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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name

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Speaker 1: is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday.

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Speaker 1: Time for an old Vault episode. This one originally aired

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Speaker 1: on March and it's called Jupiter the Destroyer Part one.

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Speaker 1: Uh So this is about about both the God and

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Speaker 1: the planet Jupiter and and they're potentially destructive power. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right, let's explore. Welcome to stot to Blow Your

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Speaker 1: Mind production of my Heart Radio. Hey, you welcome to

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is Robert Lamb

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Speaker 1: and I'm Joe McCormick, and today we bring you ill

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Speaker 1: omens from the planet Jupiter. Today is gonna be the

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Speaker 1: first of a two part series where we're going to

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Speaker 1: be looking at the planet Jupiter and how Jupiter interacts

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Speaker 1: with some some specific mythology about the wars before the

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Speaker 1: world we know, and how that also relates to some

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Speaker 1: very interesting scientific theories concerning the fate of the planets

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Speaker 1: in our Solar system and in star systems beyond throughout

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Speaker 1: the galaxy. But I start I wanted to start off

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Speaker 1: today by talking about the belief that the motion of

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Speaker 1: the planets can have dire effects on the fate of

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Speaker 1: creatures here on Earth. Of course, this is a long

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Speaker 1: time tenant of many of the world's different traditions of astrology.

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Speaker 1: But like if you read astrology today, Rob, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if you've had this experience, there's little sense in

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Speaker 1: in astrology today that like the planets are literally doing

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Speaker 1: physical things to you, like they're reaching down with I

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Speaker 1: don't know, with like gravity or winds or something to

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Speaker 1: have physical effects on your life. Rather, the mechanism that

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Speaker 1: is believed to to link the movement of the planets

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Speaker 1: or the constellations or whatever uh to your fate is

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Speaker 1: is a more obscure one. It's a kind of like

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Speaker 1: in visible almost kind of young ian um anti causal relationship.

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Speaker 1: Would you would you agree, Yeah, yeah, I would think so.

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Speaker 1: And I mean not that I spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time in the astrology section, but right, But sometimes people

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Speaker 1: have believed that the movement of the planets or the

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Speaker 1: constellations have more direct physical effects on the Earth that

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Speaker 1: can absolutely influence the fate of people or the fate

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Speaker 1: of nations. So I wanted to talk about one example

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Speaker 1: that we discussed way back when we did an episode

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Speaker 1: on Miasthma theory, and I remember the miasma theory was

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Speaker 1: a it was a theory of disease that predated modern

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Speaker 1: germ theory. It was the idea that disease was often

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Speaker 1: was spread by like bad vapors or foul smelling odors,

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Speaker 1: winds that went from you know, that that might come

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Speaker 1: up from the earth or down from heaven and would

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Speaker 1: bring the plague, or would bring malaria or something like that.

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Speaker 1: And so the example I wanted to look at was

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Speaker 1: how in the year thirteen, this was during the Second

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Speaker 1: Plague pandemic, when the bubonic plague was sweeping through Europe.

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Speaker 1: It was devastating towns and cities. Of course, people had

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Speaker 1: no understanding of what was actually causing the disease. So

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Speaker 1: King Philip the sixth of France called in scholars from

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Speaker 1: the medical faculty of the University of Paris to see

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Speaker 1: if they could figure out what was going on. And

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Speaker 1: the scholars discussed things, they researched the matter, and they

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Speaker 1: eventually came back with an answer. And their answer was this.

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Speaker 1: On March Mars, Jupiter and Saturn had all lined up

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Speaker 1: in conjunction and it happened within the House of Aquarius.

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Speaker 1: And this was bad because to these scholars, Uh, there

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Speaker 1: was a causative story to tell here. The conjunction of

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Speaker 1: Jupiter and Saturn, to them was said to bring death

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Speaker 1: and calamity, and the conjunction of Jupiter and Mars was

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Speaker 1: said to bring pestilence on the breeze. And then this

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Speaker 1: was both of the those things happening at the same time.

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Speaker 1: So here I'm gonna quote from a historian named ole

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Speaker 1: Jorgan Benedicto from his book The Black Death to thirteen

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Speaker 1: fifty three. Quote. In this astrological theory of epidemiology, Jupiter

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Speaker 1: was assumed to be warm and humid and to draw

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Speaker 1: malignant vapors both from the ground and from water, while

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Speaker 1: Mars was assumed to be hot and dry and therefore

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Speaker 1: had the capacity to kindle such malignant vapors into infective fire.

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Speaker 1: So under this theory, the movement of the planets would

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Speaker 1: be directly responsible for calamity here on Earth. Now, obviously,

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Speaker 1: scientists today do not put a lot of stock in

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Speaker 1: the motions of Jupiter and Mars in determining our fates.

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Speaker 1: But we did want to talk about some ways that

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Speaker 1: in a very real and material sense, local gas giants

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Speaker 1: and in our case, that would be Jupiter in particular.

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Speaker 1: We can also talk something about saturn Um can indeed

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Speaker 1: shape the face eat of creatures dwelling on inner rocky planets.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what we're going to focus on for

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Speaker 1: the next couple of episodes, a number of scientific ideas

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Speaker 1: about ways that the planet Jupiter could, like the Jupiter

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Speaker 1: of myth that we're going to talk about in a

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Speaker 1: few minutes, be a kind of cosmic destroyer or a

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Speaker 1: cosmic creator deciding the fortunes of earth bound mortals like us.

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Speaker 1: Without Jupiter, could we even exist? And how long could

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Speaker 1: life go on? So this should be a fun one.

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Speaker 1: If you know some of you out there, you might say, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not as crazy about the space episodes. And some

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Speaker 1: of you might say, well, you know, I'm not crazy.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy about the mythology episodes. Well, we're gonna have

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Speaker 1: a little bit of mythology and a little bit of

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Speaker 1: of space just spread throughout here. Um, So if you

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Speaker 1: hate both topics, I guess it's time to click off.

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Speaker 1: But I think we've heard from anybody who said that, No, no,

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Speaker 1: nob um. I just I know, uh, some people aren't

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Speaker 1: maybe maybe it's my mom. I'm not gonna can't remember

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Speaker 1: my mom. THATTT might be less into the space episods. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I guess one of the things about space, in talking

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Speaker 1: about it is I always feel that it is nice

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Speaker 1: to have some sort of human element there to to

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Speaker 1: sort of attach us to it. Now, a lot of

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Speaker 1: times that human element is just imagining if we are there,

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Speaker 1: you know, or or talk about how we might get

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Speaker 1: there one day, and just sort of put it in

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Speaker 1: in in that kind of human context. And there's gonna,

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Speaker 1: I guess, be some of that here. But for the

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Speaker 1: most part, uh, the mythology provides that there's like the

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Speaker 1: mythological idea of who Jupiter is, and then there is

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Speaker 1: the planetary idea of what Jupiter the planet is. And

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Speaker 1: it's ultimately a lot of fun to compare the two,

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Speaker 1: right though there might not be a lot of I

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Speaker 1: don't know, human interest or drama and looking just at

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Speaker 1: the icy ridges of Yapotus or something, right, but those

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Speaker 1: are some good icy ridges. But yeah, well, we'll try

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Speaker 1: to give you some some narrative context here when when

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Speaker 1: talking about the planets. So one of the first things

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Speaker 1: I wanted to mention was I was recently reading about

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Speaker 1: the etymology of the word Jupiter, and came across something

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Speaker 1: that I did not know but I actually found really interesting. So,

