1
00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:13,600
Speaker 1: Welcome to Zone seven, y'all. Tonight is going to be

2
00:00:13,640 --> 00:00:17,799
Speaker 1: a conversation. You know, when I think of my Zone

3
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,239
Speaker 1: seven and I think about people that I've known throughout

4
00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:24,520
Speaker 1: my career, it is not without some hiccups.

5
00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,120
Speaker 2: It's not without some situations that we wish would have

6
00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:27,880
Speaker 2: never happened.

7
00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:35,479
Speaker 1: But ultimately it is what you do within those situations,

8
00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,320
Speaker 1: and that's what tonight is about. Welcome to Zone seven.

9
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,159
Speaker 1: Victor Hill, Sir, how are you.

10
00:00:43,640 --> 00:00:44,839
Speaker 3: I'm doing great? How about you?

11
00:00:45,080 --> 00:00:48,760
Speaker 1: Erh, I am doing good. This conversation is overdue for

12
00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:52,600
Speaker 1: Zone seven in my opinion, Yes, and I appreciate.

13
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:53,960
Speaker 3: You, appreciate you having me.

14
00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,000
Speaker 1: The last time I saw you in person, I had

15
00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:02,319
Speaker 1: responded to a bank robbery and the suspect lived and

16
00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:07,560
Speaker 1: fled to Clayton County. And when we called you and

17
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: told you where he was and that we were going

18
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,000
Speaker 1: to come get him, OI, did.

19
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:13,640
Speaker 2: You show up.

20
00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 1: You got your viper squad out, you got your fugitive

21
00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 1: squad out, and you showed up personally. And I know

22
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,600
Speaker 1: we were all so grateful by that show of support

23
00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,600
Speaker 1: and force because we didn't know what we might be

24
00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 1: met with. So that's the last time I saw you.

25
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:33,679
Speaker 2: Do you remember that?

26
00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:35,120
Speaker 3: I do? I do?

27
00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:41,120
Speaker 1: You showed up in that slick tricked out Z twenty

28
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:44,280
Speaker 1: eight baby, and I remember asking you if you wanted

29
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:47,720
Speaker 1: to swap with my eighteen fifty.

30
00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:48,640
Speaker 2: Whatever it was.

31
00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was one of my favorites.

32
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 1: That was a beautiful car. I remember thinking that car

33
00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:00,080
Speaker 1: looks so good. I wish I could come and dear it.

34
00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 4: Yep, one of my favorites. The Black Fantom was his name.

35
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:05,200
Speaker 2: I love that even more.

36
00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,200
Speaker 1: I didn't know that, but I will tell you after

37
00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:12,600
Speaker 1: that response, you gave several of the folks in the

38
00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:19,280
Speaker 1: CID coins and on the coin was Thattman like the wings.

39
00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:21,680
Speaker 2: And it looks so good.

40
00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,160
Speaker 1: I mean that as a challenge coin goes, that's going

41
00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:25,040
Speaker 1: to get your attention.

42
00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:28,120
Speaker 2: And I heard a.

43
00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,919
Speaker 1: Lot of people had something to say about that coin

44
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,560
Speaker 1: and saying it was connected to your.

45
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,200
Speaker 2: Ego, but I know that's not the case.

46
00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 1: Would you tell people why that man was significant to

47
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,200
Speaker 1: you and it has something to do with a childhood friend.

48
00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:45,360
Speaker 3: Sure?

49
00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,560
Speaker 4: Well, First let me say this. My staff actually designed

50
00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,800
Speaker 4: that challenge coin. They told me, Sheriff, we'd like to

51
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 4: do a challenge coin, and I was like, yeah, we

52
00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,200
Speaker 4: don't have one, that's fine. And then when they came

53
00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,360
Speaker 4: up with the coin, it was a surprise and they

54
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,840
Speaker 4: showed it to me and it had to batsymble on

55
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,360
Speaker 4: it because I'm often associated with Batman, so I can't

56
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:07,239
Speaker 4: take credit for that coin. It's a beautiful coin, but

57
00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,000
Speaker 4: I didn't design it, and it wasn't my idea. It

58
00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:13,800
Speaker 4: was actually my staff, and I think they really really

59
00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,280
Speaker 4: made one of the most unique challenge coins and law

60
00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,400
Speaker 4: enforcement I've ever seen, and I was proud that it

61
00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,720
Speaker 4: came from my agency and appreciated what they did.

62
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,480
Speaker 3: But you know, the Batman thing.

63
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,040
Speaker 4: As a child, I was an avid comic book reader.

64
00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:32,560
Speaker 4: When I became a teenager, I didn't really pay much

65
00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,920
Speaker 4: attention to Batman or The Dark Knight because, you know,

66
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 4: there was a show that Adam West had and that's

67
00:03:41,320 --> 00:03:42,920
Speaker 4: all I really knew about him. I thought it was

68
00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,240
Speaker 4: a kiddy character, and I thought it was a character,

69
00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,960
Speaker 4: you know, mostly for kids, and I think we all

70
00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,280
Speaker 4: remember that show, and it was a good show for kids,

71
00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 4: but you know, especially if you're in kindergarten, it was

72
00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:55,400
Speaker 4: kind of corny. I didn't realize there was an actual

73
00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,160
Speaker 4: serious version of Batman, and one day, I was looking

74
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 4: through a comic book and I saw a comic book

75
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,480
Speaker 4: that caught my attention. It was kind of grim and

76
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,280
Speaker 4: it's kind of onymous, and it referred to him as

77
00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:10,160
Speaker 4: a dark Knight. And when I read it, it was very,

78
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:14,640
Speaker 4: very fascinating, and it wasn't the best of stories. I mean,

79
00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:17,479
Speaker 4: he was a kid that saw his parents gun down

80
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 4: in front of his eyes. Would a botched robbery, and

81
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,040
Speaker 4: that's something that kids shouldn't see. And of course that's

82
00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,240
Speaker 4: how he was born. That's how he decided that he

83
00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,080
Speaker 4: would fight crime, that he would not only find who

84
00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:33,479
Speaker 4: killed his parents, but that he would go after all

85
00:04:33,560 --> 00:04:37,320
Speaker 4: people who commit murder. And you know, murder is the

86
00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,599
Speaker 4: ultimate theft. It's the theft for which there can be

87
00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,760
Speaker 4: no restitution. There's no way you can give restitution to

88
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,560
Speaker 4: the victims of a murder. So I always thought it

89
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,320
Speaker 4: was interesting story that I became an avid reader of

90
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:53,400
Speaker 4: that comic book from that moment on. Well, as we know,

91
00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 4: sometimes art imitates life and life imitates art, and my

92
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,440
Speaker 4: teenage cheers. There was a friend that I'd known ever

93
00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:09,720
Speaker 4: since elementary school and they disappeared, and ironically, their body

94
00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,240
Speaker 4: was found found behind that same store that I read

95
00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,000
Speaker 4: that comic book in. And it wasn't a it was

96
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,400
Speaker 4: very grisly murdered. It was mutilation involved.

97
00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:20,719
Speaker 3: I raped this.

98
00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:25,280
Speaker 4: Memberment of one particular part of that person's body. And

99
00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,239
Speaker 4: where I'm from, that's just not the norm. That's nothing

100
00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:33,040
Speaker 4: you hear about often. I'm from Charleston, South Carolina, and

101
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,880
Speaker 4: I grew up on a park called Jeans Island, which

102
00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:38,760
Speaker 4: is actually a real island, and that was just unheard

103
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,039
Speaker 4: of in a grypted community with fear. And there was

104
00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 4: this famous well I say he's famous.

