Speaker 1: Davis, and I want to know, are you a Charlotte
Speaker 1: Guess what we have Chloe Mall. I am so excited
Speaker 1: because Chloe is connected to the show in so many
Speaker 1: different ways. It's true. Are basically a second generation member
Speaker 1: of the family. It's true. I'm an satc nebobaby. You are.
Speaker 1: We've coined a phrase. I love it. We've coined a phrase.
Speaker 1: She's an satc nebo baby. I love it. And secondarily
Speaker 1: to that, or in front of that, I guess. She
Speaker 1: is the editor of Vogue dot com and she has
Speaker 1: an incredible podcast, The run Through with Vogue, And I mean,
Speaker 1: it's just a joy in so many different ways. I
Speaker 1: literally have the longest list of questions for you.
Speaker 2: I'm so excited. It's very fun to be on the
Speaker 2: other side of the mic in this.
Speaker 1: Story, is it. Do people ask you to be on
Speaker 1: a lot of podcasts.
Speaker 2: No, I'm usually the one talking to other people, got it.
Speaker 1: It's a joy. I have had such a you know,
Speaker 1: I love doing my podcast because of course I love
Speaker 1: our show and it's been super fascinating, and I love
Speaker 1: to have on our cast members and writers and everybody,
Speaker 1: but also other people like yourself, and it makes me
Speaker 1: understand being a guest so much better. Yeah, like really,
Speaker 1: I'm like light bulb moment, like, you know, let's have fun. Basically,
Speaker 1: it's like in film school.
Speaker 2: At the first year of film school, they make students
Speaker 2: do every possible role on a film set so that
Speaker 2: you know what you're dealing with.
Speaker 1: It's exactly like that.
Speaker 2: Yes, so today I'm the grip.
Speaker 1: Tomorrow you're not the grip. Today you are the actor.
Speaker 1: I would say, sure, but you have a lot of
Speaker 1: technical expertise, so you're like a really well trained actor.
Speaker 1: I think maybe. Okay. So Chloe is the child of Kendesbergen,
Speaker 1: a beloved actress and friend of the brand, as we say,
Speaker 1: and Candy is just such a joy in so many ways.
Speaker 1: As obviously you know, she is your mother, which is
Speaker 1: incredible to even think about. And your father is Louis
Speaker 1: mal who if you don't know, please look him up.
Speaker 1: He is alleged film director of like foundational memories for
Speaker 1: all of us in my generation at least that hopefully
Speaker 1: everyone else is as well. So that's just brief summary.
Speaker 1: So I just want to go back for a second
Speaker 1: for anyone listening. Our showrunner Michael Patrick King has a
Speaker 1: very long history with your mom, which is how your
Speaker 1: mom came to play Enid, the editor of Vogue. In
Speaker 1: the Sex and the City World. I think Michael Patrick
Speaker 1: King wrote on Murphy Brown. That's right. He won an
Speaker 1: Emmy for writing on Murphy Brown, his first which is
Speaker 1: so amazing to think about, and from his description of it,
Speaker 1: your mom was really his champion. I think he came
Speaker 1: in just as one of many, many writers because in
Speaker 1: the heyday of sitcoms, which that was definitely in the heyday,
Speaker 1: you know, you might have fifteen writers something like this,
Speaker 1: and she really was like that guy, that young guy
Speaker 1: that stand up him, you know, so he really rose
Speaker 1: within the ranks of Murphy Brown, which was a very credible,
Speaker 1: you know, much lauded, incredibly viewed sitcom of the nineties.
Speaker 1: I guess eighties nineties, Yeah, is that right? So then
Speaker 1: she comes we start our show. For the beginning, she
Speaker 1: didn't come on for a while, and then when she
Speaker 1: did come on, she came on to play Enid the
Speaker 1: editor of Vogue, And she has now played Enid through
Speaker 1: the first series, the film, the first film, for sure,
Speaker 1: I want to say. And then she's also come on
Speaker 1: and just like that, which is to us just incredible
Speaker 1: and a miracle. And then for myself, I was in
Speaker 1: a play on Broadway called The Best Man. Oh, yes,
Speaker 1: of course. I mean it was so amazing cast right,
Speaker 1: James Earl Jones, James Earl Jones, Angela Lansbury jumphead. I
Speaker 1: mean it was real. It was a joy in so
Speaker 1: many ways. And your mom was there. I was literally
Speaker 1: dying of nerves. I was like the second cast right,
Speaker 1: So when we came, I mean I was just like,
Speaker 1: could hardly function basically from nerves. And the fact that
Speaker 1: your mom was there really helped me because she's such
Speaker 1: a warm, comforting presence. And she was like Chris did
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, I can't do it. I'm so scared.
Speaker 1: So she was really she was really joy. And Angela
Speaker 1: also she used to call me Starshine cute. I know,
Speaker 1: she's second morning star shine. I'd be like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: going to die of happiness. Yeah. It was incredible. And
Speaker 1: then your mom, your mom had finished with the run.
Speaker 1: We were like, please don't leave us. But it was
Speaker 1: a great, great thing. So I love your mom in
Speaker 1: so many ways, so so so many ways. And I
Speaker 1: love that you have landed in this incredible fashion world
Speaker 1: and position. How did it happen? Oh?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean one hundred percent this is I mean,
Speaker 2: there were a couple of like little news bits when
Speaker 2: I got this most recent job, and they're like, well,
Speaker 2: and remember Cannesbergen played a Vogue editor. It's not by
Speaker 2: accident completely. I mean, I'm one hundred percent. My connect
Speaker 2: to people in the publishing and media industry got me
Speaker 2: into the door, no question. And I think about that
Speaker 2: a lot when sort of friends kids write to me.
Speaker 2: I also want to respond to random people from college
Speaker 2: who have just graduated, you know, for my college and
Speaker 2: want to write to me. I really want to reply
Speaker 2: to people who I don't, who don't have a connection,
Speaker 2: because for me, it was absolutely because I had connections
Speaker 2: to Vogue that I got interviews here in the first place.
Speaker 1: And that was fifteen years ago.
Speaker 2: That was twenty eleven, and I was writing at The
Speaker 2: New York Observer and The Times at the Times, and
Speaker 2: I came into interview for an editor job at Vogue,
Speaker 2: which was at the time editing the front of the
Speaker 2: magazine section called Flash, which was sort of the fluffy, exciting, events,
Speaker 2: glittery part of the magazine. It was the weddings, it, girls, parties,
Speaker 2: et cetera, and that was really fun and a great
Speaker 2: way to sharpen my teeth in magazine editing. After five
Speaker 2: years of doing that, I then went freelance for a
Speaker 2: while and then about a year and a half ago,
Speaker 2: I came on to take this role as editor of
Speaker 2: the website because my podcast co host cho Minati went
Speaker 2: moved to London to become an editor of British Vogue,
Speaker 2: and she had been editor of the podcast, so.
Speaker 1: We did a little musical chairs amazing and to me,
Speaker 1: as a you know, lover of Vogue, I feel like
Speaker 1: the website And I guess this is true for most magazines,
Speaker 1: you know, because publishing itself like paper, old fashioned publishing
Speaker 1: is kind of having, you know, its struggles these days.
Speaker 1: But now I feel like the website is so so vibrant,
Speaker 1: like taking over in such a beautiful way. Well that's
Speaker 1: nice to hear, thank you. Yeah, I feel that. I
Speaker 1: really feel that, like the once the kind of you know,
Speaker 1: for me. I remember when Olivia Wilde did a cover.
Speaker 1: This was a few years back, and there's a beautiful
Speaker 1: video that went with it where you could really only
Speaker 1: put that on the website. You know, it wasn't something
Speaker 1: that would have had a place to live in its entirety,
Speaker 1: and it was gorgeous and it really brought it all
Speaker 1: to life in a way that I mean. Yes, a
Speaker 1: photo shoot is fascinating and looking at a page I
Speaker 1: love still, of course because I am old, but I
Speaker 1: also love the moving image, so it's kind of the
Speaker 1: union of both.