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Speaker 1: of course, the English word Jupiter comes to English through Latin,

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Speaker 1: where it is a Jupiter spilt with an eye at

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Speaker 1: the beginning. A lot of Latin words that start with

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Speaker 1: a J in English actually start with an eye. There

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Speaker 1: was no j in Latin, and this, of course was

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Speaker 1: the name of the sky god and the chief of

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Speaker 1: the Roman pantheon, Jupiter or Jove or Jupiter or Yove. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's why we refer to the moons of Jupiter as

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Speaker 1: the Jovian moons, right, synonymous in the Latin context. But so,

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Speaker 1: so I was reading about okay, well, what goes back

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Speaker 1: before that? It seems that the Latin word Jupiter traces

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Speaker 1: back to a Proto Indo European root. And I I apologize,

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Speaker 1: I don't know perfectly how to pronounce this, but it's

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Speaker 1: something like deuce fatter. And remember, of course Proto Indo

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Speaker 1: European in is a prehistoric lost language, so nobody speaks

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Speaker 1: it today. In fact, nobody spoke it at any time

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Speaker 1: that anybody was writing anything down. So this is a

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Speaker 1: this is a prehistoric, pre written language that was the

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Speaker 1: direct ancestor of a huge number of languages spoken throughout

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Speaker 1: Europe and Asia today. It was probably originally spoken by

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Speaker 1: people living somewhere around modern day Ukraine or southern Russia.

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Speaker 1: But it is a language that has to be reconstructed

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Speaker 1: by linguists by looking at all these different languages around

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Speaker 1: the world and sort of tracing back their common roots.

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Speaker 1: In this Proto Indo European language, do you spotter would

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Speaker 1: have meant something like daylight sky father, and this would

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Speaker 1: have been the sky god of the reconstructed Proto Indo

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Speaker 1: European religion. Now, if you hear in that they're deuice Potter,

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Speaker 1: you can hear where we get Jupiter from that. But

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Speaker 1: you can also probably hear where the word zoo can

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Speaker 1: be derived from that, right juice, And so again there

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Speaker 1: is a reconstructed form of this religion. We don't have

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Speaker 1: any written records of this religion. It existed before writing,

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Speaker 1: but scholars can conclude some things about it with pretty

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Speaker 1: high confidence by looking at what common elements appear in

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Speaker 1: very geographically separated religions that have a Proto Indo European

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Speaker 1: linguistic rout and this deity, this deuced potter one uh,

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Speaker 1: seems to be very common to religions that are spread

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Speaker 1: out all over the place. For example, this name formulation

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Speaker 1: also appears in the Sanskrit rig Veda, where you get

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Speaker 1: a god named like Diaus or something roughly equivalent to that.

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Speaker 1: But in Roman religion, in particular, this ancient sky god

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Speaker 1: tradition that of course had been channeled through the Greek

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Speaker 1: stories of Zeus. Remember the the Roman mythology and the

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Speaker 1: Roman gods are extremely close copies of the of the

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Speaker 1: Greek gods, and there might be there are some appreciable differences,

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Speaker 1: but there is enormous overlap between them. So for all

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Speaker 1: practical purposes, Jupiter is Zeus. But in the Roman tradition,

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Speaker 1: this god, this sky god, this chief of the pantheon,

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Speaker 1: came to be associated with the planet Jupiter, which had

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Speaker 1: been known since ancient times since it could be seen

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Speaker 1: with the naked eye. And of course Jupiter, the planet,

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Speaker 1: has mythological significance beyond the Roman connection. One example is

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Speaker 1: that in the ancient Babylonian religion, the planet Jupiter is

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Speaker 1: associated with another chief god, mar Duke, the chief god

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Speaker 1: of the city of Babylon. Uh he's the slayer hero

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Speaker 1: of the epic poem the Enuma a Leash, where there

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Speaker 1: is a primeval chaos monster named Tiamat, a sort of

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Speaker 1: saltwater dragon that arises from a previous generation of divine beings,

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Speaker 1: and then Tiamat threatens to destroy the younger generation of gods,

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Speaker 1: and mar Duke becomes sort of president of the God

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Speaker 1: Club by going out to slate Yamat and the monsters

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Speaker 1: at her command. And there are some interesting parallels here

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Speaker 1: because a mar Duke, like Zeus and like Jupiter, is

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Speaker 1: sort of a sky god. Now, I think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: that the broad contours of this story in the Inuma

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Speaker 1: a Leash have a very strong echo in Greco Roman mythology,

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Speaker 1: where Zeus, who would later become Jupiter to the Romans,

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Speaker 1: also has to overthrow and destroy a pre existent class

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Speaker 1: of divine beings to sort of pay the way for

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Speaker 1: the younger generation of gods to take power. And in

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Speaker 1: the Greek case, this earlier generation of divine beings were

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Speaker 1: the Titans. This conflict in Greek religion that pits Zeus

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Speaker 1: and the gods of Olympus versus the older beings of

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Speaker 1: the previous divine generation is sometimes called the Titanomicy. The

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Speaker 1: War of the Titans is what that means, Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: the Titanomicy is an example of what is sometimes referred

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Speaker 1: to as um a theomicy like THEO and then uh

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of it, you know, a war of

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Speaker 1: the gods. So the Titanomicy is just one in the

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Speaker 1: Greek tradition, in the Trojan war is also essentially a

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Speaker 1: Theo macky. There's also the Gigantomachi, which occurred after the

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Speaker 1: war against the gods. This is the war between the

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Speaker 1: Olympian gods and the giants who are the offspring of

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Speaker 1: Gaya and the blood of Chronos Um. Now, of course,

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Speaker 1: there are plenty of other religions that feature of THEO makis.

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Speaker 1: Of course, there's the Norse uh god between the Aser

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Speaker 1: and the van Air. There's the Vedic wars of the

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Speaker 1: Devas and the Ostras. There's the Water War of Chinese

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Speaker 1: mythology that that pitted the destructive water god U Gong

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Speaker 1: Gong against Zoo wrong, the fire god. And then of

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Speaker 1: course in Christian tradition we have this idea of a

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Speaker 1: war in heaven uh and and I'm sure there're there

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Speaker 1: are numerous other examples we could point to. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: seems to be very common throughout the myths of the

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Speaker 1: world to imagine that it's some ancient time there was

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Speaker 1: a conflict between a pre existent class of of divine

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Speaker 1: beings and then some like newer or younger class of

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Speaker 1: divine beings. It doesn't always break down along generational lines

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Speaker 1: like that, but it certainly does in the Greek example. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we kind of get into this in our I had

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Speaker 1: this idea of like, Okay, we have the King of

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Speaker 1: the gods, and he shall reign forever and ever. But

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Speaker 1: I feel like things feel a bit more tenuous with

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Speaker 1: these earlier models, because it's like, well, this have been

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Speaker 1: He's been ruling for a good three or four years now.

