1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,920 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,800 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamp and my name is Christian Sayer. Hey, Robert, 4 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,319 Speaker 1: would you read a book if you knew that it 5 00:00:22,440 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: was bound in human skin? Oh, that's a that's a 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: tough one, because it was bound in my skin. Well, 7 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 1: I feel I feel even more weird about it because 8 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 1: I'd like to be I'd like to take care of 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: my books and be respectful to my physical books as 10 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: much as possible. And uh, if it's a really nice book, 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 1: there's a lot of pressure, right. You don't want to 12 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: bend that fancy cover. You don't want to just leave 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: it sitting around. And if it's bound in human flesh, 14 00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: I feel like I've got to go above and beyond. 15 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 1: I've got a lot of special Yeah, I've got to 16 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: get a special jacket for it. I've got to perhaps 17 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: put moisturizer on it. I don't know all the rules 18 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: because I don't have any books bound in human flesh. 19 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: One of the things things that I heard and read 20 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 1: during our research for the episode that we were about 21 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 1: to conduct was that apparently human skin is like any 22 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 1: other leather bound book, as long as you just keep 23 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 1: it at like a moderate temperature should be okay. And 24 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: for the most part, the libraries and archives that have them, 25 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:21,759 Speaker 1: you know, they have them. Obviously, they're in special collections. 26 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: They're kept away there behind glass, or they're you know, 27 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,880 Speaker 1: in boxes somewhere, but there they don't need like any 28 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: special I don't know. It's not like like you need 29 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: human skin spray to wipe down your book with, right, Yeah, 30 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,680 Speaker 1: Because it basically comes down to the reality that that 31 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: human hide is just another hide. Granted it's one that 32 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: has a lot of a lot of personal um value 33 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: attached to it and a lot of a lot of 34 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: taboo energy associated with with its use, but it's ultimately 35 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 1: not that different from any other animal skin. Yeah, really, 36 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 1: it isn't um And so we're gonna talk about this 37 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: today because there's a weird history behind it. But also 38 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: there's a new science that's popped up in the last 39 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: two years to confirm whether or not a book is 40 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: actually bound in human skin. And you may be sitting 41 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: out there listening to this and saying, surely that's not 42 00:02:12,120 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: really a thing. Uh, And you know, we've all heard 43 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:19,600 Speaker 1: of these kinds of books and horror movies or something, right, like, 44 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: the one that I immediately think of is the Necronomicon 45 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 1: Ex mort Us from Evil Dead, uh, infamously bound in 46 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 1: human skin. But what others, Well, well, this one's interesting 47 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 1: because of course you know it's very much bound in 48 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 1: human skin in the Evil Dead movies. Yeah, but the 49 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: neverrica necronomicon is that originally appears in HP Lovecraft's writings. 50 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: I don't believe was ever mentioned as being bound in 51 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: human flesh. Oh okay, yeah, yeah. In fact, there's only 52 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: one reference I could find. Maybe some some other Lovecraft 53 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: readers out there can can correct us, But the only 54 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 1: story I found where he makes a reference to a 55 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: bound in human skin is his story The Hound that includes, uh, 56 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: this description of kind of an occult stash statues and paintings. 57 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,360 Speaker 1: There were all the fiendish subjects, and some executed by St. 58 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: John and myself. A locked portfolio, bound and tanned human 59 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 1: skin held certain unknown and unnamable drawings, which was rumored 60 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:28,359 Speaker 1: Goya had perpetrated but dared not at knowledge. So there's 61 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 1: one reference to a book bound in human skin. But 62 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: for the most part, like it's something that turns up 63 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: in a horror fiction. Sometimes in Stephen King's Eyes that 64 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: the Eyes of the Dragon, the flag character reads from 65 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,400 Speaker 1: a book of this's bound in human skin. It's implied 66 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: that this might be the Necronomicon. But for the most part, 67 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 1: I couldn't run across any specific examples of like old 68 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: school horror fiction and weird fiction that had much in 69 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: the way of of human flesh bound books. I couldn't either. 70 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: The only one that popped into my head, and I 71 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: could confirm it by quickly looking up this movie was 72 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: The Ninth Gate. Do you remember that Roman Polanski movie 73 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: with Johnny Depp and he had he was like traveling 74 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: around the world to get I think there were three 75 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: copies that he had to confirm if they were real 76 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: or not. That were these books that you basically used 77 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: to summon a portal to Hell. Yes, you're speaking of 78 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: the Book of the Nine Gates to the Kingdom of Shadows. 79 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: The book that this was based on was The Club 80 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,359 Speaker 1: Duma by AUTHORO Perez ROBERTA. Yeah, yeah, I read this 81 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: many years ago, so I've forgotten most of it, but 82 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: I remember it being pretty fun. I looked back in 83 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: it a little bit for this episode, and I it 84 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: appears that in the book at least it was bound 85 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:44,360 Speaker 1: in um seventeen century Venetian binding, and there were three 86 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: copies of this sixteen sixty six demonology text sixteen sixty six. 87 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: It was a good year for the hmonomy, but three 88 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 1: copies survived the Inquisition, and in the story um two 89 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: of those copies contain elaborate forgeries. So you only have 90 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: one volume that will actually work the others. If you 91 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: try and follow the various demonic summoning consulting spells, you're 92 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 1: gonna do it wrong and you might die. Yeah. That's 93 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: an interesting little movie. I've heard the books are much 94 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: better too. But the movie it's not a great movie, 95 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 1: but I weirdly come back to it every couple of years. No, 96 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,840 Speaker 1: it's it's uh. I have to say that the book 97 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: might be bound in human flesh in the movie, because 98 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: I know that the movie kind of played up some 99 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 1: more of the demonic and horror themes. Yeah, whereas the 100 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,239 Speaker 1: book kind of kept a distance from some of that stuff. 101 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: But it's a lot of fun. Yeah. Yeah, it's got 102 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: that scene with the woman in the wheelchair. That's what 103 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: I always think of when I think of that. I 104 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 1: don't remember that at all. She's she's dying and she's 105 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 1: just kind of like flailing around in like one of 106 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:54,600 Speaker 1: those powered wheelchairs. It's it's pretty brutal. Yeah. Anyways, So 107 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: speaking of brutal, how about some books bound in human 108 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 1: skin or just skinning humans? Yeah, because that's really where 109 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 1: we have to to come back to. But before we 110 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,479 Speaker 1: get into the utilization of human flesh, uh, in book binding, 111 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: we have to go back even further. I have to 112 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: go back far before we were binding books at all 113 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: and just talk about, well, what's the history of just 114 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 1: pulling flesh off of people? Do you want to share 115 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: a fun fact with our audience that we learn when 116 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: we're putting the notes together for this. Yeah, So if 117 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: if you if you see this phase of stuff to 118 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 1: blow your mind as as phase three, which I guess 119 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: I'm I'm now thinking of it as uh, phase four 120 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: is when we're all robots. But this is the This 121 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,360 Speaker 1: is technically the fifth episode of the podcast to discuss 122 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: Human Flame, Jeff, the Killer Episode, the Incomplete Unfinished episode, 123 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: the mind Let episode, the Human Remains episode, and Cobra 124 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: Effect and the Horrors of scalp hunting and don't forget 125 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: mind flares, they don't flay skin, but that there is 126 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,240 Speaker 1: a at least the word flame. Yeah, so it's it's 127 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:05,679 Speaker 1: a five point five. Yeah. So the just the flaying 128 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,799 Speaker 1: of humans as barbaric as it is has been around 129 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: for quite some time. UM. I was looking at one 130 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: particular text, uh, when we're when we're researching this, and 131 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: this is an older publication, but it was from Lawrence S. 132 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: Thompson writing for the U. S. Department of Agriculture in 133 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: he has this whole uh paper, this whole chapter tanned 134 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 1: human skin, and he says that the mere tanning of 135 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: human hides obviously goes back much further than book binding. 