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Speaker 1: The following episode was recorded before the WGA sag Aftra

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Speaker 1: strikes of twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 2: When I first heard about the revolution in Iran, it

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Speaker 2: just made me think so much about how truly grateful

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Speaker 2: I am for the freedoms of my daughter and my wife. Gosh,

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Speaker 2: there's so much that we take for granted here in

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Speaker 2: this country. Yes, we have a long way to go

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Speaker 2: in terms of equality, gender equality, and things like the

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Speaker 2: Equal Rights Amendment that still hasn't been able to pass.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, there's parts of the world

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Speaker 2: where being a woman limits your opportunities. To have a

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Speaker 2: society that is based on that and on those traditions

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Speaker 2: of silencing the voices of these incredible women is really

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Speaker 2: a tragedy, and I think that it's very inspiring to

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Speaker 2: me to see these women that have risen up and

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Speaker 2: Iran and Afghanistan and other countries. I have a tremendous

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Speaker 2: privilege as a man, and the safety that I feel

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Speaker 2: traveling most places in the world is something that is

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Speaker 2: very very easy to take for granted. So today we

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Speaker 2: have nazanin Boniati and her guest Roya, both from Iran.

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Speaker 2: They've got some very very powerful stories to share. This

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Speaker 2: is a very very timely issue, so please lean in.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you're here. Okay, here we are with Nozanin Boniatti. Now,

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Speaker 2: first off, did I get it even close to being right?

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Speaker 3: I'm so impressed you nailed it.

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Speaker 2: Listen, that is a star's name. I mean a change

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Speaker 2: your name. Did you change your name?

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Speaker 3: No? In fact, a lot of people told me to

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Speaker 3: change my name, and I thought, you know, I started

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Speaker 3: act and sort of about post nine to eleven climates,

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Speaker 3: so it was you know, nobody's going to that's not

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Speaker 3: going to resonate with anyone. You'll you'll be stuck, stuck

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Speaker 3: playing sort of human shields for the rest of your

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Speaker 3: life exactly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. What were some of the worst names that

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Speaker 2: they suggested?

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Speaker 3: A lot of people wanted me to be named Nina,

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Speaker 3: Like my first name to be changed from Nazanine to Nina.

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Speaker 3: Well that's still kind of Iranian, but you can, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's westernized, and I think very few people had a

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Speaker 3: huge name with a problem with my last name. It

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Speaker 3: was mainly just sort of the first name. But you know,

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Speaker 3: you have so many great Iranian actors with incredibly sort

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Speaker 3: of complex and gorgeous names like shre Alta shlu and

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Speaker 3: and why not. I mean, that's why not.

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Speaker 2: I mean, come on, it's people have actually asked me

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Speaker 2: if I changed my name to Bacon because I thought,

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Speaker 2: you know, that that would be as somehow would I

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Speaker 2: don't know, And I'm like, what kind of a fool

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Speaker 2: would want to be? You know, have a lifetime of

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Speaker 2: jokes about your last name being a breakfast food and

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Speaker 2: I was, I couldn't believe it when when people, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I can't. I don't think I ever really thought about

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Speaker 2: switching it. But you know, also there's a very very

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Speaker 2: large population of the of the world that the name

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Speaker 2: Bacon does not bring up good feelings.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, yeah, I never thought of that. But you

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Speaker 3: know what, I really I dig your name and thank

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Speaker 3: you she didn't Thank goodness you didn't change it.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for saying that. You know,

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Speaker 2: a lot of times when people come on the actor

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Speaker 2: pretty much everybody that's been on this on this podcast,

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Speaker 2: we try to, I try to think about or actually

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Speaker 2: do research into whether or not there are actually any

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Speaker 2: connections because of this, you know, six degrees thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I don't think that we've ever worked together in

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Speaker 2: the same project as far as I can tell. Now,

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Speaker 2: I'm absolutely certain that you've worked with someone that I've

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Speaker 2: worked with, although I'm not exactly sure who that who

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Speaker 2: that necessarily is. But one connection that we do have

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Speaker 2: is a history of soap operas.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I didn't know that. Which one were you on?

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Speaker 2: Well? I started in the seventies in New York and

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Speaker 2: one of the first soap opera that I did was

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Speaker 2: called Search for Tomorrow. Oh not, it doesn't even exist anymore.

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Speaker 2: And I was a boy who just in for the summer,

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Speaker 2: and the reason that I was there was there was

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Speaker 2: a very very popular young lady who was in the

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Speaker 2: course of that summer going to turn sixteen and have

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Speaker 2: her first kiss, and I was going to be the kiss,

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Speaker 2: but it was kind of the build up to that.

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Speaker 2: And then I went on to The Guiding Light, which

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Speaker 2: I was on for a year as Tim the Teenage Alcoholics.

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Speaker 2: So how did you find in your way to to soaps?

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was right the beginning of my career,

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Speaker 3: and I feel like goodness now I'm thinking back. It

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Speaker 3: was a very long time ago, and I I appreciated

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Speaker 3: the fact that it was like boot camp because you're

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Speaker 3: learning what an episode of dialogue a day, and it's

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Speaker 3: just it's a lot and you're making I made all

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Speaker 3: my mistakes on screen. I mean I cringed sometimes when

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Speaker 3: I look back at those episodes, and I'm like, what

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Speaker 3: was I thinking? I mean, I was headed to medical school.

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Speaker 3: I was going to be a doctor, like every good

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Speaker 3: Iranian girl is supposed to be.

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Speaker 2: Wow, what kind of medicine were you going to do?

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Speaker 3: I was thinking pediatric oncology, which would have been hugely depressing.

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Speaker 3: But I'm wow, yeah, yeah, And I graduated with honors

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Speaker 3: in pre med and then I became a nurse on

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Speaker 3: general hospital. So my dad was like, that makes no

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Speaker 3: sense to me.

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Speaker 2: You got the motive, You got the motor was it

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Speaker 2: became an actor. Doesn't that happen to us a lot?