Speaker 2: It's exciting to experiment with mixing different types of media
Speaker 2: that supplement the original print form rather than replace it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it makes it part of a bigger, more holistic product.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, But what about your love of fashion, because
Speaker 1: your mom was an incredible fashion icon. I mean, did
Speaker 1: you grow up surrounded by her closet and loving her
Speaker 1: fashion or did you not care? Like how where were you?
Speaker 2: She is very dismissive of her love of fashion. She
Speaker 2: does not want to be She's someone who cares about
Speaker 2: what she wears and likes clothes, but she doesn't I
Speaker 2: don't think she would ever describe herself as a fashion person.
Speaker 2: But she was always on best dress lists. And I
Speaker 2: remember once I asked her if she was a hippie
Speaker 2: because we were talking about how she protested Vietnam, and
Speaker 2: she said I was a well dressed hippie.
Speaker 1: I love that so much. I love that so much,
Speaker 1: and that's absolutely true. I mean, you do get the
Speaker 1: sense that she was this just incredibly beautiful young woman
Speaker 1: who kind of just fell into kind of her early
Speaker 1: days modeling. It wasn't something that she wanted to do.
Speaker 1: It just seemed like people saw her and just wanted
Speaker 1: to photograph her.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think that, and she's written about this too,
Speaker 2: But I think that part came very easily, and what
Speaker 2: was more difficult was getting people to take her see
Speaker 2: seriously for other pursuits like photography or writing. And I
Speaker 2: was thinking about that because I just watched Mrsca Hargate's
Speaker 2: documentary about her mother and my mom Jane and Jane
Speaker 2: Mansfield had a similar I think that happened and still
Speaker 2: happens to a lot of women who are very beautiful,
Speaker 2: where it is hard for them to be taken seriously
Speaker 2: for anything beyond superficial attributes. That definitely, I think that's
Speaker 2: probably part of why she never leaned into loving fashion
Speaker 2: as much as.
Speaker 1: I don't know that.
Speaker 2: She loves fashion, but she loves her own style, and
Speaker 2: I think she loves wearing things that make her happy
Speaker 2: and bring her joy. And absolutely she's not a vain
Speaker 2: person at all, and so she's very interested in.
Speaker 1: Joyful, sort of goofy.
Speaker 2: Things, and it doesn't have to be something that's necessarily
Speaker 2: the most flattering or the sheikhist. It's more about dressing
Speaker 2: for herself, which I respect.
Speaker 1: I respect that so much, And Sir Jessica is like
Speaker 1: this as well. You know, people think that she is
Speaker 1: going to have this incredible closet at her house. She
Speaker 1: does not. Everything's in you know, storage catalogued, which is incredible,
Speaker 1: of course, but you know, she she has like three
Speaker 1: things that she wears on repeat, and they're quirky because
Speaker 1: she's trying to create, you know, an expression of herself.
Speaker 1: She's she's interested in that more so than you know,
Speaker 1: the trends or fitting in or having the newest thing
Speaker 1: or whatever it is. And that I think is so
Speaker 1: strange for people obviously who've grown up watching her as Carrie,
Speaker 1: because they think she is going to be carry and
Speaker 1: she's not. But I also think it's true for anyone
Speaker 1: who achieves that status of being an eight girl or
Speaker 1: you know, in whatever era, you're you're kind of pigeonholed.
Speaker 1: In that in that kind of moment of time in
Speaker 1: a weird, weird way. But I'm still interested in you, Chloe.
Speaker 1: So I know your mom, so no matter whether she
Speaker 1: wants to say that she's in fashion or not, I
Speaker 1: know she has incredible things. So I just want to
Speaker 1: know when you were growing up because I have a child, right,
Speaker 1: I've two, a boy and girl, and I'm always curious
Speaker 1: seven and thirteen. I'm always curious my daughter thirteen year
Speaker 1: olds at this time, it is fascinating, right, I mean
Speaker 1: so fascinating, and she really doesn't like most of my stuff,
Speaker 1: but every once in a while she'll go like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, like light bulb goes off on her, Oh
Speaker 1: I want that. And I'm always like really flattered because
Speaker 1: they're very picky, very very picky, very very picky tweens, right,
Speaker 1: tweens teens, But like what you know, you were surrounded
Speaker 1: by these beautiful things. Did you think, oh, gosh, I
Speaker 1: love these beautiful things. I understand them. I want to
Speaker 1: understand them. I want to wear them. How what was
Speaker 1: your relationship thinking back now?
Speaker 2: I mean I have a three year old daughter who
Speaker 2: every time she gets dressed or undressed, it's like an operatic,
Speaker 2: complete tantrum, and it's completely exhausting. But I do think
Speaker 2: about how much I respect how my mom let me
Speaker 2: wear whatever I wanted as a teenager, and I wore
Speaker 2: some deranged outfish.
Speaker 1: I mean, wait, what year was this? What year was this?
Speaker 2: This was I would say when I was like fourteen fifteen,
Speaker 2: so ninety nine, two thousand, I was still living in
Speaker 2: la I used to go there was a great vintage
Speaker 2: store on Ventura called Iguana Vintage. I would go there
Speaker 2: and get like orange swed cowboy boots. There was like
Speaker 2: a belt that had a huge clock face on it.
Speaker 2: I mean really truly hideous face.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: And she was just always just was like, okay, whatever.
Speaker 2: I also like to make a lot of like sort
Speaker 2: of craft a lot of my things. I would paint
Speaker 2: on my corduroys. I would, you know, cad up a
Speaker 2: David Bowie T shirt and make it into a tube top,
Speaker 2: which I wore in New York City.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my gosh, Oh that's very come on,
Speaker 1: that's very in. My daughter would be way into that
Speaker 1: if I were to allow her to wear such a thing.
Speaker 2: And she, I mean she really let me live that
Speaker 2: that truth.
Speaker 1: Wow, wow. Wow when you look at fashion now, because
Speaker 1: now these things are coming back in weird ways, like
Speaker 1: some of them are coming back and some of them
Speaker 1: aren't coming back. I'm very confused personally because I already
Speaker 1: lived it right as an adult, Like there are pictures
Speaker 1: of us in these things, and so now I'm confused
Speaker 1: about what I can wear or should wear. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. How do you look at the kind
Speaker 1: of comeback of the nineties vibe? I never had a
Speaker 1: sort of either a.
Speaker 2: Like an indie sleeze or a grunge or a minimalist period.
Speaker 2: I was always very were a lot of colorful, vintage things,
Speaker 2: so that those moments that are coming back into cultural
Speaker 2: parlance today are not as triggering for me. I will
Speaker 2: say that there was a moment I think I was
Speaker 2: sixteen or seventeen.
Speaker 1: My mom and I were going to Barney's New York together.
Speaker 1: Oh this is so no, this is so much.
Speaker 2: There was a paparazzi photo taken of the two of us,
Speaker 2: and my mom looked great. She was in her uniform
Speaker 2: of like slacks and a button down and some turquoise earrings,
Speaker 2: and I was wearing like sort of vomit colored corduroys
Speaker 2: and welly boots that were frogs. Wow, because I had
Speaker 2: those as a kid, and then I got them again
Speaker 2: as a grown up, and now J. W. Anderson makes
Speaker 2: the frog wellies for grown ups that are like seven
Speaker 2: hundred dollars. I'm like, you know what, maybe that ouf
Speaker 2: it wasn't as.
Speaker 1: Bad as I thought it was. See, it does all
Speaker 1: come back around.
Speaker 2: It does, Because seeing that photo, I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe I don't look as cool as I think I look.
Speaker 1: I mean, I feel that way anytime I see a
Speaker 1: paparazzi picture. You don't, I like, you never feel happy.
Speaker 1: I don't think. I mean, I don't know who does.
Speaker 1: But I also think that. I mean, I know at
Speaker 1: the time, I remember just desperately trying to wear these
Speaker 1: things because I felt like I should. And you know,
Speaker 1: if I went on a photo shoot, all they would
Speaker 1: have would be low slung jeans where you weren't really
Speaker 1: supposed to have hips or a rear end or anything
Speaker 1: like that, and I would just be sweating bullets trying
Speaker 1: to fit myself in there. And I have there's some
Speaker 1: pictures of me existing out there where I'm just like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't believe I'm wearing that out
Speaker 1: in the world, like my abdomen is showing and stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, oh my lord, but you know that's what
Speaker 1: we did. I don't know. We were young. We didn't
Speaker 1: think that hard about it, and you kind of felt
Speaker 1: like it was just going to go away. Yeah it doesn't.
