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Speaker 1: Dude, do do what was that? That is a heraldic announcement? Yes,

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Speaker 1: before we get going. Uh. I know people on social

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Speaker 1: media already know this stuff, but I wanted to announce

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Speaker 1: on the podcast that Chuck here has adopted a baby. Girl.

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Speaker 1: Chuck has a baby, A beautiful baby. Yeah she is.

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Speaker 1: She's cuteie. She she was ten days late, so she

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Speaker 1: came out not looking like one of those little alien

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Speaker 1: creatures fully formed. Yes, what's her name, Chuck? Her name

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Speaker 1: is Ruby Rose Bryant Man. She's so cute and she

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Speaker 1: was born on your birthday. Yeah, isn't that crazy? One

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Speaker 1: of the better days of the year. Duly take but

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Speaker 1: isn't that remarkable? I think it is remarkable out of

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Speaker 1: all the days. And I was literally I was just like, well,

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Speaker 1: let me scroll through the celebrity birthday it's just you know,

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Speaker 1: for giggles to see what you know, who shares your birthday?

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Speaker 1: About three course the way down it's all your face.

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Speaker 1: And I had forgotten it was your birthday because I

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Speaker 1: was just in another planet. And I like, immediately I

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Speaker 1: was like, dimly, you got to see this. You'll never

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Speaker 1: guess whose birthday she shares. So I think that's really neat. Um.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, uh, thank you everybody for the support. Stop

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Speaker 1: stop chuck, yes on behalf of every stuff you should know.

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Speaker 1: A listener out there, congratulations to you and Emily. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel like you can speak for them, Yes, of course,

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Speaker 1: because there might be like one guy out there he's like,

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Speaker 1: I don't care, he can stop listening right now. But

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Speaker 1: I do have some people to thank. Um. This happened

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Speaker 1: in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and um, we stayed in this little

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Speaker 1: area called East Village. It was literally like a block

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Speaker 1: in this loft and airbnb loft and above pizza place

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Speaker 1: and across the street from a bar. And I'll bet

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Speaker 1: you have some people to think. Yeah, these people like

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Speaker 1: took us in as family. It was like literally every day,

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Speaker 1: you know, for ten days late. We're out there two

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Speaker 1: days early, so for like two weeks they were like,

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Speaker 1: what's going on? You know, where's this baby? So I

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Speaker 1: want to thank I've just been which you would love

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Speaker 1: to do. This cocktail bar right up your alley. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like you said cocktail bar. Yeah, And not only

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Speaker 1: do they make like fresh you know, fresh ingredients, but

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Speaker 1: they don't have like a thing of cucumber sliced stuff.

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Speaker 1: They cucumber as needed and you know the jalapeno you

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Speaker 1: would have. They were doing it right there. So Jamie

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Speaker 1: and Nate and Nicole and Ian the chef at I've

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Speaker 1: just been. It was the stuff you should know. Man.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. He came out and he was like, is

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Speaker 1: it who I think it is? How fortuitous? How fortuitous?

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Speaker 1: And then uh, East Village Bohemian Pizzeria. We stayed above

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Speaker 1: this place and they were great. Did the smell drive

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Speaker 1: you nuts all the time? But we ate a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. Uh So Pat there and my boy Max,

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Speaker 1: Max and I really hit it off. We're like genuine

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Speaker 1: life pals now. Uh and he at the end I

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Speaker 1: go to leave and I just give him a letter

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Speaker 1: saying thank you and here's my contact info. And then like, ps,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I have a podcast. He's an ornithologist,

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Speaker 1: he has his master's, but he's not doing that right

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Speaker 1: now out you know, he's running this pizza point and

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Speaker 1: just a really smart guy. Was like, I think you

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Speaker 1: might like this podcast. I do. He comes up and

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Speaker 1: tells me afterwards, this is like our parting words. He

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Speaker 1: was like, dude, your chuck. It's like really I had

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Speaker 1: a weird like thing. He said, I knew that you

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Speaker 1: seem familiar, but I didn't want to say anything, like

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Speaker 1: even watched the TV show. Oh wow. So Max was like,

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Speaker 1: that's probably why I didn't want to say anything. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he didn't want to bring it up. So huge thanks

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Speaker 1: to those guys. And then um our caseworker Jessica Um

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Speaker 1: also a stuff you should know fan. That is amazing

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Speaker 1: because at the end of our first call, like a

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Speaker 1: month ago, she went, all right, we've got business done.

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Speaker 1: I have something I have to admit. It's like I'm

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Speaker 1: a huge man man. So it was weird. It was

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Speaker 1: like the stuff you should Know nation sort of caring

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Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, and all of the people like you.

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Speaker 1: You put a picture of Ruby rose up. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: like broke the internet. It was it was people love

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Speaker 1: the new Bores. Well yeah, but people love Chuck's newborn.

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Speaker 1: But you know it could have been a puppy and

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Speaker 1: probably gotten. Don't think I don't do that was very sweet. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so that meant a lot to me. But Jessica and

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Speaker 1: her two sons, Hugh and Henry, I know they are

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Speaker 1: listeners to They are awesome boys. And she really took

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Speaker 1: care of us, So I'm glad it worked out. Like man,

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Speaker 1: three weeks in Tulsa, it was a weird and stressful

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Speaker 1: and but it sounds wonderful. Yeah, good start though. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean we were in there. Emily helped deliver this baby,

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Speaker 1: and I was in the man zone right behind. I

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Speaker 1: am so proud of you guys. Yeah, I'm so happy

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Speaker 1: for you guys. I also want to say Jerry is

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Speaker 1: not allowed to talk. Jerry feels the exact same way. She's, well,

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Speaker 1: we could take the duck table today maybe, Jerry, how

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Speaker 1: do you feel? Yes, yeah, she agreed. She just spelled

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Speaker 1: out on the speaking spelled him anyway. This is not

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Speaker 1: gonna become the New Baby Show. Um, she will probably

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Speaker 1: disappear from uh your lives, but just know that we're

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Speaker 1: all doing great and thank you for the support. Good

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Speaker 1: all right, yep, nice job, Chuck, thanks man, congratulies, Thank you, sir.

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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know from House Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark.

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Speaker 1: There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry, which means it's

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Speaker 1: time for listener mail. Oh wait, wow about that. I'm

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Speaker 1: brain to start. That's why we leave that in there.