105
00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:45,960
Speaker 3: He was well known to us.

106
00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:49,240
Speaker 4: He was a homicide detective, well decorated, and he saw

107
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:52,240
Speaker 4: that murder and it meant a lot. He end up

108
00:05:52,279 --> 00:05:56,159
Speaker 4: becoming my mentor, and really that's how my crime fighting

109
00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:01,200
Speaker 4: career started. I knew then that I definitely was going

110
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,919
Speaker 4: to become a cop, and I knew what kind of

111
00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:05,520
Speaker 4: cop I was going to be, and I knew that

112
00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,800
Speaker 4: I wanted to go after those type of people, people

113
00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,799
Speaker 4: who perform the ultimate theft, which is taking someone else's life.

114
00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: And you know, there's another connection that we have speaking

115
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,360
Speaker 1: of that. I was in the DA's office and I

116
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,400
Speaker 1: was the law enforcement trainer and I was pregnant with

117
00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,760
Speaker 1: my first child, and my real good friend, Deborah Burke

118
00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:30,640
Speaker 1: called me and she said, Hey, you're not going to

119
00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,599
Speaker 1: believe this. Our buddy is going to run for sheriff

120
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,320
Speaker 1: and I think he's going to win it.

121
00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:36,880
Speaker 2: And when he wins it, he.

122
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,040
Speaker 1: Wants you to come over and do training. And the

123
00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 1: great part is you're going to be able to work

124
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,120
Speaker 1: from home and only come in on the days that

125
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:49,479
Speaker 1: we're hosting a training. And I remember thinking, that is

126
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 1: going to be unbelievable, you know, having your first child

127
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,840
Speaker 1: and not having to leave home five days a week,

128
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,560
Speaker 1: not having to be on call, not having to you know,

129
00:06:58,600 --> 00:06:59,760
Speaker 1: be away so much.

130
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,080
Speaker 2: I thought that is going to be fantastic.

131
00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 1: And you know, to Cab County Police Captain Derwin Brown

132
00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:11,040
Speaker 1: was going to run for sheriff. He was going to

133
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 1: win it, and he was going to make some changes

134
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:18,000
Speaker 1: that were so necessary. And my in laws lived into

135
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,480
Speaker 1: Cab County, so this was going to be great. I

136
00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 1: was going to be closer to them, I was going

137
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 1: to be able to be home.

138
00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:25,720
Speaker 2: It was just going to be perfect.

139
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,360
Speaker 1: And you were involved with watching that and you were

140
00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,280
Speaker 1: real interested what Dernaan was doing, So why don't you

141
00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,360
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about why you watched that race

142
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 1: with such just laser focus.

143
00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:43,040
Speaker 4: At that time, I knew I was going to run

144
00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:46,200
Speaker 4: for sheriff in Clayton County, So of course I was

145
00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,200
Speaker 4: watching all shriff's races and studying the office of sheriff

146
00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,160
Speaker 4: very very closely and carefully, because I knew it was

147
00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 4: what I wanted to do, and I had a particular version,

148
00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,560
Speaker 4: not very ship visian for that office.

149
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 3: Well, he was of interest.

150
00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 4: In me because he seemed like he was interested in

151
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,960
Speaker 4: taking the sheriff's office and restoring it to his original jurisdiction.

152
00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,760
Speaker 4: And what I mean by that is in the metro

153
00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 4: area of Georgia, there's only eleven counties that have a

154
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 4: sheriff's office, and the county police used to be thirteen

155
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,320
Speaker 4: and now it's whittled down to eleven. County police departments

156
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,640
Speaker 4: are almost extinct, and for good reasons. And in those

157
00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:37,479
Speaker 4: particular counties, the sheriff, most of them have been reduced

158
00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,400
Speaker 4: to just civil papers and warrants and the jail in

159
00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:46,320
Speaker 4: the courthouse. Well, that's politics by law. You can't do

160
00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:49,520
Speaker 4: that with the sheriff's office. The sheriff's office by constitution

161
00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,320
Speaker 4: as the chief law enforcement agency of the county and

162
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,240
Speaker 4: has the authority to engage in any type of law enforcement,

163
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,480
Speaker 4: and they're supposed to actually the Constitution, which it makes

164
00:09:00,480 --> 00:09:02,520
Speaker 4: it clear that the sheriff has a duty to protect.

165
00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:05,040
Speaker 4: It doesn't say that about any other law enforcement agency,

166
00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:07,560
Speaker 4: but it's very very clear about that with the office

167
00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:10,200
Speaker 4: of sheriff. So when the sheriff doesn't enforce the law,

168
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,320
Speaker 4: he's actually violating a constitution if he just sits on

169
00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 4: the sidelines and say, well, let the police do this

170
00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,319
Speaker 4: or do that. Well, he seemed to be a person

171
00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,959
Speaker 4: that was interested in restoring the sheriff's officer's original jurisdiction

172
00:09:23,520 --> 00:09:25,960
Speaker 4: and using it which is for which it was intended

173
00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,280
Speaker 4: to be used. So I was going to watch not

174
00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,080
Speaker 4: just his election. I wanted to see what he was

175
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,240
Speaker 4: going to do once he got into office and see

176
00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,360
Speaker 4: how that worked out, because I figured maybe it could

177
00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,200
Speaker 4: be a model for what I had already had planned. Well,

178
00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:42,760
Speaker 4: unfortunately we know that never came to be because unfortunately

179
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:47,200
Speaker 4: he was robbed of his life, and ironically, he was

180
00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:51,160
Speaker 4: robbed of his life from a deputy that was employed

181
00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 4: at the sheriff's office. And you know, I'll probably let

182
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,640
Speaker 4: you get into that a little bit. But a lot

183
00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,040
Speaker 4: of people may not know it or may not remember.

184
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,160
Speaker 4: But during sent out thirty seven letters of thirty seven

185
00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 4: people that he felt should no longer be employed when

186
00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,880
Speaker 4: he became sheriff. That's not uncommon. That's the sheriff's right,

187
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,280
Speaker 4: and that's a wise thing to do. No elected person

188
00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:13,680
Speaker 4: goes in office, no president goes in office and keeps

189
00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,200
Speaker 4: the same cabinet. It's nothing personal, but you bring in

190
00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,439
Speaker 4: your own cabinet, and then there are some people who

191
00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:21,679
Speaker 4: simply don't need to be there. And obviously Durren Brown

192
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 4: was right and his choices because his choices of people

193
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,680
Speaker 4: he didn't want there was a murderer and that person that,

194
00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,760
Speaker 4: of course we found out was involved in a whole

195
00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:33,600
Speaker 4: lot of other things like overtime fraud.

196
00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:37,120
Speaker 2: And that's one thing I wanted to kind of get into.

197
00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:44,480
Speaker 1: Because Sidney Dorsey, a former Atlanta Police Department homicide detective.

198
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,000
Speaker 1: He made his name off the Wayne Williams serial killer case.

199
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,000
Speaker 1: He became the first African American sheriff into cabin County.

200
00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,360
Speaker 2: Yes, he was running against Derwin.

