WEBVTT - Ali Soufan on the most important lessons to learn from 9/11 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:06.840 I'm very pleased this afternoon to be joined on the 0:00:06.880 --> 0:00:12.000 Warning podcast by somebody that I regard as an American hero, 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:18.160 the former FBI agent Ali Soufon, the chair and CEO 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.239 of the Soufon Group, and he is generous enough to 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:25.200 join us from Doha Cutter where he has just landed 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:26.239 and is a little. 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:27.000 Bit jet lagged. 0:00:27.040 --> 0:00:32.040 But nevertheless, good afternoon, or good morning or good evening, Ali, 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.279 whatever time it is in Doha. 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.519 Good evening, Steve. It's a great honor to be with you. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:39.720 To thank you very much. 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:47.040 There may be many people who don't know about your career, 0:00:48.000 --> 0:00:54.760 and I want to let you unfold it in your words. 0:00:55.400 --> 0:01:02.040 I imagine when the calendar turns to September, it brings 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:09.640 you back to twenty two years ago, this month, the 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:13.280 clock was ticking. Why don't you tell us where you 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:18.080 were twenty two years ago, what you were doing, and 0:01:18.120 --> 0:01:25.160 what you had spent your previous years obsessed about, focused 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.760 on and trying to stop. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:32.520 Twenty two years ago, September eleven, two thousand and one, 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:37.880 I was in Yemen, and the reason I was in 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:42.560 Yemen I was leading the FBI team investigating the USS call. 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:47.760 Somebody like me I never thought in a million years 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:51.680 I would be an FBI agent. I guess only in America. 0:01:52.920 --> 0:02:01.240 I came from van On, which was really suffering, you know, 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.800 during the Civil War, and I went to school in 0:02:04.800 --> 0:02:12.160 the US. I graduated undergrad from a school in Pennsylvania 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:16.560 and Mansfield University. It's in rural Pennsylvania, and then I 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:21.079 went to graduate school in Villanova and by the time 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.600 I finished my graduate work, the FBI offered me a 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.880 position as a special agent. At the time, you know, 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:31.280 the only reason I applied it was a bet with 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.680 some friends to see how long I will last. In 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:37.240 the process, I was interested in national security. I was 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:41.480 interested in the act of non state actors and the 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:47.560 impact on geopolitics. However, I was not thinking that I 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:50.960 will be working in national security. I wanted to be 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:56.680 an academic and when the FBI offered me the job. 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:01.480 At the time, my favorite show was The X Files. 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:05.040 I don't I don't know if you know your listeners 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:07.720 remember the X Files. So I was like, hey, you know, 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:11.839 why not, I'll go and join the FBI and stay 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:13.680 a couple of years and then I go back to 0:03:13.720 --> 0:03:21.560 academia and the rest was history, you know. I became 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.480 a VI agent that was assigned to New York, and 0:03:24.560 --> 0:03:28.639 because of my interest in the Middle East and the 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:34.080 activities of NUN state actors in the region, I wrote 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:39.640 a paper a memo about this person that we should 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:43.400 be paying attention to his names Sosamma b Laden, and 0:03:43.440 --> 0:03:47.600 I believe you will create a lot of damage uh 0:03:48.280 --> 0:03:52.600 to our interests in the Middle East. That memo made 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:56.120 it to the head of the National Security Division at 0:03:56.160 --> 0:04:01.040 the time, John O'Neill, who became my mentor and who 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:04.000 I lost that day on nine eleven. He was in 0:04:04.080 --> 0:04:12.240 the World Trade Center when the attack happened. And you 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:16.160 know I started to work al Qaeda and Bin Laden. 