1 00:00:06,600 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: A night of crafting, TV, painting, selfies, videos, tiktoks. It's 2 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: a sleepover, so much fun? How did everything go sideways? 3 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 1: Abigail and Liberty The next morning, they think it's a 4 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: great idea to go for a trail hike. Take a 5 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: listen to this. When did you realize something was not 6 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 1: right at all? Well, our whole family was out there looking. 7 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: We all laughed. Tara, my daughter went straight over there. 8 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: Derek was there. My other son come pulling in as 9 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: I was leaving, and he said, what are you doing. 10 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: I said, We're gonna go look for the girls. So 11 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: he jumped in the car with me. We drove. If 12 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: they would have decided to walk home, we drove both 13 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: directions that they would have gone, both routes. We got there. 14 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: We had six cars there. We were taking over everything. 15 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: We split up. We walked all the trails. Cody and 16 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: Kelsey went across those addition to the houses up. There 17 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: were the sheriffs there yet, not yet. By this time 18 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: it was a little after five. Was it getting dark now? 19 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 1: Not yet? It wasn't, but I knew it was going 20 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: And I was on the phone most of the time 21 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: with At and t trying to get them to ping 22 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,960 Speaker 1: her phone, and they won't, They won't do it. Can 23 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: you just feel that desperation just creeping in? You were 24 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: hearing who I now consider to be a friend, Becky Patty. 25 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: This is Liberty's grandmother who desperately went searching for her 26 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: girl and of course the bestie, Abigail. But they couldn't 27 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 1: find them anyone anywhere. And me right now in addition 28 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 1: to an all star panel, is Becky Patty. Becky, thank 29 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 1: you for being with us, Thank you for inviting me. Guys, 30 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: of course, we are talking about two beautiful girls that 31 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 1: first went missing in a small town of Delphi, and 32 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 1: in the last days we believe there may be a 33 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:26,240 Speaker 1: significant development. But first listen to this. I think they 34 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 1: were in pretty much belief that it was their children. 35 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 1: But when you hear from an officials, it's still a 36 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 1: little just still, it hits home. Twice. One of the 37 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: hundreds of volunteer searchers found the bodies of Libby German 38 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 1: and Abbey Williams in a wooded area near Deer Creek. 39 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: It is an area accessible only by foot or on horse, 40 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: well off the popular trails. The thirteen year olds were 41 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: hiking dozens of police are now checking hundreds of leads. 42 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: We are using resources from all the way from rolle Fort, 43 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,080 Speaker 1: Wayne and the southern state or the southern part of 44 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: the state's police state troopers. We will stay on the 45 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 1: job until it's done. Yes, and they're still on the 46 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: job with no resolution. Let me introduce you an all 47 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: star panel joining us in addition with me, Ashley Wilcot 48 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: Judge Trial while your anchor Court TV at Ashley Wilcot 49 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,679 Speaker 1: dot com. Renowned New York psychologists joining me from Manhattan, 50 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: Karen Start at Karen Start dot com with the see 51 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: forensics expert and the director of the Cold Case Research Institute, 52 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum. She and Ashley have walked the trails, seeing 53 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: the scene, as have many of us, trying to find answers. 54 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: No way could we anticipate what has happened in the 55 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: last days. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, Joseph Scott Morgan, 56 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and starvar 57 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: brand new hit Poisonous Liaisons on the Street Crime Network 58 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:04,360 Speaker 1: to Alexis trust Crimoline dot Com investigative reporter Alexis, how 59 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 1: long has it been since Abby Williams, Abigail and Libby 60 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: Liberty German went missing. How long four years? They went 61 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,839 Speaker 1: missing on Valentine's Day of twenty seventeen. It is four 62 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 1: years since then and no arrest Miss Patty. Four years 63 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 1: have passed, and it seemed so many times like it 64 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 1: was this close. Especially because of this take a listen 65 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:32,800 Speaker 1: to our friends at People magazine. Police have announced that 66 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 1: a widely circulated photo of the main suspect and a 67 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: double homicide of two Indiana teenagers was taken by one 68 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,280 Speaker 1: of the victims before she was killed. In February fourteenth. 69 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: The bodies of Liberty German and Abigail Williams were found 70 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: one day after they were reported missing. At a press 71 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: conference on Wednesday, police announced that Liberty not only took 72 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: the photo of the mail suspect, but she also recorded 73 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 1: a video moments before her death that includes audio of 74 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 1: a man talking, although officials are unsure whether a voice 75 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: belongs to the suspect. That's right, they actually manage to 76 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: get video and we think sound of their killer. Think 77 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: about it, a little girl thirteen and fourteen years old 78 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: with the wherewithal to actually get sound and a photo 79 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: of the purp but still despite it all, Take a 80 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: listen to w x I n TV. Yes today, the 81 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 1: data that one tip is going to pop in on 82 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: an email someplace and going to change the course of 83 00:05:35,120 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 1: the investigation. I certainly hope. So. Three years later, Indiana 84 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: State Police is Superintendent Doug Carter explains investigators are still 85 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: looking for that one good tip, looking for that one 86 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: good tip. To Becky, Patty, this is Libby's grandmother, and 87 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: you can find out so much more about the case 88 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: at Abbey and Libby Tip at c ac SHRF dot com. Becky, 89 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: can you believe four years have passed there's still no resolution? No. 90 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: Some days it seems like yesterday. Other times it seems forever. 