136 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: For instance, Herodotus wrote about the Scythians and their cultivation 137 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: of this art. If you will. In Saxon, Britain, certain 138 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: offenders could pay hide geld for their crimes. So I 139 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: guess that would be essentially paying so you would still 140 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 1: be alive, but you would give parts of your skin, 141 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: or it would be like a I'm going to be executed, 142 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: but in payment you will be able to take miss skin. 143 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not certain on this because on one hand, 144 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: I'm I'm wondering if it's if it means that you 145 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: would pay a little actual guild so your hide would 146 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: not be taken, or if it's kind of um, you know, 147 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 1: you're basically paying for your your crimes with a piece 148 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 1: of your skin. Um. Also, he also mentions that Danes 149 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 1: who committed sacrilege in churches could be flayed and their 150 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:26,239 Speaker 1: skins nailed the church doors, which seems seems a little 151 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: sacrilegious to put a human skin on a church door. 152 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: It seems like you're you're punishing the crime with another crime. 153 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: But that's just my modern sensibilities, I guess. Well, and 154 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: that's what we're gonna learn in this episode two is 155 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: that a lot of this comes down to what is 156 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,360 Speaker 1: taboo nowadays versus what was two hundred years ago, three 157 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: hundred years ago, and further back. Really we're talking about 158 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: the medieval and Renaissance period when this was at its height, 159 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,959 Speaker 1: but the last I think the last recorded one was 160 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: in the late nineteenth century. Yeah. And then one of 161 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: the things too about human flaying in general is that, yes, 162 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: it undoubtedly has happened, and it has been the practice 163 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: of different cultures at different times. But on the other hand, 164 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 1: it is hard work it's it's grizzly work, and sometimes 165 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 1: just the idea of it taking place picks up steam 166 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: and becomes part of the myth, whereas it might not 167 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: and it might not have actually happened. Like, for instance, 168 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 1: there's a legend of jan Zika, the Hussite military commander, 169 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: and apparently the legend is that his dying wish was 170 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,679 Speaker 1: that drums may be made from his his skin so 171 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: that he could continue to lead his troops in battle 172 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: in some fashion. And you know who, who knows if 173 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: there's any truth to that at all, but the story, uh, 174 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 1: certainly resonated with everyone. And that's kind of part of 175 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: what this this new scientific practice is all about, because 176 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 1: there's so many stories and legends about, oh, this book 177 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: is bound in human skin, and you know, you can't 178 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: really tell it first glance, and we're gonna talk about why. 179 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 1: But turns out, like a lot of these old archives, 180 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,079 Speaker 1: when you actually test their books, they don't always turn 181 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: up as actually being made of human skin. Sometimes they're 182 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: just sheep skin or lamb skin or cow or deer 183 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:10,440 Speaker 1: or something. Right. I mean, in some of these accounts, 184 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: even books that that definitely are made of human skin, Uh, 185 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,400 Speaker 1: they have been described as looking like they're made from 186 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 1: pig skins. Yeah, yeah, So much of it is just 187 00:10:19,840 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: your expectation of and you're you're what you're you're thinking about? 188 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: Is the story regarding this think it definitely has to 189 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:27,719 Speaker 1: do with the tanning process too. As we go through 190 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:30,400 Speaker 1: some of the examples throughout this episode too, Like some 191 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: of them you look at them and you go, oh, 192 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: that's a part of a human being, and others you 193 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 1: have no idea. So then you know, I'm assuming, like myself, 194 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: many of you out there might not actually be familiar 195 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,200 Speaker 1: with the process of tanning, and tanning human hides is 196 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: essentially similar to how you would tan other hides. But 197 00:10:47,760 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: let's go through it real quick. So there's many that 198 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:53,560 Speaker 1: are bound. Many types of books in particular that are 199 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: bound in human skin can include prayer books, astronomy treatises, 200 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 1: and court cases, and then deaffinitely anatomy text, which stricts 201 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: me as being very meta, very wink wink, nudge nudge. 202 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: But the official name for this type of book binding 203 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: is called anthropodermic biblio peggy or page. It was mostly 204 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:17,959 Speaker 1: done in the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries, and it was 205 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 1: primarily by physicians to bind their anatomy texts. Uh. And 206 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: in these cases it was usually human skin that was 207 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,280 Speaker 1: claimed from medical cadavers or criminals that were sentenced to death, 208 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: but sometimes their skin was also used to bind the 209 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 1: record of their trials as a form of punishment after death. 210 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: And we'll explain why and some of the examples. Uh. 211 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: It was supposedly this is a rumor I think popular 212 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: during the French Revolution, uh, where there was quote unquote 213 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: a fresh supply of bodies available. Yeah. I was actually 214 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 1: reading about the French Revolution tie in and apparently royalist 215 00:11:53,679 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: propaganda from the time claimed that the revolutionary leather goods 216 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: were generated by a human leather tannery. There's one place 217 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: in particular, I think in uh mutant any U d 218 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: o n. And I'm not that great the fringe either, 219 00:12:08,360 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: but but yeah, that was the propaganda going around all 220 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: these revolutionaries, all of their leather comes from human flesh. Okay, well, 221 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: you know we're gonna have an example coming up that 222 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 1: is of a market asad book. So maybe and that 223 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 1: was right around that time ish, so maybe that's possible. Um, 224 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: it turns out to that sometimes these books were bound 225 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: in human skin. Out of affection for the author. Now 226 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 1: there's at least one interesting account. Yeah, this is not 227 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 1: necessarily that they've taken the author's skin and bound his 228 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: book in it, although I think that might have happened too. 229 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: But but more often that you send your skin to 230 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: your favorite author after you die, you have you've paid 231 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: ahead of time for the shipping. Uh, maybe you stamps 232 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 1: dot com to send your human skin, you know, I 233 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 1: could understand that. I mean we I feel like a 234 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: lot of us are reading ongoing series and the idea 235 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 1: of dying before the author finishes that series can be 236 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: a little troubling, right, So I could see like sending 237 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,480 Speaker 1: a piece of your your skin to say, George R. 238 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 1: Martin exactly, Scott Baker or somebody and saying, look, I'm 239 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:19,559 Speaker 1: not going to survive to read your book, but if 240 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:23,320 Speaker 1: you could, maybe if I could be there in some fashion, Yeah, exactly, 241 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: And that is that's how it went down. But yeah, 242 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: I mean, essentially, what you do is you cure an 243 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:31,319 Speaker 1: animal skin when you're tanning. You do it by soaking 244 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 1: it in salt and then in water, and then you 245 00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 1: treat it with various chemicals that soften it up and 246 00:13:36,559 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: keep it from decomposing in some cases and in some 247 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: of the human cases we're gonna talk about urine is used. Okay, Yeah, because, 248 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,559 Speaker 1: like we said, the human skin is just another animal hide. 249 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: And you know, there are accounts of tanners using human 250 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: skin and book bindings, and in these cases you can 251 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: compare many of the cuts of human hide to pig hide. 252 00:13:56,080 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 1: The pores, hair, and in some cases the nipples can 253 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 1: be telling, but can also just be easy to look 254 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,720 Speaker 1: at it and think it's just any other type of leather. 