201
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,440
Speaker 1: Brown, Yes, when one and you know I did I

202
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:04,480
Speaker 1: believed in my friend.

203
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,559
Speaker 2: I knew he was going to make some changes.

204
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,520
Speaker 1: I knew it was going to be just a different day,

205
00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,160
Speaker 1: a new day into Cab County, and I was hopeful.

206
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:14,040
Speaker 2: I was excited.

207
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:22,080
Speaker 1: And then December fifteenth, two thousand, he is assassinated in

208
00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:27,640
Speaker 1: his front yard. He had just arrived home from celebrating

209
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,959
Speaker 1: his graduation from the Sheriff's Academy, which you're well schooled in.

210
00:11:32,920 --> 00:11:36,280
Speaker 1: And the thing that struck me is you're the one

211
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:41,400
Speaker 1: that said the trigger man is in that pile of letters,

212
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,320
Speaker 1: those letters that went out, the trigger man is in there.

213
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,920
Speaker 3: You knew it, Yes, you know.

214
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:52,559
Speaker 4: I had spent a decade in homicide and so that

215
00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,520
Speaker 4: that was my specialty. Of course, you know law enforcement

216
00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,360
Speaker 4: everyone has is something for everyone in law enforcement. This

217
00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:03,000
Speaker 4: traffic cops, there's drug cops, there's homicide cops. There's so

218
00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,280
Speaker 4: many areas to specialize in, and you know, there's something

219
00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,600
Speaker 4: for everyone, and there's a level of expertise. Just like lawyers,

220
00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 4: some are civil, some are criminal, some deal with medical

221
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 4: mal packages for the same thing in law enforcement. So

222
00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:21,880
Speaker 4: homicide has always and will always be my thing. I

223
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,319
Speaker 4: always have a love for that, and it was very

224
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,680
Speaker 4: obvious that that was going to be the case in

225
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,720
Speaker 4: that and thus when you fast forward you get my

226
00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:35,199
Speaker 4: infamous case where in my first day in office, I

227
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:39,040
Speaker 4: too fired well I fired twenty seven or thirty seven people,

228
00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,480
Speaker 4: but because of what happened to Duram Brown, I took precautions.

229
00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 4: You know, it's very very interesting how that was portrayed,

230
00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,199
Speaker 4: because my mine was portrayed as snipers on the roof.

231
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,679
Speaker 4: And you know how to media, the state, Yeah, they

232
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:59,480
Speaker 4: have right, they they Unfortunately, the media is not you know,

233
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,760
Speaker 4: when it comes to honesty and telling the truth, those

234
00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,439
Speaker 4: are probably the last people we can go to and

235
00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,720
Speaker 4: you can lie by Old Mission as well as CO Mission.

236
00:13:08,480 --> 00:13:12,160
Speaker 4: And what's interesting about them and a lot of my cases,

237
00:13:12,679 --> 00:13:14,880
Speaker 4: they did a lot of line by Old Mission as

238
00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:18,360
Speaker 4: opposed to CO Mission. But let's go to the co missioneer.

239
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 4: You know, the CO Mission is saying that we pointed

240
00:13:20,559 --> 00:13:23,800
Speaker 4: weapons at people. That's not true. If that was true,

241
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,560
Speaker 4: there would be a photograph of it, because there was

242
00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:28,280
Speaker 4: a leak about what I was going to do in

243
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:30,600
Speaker 4: the media actually took photograph and the footage of the

244
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:32,240
Speaker 4: guys I had on the roof. So if they actually

245
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,760
Speaker 4: had rifles, pointing at people. I'm sure they would have

246
00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:38,440
Speaker 4: had footage of that. But here's what is true. I

247
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:41,080
Speaker 4: did have been up there, and well trained men up there,

248
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,480
Speaker 4: and for good reason. When we saw what happen with

249
00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,680
Speaker 4: Durren Brown, it's not outside the rim of reason to

250
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,640
Speaker 4: believe that that couldn't happen in Clayton County or couldn't

251
00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,679
Speaker 4: happen in anything else. When people the sheriff's office is

252
00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:59,080
Speaker 4: are very sought after seat, and history has proven that

253
00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:03,120
Speaker 4: people would do anything to get that office up to

254
00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,959
Speaker 4: including an assassination would happen with Darren Brown. There was

255
00:14:07,000 --> 00:14:10,600
Speaker 4: another case like that in Kentucky. And another thing, if

256
00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:14,439
Speaker 4: they don't assassinate you, then they do a law fair

257
00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:18,280
Speaker 4: assassination and they'll find a reason to indict you. And

258
00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:20,280
Speaker 4: of course lawfare is something that we're starting to see

259
00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:22,760
Speaker 4: across the country. We've seen it happen with the President

260
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:26,720
Speaker 4: and various other elected officials, where if people feel you

261
00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,240
Speaker 4: can win an election and they want to stop you

262
00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:33,280
Speaker 4: from winning the election. We unfortunately have prosecutors that think

263
00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,160
Speaker 4: that it's okay to use the grand jury system, which

264
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 4: is something else we will have to talk about and

265
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:44,040
Speaker 4: use that as assist as a way to indict political

266
00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,280
Speaker 4: opponents of people they don't want to see when and

267
00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:51,720
Speaker 4: I think anyone familiar with our grand jury system knows

268
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,120
Speaker 4: how our cake, okay is, excuse my language, excuse my

269
00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,480
Speaker 4: pronunciation of that, but I believe that our country and

270
00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 4: Liberia in only two countries left with a grand jury.

271
00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:04,200
Speaker 4: And you know that's kind of close to a star chamber.

272
00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:07,400
Speaker 4: You can walk in a room with twelve people and

273
00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:09,880
Speaker 4: tell them anything you want to tell them, and the

274
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,040
Speaker 4: person that you're indicting is not there to defend themselves,

275
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:17,040
Speaker 4: and they can't even have a defense attorney to defend themselves,

276
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,600
Speaker 4: and you can tell them anything and there's no checks

277
00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:22,680
Speaker 4: or balances, and they take that as an opportunity to

278
00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,760
Speaker 4: lot of grand jury's And that's why they call it

279
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,480
Speaker 4: hamp Sandwich indictments, because with a system like that, you

280
00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:31,720
Speaker 4: literally can indict a ham Sandwich. And I've been the

281
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:35,400
Speaker 4: victim of those type of grand juries, not once, not twice,

282
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:36,479
Speaker 4: but three times.

283
00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,680
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about the snipers on the roof, because

284
00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:46,320
Speaker 1: I want to get to something. Because we mentioned that

285
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,880
Speaker 1: a deputy was involved in the assassination of Dulan Brown,

286
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,680
Speaker 1: but somebody else went to prison. Sidney Dorsey went to

287
00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:55,720
Speaker 1: prison the former sheriff.

288
00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:01,800
Speaker 4: Prosecutors are interested more so and what can get them

289
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:06,480
Speaker 4: a press conference or headlines, and they are sometimes getting

290
00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:09,760
Speaker 4: the actual criminal. It was more important for them to

291
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:12,800
Speaker 4: get Dorsey than it was to get the trigger man.

292
00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 4: Now we know years later Dorsey actually confess to being

293
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,960
Speaker 4: involved and confess to the murder, but for a long

294
00:16:22,960 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 4: time he didn't, and the only evidence was these particular people.

