1 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:11,720 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. A lot of times when 2 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: I dropped the twins at school and I drive away, 3 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: I look back at the school and I wonder what's 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: going on behind those walls. Do I trust them? Some 5 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: parents have not been as lucky as I have been, 6 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: their children molested by school teachers. I want to start 7 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: by talking to you about a teen boy, his name 8 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: Corbin Madison. Listen to this. Taniel Whittaker, an elementary school 9 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,760 Speaker 1: teacher at the Wells Elementary School, was arrested on multiple 10 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:01,319 Speaker 1: accounts of sexual conduct was students to this point. As 11 00:01:01,320 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: a result of the investigation, we found two students that 12 00:01:05,040 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: have been involved if we think that they're possibly more so. 13 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,480 Speaker 1: But she was arrested on eight counts sexual conduct between 14 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: certain employees of schools and pupils. Her bail is one 15 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: hundred and sixty thousand dollars. She's last I checked, she 16 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,120 Speaker 1: was currently in custody here. So we would ask anybody 17 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: that has any further information, any other possible victims, or 18 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: anybody has any information to contact our detective division. You 19 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: are hearing the under Sheriff of Elko County, Nevada runs 20 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: SUP That was kar in v reporting that was just 21 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: the beginning of the story. Because after the shame and 22 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: humiliation of being one of the teachers sex victims, this 23 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 1: team boy, with his life in front of him, committed suicide. 24 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 1: Let that so can't just for a moment. This humiliated 25 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:07,760 Speaker 1: team took his own life after his teacher, his female 26 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: teacher now serving twenty years for sex with miners, so 27 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: embarrassed he took his own life just turning eighteen, great grades, 28 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 1: football team, happy family. He's dead. Nothing can change that, 29 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,800 Speaker 1: no matter how many years she does. Behind bars with 30 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: me an all star panel to break it down and 31 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 1: put it back together again. Joining me from New York. 32 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: Renowned attorney Jason Oceans, private investigator with Crispin's Special Investigations, 33 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:49,720 Speaker 1: Robbie Crispin, the founder of the company the Medical Examiner 34 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: for the entire state of Florida. Doctor Tim Gallagher. You 35 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: can find him at pathcaremed dot com. Sierra Gillespie Crime 36 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: online dot com. Investigative reporter. Doctor Roy H. Lubitt, Psychiatrists 37 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: Joining me out of New York. His specialty is child psychiatry. 38 00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: He has testified in over three hundred cases and has 39 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 1: served as expert and a number of criminal and civil 40 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 1: sex assault cases at roy lube dot com. But first 41 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to go to a special guest in joining me. 42 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: His name is Owen LaFave. After many, many years, I 43 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 1: consider Oha not just a colleague but a friend. Owen, 44 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 1: your wife, Debla fheve absolutely your former wife, Debla fheve 45 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: absolutely stunning. Just she almost looked like a painting or 46 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: a photograph of touched up you. Her demeanor was so 47 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: kind and so joyful, bubbly, full of life. Yet she 48 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: turned out to be a child molester of students, and 49 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 1: it shot no one more then it shot you and 50 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 1: what seemed to be a happy marriage. My point is, 51 00:04:20,040 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: you know, the other night, Owen, we had open night, 52 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: open open school night, such as it is for the teachers, 53 00:04:26,640 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: because everybody's on zoom, you know. And I looked at 54 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 1: the teachers, Owen, and they're perfectly wonderful. Teachers have great experience, 55 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: they're they're pretty, they're smart, they're enthusiastic. Every time I 56 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: look at a teacher, I can't help but think of 57 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 1: deb lea Faith. Do you remember when the charges, when 58 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: the investigation first happened and you first found out about it. 59 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: I bet you couldn't believe it. No, Nancy, And actually 60 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: it's hard to believe it's been fifteen or sixteen years 61 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: since that point, but it's something that I all like 62 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: it was almost yesterday. But you know, truth be told, 63 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: I knew that something was going on, So I think 64 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: it's important for everybody, especially as a parent, but you know, 65 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: in this case a spouse, to really trust your intuition. 66 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 1: But never ever did did I think it was would 67 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: have involved a student. I assumed that she was having 68 00:05:21,160 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 1: an affair with another one of our teachers or her colleagues, 69 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: but in this case, it was one of her students. 