1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: Hello, it's Alec Baldwin. We're going to rebroadcast an episode 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: from our archives. This week we have a show recorded 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 1: live in Vermont with Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield, who 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: you know, of course as Ben and Jerry. They've gotten 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:16,640 Speaker 1: a lot of my business over the last many years. 6 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: We'll have new episodes of Here's the Thing beginning March fifteenth. 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: Until then, enjoy my talk with Ben and Jerry. I'm 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,200 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Two 9 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen marks the fortieth anniversary of the first Ben 10 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,880 Speaker 1: and Jerry's scoop shop in a converted Vermont gas station. 11 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: Back then, it was just Ben Cohen, the rootless art teacher, 12 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: and Jerry Greenfield, the diligent premed who were friends from 13 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:55,560 Speaker 1: middle school Jim class. They figured they'd move on from 14 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,360 Speaker 1: ice cream in a few years when it became boring 15 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: or unprofitable. But of course history had other things to say. Today, 16 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: you'd be forgiven for thinking of Ben and Jerry as 17 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,479 Speaker 1: more milk and cream than flesh and blood. But it 18 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 1: was the real people behind the pints that emerged when 19 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: the two joined me for a rare joint interview last month. 20 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: Our conversation was taped in front of a live audience 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 1: at the Flynn Center for the Performing Arts in Burlington, 22 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: just a couple of miles from the site where Cohen 23 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: and Greenfield set up shop in Please help Me Welcome, 24 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield. I knew I should have 25 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 1: gone into the ice cream business. Look at that applause. 26 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: You've got to look at that, you know, looking at 27 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: you were a story and seeing your lives before you 28 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: became these huge successes. You've been in each other's lives 29 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 1: for a long long time. You know, both of you 30 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:11,760 Speaker 1: grew up in Brooklyn and then you met in Merrick 31 00:02:11,840 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: Long Island where you met in school. Why you stayed 32 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: so close to him? And then you go, I've just 33 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: never run into a better friend to spend my life with. Uh. 34 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 1: You know, he's kind of smart, he's funny. Uh, you know, 35 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,680 Speaker 1: he has a real he has very strange eating habits 36 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: and such as well. You know, the earliest memories actually 37 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 1: I have of his eating habits as he was once 38 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: attempting to survive on these one calorie candies that his mom, 39 00:02:49,200 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: I guess packed for him in his little sandwich bag. 40 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: For school lunch and uh, and we were in gym 41 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: class together and he killed over. He fainted and uh, 42 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: you know it's some kind of strange liquid came out 43 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: of some facial orifice and the coach covered it up 44 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: with the gym mats so that he could show it 45 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,360 Speaker 1: to the nurse when the nurse came by. In the 46 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: movie version of Your Life, I'm gonna have that kid 47 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:26,839 Speaker 1: run up and go, Jerry, are you okay? And he's like, yeah, 48 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: what's your name? And you're like Ben, my name is Ben, 49 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 1: Thanks buddy, And that's where we all was born there. Y. Yeah. 50 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 1: The second food memory I have of Jerry is uh, 51 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: when he was surviving on what he called slop, which 52 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: was he would mix together cream of wheat and cream 53 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: of mushroom soup and he kept it around in this 54 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: jar that he kept in his car and he would 55 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: kind of drink out of it. And thank god, Ben 56 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: created all the flavors. So that was a slop something 57 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: that was consumed over the course of a day a week. 58 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: I I uh, I was trying to be healthy, and 59 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 1: so I was I have I have no trouble eating 60 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 1: the same food over and over day after day. I mean, 61 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: it's just sort of that he does not lived to 62 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: eat no imagination does eat a lot, but uh he 63 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: he doesn't care what he eats. Let's talk about Ben 64 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:53,760 Speaker 1: for a minute. You love Ben that I love so. 65 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: Uh We we met first of all because we were 66 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: both fat kids in junior high school and you know, 67 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: uh we were not exactly in the main stream of 68 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: social activities. We were both kind of nerdy kids, and 69 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: uh so we we hung out together a lot, and 70 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: we remained nerdy kids. So I think that was that 71 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 1: was of cream of wheat qualifier. And you know, plus 72 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: we we always did like to eat together. I mean 73 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 1: we would have food together, and uh Ben, Ben was 74 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 1: the first person who talked to me about taught me 75 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: about uh wet crunch and dry crunch. Ben's really into 76 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 1: textures in foods. I used to talk a lot about 77 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 1: eating through the pain. So food was a big glue 78 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: in your relationship, very much, right. And when you say, 79 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: what's in the ice cream is his hemisphere and what's yours? 80 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 1: Uh well, I used to make it, but you know what, 81 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 1: what's one of the inch same things? You know, So 82 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: you think of Ben and Jerry as you think of 83 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 1: all these incredible flavors, and so people assume that Ben 84 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: made some of the flavors and Jerry made some of 85 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: the flavors. Jerry, what were your flavors? And it's kind 86 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: of a long pause at that point. We had stop 87 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: on the menu for a while. But so you're the 88 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:26,240 Speaker 1: business end. No, no, neither one of us. No. So 89 00:06:26,360 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: you know, they were all a really good joint. What 90 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: are you saying? What you Uh, it's legal here, you know, yeah, 91 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: I think we're recording up there. Ben came up with 92 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 1: the flavors. I would make the ice cream. We started 93 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: with this little shop right here in Burlington. Uh. And 94 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 1: and for those people who remember forty years ago, about 95 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 1: two weeks after we opened up, we closed the store 96 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: because we couldn't figure out if we were making any 97 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: money to stay in business. And we put up a 98 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: little sign on the door that said closed. And uh, 99 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: we had an accountant who walked in the door and said, hey, 100 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: I can help you. And so I saved that first shop. Ye. 101 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 1: But but but I want to go back and forth 102 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: that because in you're lives, there's a lot of uh, 103 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: you're going to go to college to medical school's conceptually right, 104 00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 1: we consider I'll take it um. And you wanted to 105 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: become a scholar, but you were into pottery, pottery, and 106 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: then you end up teaching pottery. Where again, was it 107 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: those who can't do? You know, well, that can't make 108 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 1: a lot of money selling ice cream. But but but 109 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: you were you were where did you end up teaching? 