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Speaker 1: Welcome to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide?

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Speaker 1: Hosted by Tony Mentor, broadcasting from the heart of Music City, USA, Nashville, Tennessee.

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Speaker 1: Join us as our guests share their raw, powerful stories.

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Speaker 1: Some will spark laughter, others will move you to tears.

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Speaker 1: These real life journeys inspire, connect and remind you that

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Speaker 1: you're never alone. We're igniting a global movement to empower

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Speaker 1: everyone to make a lasting difference by fostering deep awareness

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Speaker 1: on wavering acceptance, and profound understanding of autism and mental health.

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Speaker 1: Tune in, be inspired, and join us in transforming the world,

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Speaker 1: one story at a time. Hi, I'm Tony Mantor. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to Why Not Me? Embracing Autism and Mental Health Worldwide.

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Speaker 1: Before we jump in, if you haven't already, I invite

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Speaker 1: you to tap polow. It only takes a couple of

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Speaker 1: seconds and it helps this show reach more families who

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Speaker 1: need to hear these conversations. Thanks for being here. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to our special event, Crafting justice empowering autism and mental

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Speaker 1: health through legislation. Joining us today is John Nutting, a

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Speaker 1: former Maine State Senator who has spent time on the

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Speaker 1: front lines of government helping craft legislation that impacts mental

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Speaker 1: health services in the system families rely on. We're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about the realities of serious mental illness, the

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Speaker 1: challenges policy makers face in addressing it, and what meaningful

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Speaker 1: change would look like if we truly prioritize mental health

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Speaker 1: in our communities. It's going to be a great conversation.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us today, that's.

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Speaker 2: All right, No no problem at all.

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Speaker 1: If you would give us a little information about yourself

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Speaker 1: in your background.

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Speaker 2: Well, I used to be a dairy farmer slash state legislator.

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Speaker 2: Looking back, I don't know how I did both, but

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Speaker 2: I was young and so was my wife. And the

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Speaker 2: Chief Justice of the Supreme Court main Supreme Court years

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Speaker 2: ago told me said, if a family tells me that

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Speaker 2: there's no brain disorders in their family, I know they're lying,

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Speaker 2: because biological it's in every family. And that's one of

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Speaker 2: the points we're trying to make here in Maine is

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Speaker 2: that if you have a disorder of any part of

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Speaker 2: your body that goes without saying that you're going to

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Speaker 2: treat that disorder, the same should be true for the brain. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: and we've got millions of families torn apart by this

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Speaker 2: subject nationwide and bull of homelessness in jails and hospitals,

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Speaker 2: or went over and over again because one particular group

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Speaker 2: has this debate raging across the country. Well, it's their

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Speaker 2: right to be psychotic, right to be bipolar, right, and

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Speaker 2: that just assures that they're not going to have any

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Speaker 2: successes and may hurt somebody else and may hurt themselves.

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Speaker 2: It's just so unnecessary that a levels of melatonin and

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Speaker 2: serotonin in their brains are not normal. Sure, especially some

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Speaker 2: of the now newer medications help to restore those without

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Speaker 2: as many side effects as previous medications. Some progress is

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Speaker 2: being made there, well, that they can go on and

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Speaker 2: start to have some successes in their lives.

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Speaker 1: Sure, I know different states have different acronyms for this.

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Speaker 1: So what is the AOT law in the state of Maine.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's called the Progressive Treatment Plan. I was a

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Speaker 2: sponsor of it as a state senator way back in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and three. We've made some progress, but I

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Speaker 2: have to admit that it's been a twenty three year

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Speaker 2: battle to try to get the original law implemented as

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Speaker 2: it was written, was still not there yet. We've made

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Speaker 2: progress Bob Staples, who you met before, and I just

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Speaker 2: finished going to Augusta. In fact, we had the final

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Speaker 2: vote today on LD nineteen eighty nine and active and

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Speaker 2: increase access to the Progressive Treatment Plan Legal Fund, because

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Speaker 2: last year the Attorney General suddenly announced they weren't going

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Speaker 2: to represent all of the PTP hearings in front of

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Speaker 2: our judges, and so it left families really in alerts

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Speaker 2: that if they couldn't afford the attorney themselves, the loved

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Speaker 2: one was not going to extend. It is for a

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Speaker 2: one year term with one year extensions at a time

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Speaker 2: if they have a district court judge agreed to it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Now, when lawmakers start crafting legislation for mental health,

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Speaker 1: what are the biggest gaps you see between the families

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Speaker 1: actual needs versus what policy is actually providing.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think there has to be more communication both ways,

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Speaker 2: and it's better than it used to be. But we've

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Speaker 2: had one group in Maine that has fought us on

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Speaker 2: the subject for twenty three actually twenty four years now,

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Speaker 2: the Disability Rights Center that don't like anything like this.