Speaker 1: It's back already. Why is it so short now?
Speaker 2: Low jeans don't need to come back for me? Right?
Speaker 1: I respect those who are passionate about them, really really,
Speaker 1: I mean, my feeling isn't just no, like I do
Speaker 1: not want my daughter wearing well, that's true, Like I
Speaker 1: have to draw the line because I can't get her
Speaker 1: out of the crop right, and she's very tall. So
Speaker 1: if we've got the crop and then we've got the law. No,
Speaker 1: it's a lot, it's too much, right, Okay, thank you.
Speaker 1: I feel better now, I think because I do struggle, Like,
Speaker 1: am I being too controlling? I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: I also think though, that sometimes kids don't realize the
Speaker 2: suggestions of things they wear. I have such a specific
Speaker 2: memory of there was a brand of T shirts that
Speaker 2: they sold at fred Siegel Jet Johnashia Teas that were everywhere.
Speaker 2: When I was like thirteen, and it was the cool
Speaker 2: thing to get and to wear, and they had sort
Speaker 2: of cheeky things written on them, and everyone wanted to
Speaker 2: get one that said open twenty four hours and we
Speaker 2: didn't get it. We were just like, this is funny,
Speaker 2: it's like a diner. And the moms lost their minds
Speaker 2: and it was it sort of needed that maternal gut
Speaker 2: check to be like, no, no, ladies, this is not
Speaker 2: a coffee shop.
Speaker 1: This is your vagina.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: It's a very stressful thing as a mom because, like
Speaker 1: I've had some conversations with my daughter about this, not
Speaker 1: not she doesn't wear anything like that so far, thank goodness,
Speaker 1: but you know, just like a general conversation like I
Speaker 1: went to the Paris uh you know, uh not what's
Speaker 1: it called Roland Garros? You know, the Paris Open? What's
Speaker 1: it has been? The French Open? Thank you so much,
Speaker 1: the French Open. I went there. I've been before, and
Speaker 1: they have this very elaborate like collab store where it's
Speaker 1: you know, Lacoste who sponsors it, and then also Wilson
Speaker 1: and my youngest my son is named Wilson, so I'm
Speaker 1: in there, I know, right, I'm like, this is so exciting,
Speaker 1: and you know, we were there because HBO Max whatever
Speaker 1: we're supposed to say these days, was airing the tennis.
Speaker 1: So we're there and I'm shopping for the kids and
Speaker 1: there are these really cute kind of vintage shorts that
Speaker 1: had a w on them, but they didn't really have
Speaker 1: his size. They had gemesize my daughter. So I thought, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get these because they they have a brother's
Speaker 1: name on them. I didn't really realize they were like
Speaker 1: kind of short in a vintage kind of a way. Right.
Speaker 1: She's all leg you know, and I mean she looks incredible.
Speaker 1: Everyone compliments her. I'm just dying, you know. People tell
Speaker 1: her you should be a model. I'm just like want
Speaker 1: to fall through the planet Earth, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I'm just dying. So I get them for her. Then
Speaker 1: I can't tell them that she can't wear them because
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh my god, you got I bought them.
Speaker 1: But then so then I was like, okay, so we
Speaker 1: can't wear a crop top with them. But then I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm like so controlling, and then she says,
Speaker 1: well why not. I want to feel free, I want
Speaker 1: to feel good, and I want to say yes, you
Speaker 1: can feel good and you can feel free, just only
Speaker 1: in the house.
Speaker 2: It's very tricky, it is, right, and I think it's
Speaker 2: much trickier now than it was twenty years ago because
Speaker 2: we want to be much more. We want to endorse
Speaker 2: her our children's confidence and positivity and make them feel good.
Speaker 2: But it's hard to navigate that it is.
Speaker 1: I find it really stressful. And I'm also so curious
Speaker 1: about people in fashion and how they look at it,
Speaker 1: you know, because I also know there's a huge, you know,
Speaker 1: variety of how people parent, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: And you know sometimes I mean like when we were
Speaker 1: going to talk to you and you sent your favorite outputs,
Speaker 1: which we will get to from the show. You know,
Speaker 1: it made me start thinking about like there were things
Speaker 1: in the show because I grew up in the South
Speaker 1: where you know, there was a look, but it was
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm pretty sure I had some wide
Speaker 1: whale corduroys that had frogs embroidered on them, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Like we were that level, you know
Speaker 1: at one point, my parents not so much. But I
Speaker 1: wanted to fit in at school and be like super preppy,
Speaker 1: which meant all kinds of relatively unflattering things, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, But they were in so who cares
Speaker 1: when you're a teen, right, Yeah? And I mean then
Speaker 1: I went to college in New Jersey at Wrutgers, and
Speaker 1: they were just like, what are you wearing? Like, you know, girl,
Speaker 1: like come on. And then they took me to Vinson Stores,
Speaker 1: which was definitely an expansive, wonderful thing. And I wore
Speaker 1: oversized jackets because it was the time of Madonna with
Speaker 1: our you know tights, right, and I don't think I've
Speaker 1: really had pearls, but you know, we were like, you know,
Speaker 1: I've been through many phases, right, this is this is
Speaker 1: what it means to be alive this long. But our
Speaker 1: own view of fashion, you know, it changes so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I remember when we started doing the show, I
Speaker 1: just really wanted to look like I fit in because
Speaker 1: I didn't have this like fantastic New York background that
Speaker 1: Sir Jiska and Cynthia had. I had been an out
Speaker 1: of work actress in New York for a few years
Speaker 1: before I moved to LA But that's a very different
Speaker 1: existence than the characters we were playing, you know, And
Speaker 1: we didn't have hardly a budget at all. When I
Speaker 1: had Molly Price, our costume designer, and she told me
Speaker 1: we had ten thousand dollars for the entire first season.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, can you believe that? Wild? I know,
Speaker 1: And we hadn't been on the area yet, so no
Speaker 1: one was lending us because they didn't know what we
Speaker 1: were doing. You know, wasn't there some.
Speaker 2: Great story about the first baguette that like Patricia found
Speaker 2: it somewhere or something. Because the idea that what Texas
Speaker 2: City did for the baguette, I know, any brand should
Speaker 2: be so lucky, and the idea of what that be
Speaker 2: beg borrowed and stolen was is fantastic.
Speaker 1: It's true. That was so Sarah Jessica already had a
Speaker 1: lot of her relationships because she had been an it girl.
Speaker 1: She tells me that I'm wrong when I say this,
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, no, I'm sorry. I have to correct you.
Speaker 1: I am correct. You are an it girl. She already
Speaker 1: had a collection of Manolo's, like a couple hundred pairs
Speaker 1: or something, and I remember because I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know, like so impressed, right, And she tells a
Speaker 1: great story of being in La working and Manolo himself
Speaker 1: was here at the only store, which I believe was
Speaker 1: on the Sunset Strip at the time, and she met
Speaker 1: him like on her rainy day, no one was there.
Speaker 1: He was doing like a you know show room type
Speaker 1: of a you know, trunk show, and she was there
Speaker 1: and he made he made shoes for her just because
Speaker 1: she was a customer, not because she was an actress.
Speaker 1: Where she got to pick the fabric and pick the
Speaker 1: heel and you know, all those things. Wow. Then she
Speaker 1: ends up shipping them back to New York in em
Speaker 1: FedEx and it gets lost, I know, the pain, the pain.
Speaker 1: So that was years before we did the show, right,
Speaker 1: So she had already started cultivating these relationships because she
Speaker 1: has incredible tastes just naturally, you know, and she appreciates,
Speaker 1: appreciates well made things and the kind of the craftsmanship
Speaker 1: of all of it. So she already when we did
Speaker 1: the show with Theirs in the first season, she wears
Speaker 1: the naked dress which was Donna Karaen I think, and
Speaker 1: that was her own dress that she had worn to
Speaker 1: an event, so she already she just went to her
Speaker 1: closet got it out because we didn't have money to
Speaker 1: get to get amazing things and no designers knew about
Speaker 1: us yet, right, so only from her contact did they know.