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Speaker 1: Do you want to yeah, or maybe I should just

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Speaker 1: read listener mail. We can go home. Okay, it's a

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Speaker 1: build your own episode. Yeah, it's a mad Lives, just

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Speaker 1: fill it in. I'm profiling, Yeah, styling and profiling. I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty excited. Are you styling and profile? Well this is

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Speaker 1: a great that's a different thing this yeah, okay, I

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Speaker 1: think that has to do with um, like photography. No, thanks,

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Speaker 1: styling and profile and just means you're living large. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're fashionable and oh gotcha. Yeah, no, this is different

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Speaker 1: and this is a grabst article, which is the mark

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Speaker 1: of quality as we all know it is. It's refreshing

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Speaker 1: to see and it is Um, we should just say

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Speaker 1: right off the bat, profiling is a super divisive topic.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, um, there are many ways to look at it,

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Speaker 1: and all they make sense sometimes on both sides. It's

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Speaker 1: a tough one. Yeah, so that's my cadiat. It's divisive.

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Speaker 1: So um. One thing that Grabster immediately points out is like,

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Speaker 1: not all profiling is profiling, like you think of Sure,

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk about all the different ways, right,

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Speaker 1: There's plenty of accepted forms of profiling. And the first one,

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Speaker 1: um is the standard all points bulletin or be on

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Speaker 1: the lookout, right, that's the kind that no one has

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Speaker 1: a problem with. No one does because that you you

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Speaker 1: know what that is. That's uh silver Toyota to come

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Speaker 1: on with spy today and white male in his mid

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Speaker 1: forties with spiky hair and uh sort of chubby with

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Speaker 1: a big gross gray black beard has committed a crime

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Speaker 1: and he's wearing cargo shorts and flip flops. Oh, I

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Speaker 1: see you're describing yourself profiler, but you put in their

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Speaker 1: white male. And the reason that's what I am, the

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Speaker 1: reason why people don't have a problem with this is

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Speaker 1: twofold one. A crime has already been committed. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I committed a crime. So the police work is finding

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Speaker 1: a perpetrator that has already committed a crime. And secondly,

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Speaker 1: that profile is based on eyewitness accounts descriptions of the person.

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Speaker 1: That's right, So that profile is being used to to

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Speaker 1: track down a specific person. Has nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: anybody else. Who's white, has nothing to do with anybody else,

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Speaker 1: who drives a silver Tacoma, has nothing to do with

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Speaker 1: any of that jazz. It's just this guy is suspected

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Speaker 1: of having committed this crime, and he looks like this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you hear you see it on the news every night. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you know it's not just cops that use this. The

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Speaker 1: news will say the suspect is, you know, wearing a handsome,

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Speaker 1: checkered Oxford button down, whispy hair, and white, straight teeth. Exactly,

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Speaker 1: so they're describing you. Oh you think my teeth are nice?

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Speaker 1: I didn't say that. I said they were white and straight.

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Speaker 1: That's nice if that's what you're into. This is coming

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Speaker 1: from a guy who just found out he's about to

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Speaker 1: have to lose his front tooth all over again. Start over. Yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: that sucks. Which I know there are some fans out

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Speaker 1: there that are laughing. Aaron Cooper, that toothless Chuck is

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Speaker 1: coming back in the house for It's it's really just him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's the only one whould be jerky enough to laugh

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Speaker 1: at that. That kind of misfortune, you know, I know,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry to bring that up. I'm just still reeling

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Speaker 1: from that discovery. It stinks. You think you get an

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Speaker 1: implant and it's for life, Yeah, especially when they sell

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Speaker 1: you a lifetime implant. Yea, yeah, exactly, alright. So, uh,

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Speaker 1: like you said, including descriptions and skin color is not

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Speaker 1: controversial in this case. No, it's in. Everybody from the

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Speaker 1: FEDS to the local police are okay with that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're all in on it, and and not just completely

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Speaker 1: like everybody's like, yeah, this is fine, this makes sense. Sure,

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Speaker 1: not a thing that's right. The next one is psychological profiling.

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Speaker 1: And this is when you don't have a lot of

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Speaker 1: physical evidence or you don't have an eyewitness, and you're

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Speaker 1: trying to fill in the blanks and make some good

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Speaker 1: guesses billy blanks based on I remember that guy. Uh,

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Speaker 1: some good guesses based on like the crime scene or

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Speaker 1: just the circumstances of the crime. Yes, again, a crime

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Speaker 1: has already taken place, and you're trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: who solved it, and you're taking salt who committed it.

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Speaker 1: You're trying to figure out who's gonna solve it, all right,

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Speaker 1: all right, which you figure out the same moment when

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Speaker 1: as you do when you figure out who committed it.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting in mind bending, Right twice you've jumped to

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Speaker 1: the end of something. It's so weird. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that means. I think you know what it means. Uh,

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Speaker 1: sometimes they are vague. But wait, I hadn't finished my thought. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I didn't mess it up that bad. Let me go

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Speaker 1: back and finish. Um. The point is it's drawn from

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Speaker 1: available evidence. Yeah, clues, clues that you're bringing together to

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Speaker 1: try to draw them up an idea of who did

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Speaker 1: this right exactly? Okay, So sometimes it can be vague,

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Speaker 1: but if you watch TV and movies, um, it is

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Speaker 1: probably not how it really goes down, but it's super

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Speaker 1: specific when you see it in fiction, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I think this, uh as a man who was

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Speaker 1: beating as a child and he probably lives alone or

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Speaker 1: Sherlock Holmes was really good at that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So a good point of Sherlock Holmes. Yeah, that's good stuff. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Did you know he was a morphine and cocaine addict? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I guess you need both in like the original stories? Really? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Oh like in the books. Wow, not the real guy, right,

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Speaker 1: as I think, Yeah, are you sure you're not just

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Speaker 1: thinking of Robert Downey Jr. I mean I've read the

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Speaker 1: Originals and he like does he shoots morphine in it?

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Speaker 1: And and Watson is not very happy with the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah he's straight edge. No he's not straight edge, but

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Speaker 1: he doesn't he's not a junkie, you know. But he

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Speaker 1: didn't care. He was like Watson washed my toes. I

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Speaker 1: can alright, moving on to predictive profiling. Well, yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is where it starts to get a little messy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can get a little controversial. Even psychological profiling is

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Speaker 1: a little controversial. I have to say, chuck, like, it's

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Speaker 1: not a proven, tried and true thing. It's as much

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Speaker 1: a guessing game is anything else. Um, But it's not

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Speaker 1: nearly still as controversial as predictive profiling, because now you're

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Speaker 1: trying to say, these people will probably commit a crime,

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Speaker 1: right not not not? Civil rights are it issue? Big time?