91 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: In the beginning, we truly thought that this was going 92 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: to be solved in a matter of week, and we're 93 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: still waiting. You know, when you and I met and 94 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: we were talking at Crime Con, it just felt like 95 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: it was just on the cusp, the cusp of finding 96 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: out who took the lives of these two little girls. 97 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: Years pass, four years and amazingly and the last days 98 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 1: is there a crack in the case. Take a listen 99 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: to our friends Scott Swan WTR thirteen, Our cut fifteen. 100 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: We are learning new disturbing details tonight about what investigators 101 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: say happened to a nine year old girl who disappeared 102 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: Monday night in Lafayette. That girl's mother reported her missing, 103 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: and within an hour police talk with witnesses and tracked 104 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: her down at a neighbor's home. Now, according to court documents, 105 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: that neighbor, forty two year old James Chadwell the second, 106 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: is accused of forcing the girl into the basement, where 107 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: he assaulted her and threatened to kill her if she 108 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: screamed or told anyone. There are people out there that 109 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: will victimize children, and this is a perfect example of 110 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 1: this happening. So take the time to talk to your children. 111 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: But I'd sell my keys, don't go outside unless a 112 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 1: doll I'll here with you. I don't, I don't. I 113 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: don't trust so many people. And this is exact reason 114 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: why that nine year old girl is in the hospital 115 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: right now. Chadwell is in the typical New County jail. 116 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 1: That's right, This guy, James Chadwell the second, age forty two, 117 00:07:55,880 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 1: behind bars without bond right now, straight out, Becky Patty, 118 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: this is Libby's grandmother. Remember her describing that feeling she 119 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: got when the girls didn't come home, and they weren't 120 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: at the spot where they were supposed to be picked up, 121 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: and they spend the whole night into the night, everybody 122 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: gathering together trying to find the girls. Becky, when you 123 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: heard about this nine year old little girl that lived 124 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: just a few miles away, what went through your mind? 125 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: I was the first thing I thought was, I was 126 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: very thankful that they found her alive. I could only 127 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: imagine what the parents were going through. So, you know, 128 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,520 Speaker 1: I'm thankful for what the police were quick and that 129 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: they were able to save her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, Guys, 130 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: we are talking about a potential break, a potential nial 131 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 1: break in the Delphi case of two little girls, Abby 132 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: and Libby, Abigail and Liberty. Age is thirteen and fourteen 133 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: the Asia My Twins right now. Again, thank you for 134 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: being with us here at Flux Nation in series one 135 00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: eleven with me Libby's grandmother who was out that night 136 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 1: desperately searching for the girls. In the last days, a 137 00:09:26,080 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: major break. Straight out to you, Cheryl McCollum, forensics expert. 138 00:09:32,200 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 1: It's just basically down the street, It's not far away. 139 00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: At all, what is the likelihood I mean, no, there's 140 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: not been an official connection, but Cheryl, please, what is 141 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: the likelihood that a grown man, a white male, just 142 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: about I think twenty miles away with molest a nine 143 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 1: year old girl that look, the guy looks very similar, 144 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: Nancy case, you can't ignore it. Law enforcement has already 145 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:09,160 Speaker 1: said there's civil you know, several similar factors. One thing 146 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,680 Speaker 1: we've got to look at, though, is the sex Offender Registry. 147 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: There's one hundred and fifty eight registered SECT defenders just 148 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:21,439 Speaker 1: in Lafayette, just in Lafayette. So this guy's not by himself. 149 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: Wait a minute, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait. The 150 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: sex offender Registry has already been gone through with a 151 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: fine tooth comb, has it not. Ashley Willcott Absolutely, yeah, 152 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: So the Sex Abist Registry is one of the first 153 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: things that law enforcement that investigators are going to look at. 154 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:43,959 Speaker 1: And let me say this, Nancy, as a person, you 155 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: or I can look at it. You can go online 156 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: and pull it up and see who's in your neighborhood, 157 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 1: who's around So that information, thankfully public information for a reason. 