295
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 4: So it's sad that the just the testimony of murderers

296
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:37,760
Speaker 4: or criminals is enough to convict somebody on his own

297
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 4: because they're not really credible. And that's something we'll probably

298
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,280
Speaker 4: talk about one day what happened, and not only in

299
00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 4: my first case, with my second case, but I believe

300
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,360
Speaker 4: that the trigger man, the person that actually pulled the trigger,

301
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,080
Speaker 4: should never be allowed to walk free with something like that.

302
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 4: But they wasn't going to get the type of press

303
00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:02,080
Speaker 4: they wanted or to glory they wanted if they got him.

304
00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 4: But if they got the actual sheriff who didn't pull

305
00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:07,880
Speaker 4: the trigger, then then that's what you That's what happened.

306
00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 4: If you look at my case with the restraint chair,

307
00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:12,840
Speaker 4: I never physically placed anybody in a restraint chair. Now

308
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:14,960
Speaker 4: I did authorize them to be a restraint here and

309
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,640
Speaker 4: with good reason and within policy and within the law.

310
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,880
Speaker 4: But the people who actually put them in a restraint

311
00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,199
Speaker 4: chair were never prosecuted. And if you look at the

312
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:27,760
Speaker 4: videos of it, you see them placing them into the

313
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 4: restraint here. You don't see any physical violence, any force,

314
00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,359
Speaker 4: and you don't see anybody looking like they're afraid or

315
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:36,520
Speaker 4: paul to do it. Those folks that actually use those

316
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:40,119
Speaker 4: chairs sixty six hundred times without me being there or

317
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 4: my author authorization, and that's how they've.

318
00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 3: Always used it.

319
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:47,919
Speaker 4: But again, the target was made, it wasn't them, and

320
00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:50,000
Speaker 4: it really had nothing to do with the restraint chair.

321
00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:51,399
Speaker 4: It had to do this, It had to do it

322
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:54,119
Speaker 4: the same thing that the Duram Brown assassination was based

323
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,920
Speaker 4: on on who's going to be the sheriff. People will

324
00:17:57,960 --> 00:18:00,480
Speaker 4: do anything to get that seat. They will kill you,

325
00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 4: or they will indict you any way to get an

326
00:18:05,119 --> 00:18:06,160
Speaker 4: opponent out of the way.

327
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:06,959
Speaker 3: That's what they'll do.

328
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:11,680
Speaker 1: That's the reason I want people to understand. When all

329
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 1: they hear is the story about snipers on the roof,

330
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 1: they never mention Derwin Brown.

331
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,280
Speaker 2: He was an elected sheriff, he.

332
00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:26,639
Speaker 1: Was fixing to take office, and they killed him in

333
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:32,959
Speaker 1: his front yard. So you did not react based on

334
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:36,639
Speaker 1: something that happened twenty years ago. You did not respond

335
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,919
Speaker 1: and react based on something that you heard might have

336
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:45,640
Speaker 1: occurred somewhere else. This was a neighboring county in your state.

337
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,320
Speaker 1: So to me, when you said, hey, I'm fixing to

338
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,119
Speaker 1: send out some letters myself, I am not going to

339
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,120
Speaker 1: be caught off guard if somebody.

340
00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 2: That I know has a weapon.

341
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to make sure that myself and

342
00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,359
Speaker 1: everybody else in this building is going to be safe.

343
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,880
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I'm glad you brought that up. And let's

344
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:09,760
Speaker 4: play Devil's advocate for a second. Let's just say that

345
00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,760
Speaker 4: did not happen in the Cab county. But that is

346
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 4: the reason I made that decision, and that was the

347
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 4: case that I made that decision off off of the

348
00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:20,479
Speaker 4: use of extra security. But let's just say hypothetically that

349
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 4: didn't happen in the county just that sits directly next

350
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,200
Speaker 4: to my county. It's not outside the realm of reason

351
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 4: in the day's world that when you terminate people this

352
00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:35,680
Speaker 4: can happen. We you know, for a long time there

353
00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 4: was this They used to refer to it as going

354
00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:40,040
Speaker 4: postal because there was a lot of postal workers that

355
00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,680
Speaker 4: were starting to shoot their supervisors or whoever. And that's

356
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 4: why you had this thing, don't go postal. So we

357
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:52,159
Speaker 4: saw in the civilian world where people who don't carry

358
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 4: weapons to work as a part of their job, we're

359
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:57,800
Speaker 4: actually doing things like this. And of course, you know

360
00:19:57,920 --> 00:20:00,240
Speaker 4: active shooting situation, so how can it be out. I had

361
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 4: the rumor of reason that when you fire people who

362
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,439
Speaker 4: are carrying guns, that you don't need to take some

363
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 4: type of precaution. Anytime a chief of police or share

364
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 4: fire someone, he's firing a person that's armed, and if

365
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:18,000
Speaker 4: certain precautions are taking the person's arm at the time

366
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,200
Speaker 4: they're being fired. And that's why it was very, very

367
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 4: important that we came up with security ways to fire people.

368
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:29,160
Speaker 4: Even after that incident. It didn't make sense to tell

369
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:31,320
Speaker 4: a person they're fired and they got a gun on them.

370
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 4: You don't know what mental condition they might be in

371
00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 4: on how they react to it. So anytime you take

372
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:44,840
Speaker 4: preemptive action, critics will will criticize you for taking those actions.

373
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:51,040
Speaker 4: Up until the point something actually happens, and then they're

374
00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,600
Speaker 4: the same people will say, well, why didn't they do anything?

375
00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 4: Case an example, I was criticized for firing twenty seven

376
00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,879
Speaker 4: people on my first day in office. Three months later,

377
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 4: Brian Nichols shoots up the courthouse, kills a deputy, kills

378
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:11,359
Speaker 4: a judge, kills a clerk, and unfortunately even killed another

379
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,280
Speaker 4: innocent person, which I think just happened to be a

380
00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 4: federal agent. And the same media that was criticizing me

381
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:21,400
Speaker 4: for firing people the first day started criticizing that share

382
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 4: of saying why didn't he fire people and why didn't

383
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 4: he bring in a better staff when he came in office?

384
00:21:26,359 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 4: And thus you have the maxim Damn if you do,

385
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,560
Speaker 4: Damn if you don't, well.

386
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 1: You got elected, you lost reelection, and then you won again.

387
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 1: But I got to tell something, and I'm fitzing to

388
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:39,439
Speaker 1: tell you the truth.

389
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 3: You ready, I'm ready, that's gonna be good.

390
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:45,639
Speaker 2: I am driving down the road.

391
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:51,120
Speaker 1: Comes over the radio breaking news you have been indicted.

392
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:57,040
Speaker 1: Thirty seven count rico indictment.

393
00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 2: And I thought, child, he did it. Thirty seven counts.

394
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 2: He did it.

395
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,440
Speaker 1: That's what I thought, because I thought, you know, one

396
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: or two lies maybe it's like Bill Cosby, One or

397
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:18,280
Speaker 1: two women can get together and lie, but not thirty seven.

398
00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 1: So when I hear Rico, and I'm thinking the FEDS,

399
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,440
Speaker 1: who have all the time and money and resources, thirty

400
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: seven count this man that I've known.

401
00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:38,160
Speaker 2: Respected, he's had a fall from grace. That's it. That's

402
00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 2: what I thought.

