1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm very pleased this afternoon to be joined on the 2 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 1: Warning podcast by somebody that I regard as an American hero, 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: the former FBI agent Ali Soufon, the chair and CEO 4 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,239 Speaker 1: of the Soufon Group, and he is generous enough to 5 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,200 Speaker 1: join us from Doha Cutter where he has just landed 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: and is a little. 7 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 2: Bit jet lagged. 8 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: But nevertheless, good afternoon, or good morning or good evening, Ali, 9 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,279 Speaker 1: whatever time it is in Doha. 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 3: Good evening, Steve. It's a great honor to be with you. 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 3: To thank you very much. 12 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: There may be many people who don't know about your career, 13 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: and I want to let you unfold it in your words. 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: I imagine when the calendar turns to September, it brings 15 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: you back to twenty two years ago, this month, the 16 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: clock was ticking. Why don't you tell us where you 17 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: were twenty two years ago, what you were doing, and 18 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: what you had spent your previous years obsessed about, focused 19 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: on and trying to stop. 20 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 3: Twenty two years ago, September eleven, two thousand and one, 21 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 3: I was in Yemen, and the reason I was in 22 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 3: Yemen I was leading the FBI team investigating the USS call. 23 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 3: Somebody like me I never thought in a million years 24 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 3: I would be an FBI agent. I guess only in America. 25 00:01:52,920 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 3: I came from van On, which was really suffering, you know, 26 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 3: during the Civil War, and I went to school in 27 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 3: the US. I graduated undergrad from a school in Pennsylvania 28 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: and Mansfield University. It's in rural Pennsylvania, and then I 29 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 3: went to graduate school in Villanova and by the time 30 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,600 Speaker 3: I finished my graduate work, the FBI offered me a 31 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: position as a special agent. At the time, you know, 32 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 3: the only reason I applied it was a bet with 33 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 3: some friends to see how long I will last. In 34 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 3: the process, I was interested in national security. I was 35 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 3: interested in the act of non state actors and the 36 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 3: impact on geopolitics. However, I was not thinking that I 37 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 3: will be working in national security. I wanted to be 38 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 3: an academic and when the FBI offered me the job. 39 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 3: At the time, my favorite show was The X Files. 40 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 3: I don't I don't know if you know your listeners 41 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 3: remember the X Files. So I was like, hey, you know, 42 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,839 Speaker 3: why not, I'll go and join the FBI and stay 43 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 3: a couple of years and then I go back to 44 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 3: academia and the rest was history, you know. I became 45 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 3: a VI agent that was assigned to New York, and 46 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 3: because of my interest in the Middle East and the 47 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:34,080 Speaker 3: activities of NUN state actors in the region, I wrote 48 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 3: a paper a memo about this person that we should 49 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 3: be paying attention to his names Sosamma b Laden, and 50 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 3: I believe you will create a lot of damage uh 51 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 3: to our interests in the Middle East. That memo made 52 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 3: it to the head of the National Security Division at 53 00:03:56,160 --> 00:04:01,040 Speaker 3: the time, John O'Neill, who became my mentor and who 54 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 3: I lost that day on nine eleven. He was in 55 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: the World Trade Center when the attack happened. And you 56 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 3: know I started to work al Qaeda and Bin Laden. 57 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 3: I was involved in the nine not only in the 58 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 3: nine eleven investigations when it was called, also in the 59 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: East African embassy bombings and a lot of the plots 60 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 3: that al Qaeda tried to conduct. In the time period 61 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:36,400 Speaker 3: between the East African Embassy bombing in between nine eleven, 62 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:39,640 Speaker 3: we disrupted many plots around the world and were able 63 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 3: to be successful in arresting members of all kinda recruiting 64 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,040 Speaker 3: individuals on the organization. We were able to have a 65 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 3: lot of successes during that time period. We stopped plots 66 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: around the world in Europe and North Africa, in Pakistan 67 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 3: and the Arabian Peninsula. We were able to disrupt a 68 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 3: plot in Jordan. It's called the Millennium plot. Al Kaida 69 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,839 Speaker 3: at the time and its allies were planning to blow 70 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:17,640 Speaker 3: up hotels and attack borders crossings with Israel and even 71 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 3: a plan to assassinate the Pope when he was doing 72 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 3: baptism with the Jordan River. And I was proud to 73 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 3: be the case agent in charge of that investigation for 74 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,279 Speaker 3: the FBI. So we had a lot of successes and 75 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 3: that's what led me to Yemen. When the attack on 76 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 3: the USS Call happened October twelve of two thousand, I 77 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 3: was put in charge of that investigation. So as a 78 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 3: case agent, we were with the team, you know, with 79 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: my team as the team, and we were supported by 80 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 3: the military and the State Department, the intelligence community and 81 00:05:55,000 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 3: the Naval Criminal Investigative Services and CIS to invest to 82 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 3: gate that attack. And at the time, we developed so 83 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 3: many leads after we identified who was behind the call attack, 84 00:06:11,560 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 3: we identified so many leads that led us to Southeast Asia. 85 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,760 Speaker 3: Meetings in Southeast Asia that members of al Qaida who 86 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 3: were involved in the call attack directly and indirectly. We're 87 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 3: involved in people who were involved in the call itself. We're, 88 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 3: you know, at these meetings as well. So we were 89 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,880 Speaker 3: asking our intelligence community, our own government, our own agencies 90 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 3: about information, if they know anything about these meetings. We're 91 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 3: always told no, no, we have no idea what you 92 00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 3: guys talking about. We developed our own leads. We were 93 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 3: able to get more phone numbers, more addresses. We asked 94 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: our own government, do you know anything about any of 95 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 3: these numbers, any of these individuals. 