1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: On the Doll Cast, the questions asked if movies have 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: women in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: or do they have individualism? The patriarchy Zef and best 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:18,640 Speaker 1: start changing it with the Bell Cast. Jamie, Caitlin, eat 5 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: this chocolate cake right now. I noticed that you stole 6 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: my cake from earlier, and now you have to eat 7 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:34,000 Speaker 1: this whole giant chocolate cake. Because I'm mean, honestly, I 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: would gladly eat the chocolate cake. And in fact, I 9 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: wish you thought through this punishment more because it seems 10 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: like I win. Yeah. Well, now I'm rethinking it, and 11 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: I feel like I should just invite you over to 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: eat some cake with me and like have a nice 13 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 1: time together. Yeah, should we just like hang out? Yeah, 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: let's do that. See, this is how the conflict should 15 00:00:54,680 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: have resolved in that scene. That's that's good screen writing. Absolutely. Yeah. 16 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. My name is Jamie Loftus, 17 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,919 Speaker 1: my name is Caitlin Durante, and this is our show 18 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: in which we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: using the Bechtel test as a jumping off point. It 20 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 1: just is there to initiate a larger conversation we have. 21 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: But Jamie, tell me, yeah, what is it? What is 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 1: the Bechtel test? I get you? Keep eating your cake. 23 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,039 Speaker 1: I'll let you know what it is, Okay, the back 24 00:01:34,120 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 1: Del disgusting. The Chel test is a media metric created 25 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 1: by queer cartoonist Alice and Bechdels, sometimes called the Bechdel 26 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: Wallace test. There's many versions of it. Here's the one 27 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: that we use. We require that therapy two characters of 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: a marginalized gender with names who speak to each other 29 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: about something other than a man for two lines of dialog, 30 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: and the exchange should be meaningful in some way. Ideally Yeah, 31 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: so so no, Hey, can I take your order? Yes? 32 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 1: I will have the cake unless it's important plot cake, 33 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: in which case, so you know it's complicated. Every plot 34 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: cake it counts. If it's just cake, it doesn't count. 35 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: Every exchange is worth a close examination, which is why 36 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: we talk about the movies for longer than the movies 37 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: run time almost every time. True, ye, should we bring 38 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: on our returning guest? Yes, we have a much requested 39 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 1: episode today. We've been getting requests for this movie for years, 40 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: and we were simply waiting for the right time, the 41 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 1: right place, the right guest, and here they are and 42 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 1: the time is now our guests. They are a non binary, 43 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:56,239 Speaker 1: mixed race magma artist, curator, and educator. Their work focuses 44 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: on reclaiming narrative space and fusing genre with social justice 45 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: and holding space collaboration. And you know them from our 46 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: episode on Rhymes for Young Ghouls. It's just Merwin. Hello, 47 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: Let's get sticky. This movie is very sticky. So many textures, 48 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: so many gooey, gooey textures. Um, I forgot that John 49 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: Lovett's has like a cameo as the Let's Get Sticky 50 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:32,920 Speaker 1: guy from the TV show they watch. Also, like there's 51 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: a magazine at one point that Zinny is holding with 52 00:03:35,680 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: like like Let's get Sticky and John Lovett's on the cover. 53 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: So I'm like, is this game show in world like 54 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: a big thing, like a big deal, And like, I 55 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 1: bet interesting, you know, interesting choice. I kind of want 56 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 1: to what I would I like, I know that there's 57 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: a lot of telegraphing of like television is the root 58 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,040 Speaker 1: of all evil in this movie, which you know, I 59 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: agree to disagree. But but as I was as that 60 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: show was playing, I was like honestly, I would watch 61 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: that show. That's I watched The Masked Singer, Like, I 62 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 1: would watch that show for sure. Um, have you heard 63 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:19,960 Speaker 1: about this new reality television competition program that's called The Activist? 64 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: Oh my god, Yeah, that is a show I will 65 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:27,800 Speaker 1: not watch and how it's a fucking horrendous disaster piece 66 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: of ship. Yeah, but I kind of want to watch 67 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: it for similar reasons of being like, oh, this is 68 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: a bad idea, but like it, Like I can't not watch. 69 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: I cannot watch. I like reality TV always has its 70 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: finger on the pulse of late stage capitalism. Uh that 71 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: is like the most late stage capitalism. I was like, 72 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 1: oh wow, okay, so we're just doing this that Yeah, 73 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: that's that's going to be a bleak one. Who is 74 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: like I I forget who was like on the feel 75 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:05,480 Speaker 1: like sure as a judge, Yeah, I wonder if he's 76 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: going to be like, Okay, here's I can only contribute 77 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: ushbucks to Uh interesting? Oh my goodness. Yeah, you know, 78 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 1: famous famous philanthropist and singing sensation philanthropist. Yeah, I don't know. 79 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I you know, I saw a post. 80 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: I think it was a friend of the show Jamison, 81 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,240 Speaker 1: meaning who was like posting about it, and I was 82 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,080 Speaker 1: just like this, this is such this is like a 83 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: nightmare that I would have, you know, like right, so 84 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: you know, it's like I feel the same way about 85 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: let's get sticky. Let's get sticky. Yeah, well should we 86 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 1: get sticky by diving into Jess? What is your relationship 87 00:05:54,040 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 1: with this movie? Um? Oh boy? So you know, Matilda 88 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: was like a very treasured film like when I was 89 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: growing up. It was one of the ones that we 90 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:10,360 Speaker 1: had on VHS definitely, and that in like the Lindsay 91 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 1: Lohan parent trap. We're on like constant rotation in my 92 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 1: hand like house with like my little sister, and you know, 93 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 1: it was really funny because I hadn't seen it in 94 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: a really long time. And then we were talking about 95 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: like coming back on the show and I was like 96 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: trying to think of movies and I saw that like 97 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: Matilda was now on Canadian Netflix. I was like, oh 98 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: my god, we should do Matilda. And it was literally 99 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: the first time that I'd watched it probably in like 100 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 1: twenty years, and all of a sudden had this like 101 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: a piphany moment, was like, oh my god, I think 102 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 1: this movie is why I'm gay, Like like, oh, this 103 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 1: is my route, um because and we'll get I'm sure 104 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: we'll talk more about that. But like, rediscovering this film 105 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: as an adult in the last you know, month or 106 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 1: so has been a real trip. It's not me really 107 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: reevaluate do a lot of things about myself in a 108 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: positive way. Like I'm like, I say, I hope in 109 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: a good way. Yeah, yeah, you know. And I'm like, oh, 110 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: maybe this is where I learned things because like, again, 111 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: you know, there is a lot of like messaging in 112 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: this film about how television is bad. But I also 113 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 1: feel like, at least for our generation, I was really 114 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: raised by TV, like you know, so I'm like, maybe 115 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: I was also a bookish kid who didn't really have friends. 116 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: I was also a kid who had you know, abusive 117 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: parents who didn't understand me. I was like, maybe maybe 118 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 1: this is Matilda is the reason Matilda's like why I 119 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: became an educator or like yeah, I don't know. Yeah, 120 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: so I so it's very near and dear to my 121 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: heart in in a lot of ways. Um yeah, that's 122 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: that's sort of my history with it. Was like I 123 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: loved as a kid, didn't see it for a real 124 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: long time, watched it again and was like, no, I'm 125 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 1: reformulating my personality around this movie and so much as 126 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: coming into focus. Indeed, indeed, Jamie, what's your relationship with Matilda? 127 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: I can't believe I'm saying this, but I have never 128 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 1: seen this movie before, which is so bizarre to me 129 00:08:11,520 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: because it's like I'm in the right age range to 130 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: have seen it, Like I think everyone I know is 131 00:08:18,040 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: seen it. I think that it had to do with 132 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: my mom didn't like Rolled. I don't know. I feel 133 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,040 Speaker 1: like there's over the years on the show, I've just 134 00:08:25,080 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: discovered all of these bizarre rules that my mom imposed 135 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: on our media diets, just based on her personal preferences, 136 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 1: where she's like, I don't like Rolled Doll adaptations, they're gross, 137 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,719 Speaker 1: and therefore I think it was just she was like, 138 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: these movies are too sticky and you can't watch them. 139 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: I mean, let's get sticky. I wasn't allowed to watch 140 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: Um Charlie and the Chocolate Factory either, so and I 141 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: don't even think it was allowed. It's just like it 142 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: wasn't around, it wasn't available because my mom thought it 143 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: was gross. So I've never seen this movie before, and 144 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, I wish I had seen it because 145 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: it would have, um, it would have made me so happy. 146 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: I really, I really really loved I mean, there's plenty 147 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,199 Speaker 1: to talk about, but there's also so much joy in 148 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: this movie, and like you can just tell in the 149 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: production of the movie as well. It was just such 150 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: a great I watched the movie three times to prepare, 151 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: which was not necessary, but I just was enjoying it 152 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 1: so much. And then I was like having a tough 153 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 1: couple of weeks, and I kept coming back to it 154 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 1: because it made me feel good about the world. And 155 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 1: so yeah, and also I feel like we should, I mean, 156 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: we at the betele cast have an extreme Maura Wilson 157 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: bias because yes, Maura Wilson is a friend of the cast. 158 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: So also you know, we're we're always tipping the scales 159 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: in Mara's favor. That's true. Check out the episode we 160 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: recorded on ELF couple of years ago featuring Mara. So yeah, 161 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: this was my first time seeing it and seeing it 162 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: and seeing it and it makes me so happy to watch. 163 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: So I'm so glad we got to talk about it. 164 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: What about you, Kitalin, Yeah, um, my relationship is fairly limited. Actually, 165 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:12,760 Speaker 1: I had seen it as a kid. I remember there 166 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: was some VHS that we owned that had remember when, 167 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: like VHS has had trailers for other movies that were 168 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: coming out around the time. I forget what one it was, 169 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:27,920 Speaker 1: but I've seen the like teaser or whatever for this 170 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:33,840 Speaker 1: movie hundreds of times for whatever VHS that teaser was on. 171 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: I don't remember which movie it was, so I've seen 172 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: the trailer a million times. But um, I had only 173 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: seen this movie probably once or twice as a kid, 174 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 1: so and it was so long ago that I might 175 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: as well not have really seen it. But then I 176 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: did kind of take it upon myself to watch it 177 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 1: as an adult within the past year because I figured 178 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: we'd cover it at some point soon, and I was like, oh, 179 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: I should like reacquaint myself with this movie. And I did, 180 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 1: and I was, yeah, like pleasantly surprised by how sweet 181 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: and compelling it is, and how there's a lot to 182 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,679 Speaker 1: talk about, as per always with every movie, absolutely, and 183 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: it's like it's one of those things that like Jamie 184 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,920 Speaker 1: you mentioned too, like there's a lot to talk about 185 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 1: just in the film itself, but like also behind the 186 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: scenes as well, like and a lot of like contexty 187 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: sort of stuff that, like, you know, on the surface, 188 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: it's like, oh, this is like a beloved children's film, 189 00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: but there's actually there's so much there and there was 190 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,160 Speaker 1: so much going on to even like bring it into existence, 191 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 1: like have it exist as a film. Yeah, it's pretty cool. 192 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: I was really surprised you guys hadn't done it yet. 193 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 1: So I'm super happy that, like we get a chance 194 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 1: to chat about it because it's one of the few 195 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: or I don't I don't have like the best. I'd 196 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: have to like do a thorough study on this, but 197 00:11:58,880 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 1: I feel like so many movies, like kids movies, like 198 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: family oriented movies from this era and like a little earlier, 199 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: like the eighties and nineties, we're focused on little boys. Um, 200 00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,680 Speaker 1: and it feels like this is one of the few 201 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: from that era that features a little girl. So and 202 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: they still, I mean they still skew very heavily on 203 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: like when they do focus on little girls, it's usually 204 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: little white girls. But I'm like the movies that come 205 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: to mind from this era, I feel, let me know 206 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 1: if I'm missing anything. But it's like Matilda, Harriet the Spy, 207 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: a Little Princess, uh Lindsay Low and parent Trap is 208 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: that it is there. Yeah, definitely. I Mean if you 209 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: could include all the amazing Mary Kayton Ashley movies, that's 210 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: true there, and then there's five hundred movies about girlhood 211 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:55,719 Speaker 1: that's very true. That's very true. Like, but it's it's 212 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: really interesting in terms of that because I still feel 213 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: like to a certain degree that's still the case. Like 214 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: I think it's changing, but like I think about like 215 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: the young people in my life, nieces and nephews and 216 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,920 Speaker 1: like friends of kids and things like that, and like 217 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: if I'm looking to like give them any kind of media, 218 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: whether it's a book or a movie or something that 219 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: like a lot of times it's really like I don't know, 220 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 1: I feel really hard pressed to find like stories that 221 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: are about like little girls that aren't like princesses or 222 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: aren't white, or aren't sort of you know, like upper 223 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: middle class. And so you know, there's like certain ways 224 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: that that that like, you know, we'll get into it, 225 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: Like there's certain ways that like I think there's you know, 226 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: playing to criticize with Matilda, but like I also think 227 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 1: that there's like certain ways that it sticks out as 228 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 1: like being so unique just out sticky, sticky. Sorry, it's 229 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: stickies in your memory. Um, whoever like listens to this 230 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 1: episode and tallies up how many time we say stick 231 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:00,640 Speaker 1: or sticky or make reference to like it's get sticky, 232 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,680 Speaker 1: like should have been some kind of prise, a big 233 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: bottle of goo. Yeah you're welcome. Yeah. Um, but like yeah, 234 00:14:16,040 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: like I think we've until this sort of like still 235 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: sticks out like in the landscape of children's media because 236 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: of that, like she's not a princess, and like there's 237 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: like some good values that are still sort of like 238 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: in the film that like make it really repiled a 239 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: still show to young people. Yeah. Yeah, I think for 240 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: the most part it holds up in in way more 241 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 1: ways than I was expecting it to. I mean, just 242 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 1: even the core message that there's a little girl who 243 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: is smart and the fact that she's smart makes her 244 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 1: more compassionate instead of less. I feel like you see 245 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: the opposite message telegraphed a lot and there I just 246 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: love her, and and all the messages are of about 247 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 1: like chosen family. Um, you know, all the messages to 248 00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: around like having like a strong sense of justice. Um, 249 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: I think are like really really interesting because like even 250 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: before Matilda really gets like a hold of her powers, 251 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: you know, she's like telling her dad, you know, like 252 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: you're a crook, You're doing the wrong thing. The cops 253 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 1: are like watching that, Like Paul Rubens is outside, is 254 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 1: outside dad, and he's being a camera bro like he's 255 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: like but like yeah, so so like you know, there's 256 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: like there's things like that that I think are really cool, 257 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:41,760 Speaker 1: you know, to like teach kids. It's like, yeah, if 258 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: you feel like something is wrong, it's probably wrong, you know, 259 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: like and you have a right to sort of say that. 260 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: And with Miss Honey's storyline is like so much of 261 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: her story progressing is dependent on her believing Matilda and 262 00:15:56,480 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 1: taking her seriously, like we'reking for a little while she 263 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: doesn't believe Matilda, she's sort of like, okay, pass around 264 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: the head, and it's like, you know, sends her on 265 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: her way, much like the song sends her on her way. Uh. 266 00:16:13,360 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: But then when she believes Matilda and does realize you know, 267 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: that she's right, she does have these powers, and that 268 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: ends upsetting Miss Honey free as well. I like the 269 00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 1: damn movie. It's nice. Yeah, let's take a quick break 270 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:41,120 Speaker 1: and then come right back to recap it and we're back. Okay, 271 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 1: So here is the story of Matilda. We open on 272 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: a newborn baby, as well as voiceover from Danny DeVito. 