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Speaker 1: Mother Knows Dad starring Nicole and Jemmy and Maria qk Hi.

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Speaker 1: Everyone welcome The Mother Knows Death. On this episode, we

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Speaker 1: are going to be talking about more celebrity death conspiracy theories,

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Speaker 1: the astronauts that were stranded in space finally coming home,

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Speaker 1: a man who lived with his dead girlfriend for twenty days,

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Speaker 1: and not telling your family when you have a terminal illness.

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Speaker 1: We also have a lot more to discuss on today's episode,

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Speaker 1: So let's start off with this newest celebrity death conspiracy theory.

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Speaker 2: All right, So basically this new docu series drafted on Apple,

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Speaker 2: where these people are saying they believe that Jim Morrison

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Speaker 2: of The Doors is alive even though we believe that

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Speaker 2: he died back in nineteen seventy one.

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Speaker 1: So is this something that is new because I know

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Speaker 1: that forever there's been conspiracy theories of him and Elvis

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Speaker 1: and whoever else like still being alive. There's been parodies

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Speaker 1: in movies. Do you remember I think it was like

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Speaker 1: death that Becomes Her. They were, you know, like all

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Speaker 1: those people had taken that potion and there was like

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Speaker 1: this party afterwards, and Elvis was there, and you know,

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Speaker 1: like things like that, like fun things and movies, just

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Speaker 1: acting like these people are still alive. So I mean,

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Speaker 1: there was definitely shadiness when he died, so I could

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Speaker 1: understand why people this is exactly why conspiracy theories happened,

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Speaker 1: because things aren't done according to protocol, right, Yeah, I mean.

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Speaker 2: When he died. He was only twenty seven when he died,

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Speaker 2: and it was just after they finished recording an album

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Speaker 2: and he was notably dealing with severe drug problems at

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Speaker 2: the time. But basically he was found dead in a bathtub.

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Speaker 2: They didn't do an autopsy, and then he got buried

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Speaker 2: in pairs, which I thought was really weird. But I

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Speaker 2: don't really know all that much about his life and

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Speaker 2: maybe if he wanted to be buried there or whatever,

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Speaker 2: but it all seemed to go down pretty quickly. But

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Speaker 2: it is unusual, in my opinion, it's unusual that they

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Speaker 2: wouldn't do an autopsy, especially on such a high profile person.

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Speaker 1: So was his girlfriend at the time. I don't really

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Speaker 1: know a ton about this. Was his girlfriend at the

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Speaker 1: time from France.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think she was. I think that she

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Speaker 2: was American and they met in the United States. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so well, regardless they they were there, and I've seen

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Speaker 2: a couple different things that she was They were a

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Speaker 2: longtime girlfriend and boyfriend, so there might have been a

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Speaker 2: thing that he was considered to be common law with her,

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Speaker 2: which may give her some rights as far.

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Speaker 1: As where he's buried. And maybe, I mean, one possibility

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Speaker 1: is that they just loved that city and that is

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Speaker 1: where she would thought he would want to be buried.

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Speaker 1: But I just have a lot of questions about how

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Speaker 1: it all went down. So I guess the first shady

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Speaker 1: thing is is that he died and they didn't alert

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Speaker 1: anybody or the media, Like nobody knew for six days,

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Speaker 1: and he was already buried by the time the public

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Speaker 1: found out, so his family and friends were very surprised

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Speaker 1: to hear about it. And I feel like her story

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Speaker 1: changed a lot about what happened that night.

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Speaker 2: And she was a drug addict too, and I think

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Speaker 2: I think she ended up overdosing not long after him, So.

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Speaker 1: Regardless, her story changed a lot. And then obviously when

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Speaker 1: people are on drugs are drinking and stuff, the whole

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Speaker 1: story is going to change. But I guess it did

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Speaker 1: come out to be true years later that the scene

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Speaker 1: was not initially what investigators suspected, so they came up

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Speaker 1: to the house and found him in the bathtub dead.

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Speaker 1: But then later when they did some investigation, witnesses came

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Speaker 1: forward and said that it actually, this is the newest

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Speaker 1: allegation that it appears that he had an overdose in

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Speaker 1: a nightclub that night, and he had been found in

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Speaker 1: the nightclub bathroom, bent over the toilet, unresponsive, and the

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Speaker 1: people that had sold him the drugs that night had

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Speaker 1: taken him back to the house and put him in

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Speaker 1: the bathtub. Now, the shady thing that comes out of

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Speaker 1: that is that these two people who were selling the

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Speaker 1: drugs at the club were these high profile drug dealers

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Speaker 1: that sold to celebrities, and they were called aristocrats or whatever.

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Speaker 1: They're really high profile people, and they were trying to

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Speaker 1: cover it up. And the very interesting thing is that

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Speaker 1: there's allegations that one of these drug dealers was having

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Speaker 1: an affair with Jim Morrison's girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's totally possible that this happened. It was

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Speaker 2: also the seventies, so just like it's the seventies, you're

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Speaker 2: in a different country. They have different forensic protocols when

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Speaker 2: it comes to finding a dead person.

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Speaker 1: I do clearly know standards whatsoever, because this easily could

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Speaker 1: have been figured out. And I guess you know, we

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Speaker 1: could say this with all sorts of celebrity deaths, that

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Speaker 1: normal protocols aren't aren't followed, and look what happens. Like

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Speaker 1: so in a normal situation, you would one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: do an autopsy. In this case because the guys twenty

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Speaker 1: seven drugs were involved. There's just multiple reasons why you

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Speaker 1: would do an autopsy in this case. The girlfriend said

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Speaker 1: she found them, like okay, okay, Like why don't we

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Speaker 1: do the autopsy and figure out what really happened because

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Speaker 1: we're not listening to people's stories because I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's just been a history of people lying about what

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Speaker 1: actually happened forever. So that's why autopsies are done. So

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Speaker 1: the very first thing that we could notice with just

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Speaker 1: an external exam in a situation like that is if

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Speaker 1: his body was indeed moved after he died, so that

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Speaker 1: could have been something that was done without even cutting

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Speaker 1: his body open. Is to be able to tell that.

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Speaker 1: And the way that we could tell that is, so

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Speaker 1: let's say, for example, the story that we're hearing is

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Speaker 1: true that he did in fact die at the nightclub, so,

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Speaker 1: which is which is also interesting because of what the

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Speaker 1: witnesses said. So they went in the bathroom and they

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Speaker 1: found them slumped over the toilet for an unknown amount

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Speaker 1: of time. And this person that found him had said

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Speaker 1: that he was unresponsive, he was already dead, and he

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Speaker 1: had foam coming out of his mouth and his nose.