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Speaker 1: Big time? Um. Police officers do great work. Ideally they're

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Speaker 1: not just reacting to committed crimes, but they are um

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Speaker 1: driving around the neighborhood looking for a suspicious person that

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Speaker 1: might be about to commit a crime, to prevent crime,

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Speaker 1: to prevent a crime, which is stuff to do. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's right place, right time in most cases. And you

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Speaker 1: use the word ideally right ideally okay, yes, Um, So

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Speaker 1: even when this happens, this Supreme Court is roundly um

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Speaker 1: sided with police officers. UM as profiling for justification. So

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Speaker 1: it's legally speaking, Okay, it's on the books. It's on

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Speaker 1: the books. So so give an example of the kind

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Speaker 1: of profiling that's okay to be used. UM, the one

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Speaker 1: of the articles. Great. UM, let's say you're in uh,

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Speaker 1: South Florida and you're you're traveling up and you're in

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Speaker 1: a it's four a m. And you're in a rented

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Speaker 1: black suv with tinted windows, and you have the spare

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Speaker 1: tire in the back seat removed. UM, I'm sorry, it's

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Speaker 1: removed from the trunks area. It's in the backseat, just

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Speaker 1: sitting in the back seat. Might be might be a

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Speaker 1: drug trafficker, right, And the cop is basing this on

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Speaker 1: something like, um, a profile, Yeah, but a profile based

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Speaker 1: on previous experiences with other drug dealers in the same area.

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Speaker 1: Because that's a really big one right there. Like UM.

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Speaker 1: One of the things for using profiles successfully is it

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Speaker 1: has it's it has it has to be over a

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Speaker 1: certain period of time and associated with a certain place.

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Speaker 1: So you use Miami and say Miami in right, if

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Speaker 1: you saw that person and you would say, well, this

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Speaker 1: is probably a cocaine trafficker based on all the other

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Speaker 1: dealings with cocaine traffickers who who used the same transportation

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Speaker 1: m O. Yeah, and we should point out the tires

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Speaker 1: removed because you can then hide the drugs where the

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Speaker 1: spare tire went, and then that's why the tires in

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Speaker 1: the back seat. Yes, so these are red flags. But

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Speaker 1: if you're like in um Wyoming in two thousand fifteen

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Speaker 1: and you read an article about how that held true

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Speaker 1: in Miami, that is not necessarily a justifiable transference of

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Speaker 1: profiling because it exists in a different time, in a

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Speaker 1: different place. That's so, like you said, this can be

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Speaker 1: a this can be high level policy, UM, it can

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Speaker 1: be unofficial policy. It can be just merely experienced as

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Speaker 1: a police officer. That's something you've can countered from time

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Speaker 1: to time and basically to determine if this profile justifies

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Speaker 1: a search warrantless search, that is, in other words, you

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Speaker 1: haven't gone to the judge and as applied for a

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Speaker 1: warrant and had them review it and all that stuff

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Speaker 1: or rubber stamp it, which we'll get to. UM, it's

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Speaker 1: got a stand up in court, right, and so you

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Speaker 1: gotta be careful as a cop. You do. Um, you

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Speaker 1: have to have what's called an articulable suspicion, which was

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Speaker 1: established by a nineteen case or Supreme Court ruling Terry

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Speaker 1: versus Ohio. And the Supreme Court said, and this is

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Speaker 1: actually from a Matt ti ab Um article. It's really

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Speaker 1: really worth reading. It's called Why Baltimore Blew Up. It

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Speaker 1: was in Rolling Stone like a month or two ago.

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Speaker 1: It's a very good article. Um. But he talks about

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Speaker 1: this Terry case led to what it called Terry stops.

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Speaker 1: Whereas if a cop has a suspicion that they can

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Speaker 1: put into words, meaning it's not just a hunch, right, um,

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Speaker 1: that somebody is is either just committed a crime or

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Speaker 1: going to commit a crime, that that is probable cause

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Speaker 1: and it's bounds for as search. Yeah, and here's a

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Speaker 1: had a great example here, like let's say the cop

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Speaker 1: and court would say this the suspect of pure nervous

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Speaker 1: made several contradictory statements. In the back seat, I saw

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Speaker 1: a shoebox full of old film canisters, which drug carriers

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Speaker 1: commonly use. The car smelled like air freshener spray, which

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Speaker 1: is used to cover up the smell of drugs, and

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Speaker 1: I spotted them driving slowly up and down a block

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Speaker 1: that I know is frequented by drug dealers. That's called

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Speaker 1: good police work in court. Right, that's called like a

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Speaker 1: prosecutor's dream cop. Yeah. Um, and if you if you

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Speaker 1: go back and you notice all of that stuff, all

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Speaker 1: of these things are based on. So a block that

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Speaker 1: he knows to be frequented by drug dealers, thirty five

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Speaker 1: millimeter canisters. Maybe he read a Police Benevolent Association newsletter

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Speaker 1: article about that. Um, all of this stuff together, um

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Speaker 1: becomes what's called cumulative similarities. And supposedly a Florida Highway

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Speaker 1: patrolman named Bob Vogel is the first guy to put

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Speaker 1: this down on paper. He was very controversial, which is,

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Speaker 1: you take all of these different things and put them together,

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Speaker 1: and you can form a profile, and you can use

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Speaker 1: that to pull somebody over and then you know, eventually

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Speaker 1: search their car if you're a Florida Highway patrolman. Right, So, um,

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Speaker 1: you've got you've got all of these. Uh. You have

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Speaker 1: the terry stops, which are used for broken windows policing

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Speaker 1: and just for pulling people over, but they require an

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Speaker 1: articulable suspicion. But they can be based on where called

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Speaker 1: cumulative similarities, which is a profile either like that your

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Speaker 1: police department is saying be on the lookout for people

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Speaker 1: driving with their spare tire in the backseat, um at

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Speaker 1: this time of night. So far, this has all been

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Speaker 1: upheld by the Supreme Court. That's right. But there's a

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Speaker 1: very very fine line um that is frequently crossed, and

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Speaker 1: we will talk about how that runs a foul of

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Speaker 1: the Constitution right after this. All right, Josh, before we

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Speaker 1: took a break, you mentioned something called the Constitution, and

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Speaker 1: there are a couple of amendments that come into play

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Speaker 1: when you're talking about search and seizure, probable cause, profile ancure,

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Speaker 1: and they are the fourth and fourteenth Amendments. The fourth

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Speaker 1: reads and whole the right of the people to be

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Speaker 1: secure in their persons. The JFK I went into him

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Speaker 1: Winston Churchill. Sure, it's both houses papers and effects against

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Speaker 1: unreasonable searches and seizures shall not be violated, and no

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Speaker 1: warrant shall issue, but upon probable costs, supported by oath

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Speaker 1: of affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched

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Speaker 1: and the persons of things to be seized. So there's

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Speaker 1: some big words in there. That's right, big, big like

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Speaker 1: money words like Uh, it's protection against unreasonable searches and seizures,

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Speaker 1: which means, as far as the Supreme Court's concerned, some

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Speaker 1: cops just can't say I'm gonna push you up against

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Speaker 1: the wall and pat you down for no reason whatsoever. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Or I'm gonna pull you over for no reason, and

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna search your car on the side of the

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Speaker 1: road for no reason. Um, does not happen, right of course?

