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Speaker 1: At least. He's the Drive with Dale Lolly and Matt

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Speaker 1: Williamson on Home of the Black and Gold Steelers Nation Radio. Ye,

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Speaker 1: welcome back to the Drive. I'm Dale Lolly here with

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Speaker 1: Matt Williamson. We're pleased at this time to be joined

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Speaker 1: by Bob Labriola, who typically joins us on Wednesdays during

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Speaker 1: the season. The season is now over. Special guest appearance,

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Speaker 1: Special guest, Special guest appearance by Bob and Bob. Does

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Speaker 1: it feel like the season is now over? Uh? For

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Speaker 1: you were now officially into the off season. You guys

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Speaker 1: tricked me. I thought there was a game this week. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, I mean, um, well, the Super bowls over.

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Speaker 1: So it's the off season, you know for everybody now,

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Speaker 1: Um it it ended quickly and more quickly and in

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Speaker 1: an unexpected way, at least for me. Um. But and

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Speaker 1: and this was an offseason that I'll just speak for myself,

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Speaker 1: I was personally looking forward to because you know, typically, um,

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Speaker 1: the off season is not the time to be a

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Speaker 1: Steelers fan, because, um, the team is very rarely you know,

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Speaker 1: active to the degree that generates excitement for the fans,

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Speaker 1: and free agency the draft pick is usually not very

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Speaker 1: high unless you know, there's Devin Bush on the board

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Speaker 1: and a trade is made. So but I mean, this

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Speaker 1: is even worse than any of that I can remember

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Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, the double barrel whammy of

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Speaker 1: the salary cap going down, which you know that that

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Speaker 1: has never happened. I cannot two thousand eleven, it actually

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Speaker 1: went down about about three million dollars, okay, because that

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Speaker 1: was that was the year they signed, yeah, the new CBA,

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Speaker 1: and they had to lock out and yeah. So but

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Speaker 1: I mean, certainly the combination of nineteen unrestricted free agents

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Speaker 1: and the salary kept going down. I just you know,

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Speaker 1: I I'm not looking forward to this. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a blood bath contractually speaking, I think,

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Speaker 1: and you know, just getting down to the cap is

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Speaker 1: one thing, but then you know, who do you got

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Speaker 1: left to play? I mean, that's that's um. You know

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Speaker 1: a lot of these uh speculations about well if they

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Speaker 1: cut this guy, this guy and this guy, you know

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Speaker 1: they can get under the cap. Yeah, But like one

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Speaker 1: one I got was, well, if they cut Hayden Nelson

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Speaker 1: and Vince Williams, how much money can they save on

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Speaker 1: the cap? And I looked it up and told the guy,

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Speaker 1: and then I said, but who plays cornerback then? You know,

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Speaker 1: out there on defense, and you only have so many

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Speaker 1: draft picks, you know, and you know, and you're gonna

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Speaker 1: put you know those guys, you know, fourth round draft

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Speaker 1: picks on the field, you know, September, September whatever it is,

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Speaker 1: opening day. So um, yeah, this is taken it day

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Speaker 1: by day here this offseason. It hasn't I don't think

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Speaker 1: the worst hasn't hit yet and may not until March

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Speaker 1: seventeen when everybody has to be in compliance. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is the one that I've been looking forward to. Well,

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Speaker 1: there's some things that they can do, and um one

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Speaker 1: of those would be two work out some kind of

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Speaker 1: contract extension with Ben Roethlisberg. I know a lot of people,

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Speaker 1: a lot of fans when I've written about this, have

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Speaker 1: you can't You can't extant and Ben, well, if you

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Speaker 1: don't want him on your on your on your cap

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Speaker 1: at forty one million dollars, which they don't, but you

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Speaker 1: do want him back, Um, you have to get that

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Speaker 1: number lower. And if you simply release him, it's still

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Speaker 1: cost you over twenty two million dollars against your cap.

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Speaker 1: So if you can get that number down to that

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Speaker 1: in the twenty eight million dollar range by extending him

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Speaker 1: for a year or two. Why wouldn't you do that

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Speaker 1: because it's okay, it's only going to cost you an

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Speaker 1: extra an additional six million dollars realistically. Um, and if

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Speaker 1: you if you released Roethlisberger, you'd still have to go

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Speaker 1: get another quarterback to compete with with with Mason Rudolph,

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Speaker 1: at least back him up a guy who's who's got

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Speaker 1: some NFL experience, because you're not going to go into

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Speaker 1: next season with Mason Rudolph and Dwayne Haskins is the

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Speaker 1: only quarterbacks on your roster? Well yeah, And I mean

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Speaker 1: I think the one thing that you know people should

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Speaker 1: understand is, you know, signing Bend to a contract extension

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Speaker 1: doesn't automatically mean he's playing beyond either. So I mean

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Speaker 1: there's that that I think is you know, something that

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Speaker 1: needs to be understood. Um. But you know, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that it's necessarily a done deal either that UM,

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Speaker 1: you know that's gonna work out. I mean, I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying it won't, Um, but I don't know that. You

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Speaker 1: know the way that Art Rooney the second when he

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Speaker 1: met us us media people. You were on that zoom.