255 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: Not something I ever really thought about before with just 256 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: you know, leather working in general, is like what what 257 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: do they do about the animal nipples? You know, like 258 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:16,960 Speaker 1: if I have a belt or I have shoes or whatever, 259 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:20,640 Speaker 1: like do they just cut around the nipples? Well, what 260 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: do they do with the nipple part? It's interesting that 261 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 1: this les Yeah, they do. They have, They have quite 262 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: a number of them. It seems like with with actual 263 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: leather work, there's gonna be a tendency to remove all 264 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: aspects of the creature. You don't want to be reminded 265 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: that this came from an animal. But in many of 266 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: these cases of human hide use, there is a deliberate 267 00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: effort to make it resemble a person in some way, 268 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 1: shape or form. There's even one where there's an impression 269 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: of the person's face. Yeah. Really, but that's like so Necronomicon. Yeah, 270 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:59,640 Speaker 1: that's a new show on the ABC Family. So Necronomicon. 271 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: Now Laurence Lawrence S. Thompson and that that the writing 272 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: that I mentioned. He writes about several non book binding 273 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 1: uses of human skin from some of the from this 274 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: time period, ranging from slippers to an alleged coin purse 275 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: made from a human scrotum. It was employed by a 276 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: burlesque dancer. Honestly, I'm not sure how much I'd buy 277 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: that because symbolism aside, who really wants to lug around 278 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: a scrotum? You know? Yeah, it seems like a lot 279 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: of work, But it also seems like maybe it's like 280 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: some kind of symbolic victory over like if she's a 281 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,400 Speaker 1: burlesque dancer, maybe it was like it belonged to somebody 282 00:15:37,400 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: who had wronged her. Yeah, I mean, the story of 283 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: it makes sense, but at the end of the day, 284 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: you're left with what sounds like a pretty ugly coin purse. 285 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 1: I guess with any of these things, if it's if 286 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: it's made in a way to look like it was 287 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: it was manufactured from a human body. The appeal is 288 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: going to wear off with most collectors pretty fast. That's 289 00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: the kind of that's my two cents on it. Yeah, yeah, 290 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: you're not that wrong. So why don't we take a 291 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: quick break and when we come back, we're gonna give 292 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 1: you just a just a pile of examples to show 293 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:16,800 Speaker 1: you how real this is. Okay, we're back. So let's 294 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: talk about some notable books that were bound in human 295 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:24,560 Speaker 1: flesh and why were they all? Right, uh, yeah, before 296 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 1: we get into and I just want to drive home 297 00:16:26,120 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: again the time frame we're looking at. So, according to 298 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: the late Age of print, everyday book culture from consumerism 299 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: to control by Ted Streyfus, the binding of books and 300 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: human flesh persisted as a practice from basically the late 301 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: eighteenth century to and he argues the conclusion of the 302 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: Second World War. Now he's like, he's largely alluding to 303 00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: the allegations that the Nazi doctors used flesh in in 304 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: the construction of lamp shades. Oh right, Yeah, this came 305 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: up a lot in the literature and was kind of 306 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: most of the writers who were focusing on the book 307 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 1: binding where like the lamp shade thing is is unconfirmed. Yeah, 308 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,399 Speaker 1: and it's been more importantly, it's it's not a book like, 309 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: just to be very uh specific, they're referring to a 310 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: lampshade is not a book binding. So um So I 311 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: don't know if that timeline exact timeline can can really 312 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:21,879 Speaker 1: be trusted, but you could basically say that that that 313 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: was probably the last time someone could have really gotten 314 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: away with it in the in the the the sort 315 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 1: of learned academic sense of it. A buffalo bill too. Yeah. Yeah. 316 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: And and also, as we'll discuss at the very end, 317 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:40,440 Speaker 1: there are examples of modern uh flesh usage and various 318 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: art projects, the construction of of tennis shoes made from 319 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 1: human flesh, that sort of thing. If you follow the 320 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: kind of social media feeds we do, if you probably 321 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:51,679 Speaker 1: have seen examples. I feel like I shared this on 322 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: stuff to blow your mind at one point. But there 323 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,680 Speaker 1: was this artist who made these shoes with human teeth. Yeah, 324 00:17:56,760 --> 00:17:59,480 Speaker 1: that's the one I'm thinking. Yeah, yeah, those were really bizarre. 325 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: But also, you know, for us and for most of 326 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,959 Speaker 1: our listeners, kind of cool to look at. Yeah, there 327 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 1: was a there was a recent art project where someone 328 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: who's was planning to take the skin samples from the 329 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: late fashion designer Alexander McQueen talked about into a jacket. 330 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: Yeah so, but but even that, that's you're talking about cloning, 331 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,719 Speaker 1: you take it's a modern spin on on on this, uh, 332 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 1: this older method of book binding, of utilizing human flesh 333 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: and some sort of uh, you know, quote unquote practical sense. 334 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,520 Speaker 1: So before I get into this, I want to note 335 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: that one of my sources was from a blog by 336 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: a woman named Dr Lindsay fitz Harris, and she's a 337 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 1: medical historian who specializes in the history of early surgery. Uh. 338 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: And it's a fascinating blog. So if you like this 339 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:50,240 Speaker 1: is the kind of thing you're interested in, and you 340 00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:51,679 Speaker 1: like what you're hearing, and you might want to go 341 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: check it out because she's got just lots of entries 342 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: on things like this. But let's start with father Henry Garnett. 343 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 1: Apparently he was a conspirator as part of the sixteen 344 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: oh five gunpowder plot. Many of you will know this 345 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,760 Speaker 1: as now being memorialized as Guy Fox Day. He conspired 346 00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 1: to blow up the houses of Parliament in England, and 347 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 1: his uh sixteen oh six record of his offenses is 348 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: bound in his skin. And this is the title of 349 00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: the book, A true and perfect relation of the whole 350 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: proceedings against the late most barbarous traders Garnet, a Jesuit 351 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: and his confederates. Now this is you know, if you're 352 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: one of our British listeners, you're probably well familiar with us. 353 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,960 Speaker 1: But for our other listeners, this is why Great Britain 354 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: celebrates the fifth of November as Guy Fox Day. It's 355 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: mostly popularized over here from Alan Moore and David Lloyd's 356 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,200 Speaker 1: v for Vendetta, which was made into a movie a 357 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: couple of years ago. So you occasionally see folks wearing 358 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 1: Guy Fox masks here, but it's really like the for 359 00:19:55,960 --> 00:20:01,040 Speaker 1: Vendetta masks for them. H Garnet himself actually wasn't active 360 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,480 Speaker 1: in the plot to do this, but he knew of it, 361 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: and so he was hung, and then he was drawn 362 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: and quartered before his skin was removed. Now, one copy 363 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: of this book, this is the one I was talking about, 364 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: has been found with an impression of his face on 365 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,400 Speaker 1: the front cover, and it went for eleven thousand dollars 366 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: at an auction in two thousand and seven. That doesn't 367 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: seem like that much to me. I don't know. I 368 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: guess I'm not really in on the pricings of rare books, 369 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: especially like human skin books, but eleven thousands seems kind 370 00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: of low, like it's less than a car. Yeah, I 371 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,120 Speaker 1: don't know. I guess you it's going to be awkward 372 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,200 Speaker 1: to read that book because if you're on the train 373 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: with it, people are going to be staring at the face. 374 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:45,040 Speaker 1: You're like, do you hold the nose when you've got 375 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: the front cover opening your lap? If it's a big book, Yeah, 376 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: do I want to even put it in my lap 377 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 1: if it's got somebody's face on it? I don't know. 378 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:56,600 Speaker 1: And you're really you're just reading like sixteen hundreds legal records. 379 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:02,399 Speaker 1: That's ultimately a boring book. But the next one that 380 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,520 Speaker 1: we should talk about, and this is the fan one 381 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: is I like to call it the French Countess. Uh, 382 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:11,040 Speaker 1: this is the fan. So she was a big fan 383 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: of occultist astronomer Camille Flammarion, and she sent a strip 384 00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: of skin from her shoulders to him after she died 385 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: from tuberculosis, and then he used it to bind a 386 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: copy of a book on the description of the planets 387 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 1: in our solar system. Yeah, it was. This was this 388 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: was fascinating. Again. This comes back to this idea that hey, 389 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be around for your next book. I 390 00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: love your work, and he bind your next book in 391 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: my skin. Uh, And he did that, and it was 392 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 1: it apparently was even this is the kind of thing 393 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: that happened today. It would be in all the headlines, 394 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: right and even at the time people were asking questions. 