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Speaker 1: And this is what is expected to be seen in

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Speaker 1: a person who has had an opioid overdose because it

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Speaker 1: depresses the respiratory centers in the brain and it causes

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Speaker 1: pulmonary edema, which is fluid in the lungs. So when

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Speaker 1: people are taking their last breaths, that little bit of

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Speaker 1: air mixed with that fluid creates a foam and it

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Speaker 1: froths out through the nose and at autopsy you would

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Speaker 1: see that in the long tissue as well as in

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Speaker 1: the trachea. But so this is important that this guy

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Speaker 1: saw this. But when you die, all of the blood

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Speaker 1: leaves your circulatory system and it starts going to the

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Speaker 1: dependent areas based upon gravity. So, for example, when we

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Speaker 1: do autopsies on people who die in the hospital, when

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Speaker 1: you die laying in bed, when the blood starts leaving

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Speaker 1: your circulatory system, it goes to the lowest point, which

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Speaker 1: would be the entire back of your body, and that's

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Speaker 1: what we see usually in hospital autopsies. But if he died,

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Speaker 1: for example, in the bathroom at this club, and was

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Speaker 1: bent over the toilet, so let's say he was kneeling

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Speaker 1: next to it like you would be if you were vomiting,

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Speaker 1: then you would expect to see this blood pulling. This

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Speaker 1: is also called lividity or live re mortis. You would

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Speaker 1: see this in the front of his body wherever he

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Speaker 1: was leaning over, so you would see it in his

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Speaker 1: face and his belly. So even if those guys picked

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Speaker 1: him up and moved him back to the house and

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Speaker 1: put him in the bathtub, you would still expect to

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Speaker 1: see the live re mortis on the front of his body,

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Speaker 1: which to any death investigator you would be like HM's

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Speaker 1: that he has lividity on the front of his body

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Speaker 1: when he was found in the bathtub on his back.

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Speaker 1: So do you understand like that that to me would

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Speaker 1: be really unusual. I guess the girlfriend said that he

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Speaker 1: had blood coming out of his nose in his mouth.

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Speaker 1: And another way that you could explain that is that

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Speaker 1: when a body starts decomposing, the bacteria start breaking down

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Speaker 1: the organs, and this fluid could come The organs essentially

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Speaker 1: start to liquefy and they could come out of the mouth,

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Speaker 1: especially when the bodies move. So sometimes if we find

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Speaker 1: a body there's nothing there and then you move the

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Speaker 1: body just to bring the body to the morgan, this

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Speaker 1: fluid comes out of their mouth and nose, and it's

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Speaker 1: not really blood. It's like a brownish fluid. It's called purge,

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Speaker 1: but some people mistake it to look like blood. So

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Speaker 1: that's another indication that he was moved, and also that

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Speaker 1: he was decomposing for some time before authorities were called

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Speaker 1: to the house. So this is exactly why autopsies need

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Speaker 1: to be done, because you just can't especially with people

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Speaker 1: that are on drugs, you can't trust them.

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Speaker 2: Wait, I have a side note question. So this new

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Speaker 2: show came out this week with Amanda Seifred on Peacock.

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Speaker 2: It's she's like a cop in Kensington in Philly and

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Speaker 2: she deals with like all the drug addicts on K

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Speaker 2: and A and everything. But on the first episode of

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Speaker 2: the show, all these women are showing up dead and

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Speaker 2: then they're saying the medical examiner is just like, oh,

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Speaker 2: they just odeed, so we're not doing autopsies. Is that

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Speaker 2: standard that they would find an ode person on the

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Speaker 2: street and does not assume.

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Speaker 1: No they And that was actually interesting to me as

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Speaker 1: a student because I remember one time and we had

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Speaker 1: so many drug cases and this was when it wasn't

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Speaker 1: even super crazy like it is now in Philly, but

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Speaker 1: we would do We had an autopsy on this one

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Speaker 1: guy who was like my age. He was in his

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Speaker 1: young twenties and he odd in the basement of his

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Speaker 1: house and his parents found him dead, and it was

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Speaker 1: I just was upset about it because I was like,

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Speaker 1: this is terrible for parents to find their kids. And

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Speaker 1: the mom said, you know, he's had problems his whole

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Speaker 1: life and this and that. So my first question, because

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Speaker 1: this is when I was a student still, I was

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Speaker 1: kind of like, all right, well, he has injection marks

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Speaker 1: in his arm, he has this long standing history of

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Speaker 1: overdosing and being on drugs, Like he was found in

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Speaker 1: all the classic ways you would see from an overdose death,

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Speaker 1: Like why are we doing this autopsy right now? And

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Speaker 1: that's just what happens. They're all done because you don't

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Speaker 1: really know, you just want to confirm it. Toxicology will

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Speaker 1: confirm it. And this is another thing too, like you

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Speaker 1: have a guy that overdosed and you didn't even do toxicology.

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Speaker 1: They actually came out and said with Jim Morrison that

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Speaker 1: his cause of death was or his manner of death

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Speaker 1: was natural. And they said that maybe he had a

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Speaker 1: heart attack. Yes, they didn't even say that. The speculation

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Speaker 1: of him overdosing actually didn't even come up until fans

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Speaker 1: back in the US were just like, Yeah, this guy

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Speaker 1: had like a drug problem and he probably over.

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Speaker 2: And how is a twenty seven year old that's seemingly

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Speaker 2: healthy just gonna have a heart attack and die.

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Speaker 1: Well, that could happen, so don't you don't mind.

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Speaker 2: But I'm saying it's not usual, and they're therefore in

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Speaker 2: autopos It absolutely is not usual. And especially listen when anybody,

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Speaker 2: like if you had a twenty seven year old that

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Speaker 2: was it, that went to the hospital and then got

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Speaker 2: diagnosed with a heart condition, maybe a congenital heart condition

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Speaker 2: that was unknown or something, and they died, it might

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Speaker 2: not be indicative to do an autopsy when you find

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Speaker 2: a twenty seven year old dead in a bathtub, like

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Speaker 2: it's you do an autopsy, You just do, especially when

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Speaker 2: they have a history of drugs, especially when they're freaking

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Speaker 2: Jim Morrison, Like, the whole thing's crazy. But I mean, listen,

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Speaker 2: I don't even know what happened in the seventies in

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Speaker 2: this country, let alone. But I do know.

