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,639 Speaker 3: saying that I was traumatized. I should go to therapy 448 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:00,320 Speaker 3: about this. But then I was doing my re search 449 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 3: as a duke, and I was like, wait, no, this 450 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 3: is all backward. Obviously it isn't chocolate. We can't expect 451 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 3: it to be chocolate. It makes no sense for me 452 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:12,160 Speaker 3: to hate care because it doesn't taste like chocolate. It's 453 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 3: like going on a carousel and then being mad because 454 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,320 Speaker 3: somebody told you it would be like going on a 455 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 3: roller coaster. It's not the carousel's fault that it's not 456 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 3: a roller coaster. So in the Middle East and the Mediterranean, 457 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 3: where cab originates, it's mostly just like a sweet flavor 458 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 3: to enjoy on its own terms, as we do with 459 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,120 Speaker 3: most flavors, like this is the thing that you should 460 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,880 Speaker 3: enjoy because this is what it is, not because we're 461 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 3: trying to trick you and makes you think that it's 462 00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 3: the thing you actually want. And that reminded me that, 463 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 3: of course my experience isn't universal. It didn't traumatize a generation. 464 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 3: It traumatized a very specific generation of people who have 465 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 3: this experience in the nineteen eighties. But the people who 466 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 3: are most familiar with carab outside the USA, like, they're 467 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 3: just having it because it's delicious on its own. And 468 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 3: so I think that that's a really important thing to remember, 469 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,600 Speaker 3: is that, you know, just get out of the way, 470 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 3: let careb or anything else, just sign on its own 471 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 3: terms without trying to fool people. Because did you tell 472 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 3: somebody that something tastes like chocolate, It better be chocolate, right, 473 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 3: because otherwise, yeah, it is inherently going to taste different 474 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 3: because it is not bad thing. 475 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:25,480 Speaker 1: It's funny. I studied abroad in Nepal and Tibet, and 476 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:30,679 Speaker 1: you would often receive butter tea, you know, as a 477 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: beverage when you're welcomed into someone's house or like a 478 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: monastery or that type of thing, and it was so 479 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: hard to drink as tea. But then someone said, oh, 480 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,679 Speaker 1: if you think about it as a soup, it's a 481 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,240 Speaker 1: very different experience. And it's true that like reframing of something, 482 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:51,560 Speaker 1: it's not told to you. It's a chocolate equivalent, like 483 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,280 Speaker 1: it's a much better experience or a much different experience. 484 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. You should enjoy in the way that's meant 485 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 3: to be enjoyed. 486 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: You know. One of the things I loved reading about 487 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 1: on your site was that pizza roles actually come from 488 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: a guy who had started making egg rolls and realized 489 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,520 Speaker 1: that they could put pizza fillings in the egg rolls. 490 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,679 Speaker 1: And that origin blew me away. What's another snack origin 491 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: story that I can use to impress people at a party? 492 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 3: Yes, I am so much fun at parties because I 493 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 3: have endless snacking anecdotes. 494 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,879 Speaker 1: Do you stand right by the snack exactly before you 495 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,959 Speaker 1: have the charcouterie. 496 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 3: Let me tell you the history. No, I do try 497 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 3: to avoid that, although there is often a monologue in 498 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,240 Speaker 3: my mind, and I can try to keep internal, huh, 499 00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 3: because I do often think like, oh, I know about that. 500 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 3: I've got two that I think are especially good and 501 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 3: will impress people at parties for sure. So one is 502 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 3: gold dish crackers, you know, iconic Pepperidge Farm product, now 503 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 3: available in at least ten thousand different flavors and sizes 504 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,840 Speaker 3: and everything. I think we have three different bags right 505 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 3: here in my house right now. They actually originated in Switzerland. 506 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 3: You can still get them there, the original goldfish crackers, 507 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 3: And the reason they have that shape of the gold 508 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,760 Speaker 3: dish is that the creator wanted to honor his wife. 509 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 3: Her astrological sign was pist seats, so white way fish. Yeah. 510 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 3: So the whole history of snacking, right, the whole history 511 00:28:26,720 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 3: of snacking would be different if this guy's wife had 512 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,040 Speaker 3: been born at a different time of the year, like 513 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,000 Speaker 3: if she'd been a cancer. We might have three different 514 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 3: bags of crab crackers in my house right now. 515 00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:40,320 Speaker 1: That's amazing. I did a show on astrology, and the 516 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: whole point of it was like whether or not you 517 00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: believe in astrology. It's happened to you because like Reagan 518 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: used astrology for nuclear deep proliferation, or like, uh, the 519 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: ways astrology is around you without your noticing it is crazy. 