WEBVTT - How Profiling Works 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:08.200 Dude, do do what was that? That is a heraldic announcement? Yes, 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.200 before we get going. Uh. I know people on social 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:14.280 media already know this stuff, but I wanted to announce 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:18.480 on the podcast that Chuck here has adopted a baby. Girl. 0:00:18.920 --> 0:00:22.680 Chuck has a baby, A beautiful baby. Yeah she is. 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.159 She's cuteie. She she was ten days late, so she 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:27.920 came out not looking like one of those little alien 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.640 creatures fully formed. Yes, what's her name, Chuck? Her name 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.080 is Ruby Rose Bryant Man. She's so cute and she 0:00:35.240 --> 0:00:38.680 was born on your birthday. Yeah, isn't that crazy? One 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:40.839 of the better days of the year. Duly take but 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.720 isn't that remarkable? I think it is remarkable out of 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.919 all the days. And I was literally I was just like, well, 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:49.640 let me scroll through the celebrity birthday it's just you know, 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:52.720 for giggles to see what you know, who shares your birthday? 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:55.240 About three course the way down it's all your face. 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:57.480 And I had forgotten it was your birthday because I 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.840 was just in another planet. And I like, immediately I 0:01:00.840 --> 0:01:02.560 was like, dimly, you got to see this. You'll never 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.199 guess whose birthday she shares. So I think that's really neat. Um. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:11.800 So anyway, uh, thank you everybody for the support. Stop 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:15.240 stop chuck, yes on behalf of every stuff you should know. 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.880 A listener out there, congratulations to you and Emily. Do 0:01:18.959 --> 0:01:21.120 you feel like you can speak for them, Yes, of course, 0:01:21.640 --> 0:01:23.440 because there might be like one guy out there he's like, 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:26.880 I don't care, he can stop listening right now. But 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.640 I do have some people to thank. Um. This happened 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:34.360 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and um, we stayed in this little 0:01:34.400 --> 0:01:37.320 area called East Village. It was literally like a block 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:42.640 in this loft and airbnb loft and above pizza place 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:44.600 and across the street from a bar. And I'll bet 0:01:44.600 --> 0:01:46.640 you have some people to think. Yeah, these people like 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.200 took us in as family. It was like literally every day, 0:01:50.360 --> 0:01:52.760 you know, for ten days late. We're out there two 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.600 days early, so for like two weeks they were like, 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:58.560 what's going on? You know, where's this baby? So I 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.960 want to thank I've just been which you would love 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:04.720 to do. This cocktail bar right up your alley. It 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.280 sounds like you said cocktail bar. Yeah, And not only 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.680 do they make like fresh you know, fresh ingredients, but 0:02:09.720 --> 0:02:11.960 they don't have like a thing of cucumber sliced stuff. 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:17.040 They cucumber as needed and you know the jalapeno you 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:19.720 would have. They were doing it right there. So Jamie 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:22.919 and Nate and Nicole and Ian the chef at I've 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:24.360 just been. It was the stuff you should know. Man. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:26.040 Oh yeah. He came out and he was like, is 0:02:26.080 --> 0:02:28.919 it who I think it is? How fortuitous? How fortuitous? 0:02:29.320 --> 0:02:33.160 And then uh, East Village Bohemian Pizzeria. We stayed above 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:36.000 this place and they were great. Did the smell drive 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:37.800 you nuts all the time? But we ate a lot 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:41.639 of people. Uh So Pat there and my boy Max, 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.600 Max and I really hit it off. We're like genuine 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:49.000 life pals now. Uh and he at the end I 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:51.200 go to leave and I just give him a letter 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:54.639 saying thank you and here's my contact info. And then like, ps, 0:02:54.720 --> 0:02:56.760 by the way, I have a podcast. He's an ornithologist, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:02:59.880 he has his master's, but he's not doing that right 0:02:59.880 --> 0:03:02.600 now out you know, he's running this pizza point and 0:03:02.919 --> 0:03:04.239 just a really smart guy. Was like, I think you 0:03:04.320 --> 0:03:08.200 might like this podcast. I do. He comes up and 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:10.920 tells me afterwards, this is like our parting words. He 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.200 was like, dude, your chuck. It's like really I had 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.880 a weird like thing. He said, I knew that you 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:18.960 seem familiar, but I didn't want to say anything, like 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.480 even watched the TV show. Oh wow. So Max was like, 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:27.640 that's probably why I didn't want to say anything. Yeah, 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:30.120 he didn't want to bring it up. So huge thanks 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.800 to those guys. And then um our caseworker Jessica Um 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.280 also a stuff you should know fan. That is amazing 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.040 because at the end of our first call, like a 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:40.480 month ago, she went, all right, we've got business done. 