110 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: That was in the in the Adondex in the town 111 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: called Paradox, at the at the Highland Community School for 112 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: Disturbed teenagers. But there's one section there. I think when 113 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: you guys are not in the same city and you're 114 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: not around anything for a few years, correct, when when 115 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: we decide I did that we were going to make 116 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: ice cream together. We were not in the same place 117 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: and you were not in the same place for how long? 118 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: Oh it was years. But we made a vow. So 119 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: we decided we were gonna learn how to make ice cream, 120 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: and so we pledged to each other that we were 121 00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: going to start making test batches of ice cream wherever 122 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: it was we were living and report the results back 123 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: and whatever. And I never made any but we also, 124 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,559 Speaker 1: I think we're clear on that it should have been Ben. 125 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,199 Speaker 1: Ben was the guy who stopped doing his homework. What 126 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: in junior high school. I mean I was the guy 127 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: I finished all my homework. I should have been making 128 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: the ice cream. But I only mentioned that five year 129 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: gap because this is back in the time of there 130 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: are no cell phones and there is no internet. So 131 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: maintaining that friendship, I mean, your friendship is integral to 132 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: this home. We wrote letters, Well, we had a chain 133 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: letter that we wrote to a group of friends, and 134 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, each person would America enter the they're comments 135 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: and then send the letter around to the next person, 136 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: and you know, it just kind oft on circulating like that. 137 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: So you stayed in touch all that time. We didn't 138 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: We didn't lose touch. And what was the what facilitated 139 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: you getting back here and opening that first place in 140 00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:24,319 Speaker 1: Burlington in the former gas station that you opened up him? Well, 141 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: I failed at being a potter, No nobody would buy 142 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: my pottering. And he failed at being a doctor. He 143 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: couldn't get into medical school. So we figured we're not 144 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 1: getting anywhere in the world, and um, maybe we should 145 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: start our own business. Did you know what kind of 146 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: business were you? Right? I mean, that's interesting. You didn't 147 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: decide to go into like, you know, the camping gear business, right, 148 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: it had to be food, and uh, we were originally 149 00:09:55,040 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 1: going to open a restaurant. We had one friend who 150 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: knew something about business. He said, whatever you do, don't 151 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: open a full service restaurant. If it's got to be food, 152 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,719 Speaker 1: open a very limited menu kind of place. And we 153 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 1: wanted to live in a rural college town. So the 154 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: idea was to take a food trend that was just 155 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: starting off in the big cities, take it to a 156 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: rural college town. And uh, the food trends that were 157 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: happening was bagels or ice cream, and uh, we thought 158 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: we would do bagels. And you couldn't make bagels either, 159 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:34,839 Speaker 1: could That's kind of like sculpting, isn't it. That's kind 160 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 1: of like potter me. You gotta shape it, your throw 161 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:40,319 Speaker 1: into a kiln, right right, right. It's a little more 162 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:43,680 Speaker 1: forgiving than pottery. But you left up the pottery and 163 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:49,040 Speaker 1: the bagels. Apparently. I was actually a baker's helper once 164 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 1: and I got fired. But when you was signed on 165 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: to that, you like the idea of a food business. Yeah, 166 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: because we didn't know anything about anything. We knew we 167 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 1: liked to eat, and uh, I mean you know when 168 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: you say a food business, Uh, we weren't really thinking 169 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: about a business. For us. It was kind of a 170 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,480 Speaker 1: venture open up a shop, and we thought we would 171 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: do that for a couple of years, and then we 172 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,080 Speaker 1: thought we would try something else. You know. We we 173 00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 1: talked about becoming cross country truck drivers together after that. 174 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: So you know, it's not thank God for all our 175 00:11:22,480 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 1: sakes you do that. We'll be back after this. You 176 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: use you opened the first store in Burlington's Win seven 177 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: and and what was ice cream in America? Then? Well, 178 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:52,199 Speaker 1: ice cream in Burlington was you had the U v M. 179 00:11:52,320 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: Dairy Bar and you had a Sewer's ice cream at 180 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: the bus station in downtown Burlington and that was really 181 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: the only Wasn't that enough? Well the bus station was 182 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: a pretty seedy place at the time. Uh no, uh clear. 183 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: And there was Uptons, the pinball parlor, oh Upton's right. 184 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: Cream also, Now for you to go back, when you 185 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 1: were a child, what was ice cream and your child 186 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 1: were you? Were you an ice cream person? Yeah, we 187 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: always had ice cream in our freezer and we would 188 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: get half gallons from the supermarket and uh it was 189 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: just kind of a staple in our house. Briars. Same 190 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: for you. Well, when I was a kid, because you 191 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: talked about the beginning of the era of the super 192 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:47,560 Speaker 1: premium ice cream, people spending more money for better quality 193 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: ice cream. But when I was a kid, you went 194 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,200 Speaker 1: to Howard Johnson's on the highway in Massive Peak where 195 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: I was from, and they scooped ice cream, which was 196 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: pretty good ice cream. There was carvel. You bought ires 197 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: by the container and took briars home from the supermarket 198 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 1: where you had the vendors and trucks like Mr Softie 199 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: and Good Humor was the big one on when I 200 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: could be at Truck's, you know, patrolling the neighborhood when 201 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: I was a kid. And then we get into the 202 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: era of