403
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,879
Speaker 4: Yeah, you think he must have done something, and you know,

404
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 4: and you know I can give you that I know

405
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 4: was a prominent preacher in Clayton County. I've known for years,

406
00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,159
Speaker 4: and you know, this is a guy I've known on

407
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:55,680
Speaker 4: a personal level. And I had an honest conversation with her,

408
00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 4: told how disappointed I was in him in that incident.

409
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 4: And he said, basically what you said. But I can't

410
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 4: give him the same grace I gave you because I've

411
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 4: known him on a personal level. And he said, well,

412
00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 4: you know what, all those charges, I thought you had

413
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 4: to have done something. So I understand where you're coming

414
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,639
Speaker 4: from on that. Well, let me tell you what was

415
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:16,119
Speaker 4: a lesson learned for me and a lot of people

416
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 4: on that particular case. You know, you just don't think

417
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 4: of prosecutors as lying, and you don't think it am

418
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,480
Speaker 4: as plotting and trying to do something on a political case.

419
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 4: You just think that these are honest people, I think,

420
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,120
Speaker 4: you know, when you find out, like I found out

421
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,760
Speaker 4: over the years, that that's not the case with all

422
00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 4: of them. You got some thieves and some murderers in there,

423
00:23:38,600 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 4: and unfortunately, you got a lot of liars in there.

424
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 2: I worked Zone three. We lost some good people to

425
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,440
Speaker 2: some really bad.

426
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:51,360
Speaker 4: Action, absolutely, and so it was hard to believe that, Wow,

427
00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 4: there has to be something to this.

428
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 3: But you know, here's in a nutshell what we got.

429
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 4: If you look at the time I was indicted three

430
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 4: years after I'm out of office, when I announced I'm

431
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 4: going to run again, and the people behind the indictment

432
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 4: was the guy who was shared at that time, kimbro

433
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,720
Speaker 4: and the DA who and another one, Tasha Mosley.

434
00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 3: They all ran as a political slate.

435
00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 4: So when he barely won last time and he went

436
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 4: on a technicality, that's another story. You know, you got

437
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 4: to be careful questioning elections now because you got these

438
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 4: other attorneys prosecutors that want to prosecute you for that.

439
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 3: But it was a technicality.

440
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 4: He went on on a trick that they tried that worked,

441
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 4: and there was really nothing we could do about it.

442
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 4: So when I came back, they pretty much knew I

443
00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:47,560
Speaker 4: was going to win and they had to find a

444
00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 4: way to stop it. But the first thing when you

445
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,400
Speaker 4: look at these indictments is it, both of them, including

446
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,679
Speaker 4: the one with the restraints here, they all came around

447
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 4: reelection time. So if you want to know if a

448
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 4: prosecuteations politically motivated or not, look at the timing of it.

449
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 4: Here's what a lot of other people don't realize. It

450
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,879
Speaker 4: says thirty seven twenty seven count indictment or whatever, but

451
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 4: people didn't realize what those indictments were. When you say

452
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 4: recod of course you think I'm a mobster. You think

453
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,760
Speaker 4: of people like John Gotti, etc. But what those changes

454
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 4: actually were was I was accused of stealing the same

455
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 4: police car multiple times. The DAS and their infinite wisdom

456
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 4: and creativity of novel cases, said that every time I

457
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,879
Speaker 4: drove that car out of town, it was theft of

458
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 4: a motor vehicle, and as a result, when I put

459
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 4: gas in the vehicle, that was a subsequent theft. And

460
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 4: you know, rico means that you take an organization and

461
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 4: use it as a criminal enterprise. So their theory in

462
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 4: order to get me in dited was every time I

463
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,479
Speaker 4: drove that car out of town and every time I

464
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 4: put gas into it. All of those charges became felonies,

465
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 4: even if the amount of gas in the car at

466
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 4: that time was twenty or thirty dollars, because they lumped

467
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,360
Speaker 4: it all together under Rico, so every charge was a felony.

468
00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 4: So every time I put gas in the car was

469
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 4: a felony. That was twenty seven of the counts. So

470
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 4: that meant I took the same car, stole it took,

471
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:23,480
Speaker 4: stole it, brought it back to myself, stole it brought

472
00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 4: it back to myself.

473
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 3: And it's ridiculous.

474
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:28,080
Speaker 4: Every sheriff has twenty four hour use of his car,

475
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,120
Speaker 4: and the person that creates a policy for the car

476
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 4: is the sheriff. If anything happens in the county, a

477
00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 4: deputy gets killed or god for God forbid or killed

478
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 4: takes a life, or there's a situation that comes out

479
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 4: of that, I have to respond back. No matter where

480
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 4: I'm at, I have a credit card where if I'm

481
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 4: too far away, I have to get the first flight back.

482
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 4: It's a whole lot cheaper to get back in the

483
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 4: car than calling the airport and saying, hey, I need

484
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 4: a ticket right away. So it's not uncommon, it's not illegal.

485
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: It was another novel theory of prosecution, like the one

486
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 4: that they were able to get a conviction on that time.

487
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:12,120
Speaker 4: Fortunately the jury saw through it and we were able

488
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:14,560
Speaker 4: to present everything to this jury that we needed to.

489
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 4: We weren't able to do that because we were stopped

490
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 4: by the judge. And it's a case where I'm dealing

491
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 4: with a conviction on now that we're appealing. But that

492
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,919
Speaker 4: goes to show you the length that people will go

493
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:27,280
Speaker 4: to to get a prosecution.

494
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: Well, the media, you know media, you got.

495
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 4: These so called item reporters that're supposed to look into things.

496
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 4: I know for a fact they were aware of it

497
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:38,720
Speaker 4: because I made sure all of that got sent to them.

498
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 4: They refused to do it because one thing you got

499
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 4: to understand about media, especially our local media, they will

500
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 4: see to it that you don't get a fair part crial.

501
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 4: They'll play just enough to turn the public opinion to

502
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,399
Speaker 4: make people think you're actually guilty of something you're not.

503
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 4: And even when they're aware are facts that can help you,

504
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 4: they won't put that out in the meeting because they

505
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,640
Speaker 4: want to see you get indicted too, so they can

506
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 4: have something to report, kind of like they like inciting riots,

507
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 4: so they can have something to report, because most riots

508
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,440
Speaker 4: are started by the media. So these are the type

509
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 4: of things you're looking at. And most people don't know

510
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: what those indictments were about. So when those charges were

511
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 4: when I was acquitted, it gave me this type of

512
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 4: John Gotti aura that I was untouchable. But I don't

513
00:28:26,760 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 4: think the public realized just how asinine, for lack of

514
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 4: a better term, the charges were and the people who

515
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 4: brought the charges.

516
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: In just the last three days in Georgia, we have

517
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: had two police officers killed in the line of duty.

518
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 2: And two more shot just hours ago.

519
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: I want you to tell people your thoughts on community policing.

520
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:03,440
Speaker 4: I think that community police and, while it has some value,

521
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 4: is overrated and a waste of time. And I think

522
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 4: that it's contributing to what you just describe what we're

523
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 4: having in Atlanta.

524
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 3: Now let me tell you why.