Speaker 1: So she could occasionally say, oh, I'll call and try
Speaker 1: to borrow something, and I remember as as myself going
Speaker 1: like wow, that is amazing, and it was very clear.
Speaker 1: She would always say, like, we have to return it.
Speaker 1: If they send something to us, we have to take
Speaker 1: such good care of it, we have to return it.
Speaker 1: And we'd all be like okay, okay, okay, you know,
Speaker 1: like like trying to be just the best the best girls,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, and return everything pristine so
Speaker 1: that they would lend again because the show really needed it, right,
Speaker 1: which you know, I think in some ways was great
Speaker 1: training because she already had been through it and could
Speaker 1: could be an example to us of how to make
Speaker 1: those relationships. Like in the olden days, we would go
Speaker 1: to fashion week, which was it wasn't everyone and their
Speaker 1: brother like it is now, right, would just be us.
Speaker 1: And I remember spending a whole day just going from
Speaker 1: like this show, that that show, to this show to
Speaker 1: that show, and it was so exciting because it was
Speaker 1: you know, back back, you know, when it was a
Speaker 1: Brian park and it was amazing and you were just
Speaker 1: trying to be there for the designers so that maybe
Speaker 1: when you called them and asked for something, they might
Speaker 1: send it, right, like trying to make did a relationship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it works great because the show was on at that
Speaker 1: point right right, So yes, it worked really well. But
Speaker 1: also like for me, it was finding people that fit
Speaker 1: Charlotte's style and that fit my body because we were
Speaker 1: asking for sample sizes, right, which of course created its
Speaker 1: own stress. Sure, sample sizes are not easy, and in
Speaker 1: the two thousands back I was started a while ago,
Speaker 1: this is my problem on the podcast. I'd ramble. I
Speaker 1: would go to photo shoots and they would have literally
Speaker 1: just like white jeans, low slung white jeans, and I
Speaker 1: would just be trying to get them on. I couldn't
Speaker 1: get them on, and I'd just be like, you guys,
Speaker 1: could you possibly get an airline screwed? Like anything? And
Speaker 1: I would feel so bad, you know, it's terrible. It
Speaker 1: was very stressful. It was very stressful. The nineties, the
Speaker 1: late nineties is when we started the show. It was
Speaker 1: really hard because there there was just like the look,
Speaker 1: you know, there wasn't a lot of variety, you know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, of course, and now I feel like
Speaker 1: it's much better. I don't feel like it's over. I
Speaker 1: think there is still, you know, a lot of pressure
Speaker 1: to be thin in the modeling world, for sure.
Speaker 2: We talk about this a lot here and good the
Speaker 2: rise of skinny talk, which I think is so toxic
Speaker 2: and terrible, and I mean, GLP ones have completely changed
Speaker 2: the conversation around body positivity. I think a lot of
Speaker 2: people in fashion are skinnier than they've ever been, and
Speaker 2: it's startling, and it means that it's self perpetuating because
Speaker 2: then the samples are smaller than the models stay small
Speaker 2: and it's hard to overcome that.
Speaker 1: It's so true, and I think it's also you know
Speaker 1: what people, I think sometimes people don't realize how hard
Speaker 1: it is as an actress to get the designers to
Speaker 1: dress you because they want to send you the sample
Speaker 1: sizes because they can't make everything in your size right.
Speaker 1: They just don't have the capacity to make like a
Speaker 1: one of a kind that they haven't made for the stores,
Speaker 1: and obviously you're trying to wear it before it's in
Speaker 1: the stores. It's like a whole kind of like domino
Speaker 1: effect of the way the fashion world works that you
Speaker 1: don't really know about until you get into it. But
Speaker 1: like just to get to borrow the clothes, you have
Speaker 1: to fit into them. Yeah, and it's not easy and
Speaker 1: depending on the designer, that's what it's so important for
Speaker 1: me to find, Like the Oscar de Lorenta samples fit me,
Speaker 1: thank god, yeah, thank god. And Rolf Lauren thank god
Speaker 1: because that was very Charlotte. So it worked out. But
Speaker 1: you know, those were relationships where once I figured that out,
Speaker 1: I had to really cultivate those and thank goodness, they
Speaker 1: were very kind to us and they still are. But
Speaker 1: back to the baget, because I haven't answered you yet,
Speaker 1: I asked Sarah Jessica, when did it begin that we
Speaker 1: could borrow the things from the people, the designer things,
Speaker 1: And the baguette was the first thing.
Speaker 4: Oh interesting, Yeah, so she I believe had a relationship,
Speaker 4: had bought one or maybe more so she already loved
Speaker 4: it that you know, she was very she would do
Speaker 4: her research right, so like she wouldn't just casually necessarily
Speaker 4: wear something right unless it was vintage, in which case
Speaker 4: she would casually wear it, but in terms of the.
Speaker 1: Current fashion trends at the time and now. Also she
Speaker 1: would really study, like you know, do I love it?
Speaker 1: What I carry it? Is it functional? All of her
Speaker 1: different things and the bagget was already something that she loved,
Speaker 1: and so maybe she brought her own one time and
Speaker 1: then we started that relationship and they would send her
Speaker 1: possibly thirty at a time, like I being like ah.
Speaker 1: And they were so beautiful, hand beaded, like sequin, beating, painting, velvet,
Speaker 1: everything you could imagine. And I also remember that we
Speaker 1: would have these coffee table scenes and or restaurant scenes
Speaker 1: before we had the coffee shop built, and we it
Speaker 1: would always be a struggle like where are we going
Speaker 1: to put the bags? Because you couldn't always hang your
Speaker 1: bag and true New Yorkers don't really hang their bag
Speaker 1: on the back of the chair. This was much discussed
Speaker 1: amongst us because me being a Southerner, I hang my
Speaker 1: bag on the back of the chair and they'd always
Speaker 1: be like Kristen, no, and I'd be like okay. So
Speaker 1: then you're like, where do I put it? Where do
Speaker 1: I put it?
Speaker 2: In?
Speaker 1: For Sir Jessica, she wanted people to see this beautiful,
Speaker 1: beautiful backget because what if she wasn't also in a
Speaker 1: walk and talk. So we have done scenes where the
Speaker 1: bag get is where the plate should be, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, And she would just make it work.
Speaker 2: It's true, I do kind of sort of can visualize that, right,
Speaker 2: But it works for Carrie, it totally works, and she
Speaker 2: would make it work. Miranda would never, but it works
Speaker 2: for Carrie.
Speaker 1: No, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And that was
Speaker 1: how that relationship began. And I feel like that was
Speaker 1: the beginning of people realizing that we that we could
Speaker 1: and wanted to, you know, have brands on and feature
Speaker 1: them and do justice to them and wear them, you know,
Speaker 1: beautifully hopefully, and all of that, which really changed the show,
Speaker 1: you know, because we can never, never have afforded all
Speaker 1: that stuff, not even now, you know. And just like that,
Speaker 1: I mean, we're still begging people regularly.
Speaker 2: Bag at beggars, bag at.
Speaker 1: Beggars, and or any any literally anything else.
Speaker 2: I always think of the scene when Carrie goes to
Speaker 2: La and tries to buy a fake bag get and
Speaker 2: then the guy takes her in the back and opens
Speaker 2: up like his trunk and it's just all these fake
Speaker 2: bag gets in plastic wrap, and she just recoils in
Speaker 2: horror and she's like, I can't see them like this
Speaker 2: sort of backtracks and it's like I can't do it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, And how wonderful because that's still such
Speaker 1: an issue totally.
Speaker 2: And I also think of that scene whenever I walk
Speaker 2: by the vendors on Fifth like selling like forty goy
Speaker 2: yard bags in like old plastic. It's like, yeah, it
Speaker 2: ruins the magic, it really does.
Speaker 1: But I mean, yeah, it's an interesting thing. It's an
Speaker 1: interesting thing, like like you know, it is obviously, I mean,
Speaker 1: we could go down a whole rabbit hole of you know,
Speaker 1: child labor and whatnot. But I mean it's it's a problem.