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:21.800 I was involved in the nine not only in the 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.720 nine eleven investigations when it was called, also in the 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.440 East African embassy bombings and a lot of the plots 0:04:28.440 --> 0:04:32.800 that al Qaeda tried to conduct. In the time period 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.400 between the East African Embassy bombing in between nine eleven, 0:04:36.440 --> 0:04:39.640 we disrupted many plots around the world and were able 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:46.960 to be successful in arresting members of all kinda recruiting 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.040 individuals on the organization. We were able to have a 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:55.240 lot of successes during that time period. We stopped plots 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:59.120 around the world in Europe and North Africa, in Pakistan 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:04.520 and the Arabian Peninsula. We were able to disrupt a 0:05:04.560 --> 0:05:09.200 plot in Jordan. It's called the Millennium plot. Al Kaida 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.839 at the time and its allies were planning to blow 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:17.640 up hotels and attack borders crossings with Israel and even 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:20.680 a plan to assassinate the Pope when he was doing 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:24.159 baptism with the Jordan River. And I was proud to 0:05:24.160 --> 0:05:27.120 be the case agent in charge of that investigation for 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:30.279 the FBI. So we had a lot of successes and 0:05:31.080 --> 0:05:34.479 that's what led me to Yemen. When the attack on 0:05:34.480 --> 0:05:38.359 the USS Call happened October twelve of two thousand, I 0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:42.599 was put in charge of that investigation. So as a 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:47.440 case agent, we were with the team, you know, with 0:05:47.520 --> 0:05:50.760 my team as the team, and we were supported by 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:54.880 the military and the State Department, the intelligence community and 0:05:55.000 --> 0:06:00.120 the Naval Criminal Investigative Services and CIS to invest to 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:05.680 gate that attack. And at the time, we developed so 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:10.880 many leads after we identified who was behind the call attack, 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:14.680 we identified so many leads that led us to Southeast Asia. 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:20.760 Meetings in Southeast Asia that members of al Qaida who 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:25.120 were involved in the call attack directly and indirectly. We're 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:31.159 involved in people who were involved in the call itself. We're, 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.760 you know, at these meetings as well. So we were 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:40.880 asking our intelligence community, our own government, our own agencies 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.880 about information, if they know anything about these meetings. We're 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.560 always told no, no, we have no idea what you 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:51.600 guys talking about. We developed our own leads. We were 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:56.320 able to get more phone numbers, more addresses. We asked 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.880 our own government, do you know anything about any of 0:06:58.920 --> 0:07:01.080 these numbers, any of these individuals. 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:01.560 No. 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:08.640 On nine eleven, I was giving a folder, and that 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:15.360 folder included everything that we've been asking for since, I 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:20.400 have to say, November of two thousand. On September, a 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.440 lot of people that I was looking for, yeah, September eleven, 0:07:24.600 --> 0:07:26.480 and the people that I was looking for in Yemen 0:07:26.680 --> 0:07:30.320 and around the world. Some entities in my own government 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.520 knew that they were in the United States, and they 0:07:34.520 --> 0:07:36.520 were told me some of them were on the planes 0:07:37.040 --> 0:07:40.040 that hit the World Trade Center in the Pentagon. So 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:50.440 for me, nine eleven it's a day of sorrow anger. 0:07:52.920 --> 0:07:56.400 I don't believe nine eleven happened twenty twenty two years ago. 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.720 I still believe you know, it just happened yesterday. The 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:06.080 emotions are very rose raw still. I remember these feelings, 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:13.480 and I remember, you know how we needed to put 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:19.880 emotions aside, put anger aside, because we needed to prove 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:23.320 to the world that al Qaeda and Bladden did it. 0:08:24.160 --> 0:08:28.440 Find the evidence that our government needed in order to 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:32.360 convince leaders in the Muslim world, who many of them 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:35.319 did not believe that al Qaida was behind it, and 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:43.200 to have the international community also agree with the US 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:48.200 that Beladen and al Qaida based in Afghanistan, we're behind that. 0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:54.040 And that was my first job. Immediately after I was 0:08:54.080 --> 0:09:01.199 told those people that I'm looking for you know where 0:09:01.840 --> 0:09:07.319 in the US, and uh, we're able to do that. 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:10.479 We're able to go back. 0:09:11.520 --> 0:09:20.600 To uh the the people you know too. 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:25.400 Many asked for individuals that we were integrating before, and 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.360 all these leads led us to Biladin's personal bodyguard, a 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:38.320 guy by the name of Abujenda, and we uh, you know, 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:43.400 I had a conversation with him, you know where he basically, 0:09:44.400 --> 0:09:50.120 not knowing identified the photos of seven of the hijackers 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:53.000 as Kuida members. At the time, I did not even 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.360 know that these people were hijackers. We showed him photo 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.760 books the very first time. He looked at the photo 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:05.040 books and the photo book includes so many pictures. See, 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.040 I don't even remember the amount of pictures we had. 0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:10.400 We had people from the East African Embassy bombing from 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:14.040 the USS call. But then we had people that the government, 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.840 you know, the FBI headquarters in d C and the 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:20.880 White House were sending us individuals that were arrested. Many. 