you know, fruzing glagia and hogging does and 203 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: so forth. When you started making ice cream, did you 204 00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: say to yourself, this is who we are, we're gonna 205 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: make We just wanted to make the best ice cream 206 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: we possibly could and our model was Steve's ice Cream 207 00:13:32,440 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: in uh Summerville, mass What made a good ice he 208 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 1: was He was one of the first homemade ice cream 209 00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:45,679 Speaker 1: parlors on the East Coast. He was making ice cream 210 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: in a five gallon rock salt and ice freezer in 211 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: the window and uh, you know, people were lined up 212 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: around the block. There was a there was a player 213 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: piano on the line. You could, you know, put a 214 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 1: quarter in and make the player piano play and and 215 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,559 Speaker 1: it was great ice cream. He was doing nixings. Uh 216 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: you know, so you'd get a scoop of ice cream, 217 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: you know, vanilla, chocolate, coffee. You say, I want a 218 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,560 Speaker 1: scoopa ice cream and I want heath bars mixed in, 219 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: and they would, right. They were the cold Stone forerunner. 220 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: So in the beginning, what kind of menu did you have? 221 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: Was it basic flavors or were you throwing you know, uh, 222 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: you know, spare parts in there. From the beginning, always 223 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: started with vanilla. We started with chocolate, We started with coffee, 224 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, the real basics. Uh. We Ben had not 225 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: yet flourished as an ice cream creative. I think one 226 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: of the first flavors we came out with that was 227 00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: a real knockout as far as we were concerned was 228 00:14:55,080 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 1: cantaloupe we we made. I mean, it was great ice 229 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: but we don't see that on the menu anymore than 230 00:15:01,320 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: you don't. I mean the reason why you don't see 231 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 1: it on the menu anymore is in order to make 232 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: cantalope ice cream. You need overripe cantalopes, and uh, you know, 233 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: the produce wholesalers in town really liked us because, you know, 234 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 1: we'd call up and we'd say, hey, do you got 235 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: any overripe cantalopes? And they just couldn't wait to get 236 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: rid of the overripe cantalopes. And Jerry would be scooping out, uh, 237 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: you know, the stuff that wasn't rotten, and uh, you know, 238 00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 1: pushing up the overripe. Absolutely avoided the stuff that was rotten. 239 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: I did not use that, and you know, and it 240 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 1: was great. I mean it wasn't It tasted just like 241 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:46,880 Speaker 1: a cantaloupe, except it was creamy and frozen and uh, 242 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 1: but the problem is you can't do it in large 243 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 1: quantities because not everybody would be there, like Jerry, you know, 244 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 1: scooping it out. You know, it's very much a hand operation. 245 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: So you come up with the flavors. You're like Jerry 246 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:06,200 Speaker 1: cut and scoop. Though, well it was more like that 247 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,960 Speaker 1: way with the heath bars. Uh. You know, at the beginning, 248 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: we were buying heath bars that were individually wrapped, and uh, 249 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: Jerry would line them unwrapped and and line them up 250 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: on a cutting board and we had this big two 251 00:16:27,080 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: handled knife. Uh and he would cut him what how 252 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 1: many ways, which which into thirds and then the other way. 253 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: Well it was just thirds. Uh. So we were doing 254 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: this and it was our most popular flavor, and you 255 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: know he was doing it a lot and uh and 256 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: then you know, we hired our first guy who knew 257 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: something about business and who was Cheeko Lager. By the way, 258 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: he uh he uh he cheeko loggerg like beer, logger 259 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: like beer. He name his Cheeko Logger Cheeico Logger. That's 260 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: the fakest name I've ever heard in my life. He 261 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: owned the bar. Uh, this is real name, like Andy Horowitz. 262 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: And if he wants to have one guy with a 263 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: different man Chico Lagger and uh what did? He called 264 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,880 Speaker 1: up the heath bar company and said, you know, we're 265 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 1: using all these heath bars. Can't we buy them unwrapped? 266 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:39,320 Speaker 1: And they said, huh uh, you know we have boxes 267 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 1: and boxes full of all these factory second heath bars 268 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,679 Speaker 1: that you know there's something slightly wrong with and we 269 00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: didn't wrap them. You want those? And he said, yeah, 270 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: I'll take them. And you know it was a great 271 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: deal in terms of money. And you know this guy, 272 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 1: you know, he was an NBA. You know, he does 273 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,120 Speaker 1: his calculations and figures out out the cost of money 274 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: and the interest in all this kind of crap and 275 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:07,720 Speaker 1: ended up ordering like a ton of heath bars. And 276 00:18:07,760 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: he's got him piled up in the office behind his chair. 277 00:18:11,560 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 1: And uh so we had a storm in the freezer 278 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 1: so that they didn't you know, melt or go bad 279 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: or whatever. We had them stored on the top rack 280 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 1: in the pallettes in in this walk in freezer. And 281 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:30,560 Speaker 1: one day somebody went to get the pallette down and 282 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:34,640 Speaker 1: he dropped him on the floor before Jerry could cut 283 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: him up, and then opened we opened up the box 284 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: and they were broken exactly right. And that became the 285 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: new method of breaking up the heath bars. So so 286 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: for months everything Jerry's and the freezer going step back, cheek, 287 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,480 Speaker 1: I tell them already, tell him already, sweep him up. 288 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 1: Let's go. So you open up in burly To and 289 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,439 Speaker 1: it's seventy And when do things start to fizz a 290 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,200 Speaker 1: little bit? When do you think you're onto something? What's 291 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: the sign that you're onto something other than you're scooping, 292 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 1: a lot of slowing down a little before we started fizzing. 