70 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: And yeah, I think you said it well. It was 71 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: just absolutely shocked, and I mean owen you as a 72 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: rule now never discuss debl fhaves case or your life 73 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 1: at that time. And I can't tell you how grateful 74 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: I am for you speaking out because I was telling 75 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: you one of the reasons, oh I was speaking out 76 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: today is because of this. Don't be a victim fighting 77 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: back against America's crime wave. You know, I thought I 78 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,919 Speaker 1: knew it all ohen la Faye until I had children, 79 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: right and now the thought of just handing them over 80 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: to a teacher that could molest them. It's just I 81 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: don't have words for it. And I go through many 82 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 1: scenarios of cases I investigated, tried and covered in the book, 83 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: and tell parents what I think they need to know, 84 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: tips to help them keep their children safe at school, 85 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: and many other circumstances. But what always was so amazing 86 00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 1: to me with deb La Fay, your then wife, was 87 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,760 Speaker 1: how she had everybody hoodwinked. I mean, I'm looking at 88 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,479 Speaker 1: a picture of her right now, she still looks like 89 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: a cover a cover girl. What was her personality, you know, 90 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:54,839 Speaker 1: very much like you described earlier. I mean she was 91 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: very jobial, very pleasant, very well liked by her colleagues 92 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,760 Speaker 1: and her students and within the community. And so oftentimes 93 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: you will find, as you were mentioning, as you look 94 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: at people, unfortunately, sometimes there is the wolf in chief's clothing, 95 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 1: if you will, these people are when I say, these people, 96 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: excuse me, but you know, predators have the appearance of 97 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: being outstanding. Citizens, are giving, they're altruistic, they're very generous, 98 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: they have positions of trust, and sometimes they get in 99 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: those positions to trust to have access to two children 100 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: and future victims. And sometimes they're just optimistic. But they're 101 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:38,320 Speaker 1: opportunistic rather but yeah, they develop trust and power, and 102 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: you never really know people's true intention, which is why 103 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: we just need to be builgent as parents. You know 104 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: what's amazing, Owen, is that as well as you thought 105 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,920 Speaker 1: you knew your wife, deb La Fay, you had no 106 00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: idea the possibility that she could be molesting a student. 107 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 1: Takesten to our friends at NBC. She's a top contender 108 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 1: for the title of America's most notorious school teacher. In 109 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:08,480 Speaker 1: two thousand and four, Deborah Beasley Lafaye was arrested at 110 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: the home of a middle school student, accused of having 111 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: sex with him at her apartment, in her car, in 112 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 1: her classroom. She was twenty three, he was fourteen. Now, 113 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: to a shocking story, a Florida teacher is facing possible 114 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 1: prison time. She wasn't the first teacher or the last 115 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 1: to be busted for a liaison with an underage student, 116 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: but her case created an international sensation. You know the 117 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: reality of this. I mean, it's a big news story 118 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: when it happened, and cases like this happened all the time. 119 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm sad to report, but today we're talking about a 120 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: young boy, Corbin Madison who was so embarrassed and humiliated 121 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 1: after it became public that his female teacher to Neil Whittaker, 122 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 1: thirty years older than him, was having sex with him, 123 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 1: he hung himself. The boy is dead because of a 124 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: teacher's molestation. Crime stories With Nancy Grace, we are talking 125 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: about how to keep your child safe in all situations, 126 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: even at school. Two years of research, investigation, and writing 127 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: went into Don't Be a Victim Fighting Back against America's 128 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: crime Wave, my proceeds going to National Center for Missing 129 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 1: and Exploited Children. I immediately in the book Tackle Your 130 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: Child Safe at School and joining me as a special 131 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 1: guest who I now consider to be a friend, Owen 132 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: la Faye married to wouldn't you say, Owen that this 133 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: case if your then wife, deb La Fave, was really 134 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,760 Speaker 1: one of the first cases like this to hit the media. 