273 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: But this is Danny DeVitto the narrator, not Danny DeVito 274 00:16:55,760 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: the character. They're two different things. But Danny DeVito is 275 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: talking about how everyone is born, but some people are 276 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: born special. Then we meet Danny DeVito the character a 277 00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:15,440 Speaker 1: k a. Harry Wormwood. Not confusing at all, not confusing 278 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: at all, but iconic. Like opening show, like, the introduction 279 00:17:19,560 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: to Harry Wormwood is like kids make grimacing at a 280 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,919 Speaker 1: bunch of babies, you know, like you do, totally normal 281 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: for an adult man just to like be making that 282 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 1: face out a bunch of newborns. Yeah yeah. And then 283 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: he sees his daughter and he's like, I guess I 284 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,440 Speaker 1: also love like the whole sort of like there are 285 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: two genders, pink babies and blue babies. I mean, unfortunately, 286 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: something that so many people still subscribe to. There's a store, 287 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: there's a store for babies down the street for me 288 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: that's literally called the Pink in the Blue. How embarrassing 289 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: for them? Yeah, okay, So we meet Harry Wormwood and 290 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: his wife, Zinnia played by Ria Pearlman. They take home 291 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 1: their newborn daughter Matilda, who they barely pay attention to 292 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: because they're selfish and they're not nice people. And also 293 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 1: Ria Pearlman's outfits are really good. Oh, I mean actually 294 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: all like the everyone's outfit in this movie. I feel 295 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: like the like the Wormwoodes, even though you know their mean, 296 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,520 Speaker 1: mean mean, their outfits are the ones that I want 297 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: the most. I don't want the good guy's outfits. No, 298 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: like Miss Honey for all of her virtues, essentially just 299 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,880 Speaker 1: wear his beige the whole movie. Yeah, I'm just like, 300 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: oh the virtuous must wear beige. No, let the virtuous 301 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: wear Pearlman's outfit. Yes, like her bingo jacket, her jacket 302 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:57,840 Speaker 1: bingos and rhind stones on the back, And I'm like, 303 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: I want that jacket, that jacket. I hope that someone's 304 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 1: taking good care of that jacket. I hope Rea Pearlman 305 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:08,040 Speaker 1: still wears it. I hope she does do. Apparently she 306 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: went to like when her and Danny Vido, you know, 307 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: we're starting to work in the movie. Apparently she went 308 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 1: to Las Vegas to buy all these clothes and it 309 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,880 Speaker 1: was like part of her personal wardrobe that she wore 310 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 1: on set. So I was so I really do hope 311 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,119 Speaker 1: that like she does have that jacket and breaks it 312 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: out for special occasions because it is so perfect. I 313 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,800 Speaker 1: forgot that she and Danny DeVito got divorced, and then 314 00:19:31,840 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 1: I remembered, and then it made me for around. But 315 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: I didn't even know they were married until I was 316 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: like reading about this movie they're iconically married. I guess 317 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: I had no idea about Danny DeVito's personal life, nor 318 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: did I really know who Rea Perlman was. My bad 319 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: I stand for one as like as as a comedy, 320 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 1: as a fashion icon. Um. But yeah, apparently they're still 321 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: very good friends. They have stayed very close, so that 322 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,840 Speaker 1: like makes me happy. That kind of makes up for 323 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: the fact that they separated. Yeah, I just want them 324 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,719 Speaker 1: to be happy. They seem like such I've not heard. 325 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: I hope that I haven't missed something, but I've I've 326 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 1: never heard a bad word about either of them. They 327 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,320 Speaker 1: both seem so lovely. No, and that's something maybe like 328 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: I don't know what we should like Caitlin maybe finished 329 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 1: the recap, but that's something we should definitely talk about 330 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:28,119 Speaker 1: because I feel like Danny DeVito, shall we say, almost 331 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:30,919 Speaker 1: like unproblematic king Like I feel like, I don't know, 332 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: I'm problematic King, short King. The list goes on. Hopefully 333 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,840 Speaker 1: this episode age as well in that regard, because as 334 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: of for this recording, unproblematic King who seems to be 335 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: beloved by a But we've been fooled before. Yes that's true, 336 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: that's true. But he just like got banned from Twitter 337 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: like two weeks ago for supporting like Nibisco workers being 338 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,679 Speaker 1: on strike. So like him, Oh my god, I didn't 339 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: know that, I know, right, like Danny, and he was 340 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: like openly calling likely being like, yeah, America is pretty racist. 341 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 1: Like before it was like okay to be woke. He 342 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: was like, yeah, this is a pretty racist country. So 343 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, loke King added to the list. We'll see 344 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: if he's a sticky king. Oh we get to the 345 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: end of the I'm gonna hazard a guest and say 346 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: he is a sticky king. Okay. So Matilda gets a 347 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 1: bit older. She developed a lot of exceptional skills. She's 348 00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: very independent, she can cook for herself at a very 349 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,040 Speaker 1: young age. She's very good at reading by age like four, 350 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: and then she starts going to the library every day 351 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,200 Speaker 1: and reads tons and tons of books. Then she gets 352 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: a little older six and a half and becomes Marl Wilson. 353 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,080 Speaker 1: She wants to go to school, but her parents refused 354 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: to send her to school, which I'm pretty sure is illegal. 355 00:21:55,160 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: She then starts to retaliate against her dad. She pulls 356 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,920 Speaker 1: a lot of hair based pranks. Basically switches some bottles 357 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: around so that he accidentally bleaches his hair. Then she 358 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: superglues his hat to his head. I didn't realize that 359 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: they were all hair based pranks. Yeah, good hair pranks. Yeah, 360 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:15,600 Speaker 1: good hair pranks. But like, I don't think she really 361 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:17,640 Speaker 1: like pranks her mom, Like, I don't think she really 362 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: pranks in it's mostly directed at her dad, which that 363 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:25,160 Speaker 1: is maybe something worth discussing later on. But as far 364 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:31,560 Speaker 1: as like the child abuse that Matilda is the survivor of, 365 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: it does mostly seem to be at the hand of 366 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 1: her dad, where even though her mom is extremely neglectful 367 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 1: and you know, not a great parent and not nice 368 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 1: or affectionate towards Matilda and like certainly turning her head 369 00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: the other way, I mean, because she's aware that abuse 370 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: is happening. Yes, for sure, she's enabling that situation to 371 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:53,959 Speaker 1: go on, you know. But there were a few there 372 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:57,000 Speaker 1: were several scenes where like she's like, Okay, I'm leaving 373 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 1: the house six year old Matilda to go play bingo 374 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: if you want some chicken nuggets there in the microwave. 375 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:08,720 Speaker 1: Like she seems a bit more pleasant at least, so yeah, 376 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: I guess Matilda spares her from hair based pranks. Hair 377 00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: based pranks. Then one night Harry rips up Matilda's library 378 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: book and forces her to watch TV, and then the 379 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 1: TV explodes, and it seems like maybe it was just 380 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,000 Speaker 1: a coincidence or maybe she made the TV explode with 381 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:38,640 Speaker 1: her mind. We don't know, you think, is it a 382 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: carry situation? Wow? This is I didn't even think of that, 383 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 1: But this is kind of like the family friendly comedy 384 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: version of carry. Yeah yeah, But like fire Starter, there's 385 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 1: a lot of like abused kids developed tell the Connecticut 386 00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,640 Speaker 1: stories out there, you know, like it's a popular drop 387 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,239 Speaker 1: like if only Carrie had a stronger inherent sense of 388 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 1: justice things, maybe things would have gone a little different, 389 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: or at least there was like more sort of like 390 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: hamming it up. You know, there's just more hamming it 391 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: up and carry pratfalls. You know, we've always said about 392 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: Carrie here at the balls not sticky enough. I was 393 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: just gonna say the main problem with Carrie not enough stickiness. 394 00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:28,879 Speaker 1: I don't know, it gets pretty sticky. It sounds like 395 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: it's not not a sticky movie, but just not quite 396 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: where we needed to be. I mean, she gets blood 397 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: dumped on her. That's that's pretty sticky. That's pretty stick 398 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:46,240 Speaker 1: Could be stickier though, could be? Could be That's my 399 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 1: impression of a Hollywood executive justifying their presence. I don't know. 400 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: So we think it's sticky enough, maybe we should reshoot it. 401 00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: That's me working at Marvel. Sticky enough, I don't know anyways. 402 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 1: That would be one million dollars please, Yeah, I think 403 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: I think this ending is really touching, but it would 404 00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,920 Speaker 1: be better if she could get gacked, you know, just slime. 405 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,879 Speaker 1: What if everyone got just climbed at the end of 406 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 1: the Venger's endgame. I'm just spitballing here. Would be one 407 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: million dollars. Oh goodness, I might actually go see those movies, right. 408 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:23,679 Speaker 1: I feel like I would be way more engaged in 409 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:27,480 Speaker 1: the lore if they just slimbed characters at moments that 410 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 1: I was supposed to be paying attention, and then I'm like, oh, 411 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 1: I'm back, you know, yeah, I'm in I mean, Spider 412 00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 1: Man is is pretty sticky, so Spider Man also sticky. 413 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: It works for me, that's why. Maybe that's why we're 414 00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 1: drawn to the Spider Man movies over the other ones. 415 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: Or is it because of Alfred Molina? Is dot com 416 00:25:47,200 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: something to Alfred Molina could have been Harry Wormwood. He 417 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: could have been Harry Wormwood. Dan Indvida doesn't a fantastic job, 418 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: but I could also picture Alfred Billion in that role. 419 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: At the very least, Alfred should be doing the voice her. 420 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 1: So it's a separate voice, then it's less confusing. Yeah, absolutely, Okay. 421 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 1: So the next day, Agatha trunch Bowl played by Pam Ferris. 422 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: She's the principle of Cruncham Hall Elementary School. She buys 423 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,919 Speaker 1: a car from Harry Wormwood and she also tells him 424 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,360 Speaker 1: about all the disciplinary actions she takes against children at 425 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: her school. So, based on this, Harry decides to send 426 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:33,360 Speaker 1: Matilda to this school that looks like a prison for children. Yes, exactly. 427 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 1: So Matilda goes to her first day of school, where 428 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: she meets a new friend, Lavender, and where she watches 429 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: Principal trunch Bowl terrorize the small children, including flinging a 430 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 1: tiny adorable little girl around by her pigtails and then 431 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: tossing her over a fence. The practical effects in this 432 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 1: movie are very impressive and make me miss practical effects. 433 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,680 Speaker 1: Although it sounds like the actor who played Miss trunch 434 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: Bull got extremely injured. She got injured the climactic scene. Yes, 435 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 1: and I think that little girl not as badly injured 436 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: as you might know. She got injured she like cut 437 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: her finger on something, so it was not good, but 438 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,560 Speaker 1: that was like white. She got flug over it. Apparently 439 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: it required stitches, so it wasn't like it wasn't a 440 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,800 Speaker 1: huge deal, but it wasn't like a no big deal 441 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 1: kind of thing. Okay, so maybe maybe I'll think on that. 442 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 1: Apparently too, it was like the little girl who actually 443 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,399 Speaker 1: did all ended up doing all the stunts because they 444 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,600 Speaker 1: had somebody there to do stunts for her. And one 445 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,159 Speaker 1: thing I was reading was talking about how she loved 446 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: like she was nine and like being in that harness 447 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 1: and getting like flung around was so much fun that 448 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: she was like, no, I'll do I'll I'll do my 449 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 1: own stunts. That's a regular tom cruise. Absolutely Okay. So 450 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 1: then Matilda meets her teacher, Miss Honey played by Mbeth David's, 451 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: who is basically wearing a burlap sack because she's one 452 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 1: of the good guys and she is very sweet and nice. 453 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:26,160 Speaker 1: Huge juxtaposition against trunch Bowl. Miss Honey sees how brilliant 454 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: Matilda is. For example, Matilda can multiply big numbers in 455 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: her head and she's like, Wow, this student is brilliant. 456 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: She goes to principal trunch Bowl and to Matilda's family 457 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 1: to advocate for her education, but they don't want to 458 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:47,200 Speaker 1: hear about it. Then we get the cake scene where 459 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: trunch Bowl makes a student named Bruce bog Trotter eat 460 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: an entire chocolate cake while the whole school watches and uh, 461 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: we'll talk about that my nightmare night. And I was like, God, yeah, 462 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,880 Speaker 1: well we'll We'll just have to unpack that later, Team Brucie, 463 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: I know. Then trunch Bowl comes into Matilda's class, terrorizes 464 00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 1: the students as usual, and then Matilda seems to use 465 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,720 Speaker 1: telekinesis to fling a newt onto her then tries to 466 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: demonstrate these telekinetic powers to Miss Honey, but they don't 467 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: work when she's put on the spot. Then Miss Honey 468 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: invites Matilda over to her house and tells this story 469 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: about how her parents died when she was young and 470 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: she was raised by her aunt, who is big twist, 471 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: trunch bowl. I didn't see that coming, I treatly did it. Really, 472 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 1: that's so interesting, I think because I had seen this 473 00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: movie so much as a kid, I'm like, oh, the 474 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: big reveal, um, But like, that's pretty interesting that you 475 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: didn't see it coming, Jamie, We'll have to like talk. 476 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,560 Speaker 1: We're about sort of untrench double well not much as foreshadowed. 477 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: There is like some voice over where Danny DeVito is like, 478 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 1: Miss Honey Harbor's this dark secret, but she doesn't let 479 00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: it affect her love of teaching or something like that. 480 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: I just thought that she had been a student of 481 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: Miss trench Bulls, Like I thought that they was clear 482 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:22,880 Speaker 1: that they knew each other, but I didn't. I didn't 483 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 1: pick up on the family connection. So that was a 484 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: very effective whist for me. That makes a lot of 485 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: sense because there is that one moment where I think 486 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: Miss Honey goes to like trench Bull's office when she's like, 487 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,160 Speaker 1: I think Matilda might be happier in an older class, 488 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: and like they're talking at that point and like trench 489 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 1: Poles being like creepily familiar calling her like yeah, like 490 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 1: gen and yeah, right, so that was like that was 491 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 1: always what I thought kind of gave it away, but again, 492 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: like I can't put myself in the position of like 493 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: just seeing it for the first time. Now, so that's 494 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,280 Speaker 1: really interesting, Like yeah cool. So yeah, so we get 495 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 1: that reveal, and then we also learn that like trunch 496 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: Bull now lives in Miss Honey's childhood home and Miss 497 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: Honey lives in this little cottage now, and then they 498 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: go to trunch Bull's house when she's not there to 499 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: take back Miss Honey's childhood treasures, particularly a doll of 500 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: hers Lissie doll Um, which I learned is the first 501 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: name of Roll Doll's widow. Let's see is her name. Yeah, 502 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: we also have to talk about Roll Doll because he's 503 00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: got there's there's a ton of shift on there, semitic yea. 504 00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,520 Speaker 1: His his friends, even the way his friends described him 505 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:39,760 Speaker 1: made me think he was like a man baby edge lord. 506 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,760 Speaker 1: Like you read things that people, Yeah, they're like, oh yeah, 507 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: Roll was like my best friend for forty years, but 508 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,800 Speaker 1: he was terrible. You know, you're like, what like listening 509 00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:52,160 Speaker 1: to it, or like reading accounts of people who knew him, 510 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: you're just like, Wow, I'm so glad that he wasn't 511 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: alive when the Internet existed, like he would have been 512 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: at Nightmare. Imagine the would have sent god, Oh my God. 513 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: The opposite of Danny Devita's Twitter presence would be World 514 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: Doll's Twitter presence. So then Trench Bowl comes back home 515 00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: when Miss Honey and Matilda are still there, and then 516 00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:18,080 Speaker 1: there's this big there's this big game of like cat 517 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: and mouse where she's chasing them around, and then Matilda 518 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: and Miss Honey finally escape. Matilda starts to then practice 519 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: her telekinesis powers, and she gets really good at them, 520 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: So one night she goes back to Trench Bull's house 521 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 1: and uses her powers to rescue Miss Honey's doll and 522 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,760 Speaker 1: to terrorize trench Bowl. But then trench Bull figures out 523 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 1: that it was Matilda who did this because she finds 524 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: her hair ribbon that she left behind. So then the 525 00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 1: next day at school, trench Bull tries to punish Matilda, 526 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,680 Speaker 1: but she again uses her powers to make Trench both 527 00:32:56,760 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: think that Miss Honey's dead dad's go is haunting her 528 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: dead dad, who Trunch bowl. Might have murdered, yes, might 529 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:11,880 Speaker 1: have murdered, almost certainly murdered. Probably did murder. Or it 530 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: was an owl? Maybe? Okay, the staircase. We're back, We're back. Wow, 531 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Kaylin and I used to talk about 532 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: the staircase on Matrian episodes for I forget why we 533 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 1: originally started doing it. But the owl theory not the 534 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: first time the owl theory has been explored on this show. 535 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: And absolutely, absolutely, you know, miss trunch Ball deserves a 536 00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 1: fair trial. We shouldn't use her queerness against her. Yeah, 537 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: exactly could have been an owl? Could have been an owl, 538 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: would have been okay. So Matilda is terrorizing her, and 539 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,280 Speaker 1: then Matilda and the other students run trunch Bull out 540 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: of the school, out of the town. She's never seen 541 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: or heard from again, and so Miss Honey moves back 542 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 1: into her childhood home, Matilda visits her often, and then 543 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,479 Speaker 1: Miss Honey adopts Matilda when her parents announced that they're 544 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: moving to Guam, and Matilda's like, well, I don't want 545 00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: to go. I want to stay here with Miss Honey here. 546 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,800 Speaker 1: I already have the adoption papers. All you have to 547 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:20,960 Speaker 1: do is sign them. So her parents are like sounds 548 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: good to me. And then they leave and then Matilda 549 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:27,640 Speaker 1: and Miss Honey live happily ever after together as a 550 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: loving family, and that is the end of the movie. 