395 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 1: You're like, WHOA, tell me more about this? And so 396 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: Flammarion ended up responding to one of these questions. And 397 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: I have the letter that he wrote in response. He 398 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 1: he says, my dear doctor, the story has been somewhat 399 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: expanded it. I don't know the name of the person 400 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: whose dorsal skin was delivered to me by a physician 401 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,719 Speaker 1: to use for binding. It was a matter of carrying 402 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:12,160 Speaker 1: out a pious vow. Some newspapers, especially in America, published 403 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: the portrait, the name, and even the photograph of the 404 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:19,000 Speaker 1: chateau where the quote unquote countess lived. All of that 405 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: is pure invention. The binding was successfully executed by Ingle, 406 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: and from then on the skin was inalterable. I remember 407 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 1: I had to carry this relic to a tanner in 408 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,640 Speaker 1: the rue de la rene Blanche, and three months were 409 00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: necessary for the job. Such an idea is assuredly bizarre. However, 410 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: in point of fact, the fragment of a beautiful body 411 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,440 Speaker 1: is all that survives of it today, and it can 412 00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: endure for centuries in a perfect state of respectful preservation. 413 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: The desire of the unknown woman was to have my 414 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: last book published at the time of her death, bound 415 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: in this skin, the Octavo edition of The Terrorist Doucier 416 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,720 Speaker 1: published by did he enjoys this, honor your reader and 417 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:05,919 Speaker 1: admire Flammarion. So I didn't do a deep dive into Flammirion. 418 00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: He might be somebody who want to come back to 419 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: it a later day, because he reminds me of John 420 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: d um But apparently, like when he was around, he 421 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: was known as sort of I don't crank isn't really 422 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 1: the right term, but he like he had like a 423 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,959 Speaker 1: lot of predictions based on like his his observations of astronomy, 424 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: and I think one of them was something like Hayley's 425 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: comment was gonna crash into earth and kill everybody or 426 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:30,239 Speaker 1: something like that. Like he had like a lot of 427 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 1: like kind of apocalyptic you know, scare tactics. Yeah. I 428 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: don't know a lot about him either, but I do 429 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,240 Speaker 1: know this, Um, he believed that it was perfectly reasonable 430 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: to use a woman's skin to bind a book. I'm 431 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: a woman whose name he didn't know. Yeah, I mean, 432 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: he makes kind of an interesting argument. He's saying, look, 433 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: beautiful woman, she's dead, she would just be forgotten. Now 434 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: she gets to live on as part of this forever, 435 00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: as long as the planets. So I don't know, all right, 436 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,400 Speaker 1: but it is interesting to hear the the the author's 437 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:07,360 Speaker 1: take on this a little bit. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Um, 438 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,160 Speaker 1: I can't believe you're able to dig that up. That's 439 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: pretty cool. Um. So here's the Marquis assad book that 440 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: I was mentioning earlier. If you're familiar with his work, 441 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: it's copies of his work Justine. Uh So. Medical interns 442 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 1: apparently supplied the breasts of deceased female patients to an 443 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: English binder of erotica in the nineteenth century to bind 444 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: copies of Justine. Uh And this is so obviously more 445 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: than one copy of Justine. And in one example, there 446 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: is an intact nipple on the cover. And the research 447 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: article that I read about this had a picture of it. Um, 448 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,880 Speaker 1: but that seems weirdly fitting for the Marquis Assad. Yeah. 449 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 1: I was reading about this as well, apparently, um, and 450 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,399 Speaker 1: you you were able to uncover actual photographs of this. Yeah, 451 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: because the way I saw it described was that the 452 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,679 Speaker 1: Goncour brothers, who were French writers at the time, that 453 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: they kind of gossiped that interns in the this place 454 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: the Calmer where we're dismissed because of the delivered skin 455 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: from breasts the female patients to the binder of obscene 456 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: books in uh Faull book. Saint Germain uh and then 457 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 1: publisher Isidore or Lazoo claimed to have seen the volume 458 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,360 Speaker 1: that you've described here. Well, you know, this could be 459 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,320 Speaker 1: one of those examples where this is legend. I mean, 460 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: of course, like so market Assad is infamous, of course, 461 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,239 Speaker 1: Like if you really want to like like mark up 462 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: the value on your Marquis Assad book, you say, oh, yeah, 463 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,639 Speaker 1: this just happens to be made from the skin of 464 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: of a mental patients breasts. Oh no, they weren't mental patients. 465 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 1: They were just deceased patients. The mental patients come later. Um, 466 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying, like that this would 467 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:50,840 Speaker 1: be one that would be great to test if they 468 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,879 Speaker 1: could ever, uh, you know, get it over to this 469 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: team of scientists that we'll talk about later. Indeed, now 470 00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: at this point, a number of our American listeners are 471 00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,119 Speaker 1: probably thinking, Man, Europeans of this time period, we're just 472 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:06,919 Speaker 1: we're just kind of awful. Americans would never engage in 473 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: this sort of bizarre a book collecting grotesque ery. Not true. 474 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: We've got James Allen, who went by the alias George Walton, 475 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: and he was from my home state, Massachusetts, or at 476 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 1: least that's where he died. Uh. He was a nineteenth 477 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: century criminal who willingly donated his skin after he tried 478 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,199 Speaker 1: to rob a man on the mass Turnpike. His victim 479 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 1: fended him off, so Alan, when he was captured, requested 480 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,800 Speaker 1: that his skin be used to bind a book of 481 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:41,919 Speaker 1: his crimes that was given to his victim as a 482 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: quote token of his esteem. Huh. And this is on 483 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: display at the Boston Athenaeum Library. Another book from his 484 00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: skin went to his doctor apparently so he had he 485 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: had enough left over, He just said, gives him here 486 00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,439 Speaker 1: a little bit here. I hope everyone is really like, 487 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: the big message that I got from the research was 488 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:05,200 Speaker 1: just how normalized. Yeah, this was granted not among everybody, 489 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 1: but in certain circles. It was the kind of thing 490 00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 1: where you could arrest and be like, oh, yeah, I'll 491 00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: want my skin to bind this book in that book. 492 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: Like today, no one would be you would just you 493 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:17,920 Speaker 1: would just be considered a complete wacko. Uh. But I 494 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: mean maybe you were considered a whack o at the time. 495 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: We were considered a you know, unacceptable kind of whack 496 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: in eccentric Uh. You know, I don't know. I kind 497 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: of wonder like if any of our pathologist friends are 498 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: out there listening it, if you are used to dealing 499 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: with the dead and you're handling them and you're opening 500 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: them up and you're doing autopsies, you know, I wonder 501 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: how much further down the road it really is to 502 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,080 Speaker 1: take the skin off. I mean, the tanning process seems 503 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:51,199 Speaker 1: to be the hardest part about that. Although I'm you know, 504 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 1: I've never actually removed somebody's skin, but you know what 505 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, like I think like once you've already 506 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: gone down the path of being, uh, someone who conducts 507 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 1: autopsies on a regular basis, and you're just sort of 508 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: used to the dead human body being an object and 509 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,159 Speaker 1: not a person. Maybe it's not that far removed to 510 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: say like, well, we might as well get some use 511 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:16,600 Speaker 1: out of this. Yeah, I mean yeah, I think that's 512 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:20,040 Speaker 1: a perfectly valid point here, because you know, you're either 513 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: going to be a tanner who is who is who's 514 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: engaging with the hides all the time, or you were 515 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:30,240 Speaker 1: a doctor who is dissecting criminals and and uh and 516 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: you know deceased patients. Yeah, that's what it seems like. 517 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,680 Speaker 1: Another and so this is a famous example but also 518 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: a good example to give us an idea of why 519 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: these were conducted the way they were. And it is 520 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: Burke's skin pocketbook. Uh. This is the notorious Scottish murderer 521 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,240 Speaker 1: who committed his crimes between eighteen seven and eighteen eight 522 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: with his associate Hair, So Burke and Hair. I think 523 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 1: that's a movie, right, Yeah, there was a sign Simon 524 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 1: Peg and yeah, Simon Peg and Gollum. I haven't seen it. 525 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: That's Gollum's real name. I feel bad, Candy Circundy Circus. Yeah. Uh, 526 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 1: those guys played these characters. I wonder if in that 527 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 1: movie version they show the book at the end. But uh, 528 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:18,600 Speaker 1: so these two killed sixteen people and the reason why 529 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 1: I was to sell their bodies to an anatomist. Uh. 530 00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:26,560 Speaker 1: Burke was hung and then dissected, and his skin now 531 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: binds a book at the Surgeon's Hall Museum in Edinburgh. Uh. 532 00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,719 Speaker 1: This book is described as being dark brown, almost black, 533 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: and honestly it's not really a book. It's really kind 534 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: of a wallet for personal notes and money. There's no 535 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 1: paper between it. Uh. And why why was this done? 536 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,120 Speaker 1: We're starting to see a pattern here right, Well, apparently 537 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: there was a law called England's Murder Act of seventeen 538 00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: fifty one, and this stipulated that not only would a 539 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: murderer be executed, but they couldn't be buried. So they 540 00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:58,800 Speaker 1: were like, what are we gonna do with all these bodies? 541 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: So they what they would do is they would usually 542 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: dissect them, sometimes in public, you know, as kind of 543 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: a lecture hall series or something like that. Sometimes they 544 00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: hung the bodies and chains, but some like Burke, were 545 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:17,200 Speaker 1: made into book covers. Uh. So there you go. Another 546 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 1: one of these, it's kind of similar, is at the 547 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 1: Bristol Record Office. It's a there's a book there that 548 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 1: accounts the first man to be hung at Bristol gaul 549 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: I think that's how you pronounce it. I guess over 550 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: here we'd call it gallows. Uh. It's a guy named 551 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: John Horwood. Now, the story goes Horwood was eighteen years 552 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,320 Speaker 1: old and he was infatuated with a woman named Eliza Balsam, 553 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: and he threw a stone at her while she was 554 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: fetching water, and then he quote beat her skull to pieces. 555 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,960 Speaker 1: Uh ditto, same as Burke. He was dissected during a 556 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,360 Speaker 1: public lecture, and then his skin bound the papers about 557 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,280 Speaker 1: the case. So that's another place where apparently you can 558 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: you can see some of these now here. This next 559 00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: example is one of the most disturbing from and it's 560 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,080 Speaker 1: right here in the US of A. And you can, 561 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:07,800 Speaker 1: in fact, uh see these books at the Mutter Museum. Uh, 562 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:11,200 Speaker 1: the Mary Lynch books, as they're called. So Mary Lynch 563 00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: was a twenty eight year old woman who died from 564 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: tuberculosis and parasitic infection tricken gnosis in eight she'd been 565 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: in this hospital care facility for six months, and the 566 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 1: physician who did her autopsy needed to remind his trio 567 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: of anatomical texts on human reproduction. That's how the story 568 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,280 Speaker 1: is first portrayed. But then I read multiple articles about 569 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: this and got the full story. So basically what he 570 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: did was he's conducting her autopsy. He takes a section 571 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: of skin from her thigh, then he hands it in 572 00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: the hospital basement. But he didn't at first repurpose it 573 00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: for these book covers. Mary apparently only weighed sixty pounds 574 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: at the time of her death. It was apparently a 575 00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,760 Speaker 1: gruesome affair. He tanned her skin using a bed pan, 576 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: and they think it might have been filled with human 577 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: urine instead of the usual uh, you know, salt and 578 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: chemicals that were used. Uh. And they say this would 579 00:32:10,960 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 1: have taken two weeks to a month. This guy, who 580 00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:17,480 Speaker 1: was only twenty three years old at the time. But wait, 581 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: he holds onto her skin until eighteen eighty seven, So 582 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: nineteen years later, Uh, he decides, I'm gonna buy in 583 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: these anatomy books up uh and the three volumes are 584 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:34,120 Speaker 1: now in the Mudern Museum. Some speculate that the treatment 585 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,840 Speaker 1: like this shows an example of how doctors at the 586 00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: time saw themselves as being social superiors to their poorer patients. Uh. 587 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: And he also published her autopsy in the eighteen sixty 588 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 1: nine issue of the American Journal of Medical sciences, and 589 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: apparently it included this very gruesome graphic that depicted the 590 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: number of parasites that were in her body during the autopsy. 591 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: So this just sounds this sounds very morbid. Yeah, there 592 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: is this sense. You do get a strong sense of 593 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: physicians here who have a godlike complex about their their 594 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: powers over the human body and and certainly to your 595 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:22,080 Speaker 1: point there their social superiority to the poorer patients. Yeah. Yeah, 596 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: this is the kind of thing. It's funny because like 597 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 1: that's a stereotype I think of when I think of 598 00:33:27,160 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: like the nineteenth century medical man, you know. Um, but 599 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,440 Speaker 1: that's mainly from entertainment, you know, I'm thinking of like, 600 00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, Penny Dreadful, right, like Dr Frankenstein, I'm 601 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: Penny Dreadful, or characters and stuff like Deadwood or something 602 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:44,720 Speaker 1: like that. Right, Like, like doctors just were a little 603 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 1: quirky back then, at least that's what our fiction tells us. 604 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: But then we like this, Yeah, well one of the 605 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: things is you are entertainment. Of course we want our 606 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 1: doctors quirky. I'm gonna watch, you know, sixteen hours about 607 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:00,000 Speaker 1: this doctor. He'd bet he or he'd better be quirky. 608 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 1: You know that. It's one of the reasons I love shows, 609 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: like like the nick that was going to mention after 610 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 1: factory and that very quirky doctor. I wouldn't want it 611 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 1: any other way. But then you look in the in 612 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: the histories and you do find these real eccentric spirits 613 00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,399 Speaker 1: in the medical profession. And I mean that goes back. 614 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 1: I mean, and that goes all the way back through 615 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,640 Speaker 1: ancient times and to the age of vivisection, etcetera well, 616 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: and leads to us having characters nowadays like Hannibal Lecter. 617 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 1: You know, like that, it all kind of makes sense 618 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:31,600 Speaker 1: when when you trace the history of it. Another example 619 00:34:31,640 --> 00:34:33,480 Speaker 1: you'll see a lot of Here is a book called 620 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: Destinies of the Soul. Oh, it is a good one. 621 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,719 Speaker 1: This is a book by writer Are Scene, who say, 622 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 1: I believe it's how you pronounce it, and it was 623 00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 1: given to his friend Dr Ludovic Bouland in the eighteen eighties. 624 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 1: Now Bouland is thought to have bound the book himself 625 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,799 Speaker 1: in the skin of an unclaimed female mental patient who 626 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:59,080 Speaker 1: died of natural causes. He apparently also found a sixteenth 627 00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 1: century next on virginity and human skin. Although we don't 628 00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 1: know where that human skin came from. So this guy's 629 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: like setting off my my creepy meter. But these books 630 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:13,640 Speaker 1: are interesting, especially well really both of them, because these 631 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:15,680 Speaker 1: are the first ones that really feel like they could 632 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:20,920 Speaker 1: belong in a Lovecraftian library. Um. The one book in particular, 633 00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:25,080 Speaker 1: Destinies of the Soul eight, focuses on the afterlife and 634 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: theories of the human soul, and the book is inscribed 635 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:32,120 Speaker 1: with this. This book is bound in human skin parchment, 636 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,799 Speaker 1: on which no ornament has been stamped to preserve its elegance. 