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Speaker 1: Not sure? So, Um, that's the Fourth Amendment, right, And uh,

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Speaker 1: there's another big term in there. It's called probable cause,

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Speaker 1: like you have to have And if a lot of

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Speaker 1: people say that that versus Ohio ruling is just too

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Speaker 1: broad in articulable suspicion, like what is that you know? Um?

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Speaker 1: But even still there's there's so there has to be

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Speaker 1: some sort of probable cause. And a lot of the times,

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Speaker 1: as we'll see, it's just from uh, some something out

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Speaker 1: in plain side or something like that. But there's a

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00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: big struggle over what constitutes probable cause. But the point

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Speaker 1: is the Fourth Amendment says you have to have probable

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Speaker 1: cause or else it's an unreasonable search. That's right. And uh,

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Speaker 1: a police officer in most cases has to go get

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Speaker 1: a warrant for like the search of a home or something. Um,

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Speaker 1: And there's a whole issue of rubber stamping warrants these

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Speaker 1: days of course that like the judge may not even

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Speaker 1: really review that. It's just a formality. Or for anybody

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Speaker 1: who's watched enough Law and Order episodes, all you have

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Speaker 1: to do is go, I smell pot. Do you smell pot?

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Speaker 1: Wink wink, and then kick the door in. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: because that's you can't prove that the cop didn't think

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Speaker 1: you smell pot exactly. You know, was the threat of perjury,

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Speaker 1: of perjuring himself on the stand. But I imagine at

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Speaker 1: least as far as like Briscoe and Green are concerned,

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Speaker 1: they're hoping that they're gonna find such gang buster overwhelming

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Speaker 1: evidence that everybody's gonna forget about the fake smell of pot. Um. So,

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Speaker 1: there was actually a case which relates to probable calls

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Speaker 1: called the US v. Sokolow that made it all the

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Speaker 1: way to the Scotus And um, did you read about

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00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,679
Speaker 1: that case? I did? It's um it was well that

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Speaker 1: was when the ruling was right. Yeah, so what happened

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00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,440
Speaker 1: was the d A arrested a guy at the Honolulu

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Speaker 1: airport found over a thousand grams of cocaine and his

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Speaker 1: carry on. It was a key, he had a kilo

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Speaker 1: and he paid uh. They the agents knew all this

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Speaker 1: going into it. This is why they arrested him. He

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Speaker 1: paid bucks for round trip tickets with a roll of

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Speaker 1: twenty dollar bills. He traveled under a name that did

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Speaker 1: not match the name under which is telephone was listed. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was originally going to Miami, and in this because

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Speaker 1: lad flag at the time, he only stayed Miami for

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Speaker 1: two days, even though a round trip flight from Honolulu

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Speaker 1: takes twenty hours, so a very quick trip, and the

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Speaker 1: others he was almost flying as long as he was there.

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Speaker 1: In Miami, he met up with a man named Tony Montana.

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Speaker 1: Apparently he appeared nervous and he did not check his baggage,

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Speaker 1: and the district court denied motion to suppress the evidence,

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00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,520
Speaker 1: said it was justifiable. The Court of Appeals disagreed and

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Speaker 1: overturned that, and then eventually it went to the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court and they said no, it's okay because they had

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Speaker 1: what was quote a totality of evidence. So Here's the

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Speaker 1: thing though, the thing that makes that so groundbreaking and nowadays,

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Speaker 1: I mean we were raised under so clow right, it

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Speaker 1: seems like this is just the norm. But it was

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Speaker 1: a ground break in case of the time, because nothing

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00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:00,840
Speaker 1: none of that. It's not against the law to pay

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00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: your plane ticket with cash, It's not against the law

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00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 1: to not check your bags at the time. It wasn't

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00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,280
Speaker 1: against the law to travel under an assumed name. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I don't think at the time it was against

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00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,240
Speaker 1: a law to go to Miami just for two days, right, exactly,

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Speaker 1: None of this is against the law. And so if

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Speaker 1: you if if you just followed the strict interpretation a

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00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 1: law up to that point there was they couldn't bust

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Speaker 1: this guy, even though when they busted him they found

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Speaker 1: a kilo of coke, like they knew they would in

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00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,719
Speaker 1: his bag. Um, there wasn't enough there. In the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court said, you know what, we we think that when

398
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,200
Speaker 1: you put all that stuff together, there is enough there.

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00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: Now what constitutes that totality? Is it two pieces of evidence?

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00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: Is that one thing? Um? You know, how much does

401
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: it take to profile? But what they were saying in

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00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: so Colo was, yes, the the stuff that you've seen

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00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: from other proven criminals applied to somebody else who you

404
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: don't yet fully know as a criminal, is enough for

405
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 1: you to bust them and see if you're right. Yeah. Again,

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00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 1: it's not like the groundbreaking He didn't go straight to jail.

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00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: They looked in his bag, yes, but it's do you

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00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: have the right to look in the bag? That is

409
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: what it comes down to. Yeah, and they were saying

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00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: that there. The Supreme Court interpretation is this stands up

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00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 1: to the Fourth Amendment. Yeah, and I met the guy

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00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: went to Miami for two days, gets your civil rights goodbye?

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00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,639
Speaker 1: Uh So with the fourteenth Amendment UM it states in

414
00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: part that no State shall make or enforce any law

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00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 1: which will abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of

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00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: the U. S H. I think everybody wants the Kennedy

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00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 1: voice against U. I think any time you read amendments

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00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 1: from the Bill of Rights, you have to do it

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00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 1: like that. Nah shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty,

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00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: or property without due process of law, nor deny to

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00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,679
Speaker 1: any person within its jurisdiction equal protection of the laws.