551 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,960 Speaker 1: Let's take another quick break and then we'll come back 552 00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: to discuss and we're back. Wo where shall we start? 553 00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,280 Speaker 1: There are so many places. Well, I kind of wanted 554 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 1: to just I like to look at the film as like, 555 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,520 Speaker 1: what's what are his intentions? What is it doing? Since 556 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 1: so many children's movies have some sort of like moral 557 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,799 Speaker 1: moral at the end of the story kind of thing. 558 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: For me, I think as far as like execution, there's 559 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,759 Speaker 1: things to be discussed, but as far as intention, it 560 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 1: seems to me that the message of this movie is 561 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:19,880 Speaker 1: like the celebration of a little girl reading and learning 562 00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,760 Speaker 1: and getting an education and how important that is, and 563 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 1: how I think that's generally a really positive thing to 564 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:30,160 Speaker 1: have in a children's movie. It's a really great thing 565 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,000 Speaker 1: for little girls to see watching this movie, for little 566 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:36,399 Speaker 1: kids of all genders to see. I bet a lot 567 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: of children saw themselves in Matilda and like appreciated her 568 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: thirst for learning. So that is obviously something that's largely 569 00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:53,640 Speaker 1: at play in this movie. There's some I guess baggage 570 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,839 Speaker 1: that comes with that, where there's like weird like kind 571 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: of classism and elitisms stuff tied to this, which we 572 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 1: can get into. But as far as like what the 573 00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:10,880 Speaker 1: movie I think is trying to do, I appreciated the efforts. 574 00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: And I almost wish that I had grown up more 575 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,319 Speaker 1: with this movie and did watch it more as a kid, 576 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,000 Speaker 1: because I think I would have benefited from the message of, like, 577 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: it's really important for little girls to learn and have 578 00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: a thirst for knowledge and a curiosity about the world. 579 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: I totally agree. I feel like Matilda and Harriet the 580 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: Spy kind of go together in my head of like 581 00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:40,800 Speaker 1: movies that have this inherent message that encouraged young kids 582 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 1: in the nineties, uh, particularly girls, to trust their instincts 583 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: to be curious too, and and that there is a 584 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,320 Speaker 1: purpose and meaning to like seeking knowledge and not taking 585 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:58,719 Speaker 1: you know, adults at their word, and and just a lot. 586 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,160 Speaker 1: I I totally agree that this movie seems to come 587 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: from a very good place. And in the process, I 588 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,359 Speaker 1: mean like we're going to inevitably talk about uses, tropes 589 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 1: and stereotyping to get to the good place it's trying 590 00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: to get to. I feel we have. It's kind of 591 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: a rare movie in that regard where I don't feel 592 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:27,799 Speaker 1: completely like as confident in most children's media that it 593 00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: has such a strong core message, which makes it like, 594 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: uh interesting and frustrating that it uses the tropes that 595 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: it does to accomplish a good message, because it ends up, 596 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,719 Speaker 1: you know, kind of weighing it down in this interesting way. 597 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: But I still like, I can't in good faith like 598 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:48,240 Speaker 1: write this movie off entirely, and don't think I ever could, 599 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: because it's so uh it is coming from this this 600 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: very beautiful, encouraging place that I think, you know, Jesse, 601 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,560 Speaker 1: you are alluding to this earlier like that there's still 602 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: not a out of movies that have core messages like 603 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 1: this that are that are this popular in this memorable 604 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,799 Speaker 1: although apparently not in that I didn't realize this movie 605 00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: like flopped at the box office. I always assumed it 606 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: was a huge hit, but it I guess it's like 607 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,240 Speaker 1: it was in its VHS era that it like became 608 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:21,239 Speaker 1: huge because I viewed this as like a ridiculously successful movie, 609 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: which I guess it wasn't. Yeah, that's what was really surprising. Um, 610 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,600 Speaker 1: you know, I think that it was much more successful 611 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,479 Speaker 1: on a critical level perhaps and like at a box 612 00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,160 Speaker 1: office level. Um, but but just you know, coming into it, 613 00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:35,399 Speaker 1: what you're both are saying like uh, and I think 614 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,280 Speaker 1: Harriet the Spy is and also a really good example 615 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: of this. It's also it's not just like you don't 616 00:38:39,560 --> 00:38:41,399 Speaker 1: like trust your instincts and things like that, but it's 617 00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: also like you are the author, like you you have 618 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,480 Speaker 1: control in your world, you have autonomy, Like I think 619 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,640 Speaker 1: they're there. I mean, I don't think that even for 620 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: stories that you know, are geared towards like older women 621 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:01,919 Speaker 1: or older like people of like that aren't just male, 622 00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 1: like I don't think there are a lot of stories 623 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,040 Speaker 1: that sort of give that same sort of message of autonomy, 624 00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 1: like both in Harry the Spy in and Matilda. You know, 625 00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: it's sort of like these young girls who are in 626 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: this position that you know, things are going on that 627 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 1: affect them that they don't have control over, but we 628 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: still see them taking steps and taking measures and like 629 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,239 Speaker 1: being active. And that's a little bit the thing of 630 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,600 Speaker 1: like when Harry yells at Matilda sort of like when 631 00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: a person is bad, you know, instead of saying like 632 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: when a parent or when an adult is bad, and 633 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,640 Speaker 1: like in giving Matilda that key of sort of saying 634 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:39,640 Speaker 1: when a person is bad, he allows her to have 635 00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:42,200 Speaker 1: that autonomy of sort of saying like, oh, okay, well 636 00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,439 Speaker 1: I can then make choices. I don't have to be 637 00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,400 Speaker 1: just passive and have things happen to me in this story, 638 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 1: you know, like so often, you know, you guys talk 639 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:52,719 Speaker 1: about it on the show all the time, you know. 640 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 1: We we sort of get these protagonists that like things 641 00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: happened to them, and then another thing happens to them, 642 00:39:58,480 --> 00:39:59,920 Speaker 1: and then another thing happens to them, but they're not 643 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:01,919 Speaker 1: really choosing at any point in time. And yet here 644 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,359 Speaker 1: we have this story of this young girl. You know, 645 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: we see her from literally like being born up into 646 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,200 Speaker 1: the age of like six and a half, um, you know, 647 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,200 Speaker 1: and being very very active. And I think so much 648 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,600 Speaker 1: of that too, you know, in terms of like how 649 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:21,880 Speaker 1: this adaptation was done, has to really do with the 650 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: fact that there were like a lot of women, a 651 00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:27,040 Speaker 1: lot of parents, a lot of people involved. That like 652 00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:32,200 Speaker 1: we're invested in young women. That sounds like a weird 653 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: way of putting it, but like both Danny DeVito and 654 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: Real Pearlman, as well as Robin Spee Cord and Nicholas Kazan, 655 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,880 Speaker 1: who were the screen the couple who wrote the screenplay, 656 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,640 Speaker 1: Zoe Kazane's parents. I didn't realize. Yeah, both of both 657 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: of those like both of those couples came to the 658 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: book through their daughters. And I think that that like 659 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: shows in the way that the film it did get 660 00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: adapted and the choices that were made, you know, the 661 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 1: things that were changed. There were a lot of male 662 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: characters that are in the book that don't appear in 663 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,720 Speaker 1: the movie. Like the majority of the cast is female. 664 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,359 Speaker 1: You know. It is really like this story that is 665 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:14,120 Speaker 1: like very much focused on empowering Matilda, you know, within 666 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,440 Speaker 1: her world. And I think that that is because you know, 667 00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: like I said, you know, they're coming to this story 668 00:41:19,719 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: the book came out I think at the end of 669 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,560 Speaker 1: the eighties eight nine, you know, so they're coming to 670 00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: as parents themselves, being like, oh, you know, my daughters 671 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: can see themselves in this book, you know, how do 672 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: we recreate that? And Robin see Court is, as you 673 00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:36,239 Speaker 1: probably with No. Two, was like super involved in A 674 00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:40,640 Speaker 1: Little Women just before this as an adaptation. So it's 675 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: like it's also you know a lot of like the 676 00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:46,600 Speaker 1: feminist stuff that happened in The Little Women, you know, 677 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,279 Speaker 1: like that's also a little bit of her influence in there, 678 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: you know, Like so I think that that's like kind 679 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:55,040 Speaker 1: of why the story ends up getting crafted that way. 680 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: Mar Wilson's mom also was like a really big driving 681 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 1: force and getting this movie made. Um because when you're 682 00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,239 Speaker 1: a kid actor, of course, you know, it's like you 683 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 1: have your agent and then you know your parents. Hopefully 684 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,920 Speaker 1: you're making decisions that are in your best interest. And 685 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: Mara was starting to become like had been in a 686 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,000 Speaker 1: couple of things and was starting to like become famous 687 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,920 Speaker 1: or more famous as a child performer. And they were 688 00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: being sent tons and tons of scripts all the time, 689 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, for these like cute little girl parts. Um. 690 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,239 Speaker 1: But Susie Wilson, her mom had Red Matilda with all 691 00:42:35,239 --> 00:42:39,040 Speaker 1: of her kids, was a huge proponent of like reading 692 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,440 Speaker 1: the book, even like at like Mara's school, like in 693 00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: the library to kids and stuff like that. Um. So 694 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,439 Speaker 1: when this script came up, you know, it was like 695 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,839 Speaker 1: mar Wilson I think described as or like her mom 696 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,080 Speaker 1: like left on it was like this one, you know, 697 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: and was like very present on set and the films 698 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,120 Speaker 1: dedicated to her because Unfortunately she passed away shortly after 699 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 1: it was in prosproduction, so like she had just like 700 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:09,880 Speaker 1: such a huge effect, um, and yet she's not necessarily 701 00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,320 Speaker 1: one of the credited names that we think of in 702 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,600 Speaker 1: in terms of this film. But yeah, you know, and 703 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,040 Speaker 1: I think that like because like, you know, as a 704 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:22,920 Speaker 1: working artist, like I think a lot about the intention 705 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: that goes into things when we're making things, right, Like 706 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,640 Speaker 1: filmmaking is is such a team sport, and I think 707 00:43:28,680 --> 00:43:31,759 Speaker 1: so often, you know, we're sort of like especially since 708 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:36,040 Speaker 1: sort of like this era of like at war directors 709 00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 1: and like it's all about sort of like the person 710 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: who's like got that director credit and who's at the 711 00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,680 Speaker 1: head of it. But so often I think that there's 712 00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 1: like all these other influences that are coming into that 713 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,160 Speaker 1: story that are important to acknowledge, because we don't make 714 00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,680 Speaker 1: things in a vacuum, right, So it's it's just as 715 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: much about the who's introducing the idea to who are 716 00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: you talking about the idea with? You know, who are 717 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,560 Speaker 1: you who's helping you with like the design of the film, 718 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,560 Speaker 1: Who's you know, doing all these sort of things. Yeah, 719 00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,600 Speaker 1: but yeah, I think I think that's sort of like 720 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,719 Speaker 1: Lad a pretty good groundwork for the for how the 721 00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:16,240 Speaker 1: film turns out. And by all the accounts I read 722 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:21,400 Speaker 1: about the production, it seemed like everyone had a ball. 723 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:28,800 Speaker 1: Danny DeVito was an angel, good and responsible director, right, Yeah, 724 00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:33,240 Speaker 1: and the kids had fun and the adult actors had fun, 725 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,880 Speaker 1: and yeah that it was like a very pleasant experience 726 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,240 Speaker 1: for everyone involved as far as I could tell. Yeah, 727 00:44:41,400 --> 00:44:45,600 Speaker 1: even like Jamie you mentioned pamp Ferris, who played Agatha 728 00:44:45,640 --> 00:44:50,279 Speaker 1: trench Bowl, even though she had gotten injured and doing 729 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,960 Speaker 1: a couple of the stunts and things like that, Like 730 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,360 Speaker 1: she I was watching an interview which she was talking 731 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,520 Speaker 1: about it, and she was like, you know, I was 732 00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,000 Speaker 1: like trying to stay away from the kids, and I 733 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,680 Speaker 1: was trying to like not have fun because it was 734 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:03,880 Speaker 1: like I was supposed to be there. It's like the 735 00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,440 Speaker 1: trench Bowl in the superintimidating presence. And she was like 736 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 1: after two or three days, like she's like, the kids 737 00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 1: would come up to me and put their like little 738 00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,360 Speaker 1: hands in mind and I couldn't help it, like you know, 739 00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:14,920 Speaker 1: would just be like totally run over and totally sweet, 740 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,759 Speaker 1: and like pam Feris is such a a far cry 741 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,040 Speaker 1: away from like the Trench Bowl it's really it's really 742 00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,680 Speaker 1: quite funny having seen her in other work and being like, 743 00:45:24,719 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe that's the same person. 744 00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:29,920 Speaker 1: I know. I forgot that she was on Marge as 745 00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:34,120 Speaker 1: well in the Harry Potter series because I feel like 746 00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: she we only encounter her as someone who like she's 747 00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:42,920 Speaker 1: very typecast as villainous, and then yeah, we might have 748 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,560 Speaker 1: watched the same the same interview because I was just like, 749 00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: she's so sweet, Like what a her She was in 750 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:54,000 Speaker 1: Called the Midwife too, She plays us none in that 751 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: and Called the Midwife is you know whatever, like it's 752 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,880 Speaker 1: about sisters, religious sisters who are midwives in like London 753 00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: around the Second World War, I think, and like, you know, 754 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 1: spoiler alert, I guess for Called the Midwife fans, but 755 00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:13,440 Speaker 1: like when her character dies on Call the Midwife, like 756 00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:16,040 Speaker 1: there's people who've written entire blogs about like how crush 757 00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,880 Speaker 1: they were about that, Like you know she is, like 758 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,759 Speaker 1: she is this like British character actor who's just like 759 00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:24,400 Speaker 1: so beloved in so many ways. But I feel like 760 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,040 Speaker 1: you're in North America, were like trunch Ball, Like where 761 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 1: do you think she knows Molina another British character actor. 