158 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: So I would believe that's one of the very first 159 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,320 Speaker 1: things that they did. But let me just say this, 160 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: would it be the man next door? One hundred percent? 161 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: Because statistically, so many times perpsed like this are people 162 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 1: that we know that live close. You know, I want 163 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 1: to go back to you, Cheryl McCollum. Isn't it true 164 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: that law enforcement has already gone through the sex offender 165 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: Registry and those areas. Yes, But what I was trying 166 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: to say is not that they haven't gone through them. 167 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: The new gentleman in Lafayette. What I'm saying is he's 168 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: not unusual. One hundred and fifty eight registered. Those are 169 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: the people that we know of that have been captured 170 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: and convicted, not somebody, Cheryl. I know that, I know. 171 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: You know, Becky Patty, has law enforcement gone through Take three? 172 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 1: Take three? If this were baseball, Cheryl mccollumb, you be 173 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: out out. Becky Patty, has a law enforcement gone through 174 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:04,439 Speaker 1: the sex offender register street they're in Delphi and surrounding Delphi. 175 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: They told us that was one of the first things 176 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: that they did was go through that. But I'm not 177 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: sure this guy was on the red destree. I'm saying, 178 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: Becky Patty, You're absolutely correct. I don't know this guy 179 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 1: has a conviction alexus terrestrict. I haven't heard anything about 180 00:12:23,600 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: a conviction. And before you can get on the Sex 181 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:30,840 Speaker 1: Registry sex offender Registry, you have to have a conviction. 182 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 1: If this guy, James Chadwell the second doesn't have a conviction, 183 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: he's not on the registry and therefore would have not 184 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: he wouldn't have been on the radar of law enforcement. 185 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: Helped me, Alexis, I feel like I'm screaming in the wilderness. 186 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: He is not, as far as I know from the 187 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: arrest record that he has. He does have a rap sheet. 188 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: He he has been arrested. He has served time for 189 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: not for sex defenses, for drinking and dry driving, for trespassing. Nothing. Well, 190 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,600 Speaker 1: that's not going to lead on the sex offender registry. Okay. 191 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: If that landed you on the sex offender registry, half 192 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,480 Speaker 1: of America would be on the sex offender registry. If 193 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 1: you drink and drive, you end up on the sexualate 194 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 1: You know what, Becky, Patty, your insight is correct. This 195 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 1: guy was not on the sex offender Registry and therefore 196 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: I don't think they've looked at him yet because there 197 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,439 Speaker 1: was no reason to look. Adam, Becky, I agree. Another 198 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: thing to you, Joe Scott, Morgan, Professor Forensics, Joe Scott, 199 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 1: can we just be real in moment? I don't want 200 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,120 Speaker 1: to get to ahead of myself on this, but can 201 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,440 Speaker 1: we just talk about statistics which are not admissible in court? 202 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,800 Speaker 1: But we're not in court, Joe Scott, come the likely 203 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:53,439 Speaker 1: they've already been through the sex offender registry, They've looked 204 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: at those people, they've ouibied them, they've they've done so much, 205 00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: we're already investigating them. What's the likelihood this guy is 206 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: gonna pop up grabbing a little girl very similar in height, size, 207 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: appearance as Liberty, Germany. He's twenty miles away, Cheryl, isn't 208 00:14:17,640 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: it twenty miles away? Yes, twenty miles away? Likelihood? Morgan, Yeah, 209 00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: that's that's what I'm thinking when you begin to look 210 00:14:26,120 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: at probability here and kind of the profile that you're 211 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: meeting here with this fellow and his proximity. I kind 212 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:37,800 Speaker 1: of passed this out earlier, and I was looking at 213 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: the mileage precisely. We're talking eighteen miles. Nancy. You know 214 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,760 Speaker 1: where I live. We travel eighteen miles to go buy groceries. 215 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: Sometimes that's nothing. We had to go. We had to 216 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: go further than that, just to go to McDonald's. Yeah, 217 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: that was a big night. Okay, yeah. And the fact 218 00:14:55,400 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: that he has such proximity to this location. And let 219 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: me throw one more thing out at you and I'll, 220 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: you know, I'll see you back into the darkness here. 221 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: But what do we know about what do we know 222 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: about this fellow? So far, we've heard that she was 223 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: lured into a basement. Okay, yeah, you know what. Let's 224 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: go through the facts. Let's start at the beginning. I 225 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: like this terrest's shut crime online dot com invest to 226 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: get a reporter what happened to this nine year old 227 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: little girl? Not Liberty and Abbey, but then the new girl. 228 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 1: He was playing in her neighborhood and the neighbor said, 229 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: do you want to come in? Wait right there, right there, Jackie, 230 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: keep the list. You know, when you go to trial 231 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: and you want to show similar transaction, you have to 232 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: convince the judge. First, jury's not there, the jury's waiting 233 00:15:45,920 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: off somewhere. You do pre trial all the similarities and 234 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: all the reasons that this prior bad act should come 235 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,400 Speaker 1: in in the case in chief. Right there, little girl, 236 00:15:55,640 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: are you writing? Are you playing on your phone? Are 237 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: you actually okay? So, young girl number one similar physically 238 00:16:08,240 --> 00:16:16,080 Speaker 1: outside that's important. Victim outside outside, victim away from adults. 