422
00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: So this one applies. You might say, well, we've got

423
00:24:54,680 --> 00:24:58,440
Speaker 1: the fourth we don't need. The fourteenth fourteen says, look, man,

424
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:03,200
Speaker 1: you can't just bust somebody without this, again, due process

425
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,880
Speaker 1: of law. And we have a due process of law.

426
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: And what the Supreme Court did with cases like Soklo

427
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,560
Speaker 1: and with cases like Terry versus Ohio, UM, is they

428
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:17,160
Speaker 1: said profiling is part of the due process of law.

429
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: That's right. So one thing that they have gone back

430
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: to again and again and again and again is that

431
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: if race is factored in and almost any circumstances, there

432
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: are circumstances that is where racial profiling is allowed in

433
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: police work. But for the most part, if you're basing

434
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: your suspicions of criminal wrongdoing on race largely or in part,

435
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,520
Speaker 1: then that is not That runs a foul of the

436
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: fourth and the fourteenth amendments, and you're not allowed to

437
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:52,880
Speaker 1: do that. Yeah. The grabs Her points out that cops,

438
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 1: unless you are have an a p b out on

439
00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:00,119
Speaker 1: a Hispanic mail or a black male, then you are

440
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: supposed to be color blind as a cop. Exactly you're

441
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 1: supposed to be. So you know, um, the Eric Garner

442
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: case to Michael Brown case, um, all of these cases

443
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 1: where you know black mails were basically stopped from either

444
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: doing a petty offense or just stop based on suspicion

445
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,200
Speaker 1: because they were black in their neighborhood. UM. It prompted

446
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: the executive branch to release a new set of guidance,

447
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 1: like an updated set of guidelines for racial profiling, and

448
00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: they were they basically spelled out examples. UM I posted

449
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,919
Speaker 1: to it on the podcast page for this episode, but

450
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: they spelled out examples for when that when it's appropriate,

451
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,879
Speaker 1: and they said if it's an all points bulletin for

452
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 1: any police yes, um, if you're traffic or if you're

453
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: patrolling and looking for criminals and you're basing it on race,

454
00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: absolutely not allowed. But they said they gave an example

455
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: where like, um, if for example, you are looking for

456
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: somebody who carried out a hit on a gang leader,

457
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 1: and you know there's this rival gang and this rival

458
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,840
Speaker 1: gang is probably the ones who carried out this hit,

459
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: and every member of this rival gang is Hispanic, that

460
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: you could use that as part of the profile and

461
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 1: searching for your suspect. It just makes sense in that case, right,

462
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,160
Speaker 1: because I don't look for the little old white lady

463
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: right exactly because it's that specific. But you wouldn't cast

464
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: a dragnet over all Hispanics. It would be Hispanic men

465
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: related to this gang. You see what I'm saying. I

466
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:41,880
Speaker 1: think the lesson here is get the little old white

467
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 1: lady to do the hit. It's been done before, and

468
00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:48,880
Speaker 1: you're golden. It has been done before, which is one

469
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: of the one of the problems with racial profiling is

470
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: it's distracting. Yeah, you know, we'll get to that. But

471
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,280
Speaker 1: that's definitely true. Um. And you know when you watch cops,

472
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: it's not always like it's sometimes that I will see

473
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: on the TV show they will pull over. They'll stop

474
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 1: a white kid, like suburban white kid that's in a

475
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: bad neighborhood, because they'll be like, well, he's he didn't

476
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: belong here. He's probably buying drugs because this is a

477
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: street where people buy drugs. There's a crackhouse down there.

478
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,120
Speaker 1: And this guy is from the county. Uh, you know,

479
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:23,960
Speaker 1: the white suburban county out in the suburbs. Let's pull

480
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,320
Speaker 1: him over. That's racial profile. That's the same same thing

481
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: but different. Well it's the same thing, yeah, but you

482
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: know what I mean. Um, all right, so let's talk

483
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:37,200
Speaker 1: about probable cause analysis. This is good. There's, um, during

484
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,959
Speaker 1: a traffic stop, there's there's several things a cop can do,

485
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 1: and each one requires different kinds of cause in order

486
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: for it to be legal. Um. Yeah. Again, they aren't

487
00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: supposed to just pull you over for no reason. They're

488
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,360
Speaker 1: not supposed to. You're supposed to fit some sort of

489
00:28:56,920 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 1: either you broke a traffic law or you fit a

490
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:04,840
Speaker 1: profile that that has been agreed upon. Is okay. Yeah,

491
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: But a cop can pull over for and again we're

492
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: not knocking police officers hard work, and mostly they do

493
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: great work. But a cop can pull someone over for

494
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 1: anything and say, like when you made that turn, you

495
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: swung a little too wide, or you hit that yellow line,

496
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: and um, so I'm suspicious that you're drunk, like you know.

497
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: Like that, you can almost invent a reason to pull

498
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 1: someone over and under any circumstances. So let's just start

499
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 1: with that. When you pull over a car, UM, Supposedly,

500
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: to pull someone over legally, you need to have witnessed

501
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: a violation. UM. Or you can run the plates and

502
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: see if their cars stolen or if there's a warrant

503
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: out for the owner. That's a big thing you see

504
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 1: on cops all the time. Um. And the cop can

505
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,960
Speaker 1: make a stop as long as they can describe specific

506
00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,760
Speaker 1: factors that fit the profile. Right car, car full of

507
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: black kids. Not okay to just pull that car over,

508
00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: not for that reason. But if they say, like I

509
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 1: saw um smoke coming out the windows. Um, they were

510
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 1: driving erratically and it smelled like pot smoke from the road,

511
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: then that is a reason number two when you go

512
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: to a question the suspect. That's moving things up a notch. Uh.

513
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: You don't have to get a ticket when you get

514
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: pulled over. You might just get questioned if you seem suspicious. Um,

515
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 1: and they can you know, they'll shine that light in

516
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: the car and they'll look at everything that they can

517
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 1: see without actually searching the car. Yeah, and that well

518
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: within their right what's called plane view exactly. So if

519
00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: you have like a bag of pots sitting out on

520
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: the front seat with you and the cops sees it,

521
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: that just opened your entire car and your person up

522
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: to a search. Yes, and you that means you are

523
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:54,560
Speaker 1: super high because now now there's probable cause. But if

524
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 1: you have long hair and you have an open half

525
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,360
Speaker 1: gallon of ice cream next to you, still not enough

526
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: my racist suspicions, But that still should not be enough

527
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 1: to give him probable cause to search your car. Well,

528
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:10,040
Speaker 1: I got profiled in Texas. Me and my best friend

529
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 1: Brett many years ago after college did a big out

530
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: west trip for two months, and the cops said he

531
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: didn't put He said he pulled us over because I

532
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,480
Speaker 1: didn't have my seat belt on. Um. Why he really

533
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 1: pulled us over us because we were too scruffy looking

534
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: guys with tattoos and beards in a Volkswagen van. Um.