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:24.200 I recall many of the photos of Steak, you know, 0:10:24.240 --> 0:10:27.600 because they have turbans and they have beards. They arrested 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.360 them and figuring out that they are Taliban or Al 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:33.240 Kaido or they are part of the second wave of attacks, 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:37.920 and were showing him all these photos. You know, at 0:10:37.920 --> 0:10:40.760 the beginning, he didn't identify anyone except bin Laden and 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.040 a couple of main leaders. That there's no way he 0:10:43.120 --> 0:10:46.760 won't know who they were. But later on the second 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.880 time he did the same thing. And then I asked 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.720 him to do it for the third time, and he 0:10:51.920 --> 0:10:56.000 was confused, like, you know, I'm cooperating with you. I 0:10:56.000 --> 0:10:59.120 identified the people that I know. Why are you asking me? 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:05.080 And I said, well, oh yeah, just for for friendship's sake, 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.240 since he's claiming he was a friend. 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:11.600 At the time, and and I think he I st 0:11:11.760 --> 0:11:15.440 recall he get to page number six or number seven 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:19.440 from the photo book and he was turning it, and 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:22.560 that's the only page that I knew, the only one 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:24.800 that I knew he knows. 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:29.720 That person from my investigation. So I went back and 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:31.960 you know, I said, so you're telling me you don't 0:11:32.000 --> 0:11:35.680 know this guy. And I told a body of mine 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.920 who was the NCIS agent assigned to the case. He 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:45.040 was my partner at the time, Robert McFadden. See, I 0:11:45.080 --> 0:11:49.240 told you, so this guy is full of it. And 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:53.599 Abujendal was upset, like, how dare I question his integrity? 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:55.680 So I told him what he knows about that person, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.800 gave him details that nobody knows except a person who 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:06.440 is really over there. And then he said, oh, yeah, 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.120 I know this guy. Yeah, So I identified that person. 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:12.360 And then I told him, I said, look, you don't 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:15.640 know who I know in this book. Said when you 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.560 first saw me, you were shocked, you were surprised. You 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:21.200 never thought that I was an FBI agent, You never 0:12:21.240 --> 0:12:25.280 thought I was an American intelligence officer. I said, so, 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.560 you don't know how many people I have in this 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:32.400 book who are exactly like me, but we're undercover in 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.680 al Qaeda, and they can tell you a lot of 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:40.240 things about the organization and about your relationship to them. 0:12:40.840 --> 0:12:43.839 You won't know who I have no idea who they 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.240 are in this book. You know, there's a lot of 0:12:46.280 --> 0:12:47.800 people I don't know, but I'm not going to tell 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.720 you who they. You know the people that I don't know. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.280 But in the same time, you don't know who we 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.599 have in our custody and talking about you. So you 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.720 better look at the book again and identify the people 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.960 that you know. My god, he identified so many people, 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:09.160 including seven of the hijackers and with their leader Muhammadatta. 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.960 And at the time I did not even know these people. 0:13:14.880 --> 0:13:17.280 I did not know they were on the plane. And 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.880 that's when the president at the time spoke to the 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:22.600 American people when he said that al Qaeda and Beladin, 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.600 we're behind the attack. And our information was taken around 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:32.040 the world from you know, the president of Egypt at 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:35.559 the time, Mubarak, to Musharraf in Pakistan, to the king 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:41.440 of Saudi Arabia, and they were given the proof that 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:46.480 it was Bladen. It was al Qaeda network who were 0:13:46.559 --> 0:13:48.880 behind the attacks on nine eleven. 