96 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: No. 97 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: On nine eleven, I was giving a folder, and that 98 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 3: folder included everything that we've been asking for since, I 99 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 3: have to say, November of two thousand. On September, a 100 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 3: lot of people that I was looking for, yeah, September eleven, 101 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,480 Speaker 3: and the people that I was looking for in Yemen 102 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 3: and around the world. Some entities in my own government 103 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 3: knew that they were in the United States, and they 104 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: were told me some of them were on the planes 105 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 3: that hit the World Trade Center in the Pentagon. So 106 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 3: for me, nine eleven it's a day of sorrow anger. 107 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 3: I don't believe nine eleven happened twenty twenty two years ago. 108 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 3: I still believe you know, it just happened yesterday. The 109 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: emotions are very rose raw still. I remember these feelings, 110 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 3: and I remember, you know how we needed to put 111 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: emotions aside, put anger aside, because we needed to prove 112 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 3: to the world that al Qaeda and Bladden did it. 113 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 3: Find the evidence that our government needed in order to 114 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 3: convince leaders in the Muslim world, who many of them 115 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 3: did not believe that al Qaida was behind it, and 116 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 3: to have the international community also agree with the US 117 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 3: that Beladen and al Qaida based in Afghanistan, we're behind that. 118 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 3: And that was my first job. Immediately after I was 119 00:08:54,080 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 3: told those people that I'm looking for you know where 120 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:07,319 Speaker 3: in the US, and uh, we're able to do that. 121 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,479 Speaker 3: We're able to go back. 122 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 4: To uh the the people you know too. 123 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 3: Many asked for individuals that we were integrating before, and 124 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 3: all these leads led us to Biladin's personal bodyguard, a 125 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 3: guy by the name of Abujenda, and we uh, you know, 126 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:43,400 Speaker 3: I had a conversation with him, you know where he basically, 127 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 3: not knowing identified the photos of seven of the hijackers 128 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 3: as Kuida members. At the time, I did not even 129 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 3: know that these people were hijackers. We showed him photo 130 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 3: books the very first time. He looked at the photo 131 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 3: books and the photo book includes so many pictures. See, 132 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 3: I don't even remember the amount of pictures we had. 133 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 3: We had people from the East African Embassy bombing from 134 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 3: the USS call. But then we had people that the government, 135 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,840 Speaker 3: you know, the FBI headquarters in d C and the 136 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 3: White House were sending us individuals that were arrested. Many. 137 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 3: I recall many of the photos of Steak, you know, 138 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 3: because they have turbans and they have beards. They arrested 139 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 3: them and figuring out that they are Taliban or Al 140 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: Kaido or they are part of the second wave of attacks, 141 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 3: and were showing him all these photos. You know, at 142 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 3: the beginning, he didn't identify anyone except bin Laden and 143 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:43,040 Speaker 3: a couple of main leaders. That there's no way he 144 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 3: won't know who they were. But later on the second 145 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 3: time he did the same thing. And then I asked 146 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 3: him to do it for the third time, and he 147 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: was confused, like, you know, I'm cooperating with you. I 148 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: identified the people that I know. Why are you asking me? 149 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 3: And I said, well, oh yeah, just for for friendship's sake, 150 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 3: since he's claiming he was a friend. 151 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 4: At the time, and and I think he I st 152 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 4: recall he get to page number six or number seven 153 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:19,440 Speaker 4: from the photo book and he was turning it, and 154 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 4: that's the only page that I knew, the only one 155 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:24,800 Speaker 4: that I knew he knows. 156 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: That person from my investigation. So I went back and 157 00:11:30,200 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 3: you know, I said, so you're telling me you don't 158 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 3: know this guy. And I told a body of mine 159 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 3: who was the NCIS agent assigned to the case. He 160 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:45,040 Speaker 3: was my partner at the time, Robert McFadden. See, I 161 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,240 Speaker 3: told you, so this guy is full of it. And 162 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,599 Speaker 3: Abujendal was upset, like, how dare I question his integrity? 163 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:55,680 Speaker 3: So I told him what he knows about that person, 164 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 3: gave him details that nobody knows except a person who 165 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,440 Speaker 3: is really over there. And then he said, oh, yeah, 166 00:12:06,679 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 3: I know this guy. Yeah, So I identified that person. 167 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 3: And then I told him, I said, look, you don't 168 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 3: know who I know in this book. Said when you 169 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,560 Speaker 3: first saw me, you were shocked, you were surprised. You 170 00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 3: never thought that I was an FBI agent, You never 171 00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 3: thought I was an American intelligence officer. I said, so, 172 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:28,560 Speaker 3: you don't know how many people I have in this 173 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 3: book who are exactly like me, but we're undercover in 174 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 3: al Qaeda, and they can tell you a lot of 175 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 3: things about the organization and about your relationship to them. 176 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,839 Speaker 3: You won't know who I have no idea who they 177 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 3: are in this book. You know, there's a lot of 178 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:47,800 Speaker 3: people I don't know, but I'm not going to tell 179 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 3: you who they. You know the people that I don't know. 180 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 3: But in the same time, you don't know who we 181 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:54,599 Speaker 3: have in our custody and talking about you. So you 182 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 3: better look at the book again and identify the people 183 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 3: that you know. My god, he identified so many people, 184 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 3: including seven of the hijackers and with their leader Muhammadatta. 185 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 3: And at the time I did not even know these people. 186 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 3: I did not know they were on the plane. And 187 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:19,880 Speaker 3: that's when the president at the time spoke to the 188 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 3: American people when he said that al Qaeda and Beladin, 189 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,600 Speaker 3: we're behind the attack. And our information was taken around 190 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 3: the world from you know, the president of Egypt at 191 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,559 Speaker 3: the time, Mubarak, to Musharraf in Pakistan, to the king 192 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 3: of Saudi Arabia, and they were given the proof that 193 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 3: it was Bladen. It was al Qaeda network who were 194 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 3: behind the attacks on nine eleven. 