293 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: Why it turned into the winter from the summer, and 294 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,080 Speaker 1: that explains why there weren't really many other ice cream 295 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: barlors here in burl at the time. Yeah, what did 296 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: your competitors do during the longer than they close? Well, 297 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 1: you know, Sewards was selling a lot of sandwiches and 298 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: hot doors. You didn't want to do that, no, because 299 00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: that was the sign of an ice cream shop that 300 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: was going out of business. They started to sell all 301 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: this other crap. What do you do? We started to 302 00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: sell all the crap. We were saying discount on broken 303 00:19:54,240 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 1: heath balls, we were selling soups and crepes. Actually, you know, 304 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: Jerry was in charge of the ice cream. I was 305 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: in charge of all the other crap, and we don't 306 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: sell any of that any And you you were deciding 307 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: what that would be. You with a decider of that 308 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: as well, pretty much, I think, I mean we discussed 309 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: it together, but we came up with a great ice 310 00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: cream marketing promotion in the winter. It was called pop 311 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,520 Speaker 1: sid Biswie, which stood for penny off per Celsius degree 312 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: below zero Winter Extravaganza. They all remember it. Everybody remembers 313 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 1: that promotion at then and Jerry's the colder it gets 314 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: the more you say. So, it's a miracle that you're 315 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: up here with me today about your great success. When 316 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,359 Speaker 1: you tell me that acronymic what is it again? Pop 317 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: sid Biswie penny off Percelsius. She had a screwy way 318 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: of selling ice cream. We have TV commercial that had 319 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: pop sid bizwe in it. It put up each letter 320 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: one at a time, BOPCG one. Did you win some 321 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 1: marketing of boards? But you would literally discount purther weather 322 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: and that's what saved you. You think, no, but but 323 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,520 Speaker 1: one of the great things that grew out of that. 324 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: So that was our first winter. We were really struggling, uh, 325 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,639 Speaker 1: and Ben and I said to each other, boy, if 326 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,640 Speaker 1: we're still in business after a year, we'll celebrate by 327 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: giving out free ice cream to everybody. Because we didn't 328 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 1: think we were going to stay in business, and there 329 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,760 Speaker 1: was really not much there. Uh. But we were in 330 00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: business after a year, and that was our first free 331 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:44,280 Speaker 1: cone Day, which still takes place every year. It's around 332 00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 1: the first Tuesday in April. You can get in line 333 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: as many times as you want at any Ben and 334 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: Jerry's shop. And when do really thinks start? When do 335 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: you look at each other and say, we gotta take 336 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: this to another level? We things started getting worse, uh, 337 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,239 Speaker 1: and we said, we're never gonna make it with an 338 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: ice cream shop. We need to find another way to 339 00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: bring in more money. And so we started selling ice 340 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: cream to some local restaurants that had asked for it. 341 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: Ben became our roots salesman. He would go around and 342 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: selling ice cream and then he was passing by all 343 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: these mom and pop stores that he was going by 344 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: delivering ice cream to restaurants, and he thought we should 345 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,320 Speaker 1: package our ice cream into pine containers and he could 346 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,760 Speaker 1: sell it in there. And that is what started the 347 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:39,119 Speaker 1: business going forward. Yeah, there were stores, m and what 348 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: year did that start to take off? I don't know. 349 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: We we don't remember this, okay, okay, I'm just curious 350 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: about when do you do? You mean right now it's 351 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: a I mean, let's not kill ourselves. It's a huge company. 352 00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 1: When did you go public? We went public first just 353 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,919 Speaker 1: within the state of Vermont. Uh. The idea was to 354 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:04,200 Speaker 1: make the community the shareholders of the business. Uh. We had, 355 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, a bunch of venture capitalists that were approaching 356 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: us saying they wanted to invest in the business, and 357 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: we said, no, we don't want to do it that way. 358 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 1: We want to use this need for cash as an 359 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,479 Speaker 1: opportunity to make the community the owners of the business. 360 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 1: Worked out great. We sold out the offering. It was 361 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: the first ever in state public stock offering, and you know, 362 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: a lot of people bought stock and happily the stock 363 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: went up. A lot of people made a bunch of money. 364 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:43,720 Speaker 1: People's kids went to college on manager's stock. What was 365 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,800 Speaker 1: unique about that was there was a very low minimum purchase. 366 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,159 Speaker 1: There was a hundred and twenty six dollars. So it 367 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 1: was not aimed at sophisticated investors. It was aimed at everybody. 368 00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: So the Vermont offering was in eighty four, and then 369 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: we had a public offering nationally in ninety eight five, 370 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:03,919 Speaker 1: and then you sell the company to Uni Lever in 371 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: two thousand. The company got sold. The company got to 372 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 1: keep it independent. You did, you did explain to people 373 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: how that works. Mean you have a board and uh, 374 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: I mean, I just would assume a company named Ben 375 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,400 Speaker 1: and Jerry, and Ben and Jerry are alive, and I'm 376 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: assuming that they're involved they're calling the shots. How does 377 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: a company get sold by your board if you don't 378 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:26,800 Speaker 1: want it to get sold to you, a Leaver? How 379 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: did that work out? I mean, in the end you 380 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: said that we have when things with you to Lever 381 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,639 Speaker 1: A fine, it worked out well, But how did it 382 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: get sold? Uh? There was a CEO who was running 383 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,000 Speaker 1: the company at the time who um saw way for 384 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: him to make a bunch of money by selling the company, 385 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:49,359 Speaker 1: and uh, you Lever was courting him. They were courting 386 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 1: each other, I think, and so Uni Leaver ended up 387 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,800 Speaker 1: offering so much money for the stock, so much above 388 00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,520 Speaker 1: what the price that it was trading at, that the 389 00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:07,959 Speaker 1: board had no choice legally but to recommend uh sale. Right. 390 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:14,640 Speaker 1: Do they have other ice cream popsicle briars Klondike, Uh, 391 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: Magnum magnum, tlenty tolenty go. They're a very big ice 392 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:28,040 Speaker 1: cream every shelf of the freezer case. If you like 393 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: ice cream, you've probably already heard this one. But there's 394 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: no better ice cream conversation in our archives than with BARBERA. 395 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: Streisand I would have my kind of coffee ice cream 396 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: briars and sit in my bed and dream, go to 397 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: the movie. Sometimes on a Saturday afternoon the Lowis Kings. 