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Speaker 1: Because we've covered a lot of celebrity death dissections that

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Speaker 1: happened during this time period, and I do know that

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Speaker 1: they had the ability to see all of these things

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Speaker 1: that I'm talking about right now. They had toxicology, They

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Speaker 1: had the ability to use a knife and cut him

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Speaker 1: open and look at his lungs, look at them under

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Speaker 1: the microscope, and they would easily been able to rest

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Speaker 1: all of this. But maybe, I mean, maybe they were

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Speaker 1: afraid of the media getting crazy and they just wanted

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Speaker 1: to get him in the ground and move on. But

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Speaker 1: I always think it's suspicious when people are very quick

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Speaker 1: to get someone in the ground.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, this is kind of adding to why this

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Speaker 2: docuseries has come out and is really controversial, because they're

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Speaker 2: basically alluding to the fact that because of how suspicious

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Speaker 2: his death was and how quickly he was buried in everything,

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Speaker 2: that they think he might have faked his death, and

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Speaker 2: that he's this man named Frank that's currently living in Syracuse,

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Speaker 2: New York. So I don't know how this filmmaker came

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Speaker 2: to this conclusion or ended up finding this person named Frank.

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Speaker 2: They did interview this man, I will say. Looking at

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Speaker 2: pictures of him and a young Jim Morrison, they do

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Speaker 2: look very similar. But again, this could be solved with

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Speaker 2: a simple DNA test. So I don't know why there's.

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Speaker 1: Alla And his brother is in the documentary as well,

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Speaker 1: I believe, so that again very very simple for them

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Speaker 1: to figure that out. And also I mean in theory,

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Speaker 1: if he was buried in Paris, he's his body's still there,

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Speaker 1: like if you really if if you really wanted to know,

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Speaker 1: and the brother is the legal next to kin, I mean,

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Speaker 1: it just exzoom him and find out. Exzoom the body

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Speaker 1: and see if it's him. I mean, this could just

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Speaker 1: be close. What's the why is it like this? What

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Speaker 1: is there so many questions about it's I feel like

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Speaker 1: it's an easy fix.

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Speaker 2: Well, I feel like it's an easy answer. I was

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Speaker 2: looking online and it doesn't seem like the reviews of

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Speaker 2: the docuseries are that great and saying it's very long

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Speaker 2: and drawn out and not really giving definitive answers, so

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Speaker 2: kind of what's the point. But I yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: if you just look at the pictures of these people

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Speaker 2: next to each other, you could say that. But everybody

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Speaker 2: has doppelgangers, so you can't just say that this man

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Speaker 2: is is Jim Morrison. And maybe he is, but like,

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Speaker 2: just get the DNA test.

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Speaker 1: One of the questions that I did have about this, though,

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Speaker 1: is to see who the beneficiary was. Because I did,

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Speaker 1: I couldn't really get a clear answer. It seems like

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Speaker 1: she could have been, like I said, because they were

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Speaker 1: saying that they were common law because he did he

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Speaker 1: had money, right, And I mean, come on, if this

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Speaker 1: woman was having an affair with the guy that sold

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Speaker 1: him drugs, I mean, it is quite possible that it

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Speaker 1: was just a bad batch or whatever he just did

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Speaker 1: too much, because that happens often. But it's a little

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Speaker 1: shady that the guy who gave you the drugs that

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Speaker 1: killed you was actually having an affair with his girlfriend.

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Speaker 1: Like it's just yeah, but what would be the point

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Speaker 1: of inheriting it if she ended up over overdosing not

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Speaker 1: that long after him. Well, she didn't know she was

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Speaker 1: going to She didn't know she was going to die.

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Speaker 1: And furthermore, like if she had any involvement with his death,

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Speaker 1: she probably if she if it was truly accidental, she

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Speaker 1: might have felt terrible about it. And I mean, anyway,

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Speaker 1: if you do heroin, the chances of you still doing

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Speaker 1: it are just going to be greater, and especially if

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Speaker 1: you have a big loss. So I'm not necessarily saying

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Speaker 1: that it was intentional, but it's also just kind of

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Speaker 1: like it just deems an investigation at the very least.

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Speaker 2: So I'm sure most of our listeners know about this too.

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Speaker 2: But Jim Morrison's in this like unofficial club called the

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Speaker 2: twenty seven Club, which is these people that were young

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Speaker 2: and at the peak of their career that ended up

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Speaker 2: dying when they were twenty seven years old. So in

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Speaker 2: addition to Jim Morrison, there's Jimmy Hendrix, Kurt Cobain, and

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Speaker 2: Janis Joplin. They all died when they were I think

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Speaker 2: Keith Ledger too. Oh maybe he thought I thought he

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Speaker 2: was a little older, but maybe not.

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying.

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Speaker 2: Aren't they all drug related deaths? Yeah, every single person

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Speaker 2: that's in this club. So I think that's really interesting

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Speaker 2: culturally that you reach this point and then you're just like,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I was talking to Ricky about this

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Speaker 2: recently because I really love the Doors music. I know

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Speaker 2: you're not the biggest fan of the era of music,

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Speaker 2: but I really love their songs, and I was saying

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Speaker 2: how I was surprised that the band put up with

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Speaker 2: him because he seemed like such a fucking miss with

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Speaker 2: the way he gave me.

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Speaker 1: Why they put up with him because he was the

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Speaker 1: band Nobody can even can name one of the other

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Speaker 1: members unless you're like a superfan.

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Speaker 2: No, I know that. So it's like it kind of

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Speaker 2: sucks because you're faced with this person that's such a problem,

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Speaker 2: but he's the face of your band, Like, yeah, they

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Speaker 2: could have kicked him out and got another singer, but

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't have been the same never goes over, Well, no,

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Speaker 2: it never would, and it's you know it happened with

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Speaker 2: Nirvana to like the singers die and then your whole

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Speaker 2: band's over.

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Speaker 1: I do see though, like I know that the same

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Speaker 1: thing happened with Kirk Cobain, that he was just kind

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Speaker 1: of over the band and the fame and all of it.

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Speaker 1: And I can see a time where people, especially like

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Speaker 1: if this was totally he totally could have faked his

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Speaker 1: own death for sure, the way that this went down.