195 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: Before I asked you a question about the legacy of 196 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: those attacks and the wars that followed. Talk, if you 197 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,840 Speaker 1: will for a moment about your friend and your mentor, 198 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: John O'Neill, who was a colorful character so far as 199 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: the FBI agent's go. 200 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 3: John was a character bigger than life, you know, and 201 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 3: people in the bureau either they loved John or they 202 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 3: hated John. I mean, they're you know, you don't You 203 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 3: don't have people who who are in the middle of this. 204 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 3: There's no gray zone. But John had only one thing 205 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 3: important in his life, and it was the mission, and 206 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 3: it was the FBI. Everything else was just a side show. 207 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 3: He was amazing in the way he can see the threat, 208 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 3: can understand it, and can know everything we need to 209 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,800 Speaker 3: do in order to be ahead of it. He saw 210 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 3: a lot of these things coming. That's why he took 211 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 3: a new agent under his wing. And here I am 212 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 3: a new person in the FBI office in New York 213 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 3: hanging out and having dinner or you know, having meetings 214 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 3: and you know, briefing the person in charge of national security. 215 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 3: That's usually did not happen in the FBI during that time. 216 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 3: John supported us, supported us in all our missions gave 217 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: us everything that we need. If you're dedicated to the mission. 218 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 3: If you're dedicated to the job, John was your biggest fan. 219 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 3: If you thought of the job in the Mission of 220 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 3: counter Terrorism as a job, then he's going to give 221 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:04,200 Speaker 3: you a hard time. He used to tell me all 222 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 3: the time. You know, terrorists don't work nine to five. 223 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,320 Speaker 3: Terrorists don't work seven days a week. Sorry, five days 224 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:19,400 Speaker 3: a week, you know, And every time like I was, 225 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 3: you know, once going to an engagement party and he 226 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,880 Speaker 3: wanted me to go with him for some meeting. And 227 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 3: I said, Boss, I have this engagement party and I 228 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: need to be there. And he thought I was getting engaged. 229 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 3: He said, are you getting engaged? I said, no, Boss, 230 00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 3: I'm not far from it. He said, ah, because if 231 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 3: you are, you have to come and talk to me 232 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 3: about it. I said why. He said, do you know 233 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 3: why divorce is so do you do? You know? If 234 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: what's sorry with my chat? Like he said, do you 235 00:16:56,760 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 3: know why divorce is so expensive? I said why? He's 236 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,199 Speaker 3: because it's worth it. And that was John. You know, 237 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 3: it's just like you have to be only married to 238 00:17:06,320 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 3: the FBI, only married to the mission, only married everything aside, 239 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 3: but you know, last time I saw him, it was 240 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 3: his last day in the FBI. He was retiring from 241 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 3: the bureau and I was heading back to Yemen and 242 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 3: just a few days before nine to eleven, and we 243 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 3: went to get a sandwich from you know, a restaurant 244 00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,440 Speaker 3: across the street from twenty six Federal Plaza FBI offices 245 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 3: in New York, and he was asking me about my 246 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 3: girlfriend at the time, now my wife, and I said, yeah, 247 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 3: I'm thinking about getting engaged. And he said, you know what, 248 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 3: that's great, that's a great She's a really good woman. 249 00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 3: She's been, you know, handling your shit all this time, 250 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 3: all these years. Gave me a big hug and uh. 251 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 3: And I was like, what what happened here? 252 00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:06,199 Speaker 2: You know? 253 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 3: I thought, I thought he's gonna, you know, give me 254 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:13,320 Speaker 3: hard time, and uh, that's it. That was the last 255 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:17,120 Speaker 3: time I saw him. He went to be the head 256 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 3: of security or the Word Trade Center and a few 257 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 3: days later he uh died in the attack by al Kada, 258 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 3: in the attack by the people that he was trying 259 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 3: to stop. And he was an amazing supporter for US 260 00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 3: during the USOS call, and he pushed so much to 261 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 3: get information that we were told him and I and 262 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 3: all the people who are working on the case that 263 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 3: this information did not exist, and this information I led 264 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 3: to his death because it existed, but somebody refused to 265 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 3: share it. 266 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 1: Now the person who ran the CIA has been lying. 267 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: Didn't unit alex station with somebody named Michael Sure. 268 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:07,120 Speaker 2: Talk about him? 269 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 3: Mhm. My interaction with him was very limited, frankly, but 270 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 3: you know, I'm really disappointed with some of the stuff 271 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 3: that I heard him saying in public. You know, I 272 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:27,239 Speaker 3: saw at a congressional hearing where he uh supposedly not 273 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 3: supposedly he said it's there for people to google and 274 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: see it. The best thing that ever happened on nine eleven, 275 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 3: that the word trade center fell on John O'Neill. That is, 276 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 3: that's for me, shocking, and that speaks volume about about 277 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 3: the character of that individual. I didn't know much about 278 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 3: him before I knew people. Some people liked him, some 279 00:19:55,160 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 3: people hated him. But I think that specific sentiment that 280 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 3: he expressed in Congress shocked all the people in the 281 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 3: committee when he said that speaks volume. 282 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: And he, of course was the head of the unit 283 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,080 Speaker 1: that denied you so much of the information that you 284 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: needed to crack the case. And to stop the attacks. 