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Speaker 2: It's it's their right to be psychotic. They shouldn't have

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Speaker 2: their rights taken away by a court order, and you know,

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Speaker 2: blah blah bl like that. And of course, three quarters

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Speaker 2: of schizophrenics and maybe fifty percent of bipolar have awareness themselves.

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Speaker 2: They don't have this and a signosia lack of awareness.

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Speaker 2: And they the groups against aot and against the PTP

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Speaker 2: plan A Maine seem to have the thought that nobody

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Speaker 2: has an a signotia lack of awareness, that nobody needs

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Speaker 2: a cord order, And of course that's not the case.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was living in the state of

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Speaker 1: Maine at that time, there was a big push for

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Speaker 1: smoking bands around the state in all the areas. I

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Speaker 1: had friends that were very heavy smokers. They would argue

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Speaker 1: that they had the right to smoke. I said, I

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Speaker 1: have the right not to breathe your smoke, right. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand what part of the Disability Act that they

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Speaker 1: just don't get. Maybe they have the right to be psychotic,

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Speaker 1: but we have the right to feel safe in our

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Speaker 1: own community.

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Speaker 2: We have the right not to pay millions and millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars to keep people in jails and hospitals all

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Speaker 2: their lives after they commit a crime because we didn't

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Speaker 2: help them with their lack of awareness by keeping him

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Speaker 2: on a treatment plan. You take the young man in

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Speaker 2: Westbrook last year that killed the young parents in front

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Speaker 2: of their children in their car. He had been on

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Speaker 2: a PTP plan and was off his treatment plan. He

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Speaker 2: was working with an intensive case manager who knew full

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Speaker 2: well about MAINZ PTP statute, could have filed the court

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Speaker 2: order to keep him on as treatment plan. That none

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Speaker 2: of that. So now the state domain is going to

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Speaker 2: pay about twenty one million dollars to keep him lifetime

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Speaker 2: in jail.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was told that the biggest hospital in the

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Speaker 1: country for serious mental illness is the La County prison.

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Speaker 1: If that is true, we really need to do something

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Speaker 1: to help these people that are incarcerated. Then merely putting

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Speaker 1: them through the court system and then ultimately in jail

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Speaker 1: is not helping. What is the root cause of this issue?

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Speaker 2: Just last week in front of the main legislature, the

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Speaker 2: head of the main Sheriff's Association said, we need more

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Speaker 2: funding because we're being forced to keep hundreds of people

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Speaker 2: in our county jails that should be out in the

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Speaker 2: community with supports or in a hospital, and we're just

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Speaker 2: warehousing them in the county jails.

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Speaker 1: Now in today's world, of course, has changed some since

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Speaker 1: you were in the Senate. Well, if you was advising

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Speaker 1: a senator or a representative for legislation that's happening this year,

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Speaker 1: what is it that you would prioritize to truly help

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Speaker 1: the lives of the individuals and of course their families

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Speaker 1: that we're trying to get these bills passed for.

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Speaker 2: I would have them, as we do for any other

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Speaker 2: medical condition. I would urge them to speak to the

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Speaker 2: medical professionals in the field, The psychiatrists, psychologists, the nurse practitioners,

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Speaker 2: the main nurses association all work on a daily basis

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Speaker 2: with individuals suffering from untreated brain disorders. And they're the ones. Well,

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Speaker 2: a nurse put it to me so eloquently just a

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Speaker 2: month or so, she said, this and a signotia lack

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Speaker 2: of awareness. People with Alzheimer's in dementia have the same

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Speaker 2: and a signosia. And we put them in facilities so

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Speaker 2: that we assure that those people received even the care

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Speaker 2: they do not realize they need. And yet where the

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Speaker 2: schizophrenic or anasignotia, we build a nice mental health facility

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Speaker 2: and say if you want to come see me, oh, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: come in, we'll help you, and they're never going to

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Speaker 2: come in. I don't need to be in a treatment plan.