135 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it had been happening before, but this case 136 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: saturated the media and people became aware that teachers were 137 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: molesting students. I guess nobody really wanted to think about 138 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,280 Speaker 1: it before deb La Fave happened. Yeah, I think, And 139 00:10:23,360 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: so you mentioned earlier, Nancy, this is this is something 140 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: that I've chose to because it's been so long, and 141 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: I've been remarried and have a high profile professional career 142 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 1: in the finance industry. It's something that I wanted to 143 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: shy away from. But your book has really inspired me, 144 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: and the story of Corvin Madison also inspired me to 145 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:42,760 Speaker 1: speak out. And you know, I think at the time 146 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: when my personal situation, it was really when the twenty 147 00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 1: four hour media had taken place, and she's very attractive, 148 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: and I think it was very polarizing because people often 149 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: don't in our culture, don't believe boys are victims, and 150 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 1: you know, I think in this instance you could see 151 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,679 Speaker 1: that that's absolutely the a case, and they are victims, 152 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: and maybe some of their responses are a little different 153 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: than than female victims, but it has long term consequences 154 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: and in this case, a lot of shame and guilt. Unfortunately, 155 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:13,599 Speaker 1: we lost a special boy, and it's you know, the 156 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: reason I'm speaking out is to know just further support 157 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: you and hoping to prevent something like that from happening 158 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 1: to someone else. You know, owen for you to deviate 159 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: from your rule now that you never speak about the 160 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: double Fave case and you are actually coming forward and 161 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: rehashing all the h double l you went through at 162 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:40,280 Speaker 1: the time, the blaming, the shaming. I'm so grateful and 163 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: it's it's stunning to me that this boy, Corbin Madison, 164 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: took his life in humiliation, being ribbed about it every day, 165 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: jokes about having sex with teacher. He just couldn't take 166 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: it anymore. His parents did not see it coming. I 167 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: want to go to doctor Roy H. Lubet, psychiatrists joining 168 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 1: us out of New York. You can find them at 169 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: Roy Lubet lubit dot com. Doctor Lubitt I will a 170 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:16,079 Speaker 1: favor hit on an incredible point that very often people 171 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:22,319 Speaker 1: don't see boys as victims, but they are. What effect 172 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: does a molestation by a teacher have on a child? 173 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: A person that everybody seems to like and look up 174 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 1: to and trust, and there's a child knowing what's happening. 175 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:40,800 Speaker 1: There's a power differential between a teacher and the students 176 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:48,640 Speaker 1: and the child. It is going to be under pressure 177 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: and going to be controlled in a way that prevents 178 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 1: an equal relationship, and that has a negative effect at 179 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: the moment, and it has a negative affect in terms 180 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 1: of future relationships. In the midst of such a relationship, 181 00:13:05,720 --> 00:13:09,199 Speaker 1: you know, children adolescence begin to hide much of their 182 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: life from their friends, from their parents, and that isolates 183 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:17,719 Speaker 1: them from their community and cuts them off, and that 184 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: has a big impact on them emotionally. And there's a 185 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: very high instance of problems with anxiety. You know. You 186 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: said that things that happen amongst their peers, their friends 187 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: at school end up sadly defining them for the rest 188 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: of their lives. It shapes the way they see the world. 189 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: This young boy, Corbin Madison, committed suicide after his female 190 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:50,960 Speaker 1: teacher molested him. With me. Now, in addition to doctor 191 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: lubit is another expert who learned from the School of 192 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,880 Speaker 1: hard knocks. It's the husband of deb La Faye. Her 193 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: case made the headlines and brought the teacher sex crime 194 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: to the forefront. Take a listen to this. They've been 195 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,800 Speaker 1: married less than a year, but in June of two 196 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: thousand and four, Owen la Fay began to have a 197 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: terrible suspicion about his lovely wife, Deborah. He said something 198 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: along the lines of I think Debbie's having an affair 199 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,760 Speaker 1: to my mom, and he thought it was with one 200 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: of my fellow teachers. He never dreamed it was with 201 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 1: one of year students never but that's exactly what happened. 