285 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you, when you look back, how 286 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: close do you think you were to stopping or being 287 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,680 Speaker 1: able to stop the attacks if you had the information 288 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: that you had been told repeatedly didn't exist, that CIA 289 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: didn't have. 290 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,639 Speaker 3: And that's something that I honestly, I don't think there 291 00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 3: is a day that passes by that I don't think 292 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 3: about this. It doesn't crosses my mind for a second. 293 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,359 Speaker 3: So you want to tell me, I'm looking for people 294 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 3: who I believe they were involved in the murder of 295 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 3: seventeen American sailors in Aiden and people who are connected 296 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 3: to them. People that I'm looking for and the FBI 297 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 3: is looking for in Southeast Asia, in Yemen, in the 298 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,360 Speaker 3: Middle East, are here in the United States San Diego 299 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 3: or New Jersey or Virginia or whatever they were at 300 00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 3: the time. You want to tell me we want to 301 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,480 Speaker 3: be on those people like White on Rice. You want 302 00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:40,919 Speaker 3: to tell me that we won't be monitoring them and 303 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 3: trying to figure out what they are doing, or even 304 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 3: arrested them and trying to, you know, debrief them on 305 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,479 Speaker 3: or interrogate them regarding the meeting in Southeast Asia that 306 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,720 Speaker 3: they were involved in. Regarding some of the leaders of 307 00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,479 Speaker 3: al Qaeda that they were meeting and what they were planning. 308 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 3: I mean, there is no way that that we won't 309 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:10,119 Speaker 3: be on them. We won't try. And you know, we know, 310 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,080 Speaker 3: we know how we do work in the FVII, you know, 311 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 3: mapping the whole threat and arresting these individuals and at 312 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:24,639 Speaker 3: least they could have stopped and run away. At least 313 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 3: nine eleven probably could have been delayed or could have 314 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 3: been stopped. And this is not only Mew saying that. 315 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,520 Speaker 3: I mean, if you look at the nine eleven Commission report, 316 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 3: they talk about, you know, opportunities that the plot could 317 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,920 Speaker 3: have been stopped or delayed, and one of them is 318 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,040 Speaker 3: sharing the information with the USS called team, you know, 319 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 3: the FBI team investigating the USS called That's one of 320 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,639 Speaker 3: the findings. You know, at the beginning, there was so 321 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 3: many you know, deception about if informations were shared or 322 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 3: not shared. I think the nine eleven Commission put that 323 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 3: to rest. And also on the same time, now we 324 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 3: have many of the reports government reports had been declassified 325 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:15,960 Speaker 3: to include the CIA's own report that said that this 326 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,920 Speaker 3: information was not passed to the FBI on a timely basis. 327 00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 3: To the FBI team investigating the USS called on a 328 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 3: timely basis, and it held for entities in the agencies 329 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 3: and individuals in the agencies, to include the director, accountable 330 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:38,719 Speaker 3: for not passing that information. However, like everything else since then, 331 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 3: I did not see any real accountability for you know, 332 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 3: holding people responsible for not doing their job. And I 333 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 3: think this lack of accountability goes hand in hand with 334 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 3: lack of experiency, and that's what creates a lot of 335 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 3: distrust eventually, uh in the American public. 336 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 2: Uh. 337 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 3: You know, remember when we all believe that there is 338 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 3: a mushroom cloud and there is you know, w MD 339 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 3: in Iraq, and we all believe that, you know, your 340 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:23,439 Speaker 3: torture worked, and we all believed, you know, whatever the 341 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,720 Speaker 3: government told us to believe, and then later we realize 342 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 3: that it's all wrong. And then we the American public 343 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 3: realizes that there is no transparency and they have been 344 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 3: led to and and unfortunately that contribute to the lack 345 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:48,640 Speaker 3: of trust that we have today between large portions of 346 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 3: our population towards the institutions and towards the government. 347 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: When when you think about that collapse of trust and 348 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: institutions and the FBI, good news bad news situation in 349 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. Good news on the Republican debate stage, 350 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: there's a Southeast Asian American VVK Ramaswami. The bad news 351 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: is he's talking about, well, we really don't know how 352 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:22,720 Speaker 1: many federal agents FBI agents, CIA agents were on the 353 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: planes that hit the towers on nine to eleven. And 354 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: so you see wackadoodle conspiracy theories mainstreamed around this event. 355 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 1: In this country, you have presidential candidates that are considered 356 00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: serious from the Republican Party talking about abolishing the Federal 357 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: Bureau of Investigation. The institution has become profoundly politicized over 358 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,200 Speaker 1: the Trump era. How does that make you? How does 359 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: that make you feel? Do you understand it the basis it? 360 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: Now? 361 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 3: Do you no? 362 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,720 Speaker 1: I actually think about collapse of trust in the institution? 363 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 2: Does it? 364 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: Does it drive you? Does it drive you crazy? Does it? 365 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 1: Does it? Does it make you want to cry? How 366 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 1: does it? How do you feel about that? 367 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 3: It frustrates me. Look, I'm a person who left the 368 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 3: FBI after I felt I you know, I stayed after 369 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 3: nine eleven. I found out who was involved in nine eleven. 