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Speaker 2: I think got a lot of that. Yeah, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know you you you work so hard as a

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Speaker 2: waiter and then you know your first job is as

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Speaker 2: a busboy in a movie. You know, But that's but

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Speaker 2: that's that's fascinating. So but take me back to you

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Speaker 2: were born in Iran, correct, Yes, and and you left

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Speaker 2: right around the time of the revolutionary right after the.

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Speaker 3: Rainy Revolutionary Yeah, right after the Islamic Revolution, which was

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Speaker 3: seventy nine, and so I was What actually happened was

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Speaker 3: my parents tried to leave when my mother was eight

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Speaker 3: months pregnant, and then you know, a scene straight out

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Speaker 3: of Argo. Basically, my father's name was announced on the

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Speaker 3: PA system at the airport as they were trying to leave,

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Speaker 3: and mister Bonneli was summoned to the revolutionary court. And

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Speaker 3: what that meant was they were both dissidentced they didn't

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Speaker 3: they were opposed to the newly forming Islamic Republic, and

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Speaker 3: they they realized that raising a child in that environment

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Speaker 3: where political, social, legal rights were just quickly being stripped

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Speaker 3: away from people wouldn't be a good thing. And my

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Speaker 3: dad would probably be executed because he was against the regime.

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Speaker 2: And so was he was he a doctor? Was he

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Speaker 2: in medicine as well?

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Speaker 3: He was a journalist. Journalist, you know, they don't like

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Speaker 3: gen they don't like anybody who sort of uses free expression.

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Speaker 3: He worked for the King's newspaper, So anybody who worked

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Speaker 3: under the former guard that was sort of like target

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Speaker 3: public enemy number one, and so we were summoned. I

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Speaker 3: happened to be born while he was waiting for his

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Speaker 3: court date, which you would have most likely been just

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Speaker 3: summarily executed, and we managed to escape on fake passports,

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Speaker 3: you know, twenty days or something after.

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Speaker 2: Where did you fly? Where did you fly? London?

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Speaker 3: That's that's where I was raised. We got political asylum

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Speaker 3: in London. My uncle was there at the time, so

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Speaker 3: it made sense. My parents obviously knew a tiny bit

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Speaker 3: of English because it was like the second language, second

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Speaker 3: or third language at the time being taught, and Iran

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Speaker 3: and it just made most sense. And so I grew

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Speaker 3: up in London and council flats and bed and breakfasts,

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Speaker 3: and I managed to sort of get a scholarship to

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Speaker 3: a private school because I studied really hard. The typical

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Speaker 3: immigrant story of parents wanting their kids to sort of

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Speaker 3: be successful and you know, yeah, wow.

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Speaker 2: What a story. Now, So the passports had to be

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Speaker 2: gathered off of like the black market or something like

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Speaker 2: that or no.

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Speaker 3: Actually, oddly enough, the guy who took over the newspaper

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Speaker 3: that my father was working for, in which he was

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Speaker 3: sort of head chief accountant and occasionally wrote as well.

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Speaker 3: He he was he worked for the new government, the

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Speaker 3: new regime, but he took a liking to my dad

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Speaker 3: and he said, look, you will be executed. You need

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Speaker 3: to get out, and he helped us escape and then

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Speaker 3: a year later he was executed.

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Speaker 2: Oh so yeah, wow, that is so story. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: I guess this has probably happened to a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I actually just had dinner with a

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Speaker 2: man the other night who had a very very similar

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Speaker 2: story but ended up in England and went to school

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Speaker 2: in the UK. So you're there living in London and

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Speaker 2: what did your parents do then, I mean did they

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Speaker 2: just kind of fundy any job they could or.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, menial jobs. You know. It was a huge again,

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Speaker 3: much like any other sort of refugee where you leave

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Speaker 3: sort of a stable life, things that you're familiar with

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Speaker 3: in know, and perhaps even great success, and you leave

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Speaker 3: and you have to sort of start from scratch, except

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Speaker 3: for this as a young couple. My mother was twenty

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Speaker 3: at the time, my dad was thirty, and I was

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Speaker 3: twenty days when we got to London, so you can imagine,

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Speaker 3: and it adds a lot of pressure to a couple

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Speaker 3: who don't really know the language or how to navigate

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Speaker 3: life at such a young age.

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Speaker 2: And then what was the evil cup that you dragged

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Speaker 2: become an actor. That made you go, I think I'm

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Speaker 2: not going to save you know, babies, I think I'll

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Speaker 2: be an actor.

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Speaker 3: Oh goodness, I feel like Okay. So I was in

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Speaker 3: every single high school play. I was very sort of

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Speaker 3: artistic growing up, but it was always encouraged that that

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Speaker 3: would well, that's just your hobby, right, so's you can

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Speaker 3: do that. You can go take ballet classes and do

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Speaker 3: ice skating performances on the ice rink, and you can

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Speaker 3: play the violin, and you can be in every high

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Speaker 3: school play. But that's always just going to be a hobby.

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Speaker 3: I think it's just ingrained in our culture that we

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Speaker 3: have to be academic. It's a running joke Iranians have

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Speaker 3: to be doctors. You have lots of choices, doctor, engineer, lawyer, dentist.

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Speaker 3: Those are your option, and I chose sort of like

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Speaker 3: I thought. I always knew I wanted to help people.

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Speaker 3: I thought, well, medicine, that's just how I'm going to

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Speaker 3: help people. And I sort of suppressed the artistic side.