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Speaker 1: There were some there's some other guys that came before him.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what will come next. He has he

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Speaker 1: doesn't get along with everybody heavy lies the crown. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean it makes sense too, if you're basing your

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Speaker 1: ideas of of divine rule, uh in a mythological sense

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Speaker 1: on the on the examples of rule that you see

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Speaker 1: in the world around you. I mean, that's just the

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Speaker 1: nature of things. Yes. Uh. So, now I want to

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Speaker 1: move to reading a section from an ancient text known

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Speaker 1: as Hessia's the Ogany. This is the the Genealogy of

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Speaker 1: the Gods by the ancient Greek writer Hesiod, to give

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Speaker 1: some color to this story we're telling. But first I

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Speaker 1: need to set the stage before I get to the

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Speaker 1: part that we're going to read. So I'm necessarily doing

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Speaker 1: a bunch of condensing here, because there are a whole

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Speaker 1: bunch of stories about like which divine beings emanated and

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Speaker 1: gave birth to what. But the short version is there

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Speaker 1: have already been a couple of generations of divine beings

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Speaker 1: by the time we get the Olympian gods. Uh. The

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Speaker 1: earth deity Gaya and the sky deity Uranas or Uranus

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Speaker 1: Uranas together have a bunch of offspring. And these offspring

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Speaker 1: include these beings called the Hecaton Curries or the hundred handers.

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Speaker 1: H there were there were three of them, these three brothers,

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Speaker 1: and they had some amazing body plans, you might say, yeah,

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Speaker 1: fifty heads, a hundred arms. It's great. I really enjoyed

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Speaker 1: looking up mostly modern illustrations of what this could have

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Speaker 1: looked like, because there's a there's a temptation to want

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Speaker 1: to kind of draw a turbo goro. You know. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's been it's just too many heads and too many arms.

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Speaker 1: It just becomes this mass of limbs and heads. But

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Speaker 1: I've seen some people, some artists push this more in

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Speaker 1: the direction of kind of like an amorphous being, you know,

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Speaker 1: like it's the thing or some sort of a show

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Speaker 1: god or something. You know. Yeah, just a kind of

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Speaker 1: rat king god. Yeah. Now, Guya and Uranas also gave

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Speaker 1: birth to the Cyclopes, who you know, we know about those.

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Speaker 1: And then finally they gave birth to a bunch of

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Speaker 1: gods that were called the Titans, and two of these titans,

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Speaker 1: Chronus and Rhea. They together then sire a new generation

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Speaker 1: of gods with names that might be more familiar Poseidon, Hades,

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Speaker 1: demiter Hera, Zeus. Yeah, the members of the proper Greek

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Speaker 1: pantheon of gods. Right, But as we mentioned, heavy lies

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Speaker 1: the crown and Chronus. At this point, Cronus has assumed

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Speaker 1: the throne of the of the heavens after castrating his

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Speaker 1: father Uranas, so Chronus is in charge now. But Chronus

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Speaker 1: is jealous and paranoid like like many kings of Greek

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Speaker 1: myth are like a Chrysius. You know, in the Perseus narrative,

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Speaker 1: he fears his own offspring um and be because he's

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Speaker 1: been given an omen that one day he would be

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Speaker 1: dethroned by his own offspring. So every time Reya gives

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Speaker 1: birth to one of his offspring, Chronus would eat the

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Speaker 1: newborn child. But then Zeus is born, and I guess

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Speaker 1: Zeus is the youngest of the brood of the Olympian gods.

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Speaker 1: And here Ya plays a trick on Chronus. She feeds

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Speaker 1: him a rock. It's a very good trick. Instead, she

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Speaker 1: she sends the real Zeus off to hide away in

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Speaker 1: a cave and swaps out Zeus for a stone in

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Speaker 1: a blanket and hands it over to Chronus, and Chronus

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Speaker 1: just eats it up. And then Zeus is just training

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Speaker 1: in a cave like a big training montage, getting ready

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Speaker 1: for the rebellion against his father. Right, it's like Rocky

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Speaker 1: four when he's out in the snow, you know, lifting

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Speaker 1: the logs and everything getting ready. And so you have

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Speaker 1: to imagine Chronus. Here is Ivan Draco and Zeus is

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Speaker 1: Rocky and what's going to happen? Well, when Zeus has

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Speaker 1: grown up. He somehow tricks Chronus into vomiting up all

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Speaker 1: of Zeus's siblings, who are then able to join Zeus

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Speaker 1: in making war on Chronus and the Order of the Titans.

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Speaker 1: And they also enlist some of their allies, like some

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Speaker 1: of the other primordial beings come to fight on the

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Speaker 1: side of Zeus and the Olympians. The Cyclopes and the

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Speaker 1: hecaton Kerries. They had previously those last two classes of

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Speaker 1: beings had previously been imprisoned in the underworld of Tartarus,

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Speaker 1: and they're sort of set free, and they joined in

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Speaker 1: the fight. Zeus says to them, put down your chainsaw

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Speaker 1: and listen to me. It's time for you to join

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Speaker 1: in the fight, and they do. Now Here, we're gearing

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Speaker 1: up for battle. And Robert, are you ready for us

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Speaker 1: to read some from the theogony? That wasn't from the

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Speaker 1: theogony that you just quoted about the chain's house. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: that that was from a weird al dared stupid Well,

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Speaker 1: then then carry on. This translation appears in Thomas G.

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Speaker 1: Palma's Anthology of Classical myth Primary Sources in translation from

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Speaker 1: Hackett Publishing, two thousand four. So the Olympian gods take

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Speaker 1: their position. Quote they stood against the Titans on the

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Speaker 1: line of battle, holding chunks of cliff in their rugged hands.

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Speaker 1: Opposite them, the Titans tightened their ranks expectantly. Then both

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Speaker 1: sides hands flashed with power, and the unfathomable sea shrieked eerily.

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Speaker 1: The earth crashed and rumbled, the vast sky groaned and quavered,

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Speaker 1: and massive Olympus shook from its roots under the immortals

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Speaker 1: onslaught a deep trimmor of feet reached misty tartarus, and

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Speaker 1: a high whistling noise of insuppressible tumult with heavy missiles

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Speaker 1: that groaned and wind in flight, and the sound of

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Speaker 1: each side shouting rose to starry heaven as they collided

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Speaker 1: with a magnificent battle cry. And now Zeus no longer

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Speaker 1: held back his strength. His lung seethed with anger, and

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Speaker 1: he revealed all his power. He charged from the sky,

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Speaker 1: hurtling down from Olympos in a fury of lightning, hurling

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Speaker 1: thunderbolts one after another, right on target from his massive hand,

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Speaker 1: a whirlwind of holy flame, and the earth that bears

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Speaker 1: life roared as it burned, and the endless forest crackled

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Speaker 1: in fire, and the continents melted, and the ocean streams boiled,

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Speaker 1: and the barren sea. The blast of heat enveloped the

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Speaker 1: Thornian Titans, and the flame reached the bright stratosphere, and

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Speaker 1: the incandescent rays of the thunderbolts and lightning flashes blinded

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Speaker 1: their eyes mighty as they were, heat so terrible and

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Speaker 1: engulfed deep chaos. The sight of it all and its

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Speaker 1: sound to the ears, was just as if broad Heaven

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Speaker 1: had fallen on Earth. The noise of it crashing and

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Speaker 1: of Earth being crushed would be like the noise that

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Speaker 1: arose from the strife of the clashing gods. Winds hissed

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Speaker 1: through the earth, starting off tremors and swept dust and

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Speaker 1: thunder and flashing bolts of lightning, the weapons of Zeus,

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Speaker 1: along with the shouting and din into both sides, reverberation

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Speaker 1: from the terrible strife hung in the air, and sheer

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Speaker 1: power shown through it. I love it. One can imagine

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Speaker 1: like led Zeppelin or rage against the machine ring in

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Speaker 1: the background. Yeah, or Chronus is like the witch king

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Speaker 1: of Angmar and uh. But anyway, as Zeus and the

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Speaker 1: Olympians are, of course the victors in this war, the

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Speaker 1: titanomic he breaks in their favor. The Titans are defeated,

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Speaker 1: and they are chained up in tartar Us, so they're

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Speaker 1: could sort of thrown down into this hell like underworld

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Speaker 1: and and imprisoned there. And and there are a few

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Speaker 1: other disparate fates, like some of these primordial being side

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Speaker 1: with the Olympians. Uh Atlas is one of the Titans.