202 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: Deborah La Fave, a twenty three year old reading teacher, 203 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: was having an affair with a fourteen year old student 204 00:14:39,400 --> 00:14:42,240 Speaker 1: at her middle school in a suburb of Tampa. She'd 205 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: already performed oral sex on him. Now ten days later, 206 00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,720 Speaker 1: June fourteenth, she invited him to help her clean her 207 00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 1: classroom and crossed yet another line. That was the first 208 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: time you had intercourse with him at school. Yes, school 209 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: was out, and Deborah grew even more reckless. The next day, 210 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: she drove the student to o'calla one hundred miles north 211 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 1: to visit his fifteen year old cousin. They picked up 212 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 1: the cousin at his home, Deborah gave him the car keys, 213 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:15,120 Speaker 1: then she climbed in back and had sex with the 214 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,920 Speaker 1: fourteen year old. You know, to Owen La Fay, I know, 215 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:23,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe it doesn't hurt you this many 216 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: years later, but at the time it had to be 217 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: heartrending and people even blaming you because you didn't know 218 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: what was happening. But my point is when you look 219 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 1: at Deborah La Fay, or you look at Tanil Whitaker, 220 00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:43,040 Speaker 1: or you look at Tad Cummings, a male teacher that 221 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:49,479 Speaker 1: actually kidnapped his child sex victim a student. They seem 222 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: so friendly, so gregarious, so upbeat, you would never suspect. 223 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: And then oh, when you hear stories about for instance, 224 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 1: Corbyn Madison, the teen boy that committed suicide after his 225 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 1: teacher molested him, the implications are so widespread. Owen was 226 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 1: there any way do you look back and think, wow, 227 00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 1: here's a red flag. There's a red flag or did 228 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: she have you fool too? You know, Nancy had happened 229 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: so suddenly. Um, and it really did. But no, they 230 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: were they were red red flags. But like I said, 231 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: and like actually she said in the interview, Um really 232 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,000 Speaker 1: had no idea. It's just it just wasn't fathomable. Um, 233 00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: you know, especially in maybe a little more unusual at 234 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: the time. Anyway, it seemed doing with you know, a 235 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: woman predator and a boy victim and in her pace. 236 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: But it really was out of the blue. And you know, 237 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: like like you said, I mean, it was really amazing. 238 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: How you know the you know, I will say, the 239 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: media largely, but um, you know wants to point blame 240 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: at you know, either me for not being a husband 241 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: or you know me for not knowing sooner and being 242 00:17:03,320 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: able to notify somebody, But it's it's oftentimes the people 243 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 1: that are closest to us are the ones that you know, 244 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: we truly don't know what's going on. Well, you know 245 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: what I want to follow up on that. Owen La 246 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: Faye to Robbie Crispin, former police officer now private investigated 247 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:25,919 Speaker 1: with Crispin Special Investigations at Crispin Investigations dot Com. You 248 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:30,400 Speaker 1: do a ton of private eye work on all sorts 249 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: of cases, but also in domestic disputes. In other words, 250 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: this was divorcing that one and they start having them followed, 251 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: or you're asked to dig up information crime stories with 252 00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: Nancy Grace guys recovering this book which took two years 253 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: in the making for you to help protect yourself and 254 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 1: your children. Don't be a victim fighting back against America's 255 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: crime wave. To Robbie Crispin, We're talking about teachers molesting 256 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: their students and it happens every day. You just heard 257 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,960 Speaker 1: Owen La Favee, whose wife deb La fave was one 258 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: of the first bomb show cases of teacher molesting student. Robbie, 259 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 1: you heard him say, it's the one's closest to you 260 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 1: and your line of work, Robbie Crispin. Isn't it true 261 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,880 Speaker 1: that spouses they don't want to know? You know what, 262 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,639 Speaker 1: my husband the night before last. You know how I 263 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:48,600 Speaker 1: remember what night it was because last night we had 264 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: fish sticks, okay, and it was the night before that. 265 00:18:52,280 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: So Robbie, he says, Hey, I'm meeting Gary for dinner, 266 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 1: and you know I'll be home right if that, I'm like, great, 267 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,359 Speaker 1: go goodbye. And I never thought twice about it. And 268 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: you know what, Robbie, I don't want to think twice 269 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,360 Speaker 1: about it. I don't want to have to say, wow, 270 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 1: I wonder if he's really having dinner? What if he's 271 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: really having nachos somewhere? You don't want to know, so 272 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:22,000 Speaker 1: you don't bother to find out, and you intentionally choose 273 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 