Speaker 1: But I also kind of understand because I feel like
Speaker 1: with social media, this whole kind of you know, like
Speaker 1: feeling the need to have all the things like ourmes
Speaker 1: and the you know, it's gotten so intense. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: kind of scary, So I get. I get that people
Speaker 1: would want to get one. However, wait that they could.
Speaker 2: What's the thing that all the thirteen year olds want
Speaker 2: right now? Like when I was thirteen and going.
Speaker 1: To Bob mitziause it was a cat spade purse, Like,
Speaker 1: what is the thing that's adorable? You know? My daughter, luckily,
Speaker 1: is not so much into that, which is probably why
Speaker 1: I was asking you. I mean, the look here in
Speaker 1: LA is largely, you know, really baggy pants, some of
Speaker 1: them a little lower than I would like, but still baggy,
Speaker 1: which is good, and like crop top and like jerseys
Speaker 1: you know, like that are tied up and sometimes they
Speaker 1: do cut things still, which I did as a youth
Speaker 1: as well. I think that's like evergreen and then I can't.
Speaker 1: I mean, there are there. I think at thirteen, the
Speaker 1: big fascination is will your mom let you wear heels?
Speaker 2: Oh? Interesting, that's so interesting you say that because a
Speaker 2: few weeks ago I went to have dinner with my
Speaker 2: mom at the Cherry, Netherland, and I walked in and
Speaker 2: there was like a line of twelve and thirteen year
Speaker 2: olds waiting to go down to the Doubles Club, which
Speaker 2: is like this subterranean, like very waspy club wow in
Speaker 2: the shary Netherlands, but it is known for becoming the
Speaker 2: location for boys schools and girls schools have their dances
Speaker 2: there Wow. And so these girls were all waiting to
Speaker 2: go in and they'll look for all of them. It
Speaker 2: was an exact uniform was tub top or tank top,
Speaker 2: mini skirt, this short and like high air Jordans high
Speaker 2: it was all sneakers. It was all sneakers and mini
Speaker 2: skirts and daughters like, oh, I guess they don't want
Speaker 2: heels anymore, because that.
Speaker 1: Was when I was that age.
Speaker 2: It was very much the garments for circuit and it
Speaker 2: was like how high a heel can you wear?
Speaker 1: Right? Right? I think it's both. I mean, I wonder
Speaker 1: if that's a New York City thing because they had
Speaker 1: to maybe potentially walk somewhere. I don't know, maybe not,
Speaker 1: maybe they took a number. Yeah, because my daughter definitely
Speaker 1: wears her high air Jordans and or her high Converse
Speaker 1: with dresses. That's it. There's no debate. But she's very tall,
Speaker 1: as I said, and I have absolutely said, I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry you cannot wear heels because my entire you know,
Speaker 1: ankles are pretty much ruined. So I'm not wanting her
Speaker 1: at thirteen to start down that road. You know, she
Speaker 1: has a few years. Yeah, give her a few years
Speaker 1: for sure. But there are some smaller girls who are
Speaker 1: her friends who do have I think that Kate Spade
Speaker 1: is still very desired. Oh that's nice to hear, like
Speaker 1: a little Kate Spade heel. You know what I'm saying,
Speaker 1: like kind of a cute Kate Spade hill, But yes,
Speaker 1: the miniskirt and the tube top and or tank. It's
Speaker 1: a situation, you know, it's a situation. Yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: no at my house, right, at least not at the
Speaker 1: same time. Right. So that's what I'm really trying to
Speaker 1: focus on. But okay, let's talk about I can't even
Speaker 1: decide which thing talk to you about, but I do
Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit more about the show
Speaker 1: and fashion and your relationship to the show and fashion,
Speaker 1: Like when did you start watching the show? Did you
Speaker 1: know your mom was on the show? When did you
Speaker 1: pay attention fashion wise? How in what order did those
Speaker 1: things happen? Good question?
Speaker 2: When I started watching the show, I don't remember when did.
Speaker 1: The show air? We started in ninety eight.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I think I started watching it a few
Speaker 2: years later, in like two thousand, when I would have
Speaker 2: been fifteen.
Speaker 1: Got it?
Speaker 2: And what did I respond to the most when I
Speaker 2: first started watching it?
Speaker 1: Fashion wise?
Speaker 2: I think even at fifteen and living in Los Angeles,
Speaker 2: I was captivated by the things Carrie war but absolutely
Speaker 2: found them to be ludicrous and not realistic. I was
Speaker 2: like a very unfun, pragmatic fifteen year old, and I
Speaker 2: was like, this is ridiculous. She can't wear this, she
Speaker 2: can't wear this tiny you know whatever. But I loved
Speaker 2: it and I found it delightful. I do have a
Speaker 2: very specific memory of watching the finale.
Speaker 1: Of Sex and the City.
Speaker 2: I had some girlfriends over to my stepfather's apartment in
Speaker 2: New York and we were all watching it together and
Speaker 2: my stepfather was sort of mystified and took our golden doodle, Jerry,
Speaker 2: for a walk and walked up past the restaurant we
Speaker 2: used to go to every Sunday night, Vico, and he
Speaker 2: was like, Oh, we couldn't come tonight because the girls
Speaker 2: are watching some show and her Vico is like, everybody
Speaker 2: inside watching this show.
Speaker 1: No one comes tonight.
Speaker 2: Like it was like the Super Bowl was the SADC finale?
Speaker 1: That's adorable, there really were, you know.
Speaker 2: I do miss those sort of cultural moments of that
Speaker 2: Streaming has taken away a little bit.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: There are shows that have a you know, a weekly
Speaker 2: rollout like and just like that. But I do miss
Speaker 2: that group anticipation around a viewing moment. And I do
Speaker 2: have a very specific memory of going to the shoot
Speaker 2: day that was at the Vogue offices at four Times Square.
Speaker 2: How great, which is very fun because then and fifteen
Speaker 2: years later I was working there and I just remember
Speaker 2: the row of desks along the wall where the fashion
Speaker 2: department used to sit. And I loved Carrie's outfit. I
Speaker 2: always loved Carrie's use of brooches.
Speaker 1: I thought, Carrie, did they love the brooches. Great brooch
Speaker 1: work from Carrie totally. They're still up to that brooch work.
Speaker 2: And in the Vogue Idea episode when she goes to
Speaker 2: meet with Enid, she is wearing this amazing I think
Speaker 2: it's a Vivian Westwood, Yes, pinstriped skirts suit org with
Speaker 2: a cameo broach and she looks fantastic.
Speaker 1: And that is a real dream outfit for me. Yep,
Speaker 1: exactly when I got married, Charlotte myself whichever got married too,
Speaker 1: that I was supposed to wear this approach that Bunny
Speaker 1: gave me, that we were supposed to think was hideous,
Speaker 1: and it turned it into this whole drama because it
Speaker 1: was really beautiful and Pat and Molly Molly Rogers, who
Speaker 1: was Pat's assistant the whole time and who is now
Speaker 1: our costume Designer on and just like that and also
Speaker 1: currently doing the Devil Worst partuct because I text her
Speaker 1: this morning and she was in fitting with n Hathaway,
Speaker 1: So then I had to text Sara Jessica. But I
Speaker 1: have an answer to something that you are going to
Speaker 1: bring up. But they all love brooches, Molly Southern also
Speaker 1: and Sarah Jessica. Again, this is about the craftmanship. I believe,
Speaker 1: you know, like to make a broach the traditional way
Speaker 1: is an artistry, and she has such appreciation of that.
Speaker 1: So I remember that this brooch that I wore, which
Speaker 1: I was supposed to complain about, that Bunny gave me,
Speaker 1: and I felt this pressure to wear it, et cetera,
Speaker 1: et cetera. It was gorgeous and so we had to
Speaker 1: cut all those lines. Oh my god, you know. And
Speaker 1: I still have it at home, which because it is
Speaker 1: gorgeous and it is do you wear it?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: I don't, because when I'm getting dressed, I don't think
Speaker 1: about like how creative can I be? I think how
Speaker 1: can I look nice and not call too much attention
Speaker 1: to myself? Those are my two considerations. Shouldn't saying like
Speaker 1: how did you both? But I should get those things
Speaker 1: out more often. You know, I should because I have them.