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:42.840 I have something I have to admit. It's like I'm 0:03:42.880 --> 0:03:45.520 a huge man man. So it was weird. It was 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:47.800 like the stuff you should Know nation sort of caring 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:51.320 for me. Yeah, and all of the people like you. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:53.840 You put a picture of Ruby rose up. Yeah, and 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.360 like broke the internet. It was it was people love 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.280 the new Bores. Well yeah, but people love Chuck's newborn. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:01.720 But you know it could have been a puppy and 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:07.240 probably gotten. Don't think I don't do that was very sweet. Yeah, 0:04:07.480 --> 0:04:09.120 so that meant a lot to me. But Jessica and 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:11.240 her two sons, Hugh and Henry, I know they are 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.280 listeners to They are awesome boys. And she really took 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.840 care of us, So I'm glad it worked out. Like man, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.800 three weeks in Tulsa, it was a weird and stressful 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.560 and but it sounds wonderful. Yeah, good start though. Yeah, 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.560 I mean we were in there. Emily helped deliver this baby, 0:04:26.320 --> 0:04:28.520 and I was in the man zone right behind. I 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:31.400 am so proud of you guys. Yeah, I'm so happy 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:33.599 for you guys. I also want to say Jerry is 0:04:33.600 --> 0:04:37.560 not allowed to talk. Jerry feels the exact same way. She's, well, 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:40.359 we could take the duck table today maybe, Jerry, how 0:04:40.400 --> 0:04:45.440 do you feel? Yes, yeah, she agreed. She just spelled 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:50.440 out on the speaking spelled him anyway. This is not 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:53.120 gonna become the New Baby Show. Um, she will probably 0:04:53.160 --> 0:04:56.720 disappear from uh your lives, but just know that we're 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.479 all doing great and thank you for the support. Good 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.760 all right, yep, nice job, Chuck, thanks man, congratulies, Thank you, sir. 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.640 Welcome to Stuff you should Know from House Stuff Works 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:17.599 dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:20.640 There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry, which means it's 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:27.480 time for listener mail. Oh wait, wow about that. I'm 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:29.839 brain to start. That's why we leave that in there. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.400 Do you want to yeah, or maybe I should just 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:36.599 read listener mail. We can go home. Okay, it's a 0:05:37.040 --> 0:05:40.840 build your own episode. Yeah, it's a mad Lives, just 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.880 fill it in. I'm profiling, Yeah, styling and profiling. I'm 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:48.120 pretty excited. Are you styling and profile? Well this is 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:51.359 a great that's a different thing this yeah, okay, I 0:05:51.400 --> 0:05:56.400 think that has to do with um, like photography. No, thanks, 0:05:56.440 --> 0:05:59.680 styling and profile and just means you're living large. Yeah, 0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:05.080 you're fashionable and oh gotcha. Yeah, no, this is different 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.800 and this is a grabst article, which is the mark 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.400 of quality as we all know it is. It's refreshing 0:06:11.440 --> 0:06:13.680 to see and it is Um, we should just say 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:17.640 right off the bat, profiling is a super divisive topic. 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:22.400 Oh yeah, um, there are many ways to look at it, 0:06:22.480 --> 0:06:25.400 and all they make sense sometimes on both sides. It's 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:30.200 a tough one. Yeah, so that's my cadiat. It's divisive. 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:35.560 So um. One thing that Grabster immediately points out is like, 0:06:36.320 --> 0:06:40.880 not all profiling is profiling, like you think of Sure, 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:42.840 we're going to talk about all the different ways, right, 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:47.080 There's plenty of accepted forms of profiling. And the first one, 0:06:47.760 --> 0:06:50.720 um is the standard all points bulletin or be on 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.320 the lookout, right, that's the kind that no one has 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.359 a problem with. No one does because that you you 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:59.560 know what that is. That's uh silver Toyota to come 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.440 on with spy today and white male in his mid 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:07.080 forties with spiky hair and uh sort of chubby with 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:11.640 a big gross gray black beard has committed a crime 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.480 and he's wearing cargo shorts and flip flops. Oh, I 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:20.280 see you're describing yourself profiler, but you put in their 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:23.200 white male. And the reason that's what I am, the 0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.800 reason why people don't have a problem with this is 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:31.000 twofold one. A crime has already been committed. Yeah, okay, 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.280 I committed a crime. So the police work is finding 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:37.000 a perpetrator that has already committed a crime. And secondly, 0:07:37.400 --> 0:07:43.800 that profile is based on eyewitness accounts descriptions of the person. 