1: to see the world with rose colored glasses. I do. 274 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: When it comes to my children in my marriage, I 275 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: think they're all perfect. You know. The sad part about 276 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: all this is, Nancy is a lot of people don't 277 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,080 Speaker 1: want to upset the apple cart. They're living a great life. 278 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: They don't want to know, They don't want to know 279 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,400 Speaker 1: the truth. And each one of these cases that you're 280 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 1: talking about. Had somebody stepped forward put surveillance on somebody 281 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 1: in each one of these, every single step along the 282 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,440 Speaker 1: way in that investigation, some type of a surveillance would 283 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,880 Speaker 1: have caught Wi La Paid driving a fourteen year old 284 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: one hundred miles away. Someone would have caught the sex 285 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:00,720 Speaker 1: and hold on just a moment earlier. One referred to 286 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 1: this as an affair with a student. To Jason Oceans, 287 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,560 Speaker 1: veteran defense attorney, this is not an affair. That's not 288 00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: what this is. These standments are protected because you know, 289 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:17,679 Speaker 1: under the law, Jason oshans a child this age, and 290 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:19,639 Speaker 1: I call him a child because under the law they are. 291 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: They can't buy a house, they can't buy a car, 292 00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:24,680 Speaker 1: they can't buy liquor or tobacco because they don't have 293 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: the mental capacity to do that. So if I hear 294 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,040 Speaker 1: you say affair with a teacher again, you know what. 295 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:33,359 Speaker 1: I've never threatened to you a physical force, but I 296 00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:36,040 Speaker 1: can do a knuckle sandwich, no mayo, and you know 297 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: I mean it, Oceans, because this is not an affair. 298 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,879 Speaker 1: This is second constation. I object to the to the 299 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 1: use of that term. It's a it's a crime. U 300 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 1: with a real victim and real consequences. Um so there 301 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: are you know, I think mister Owen referred to it earlier, 302 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,880 Speaker 1: you know, with the cachet, you know, the first time 303 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 1: being a you know, younger of you know woman and 304 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 1: the boys those are boys And this is this is 305 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 1: not this is uh, you know, predatory opportunists, relative to 306 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 1: your book, opportunists taking the opportunity to do something, crimes 307 00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: of opportunity. Not everything is planned specifically, but but reacting 308 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 1: to an opportunity. And what can we as parents do 309 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: about I mean, Jason notions you've just gotten your second 310 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:37,240 Speaker 1: to college, but you were on them like a cheap 311 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: suit the whole way. I remember from pre K to twelve. 312 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: Listen to this, Oceans drop in unannounced when the teachers 313 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 1: see my beat up minivan coming into that parking lot 314 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: and they know there's going to be a spot check, Uh, 315 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: drop in unannounced. Know your teachers check out them online 316 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,119 Speaker 1: their Insta or Facebook may just surprise you. And that 317 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,800 Speaker 1: is not a violation of their right to privacy, is it, 318 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: Jason Oceans, I can look them up, not at all. 319 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: It's it's it's all public information and I support that. 320 00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you can't be an ostrich with 321 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: your head in the sand. You gotta you gotta be alert. 322 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: You gotta be a hawk. Uh. You know, quick glances 323 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,719 Speaker 1: behind you all the time, no difference than those same 324 00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: type of furtive glances when you're walking to make sure 325 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,959 Speaker 1: that you're safe to the insides of what's you know 326 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: all around you? Um, your your students, uh, they're teachers, 327 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 1: your children. Be alert, Always be alert. Don't be paranoid, 328 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: Just be alert. I'm going to go with paranoid. Thank 329 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: you very much. Guys, we're talking about don't be a 330 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 1: victim finding back against America's crime wave. Joining me special guests, 331 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: ohen la fay. Here is another idea. If you're a 332 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,480 Speaker 1: child is singled out for special treatment, or asked to 333 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: stay after school, taken on a private trip, or given 334 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: a gift by the teacher, that's a bad sign. I 335 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: bring out. My son had an awesome teacher who gave 336 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: him extra books. He loved it. He even has a 337 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,439 Speaker 1: key chain of a lighthouse that she gave him about 338 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,840 Speaker 1: one of the books. Lucy had a teacher who took 339 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:25,159 Speaker 1: extra time to rehearse piano with her in overtime in 340 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 1: their private time I'm not talking about that. I'm talking 341 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: about like deb La Faye driving the student, you know, 342 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: an hour away and seeing them outside of school. That's 343 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: a bad sign. Owen. That is a bad sign, Nancy. 