762 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,719 Speaker 1: I want to say. I want to say, yes, yes. 763 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,960 Speaker 1: I wonder if they have any like overlap. Maybe they 764 00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,520 Speaker 1: met at the theater. Who knows, could be very possible 765 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:45,240 Speaker 1: because Pam Fares has done a lot of theater. It's true. 766 00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,600 Speaker 1: I love the idea of Pam Farris, like trying to 767 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: go method on set and then like that lasting for 768 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:53,359 Speaker 1: a couple of days and then she was just like 769 00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,839 Speaker 1: so one over by all the sweet kids and she's like, well, 770 00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,600 Speaker 1: never mind, going method is actually an incredible waste of time. 771 00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:06,040 Speaker 1: Usually yeah, yeah, exactly, Like she's not leaving dead rats 772 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:08,840 Speaker 1: for like the crew to find or anything. She's just like, yeah, 773 00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,080 Speaker 1: like they're these kids are smart, they can they can act, 774 00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: but that's why they're here. Um, there was a little okay, 775 00:47:18,719 --> 00:47:21,799 Speaker 1: So one of the first things that jumped out to me, 776 00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:25,000 Speaker 1: which is like partially based on personal experience, it's like 777 00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,839 Speaker 1: the concept of whatever, the concept of genius is fake, 778 00:47:30,840 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 1: and that I always think is such an interesting I 779 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,280 Speaker 1: almost wish that it had been phrase a little different 780 00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:37,720 Speaker 1: because I think that it's phrased that way in service 781 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:42,320 Speaker 1: of saying Matilda is special. But what makes her special 782 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 1: isn't the fact that she's a genius what makes her 783 00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:49,640 Speaker 1: special is that she is compassionate and uses uses her 784 00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,720 Speaker 1: natural abilities to help other people and to pursue justice. 785 00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: I feel like that, but I don't know that. I 786 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:59,359 Speaker 1: feel like I just have mensa PTSD, and so I'm 787 00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,920 Speaker 1: just like, no, not that word genius with children. It's 788 00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,360 Speaker 1: that's a dark road to go down. Absolutely. And Also 789 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:11,480 Speaker 1: that joke that Harry Wormwood makes about Moby Dick, I 790 00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 1: was like, that was the there are a few moments 791 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: where were like, oh my gosh, that is such a 792 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,920 Speaker 1: nineties children's movie moment where he like kind of implied 793 00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,160 Speaker 1: like he thinks that Moby Dick is about sex or 794 00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 1: something like what iconic bizarre children's joke from the nineties. No. Absolutely, 795 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,800 Speaker 1: Uh well, I mean we can talk about it. I 796 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,520 Speaker 1: mean I think it's interesting to sort of look at, 797 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:40,560 Speaker 1: you know, bringing up the idea of genius, bringing up 798 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: sort of like the idea of exceptionalism, and how like 799 00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,239 Speaker 1: that comes into like the class conversation that we could 800 00:48:46,239 --> 00:48:51,040 Speaker 1: have in Matilda. Because I also, as much as I 801 00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,799 Speaker 1: love and that's not even like too strong a word, 802 00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:57,560 Speaker 1: as much as I love like Harry and Zenia Wormwood, like, 803 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:03,400 Speaker 1: despite their horrible nous are so like spot on the 804 00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:07,359 Speaker 1: way that they're characterized is like, you know, we get 805 00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,640 Speaker 1: that sort of first line at the very beginning where 806 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,960 Speaker 1: it's like they live in a nice neighborhood, they have 807 00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:14,319 Speaker 1: very nice things. They're not very nice people. You know, 808 00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,680 Speaker 1: we're set up to sort of understand them as being 809 00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:22,719 Speaker 1: villainous based on their values, and when we take a 810 00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,840 Speaker 1: look at what those values are, you know, they love money, 811 00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:31,359 Speaker 1: they love consumerism, they love TV, sticky stuff, they love 812 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,440 Speaker 1: sticky stuff, they like, they eat, they eat micro We 813 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:37,960 Speaker 1: have dinners in front of the TV every night, like 814 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:41,200 Speaker 1: that's their family time, you know. And I feel like 815 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:44,920 Speaker 1: characterizing this like also the fact that like Harry Warmwood 816 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,080 Speaker 1: is like I used car salesman who's like buying and 817 00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:52,880 Speaker 1: selling like stolen cars. Um. You know, I feel like 818 00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: if they were poor, then they'd be considered white trash, 819 00:49:57,280 --> 00:50:00,319 Speaker 1: you know. And I think that like I'm I'm not 820 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 1: entirely sure what we're supposed to take away from that, 821 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, because and also that characterization of white trash 822 00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,719 Speaker 1: is like garbage, and and you know, I hope that 823 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,359 Speaker 1: I don't offend anybody but using that term, but like 824 00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:13,759 Speaker 1: I know what you mean, but like it's sort of 825 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:18,120 Speaker 1: like this idea that even though they're you know, they 826 00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,800 Speaker 1: have achieved a certain level of like status and wealth, 827 00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:27,279 Speaker 1: they're lacking middle class of values which would make them 828 00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:29,799 Speaker 1: part of like the in group of their peers, like 829 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,799 Speaker 1: you know, no other homes even in that neighborhood. Like 830 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: when they're doing like the shot of like the car 831 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 1: pulling and look like their home. You know, they've got 832 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:42,279 Speaker 1: like lawn ornaments and it's like very retro looking. You know. 833 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:45,680 Speaker 1: So even as the villains though they're they're placed a 834 00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:50,319 Speaker 1: sort of like very outside of their peer group to say, 835 00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:52,720 Speaker 1: like or like when they go to the fancy restaurant too, 836 00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:55,279 Speaker 1: you know, and there's all sorts of buffoonery that kind 837 00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:56,920 Speaker 1: of goes along, you know, and zinnias. They're going in 838 00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,040 Speaker 1: like take your hat off, Like we're in a nice place, 839 00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: take your hat off. You know. There's this desire to 840 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: be acceptable, but they perpetually miss the mark and talking 841 00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,080 Speaker 1: about sort of like what middle class values mean in 842 00:51:11,080 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: like this sort of sense, it's like hard working, self disciplined, 843 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 1: thrift nous like honesty, white, able bodied Protestant, like respectable conformism, patriotism. Yeah, 844 00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:26,360 Speaker 1: exactly patriotism. You know, they're fleeing to Guam, but the 845 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:28,640 Speaker 1: Guam is a U S territory. The FBI can get 846 00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:31,640 Speaker 1: you there, like but like the yeah, like I feel 847 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,680 Speaker 1: like they don't know that, and like the reason that 848 00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:36,719 Speaker 1: this matters, I think in the film comes back to 849 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,399 Speaker 1: sort of this idea of like why, you know, why 850 00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:41,800 Speaker 1: are we calling Mattila a genius? Like why are we 851 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,360 Speaker 1: putting that out there? Like is because there's like certain 852 00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:50,000 Speaker 1: like social markers, certain cues that I think we're setting 853 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,800 Speaker 1: up from the very beginning about like who you should 854 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,400 Speaker 1: like and why you should like them, and you shouldn't 855 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,800 Speaker 1: like the warm words because they chafe against middle class 856 00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:02,080 Speaker 1: values before we even know that they are terrible people, 857 00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:06,000 Speaker 1: right you know what I mean? Yeah, there's I was 858 00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:08,759 Speaker 1: a little I feel like there's some dissonance with the 859 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:13,960 Speaker 1: way the Wormwoods are characterized because on one hand, you 860 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:19,720 Speaker 1: know that there villainous because they're selfish and they neglect 861 00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:24,920 Speaker 1: and abuse their daughter, and Harry is very unethical in 862 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:27,080 Speaker 1: the way that he conducts his business and and of 863 00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:29,400 Speaker 1: like part of his villainy there is that he is 864 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,760 Speaker 1: not like taking from the rich, he's taking from people 865 00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:37,720 Speaker 1: who have less money than it. He's exploiting exactly. And 866 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,359 Speaker 1: so there's all these things that, like us watching this 867 00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,960 Speaker 1: movie are like, yes, clear signals, clear markers that he's 868 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:48,000 Speaker 1: a villain. But then there's this other component that kind 869 00:52:48,000 --> 00:52:51,520 Speaker 1: of comes into this classism elitist thing, and it's like 870 00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,200 Speaker 1: kind of education based where the movie subscribes to this 871 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:58,440 Speaker 1: thing where people who are highly educated and who have 872 00:52:58,600 --> 00:53:03,000 Speaker 1: a job that requires a lot of education equals good. Um. 873 00:53:03,040 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 1: This is most clearly demonstrated with miss Honey with her 874 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:09,640 Speaker 1: kind of job and position and her just sort of 875 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,720 Speaker 1: valuing getting in education, getting in higher education. She even 876 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:15,880 Speaker 1: has this little monologue where she's like, you know, if 877 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:18,200 Speaker 1: you were to get sick, the doctor you go to 878 00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:21,400 Speaker 1: would have gone to college. If you get sued for 879 00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:25,400 Speaker 1: selling a faulty car, the lawyer you hire would have 880 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:29,400 Speaker 1: gone to college. A k A like quote unquote important 881 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:34,000 Speaker 1: people with quote unquote important jobs go to college versus 882 00:53:34,520 --> 00:53:37,200 Speaker 1: people who don't go to college and who have a 883 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,640 Speaker 1: job that does not require college education equals bad according 884 00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:44,920 Speaker 1: to the movie, such as Matilda's parents, Like again, her 885 00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:48,160 Speaker 1: dad is like a car salesman who says he didn't 886 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:50,719 Speaker 1: go to college. Her mother plays bingo all day. She 887 00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,120 Speaker 1: says she didn't go to college. Um, there's the lunch 888 00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,040 Speaker 1: lady who is presented in such a way, and she 889 00:53:57,080 --> 00:53:58,600 Speaker 1: has such a small part in the movie, but she's 890 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,240 Speaker 1: presented in such a way that like the movie wants 891 00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:06,040 Speaker 1: you to think she's grotesque because she's working class person, 892 00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:11,200 Speaker 1: working class older woman. Like, yeah, and this movie has 893 00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 1: an issue with older women. That will get to write 894 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:20,000 Speaker 1: the exception here is miss trunch Bull, who would have 895 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,560 Speaker 1: to be highly educated to be a school principle. But 896 00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:28,600 Speaker 1: in theory, I don't understand how she takes over cruncham Hall, 897 00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,440 Speaker 1: Like I think that that's like specifically vague, like, but 898 00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:37,560 Speaker 1: because she the way she conducts her professional life, she 899 00:54:37,640 --> 00:54:40,759 Speaker 1: doesn't seem to care about education. She does not even 900 00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:43,120 Speaker 1: though she's a principal of the school. She's more concerned 901 00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:48,200 Speaker 1: about abusing children and terrorizing children then she is about 902 00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,400 Speaker 1: children having an education. So the movie subscribed to this 903 00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:53,680 Speaker 1: thing where it's like if you see the value in education, 904 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,719 Speaker 1: which like kind of in theory or just like inherently 905 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:01,920 Speaker 1: like obviously education is good in learning things is good, 906 00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:04,200 Speaker 1: but this idea that like you have to go to 907 00:55:04,320 --> 00:55:09,799 Speaker 1: college to be worth anything is classist and elitist and 908 00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:13,319 Speaker 1: and and it would be somewhat not completely at all, 909 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,160 Speaker 1: but it would be a somewhat of a different discussion 910 00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:20,239 Speaker 1: if the concept of higher education weren't inherently tied to money, right, 911 00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:23,440 Speaker 1: and tied to class and and there are all these 912 00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean well documented, we can't possibly cover them all here, 913 00:55:27,040 --> 00:55:31,279 Speaker 1: but issues with access to higher education and who it's 914 00:55:31,280 --> 00:55:34,520 Speaker 1: available to versus who it isn't And so yeah, I 915 00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,279 Speaker 1: kind of like it's so cooked into the story that 916 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:40,319 Speaker 1: I can't I couldn't really think of a way to 917 00:55:40,480 --> 00:55:43,879 Speaker 1: fully remove it. By I thought it was like, it's 918 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,800 Speaker 1: such an important choice in terms of the movie working 919 00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,680 Speaker 1: where I feel like a lot of the classism and 920 00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,560 Speaker 1: elitism could have been removed from me if that idea 921 00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:57,080 Speaker 1: was just sort of simplified to like in curiosity about 922 00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,200 Speaker 1: the world around totally. But because they take get a 923 00:56:00,239 --> 00:56:02,840 Speaker 1: step further and say that if you do not pursue 924 00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:06,400 Speaker 1: higher education or if you're not highly educated, you must 925 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:14,400 Speaker 1: be an incurious villain that like like evil, right, abusive, etcetera. Absolutely, 926 00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:17,560 Speaker 1: which it would have satisfied me if the Wormwood parents 927 00:56:17,760 --> 00:56:21,840 Speaker 1: were just incurious people. But it isn't it. It's tied 928 00:56:21,880 --> 00:56:24,839 Speaker 1: to class and it's tied to I think it's going 929 00:56:24,840 --> 00:56:26,759 Speaker 1: back to what you were saying just about how they're 930 00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:31,120 Speaker 1: kind of characterized as visually as like quote unquote white trash. 931 00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,360 Speaker 1: It seems like their intellectual in curiosity is tied to class, 932 00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,600 Speaker 1: it's tied to their appearance, and it's saying people like this, 933 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:41,640 Speaker 1: you know, people like this aren't worth as much as 934 00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,080 Speaker 1: people like you know, miss Honey. And I think the 935 00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,960 Speaker 1: visual language of the film can't be you know, overlooked 936 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:49,920 Speaker 1: because it is it is a children's film, you know, 937 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:51,680 Speaker 1: so there is like a lot of simplification of the 938 00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,800 Speaker 1: narrative that ends up being transmitted on a visual level, 939 00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:59,960 Speaker 1: because you know, it's sometimes it's easier to communicate those ideas, 940 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,560 Speaker 1: is of like you know, this is you know good 941 00:57:02,600 --> 00:57:05,040 Speaker 1: and this is bad. That's also you know, like a 942 00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,080 Speaker 1: in Kately you can probably speak to this from like 943 00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,200 Speaker 1: a screenwriting level. You know, you have to have tension 944 00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:11,279 Speaker 1: in script, you have to have like the white hat 945 00:57:11,360 --> 00:57:14,520 Speaker 1: and the black hat. You know. Like but I think 946 00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,160 Speaker 1: the way that people are stylized in this film, you know, 947 00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,560 Speaker 1: and even just to talk about fatness a little bit 948 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:22,520 Speaker 1: which which I'm sure we'll get to, but yeah, it's 949 00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,160 Speaker 1: relying on really really tired tropes, you know, like and 950 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: we made the joke sort of about like, you know, 951 00:57:27,400 --> 00:57:29,440 Speaker 1: where his pages the whole movie she's wearing essentially like 952 00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:32,919 Speaker 1: a potato sack um. You know. In the book, there's 953 00:57:32,920 --> 00:57:35,120 Speaker 1: a lot more context given around that, about the fact 954 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,720 Speaker 1: that like Ms. Trench Puple is like garnishing her wages 955 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:41,840 Speaker 1: and that she's actually quite poor and that's why she's 956 00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,000 Speaker 1: living in a farmer's shed. You know. The cottage that 957 00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:47,520 Speaker 1: we see in the film is quite lovely, like I 958 00:57:47,560 --> 00:57:49,960 Speaker 1: would love to live in that little cottage, full on 959 00:57:50,080 --> 00:57:55,720 Speaker 1: like Instagram cottage, like yeah, you know, it's gorgeous. Um. 960 00:57:55,760 --> 00:57:58,200 Speaker 1: But like in the book, she's living in a farmer's 961 00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,280 Speaker 1: shed for a dollar a week or like a hound 962 00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 1: a week, because of course she works at trench Ball School, 963 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:06,560 Speaker 1: so trench Ball controls how much money she gets paid, 964 00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,200 Speaker 1: and so she's you know, so there's like there is 965 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,240 Speaker 1: like a you know, if her parents was very plain 966 00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:15,680 Speaker 1: in terms of like the book, it was, you know, 967 00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:17,800 Speaker 1: it was kind of explained by that, you know, by 968 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:20,080 Speaker 1: the fact that she didn't have access to fund where 969 00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:22,919 Speaker 1: we don't get that context in the film. So Miss 970 00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:26,680 Speaker 1: Honey is just presented as like this paradigm of like goodness, 971 00:58:27,160 --> 00:58:30,200 Speaker 1: and it's like she's well educated, she comes from an 972 00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:35,000 Speaker 1: affluent background. You know, she's soft spoken, she's feminine, she's 973 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, and and and you know, this isn't not 974 00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,560 Speaker 1: not to dismiss that character, because I think Miss Honey, 975 00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:42,840 Speaker 1: as we talked about a little bit earlier, you know, 976 00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:46,440 Speaker 1: plays this really important role you know, in her liberation 977 00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:51,120 Speaker 1: is part of Matilda's story as well. Um, and also 978 00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:53,680 Speaker 1: the way that she relates her own experiences with trauma 979 00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,720 Speaker 1: and abuse to Matilda. I think it is very critical 980 00:58:56,760 --> 00:58:59,880 Speaker 1: to helping Matilda. But yeah, like we're sort of you 981 00:58:59,920 --> 00:59:03,200 Speaker 1: know that moment where um, she's sitting in the Warmon's 982 00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:06,000 Speaker 1: living room and she's giving them that that speech about education, 983 00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,800 Speaker 1: and they you know, like I think Zenia has like 984 00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,600 Speaker 1: curlers in and like Harry's like he's trying to redye 985 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:17,720 Speaker 1: his hair after it's been bleached and they're watching a 986 00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,760 Speaker 1: fight on t you know what. It was iconic, but 987 00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:25,760 Speaker 1: you know, like there's this very stark contrast. Again, she's 988 00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,640 Speaker 1: like a thing that's out of place right in the 989 00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:31,520 Speaker 1: Wormwood setting the same way that like, Matilda is out 990 00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:34,200 Speaker 1: of place in that setting, but it's I think that 991 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:38,720 Speaker 1: it's made less stark because of of who Misshoney is. Yeah, 992 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,760 Speaker 1: and there's a line of dialogue from Matilda's mom that 993 00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:48,080 Speaker 1: I feel like could effectively transition us into the conversation 994 00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:53,840 Speaker 1: about appearance and fatness and femininity and and that kind 995 00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,200 Speaker 1: of stuff, where her mom says, a girl does not 996 00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,880 Speaker 1: get anywhere by acting intelligent. You cho those books, she's 997 01:00:00,880 --> 01:00:05,080 Speaker 1: talking to, Miss Honey, You chose books. I chose looks. 