398 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: We had the greatest ice cream and we also, yeah, 399 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: you're you're, you're like me. Somebody'll say what was the 400 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:57,199 Speaker 1: best part of the summer, I'd say, what is this 401 00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 1: restaurant that has the best coffee ice cream with chocolate 402 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: covered Hanzel notes the rest of that interview and many 403 00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 1: more that Here's the Thing dot org when we come back, 404 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: the skinny on Ben and Jerry's rolls at the company 405 00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: after it was brought out by Unilever and the real 406 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 1: story behind Cherry Garcia. I'm Alec Baldwin and you were 407 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing Now more of my interview 408 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: with the tycoons of Truffle Kerfuffle, Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield. 409 00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: The company they founded was acquired by Dutch conglomerate Unilever 410 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: in two thousands. You're not involved. They run the company. 411 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 1: You're you're not on the board. What's that like for 412 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,199 Speaker 1: you that your name is on it? Like, like I 413 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: wonder is you're still walking down the street and people 414 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,719 Speaker 1: are saying I got a flavor for you, and they 415 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: still think you're the pipeline, You're the conduit, uh for 416 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: the record. We love it when people come up and say, 417 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: I've got a flavor for you that we want that kay. 418 00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: I was once that an event and these these two 419 00:27:13,359 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: women came up to me and they said, you know 420 00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:20,680 Speaker 1: how you know girlfriends are always bringing over a pine 421 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: of Ben and Jerry's to their friend who just broke 422 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,600 Speaker 1: up with their boyfriend to kind of soothe them. Well, 423 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: we think you should come out with a flavor that's 424 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: in a pink container called you can do Better Scotch. 425 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: Keep up, and I keep on telling the company, this 426 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,399 Speaker 1: is a winner. You should come out with this. I 427 00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: mean coffee ice cream with a butter Scotch ripple. I mean, 428 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,159 Speaker 1: this is incredible flavor. They say, oh, we got a 429 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:06,159 Speaker 1: flavor department. Go back then, go go go go do 430 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: whatever it did you do? That's what they say. What 431 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:13,920 Speaker 1: can I say? You know, it's one thing to enter 432 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: a business because I have no business sense at all. 433 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,920 Speaker 1: I mean, I have zero business sense. You know, when 434 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: people talk about ice cream, it's you know, a handful 435 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: of flavors of which you're at the top of the pile, 436 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: and I'm I'm I want to congratulate you. And it's 437 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,879 Speaker 1: just amazing to have done that, you know, to have 438 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: built a business and then that successful. You know, we 439 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: had a saying Jerry and I, it's easy to make 440 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: it lousy, it's hard to make it right. It's really 441 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: hard to shove that chocolate chip cookie dough into the 442 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,360 Speaker 1: pints of ice cream so that each point gets the 443 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: right amount of chocolate chip cookie dough. You know, we 444 00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 1: used to slice open point containers four ways and to 445 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:05,520 Speaker 1: force actions to inspect, uh, the number of chunks of 446 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: cookie dough that ended up in each section. And then 447 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: in complex flavors like heath Bar Crunch or New York Superfudge, 448 00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: not only were you counting the number of chunks of 449 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: heath Bar, but you were counting three different size variations 450 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 1: that all had to appear right. I mean, there's a 451 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: reason why nobody else was making ice cream like this. 452 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:34,239 Speaker 1: It doesn't really go through the machinery that easily. You know, 453 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 1: there's nothing easier to make than a homogenious liquid or 454 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: semi liquid like mayonnaise. How many facilities do you have 455 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: around the country to make ice cream like plants that 456 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,560 Speaker 1: manufactured the ice cream, Well, there's two here in Vermont, 457 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: there's one in Nevada. You think that's it. It's pretty 458 00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:56,320 Speaker 1: much refrigerator truck and truck it all around the country. Yeah, 459 00:29:56,360 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: in the country, and then there's another plant in the Netherlands. 460 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. And that's about the whole thing, right, Ain't 461 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: nothing else. Uh, we're not really part. You're supposed to know, Jerry, 462 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: he makes the flavors. You count the money, Jerry, what's 463 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 1: going on? Well, I think this just goes to show 464 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,000 Speaker 1: that Ben and I are not really on top of things. 465 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: I mean, now, when you license, I'm assuming there's a 466 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,520 Speaker 1: licensing involved. What's the first signature flavor you come up with? 467 00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,719 Speaker 1: The first one unusual when we came up with was 468 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: Oreo Mint Oreo Mint, and you gotta cut a deal 469 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: with Oreo. Well we didn't. And then we got a 470 00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 1: letter from uh Nibisco, which owns Oreo, and it was 471 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: a really nice stationary that it was, and that they 472 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: explained that Oreo is their most valuable trademark and they 473 00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: will go to the ends of the earth to defend 474 00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: and there's trademark and under no circumstances could we call 475 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: our ice cream Oreo mint. However, we could call it 476 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: mint with Oreos. So we said okay, and we changed 477 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 1: the packaging and they were fine, and then you know 478 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:22,560 Speaker 1: about I don't know, five or eight years later, we 479 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: got another letter from the legal department at NIBISCO which 480 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: began by saying, Oreo is their most valuable trademark. They 481 00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:36,479 Speaker 1: will go to the ends of the earth to defend it, 482 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: and under no circumstances could we pluralize their trademark. You 483 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: may not call your ice cream mint with Oreos, you 484 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:53,479 Speaker 1: may call it mint with Oreo cookies. So, you know, 485 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:58,720 Speaker 1: we changed the packaging again and didn't hear from them 486 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: until I started doing this online demonstration demonstrating the size 487 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: of the Pentagon budget in relationship to the education budget 488 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: and the healthcare budget and the alternative energy budget, et cetera, 489 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,320 Speaker 1: using stacks of Oreo cookies. Each Oreo cookie would equal 490 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: ten billion dollars. So I'd come out with this, you know, 491 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: huge stack representing the Pentagon, and then you had this 492 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:35,480 Speaker 1: least little little stacks research and we got another letter 493 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: from the Labor Department of Oreos UH saying, far be 494 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: it from us to abridge your First Amendment rights of 495 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: free speech. But we're getting a lot of complaints from 496 00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: our shareholders that the Nibisco company agrees with the point 497 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 1: you're trying to make about the excessive Pentagon budget. Could 498 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,680 Speaker 1: you please refrain from doing that? You know, I felt 499 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 1: that wasn't right. But it's their cookie company, right, it 500 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: is their cookie company. But you see these advertisements where 501 00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: they're talking about some competitor and they're calling the competitor 502 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:15,520 Speaker 1: by brand name, And so I talked to a trademark lawyer, 503 00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: and uh, I said, what's the story here, and they said, 504 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,880 Speaker 1: you can use a competitor's name as long as there's 505 00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 1: no other product that will do to make the point 506 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: you're trying to make. So I wrote him a letter 507 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: back saying, look, I've researched every other chocolate sandwich cookie 508 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 1: and no other chocolate sandwich cookie has OREOS high quality standards, 509 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:53,280 Speaker 1: and that in other chocolate sandwich cookies, the amount of 510 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,640 Speaker 1: white stuff in the middle tends to vary from cookie 511 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,760 Speaker 1: to cookie. And I'm sure they can understand how in 512 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: my demonstration each cookie equaling ten billion dollars, it was 513 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: off by just a little and I never heard from 514 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 1: them again. You can't take on the Pentagon using HI cookie. 515 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,319 Speaker 1: That's that's not gonna work. So did you learn a 516 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,080 Speaker 1: profound lesson from your dealings with Nibisco, and you went 517 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,960 Speaker 1: on to do other flavor Cherry Garcia. Obviously, when you 518 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: did other signature brands like that, did you get into 519 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,360 Speaker 1: more or did you get letters from a dear Mr Cohen, 520 00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 1: the estate of Mr. Garcia would like to make it 521 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 1: known to you in regards to Cherry Garcia, it was 522 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: a flavor that one of our fans came up with. 523 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: They wrote us an anonymous postcard saying dead paraphernalia always sells, 524 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: So you know, it took me a long time, what 525 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 1: over a year to come up with a flavor that 526 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:01,120 Speaker 1: was deserving of honoring this guy. What I don't remember 527 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:06,279 Speaker 1: you was he alive when it happened? He was? Did 528 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:13,360 Speaker 1: he acknowledge what you did? Well? His lawyer did you know? 529 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:18,600 Speaker 1: He was like, you know, Uh, We sent him the 530 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: first point off the line. We overnighted it on dry ice, 531 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,359 Speaker 1: and his wife called up and said, you know, he 532 00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,680 Speaker 1: can't have any right now because he's in the hospital 533 00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:36,799 Speaker 1: and diabetic coma, but I really liked the flavor. And 534 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: then a few months later we got a call from 535 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:47,719 Speaker 1: his lawyer, whose name happens to be how can't. Uh 536 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 1: he said, uh, you know, yeah, it's a really good flavor. 537 00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,319 Speaker 1: But we think Jerry's entitled to a little piece of 538 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: the action here, and we gave him. We gave him 539 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,880 Speaker 1: a little piece of the and now is a state 540 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:04,840 Speaker 1: occasionally argues over who pick up the little piece of 541 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 1: the action. But you've been politically engaged your entire life, 542 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 1: not so much, you know. I think it's uh, it's 543 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,120 Speaker 1: more after I moved to Vermont. What happened when you 544 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:20,400 Speaker 1: moved to Vermont. Part of it was having gone to college. 545 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: I went to college during the late sixties and early seventies. 546 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: There are a lot of social movements going on at 547 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: the time. And soon thereafter I came to Vermont, which, uh, 548 00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's just a wonderfully community oriented state. You 549 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: can go talk to your legislators in mont Pelier. I 550 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: mean it's it's it's very down home and there's a 551 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: lot of grassroots activism here. And so I've become very 552 00:36:48,360 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 1: supportive of the Progressive Party in Vermont. There's a it's 553 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: a third party here in Vermont. Uh. And you know, 554 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: plus there's Bernie h and there there is there is 555 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,920 Speaker 1: nobody like Bernie Ben and I were surrogates for Bernie 556 00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 1: in in the last presidential primary. UH. And you know 557 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,960 Speaker 1: what's among the amazing things about Bernie, besides what he's 558 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:24,479 Speaker 1: been fighting for for his whole political career, is that 559 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,480 Speaker 1: he is not for sale. And you do do not 560 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:38,919 Speaker 1: find people in the political world with that level of integrity. 561 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: And what about a year junior high in high school, 562 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to go uh down South with the Freedom Writers, 563 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: and my parents wouldn't let me so. Again during that 564 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,320 Speaker 1: same period of time, I grew up on Long Island. 565 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,719 Speaker 1: My parents would every once in a while drive into 566 00:38:01,719 --> 00:38:04,320 Speaker 1: New York City and we would drive over the Triboro 567 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: Bridge and you get let off a street and on 568 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:16,520 Speaker 1: one side of the street there's dilapidated housing and people 569 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: living in poverty, and on the other side there's people 570 00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:25,160 Speaker 1: living in wealth. And it didn't seem right to me, 571 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,759 Speaker 1: and that affected me quite a bit. I think it 572 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:36,399 Speaker 1: was Desmond Tutu who said that, Uh, in situations of injustice, 573 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: you cannot be neutral. If an elephant is standing on 574 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 1: the tail of a mouse, you can say you're neutral, 575 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: but the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality. When being 576 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,200 Speaker 1: confronted with injustice, you have. You know, you have three choices. 577 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 1: You can either ignore it, you can complain about it, 578 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:03,719 Speaker 1: or you can do something about it. Did you guys 579 00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:05,640 Speaker 1: set up a charitable foundation for the company or do 580 00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: you guys have your own foundation that you funnel money 581 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,320 Speaker 1: into from individually or from the company. What's the mission? 