344 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,639 Speaker 1: But in my defense, you know, at the time, I 345 00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 1: thought she was working in you know, not driving across 346 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: the great state of Florida and you know, in other 347 00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: things and events when you know she was out supporting 348 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:03,360 Speaker 1: her students. The you know, the story and the narrative 349 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: all made sense, but you know, in for that reason, 350 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: I would just warn everybody, you know, if anything seems suspicious, 351 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 1: especially when it comes to your child, you need the question, 352 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: you need to follow up. You need to be diligent. 353 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:18,400 Speaker 1: I love the ostrogen and hawk analogy. I mean, that's 354 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: exactly it apparent what you need to do. Well. Put guys, 355 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: it goes from and is so mischaracterized that this is 356 00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:32,440 Speaker 1: every schoolboy's dream to have sex with the teacher. It's not. 357 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: It's not at all. Take a listen to our friends. 358 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:42,360 Speaker 1: This is Jeff Zander, the Elko County School superintendent. Did 359 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: anybody in the school district know about this? Jeff? These allegations, well, 360 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: from the mistry standpoint, we were notified back in October 361 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,919 Speaker 1: of some allegations. And so that being said, we've actually 362 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: completed three different investigations on the situation, and wells over 363 00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 1: the best, you know, nine months. That being said, as 364 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,920 Speaker 1: Lawrence stated earlier, nobody really wanted to testify or give 365 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:11,200 Speaker 1: a statement that said yes, this happened, okay, And so 366 00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: so that the Sheriff's office has been in a full 367 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: investigation that we participated or tried to help facilitate with 368 00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: the Sheriff's office. I want to go to Sierra Gillespie 369 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigative reporter that was the Elko 370 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:32,439 Speaker 1: County School superintendent describing resistance met by witnesses they tried 371 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: to speak to there at Wells Elementary. I'm no one 372 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:45,479 Speaker 1: seemingly wanted to testify, Sierra Gillespie, How did that molestation occur? 373 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: What was the m of the teacher? And so what happened? 374 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,679 Speaker 1: This teacher was an elementary school teacher and she was 375 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,359 Speaker 1: abusing students who were at a nearby high school. So 376 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,439 Speaker 1: basically they would come and be like aids for her classroom, 377 00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: helping around with like maybe like reading buddies or things 378 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: like that, so that they could get extra credit. And 379 00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: so how it happened was she had this special like 380 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: reading corner in her classroom that you could not see 381 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: from the door, like in the hallway, and you couldn't 382 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 1: see from the windows looking outside. So she had something 383 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: called her quote unquote special hours, and that is when 384 00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: these situations would happen. Actually, one of the students there 385 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 1: were four in total who were abused. But one of 386 00:26:35,119 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: the students initially resisted her, and she threatened to mark 387 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: him absence, say that he did not show up. You're 388 00:26:41,720 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: not going to get credit for this course if you 389 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: don't engage in these sexual acts with me. How was 390 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:53,600 Speaker 1: it finally uncovered? So actually there are several situations that 391 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:58,760 Speaker 1: happened actually the nearby high school principle where these students 392 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,159 Speaker 1: were from the older students who were being abused. He 393 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: had six reports on this. Whoa WHOA wait a minute, 394 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:11,239 Speaker 1: six reports. Listen to this. We started getting reports from 395 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: people quite some time ago. A lot of them were 396 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,120 Speaker 1: very reluctant to come forward for a variety of different reasons. 397 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: So we did some unconventional investigation. We did a lot 398 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: of surveillance and some things like that. Was able to 399 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,119 Speaker 1: gather a lot of information, which then led us to 400 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,119 Speaker 1: circle around and finally we got down to the arrest 401 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:48,040 Speaker 1: Yesterday crime stories with Nancy Grace. Don't be a victim 402 00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: fighting back against America's crime wave. Protect your children at 403 00:27:53,960 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: school with me an all star panel with PhDs and 404 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: from the School of Hard Knocks, protecting your child at 405 00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: school for instance. And there you just heard. All these 406 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,560 Speaker 1: complaints were happening, but nothing was being done. The molestation continued, 407 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: and the boy committed suicide when people started mocking him 408 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: and making fun of him. The parents couldn't save him. 409 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 1: I mentioned drop in unannounced. I've used examples like, oh, 410 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,920 Speaker 1: I've got to give John David a baby aspirin, or 411 00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: oh Lucy forgot her hoodie. To get in be involved. 