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Speaker 1: In particular, he's punished by being made to hold up

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Speaker 1: the heavens forever. But it'll be interesting to keep this

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Speaker 1: in mind later on when we talk about some of

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Speaker 1: the astrophysics today, is that this idea that Zeus or

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Speaker 1: his Roman counterpart Jupiter would have been these prolific destroyers

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Speaker 1: that paved the way for the status quo of today,

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Speaker 1: the you know, the way things have been ordained today

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Speaker 1: by defeating this ancient class of gods that had existed

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Speaker 1: since the beginning or shortly after it. And of course,

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Speaker 1: and another funny thing about Zeus and Jupiter is that

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Speaker 1: the slaying doesn't stop there. I mean, they are these

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Speaker 1: these gods are prolific destroyers throughout all time of myth Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because you know, they they won the crown through war

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Speaker 1: and then wars are required to maintain the order. And

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Speaker 1: then also you just have individuals who step out of line. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And you know, maybe in a way that is meaningful,

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Speaker 1: but also sometimes the idea is just in a way

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Speaker 1: where mortals are not are not allowed to question the

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Speaker 1: gods or or or in any ways like them. So

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Speaker 1: I thought we might run through some of the the

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Speaker 1: murders or I don't know, executions I guess attributed to

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Speaker 1: Jupiter and Zeus. Um. So first of all ones that

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Speaker 1: seemed to be more specifically aligned with the Roman Jupiter.

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Speaker 1: There's the story of Tillis Hostilius, who was killed by

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Speaker 1: lightning bolt for botching the reading of a sacred right. Um.

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Speaker 1: So you know it makes sense. Rights are important to religion.

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Speaker 1: All this is it's it's it's part of the framework

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Speaker 1: that's holding up the cosmic order of the universe. This

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Speaker 1: guy is getting it wrong, so Zeus sends a lightning

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Speaker 1: bolt down on him. Could you imagine if Seth could

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Speaker 1: throw lightning at us every time we screwed up reading something? Oh,

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Speaker 1: it would it would be it would be a blood bath. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Now we mentioned in um the Titano macky. Sorry. Now,

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Speaker 1: during the Titanomicy the war against the Titans. It's also said,

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Speaker 1: uh that Jupiter killed his father the titan Saturn right.

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Speaker 1: And Saturn is basically the equivalent of the Greek titan Chronus. Right.

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Speaker 1: You get into different versions of it, particularly, I think

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Speaker 1: some of the Greek variations of it, it's it's less

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Speaker 1: a clear picture of him having killed. Sometimes it's the

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Speaker 1: dividing up. I mean, it's it's kind of like when

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Speaker 1: you do them with a titan or a god. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, sometimes that kind of marvel uh universe system

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Speaker 1: comes into play where nobody really dies. There's always a

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Speaker 1: way they could come back. Now, murders attributed more properly

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Speaker 1: to Zeus. Um, boy, there there are a number of

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Speaker 1: them here. First there's Asclepius, and uh, this one's interesting

401
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Speaker 1: because he was essentially killed by Zeus for practicing necromancy,

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Speaker 1: for raising the dead. Asclepius was some kind of healer figure,

403
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Speaker 1: wasn't he. Yeah, But you're not supposed to heal too

404
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 1: much because when you're miss you're interfering with the divine

405
00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: order of things. That's over the line. Now there's salmon As,

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Speaker 1: who is executed for us actually pretending to be Zus,

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00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: that's a no no. Then there's another Titan here, the

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Speaker 1: Titan Minnotius, who is also killed during the war against

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Speaker 1: the Titans. And then when you get into the myth

410
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Speaker 1: of like Hayn, the like Haan was this individual. There's

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00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 1: a whole cool story to this. I think we've we've

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Speaker 1: touched on it before on the show. But essentially, uh,

413
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: he was punished by being turned into a wolf. But

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Speaker 1: he had a number of sons, and a lot of those.

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Speaker 1: If you look at lists of people that were killed

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Speaker 1: by Zeus, his sons make up a whole subsection of

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Speaker 1: that list. And then there's a faith on the son

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Speaker 1: of Helios, who is essentially executed for bad driving. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but bad driving with the sun chariot. So you know,

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Speaker 1: that's that's one thing. If if if you're just you know,

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Speaker 1: misusing a normal chariot, but if it's the chariot of

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Speaker 1: the Sun itself, well that's dangerous. And now you're toying

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Speaker 1: with the gods. But of course, beyond specific murders or

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Speaker 1: executions or killings however you want to establish them, Jupiter

425
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: or Zeus, you know, he tended to punish gods, mortals,

426
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 1: and Titans with various imprisonments transformation in his tortures. He

427
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 1: is the King of the gods, after all, and then

428
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,200
Speaker 1: he has to dish out this punishment to maintain cosmic balance.

429
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: But but also due to sort of the outside nature

430
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: of his own powers and his otherwise humanoid demeanor. You know,

431
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: he is still essentially a king. And while a human

432
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: king with human cravings and imperfections, it certainly has an

433
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: outsized ability to create chaos. Uh, it's even more so

434
00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: with the God of gods. So he's a being of

435
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,880
Speaker 1: intense gravity and mass, and those who involve themselves with

436
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,919
Speaker 1: him risk just being crushed by that mass. Right, And

437
00:25:38,960 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 1: this brings us back, of course to the planet, which,

438
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: as we mentioned earlier, you know, as you can tell

439
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 1: from the from the English word for the planet, the

440
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 1: Romans came to associate this chief of their pantheon with

441
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 1: the bright light in the sky that actually is the

442
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 1: planet Jupiter. Yeah, so obviously Jupiter is big. I don't

443
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: think that's gonna come as a as a surprise to

444
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: anyone out there. And some of the facts that we're

445
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,040
Speaker 1: gonna lay out for you here are kind of sort

446
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: of the typical songs of Jupiter that we must sing

447
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,280
Speaker 1: just to remind you how big Jupiter is in relation

448
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: to Earth. Uh So, let's refresh. First of all, Jupiter

449
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: is eleven times larger than Earth. That's in terms of diameter, right, Yeah,

450
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: if you line them up, Jupiter is more massive than

451
00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: all the other planets of the Solar System combined. That

452
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: is incredible, because there's some there's some other big ones.

453
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: Jupiter is three hundred and seventeen point eight times as

454
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: massive as Earth, and you could fit almost thirteen hundred

455
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,520
Speaker 1: earths inside of Jupiter. So basically, if Jupiter was a

456
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:46,040
Speaker 1: gumball machine and you were putting Earth's inside it, that's

457
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:49,119
Speaker 1: about how many you could fit. Uh So these are

458
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: pretty standard facts. I got these from NASA and from

459
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:55,679
Speaker 1: Universe Today, and yeah, you've probably heard them before, but

460
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: I think it it just bears reminding just how big Jupiter,

461
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: and therefore how massive, how just gravitationally potent and powerful.

462
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: You know, I bet you could fit more earths inside

463
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: Jupiter Earth was cube shaped rather than round. You ever

464
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 1: look at that like the packing efficiency of ball shapes

465
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: versus other shapes. Yeah, I guess, I guess so. Uh.