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Speaker 2: You need to be in a treatment plan as they're

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Speaker 2: coming from. And so it's the same and a signotia,

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Speaker 2: whether the schizophrenic or an Alzheimer's, and yet we treat

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Speaker 2: them totally different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is totally crazy in some states, and I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure where main falls on this particular issue. One

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Speaker 1: of the consistent problems I hear is there are never

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Speaker 1: enough beds in the state, and then of course they

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Speaker 1: get those beds, they need the funding to go through.

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Speaker 1: It seems like a vicious circle. My question, how do

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Speaker 1: we stop that circle so people can get the help.

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Speaker 2: The biggest single thing we could do so quickly, in

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Speaker 2: my opinion, is stop the person that's cycling over and

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Speaker 2: over over again and tying up hundreds of beds. I

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Speaker 2: heard of a young man in Maine that had forty

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Speaker 2: three hospitalizations before they finally put him on the PTP

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Speaker 2: plan six years ago. He's had none sense, and so

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Speaker 2: we're tying up an unbelievable amount of bedspace over and

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Speaker 2: over with these folks cycling over and over and over again.

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Speaker 2: Same with the jail cells.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that almost sounds like common sense. Now. I have

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Speaker 1: heard many people say that when they talk with their senators,

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Speaker 1: their legislators, lawyers, any of those people, they tend to

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Speaker 1: feel like they're invisible. They feel like they do not

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Speaker 1: understand what they are going through. How can we build

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Speaker 1: their confidence that their voices are actually getting heard and

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Speaker 1: what they say actually means something, so that we can

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Speaker 1: get them the help that they need.

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Speaker 2: In Maine. In the last eight to ten years, we've

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Speaker 2: had so many instances where we've got our growing list

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Speaker 2: of parents and family members from our family support groups

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Speaker 2: to come to Augusta to testify on public hearings, to

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Speaker 2: come to Augusta for press conferences. After the Lewiston tragedy

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Speaker 2: that was written in all the papers, a young man

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Speaker 2: that was schizophrenic. The Army had him on a treatment plan.

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Speaker 2: He was reservest so when his reserve time is done,

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Speaker 2: they released him to the state Demain. State to Main

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Speaker 2: did not keep him on his treatment plan, and so

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Speaker 2: we had three press conferences on that one subject alone.

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Speaker 2: Because you almost could have predicted that eventually something was

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Speaker 2: going to happen. The psychosis and the visions that they

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Speaker 2: get gets a frindier. Especially, it becomes reality to them

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Speaker 2: that demon is living in the light switch, or my

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Speaker 2: mother is trying to kill me and is evil, and

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Speaker 2: once they're on a treatment plan, those things change.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's a very tough situation for sure.

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Speaker 2: I know a parent that I've got to keep nameless.

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Speaker 2: But she lives in the southern part of the United States,

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Speaker 2: and because of her sons phoebeer and delusions that are

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Speaker 2: real to him, she's very evil and he has to

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Speaker 2: kill her. He's a former sharpshooter in the military, not

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Speaker 2: just an average person. The laws down there are so

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Speaker 2: terrible different county by county that they're just saying, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: oh well, you know absolutely nothing. This is just a terrible,

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Speaker 2: terrible situation.

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Speaker 1: Yes it is, and I believe that I have spoken

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Speaker 1: with that lady that you're talking about, and it's sure

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Speaker 1: is a bad situation. What we have to hope for

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Speaker 1: is some of these states are going to get together,

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Speaker 1: put their heads together, and come up with something that

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Speaker 1: are real solution.

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Speaker 2: Last year, I, like millions of other people, watched Governor

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Speaker 2: Nwsom from California come on sixty minutes talking about the

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Speaker 2: New Care Court Act, in California, extra money for judges

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Speaker 2: and housing to get the homeless off the street and

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Speaker 2: help them get a job. It all sounded wonderful and

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Speaker 2: right at the last minute, without telling the parents of

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Speaker 2: the psychiatrists or any of the medical professionals, they made

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Speaker 2: it voluntary. It gutted the whole bill. So now I've

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Speaker 2: heard with our national Shattering Silence Coalition monthly national zoom calls.

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Speaker 2: We have parents in California. They get the loved one

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Speaker 2: to court. You know, you've been homeless, in and out

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Speaker 2: of jails. This is going to be an apartment for you.

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Speaker 2: We're going to work with it on a daily basis,

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Speaker 2: get you a job. Ay you interested? And the young

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Speaker 2: person says, hell, no, I don't need to be in

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Speaker 2: a treatment plan. You need to be an a treatment plan.