637 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,719 Speaker 1: A book about the human soul deserved to have a 638 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: human covering. I had kept this piece of human skin 639 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 1: taken from the back of a woman. Yeah, Bouland just 640 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,279 Speaker 1: really of all the people in here, he's the one 641 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 1: who really just kind of like squipped me out, gave 642 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:58,160 Speaker 1: me what do you call it, um, chill bumps. Yeah, 643 00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:00,800 Speaker 1: Now that would be interesting to have a book. But 644 00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: I guess the Book of Horror were not only is 645 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: about in human skin, but you somehow get the chill 646 00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,640 Speaker 1: bumps goose goose bumps. You get a copy of goose 647 00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: bumps skin with goose bumps. There you go. Uh, So 648 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,080 Speaker 1: there's there's lots of examples that. Robert's got a couple 649 00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: more here. But the Mudern Museum, which is in Philadelphia 650 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,080 Speaker 1: at the College of Physicians, that's that's a place where 651 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 1: you can see a couple of these. We've mentioned this 652 00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: on the show before. There's even a librarian there who 653 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:31,400 Speaker 1: specializes specifically in human skin books. Um. There's other places 654 00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: like California, Berkeley's Bankrupt Library, Brown University, in the National 655 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: Library of Australia. These are all libraries where you can 656 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:40,680 Speaker 1: go and ask to see these books. The one at 657 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 1: Brown is the one that I heard was the last 658 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,600 Speaker 1: known to be made. It was apparently bound in eight 659 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,440 Speaker 1: although you know from what we're hearing maybe there is 660 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 1: also some later on up until World War Two. Um. 661 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 1: The binder though in eighteen ninety three, didn't have enough 662 00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:58,960 Speaker 1: human skin for the book. So what they did was 663 00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,279 Speaker 1: they took the skin and they kind of haved it. 664 00:37:01,640 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: The front half uses the outer layer of skin in 665 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 1: the back and the spine or made from the inner 666 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 1: layer of skin. All right, so I have I have 667 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: a list of some other books here. I am probably 668 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,640 Speaker 1: not going to mention them all, so let me just 669 00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,239 Speaker 1: scan through and see which ones bear mentioned. Uh. There 670 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,360 Speaker 1: was an English physician bibliophile in classes named Anthony aske 671 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:23,959 Speaker 1: You in the eighteenth century. He apparently had had one 672 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: anatomy textbook bound in human flesh. Another English doctor, John Hunter, 673 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: from more or less the same time period, he had 674 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:38,720 Speaker 1: a copy of the book abalong ubad halt Krockenheiden bound 675 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: in quote healthy cured human skin. At least it was healthy. Yeah, 676 00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,040 Speaker 1: you do want to make sure it's healthy. You don't 677 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,360 Speaker 1: want like jaundice books. Yeah. And you know there are 678 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,200 Speaker 1: other accounts of eighteenth century doctors just hand enough other 679 00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: weird things to each other made from human skin. Uh. 680 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:58,280 Speaker 1: French botanist naturalist val Monte dim Boumare reported that famed 681 00:37:58,280 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: a Parisian surgeon in Sue. I could not find any 682 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: additional information on one m Sue but apparently gave it 683 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,000 Speaker 1: a pair of slippers made from human skin to a 684 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 1: museum and apparently given the museum also a belt of 685 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: human skin with nipples on it. Now. In an American example, 686 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: Joseph Leady have we touched on Leadia no um? He 687 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,240 Speaker 1: had a copy of his own elementary treatise on Human 688 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: Anatomy eighteen sixty one, bound in flesh. The inscription inside 689 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,920 Speaker 1: reads quote the leather with which this book is bound 690 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 1: is human skin from a soldier who died during the 691 00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,479 Speaker 1: Great Southern Rebellion. And by the way, in eighty six, 692 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,480 Speaker 1: Leady became the first person ever to use a microscope 693 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: to solve a murder mystery. There you go, you know 694 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: he had all that experience handling human skin, although it 695 00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:52,200 Speaker 1: seems like the book was published after his microscope discovery. Uh. 696 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,879 Speaker 1: Here's another curious incident that came up. This was a 697 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:00,239 Speaker 1: young German law student named Ernst Kaufman, and he only 698 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: lusted for fame. And he made a collection of two 699 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:09,640 Speaker 1: hundred wood cut cuts titled Hunt Boom It Mana And 700 00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: he had it bound in his own skin after death, 701 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,520 Speaker 1: and it wound up in the library of Dr Matthew 702 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,479 Speaker 1: Would of Philadelphia. See, so I could see doing that. 703 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: I could see like when I passed away saying like 704 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:25,240 Speaker 1: I don't know, uh, put a copy of Stephen King's 705 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: The Shining in Myself, you know, and get and leave 706 00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: it to Robert Lamb like something like that. And it 707 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,480 Speaker 1: doesn't That doesn't really bother me that much. But taking 708 00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:40,040 Speaker 1: somebody else's skin, especially when they're your patient. Yeah, that's 709 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:44,919 Speaker 1: where it gets it. If it's purely consensual, I thought, 710 00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,239 Speaker 1: I'm fine with it, but it's you get into a 711 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: weird area with all these other physicians we've been talking about. 712 00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,440 Speaker 1: I can't help but just picturing pinhead from the hell 713 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: raisor movies, you know what sites you'll see. Now here's 714 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: another site. This one comes This was the French apparently 715 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,799 Speaker 1: ordered the execution of a notorious criminal that was known 716 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: only as campey c A m p I. And he 717 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:11,600 Speaker 1: was to be flayed after death, and the tan Hi 718 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: be used to quote bind a volume containing the complete 719 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:18,040 Speaker 1: story of his life and exploits. That sounds a bit 720 00:40:18,120 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: nuts to me, And there's apparently no evidence that this 721 00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,239 Speaker 1: was actually carried out in a literal sense, But I 722 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,319 Speaker 1: guess it is kind of poetic, right, because what are 723 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:28,239 Speaker 1: any of us but a book bounded humanity or we'd 724 00:40:28,239 --> 00:40:29,960 Speaker 1: like to think of our This is the thing. So 725 00:40:30,040 --> 00:40:31,839 Speaker 1: where we're getting is like a lot of these are 726 00:40:31,880 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 1: French examples, their French physicians, and they love like the 727 00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: meta nature of binding books about anatomy or biology or 728 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:46,840 Speaker 1: human virginity in human skin. Now here's another example that 729 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 1: came from that Thompson source that I mentioned earlier. Uh, 730 00:40:51,400 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 1: A book binder reportedly prepared several human skin volumes for 731 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: a doctor V This is another French doctor, including a 732 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,360 Speaker 1: volume that had apples on the front. And the apparently 733 00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:05,520 Speaker 1: also was a big fan of tattooed flesh, and he 734 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 1: obtained human skin tattooed with two nights stooking it out, 735 00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,000 Speaker 1: and he ordered a copy of The Three Musketeers bound 736 00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:18,960 Speaker 1: in it. Wow, I can't imagine how bad that must look, because, like, 737 00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, I've had friends who've who've gotten kind of 738 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,719 Speaker 1: crumby tattoos in their twenties and then like now we're 739 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,000 Speaker 1: in our forties going into fifties, and it's like that's 740 00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: getting a little blurry, you know. But then like you 741 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,480 Speaker 1: take it off and you cure it and tan it 742 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,040 Speaker 1: and go through that whole process. I can't imagine that 743 00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:38,000 Speaker 1: you'd really be able to see the Knights fighting each 744 00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: other all that. Well. Yeah, Like I remember seeing old 745 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,520 Speaker 1: navy tattoos on some some old guys shoulders and church 746 00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:46,880 Speaker 1: when I was a kid, and you basically couldn't know 747 00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,799 Speaker 1: what they were anymore. Right, Yeah, they're just like kind 748 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 1: of blobs. So before we take another break and come 749 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,719 Speaker 1: back and discuss the science, I want to say that 750 00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,320 Speaker 1: I feel like the more we looked at these examples, 751 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,000 Speaker 1: the more I felt like I was answering my own 752 00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,000 Speaker 1: question about the lack of skin bound books and say 753 00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:08,160 Speaker 1: the works of HP Lovecraft, because maybe even though there's 754 00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,080 Speaker 1: one mention of tanned human hide in a book, like 755 00:42:11,200 --> 00:42:15,200 Speaker 1: maybe he and other writers of his time, we're a 756 00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:17,840 Speaker 1: little more aware of the fact that books found in 757 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:21,280 Speaker 1: human flesh were not that we're usually not that fancy, 758 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: We're not that occult and dark and secret of a thing. 759 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: It was more this kind of boring, normalized thing that 760 00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: kind of rich uppity physicians did. Yeah. So you know, 761 00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:38,040 Speaker 1: from my knowledge of horror literature, the ones that immediately 762 00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,120 Speaker 1: pop to mind and using the term literature strong here, 763 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 1: but the the ec comics and the kind of creepy 764 00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:47,520 Speaker 1: and eerie comics from the fifties bip into the seventies. 