412 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 1: You don't have to be the president of the PTO 413 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:45,080 Speaker 1: for Pete's sake, but be involved, be on the scene. 414 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: I went so far as to be a volunteer in 415 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: the library. Do you know how many thousands of books 416 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:54,480 Speaker 1: I shelved just so I could walk by and see 417 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:58,960 Speaker 1: John David and Lucy when they were on snack time. Yes, 418 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,400 Speaker 1: I hope the school's not listening. I did have an 419 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: ulterior motive, but you know, what back to you, Owen 420 00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: La Fave. I don't know how parents can look at 421 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: a teacher like deb La Fave and think, Wow, she's 422 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:18,719 Speaker 1: gotta left my child. What tips do you have for parents, Owen? 423 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,880 Speaker 1: You know, I think it really all starts with having 424 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:24,840 Speaker 1: a relationship with your child so they feel comfortable talking 425 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 1: to you and sharing things with you. And like I 426 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: said earlier, if anything seems suspicious or your child says something, 427 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: you need to follow up on that. Knowing who your 428 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: child is spending time with, being diligent, checking their phones 429 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: and emails, and even to the extent of maybe being 430 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: a big brother and a life tracker app so you 431 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,240 Speaker 1: know where you're at when it came to you my 432 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: former wife. Unfortunately that technology wasn't around back then, but 433 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 1: maybe that could have helped you know the boy in 434 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: this instance. It just understanding that just because someone belongs 435 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 1: to a reputable organization or seems to be a reputable 436 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: person in the community, oftentimes they are the predators and 437 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: follow your intuition and pop in. I love that story, Nancy. 438 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: I think that's me and all the books I shelved. 439 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: Oh that's the tip of the iceberg. If you had 440 00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: any idea. I picked the twins um they go, Mom, 441 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: we saw you at recess. I'm like so, and I 442 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,479 Speaker 1: wasn't trying to hide, John David, I don't care if 443 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: you saw me. I know if everybody else saw me too, 444 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: because I'm watching to doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for 445 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: the entire state of Florida at pathcaremed dot com. Doctor Gallagher, 446 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: you may be wondering the significance of you and m 447 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,680 Speaker 1: E being on our program today. And this is why 448 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: it's very hard to prove a case like this at trial. 449 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 1: There's no forensic governance left. Isn't it true that, for instance, sperm, 450 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 1: it's gone after about twenty six hours, it starts decomposing 451 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: almost immediately touch DNA, all of that vanishes in a 452 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 1: matter of days. And you heard the school's resistance in 453 00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: prosecuting and investigating to Neil Whittaker that young man took 454 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: his life. So you can't count on forensics in cases 455 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 1: like this to prove anything. Well, I mean that can 456 00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: be true, Nancy. I guess it depends on where you 457 00:31:27,440 --> 00:31:30,440 Speaker 1: look for the DNA. If you could find a DNA 458 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: under the fingernails or in other parts of the body. 459 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:38,920 Speaker 1: Back as you can find it on the clothing. You 460 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: can find it on the clothing as well. But I 461 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: understand that this case was a suicide, and is that 462 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: what is going to be difficult to prove it? Well, 463 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:51,440 Speaker 1: I made them a lesstation of the children. Is very 464 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: hard to prove forensically because time passes and the evidence 465 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: decomposes in the body. Well, that's true. Time is of 466 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: the essence. It is your greatest enemy. And it's best 467 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: if you have these suspicions to act swiftly and to 468 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: collect the clothing, collect any type of item that may 469 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:19,400 Speaker 1: have been received from the potential molester, and then sequester 470 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: that for friends of evidence. Back to doctor Roy H. Lubitt, 471 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: joining us from New York, New York psychiatrist doctor Lubitt. 472 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: In this case, the boy victim Corman, felt so much 473 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: anxiety and embarrassment and like a self esteem the humiliation. 