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Speaker 3: And then I got to a point where I got

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Speaker 3: my I studied so hard, Kevin, I thought it just

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Speaker 3: didn't come naturally to me to get a's so to

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Speaker 3: get the a's and to graduate with honors, I went

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Speaker 3: to UC. I went to UC Irvine, I moved for

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Speaker 3: university and I thought, okay, I just had to study

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Speaker 3: so hard. It didn't come naturally at all. So when

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Speaker 3: I graduated with honors, I remember thinking this is great,

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Speaker 3: but it just ruined, like it ruined every ounce of

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Speaker 3: my soul. Again, it didn't come naturally, and the arts

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Speaker 3: did and do. So it feels like I made the

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Speaker 3: right choice.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, clearly you made the right choice. Just as

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Speaker 2: I'm just circling back, just thinking about something. As a

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Speaker 2: scholarship student in a London school or in the British

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Speaker 2: school system and being an Iranian refugee, did you find

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Speaker 2: that people were welcoming? I mean, I'm assuming that there

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Speaker 2: weren't a lot a lot of other uh you and

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Speaker 2: they'll have a lot of friends who were who were Ranian.

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Speaker 3: No. In fact, I think there it might have only

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Speaker 3: been one more Iranian person in There was one rounding

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Speaker 3: guy in my class, I think maybe in all my school.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean that was just a huge difference

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Speaker 3: between I would go home to a council flat government

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Speaker 3: which is government housing, and then go to this really

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Speaker 3: push school with you know, a bunch of rich kids,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I counted my blessings every day that

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Speaker 3: I got to sort of get that education. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: the two lives that I led sort of at home

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Speaker 3: and were very different.

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Speaker 2: And how is how did you Was it a kind

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Speaker 2: of a culture shock to land in southern California and

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Speaker 2: see that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. It's odd. It's I mean, I'm sure

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Speaker 3: you spent a lot of time in the UK. We

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Speaker 3: speak the same language, but it is it's hugely different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure it is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So yeah, people sort of take it for granted,

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Speaker 3: like I just moved to London or I just moved

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Speaker 3: to la But it is. It takes them adjusting, and

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Speaker 3: it's it's just different.

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Speaker 2: So you're in California and you're finishing up medical school

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Speaker 2: and you have this giant, giant fork in the road

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Speaker 2: and you take a different turn. Yeah, how is it?

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming, like I'm not really sure on the I

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Speaker 2: didn't I didn't go to college. I'm not sure on

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Speaker 2: the math of what you'd be in your twenties maybe

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Speaker 2: or Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So I finished pre med, so I got a degree

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Speaker 3: in biology, and I was applying to medical school and

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Speaker 3: I was twenty four, I guess twenty five. And that's

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Speaker 3: when I when I decided I wanted to I actually

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Speaker 3: wanted to act. And I called my dad who's still

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Speaker 3: in London, and I said, thanks for helping me with college,

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Speaker 3: but I'm going to go act now. Needless to say,

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Speaker 3: that didn't that didn't necessarily go down very well.

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Speaker 2: Ah, I can't imagine. I mean, I've not picturing like

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Speaker 2: an emoji with your with his head blow it off.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Wow, he was not happy. No, I'm sure he's been that. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: He said something along the lines of, couldn't you have

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Speaker 3: decided this, like maybe four or five years ago before

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Speaker 3: we before we invested sort of five years for four

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Speaker 3: or five years in college.

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Speaker 2: How do you even begin, you know, to to have

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Speaker 2: that career? I mean, I mean, I think people are

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Speaker 2: always fascinated in what you know. How how do you

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Speaker 2: start to be an actor?

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Speaker 3: Gosh, I wish there was I'm sure you get asked

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Speaker 3: this question all the time, and I wish there was

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Speaker 3: sort of this like just one answer that we could

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Speaker 3: give everyone and help them along the way. It is

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Speaker 3: sort of hit or miss, and you try everything. And

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Speaker 3: for me, just because I just graduated UNI. I thought, okay,

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Speaker 3: I'm just going to go to U C LA and

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Speaker 3: USC and asked to be in every single student film

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Speaker 3: and put a reel together and work for free and

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Speaker 3: then submit to get sort of a manager and see

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Speaker 3: how that goes. I was really lucky because you know,

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Speaker 3: everybody said, you're in your mid twenties as an actress.

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Speaker 3: As a woman, it's harder as a minority woman. It's

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Speaker 3: even harder, especially in a post nine to eleven climate.

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Speaker 3: It just all felt sort of the wrong time for

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Speaker 3: me to start. And also I was aware that people

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Speaker 3: were doing this since they were nine and still hadn't

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Speaker 3: quite whatever made it means, but in their minds hadn't

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Speaker 3: made it. And then I was lucky because I managed

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Speaker 3: to get a SAG card nine months after I decided

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Speaker 3: acting to start acting. So I just thought that's and

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Speaker 3: then I realized, okay, so maybe I am supposed to

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Speaker 3: be doing this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good sign. But I got to tell you,

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Speaker 2: I don't know that I know of anyone or I've

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Speaker 2: never spoken to it. I started in New York, but

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Speaker 2: I'd never spoken to anyone that actually went that. That's

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Speaker 2: a fascinating rap to actually go to USC and U

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Speaker 2: C l A and just what do you go, like

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Speaker 2: up to a message board or something and just see

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Speaker 2: if there's anybody be cast in a part. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 2: really smart because because then you end up with with film,

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Speaker 2: you know, and and and you get and you get

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Speaker 2: end up with two great things. One is film and

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Speaker 2: one is experience. And and by the way, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you feel this way, but I'm still waiting

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Speaker 2: to make it. I mean, I mean, you know, I

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Speaker 2: don't you know that idea that somebody feels like they

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Speaker 2: got there is It's it's not very common, I think

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Speaker 2: among actors. I think we really are constantly, you know,

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Speaker 2: still searching for something else because you know, we we

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Speaker 2: we we're we're freelance operators, you know, and we got

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Speaker 2: to keep keep the work rolling in So you get

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Speaker 2: on your soap and and that that soap was shot

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Speaker 2: in l A General Hospital, right, gosh.