239 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:19,360 Speaker 1: And don't think the mom and dad were neglectful. She 240 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 1: had been outside what alexis twenty minutes maybe, and in 241 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: her own neighborhood. It's not like she was walking around 242 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 1: downtown at a stop sign, you know, just right outside 243 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: her house. Correct, Ye, just stepped away from her house, Okay, 244 00:16:32,280 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: outside away from adults. Okay, so secluded in a sense. 245 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: All right, then what happened? What time was it? What 246 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,040 Speaker 1: time was it? Alexis is the seven pm? Yes? Okay, 247 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 1: um into Becky, Patty, this is Libby's grandmother. What time 248 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 1: did you realize that something was wrong? What time of 249 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: the day was it? It was the afternoon, late afternoon, 250 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 1: five late afternoon, early evening. Okay, so I'm going to 251 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,560 Speaker 1: say what five to six? Well, we called, we called 252 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: law enforcement. Well I looked at my watch and it 253 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: was five twenty when I told my husband that we 254 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,560 Speaker 1: needed to call the police. But we knew and we 255 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: had been searching since. And what time is the year 256 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,120 Speaker 1: was it when they went? It was February thirteenth, feb 257 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: So it got dark early. Was it already dark? Was 258 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,960 Speaker 1: it getting dark at five pm? No, it wasn't, but 259 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: it was getting very close to start getting dark. That's 260 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: the reason I was. That's the reason we called law 261 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: enforcement at that time, near getting dark. Now this time 262 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:44,800 Speaker 1: of the year, around seven, it would be near getting 263 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:49,119 Speaker 1: dark both times. Sorry, Alexis, go ahead. So this man 264 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: sees her and says, come on inside my house. Do 265 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 1: you want to play with my puppies. She is nine 266 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: years old, and she she went in. He lured her 267 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,479 Speaker 1: into the house. So then this is where he attacks her. 268 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,479 Speaker 1: Suddenly he hits her on the head. He hits her 269 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: in the head so many times that it knocked her out, 270 00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,200 Speaker 1: and his dog, the dog that he lured her and therewith, 271 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: starts biting her. He then drags her down to the 272 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 1: basement basement of his house and he chains her up 273 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,879 Speaker 1: to a bed that he has down there, and that 274 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:29,399 Speaker 1: is when he starts assaulting her. Luckily, literally right in 275 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,440 Speaker 1: the middle of assaulting her, there are the knock on 276 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:47,200 Speaker 1: his door and it is the police Crime stories with 277 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, guys are talking about potentially a major break 278 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: in the case of Little Libby Liberty and Abby Abigail, 279 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,320 Speaker 1: who first go missing and then are found dead in 280 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,960 Speaker 1: a small town of Delphi. I'spen four years, no answers. 281 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:10,760 Speaker 1: We've been all over it to no Avail. Is there 282 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: a break? Now? You're telling me Alexis to Russia about 283 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: this nine year old little girl. It's a very very 284 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: disturbing story. I want you to take a listen to 285 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:26,359 Speaker 1: our cut fourteen. This is Dustin Grove, WTHR thirteen news 286 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:30,720 Speaker 1: our cut fourteen on a normally calm park court in Lafayette. 287 00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: It's quiet, it's quiet, our kids running around here and play. 288 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 1: The yellow tape is still up around this home. Police 289 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: parked to secure the scene and neighbors on edge after 290 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,400 Speaker 1: the discovery inside, and we're just sitting here going, oh 291 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: my god. When we found out that it was there 292 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,879 Speaker 1: was a little girl. Were yeah, inside we were. We 293 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:51,680 Speaker 1: were totally shocked, like, oh my god. That nine year 294 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,119 Speaker 1: old girl's mother reported her missing Monday night when she 295 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: didn't come home. Officers arrived, began looking through the neighborhood 296 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,600 Speaker 1: and eventually they ended up here at this house far away. 297 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: Police say they talked to the man who lives here, 298 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: then went in and found the missing girl with visible 299 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: signs of injury, including bruising on her body and an 300 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: injury on her lower leg consistent with a dog bite. 301 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: The girl went to the hospital and forty two year 302 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: old James Chadwell the second went to jail, arrested for 303 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: criminal confinement. We do believe that she's being held against 304 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 1: her will and sex and Aliston and chained to a 305 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: bed and bitten by a dog, a nine year old 306 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,359 Speaker 1: little girl. Okay, I want to figure out what that 307 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: does to a little girl for the rest of her life. 308 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: But I'm trying to figure out is there a connection 309 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 1: between this and the murderers of Abby and Libby. Karen 310 00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 1: starting your jump in, yeah, jump in, go. I think 311 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: one of the most important things that you've got to 312 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:53,240 Speaker 1: recognize here is that basement was pre set, the chains 313 00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: the bed, the chain on the door, or the chains 314 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: on the bed. The scene at Delphile was pre set 315 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: and pre selected. He walked Abbey and libby a half 316 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: a mile for a reason. He had pre selected that. 317 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: So again, when you're looking at suspectology, that should slap 318 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: you in the factor. Okay, stop right there, stop right there. 