370 00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:31,840 Speaker 3: I led the team for about you know a few 371 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 3: years after nine eleven until two thousand and five, and 372 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 3: then I realized that you can either, you know, lead 373 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 3: or be led, or get the hell out. 374 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 2: Of the way. 375 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 3: And at the time, I decided to get the hell 376 00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,600 Speaker 3: out of the way. You know, I mean, I was here. 377 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,840 Speaker 3: I am fighting for the truth of what happened on 378 00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:56,679 Speaker 3: nine eleven because I was inside the enterprise, if you 379 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:58,800 Speaker 3: want to call it, and I know exactly what happened, 380 00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:02,120 Speaker 3: and I know how information were not passed. And at 381 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:05,159 Speaker 3: the time, when you're standing up and doing this, do 382 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 3: you know how difficult it is, how many people will 383 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 3: have the sharp lives for you. I used to say 384 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 3: to people in headquarters and the FBI, some buns when 385 00:27:13,160 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 3: they tell me, like I've been traveling to Afghanistan or 386 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 3: to Yemen or to whatever mission, say be careful. I said, well, 387 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 3: you know, I'm fine. You know I'm not going to 388 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,480 Speaker 3: be in DC. I need to be careful in this, 389 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 3: but not on the front lines. So I was, you know, 390 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 3: it was difficult for me to do that. And so 391 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 3: having said that, I look. 392 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 5: At the successes that we have in the US government, 393 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,640 Speaker 5: and I look at the men and women not only 394 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 5: in the FBI, but also on the CIA, the people 395 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:51,919 Speaker 5: in the field, the people on the front lines, not 396 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,960 Speaker 5: the people you know sometimes during that time period, the 397 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,120 Speaker 5: people around the George Tennant. 398 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,000 Speaker 3: But I'm talking about the CIA men and women in 399 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 3: the field now and back then. I look at the 400 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 3: military operatives, the Seals, the Delta that they do amazing 401 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 3: work in keeping Americans secure, the American public secure, and 402 00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 3: fight for the United States, and I see how much 403 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 3: sacrifices these people do. I see how many sacrifices I mean, 404 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 3: a woment of the FBI do on databases domestically and internationally. 405 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:32,199 Speaker 3: And it's very difficult for me to see individuals like 406 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: you know, the people that you mentioned, who have no 407 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 3: idea about anything. They never read a report about nine eleventh. 408 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,960 Speaker 3: They don't know. You know, the truth is really more 409 00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:49,680 Speaker 3: complicated than just brushing it with conspiracy theories on lie 410 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 3: because it it gives audience. I think it makes it 411 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 3: very difficult because if you want to avowlce, let's say, 412 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 3: the Federal Gurrea of Investigation, you know, the bureau who 413 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:11,120 Speaker 3: fights counter terrorism, who fights spies, who protect the nation 414 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 3: against industrial espionage, who protect the nation against the foreign agents, 415 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:23,200 Speaker 3: and UH and and and Uh you know, uh, individuals 416 00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:26,640 Speaker 3: who are trying to do us harmed, who fight to 417 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 3: protect our communities regarding uh you know, pedophiles and crimes 418 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:38,240 Speaker 3: against children, organized the crime, white collar investigations. Uh so 419 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 3: you just want to get rid of all this just 420 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 3: because you had a crooked guy who did not want 421 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:47,840 Speaker 3: to believe he lost an election. I mean, come on. 422 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 3: And it's sad to see it coming from a party 423 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 3: that always claimed to be the national security party, the 424 00:29:55,280 --> 00:30:02,800 Speaker 3: party who fights for national security. You know, I'm disappointed 425 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 3: to see all the things and to hear about all 426 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 3: the stuff, and it makes me. It makes me sad, 427 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 3: And because I know a lot of these people, and 428 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 3: I know how much they sacrifice for the sake of 429 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 3: the nation. But unfortunately, we live in a time period 430 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,920 Speaker 3: where we have a lot of crooks and they talk 431 00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 3: about the world. They give an opinion about the world 432 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 3: and about the United States that actually, frankly reflects reflects 433 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 3: their own character. It's a confession of their own character. 434 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 3: That's why they say these things. Uh. These people, I 435 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 3: don't believe they believe in the fidelity or they believe 436 00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 3: in the bravery or the integrity that the men movement 437 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 3: of the CIA or the FBI or the malodority live 438 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 3: by and unfortunately, you know, it's we have something called 439 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 3: the First you know, fortunately we have something to have, 440 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 3: the First Amendment. Unfortunately we have people like them taking 441 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 3: advantage of it in order to create more division and 442 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 3: in order to create hatred against against the institution that 443 00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,560 Speaker 3: keeps us safe. Look, you know, don't get me wrong. 444 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 3: I stood up when we had problem, when the institutions 445 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 3: were lying to the American public, some of the institutions. 446 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 3: I stood up and I fought, and towards the end, 447 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 3: the truth came out. That's exactly what's great about America. 448 00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:51,240 Speaker 3: You know, if I was in China fighting the Chinese 449 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 3: Intellivisions Agency because they were lying to their people, or 450 00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 3: in Russia, or in North Korea or Iran or in 451 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 3: Saudi Arabia, I will be subjected to a bone saw 452 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 3: or to a bullet, or suddenly I'll fly through a window. 453 00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:11,800 Speaker 3: That's what happens. But in America, you stand up, you 454 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:15,640 Speaker 3: do it right, you fight smart, you fight hard, and 455 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 3: the truth will come out. Look, we're not perfect. The 456 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,280 Speaker 3: Founding fathers never claimed that they created a perfect system. 457 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 3: But we always strive towards a more perfect system. And 458 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 3: that's with our politics, that's with our institutions, that's with 459 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,320 Speaker 3: our everything, and that's where we are. And I'm sure 460 00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 3: now we are on a lower a little bit. You know, 461 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 3: the city in the Hill lost a lot of its shine. 462 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,200 Speaker 3: But I am confident with the system that we have, 463 00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,960 Speaker 3: with the people that we have, that the truth eventually 464 00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,360 Speaker 3: will come out. Look at you know what we're talking 465 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,640 Speaker 3: about nine eleven and torture, on all these things on 466 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 3: the water in Iraq, all the stuff that I stood 467 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 3: up against. I had a lot of supporters in the FBI, 468 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 3: in the CIA, in the military, in Congress. Some of 469 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 3: them were supporting me behind most of them, actually you 470 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,040 Speaker 3: were supporting me behind the closed doors. Not a lot 471 00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 3: of people. And you know, you know one of my 472 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 3: biggest supporters who helped me, you know, go through all 473 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 3: these things and just made me know that somebody is 474 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 3: watching my back as Senator McCain. And guess so what 475 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 3: you know, Eventually the truth came out. Eventually these documents 476 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:41,960 Speaker 3: were classified. When I wrote a book about what happened 477 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 3: on nine to eleven and what happened with torture, and 478 00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 3: how the American public would lied to. The book was 479 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 3: heavily declassified, heavily redacted. The FBI told me there is 480 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:55,680 Speaker 3: no secrets in this boot, go ahead and published. Another 481 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 3: agency said absolutely not, and they redacted the hell of 482 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,080 Speaker 3: that book. But you know what's too great about America. 