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Speaker 1: But I could see you just wanting to be like,

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Speaker 1: you know what, like I'm just going to fall off

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Speaker 1: the face of the earth and act like I died

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Speaker 1: and I'm just gonna another identity. One of the things

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Speaker 1: I think I saw from the clip of the documentary

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Speaker 1: was saying that his Social Security number was still active.

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Speaker 1: But you know, from other stories here, I was gonna

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Speaker 1: say that I was going to say, like, I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure that we just learned that there's like hundreds of

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Speaker 1: thousands of Social Security numbers that are still active. Like

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Speaker 1: if he died in Paris and nobody really ever reported

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Speaker 1: it to the United States, then there's a possibility that

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Speaker 1: just that's all it is, and unless like someone's physically

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Speaker 1: collecting off of that money and then they should easily

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Speaker 1: be able to trace that as well. So whatever it's

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Speaker 1: it is interesting. Are you gonna watch it?

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Speaker 2: I don't know, because I watched a couple of people

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Speaker 2: reviewing it that said it was like really hard to

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Speaker 2: get through because it was just a lot of nonsense interviews.

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Speaker 2: Because at first I was really interested. But it's three

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Speaker 2: hours long, it's three one hour long episodes. I so,

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Speaker 2: how did this get on Apple?

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Speaker 1: If it's on Apple TV, can this just be like

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Speaker 1: some guy who made this low budget or someone actually

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Speaker 1: had to put money into this, because I thought that

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Speaker 1: the trailer was a little like weird. It just looks

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Speaker 1: like someone made it in their basement or something.

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Speaker 2: He could have made it beforehand, and then after it

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Speaker 2: was made, sold it to Apple to distribute. They don't

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Speaker 2: always have to be involved in the beginning. But I

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Speaker 2: guess my final thoughts are, let's say it is Frank

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Speaker 2: person in Syracuse really is Jim Mars and he did

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Speaker 2: fake his death. Just leave him alone. He clearly did

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Speaker 2: it for a reason and he wanted to start over.

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Speaker 2: Just let him be and let him live the rest

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Speaker 2: of his life. He's old.

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Speaker 1: Just tell him to do one more concert like or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't All right, let's talk about these astronauts because

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Speaker 1: this is super interesting.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god. So last summer we reported that these

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Speaker 2: two astronauts had gone up on this Boeing Starliner capsule.

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Speaker 2: Their trip was only supposed to be eight days, but

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Speaker 2: of course the capsule had technical difficulties, so NASA decided

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Speaker 2: they were going to hold them at the International Space

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Speaker 2: Station and send the capsule back empty, just so there

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Speaker 2: wasn't any risk of their life. But it has taken

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Speaker 2: nine months to get them home. But finally on Tuesday night,

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Speaker 2: after SpaceX went up, they retrieved them and they're back

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Speaker 2: on Earth.

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Speaker 1: This is so cool to me from a medical perspective

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Speaker 1: because a couple years ago we went to the Kennedy

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Speaker 1: Space Center NASA in Florida and we were able to

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Speaker 1: have this breakfast with an astronaut thing, and it was

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Speaker 1: so cool and we were able to ask them questions

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Speaker 1: and I just I guess I never really thought about

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Speaker 1: it up until then, about what happens to you when

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Speaker 1: you go up in space. But you have to think

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Speaker 1: about it that there's no gravity, so you're you know,

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Speaker 1: the human body is made and designed to live on

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Speaker 1: Earth and with our environment. So there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: different things that happen with these people when they come

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Speaker 1: back to Earth because they think about this, like if

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Speaker 1: you're floating for a while, you're just you're not staying

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Speaker 1: on the ground. You almost lose your ability to walk,

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Speaker 1: Your muscles waste away your bone density lessons because you're

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Speaker 1: not using them to keep yourself on the ground and

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Speaker 1: to keep yourself upright. And so when these people come back,

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Speaker 1: even if you're only there for a few weeks, when

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Speaker 1: you come back, you have to go through this whole

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Speaker 1: intensive physical therapy thing to get back to walking normal,

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Speaker 1: which is why they were taking them out on stretchers essentially,

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Speaker 1: because those people would fall right to the ground. And

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Speaker 1: it's crazy to think that you're in your sixties or

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Speaker 1: something and you would have to relearn how to walk again.

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Speaker 1: But it's the same thing. Think about when you ride

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Speaker 1: a bike. It's very simple. If you know how to

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Speaker 1: ride a bike, you just get on it. But before

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Speaker 1: you know how to ride a bike, it's just like

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Speaker 1: you have to learn how to use your muscles in

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Speaker 1: a certain way to keep the bike up right in

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Speaker 1: order from falling down. And it's kind of just like

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Speaker 1: what babies have to do when they start walking. So

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Speaker 1: you have to do that again as an astronaut, which

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Speaker 1: is it's kind of cool to think about that. That's

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Speaker 1: they're dealing with all these medical issues on top of god,

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Speaker 1: the psychological issues. I can't even imagine.

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Speaker 2: No, I mean, it must have been really terrified. I

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Speaker 2: feel like in some regard they have to be prepared

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Speaker 2: that their trip is not going to be the length

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Speaker 2: it's intended to be, and there could be issues, of course,

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Speaker 2: but going from eight days to nine months is extremely long. So,

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Speaker 2: like you're saying, now, they have to enter this forty

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Speaker 2: five day rehab program to get basically learn how to

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Speaker 2: walk again and just make sure they're okay to just

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Speaker 2: going back to being normal people. It's nuts.

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Speaker 1: There's also so many other things that happen to the body.

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Speaker 1: There could be like cardiovascular effects. And it's another interesting

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Speaker 1: thing too, is with gravity. So when you're standing on

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Speaker 1: the ground, your fluid is in your body is equally

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Speaker 1: distributed from your head to your toes, but when you

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Speaker 1: have no gravity, it all kind of goes up towards

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Speaker 1: your head. So most astronauts that go up into space

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Speaker 1: have problems with this and they get what's called spaceflight

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Speaker 1: associated neuroocular syndrome, which is they get a lot of

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Speaker 1: swelling around their eyes, but they can get changes in

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Speaker 1: the pressure in their head. I imagine they get terrible headaches,

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Speaker 1: they're not able to see well. So that's also something

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Speaker 1: that you know as soon as you come back to Earth,

429
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Speaker 1: it's like all the fluid goes back down, so then

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Speaker 1: the people might experience dizziness. And it's just like a

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Speaker 1: wild thing to even think about that and experience because

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Speaker 1: there's not many humans in the world that experience these

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Speaker 1: medical symptoms.