520 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,720 Speaker 1: But the fact that it's in my snack cabinet is 521 00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: not something that I figured out yet. 522 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 3: A particular in mid century Switzerland happened to be born 523 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 3: in a peticlar toniner, and therefore we have cold fish crackers. 524 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,120 Speaker 3: My other favorite food origin story is a much lesser 525 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 3: known food called coba, which is from Madagascar. It's street 526 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 3: food that you would often find in like a train station, 527 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,239 Speaker 3: bus station, that kind of place. And to make it, 528 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 3: you take rice, flour, mashed banana, honey, and peanuts, mix 529 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 3: them all up, put them in a banana leaf, and 530 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,719 Speaker 3: you steam them. So it's kind of like our very 531 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 3: sweet tamali. You cut into slices and you sell it 532 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,000 Speaker 3: by this slice, very very dense, very sweet, very full 533 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:40,600 Speaker 3: of sugar, sounds delicious. That's in Madagascar, But it turns 534 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 3: out that there is an almost identical food in Indonesia 535 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 3: and the island of Borneo, and actually in a specific 536 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 3: part I think it's southern Borneo, which is about five 537 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 3: thousand miles away, right, But that also happens to be 538 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 3: where the original inhabitants of Madagascar came from. They sailed 539 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,200 Speaker 3: from Borneo, we think about twelve hundred years ago. Scientists 540 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 3: have dunge genetic analysis between the two places and so 541 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 3: that they've confirmed that's the origin story of the human 542 00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,760 Speaker 3: settling of Madagascar. Even if you're not a scientist studying DNA, 543 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 3: you can make the connection by looking at some of 544 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:18,360 Speaker 3: the similarities in language and boats and other things, including cooba. 545 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 3: So if you go to the bus stop in Madagascar 546 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 3: and somebody is selling this sweet snack, it's really a 547 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:30,000 Speaker 3: symbol of these ancient seafares from millennia ago and the 548 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 3: incredible journey they undertook, And you can use that particular 549 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 3: snack to trace the roots of an entire society to 550 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,960 Speaker 3: a specific region across an ocean. 551 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: More with Doug Mack right after this break, Welcome back 552 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,720 Speaker 1: to part time is where we're talking all about snacks today. So, Doug, 553 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: before we end, I was amused by your stating on 554 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 1: the record that you're skeptical of viral novelty foods. First, like, 555 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:16,720 Speaker 1: how are you defining viral novelty food, And then secondly, 556 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 1: what is it about them that makes you so skeptical? 557 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 3: So viral novelty foods? I would say that these are 558 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 3: corporate foods. I'm not just talking about somebody making your recipe. 559 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 3: That's fine, no problems with that, Go have your fue 560 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:33,320 Speaker 3: love it. 561 00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: I'll probably try like state fares, right, Like state fares 562 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: are full of like sort of knowledge. 563 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 3: I don't mind the crazy foods at state fairs. The 564 00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 3: Minnesota State there, which which I truly love, that is 565 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 3: held at the end of August, beginning of September and 566 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 3: in early July. Every year. It's this big media event 567 00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:53,960 Speaker 3: when they announce all the new foods and people are 568 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,760 Speaker 3: posting on it on social media, their stories in the newspaper, 569 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 3: on TV, all this stuff. I love that because those 570 00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:03,480 Speaker 3: typically are independent vendors. They're trying to catch attention, but 571 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 3: often they are just bringing in ingredients that haven't been 572 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,520 Speaker 3: at the fair or cultures that haven't really been represented 573 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:13,640 Speaker 3: the fair. So those and those became sort of big 574 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 3: viral advance, at least locally because everyone's like, oh, it's 575 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 3: a new fair food. But the viral foods that really 576 00:32:19,760 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 3: bug me are the ones like when Taco Bell or 577 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 3: some other big company is like, Hey, we've got this 578 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 3: new crazy thing that you're going to want to post 579 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,640 Speaker 3: about on Instagram, and that I think is really really 580 00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:34,840 Speaker 3: what it's about is it is internet content. And I 581 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 3: see those as less like a joyful expression of like, hey, 582 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 3: we want to share this thing. 