319 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,719 Speaker 1: Explain to me what you're saying to those that are 320 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,480 Speaker 1: not inside the investigation like many of us have been. 321 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: When you say he walked Abby and Libby half a 322 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: mile to a preset location, why do you say that? 323 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: And how do you know that he picked the bridge 324 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: from that bridge to where they were found was a 325 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: half a mile. He selected that from when they went 326 00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: down the embankment and they crossed Deer Creek, he selected 327 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: where they crossed. There's parts of that creek that go 328 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: up to your chest. Where they crossed was maybe ankle deep. 329 00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: He knew it, he was familiar. That was not happenstance. 330 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: There was a reason that he was able to take 331 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: two victims and they didn't run in separate directions. He 332 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,960 Speaker 1: probably most likely had some way to bound them with 333 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: this young lady. Again, in both scenes, it's daylight, other 334 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: adults are around. He takes great risk in what he's 335 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,920 Speaker 1: doing with private homes around. Other adults are around with 336 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: Abby and Libby. Other people were hiking and taking pictures 337 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: and out that day. So again he's a risk taker 338 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: that you know he's not going to let that stop him. 339 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: They're private homes that line the trail for part of 340 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,359 Speaker 1: the way in Delphi. Obviously there were private homes with 341 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 1: the nine year old victim. He pre selected what he 342 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:48,639 Speaker 1: was going to have in his basement. It wasn't like 343 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: he drugger in the house and assault on the sofa. 344 00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,959 Speaker 1: He took her into a basement that already had chains 345 00:22:55,119 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: and locks prepared for that victim to be bound. Karen 346 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: started joining me, new York psychologist joining us from Manhattan, 347 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: Karen Stark. I was going to originally ask you the 348 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 1: mindset of someone that would attack a young girl like this, 349 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: someone obviously so much weaker than themselves. It's an example 350 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:22,199 Speaker 1: I would give to juries. For instance, when you're walking 351 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 1: along a trail and you see a little rabbit hop 352 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: across your path, you may want to pat it or 353 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,960 Speaker 1: hold it, but your initial instinct as not to chase 354 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:36,639 Speaker 1: it down and bite its throat out and eat it. Okay, 355 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,480 Speaker 1: So there's a difference in the mindset. If I see 356 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,399 Speaker 1: a little girl, I might speak to her or think, oh, 357 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: she's such a sweet little girl. But I wouldn't think 358 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: of hitting her, sicking my dog on her to bite 359 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: her and hurt chaining her up and hurting her. But 360 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: as I was listening to Cheryl McCollum, I was thinking 361 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: about how people. We all do it. We do the 362 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: same things over and over, even if they're mistakes. We 363 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,679 Speaker 1: have habits, we have routines. And if what charl McCallum 364 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,720 Speaker 1: is saying is correct, why do people do the same 365 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: things over and over and not be able to break them. 366 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: I've seen it in criminals. They can't think up a 367 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: new m motor, simple up rundime method of operations. They 368 00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: do the same thing over and over and over again 369 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,479 Speaker 1: because they're saying that's something that they've imagined in their mind. Man, 370 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,720 Speaker 1: they've said all this up. As Charles said, So if 371 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: you think about somebody who prays on children and especially 372 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: really fight back. So it's a very easy targeting vistim 373 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,959 Speaker 1: and they have to trade out a certain way. They 374 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: need to have a certain spot. A lot of times 375 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: they want to pose a victim. If they're doing any 376 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: kind of sexual harm or physical abuse, it turns them on. 377 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: They're going to do it again. They're not necessarily created 378 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: with the way that they want to kill. Unfortunately, they 379 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: just let's get stuck in their minds and they repeat 380 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: it and repeat it, and it's in fact, this is 381 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: the person. And you're lucky enough to know that this 382 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: is the person that actually did harm the girls. I 383 00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: killed them. Then, even the fact that he says, you 384 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 1: know down there, I'm thinking to myself, you know, go 385 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: down there to Abby and Libby out of the way 386 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: in a place that he feels comfortable. You know, another 387 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,920 Speaker 1: issue here to you. Let me ask you this, Cheryl McCollum. 