535
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: And he searched the van. He asked if he could,

536
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 1: and we said he could, and he searched the van

537
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: for like an hour on the side of the road.

538
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: Long story short, chucked in five years, five hard ones. No,

539
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: we didn't get taught with anything, and we got away,

540
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: and he basically was mad at us that he wasted

541
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,160
Speaker 1: his time and the last thing he said was to

542
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 1: get out of Texas. So and I said, I'm trying

543
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,959
Speaker 1: to sir. But the point is that that cop asked

544
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: you if he could search your car, right he did,

545
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: and that if you give consent then you are waving

546
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: your Fourth Amendment rights. But you don't have to give consent.

547
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,840
Speaker 1: Not many people know this, and there's some states that

548
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: make the cop tell you you are allowed to refuse

549
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: the search of your car, um, but not all states do.

550
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,600
Speaker 1: I've never heard it either, um. Instead, the cop just says,

551
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: can I search your car in the most intimidating voice possible,

552
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: and most people will just fold like a house of cards, um,

553
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:27,560
Speaker 1: because they're scared of the cop or whatever. Even if

554
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: they do have something in there, they're not gonna be like, Nope,

555
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 1: you're not allowed to search the car. So the point

556
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 1: where the cop asks if he can search the car

557
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 1: is usually in the absence of something that nothing in

558
00:32:40,000 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: plain sight, but also that cops suspicious suspicions are raised,

559
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: but he just can't quite prove it. So I'll ask

560
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 1: you if you can search your car. If you say no,

561
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: the cop can say, well, I'm I'm going to detain

562
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: you temporarily. Right Basically, I can go, I will wait

563
00:32:58,960 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: it out, I can get a war it I'm gonna

564
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: search that car, right, Okay. If he wants to get

565
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,160
Speaker 1: a warrant, that's different. Like what he's doing now is

566
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,600
Speaker 1: trying to do everything he can to search your car

567
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: without having to go to the trouble of getting a

568
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:14,880
Speaker 1: warrant without probable cause, like seeing a bag of pot

569
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: in the front seat. Right time was that they could

570
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: detain you for up to like ninety minutes while they

571
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: called the canine unit out. And the canine unit has

572
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: been shown to if it the canine unit sniffs around

573
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: your car, that's not an unreasonable search. And if the

574
00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 1: canine smells something or indicates that there are drugs present,

575
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: then that does provide probable cause for a full search

576
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 1: under the Fourth Amendment. Right they change that, yeah, Um.

577
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 1: In April this past April, the Supreme Court had decision

578
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: that said, now you really can't make people wait around

579
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: while the drug dog comes out. They're like, we're not

580
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: a post to that, but the point of a traffic

581
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,520
Speaker 1: stop is to promote and encourage traffic safety, not to

582
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 1: cast a drug drag. That for drug couriers. Um, and

583
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 1: you you cannot detain people without a reasonable suspicion to

584
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: wait for the drug dog to come out. If they

585
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: tell you can't, they you're not allowed to search their car.

586
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: That's good. I wonder if it had anything to do

587
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: with um. If you look up online, there are ways

588
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,399
Speaker 1: that cops can make a drug dog signal basically by

589
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:27,440
Speaker 1: how they're handling the dog. And there's a lot of suspicion,

590
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,399
Speaker 1: and they'll play him side by side, like you see

591
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: this cops doing it, right, And if you see this cop,

592
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:34,280
Speaker 1: watch this little thing he does. Then the dog barks.

593
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:38,319
Speaker 1: And basically there was a lot of speculation that bad

594
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,120
Speaker 1: cops would use the dog tail. Well not that, but yeah,

595
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 1: essentially making the dog signal a false alert just to

596
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:47,239
Speaker 1: give them reason. Well, the dog barked, So now I

597
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: can I can search your car or and maybe it

598
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: all started because I meant to bring this up a

599
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,279
Speaker 1: second ago. Suspicion can be now they seem nervous, right like,

600
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: everyone's nervous when a cop pulls him a sure, even

601
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:03,680
Speaker 1: if you haven't done anything. It's just nerve wracking. It's

602
00:35:03,680 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 1: like white coat blood pressure. I like a lot of

603
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: people's blood pressure is high at the doctor because they're

604
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: nervous about, you know, being at the doctor. There's someone

605
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,000
Speaker 1: standing at my window with a gun, right Like, it's

606
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: nerve wracking. Yeah. So the Supreme Court said, no, you guys,

607
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,800
Speaker 1: you have to have a reasonable suspicion to detain somebody

608
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 1: on the side of the road that they've committed another crime.

609
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,960
Speaker 1: It can't just be I'm pulling you over. You have

610
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: to wait for ninety minutes while the drug dog comes

611
00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 1: out so I can bust you or try to bust

612
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: you or whatever. That was. That was a big deal

613
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,120
Speaker 1: that they came up with that. Yeah, we didn't in Texas.

614
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 1: We didn't have the drug dog come out, but we

615
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,560
Speaker 1: were I felt like we were on the side of

616
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: the road for an hour while he dug through that

617
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: entire van. Um just you could tell he was he

618
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 1: really wanted to find something. Yeah, all right, let's open

619
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,280
Speaker 1: the cannib worms, my friend. Racial profiling, it's a big,

620
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: big deal in this country. It's a problem, and and

621
00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:04,759
Speaker 1: um let's talk about it. Okay, that's good. Uh. So

622
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 1: that is basically it's a form of predicted profiling, uh

623
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: where one of, if not the only factor, is skin color.

624
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:17,920
Speaker 1: Right that like, um oh, let's say that, um, Mexican

625
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: people are way more um prone to sell meth. So

626
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,920
Speaker 1: let's go hang out at that Hispanic neighborhood. Right, But

627
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:31,359
Speaker 1: there's a couple of things wrong with that, um, and

628
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: that is racial profiling. Some people actually defend it, saying, well,

629
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,680
Speaker 1: if you look at prison statistics, Hispanics are far more

630
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: likely to be imprisoned for drug crimes than say, white people,

631
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: So that makes sense, right, right, Okay, the other saying

632
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: right right, I'm playing along here. The other side of

633
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: the coin is that you can use those same statistics

634
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 1: to point to the idea that Hispanics and blacks are

635
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: disproportionately targeted for drug busts than other people, right, and

636
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: so the same This is an Ed points out. This

637
00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: is one of the problems with this debate is both

638
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: sides used the same statistics differently to prove their point. Yeah.