525
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:21,280
Speaker 4: First of all, before this term community police and was coined,

526
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: all the good cops did that anyway, you built rapport

527
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 4: with different people in the community so that when things happen,

528
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,920
Speaker 4: they would tell you. All the good homicide detectors. We

529
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 4: had rapports with prostitutes, barbers, cab drivers, pimps. We built

530
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 4: rapports with these people because when dead bodies started popping up,

531
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 4: they usually knew who did it. And there are a

532
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 4: lot of times my phone would ring on my way

533
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 4: to homicide and they would say, hey, look this is

534
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 4: who did it. I don't want to be involved, So

535
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 4: my job was to get there and depend on good

536
00:29:56,640 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 4: people like you to connect that person to the scene

537
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 4: with some type of physical evidence. So that's really what

538
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 4: community policing was designed for.

539
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 3: You know.

540
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:12,959
Speaker 4: I was once sitting at a symposia and a local

541
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 4: rapper was there, Killer Mike, and I was sitting there

542
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 4: with who is a police chief at that time, and

543
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 4: he started talking about his vision of community police and

544
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 4: I'll never forget this.

545
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 3: Killer Mike looked at him and he said, you.

546
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 4: Know, on the streets we laugh at officer friendly, right,

547
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 4: And the room got silent that he was right. When

548
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:38,120
Speaker 4: you send officers out to deal with rapers, rapists, robbers, murderers,

549
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:43,560
Speaker 4: but you want them to go out there and play

550
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,960
Speaker 4: nice guy and get on the ground and play with

551
00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 4: dolls and stuff like that. Those type of killers will

552
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 4: not take those officers seriously, and neither were most of

553
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,440
Speaker 4: the public. And there's this group of people out there

554
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 4: that makes it sound like, you know, anytime you see

555
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,560
Speaker 4: an officer in the uniform dancing with everybody, it's a

556
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 4: good thing. But I don't see it that way. It's

557
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 4: not a good thing. First of all, he's dancing with

558
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,719
Speaker 4: the public. He can't really have situational awareness. So if

559
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 4: you get an active shooter that comes into the crowd,

560
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 4: he's not going to be aware of it because he's

561
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: too busy dancing. His job is to protect the people

562
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 4: so they can enjoy dancing and have a good time.

563
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 4: So he has to be vigilant. He has to be

564
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 4: like the sheep dog looking for the wolves to come in.

565
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 4: I don't have any biological kids, but if I did,

566
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 4: I wouldn't want an officer friendly at their school. I

567
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 4: wouldn't want anybody there that they felt comfortable playing with

568
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 4: anything like that. I wouldn't want somebody there. I'm not

569
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 4: saying that he would mistreat people. I'm not saying he

570
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 4: would talk down to people unnecessarily. But I want to

571
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 4: know that there's somebody strong and competent, so someone walks

572
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 4: in and starts shooting at kids. I know he's going

573
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 4: to take care of it. I would want to know

574
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 4: that somebody there strong enough that criminals actually feared coming

575
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 4: to that school and showing out because they know that

576
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 4: particular office is there. I want my kids to be safe.

577
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 4: I don't need any clowns. They're playing with them. And

578
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 4: if they're afraid of them, good. I mean they should

579
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 4: be afraid of the police, because if they're afraid, then

580
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:13,560
Speaker 4: maybe they won't come there and kill our kids or

581
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 4: take advantage of them.

582
00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 1: And you know Leslie Bailey, you know Leslie from Clayton County.

583
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,800
Speaker 1: She used to say yes, no, please, and thank you

584
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: ain't going to get it done that.

585
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,760
Speaker 2: You can't always be polite.

586
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 4: Absolutely, when in Rome you have to do as Romans do,

587
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:36,960
Speaker 4: and when you're in different countries you have to learn

588
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 4: to speak that particular language. When you're dealing with killers,

589
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 4: when you're dealing with robbers, when you're dealing with a

590
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,400
Speaker 4: certain group of people who they live their lives based

591
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 4: on praying on others. They're not going to understand the

592
00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 4: Barney song if you start singing it to them.

593
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,240
Speaker 3: They're just not And you know, if you.

594
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 4: Look at this case with the restraint chair case, now

595
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 4: that we're dealing with, you'll see this big deal in

596
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 4: the media. There's a guy I'm talking to and I'm

597
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 4: telling him not in Mike County and stay out of

598
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 4: my county. And I refer to him and I tell him,

599
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 4: I said, hey, you sound like a jackass. Well he

600
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 4: did sound like a jackets. And I don't apologize. If

601
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 4: you take an eighty year old woman out of a

602
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,440
Speaker 4: wheelchair and pull her here out and throw her on

603
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,440
Speaker 4: the ground, and your reason for doing that is because

604
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 4: you said that you felt that she cut in front

605
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:30,840
Speaker 4: of you in line, and you beat up her sixty

606
00:33:30,920 --> 00:33:35,080
Speaker 4: year old daughter, you are a jackass. And if we're

607
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 4: going to indict out offices for talking tough when we

608
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 4: need to talk tough, and for being tough when we

609
00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 4: need to be tough, then this is what you see

610
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 4: we get because when you do stuff like that, you

611
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 4: in bold in criminals. And that's what you've seen happen

612
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 4: here in Atlanta. You've seen criminals become very, very bold.

613
00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 4: If you look at the jail that I used to run,

614
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 4: they're in bolded in there. There's now stabbings, there's drugs,

615
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 4: there's cell phones.

616
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: There's been four murders.

617
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 4: None of that occurred under my watch, and a lot

618
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,359
Speaker 4: of that didn't occur because of the conversations I had

619
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 4: with them. And when we saw people who showed the

620
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 4: potential for violence, we did what officers are trained to

621
00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 4: do all over the state. We do it on search warrants,

622
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 4: we do it on traffic stops. People we think that

623
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:28,240
Speaker 4: could have the potential for violence, they're restrained for safety.

624
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,600
Speaker 4: And that stopped all of that from occurring. And you

625
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:33,840
Speaker 4: take that one tool away because you want to do

626
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 4: a political prosecution in order to get someone elected. And

627
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,479
Speaker 4: now we have and I said four is actually five

628
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 4: dead bodies in that jail since then.

629
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:44,040
Speaker 3: And I'm not talking about people dying in.

630
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 4: Natural causes, because we have no control when the Lord

631
00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 4: calls them ie home. But we do have control over

632
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 4: people being killed. Five murders in the jail, five four murderers, release, stabbing,

633
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 4: cell phones, drug over doses, riot situations of people refusing

634
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 4: the lockdown. That's the result of that, And that's the

635
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 4: result of prosecutors criticizing and making up novel prosecutions, and

636
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,919
Speaker 4: they make officers afraid to do their job and That's

637
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 4: why we see criminals sewing bodes into to challenge law

638
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 4: enforcement because officers are afraid. Now they say something, they

639
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 4: do something, next thing you look at being prosecuted.

640
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: Well, you know, this was on my mind today because

641
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:36,480
Speaker 1: when we got word of the South Fulton officer that

642
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: was shot and we learned about him first, I was

643
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: literally at a community event where my department was passing

644
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: out little rabbits for adopt a rabbit program in the park.

645
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: You know, but hold on, now, hold on, hold on,

646
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 2: hold on. In our defense, listen, I'm one of the folks.

647
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,160
Speaker 1: I worked a Zone three, I was involved with weed

648
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: and seed, and I was bought in, And I thought,

649
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: you know, if we can get them young enough where

650
00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: they learn about us, they know our first name, they

651
00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 1: know our face, they know that we're not there to

652
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,680
Speaker 1: hurt anybody that we just want to protect.

653
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: I really do believe in that.