998 01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:08,960 Speaker 1: So let's talk about the way people look and like. 999 01:00:09,080 --> 01:00:11,360 Speaker 1: And as Zennia is saying that though we're supposed to 1000 01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:14,440 Speaker 1: be laughing because we can see how Zenia looks, you know, 1001 01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:17,480 Speaker 1: and like. And there's a couple of moments like that 1002 01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,320 Speaker 1: in the film specifically about looks like. There's another line 1003 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:22,280 Speaker 1: trunch Bull says at one point, you know, like I 1004 01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,560 Speaker 1: can take a joke as well as the next fat 1005 01:00:24,600 --> 01:00:28,480 Speaker 1: person from where we're supposed to be, where we're we're 1006 01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:31,680 Speaker 1: supposed to be laughing at the character and not with 1007 01:00:31,720 --> 01:00:35,120 Speaker 1: them specifically, right, Yeah, I mean, Caitlin, you were alluding 1008 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,880 Speaker 1: to this a couple of minutes ago, but how or 1009 01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:43,120 Speaker 1: maybe maybe as you just how appearance is so emphasized 1010 01:00:43,120 --> 01:00:47,520 Speaker 1: in children's media because of the audience and how like 1011 01:00:47,600 --> 01:00:51,760 Speaker 1: it these very deliberate choices really make a big difference 1012 01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:56,400 Speaker 1: in just forming children's views of the world. And so 1013 01:00:56,480 --> 01:01:00,800 Speaker 1: you can see and really all of roll dolls work. 1014 01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:05,640 Speaker 1: And just an aside, their Roldal not just a deeply 1015 01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:10,920 Speaker 1: unpleasant person, but a deeply anti Semitic person, very pro vaccines, 1016 01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:15,560 Speaker 1: So I guess that's good, but certainly very like but 1017 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:20,920 Speaker 1: also like hugely misogynistic as well, like uh, incredibly racist. 1018 01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:24,200 Speaker 1: Like if we're going to dive into roldlf for for 1019 01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,560 Speaker 1: a moment, like, yeah, I think we should because it's like, 1020 01:01:26,600 --> 01:01:31,240 Speaker 1: I mean, his views are subtly accessible here, I think absolutely, 1021 01:01:31,320 --> 01:01:34,080 Speaker 1: and and like and I think that it's important context 1022 01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,960 Speaker 1: to like have this information in terms of even looking 1023 01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,680 Speaker 1: at like other of his works that have been adapted, 1024 01:01:41,600 --> 01:01:43,280 Speaker 1: you know, because he's looked at us being this really 1025 01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,800 Speaker 1: beloved children's author, you know, like he's on all these 1026 01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:51,000 Speaker 1: lists of like you know, most beloved UK children's authors 1027 01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:53,240 Speaker 1: of all time, you know, like most beloved this and 1028 01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:56,120 Speaker 1: that and the other thing. And yet yeah, he's a 1029 01:01:56,200 --> 01:02:00,880 Speaker 1: highly unpleasant person, incredibly anti semitic, incredibly misogynist. He also 1030 01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:05,840 Speaker 1: wrote pornographic books for adults, whoa I did not know this? Yeah, 1031 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:07,720 Speaker 1: did you even know? That's like I feel like I 1032 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:09,560 Speaker 1: remember I learned that when I was a teenager, and 1033 01:02:09,600 --> 01:02:14,040 Speaker 1: I was like wow, yeah, him and Shel Silverstein were 1034 01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,320 Speaker 1: like writing making mint, like writing like books for kids, 1035 01:02:17,320 --> 01:02:19,640 Speaker 1: and but also writing a lot of like pornographic books 1036 01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:23,160 Speaker 1: for atuts. Interesting. Yeah, and there's nothing with writing pornography, 1037 01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:26,400 Speaker 1: like right now, you know, like there's nothing writing wrong 1038 01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:30,080 Speaker 1: with writing erotica. It's a good way of expressing your 1039 01:02:30,080 --> 01:02:33,960 Speaker 1: creativity and horny nous. But um, I write it via 1040 01:02:34,000 --> 01:02:37,400 Speaker 1: text message to people all the time. You know what 1041 01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,640 Speaker 1: text messages are kind of like the new one pages 1042 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:46,200 Speaker 1: or like single sheets sexting what is a sext but 1043 01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:51,040 Speaker 1: a logline for a film it is, It's like an 1044 01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:58,360 Speaker 1: elevator pitch. It's like, hey, these out yeah, you know, 1045 01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:00,480 Speaker 1: and and and like you know, people used to write 1046 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:04,080 Speaker 1: love letters. Sex thing is just like today's love letter, 1047 01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,680 Speaker 1: you know. But like yeah, just just the fact that 1048 01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:13,919 Speaker 1: like even people who have read his like erotica are like, yeah, 1049 01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:17,240 Speaker 1: like it's this is very misogynistic. I mean, that's a 1050 01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:19,800 Speaker 1: good that's a good indicator because there's a lot of 1051 01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,000 Speaker 1: you know, and his I mean, his racism like is 1052 01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:27,840 Speaker 1: present in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory repeatedly, like the 1053 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:32,000 Speaker 1: characters of the Upa Lumpas are deeply rooted in his 1054 01:03:32,120 --> 01:03:35,720 Speaker 1: own racism. And there's I think that other examples in 1055 01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,840 Speaker 1: his work were it's so as we're talking about this, 1056 01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,640 Speaker 1: it reminds me of the conversation that was taking place 1057 01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:45,200 Speaker 1: around Dr seuss work last year as well, where it's 1058 01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:49,560 Speaker 1: like there are all of these men, like men who 1059 01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:53,360 Speaker 1: wrote children's books and are deeply influential and there and 1060 01:03:53,400 --> 01:03:56,920 Speaker 1: I mean and also not men, because we can bring J. K. 1061 01:03:57,080 --> 01:04:00,640 Speaker 1: Rowling into that conversation as well, where you know, on 1062 01:04:00,680 --> 01:04:05,520 Speaker 1: a closer look, not only where their politics got awful 1063 01:04:05,720 --> 01:04:11,160 Speaker 1: and their prejudices god awful, it is also present in 1064 01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:14,360 Speaker 1: their work in ways that it are like hard to 1065 01:04:14,480 --> 01:04:18,320 Speaker 1: kind of grapple with. Yeah, it doesn't seem like there's 1066 01:04:18,320 --> 01:04:21,480 Speaker 1: been quite as bit a conversation around role Dal. I 1067 01:04:21,520 --> 01:04:24,080 Speaker 1: don't know why that is. Yeah, maybe because he's dead, 1068 01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:27,120 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, and it's very interesting to 1069 01:04:27,120 --> 01:04:29,760 Speaker 1: look at because I think that like oftentimes, when you know, 1070 01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,280 Speaker 1: when we talked to about like yeah, like like rolled 1071 01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,800 Speaker 1: as a really excellent example, we haven't really he hasn't 1072 01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:37,920 Speaker 1: really had like his reckoning sort of, I guess in 1073 01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:40,520 Speaker 1: terms of like social media. But I think it's because 1074 01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:45,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people don't really know, I guess about 1075 01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:49,280 Speaker 1: his anti semitism and like misogyny and racism or like, 1076 01:04:50,000 --> 01:04:51,680 Speaker 1: you know, it always comes back to this thing, you 1077 01:04:51,680 --> 01:04:54,320 Speaker 1: know when I talk about this a lot, because oftentimes 1078 01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:57,640 Speaker 1: people will be like, as like an indigoud person, people 1079 01:04:57,680 --> 01:04:59,280 Speaker 1: will be like, oh, yeah, well it was okay that 1080 01:04:59,320 --> 01:05:03,040 Speaker 1: we like treated Indians like we did at such and 1081 01:05:03,080 --> 01:05:04,920 Speaker 1: such a time, because you know, that was just the culture. 1082 01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:09,960 Speaker 1: And unfortunately that's always patently wrong. You know, like when 1083 01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:14,040 Speaker 1: there is discrimination and prejudice and bigotry, you know that 1084 01:05:14,240 --> 01:05:17,320 Speaker 1: is happening at any point in time. It's not so 1085 01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:20,760 Speaker 1: much that that was the culture as the powers that 1086 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,479 Speaker 1: be within the culture, like us as individuals, were willing 1087 01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:25,960 Speaker 1: to permit it because it wasn't going to lose as 1088 01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:30,200 Speaker 1: social capital. You know, we knew, we knew when like 1089 01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:33,040 Speaker 1: Song of the South came out in the forties that 1090 01:05:33,080 --> 01:05:37,880 Speaker 1: it was incredibly racist film, you know, but we weren't 1091 01:05:38,440 --> 01:05:42,000 Speaker 1: we as in like white and white passing people weren't 1092 01:05:42,040 --> 01:05:45,560 Speaker 1: willing to get up in arms enough about it until 1093 01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:49,000 Speaker 1: it was like Disney plus, like it was like, oh, 1094 01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:50,400 Speaker 1: and you know, we're going to keep this one in 1095 01:05:50,480 --> 01:05:52,479 Speaker 1: the Disney vault. And then people were like, oh, yeah, 1096 01:05:52,600 --> 01:05:55,800 Speaker 1: that was a really racist filment. Was like, but we 1097 01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,680 Speaker 1: knew that at the time, you know, we we know, 1098 01:05:58,960 --> 01:06:00,560 Speaker 1: we know that kind of stuff at time, and we 1099 01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:02,880 Speaker 1: and we still sort of like let it go anyway, 1100 01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:05,439 Speaker 1: you know. And I think that we have to sort 1101 01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:07,720 Speaker 1: of understand it much more in a human level as 1102 01:06:07,720 --> 01:06:09,480 Speaker 1: opposed to sort of being like, oh, well that was 1103 01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,160 Speaker 1: just okay at the time. It's like, no, we made 1104 01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:14,440 Speaker 1: it okay, you know, and the same thing was rolled out. 1105 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,360 Speaker 1: I feel like there are people, you know, as much 1106 01:06:17,360 --> 01:06:20,320 Speaker 1: as like what he said. It's horrendous and I don't 1107 01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,200 Speaker 1: want to repeat something anti semitic marks that he made, 1108 01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,280 Speaker 1: you know, here, I think there were a lot of 1109 01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:28,320 Speaker 1: people who probably agreed with him, or at least like 1110 01:06:28,400 --> 01:06:33,800 Speaker 1: didn't disagree strongly, you know, or we're just complicit. I mean, yeah, 1111 01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:40,440 Speaker 1: intolerance has been tolerated for much of I mean, people 1112 01:06:40,640 --> 01:06:43,400 Speaker 1: called out D W. Griffith's Birth of a Nation in 1113 01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:47,520 Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen for being racist when it was coming out. Yeah, 1114 01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:49,920 Speaker 1: but like not enough people took him to task, and 1115 01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:53,880 Speaker 1: then he just kept making movies. And yeah, so I 1116 01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:56,400 Speaker 1: think that I mean, what what what you just said 1117 01:06:56,400 --> 01:07:00,440 Speaker 1: that's so beautifully of inherently tying it to social capital 1118 01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:05,120 Speaker 1: does seem to be the big thing where it's like, yeah, 1119 01:07:05,160 --> 01:07:08,680 Speaker 1: people are not like people didn't just wake up to 1120 01:07:08,720 --> 01:07:11,600 Speaker 1: the injustices of the world five or six years ago, 1121 01:07:11,640 --> 01:07:16,160 Speaker 1: which I feel like is sometimes how it's characterized. Obviously 1122 01:07:16,200 --> 01:07:19,240 Speaker 1: that's not true. But now, I mean, at least at 1123 01:07:19,240 --> 01:07:23,000 Speaker 1: present in some cases, still not all cases, there is 1124 01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:28,880 Speaker 1: a risk of losing social capital if you are intolerant publicly. Yeah. Yeah, 1125 01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:32,000 Speaker 1: so people who perhaps in another setting would have been 1126 01:07:32,040 --> 01:07:36,200 Speaker 1: apathetic or ambiguous, you know, do feel perhaps a little 1127 01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:43,080 Speaker 1: bit more pushed to at least not comment or or 1128 01:07:42,960 --> 01:07:44,360 Speaker 1: or or to do so like in a in a 1129 01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,760 Speaker 1: very like in a way that's not going to lose 1130 01:07:46,760 --> 01:07:49,360 Speaker 1: some social capital. And like I'm not trying to like 1131 01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:51,680 Speaker 1: point any fingers with that, Like I said, like, I 1132 01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:53,520 Speaker 1: think that it's important that we understand it on a 1133 01:07:53,600 --> 01:07:57,560 Speaker 1: human level and that also means like for ourselves. Um, 1134 01:07:57,560 --> 01:08:02,560 Speaker 1: you know, even though I grew up knowing that like 1135 01:08:02,640 --> 01:08:06,920 Speaker 1: my grandmother was Magma, I was also taught like some 1136 01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:10,000 Speaker 1: pretty horrendous shitty stuff about Native people through like the 1137 01:08:10,120 --> 01:08:15,160 Speaker 1: education system. And I definitely have like funked up in 1138 01:08:15,240 --> 01:08:18,960 Speaker 1: racist when racism like is applicable like to other groups 1139 01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,360 Speaker 1: and other situations that I am not like directly a 1140 01:08:21,400 --> 01:08:25,120 Speaker 1: part of, like, but like you take responsibility for that 1141 01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:26,800 Speaker 1: and then you try and do the best that you can. 1142 01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,160 Speaker 1: But this podcast is not about me. Let's get sticky. 1143 01:08:32,560 --> 01:08:37,160 Speaker 1: Let's get sticky. Let's get sticky. The last thing I 1144 01:08:37,160 --> 01:08:40,519 Speaker 1: wanted to say about Role Doll and then let's get 1145 01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,200 Speaker 1: the funk out of Rolled doll Land because it is 1146 01:08:43,240 --> 01:08:46,360 Speaker 1: so depressing. There the last thing, and I think this 1147 01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:52,440 Speaker 1: ties to social capital and capital capital is I didn't 1148 01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:56,680 Speaker 1: This news went right over my head. But in December 1149 01:08:56,720 --> 01:09:03,679 Speaker 1: of Roll Dolls Family only, slash Estate issued an apology 1150 01:09:03,720 --> 01:09:07,080 Speaker 1: for his anti Semitic comments. I think it's very interesting 1151 01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:10,879 Speaker 1: that they only chose to like thirty years after it happened. 1152 01:09:12,040 --> 01:09:15,320 Speaker 1: First of all, waited thirty years, which many I mean, 1153 01:09:15,360 --> 01:09:19,960 Speaker 1: it sounds like there were many Jewish groups that said, like, okay, cool, 1154 01:09:20,040 --> 01:09:24,679 Speaker 1: but why the thirty years And what I think that 1155 01:09:24,680 --> 01:09:26,960 Speaker 1: that is inherently tied to is the conversation that was 1156 01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:29,599 Speaker 1: taking a place around Dr Seuss around that same time. 1157 01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:32,920 Speaker 1: There is kind of I mean, and while I want 1158 01:09:33,040 --> 01:09:35,320 Speaker 1: to believe, and I have no reason to not believe 1159 01:09:35,400 --> 01:09:39,040 Speaker 1: that Roll Dolls descendants do not hold the anti Semitic 1160 01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,599 Speaker 1: feelings that their grandfather did, it doesn't feel it comes 1161 01:09:43,600 --> 01:09:46,839 Speaker 1: off as very disingenuous because it feels like damage control 1162 01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:51,479 Speaker 1: because the Roll Doll estate received reportedly potentially as much 1163 01:09:51,520 --> 01:09:56,760 Speaker 1: as one billion dollars from Netflix to license his catalog 1164 01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:00,360 Speaker 1: to adapt over the next you know, decade or or 1165 01:10:00,360 --> 01:10:04,840 Speaker 1: whatever it is. So it's you know, it's it's like, okay, 1166 01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:09,000 Speaker 1: that is Situations like that are so are so frustrating 1167 01:10:09,080 --> 01:10:14,240 Speaker 1: because of course, an acknowledgement of the inherent harm that 1168 01:10:14,360 --> 01:10:18,920 Speaker 1: those comments made towards the Jewish community like that absolutely 1169 01:10:19,000 --> 01:10:21,400 Speaker 1: is worth saying. But it doesn't feel like it's being 1170 01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:23,280 Speaker 1: done for the right reasons at all. It sounds like 1171 01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:26,240 Speaker 1: it's to preserve the Estates capital and I feel like 1172 01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:28,640 Speaker 1: we're seeing a lot of that right now, and I 1173 01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:34,680 Speaker 1: don't It's it's like I don't know what alternative to suggest, 1174 01:10:35,040 --> 01:10:38,240 Speaker 1: Like I'm not unhappy that the estate is acknowledging it, 1175 01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:41,240 Speaker 1: but it just doesn't. And also I was like, but 1176 01:10:41,320 --> 01:10:46,519 Speaker 1: what about the misogyny and the racism not that. No, no, 1177 01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:48,960 Speaker 1: we're not gonna we're not gonna talk about that, Jamie, 1178 01:10:49,479 --> 01:10:52,759 Speaker 1: like one issue at a time. Well, we'll circle back 1179 01:10:53,280 --> 01:10:55,519 Speaker 1: until we get threatened for something else. And no, and 1180 01:10:55,520 --> 01:10:57,400 Speaker 1: and and you're you're totally right, you know what, You're 1181 01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:01,120 Speaker 1: totally right. And it's sort of like, actually, like looking 1182 01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,479 Speaker 1: at what this film is about and about having a 1183 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,280 Speaker 1: sense of justice, and how about like standing up for 1184 01:11:06,320 --> 01:11:08,120 Speaker 1: what you believe in and sending up for people you 1185 01:11:08,160 --> 01:11:13,320 Speaker 1: care about on the one hand, and then on the 1186 01:11:13,320 --> 01:11:19,080 Speaker 1: other hand, being a total and absolute corporate chill like 1187 01:11:19,760 --> 01:11:22,840 Speaker 1: and I mean, you know, allegedly allegedly allegedly, I guess, 1188 01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:25,719 Speaker 1: like I don't have any kind of association with adult family. 1189 01:11:25,760 --> 01:11:29,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure they're all lovely, you know, we're not trying 1190 01:11:29,200 --> 01:11:33,800 Speaker 1: to tire them all with the same cancel of the dolls. No, no, 1191 01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,000 Speaker 1: but yeah, but it's it's I think that like I 1192 01:11:37,000 --> 01:11:40,480 Speaker 1: would encourage people to be very to be very skeptical 1193 01:11:41,160 --> 01:11:44,280 Speaker 1: when these kind of moves happen because of what's going 1194 01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,760 Speaker 1: on behind it, you know, and like they're getting reportedly 1195 01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:51,439 Speaker 1: a billion dollars from Netflix, but like Roldal also already 1196 01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:55,400 Speaker 1: came from a very affluent family. They have had this 1197 01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:59,200 Speaker 1: like very successful publishing arm you know, of his estate 1198 01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:01,960 Speaker 1: as well. It's also like a billion dollars going to 1199 01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:06,240 Speaker 1: people who are not or either you know, like like 1200 01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:09,040 Speaker 1: that's the thing too with like these these literary adaptations, 1201 01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,840 Speaker 1: like like something to keep in mind as well, is that, like, oh, yeah, 1202 01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:15,120 Speaker 1: I know, it's nice that like the books that we 1203 01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:17,200 Speaker 1: love as children are being adapted and things like that. 1204 01:12:17,280 --> 01:12:19,880 Speaker 1: But like if it's just like more money going into 1205 01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:22,280 Speaker 1: line the pockets of people who are already wealthy, why 1206 01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:25,200 Speaker 1: not go to an independent bookstore? Like why not take 1207 01:12:25,240 --> 01:12:27,760 Speaker 1: a chance on like a first time author, you know, 1208 01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:32,439 Speaker 1: of color? Why? Right? Why why invest so much money 1209 01:12:32,840 --> 01:12:38,960 Speaker 1: in adapting books by a misogynist, racist, anti semi and 1210 01:12:39,120 --> 01:12:42,719 Speaker 1: instead invest that like not and this isn't the point, 1211 01:12:42,760 --> 01:12:45,559 Speaker 1: but like that have also been at that have already 1212 01:12:45,560 --> 01:12:48,439 Speaker 1: been already been adapted to death. Are you, like, do 1213 01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:50,480 Speaker 1: you really think you're going to make a better Matilda 1214 01:12:50,520 --> 01:12:55,360 Speaker 1: than this? You probably not like that. So sorry, sorry 1215 01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:59,920 Speaker 1: to derail the conversation around um visual representations. I just 1216 01:13:00,040 --> 01:13:02,840 Speaker 1: think that, yeah, that Royal Doll's background is important to 1217 01:13:03,479 --> 01:13:08,960 Speaker 1: prejudices are important to understand and leading with that discussion, right, 1218 01:13:09,040 --> 01:13:13,040 Speaker 1: so let's talk about yeah, because his I mean, his misogyny. 1219 01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,760 Speaker 1: Although I mean, to be fair, I don't think I 1220 01:13:15,800 --> 01:13:18,560 Speaker 1: read this book. I read a few other Royal Dolls 1221 01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:21,120 Speaker 1: books as a kid, but I don't think I did 1222 01:13:21,120 --> 01:13:23,160 Speaker 1: read Matilda. So I'm not sure how much of this 1223 01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:27,040 Speaker 1: is cannon to the book and adapted from that, or 1224 01:13:27,080 --> 01:13:32,680 Speaker 1: if it's more cinematic like adaptation choices. But what we 1225 01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:37,800 Speaker 1: see here similar to the like higher education people equals good, 1226 01:13:38,280 --> 01:13:40,720 Speaker 1: people who have not gone to college equals bad. We 1227 01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:44,240 Speaker 1: have a and this is worth unpacking because I'm gonna 1228 01:13:44,320 --> 01:13:47,519 Speaker 1: kind of probably oversimplify this here just to start with, 1229 01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:51,920 Speaker 1: but there's this idea of like women and like female 1230 01:13:51,960 --> 01:13:57,040 Speaker 1: presenting characters with more feminine features slash like who more 1231 01:13:57,120 --> 01:14:01,400 Speaker 1: closely adhere to Western beauty standard thin women. I mean, 1232 01:14:01,600 --> 01:14:06,920 Speaker 1: then like thinness is virtue equals nice and good, which 1233 01:14:06,960 --> 01:14:11,800 Speaker 1: again is embodied in the Miss Honey character predominantly, and 1234 01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:17,040 Speaker 1: then women with more masculine features slash women who don't 1235 01:14:17,080 --> 01:14:23,360 Speaker 1: adhere to Western beauty standards equals mean evil, bad, embodied 1236 01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:27,120 Speaker 1: by principal trench Bowl. Um. I think there's also a 1237 01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:30,040 Speaker 1: conversation to be had about how that character is possibly 1238 01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:38,920 Speaker 1: another example of a queer coded villain. Yeah yeah, so yeah, yeah, 1239 01:14:40,360 --> 01:14:44,320 Speaker 1: I mean, I know, butches that in the right light, 1240 01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:47,800 Speaker 1: you're like full trunch bowl. I would even argue that 1241 01:14:47,880 --> 01:14:52,280 Speaker 1: the name trunch Bowl is like homophobic, like you know what, 1242 01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:58,160 Speaker 1: like come on, like, how are some slack god? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, no, 1243 01:14:58,200 --> 01:15:01,120 Speaker 1: so trunch trunch Bull is definitely a queer coded villain. 