639
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,760
Speaker 1: Another thing he points out is that people that say

640
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:27,360
Speaker 1: some people will say that it is institutionalized racism and

641
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:31,600
Speaker 1: its harassment of minority straight up. People who defend against

642
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:35,359
Speaker 1: it say, cops harassed criminals, and if those criminals happen

643
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: to be minorities t s. That's not our fault. And

644
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: I think that's just the reality of the world we

645
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,400
Speaker 1: live in. Even further, there's people who say, yes, racial

646
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 1: profiling is the thing, and it's an effective tool of

647
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Sorry, welcome to reality. Um. Those people usually

648
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: have their arguments demolished pretty quickly, including by professionals. I

649
00:37:56,920 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: read this um, this interview, or well an article about

650
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: the former chief chief of police of Palo Alto around

651
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 1: San Francisco area, and um, he also grew up as

652
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: an Oakland cop, and he was talking about that kind

653
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 1: of racial profiling that you were where they would just

654
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 1: sit out and like, um, high crime neighborhoods and pull

655
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,399
Speaker 1: over anybody white. And they were doing like that for

656
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 1: the same reasons, and he was saying it almost never worked.

657
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: He said that, um, they also would have like long

658
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: dragnets on stretches of highway and they would target Hispanic

659
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,080
Speaker 1: people in like low riders, and he said, almost never worked.

660
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: And he said that it's ineffective. Right, it's also lazy policing,

661
00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:43,640
Speaker 1: because he said the better alternative is to forget who

662
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: who's what color, but just watch for somebody leaning in

663
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: a car that's just pulled over under the curb, or

664
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 1: somebody making furtive moment movements. Right, look for behavior that

665
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,439
Speaker 1: is actually linked to crime. Not there's a white person

666
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,160
Speaker 1: in a black high crime neighborhood, so therefore their there,

667
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: um they're buying drugs, or even even worse than that,

668
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: there's a black person who lives in a high crime neighborhood,

669
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: they must be a drug dealer. Let me go stop

670
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 1: and frisk them, um that that is just lazy policing.

671
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,720
Speaker 1: It's it's shorthand policing. Whereas if you look for actual

672
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,600
Speaker 1: criminal behaviors you're going to have, you're gonna be far

673
00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: more successful in busting the bad guys. But even worse

674
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: than it being like lazy policing and ineffective in a

675
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,960
Speaker 1: lot of ways. This guy pointed out like, and I've

676
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: seen this in many different places. If you want to

677
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:41,040
Speaker 1: encourage mistrust and animosity toward the police, scoop up every

678
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 1: member in the community and take him to jail just

679
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: on the off chance that you might find something that sticks.

680
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:49,919
Speaker 1: If you want to set a town off or any

681
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: population off, do that for a few years and see

682
00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:55,719
Speaker 1: what happens. And that's what we've been seeing time and

683
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 1: time again. It's systematic. Yes, it's systematic targeting and then

684
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: a systematic reactions. Uh. And I've mentioned cops a lot.

685
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: If you're out there saying, well, yeah, but on cops

686
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 1: every time they pull over that's a shady black guy

687
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood he has something on him and gets arrested.

688
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,040
Speaker 1: Or that white kid in the bad neighborhood he's there

689
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:18,359
Speaker 1: to buy drugs, it's a TV show that's edited. Right.

690
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 1: They don't show you the twenty five stops where there

691
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: is no crime because it would not be a fun

692
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: TV show exactly, all right. So I think people use

693
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: that as like dummies use that as proof sometimes, like

694
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 1: watch Cops Man every single time, right, Like yeah, exactly right,

695
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:38,279
Speaker 1: Like all all matthe Users are scrawny and white. So

696
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 1: if you see a scrawny white guy, Matthewuser, that's right.

697
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 1: Or marathon runner, right, you know. Uh So obviously there

698
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,720
Speaker 1: can be uh rogue cops, racist cops that are doing

699
00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,799
Speaker 1: their thing on a on a singular level or with

700
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: their partner. But it becomes a real real problem. That's

701
00:40:57,920 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: a problem. It becomes a super real problem when it

702
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:03,759
Speaker 1: is part of the system. Uh. In which was the

703
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 1: case with the New Jersey State Troopers in the late nineties,

704
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,439
Speaker 1: they did a ten year study and found out that

705
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 1: eighty percent of all traffic stops were minorities over a

706
00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: ten year period, and they found that there was a

707
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 1: quote macho elitist culture within the state trooper ranks end

708
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: quote and um. Basically, even though they officially said racial

709
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: profiling isn't right, there was a system in place where

710
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 1: veterans would really coach and teach the younger cops, like

711
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: this is how we're doing it, and they were basically outed. Um.

712
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: The authorities assigned federal monitors to those troopers, and evidently

713
00:41:45,719 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 1: by two thousand six they had um a report suggested

714
00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,239
Speaker 1: they had eliminated that profiling completely. Yeah, which is good

715
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: if that's the case. You know, and I'm sure it is.

716
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,720
Speaker 1: New Jersey state troopers are intimidating. You ever seen those guys.

717
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 1: They're the ones that look like the military uniforms, which

718
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: is a whole other issue altogether. Well, I mean not

719
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: like M sixty, like like the dress, blues, boots and

720
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: all that. Um. It turns out twenty two states have

721
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,840
Speaker 1: lawns that band racial profiling of motorists, which is great

722
00:42:18,960 --> 00:42:22,440
Speaker 1: until you think that that also means that states don't.

723
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: It's kind of weird if you ask me. Um and uh.

724
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 1: I found a study also from Illinois that found that

725
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:35,240
Speaker 1: in Illinois, black and Hispanic drivers were two times likelier

726
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 1: to be stopped and searched, but white drivers were two

727
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 1: times likelier to have contraband on them. Weird, not only weird,

728
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:50,920
Speaker 1: it's it's startling. How like it's it's not effective like there,

729
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: it's not leading to stopping crime, yeah, which is sort

730
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,719
Speaker 1: of the point. Well. And then another very controversial a

731
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,239
Speaker 1: bout of racial prof aisling that this country went through

732
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:05,799
Speaker 1: came after September eleven, of course, and in the aftermath

733
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: of that, you would remember every every month or two

734
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 1: you'd hear about someone who sometimes seeks who aren't even Arab,

735
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,000
Speaker 1: would get kicked off of like a plane or something

736
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: like that because they made the pilot nervous just being there. Yeah,

737
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: or T s A would would like pat down. Um.