388 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 1: Once he changed the girl up, Once she lures a 389 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: nine year old own to the basement, sex assaults her, 390 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: beats until she's black and blue, what's he going to 391 00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: do with her? He can't let her go. He's gonna 392 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,160 Speaker 1: have to kill He's going to get rid of her. Yep, 393 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,920 Speaker 1: he's going to get rid of her. She can't testify 394 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 1: against him. And Nancy Again, if this was our case, 395 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: one thing we would be doing immediately. They have not 396 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: released you know how Abby and Libby were killed, obviously, 397 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:17,119 Speaker 1: but if choking was a factor, if they were sexually 398 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,920 Speaker 1: assaulted in a similar manner, if they had head injuries, 399 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: if they had dog hair on them, Now that the 400 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: dog was with him, but he would have that dog 401 00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: hair on him. Possibly good. They're looking at all of that. Okay, 402 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:33,359 Speaker 1: jump in, just got Morgan forensics. Yeah, this is this 403 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,399 Speaker 1: is my thought, Nancy, I think back to what Doug Carter, 404 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: who was the Indiana State Police superintendent, had said, and 405 00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 1: I think Becky knows where I'm going with this. He 406 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 1: had mentioned at one point in time that if they 407 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:53,359 Speaker 1: do have DNA from Abby and Libby scene, and this 408 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,480 Speaker 1: is I suspect they're going to be playing this pretty 409 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: close to the vest. We know that this house where 410 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,800 Speaker 1: this poor little girl was taken down the basement is 411 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: going to be a target rich environment for DNA. There's 412 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,440 Speaker 1: going to be DNA all over that place. So I 413 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: think that at this point to kind of whittle this down. Look, 414 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: these people are bright. They're going to compare the DNA 415 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:21,640 Speaker 1: samples that they have from Delphi along with what's going 416 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: on here in Lafiette. And this is not this guy's 417 00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 1: first rodeo. I can tell you that no one has 418 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: a bed in their basement with a chain where they 419 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: can essentially shut out everything else. This guy, like Macket said, 420 00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,920 Speaker 1: is prepped. So I think one of the other big 421 00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:46,520 Speaker 1: questions here is what else has gone on in that 422 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 1: specific basement. Okay, LOFFI, it's a lot bigger place than Delphi, 423 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,360 Speaker 1: so it's a college town it's where Purdue is, it's 424 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: up in that area. So is there anybody else missing? 425 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: And this guy has a type Nancy. He's not looking 426 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 1: for college students, but he's looking for little girls. Okay, 427 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: if in fact it's the same person from Delphi. So 428 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:09,840 Speaker 1: you're gonna be piecing this together along the way, and 429 00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 1: it might not just end in a fatal event. Maybe 430 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 1: he has been exposing himself. Maybe he has put his 431 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: hands on another little child at some point in time. 432 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,080 Speaker 1: And once this begins to unfold, and they go and 433 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: they question all of the people around there in that neighborhood. Yeah, 434 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 1: that guy creeped us out for a long time. Yeah, 435 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,399 Speaker 1: we had this interaction with him. Maybe nobody reported it 436 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,520 Speaker 1: to the police. You're gonna begin to see this narrative 437 00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:47,040 Speaker 1: developed a long way clime stories with Nancy Grace. When 438 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: this little girl at the beginning, we learn from the 439 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: little girl that once inside the home to pet the dog, 440 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 1: the suspect allegedly hits her in the head multiple times, 441 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: strangles her, chokes her with his hands on her neck, 442 00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: also using his arm to put her in a headlock. 443 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: And I take it that she passed out, because then 444 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:12,000 Speaker 1: we learned When the little nine year old girl comes around, 445 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 1: most of her clothes have been taken off while she 446 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,640 Speaker 1: was passed out. He took her down to the basement, 447 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: partially nude, where he forced her to perform sex acts. 448 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 1: According to court documents, the girl said this guy, James Chadwell, 449 00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: the second forty two, warned her if she screamed or 450 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: told anyone what happened, he would kill her. The little 451 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: girl is missing. At about seven pm, thirty minutes after 452 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: she was last seen at her home near Sagamore Parkway, 453 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: the police arrived. They immediately started searching the neighborhood for 454 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 1: the missing girl. Chadwell then tells them something. Alexis what 455 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: does he tell? The cop says they're going door to door. 456 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,960 Speaker 1: I believe he's said something like you might want to 457 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: come in here, something about the little girl had entered 458 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,280 Speaker 1: the home earlier but had left. And then they asked, 459 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,239 Speaker 1: can we searched your home? And he says yes. They 460 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: find the girl alive within one hour of her disappearance, distraught, 461 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 1: crying close on the floor beside her in Chadwell's basement, 462 00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,280 Speaker 1: which was locked with a chain lock. You're right, Joe 463 00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: Scott Morgan you're right, Cheryl McCollum. This day is first 464 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,120 Speaker 1: signment the rodeo. He's got everything prepped, asked she Wilcot. 