583 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: It's like a cross commercial opportunity. 584 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right. It's this cynical effort to take your 585 00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:53,160 Speaker 3: sense of wonder and surprise but commodify it in a 586 00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 3: way that I just find really off putting because these 587 00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 3: things are not just being in bold and flavorful, but 588 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,040 Speaker 3: they're supposed to give you bragging, right, And it's this 589 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,400 Speaker 3: corporation that's like forcing this sense of play on you, 590 00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 3: but you're supposed to be entertained on their terms, and 591 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 3: I just find that a little bit exhausting. There's this 592 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 3: like cheese it front trap was one of the big 593 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 3: things from Taco Bell recently, and if somebody just made 594 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 3: that in their own kitchen, I would think that was 595 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:22,880 Speaker 3: really fun and cool. When it's Taco Bell, it's just 596 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 3: like hammering you over the head and being like, aren't 597 00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 3: you entertained? Isn't this fun? No? No, thank you? 598 00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:38,960 Speaker 1: No, are there any snack trends that you're seeing right 599 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,720 Speaker 1: now that are curious or fascinating to you. 600 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 3: Yeah. That trend that I'm starting to see and that 601 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,000 Speaker 3: I would love to see more of, is just even 602 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 3: more variation within chips, in particular potato chips. Obviously there 603 00:33:52,000 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 3: are a ton of flavors already, but in other countries 604 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,959 Speaker 3: they also have their own flavors. You can certainly find 605 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:01,360 Speaker 3: some of those risk from other parts of the world 606 00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:05,479 Speaker 3: here in the States, but it's not always easy. I 607 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 3: think that some of those are gonna start to hit 608 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,320 Speaker 3: it big and be available, you know, in every convenience store. 609 00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,359 Speaker 1: Do you have a specific example of mine. 610 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 3: I don't have a specific example, but I do have 611 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 3: a specific example of packaging. When I was in Japan 612 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:21,080 Speaker 3: a year ago, you could get various snacks on the train, 613 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 3: and Japan also has an amazing snack and culture. There 614 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,760 Speaker 3: was a brand I think it was called Star Chips, 615 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,720 Speaker 3: I want to say, and you could get them everywhere. 616 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,840 Speaker 3: They're sort of sold them a little kidister much like Pringles, 617 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 3: but the version that you could buy on the trains 618 00:34:35,880 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 3: had this really cool graphic design. It was like a 619 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 3: version of the Great waves of the famous painting, only 620 00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 3: available limited edition on the trains. I bought the snacks 621 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,680 Speaker 3: just for the packaging, and I would love to see 622 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 3: like Kringles or Fredo Lay or some more snack companies 623 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 3: just really get some really artsy snack packages. You know, 624 00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:02,920 Speaker 3: maybe that's not necessarily about the place, but I absolutely 625 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 3: would go all in on that. I would be the 626 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 3: guy driving from state to state to get the limited 627 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:14,600 Speaker 3: edition Texas or Washington version of whatever packaging or whatever flavor. 628 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 3: I think that'd be kind of cool. 629 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it feels like an easy win for someone. Yeah, 630 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,160 Speaker 1: So one last question. Chex mix is such a big 631 00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,239 Speaker 1: thing in my family. My dad always baked up Chex 632 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,279 Speaker 1: mix for holidays, from Thanksgiving through the New Year. I 633 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 1: had never really thought about the evolution of it and 634 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: how first of all, how it came about, and then 635 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: like how it changed, And I was curious if you 636 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:40,240 Speaker 1: could tell a little bit of that story. 637 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 3: Chex Mix is something that's emblematic of a broader trend 638 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 3: in stacking. The first version of Chex Mix, as far 639 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 3: as I can tell, wasn't like a prepackaged thing. It 640 00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,280 Speaker 3: was a recipe that appeared in Life magazine in nineteen 641 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 3: fifty two. The idea was that this is something that 642 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:03,040 Speaker 3: you can make to entertain. You know, this is targeted 643 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,960 Speaker 3: toward the post war housewife. Americans are having a little 644 00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:08,839 Speaker 3: bit more money, a little bit more leisure time. There 645 00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 3: is much more of like a dinner party and informal 646 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 3: hosting at your house kind of energy in society. The 647 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,879 Speaker 3: entertaining vibe has gone