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Speaker 2: They walk out of the court and nothing ever happens.

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Speaker 2: And because that was the urging of the Displayed Rights

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Speaker 2: Center that hates these type of laws nationwide, I'm hoping

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Speaker 2: Massachusetts this year is the forty ninth state that has

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Speaker 2: a statute like this. We're all kind of looking up

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Speaker 2: at Michigan. Their law is Heaven's law. What I've read

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Speaker 2: and talked to and seen there by far the finest

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Speaker 2: state in the country. They started with one area of

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Speaker 2: Michigan that has about four hundred thousand people in it,

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Speaker 2: and I retired judges running the program, and they have

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Speaker 2: over twenty seven hundred people on their Kevin's Law program.

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Speaker 2: They have room in their hospitals, they have room in

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Speaker 2: their jail. Their homeless problem is much less than it

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Speaker 2: used to be because people are on their treatment plan.

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Speaker 1: When I very first started talking about schizophrenia and serious

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Speaker 1: mental illness, I'll be honest, I really didn't know anything

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Speaker 1: about it at all. And when I would hear about

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Speaker 1: something that someone did it turned out to be psychotic.

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Speaker 1: I didn't understand that this was serious mental illness. So

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Speaker 1: my first reaction was put them in jail, throw away

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Speaker 1: the key. Right Now, since I've been talking with people

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Speaker 1: and gaining more understanding of this, my first reaction when

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Speaker 1: I hear or see of someone that did something, I

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Speaker 1: want to know, is this person just a really bad

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Speaker 1: person or is this a situation where the system completely

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Speaker 1: failed them?

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Speaker 2: Right? Right?

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Speaker 1: How do we teach and get people to understand that

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Speaker 1: just because someone does something does not mean they're bad.

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Speaker 1: It means we have to look at the system first,

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Speaker 1: more than just a person.

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Speaker 2: Yes, excellent, excellent question. It's a much needed change we

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Speaker 2: need to make. I think a lot of the elementary

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Speaker 2: and high schools are beginning to try to broach that subject.

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Speaker 2: A lot of it is still so like I don't

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Speaker 2: understand myself. I never talked to anybody that does understand.

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Speaker 2: Why the vast majority of schizophrenes I was born in January,

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Speaker 2: in the first two weeks of February. Why and so

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Speaker 2: it's just the phobias and the delusions become so real

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Speaker 2: to these individuals that they start doing things that harm others,

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Speaker 2: are to harm themselves.

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Speaker 1: Just a short time ago, I talked with a legislator

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Speaker 1: that was working on a bill for serious mental illness

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Speaker 1: in that state. They were able to work on a bill,

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Speaker 1: put it together, and get it ready to present to

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Speaker 1: the House. Then they had a vote on it and

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Speaker 1: the vote came back unanimous that they passed the bill.

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Speaker 1: Then it went to the Senate where it died a

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Speaker 1: horrible death there. How do we get these people, our representatives,

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Speaker 1: talking to each other so they understand the issue. Because

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Speaker 1: if a bill went through the House and got passed

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Speaker 1: by that many people they need to look at it

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Speaker 1: a little bit harder so they can take it into

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Speaker 1: a law that is actually going to help the people

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Speaker 1: that so desperately need it.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I mean it's like when I served. I mean

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Speaker 2: there was at least some communication between both ends of

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Speaker 2: the hallway we used to call it between the House

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Speaker 2: and the Senate. When one body did one thing, you know,

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Speaker 2: at least you were aware of it. Also going to

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Speaker 2: be improved, I think going forward, if we slowly and

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Speaker 2: I think this is happening, slowly increase the number of

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Speaker 2: parents that are unashamed and are willing to reach out

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Speaker 2: to legislators to let them know what this really is,

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Speaker 2: that it's real that when they're not on the treatment plane,

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Speaker 2: it's devastational to the not only the family, but usually

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Speaker 2: the community. And so that they raise people's awareness this

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Speaker 2: is a medical condition. This is not you know, Billy

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Speaker 2: down the street choosing to do this. This is what

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Speaker 2: he believes, you know, he should do in order to survive.

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Speaker 2: And of course it's not accurate at all.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, sometimes legislation is passed and the intentions of

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Speaker 1: it was something that was really really good, but the

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Speaker 1: end outcome for the people that it was supposed to help.