Speaker 1: I mean, maybe one day my daughter will like them.
Speaker 1: I don't know who knows, who knows? But okay, so
Speaker 1: let's go back to you. So you remember when your
Speaker 1: mom was doing the show and you went to the set,
Speaker 1: and what were your thoughts? Were you like, Wow, this
Speaker 1: is cool? Like what'd you think?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: I thought it was interesting.
Speaker 1: I thought it was cool.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a writer when I was very young,
Speaker 2: so I was very interested in I forget. I meant
Speaker 2: to rewatch the episode, but I forget how much carry
Speaker 2: is paid.
Speaker 1: I think it's four dollars a word. Yeah, I haven't
Speaker 1: written down here somewhere is it for fifty a ward?
Speaker 1: It's four dollars? Then she gets it up to four
Speaker 1: fifty a ward. Yes, what did you think of that?
Speaker 1: How reach?
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, it's by word interesting, I'm learning
Speaker 2: things right right? Also now laughable of four dollars a word?
Speaker 1: But what do you mean? It's just most people making two.
Speaker 2: Dollars or less a word, I would say at this point,
Speaker 2: and that's for print, for web, it's much less than that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's so said. But this is what I
Speaker 1: don't understand. I knew that there was a per word.
Speaker 1: You know, traditionally this is how writers were paid for
Speaker 1: magazines and whatnot. But are you is there also like
Speaker 1: a salary?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but what about like benefits?
Speaker 2: Well, if you're freelance writer, you're not getting benefits.
Speaker 1: But like one like in your previous incarnation when you
Speaker 1: were doing the weddings and the girl and the whatnot.
Speaker 2: Oh then I didn't Then I did not get paid
Speaker 2: any per word.
Speaker 1: I was just had a salary. Okay, but did you
Speaker 1: get benefits?
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, okay, oh yeah no.
Speaker 1: If there's then there's no per word. Got it, got it?
Speaker 2: Got it? Just on staff and you're writing whatever you're
Speaker 2: told to.
Speaker 1: Got it.
Speaker 2: But if you're a freelancer and you're being paid per
Speaker 2: word like Carrie was, I mean, people back in the
Speaker 2: day used to make a lot per word, you know.
Speaker 2: Michael Lewis apparently would make ten dollars a word Vanity Fair,
Speaker 2: Plum Sykes used to make six dollars a word at Vogue. Wow,
Speaker 2: plump sex was in our movie. Yes, I remember that.
Speaker 2: I love that scene. I have to say I rewatched
Speaker 2: that on a plane a year or two ago, and
Speaker 2: It was such a delight because it really was a
Speaker 2: very accurate representation of a Bogue shoot. No way to
Speaker 2: have Patrick and Andrea and Plumb likeay.
Speaker 1: It really was.
Speaker 2: Very much what really goes on. And you don't see
Speaker 2: that depicted that often. That's so true.
Speaker 1: I mean we knew all of them separately, just from
Speaker 1: the world. And I was one time in Aspen. We
Speaker 1: used to do the Comedy Festival. The HBO Comedy Festival
Speaker 1: was an Aspen every year, and Andre was there for
Speaker 1: some reason, which was fantastic, and we went on a
Speaker 1: the horse drawn sleigh ride together up the mountain in
Speaker 1: this crazy snowstorm, and of course he had his fur
Speaker 1: had on in his fur and you know, he was
Speaker 1: just so much delight, exactly doctor Chevago, because Andre lived big,
Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, it was like he created his own
Speaker 1: atmosphere that he desired. He was such a joy and
Speaker 1: so kind, so kind. And that day that we filmed
Speaker 1: because Willie and I I believe are in that scene
Speaker 1: watching rest and I remember that our wardrobes had to
Speaker 1: be approved by Funny Miss Wintour.
Speaker 2: Likes to get her hand up in the mix exactly.
Speaker 1: We were like anything she wants, anything, she wants. She
Speaker 1: and Michael Patrick worked very closely together and that's probably
Speaker 1: why it is accurate. And then I remember when Plumb
Speaker 1: got there. She walked over and she was like, oh, yes,
Speaker 1: this is fine, and I was like, thank god, thank
Speaker 1: god you guys. I'm okay. I'm okay in my very
Speaker 1: tight roder skirt.
Speaker 2: Another scene I remember loving even as a teenager with
Speaker 2: Enid was when Enid and Carrie run into each other
Speaker 2: and at the restaurant. At the restaurant, I forget what happens,
Speaker 2: but she says something about like having it all, and then.
Speaker 1: She oh, no, she says, you can't have it all.
Speaker 2: So I have a boyfriend who you know, I'm above
Speaker 2: fourteenth Street and he has a different girlfriend below fourteenth Street.
Speaker 2: You can't have it all. And then she goes to
Speaker 2: Carrie's book party and runs into the boyfriend with his
Speaker 2: other girlfriend because they're in no man's land. And I
Speaker 2: thought that was a great I remember thinking, it's it's true,
Speaker 2: you can't really have it all, and you do sacrifice things,
Speaker 2: and it'll be interesting to see what I choose to sacrifice.
Speaker 1: Oh, that's interesting. So like, as a personal point of reference,
Speaker 1: you thought, oh, this will be interesting.
Speaker 2: I just I think it's nice to be reminded. I
Speaker 2: think I grew up during a period a sort of
Speaker 2: post Gloria steinem everyone women can have whatever they want moment,
Speaker 2: and so I was raised thinking that was the case,
Speaker 2: and it was helpful to be reminded that mathematically it
Speaker 2: just isn't possible.
Speaker 1: I think that's fantastic. Yeah, I think that by the
Speaker 1: time we made that show, who knows where I was
Speaker 1: at with that personally. But I also I grew up
Speaker 1: with Miss magazine on our coffee table. You know, it
Speaker 1: was very important. But I also was surrounded in the
Speaker 1: South by a very different reality than what was presented
Speaker 1: in your magazine, right, So I was already in this
Speaker 1: very you know, strange like what is true? I don't
Speaker 1: know what is true. I guess you find what you
Speaker 1: would like to be true and created or moved or
Speaker 1: whatever it is, which is what I did. But still
Speaker 1: I do think there was definitely a pervasive message around
Speaker 1: I feel like the eighties, the late eighties, early nineties
Speaker 1: of like you can have it all. You know, you're
Speaker 1: going to be a boss baby, and you're gonna have
Speaker 1: your babies on your hip. From all those magazine shoots
Speaker 1: where the bottles would other babies or a baby, a
Speaker 1: P ten baby, I don't know, on their hip, like
Speaker 1: it was one of these baby. Do you remember that
Speaker 1: it was a lot and then occasionally their own baby,
Speaker 1: and you were just like, wow, that is so impressive.
Speaker 1: But I mean not easy and very rare, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think by the point that we made that show,
Speaker 1: we all really knew that because we were doing the
Speaker 1: show and it was really all consuming in so many ways,
Speaker 1: and everyone was, you know, trying to live their lives
Speaker 1: at the same time, and it was not easy at all.
Speaker 1: So I think that's probably why that show got written.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I haven't gotten to that point in rewatching.
Speaker 1: But I love that you remember it. I love that
Speaker 1: you remember it, and I love that your mom has
Speaker 1: been in the role of ing it over the years.
Speaker 1: It's so great and so fascinating. And sometimes I feel
Speaker 1: and I wonder how you feel being over there in
Speaker 1: the world of the real Vogue. Sometimes I feel like
Speaker 1: we almost have to sugarcut the harshness of that business,
Speaker 1: you know, like sugarcoat I should have said, or undercut
Speaker 1: whatever less in the what we're actually saying, which is
Speaker 1: it's kind of brutal. Yeah, do you feel that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I feel like I work in the
Speaker 2: fashion business, but I also very much feel like I work.
Speaker 1: In the news business.