765 00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:50,600 Speaker 1: This was a common theme, I think, because they're playing 766 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,319 Speaker 1: off the burke and hair thing of like you know, 767 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,120 Speaker 1: oh no, like like there's a classic story that I think, 768 00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,719 Speaker 1: um Jack Davis Drew, I think there was like a 769 00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: butcher who was like procuring dead bodies for a client 770 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,520 Speaker 1: or something like that, or maybe it was like you know, 771 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: there were there were multiple stories that were like this. 772 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,919 Speaker 1: Like one of them was like a people who owned 773 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,520 Speaker 1: a funeral home and business was low and so like. 774 00:43:14,840 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: So there were all these like weird stories of just 775 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:21,920 Speaker 1: procuring dead bodies for various menacing means, and oftentimes they 776 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 1: end up as books or something like that at the 777 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: end of these stories. But you're right, like that was 778 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,400 Speaker 1: like a good I don't know, thirty years after Lovecraft 779 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: was working. Yeah, so maybe you just had to they 780 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,240 Speaker 1: had to be a certain amount of time that passed 781 00:43:34,239 --> 00:43:37,560 Speaker 1: before this could become cool again. Right, It kind of 782 00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 1: like was outside of the popular consciousness. Yeah, that's my 783 00:43:41,840 --> 00:43:44,400 Speaker 1: that's just a theory. Anyway, Well, let's take another break, 784 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,680 Speaker 1: and when we get back, let's get into the science 785 00:43:47,719 --> 00:43:50,560 Speaker 1: of how you actually figure out if your book is 786 00:43:50,600 --> 00:43:57,600 Speaker 1: bound in human flesh. Alright, we're back. So, as we 787 00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:02,200 Speaker 1: discussed human hide, is that different different from other hides? 788 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: And ultimately we have a book that is allegedly bound 789 00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: in human flesh? How can you tell? Yeah, well, the 790 00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,080 Speaker 1: way to identify human leather. Okay, first of all, it 791 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: obviously has different poor sizes and shapes than a pig 792 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 1: or a calf skin. Right. Apparently, it also has a 793 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: waxy smell that is sometimes used to identify fraudulent books. 794 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,799 Speaker 1: But when human skin is tanned, it's DNA traces are 795 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,560 Speaker 1: mostly destroyed, so it's much harder to identify a specific donor. 796 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:35,360 Speaker 1: Usually historians have to turn to inscriptions and historical records. Right. 797 00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:37,319 Speaker 1: We've mentioned this with several of the examples, like on 798 00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,000 Speaker 1: the inside of the book it says, YadA, YadA, YadA, 799 00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: this book was bound and so and so skin um. 800 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:47,000 Speaker 1: But when you really need to know, you get a 801 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: scientist and you turn to a method called peptide mass fingerprinting, 802 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: and this identifies proteins to create a PMF that's a 803 00:44:56,280 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: fingerprint basically that allows analysts to identify the source of 804 00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:04,880 Speaker 1: the flesh. Now at Harvard they did this with the 805 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,440 Speaker 1: destinies of the Soul book we were talking about, and 806 00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: they confirmed, yes, it is human skin. Uh, though there 807 00:45:11,280 --> 00:45:15,640 Speaker 1: is a chance that it could be a closely related 808 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: primate like a gibbon or a great ape, but it's 809 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,719 Speaker 1: definitely not cheap cattle or goats. So we'll get into 810 00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,600 Speaker 1: this in a minute. But but they can narrow it 811 00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:27,080 Speaker 1: down to sort of like your the family. You know, 812 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 1: even if the book were just bound in the hide 813 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,759 Speaker 1: of of a gibbon, that's still impressive. I think it 814 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:37,680 Speaker 1: would be creepy. Yeah. Um, they're sure in this one 815 00:45:37,719 --> 00:45:42,120 Speaker 1: case because they followed up the PMF with a liquid 816 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 1: chromatography tandem mass spectrometry. Uh. And they did this to 817 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:50,840 Speaker 1: determine the order of the amino acids that are in 818 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,920 Speaker 1: the sample. These are basically the building blocks of each 819 00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:57,840 Speaker 1: of the peptides that are different in each species. Harvard 820 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,399 Speaker 1: has done similar testings on books they thought were human skin, 821 00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,920 Speaker 1: but instead they turned out to be sheep skin. And 822 00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:08,439 Speaker 1: here's an example. Uh, there was this book that it's 823 00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:12,080 Speaker 1: referred to the coloring as being quote subdued yellow with 824 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:15,480 Speaker 1: a sporadic brown and black splotches like an old banana. 825 00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,040 Speaker 1: And they thought it was human skin. It was supposedly 826 00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: the skin of a man named Jonas Wright who was 827 00:46:21,719 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 1: flayed alive by an African tribe who then turned him 828 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,840 Speaker 1: into a book. Uh. And it's a total fake when 829 00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: that sounds saying, because when you think African tribe, you 830 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: don't think, oh, well, modern European book buying. Yeah, exactly right. 831 00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,920 Speaker 1: Like the minute I read about that, I was like, 832 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:40,239 Speaker 1: of all of these examples here, that's the one that 833 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:45,480 Speaker 1: just sounds like kind of just like this racist stereotype example. Right. Um, 834 00:46:45,560 --> 00:46:47,640 Speaker 1: And there's a lot of fakes out there too, including 835 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,600 Speaker 1: one that was purported to be made from the skin 836 00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:54,680 Speaker 1: of Christmas Addicts, Addicts being an African American man who 837 00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: was one of the first victims, if not the first, 838 00:46:57,640 --> 00:47:01,319 Speaker 1: at the Boston massacre leading to the Revolutionary War. Um. 839 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:05,640 Speaker 1: This is where we enter into the anthropedermic book project. 840 00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 1: So this is the team of scientists that I've been 841 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,680 Speaker 1: referring to. Their goal is to create a census of 842 00:47:10,719 --> 00:47:14,920 Speaker 1: the alleged anthropedermic books in the world. And they say 843 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:18,040 Speaker 1: their method is easy, that it's inexpensive. In fact, it 844 00:47:18,080 --> 00:47:20,960 Speaker 1: costs less than a hundred dollars per book, and it's authoritative, 845 00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:25,600 Speaker 1: and they started in their current count as of September 846 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:31,760 Speaker 1: is they have seen examined forty seven alleged books, thirty 847 00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:35,200 Speaker 1: are in the process of being tested. Eighteen have been 848 00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: confirmed as human skin, and twelve have been confirmed as 849 00:47:38,760 --> 00:47:43,760 Speaker 1: not human skin. So the majority, though have have turned 850 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,800 Speaker 1: out to actually be turned out. Yeah. Uh. They also 851 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,080 Speaker 1: they use this PMF method that I refer to, and 852 00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 1: they explain it further. They say, the technique uses enzymatic 853 00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:58,839 Speaker 1: digestion of extracted collagen to cut the protein at specific 854 00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: amino acids ights that form a mixture of peptides. And 855 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,680 Speaker 1: basically they placed the sample in an enzyme bath that 856 00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:10,719 Speaker 1: digests the collagen in it down into peptides. Now, each 857 00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,960 Speaker 1: mammal has a unique amino acid sequence in our collagen, 858 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: so the mixture of peptides is like a unique fingerprint. Uh. 859 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:25,719 Speaker 1: They also use matrix assisted laser disorption ionization time of 860 00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: flight mass spectrometry. The acronym for that is Maldy good 861 00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:34,839 Speaker 1: Old much much easier to say, uh, And they use 862 00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:38,880 Speaker 1: this to analyze these peptide mixtures for specific marker icons. 863 00:48:39,239 --> 00:48:40,719 Speaker 1: Now that this is what they say. They say they 864 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,720 Speaker 1: prefer the PMF method to DNA analysis because it quickly 865 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:51,120 Speaker 1: differentiates the hominid family from things like sheep, goats, pigs, cow, 866 00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,520 Speaker 1: and deer. The usual kinds of skins that are used 867 00:48:53,520 --> 00:48:57,399 Speaker 1: for book binding. It is very unlikely that a book 868 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,719 Speaker 1: from the nineteenth century would be bound in the skin 869 00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:03,040 Speaker 1: of another member of the Grade eight family, So they 870 00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:07,600 Speaker 1: feel pretty comfortable if it's an older rare book, saying, well, 871 00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 1: if it's part of the hominid family, it's more likely 872 00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,919 Speaker 1: that it's a human being than it is a given. Yeah. 873 00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,040 Speaker 1: Because so, as we discussed part of the whole reason 874 00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: for books being bound in human fleshes, you had human 875 00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:20,480 Speaker 1: flesh just sort of sitting around, Yeah, and people made 876 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,319 Speaker 1: use of it. How difficult was it to procure a 877 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,720 Speaker 1: gibbon back then, you know? Uh? So they also prefer 878 00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:30,960 Speaker 1: collagen testing to DNA because it lasts longer, especially if 879 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,280 Speaker 1: the skin is preserved through tanning or mummification. Uh. Collagen 880 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,040 Speaker 1: is really tough and it can be analyzed long after death. 881 00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:42,000 Speaker 1: So the thing that they point out here about DNA, 882 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,759 Speaker 1: this is something that Joe and I talked about in 883 00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:48,520 Speaker 1: our Forensics episode, is that DNA can lead to false positives. 