465 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: When you traveled to Delphi and you looked at the scene, 466 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: what did you learn? Listen? You know when you go 467 00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: and look at that scene, it's like any beautiful kind 468 00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,560 Speaker 1: of state park, is how I would describe it. Where 469 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: you might go for a walk or a run. But 470 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,760 Speaker 1: it's fairly isolated, right. There are lots of trees, lots 471 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: of paths. There might be other people walking, there might 472 00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: not be, but what might observation? My feeling being there 473 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:04,720 Speaker 1: was exactly what Joe Scott maca said, and that is 474 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 1: it was planned. There was a deliberate method walking half 475 00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: a mile with the two girls. It was a steakout 476 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: in my opinion, because this is the kind of place 477 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 1: where you could if you were a predator to the 478 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 1: steak out two kids. The other thing Nancy I have 479 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 1: to add is don't forget. And I know you know 480 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,080 Speaker 1: this well. We have the voice of the Purp because 481 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: of those brave, brave, brave girls, one of whom recorded, 482 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: and we have some drawings and we have the picture 483 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: taken on the cell phone, so those things can also 484 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: be used with regards to this new potential suspect. Straight 485 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:50,120 Speaker 1: out to Becky, Patty, this is Liberty's grandmother joining us today. Becky, again, 486 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:53,040 Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I know you're familiar 487 00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,840 Speaker 1: with the two sketches police released in the Delfi case 488 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 1: involving your granddaughter Libby. In the first sketch that was 489 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: released early in the investigation. When I compare this guy, 490 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,960 Speaker 1: James Chadwell the second age forty two to that first sketch, 491 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 1: I find it very, very similar. When I look at 492 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: the second sketch that they released, including the facial hair 493 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: in the current guy, kind of like a soul patch, 494 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: a little facial hair, I find that similar. Have you 495 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: compared him to the composite sketches, Becky, I have seen 496 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 1: this side by side, and yes, he does resemble both sketches. 497 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: But I but I also want to say, um, so 498 00:32:46,200 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 1: have many other people. That's true. When you are looking 499 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,080 Speaker 1: at a side by side with them and you're wanting 500 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:58,480 Speaker 1: to see a resemblance, you will trust me. I'm I'm 501 00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: hoping that we'll get that phone call and this guy 502 00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: is a monster and no matter what, he needs to 503 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: be punished, But I just want that phone call from 504 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: the police confirming that it is him. But yes, but 505 00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 1: I feel like those sketches is really meant for somebody, 506 00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:24,760 Speaker 1: because I think you can make those sketches look like 507 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 1: anybody you want them to look like. I hear what 508 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,400 Speaker 1: you're saying that it's easy when you're so anxious to 509 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: solid case, you see what you want to see. What 510 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: do we know about this guy? Let's take a listen 511 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,920 Speaker 1: to our cut twenty two. This is from our friends 512 00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 1: at Inside Edition. He's a monster, exactly. He is an 513 00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:49,800 Speaker 1: absolute evil person. He's talking about his own brother, James Chadwell, 514 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,840 Speaker 1: who was accused of imprisoning a nine year old girl 515 00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:56,600 Speaker 1: in his basement and is under investigation in the unsolved 516 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,520 Speaker 1: murders of teens Libby German and Abby Williams in two 517 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,560 Speaker 1: thousand and seventeen. Do I think that he's capable of 518 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:07,280 Speaker 1: that kind of crime. Absolutely? Absolutely. He's shown numerous times, 519 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,279 Speaker 1: not only to his friends but his family as well, 520 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,879 Speaker 1: that he has that kind of evil streak to him. 521 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 1: Chadwell's stepfather also fears the forty two year old ex 522 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: con maybe the mysterious figure caught on Libby's cell phone 523 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:24,560 Speaker 1: approaching them on an abandoned train trestle in Delphi, Indiana. 524 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 1: Is he capable? Probably, you know? And should they let 525 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 1: him back out on the street? Not ever throw the 526 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,840 Speaker 1: key away at this time. Okay, let me understand what 527 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm just hearing, Cheryl McCollum. If your brother and your 528 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 1: stepfather are saying, yeah, he could do it, what does 529 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: that mean? What does that say? Your own family saying yep, 530 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: lock him up and throw away the key. He could 531 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,560 Speaker 1: have he could do this. Oh, they used the word evil. Yes, 532 00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:57,360 Speaker 1: they do find it interesting because he tried to drown 533 00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,840 Speaker 1: his brother when his brother was only four. So again, 534 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 1: looking at suspectology, with his bare hands, he will take 535 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: somebody and try to kill them with the breath, leaving them. 536 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,400 Speaker 1: This little nine year old girl he tried to strangle. Again, 537 00:35:16,000 --> 00:35:20,760 Speaker 1: we don't know the manner of death in a Delphi, 538 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: but again, if there was strangulation, that is a very 539 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,680 Speaker 1: clear pattern that cannot be ignored. Alexi's trust shocked with 540 00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: me Crime online dot Com investigative reporter alexis, what more 541 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: can you tell me about this guy? James