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Speaker 1: For some reason, it just doesn't work. So with your

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Speaker 1: experience of working with legislators and of course the Senate,

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Speaker 1: which separates meaningful legislation from policy that just looks good

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Speaker 1: on paper.

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Speaker 2: Well, in Maine, I first submitted this bill in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and two and had a firestorm of opposition to

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Speaker 2: it and some parents they are testifying for it, and

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Speaker 2: the Commissioner of Health and Human Services at the time

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Speaker 2: under the John Baldochi administration, talked to the administrators of

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Speaker 2: the law in New York, which is called Kendra's Law.

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Speaker 2: So she brought forth the suggestion that we table a

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Speaker 2: bill from one session to between this session, between the

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Speaker 2: first long session and the second shorter section. She put

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Speaker 2: together a very large feral work study group over eight

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Speaker 2: months involving medical professionals and parents and opponents to the

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Speaker 2: PTP law, so that you really got a chance to

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Speaker 2: thrash out what had worked in other states and what

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Speaker 2: didn't work in other states. So you try to get

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Speaker 2: grassroots help in drafting something so that it actually interviewed

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Speaker 2: as psychiatrist that had practiced in New York for years

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Speaker 2: and it was familiar with their law could tell you

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Speaker 2: what he liked and what he didn't like about the

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Speaker 2: initial draft of the main law. You know, that way

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Speaker 2: you have a better chance, I think of getting something

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Speaker 2: to be run as as it wanted. You know, at

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Speaker 2: our district court hearings, a law enforcement or a medical

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Speaker 2: professional or a guardian can file the application to have

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Speaker 2: a PTP district court hearing, and the court notifies the

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Speaker 2: parties involved, including the person. The court sets an attorney

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Speaker 2: for that person so they are represented during the hearing.

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Speaker 2: And so it's a judge. It's a decision of a

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Speaker 2: district court judge after a hearing where there's give and

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Speaker 2: take and questions and answers and challenges made to assumptions.

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Speaker 2: Some states just have a PTP type or AOT order

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Speaker 2: is just done administratively. Boom, the judge stamps it and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden you're under a PTP court order,

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Speaker 2: and that just doesn't have the effectiveness. As the judge

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Speaker 2: at the end of the hearing looking at the young

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Speaker 2: person saying, this is my decision, this is why you

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Speaker 2: may have had six hospitalizations and you've been homeless, and

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Speaker 2: goes over the history and this is what it's going

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Speaker 2: to be for you going forward, you're going to work

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Speaker 2: with an ACT team or a group home or intensive

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Speaker 2: case manager in the community. We're going to try to

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Speaker 2: get you a job and keep your out of jails

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Speaker 2: and hospitals and see if we can start having some

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Speaker 2: successes in your life. Judge also explains to the person

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Speaker 2: that if you stop your treatment plan, you're back that

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Speaker 2: evening in the hospital. They know that, and so they

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Speaker 2: for the most part, not always, but they stay on

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Speaker 2: their treatment plan and you can start to have some

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Speaker 2: successes with them. And a psychiatrist told me, he says,

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Speaker 2: somebody with an asignotia, they're all probably always going to

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Speaker 2: have anti signosis.

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Speaker 1: He says.

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Speaker 2: If somebody's been on a one year PTP and was

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Speaker 2: extended for another year, he says, I can sit down

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Speaker 2: and talk with him. You some he called something he

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Speaker 2: called backdoor insight. Mister Smith, you you probably don't feel

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Speaker 2: any differently whether or not you've been on a treatment

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Speaker 2: plan in the last two years. But let's sit down

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Speaker 2: and look at your life the last two years and

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Speaker 2: look at the two years previous to it, and they

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Speaker 2: begin to see that their life is different. It's more

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Speaker 2: positive now and because their brain chemical sure is normal again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's really good to hear. Now. When I started

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Speaker 1: my podcast, i named it why Not Me. Basically, what

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Speaker 1: it means is that there's an individual type of situation

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Speaker 1: here where one voice can matter. What would you tell

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Speaker 1: a listener that decides they want to be an advocate,

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Speaker 1: they want to believe that their single voice can make

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Speaker 1: a difference and start something very positive. Where would you

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Speaker 1: tell them to start? And then what would you tell

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Speaker 1: them to do?

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Speaker 2: We're probably the first most difficult thing would be to

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Speaker 2: not ridicule and laugh behind the person's back that's acting differently.