Speaker 2: And because I'm doing the website and our news might
Speaker 2: be Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey went on a dinner date,
Speaker 2: but it's still news, and it's still timely, and those
Speaker 2: kind of urgent, reactive moments are very can be quite
Speaker 2: stressful and feel like you have to.
Speaker 1: Be constantly on and responding.
Speaker 2: So I do feel like it's not this sort of
Speaker 2: the just the joy of the Vogue closet kind of thing,
Speaker 2: which doesn't really exist.
Speaker 1: Let's discuss let's discuss the Vogue closet, because at one
Speaker 1: point where it wasn't your podcast set in a Vogue closet,
Speaker 1: which I was like, I don't think that that's well, that.
Speaker 2: Actually is the Vogue closet, And they did design it
Speaker 2: to be a place where we could film interviews, which
Speaker 2: I thought was a great idea because you have the
Speaker 2: wall of shoes behind you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's beautiful.
Speaker 2: I say, it doesn't really exist in the way that
Speaker 2: we see it depicted on screen, because there's not tons
Speaker 2: of clothes there that just live there. Clothes are called
Speaker 2: in for shoots, they are you know, under lock and key.
Speaker 2: The Manolo's actually are kept behind locked doors, and there
Speaker 2: are shoes that live there permanently because often for a
Speaker 2: shoot you'll call in close but a stylist will say, oh,
Speaker 2: but I just need a classic Manolo BB pump to
Speaker 2: go with it, so they'll unlock the Manola cabinet and
Speaker 2: take out the BB pump. But no, I mean the
Speaker 2: closet is a very controlled space that's really a way
Speaker 2: station between shoot and going back to wherever they were
Speaker 2: borrowed from.
Speaker 1: Got it? And someone's keeping track?
Speaker 2: Oh yes, it's a whole team of women and gentlemen
Speaker 2: keeping track.
Speaker 1: Do you think, like if you think about the Devilwar's
Speaker 1: product and the the you know, pressure on all of
Speaker 1: those assistant girls, yeah, to look a certain way and
Speaker 1: also to be you know, beyond excellent at their jobs.
Speaker 1: How do you how do you? I mean, I know
Speaker 1: it was a comedy, obviously I should should say that,
Speaker 1: but how do you think about that in terms of
Speaker 1: your own experience?
Speaker 2: Well, I will say that I never had the privilege
Speaker 2: of being Anna's assistant, so I don't have a first
Speaker 2: hand experience of that, but I do find just judging
Speaker 2: from Anna's to assistance right now, Sammy and they both
Speaker 2: look great.
Speaker 1: And have fun with that.
Speaker 2: You know, is today is wearing a bright red shirt
Speaker 2: dress and she looks fabulous and she has fun with it.
Speaker 2: So I don't feel that the pressure and this stress
Speaker 2: of having to look a certain way is what's dictating
Speaker 2: that's how they're dressing. I also think that things are
Speaker 2: very different at Vogue now than they were twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 2: I mean, I remember when I started fifteen years ago,
Speaker 2: everyone was in high heels all day, and now you're
Speaker 2: hard pressed to find someone wearing heels.
Speaker 1: It's just a different environment. Yeah, I definitely content ask
Speaker 1: when we went, I was surprised. I think we saw
Speaker 1: maybe a few people, but definitely there was a sense
Speaker 1: of fun with fashion. There was a whole variety of
Speaker 1: what people were wearing in the building.
Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Nicole Phelps, Global director of Vogue, Runway in
Speaker 3: Vogue Business and host of the run Through podcast. Every Tuesday,
Speaker 3: join me for the latest fashion news, like the shakeups
Speaker 3: of Balenciaga and Dior, and what's trending in Paris and Milan.
Speaker 3: You'll also hear interviews with top designers from Mark Jacobs
Speaker 3: and Rick Owens to Daniel Roseberry, Sarah Burton and many more.
Speaker 3: On Thursdays, Chloe Maall, editor of Vogue dot Com and
Speaker 3: cho Minnati, head of editorial Content at British Vogue, take
Speaker 3: you behind the scenes at Vogue and share their thoughts
Speaker 3: on fashion through the lens of culture. You'll hear interviews
Speaker 3: with some of your favorite stars like Julianne Moore, Pharrell Williams,
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Speaker 1: First of all, I just want to tell you what
Speaker 1: I was texting Molly Dodger's are costume designer and Sarah
Speaker 1: Jeska about is the vintage chanel? Yes? Yes, it's a repeat,
Speaker 1: right it's not. Oh, there's a lot of debate. I
Speaker 1: know that it looks like it is and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of a lot of confusion online about it. So
Speaker 1: she wore this pink version back in the first show,
Speaker 1: and then this version she wore and just like that
Speaker 1: is purple. So it's not that Sarah Jessica went to
Speaker 1: her archives and got it out, because I think we
Speaker 1: were already in the midst of shooting and she didn't
Speaker 1: have time. I think that Chanelle sent it or Molly
Speaker 1: found it. That was the thing where Molly's fitting in
Speaker 1: Hathaway and I couldn't bother her. She she apologizes, but
Speaker 1: you know they Molly and Danny are costume designers. They
Speaker 1: work for six months before we get going, and they
Speaker 1: go to vintage stores and you know, England and France
Speaker 1: and Palm Beach and you know wherever right, and they
Speaker 1: find all kinds of random things. So I think Mollie
Speaker 1: found it somewhere and remembered the other one because she
Speaker 1: remembers everything. So she brought it and she asked, Sir Jessica,
Speaker 1: will you wear this as a callback? So you are
Speaker 1: a callback? Then an actual rewaar was that online? Everybody
Speaker 1: was like because also I think it has a logo
Speaker 1: and a different place on the back. Funny, I know,
Speaker 1: but you know the exactly they're on it. Okay, they're
Speaker 1: on it. So I had to check in with Sir
Speaker 1: Jeska and she said No, it was the closest we
Speaker 1: could find. Oh that's so funny. Yes, but she didn't
Speaker 1: go and rummage into her archive. I think sometimes she
Speaker 1: goes and gets things from her archive in advance, like,
Speaker 1: for instance, the Vivian Westwood wedding dress to wear to
Speaker 1: the met Ball, when we know that there's a big
Speaker 1: plot point where she has to get something. I think
Speaker 1: she got the was it. I can't remember the huge
Speaker 1: millful dress. You know, Yes, she got that pair of
Speaker 1: new right, Like, if there's something like that, she will
Speaker 1: go and get it out. But I don't think this
Speaker 1: Chanelle was that. I think this Chanelle was molly up
Speaker 1: to her tricks and Sir Jeska going on with it
Speaker 1: and it was a joy to see. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: My going out at night outfit was really fun to create.
Speaker 1: Oh my God, made me laugh so much.
Speaker 2: Thank you because I loved you and Harry together and
Speaker 2: it completely I really feel for parents trying to go out.
Speaker 1: I ride right now. Oh yeah, and can you imagine
Speaker 1: like also the work pressure, you know, which probably might
Speaker 1: feel I don't know. I sometimes feel the work pressure,
Speaker 1: though not in the way of like you're actually selling
Speaker 1: art after hours. You know what I'm saying, like, that's
Speaker 1: a very specific thing. So this was really fun because
Speaker 1: we knew it was coming. We were, you know, working
Speaker 1: on it for a while. This was our costume department
Speaker 1: at it's best, where they're mixing and matching pieces. It
Speaker 1: looks like it's one outfit, but it's totally every single
Speaker 1: piece is a different designer. I've got my little tiny chanel,
Speaker 1: very impractical but adorable bag slung across me so that
Speaker 1: I don't have to put it down, right. I have
Speaker 1: the Galliano may Marcella of course, which'll have a housing right.
Speaker 1: I've worn it many times. It is a okay, a
Speaker 1: dream right. And we were a little concerned about the cleavage.
Speaker 1: So at one point Molly wanted to put some chiffon
Speaker 1: across the top and we played with that, but then
Speaker 1: it kind of messed with the silhouette, so we took
Speaker 1: it off and kept it pure. I've got an Achris
Speaker 1: skirt on. I have Oh do you know Brioni Jeweler.