483 00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:06,719 Speaker 3: As frustrating as it was for me to have big 484 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 3: sections of my book redacted, the sections that make my 485 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 3: point about you know what I want to say to 486 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:18,480 Speaker 3: the American public, all of it to a reacted. The 487 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 3: awesome thing that nine years later those same people said, okay, 488 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:31,279 Speaker 3: you can publish. We were wrong. We went through the 489 00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:35,520 Speaker 3: legal process. Fell judge looked at the case. They said, 490 00:34:35,560 --> 00:34:38,839 Speaker 3: you know what, No, you have no right to tell 491 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:42,399 Speaker 3: him not to write these things because these things are 492 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:47,600 Speaker 3: not national security. You're redacting them for different reasons. That's 493 00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 3: what America is all about. So as much as the 494 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 3: system frustrates the hell out of it, as much as 495 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 3: the system made me through lived through hell, but also 496 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,080 Speaker 3: the system worked because we use the same system to 497 00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 3: fight back for truth and for doing the right thing, 498 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 3: and we were successful. I didn't have packs behind me, 499 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 3: I didn't have you know, uh money, I didn't have lobbyists, 500 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 3: I didn't have any of these things. I just had 501 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 3: the truth. And guess what we won. And that's what's 502 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,239 Speaker 3: great about America. And that's why I believe that with 503 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 3: all the things that we see, with all the pessimism, 504 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,680 Speaker 3: with all the partisanship, I believe towards the end, truth 505 00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 3: will come out. And and and for those people who 506 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,719 Speaker 3: say all these bad things about the Bureau, and I'm not, 507 00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:43,919 Speaker 3: you know, trying to defend the Bureau, the Bureau will 508 00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 3: defend itself. And they defend themselves, even though they are 509 00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,160 Speaker 3: very bad at it because they don't talk publicly most 510 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:56,759 Speaker 3: of the time. But let's go one by one, nine 511 00:35:56,760 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 3: to eleven, Okay, every single investigation, and to include the CIA, 512 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 3: they said that if the information was passed to the FBI, 513 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,759 Speaker 3: nine eleven could have been stopped. Number one, Number two 514 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:13,200 Speaker 3: the Iraq War. The only agency, the only agency in 515 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,799 Speaker 3: the US government that refused to say Iraq has the 516 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 3: WMD and connected to all these things that administration was 517 00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 3: trying to sell to the American public was the FBI. 518 00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 3: The only people who investigated a lot of the stuff 519 00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,399 Speaker 3: that has to do with the banking crisis or toward 520 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,799 Speaker 3: all these things. The only people who did not, you know, 521 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 3: allow their people to be involved in torture. Were the FBI. 522 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:44,400 Speaker 3: Trump himself was so happy when the FBI reopened the 523 00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 3: case on Hillary Clinton before the election and now stopped 524 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,560 Speaker 3: at them because they were investigating the investigating them for Look, 525 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 3: you know what, we don't decide or the Bureau does 526 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 3: not decide who the crook is. We just follow the 527 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:05,480 Speaker 3: croc And unfortunately, when you start seeing partisanship go to 528 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 3: this level that we put party above country, We put 529 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,680 Speaker 3: party about our system, We put the party above our constitution. 530 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 3: We put the party and the loyalty to the party 531 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,439 Speaker 3: against the men and women who are protecting this nation 532 00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:22,160 Speaker 3: and putting their life on the line day after day 533 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 3: against all enemies, domestic and foreign. I think I think 534 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,959 Speaker 3: it's sad and it's frustrating for somebody, you know, who 535 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 3: experienced all the things that I experienced in my life. 536 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,439 Speaker 1: A few weeks back, I was really honored to have 537 00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: Ken Burns on the podcast and we were talking about 538 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:47,719 Speaker 1: a forthcoming documentary about the American Bison, talking about the 539 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:52,439 Speaker 1: Civil War, this moment in history, and Ken Bird said 540 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:56,839 Speaker 1: something interesting that that's accurate. He said, the American Revolution 541 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,440 Speaker 1: was a civil war, the Civil War in this country 542 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,399 Speaker 1: was in fact a sectional war. But you grew up 543 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 1: in a country and where eyewitnessed to a civil war 544 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: before you became an American. At this moment of cold 545 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: civil war in this country, the division, the political incitements 546 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: to violence, I wanted to ask your perspective about it, 547 00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,520 Speaker 1: but I also wanted to ask. 548 00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,359 Speaker 2: You in connection with it. 549 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: You, on at least two occasions, have taken a constitutional oath. 550 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:43,040 Speaker 1: You took the naturalization oath to become an American citizen, 551 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: and then, of course you swore an oath of allegiance 552 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,520 Speaker 1: to the Constitution when you became. 553 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:53,200 Speaker 2: An FBI agent. Can you talk about. 554 00:38:54,440 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: The experience of seeing a society unravel and then the 555 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 1: meaning of those oaths, the swearing of an allegiance not 556 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:12,200 Speaker 1: to a land mass, not to a political party, but 557 00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 1: really to a concept or a bundle of ideas. 