738
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: Just proportionately more Arab people than white people. Um. And

739
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: now supposedly they based it on your behavior rather than

740
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 1: your race, so they're not rachel profiling any longer, supposedly,

741
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 1: and it is. I have to say, I haven't heard

742
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,120
Speaker 1: of one of those cases in a while, but it

743
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:42,279
Speaker 1: seemed like for a while we're hearing about it all

744
00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,959
Speaker 1: the time. Yeah, I think there was a heightened sense

745
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,080
Speaker 1: of everything back then. Of course, right after. But so

746
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: this guy who used to manage the Ben Gurion Airport

747
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,600
Speaker 1: in Um Israel, Rafael Ron, he pointed out that that

748
00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 1: was the exact opposite of what you want to do yeah,

749
00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: he said, the worst tech in the history of this

750
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: airport was carried out by Japanese in the early seventies.

751
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 1: And he said, if we're focusing on an ethnic group,

752
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 1: then we're we're potentially missing someone that's about to do

753
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,040
Speaker 1: something bad, right, which is exactly what happened in nine

754
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: two at that airport. Three members of the Japanese Red

755
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,480
Speaker 1: Army walked in with machine guns and violin cases and

756
00:44:19,560 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: just opened them up and started opening fire on the

757
00:44:22,719 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: crowd and killed I think, um twenty six people. And

758
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: they were hired by the PLO. Pl O knew that

759
00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: they could never walk into the the Israeli airport, but

760
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: the Japanese people would unnoticed. And so this guy is

761
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: saying the same thing like if you're really on the

762
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:42,520
Speaker 1: lookout for your enemy, like again, watch for behavior, like

763
00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 1: do actual police work. Don't just use this lazy shorthand stuff,

764
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 1: because it's gonna it's going to take off this entire

765
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: population and it's gonna cause in you to miss the

766
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 1: real crime. Well, yeah, you've got like it sounds like

767
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: a movie. Them the cops are at the airport and

768
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: they detained this, uh, this air of guy who's like

769
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: late for a business meeting. And then in the in

770
00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:08,480
Speaker 1: the same shot, the white dude who was a Timothy McVey,

771
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: just walks right behind them with the with the bomb

772
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: on his body. You realize you just described the subplot

773
00:45:13,960 --> 00:45:20,520
Speaker 1: to Airplane Too, did Yeah, remember Sonny Bono had the bomb.

774
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: It's a little mild mannered, weasily dude. Yeah, that's right.

775
00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:26,000
Speaker 1: And I think he walks through while they're jacking up

776
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:32,160
Speaker 1: some like I think plo dudes. Maybe that was subconscious. Wow,

777
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:35,759
Speaker 1: so that's a profiling tip of the iceberg. I would

778
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,080
Speaker 1: call that. Oh, sure, there's we could do a series

779
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: of shows on this, I'm sure. Uh. And if you

780
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: want to know more about profiling in the meantime, uh,

781
00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: type that word into the search bar of your favorite

782
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: search engine and I'm sure we'll bring up all manner

783
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 1: of terrible stuff. You can also type in the search

784
00:45:54,960 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: bart how stuff works dot com and it will bring

785
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 1: up this article by the Crabs or And since I

786
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,839
Speaker 1: said grabs or time for a listener mail, I'm gonna

787
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 1: call this wee f us, which is short for water

788
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: enema from a water slide or from a slide. And

789
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: this is from Tiffany last name withheld, She says. Uh.

790
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: As a kid, I remember being a chubby eleven year

791
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,640
Speaker 1: old girl excited for her first trip to Disney World

792
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: in the water park then known as Typhoon Lagoon, had

793
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 1: a brand new neon green with black polka up bathing suit.

794
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:30,319
Speaker 1: It was all excited and UH to go down the Cowabunga,

795
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,240
Speaker 1: a two fourteen foot tall water slide on a steep

796
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,920
Speaker 1: sixty degree angle. They tell you to keep your ankles crossed.

797
00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: But as a little chubby eleven year old girl, my

798
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: brain comprehended, but my little legs did not have the

799
00:46:41,560 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 1: strength for all two d and fourteen feet. Thank you

800
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,640
Speaker 1: see where this is headed. After plumbing the bottom, immediately

801
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:50,399
Speaker 1: knew something was not right. I clenched my thighs as

802
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,840
Speaker 1: tightly as I could, pulling out the massive water slide wedgie.

803
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 1: Not two steps from exiting the slide, though, a different

804
00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 1: type of waterfall began to trick al down my legs.

805
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:04,040
Speaker 1: No matter how tightly I clinched, I couldn't stop it.

806
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 1: I waddled up to a gorgeous Australian teenager employee and explain,

807
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 1: I need a restroom right away. Uh, with a smug smile.

808
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: He pointed all the way to the other side of

809
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: the lagoon, which was a long walk. Just as I

810
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,080
Speaker 1: entered the bathroom with all the force of the water

811
00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:22,800
Speaker 1: that had entered my body, it exited, and I single

812
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,000
Speaker 1: handedly shut down a small portion of Disney that day.

813
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 1: As embarrassing as this was, I was more upset than

814
00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: my new bathing suit was ruined. My parents were furious

815
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: because they had to show out fifty dollars for a

816
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: new one Toronto. I hope I didn't gross you out

817
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,399
Speaker 1: too bad. I think of it as a cautionary lesson

818
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,920
Speaker 1: for your listeners. Thanks for all your hard work. Um,

819
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 1: I hope to see you guys sometime in Detroit. And

820
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:50,800
Speaker 1: hey October, Tiffany last name with eld. We're just gonna

821
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:56,040
Speaker 1: call you Tiffany poopy pants. We're coming to Detroit in October, yes,

822
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 1: ostensibly ostensibly, and also we want to stay Detroit in

823
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: advance of us coming. We're sorry for all the jokes

824
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 1: we made about you. It'll all come home to roost.

825
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: See you in October. If you want to tell us

826
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: a gross story that happened when you were a kid, like, yeah,

827
00:48:11,960 --> 00:48:14,360
Speaker 1: don't just tell us something else and tweet to us

828
00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: at s y s K podcast, join us on Facebook

829
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: dot com, slash stuff you Should Know, send us an

830
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff Works dot com,

831
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: and join us out at home on the web Stuff

832
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 1: you Should Know dot com. For more on this and

833
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, is that how stuff Works dot com.