from you we have to have 648 00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 3: find china and find silverware and all that stuff too. Yeah, 649 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:26,240 Speaker 3: we can just have people come over for drinks and snacks, 650 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 3: but there's still certain expectations of what you're gonna have. 651 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:31,319 Speaker 3: Some thought and care has to go into it. So 652 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 3: the idea with this recipe was, hey, housewife, here's a 653 00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 3: fun recipe that you can combine these different cereals probably 654 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,040 Speaker 3: have on hand and other ingredients, and then you can 655 00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:44,040 Speaker 3: present it to your friends. And that's kind of nice, right, 656 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,399 Speaker 3: that's a little bit fancy. It's an entertaining food. And 657 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,400 Speaker 3: then over time the companies start to package it together 658 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:54,120 Speaker 3: and it becomes more of just like it in any 659 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 3: time kind of thing. It's not just for parties. Now 660 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,400 Speaker 3: you can snack on it anytime you want. You can 661 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,600 Speaker 3: see the same trend. For example, an easy change the 662 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:07,399 Speaker 3: sprayable cheese in a can, which started out at about 663 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 3: the same time. It was presented to women hosting parties 664 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:14,800 Speaker 3: as like, here's a way to just put some cheese 665 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,759 Speaker 3: on crackers. You can make it into little designs. It's 666 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,360 Speaker 3: really fancy. It's convenience food, but it's also kind of classy. 667 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 1: It feels very mad Men, right, like you can imagine 668 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: those tits. 669 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, very mad men, very much geared toward like this 670 00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 3: is a nice thing that you give to your guests. 671 00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:33,000 Speaker 3: It's not an everyday thing for family, but it's also 672 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:37,359 Speaker 3: super easy. And over time, again as with checks mix, 673 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,680 Speaker 3: easy chase just becomes a little bit more ubiquitous. It's 674 00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:44,279 Speaker 3: now it's become sort of like a stunt food, but 675 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,000 Speaker 3: it really wasn't a stunt food when it originated. It 676 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 3: was a convenience food, but it was something classy that 677 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,320 Speaker 3: you serve at your fancy cocktail party. 678 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,160 Speaker 1: It was basically like a revolutionary convenience food. Right. It 679 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,040 Speaker 1: feels like cutting edge technology almost to be able to 680 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: save your time and present these crackers. 681 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,279 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, it's very yeah, mid century view of 682 00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,640 Speaker 3: the future, like, look, you can put your food in 683 00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 3: a can and spray it out well. 684 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:12,840 Speaker 1: Doug, thank you so much for being here with me. 685 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: The newsletter is Snackstack. It is so good. 686 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, people can look at snackstack dot net or I'm 687 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 3: sure if you google it you will find some listings, 688 00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,440 Speaker 3: and I hope I'm at the top of those listings. 689 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: I couldn't recommend it more. 690 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 3: Well. 691 00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,200 Speaker 2: As predicted, that was an awesome chat with Doug Mango. 692 00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,640 Speaker 2: He is such an interesting guy and you know now 693 00:38:35,680 --> 00:38:37,839 Speaker 2: I really want to organize and tasting where we do 694 00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 2: like somosas from around the world. There are different types 695 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 2: of crazy candies and just have him talk us through 696 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,239 Speaker 2: all the tasting notes and origin stories. We got to 697 00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:48,800 Speaker 2: get this on the book sometimes. 698 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,359 Speaker 1: It would be so fun. I actually talked to Doug 699 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:52,840 Speaker 1: and he's promised me that he'll come back to do 700 00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:56,120 Speaker 1: a special on Super Bowl snacks. So maybe we can 701 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 1: do a ridiculous tasting with that. Perfect That's it for 702 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,760 Speaker 1: today's episode. We'll be back soon with a brand new show, 703 00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: but from Gabe, Mary, Dylan and me. Thank you so 704 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:21,360 Speaker 1: much for listening. Part Time Genius is a production of 705 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. This show is hosted by Will Pearson 706 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,640 Speaker 1: and me Mongais Chatikler, and research by our good pal 707 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 1: Mary Philip Sandy. Today's episode was engineered and produced by 708 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,560 Speaker 1: the wonderful Dylan Fagan with support from Tyler Klang. The 709 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:41,080 Speaker 1: show is executive produced for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and 710 00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,799 Speaker 1: Ali Perry, with social media support from Sasha Gay, trustee 711 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:49,440 Speaker 1: Dara Potts and Viney Shorey. For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope 712 00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 1: and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 713 00:39:54,400 --> 00:40:06,720 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.