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Speaker 3: Yeah it was, it was l A. And it just

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Speaker 3: it just makes me feel so warm it to hear

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Speaker 3: you say that, Evin, because it just this idea that you,

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Speaker 3: with your your level of success, still have that feeling

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 2: Of I'm always waiting for the phone to ring. I'm

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Speaker 2: always waiting for the phone to ring. I mean, I

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Speaker 2: just I don't want it anymore, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I you know, and I have my moments where sometimes

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Speaker 2: I go, yeah, you know, you're doing okay, But most

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Speaker 2: of me, it's kind of like the opposite, Like you know,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I've talked. I've talked to other actors,

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Speaker 2: you know, to friends about how we actually get through this.

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Speaker 2: I think you would probably agree. And when when I

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Speaker 2: when I ask about the process of how you actually

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Speaker 2: got involved and got your you know, sad card and

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Speaker 2: that kind of stuff. I think that one of the

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Speaker 2: things is that you wake up every day and you

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Speaker 2: do some kind of baby step towards what it is

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Speaker 2: that you're hoping for, so you don't let the big

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Speaker 2: big picture, you know, kind of overwhelm. You focus on

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Speaker 2: what what and I do today? You know, because the

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Speaker 2: hard thing about if you're a violinist, you know, you

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Speaker 2: got your violin, you can take it out and play

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Speaker 2: all day, you know. If you're an actor, it's kind

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Speaker 2: of hard to just walk around and act.

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Speaker 3: That's so true.

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Speaker 2: But that's so I mean, I find this story so

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Speaker 2: inspiring from so many levels. I mean the terror that

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Speaker 2: your parents went through with their their their lives on

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Speaker 2: the line, being able to escape, then coming to the

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Speaker 2: UK with nothing. This scholarship, this all the work that

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Speaker 2: you put in towards towards the medical career, and that

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Speaker 2: you even you know, specifically wanted to help babies. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I everything is is just very very inspiring and I

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Speaker 2: and I really do think that making it's so terrifying

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Speaker 2: when you're twenty four. You don't feel like a kid.

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Speaker 2: Right now, at my age, I think it's someone the

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Speaker 2: twenty four I think of them sort of a dang kid.

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Speaker 2: But when I was twenty four, there was no part

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Speaker 2: of me that thought of myself as a as a kid.

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Speaker 2: And to make a giant turn in your life at

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Speaker 2: that point I had the courage to say, you know,

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Speaker 2: I think I want to put them the stethoscope and

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Speaker 2: pick up a script is just it's it's very it's

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Speaker 2: very inspiring to me if I think kind of fascinating,

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Speaker 2: Thank Ken, are you working now?

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Speaker 3: You know what's odd is I the the past ten months,

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Speaker 3: of course, I've been just committed and diverted to this

359
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Speaker 3: woman life freedom revolution in Iran. But before that you know,

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Speaker 3: I was working and he did you know, all of

361
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Speaker 3: the rings and again, like you, much like you, I'm

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Speaker 3: waiting for the for the phone to ring. And and

363
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,320
Speaker 3: but also I've been really happy with sort of turning

364
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Speaker 3: down the work in the past ten months because this

365
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 3: has been for my focus and I've really been happy

366
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Speaker 3: to sort of stay focused on this. It's not sustainable.

367
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Speaker 3: We have to make livings and we have to sort

368
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Speaker 3: of keep doing the work, and also to nurture our

369
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Speaker 3: artistic brains. Because I don't know about you, Kevin, but

370
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Speaker 3: when I'm when there's a lull, I do feel like

371
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Speaker 3: something's missing. I feel like I need to get back

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Speaker 3: in the groove of things and be in an artistic community.

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Speaker 3: And so, yeah, it's getting to that point.

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Speaker 4: Now.

375
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Speaker 2: Have we turned any kind of a corner in your mind?

376
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Speaker 2: You know, you spoke briefly about being in a post

377
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Speaker 2: nine to eleven situation being an Iranian actress with the

378
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 2: ARII and name the limited possibilities in terms of people's

379
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Speaker 2: minds casting wise, Have we turned any kind of a

380
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,720
Speaker 2: corner and in terms of that in our industry, do

381
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Speaker 2: you think, because I just wonder if there's been any movement.

382
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've I've deliberately tried to make choices

383
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,520
Speaker 3: I think that have veered away from being pigeonholed and

384
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Speaker 3: that sort of like just stereotype. I was lucky because,

385
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Speaker 3: you know, twenty eleven, I got the role of Nora

386
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Speaker 3: on How I Met Your Mother, which was she was

387
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Speaker 3: just a girl and and sort of the first real

388
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,840
Speaker 3: love to Bernie Stinson. And she happened, I happened to

389
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Speaker 3: be Iranian, but there was no mention of you know,

390
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,919
Speaker 3: where she's from or background.

391
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Speaker 2: She was just English. Did you do an English accent?

392
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Speaker 3: I did my own accent yet, And it was fun

393
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,440
Speaker 3: to do a comedy and just to play a woman

394
00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,719
Speaker 3: and not be sort of stereotyped, to pigeonholed. And then,

395
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 3: of course, right after that Homeland where I did play

396
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 3: a Muslim Iranian woman with a headscarf, and it was

397
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 3: just thank you, and it was such a lesson in

398
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,720
Speaker 3: sort of you know, it was a step in the

399
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 3: right direction. At the time, I knew what they were doing,

400
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 3: which was not all Muslims are bad and not you know,

401
00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 3: let's portray this positive character. This is a sort of

402
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,840
Speaker 3: epitome of what it's like to be a representation of

403
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:23,320
Speaker 3: just a Muslim woman and not a not a baddie

404
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,399
Speaker 3: or a villain, right, and so that was a step

405
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,240
Speaker 3: in the right direction today, by today's standards, if we

406
00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 3: look at that, we would say, okay, maybe there was

407
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 3: room for sort of adjustment. And then it kept growing

408
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 3: and growing after that. Of like, you know, I think

409
00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,760
Speaker 3: things are shifting, They're heading in the right direction, for sure,

410
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 3: you do.

411
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Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad to hear it. I'm glad to hear

412
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 2: you say that. Well, talk to me about women life freedom.

413
00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,800
Speaker 2: It seems to be we highlight a lot of organizations.

