WEBVTT - Ben and Jerry Warm Up 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:03.920 Hello, it's Alec Baldwin. We're going to rebroadcast an episode 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:07.240 from our archives. This week we have a show recorded 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:11.120 live in Vermont with Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, who 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.160 you know, of course as Ben and Jerry. They've gotten 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:16.640 a lot of my business over the last many years. 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.320 We'll have new episodes of Here's the Thing beginning March fifteenth. 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:27.720 Until then, enjoy my talk with Ben and Jerry. I'm 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:32.200 Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Two 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:36.760 thousand eighteen marks the fortieth anniversary of the first Ben 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:40.880 and Jerry's scoop shop in a converted Vermont gas station. 0:00:42.920 --> 0:00:46.559 Back then, it was just Ben Cohen, the rootless art teacher, 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:50.919 and Jerry Greenfield, the diligent premed who were friends from 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:55.560 middle school Jim class. They figured they'd move on from 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.360 ice cream in a few years when it became boring 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:04.640 or unprofitable. But of course history had other things to say. Today, 0:01:04.920 --> 0:01:08.000 you'd be forgiven for thinking of Ben and Jerry as 0:01:08.040 --> 0:01:11.479 more milk and cream than flesh and blood. But it 0:01:11.600 --> 0:01:15.160 was the real people behind the pints that emerged when 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:18.920 the two joined me for a rare joint interview last month. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.600 Our conversation was taped in front of a live audience 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.479 at the Flynn Center for the Performing Arts in Burlington, 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.679 just a couple of miles from the site where Cohen 0:01:29.760 --> 0:01:35.720 and Greenfield set up shop in Please help Me Welcome, 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:53.520 Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield. I knew I should have 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.000 gone into the ice cream business. Look at that applause. 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.880 You've got to look at that, you know, looking at 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:03.720 you were a story and seeing your lives before you 0:02:03.800 --> 0:02:07.800 became these huge successes. You've been in each other's lives 0:02:07.840 --> 0:02:09.680 for a long long time. You know, both of you 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:11.760 grew up in Brooklyn and then you met in Merrick 0:02:11.840 --> 0:02:14.680 Long Island where you met in school. Why you stayed 0:02:14.720 --> 0:02:18.480 so close to him? And then you go, I've just 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:23.320 never run into a better friend to spend my life with. Uh. 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:27.560 You know, he's kind of smart, he's funny. Uh, you know, 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:31.680 he has a real he has very strange eating habits 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:39.440 and such as well. You know, the earliest memories actually 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:42.240 I have of his eating habits as he was once 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:48.720 attempting to survive on these one calorie candies that his mom, 0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.640 I guess packed for him in his little sandwich bag. 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:58.000 For school lunch and uh, and we were in gym 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:03.960 class together and he killed over. He fainted and uh, 0:03:04.080 --> 0:03:09.120 you know it's some kind of strange liquid came out 0:03:09.120 --> 0:03:13.960 of some facial orifice and the coach covered it up 0:03:13.960 --> 0:03:16.680 with the gym mats so that he could show it 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:19.360 to the nurse when the nurse came by. In the 0:03:19.400 --> 0:03:21.200 movie version of Your Life, I'm gonna have that kid 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:26.839 run up and go, Jerry, are you okay? And he's like, yeah, 0:03:26.880 --> 0:03:30.840 what's your name? And you're like Ben, my name is Ben, 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.399 Thanks buddy, And that's where we all was born there. Y. Yeah. 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:41.920 The second food memory I have of Jerry is uh, 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:47.640 when he was surviving on what he called slop, which 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:53.360 was he would mix together cream of wheat and cream 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:58.080 of mushroom soup and he kept it around in this 0:03:58.920 --> 0:04:01.400 jar that he kept in his car and he would 0:04:01.480 --> 0:04:10.720 kind of drink out of it. And thank god, Ben 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:23.240 created all the flavors. So that was a slop something 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.279 that was consumed over the course of a day a week. 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:30.880 I I uh, I was trying to be healthy, and 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:35.159 so I was I have I have no trouble eating 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:38.039 the same food over and over day after day. I mean, 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:40.560 it's just sort of that he does not lived to 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:45.000 eat no imagination does eat a lot, but uh he 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.800 he doesn't care what he eats. Let's talk about Ben 0:04:47.880 --> 0:04:53.760 for a minute. You love Ben that I love so. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.840 Uh We we met first of all because we were 0:04:57.880 --> 0:05:01.120 both fat kids in junior high school and you know, 0:05:01.440 --> 0:05:04.920 uh we were not exactly in the main stream of 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.359 social activities. We were both kind of nerdy kids, and 0:05:08.640 --> 0:05:11.960 uh so we we hung out together a lot, and 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:16.640 we remained nerdy kids. So I think that was that 0:05:16.680 --> 0:05:21.560 was of cream of wheat qualifier. And you know, plus 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.479 we we always did like to eat together. I mean 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:29.560 we would have food together, and uh Ben, Ben was 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.919 the first person who talked to me about taught me 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:38.280 about uh wet crunch and dry crunch. Ben's really into 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:42.719 textures in foods. I used to talk a lot about 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:47.200 eating through the pain. So food was a big glue 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.440 in your relationship, very much, right. And when you say, 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.000 what's in the ice cream is his hemisphere and what's yours? 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.039 Uh well, I used to make it, but you know what, 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:00.839 what's one of the inch same things? You know, So 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:02.520 you think of Ben and Jerry as you think of 0:06:02.560 --> 0:06:06.760 all these incredible flavors, and so people assume that Ben 0:06:06.800 --> 0:06:08.760 made some of the flavors and Jerry made some of 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:12.960 the flavors. Jerry, what were your flavors? And it's kind 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:17.440 of a long pause at that point. We had stop 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:19.800 on the menu for a while. But so you're the 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:26.240 business end. No, no, neither one of us. No. So 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:28.440 you know, they were all a really good joint. What 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:33.039 are you saying? What you Uh, it's legal here, you know, yeah, 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:36.600 I think we're recording up there. Ben came up with 0:06:36.680 --> 0:06:39.400 the flavors. I would make the ice cream. We started 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:47.039 with this little shop right here in Burlington. Uh. And 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:51.000 and for those people who remember forty years ago, about 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.719 two weeks after we opened up, we closed the store 0:06:54.960 --> 0:06:57.640 because we couldn't figure out if we were making any 0:06:57.640 --> 0:07:00.440 money to stay in business. And we put up a 0:07:00.480 --> 0:07:04.080 little sign on the door that said closed. And uh, 0:07:04.279 --> 0:07:07.240 we had an accountant who walked in the door and said, hey, 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:11.080 I can help you. And so I saved that first shop. Ye. 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:12.760 But but but I want to go back and forth 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:15.640 that because in you're lives, there's a lot of uh, 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:20.760 you're going to go to college to medical school's conceptually right, 0:07:21.080 --> 0:07:25.880 we consider I'll take it um. And you wanted to 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.480 become a scholar, but you were into pottery, pottery, and 0:07:28.480 --> 0:07:30.440 then you end up teaching pottery. Where again, was it 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:36.440 those who can't do? You know, well, that can't make 0:07:36.440 --> 0:07:38.920 a lot of money selling ice cream. But but but 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:40.800 you were you were where did you end up teaching? 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.360 That was in the in the Adondex in the town 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:50.440 called Paradox, at the at the Highland Community School for 0:07:50.760 --> 0:07:53.640 Disturbed teenagers. But there's one section there. I think when 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:55.920 you guys are not in the same city and you're 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:59.280 not around anything for a few years, correct, when when 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:01.320 we decide I did that we were going to make 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.480 ice cream together. We were not in the same place 0:08:04.480 --> 0:08:06.160 and you were not in the same place for how long? 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.040 Oh it was years. But we made a vow. So 0:08:09.120 --> 0:08:11.680 we decided we were gonna learn how to make ice cream, 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:14.360 and so we pledged to each other that we were 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:18.440 going to start making test batches of ice cream wherever 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.800 it was we were living and report the results back 0:08:20.840 --> 0:08:26.280 and whatever. And I never made any but we also, 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:31.559 I think we're clear on that it should have been Ben. 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.199 Ben was the guy who stopped doing his homework. What 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:36.559 in junior high school. I mean I was the guy 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.800 I finished all my homework. I should have been making 0:08:38.800 --> 0:08:40.960 the ice cream. But I only mentioned that five year 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:42.480 gap because this is back in the time of there 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.120 are no cell phones and there is no internet. So 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.160 maintaining that friendship, I mean, your friendship is integral to 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.600 this home. We wrote letters, Well, we had a chain 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.720 letter that we wrote to a group of friends, and 0:08:55.960 --> 0:09:00.560 you know, each person would America enter the they're comments 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.800 and then send the letter around to the next person, 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:06.000 and you know, it just kind oft on circulating like that. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:11.840 So you stayed in touch all that time. We didn't 0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:16.360 We didn't lose touch. And what was the what facilitated 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:19.079 you getting back here and opening that first place in 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:24.319 Burlington in the former gas station that you opened up him? Well, 0:09:24.360 --> 0:09:28.240 I failed at being a potter, No nobody would buy 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:33.160 my pottering. And he failed at being a doctor. He 0:09:33.160 --> 0:09:38.240 couldn't get into medical school. So we figured we're not 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:42.600 getting anywhere in the world, and um, maybe we should 0:09:42.600 --> 0:09:45.640 start our own business. Did you know what kind of 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.480 business were you? Right? I mean, that's interesting. You didn't 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.760 decide to go into like, you know, the camping gear business, right, 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.040 it had to be food, and uh, we were originally 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.080 going to open a restaurant. We had one friend who 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:02.080 knew something about business. He said, whatever you do, don't 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.960 open a full service restaurant. If it's got to be food, 0:10:05.600 --> 0:10:09.719 open a very limited menu kind of place. And we 0:10:09.800 --> 0:10:13.240 wanted to live in a rural college town. So the 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.120 idea was to take a food trend that was just 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:19.240 starting off in the big cities, take it to a 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:23.000 rural college town. And uh, the food trends that were 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:27.160 happening was bagels or ice cream, and uh, we thought 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:32.520 we would do bagels. And you couldn't make bagels either, 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.839 could That's kind of like sculpting, isn't it. That's kind 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.400 of like potter me. You gotta shape it, your throw 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:40.319 into a kiln, right right, right. It's a little more 0:10:40.360 --> 0:10:43.680 forgiving than pottery. But you left up the pottery and 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:49.040 the bagels. Apparently. I was actually a baker's helper once 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:53.480 and I got fired. But when you was signed on 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:55.920 to that, you like the idea of a food business. Yeah, 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:58.920 because we didn't know anything about anything. We knew we 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:03.080 liked to eat, and uh, I mean you know when 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.320 you say a food business, Uh, we weren't really thinking 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.400 about a business. For us. It was kind of a 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.480 venture open up a shop, and we thought we would 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:13.160 do that for a couple of years, and then we 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:16.080 thought we would try something else. You know. We we 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.680 talked about becoming cross country truck drivers together after that. 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.400 So you know, it's not thank God for all our 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:38.360 sakes you do that. We'll be back after this. You 0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:43.440 use you opened the first store in Burlington's Win seven 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:48.000 and and what was ice cream in America? Then? Well, 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.199 ice cream in Burlington was you had the U v M. 0:11:52.320 --> 0:12:01.040 Dairy Bar and you had a Sewer's ice cream at 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:06.120 the bus station in downtown Burlington and that was really 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:10.800 the only Wasn't that enough? Well the bus station was 0:12:10.840 --> 0:12:16.240 a pretty seedy place at the time. Uh no, uh clear. 0:12:16.240 --> 0:12:20.120 And there was Uptons, the pinball parlor, oh Upton's right. 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.880 Cream also, Now for you to go back, when you 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.199 were a child, what was ice cream and your child 0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.600 were you? Were you an ice cream person? Yeah, we 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.640 always had ice cream in our freezer and we would 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.120 get half gallons from the supermarket and uh it was 0:12:35.200 --> 0:12:39.280 just kind of a staple in our house. Briars. Same 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:41.800 for you. Well, when I was a kid, because you 0:12:41.840 --> 0:12:44.920 talked about the beginning of the era of the super 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:47.560 premium ice cream, people spending more money for better quality 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:50.000 ice cream. But when I was a kid, you went 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:54.200 to Howard Johnson's on the highway in Massive Peak where 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:56.360 I was from, and they scooped ice cream, which was 0:12:56.360 --> 0:13:00.440 pretty good ice cream. There was carvel. You bought ires 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:03.160 by the container and took briars home from the supermarket 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.800 where you had the vendors and trucks like Mr Softie 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:08.000 and Good Humor was the big one on when I 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:11.240 could be at Truck's, you