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:46.960 That's right, So that profile is being used to to 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:51.640 track down a specific person. Has nothing to do with 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:55.640 anybody else. Who's white, has nothing to do with anybody else, 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:58.720 who drives a silver Tacoma, has nothing to do with 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:03.720 any of that jazz. It's just this guy is suspected 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.440 of having committed this crime, and he looks like this. 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.840 Yeah you hear you see it on the news every night. Yes, 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:12.600 you know it's not just cops that use this. The 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:17.000 news will say the suspect is, you know, wearing a handsome, 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:24.880 checkered Oxford button down, whispy hair, and white, straight teeth. Exactly, 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.760 so they're describing you. Oh you think my teeth are nice? 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:30.960 I didn't say that. I said they were white and straight. 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:35.720 That's nice if that's what you're into. This is coming 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:37.760 from a guy who just found out he's about to 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:42.000 have to lose his front tooth all over again. Start over. Yeah, man, 0:08:42.080 --> 0:08:44.120 that sucks. Which I know there are some fans out 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:48.200 there that are laughing. Aaron Cooper, that toothless Chuck is 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.720 coming back in the house for It's it's really just him. Yeah, 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:54.040 he's the only one whould be jerky enough to laugh 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.360 at that. That kind of misfortune, you know, I know, 0:08:57.480 --> 0:08:59.600 I'm sorry to bring that up. I'm just still reeling 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.560 from that discovery. It stinks. You think you get an 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:06.960 implant and it's for life, Yeah, especially when they sell 0:09:07.040 --> 0:09:12.160 you a lifetime implant. Yea, yeah, exactly, alright. So, uh, 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.440 like you said, including descriptions and skin color is not 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:20.320 controversial in this case. No, it's in. Everybody from the 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:23.800 FEDS to the local police are okay with that. Yeah, 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.160 they're all in on it, and and not just completely 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.760 like everybody's like, yeah, this is fine, this makes sense. Sure, 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:33.439 not a thing that's right. The next one is psychological profiling. 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:35.480 And this is when you don't have a lot of 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.520 physical evidence or you don't have an eyewitness, and you're 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.400 trying to fill in the blanks and make some good 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.960 guesses billy blanks based on I remember that guy. Uh, 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.840 some good guesses based on like the crime scene or 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:52.120 just the circumstances of the crime. Yes, again, a crime 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:54.080 has already taken place, and you're trying to figure out 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:58.200 who solved it, and you're taking salt who committed it. 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.080 You're trying to figure out who's gonna solve it, all right, 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:05.679 all right, which you figure out the same moment when 0:10:05.720 --> 0:10:08.280 as you do when you figure out who committed it. 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:10.680 It's interesting in mind bending, Right twice you've jumped to 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.120 the end of something. It's so weird. I don't know 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:17.040 what that means. I think you know what it means. Uh, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.679 sometimes they are vague. But wait, I hadn't finished my thought. Okay, 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:22.480 I didn't mess it up that bad. Let me go 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.600 back and finish. Um. The point is it's drawn from 0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:32.600 available evidence. Yeah, clues, clues that you're bringing together to 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.440 try to draw them up an idea of who did 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:39.560 this right exactly? Okay, So sometimes it can be vague, 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:42.959 but if you watch TV and movies, um, it is 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.640 probably not how it really goes down, but it's super 0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.200 specific when you see it in fiction, right, you know, 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.000 like I think this, uh as a man who was 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:55.959 beating as a child and he probably lives alone or 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.040 Sherlock Holmes was really good at that kind of thing. 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:03.079 So a good point of Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, that's good stuff. Uh. 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:06.720 Did you know he was a morphine and cocaine addict? Yeah, 0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.559 well I guess you need both in like the original stories? Really? Yeah? 