414
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 2: This feels a little bit more like a movement than

415
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Speaker 2: an actual organization. Am I correct in that?

416
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, it's a movement. It's the slogan, it's

417
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,359
Speaker 3: essentially the battle cry in the aftermath of the murdering

418
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Speaker 3: custody Massagena. I mean, of course, the twenty two year

419
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 3: old kadish Iranian woman who was arrested for quote unquote

420
00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 3: inappropriate hijab by the again so called morality police. It's

421
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,439
Speaker 3: such a dystopping reality they live in. I've had my

422
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: own run in with the morality police in when I

423
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,119
Speaker 3: visited Iran when I was twelve, and it was a

424
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,240
Speaker 3: really harrowing experience of just being grilled, and it was

425
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,920
Speaker 3: a glimpse into sort of the daily indignities that women

426
00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 3: and girls face in Iran. And so in the aftermath

427
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:47,760
Speaker 3: of her murder, people rose up and the battle cry

428
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 3: became woman life Freedom, which is essentially, we want women's

429
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,239
Speaker 3: rights and equality and we want the you know, we

430
00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 3: want a normal life, and we want freedom. And that quickly,

431
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 3: you know, women took the streets, young girls took the streets,

432
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Speaker 3: taking off their compulsory her jobs.

433
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Speaker 2: And incredible to watch from here.

434
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's so inspiring and saying the slogan's slogan woman

435
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 3: life Freedom. That led to sort of a pro democracy

436
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 3: uprising because I think what people don't realize is that

437
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 3: Massa wasn't just young and a woman. She was also

438
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,119
Speaker 3: a member of an ethnic and religious minority group. She

439
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 3: was a Curred and she was a Sunni Muslim. And

440
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,639
Speaker 3: so what it did to society was anybody who's a minority,

441
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,800
Speaker 3: anyone who's fighting for any kind of right, basic human right,

442
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,639
Speaker 3: understood that until women and girls have their freedom, democracy

443
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 3: won't prevail. So it became a pro democracy uprising and

444
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,200
Speaker 3: they're still going. We may not see the numbers on

445
00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,480
Speaker 3: the streets but as much as we did in the

446
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:52,000
Speaker 3: past few months, but that that sort of revolution is

447
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,440
Speaker 3: in their hearts and their minds. And I talked to

448
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 3: people in the on the ground every day and they

449
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:58,720
Speaker 3: are saying, please, don't give up on us, which is

450
00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 3: why I'm so grateful to you, Kevin for spotlighting this now.

451
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,719
Speaker 2: Is it all? I'm wondering about that because is it

452
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: a the fact that we haven't been seeing that much

453
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 2: of it in it? I mean, obviously people have such

454
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 2: short memories in this age that we're living in. Is

455
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 2: that a function of the movement being sort of squashed

456
00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,920
Speaker 2: or is it a temporary thing? I mean, what can

457
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:31,880
Speaker 2: we learn about that?

458
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: That's a great question. I you know, these uprisings really started.

459
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:40,000
Speaker 3: What people don't realize, the anti compulsory HDJAB uprising started

460
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 3: in December twenty seventeen. They've been ebbs and flows. The

461
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:50,200
Speaker 3: only real big break and the uprising has been the pandemic,

462
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 3: which which is very talented, tells you everything about the

463
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,240
Speaker 3: Iranian people. They don't want to put other Iranians at risk,

464
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,480
Speaker 3: so they won't take to the streets if they feel

465
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:03,160
Speaker 3: like they might be contagious and they'll get somebody else

466
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 3: sick and that might lead to their death. But they

467
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 3: are very willing to take to the streets and risk

468
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 3: their own lives, you know, at the hands of the

469
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:15,119
Speaker 3: regime so called security forces, and take a bullet. I mean,

470
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 3: they're being shot in the eyes and blinded. They're being

471
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,679
Speaker 3: young girls, are being school girls are being gassed, and

472
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 3: yet they keep protesting. Of course, it's not sustainable because

473
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: the reason we're not seeing the numbers on the streets

474
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,719
Speaker 3: is because after being killed and tortured and raped and

475
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,360
Speaker 3: all these things, there's only so much people can take.

476
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 3: So you see sort of them, you know, taking a

477
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: step back, regrouping. But the ebbs and the time between

478
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 3: the ebbs and the flows are getting shorter and shorter.

479
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 3: I don't doubt that that we're going to see another

480
00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 3: mass uprising soon. The question is, can we the international

481
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,640
Speaker 3: community step up this time, make sure Iranians have internet access,

482
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,720
Speaker 3: really condemn and hold the Iranian regime to account, and

483
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,199
Speaker 3: stand with the Iranian people. As long as we keep

484
00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: negotiating with their leadership, as long as we normalize them,

485
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 3: we we're not really standing with the people. We need

486
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 3: to all we need to do is stand with the

487
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 3: people so that they decide what they want for their

488
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:12,119
Speaker 3: own future.

489
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:17,120
Speaker 2: That's an excellent, excellent point I want to bring into

490
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 2: this conversation, Roya pr I. First off, thank you welcome

491
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: and thanks for joining us. Do the two of you

492
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 2: know each other?

493
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 3: Yes?

494
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, we do?

495
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 2: Oh okay, okay, And how are you, Roya?

496
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 4: I'm fine. I'm somehow struggling with a lot of ups

497
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 4: and downyl's but at this roll rules I'm better. I'm

498
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 4: getting better. But you know, I always say that until

499
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 4: we overthrow this regime, the Islamic Republic of your own,

500
00:27:53,640 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 4: and until we steak justice will be able to gain

501
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 4: justice in your own I think I'm not going to

502
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:11,960
Speaker 4: be fine till that time, but I'm better now.

503
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 2: First off, let me just say from the bottom of

504
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 2: my heart, this is a very difficult thing for you

505
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 2: to discuss, and I am truly truly sorry for your

506
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 2: loss and up and thank you for having the courage to,

507
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 2: you know, to take that terrible situation and use your

508
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: voice to try to try to facilitate some kind of

509
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 2: change in people's thinking. But can you just tell us

510
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 2: the story first?