582 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,919 Speaker 1: What do you target? You're mostly income disparity, the arts. 583 00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,239 Speaker 1: What are you doing well so for for the Ben 584 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:24,000 Speaker 1: and Jerry's foundation. Uh, it's social justice and grassroots organizing 585 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: for that. And and the interesting thing about the foundation 586 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:30,560 Speaker 1: at the company is that the final decisions about where 587 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: the money goes is done by employees who volunteer their 588 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 1: time to make those decisions. And uh, they are remarkable, 589 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 1: they do an incredible job. But I think what's important 590 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 1: to understand is that, uh, you know, the major effect 591 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,200 Speaker 1: that Ben Injuries has and the major contribution that Ben 592 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:55,560 Speaker 1: Injuries has to society is not about the foundations. It's 593 00:39:55,600 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: not about donating money. It's about integrating those social concerns 594 00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: into our day to day business activities and using the 595 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,760 Speaker 1: businesses voice. So going back to the public sale Invermonts, 596 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: certainly that and I'm also talking about uh speaking out 597 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,000 Speaker 1: on social and political issues, and we're gonna get to 598 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:25,439 Speaker 1: campaign finance reform and protest about you know, all kinds 599 00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:28,800 Speaker 1: of things that are worrisome in this country that people 600 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 1: have been led to believe it's ineffective, and it is 601 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,240 Speaker 1: not ineffective. If you see something wrong in this country, 602 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 1: you need to scream as loud as you possibly can. 603 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:42,200 Speaker 1: You've got to protest, you've got to demonstrate, you've got 604 00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: to get active. It's the patriotic thing to do. They're 605 00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:47,840 Speaker 1: they're they're working for you. I'm in a room with 606 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,960 Speaker 1: congressmen and senators and I'm gonna I'm looknna like you know, 607 00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,480 Speaker 1: you're on the clock, buddy. Campaign finance reform, and it's 608 00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: the lynch pin at every problem with oursel. How did 609 00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,239 Speaker 1: you get involved with that issue? I was working for 610 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 1: a long time on shifting a bunch of priorities from 611 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: the Pentagon to social needs and didn't get anywhere. I 612 00:41:09,680 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 1: think a lot of that reason was because of so 613 00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:16,840 Speaker 1: many defense contractor political donations, So that was one factor. 614 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,720 Speaker 1: And then I was Jerry and I were both active 615 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:23,440 Speaker 1: in the Occupy Wall Street movement. Originally it was laser 616 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,600 Speaker 1: focused on economic disparity, but as it started broadening and 617 00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:33,319 Speaker 1: everybody who was protesting whatever came into that movement. The 618 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,839 Speaker 1: message starters to get garbled, and I felt like it 619 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: was important to focus and the the common denominator between 620 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:46,440 Speaker 1: health care and issues of the environment and energy independence 621 00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: in Wall Street banks, the common denominator was money in 622 00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:56,080 Speaker 1: politics that uh, you know, all these corporations and high 623 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: high wealth individuals are paying Congress is not to pass 624 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:06,720 Speaker 1: laws that protect people, but to press laws that protect corporations. 625 00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: So I got into working to get money out of politics. 626 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: You see, the tax cut to put more money into 627 00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,760 Speaker 1: the bank accounts of a class of people, typically Goop supporters, 628 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:20,760 Speaker 1: who uh and if it's if it's a significant amount 629 00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: of money for these people, you see, we're Kushner paid 630 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,080 Speaker 1: no taxes all these years. And the Democrats I want 631 00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: to win the midterms because because I want to see 632 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,160 Speaker 1: Trump's tax returns. You know, they announced they're gonna get 633 00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,040 Speaker 1: his through their hands on his tax returns, and uh, 634 00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: that will be thrilling, that'll be okay, okay, um. But uh, 635 00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:44,520 Speaker 1: we have some I mean, we just have some mind 636 00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,760 Speaker 1: blowing questions from the audience. They're really just great questions. 637 00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: Someone actually wrote down, they wrote vanilla or chocolate. No, no, no, no, 638 00:42:57,040 --> 00:42:59,680 Speaker 1: that was that wasn't a question. We went over some 639 00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,719 Speaker 1: of the backstage to see which ones they have not 640 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: been asked, you know, fifty billion times before. But I 641 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:06,840 Speaker 1: love this one, which is what's and you hold your answer? 642 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: You actually you go first. You go first, because I 643 00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,759 Speaker 1: know your answer. What's the longest you've ever gone without 644 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:16,239 Speaker 1: eating ice cream? I have gone months without eating ice cream. 645 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 1: I would probably say two or three months. You've gone 646 00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:25,239 Speaker 1: two or three months, and then what happens and they 647 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: find you in a pile the I'm I'm a feaister 648 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,880 Speaker 1: famine kind of. I have a freezer at home that's 649 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:40,480 Speaker 1: got a couple of hundred points in there, several gallons. Yeah, 650 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:45,000 Speaker 1: because you never know when someone's gonna drop by your 651 00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: house and you didn't have any ice cream there, I 652 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 1: would beat the crap at it. I mean, this guy 653 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,439 Speaker 1: says he's gone several months. All I know is that 654 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,839 Speaker 1: every once in a while he comes to me kind 655 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:05,319 Speaker 1: of sheepishly, he says, two points less. Night. We were 656 00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,120 Speaker 1: a very very self disclosing backstage about our ice cream. 657 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:11,680 Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, what's the worst sound in the world. 658 00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:18,960 Speaker 1: That spoon scrape in the bottom. I didn't even at 659 00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,080 Speaker 1: the height of my ice cream addiction. I'd be sitting 660 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,399 Speaker 1: I was divorced, I'm living by myself, I'm miserable, and 661 00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:26,799 Speaker 1: what's better medicine than a pint of ice cream? And 662 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,520 Speaker 1: I'd be sitting there watching CNN, and I'd be like, 663 00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,279 Speaker 1: I know, nine o'clock, it's almost ten o'clock. I mean, also, 664 00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,799 Speaker 1: I hear that scrape in said, I'd be like that, 665 00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,240 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, I didn't eat that whole thing myself. 666 00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:42,280 Speaker 1: That's not possible. What's the longest you ever went without 667 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: ice cream? A couple of weeks? Maybe one week? Speaking 668 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:55,840 Speaker 1: of speaking of getting screwed, And I really probably should 669 00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:58,279 Speaker 1: come up with a question that's not unkind of Republicans 670 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,799 Speaker 1: applauding the house of your Republican if you're a Republicans, 671 00:45:04,040 --> 00:45:08,080 Speaker 1: applaud if you're Republican. We have four Republicans in this 672 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:14,040 Speaker 1: com I love this town, I love this time. There's 673 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:20,640 Speaker 1: four Republicans here. What do we do if the Democrats 674 00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:25,319 Speaker 1: don't take control? What are we gonna do? You know, 675 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:34,360 Speaker 1: I have a new life philosophy. Lower your expectations, but 676 00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:40,320 Speaker 1: assume the best it's a fine line, and I'm assuming 677 00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 1: the best. I think we've already lowered our expectations. M 678 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:58,520 Speaker 1: hm as no, there's they can possibly go. Okay, how 679 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 1: do you learn to stick to your lips out? Like? 680 00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 1: I mean? Do you do exercises? It's funny you say that. 681 00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:06,759 Speaker 1: They came to me and they said do I was 682 00:46:06,800 --> 00:46:08,239 Speaker 1: gonna do a movie and they said, do you want 683 00:46:08,239 --> 00:46:10,640 Speaker 1: to play Trump? Lauren called me, Laurence, my dear friends, 684 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: you might play Trump. I said, are you? Why do 685 00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:14,600 Speaker 1: you freaking mind? I don't want to play Trump? I said, 686 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,439 Speaker 1: who the hell wants to do that? I was gonna 687 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: go do a movie. Then the movie fell apart, and 688 00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:19,920 Speaker 1: I called up. When I go, all right, I'll come 689 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:22,560 Speaker 1: to Trump. He's like, and literally the joke is he goes, 690 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 1: it's three shows. We're to do three shows before the election. 