Speaker 1: She sent me that beautiful it's like her rosette necklace
Speaker 1: to die for. And then we needed a little short bolero,
Speaker 1: so Christian Siriano made me a little short Bilero and
Speaker 1: Molly went and picked the fabric, which was perfect, so sweet. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was it was It was such a creation,
Speaker 1: and I had to wear it through so many different
Speaker 1: scenes and we would, you know, take the jacket up,
Speaker 1: you know, and then I have to walk out in
Speaker 1: the morning and you know, smear my eye makeup and everything.
Speaker 1: But it was a good time and everything stayed intact.
Speaker 1: I was slightly worried that something was going to happen
Speaker 1: to that very expensive necklace and that dance sequence, but
Speaker 1: it did not. We made it through with maybe a
Speaker 1: few drinks spilled on the outfit, but that's nothing we
Speaker 1: couldn't fix, right, Okay, So then this is the most
Speaker 1: interesting thing. You say, your favorite outfits from the first show.
Speaker 1: And no one in my life has ever sent me
Speaker 1: so many of Charlotte's lingerie looks. I love Charlotte's nineties.
Speaker 2: I have such specific memories of being like, oh, I
Speaker 2: guess you can wear pretty things to bed because I
Speaker 2: like button down, like I like like what I love Lucy,
Speaker 2: what Lucille and Lucy and DESI would wear to bed?
Speaker 1: Me too, Yes, me too. I wish Charlotte Charlotte wears Yeah, totally, totally.
Speaker 1: I mean, this thing, oh my god. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't know who made it. I think it was like
Speaker 1: not a great designer. I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings,
Speaker 1: but it was something like you know when Charlotte when
Speaker 1: we go to Atlantic City and I get that TACKI
Speaker 1: dress in the in the store. In this case, you know,
Speaker 1: it was like that, like when Charlotte is trying to
Speaker 1: be sexy or what she thinks of as sexy, and
Speaker 1: it's way outside her normal purview. That's what this seathrew
Speaker 1: thing is. And I remember being scared out of my
Speaker 1: wits to film that scene and to walk out in
Speaker 1: this outfit and very stressed about what underwear to wear
Speaker 1: underneath it. Well, because it see through. I was like
Speaker 1: calling my manager, like what should I do? You can
Speaker 1: kind of see my breasts, Like, oh, I'm scared out
Speaker 1: of my mind. So I mean, I look at it
Speaker 1: now and I'm like, that's not really so much of
Speaker 1: a thing, but at the time it seemed like it. Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: Charlotte's Nightties.
Speaker 2: And I have to give credit here when our producer
Speaker 2: emailed me and said, you need to choose your top
Speaker 2: ten favorite Carrie and Charlotte looks. I immediately took out
Speaker 2: the bat phone to two of my best friends who
Speaker 2: are encyclopedic academics of the SATC Cannon, And immediately my
Speaker 2: friend parents sent me like Charlotte's nightties like fourteen images
Speaker 2: and oh yeah, so that was and something I did love,
Speaker 2: but I'm not sure I would have thought of that
Speaker 2: without that.
Speaker 1: Tell her thank you, Tell me, thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: My there's this one from first season which I think
Speaker 1: is just like a you know, department store, possibly possibly
Speaker 1: like not La Perloa because we couldn't afford it, but
Speaker 1: maybe like Notori. We did wear a fair amount of Notry.
Speaker 1: And then we get into the vintage look, which at
Speaker 1: a certain point in the Tray relationship, I do actually
Speaker 1: have vintage because I was trying to pretend that I
Speaker 1: was Elizabeth Taylor and count on a Hotton roof right,
Speaker 1: which works for so many different ways.
Speaker 2: And then is a foreshadowing of the King Charles Spaniel.
Speaker 1: All connected, yes, And then we did discuss the beautiful Westwood.
Speaker 1: Sarah has such a great history of wearing Westwood, and
Speaker 1: I think wears it so so beautifully. I always love
Speaker 1: it any Westwood time. Oh my god, then we have
Speaker 1: this look. Now, this would be one of the times
Speaker 1: where I would have been like, oh, you know, like
Speaker 1: have a very Charlotte type reaction, but this woman can
Speaker 1: pull it off.
Speaker 2: These hot pants with this newsboy cap and the bag yett.
Speaker 1: It was. It's just one of those.
Speaker 2: Er carry looks where you're like, this is ridiculous and
Speaker 2: just exactly what we want.
Speaker 1: And also I don't think you have it in here.
Speaker 1: But do you remember the tiny green skirt with a
Speaker 1: little fluff frill on the back.
Speaker 2: Yes, it had a little tail, like a little feather.
Speaker 1: Concerned, I was like, oh god, she's gonna be on
Speaker 1: the streets, and that she's gonna be okay, no way.
Speaker 1: I have a really good memory of this Miranda look.
Speaker 1: This Miranda look is you know, a a a one
Speaker 1: of the Halloween costumes that people sometimes wear, which I love.
Speaker 1: And this is when I think we're in Brian Park,
Speaker 1: the actual park, and she's wearing this and Sarah Jessica's
Speaker 1: wearing basically a Heidi outfit. Oh yes, it's true. Do
Speaker 1: you remember she has like pink cheeks and she might
Speaker 1: have pretend freckles even like She's so ahead of her time.
Speaker 1: And I'm wearing like a bucket hat, which is not
Speaker 1: my favorite, but Pat was brillianta hats Like Pat would
Speaker 1: have a theme and like a vision, and then we
Speaker 1: would all be part of it, and you just had
Speaker 1: tod of like lift through it. And I remember having
Speaker 1: one of the like a little Charlotte type speech, like
Speaker 1: where I go on some kind of a rant, and
Speaker 1: I had Cynthia in this one outfit on one side
Speaker 1: and Sarah in the Heidi on the other side, and
Speaker 1: I remember just breaking into giggles, like I just couldn't focus.
Speaker 1: I just was like, I don't know where to look.
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna look at Cam because I don't know
Speaker 1: where to look. It makes me laugh. But you know,
Speaker 1: this is what the show is great at, is just
Speaker 1: being creative and thinking outside the box. And I give
Speaker 1: so much credit to Pat and to our directors and
Speaker 1: executive producers for allowing us to do so truly right,
Speaker 1: because I mean it all worked in the end and
Speaker 1: it was part of the fun, right completely.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Okay, here we have Sarah in the Dior by Galliano.
Speaker 2: Everyone talks about this dress, but I do feel like
Speaker 2: it's taken on a new life of its own with
Speaker 2: Jenna or Tago Worerett and I just have to say,
Speaker 2: you know, as someone who works in print media, print
Speaker 2: is not dead.
Speaker 1: It's on that dress, thank god, right, thank god. And
Speaker 1: I remember this at the time. This was a special
Speaker 1: dress for a special scene where they really planned ahead,
Speaker 1: and you know, there's so much thought that Sarah, Jessica,
Speaker 1: Pat and Bally would put into kind of those special moments,
Speaker 1: and they that this dress might have come in early,
Speaker 1: and then they save it. They kind of hot try
Speaker 1: to hide it, but you know, they always need things
Speaker 1: for shoots, so then they have to let it go.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, oh, I hope they send it
Speaker 1: your dress back. Oh I hope they send that dress
Speaker 1: and let us keep it long enough. And then when
Speaker 1: Jenna Ortega wore it, it was incredible. And we discussed
Speaker 1: this to somebody on our recent press press tour and
Speaker 1: Sara Jessica was very much a fan, which was so nice.
Speaker 1: We have all the important things except for the hat.
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk about the hat really briefly? Sure?
Speaker 2: I love this hat because I'm I'm very into sun
Speaker 2: protection and I respect that Carrie leaned into Gingham for
Speaker 2: this good call.
Speaker 1: I feel the same way, and it goes so perfectly
Speaker 1: with the Aussie Clark. I think that people are so
Speaker 1: strange that they want to criticize this. Yes, I find
Speaker 1: that wacky, like why not?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: Let what she wants?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Yes, it's fun. I agree. I agree. I'm happy that
Speaker 1: you like it. You have been such a joy, Chloe.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much Christmas.
Speaker 2: It's such a treat.
Speaker 1: Okay, bye bye