654
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: However, I also know exactly what you're saying, that there's

655
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 1: no way a killer or a rapist is watching a

656
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: community child get a rabbit for Easter and that's going

657
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,279
Speaker 1: to change their minds at all. But I would like

658
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:44,680
Speaker 1: to see almost a parallel way of enforcing meaning deal

659
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,800
Speaker 1: with the children in this way, deal with the criminals

660
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: in this way. So you have your community outreach people

661
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: as well as Hey, we're going to engage the community

662
00:36:54,640 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: and the children and the teenagers and the elderly. But

663
00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:00,720
Speaker 1: on this other hand, I will release he's the Viber

664
00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 1: team anytime I need them.

665
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 4: I agree that there should be a balance, But let

666
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:09,799
Speaker 4: me tell you who I think the balance should be.

667
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,720
Speaker 4: In the normal course of my day to day job,

668
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,520
Speaker 4: I come across children all the time, and some of

669
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 4: these kids love cops anyway, and they come up and

670
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 4: they ask questions. I always had a bag full of badges,

671
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 4: and I would pin the badges on them and swear

672
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 4: them in and tell them come work for me as

673
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 4: soon as they get a particular age. Sometimes we're on

674
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,239
Speaker 4: search wants we see kids out there, look at once.

675
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 4: It's seeing the secure and we got everyone handcuff and restrain.

676
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:40,480
Speaker 4: Then we can pass out some badges or whatever. But

677
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 4: I think a concerted effort to go out and do

678
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 4: that as a waste of taxpayer's money. And let me

679
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:49,120
Speaker 4: tell you, let me tell you why I say that.

680
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 4: You know, anytime you got to prove you're a good guy,

681
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:55,040
Speaker 4: it doesn't come off genuine.

682
00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 3: If you're a good.

683
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 4: Guy, people will know you're a good guy. And there

684
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:01,680
Speaker 4: are things that you do in the course, you know,

685
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 4: community police. It was something we were already doing anyway.

686
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 4: It just wasn't coined and we didn't assign anybody to it.

687
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:10,720
Speaker 4: I can remember a young cop going on a house

688
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,799
Speaker 4: fire and the house was burned down, the family has

689
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,480
Speaker 4: nowhere to go, and one cop would take the lead

690
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,640
Speaker 4: and say, hey, y'all got any money, Let's put something

691
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 4: together for them and get them a room.

692
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 3: We just did it.

693
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 4: We wasn't trying to do a TikTok video or say hey,

694
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,560
Speaker 4: look what we did today. It was just the right

695
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 4: thing to do, and we did it, and we had

696
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 4: relationships because we were in there and we were solving

697
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 4: crimes and if we can help people along the way,

698
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 4: we did. But to take four or five offices and say, okay,

699
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 4: your only job is to go out and be nicer

700
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,560
Speaker 4: people and make them think we're human too, Okay, first

701
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 4: of all, it's ridiculous. Okay, if we're not human, what

702
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 4: are we are? We aliens? I think people already know that.

703
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,279
Speaker 4: I think in your day to day work, everybody can

704
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 4: be a community cop when they need to. When I'm

705
00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 4: driving down the street and I see a lady with

706
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,840
Speaker 4: a flat tire, I'm going to stop and change it.

707
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,239
Speaker 4: And I mean, my deputies do that. And that's not

708
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 4: just being a nice guy, it's just good police work.

709
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 4: If she's there on the side of the road, she

710
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 4: could get hit or somebody could come and take advantage

711
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 4: of her, which I worked at case like that when

712
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:21,400
Speaker 4: I was a detective. A woman broke down on the

713
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 4: side of the road and the wrong people stopped, and

714
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 4: unfortunately she was sexually assaulted and we had to spend

715
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,959
Speaker 4: all night hunting those guys down. But at the same time,

716
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,520
Speaker 4: people appreciate that. I can remember running for sheriff one

717
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:37,840
Speaker 4: time and I knocked on the door to ask for

718
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 4: a vote, and I didn't recognize the person, but they said, hey,

719
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 4: I always vote for you. Stop to help me change

720
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 4: my tire. Well, it was the right thing to do,

721
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 4: but I wasn't doing it because I was hoping I

722
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:48,560
Speaker 4: was going to get a vote.

723
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 3: That's just what I do.

724
00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 4: And I think the whole department, if they just do

725
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 4: the right thing, that's community policing. But to kit six

726
00:39:56,640 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 4: or eight people and they don't ride calls, they don't

727
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 4: check the door, and they're not protected. They're not doing

728
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:05,120
Speaker 4: active patrol work. But their only job is to go

729
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 4: out and act like, hey, we're nice people, and we

730
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,839
Speaker 4: cry and all that kind of stuff like that. That's

731
00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:14,720
Speaker 4: not what law enforcement was intended to do. I would

732
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,520
Speaker 4: rather the seven or eight people that was on the

733
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 4: community policing team at the police when I was there.

734
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,359
Speaker 4: I would rather know they're riding in my neighborhood making

735
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 4: show my house don't get broken into. And I would

736
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 4: rather know that the toughest one of them all, if

737
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:32,359
Speaker 4: I had kids, was at that school making sure no

738
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 4: one came in and shot my child.

739
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: I want to just mention briefly.

740
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,680
Speaker 1: You were convicted May fifteenth, twenty twenty three of violating

741
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,680
Speaker 1: the civil rights of six inmates. I don't want to

742
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: talk about that. I want to talk about the fact

743
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,560
Speaker 1: that you went to federal prison for eighteen months and

744
00:40:54,640 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: what you're doing with it. So you went to Forest

745
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:04,400
Speaker 1: City Federal pen MB the lines then tell us a

746
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:08,720
Speaker 1: little bit about that, because I was so just knocked

747
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: out the way you write in your book, the Vigilanti

748
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: Sheriff about what the inmates taught you, and I just

749
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:21,840
Speaker 1: think it's real important for young officers that listen to

750
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: this podcast or veteran detectives. No matter your circumstance, you

751
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: can still serve, you can still help people, and that's

752
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: what you're doing.

753
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: But I just want you to talk about that a

754
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:35,680
Speaker 2: little bit.

755
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 3: Well.

756
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 4: To talk about that, first, we got to understand this.

757
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 4: Most elected officials, when they're sent to federal prison, they're

758
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 4: sent to what was called a camp, and that's just

759
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 4: a fact they are. I wasn't sent to a camp.

760
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 4: I was sent to a real prison, and I was

761
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,680
Speaker 4: put in the worst housing unit with the most violent inmates,

762
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 4: particular facility that no doubt was done by design, because

763
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 4: it really didn't make any other sense, any other reason

764
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:11,840
Speaker 4: why that would be. And there was certain things that

765
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,839
Speaker 4: were said and done by the staff that I knew

766
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 4: that was by design because when I first got there

767
00:42:17,719 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 4: and I was placing that particular unit, maybe two hours later,

768
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,279
Speaker 4: I get called back up front to meet with the

769
00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 4: lieutenant and he asked me if the people in there

770
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 4: knew who I was, and he asked if I was scared,

771
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 4: And of course why would I be. I mean that's

772
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 4: I used to run a jail. I used to walk

773
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 4: to jail by myself. And what was interesting is after

774
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,279
Speaker 4: he asked that question, he said, well, you know, if

775
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 4: anybody bothers you, let us know. You can't stay up

776
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 4: here with us, but we'll find something. Well, the only

777
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,120
Speaker 4: thing they could find for me is isolation. That's the

778
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 4: only thing they could do with people would get scared

779
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 4: because a lot of people came in there and we're

780
00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 4: afraid or got beaten and was forced to go in

781
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 4: to isolation. And no doubt that's what they thought was

782
00:43:02,440 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 4: going to happen to me. Well, to their surprise and

783
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 4: the people who planned that surprise, it did not. You know,

784
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:14,400
Speaker 4: if you send sheep to a lion's den, they'll get devoured.