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Speaker 2: Try to research what your laws are groups like the

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Speaker 2: National Shadowing Silence Coalition in Maine, the Staples Foundation website.

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Speaker 2: Research what are your laws in your state, what legislators

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Speaker 2: in your state have sponsored brain disorder laws in the past,

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Speaker 2: and so you can begin to know who to reach

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Speaker 2: out to to speak about making things better. We're better

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Speaker 2: than we used to be fifteen years ago in Maine,

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Speaker 2: but we're in the process now. It's not done yet.

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Speaker 2: But this is a list of thirty five tragedies that

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Speaker 2: have happened in Maine from people off their treatment plans.

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Speaker 2: Every one of them. You can see they're unnecessary. We

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Speaker 2: had a young man in Maine last year started going

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Speaker 2: to emergency rooms begging for help, begging to be put

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Speaker 2: on a treatment plan. All they did was keep him

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Speaker 2: for two days, calming down, dump him back out on

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Speaker 2: the street. Eventually he got so bad last ball that

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Speaker 2: he attacked some people in broke a woman's job, and

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Speaker 2: so now he's in jail. Now this is somebody who

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Speaker 2: was asking for help, had been on a treatment plan

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Speaker 2: previous and had done very well, wanted that again. Things

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Speaker 2: like this just make the hair stand up still in

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Speaker 2: the back of my neck. That unnecessary. If if you

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Speaker 2: were suffering that bad with a disorder of your stomach

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Speaker 2: or your bones or your skin, bang, you know, let's

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Speaker 2: let's get that person help. And this here, somebody has

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Speaker 2: to beg for help, they still don't receive it. And

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Speaker 2: so we've made a presentation main to all the district

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Speaker 2: attorneys have made about what the law is and how

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Speaker 2: it can be used more effectively and use more than

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Speaker 2: it has been in the past, and that I believe

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Speaker 2: will bring about some positive change going forward, because it's

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Speaker 2: better for them to step in early in somebody's history,

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Speaker 2: especially if they've been in a hospital previous. Get them

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Speaker 2: to help they need or may not realize they need,

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Speaker 2: but get them help before something bad happens. That costs

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Speaker 2: society millions and millions of dollars.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's a huge amount of money. In closing,

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Speaker 1: what is one of the things that you would like

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Speaker 1: to let our listeners know that gives them an insight

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Speaker 1: of you as an advocate and of course you as

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Speaker 1: a representative on what you're trying to do to make

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Speaker 1: things better for those that need the help.

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Speaker 2: Just raising people's awareness that this is a biological disease

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Speaker 2: of the brain. It is no different than any other

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Speaker 2: disease of any other Bodybuart, your chemical levels are not normal.

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Speaker 2: More often than not, you're born in the dead of

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Speaker 2: the winter. Nobody knows why. Open discussions with family members

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Speaker 2: and school officials early on, and medical professionals, even your

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Speaker 2: primary care physicians, helping to direct them towards being on

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Speaker 2: a treatment plan. We in Maine now have over seventy

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Speaker 2: five people that are in their early teens, many of

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Speaker 2: them are not on the treatment plan. Were paying untowed

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Speaker 2: millions to keep them in facilities outside the state of

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Speaker 2: Maine because we don't have any facilities for young people

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Speaker 2: in Maine. That's money we should be keeping them in Maine,

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Speaker 2: having community supports to prevent things from happening, not just

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Speaker 2: reacting to them afterwards. The folks, the very hard working

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Speaker 2: folks that always in Maine have opposed this type of legislation.

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Speaker 2: I think by now have realized that John Nutting is

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Speaker 2: not going to back off, and we're gaining numbers of

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Speaker 2: parents and caregivers almost on a daily basis, growing our

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Speaker 2: network of parents and caregivers and law enforcement that want

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Speaker 2: to do better in this regard.

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Speaker 1: Well, this has been really good, a lot of great information,

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Speaker 1: great conversation. I really appreciate you taking the time to

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Speaker 1: join us today.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, thanks so much for having me on. Appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: It's been my pleasure. Thanks again, thanks for taking time

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Speaker 1: out of your busy schedule to listen to our show today.

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Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed it as much as we enjoyed

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Speaker 1: bringing it to you. If you know someone who has

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Speaker 1: a story to share, tell them to contact us at

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Speaker 1: WHYOMT World. One last thing, spread the word about why

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Speaker 1: not me, our conversations, our inspiring guests that show you

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Speaker 1: are not alone in this world.