466
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: But it also it makes you wonder how many humans

467
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:24,240
Speaker 1: could fit inside Zeus or Jupiter the god, how many

468
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 1: gods can fit inside Chronus? It seems like a lot.

469
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: You know, well the baby gods, that's true, they're smaller

470
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: than Yeah. How big was that rock? You think that

471
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: Cronus had to eat like to trick him into thinking

472
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: it was Zeus? I mean, are we are we talking

473
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: just like a you know, hand sized rock or is

474
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: this like a mountain that he ate? I think it's like, well,

475
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's size the size of a baby god.

476
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: So then I guess the question is how big is

477
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:52,560
Speaker 1: a baby god? I don't know. Uh. There, so the

478
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: difference between Earth and Jupiter is so great that it

479
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:58,360
Speaker 1: can even play into our sci fi models and uh

480
00:27:58,359 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: and I think this is great because it's also I

481
00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: think helps make our point here. I was reading reading

482
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: about this. This is some work from David Boulderstone from

483
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: the University of Leicester. He asked a couple of questions

484
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 1: regarding Jupiter and planet sizes and energy. Back in twenty eleven,

485
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: this would have been an article title That's No Moon

486
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: by Boulderstone at All, published in the Journal of Special Topics,

487
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: University of Leicester. Department of Physics and Astronomy. Yeah, this

488
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,120
Speaker 1: is this journal is fun. It's an undergraduate journal, but

489
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 1: it's for papers by physics students, like working out the

490
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:38,880
Speaker 1: math of weird problems involving superpowers and destroying planets. I

491
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: think I recall one paper on there that was about

492
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: whether you could drive a boat in Jupiter's atmosphere. That

493
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 1: was really funny. Uh, it's it's stuff like that, So

494
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: you can find a lot of really fun topics. The

495
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,600
Speaker 1: topics are quite special in fact. Yeah, and as you

496
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 1: can guess from the title, that's no moon. This paper

497
00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: concerns the Death Star. So the main questions asked by

498
00:28:58,640 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: this paper and you should look it up if you

499
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: can find it for free online if you if you're

500
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 1: if you really want to geek out on your your

501
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: star wars and uh science. Here first of all, asked,

502
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: is it possible for something the size of the Death

503
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: Star so uh physical construction more or less the size

504
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 1: of of Earth's moon uh, to generate enough power to

505
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: destroy a rocky planet like Earth. And then the secondary question,

506
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,600
Speaker 1: if so, would it be possible to generate enough power

507
00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: to destroy a gas giant the size of Jupiter? So

508
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: a lot of this paper is about you know, doing

509
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: the math, making a number of necessary assumptions. Uh, and

510
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: without you know, geeking out too hard on questions about well,

511
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 1: what does a khyber crystal really do to energy and

512
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,400
Speaker 1: so forth. But ultimately they decided that the Earth is

513
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: well within the star, the Death Star's energy budget, so

514
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: it could totally blow up our planet, no questions asked.

515
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: Cool but good. But Jupiter, Jupiter, this would be a challenge. Quote,

516
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: Jupiter requires much greater energy demands and would put considerable

517
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 1: strain on the Death Star. To destroy a planet like Jupiter,

518
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: it would probably have to divert all remaining power from

519
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: all essential systems and life support, which is not necessarily possible. Okay,

520
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: So granted this is not like this is not firm

521
00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: and set side. Is this a speculation on the power

522
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 1: of the Death Star. But think about that. That is

523
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 1: how massive and tough the planet Jupiter is. If it

524
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,000
Speaker 1: was Jupiter versus the Death Star, the Death Star would

525
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: not completely win. Uh. The Death Star is not powerful

526
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:37,280
Speaker 1: enough to destroy Jupiter. No, Jupiter absolutely is a local bully.

527
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: Jupiter has a mass and a gravitational influence that is

528
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: unrivaled in the solar system, of course, apart from the

529
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: Sun itself. This does make me think of Percy Shelley's

530
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 1: verse play Prometheus Unbound, where the god Jupiter is the villain.

531
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,480
Speaker 1: He's this cruel, tyrant god who has to be destroyed

532
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 1: in order to free the world from his grip. And

533
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,719
Speaker 1: he he's destroyed with the help of this being of

534
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: the void called the Demogorgon, which we explored in a

535
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: was it was it last October that we did that

536
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: episode or maybe two octobers ago, But yeah, there's one

537
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: part where the spirit of the Earth itself is speaking

538
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:21,160
Speaker 1: of Jupiter in Prometheus Unbound, and it says, I dare

539
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: not speak like life lest heavens fell king should hear

540
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 1: and link me to some wheel of pain more torturing

541
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 1: than the one whereon I roll. So Earth is already

542
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: on a wheel of pain? What what if it gets worse?

543
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 1: Could could Jupiter put Earth on a worse wheel of pain?

544
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: The answer is yes, thank Okay. So here I wanted

545
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: to shift to talking about some astrophysics, and specifically I

546
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: want to get to a hypothesis put forward in in

547
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 1: one interesting paper that came out a few years ago

548
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: that has some parallel else to the titanomicy. So first,

549
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,800
Speaker 1: I think we should look at some exo planets, because

550
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: you know, it's weird. I can still remember a time

551
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: when the idea of planets orbiting other stars was mostly

552
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: a matter of speculation, you know, with a few stray

553
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 1: bits of evidence here and there. But within the past

554
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: decade or so, exo planet research has just exploded, and

555
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 1: I think this is largely due to a number of

556
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: new telescopes coming online and new detection techniques. But I

557
00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: remember one of the big moments here in the history

558
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: of exoplanet research was this dump of data on hundreds

559
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: of new exo planets from the Kepler Space Telescope. I

560
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: think this was Do you remember when this happened, Rob, Yeah, yeah, yes,

561
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 1: it was hugely illuminating. But it also raises these questions

562
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 1: about what kinds of planets are out there, and what

563
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: kind of differences do we see when we compare our

564
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: Solar system to the types of stellar systems that are

565
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: common throughout the galaxy. And so here I wanted to

566
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 1: turn to something interesting I was reading. It was a

567
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: blog post by the astrophysicist and science writer Ethan Seagull

568
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 1: called this is why you must never try and colonize

569
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 1: a super Earth planet. You've probably heard this term super

570
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: Earth so but that term can actually be fairly misleading,

571
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: and this post gets into why that is. And I

572
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: wanted to kind of follow his logic here. So first

573
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: of all, you can observe that here in our Solar System,

574
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: we've got two kinds of planets pretty much. You have small,

575
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: rocky planets with a thin atmosphere or no atmosphere, and

576
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,719
Speaker 1: those are those are closer into the Sun. So you've

577
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 1: got Mercury, Venus, Earth Mars rocky core, very little atmosphere

578
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 1: relative to gas giants. And then further out you have

579
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 1: these larger gas planets with some kind of solid or

580
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: metal core surrounded by dense gases extending out for thousands

581
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 1: of kilometers in radius. How do these different types of

582
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 1: planets form Well, the leading theory on the formation of

583
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: the planets is that our Solar System began as a

584
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: huge cloud of interstellar gas and dust floating in space.