785
00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:16,759
Speaker 4: If you send a line to the lions, then it's

786
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 4: a brotherhood.

787
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: So that's what happened.

788
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:22,280
Speaker 4: A brotherhood formed in there, and we had some good,

789
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 4: honest conversations, and they got to hear my side and

790
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,879
Speaker 4: I got to hear their side, and I learned more

791
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 4: from them than they learned from me. And they became

792
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:38,200
Speaker 4: my teachers. Not only did they become my teachers, they

793
00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 4: became my advocate. You know a lot of them researched

794
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 4: my case and helped write briefs that they wouldn't to

795
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 4: send my attorney for my appeal because they didn't agree

796
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 4: with my case. One of them was a man that

797
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:56,879
Speaker 4: actually spent sixteen hours in a restraint chair, and when

798
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,399
Speaker 4: he read the actual case, he said he'd never heard

799
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 4: of anything like that before, and if they were locking

800
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 4: up people for something like that, why didn't the people

801
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 4: put me in a chair for sixteen hours go to prison?

802
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,360
Speaker 4: So it's very interesting that they not only became my

803
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 4: teachers on a lot of things, but they became my

804
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,640
Speaker 4: legal advocates because there's a lot of jail house lawyers

805
00:44:15,640 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 4: there and I learned a lot from them.

806
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 3: I hope they learned something from me.

807
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 4: But I think that became my university, and I think

808
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 4: I became the student, and I believe that I earned

809
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,760
Speaker 4: a degree from them, and not vice versa. I write

810
00:44:31,760 --> 00:44:35,000
Speaker 4: in that book that they really wrote that book. As

811
00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:36,760
Speaker 4: a matter of fact, they did. That was their idea

812
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 4: that I write that book. It would have never got

813
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 4: written if it wasn't for them, And I sincerely hope

814
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 4: that the things in that book bring the light the

815
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 4: points that they made, and I hope it will be

816
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 4: a proverbial rope for them to climb out of that

817
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 4: pit as well.

818
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 2: And you know, you and I have talked about this

819
00:44:58,280 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 2: a little bit.

820
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: But I don't know why some people are gonna have

821
00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: alcoholism or drug addiction, or a child with special needs

822
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: or cancer, or why a child would get kidnapped.

823
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:14,000
Speaker 2: But I do know what has come from it.

824
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: We now have things like alcoholics Anonymous and alan On

825
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 1: and special Olympics and Saint Jude and the Amber Alert.

826
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,080
Speaker 2: I don't know why you had this fall from grace,

827
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:25,879
Speaker 2: but I.

828
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,360
Speaker 1: Know what you're doing with it now through your podcast

829
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:32,359
Speaker 1: with your brother, and you know, I see that you're

830
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: trying to help the folks that are still in that

831
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:40,040
Speaker 1: federal prison that you did befriend, that you openly in

832
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,680
Speaker 1: the book say that they're your brothers. There's a brotherhood

833
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,239
Speaker 1: there too, just like your law enforcement family. So I

834
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 1: don't know why it happened, but I know some good

835
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 1: will come from it from you helping other people, You

836
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 1: reaching back, you tossing that rope back so they can

837
00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:58,359
Speaker 1: climb out of that pit.

838
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:03,720
Speaker 4: Absolutely, you know, So no matter what happens, as a rule,

839
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 4: you've got to find a good in it, and you've

840
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 4: got to make something good happen out of it. And

841
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 4: you know, there's all types of theories out there that

842
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 4: everything happens for a reason, and maybe it does, and

843
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 4: maybe it's you know, and do we know what that

844
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:18,879
Speaker 4: reason is at this time?

845
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 3: We don't. But that's what you have to do.

846
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,080
Speaker 4: Any situation that befalls you, you got to take it,

847
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 4: and you got to take lemon and turn it into lemonade.

848
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 2: Amen.

849
00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: But I got to say one more thing before we conclude.

850
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: I've read a lot of stories, I've witnessed a lot.

851
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: I worked in corrections for eight years. Never ever have

852
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:49,279
Speaker 1: I heard of anything more gangster than the way you

853
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: showed up.

854
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 3: Sir.

855
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 4: Let me hear what you're about to say.

856
00:46:54,520 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: Only he shows up and turns himself into the Federal

857
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 1: penitentiary in a private jet. Now, I'm not going to

858
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: ask you to name any names. I'm just saying that

859
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: is a gangster move. So if I'm already in there

860
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,359
Speaker 1: and I think, oh, this sheriff, he's gonna come in here,

861
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: he's gonna have to humble himself, We're gonna show him

862
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:17,919
Speaker 1: what's what.

863
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:19,880
Speaker 2: Most law enforcement there.

864
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:21,879
Speaker 1: In great danger of the minute they hit this thing

865
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:24,360
Speaker 1: and I look out there and I see a private

866
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 1: jet lamp.

867
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 3: Well, let me tell you this.

868
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,720
Speaker 4: The prison they sent me to was a thousand miles away,

869
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 4: and that's not an easy drive. So you know, by

870
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 4: playing you could be there in an hour by car.

871
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:45,879
Speaker 4: That's like a twelve hour drive. So it made more

872
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 4: sense to go there that way to make sure I'm

873
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:50,320
Speaker 4: on time and to make sure it's an easier trip.

874
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 4: I don't know if I can add us abtract that,

875
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 4: but I can tell you this. By time I walked

876
00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 4: into prison, that story was told a million times, million

877
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,880
Speaker 4: ways before I left. The story was that the plane

878
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 4: landed in the backfield and I came in through the

879
00:48:05,960 --> 00:48:08,719
Speaker 4: back gate of the jail. And I tell you, it's

880
00:48:08,719 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 4: been a lot of fun with it. You know, it's

881
00:48:10,239 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 4: amazing how folklore can get started off of something that

882
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:16,640
Speaker 4: is really simple.

883
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:18,520
Speaker 3: And that's one of them.

884
00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 4: I probably never lived down because I know that was

885
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:22,080
Speaker 4: a talk of the whole prison.

886
00:48:22,560 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 2: Oh I'm certain, I am certain.

887
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: Listen, Victor Hill, I appreciate you coming on and talking

888
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: to me.

889
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:35,360
Speaker 2: I appreciate your openness, your willingness to share.

890
00:48:36,320 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: You know, not such a great eighteen months out of

891
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:42,960
Speaker 1: your life and career. But I think it's important for

892
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,560
Speaker 1: people to hear and again, thank.

893
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:49,919
Speaker 3: You, thanks for having me. The pleasure's truly mine, y'all.

894
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to end Zone seven the way that I

895
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:57,919
Speaker 1: always do, with a quote, save yourself. You don't owe

896
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:06,959
Speaker 1: these people anymore. You've given them everything. Catwoman, Batman, Dark

897
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 1: Night Rising. I'm Cheryl McCollum and this is Zone seven.