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:56.240 Before I asked you a question about the legacy of 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.720 those attacks and the wars that followed. Talk, if you 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.840 will for a moment about your friend and your mentor, 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:11.880 John O'Neill, who was a colorful character so far as 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:13.760 the FBI agent's go. 0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:19.960 John was a character bigger than life, you know, and 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.480 people in the bureau either they loved John or they 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.080 hated John. I mean, they're you know, you don't You 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.200 don't have people who who are in the middle of this. 0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:36.920 There's no gray zone. But John had only one thing 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:41.560 important in his life, and it was the mission, and 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:46.720 it was the FBI. Everything else was just a side show. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:56.280 He was amazing in the way he can see the threat, 0:14:56.640 --> 0:15:02.360 can understand it, and can know everything we need to 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.800 do in order to be ahead of it. He saw 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.840 a lot of these things coming. That's why he took 0:15:08.880 --> 0:15:11.800 a new agent under his wing. And here I am 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:16.440 a new person in the FBI office in New York 0:15:17.840 --> 0:15:21.880 hanging out and having dinner or you know, having meetings 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:26.840 and you know, briefing the person in charge of national security. 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:33.120 That's usually did not happen in the FBI during that time. 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:42.000 John supported us, supported us in all our missions gave 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.960 us everything that we need. If you're dedicated to the mission. 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.840 If you're dedicated to the job, John was your biggest fan. 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:57.520 If you thought of the job in the Mission of 0:15:57.640 --> 0:16:01.880 counter Terrorism as a job, then he's going to give 0:16:01.880 --> 0:16:04.200 you a hard time. He used to tell me all 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:09.240 the time. You know, terrorists don't work nine to five. 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:13.320 Terrorists don't work seven days a week. Sorry, five days 0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:19.400 a week, you know, And every time like I was, 0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:25.320 you know, once going to an engagement party and he 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:29.880 wanted me to go with him for some meeting. And 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.480 I said, Boss, I have this engagement party and I 0:16:33.520 --> 0:16:35.440 need to be there. And he thought I was getting engaged. 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.440 He said, are you getting engaged? I said, no, Boss, 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:43.960 I'm not far from it. He said, ah, because if 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:45.400 you are, you have to come and talk to me 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:47.680 about it. I said why. He said, do you know 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:52.120 why divorce is so do you do? You know? If 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:56.720 what's sorry with my chat? Like he said, do you 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.240 know why divorce is so expensive? I said why? He's 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:04.199 because it's worth it. And that was John. You know, 0:17:04.240 --> 0:17:06.280 it's just like you have to be only married to 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:10.200 the FBI, only married to the mission, only married everything aside, 0:17:10.200 --> 0:17:12.760 but you know, last time I saw him, it was 0:17:12.800 --> 0:17:17.520 his last day in the FBI. He was retiring from 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:22.960 the bureau and I was heading back to Yemen and 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.679 just a few days before nine to eleven, and we 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:31.920 went to get a sandwich from you know, a restaurant 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:35.440 across the street from twenty six Federal Plaza FBI offices 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:41.119 in New York, and he was asking me about my 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:46.000 girlfriend at the time, now my wife, and I said, yeah, 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.560 I'm thinking about getting engaged. And he said, you know what, 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:54.080 that's great, that's a great She's a really good woman. 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:58.000 She's been, you know, handling your shit all this time, 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:03.480 all these years. Gave me a big hug and uh. 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.000 And I was like, what what happened here? 0:18:06.040 --> 0:18:06.199 You know? 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.000 I thought, I thought he's gonna, you know, give me 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:13.320 hard time, and uh, that's it. That was the last 0:18:13.359 --> 0:18:17.120 time I saw him. He went to be the head 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:20.640 of security or the Word Trade Center and a few 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:26.000 days later he uh died in the attack by al Kada, 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.359 in the attack by the people that he was trying 0:18:29.400 --> 0:18:36.240 to stop. And he was an amazing supporter for US 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.439 during the USOS call, and he pushed so much to 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:42.960 get information that we were told him and I and 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.320 all the people who are working on the case that 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:50.480 this information did not exist, and this information I led 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.439 to his death because it existed, but somebody refused to 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:53.880 share it. 