1244 01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:05,599 Speaker 1: I mean, whatever with Gator, But like honestly, you see 1245 01:15:05,640 --> 01:15:08,720 Speaker 1: the trench Ball and you're like, Okay, you know, I 1246 01:15:08,760 --> 01:15:11,439 Speaker 1: know what's going on. And what's so sad about that 1247 01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,080 Speaker 1: in so many ways is the fact that, like one, 1248 01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:18,559 Speaker 1: this idea of creating queer villains is not a new idea, 1249 01:15:18,800 --> 01:15:22,519 Speaker 1: you know, like this is like Disney playbook, you know, 1250 01:15:22,600 --> 01:15:25,080 Speaker 1: this is something that we've been doing in popular media 1251 01:15:25,120 --> 01:15:28,000 Speaker 1: for a really really long time. Um. And I think 1252 01:15:28,040 --> 01:15:30,599 Speaker 1: that like in the unfortunate case of Miss trench Ball, 1253 01:15:30,720 --> 01:15:32,639 Speaker 1: and again, like I feel like I'm in this episode 1254 01:15:32,640 --> 01:15:34,559 Speaker 1: I'm coming across like I sympathize with the villains a 1255 01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,000 Speaker 1: lot in this piece, and I really like, maybe that's 1256 01:15:38,000 --> 01:15:40,519 Speaker 1: like some of my own issues and empathy or whatever, 1257 01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:43,120 Speaker 1: but like, I really feel bad in some ways for 1258 01:15:43,200 --> 01:15:44,960 Speaker 1: the way that like miss trench Balls represented because I 1259 01:15:44,960 --> 01:15:48,080 Speaker 1: think that she's mothered not only in the masculinity of 1260 01:15:48,080 --> 01:15:52,120 Speaker 1: her body, so to say things like they intentionally darkened 1261 01:15:52,520 --> 01:15:56,080 Speaker 1: Pam Ferris is like mustache as an example, you know, 1262 01:15:56,080 --> 01:15:59,240 Speaker 1: when they put her in this very boxy outfit and 1263 01:15:59,520 --> 01:16:01,519 Speaker 1: they give her like a false end of her nose 1264 01:16:01,600 --> 01:16:05,080 Speaker 1: to make her nose more prominent, and they did all 1265 01:16:05,120 --> 01:16:08,040 Speaker 1: these things to make to make her appear more masculine 1266 01:16:08,080 --> 01:16:11,880 Speaker 1: on purpose, and like that, plus her size sort of 1267 01:16:11,920 --> 01:16:15,280 Speaker 1: like takes her out of this realm of femininity and 1268 01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,639 Speaker 1: like her in her kind of interest too, as far 1269 01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:20,840 Speaker 1: as like Olympic shot pudding and like right, which is 1270 01:16:20,840 --> 01:16:25,120 Speaker 1: like extremely fucking cool. Yeah yeah, And if you look 1271 01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:28,760 Speaker 1: at the athletes that perform in those those uh that 1272 01:16:28,840 --> 01:16:33,120 Speaker 1: perform that perform it's not a performance. If you look 1273 01:16:33,120 --> 01:16:36,599 Speaker 1: at the athletes that compete in those categories, they're built 1274 01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:38,800 Speaker 1: like a brickshit house because they have to be like 1275 01:16:39,200 --> 01:16:41,840 Speaker 1: if you're gonna like pick up a super heavy weight 1276 01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:44,000 Speaker 1: and like hurl it across, you're not going to be 1277 01:16:44,520 --> 01:16:46,479 Speaker 1: built like a gymnast is going to be, you know, 1278 01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:49,880 Speaker 1: very petite and like you don't have a ballet ballerina's body. 1279 01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:53,360 Speaker 1: But that's like inherent to the sport. It's like so 1280 01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:57,200 Speaker 1: exactly right, you know. And and you know, one thing 1281 01:16:57,200 --> 01:16:58,760 Speaker 1: that I don't I don't feel like we talked about 1282 01:16:58,880 --> 01:17:00,639 Speaker 1: enough in terms of like body pot sittivity and things 1283 01:17:00,680 --> 01:17:02,200 Speaker 1: like that is the fact that like different bodies are 1284 01:17:02,200 --> 01:17:05,320 Speaker 1: good at different things, you know. And and miss French 1285 01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:09,679 Speaker 1: Dooble is like a former athlete, Like it makes sense 1286 01:17:09,680 --> 01:17:11,519 Speaker 1: that she looks the way that she looks, and yet 1287 01:17:11,520 --> 01:17:15,200 Speaker 1: that's used to demonize her in such a poignant sort 1288 01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:18,559 Speaker 1: of way. And like part of that is the way 1289 01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:22,000 Speaker 1: that like fatness is represented in this film. And to 1290 01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:24,000 Speaker 1: talk a little bit about that as like, because I 1291 01:17:24,000 --> 01:17:28,040 Speaker 1: think Trenchable is like not only the like antithesis of 1292 01:17:28,280 --> 01:17:31,599 Speaker 1: Misshani in terms of like you know, good and evil, 1293 01:17:31,760 --> 01:17:34,839 Speaker 1: it's like even just like their characteristics, you know, principle 1294 01:17:34,960 --> 01:17:39,920 Speaker 1: is large and expansive and loud and mascula and all 1295 01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,160 Speaker 1: these sort of different things and she hates children, you know, 1296 01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:46,040 Speaker 1: but I think specifically because of her fatness, Like it's 1297 01:17:46,040 --> 01:17:50,240 Speaker 1: worth noting the way that in our culture fatness tends 1298 01:17:50,280 --> 01:17:53,479 Speaker 1: to be portrayed and also tends to like affect gender. 1299 01:17:54,479 --> 01:17:56,800 Speaker 1: So what I mean by that, And you know, looking 1300 01:17:56,840 --> 01:18:01,400 Speaker 1: specifically at this film, fatness tends to either for men, 1301 01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:04,320 Speaker 1: tends to feminize them. You know, we've seen that in 1302 01:18:04,439 --> 01:18:07,719 Speaker 1: like expressions like oh you've gotten man boobs or whatever, 1303 01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,800 Speaker 1: So a fat man is looked at as being more vulnerable, 1304 01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,320 Speaker 1: more feminine, we will, you know, and we see that 1305 01:18:14,360 --> 01:18:17,240 Speaker 1: a little bit in the way that like it's not 1306 01:18:17,720 --> 01:18:20,080 Speaker 1: I think a coincidence that the kid that trench Bill 1307 01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:23,000 Speaker 1: picks on is a fat kid. You know. That's like 1308 01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:27,080 Speaker 1: a whole other conversation, you know. Whereas like I think 1309 01:18:27,120 --> 01:18:31,320 Speaker 1: for women, and like, even though I am non binary, 1310 01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,599 Speaker 1: I was raised or I was like assigned female at birth, 1311 01:18:35,600 --> 01:18:39,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of ways in which like being fat 1312 01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:43,680 Speaker 1: and being assigned female at birth or presumed female um 1313 01:18:43,800 --> 01:18:48,880 Speaker 1: or being female um ends up removing you a little 1314 01:18:48,880 --> 01:18:52,280 Speaker 1: bit from femininity, or at least it used to. Like 1315 01:18:52,880 --> 01:18:56,240 Speaker 1: to give an example, there was this ad campaign that 1316 01:18:56,320 --> 01:18:59,120 Speaker 1: was really very controversial, A couple of years ago in 1317 01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:01,479 Speaker 1: the States and encamp and that was supposed to be 1318 01:19:01,560 --> 01:19:04,080 Speaker 1: targeting like childhood obesity, and it was like, it's really 1319 01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:05,640 Speaker 1: hard to be a little girl when you aren't And 1320 01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:08,800 Speaker 1: it was a picture of a of a girl who 1321 01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:12,800 Speaker 1: was fat, and like that was like the line that 1322 01:19:12,920 --> 01:19:14,920 Speaker 1: was like over her fat body was like, it's hard 1323 01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,599 Speaker 1: to be a little girl when you're not and when 1324 01:19:17,640 --> 01:19:21,439 Speaker 1: you're not little, when you're not little, that was the 1325 01:19:21,439 --> 01:19:25,200 Speaker 1: the implication, and for a long time that was true. Like, 1326 01:19:25,240 --> 01:19:28,599 Speaker 1: for example, when I was growing up, like we didn't 1327 01:19:28,600 --> 01:19:31,120 Speaker 1: shop at the mall or anything like we you know, 1328 01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:33,880 Speaker 1: we relied on like thrift stores and and like hand 1329 01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:36,000 Speaker 1: me dns and stuff because we were like lower middle class. 1330 01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:40,439 Speaker 1: And I used to like wear my dad's like some 1331 01:19:40,479 --> 01:19:43,559 Speaker 1: of my dad's old clothes and stuff to school because 1332 01:19:43,760 --> 01:19:46,040 Speaker 1: anything that was like handed down that was sort of 1333 01:19:46,080 --> 01:19:48,360 Speaker 1: girly or anything that we like my mom got that 1334 01:19:48,479 --> 01:19:51,200 Speaker 1: was like sort of like what we're girly like styles 1335 01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:55,320 Speaker 1: and sighs, like her sighs so small for somebody that 1336 01:19:55,400 --> 01:19:58,480 Speaker 1: was like it would have never fit my body. So automatically, 1337 01:19:59,800 --> 01:20:02,160 Speaker 1: you know, you're getting made fun of at school because 1338 01:20:02,200 --> 01:20:04,519 Speaker 1: like one you're fat, but also like you're wearing your 1339 01:20:04,600 --> 01:20:07,360 Speaker 1: dad's clothes to school because like literally there weren't clothes 1340 01:20:07,439 --> 01:20:10,080 Speaker 1: to fit you. And I think that like there are 1341 01:20:11,560 --> 01:20:13,720 Speaker 1: some more like size inclusive brands and things like that. 1342 01:20:13,760 --> 01:20:16,919 Speaker 1: And that's why, like when we're talking about fat liberation, 1343 01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,439 Speaker 1: like clothing does play a part in that, because you 1344 01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:24,680 Speaker 1: have to wear clothes in society. Um, Unfortunately, we live 1345 01:20:24,720 --> 01:20:26,960 Speaker 1: in a society, yeah exactly, and people are going to 1346 01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:31,599 Speaker 1: judge a twelve year old wearing like their middle aged dads, 1347 01:20:31,640 --> 01:20:35,760 Speaker 1: like business casual clothes a lot harsher, you know than 1348 01:20:35,800 --> 01:20:38,040 Speaker 1: they are like another twelve year old that's like fitting 1349 01:20:38,040 --> 01:20:42,040 Speaker 1: in with like what people are wearing. So uh, you know, 1350 01:20:42,080 --> 01:20:44,600 Speaker 1: and it used to be the same, I mean, and 1351 01:20:44,640 --> 01:20:46,920 Speaker 1: I still think it is largely the same. Unfortunately for 1352 01:20:46,960 --> 01:20:50,240 Speaker 1: folks you know, who are my size and larger. You know, 1353 01:20:50,320 --> 01:20:52,720 Speaker 1: there's still is very few choices that we have when 1354 01:20:52,720 --> 01:20:56,400 Speaker 1: it comes to clothing and and things like that. Um, 1355 01:20:56,439 --> 01:21:01,160 Speaker 1: and so there is this like if you can't find 1356 01:21:01,240 --> 01:21:06,360 Speaker 1: gender affirming clothing, then like already your gender identity and 1357 01:21:06,400 --> 01:21:10,080 Speaker 1: how you affirm that is like sort of skewed, you know, 1358 01:21:10,160 --> 01:21:12,760 Speaker 1: in a way. And I think with trunch ball as well, 1359 01:21:12,800 --> 01:21:16,240 Speaker 1: Like she's not dainty, she's not like she doesn't have 1360 01:21:16,320 --> 01:21:20,080 Speaker 1: these traditionally feminine qualities, a lot of which are related 1361 01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:23,400 Speaker 1: to size. You know, when we talk about fat phobia, 1362 01:21:23,439 --> 01:21:26,080 Speaker 1: you know, it's important to recognize like the gendered elements 1363 01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:27,960 Speaker 1: of that and as well as like the racial elements 1364 01:21:28,000 --> 01:21:31,640 Speaker 1: of that. A lot of fat phobia is anchored in racism. 1365 01:21:31,680 --> 01:21:34,920 Speaker 1: You know, it's anchored in this idea that like white 1366 01:21:35,479 --> 01:21:38,960 Speaker 1: virginal like you know, what is it, like Anglo Saxon 1367 01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:42,639 Speaker 1: Protestant like bodies were supposed to look a certain way, 1368 01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:47,120 Speaker 1: and that became the ideal that people in society, women 1369 01:21:47,280 --> 01:21:51,200 Speaker 1: specifically were expected to adhere to. Jamie. You Um. A 1370 01:21:51,240 --> 01:21:56,280 Speaker 1: recent episode of ac cast dove into that as far 1371 01:21:56,320 --> 01:22:00,600 Speaker 1: as like diet culture and beauty standards and body size standards. 1372 01:22:01,040 --> 01:22:03,479 Speaker 1: Really well, so if anyone hasn't listened to that already, 1373 01:22:03,920 --> 01:22:07,120 Speaker 1: check that out. But um, yeah, it's grounded in a 1374 01:22:07,360 --> 01:22:12,799 Speaker 1: very colonialist Western I mean, we talked about the Western 1375 01:22:12,800 --> 01:22:15,160 Speaker 1: beauty standard all the time, and and it's it's very 1376 01:22:15,240 --> 01:22:18,640 Speaker 1: much rooted in colonialism and racism, and and it's a 1377 01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:21,559 Speaker 1: it's a zero sum game for everybody because it's rooted, 1378 01:22:21,640 --> 01:22:27,800 Speaker 1: and like everyone's bodies are being controlled. And so it's 1379 01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:31,400 Speaker 1: like even if you're you know, if you do look 1380 01:22:31,479 --> 01:22:34,799 Speaker 1: like miss honey, let's say that is still the result 1381 01:22:34,960 --> 01:22:38,000 Speaker 1: of the demands and pressures of the society that you're 1382 01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:41,519 Speaker 1: living in. So it's yeah. The the book that I 1383 01:22:41,560 --> 01:22:45,759 Speaker 1: would recommend to everybody listening is Fearing the Black Body 1384 01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:49,320 Speaker 1: by Sabrina Strings, which is just such an incredible comprehensive 1385 01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:55,559 Speaker 1: look at how fat people are othered and also how specifically, uh, 1386 01:22:55,640 --> 01:22:59,800 Speaker 1: non white fat people are extremely mothered um and have 1387 01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:02,679 Speaker 1: then yeah, and and how it's just it's yet another 1388 01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:09,000 Speaker 1: systemic issue that can be traced right back to colonialism absolutely, 1389 01:23:09,040 --> 01:23:12,160 Speaker 1: and and like and I second Jamie's recommendation on the 1390 01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:16,240 Speaker 1: books such a fantastic book and and like I feel 1391 01:23:16,240 --> 01:23:18,280 Speaker 1: like it's a book that I will continue to go 1392 01:23:18,320 --> 01:23:22,120 Speaker 1: back to and like reference, uh, because yeah, you know, 1393 01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:23,920 Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of stuff that we can all learn. 1394 01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:26,599 Speaker 1: What I was going to say in addition to that, too, 1395 01:23:26,720 --> 01:23:28,720 Speaker 1: is is, like you said, it's a zero sum game, 1396 01:23:28,760 --> 01:23:33,920 Speaker 1: everybody loses. And fatness and like queerness, the way that 1397 01:23:33,960 --> 01:23:37,719 Speaker 1: those two things interact as well in terms of villainy, 1398 01:23:37,840 --> 01:23:39,640 Speaker 1: like I said, is to just sort of render this 1399 01:23:39,680 --> 01:23:43,640 Speaker 1: body monstrous. You know, Like there are distinct moments in 1400 01:23:43,640 --> 01:23:46,599 Speaker 1: the film where trench Bull is like portrayed as being 1401 01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:49,960 Speaker 1: almost like animalistic. Like I think about like when she's 1402 01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:53,640 Speaker 1: like sniffing like the ribbon that she finds um you know, 1403 01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:57,400 Speaker 1: it's like yeah, or when she's like chasing Matilda and 1404 01:23:57,479 --> 01:24:00,120 Speaker 1: Massani through the house, which is still such like even now, 1405 01:24:00,160 --> 01:24:03,439 Speaker 1: it's still like such a terrifying scene to me. She's 1406 01:24:03,479 --> 01:24:07,799 Speaker 1: like sniffing the end, she's like she's like breathing heavily 1407 01:24:08,120 --> 01:24:11,840 Speaker 1: and like visibly perspiring, you know, And it's like this 1408 01:24:12,000 --> 01:24:14,120 Speaker 1: very animal sort of thing. And the way that her 1409 01:24:14,240 --> 01:24:17,400 Speaker 1: the camera treats her body at many points, and I 1410 01:24:17,439 --> 01:24:22,040 Speaker 1: feel like we're we're constantly seeing her from like up angles. 1411 01:24:22,160 --> 01:24:27,639 Speaker 1: We're seeing like her fishy lenses, like like unflattering lenses. 1412 01:24:27,960 --> 01:24:31,760 Speaker 1: She's shot very very differently than anyone else in the movie, 1413 01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,000 Speaker 1: even the other villains, because it's like you don't really 1414 01:24:34,040 --> 01:24:37,840 Speaker 1: see those applied to to Matilda's parents, even though I 1415 01:24:37,880 --> 01:24:41,599 Speaker 1: think that they are also not through fatness, but they're 1416 01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:46,480 Speaker 1: they're also physically mothered. Yeah, especially I think like especially 1417 01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:48,800 Speaker 1: I think Harry, I think it's sort of like the 1418 01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:52,519 Speaker 1: taller woman shorter man sort of thing that's like that's 1419 01:24:52,520 --> 01:24:55,800 Speaker 1: that played with like and like sort of stereotypes around 1420 01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:58,160 Speaker 1: like masculinity. I think also come into play a lot 1421 01:24:58,200 --> 01:25:00,880 Speaker 1: with Harry, And I think that that's maybe y mental 1422 01:25:01,000 --> 01:25:02,639 Speaker 1: to plays the pranks that she does on her dad 1423 01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:06,520 Speaker 1: is because he is so invested in this like masculine 1424 01:25:07,120 --> 01:25:09,240 Speaker 1: idea of his appearance. You know, he says to his 1425 01:25:09,280 --> 01:25:11,880 Speaker 1: son at one point, like, you know, I'm not selling 1426 01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:15,000 Speaker 1: a car, I'm selling me, you know, like, and so 1427 01:25:15,080 --> 01:25:16,960 Speaker 1: I think that, like that's another sort of line in 1428 01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:18,479 Speaker 1: the film where I feel like we're supposed to be 1429 01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:21,240 Speaker 1: laughing at the character because he's like, you know, he's 1430 01:25:21,280 --> 01:25:23,519 Speaker 1: like the short little guy who's like, you know, we 1431 01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:25,880 Speaker 1: have this idea in our minds that like short men 1432 01:25:25,880 --> 01:25:30,360 Speaker 1: are like somehow more vengeful then just like regular sized men, 1433 01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:35,519 Speaker 1: which is wrong. I mean, it's incorrect, but like I 1434 01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:37,840 Speaker 1: think that it's definitely like something that exists culturally. So 1435 01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:41,760 Speaker 1: I think that there's like a lot of different like 1436 01:25:41,800 --> 01:25:43,840 Speaker 1: ways that people's bodies are used in this film. And 1437 01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:47,040 Speaker 1: I also think, like I think about like the fat 1438 01:25:47,120 --> 01:25:49,040 Speaker 1: characters that I had growing up as a kid. It 1439 01:25:49,120 --> 01:25:52,320 Speaker 1: was like Miss trench Bull, uh that one Chicken from 1440 01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:56,439 Speaker 1: that uh like from Chicken Run. Oh no, not even 1441 01:25:56,439 --> 01:26:01,080 Speaker 1: from Chicken Run from from the like Disney Robin Hood 1442 01:26:01,080 --> 01:26:04,920 Speaker 1: where they're like foxes, I know exactly who you're doing. 1443 01:26:05,880 --> 01:26:08,559 Speaker 1: And she's like made Marian's and she's Scottish and she's 1444 01:26:08,640 --> 01:26:14,040 Speaker 1: like I think she's called Mrs Cluck, Madam Cluck, Lady Cluck. 1445 01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:17,080 Speaker 1: I don't know, Mrs Chicken. I don't know. Anyway, she 1446 01:26:17,200 --> 01:26:22,479 Speaker 1: was fat. Also, there is ursula. You know, we're not 1447 01:26:22,479 --> 01:26:24,680 Speaker 1: getting like there's not like you know, it's not like 1448 01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:29,680 Speaker 1: we get like a broad great spectrum, you know. Um 1449 01:26:29,720 --> 01:26:31,479 Speaker 1: so yeah, so when you do see like this like 1450 01:26:31,560 --> 01:26:35,800 Speaker 1: particularly unflattering portrayal of like a fat character, you know, 1451 01:26:35,880 --> 01:26:37,759 Speaker 1: like that's what I mean. Like I think my empathy 1452 01:26:37,800 --> 01:26:40,880 Speaker 1: really like kicks in and it's like, poor miss trench Bull, 1453 01:26:41,479 --> 01:26:47,040 Speaker 1: you're so awful. Also, I don't know, like one thing. 1454 01:26:47,120 --> 01:26:49,479 Speaker 1: This is sort of a side sort of note, but 1455 01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:51,519 Speaker 1: like trunch Bull says at one point that like she's 1456 01:26:51,560 --> 01:26:54,240 Speaker 1: like she hates children, and she's like I'm glad I 1457 01:26:54,240 --> 01:26:56,040 Speaker 1: would never was one. And that just makes me think 1458 01:26:56,080 --> 01:26:58,360 Speaker 1: that like maybe trunch Bill had like a really traumatic 1459 01:26:58,400 --> 01:27:00,760 Speaker 1: upbringing and she didn't go to therapy, and like that's 1460 01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:03,640 Speaker 1: why she behaves the way that she does, you know, 1461 01:27:03,760 --> 01:27:06,960 Speaker 1: and we don't get any insight into how That's something 1462 01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:08,680 Speaker 1: I didn't even that didn't even click for me, is 1463 01:27:08,720 --> 01:27:12,280 Speaker 1: like we get an extreme insight into how Matilda and 1464 01:27:12,479 --> 01:27:15,360 Speaker 1: Miss Honey were raised, but we get no insight into 1465 01:27:15,600 --> 01:27:17,800 Speaker 1: the people were being told are the villains. We have 1466 01:27:17,840 --> 01:27:21,200 Speaker 1: no insight into why they behaved the way they behave 1467 01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:24,920 Speaker 1: with the parents or with Miss trunch Ball. No, and 1468 01:27:24,920 --> 01:27:27,920 Speaker 1: and and like not to excuse like villainous behavior, not 1469 01:27:27,960 --> 01:27:31,400 Speaker 1: to excuse like people who are abusive, absolutely not, and 1470 01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:34,719 Speaker 1: not to make excuses for them. But I would argue 1471 01:27:35,120 --> 01:27:38,439 Speaker 1: that you know, here in we're pretty well aware of 1472 01:27:38,439 --> 01:27:43,280 Speaker 1: the fact that like, sometimes people who are abusive are violent. 1473 01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:47,360 Speaker 1: You know, sometimes people who are not great parents are 1474 01:27:47,720 --> 01:27:50,559 Speaker 1: the way that they are because of the fact that 1475 01:27:51,120 --> 01:27:55,200 Speaker 1: you know, they didn't have great role models and experienced 1476 01:27:55,200 --> 01:27:59,080 Speaker 1: abuse or experienced trauma themselves. Like hurt people. Hurt people 1477 01:27:59,439 --> 01:28:02,800 Speaker 1: because thing happens in a vacuum. And it would have 1478 01:28:02,840 --> 01:28:08,439 Speaker 1: been interesting to explore, yeah, why these villainous characters are 1479 01:28:08,920 --> 01:28:11,160 Speaker 1: the way they are, but the movie doesn't have any 1480 01:28:11,439 --> 01:28:15,599 Speaker 1: interest in exploring that, and especially when it queer codes them, 1481 01:28:15,680 --> 01:28:17,840 Speaker 1: like that's why. That's what it really bothers me. Is 1482 01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:20,320 Speaker 1: sort of like the fact that like, you know, here 1483 01:28:20,360 --> 01:28:24,920 Speaker 1: we have a queer coded villain who's like violent and 1484 01:28:25,400 --> 01:28:29,639 Speaker 1: abusive and we have no context for why. So then 1485 01:28:29,640 --> 01:28:33,960 Speaker 1: it's just like, oh, queer women specifically are just violent 1486 01:28:34,000 --> 01:28:37,200 Speaker 1: and abusive, and that end the story, which is like 1487 01:28:37,320 --> 01:28:41,519 Speaker 1: not not nothing, you know, like it's it's not a 1488 01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:46,639 Speaker 1: helpful narrative to perpetuate. It did make me laugh when 1489 01:28:46,960 --> 01:28:49,559 Speaker 1: Miss trunch Bull comes into the class, I think the 1490 01:28:49,640 --> 01:28:54,400 Speaker 1: second time she like oversees Miss Honny's class and the 1491 01:28:54,520 --> 01:28:57,439 Speaker 1: little girl who she had formerly thrown around by her 1492 01:28:57,479 --> 01:29:01,880 Speaker 1: pigtails was like, yeah, we learned how to bell difficulty 1493 01:29:02,080 --> 01:29:04,800 Speaker 1: via a song that Miss Honey taught us Mrs D, 1494 01:29:05,080 --> 01:29:08,200 Speaker 1: Mrs I, Mrs f f I, Mrs C, Mrs you, 1495 01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:10,800 Speaker 1: Mrs L t Y. And then trench Bull is like, 1496 01:29:11,080 --> 01:29:13,760 Speaker 1: why are all these women married? There? I think that, 1497 01:29:13,920 --> 01:29:18,679 Speaker 1: but but like why are why are all these women married? Question? 1498 01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:21,920 Speaker 1: And that's like another reason so here, okay, just as 1499 01:29:21,920 --> 01:29:23,840 Speaker 1: like a quick summary, I keep referring to trensh Bull 1500 01:29:23,840 --> 01:29:26,120 Speaker 1: as a queer coded character. Here are the reasons. That 1501 01:29:26,280 --> 01:29:28,800 Speaker 1: is one of the reasons in the book, although I 1502 01:29:28,840 --> 01:29:31,120 Speaker 1: don't think it's made as explicit in the movie. She 1503 01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:33,840 Speaker 1: hates long hair. That's why she throws the girl around 1504 01:29:33,880 --> 01:29:37,559 Speaker 1: by her pink tails, is because she hates long hair. Um. 1505 01:29:37,640 --> 01:29:41,719 Speaker 1: Like I said, they darkened Pam Ferris's mustache specifically for 1506 01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:44,400 Speaker 1: like the trench Bull, and of course we associate facial 1507 01:29:44,439 --> 01:29:49,160 Speaker 1: hair with like certain types of gender expression. You know. 1508 01:29:49,439 --> 01:29:52,760 Speaker 1: It's the fact that there are no love interests in 1509 01:29:52,800 --> 01:29:54,960 Speaker 1: this movie, and we didn't bring that up in terms 1510 01:29:55,000 --> 01:29:57,240 Speaker 1: of like something that's kind of crazy about kids films, 1511 01:29:57,280 --> 01:29:59,720 Speaker 1: but there's always love interest in kids films, but this 1512 01:29:59,760 --> 01:30:02,439 Speaker 1: film has no love interests. Yeah, so I think I 1513 01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:06,479 Speaker 1: love it, right, It's so good. I'm so happy that 1514 01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:10,439 Speaker 1: Matilda didn't get like a boy that she was sweet on. 1515 01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:13,000 Speaker 1: That made me so happy or that Honestly, I thought 1516 01:30:13,040 --> 01:30:17,040 Speaker 1: that Miss Honey, that was the most remarkable avoidance of 1517 01:30:17,080 --> 01:30:20,559 Speaker 1: that trope, because I the second I saw Miss Honey, 1518 01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:22,280 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god, they're going to marry 1519 01:30:22,280 --> 01:30:27,479 Speaker 1: her off to some weirdo, like to Paul Rubens. Or something. 