Chadwell, the 542 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,120 Speaker 1: second age forty two, so's something his brother has said. 543 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,439 Speaker 1: So in the last few years he was in prison, 544 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,840 Speaker 1: he was released from prison. He was not in prison 545 00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,359 Speaker 1: when Abby and Libby were murdered. After that, his brother says, 546 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,080 Speaker 1: and you can see it in pictures. He has these 547 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: tattoos on him of young girls and they look like 548 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: they're crying, crying blood because it's a dark tattic, not 549 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:01,719 Speaker 1: like a clear kere, but a dark And his brother says, 550 00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: these tattoos make me so make me think that these 551 00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:07,880 Speaker 1: are tattoos of Abby and Libby, and the one of them, 552 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,160 Speaker 1: he says, looks just like Libby with her cute little smile, 553 00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: and it shows them crying. And he says, this is 554 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,879 Speaker 1: and everybody jokes got more than to everybody who knows 555 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: this says, that's something that criminals do. They tattoo themselves 556 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,359 Speaker 1: with a crime scene as part of a sick way 557 00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: to remember it. Not something that has really stood out 558 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,840 Speaker 1: with his family, but he has these new tattoos. James 559 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,040 Speaker 1: Brian Chadwill the second forty two year old male living 560 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:40,320 Speaker 1: in Lafayette, Indiana. I assume alexis he's living alone. Yes, okay, 561 00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: what do we know about this guy? The tattoo. I've 562 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:52,080 Speaker 1: looked at it. It's very very disturbing. One of that 563 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,839 Speaker 1: tattoos is a girl on his arm that looks very 564 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: very similar to Liberty, to Libby, Liberty German Becky Patty. 565 00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:08,400 Speaker 1: Has anyone informed you about that. I've seen it, Um, 566 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:15,840 Speaker 1: I've seen the tattoo um in court documents. In court documents, 567 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: go ahead, it is. It's disturbing and and I can 568 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 1: see why people say what they're saying. Guys, we have 569 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: studied the affidavit very very carefully, and I find it 570 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:35,120 Speaker 1: interesting that the little girl awakens and she's been unclothed 571 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:43,360 Speaker 1: while she's passed out. The faces uh, tattoos of crying 572 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:49,839 Speaker 1: girls on his arms very disturbing. He's covered in tattoos. Um. 573 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:52,800 Speaker 1: What more do you know Alexa's turess, Chuck, Well, we 574 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: also know about his criminal pass but you know his 575 00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:01,239 Speaker 1: own stepfather filed acclaim against him to him from his house. 576 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: This is not somebody who just got a dui. He 577 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,920 Speaker 1: is somebody that has an extensive rap sheet. But the 578 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,440 Speaker 1: other thing, you know, Joscot Morgan was talking about the 579 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 1: state Police superintendent. The one thing he has said about 580 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,560 Speaker 1: this crime that has always stuck with me and really 581 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,040 Speaker 1: just taunted me. He said he has never seen a 582 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: crime scene. Libby and Abby's crincy as disturbing. He says, 583 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: I will never be able to unsee that. Can I 584 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: tell you about a postalexis from this guy sleeping under 585 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:36,480 Speaker 1: a bridge for a while until work starts. Cool, dry, 586 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:40,439 Speaker 1: no neighbors, and the bridge is only six minutes from work. 587 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:46,080 Speaker 1: He's sleeping under a bridge and Abby and Liberty were 588 00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: just seeing last on a bridge. He is a welder. 589 00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: He filled his Facebook page with angry rants about life, 590 00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: saying that he himself wrecked everything and cries a lot. 591 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:06,120 Speaker 1: We're learning a lot of this from him things he's posted, 592 00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:09,799 Speaker 1: and for instance, one of his posts the police are 593 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:12,799 Speaker 1: looking for a suspect described as sexy, funny and great 594 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:17,280 Speaker 1: in bed. You're safe, but where shall I hide? Who 595 00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: would post that? He has a lengthy assault of criminal 596 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: history in both Indiana and South Dakota. He's no stranger 597 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: to the Internet. It's got a lot of postings there 598 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: and also on TikTok he talked about people praying on 599 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: little people to Becky Patty, what is going through your 600 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:48,040 Speaker 1: mind when the days have passed since this guy, Chadwell 601 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: was arrested. Well, I will say that of all the 602 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,400 Speaker 1: persons of interests, that have probably the most logical and 603 00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: he probably chucks more boxes than anybody else. But we 604 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:07,399 Speaker 1: don't allow ourselves to get our hopes up too much, 605 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,720 Speaker 1: because if you pin all your hopes on that, there's 606 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:17,239 Speaker 1: a chance of being disappointed. So we step back and 607 00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:21,719 Speaker 1: we let law enforcement do their thing, and we sit 608 00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:23,480 Speaker 1: here and hope and wait that we're going to get 609 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:26,840 Speaker 1: a phone call saying we got him. And until that 610 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: time that we get that phone call, be at him 611 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: or somebody else, we will continue looking. As it stands 612 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,120 Speaker 1: right now, James at Chadwell the second has not been 613 00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:43,320 Speaker 1: charged in connection to the martyrs of Abby and Libby. 614 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,120 Speaker 1: We wait as just as him falls, Nancy Grace comes story, 615 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,720 Speaker 1: signing off good my friends,