884 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:50,760 Speaker 1: For instance, like when a person is handling the book, 885 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:55,880 Speaker 1: maybe their DNA gets accidentally magnified. Right. Uh. They do, however, 886 00:49:55,920 --> 00:50:00,000 Speaker 1: recognize that PMF cannot tell whether the skin came from, 887 00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,800 Speaker 1: for instance, a man or a woman, where the person 888 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,520 Speaker 1: might have come from, and who their relatives were, while 889 00:50:05,640 --> 00:50:10,600 Speaker 1: DNA can another method they discount is something called follical 890 00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,200 Speaker 1: pattern recognition. And the premise here is that human skin 891 00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,719 Speaker 1: patterns are arranged in different shapes and other animals. Uh. 892 00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,120 Speaker 1: So people would, you know, compare these patterns and say, well, 893 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: that's human skin, that sheep skin. Uh. They say, though 894 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,400 Speaker 1: this is pretty subjective, especially if the pattern gets changed 895 00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:32,759 Speaker 1: by processing, dying, and stretching of the skin. And they say, 896 00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:37,560 Speaker 1: they only need tiny, tiny samples, something visible under thirty 897 00:50:37,800 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: times magnification is sufficient material for analysis, and this is 898 00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,839 Speaker 1: comparably the size of a needle prick. Uh. So what 899 00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,200 Speaker 1: they do is, uh, they began the a BP team uh. 900 00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:53,040 Speaker 1: And they have been confirming books as not being human 901 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,120 Speaker 1: skin or being human skin. Um. One of the examples 902 00:50:56,280 --> 00:51:01,080 Speaker 1: is the Biblioteca Politica that was that June Niata College 903 00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,799 Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania, and it was thought to be anthropodermic and 904 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,920 Speaker 1: it fascinated students, especially during Halloween, so they would come 905 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,920 Speaker 1: into the library they'd want to all look at it. 906 00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,759 Speaker 1: After the PMF test, though, it turns out it was 907 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:16,279 Speaker 1: sheep skin. So not every institution actually wants to go 908 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:18,600 Speaker 1: public with these results. Some of them are hiring these 909 00:51:18,640 --> 00:51:20,600 Speaker 1: folks to come in and do the tests, but they're 910 00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 1: not releasing the results because the mystery of the human 911 00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,880 Speaker 1: skin bound books. You know, that's attracting visitors. Yeah, I mean, 912 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:31,680 Speaker 1: especially given how ultimately unimpressive some of these books are 913 00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,279 Speaker 1: on their own. If you take away the the the 914 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:36,000 Speaker 1: idea that they're bound and even flesh, what are you 915 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:39,960 Speaker 1: left with? Yeah, just some like old court papers. Now 916 00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:42,880 Speaker 1: fast forward to to today, and generally you're not going 917 00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:48,320 Speaker 1: to find much in the way of human bound books more. However, 918 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:52,120 Speaker 1: one interesting example that I came across was a proposal 919 00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,120 Speaker 1: for a skin book made from synthetic flesh for aspiring 920 00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,720 Speaker 1: tattoo artists. This was in the apparently made the rounds 921 00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:04,560 Speaker 1: and the news back in Tattoo Art magazine commissioned Brazilian 922 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:07,880 Speaker 1: ad agency to help bring this idea to fruition, and 923 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: so the idea would be that they would have it 924 00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,000 Speaker 1: would have it would be a little like a mole 925 00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:15,440 Speaker 1: skinned book, except it's human skin book with pages of 926 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:20,920 Speaker 1: human skin to you know, test out your tattooing skills. Okay, 927 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:23,560 Speaker 1: So like the inside of the book is like your 928 00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:26,480 Speaker 1: instructions on how to be a tattoo artist. And then 929 00:52:26,719 --> 00:52:30,040 Speaker 1: when you're practicing with your tattoo machine. You're doing it 930 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:31,839 Speaker 1: on the cover of your book, kind of like when 931 00:52:31,880 --> 00:52:34,000 Speaker 1: we used to, like as kids, wrap our books up 932 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,239 Speaker 1: in grocery bags and then we draw all over them. 933 00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,279 Speaker 1: Uh No, actually this one would have been like all 934 00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:41,879 Speaker 1: the pages inside would have been blank pages of skin. 935 00:52:42,080 --> 00:52:45,400 Speaker 1: I think that, but that was the proposal. Wow, okay, okay, 936 00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,759 Speaker 1: now that seems this is this is like a lot 937 00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:50,360 Speaker 1: of these these things that have come out, like the 938 00:52:50,360 --> 00:52:52,799 Speaker 1: Alexander McQueen thing, where someone saying, hey, we could do this, 939 00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:56,359 Speaker 1: let's do it. If it actually gets it's made, that's 940 00:52:56,360 --> 00:53:00,640 Speaker 1: another thing. But it does. It's the the uh, the 941 00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:04,080 Speaker 1: advancing technology being able to you know, clone human skin, 942 00:53:04,239 --> 00:53:08,279 Speaker 1: grow human tissue away from a human body. It does 943 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:13,600 Speaker 1: bring the possibility of human bound books back. Like I 944 00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,880 Speaker 1: can kind of imagine a future where you'll have special 945 00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:20,440 Speaker 1: hard bound editions of certain books that will come out 946 00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:23,040 Speaker 1: and you'll be able to get it in. I mean, 947 00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:26,279 Speaker 1: take for instance, Stephen King you mentioned earlier. So one 948 00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,840 Speaker 1: day Steve will not be with us anymore. It's not conceived, 949 00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,239 Speaker 1: it's not inconceivable that there will be a sample of 950 00:53:32,239 --> 00:53:35,560 Speaker 1: his tissue somewhere and there will and there will be, uh, 951 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,200 Speaker 1: there'll be someone will be given permission to clone that 952 00:53:38,239 --> 00:53:41,480 Speaker 1: tissue and you could buy copies, you could buy the 953 00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:45,280 Speaker 1: Stephen King Library and and each book would be found 954 00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,120 Speaker 1: in Steve's skin. Those super I don't know if you've 955 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,400 Speaker 1: seen these, those like super fancy cemetery dance editions of 956 00:53:51,400 --> 00:53:54,360 Speaker 1: his booth that are like, you know, really nicely bound. 957 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:57,000 Speaker 1: But yeah, like even further than that, well, I mean 958 00:53:57,040 --> 00:53:59,440 Speaker 1: like given research that we have done for other episodes 959 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,239 Speaker 1: on this show, we're not conceivably that far away from 960 00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,919 Speaker 1: being able to three D print human skin. So yeah, 961 00:54:07,040 --> 00:54:09,359 Speaker 1: I mean, as as long as you're not. Again, like 962 00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,920 Speaker 1: my my line is like, if you're taking it from 963 00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: somebody without asking them, that's not cool. I guess I'm 964 00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:18,960 Speaker 1: okay with it. If you're making human skin based on 965 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:23,279 Speaker 1: somebody else's DNA, but there they you know, they don't 966 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,200 Speaker 1: have a say in it. That I think I'm okay 967 00:54:26,200 --> 00:54:28,680 Speaker 1: with that, And of course I'm okay you want to 968 00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,399 Speaker 1: take my skin. I gotta think about this now. It's 969 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:34,400 Speaker 1: really got to change my whole will what book is 970 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:37,400 Speaker 1: going to be bound in my skin? And who gets it? 971 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:39,439 Speaker 1: That's a tough decision. Like you want your own book 972 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 1: bound in your human skin? Or is that? Is that 973 00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,640 Speaker 1: being too self a little pretentious? So you gotta pick 974 00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,399 Speaker 1: something that you just really admire, and you admire enough 975 00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:52,680 Speaker 1: to actually have part of your body wrapped around it. Well, 976 00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,200 Speaker 1: we'd certainly love to hear from any of our listeners 977 00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,120 Speaker 1: out there who have thoughts on that. What book would 978 00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:02,120 Speaker 1: you would you submit your flesh? Four? Would you want 979 00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:05,239 Speaker 1: to be utilized in the binding for we can look 980 00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,120 Speaker 1: here from What part of your body do you think 981 00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:09,560 Speaker 1: would be best for it? I guess I guess that 982 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:13,960 Speaker 1: the Mary Lynch doctor maybe had it right. The thigh 983 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,319 Speaker 1: seems like a good place to start, but uh, you know, 984 00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 1: I don't know, I've never really been in that situation. 985 00:55:19,880 --> 00:55:22,719 Speaker 1: You know. Earlier, I know, we talked about tattoos not 986 00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:27,719 Speaker 1: aging well and questioned how how these books would work 987 00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,799 Speaker 1: if it were possible to preserve it, And I'm not 988 00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:33,920 Speaker 1: sure how that really works. How the tiny the tanning 989 00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:38,080 Speaker 1: process affects tattoo quality. I could see tattooed flesh making 990 00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:40,480 Speaker 1: for a nice book cover run Oh yeah, yeah, like 991 00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:43,319 Speaker 1: if you took like a full sleeve, that could be 992 00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,719 Speaker 1: really cool looking. So if you want to share your 993 00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,040 Speaker 1: pictures of your human skin bound books, or maybe your 994 00:55:50,040 --> 00:55:52,160 Speaker 1: tattoos that you would like to use to cover some 995 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,560 Speaker 1: books with in the future. There are lots of places 996 00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:55,920 Speaker 1: you can get in touch with us at and you 997 00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,080 Speaker 1: can send us those. We're all over social media. We're 998 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,719 Speaker 1: on Facebook, we're on Twitter, we're on tumbler, and we 999 00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:05,200 Speaker 1: are on Instagram, and you can always visit us at 1000 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:07,520 Speaker 1: stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. That's right, that's 1001 00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:09,960 Speaker 1: the mother ship. That's where you find all the podcast episodes, 1002 00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,560 Speaker 1: including the various playing episodes we mentioned earlier. I'll try 1003 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:15,359 Speaker 1: and link to all of those in the landing page 1004 00:56:15,400 --> 00:56:18,120 Speaker 1: for this episode, as well as from the outside sources 1005 00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:21,160 Speaker 1: we not mentioned. And as always, if you want to 1006 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,680 Speaker 1: just write us the old fashioned way, we're at blow 1007 00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:36,359 Speaker 1: the Mind at how stuff works dot com for more 1008 00:56:36,360 --> 00:56:38,680 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Is that how 1009 00:56:38,719 --> 00:57:00,920 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com. Remember no, no,