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Speaker 2: No, it is really cool. And did you see when

435
00:22:41,119 --> 00:22:43,479
Speaker 2: their capsule landed in the ocean there is like all

436
00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: these dolphins surrounding it checking it out.

437
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,760
Speaker 1: Listen that video like looks.

438
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,240
Speaker 2: Fake to me? Did you see it?

439
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: Like they No, you need to watch it because you're

440
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:59,760
Speaker 1: just like, this is like it has to be AI

441
00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: enhanced or something like it just doesn't even look real.

442
00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: And maybe it's just because the situation is just unusual,

443
00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: but you're looking at it and you're like, what's happening

444
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 1: here right now?

445
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:12,560
Speaker 2: Like maybe you're just a space truther.

446
00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 1: So I don't realize I'm becoming a space truther, honestly,

447
00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 1: Like the more and more I think about it, and

448
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: I started really thinking about it when I really did

449
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 1: a deep dive into the chap Equittic situation. That was

450
00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 1: a couple years ago. When I went there and I

451
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: was like so intrigued with the Ted Kennedy chap Equittic thing.

452
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,640
Speaker 1: I wrote up a celebrity death dissection or a well,

453
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,480
Speaker 1: I guess it would be considered a high profile death

454
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 1: disseection in the Gross Room about it and that that

455
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 1: happened like a day or two before they announced the

456
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 1: man walked on the moon and he was supposed to

457
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,439
Speaker 1: run for president. It's just like the whole thing was

458
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 1: so weird. And then I'm thinking, like, this is just

459
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 1: the videos are really terrible and you look at it

460
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh god, this is kind of doesn't

461
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,439
Speaker 1: look like what they told this it was.

462
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 2: There's a really funny movie that came out last year

463
00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,919
Speaker 2: called fly Me to the Moon with Scarlett Johansson and

464
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 2: Channing Tatum and they are making like the movie set

465
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: for the moon landing, and it's just like this whole

466
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,160
Speaker 2: like does it look exactly like the moon landing? Like, yeah,

467
00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: you should watch it because it's pretty funny about like

468
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 2: the jokes about it and up being top secret evidence,

469
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,400
Speaker 2: and yeah, you should definitely watch it. It's pretty Just.

470
00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:26,200
Speaker 1: Watch the video of this if it's the like, I've

471
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: just seen it a couple of times and it's just

472
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:30,640
Speaker 1: like it's just bizarre.

473
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 2: This episode is brought to you by the Gross Room. Guys.

474
00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: The Gross Room is on sale for only twenty dollars

475
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: for the whole entire year, So that's for three hundred

476
00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,400
Speaker 1: and sixty five days of what I call gross gross

477
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 1: pathology means looking at pathology with the naked eye, but

478
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:57,159
Speaker 1: gross also implies that it is definitely a little gory,

479
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: way too gory for Instagram for sure. We have so

480
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,199
Speaker 1: many cases. I am actually thinking that we might do

481
00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,760
Speaker 1: a celebrity death disseection on Jim Morrison at this point

482
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: because we need to like do a deeper dive into

483
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: that story. And it's odd that we haven't covered that yet,

484
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 1: but I think that that might be a good story

485
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,479
Speaker 1: to do. But this week we're starting we were working

486
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 1: on a two part Ruby Frank one which is really

487
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: really interesting. Next week we are going to be working

488
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 1: on a case of mistaken identity, unless, of course, I

489
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: tell you guys all the time, there's any breaking celebrity desks,

490
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,919
Speaker 1: then we'll definitely do that first. We have just so

491
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:37,960
Speaker 1: many different cases. We have the Karen Reid trial with

492
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: John O'Keeffe and we're going to be talking about that

493
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: in our next story. Actually, So that's a really interesting

494
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: two part to section that you guys might want to

495
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:48,680
Speaker 1: read Yeah, head over to the growth room dot com

496
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: now to sign up. Okay, So, speaking of the John

497
00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: O'Keeffe and Karen Reid situation, last night, word came out

498
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: that the trooper that was associated with this case has

499
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 1: finally been let go.

500
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: Well, he was the lead investigator, so like he was

501
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 2: more than just a cop involved in the sidelines. He

502
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 2: was a major player.

503
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: And I just don't understand, like this whatever happened, accident, murder,

504
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: whatever you want to call it, happened in January of

505
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,440
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, and it took almost three whole years

506
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 1: to finally let this guy go.

507
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I don't even think so this trooper

508
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 2: Michael Proctor. Oh my god. So there. I don't know

509
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 2: if historically you know this, but in the Salem witch

510
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 2: trials there was a person killed named John Proctor, and

511
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 2: then with the victim's name, well I'm wondering if they

512
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 2: are related since it's in the same area, but with

513
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 2: the victim's name being John O'Keeffe and his name being

514
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 2: Michael Proctor, Like, my brain just has a really hard

515
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,879
Speaker 2: time with this. But anyway, after Karen Reid's mistrial a

516
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 2: couple of months ago, trooper Michael Proctor had been suspended

517
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: without pay while they did an investigation because during her

518
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,760
Speaker 2: trial all these really inappropriate text messages popped up where

519
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 2: he was calling her a whack job. He said he

520
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 2: hoped she killed herself. There was even, you know, this

521
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: part where he said he was looking through her phone

522
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: and he hadn't come across any nude shit. So obviously

523
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: that's concerning when it's a police officer and made investigating

524
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: a possible homicide. But I don't know, it seems like

525
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: he had all this other misconduct and the Massachusetts State

526
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: Police decided to suspend him and do an investigation, and

527
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,160
Speaker 2: after their investigation, they decided to officially fire him.

528
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: So isn't it interesting that a couple weeks ago the

529
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,560
Speaker 1: federal government, who was also investigating this investigation, had said

530
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,440
Speaker 1: that they closed their investigation, and now this comes out

531
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: a couple weeks later. Do you think that their investigation

532
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: had anything to do with his final determination that they

533
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 1: were going to get rid of him.

534
00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I would say so, because I think

535
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,840
Speaker 2: that they do these investigations and then they present all

536
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: their findings to a board and it just takes a

537
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,880
Speaker 2: couple of weeks to go over everything and make a determination.