474 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: He actually moved away from his hometown just days after 475 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 1: high school and then couldn't take it anymore and killed himself. 476 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 1: Now the parents have to live every day of their 477 00:32:55,360 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: life wondering what could I have done? What is your 478 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: advice to parents, doctor Lubitt, Well, it's critical that the 479 00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: parents being very available and very supportive these situations. But 480 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: it's also critical to the school see to it, sees 481 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:17,040 Speaker 1: to it that other students and teachers understand that the 482 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: boy was a victim, just as a girl who had 483 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,400 Speaker 1: sex with a teacher is a victim. And what I've 484 00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,680 Speaker 1: seen happen is that people turn on the male victim 485 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 1: where they complain that the woman was a favorite teacher 486 00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: of theirs, that you know, he must have enjoyed it, 487 00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:42,840 Speaker 1: he was complicit in it, and this is devastating. Teenagers 488 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: are particularly vulnerable to humiliation. We all are, but when 489 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 1: you retired, community turns on you and your teenager, and 490 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: teenagers are impulsive, the risk to them killing themselves is 491 00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: very high. Guys, how can you protect your child, no 492 00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: matter what age, when they were at school, And it's 493 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,840 Speaker 1: hard to take in that they even have to be 494 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: protected from their teacher, you know, And I think of 495 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,760 Speaker 1: my teachers. I think about Miss Julia, my kindergarten teacher. 496 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 1: Her husband was a farmer and she wanted to teach, 497 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 1: so he cleared out the barn and I went to 498 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:24,320 Speaker 1: kindergarten in a barn and it was wonderful. My first 499 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,240 Speaker 1: grade teacher, my second grade teacher, Miss Annabelle. I wrote 500 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:32,439 Speaker 1: my first poem for her and she kept it. All 501 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 1: the teachers that were so wonderful that affected my life 502 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: and changed my life. And it's hard to take in 503 00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: that there are teachers that molest their students. We've talked 504 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: about two female teachers that molested their students, one child 505 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:52,000 Speaker 1: actually committing suicide over the shame of the sex molestation. 506 00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: But who could ever forget the case of Tad Cummings. 507 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: Listen to this, but even after coming to round, Thomas 508 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: says he tried to maintain control over her. He said, 509 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: not to tell them that we have done anything. That 510 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: he forced me to go, say that I went willingly 511 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,759 Speaker 1: say that he was trying to protect me. As time passes, 512 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: Thomas slowly coming to terms with the ordeal. I know 513 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 1: he's a bad man, and I'd blame myself a lot, 514 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 1: but now I know that he's at fault. He himself 515 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: made him do it. Other people don't choose your actions. 516 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: You do. And Tad Cummings pleaded guilty earlier this year 517 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,359 Speaker 1: to transporting a minor across state lines for sex. What 518 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,399 Speaker 1: Tad Cummings did was take advantage of a snow day 519 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: day that or an in teacher study day. When the 520 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,879 Speaker 1: dad thought his daughter was going to school, Cummings took 521 00:35:49,920 --> 00:35:51,920 Speaker 1: off with the daughter. She was found on the other 522 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: side of the country in a commune with her a 523 00:35:54,800 --> 00:36:00,440 Speaker 1: teacher having sex repeatedly. This little girl, she dound so 524 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,719 Speaker 1: grown up. I guess the experience change here in ways 525 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 1: we can never understand. But no one knew what was happening. 526 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: Her parents, her friends, no one knew. What can you do? 527 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:19,440 Speaker 1: Look for signs in your child's behavior. Have their grades dropped? 528 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 1: Do they have unexplained absences? As Owen la Fay pointed out, 529 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,280 Speaker 1: have the track or the device on your child's phone 530 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: so you know where they are. Research to school history 531 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: at particular teachers. Look up Facebook, Insta, Twitter and all 532 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: social media. Look for your teacher if you get bad vibes, 533 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,480 Speaker 1: don't be afraid to ask that your child be transferred 534 00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:49,040 Speaker 1: to another class. So what do your homework? This book 535 00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: has pages and pages of ways for you to protect 536 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:58,640 Speaker 1: your child. To all of my guests, thank you for 537 00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,399 Speaker 1: being with us. God bless these children that are trying 538 00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: to put their lives back together. And to the parents 539 00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:11,480 Speaker 1: of Corbin, don't be a victim. Don't let your child 540 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 1: be a victim. Fight back. Nancy Grace cried the story, 541 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,720 Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,