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:17.080 Oh like in the books. Wow, not the real guy, right, 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:19.280 as I think, Yeah, are you sure you're not just 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:23.320 thinking of Robert Downey Jr. I mean I've read the 0:11:23.360 --> 0:11:27.360 Originals and he like does he shoots morphine in it? 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.760 And and Watson is not very happy with the whole thing. 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:34.680 Yeah he's straight edge. No he's not straight edge, but 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.560 he doesn't he's not a junkie, you know. But he 0:11:38.559 --> 0:11:42.000 didn't care. He was like Watson washed my toes. I 0:11:42.080 --> 0:11:49.400 can alright, moving on to predictive profiling. Well, yeah, this 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:51.640 is where it starts to get a little messy. Yeah, 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.599 I can get a little controversial. Even psychological profiling is 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:56.520 a little controversial. I have to say, chuck, like, it's 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:59.400 not a proven, tried and true thing. It's as much 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:04.600 a guessing game is anything else. Um, But it's not 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:09.320 nearly still as controversial as predictive profiling, because now you're 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:13.880 trying to say, these people will probably commit a crime, 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:18.520 right not not not? Civil rights are it issue? Big time? 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.240 Big time? Um. Police officers do great work. Ideally they're 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:28.439 not just reacting to committed crimes, but they are um 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:32.040 driving around the neighborhood looking for a suspicious person that 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:35.160 might be about to commit a crime, to prevent crime, 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:37.120 to prevent a crime, which is stuff to do. You know, 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.520 it's right place, right time in most cases. And you 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:44.760 use the word ideally right ideally okay, yes, Um, So 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:48.400 even when this happens, this Supreme Court is roundly um 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:54.800 sided with police officers. UM as profiling for justification. So 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.560 it's legally speaking, Okay, it's on the books. It's on 0:12:58.600 --> 0:13:02.319 the books. So so give an example of the kind 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:05.600 of profiling that's okay to be used. UM, the one 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:09.240 of the articles. Great. UM, let's say you're in uh, 0:13:09.600 --> 0:13:14.480 South Florida and you're you're traveling up and you're in 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.760 a it's four a m. And you're in a rented 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:22.880 black suv with tinted windows, and you have the spare 0:13:22.920 --> 0:13:26.559 tire in the back seat removed. UM, I'm sorry, it's 0:13:26.840 --> 0:13:29.559 removed from the trunks area. It's in the backseat, just 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.640 sitting in the back seat. Might be might be a 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:38.320 drug trafficker, right, And the cop is basing this on 0:13:38.520 --> 0:13:42.520 something like, um, a profile, Yeah, but a profile based 0:13:42.559 --> 0:13:46.679 on previous experiences with other drug dealers in the same area. 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.680 Because that's a really big one right there. Like UM. 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:54.320 One of the things for using profiles successfully is it 0:13:54.440 --> 0:13:57.640 has it's it has it has to be over a 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.760 certain period of time and associated with a certain place. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:07.720 So you use Miami and say Miami in right, if 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:09.920 you saw that person and you would say, well, this 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.680 is probably a cocaine trafficker based on all the other 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.960 dealings with cocaine traffickers who who used the same transportation 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:19.120 m O. Yeah, and we should point out the tires 0:14:19.120 --> 0:14:21.160 removed because you can then hide the drugs where the 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.320 spare tire went, and then that's why the tires in 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.600 the back seat. Yes, so these are red flags. But 0:14:28.400 --> 0:14:33.080 if you're like in um Wyoming in two thousand fifteen 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.120 and you read an article about how that held true 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:42.280 in Miami, that is not necessarily a justifiable transference of 0:14:42.320 --> 0:14:45.440 profiling because it exists in a different time, in a 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.600 different place. That's so, like you said, this can be 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:53.320 a this can be high level policy, UM, it can 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:57.720 be unofficial policy. It can be just merely experienced as 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:00.720 a police officer. That's something you've can countered from time 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:06.200 to time and basically to determine if this profile justifies 0:15:06.240 --> 0:15:10.280 a search warrantless search, that is, in other words, you 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:13.080 haven't gone to the judge and as applied for a 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:14.880 warrant and had them review it and all that stuff 0:15:15.120 --> 0:15:17.920 or rubber stamp it, which we'll get to. UM, it's 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:21.200 got a stand up in court, right, and so you 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.560 gotta be careful as a cop. You do. Um, you 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:27.480 have to have what's called an articulable suspicion, which was 0:15:27.600 --> 0:15:33.080 established by a nineteen case or Supreme Court ruling Terry 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.480 versus Ohio. And the Supreme Court said, and this is 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.600 actually from a Matt ti ab Um article. It's really 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:43.360 really worth reading. It's called Why Baltimore Blew Up. It 0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:46.360 was in Rolling Stone like a month or two ago. 