585
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: And this would have been made up of atoms and

586
00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: molecules that were partially left over from previous generations of

587
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: stars that may have exploded in a supernova or been

588
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: torn apart in other events, you know, neutron star collisions

589
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,520
Speaker 1: and things like that billions of years ago, or just

590
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:27,479
Speaker 1: hydrogen that's been floating around out there in space since

591
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 1: the Big Bang. But so you've got all this gas

592
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: and dust just floating around, and at some point this

593
00:34:33,760 --> 00:34:38,240
Speaker 1: huge cloud of gas and dust collapsed, meaning it started

594
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: to fold in upon itself and become much denser. And

595
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:45,399
Speaker 1: there are certain they're there are different things that could

596
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: have caused this. Could have been caused by gravitational or

597
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: magnetic disturbances, maybe another star exploding nearby, sending material and

598
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 1: a shock wave through the cloud. Um But when the

599
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 1: cloud collapsed, all of that dense matter pull together by

600
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 1: gravity at the center of the cloud started to become

601
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,279
Speaker 1: a star, which would be our sun, but in this

602
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: kind of larval stage, it would be known as a

603
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 1: solar nebula. It's a cloud on the way toward becoming

604
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 1: a sun. So you can picture a kind of huge

605
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:20,360
Speaker 1: wheel of spinning gas and dust orbiting around a dense

606
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,839
Speaker 1: hot center and getting more thinned out as you move

607
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 1: out from the center. Now, eventually gravity pulls things together

608
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: so much that the material at the center of this

609
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 1: spinning disk under under all this heat and pressure. As

610
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 1: it gets denser and denser, starts to cause hydrogen atoms

611
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: to fuse into helium atoms, and this is the beginning

612
00:35:41,719 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: of the nuclear fusion reaction that powers our sun. And

613
00:35:45,239 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: of course this releases tremendous amounts of energy in the process.

614
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: You get radiation, heat, and sunshine. Meanwhile, the outer parts

615
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 1: of this spinning wheel, they keep spinning around the newborn

616
00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 1: star at the center, and eventually clumps of gas and

617
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,200
Speaker 1: dust in side this spinning disk start to be attracted

618
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 1: to each other and to attract more gas and dust

619
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,160
Speaker 1: to themselves because of gravity, and they form these larger

620
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,560
Speaker 1: and larger clumps of matter still in orbit around the star.

621
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: And of course these accumulating clumps would eventually turn out

622
00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: to be solid stuff like planets, moons, comets, and asteroids,

623
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: and one of the biggest of these early forming clumps

624
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,360
Speaker 1: would become Jupiter. Now, this is a normal way for

625
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: for star systems to form. But coming back to that

626
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: that blog post by Seagull that I was talking about,

627
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,720
Speaker 1: sometimes we would just assume that other stellar systems should

628
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:40,359
Speaker 1: be like ours, with small, rocky planets towards the you know,

629
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 1: in smaller orbits or closer orbits around the Sun, and

630
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: then bigger gas giants farther out. But actually it looks

631
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: like our Solar System is rather unusual in this regard.

632
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: To read from Seagull quote. When we look at our

633
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: most successful exoplanet hunting missions, Kepler and tests, the most

634
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: abundant class of world that a found is an in

635
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:06,200
Speaker 1: between type commonly known as super Earth's. Despite the allure

636
00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: of a planet that might be Earth like, only larger

637
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,760
Speaker 1: and with more room for life forms on it, super

638
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:15,319
Speaker 1: Earths are nothing like our science fiction imaginings. Here's why

639
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: you must never try and call an ice one. So

640
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,400
Speaker 1: in our Solar System, smaller rocky planets are close to

641
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: the star within what's known as the frost line, as

642
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: a certain distance out from from the host star, and

643
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: the outer planets beyond the frost line are these gas giants.

644
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: But actually we know now from exoplanet surveys that this

645
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: is somewhat arbitrary. Planets of any mask and any size

646
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: can orbit in very close to the host star. You

647
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: can have a planet as big as Jupiter orbiting really

648
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: close to our Sun, making a full circuit within days.

649
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: You've probably heard about these types of planets that referred

650
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,279
Speaker 1: to as hot jupiters, So it doesn't have to be

651
00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: the way it is here and uh and as see said,

652
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 1: the most common type of planet we've actually found out

653
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,280
Speaker 1: there are these super Earth So these would be planets

654
00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,879
Speaker 1: of two to ten Earth masses, So once you get

655
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: to about double the mass of Earth, you're in super

656
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: Earth territory. Now, an important thing to point out here

657
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: is that to some extent, by necessity, our picture of

658
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: what kind of planets are out there is going to

659
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,239
Speaker 1: be influenced by our detection methods, like what types of

660
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:30,840
Speaker 1: planets we are particularly good at spotting using the methods

661
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 1: available to us. So it's possible that these types of

662
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,919
Speaker 1: planets may be overrepresented in surveys. But still it does

663
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:40,280
Speaker 1: appear that there are lots and lots of super Earths

664
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 1: around stars throughout the rest of the galaxy. And despite

665
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,720
Speaker 1: the name, these super Earth planets are not necessarily much

666
00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: like Earth at all. One factor is how much gas

667
00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: these planets retain around them as they form. Because when

668
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 1: you think about a planet, you know whether it's a

669
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 1: rocky plant it like Earth, or a gas giant like Jupiter.

670
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 1: There are going to be a couple of things working

671
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: against each other that helped determine what types of volatiles

672
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,279
Speaker 1: you can keep stuck to you. One is going to

673
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:14,320
Speaker 1: be your mass and thus your gravity that really helps

674
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 1: keep the atmosphere stuck to you. But then another thing

675
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: is going to be is going to be solar radiation,

676
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:24,080
Speaker 1: because the Sun is always going to be blasting you

677
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 1: with solar winds and solar radiation that want to strip

678
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 1: away volatiles from the planet and blow them out into space.

679
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: And this is something we can see happening to other planets,

680
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: like I think you know. One of the theories of

681
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,759
Speaker 1: how Mars ended up with such a thin atmosphere today

682
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: is that it once may have had a thicker atmosphere,

683
00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: but the Sun kind of blasted that atmosphere further out

684
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: into space over time. Now it's nice for us that

685
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: Earth is able to maintain an atmosphere because we need

686
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 1: it in order to breathe, but actually having too much

687
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: mass and thus too much gravity and thus too much

688
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 1: atmosphere can really make it impossi sable for creatures like

689
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 1: us to survive on a planet. To read from seagull quote,

690
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: as long as the mass remains below a certain threshold,

691
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: the radiation from the nearby star will hit these easily

692
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 1: boiled gases and hit them with enough energy that they'll

693
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: escape from the planet in question. But it rise above

694
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 1: that threshold, and even the ultraviolet radiation and solar wind

695
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: particles emitted from the star within the Solar system won't

696
00:40:26,080 --> 00:40:30,239
Speaker 1: be able to kick those light atoms and molecules away. So,

697
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,560
Speaker 1: in other words, if you are too low in mass

698
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: and too close to the star, the star will blast

699
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,040
Speaker 1: away your atmosphere. But if you raise a planet's mass

700
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 1: beyond a certain threshold, it's gravity is going to get

701
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: so strong, strong enough to withstand that solar assault and

702
00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:48,840
Speaker 1: hold onto its volatiles like gases and water. And you

703
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 1: get enough mass together in one place, and it will

704
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:54,239
Speaker 1: start suctioning up material from all around it. It will

705
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,640
Speaker 1: become this great accumulator. And of course, if it gets

706
00:40:57,719 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: enough mass that atoms that its course are undergoing fusion,

707
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 1: then you've just created a new star. But if you

708
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,600
Speaker 1: if you're not, if you don't have quite that much mass,

709
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:10,120
Speaker 1: what you end up creating is a gas giant, a

710
00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: gas planet even even smaller than Jupiter and Saturn planets.