691 00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:30,759 Speaker 1: And then he's gone, it's gonna be fine, it's good, 692 00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: big Red. So I'm like, all right, what the hell? 693 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,400 Speaker 1: I do it for three shows? And then they and 694 00:46:35,440 --> 00:46:38,400 Speaker 1: then um and I said to myself for the cold opening, 695 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,360 Speaker 1: it's fast, it's brassy, we're firing the canon. It's in 696 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,200 Speaker 1: front of a live audience. Even though we're on TV. 697 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 1: It's it's like, I want to make this, in one sense, 698 00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:51,279 Speaker 1: as two dimensional as the man himself is. And and 699 00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,799 Speaker 1: so I said to myself, you have to raise your 700 00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:58,359 Speaker 1: left eyebrow like this, and then sometimes try to stick 701 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:00,239 Speaker 1: your mouth at as far as you can, like trying 702 00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 1: to suck the windshield out of a car, and just 703 00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:12,800 Speaker 1: make it completely stupid. I mean to make it silly 704 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:14,960 Speaker 1: and stupid, because it's not you know, if we did 705 00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,479 Speaker 1: the really finely etched one, that's a David Fincher movie. 706 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:20,799 Speaker 1: So we're not gonna be doing that. Um. Who do 707 00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:26,080 Speaker 1: you think of the Democrat that can beat Donald Trump? Bernie? 708 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,080 Speaker 1: It is he drives a loyal you're tuning your burn, Bernie, 709 00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,560 Speaker 1: Well you guys or something else? Now? I love this question. 710 00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: How do you feel Ben and Jerry's has shaped the 711 00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:44,080 Speaker 1: culture of Vermont? You know, I think before Ben and Jerry's, 712 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: Vermont was pretty much known from maple syrup. Interestingly enough, 713 00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:53,120 Speaker 1: I think after Ben and Jerry's, I think they're started 714 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:59,080 Speaker 1: to be all these other specialty food companies, great cheese companies. 715 00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:06,880 Speaker 1: The name Vermont came to stand for really high quality 716 00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:17,160 Speaker 1: specialty food products. I think Vermont is UH is known 717 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,840 Speaker 1: as entrepreneurial partly as a result of Ben and Jerry's 718 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,560 Speaker 1: I think because of many things, including Bernie Sanders Romana 719 00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:31,399 Speaker 1: seen as progressive and and one of the remarkable things 720 00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:35,960 Speaker 1: about Ben and Jerry's UH is that even after it 721 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,800 Speaker 1: was sold to this giant multinational, and even after Ben 722 00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:43,360 Speaker 1: and I have nothing to do with the company, the 723 00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: company continues to be incredibly outspoken about really serious issues 724 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: like it's publicly supported Black Lives Matter, it's publicly supported 725 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:59,759 Speaker 1: gay marriage. UH, it's publicly supported Occupy Wall Street, which 726 00:48:59,840 --> 00:49:05,920 Speaker 1: is essentially an anti corporate thing. And what's so wonderful 727 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,200 Speaker 1: about it is Ben and I have nothing to do 728 00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:11,840 Speaker 1: with that. It's it's the company itself and the value. 729 00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:17,839 Speaker 1: You know, it's about the people. You can say all 730 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,760 Speaker 1: you want about agreements and whatever. It's about the people 731 00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:27,280 Speaker 1: involved and and the people at the company are incredible. UM. 732 00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:33,640 Speaker 1: That's great. Um. The last question I have in a 733 00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,719 Speaker 1: comment is that your wife is a like, oh yeah, 734 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:40,520 Speaker 1: and did that play an important role in your success? 735 00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:42,920 Speaker 1: I just had this image of like you in bed 736 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,680 Speaker 1: with your wife, you're in the kitchen table, like then 737 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:53,960 Speaker 1: you call Jerry him you're sorry. I called Ben this 738 00:49:54,040 --> 00:50:00,080 Speaker 1: morning just to say hello, and then he called me 739 00:50:00,160 --> 00:50:10,319 Speaker 1: this afternoon to ask what are you wearing tonight? And 740 00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:14,680 Speaker 1: I said, you know, I'm gonna be wearing a button 741 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:19,080 Speaker 1: down shirt and uh, some jeans, and he said, oh, 742 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,640 Speaker 1: I was going to wear a jacket and I said, no, 743 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,560 Speaker 1: we can just be ourselves, I mean, you know. And 744 00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,320 Speaker 1: then I proceeded to get dressed up in my button 745 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,600 Speaker 1: down shirt in my jeans, and my my dear wife said, 746 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:39,920 Speaker 1: you're not gonna go like that. So I said, okay, 747 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,840 Speaker 1: you want the jacket and she said, yeah, that's a 748 00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:48,640 Speaker 1: lot better. So I had to call Jerry up and say, no, Well, 749 00:50:48,719 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: let me just say that, you know, I think it's 750 00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,040 Speaker 1: amazing to sit with the two of you, who a 751 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:57,000 Speaker 1: are synonymous with a with a product that people really 752 00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: enjoy and love. I mean, who doesn't love ice cream, 753 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:02,840 Speaker 1: and be your incredible friendship, I mean learning about you 754 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,360 Speaker 1: in some more detail about what a great friendship you've had, 755 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,439 Speaker 1: but also what great citizens the two of you are 756 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:14,480 Speaker 1: and what you've done with this company. Crowd credible serf 757 00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:28,400 Speaker 1: Ben and Jerry Ben Cohen and Jerry Greenfield. They invented 758 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:32,200 Speaker 1: cookie dough ice cream, heath bar crunch, and many many more. 759 00:51:32,800 --> 00:51:36,960 Speaker 1: But one flavor they didn't invent is s'mores. That one 760 00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,359 Speaker 1: comes to us from the fevered imagination of a man 761 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,960 Speaker 1: who might sound familiar to Here's the Thing listeners, our 762 00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,920 Speaker 1: engineer Zach McNeice and his mother Sandra. They submitted the 763 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:54,440 Speaker 1: idea of s'more's ice cream to Ben and Jerry's. Now 764 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,600 Speaker 1: every year hundreds of coupons for free pints arrive in 765 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:03,399 Speaker 1: the mail from Vermont. Nobody asks, they just come. Ben 766 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,640 Speaker 1: and Jerry are men of their word in commerce, as 767 00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,400 Speaker 1: in friendship. I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing as a 768 00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:14,359 Speaker 1: production of w n y C Studios technical production by 769 00:52:14,480 --> 00:52:19,120 Speaker 1: Zach Smore's McNeese. Thanks this week to Vermont Public Radio.