538
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 2: So they're saying, you know, well, another major problem he

539
00:28:07,600 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 2: had was that he didn't disclose his connection to people

540
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 2: involved in this case, which obviously is a major conflict

541
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 2: of interest. So I think with all these other things combined,

542
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: they're just like.

543
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: Which is important to note, because he was apparently friends

544
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,159
Speaker 1: with the people where this guy's body was found on

545
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: the lawn, if you remember, and we just thought it

546
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: was weird in general that you find a dead body

547
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: on someone's lawn and you don't even go into the

548
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: house and search it to see what was happening. Like

549
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: that to me was one of the biggest screw ups

550
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: in the case. But of course you wouldn't search it

551
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: because you're friends with the people, right. This is why,

552
00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 1: this is why there's questions with these cases because of

553
00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 1: the way they're handled improperly.

554
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 2: So this is what the trialdboard is saying. They found

555
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 2: him guilty of violating four department policies, which included sending

556
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:02,240
Speaker 2: the inappropriate text messages about Karen Reid, sharing sensitive information

557
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: about her case with people outside law enforcement, creating an

558
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 2: image of being biased against her, and then drinking while

559
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: on duty. And connection to an unrelated cold case.

560
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is exactly what she's being accused. All of

561
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: his drinking and driving. And you know that whole culture

562
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: of that whole group of friends is just like that, right.

563
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say that they all seemed like

564
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: they had issues with drinking. I mean, they definitely shouldn't

565
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: have been She one hundred percent, regardless of what you think,

566
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: should not have been drinking and driving. Like I feel like,

567
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 2: I mean, nobody should be no, but I feel like

568
00:29:35,040 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 2: a lot in this case. This case is extremely controversial

569
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 2: because you're like teamed police department or team Karen Reid.

570
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of Karen Reid supporters are

571
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:49,040
Speaker 2: also not acknowledging that she was still doing something bad.

572
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean she murdered him, but she still shouldn't

573
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,680
Speaker 2: have been drinking and driving. Now it's important to acknowledge.

574
00:29:56,320 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 1: So I got I got a direct message from one

575
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: of our listeners a few days ago, and she sends

576
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: me a link to this next case we're going to

577
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 1: talk about, and said that she was friends with these people.

578
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 2: So, oh my god.

579
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: And I wrote her back and I was like, wait,

580
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: you like actually know these people and she's like, yeah.

581
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: All right. So this guy at Milwaukee calls the cops

582
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:22,040
Speaker 2: and says his girlfriend's dead, and when they get there,

583
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 2: she's obviously been dead for a while, and this scene

584
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 2: has clearly been staged. So he admitted that he found

585
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: her twenty days earlier, but said because he's from another country,

586
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: he didn't know the laws here about reporting a dead body.

587
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: I love that the investigators because he's from Turkey. So

588
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: the investigators were like, well, how would you report this

589
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: in Turkey if you live there, Like it's like, come on,

590
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: that's the biggest bullshit answer, Like Turkey has accountability for

591
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: you killing people as well, Like you can't just you know, like,

592
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: good try though, dude.

593
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, but he said he went this is what he

594
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 2: is saying. He said he went out to go run

595
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: an errand for an hour, and when he came back,

596
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 2: the girlfriend was just covered in blood. He didn't know

597
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 2: what happened, and then he fainted and slept next to

598
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 2: her dead body for twenty days because he didn't know

599
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,800
Speaker 2: what to do, and at one point he considered taking

600
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:12,840
Speaker 2: his life, so he tried to do that with a

601
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:15,520
Speaker 2: nail gun. They did find a nail in his head.

602
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's true that all they actually found the

603
00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: nail in his head that was going into his brain

604
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: at the hospital, they had to remove it. So this

605
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,800
Speaker 1: is an interesting side note talking about the cases that

606
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: we have in the gross room. If you just go

607
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,719
Speaker 1: in there and search nail gun, you're going to see

608
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,440
Speaker 1: many cases where people not only intentionally put a nail

609
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: gun in their head to try to kill themselves, but

610
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: also accidental cases. And you wouldn't believe how many times

611
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 1: it actually happens when people go to the hospital and

612
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: have to get a nail removed out of their head.

613
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,360
Speaker 1: But the imaging is just crazy that you could see

614
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: it going right through the person's brain. So in this case,

615
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: it was obviously like this is what you're going to do.

616
00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: You find this person there and twenty days dead is

617
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:09,800
Speaker 1: really disgusting. So she was probably really decomposed. And on

618
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,160
Speaker 1: top of that, you do the autops scene, it's just like, oh, well,

619
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: how did she die exactly because we've found twelve knife

620
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,560
Speaker 1: wounds sharp force wounds in her body that severed multiple organs,

621
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: and her cause of death was a massive bleed.

622
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,320
Speaker 2: Like, what's your story now, dude, Well, he still denied

623
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: killing her. But he admitted he did move her body,

624
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 2: and they're alleging that he only finally called about it

625
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:36,840
Speaker 2: because the landlord was going to be coming into the

626
00:32:36,880 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 2: apartment to inspect it because they were getting evicted.

627
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: So when they did the investigation, of course they were

628
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: able to find So they found surveillance of him going

629
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: to a store and buying lots of cleaning supplies. There

630
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: was evidence that the scene was there was a lot

631
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: of blood there, and there was evidence that someone tried

632
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: to clean it up. Then they found surveillance footage of

633
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: him buying an algun, which was the day after she

634
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: had died. So, yeah, you're cook, dude, And I can't

635
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 1: believe that someone that listens to our show knows these people. No,

636
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:15,719
Speaker 1: I really just like, could you imagine just knowing a couple,

637
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 1: even knowing that their relationship may be tumultuous or whatever,

638
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: and just hearing this, especially hearing someone that you know

639
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 1: gets killed as bad, but knowing that he was like

640
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 1: laying along her dead body for twenty days, And I

641
00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: just think like with a stabbing death, especially all that

642
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 1: blood would just smell so terrible after twenty days and

643
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: just be like matted into the carpet. I just it's

644
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: just so, it's just so weird.

645
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: Right, No, it's just very disturbing.

646
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,800
Speaker 1: Okay, So I was reading this deer Abby. I love

647
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: the deer Abby's even though they're not technically news stories,

648
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: but they are because they were.

649
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 2: In the news this week.