711
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,839
Speaker 1: More on the on the scale of Neptune are going

712
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 1: to have these thick, accumulated atmospheres that will make the

713
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: surface uninhabitable. So Seagull calls attention to a really important

714
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,959
Speaker 1: paper from published in the Astrophysical Journal by Jinging Chin

715
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 1: and David Kipping called Probabilistic Forecasting of the Masses and

716
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: Radii of Other Worlds. And this is basically a survey

717
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,560
Speaker 1: that says there are pretty much four types of planets

718
00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 1: that you expect to find in our in our galaxy,

719
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 1: you get rocky worlds like Earth, and then you get

720
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 1: gas planets with with big what was called volatile envelopes,

721
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: like Neptune. And then you get very big gas giants

722
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 1: like Jupiter, and then you get basically fully fledged stars.

723
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: Just a planet gets so big that it's a star

724
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,719
Speaker 1: in its own And one of the important things for

725
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 1: us here is that category of the Neptune like planets.

726
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,560
Speaker 1: Seagull points out that if you're talking about a planet

727
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,760
Speaker 1: with a density roughly equal to Earth's, which is about

728
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:17,799
Speaker 1: six grams per cubic centimeter, you can really only get

729
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: about thirty percent larger in radius than Earth is and

730
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,120
Speaker 1: still be a rocky planet. You start getting bigger than that,

731
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 1: and your mass means that you will be less like

732
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: Earth and more like Neptune, a minor gas planet clinging

733
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:36,400
Speaker 1: to a deep blanket of hydrogen and other gases with

734
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,920
Speaker 1: maybe thousands of times the atmospheric pressure of Earth at

735
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: the surface. So I feel like we don't appreciate this

736
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: enough when we think about this idea of you know,

737
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: super Earth's orbiting other stars, that you don't have to

738
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,759
Speaker 1: go much bigger than Earth before you're starting to turn

739
00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: into an uninhabitable gas planet, or at least uninhabitable for

740
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,239
Speaker 1: the kinds of life that we understand. And these kinds

741
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:02,800
Speaker 1: of planets litter the galaxy, planets that are a little

742
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 1: bit bigger than Earth, probably enveloped in a gas cloud

743
00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: that would make the surface fully uninhabitable for us uh

744
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:12,399
Speaker 1: seagull rites quote. Once you get to about twice as

745
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:14,879
Speaker 1: massive as Earth, or just about twenty five to thirty

746
00:43:15,360 --> 00:43:18,800
Speaker 1: larger and radius than our planet, you're no longer rocky

747
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,400
Speaker 1: with only a thin atmosphere, but are overwhelmingly likely to

748
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: be Neptune like with a full fledged, large envelope of hydrogen, helium,

749
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: and other light gases. And so for this reason, if

750
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: you hear references to the abundant super Earth's in the

751
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: Milky Way, these are not good places for humans to colonize,

752
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: probably not at least, and probably not great places to

753
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,720
Speaker 1: look for life that is a close analog to Earth life.

754
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: Some people have seen calling them many Neptunes rather than

755
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,920
Speaker 1: super Earth's. But this brings us back to an interesting

756
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,480
Speaker 1: question about our own solar system. Why does our Solar

757
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: system look like it does? Why does it have a

758
00:43:57,160 --> 00:43:59,719
Speaker 1: planet like Earth rather than a bunch of these in

759
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: vernal super earths like so many other stars in our galaxy?

760
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 1: And there was a paper published in Proceedings of the

761
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: National Academy of Sciences in that offers one hypothesis to

762
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: answer this, So why does our Solar system look the

763
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,919
Speaker 1: way it does? This paper is called Jupiter's Decisive Role

764
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: in the Inner Solar System's Early Evolutions is by Constantine

765
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,480
Speaker 1: Batigen and Greg Laughlin. Now, in addition to this paper,

766
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: I was looking at a couple of write ups on

767
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: it that quoted the authors, one in NAT Geo by

768
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 1: Andrew Physicis and one in Scientific American by Lee Billings.

769
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:38,640
Speaker 1: And so the short version here is that the authors

770
00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 1: of the study in argue that in the newly forming

771
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:48,279
Speaker 1: Solar System, Jupiter briefly migrated inwards from the place where

772
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 1: it first formed, and as it moved inward into the

773
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:56,320
Speaker 1: inner Solar System, it caused a series of cascading effects

774
00:44:56,360 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: that would have smashed other early forming super Earth's in

775
00:45:00,239 --> 00:45:03,479
Speaker 1: its wake, and that the current inner planets like Earth

776
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:08,040
Speaker 1: are actually formed from the debris left over after this

777
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:13,400
Speaker 1: catastrophic series of collisions caused by Jupiter's inward migration. And

778
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,840
Speaker 1: this broader hypothesis about the ancient inner migration of Jupiter

779
00:45:16,960 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: is sometimes called the Grand Tach hypothesis. Basically, it goes

780
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,280
Speaker 1: that lots of astronomers used to think that planetary orbits

781
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: were as a rule, highly stable and nearly circular, unlikely

782
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: to change. But when we look at other stars again,

783
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: that's just not what we find. Sometimes we see weird

784
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 1: kind of changes or eccentricities in planetary orbits. And so

785
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 1: to explain the Grand Tach hy hypothesis, I'm going to

786
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,320
Speaker 1: quote from this article in Scientific American by Lee Billings

787
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:49,799
Speaker 1: called Jupiter, Destroyer of Worlds, may have paved the way

788
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: for Earth, where Billings describes the Grand Tach hypothesis by

789
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 1: saying that it posits quote. In the first few million

790
00:45:57,360 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: years of our Solar systems existence, Jupiter migrated into and

791
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,080
Speaker 1: then back out of the inner Solar System, following a

792
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: course similar to a sailboats when it tacks around a buoy.

793
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 1: Back then, Jupiter would have still been embedded in a

794
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: gas rich disc. Much of that gas was spiraling down

795
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 1: towards the Sun, so much that the action would have

796
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 1: sapped some of Jupiter's angular momentum too, causing the giant

797
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: planet itself to spiral into the vicinity of where Mars

798
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:31,680
Speaker 1: is today. Jupiter would have kept falling in towards the

799
00:46:31,719 --> 00:46:35,360
Speaker 1: Sun if not for being caught by the subsequent formation

800
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,360
Speaker 1: of Saturn, which began drifting in as well. As the

801
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: two giant planets came closer together, they were caught in

802
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: an orbital resonance. This resonance expelled all the gas between them,

803
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: gradually reversing their death spirals and causing them to tack

804
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: back out to the outer Solar System. So this grand

805
00:46:54,680 --> 00:46:57,959
Speaker 1: Tach hypothesis, if true, would explain several things. It would

806
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 1: explain why Mars is so all when we might expect

807
00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: it to be larger. In the words of Billings. It

808
00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 1: would also explain the distribution of icy and rocky bodies

809
00:47:07,440 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: in the asteroid belt and other strange features of the

810
00:47:10,920 --> 00:47:15,320
Speaker 1: Solar System. But if the Grand Tack is correct, Jupiter's

811
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:17,759
Speaker 1: orbit would have strayed into the inner regions of the

812
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,799
Speaker 1: Solar System, and its gravitational influence would have caused the

813
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 1: realignment of the orbits of existing early forming super Earth's,

814
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: sometimes causing their orbits to overlap one another, and sometimes

815
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:35,799
Speaker 1: they would actually have major collisions. You would really only

816
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,840
Speaker 1: need one such catastrophic collision in order to have a

817
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,800
Speaker 1: chain reaction that could annihilate these early forming inner planets.