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:59.960 Now the person who ran the CIA has been lying. 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:04.960 Didn't unit alex station with somebody named Michael Sure. 0:19:06.280 --> 0:19:07.120 Talk about him? 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:14.960 Mhm. My interaction with him was very limited, frankly, but 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:17.879 you know, I'm really disappointed with some of the stuff 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.879 that I heard him saying in public. You know, I 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:27.239 saw at a congressional hearing where he uh supposedly not 0:19:27.280 --> 0:19:32.399 supposedly he said it's there for people to google and 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.520 see it. The best thing that ever happened on nine eleven, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:41.840 that the word trade center fell on John O'Neill. That is, 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:47.879 that's for me, shocking, and that speaks volume about about 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:52.800 the character of that individual. I didn't know much about 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.119 him before I knew people. Some people liked him, some 0:19:55.160 --> 0:20:04.199 people hated him. But I think that specific sentiment that 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.320 he expressed in Congress shocked all the people in the 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.600 committee when he said that speaks volume. 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:15.439 And he, of course was the head of the unit 0:20:15.520 --> 0:20:19.080 that denied you so much of the information that you 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:23.800 needed to crack the case. And to stop the attacks. 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:27.679 I wanted to ask you, when you look back, how 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:33.560 close do you think you were to stopping or being 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.680 able to stop the attacks if you had the information 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:43.640 that you had been told repeatedly didn't exist, that CIA 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:44.240 didn't have. 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.639 And that's something that I honestly, I don't think there 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.480 is a day that passes by that I don't think 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.399 about this. It doesn't crosses my mind for a second. 0:20:59.160 --> 0:21:02.359 So you want to tell me, I'm looking for people 0:21:03.160 --> 0:21:10.280 who I believe they were involved in the murder of 0:21:10.320 --> 0:21:16.680 seventeen American sailors in Aiden and people who are connected 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:21.119 to them. People that I'm looking for and the FBI 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.919 is looking for in Southeast Asia, in Yemen, in the 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:29.360 Middle East, are here in the United States San Diego 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.640 or New Jersey or Virginia or whatever they were at 0:21:32.640 --> 0:21:35.560 the time. You want to tell me we want to 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.480 be on those people like White on Rice. You want 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:40.919 to tell me that we won't be monitoring them and 0:21:41.040 --> 0:21:44.040 trying to figure out what they are doing, or even 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.760 arrested them and trying to, you know, debrief them on 0:21:49.440 --> 0:21:52.479 or interrogate them regarding the meeting in Southeast Asia that 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:55.720 they were involved in. Regarding some of the leaders of 0:21:55.760 --> 0:21:58.479 al Qaeda that they were meeting and what they were planning. 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:06.119 I mean, there is no way that that we won't 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:10.119 be on them. We won't try. And you know, we know, 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:14.080 we know how we do work in the FVII, you know, 0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:19.280 mapping the whole threat and arresting these individuals and at 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:24.639 least they could have stopped and run away. At least 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:27.000 nine eleven probably could have been delayed or could have 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:29.919 been stopped. And this is not only Mew saying that. 0:22:30.000 --> 0:22:32.520 I mean, if you look at the nine eleven Commission report, 0:22:32.680 --> 0:22:39.520 they talk about, you know, opportunities that the plot could 0:22:39.560 --> 0:22:42.920 have been stopped or delayed, and one of them is 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.040 sharing the information with the USS called team, you know, 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.280 the FBI team investigating the USS called That's one of 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:55.639 the findings. You know, at the beginning, there was so 0:22:55.760 --> 0:23:03.280 many you know, deception about if informations were shared or 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:05.800 not shared. I think the nine eleven Commission put that 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.600 to rest. And also on the same time, now we 0:23:08.720 --> 0:23:13.240 have many of the reports government reports had been declassified 0:23:13.280 --> 0:23:15.960 to include the CIA's own report that said that this 0:23:16.119 --> 0:23:19.920 information was not passed to the FBI on a timely basis. 