558 00:39:18,320 --> 00:39:23,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, that's that's a great question, Steve. You know, 559 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 3: I recall the Civil War in Lebanon vividly. I lived 560 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:36,640 Speaker 3: through part of it, and I recall my parents telling 561 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,719 Speaker 3: me that Lebanon used to be the Paris of the 562 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:43,520 Speaker 3: East or the Switzerland of the East, modern wealthy and 563 00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:51,760 Speaker 3: then suddenly we had such a sectarian division, not political divisions, 564 00:39:51,800 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 3: such a sectarian division that people start looking at nationalism 565 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 3: only through the lens of their own sect and that 566 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,880 Speaker 3: led to a civil war, and unfortunately, I started to 567 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 3: see some folks in the US mimicking that. Now in Lebanon, 568 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:25,160 Speaker 3: we did not have a good political system. We did 569 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 3: not have the ideas that you're talking about. You know, 570 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,880 Speaker 3: we did not have a country that went through a 571 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 3: lot and evolved and have you know an amazing constitution 572 00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,960 Speaker 3: that's a living document. And I have a Bill of 573 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 3: Fright and it has all these institutions to support them 574 00:40:43,120 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 3: protect that concept. And that is a difference I would 575 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,120 Speaker 3: like to believe that we have in the United States. 576 00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:58,239 Speaker 3: When I took the oath first for citizenship and then 577 00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,840 Speaker 3: for the FBI and lay for many different things that 578 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:03,880 Speaker 3: I was, you know, doing, and you know you have 579 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 3: to take the oath for it. It's it meant a 580 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:14,279 Speaker 3: lot to me. And it's not just words that you 581 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:21,640 Speaker 3: say because you have to get a pay check for me. 582 00:41:21,680 --> 00:41:23,359 Speaker 3: It's a way of life. And that's why I left 583 00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:25,919 Speaker 3: the government in two thousand and five. I continued to fight. 584 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 3: I continued to fight to get the truth about ninety 585 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,000 Speaker 3: eleven to the American public. I continued to fight against torture. 586 00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:35,960 Speaker 3: I testified in two thousand and nine to Congress way 587 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:41,640 Speaker 3: after I left the FBI about torture, and I continue 588 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,200 Speaker 3: to do what I do today in my company to 589 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 3: protect the national security of the United States and to 590 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 3: fight terrorism. As you know, we were the first people 591 00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:55,320 Speaker 3: who talked about forum fighters in Syria when nobody wanted 592 00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 3: to talk about it. We were the first people who 593 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,480 Speaker 3: talked about the rise of domestic terrorism and the United States. 594 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,760 Speaker 3: We're focusing internationally, and we're not looking at the monaster 595 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,000 Speaker 3: that is growing inside our midst with the white supremacists 596 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:12,120 Speaker 3: and the neo Nazi groups and those people you know 597 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:19,960 Speaker 3: that's fighting a war. Hitler lost seventy five years, seventy 598 00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 3: eight years ago, whatever. And it's amazing for me that, 599 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:34,400 Speaker 3: you know, to look into this amazing nation that we 600 00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:38,400 Speaker 3: have and the constitution that we have and the institutions 601 00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 3: that we have on the loyalty of people from all 602 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 3: walks of life. They come from, you know, Europe. You know, 603 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 3: everybody came from somewhere here, except like if your name 604 00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:53,799 Speaker 3: is running Bear or something. Everybody came from somewhere, and 605 00:42:53,880 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 3: you see them all having this loyalty not to a bloodline, 606 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,280 Speaker 3: but to a concept. And few countries in the world 607 00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,439 Speaker 3: that nationalism is based on a concept. Patriotism is based 608 00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 3: on a concept, not on a bloodline. And we have 609 00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:13,760 Speaker 3: that in the US, and I don't think any country 610 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 3: in the world has it better than us. 611 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,680 Speaker 1: You said that so perfectly, and it's such a part 612 00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 1: of the strength of the country. And you talked about 613 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,680 Speaker 1: a Native American name Running Bear. You know, in the 614 00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:31,399 Speaker 1: Second World War in the Pacific theater, if Running Bear 615 00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:35,040 Speaker 1: was a Navajo, he may well have found himself in 616 00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: the Marine Corps where he was a code talker. And 617 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: one of the things that happened in the Second World 618 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 1: War is that the Allies very early on broke the 619 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,839 Speaker 1: codes of both the Germans and the Japanese, who were 620 00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,160 Speaker 1: not able to break the Ally codes. And one of 621 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,680 Speaker 1: the reasons the Japanese never were able to is they 622 00:43:56,719 --> 00:44:01,880 Speaker 1: had no grasp of context around connection to the language 623 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:05,400 Speaker 1: that was being spoken, and it was a native American language. 624 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 1: No one in Japan spoke Navajo. And you think about 625 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 1: that and you apply that to Ali Sufon. Here you 626 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,759 Speaker 1: have a young man who comes to America from a 627 00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: war tour in the country, receives an education, goes to college, 628 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,880 Speaker 1: winds up in the FBI, and you walk into a 629 00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: room somewhere around the world facing a terrorist, and you 630 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:38,399 Speaker 1: open your mouth and you speak fluent Arabic. You can 631 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:44,520 Speaker 1: quote the Quran back and forth. And the power that 632 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:50,880 Speaker 1: flows from that diversity, that combination of national strength that 633 00:44:51,040 --> 00:44:54,880 Speaker 1: comes from being the only country in the history of 634 00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: the world to be made up of all of the 635 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:01,920 Speaker 1: peoples of the world where every language just spoken every 636 00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,240 Speaker 1: day has been a profound benefit to the United States. 637 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 2: And you represent that perfectly. 638 00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 3: Thank you. And I had so many people who are 639 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 3: native Arabic speakers, and we used to do missions together, 640 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:19,359 Speaker 3: and we used to arrest these people and go and 641 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,640 Speaker 3: talk to them. And literally many of these terrorists they 642 00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,000 Speaker 3: look at us, they thought were Israeli Musae, the Jordanian intelligence, 643 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:31,280 Speaker 3: every single country in the Middle East. You can imagine 644 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 3: they never thought for a second with Americans because in 645 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:39,920 Speaker 3: their mind there's a look for the American FBI or CIA, 646 00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:46,239 Speaker 3: and we're not it. So it was great, and we 647 00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:48,680 Speaker 3: saw the same thing in Afghanistan. We had people in 648 00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:53,560 Speaker 3: Afghanistan that speak Pashtus or you know, or Uzbeks, and 649 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:58,319 Speaker 3: they were amazing. And that's what's great about America, you know. 650 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 3: I mean, with all the problems that we have, we're 651 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:11,800 Speaker 3: still great. I mean seriously, I mean economically, we dominate 652 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,680 Speaker 3: the international economic system in the world. We created the 653 00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:19,520 Speaker 3: system that benefited so many countries and probably the most 654 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:25,120 Speaker 3: wealth the world it ever had in its history, even 655 00:46:25,160 --> 00:46:28,799 Speaker 3: countries like China that we're competing with today. If it 656 00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,080 Speaker 3: wasn't for the system, the economic system created by the 657 00:46:32,160 --> 00:46:39,680 Speaker 3: United States, no way they will have they have now. 658 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,520 Speaker 3: And we are still, you know, dominating on so many 659 00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,560 Speaker 3: different levels. Unfortunately, nobody can defeat us outside the United States. 