1520 01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:31,720 Speaker 1: She's gonna marry a cop Lana del Ray style. This 1521 01:30:31,760 --> 01:30:34,800 Speaker 1: is a nightmare. But Miss Honey, I thought it was 1522 01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:38,559 Speaker 1: like because I feel like and I'm trying to think 1523 01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:40,800 Speaker 1: of who I'm thinking of here, but because I feel 1524 01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:44,080 Speaker 1: like we've seen so many Miss Honey characters in children's 1525 01:30:44,160 --> 01:30:48,960 Speaker 1: media who always are like that. That is how the 1526 01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:55,439 Speaker 1: traditionally Western beauty standards feminine woman. That's how her story ends. 1527 01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:57,920 Speaker 1: It's like but where it's like, there's so much of 1528 01:30:58,120 --> 01:31:00,599 Speaker 1: Miss Honey's story as its present it in the movie 1529 01:31:00,760 --> 01:31:04,840 Speaker 1: is almost like a Cinderella e story, except that it 1530 01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:11,120 Speaker 1: ends with her asserting herself, confronting her past, and adopting 1531 01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:13,800 Speaker 1: a child to raise as a single parent, which is like, 1532 01:31:14,160 --> 01:31:17,599 Speaker 1: that is awesome. That like I was blown away by 1533 01:31:17,640 --> 01:31:21,519 Speaker 1: that creative choice and like, you know, and and that 1534 01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:24,360 Speaker 1: idea of sort of like even after like even in 1535 01:31:24,400 --> 01:31:27,679 Speaker 1: the like after the you know, when we're getting into 1536 01:31:27,720 --> 01:31:30,720 Speaker 1: like you know, after Trunch believes, you know, and Miss 1537 01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:32,640 Speaker 1: Honey's living her life and until it's coming to his 1538 01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:35,160 Speaker 1: like there's no man at that point, even that's brought 1539 01:31:35,200 --> 01:31:37,799 Speaker 1: into the picture, it's like no, no, no, she decided 1540 01:31:37,840 --> 01:31:39,920 Speaker 1: to be a single parent. She was like, no, I 1541 01:31:39,960 --> 01:31:43,920 Speaker 1: got daddy bucks. I'm good, Like, don't even worry about 1542 01:31:43,960 --> 01:31:52,760 Speaker 1: like ushbucks. Yeah, yeah, because her dad's And I think 1543 01:31:52,760 --> 01:31:54,400 Speaker 1: if they had married her off, we wouldn't have had 1544 01:31:54,400 --> 01:31:56,479 Speaker 1: those moments, Jamie. I really think that there would have 1545 01:31:56,520 --> 01:31:59,600 Speaker 1: been like, instead of her standing up for herself in 1546 01:31:59,640 --> 01:32:01,519 Speaker 1: a certain herself, I really think it would have been 1547 01:32:01,680 --> 01:32:05,320 Speaker 1: the man being like, well, gosh, darn it, you can't 1548 01:32:05,400 --> 01:32:08,280 Speaker 1: let your aunt treat you like that, you know, Jennifer, 1549 01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:11,200 Speaker 1: how could you let yourself be treated this way for 1550 01:32:11,240 --> 01:32:14,559 Speaker 1: so long? And you're like, get out of here there. Yeah. 1551 01:32:14,920 --> 01:32:17,679 Speaker 1: But then but then it's it's it's such a double 1552 01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:21,600 Speaker 1: edged thing because as it feels so pointed when that 1553 01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:24,599 Speaker 1: same choice is applied to miss trunch Bull, because it's 1554 01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:27,479 Speaker 1: done so without context and we don't have any context 1555 01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:32,160 Speaker 1: about who she is exactly right, And because she's also 1556 01:32:32,200 --> 01:32:34,599 Speaker 1: like the older spinster and I had to use that word, 1557 01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:38,719 Speaker 1: but like she's like the older unmarried woman. I feel 1558 01:32:38,720 --> 01:32:42,080 Speaker 1: like there's also always a connotation like that, like and 1559 01:32:42,080 --> 01:32:45,760 Speaker 1: and again, I hope this is changing, but I feel 1560 01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:47,320 Speaker 1: like for a really long time, it's like, oh, the 1561 01:32:47,400 --> 01:32:50,240 Speaker 1: older unmarried woman. You know, it's like, well, you know, 1562 01:32:51,240 --> 01:32:52,760 Speaker 1: you guys might not be able to see, but I'm 1563 01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,519 Speaker 1: raising people on the podcast can't see at all, but 1564 01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:58,000 Speaker 1: I'm like doing like the vaguely eyebrows sort of thing. 1565 01:32:58,040 --> 01:33:03,720 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, there would have definitely been like a 1566 01:33:04,040 --> 01:33:06,080 Speaker 1: folksy old saying that we had for that on the 1567 01:33:06,080 --> 01:33:09,160 Speaker 1: East Coast, like, oh, you know, she's a little lightner 1568 01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:15,640 Speaker 1: Loofer's meaningful glance like, yeah, I heard she's more of 1569 01:33:15,680 --> 01:33:22,479 Speaker 1: a cat person, if you know what I mean, except 1570 01:33:22,520 --> 01:33:26,720 Speaker 1: that we do see trunch Bull kick a cat across 1571 01:33:26,720 --> 01:33:29,240 Speaker 1: the yard. Yeah, she's actually not much of a cat. 1572 01:33:29,680 --> 01:33:32,559 Speaker 1: She's not much of a cat person. That that scene 1573 01:33:32,840 --> 01:33:35,040 Speaker 1: is still swept saying to me that in the new scene, 1574 01:33:35,040 --> 01:33:39,320 Speaker 1: the cruelty to animals, yeah, really bad. I want to 1575 01:33:39,320 --> 01:33:42,720 Speaker 1: go back to the way fatness is treated in the 1576 01:33:42,760 --> 01:33:47,519 Speaker 1: movie as it relates to Bruce bog Trotter, she played 1577 01:33:47,560 --> 01:33:51,559 Speaker 1: by Jimmy carrs who's a doctor now, who's a doctor? Now? 1578 01:33:51,560 --> 01:33:54,759 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I have some quotes to share. Okay. 1579 01:33:54,800 --> 01:33:59,439 Speaker 1: I found this oral history that is specific to the 1580 01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:02,320 Speaker 1: cake eating scene in the movie. There's like a long 1581 01:34:02,479 --> 01:34:05,679 Speaker 1: oral history from Newsweek. No kidding, I didn't know that 1582 01:34:06,040 --> 01:34:10,160 Speaker 1: yes by Zach Schonfeld. Will link it in the description, 1583 01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:13,000 Speaker 1: but it's a long oral history about one scene in 1584 01:34:13,040 --> 01:34:16,519 Speaker 1: the movie. Anyway, So a bunch of people are interviewed. 1585 01:34:16,920 --> 01:34:21,519 Speaker 1: I have a couple disturbing quotes from Danny DeVito, who's, uh, 1586 01:34:22,160 --> 01:34:25,720 Speaker 1: maybe this makes him perhaps not the Wilke came we 1587 01:34:25,800 --> 01:34:31,080 Speaker 1: thought he was well because he says, um, in an 1588 01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:36,559 Speaker 1: earlier quote, he's just talking about the child actor Jimmy saying, um, oh, 1589 01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:39,240 Speaker 1: you know, he was so cool. He's an orthopedic doctor. 1590 01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:42,240 Speaker 1: Now I don't know exactly if he's a surgeon or 1591 01:34:42,400 --> 01:34:47,240 Speaker 1: just a bone guy. So there's that one. The second 1592 01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:51,160 Speaker 1: quote is him saying, it's really funny because like Danny DeVito, 1593 01:34:51,240 --> 01:34:53,439 Speaker 1: because like the reason I knew that kid is now 1594 01:34:53,920 --> 01:34:56,559 Speaker 1: a doctor was because there's another quote another thing that 1595 01:34:56,600 --> 01:35:00,519 Speaker 1: I read that Danny DeVito was like, yeah, kid, he's 1596 01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:03,480 Speaker 1: some kind of some kind of doctor. Now, maybe an osteopath. 1597 01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:06,559 Speaker 1: I don't know. I thought you could, yeah, you could 1598 01:35:06,720 --> 01:35:08,920 Speaker 1: hear him saying that in his voice, like I don't know, 1599 01:35:08,920 --> 01:35:13,280 Speaker 1: it's some kind of bone guy. I don't know, but 1600 01:35:13,400 --> 01:35:16,599 Speaker 1: I love that Danny DeVito like those he's some kind 1601 01:35:16,640 --> 01:35:18,960 Speaker 1: of bone guy. He's like an uncle who's trying to 1602 01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:22,280 Speaker 1: remember some kind of like cousin's boyfriend's roommate or something, 1603 01:35:22,320 --> 01:35:24,479 Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, I don't need to know. I don't. 1604 01:35:24,520 --> 01:35:26,960 Speaker 1: I don't need Danny DeVito to know more about medicine 1605 01:35:27,000 --> 01:35:30,719 Speaker 1: than that that's wine. That's good. Well, listen to this 1606 01:35:31,000 --> 01:35:35,200 Speaker 1: second quote. There's a lot to unpack here. So Danny 1607 01:35:35,240 --> 01:35:39,559 Speaker 1: DeVito says about the actor who eats the cake in 1608 01:35:39,600 --> 01:35:43,519 Speaker 1: the movie quote, Jimmy is looking amazing. He's grown into 1609 01:35:43,520 --> 01:35:46,759 Speaker 1: a fine young man. He was a little chubb chub 1610 01:35:46,880 --> 01:35:50,439 Speaker 1: when I knew him. Now he's a strapping young gentleman 1611 01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:56,719 Speaker 1: and a doctor not doctor doctor is how it's quoted. 1612 01:35:56,800 --> 01:36:01,519 Speaker 1: Danny DeVito can't not talk like a Newsies character. She's 1613 01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:04,240 Speaker 1: a doctor. And then the final part of this is 1614 01:36:04,800 --> 01:36:08,200 Speaker 1: of his quote is oh I need bone doctors. Man, 1615 01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:16,360 Speaker 1: I'm the original guy in need of bone doctors unquote. Okay, 1616 01:36:16,360 --> 01:36:18,800 Speaker 1: and I'm back and I'm back. That second quote was 1617 01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:24,479 Speaker 1: not great, but the third one I'm back. So how 1618 01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:28,919 Speaker 1: is Danny de Vito a native auntie like that happened? 1619 01:36:30,560 --> 01:36:35,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. God, that's I bring up this quote 1620 01:36:35,120 --> 01:36:39,200 Speaker 1: because of the way he's talking about Jimmy carrs he 1621 01:36:39,320 --> 01:36:42,639 Speaker 1: was a kid. Yes, So what happens in the movie 1622 01:36:42,880 --> 01:36:48,400 Speaker 1: is Principal trunch Bowl calls an assembly so that the 1623 01:36:48,479 --> 01:36:53,960 Speaker 1: whole school can watch her fat shame a child because 1624 01:36:53,960 --> 01:36:58,720 Speaker 1: she suspects him of eating a piece of her chocolate cake. Um, 1625 01:36:58,800 --> 01:37:01,519 Speaker 1: which is it's never terribly clear if he did or 1626 01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:04,080 Speaker 1: if he didn't. He says like it's better than my mom's. 1627 01:37:04,120 --> 01:37:06,479 Speaker 1: But he's also but like, I don't know if that's 1628 01:37:06,520 --> 01:37:10,479 Speaker 1: just like something a kid would say, right right, So 1629 01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:13,240 Speaker 1: we're not even sure if he is like guilty of 1630 01:37:13,280 --> 01:37:18,080 Speaker 1: this non crime, but for this nom nom crime whoa 1631 01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:28,320 Speaker 1: sticky sticky alert. So she calls him on stage and 1632 01:37:28,720 --> 01:37:31,559 Speaker 1: it's like, here, eat this piece of cake, and then 1633 01:37:31,560 --> 01:37:36,160 Speaker 1: he does kind of reluctantly, and then she like summons 1634 01:37:36,400 --> 01:37:39,800 Speaker 1: the cook of the school, who brings out the rest 1635 01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:44,120 Speaker 1: of this enormous cake, and then trunch both forces Bruce 1636 01:37:44,280 --> 01:37:46,960 Speaker 1: bog Trotter to eat the whole thing in front of 1637 01:37:46,960 --> 01:37:51,200 Speaker 1: the school. So the fact that it's like a fat 1638 01:37:51,280 --> 01:37:55,120 Speaker 1: kid who stole the cake to begin with, who is 1639 01:37:55,479 --> 01:37:59,760 Speaker 1: made a spectacle of basically who is publicly shamed for 1640 01:38:00,000 --> 01:38:03,439 Speaker 1: are perpet humiliated. Yeah, and eating thing, and the whole 1641 01:38:03,479 --> 01:38:08,160 Speaker 1: thing being framed as being disgusting. Like I have to 1642 01:38:08,240 --> 01:38:12,160 Speaker 1: skip over this scene because it is the way in which, 1643 01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:15,759 Speaker 1: like the costuming they put like all this like smeared 1644 01:38:15,840 --> 01:38:20,000 Speaker 1: chocolate all over him in his face, and the angles 1645 01:38:20,040 --> 01:38:23,639 Speaker 1: that they're shooting this kid with, and just the kind 1646 01:38:23,640 --> 01:38:28,599 Speaker 1: of grotesqueness of it all is basically using cinematic language 1647 01:38:28,640 --> 01:38:33,040 Speaker 1: communicating to the audience saying basically like when fat people eat, 1648 01:38:33,360 --> 01:38:36,360 Speaker 1: it's gross and it's shameful, and this is how you 1649 01:38:36,360 --> 01:38:40,840 Speaker 1: should feel when you watch that, and it's just so 1650 01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:44,519 Speaker 1: horrendously fatphobic and toxic. And and they do the same 1651 01:38:44,520 --> 01:38:46,360 Speaker 1: thing with trench Bill. There's a there's a point when 1652 01:38:46,600 --> 01:38:48,880 Speaker 1: trench Bills eating a piece of chocolate cake at her house. 1653 01:38:48,920 --> 01:38:51,080 Speaker 1: I think, when yeah, tell, then there are there where 1654 01:38:51,080 --> 01:38:53,040 Speaker 1: they do like a sort of similar sort of call back. 1655 01:38:53,080 --> 01:38:55,280 Speaker 1: And it's a lot of mouth sounds for no reason 1656 01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:57,880 Speaker 1: and a very tight angle for no reason. You know. 1657 01:38:58,880 --> 01:39:03,400 Speaker 1: But this scene is like this scene in particular has 1658 01:39:03,439 --> 01:39:08,440 Speaker 1: been written about by a lot of like fat academics 1659 01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:11,920 Speaker 1: and artists, like because this is our trauma, this is 1660 01:39:11,920 --> 01:39:15,080 Speaker 1: our collective trauma um for folks who can't see me 1661 01:39:15,080 --> 01:39:17,519 Speaker 1: on the podcast. I am a fat person. I'm very 1662 01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:20,720 Speaker 1: happy calling myself that. That is like being called a 1663 01:39:20,720 --> 01:39:23,880 Speaker 1: little chub. Chub by Danny DeVito is now my dream, 1664 01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:28,200 Speaker 1: um and putting it on my back list. But like 1665 01:39:28,400 --> 01:39:30,640 Speaker 1: you know, uh, this is like this is part of 1666 01:39:30,680 --> 01:39:35,240 Speaker 1: our collective trauma because like, UM, we have this association first, 1667 01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:38,160 Speaker 1: first and foremost, you know, we have this idea within 1668 01:39:38,200 --> 01:39:42,480 Speaker 1: our culture that you are ultimately the person who determines 1669 01:39:43,240 --> 01:39:46,760 Speaker 1: what your body looks like, which is not true. UM. 1670 01:39:46,880 --> 01:39:54,519 Speaker 1: Our bodies are they estimate probably you know, the way 1671 01:39:54,520 --> 01:39:56,760 Speaker 1: that we look is determined by our genetics. So what 1672 01:39:56,800 --> 01:40:00,799 Speaker 1: does your family look like? What did your ancestors look like? UM? 1673 01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:06,080 Speaker 1: Is like variable sort of like health outcomes, but a 1674 01:40:06,120 --> 01:40:09,439 Speaker 1: lot of that is also like tied to class, tied 1675 01:40:09,560 --> 01:40:14,160 Speaker 1: to ability, you know, like do you have chronic illness? 1676 01:40:14,240 --> 01:40:17,720 Speaker 1: Do you suffer from like depression? Things like that? Can 1677 01:40:17,760 --> 01:40:20,920 Speaker 1: you afford? What was that article about that woman who 1678 01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:23,600 Speaker 1: spends like so many thousands of dollars every month on 1679 01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:29,600 Speaker 1: like smoothie like health food smoothies and like that. Oh absolutely, 1680 01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:32,200 Speaker 1: you know, and like for indigenous people as well, like 1681 01:40:32,920 --> 01:40:34,400 Speaker 1: you know, when if you want to talk about like 1682 01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:37,200 Speaker 1: spending thousands of dollars at the grocery store, like there 1683 01:40:37,320 --> 01:40:40,640 Speaker 1: is an overwhelming occupation. Um. And you'll see this a 1684 01:40:40,680 --> 01:40:44,000 Speaker 1: lot on reserves here at least in Canada, Like, um, 1685 01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:48,200 Speaker 1: there's a lot of government messaging about how indigenous folks like, oh, 1686 01:40:48,360 --> 01:40:50,320 Speaker 1: you need to make healthier eating choices and you need 1687 01:40:50,360 --> 01:40:53,519 Speaker 1: to do this, and you do that. But um, like 1688 01:40:53,560 --> 01:40:56,160 Speaker 1: I've been in flying communities in northern Quebec. Here we're 1689 01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:59,679 Speaker 1: buying like it's to buy like like a two liter 1690 01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:04,800 Speaker 1: of mal it's like fifteen bucks, you know, to buy 1691 01:41:04,880 --> 01:41:10,559 Speaker 1: like a thing of like asparagus, it's like twelve bucks. 1692 01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:15,280 Speaker 1: You know, if you're trying to feed your family, you know, 1693 01:41:15,560 --> 01:41:19,040 Speaker 1: you have to make certain choices about like the food 1694 01:41:19,040 --> 01:41:21,639 Speaker 1: that you can even have access to, like fresh produce, 1695 01:41:21,680 --> 01:41:24,280 Speaker 1: like getting fresh produced up north can be challenging at times, 1696 01:41:24,320 --> 01:41:26,120 Speaker 1: you know. And it's not even just up north, Like 1697 01:41:26,160 --> 01:41:29,280 Speaker 1: I'm from Eastern Canada. The last time I lived in 1698 01:41:29,280 --> 01:41:32,519 Speaker 1: Eastern Canada, I lived in our a city, you know, 1699 01:41:33,280 --> 01:41:37,519 Speaker 1: like a city with public transport and universities and like 1700 01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:40,120 Speaker 1: like guess like a real city, like a real you know, 1701 01:41:41,280 --> 01:41:43,680 Speaker 1: and like there was still like the winter before I 1702 01:41:43,720 --> 01:41:47,360 Speaker 1: moved to Montreal, caulie flower to get ahead of cauliflower. 1703 01:41:48,000 --> 01:41:51,280 Speaker 1: It was like eight bucks, you know, like and that's 1704 01:41:51,280 --> 01:41:53,840 Speaker 1: like in that's you know, that isn't in a remote area. 1705 01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:56,200 Speaker 1: That's just like being on the East Coast, the price 1706 01:41:56,240 --> 01:42:00,080 Speaker 1: of living is very, very expensive, and so like I 1707 01:42:00,120 --> 01:42:03,760 Speaker 1: hate the term food desert because again, like all of 1708 01:42:03,800 --> 01:42:07,080 Speaker 1: this is very intentional. You know, people can grow cauliflower 1709 01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:10,360 Speaker 1: in a lot of places, like there could be you know, 1710 01:42:10,479 --> 01:42:13,360 Speaker 1: different projects and things like that, but especially like a 1711 01:42:13,439 --> 01:42:16,639 Speaker 1: lot of indigenous people you know, would love to connect 1712 01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:21,360 Speaker 1: with like getting traditional food, um, but a lot of 1713 01:42:21,360 --> 01:42:25,240 Speaker 1: that is made so difficult and so expensive that you know, 1714 01:42:25,360 --> 01:42:26,559 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, it's sort of like 1715 01:42:26,600 --> 01:42:29,240 Speaker 1: will make healthier choices, It's like, well I can't afford to. 1716 01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:31,880 Speaker 1: I am making the best choices that I can afford 1717 01:42:31,880 --> 01:42:35,040 Speaker 1: to to feed my family, you know, and factory farming 1718 01:42:36,080 --> 01:42:40,080 Speaker 1: is awful. And there's a lot of arguments around like 1719 01:42:40,120 --> 01:42:43,040 Speaker 1: you know, eating specific diets and different you know, to 1720 01:42:43,080 --> 01:42:46,760 Speaker 1: do different things, you know, lower cholesterol or less meat 1721 01:42:46,760 --> 01:42:50,080 Speaker 1: intake because of the effect on they plan it. But 1722 01:42:50,160 --> 01:42:52,639 Speaker 1: for so many, so many people, that decision is like 1723 01:42:53,520 --> 01:42:58,240 Speaker 1: again like having enough food right right and having access 1724 01:42:58,760 --> 01:43:01,559 Speaker 1: big time, and that is like one of the many 1725 01:43:01,680 --> 01:43:05,160 Speaker 1: things that this movie does that feels it almost feels 1726 01:43:05,439 --> 01:43:08,040 Speaker 1: like it's interacting with the point we were talking about 1727 01:43:08,040 --> 01:43:11,400 Speaker 1: earlier where it was like the kind of you see 1728 01:43:11,400 --> 01:43:15,040 Speaker 1: where they're going with it, but it's inherently like misrepresenting 1729 01:43:15,600 --> 01:43:20,160 Speaker 1: issues around education and oversimplifying it of And I feel 1730 01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:23,120 Speaker 1: like the way that this movie treats food, like you 1731 01:43:23,120 --> 01:43:27,800 Speaker 1: were describing just as like this is an individual decision 1732 01:43:28,040 --> 01:43:31,559 Speaker 1: as opposed to all of these factors. And then on 1733 01:43:31,640 --> 01:43:36,759 Speaker 1: top of that, who gives a ship? It's none of business, yeah, 1734 01:43:36,880 --> 01:43:39,439 Speaker 1: you know, and like and even just like the portraying 1735 01:43:39,479 --> 01:43:41,519 Speaker 1: it as like, oh, you know, he can eat all 1736 01:43:41,560 --> 01:43:43,479 Speaker 1: of this cake because he's a fat kid. Like that 1737 01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:45,360 Speaker 1: was like always like the jump that I sort of 1738 01:43:46,200 --> 01:43:49,160 Speaker 1: we're making my brain of like and it's like, no, 1739 01:43:49,439 --> 01:43:53,400 Speaker 1: like the human stomach, no matter what size your body is, 1740 01:43:54,120 --> 01:43:56,519 Speaker 1: is about the same, Like it's about you know, it's 1741 01:43:56,840 --> 01:43:59,519 Speaker 1: gonna be your little like your little poach. You know, 1742 01:43:59,600 --> 01:44:02,479 Speaker 1: it's not it's not that big cannot fit an entire 1743 01:44:03,000 --> 01:44:06,839 Speaker 1: chocolate cake. That's like I don't know, twenty inches in diameter. 1744 01:44:07,000 --> 01:44:14,280 Speaker 1: That thing was enormous, like tall like and very sticky. Um. 1745 01:44:14,320 --> 01:44:16,920 Speaker 1: I would also like again sort of with like trunch Bowl, 1746 01:44:17,240 --> 01:44:20,400 Speaker 1: you know, and broadcasting things via people's names, Miss Fanny 1747 01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:24,160 Speaker 1: broadcasting things via people's names, Wormwood, which is a poison 1748 01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:27,479 Speaker 1: broadcasting things via people's names. I feel like bog Trotter 1749 01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:32,120 Speaker 1: is also like a fat name, like a lack of 1750 01:44:32,160 --> 01:44:34,800 Speaker 1: like a better term for it, like and and it's 1751 01:44:34,840 --> 01:44:36,720 Speaker 1: it's it's sort of this like it's it's because of 1752 01:44:36,840 --> 01:44:39,320 Speaker 1: sort of like the like oh sounds that you end 1753 01:44:39,400 --> 01:44:41,640 Speaker 1: up getting. I don't know, it's like the roundness of 1754 01:44:41,680 --> 01:44:43,640 Speaker 1: an oh. I don't know, bog Trotter. You wouldn't call 1755 01:44:43,640 --> 01:44:46,759 Speaker 1: a thin character bob Trotter. Yeah, I see what you're saying. 1756 01:44:46,880 --> 01:44:49,439 Speaker 1: It almost sounds like because I wish I had written 1757 01:44:49,479 --> 01:44:53,559 Speaker 1: them down, because trench Bowl comes up with several just 1758 01:44:53,880 --> 01:44:58,120 Speaker 1: iconic insults that she calls the children. The one I remember, 1759 01:44:58,240 --> 01:45:04,080 Speaker 1: she calls them something something piss worms something, it's like um, 1760 01:45:04,120 --> 01:45:07,800 Speaker 1: but bog Trotter almost sounds like one of the insults 1761 01:45:07,840 --> 01:45:11,800 Speaker 1: that she would hurl at a child and then like right, 1762 01:45:11,880 --> 01:45:15,800 Speaker 1: But contrast, Miss Honey is called miss Honey because she's 1763 01:45:15,800 --> 01:45:19,360 Speaker 1: sweet and pleasant, it's like Swan being your last name 1764 01:45:19,360 --> 01:45:25,360 Speaker 1: and you being like beautiful. Right, It's like it's like that, yeah, 1765 01:45:25,400 --> 01:45:31,719 Speaker 1: that extreme, Like I understand why Roldal makes those choices 1766 01:45:31,760 --> 01:45:35,960 Speaker 1: because of whatever. He's telegraphing things in simple terms, because 1767 01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:39,200 Speaker 1: he's a children's author, but he's telegraphing things that are 1768 01:45:39,479 --> 01:45:45,160 Speaker 1: broad stereotypes, so he's using his tools for evil. I 1769 01:45:45,200 --> 01:45:47,760 Speaker 1: don't like it. And then when we talk about how 1770 01:45:47,800 --> 01:45:53,120 Speaker 1: Bruce's story plays out, because that scene takes place, and 1771 01:45:53,160 --> 01:46:01,800 Speaker 1: then it kind of ends as this like Spartacuss style ending, Um, 1772 01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:05,080 Speaker 1: let's let's unpack that. I'm curious of what you both 1773 01:46:05,120 --> 01:46:08,599 Speaker 1: thought of how that seems kind of results, right, because 1774 01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:11,559 Speaker 1: instead of any and again, this is a room full 1775 01:46:11,600 --> 01:46:14,320 Speaker 1: of children who you know are perhaps not the most 1776 01:46:14,400 --> 01:46:20,160 Speaker 1: equipped to advocate further peers against a tyrannical principle. But 1777 01:46:20,840 --> 01:46:23,559 Speaker 1: it's also a movie, and like whatever, you can suspend 1778 01:46:23,600 --> 01:46:28,880 Speaker 1: your disbelief for things. But rather than anyone being like, no, Bruce, stop, 1779 01:46:29,000 --> 01:46:31,800 Speaker 1: you don't have to do this thing that's clearly like 1780 01:46:31,880 --> 01:46:35,200 Speaker 1: making you ill and causing you pain and is humiliating 1781 01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:39,439 Speaker 1: you and all this stuff, Matilda's like you can do it. 1782 01:46:39,680 --> 01:46:44,799 Speaker 1: Keep eating which you're like, oh, she's trying. She's trying, 1783 01:46:45,280 --> 01:46:49,840 Speaker 1: but like, yeah, like she's egging him on in support 1784 01:46:50,000 --> 01:46:52,920 Speaker 1: and almost like encouraging him to finish the cake. Might 1785 01:46:53,040 --> 01:46:54,880 Speaker 1: read on it as she's encouraging him to finish the 1786 01:46:54,880 --> 01:46:57,840 Speaker 1: cake out of spite for Miss trunch Ball, right, So 1787 01:46:57,880 --> 01:47:01,639 Speaker 1: it's like there's no like malice in her intent, but 1788 01:47:02,600 --> 01:47:07,280 Speaker 1: as far as like the implications of what she's cheering 1789 01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:12,920 Speaker 1: him on for is not very productive, we'll say no. 1790 01:47:13,560 --> 01:47:16,040 Speaker 1: And it's it's I mean, I'm sure we've all eaten 1791 01:47:16,120 --> 01:47:21,240 Speaker 1: things out of spite for somebody, you know, at least 1792 01:47:21,240 --> 01:47:25,320 Speaker 1: once a day, you know, like, yeah, it is really weird. 