0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:22.439 To the FBI team investigating the USS called on a 0:23:22.480 --> 0:23:27.480 timely basis, and it held for entities in the agencies 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:30.720 and individuals in the agencies, to include the director, accountable 0:23:31.240 --> 0:23:38.719 for not passing that information. However, like everything else since then, 0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:46.240 I did not see any real accountability for you know, 0:23:48.280 --> 0:23:54.280 holding people responsible for not doing their job. And I 0:23:54.320 --> 0:23:59.480 think this lack of accountability goes hand in hand with 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:04.240 lack of experiency, and that's what creates a lot of 0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:07.800 distrust eventually, uh in the American public. 0:24:08.200 --> 0:24:08.520 Uh. 0:24:08.600 --> 0:24:11.600 You know, remember when we all believe that there is 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:14.720 a mushroom cloud and there is you know, w MD 0:24:14.880 --> 0:24:20.480 in Iraq, and we all believe that, you know, your 0:24:20.520 --> 0:24:23.439 torture worked, and we all believed, you know, whatever the 0:24:23.440 --> 0:24:27.720 government told us to believe, and then later we realize 0:24:27.800 --> 0:24:31.080 that it's all wrong. And then we the American public 0:24:31.160 --> 0:24:35.760 realizes that there is no transparency and they have been 0:24:35.880 --> 0:24:41.920 led to and and unfortunately that contribute to the lack 0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:48.640 of trust that we have today between large portions of 0:24:48.960 --> 0:24:52.800 our population towards the institutions and towards the government. 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:58.240 When when you think about that collapse of trust and 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:04.240 institutions and the FBI, good news bad news situation in 0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:08.480 twenty twenty four. Good news on the Republican debate stage, 0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:13.879 there's a Southeast Asian American VVK Ramaswami. The bad news 0:25:13.960 --> 0:25:17.520 is he's talking about, well, we really don't know how 0:25:17.520 --> 0:25:22.720 many federal agents FBI agents, CIA agents were on the 0:25:22.800 --> 0:25:26.159 planes that hit the towers on nine to eleven. And 0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:33.000 so you see wackadoodle conspiracy theories mainstreamed around this event. 0:25:33.200 --> 0:25:38.560 In this country, you have presidential candidates that are considered 0:25:38.680 --> 0:25:45.240 serious from the Republican Party talking about abolishing the Federal 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:52.440 Bureau of Investigation. The institution has become profoundly politicized over 0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:56.200 the Trump era. How does that make you? How does 0:25:56.240 --> 0:26:00.280 that make you feel? Do you understand it the basis it? 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:01.080 Now? 0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:02.280 Do you no? 0:26:02.760 --> 0:26:06.720 I actually think about collapse of trust in the institution? 0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:07.119 Does it? 0:26:07.160 --> 0:26:11.840 Does it drive you? Does it drive you crazy? Does it? 0:26:11.880 --> 0:26:14.800 Does it? Does it make you want to cry? How 0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:16.800 does it? How do you feel about that? 0:26:17.800 --> 0:26:20.399 It frustrates me. Look, I'm a person who left the 0:26:20.480 --> 0:26:24.600 FBI after I felt I you know, I stayed after 0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:27.320 nine eleven. I found out who was involved in nine eleven. 0:26:27.840 --> 0:26:31.840 I led the team for about you know a few 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:34.560 years after nine eleven until two thousand and five, and 0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:38.920 then I realized that you can either, you know, lead 0:26:39.200 --> 0:26:41.480 or be led, or get the hell out. 0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:41.760 Of the way. 0:26:42.000 --> 0:26:44.960 And at the time, I decided to get the hell 0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:47.600 out of the way. You know, I mean, I was here. 0:26:47.640 --> 0:26:51.840 I am fighting for the truth of what happened on 0:26:51.920 --> 0:26:56.679 nine eleven because I was inside the enterprise, if you 0:26:56.680 --> 0:26:58.800 want to call it, and I know exactly what happened, 0:26:58.840 --> 0:27:02.120 and I know how information were not passed. And at 0:27:02.119 --> 0:27:05.159 the time, when you're standing up and doing this, do 0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:07.760 you know how difficult it is, how many people will 0:27:07.800 --> 0:27:10.560 have the sharp lives for you. I used to say 0:27:10.560 --> 0:27:13.119 to people in headquarters and the FBI, some buns when 0:27:13.160 --> 0:27:15.359 they tell me, like I've been traveling to Afghanistan or 0:27:15.400 --> 0:27:18.560 to Yemen or to whatever mission, say be careful. I said, well, 0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.960 you know, I'm fine. You know I'm not going to 0:27:22.000 --> 0:27:24.480 be in DC. I need to be careful in this, 0:27:24.760 --> 0:27:28.159 but not on the front lines. So I was, you know, 0:27:28.560 --> 0:27:32.399 it was difficult for me to do that. And so 0:27:32.960 --> 0:27:37.920 having said that, I look. 0:27:37.920 --> 0:27:43.800 At the successes that we have in the US government, 0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:46.640 and I look at the men and women not only 0:27:46.680 --> 0:27:49.800 in the FBI, but also on the CIA, the people 0:27:49.800 --> 0:27:51.919 in the field, the people on the front lines, not 0:27:52.000 --> 0:27:55.960 the people you know sometimes during that time period, the 0:27:56.640 --> 0:27:58.120 people around the George Tennant. 0:27:58.280 --> 0:28:01.000 But I'm talking about the CIA men and women in 0:28:01.040 --> 0:28:08.159 the field now and back then. I look at the 0:28:08.240 --> 0:28:13.960 military operatives, the Seals, the Delta that they do amazing 0:28:14.080 --> 0:28:18.240