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:49.560 It's a very good article. Um. But he talks about 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.720 this Terry case led to what it called Terry stops. 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:57.280 Whereas if a cop has a suspicion that they can 0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:02.240 put into words, meaning it's not just a hunch, right, um, 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:06.800 that somebody is is either just committed a crime or 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:10.920 going to commit a crime, that that is probable cause 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.040 and it's bounds for as search. Yeah, and here's a 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:17.000 had a great example here, like let's say the cop 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:19.880 and court would say this the suspect of pure nervous 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:22.960 made several contradictory statements. In the back seat, I saw 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.480 a shoebox full of old film canisters, which drug carriers 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.840 commonly use. The car smelled like air freshener spray, which 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:31.880 is used to cover up the smell of drugs, and 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:34.280 I spotted them driving slowly up and down a block 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.440 that I know is frequented by drug dealers. That's called 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:41.120 good police work in court. Right, that's called like a 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:45.120 prosecutor's dream cop. Yeah. Um, and if you if you 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:47.800 go back and you notice all of that stuff, all 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.720 of these things are based on. So a block that 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.800 he knows to be frequented by drug dealers, thirty five 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:59.160 millimeter canisters. Maybe he read a Police Benevolent Association newsletter 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:03.440 article about that. Um, all of this stuff together, um 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:08.000 becomes what's called cumulative similarities. And supposedly a Florida Highway 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:12.680 patrolman named Bob Vogel is the first guy to put 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.840 this down on paper. He was very controversial, which is, 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.919 you take all of these different things and put them together, 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:21.200 and you can form a profile, and you can use 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:25.440 that to pull somebody over and then you know, eventually 0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:30.159 search their car if you're a Florida Highway patrolman. Right, So, um, 0:17:30.200 --> 0:17:33.080 you've got you've got all of these. Uh. You have 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:36.600 the terry stops, which are used for broken windows policing 0:17:36.600 --> 0:17:40.679 and just for pulling people over, but they require an 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:45.160 articulable suspicion. But they can be based on where called 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.120 cumulative similarities, which is a profile either like that your 0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.320 police department is saying be on the lookout for people 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:56.920 driving with their spare tire in the backseat, um at 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:01.600 this time of night. So far, this has all been 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.960 upheld by the Supreme Court. That's right. But there's a 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:10.919 very very fine line um that is frequently crossed, and 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:13.919 we will talk about how that runs a foul of 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:33.960 the Constitution right after this. All right, Josh, before we 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.720 took a break, you mentioned something called the Constitution, and 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:39.760 there are a couple of amendments that come into play 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:44.800 when you're talking about search and seizure, probable cause, profile ancure, 0:18:45.280 --> 0:18:48.879 and they are the fourth and fourteenth Amendments. The fourth 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.919 reads and whole the right of the people to be 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:56.320 secure in their persons. The JFK I went into him 0:18:56.359 --> 0:19:00.840 Winston Churchill. Sure, it's both houses papers and effects against 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:05.280 unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:09.000 warrant shall issue, but upon probable costs, supported by oath 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:12.560 of affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:15.520 and the persons of things to be seized. So there's 0:19:15.520 --> 0:19:18.520 some big words in there. That's right, big, big like 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:24.760 money words like Uh, it's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures, 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:28.680 which means, as far as the Supreme Court's concerned, some 0:19:28.760 --> 0:19:31.919 cops just can't say I'm gonna push you up against 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:35.720 the wall and pat you down for no reason whatsoever. Yeah, 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.800 Or I'm gonna pull you over for no reason, and 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:40.560 I'm gonna search your car on the side of the 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:45.480 road for no reason. Um, does not happen, right of course? 