know, patrolling the neighborhood when 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:13.680 I was a kid. And then we get into the 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.680 era of you know, fruzing glagia and hogging does and 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:20.720 so forth. When you started making ice cream, did you 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.360 say to yourself, this is who we are, we're gonna 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.800 make We just wanted to make the best ice cream 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:32.000 we possibly could and our model was Steve's ice Cream 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:37.400 in uh Summerville, mass What made a good ice he 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:40.600 was He was one of the first homemade ice cream 0:13:40.640 --> 0:13:45.679 parlors on the East Coast. He was making ice cream 0:13:45.800 --> 0:13:49.400 in a five gallon rock salt and ice freezer in 0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:54.040 the window and uh, you know, people were lined up 0:13:54.080 --> 0:13:57.840 around the block. There was a there was a player 0:13:57.880 --> 0:14:01.040 piano on the line. You could, you know, put a 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:04.640 quarter in and make the player piano play and and 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.559 it was great ice cream. He was doing nixings. Uh 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:09.720 you know, so you'd get a scoop of ice cream, 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.319 you know, vanilla, chocolate, coffee. You say, I want a 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.560 scoopa ice cream and I want heath bars mixed in, 0:14:17.280 --> 0:14:21.440 and they would, right. They were the cold Stone forerunner. 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.840 So in the beginning, what kind of menu did you have? 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:29.280 Was it basic flavors or were you throwing you know, uh, 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:33.880 you know, spare parts in there. From the beginning, always 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.600 started with vanilla. We started with chocolate, We started with coffee, 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:42.400 you know, the real basics. Uh. We Ben had not 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:48.200 yet flourished as an ice cream creative. I think one 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.320 of the first flavors we came out with that was 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.880 a real knockout as far as we were concerned was 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:58.680 cantaloupe we we made. I mean, it was great ice 0:14:58.720 --> 0:15:00.440 but we don't see that on the menu anymore than 0:15:01.320 --> 0:15:03.400 you don't. I mean the reason why you don't see 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:06.200 it on the menu anymore is in order to make 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:12.760 cantalope ice cream. You need overripe cantalopes, and uh, you know, 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:16.840 the produce wholesalers in town really liked us because, you know, 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:18.960 we'd call up and we'd say, hey, do you got 0:15:19.000 --> 0:15:21.680 any overripe cantalopes? And they just couldn't wait to get 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:26.360 rid of the overripe cantalopes. And Jerry would be scooping out, uh, 0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:30.840 you know, the stuff that wasn't rotten, and uh, you know, 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:36.080 pushing up the overripe. Absolutely avoided the stuff that was rotten. 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:39.040 I did not use that, and you know, and it 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.840 was great. I mean it wasn't It tasted just like 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:46.880 a cantaloupe, except it was creamy and frozen and uh, 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.240 but the problem is you can't do it in large 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.600 quantities because not everybody would be there, like Jerry, you know, 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.920 scooping it out. You know, it's very much a hand operation. 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.760 So you come up with the flavors. You're like Jerry 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:06.200 cut and scoop. Though, well it was more like that 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:09.960 way with the heath bars. Uh. You know, at the beginning, 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:18.120 we were buying heath bars that were individually wrapped, and uh, 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:23.440 Jerry would line them unwrapped and and line them up 0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:27.040 on a cutting board and we had this big two 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:30.840 handled knife. Uh and he would cut him what how 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:35.600 many ways, which which into thirds and then the other way. 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.840 Well it was just thirds. Uh. So we were doing 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.400 this and it was our most popular flavor, and you 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:45.800 know he was doing it a lot and uh and 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:51.960 then you know, we hired our first guy who knew 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:56.400 something about business and who was Cheeko Lager. By the way, 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:02.880 he uh he uh he cheeko loggerg like beer, logger 0:17:02.920 --> 0:17:06.800 like beer. He name his Cheeko Logger Cheeico Logger. That's 0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.960 the fakest name I've ever heard in my life. He 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:13.959 owned the bar. Uh, this is real name, like Andy Horowitz. 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:19.080 And if he wants to have one guy with a 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:25.840 different man Chico Lagger and uh what did? He called 0:17:25.920 --> 0:17:28.880 up the heath bar company and said, you know, we're 0:17:28.920 --> 0:17:31.920 using all these heath bars. Can't we buy them unwrapped? 