818
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,439
Speaker 1: One one crash could lead to what the authors here

819
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: called a collisional cascade. The studies author Greg Laughlin is

820
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 1: quoted in the in these news articles by saying, quote,

821
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 1: it's the same thing we worry about if satellites were

822
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 1: to be destroyed in Low Earth or it, their fragments

823
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: would start smashing into other satellites, and you'd risk a

824
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:09,439
Speaker 1: chain reaction of collisions. Our work indicates that Jupiter would

825
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,760
Speaker 1: have created just such a collisional cascade in the inner

826
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 1: Solar System. And to quote here from Billings quote, the

827
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,080
Speaker 1: simulation suggested that Jupiter's inward spiral would send swarms of

828
00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 1: one hundred kilometer wide planetary building blocks cascading into the

829
00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:30,280
Speaker 1: inner Solar System. The giant planet's gravity would also sling

830
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: those building blocks and the inner planets themselves into overlapping

831
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: elliptical orbits, creating an interplanetary demolition derby of whirling, colliding,

832
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 1: fragmenting worlds. Now this, I mean, this sounds like a

833
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 1: titanomic e Yeah to me. I mean this is a

834
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: war of the gods in which maybe the gods themselves

835
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: are not destroyed, but there's a lot of destruction um

836
00:48:53,719 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 1: going on between them. Yeah, exactly right. I mean that's

837
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 1: why I was making this connection. And I do want

838
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:02,800
Speaker 1: to be very clear we are suggesting a connection based

839
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: on like metaphorical similarities, because there are actually people in

840
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,279
Speaker 1: the more Velakovsky vein who think that you could draw

841
00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: literal parallels between things described in myth and ancient movements

842
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,120
Speaker 1: of the planets, which I think is not probably not true.

843
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: Like Emmanuel Velakowski, one of the things he wrote was

844
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:23,439
Speaker 1: that you know, like miracles described in the Bible, about

845
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,440
Speaker 1: like pillars of fire and stuff like that would have

846
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: been caused by ancient planets moving around in their orbits

847
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: and and uh, you know stuff like that. I mean,

848
00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:33,960
Speaker 1: there's no evidence for this in the modern world, but

849
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,360
Speaker 1: fantastically weird hypotheses that some people still believe for some reason,

850
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: not not actual scientists. All of this stuff we're talking

851
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: about would have been before we even had the Earth

852
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 1: as it exists today, So this would not have been

853
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: things that people could have witnessed. But the metaphorical similarity

854
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 1: to these uh you know, uh, theomicy myths is is

855
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,480
Speaker 1: fantastically cool. Yeah, and you can you can easily get

856
00:49:58,520 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: into comparisons of like what does it mean to have

857
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 1: terrific power? You know, whether you're that that power is

858
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 1: coming via the mass of some sort of a planet,

859
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: or if it's coming through the you know, the power

860
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 1: of a of a single warrior king in in history.

861
00:50:14,040 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: And I like that it's it's creating this metaphorical residence

862
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,480
Speaker 1: that it's not just Jupiter destroying this early generation of

863
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: of primordial beings like the Titans, but it's also creating

864
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: the new divine order because, according to the author's here,

865
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: a second generation of planets after this you know, destruction

866
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: cascade within the inner Solar System caused by Jupiter. If

867
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: this hypothesis is correct, a second generation of planets would

868
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: inform out of the whirling field of debris that's left over.

869
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:49,640
Speaker 1: So the pulverized remnants of these ancient super earths would

870
00:50:49,680 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: have a couple of fates, Like some of the debris

871
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,000
Speaker 1: would get dragged down into the Sun, and then some

872
00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:58,600
Speaker 1: of the leftover chunks would become the bodies of planets

873
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:02,760
Speaker 1: like Earth and Venus after Jupiter migrates back out away

874
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,080
Speaker 1: from the Sun again. Yeah, it's like in the aftermath

875
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 1: of the war. Um, you know, Zeus has to say, well, um,

876
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,799
Speaker 1: looks okay, Poseidon Hades, Um, we gotta divvy this up. Uh,

877
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,120
Speaker 1: somebody's gotta make the ocean's work. Somebody's got to keep

878
00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: the underworld running clean. Um, so let's let's get to it.

879
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: These are jobs now, now, the the aftermath of the

880
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: war defines our roles. Now. One thing that doesn't perfectly

881
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 1: match up with the story in Greek myth but does

882
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 1: seem just generally mythologically interesting is that if the Grand

883
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:34,960
Speaker 1: Tach hypothesis is correct, that Saturn would have been responsible

884
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: for pulling Jupiter out of the fray right, pulling Jupiter

885
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: back out away from the Sun. Now, Saturn again is

886
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,920
Speaker 1: associated with Chronus, the father of Jupiter, who was actually

887
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:48,960
Speaker 1: the main enemy here. So that part doesn't really line up,

888
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:51,479
Speaker 1: but but I like it anyway. Well, you know, don't

889
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: discount the bond between father and son. Who knows, even

890
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: after you fought one another in battle, right, And I

891
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: just imagine like the six hours Snider cut of this myth, Like,

892
00:52:02,480 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 1: I can imagine this scene where yeah, they've been battling

893
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 1: each other, but then, uh, you know, the Saturn reaches

894
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: out to him and and and and saves him from

895
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,719
Speaker 1: from destruction or something. My son, I am sorry, I

896
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: tried to eat you while digesting that stone, I realized.

897
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what he realized. I don't. I don't

898
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 1: think Chronus learns lessons. Chronus does not seem like a

899
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: lesson learner. Well, I don't know if any of the

900
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,080
Speaker 1: gods do, particularly, I mean not really. It's not really

901
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 1: a role for them. It's for mortals are the ones

902
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 1: who learn the lessons. Uh, the gods are the ones

903
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: who teach the lessons. Yeah, so I think that's maybe

904
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 1: gonna have to do it for this episode, but in

905
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,080
Speaker 1: the next episode we wanted to come back and look

906
00:52:43,120 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: at more interesting ways that the tyrant Jupiter could indeed

907
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 1: be the decider of the fates of Earth, acting as protector,

908
00:52:50,280 --> 00:52:53,080
Speaker 1: creator and destroyer all in one. So so come back

909
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: next time for more Jupiter myths and Jupiter science. That's right,

910
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,040
Speaker 1: should be a good time. In the meantime, if you

911
00:52:59,040 --> 00:53:00,799
Speaker 1: want to check out other that's the Stuff to Blow

912
00:53:00,840 --> 00:53:04,359
Speaker 1: Your Mind, including past episodes that have dealt with with

913
00:53:04,440 --> 00:53:08,319
Speaker 1: Saturn and Jupiter uh, mainly with the moons of of

914
00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: Saturn and then also the Jovian moons UH, then you

915
00:53:11,200 --> 00:53:13,400
Speaker 1: can find those in the Stuff to Blow your Mind

916
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,719
Speaker 1: podcast feed, and you can find that podcast feed wherever

917
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, wherever that happens to be. We

918
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: used to ask that you rate, review and subscribe. Huge

919
00:53:22,680 --> 00:53:26,240
Speaker 1: thanks as always to our excellent audio producer Seth Nicholas Johnson.

920
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,879
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

921
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,720
Speaker 1: with feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest

922
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: a topic for the future, just to say hello, you

923
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 1: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your

924
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:45,400
Speaker 1: Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind's production of

925
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,080
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926
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,960
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927
00:53:50,960 --> 00:54:07,600
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