511
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 4: Of all, thanks for having me her, It's a lot alert.

512
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,120
Speaker 4: I was born in your own I was born in

513
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 4: the city of Kerlouansha. It's a Kurdish city. I'm a

514
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 4: Kurdish girl. I was born in the Kurdish family. My

515
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 4: family were pretty decent, like, I had a healthy family,

516
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 4: not traumas. Even the fact that I was growing up

517
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 4: in a society under the control of an outdated regime

518
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,760
Speaker 4: with with outdated ideologies they have the design of republic.

519
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 4: I think I had a good life. We were good together,

520
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 4: me and my family. I have two siblings. I have

521
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,320
Speaker 4: a brother sister, both older than me, and I was

522
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 4: the last child. Took kind of spoiled. So and my family,

523
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:53,720
Speaker 4: they were not religious at all. And on my father's side,

524
00:29:53,920 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 4: actually we uh we were Jarasan, which is uh religion

525
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,160
Speaker 4: in the Kurdish province. It is uh. A lot of

526
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 4: people there are a part of that community and uh

527
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 4: uh their religion is Arson. But me myself, we I

528
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 4: don't believe in anything like an agnostic and yeah, so

529
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 4: religion was not a big deal in our family. So

530
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:36,240
Speaker 4: somehow in my house, in my family, I had freedom.

531
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 4: But you know, when you go out, when you municate.

532
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 4: It's it's like you become a hypocrite. You have to

533
00:30:45,960 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 4: show something, especially in UH school, in UH universities, and

534
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 4: when you go to administrations to do something, you have

535
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 4: to become something else.

536
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: Something to life. It's like you have exactly you have.

537
00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:06,440
Speaker 4: To always put on WS. This was, you know, the

538
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 4: explanation that I thought that I need to make, yeah,

539
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 4: before I get into the story.

540
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 2: So it was, It's great, It's very helpful, it's fascinating.

541
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 4: Thank you. So it was on September twenty, twenty twenty two.

542
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 4: That morning, I was with my mom at home and

543
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:37,760
Speaker 4: we used to go to the gym with each other.

544
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:44,360
Speaker 4: So she was a bit away from exercising and she said,

545
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 4: I'd better start exercising and yon and coming to the

546
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 4: jedil with you. But I don't. That day, I was,

547
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 4: I felt a bit sick, and I just told her

548
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 4: that I'm not really in the mood. I don't feel well. Uh,

549
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 4: And we didn't go. After that. At lunch story, I

550
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 4: got out of home and that was the last time

551
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 4: with selwein Wo. I went to join my friends for

552
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 4: the launch and after that I had to go to

553
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 4: my brother's house to peep the cats because they were

554
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 4: a traveling they were in Tehu. So yeah, I didn't

555
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 4: know that she was going to join the protest. She

556
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,440
Speaker 4: didn't tell me anything about it. She just saw me

557
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 4: maybe uh she would go, uh do some pain poll.

558
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: Because why do you think she didn't tell you about it?

559
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: I'm curious. I don't think.

560
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,000
Speaker 4: I don't think there is no I don't think she

561
00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:56,360
Speaker 4: wanted to keep its secret like she was worried, uh

562
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 4: like if I joined her. No, I think it was

563
00:33:02,240 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 4: like a sudden decision that it was just like her.

564
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 2: It was kind of like on her route. Maybe she

565
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 2: just got a sense that it was happening and decided

566
00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: to join in.

567
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it was not unexpected because my mom she

568
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 4: used to participate in the previous uprisings, like uprising in

569
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 4: twenty nineteen, twenty twenty which people are you know, they

570
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 4: call it the Bloody November or Bloody Alburn, And she

571
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 4: participated in that in a green movement. And yeah, all

572
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:45,800
Speaker 4: of my family they were always opposed to the Islamic Republic.

573
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 4: So she felt that responsibility and she always cared about people.

574
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 4: She was I'm not saying this because just my mom.

575
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 4: Everybody loved their room. But yeah, she is truly curring parted.

576
00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 4: I think she did what she had to and asked

577
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 4: her and uh sorry. And when she got out, my

578
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 4: father was with her. It was seven point thirty, Yeah,

579
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 4: waiting around that time. She said to my father that

580
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 4: she wants to Corney Street drying protests. And my father

581
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 4: was really worried as we already seen that they kill people,

582
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 4: like in the Bloody November it said that they have

583
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 4: killed one thousand, six hundred people. So he was worried

584
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:47,880
Speaker 4: about her, and he said that don't go, and she

585
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,319
Speaker 4: told her, told him that if I don't go and

586
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 4: you don't go, then who will go. Then the youth

587
00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 4: will go out and they will be killed. So that's

588
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 4: how she felt about this, right, she felt sympathy and

589
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:14,080
Speaker 4: empathy for Massa, for Genier, a twenty two year old

590
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 4: girl and was killed just for improper a job she

591
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:24,399
Speaker 4: had a job on. It was just not proper to them,

592
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:31,720
Speaker 4: to the morality police, and it's just really absurd. It's ridiculous.

593
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:38,320
Speaker 4: And her death was like a spark like the society.

594
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 4: They had the potential, they had the anger towards the

595
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 4: regime because they were struggling with a lot of things

596
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 4: in your lives, the lives that the Islamic Republic made

597
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 4: for them. They were struggling with poverty, with discrimination, gender partheid,

598
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 4: corruption in everything like administrations, the ecologomy, with that they

599
00:36:05,880 --> 00:36:10,439
Speaker 4: don't have a basic human rights. So they were fed

600
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 4: up with it. Yeah, as I said, my mother, she

601
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 4: was always host to this regime.