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:39.320 And they said, huh uh, you know we have boxes 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.359 and boxes full of all these factory second heath bars 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:45.679 that you know there's something slightly wrong with and we 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.520 didn't wrap them. You want those? And he said, yeah, 0:17:48.600 --> 0:17:51.040 I'll take them. And you know it was a great 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:55.320 deal in terms of money. And you know this guy, 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:58.120 you know, he was an NBA. You know, he does 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:01.120 his calculations and figures out out the cost of money 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:03.320 and the interest in all this kind of crap and 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:07.720 ended up ordering like a ton of heath bars. And 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.520 he's got him piled up in the office behind his chair. 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:14.560 And uh so we had a storm in the freezer 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.640 so that they didn't you know, melt or go bad 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.120 or whatever. We had them stored on the top rack 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:26.200 in the pallettes in in this walk in freezer. And 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:30.560 one day somebody went to get the pallette down and 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:34.640 he dropped him on the floor before Jerry could cut 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.840 him up, and then opened we opened up the box 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:43.399 and they were broken exactly right. And that became the 0:18:43.480 --> 0:18:47.639 new method of breaking up the heath bars. So so 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.840 for months everything Jerry's and the freezer going step back, cheek, 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:57.480 I tell them already, tell him already, sweep him up. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:00.600 Let's go. So you open up in burly To and 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.439 it's seventy And when do things start to fizz a 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.200 little bit? When do you think you're onto something? What's 0:19:07.240 --> 0:19:09.439 the sign that you're onto something other than you're scooping, 0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.320 a lot of slowing down a little before we started fizzing. 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:20.560 Why it turned into the winter from the summer, and 0:19:20.640 --> 0:19:24.080 that explains why there weren't really many other ice cream 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:28.440 barlors here in burl at the time. Yeah, what did 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:31.560 your competitors do during the longer than they close? Well, 0:19:31.600 --> 0:19:36.119 you know, Sewards was selling a lot of sandwiches and 0:19:36.200 --> 0:19:38.520 hot doors. You didn't want to do that, no, because 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.320 that was the sign of an ice cream shop that 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:45.120 was going out of business. They started to sell all 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.119 this other crap. What do you do? We started to 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:54.199 sell all the crap. We were saying discount on broken 0:19:54.240 --> 0:20:00.959 heath balls, we were selling soups and crepes. Actually, you know, 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:03.439 Jerry was in charge of the ice cream. I was 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.040 in charge of all the other crap, and we don't 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:10.200 sell any of that any And you you were deciding 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:11.639 what that would be. You with a decider of that 0:20:11.680 --> 0:20:17.520 as well, pretty much, I think, I mean we discussed 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.320 it together, but we came up with a great ice 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:24.000 cream marketing promotion in the winter. It was called pop 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:28.520 sid Biswie, which stood for penny off per Celsius degree 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:34.600 below zero Winter Extravaganza. They all remember it. Everybody remembers 0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:37.760 that promotion at then and Jerry's the colder it gets 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.200 the more you say. So, it's a miracle that you're 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.160 up here with me today about your great success. When 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.359 you tell me that acronymic what is it again? Pop 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:54.040 sid Biswie penny off Percelsius. She had a screwy way 0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.720 of selling ice cream. We have TV commercial that had 0:20:56.720 --> 0:20:59.200 pop sid bizwe in it. It put up each letter 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:03.560 one at a time, BOPCG one. Did you win some 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:09.720 marketing of boards? But you would literally discount purther weather 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:15.399 and that's what saved you. You think, no, but but 0:21:15.600 --> 0:21:17.520 one of the great things that grew out of that. 