0:19:45.520 --> 0:19:50.800 Not sure? So, Um, that's the Fourth Amendment, right, And uh, 0:19:50.960 --> 0:19:54.520 there's another big term in there. It's called probable cause, 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:58.040 like you have to have And if a lot of 0:19:58.040 --> 0:20:02.680 people say that that versus Ohio ruling is just too 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:07.960 broad in articulable suspicion, like what is that you know? Um? 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:12.399 But even still there's there's so there has to be 0:20:12.600 --> 0:20:15.880 some sort of probable cause. And a lot of the times, 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:20.199 as we'll see, it's just from uh, some something out 0:20:20.240 --> 0:20:22.359 in plain side or something like that. But there's a 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:26.240 big struggle over what constitutes probable cause. But the point 0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:28.640 is the Fourth Amendment says you have to have probable 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.840 cause or else it's an unreasonable search. That's right. And uh, 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:34.800 a police officer in most cases has to go get 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:38.880 a warrant for like the search of a home or something. Um, 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.600 And there's a whole issue of rubber stamping warrants these 0:20:41.680 --> 0:20:43.920 days of course that like the judge may not even 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.439 really review that. It's just a formality. Or for anybody 0:20:47.440 --> 0:20:49.800 who's watched enough Law and Order episodes, all you have 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:52.480 to do is go, I smell pot. Do you smell pot? 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:55.840 Wink wink, and then kick the door in. Yeah, exactly, 0:20:56.000 --> 0:20:58.160 because that's you can't prove that the cop didn't think 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:01.920 you smell pot exactly. You know, was the threat of perjury, 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.160 of perjuring himself on the stand. But I imagine at 0:21:06.200 --> 0:21:08.919 least as far as like Briscoe and Green are concerned, 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:12.720 they're hoping that they're gonna find such gang buster overwhelming 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:17.959 evidence that everybody's gonna forget about the fake smell of pot. Um. So, 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:21.399 there was actually a case which relates to probable calls 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:26.280 called the US v. Sokolow that made it all the 0:21:26.280 --> 0:21:29.800 way to the Scotus And um, did you read about 0:21:29.800 --> 0:21:33.679 that case? I did? It's um it was well that 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:36.119 was when the ruling was right. Yeah, so what happened 0:21:36.160 --> 0:21:39.440 was the d A arrested a guy at the Honolulu 0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:42.840 airport found over a thousand grams of cocaine and his 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:44.639 carry on. It was a key, he had a kilo 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:48.479 and he paid uh. They the agents knew all this 0:21:48.600 --> 0:21:50.399 going into it. This is why they arrested him. He 0:21:50.400 --> 0:21:54.560 paid bucks for round trip tickets with a roll of 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.920 twenty dollar bills. He traveled under a name that did 0:21:57.960 --> 0:22:02.320 not match the name under which is telephone was listed. Um. 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:08.280 He was originally going to Miami, and in this because 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:10.520 lad flag at the time, he only stayed Miami for 0:22:10.560 --> 0:22:13.520 two days, even though a round trip flight from Honolulu 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:16.359 takes twenty hours, so a very quick trip, and the 0:22:16.359 --> 0:22:18.480 others he was almost flying as long as he was there. 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:23.600 In Miami, he met up with a man named Tony Montana. 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:27.240 Apparently he appeared nervous and he did not check his baggage, 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:32.879 and the district court denied motion to suppress the evidence, 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:36.520 said it was justifiable. The Court of Appeals disagreed and 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:39.200 overturned that, and then eventually it went to the Supreme 0:22:39.200 --> 0:22:42.320 Court and they said no, it's okay because they had 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:46.600 what was quote a totality of evidence. So Here's the 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.960 thing though, the thing that makes that so groundbreaking and nowadays, 0:22:50.000 --> 0:22:52.600 I mean we were raised under so clow right, it 0:22:52.600 --> 0:22:55.159 seems like this is just the norm. But it was 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:58.040 a ground break in case of the time, because nothing 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:00.840 none of that. It's not against the law to pay 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.520 your plane ticket with cash, It's not against the law 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:05.800 to not check your bags at the time. It wasn't 0:23:05.800 --> 0:23:08.280 against the law to travel under an assumed name. Yeah, 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:09.760 and I don't think at the time it was against 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.240 a law to go to Miami just for two days, right, exactly, 0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:16.040 None of this is against the law. And so if 0:23:16.080 --> 0:23:18.760 you if if you just followed the strict interpretation a 0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:21.639 law up to that point there was they couldn't bust 0:23:21.720 --> 0:23:24.000 this guy, even though when they busted him they found 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.000 a kilo of coke, like they knew they would in 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.719 his bag. Um, there wasn't enough there. In the Supreme 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:32.560 Court said, you know what, we we think that when 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:35.200 you put all that stuff together, there is enough there. 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:39.840 Now what constitutes that totality? Is it two pieces of evidence? 0:23:39.920 --> 0:23:42.600 Is that one thing? Um? You know, how much does 0:23:42.640 --> 0:23:44.840