650
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: But this woman was saying that she had a terminal

651
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: illness and she didn't know what to do about it.

652
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: Well, not that well, she didn't know what to do

653
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 2: about it, but she was also asking for advice because

654
00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,719
Speaker 2: she doesn't want to tell her family about it. So

655
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 2: how do you feel about that? Well, I don't know.

656
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: I think that her reasoning is just she said since

657
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: she was thirteen she was dealing with suicidal thoughts and

658
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,880
Speaker 1: depression and self harm. And it's weird how it was

659
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: mentioned that she said that she's dealing with an illness

660
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: that can kill her, Like what does that even mean exactly?

661
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: Like is it a terminal illness or is it so?

662
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 2: Or is she just suicidal?

663
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: I don't know. But she doesn't want to tell her child,

664
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: her children and kids, and I don't know. I think

665
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: that most people, like from a mom's perspective, I feel

666
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,360
Speaker 1: like if I told my kids, right, now that I

667
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,400
Speaker 1: was going to be dying next year. It would like

668
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 1: ruin their life for the next year, but right, and

669
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: I just wouldn't want to put that on them. But

670
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: also the best I guess you would say of knowing

671
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:04,919
Speaker 1: that you're going to die is that, like you can

672
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: tell your family and talk to your family every single

673
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 1: day till that time about everything with your life and

674
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: just like things that a lot of people don't get

675
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 1: when one of their loved ones just drops dead. So

676
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: I understand, like you don't want to upset your husband

677
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: and child, but your your husband and children also love you,

678
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: and they would probably want to support you and help you,

679
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: Like before you die, be like be happy in your life.

680
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: So when you finally do shut your eyes for the

681
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: last time, like you know what I mean, that you

682
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:42,920
Speaker 1: feel like you were loved and you weren't dealing with

683
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: all that by yourself.

684
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: Well, I just think there's elements to consider with this case.

685
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,040
Speaker 2: She said she had something that could kill her, Like

686
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,359
Speaker 2: I think having a definitive terminal illness is something that's

687
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 2: a little different because if you're dealing with something that

688
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 2: you know you're gonna die from, I don't know, I

689
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: struggle with it. I understand, but in the same breath,

690
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 2: I think it's a little selfish because you're not giving

691
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 2: your family the time to process your loss, even though

692
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: it is your illness and you should deal with it

693
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: however you see fit, but you don't want them thinking

694
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 2: that you were suffering and they weren't doing enough to help,

695
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 2: and then they have to live with that guilt the

696
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 2: rest of their life. I just think it's really interesting, though.

697
00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 2: I think Abby had said you should tell them. I do.

698
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: I do understand where she's coming from, though.

699
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 2: I understand not telling the kids right away, because, like

700
00:36:37,640 --> 00:36:40,279
Speaker 2: you said, you don't want to ruin their life. But

701
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:43,480
Speaker 2: the husband, I feel like you should definitely be telling

702
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: because also if you are getting sick like the like

703
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 2: Abby said, he's going to notice that you are changing

704
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 2: and visibly dying well, And.

705
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: The same could be said about kids. A lot of

706
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: times you think that, like, oh, kids, you know that's

707
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:00,279
Speaker 1: I even say that with you sometimes because sometimes you'll

708
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: be talking about an adult matter and one of the

709
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: kids will say like, what did you mean, and you're

710
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,080
Speaker 1: just quick to say like, oh, nothing, don't worry about it,

711
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,359
Speaker 1: and I'm like, no, they can understand if you talk

712
00:37:09,400 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: to them in a certain way. They could understand a

713
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 1: lot more than we think they could understand, and they

714
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 1: should be privy to some conversations as well as far

715
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:20,920
Speaker 1: as that likes.

716
00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 2: Kids are very very.

717
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: Intuitive to know when something's off in the house, whether

718
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, and like, I think it's

719
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: respectful to them to talk to them about it, you know.

720
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,000
Speaker 2: And I don't think you necessarily have to give them

721
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 2: every detail and be like I'm dying, but you could

722
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 2: prepare them for it by being like, I'm sick. Yeah,

723
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 2: you know, you don't have to be like I might

724
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 2: drop dead tomorrow, so get used to your time with me.

725
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 2: But I don't know. I definitely think it's important to

726
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 2: confide in family because also why would you want to

727
00:37:53,239 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 2: suffer through something like that alone.

728
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:55,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure.

729
00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: There's a show called The Big Sea that came out

730
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:01,879
Speaker 2: probably if fifteen years ago with Laura Lennie, and it's

731
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: the same concept. I mean, it's hard.

732
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: It's hard to say because you and I have never

733
00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,480
Speaker 1: been in that situation, and until then it's like you

734
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:12,719
Speaker 1: just don't. It's the same thing with a lot of

735
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:14,759
Speaker 1: these stories that we talk about. It's just like you

736
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: just don't really know like how you would react until

737
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: you were in that particular situation.

738
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. All right, let's move on to questions

739
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 2: of the Day. Every Friday at that at mother nos

740
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:27,440
Speaker 2: Death Instagram account, you guys get head to our story

741
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 2: and ask us whatever question you want. First, have you

742
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 2: done an autopsy on someone with more than the normal

743
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:34,760
Speaker 2: amount of organs?

744
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 1: Yeah?

745
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:36,080
Speaker 2: I have.

746
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: In any case when you do, like somebody an autopsy

747
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: on somebody that has a kidney transplant, It's it's a

748
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 1: very interesting fact that most people don't know that when

749
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:49,760
Speaker 1: you get a kidney transplant, they leave the old kidney

750
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 1: in there. So I've done autopsies on people with three

751
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,560
Speaker 1: and four kidneys. Also, you could get accessory organs, like

752
00:38:56,560 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 1: an accessory spleen. Sometimes you could get multiple of those,

753
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 1: So in cases like that yet, for sure, I've had

754
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: that happen.

755
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 2: Okay too. What motivated you to start educating the public

756
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,280
Speaker 2: with your website and YouTube?

757
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 1: I guess it first started with doing autopsies at the hospital,

758
00:39:14,320 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: and we had this conference every week which was called

759
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: the Gross Conference, where we would present organs from autopsy

760
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: and surgical pathology to medical residents. Medical students, surgeons attending physicians.