660 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,880 Speaker 3: We can only defeat ourselves with our division. And I 661 00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:56,240 Speaker 3: think that's why you see many adversaries of the United 662 00:46:56,239 --> 00:46:59,040 Speaker 3: States using social media, using AI, using a lot of 663 00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:05,600 Speaker 3: these crooked politicians in order to promote conspiracy theories, promote division, 664 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:12,279 Speaker 3: you know, taking unfortunate incidents or transgit incidents like you 665 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,839 Speaker 3: know nine eleven or the Iraq War, and put all 666 00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,360 Speaker 3: these things in a different context in order to create 667 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,680 Speaker 3: and instead of having accountability and having learned from our 668 00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:27,480 Speaker 3: mistakes and not repeating it create division and distrust, because 669 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,000 Speaker 3: only when you create distrust in a system, in the 670 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,200 Speaker 3: republic and democracy like the United States, only when you 671 00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:37,759 Speaker 3: create distrust between the people and the institution is when 672 00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:41,200 Speaker 3: you win, when you weaken the United States. And unfortunately, 673 00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,080 Speaker 3: that's exactly what's happened. 674 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:48,880 Speaker 1: That is perfectly stated. Abraham Lincoln talked about this. He said, 675 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:53,880 Speaker 1: the greatest armies of Europe, if they evaded the United States, would. 676 00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,479 Speaker 2: Never take a drink of water from the Ohio River. 677 00:47:57,040 --> 00:47:59,959 Speaker 1: He was right then, he's right now, and he said 678 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,000 Speaker 1: that we are to be undone, it will be by 679 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:06,080 Speaker 1: our own hand. It will be a form of national suicide. 680 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:11,560 Speaker 1: And that's always been the case in its states. 681 00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 3: That's unfortunate, and you know, and the world is getting 682 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:22,280 Speaker 3: more dangerous. For example, nine eleven happened twenty two years ago. 683 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,520 Speaker 3: Al Qaeda on that on the evening of ninet eleven, 684 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:28,319 Speaker 3: they had four hundred members, nineteen of them were on 685 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,480 Speaker 3: the planes. Today al Qaeda itself have more than forty 686 00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,480 Speaker 3: thousand members. And they are not only in Afghanistan, they 687 00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,600 Speaker 3: are not only in Kandahar or Inkabo, they are also 688 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:41,040 Speaker 3: in Yemen with al Kaieda and the Arabian Peninsula. They 689 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:44,960 Speaker 3: are in Asahel, they are in West Africa, they are 690 00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 3: in back in Afghanistan. They are in so many different places. 691 00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:54,319 Speaker 3: They are spread around the world. You know, we used 692 00:48:54,320 --> 00:48:56,880 Speaker 3: to have embassies, even in Kabo. We had an embassy 693 00:48:56,880 --> 00:48:59,080 Speaker 3: in Libya. We have an embassy in Syria. We had 694 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,239 Speaker 3: an embassy in them. We had an embassy in Summer Area. 695 00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,360 Speaker 3: We have many different Somalia. Now we don't have embassies 696 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,840 Speaker 3: in any of these places. We don't have embassies in 697 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:12,239 Speaker 3: all these places. You know, we're we're running blind. And 698 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,200 Speaker 3: so the world is very dangerous today. We have more 699 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,600 Speaker 3: areas in the world, important geopolitical areas in the world, 700 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:24,040 Speaker 3: that are controlled by non state actors, not by by states. 701 00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:27,040 Speaker 3: And I'm not talking about the coups in Africa. I'm 702 00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:31,799 Speaker 3: talking about Yemen, for example, with the healthies on Lebanon, 703 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:36,840 Speaker 3: with his Blah or sha in Iraq or al Qaeda, 704 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,480 Speaker 3: or the branches of control larger swamps and lands of lands. 705 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,160 Speaker 3: Still not only in Syria and in Iraq this is 706 00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,720 Speaker 3: a smaller but in Africa and northern Nigeria like Bokoharam. 707 00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 3: So we have an arc of instability that goes all 708 00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,040 Speaker 3: the way from all western shores of Africa all the 709 00:49:55,080 --> 00:50:01,600 Speaker 3: way to Southeast Asia. Taliban is back in control of Afghanistan. 710 00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 3: This is the world that we live in. Then we 711 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,880 Speaker 3: have this war in Ukraine with Russia that is in 712 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:12,880 Speaker 3: the you know, you know, they from a geopolitical perspective, 713 00:50:13,120 --> 00:50:17,520 Speaker 3: is a second order global second order, because the first 714 00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,799 Speaker 3: order is still China in the competition against China. So 715 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:26,000 Speaker 3: if we need unity, it is now we have so 716 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:29,880 Speaker 3: many the world is literally on a crossroad. And then 717 00:50:29,920 --> 00:50:33,040 Speaker 3: you have these people on the stage, on the Republican stage, 718 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,879 Speaker 3: saying the stuff that you were talking about, and they 719 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,719 Speaker 3: want to demolish the institutions that making us strong and 720 00:50:41,760 --> 00:50:45,880 Speaker 3: making us you know, able to protect the American public 721 00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:52,880 Speaker 3: of all the enemies domestic and foreign. It's you know, 722 00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:59,279 Speaker 3: I'm still optimistic. I still believe that the glass is 723 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:03,640 Speaker 3: how and I think we need to do a better 724 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:06,920 Speaker 3: job in you know, standing up for our values and 725 00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:09,239 Speaker 3: America will stand up for itself. We want through a 726 00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,440 Speaker 3: lot before and America always prevailed and I believe we 727 00:51:13,520 --> 00:51:17,560 Speaker 3: will prevail. Our system will prevail, and these crooks will 728 00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,760 Speaker 3: find themselves in the thrash of history. 729 00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: I think that is a perfect place to leave it. 730 00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:28,319 Speaker 1: On a note of optimism, Alisufon, it has been an 731 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:32,440 Speaker 1: honor to be with you, everybody. I encourage you to 732 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,800 Speaker 1: read the accounts of what Alisufon has done with his life, 733 00:51:37,719 --> 00:51:41,760 Speaker 1: the chronicles of it along with the FBI Agent Supervisory 734 00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:46,880 Speaker 1: FBI Agent John O'Neill in the Looming Tower. An extraordinary service, 735 00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 1: an extraordinary story of service and dedication to the country. 736 00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:54,400 Speaker 1: It's been a real pleasure to spend this hour with you. 737 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,680 Speaker 3: Thank you, Alli, the pleasure is mine. Thank you. Steve 738 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:05,880 Speaker 3: the fat change for a tangent s