602
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,359
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a terrible, terrible piece of news to

603
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,719
Speaker 2: get and devastating I'm sure for your father and for

604
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 2: your siblings. But it seems as though you have decided

605
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 2: to uh kind of take it and start using your

606
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,040
Speaker 2: voice in terms of this. And I'm and you know,

607
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I would think that a lot of people

608
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 2: would kind of go the other direction, you know, would

609
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: sort of say, well, this is just too painful and

610
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:01,560
Speaker 2: not to mention too danger terius and to life threatening

611
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: to be able to you know, kind of speak about this.

612
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 2: What what what is it that that made you specifically

613
00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:13,320
Speaker 2: want to get involved and continue to you know, uh,

614
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 2: carry on your mother's legacy of wanting to want to change.

615
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 4: In the beginning, Uh, the way that I protested against

616
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:30,320
Speaker 4: what happened, uh, what they did to my mother and

617
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 4: to my family, it wasn't in words. I didn't speak.

618
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 4: I showed it with a picture. That was my way

619
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 4: because somehow I'm an intulbird person and I can't really

620
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 4: put my feelings into words. I managed to uh take

621
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,840
Speaker 4: that picture and look into the camera with my hate

622
00:37:56,000 --> 00:38:00,520
Speaker 4: head shape and with my hair and my hairs. That

623
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 4: that was it. That was all that I felt. And

624
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,720
Speaker 4: people received waring message. People understood that feeling, that anger

625
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,479
Speaker 4: that I had in that grief, and I wanted that

626
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:20,799
Speaker 4: that picture to uh go viral and uh to be

627
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 4: seen and and somehow it's with its then viral like

628
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 4: not not the way that I expected, because it was

629
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 4: just not Iranians like people outside Iran and seeing that

630
00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 4: picture and felt what I felt. So now so yeah,

631
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 4: at the beginning it wasn't with h speaking up. But

632
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 4: after I got out of Iran, so I first I

633
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,480
Speaker 4: went to Turkey and I stayed there and then I

634
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 4: went to friends. That was the time that I had

635
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 4: I was able to speak up. When we met President

636
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 4: Nakan with a group uh like with UH journalists and

637
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 4: activements political activists, mass miss uh load and woman and

638
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:25,280
Speaker 4: Shimubibi which uh these two they were also breathed like uh,

639
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 4: she was that UH was abducted by Isladic Republic and

640
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 4: the father of Ladin women UH was killed, was.

641
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 3: UH terrorized a terrors uh?

642
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 4: And yeah, that was the time that uh I found

643
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 4: a platform to speak. And at that time I literally

644
00:39:54,600 --> 00:40:00,080
Speaker 4: uh think like properly, like I was like in a

645
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:03,719
Speaker 4: Hilight modes and I felt like, Okay, this is the

646
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 4: right thing to do. This is an opportunity and I

647
00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 4: have to use it to speak on behalf of the

648
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 4: lost voices like gray wolves.

649
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 2: Uh.

650
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:25,319
Speaker 4: So I continued accepting some interviews. Yeah, and then I

651
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 4: applied for visa for UK. My sister she's living in UK.

652
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,720
Speaker 4: So I had no one in h friends, no channeling members.

653
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:39,879
Speaker 4: So I was granted visa and I went to UK.

654
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:41,960
Speaker 2: And now you have you don't have it. You don't

655
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 2: have a British accent yet?

656
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, yes, because in Iran the English classes are

657
00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 4: mainly uh in American accent. They don't.

658
00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 2: The correct kind of English.

659
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:06,720
Speaker 4: Yeah. So uh. Yeah it continued my uh like my activities,

660
00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,799
Speaker 4: but I'm not that active because it needs a lot

661
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 4: of energy. I'm not an activist yet. This is not

662
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 4: the path that I have chosen. I could never think

663
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:25,600
Speaker 4: of this like uh, you know, uh, this happening to me,

664
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,560
Speaker 4: and you know, going into this path, I don't see

665
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,160
Speaker 4: myself like this kind of person who would be active

666
00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 4: and becoming activists and what would.

667
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:40,240
Speaker 2: You like, what would you like to be doing in situations?

668
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:46,080
Speaker 4: So I was always interested in arts. Unfortunately I couldn't

669
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,480
Speaker 4: do that in uh Iran because in the city that

670
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 4: I lived lived in in cameon Shaw. The university is there,

671
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 4: they don't have artistic majors. So when I was there,

672
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:07,600
Speaker 4: I chose architecture because okay, it has argulated. Yeah, so

673
00:42:08,320 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 4: I started to a study architecture, but it wasn't really

674
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 4: a big deal for me.

675
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 3: I was really, guy, how did you connect? I? First off,

676
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 3: she roy You're so brave, and you know, we've known

677
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,160
Speaker 3: each other for a few months now. I first spoke

678
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 3: to Roya through a mutual friend when she was in Paris.

679
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,719
Speaker 3: She was still in Paris and she was seeking to

680
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 3: go to the UK to join her sister where she

681
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 3: is now. And and so I think a bunch of

682
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:41,959
Speaker 3: us just sort of tried to talk to the UK

683
00:42:42,239 --> 00:42:44,799
Speaker 3: government and the American government to try to get her

684
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:47,879
Speaker 3: visit to one or the other, but preferably the UK

685
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 3: so she could be with Massa, her sister, her lovely

686
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 3: sister who I've had I've now had the honor of

687
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:57,040
Speaker 3: meeting in person both of them, and your courage, Roya.

688
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 3: You know, like you said, you didn't choose this part.

689
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 3: Some of us have chosen this path. You didn't, that

690
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 3: you were thrown into it. But what stands out to

691
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,279
Speaker 3: me is the grace with which you've handled this situation.

692
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 3: You're impeccable English, which I'm just still I can't believe

693
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,759
Speaker 3: your English is so good, that you conduct yourself in

694
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,759
Speaker 3: these interviews so well. And I think the first time

695
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 3: I became fully aware of her courage and her and

696
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 3: just everything she's endured was when she met with President

697
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: mccran and how eloquently you spoke, and the courage and

698
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 3: how much you inspired so many of us and the

699
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 3: message of keep going. We need your help because unfortunately

700
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 3: Roy's story and massive story are not unique, and there's

701
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 3: so many kids who've lost Now I say, kid, Rory,

702
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 3: You're not a kid, but you know you'll always be

703
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 3: a kid to your parents who've lost parents, or parents

704
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 3: who've lost children and siblings, and the list goes on

705
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,320
Speaker 3: and on. But there's this incredible logan for every person

706
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 3: who gets killed, a thousand will rise up behind them.