761
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:30,399
Speaker 1: They would come down to the Morgan we would talk

762
00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: about all of the interesting cases for the week, which

763
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: was super cool because not only were we helping and

764
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 1: educating them about the patients they were actually taking care of,

765
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 1: but we were also really able to explain what we

766
00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:48,759
Speaker 1: were looking at from our perspective, which is always helpful

767
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,839
Speaker 1: for doctors to just be very integrated in how we

768
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: diagnose things. And that conference stopped happening, and that was

769
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: like a huge missing piece of my life because I

770
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,279
Speaker 1: really enjoyed doing that. So then I decided that I

771
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: was going to make a blog and just start writing

772
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: about the interesting cases that I was seeing. But it

773
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 1: was just like I was just doing it, and I

774
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 1: was writing every single day, like all this stuff because

775
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 1: Maria was older at that point and she didn't need

776
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:22,839
Speaker 1: like mom attention as much as like an eight year old.

777
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: She knew when to go take a shower and stuff

778
00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: like I didn't have to be like, you know what

779
00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, she was kind of self functioning as

780
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: a teenager at that point. So I had time on

781
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: my hands, and I was done college at that point,

782
00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:37,239
Speaker 1: so I would come home and write for a couple

783
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:41,400
Speaker 1: hours and it was really it was really awesome, but

784
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,480
Speaker 1: like no, I just would think, like, how is anybody

785
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: going to see my blog? And then my husband had

786
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,279
Speaker 1: suggested to me, I guess he was my boyfriend at

787
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: the time, and he had suggested to me, like, hey,

788
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: why don't you take these pictures and then just write

789
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: these things for Instagram, but just make them shorter like

790
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: Instagram post. And then Maria was you know, like I said,

791
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: she was a teenager, she was eighteen at the time,

792
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,959
Speaker 1: and she helped me set up the Instagram account because

793
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 1: I didn't, like, I'm a boomer, right, so I don't

794
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: know how to I don't know how to use social media.

795
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: And it kind of just went from there, like it

796
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,839
Speaker 1: picked up right away, like very fast after being on there.

797
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: And then I just kept doing the same thing that

798
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: I had been doing for years, just in a shorter format.

799
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 2: All right, last, what's your best parenting advice?

800
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 1: I guess just I guess I would say the best

801
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: thing is just to have like an open relationship with

802
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 1: your kids so they don't feel like they have to

803
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: like hide stuff from you. I don't know, like what

804
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: I mean, what do you think I think that was

805
00:41:51,160 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 1: good with Like whenever Maria was having some kind of

806
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,880
Speaker 1: like difficult situations that she would always like come to

807
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:01,040
Speaker 1: me and just tell me about it, because I guess

808
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,560
Speaker 1: the biggest things for kids to understand is like you

809
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:05,799
Speaker 1: might be having a hard time or you might be

810
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 1: in trouble, but you might upset me too, but like ultimately,

811
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:15,040
Speaker 1: like I'll always love you, so like I could help

812
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,719
Speaker 1: you more than anybody else could help you, So just

813
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: don't be afraid to tell me something like.

814
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 2: I think you had a really good balance with me,

815
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 2: in particular with our situation of being like a good

816
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: mixture of my friend and my mom, because sometimes it

817
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,560
Speaker 2: goes one way or the other. You know, where people

818
00:42:34,600 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 2: are like all parent and they have like no casual

819
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 2: relationship with their kid where they don't feel comfortable going

820
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 2: to them, or you have the parents that are one

821
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:45,960
Speaker 2: hundred percent your friend, and then your kids are like

822
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 2: getting into trouble because you're just letting them do whatever

823
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 2: they want. But I think you figured out a really

824
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: good balance that and I did always feel comfortable telling

825
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: you everything. I mean, I still have like diarrhea of

826
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: the mouth when I talk to you about yeah exactly,

827
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 2: but it's it's it's.

828
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:04,320
Speaker 1: Better to be that way than to be hidden because then,

829
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 1: I mean, now you're older, but with kids, little kids

830
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 1: and teenagers especially, like it's it's like the most crucial

831
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 1: thing ever, because that's when they can really get into

832
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,960
Speaker 1: trouble with major things that will affect the rest of

833
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:17,520
Speaker 1: their life.

834
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

835
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I want my kids to feel comfortable calling

836
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: me and saying, I'm at a party and people started

837
00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,279
Speaker 1: doing things here that I'm not comfortable with and I

838
00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:32,799
Speaker 1: want to come home, you know, like things like that,

839
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,040
Speaker 1: because normally a parent might freak out about that and

840
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: just be like, why are you hanging out with people

841
00:43:38,840 --> 00:43:40,880
Speaker 1: that do drugs and like, and you're just like, no,

842
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: I want you to call me at three in the

843
00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: morning and I will call whatever, And like, honestly, my

844
00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: kids don't want to ever leave the house, So I

845
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 1: don't even know if that's ever going to be a situation,

846
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 1: but I you know, you never know, and I just

847
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: I always want that to be a thing that they

848
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: feel like they could come to me whenever they're in trouble.

849
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 2: Well, thank god I succeeded at being a good big

850
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 2: sister and got them hooked on the sims, Yeah, exactly,

851
00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 2: they'll never go out, all right. Well, thank you guys

852
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 2: so much. Please leave us a five star written review

853
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 2: on Apple and if you have a story for us,

854
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:20,719
Speaker 2: please submit it to stories at Mothernosdeath dot com or

855
00:44:20,760 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 2: send us a message on Instagram say yeah, thank.

856
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: You for listening to Mother Nos Death. As a reminder,

857
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: my training is as a pathologists assistant. I have a

858
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 1: master's level education and specialize in anatomy and pathology education.

859
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 1: I am not a doctor and I have not diagnosed

860
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:45,360
Speaker 1: or treated anyone dead or alive without the assistance of

861
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 1: a licensed medical doctor. This show, my website, and social

862
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:54,200
Speaker 1: media accounts are designed to educate and inform people based

863
00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 1: on my experience working in pathology, so they can make

864
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: healthier decisions regarding their life and well being. Always remember

865
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: that science is changing every day and the opinions expressed

866
00:45:06,200 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 1: in this episode are based on my knowledge of those

867
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 1: subjects at the time of publication. If you are having

868
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: a medical problem, have a medical question, or having a

869
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 1: medical emergency, please contact your physician or visit an urgent

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00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,200
Speaker 1: care center, emergency room.

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00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: Or hospital.

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Speaker 1: Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube,

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Speaker 1: or anywhere you get podcasts.

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Speaker 2: Thanks