1793 01:47:25,360 --> 01:47:27,599 Speaker 1: And I never, like as a fat kid and as 1794 01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:31,519 Speaker 1: a fat adult, I never look at that scene and 1795 01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:35,920 Speaker 1: at the end like feel like whoa, you know, yeah 1796 01:47:37,479 --> 01:47:43,639 Speaker 1: we won, right right, it was like everyone loses. Yeah. 1797 01:47:43,680 --> 01:47:45,640 Speaker 1: So it's it's like really, it's really really tricky and 1798 01:47:45,680 --> 01:47:49,840 Speaker 1: it's nice. I'm so on the one hand, I am 1799 01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:54,760 Speaker 1: so happy for Matilda that she stands up and like 1800 01:47:54,840 --> 01:47:58,479 Speaker 1: supports one of her peers and like and some of 1801 01:47:58,520 --> 01:48:00,720 Speaker 1: the scenes I love most of the movie is like um, 1802 01:48:00,760 --> 01:48:02,680 Speaker 1: the scenes between like the friends when you start to 1803 01:48:02,680 --> 01:48:06,519 Speaker 1: realize that like her in her Tensia and Lavender and 1804 01:48:06,600 --> 01:48:09,960 Speaker 1: Bruce like hang out, you know, And I love that, 1805 01:48:10,160 --> 01:48:12,519 Speaker 1: and I love that Matilda would feel like she's standing 1806 01:48:12,520 --> 01:48:16,840 Speaker 1: out for for somebody. But yeah, it's I do want 1807 01:48:16,880 --> 01:48:21,840 Speaker 1: to touch on Lavender really quick because she is one 1808 01:48:21,880 --> 01:48:26,679 Speaker 1: of the few non white characters in the entire movie, 1809 01:48:27,400 --> 01:48:33,200 Speaker 1: played by Kiami Duval. She is I think the only 1810 01:48:34,040 --> 01:48:39,040 Speaker 1: bipop character who has any lines of dialogue. There are 1811 01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:42,960 Speaker 1: others in background shots who were like kids, who were 1812 01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:45,439 Speaker 1: like extras in the classroom, but she's I think the 1813 01:48:45,479 --> 01:48:49,720 Speaker 1: only one who has lines of dialogue. Um. Even so, 1814 01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:53,240 Speaker 1: though she has very little narrative significance, to the point 1815 01:48:53,280 --> 01:48:56,679 Speaker 1: where if you noticed, she's barely mentioned in the recap 1816 01:48:56,800 --> 01:48:59,960 Speaker 1: because you could essentially write her out of the movie 1817 01:49:00,200 --> 01:49:04,840 Speaker 1: and the story would not really change at all. True, 1818 01:49:05,160 --> 01:49:08,479 Speaker 1: I love that she's there. She's the cutest child I've 1819 01:49:08,520 --> 01:49:14,120 Speaker 1: ever seen, and I just wanted more for her because 1820 01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:19,599 Speaker 1: she is present but not in a meaningful way, and 1821 01:49:19,680 --> 01:49:23,559 Speaker 1: that's extremely noticeable in a movie that is predominantly white, 1822 01:49:23,960 --> 01:49:26,880 Speaker 1: which is as we talked about at Like at the 1823 01:49:26,920 --> 01:49:32,160 Speaker 1: beginning of the show, mainstream children's movies in like American cinema, 1824 01:49:32,280 --> 01:49:34,040 Speaker 1: especially the ones that have like stood the test of 1825 01:49:34,120 --> 01:49:36,760 Speaker 1: time and that we like still watch and remember and 1826 01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:42,519 Speaker 1: like talk about, are so so so white. It's just 1827 01:49:42,680 --> 01:49:47,640 Speaker 1: another unfortunate example of there being very few people of 1828 01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:51,000 Speaker 1: color in the movie, and the one that has a 1829 01:49:51,160 --> 01:49:55,720 Speaker 1: name and any lines of dialogue still doesn't contribute to 1830 01:49:55,760 --> 01:49:57,840 Speaker 1: this story, isn't allowed to contribute to the story in 1831 01:49:57,840 --> 01:50:01,880 Speaker 1: any meaningful way. Absolutely it us feel like symbolic diversity 1832 01:50:02,000 --> 01:50:06,920 Speaker 1: over anything, you know, like which feels very of its time. 1833 01:50:06,960 --> 01:50:09,080 Speaker 1: But also you know, how how much of that has 1834 01:50:09,080 --> 01:50:13,360 Speaker 1: actually been resolved in modern media? Exactly No, And it's 1835 01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:15,160 Speaker 1: it's so unfortunate because, like I said, you know, some 1836 01:50:15,240 --> 01:50:19,040 Speaker 1: of my favorite moments in the film are moments between 1837 01:50:19,120 --> 01:50:23,679 Speaker 1: Lavender and Matilda, Like I really love for example, when 1838 01:50:24,160 --> 01:50:27,240 Speaker 1: um that last sort of rampage that trench wile goes 1839 01:50:27,280 --> 01:50:30,400 Speaker 1: on and she, like Matilda then like saves Lavender by 1840 01:50:30,439 --> 01:50:32,720 Speaker 1: like lifting her up and putting around the pipe and 1841 01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:36,000 Speaker 1: then bringing her down safely, you know. And there's another 1842 01:50:36,040 --> 01:50:40,200 Speaker 1: moment to where like when the newt and she knows 1843 01:50:40,240 --> 01:50:43,320 Speaker 1: that Lavender put the new in the water, and Lavender 1844 01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:45,160 Speaker 1: is like, well, thank you for not telling him Matilda's 1845 01:50:45,200 --> 01:50:47,800 Speaker 1: like best friends don't tell you know, those moments are 1846 01:50:47,840 --> 01:50:50,679 Speaker 1: really really nice, And I always been watching this film, 1847 01:50:50,760 --> 01:50:52,519 Speaker 1: as much as I enjoy it, always wish that there 1848 01:50:52,520 --> 01:50:56,160 Speaker 1: were more of those kind of moments, because, like, I 1849 01:50:56,160 --> 01:50:59,559 Speaker 1: think it's also just like nice, nice friendships, you know, 1850 01:51:00,280 --> 01:51:02,760 Speaker 1: just and there's room for it in the movie, it 1851 01:51:02,800 --> 01:51:05,559 Speaker 1: feels like it's and I feel like it's almost like 1852 01:51:05,680 --> 01:51:10,360 Speaker 1: Lavender's character is put aside in favor of focusing on 1853 01:51:10,479 --> 01:51:13,639 Speaker 1: their relationship between Matilda and Miss Honey. But I feel 1854 01:51:13,680 --> 01:51:16,240 Speaker 1: like it would have been a powerful choice to have 1855 01:51:16,400 --> 01:51:19,800 Speaker 1: Matilda like strongly connect and learn about her connection with 1856 01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:22,960 Speaker 1: a with a kid her own age, too, especially because 1857 01:51:23,000 --> 01:51:25,679 Speaker 1: it's set up in the movie that like, she doesn't 1858 01:51:25,840 --> 01:51:30,400 Speaker 1: have friends like people her age that she talks to 1859 01:51:30,560 --> 01:51:34,880 Speaker 1: because like again, her really awful parents are depriving her 1860 01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:38,760 Speaker 1: of opportunities to connect with children her own age. So yeah, 1861 01:51:38,800 --> 01:51:42,080 Speaker 1: I almost would have rather this story unfold in such 1862 01:51:42,120 --> 01:51:44,759 Speaker 1: a way that sure, Miss Honey can be a character, 1863 01:51:44,880 --> 01:51:47,760 Speaker 1: she can be a positive influence in Matilda's life, but 1864 01:51:47,920 --> 01:51:51,280 Speaker 1: I kind of rather see a story about Matilda meeting 1865 01:51:51,960 --> 01:51:55,040 Speaker 1: like a best friend and developing that friendship and the 1866 01:51:55,080 --> 01:51:58,439 Speaker 1: hi jinks that they get into together or even just 1867 01:51:58,479 --> 01:52:02,240 Speaker 1: like including Lavender in the Miss Honey story, like where 1868 01:52:02,280 --> 01:52:05,400 Speaker 1: it seems like she is also has you know, she's 1869 01:52:05,479 --> 01:52:08,880 Speaker 1: also being abused at this school by Miss trench Bull. 1870 01:52:09,280 --> 01:52:11,479 Speaker 1: We have to assume there's a larger context for that. 1871 01:52:11,560 --> 01:52:13,479 Speaker 1: How did she end up at this school? What? Like 1872 01:52:13,560 --> 01:52:16,040 Speaker 1: what is her what is her family? Like like it 1873 01:52:16,439 --> 01:52:21,280 Speaker 1: there's it? Would it would help the story? No, absolutely, 1874 01:52:21,360 --> 01:52:23,240 Speaker 1: and sort of like yeah, like with her home life, 1875 01:52:23,280 --> 01:52:25,120 Speaker 1: like like that's always the big question I have is 1876 01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:28,960 Speaker 1: like part of trench Bulls like over the top punishments, 1877 01:52:29,040 --> 01:52:32,439 Speaker 1: is like the idea that like parents would never believe children, 1878 01:52:33,560 --> 01:52:36,439 Speaker 1: you know, so then it's like, oh, okay, well then 1879 01:52:36,520 --> 01:52:39,920 Speaker 1: like what's is Lavender also in a situation where like 1880 01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:43,920 Speaker 1: she needs to be rescued like you know, and and 1881 01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:45,600 Speaker 1: you know, you start to sort of wonder about this 1882 01:52:45,720 --> 01:52:47,479 Speaker 1: kind of things. I think it could also be interesting 1883 01:52:47,520 --> 01:52:51,200 Speaker 1: for Matilda to like meet a family that's like functional 1884 01:52:51,560 --> 01:52:55,120 Speaker 1: and like healthy like healthy relationship dynamics and sort of 1885 01:52:55,160 --> 01:52:59,600 Speaker 1: like be able to sort of realize like which I 1886 01:52:59,640 --> 01:53:01,599 Speaker 1: think she does. Like I think she's very well aware 1887 01:53:01,600 --> 01:53:03,799 Speaker 1: of the fact that, like her home life is not ideal, 1888 01:53:03,880 --> 01:53:07,160 Speaker 1: but like it might sort of like take that contrast 1889 01:53:07,200 --> 01:53:09,479 Speaker 1: of like being like, oh, you know, like I could 1890 01:53:09,560 --> 01:53:14,240 Speaker 1: maybe ask for something better for myself, Jamie, I know 1891 01:53:14,320 --> 01:53:16,760 Speaker 1: that you have a heart out soon. The last thing 1892 01:53:16,760 --> 01:53:19,559 Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up very quickly is just shout 1893 01:53:19,600 --> 01:53:23,280 Speaker 1: out to this movie for not being copaganda, because the 1894 01:53:23,360 --> 01:53:27,439 Speaker 1: FBI agents in this movie are like treated as kind 1895 01:53:27,439 --> 01:53:31,840 Speaker 1: of being, you know, bumbling fools. And the funniest part 1896 01:53:31,840 --> 01:53:34,800 Speaker 1: of the movie to me is when so like these 1897 01:53:34,960 --> 01:53:38,360 Speaker 1: FBI agents are tailing Mr Wormwood because he is like 1898 01:53:38,560 --> 01:53:42,000 Speaker 1: buying and selling stolen car parts and stuff. Why the 1899 01:53:42,080 --> 01:53:48,599 Speaker 1: FBI is involved not sure, but the unclear. Matilda keeps 1900 01:53:48,600 --> 01:53:51,080 Speaker 1: telling her parents like, oh, these guys that are outside 1901 01:53:51,280 --> 01:53:54,599 Speaker 1: watching you all the time are obviously cops, and her 1902 01:53:54,680 --> 01:53:58,000 Speaker 1: mom's like, no, their speedboat salesman. Um. And then at 1903 01:53:58,040 --> 01:54:00,559 Speaker 1: one point Matilda comes home and the two agents, one 1904 01:54:00,640 --> 01:54:04,200 Speaker 1: of which is Paul Rubens, are in the house and 1905 01:54:04,240 --> 01:54:06,640 Speaker 1: like her mom is kind of flirting with them, and 1906 01:54:06,680 --> 01:54:08,960 Speaker 1: then Matilda takes one look at them and just like 1907 01:54:09,040 --> 01:54:12,439 Speaker 1: dead pan is like they're cops and it's the funniest 1908 01:54:12,439 --> 01:54:14,880 Speaker 1: part of the movie. And I just like laugh off 1909 01:54:14,880 --> 01:54:18,240 Speaker 1: off um and then Danny DeVito comes in and calls 1910 01:54:18,280 --> 01:54:25,240 Speaker 1: them surfer dudes and male strippers, which is like, but again, 1911 01:54:25,280 --> 01:54:28,400 Speaker 1: that's sort of like confronting. He's like, he's like picture 1912 01:54:28,479 --> 01:54:34,600 Speaker 1: of his own masculinity. Like, right, you know, he's anti surfer, 1913 01:54:36,200 --> 01:54:39,360 Speaker 1: anti surfer dudes and male strippers, surfer dude masculinity. We 1914 01:54:39,440 --> 01:54:42,960 Speaker 1: gotta talk about it. Um, we've already covered point break, 1915 01:54:43,080 --> 01:54:49,080 Speaker 1: Um that surfer dude cops do. Yeah, but yeah, this 1916 01:54:49,120 --> 01:54:52,160 Speaker 1: movie is not pro cop which is saying a lot 1917 01:54:52,200 --> 01:54:55,040 Speaker 1: for a movie from the nineties. I want to believe 1918 01:54:55,080 --> 01:54:59,920 Speaker 1: that's the inner Danny DeVito to I do I do to, 1919 01:55:00,160 --> 01:55:03,160 Speaker 1: And I also love that, Like you know, in my 1920 01:55:03,240 --> 01:55:06,040 Speaker 1: head canon of like what happens to Matilda later is 1921 01:55:06,120 --> 01:55:11,680 Speaker 1: she flourishes as a BiCon and is like, you know, 1922 01:55:11,880 --> 01:55:14,640 Speaker 1: totally at protests with a sign that's like a cab 1923 01:55:15,200 --> 01:55:19,760 Speaker 1: you know, Wilson rules. I mean, because that's who she 1924 01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:22,320 Speaker 1: is too, Like, that's what she's doing in real life, 1925 01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:26,160 Speaker 1: exactly similar, I imagine, I would hope a similar trajectory. 1926 01:55:26,200 --> 01:55:30,560 Speaker 1: It's like Mario Wilson, but if she still had magical powers, yeah, exactly, 1927 01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:34,200 Speaker 1: which she might. You know, Yeah, we have to ask 1928 01:55:34,240 --> 01:55:41,880 Speaker 1: her um, does this movie pass the Bechdel tests? For sure? 1929 01:55:44,200 --> 01:55:46,640 Speaker 1: Lots lots of lots between a lot of different combinations 1930 01:55:46,680 --> 01:55:51,240 Speaker 1: of characters. As far as our nipple scale zero to 1931 01:55:51,320 --> 01:55:56,040 Speaker 1: five nipples based on how the movie fares. Looking at 1932 01:55:56,040 --> 01:55:59,760 Speaker 1: it through an intersectional feminist lens, this one is tricky 1933 01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:04,400 Speaker 1: has while it's doing some good things as far as 1934 01:56:04,440 --> 01:56:08,200 Speaker 1: it's kind of like themes and more like the moral 1935 01:56:08,280 --> 01:56:12,320 Speaker 1: statement the movie is making and and how so many 1936 01:56:12,520 --> 01:56:19,240 Speaker 1: people just took positive messaging away from the movie. Uh, 1937 01:56:19,280 --> 01:56:21,800 Speaker 1: it is kind of overshadowed by the fact that a 1938 01:56:21,800 --> 01:56:25,560 Speaker 1: lot of the ways in which that messaging gets across 1939 01:56:25,720 --> 01:56:34,720 Speaker 1: is relying on harmful, fat phobic, classist, elitist, homophobic tropes. 1940 01:56:36,440 --> 01:56:39,600 Speaker 1: With that in mind, I feel like I to me, 1941 01:56:39,680 --> 01:56:40,960 Speaker 1: it is going to have to be one of those 1942 01:56:40,960 --> 01:56:43,400 Speaker 1: like split down the middle movies, where like it's doing 1943 01:56:43,440 --> 01:56:48,400 Speaker 1: good stuff but by way of bad stuff. So yeah, 1944 01:56:48,520 --> 01:56:49,840 Speaker 1: I think I can only give it two and a 1945 01:56:49,880 --> 01:56:52,920 Speaker 1: half nipples. I do. We didn't touch on this really, 1946 01:56:52,960 --> 01:56:55,160 Speaker 1: but I do love the kind of theme or like 1947 01:56:55,200 --> 01:57:00,160 Speaker 1: the interpretation of like the Chosen Family narrative, and like 1948 01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:04,320 Speaker 1: that thing is really sweet. I love just again, how 1949 01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:10,080 Speaker 1: like valuing a little girl learning and um, you know, 1950 01:57:10,240 --> 01:57:12,560 Speaker 1: just like having a thirst for knowledge is something that 1951 01:57:12,560 --> 01:57:16,960 Speaker 1: I think is important to see, especially when the movie 1952 01:57:17,000 --> 01:57:20,880 Speaker 1: is directed at children. But yeah, it's a lot of 1953 01:57:20,920 --> 01:57:27,040 Speaker 1: like of the time, nineties era problematic stuff. So two 1954 01:57:27,040 --> 01:57:30,640 Speaker 1: and a half nipples, I will give one tomorrow Wilson, 1955 01:57:31,520 --> 01:57:36,520 Speaker 1: one to Pam Ferris, and one to the poor cat 1956 01:57:36,800 --> 01:57:42,120 Speaker 1: who is kicked by trunch bowl. Looks like fly, looks 1957 01:57:42,120 --> 01:57:46,640 Speaker 1: like fly hit it hit and does have eight nipples there. 1958 01:57:46,640 --> 01:57:55,040 Speaker 1: I brought cat facts back a very special appearances. I'll 1959 01:57:55,040 --> 01:57:57,160 Speaker 1: meet you at at two and a half. I think 1960 01:57:57,200 --> 01:58:01,800 Speaker 1: that there's this movie. I mean it's like it's it's 1961 01:58:01,840 --> 01:58:05,000 Speaker 1: tough because it's like we've talked about this whole episode. 1962 01:58:05,120 --> 01:58:07,840 Speaker 1: There is a lot of heart and I think good 1963 01:58:07,880 --> 01:58:10,360 Speaker 1: intent at the core of this movie. And and that 1964 01:58:10,800 --> 01:58:16,120 Speaker 1: really does make a ton of difference. However, I mean, 1965 01:58:16,440 --> 01:58:20,560 Speaker 1: starting from the person who wrote the story, it wouldn't 1966 01:58:21,080 --> 01:58:25,920 Speaker 1: with whom there's a trend of baggage attached. And um, 1967 01:58:26,000 --> 01:58:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, his prejudice is kind of being difficult to 1968 01:58:29,640 --> 01:58:33,680 Speaker 1: remove it impossible in some ways. To remove from his 1969 01:58:33,760 --> 01:58:37,640 Speaker 1: own material is basically impossible. And so we see these 1970 01:58:37,800 --> 01:58:42,480 Speaker 1: homophobic tendencies that you know are also inherent to the nineties, 1971 01:58:42,520 --> 01:58:48,000 Speaker 1: like the homophobia, the fat phobia, the symbolic inclusion of 1972 01:58:48,040 --> 01:58:51,120 Speaker 1: people of color. But the characters could be caught out 1973 01:58:51,160 --> 01:58:54,920 Speaker 1: easily and don't have stories of their own. And so 1974 01:58:55,040 --> 01:59:00,919 Speaker 1: while I love Matilda and I do love the message 1975 01:59:01,000 --> 01:59:03,400 Speaker 1: at the core of her and Miss Honey's relationship and 1976 01:59:03,480 --> 01:59:08,520 Speaker 1: story of chosen family of adults listening to and taking 1977 01:59:08,600 --> 01:59:11,680 Speaker 1: children seriously, which is just always a message I respond 1978 01:59:11,760 --> 01:59:16,200 Speaker 1: really strongly to, and and everyone's life improving as a 1979 01:59:16,240 --> 01:59:20,080 Speaker 1: result of listening to children and taking them seriously. There's 1980 01:59:20,120 --> 01:59:24,120 Speaker 1: so much good. And then the tools used to arrive 1981 01:59:24,280 --> 01:59:28,200 Speaker 1: at that very good conclusion are just very loaded and 1982 01:59:28,320 --> 01:59:32,240 Speaker 1: very harmful in many ways. So two and a half. 1983 01:59:32,920 --> 01:59:37,680 Speaker 1: I will give one to Matilda, I will give one 1984 01:59:37,840 --> 01:59:41,920 Speaker 1: to the Bengo Jacket, and I will give the last 1985 01:59:42,280 --> 01:59:48,960 Speaker 1: half to Lavender. Um, I'm right there with you, with 1986 01:59:49,000 --> 01:59:51,320 Speaker 1: both of you. As much as I love this film, 1987 01:59:51,320 --> 01:59:52,600 Speaker 1: and as much as I sort of joked at the 1988 01:59:52,600 --> 01:59:56,080 Speaker 1: beginning that like I, I I feel like it is very 1989 01:59:56,080 --> 01:59:58,000 Speaker 1: informed of like the person that I have become, Like 1990 01:59:58,120 --> 02:00:02,040 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff that I take like as 1991 02:00:02,120 --> 02:00:05,400 Speaker 1: good from the film is stuff that like I'm bringing 1992 02:00:05,400 --> 02:00:09,240 Speaker 1: to it now and not like stuff that's necessarily in there. 1993 02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:11,440 Speaker 1: And we do that a lot as as you know. 1994 02:00:12,520 --> 02:00:14,760 Speaker 1: I think it is like queer and gender diverse people. 1995 02:00:14,960 --> 02:00:18,640 Speaker 1: You know, for a really long time, stories weren't made 1996 02:00:18,720 --> 02:00:22,000 Speaker 1: about us. And so you know when we get like 1997 02:00:22,040 --> 02:00:24,680 Speaker 1: a queer villain like trench Ball, and we get like 1998 02:00:24,720 --> 02:00:27,400 Speaker 1: a queer story like this, because I still think Matilda 1999 02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:31,440 Speaker 1: like Zinny is basically in drag the whole time. Um, 2000 02:00:31,480 --> 02:00:34,400 Speaker 1: there are like no male love interests, Like this is 2001 02:00:34,440 --> 02:00:38,480 Speaker 1: a very queer story. And but like that wasn't put there, 2002 02:00:38,520 --> 02:00:42,200 Speaker 1: I don't think intentionally. I think that is like interpretation 2003 02:00:42,280 --> 02:00:46,400 Speaker 1: coming like after the fact. Um. And yeah, the chosen 2004 02:00:46,440 --> 02:00:50,560 Speaker 1: family side of things is wonderful. And I would say 2005 02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:54,280 Speaker 1: to anybody who might be out there and feeling like 2006 02:00:55,040 --> 02:00:58,120 Speaker 1: they are not appreciated by their family or they are 2007 02:00:58,200 --> 02:01:00,720 Speaker 1: not being loved and nurtured way that they need to 2008 02:01:00,760 --> 02:01:03,920 Speaker 1: be that like, sometimes the people you are related to 2009 02:01:03,920 --> 02:01:06,560 Speaker 1: you can't do that for you, and you can find 2010 02:01:06,560 --> 02:01:10,600 Speaker 1: other people who who will love you and appreciate you. 2011 02:01:10,640 --> 02:01:13,320 Speaker 1: Like those people are out there, and you should never 2012 02:01:13,360 --> 02:01:18,880 Speaker 1: hesitate to seek out your chosen family because yeah, you know, 2013 02:01:18,960 --> 02:01:22,440 Speaker 1: like you deserve that, you deserve to be left and nurtured. Um, 2014 02:01:22,520 --> 02:01:27,960 Speaker 1: so two and a half nipples I will give. Oh man, 2015 02:01:28,480 --> 02:01:31,160 Speaker 1: now we just want nipples on the Bingo jacket somewhere. 2016 02:01:31,560 --> 02:01:35,040 Speaker 1: So I feel like, you know what I feel like. 2017 02:01:35,080 --> 02:01:39,200 Speaker 1: I will give a nipple to Maura Wilson because not 2018 02:01:39,240 --> 02:01:41,160 Speaker 1: only is she incredible in this movie. Not only is 2019 02:01:41,200 --> 02:01:44,160 Speaker 1: she incredible now, but she was also like in the 2020 02:01:44,160 --> 02:01:46,640 Speaker 1: process of losing her mom during this whole thing, as 2021 02:01:46,680 --> 02:01:49,320 Speaker 1: a you know, and as a kid. I can't imagine 2022 02:01:49,320 --> 02:01:53,080 Speaker 1: what kind of like stress that is so huge. One 2023 02:01:53,160 --> 02:01:56,839 Speaker 1: nipple for Mara. Um, I would give my other nipple 2024 02:01:56,920 --> 02:02:01,760 Speaker 1: to pan Fist as well. She's amazing and she did 2025 02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:03,920 Speaker 1: such a fantastic job in this film just being such 2026 02:02:03,960 --> 02:02:07,600 Speaker 1: a hammy camp villa in I hope there's somebody out 2027 02:02:07,640 --> 02:02:09,880 Speaker 1: there who does trunch bowl drag. I'm going to look 2028 02:02:09,920 --> 02:02:12,880 Speaker 1: it up. I bet there is. I'm gonna I'm gonna 2029 02:02:12,920 --> 02:02:14,960 Speaker 1: look it up, and if not, I am going to 2030 02:02:15,920 --> 02:02:20,040 Speaker 1: it's your time to shine exactly. And then my last 2031 02:02:20,040 --> 02:02:25,520 Speaker 1: half nipple, um, my last half nipple hasco that Bengo jacket. 2032 02:02:25,520 --> 02:02:28,360 Speaker 1: I'm going to recreate that Bengo jacket. I know, I 2033 02:02:28,760 --> 02:02:31,520 Speaker 1: feel like there should be we have to contact Superyarchy 2034 02:02:31,640 --> 02:02:36,120 Speaker 1: stat there should be repros of of the Bengo jacket, 2035 02:02:36,400 --> 02:02:40,800 Speaker 1: or we should have like a like a crafternoon. That 2036 02:02:40,840 --> 02:02:44,120 Speaker 1: would be so fun. Oh my god, this is the 2037 02:02:44,160 --> 02:02:49,400 Speaker 1: first time I'm hearing this expression. Crafternoon. Yes, and it's 2038 02:02:49,640 --> 02:02:54,280 Speaker 1: changed my life. Imagine the time we're going to save. Absolutely, 2039 02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:59,720 Speaker 1: crafternoons are great. Well, Jess, thank you so much for 2040 02:03:00,040 --> 02:03:03,920 Speaker 1: coming back and for this bringing a wonderful discussion that 2041 02:03:04,040 --> 02:03:07,680 Speaker 1: was a pleasure. Where can people follow your stuff, check 2042 02:03:07,680 --> 02:03:13,040 Speaker 1: out your stuff online, support you, etcetera. Um So, the 2043 02:03:13,080 --> 02:03:15,920 Speaker 1: best way, the best place to find me is at 2044 02:03:16,160 --> 02:03:21,040 Speaker 1: rad Babe on Instagram and it's like underscore rad Underscore 2045 02:03:21,040 --> 02:03:24,000 Speaker 1: Babe Underscore. Anyway, if you search Jeff Marilyn, you'll find 2046 02:03:24,000 --> 02:03:28,240 Speaker 1: me on Instagram. Um. I didn't think about the branding 2047 02:03:28,240 --> 02:03:32,680 Speaker 1: when I chose the name. Okay uh and I'm I'm 2048 02:03:32,680 --> 02:03:36,120 Speaker 1: always out there in the world doing doing queer stuff, 2049 02:03:36,160 --> 02:03:42,120 Speaker 1: doing in indigit queer stuff, doing fat stuff, doing movie stuff. 2050 02:03:42,400 --> 02:03:43,880 Speaker 1: Um So that's the best way to find me in 2051 02:03:43,880 --> 02:03:46,520 Speaker 1: to to follow me. Um if you happen to be 2052 02:03:46,520 --> 02:03:49,720 Speaker 1: in Montreal. Right now, the Cedar t Project, which is 2053 02:03:49,760 --> 02:03:55,120 Speaker 1: a black and Indigenous solidarity project especially for street involved folks, 2054 02:03:55,880 --> 02:03:59,200 Speaker 1: is doing a fundraiser, so you can check them out 2055 02:03:59,280 --> 02:04:01,960 Speaker 1: on Facebook at the Theater Tea Project if you're looking 2056 02:04:01,960 --> 02:04:04,960 Speaker 1: for something to support UM. I also have their information 2057 02:04:05,120 --> 02:04:08,400 Speaker 1: up on my Instagram, so that's why you can find me. 2058 02:04:08,480 --> 02:04:11,440 Speaker 1: I have a film that I made, a documentary called 2059 02:04:11,480 --> 02:04:14,080 Speaker 1: Love is the First Sacred Lesson that is going to 2060 02:04:14,080 --> 02:04:16,480 Speaker 1: be playing some film festivals this fall, so keep an 2061 02:04:16,520 --> 02:04:20,040 Speaker 1: eye up for that. Congratulations, Thank you, thank you. I'm 2062 02:04:20,120 --> 02:04:23,240 Speaker 1: very excited because it takes so long to make films 2063 02:04:23,400 --> 02:04:26,720 Speaker 1: and then you know, you're like, I don't really want 2064 02:04:26,760 --> 02:04:29,960 Speaker 1: to have anything to do with it anymore, so put 2065 02:04:29,960 --> 02:04:33,080 Speaker 1: it out in the world. No, no, I this this 2066 02:04:33,120 --> 02:04:34,560 Speaker 1: film is really really close to my heart in a 2067 02:04:34,560 --> 02:04:36,400 Speaker 1: lot a lot of ways, so I'm excited for people 2068 02:04:36,400 --> 02:04:39,360 Speaker 1: to see it. Wonderful. Thank you so much for being 2069 02:04:39,360 --> 02:04:42,560 Speaker 1: here again. Whenever you want to come back, bring us 2070 02:04:42,560 --> 02:04:44,920 Speaker 1: another movie and we'll talk more. Oh absolutely, And you guys, 2071 02:04:44,960 --> 02:04:46,960 Speaker 1: you know, come to Montreal now that like things are 2072 02:04:47,000 --> 02:04:53,160 Speaker 1: opening up a little bit, like well craft, dude, baby, Absolutely, 2073 02:04:53,840 --> 02:05:01,560 Speaker 1: and we'll eat bagels and you know speak French. Carolyn 2074 02:05:01,600 --> 02:05:03,680 Speaker 1: and I are always doing that, so it's just gonna 2075 02:05:03,680 --> 02:05:06,760 Speaker 1: be another day for us, right, It's gonna be amazing. 2076 02:05:08,640 --> 02:05:12,360 Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter and Instagram at Becktel Cast. 2077 02:05:12,440 --> 02:05:17,400 Speaker 1: You can subscribe to our Patreon ak Matreon. It's five 2078 02:05:17,440 --> 02:05:19,600 Speaker 1: dollars a month. It gets you access to two bonus 2079 02:05:19,680 --> 02:05:23,320 Speaker 1: episodes every month, plus the entire back catalog, which is 2080 02:05:24,000 --> 02:05:27,000 Speaker 1: over one hundred bonus episodes at this point, so there's 2081 02:05:27,160 --> 02:05:29,360 Speaker 1: lots of stuff to go through. It's a good time 2082 02:05:29,400 --> 02:05:32,720 Speaker 1: to join um. You can also get our merch at 2083 02:05:33,320 --> 02:05:36,160 Speaker 1: dot com Slage The Bechtel Cast, follow your heart, do 2084 02:05:36,200 --> 02:05:38,160 Speaker 1: it or don't do it, We won't know either way. 2085 02:05:38,200 --> 02:05:40,120 Speaker 1: But if you want some stuff, that's where you can 2086 02:05:40,160 --> 02:05:44,880 Speaker 1: get some stuff. And with that, seems like we've gotten 2087 02:05:44,920 --> 02:05:50,400 Speaker 1: pretty adequately sticky this episode. I'm extremely sticky, very stick 2088 02:05:50,640 --> 02:05:59,040 Speaker 1: Never been stickier sticky with discourse. That is wow. Whoa okay, 2089 02:05:59,080 --> 02:06:00,200 Speaker 1: bye bye ye