707
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: And I think that's what Roya personifies, is this idea

708
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 3: of one person standing up and galvanizing thousands of people

709
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 3: for the cause.

710
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:19,440
Speaker 2: You know. That brings me to the question of we

711
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 2: sit over here and see what's going on over there

712
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 2: and sometimes scratch our heads in terms of how we

713
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 2: can be helpful and how we can get involved. And

714
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 2: I'm just wondering if there's a if either one of

715
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 2: you have any kind of suggestions in terms of that,

716
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:45,480
Speaker 2: you know, is there a call to action here that

717
00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:47,800
Speaker 2: we can explain to people.

718
00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,000
Speaker 3: Yes, and maybe Roya has something to add to this,

719
00:44:51,080 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 3: but I would say, please, there's a quite correctly said

720
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,920
Speaker 3: that Iran as a gender apartheid state that isn't legal

721
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:05,760
Speaker 3: recognized in international law. Apartheid only applies to race, whereas

722
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:09,879
Speaker 3: countries like Iran and Afghanistan women are segregated for men

723
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: and men and oppressed in a way that can only

724
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 3: be defined as gender apartheid. To get that legally defined,

725
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 3: please go to end gender Apartheid dot today and gender

726
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 3: Apartheid dot today, add your names and amplify as their

727
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 3: clear instructions of what the campaign is and if you

728
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: want to donate, please donate to Iran Rights dot org,

729
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:37,879
Speaker 3: the Abduraman Buraman Center and of course Ladan Buraman as

730
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 3: one of the people who went with Royal to see

731
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 3: President mccron Iran Rights dot org. Roya, do you have

732
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 3: anything to add?

733
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:50,480
Speaker 4: I always say that stand with people, stand on the

734
00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 4: right side up the history. I think we should always

735
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:03,000
Speaker 4: see the true from the people of a country. So

736
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 4: listen to them and hear what they have to say.

737
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 4: I know in the end it's the people that should

738
00:46:12,520 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 4: win this revolution and overthrow this regime. But any help, yeah,

739
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:22,759
Speaker 4: we would appreciate that. We're region go on.

740
00:46:24,520 --> 00:46:27,920
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, thank you, yeah, thank you. I mean,

741
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 2: roy I just have to say I think you are

742
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: an incredible person. I think that you know, as we mentioned,

743
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 2: you could run, you could hide, you could stay silent

744
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: for the rest of your life. And and as you

745
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 2: pointed out, this was not a this was not a choice,

746
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:50,120
Speaker 2: This was something that was thrust upon you. And to

747
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 2: stand up in the way that you have given this

748
00:46:55,040 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 2: these terrible, terrible circumstances is really nothing short of hero

749
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:05,759
Speaker 2: and so I wish you all the best with your

750
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:09,479
Speaker 2: art and your architecture and and.

751
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 4: Yeah maybe not architecture. I think I'm going to uh

752
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 4: do an art foundation to just figure it.

753
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 3: Figure it out.

754
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 2: That's great, you know, listen to in whatever you want

755
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:27,239
Speaker 2: to do. I can picture you being great at it.

756
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 4: Thank you. I need to add I'm in a safe

757
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 4: country somehow, so I think any Iranians that have been

758
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 4: victimized by Islamic Republic, if they have a safety zone,

759
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,640
Speaker 4: if they go to a safe country, I think many

760
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 4: of them would speak up. And I think there are

761
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 4: there are just a lot of people that are more

762
00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 4: brave than me. We have more carriage than those who

763
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 4: went to the streets and protested empty with empty hands

764
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 4: against the guards that had shotguns in their hands or

765
00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 4: even having machine guns, military machine guns like the massacred

766
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 4: that they did in the Kritish province in Iran. In

767
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 4: gen or life, life, freedom uprising. I think that is

768
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:39,400
Speaker 4: the real courage to me.

769
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, thank you for being here, nazing In.

770
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for highlighting this and also for

771
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 2: your work. Keep up your good work, beautiful work, keep

772
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,239
Speaker 2: doing it. I wish you all the best luck and

773
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 2: you know you we know that what we what we

774
00:49:02,360 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: like to talk about on this on this show is that,

775
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,640
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes people that are in the arts also

776
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 2: care about other things, and you're a perfect example of that.

777
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:20,879
Speaker 2: And so I applaud you for that and thank you and.

778
00:49:20,920 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 3: We thank you for you.

779
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you ever for caring.

780
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 2: Thank you right, absolutely, all right, Well, take good care.

781
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to another episode of six Degrees with

782
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:37,879
Speaker 2: Kevin Bacon, Nazenine and Roya's story. It's so poignant, it's

783
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: so relevant. This is a crisis that is going on

784
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:44,240
Speaker 2: right now. And if you want to learn more about

785
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:50,760
Speaker 2: woman life freedom movement, head to www dot end Gender

786
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 2: Apartheid dot today. You can find all the links in

787
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 2: our show notes. Make sure you subscribe to the show

788
00:49:57,239 --> 00:49:59,440
Speaker 2: and tune into the rest of our episodes. You can

789
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:04,400
Speaker 2: find six Degrees with Kevin Bacon on iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts,

790
00:50:04,600 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. See you next time.

791
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: If you are inspired by today's episode, please join us

792
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 1: in supporting SixDegrees dot org by texting the word Bacon

793
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: to seven zero seven zero seven zero. Your gift empowers

794
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,400
Speaker 1: us to continue to produce programs that highlight the incredible

795
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:27,600
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796
00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,120
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797
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:37,120
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798
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:40,359
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