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:21.200 So that was our first winter. We were really struggling, uh, 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:23.639 and Ben and I said to each other, boy, if 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:27.640 we're still in business after a year, we'll celebrate by 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:32.000 giving out free ice cream to everybody. Because we didn't 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:33.760 think we were going to stay in business, and there 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:36.760 was really not much there. Uh. But we were in 0:21:36.840 --> 0:21:39.200 business after a year, and that was our first free 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:44.280 cone Day, which still takes place every year. It's around 0:21:44.280 --> 0:21:47.600 the first Tuesday in April. You can get in line 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:49.800 as many times as you want at any Ben and 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:52.600 Jerry's shop. And when do really thinks start? When do 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:54.240 you look at each other and say, we gotta take 0:21:54.280 --> 0:21:59.480 this to another level? We things started getting worse, uh, 0:21:59.600 --> 0:22:02.239 and we said, we're never gonna make it with an 0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:04.600 ice cream shop. We need to find another way to 0:22:04.640 --> 0:22:07.920 bring in more money. And so we started selling ice 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:11.359 cream to some local restaurants that had asked for it. 0:22:11.440 --> 0:22:16.000 Ben became our roots salesman. He would go around and 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:20.080 selling ice cream and then he was passing by all 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.600 these mom and pop stores that he was going by 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:25.960 delivering ice cream to restaurants, and he thought we should 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:29.320 package our ice cream into pine containers and he could 0:22:29.359 --> 0:22:32.760 sell it in there. And that is what started the 0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:39.119 business going forward. Yeah, there were stores, m and what 0:22:39.280 --> 0:22:42.879 year did that start to take off? I don't know. 0:22:42.920 --> 0:22:46.080 We we don't remember this, okay, okay, I'm just curious 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.200 about when do you do? You mean right now it's 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.040 a I mean, let's not kill ourselves. It's a huge company. 0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:55.000 When did you go public? We went public first just 0:22:55.160 --> 0:22:58.919 within the state of Vermont. Uh. The idea was to 0:22:59.359 --> 0:23:04.200 make the community the shareholders of the business. Uh. We had, 0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:07.000 you know, a bunch of venture capitalists that were approaching 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:09.480 us saying they wanted to invest in the business, and 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:13.359 we said, no, we don't want to do it that way. 0:23:13.440 --> 0:23:17.960 We want to use this need for cash as an 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:22.479 opportunity to make the community the owners of the business. 0:23:22.080 --> 0:23:25.679 Worked out great. We sold out the offering. It was 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:33.800 the first ever in state public stock offering, and you know, 0:23:34.000 --> 0:23:37.200 a lot of people bought stock and happily the stock 0:23:37.240 --> 0:23:39.600 went up. A lot of people made a bunch of money. 0:23:39.720 --> 0:23:43.720 People's kids went to college on manager's stock. What was 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.800 unique about that was there was a very low minimum purchase. 0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.159 There was a hundred and twenty six dollars. So it 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:54.280 was not aimed at sophisticated investors. It was aimed at everybody. 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:57.000 So the Vermont offering was in eighty four, and then 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.560 we had a public offering nationally in ninety eight five, 0:24:01.920 --> 0:24:03.919 and then you sell the company to Uni Lever in 0:24:03.920 --> 0:24:07.879 two thousand. The company got sold. The company got to 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:10.880 keep it independent. You did, you did explain to people 0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:14.840 how that works. Mean you have a board and uh, 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:17.720 I mean, I just would assume a company named Ben 0:24:17.760 --> 0:24:20.400 and Jerry, and Ben and Jerry are alive, and I'm 0:24:20.400 --> 0:24:23.280 assuming that they're involved they're calling the shots. How does 0:24:23.320 --> 0:24:25.360 a company get sold by your board if you don't 0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:26.800 want it to get sold to you, a Leaver? How 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:28.760 did that work out? I mean, in the end you 0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:30.240 said that we have when things with you to Lever 0:24:30.320 --> 0:24:32.639 A fine, it worked out well, But how did it 0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:36.800 get sold? Uh? There was a CEO who was running 0:24:36.800 --> 0:24:41.000 the company at the time who um saw way for 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.560 him to make a bunch of money by selling the company, 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:49.359 and uh, you Lever was courting him. They were courting 0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:53.720 each other, I think, and so Uni Leaver ended up 0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:56.800 offering so much money for the stock, so much above 0:24:56.960 --> 0:24:59.520 what the price that it was trading at, that the 0:24:59.600 --> 0:25:07.959 board had no choice legally but to recommend uh sale. Right. 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:14.640 Do they have other ice cream popsicle briars Klondike, Uh, 0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:20.960 Magnum magnum, tlenty tolenty go. They're a very big ice 0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:28.040 cream every shelf of the freezer case. If you like 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:31.560 ice cream, you've probably already heard this one. But there's 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:36.000 no better ice cream conversation in our archives than with BARBERA. 0:25:36.000 --> 0:25:39.200 Streisand I would have my kind of coffee ice cream 0:25:39.240 --> 0:25:43.560 briars and sit in my bed and dream, go to 0:25:43.600 --> 0:25:46.919 the movie. Sometimes on a Saturday afternoon the Lowis Kings. 0:25:47.320 --> 0:25:52.760 We had the greatest ice cream and we also, yeah, 0:25:53.480 --> 0:25:55.560 you're you're, you're like me. Somebody'll say what was the 0:25:55.560 --> 0:25:57.199 best part of the summer, I'd say, what is this 0:25:57.320 --> 0:26:00.000