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Speaker 1: I think Dale when he said, well we will leave

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Speaker 1: the door open or somewhere is to that effect. Um.

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Speaker 1: So that to me indicates that there's gonna you know,

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Speaker 1: there's some discussions that have to take place. Now, if

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Speaker 1: I'm Ben, you know, I don't know. You know, the

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Speaker 1: the number for one on his original contract extension that

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Speaker 1: he signed, I don't know what year was, um is

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Speaker 1: four million dollar base um base and then a fifteen

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Speaker 1: million dollar roster bonus paid payable on the third day

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Speaker 1: of the new league gear, which supposedly the new league

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Speaker 1: gear I think is March seventeen, so right around the

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Speaker 1: ninety he was he was supposed to get that roster bonus. Now,

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Speaker 1: all that other stuff that inflated his CAT number comes from,

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Speaker 1: you know, all the restructures that the Steelers did to

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Speaker 1: be able to have some flexibility in previous free agents,

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Speaker 1: including one last year, you know, after the you know,

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Speaker 1: after the contract he signed a contract before season, the

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Speaker 1: two year extensions. Okay, so you know, if I'm him,

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Speaker 1: and again I mean I'm not, and I don't know

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Speaker 1: what's in his head, but you know, I would think

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Speaker 1: if I'm Ryan Toldner let me say this his agent,

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Speaker 1: I'm starting at nineteen million. I mean that to me

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Speaker 1: is kind of like the mendoz aligne because that was

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Speaker 1: the original deal. Um, in terms of okay, that's the number,

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Speaker 1: not how we wanna masage this cap wise to get

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Speaker 1: the number lower. Okay, let's talk about it. But I

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Speaker 1: just don't know that Ben Roethlisberger is gonna say okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll play. I think the NFL minimum for a guy

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Speaker 1: of his experience next year is one million right around there. Yeah, okay, Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if the Steelers would ask him to

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Speaker 1: do that, and I don't know if i'm him that

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Speaker 1: I would accept that. Well, there's not there's not a

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Speaker 1: huge difference between that in the four million dollar base

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Speaker 1: that he was going to get. So I think if

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Speaker 1: you're three million dollar different, yeah, well, but in the

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Speaker 1: grand scheme of things, that's not so okay. So to me,

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Speaker 1: I look at it and say, okay, Ben, how about

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Speaker 1: you know, how about we come back and we you say,

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Speaker 1: we'll give you that nineteen million dollars, you waive the

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Speaker 1: roster you know, the roster bonus, and we'll turn that

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Speaker 1: into signing bonus on in the extension, and you know,

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Speaker 1: we we we cut your salary down to that. You know,

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Speaker 1: even if you don't cut the salary, you keep the

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Speaker 1: salary of four million dollars, you've still just cut a

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Speaker 1: big chunk of that off, you know, that that cap

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Speaker 1: number off by by just removing that, and you have

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Speaker 1: the space next year. Yeah, and you have the space

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Speaker 1: next year to do it. Okay, But but that's what

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Speaker 1: I mean. I'm what I'm saying. You know, Ben has

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Speaker 1: said what I make next year doesn't matter. Well, okay,

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Speaker 1: but it kind of does, and it will, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean I mean. And I'm not calling him

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Speaker 1: a liar or anything, but you know, I don't think that.

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Speaker 1: You know, people take that too literally, you know and say, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: if he signs for the veteran minimum, how much money

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Speaker 1: can you save on the cap. Well, I don't think

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Speaker 1: you do that to a guy like him, who has

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Speaker 1: done what he has done for the franchise. Um. You know, again,

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Speaker 1: I actually figured it out if they if they did

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Speaker 1: it the way that I just explained, they turned that

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Speaker 1: fifteen million dollar roster bonus into signing bonus, cut his

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Speaker 1: number down to the minimum. That's the Drew that's what

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Speaker 1: Drew Brees did. Knowing that he's not going to play

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Speaker 1: beyond this next season, he still then gets his money

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Speaker 1: that he would have gotten anyways. He just gets it

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Speaker 1: one lump sum at the beginning of the year and

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Speaker 1: he gets that million dollar salary and it knocks his

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Speaker 1: number down from forty one million down to I think

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Speaker 1: twenty seven and change. Okay, I mean that's I'm not um,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a cap guy. So I will just uh

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Speaker 1: take you at your word that you know, all that

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Speaker 1: works out and it's legal and everything. Uh but yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: but that's not um take you know, playing for the

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Speaker 1: minimum either. No, it's not. He's still getting He's still

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Speaker 1: getting his money, which that's the thing. Yeah, And that's

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Speaker 1: the same way those restructures work, right, you know, you

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Speaker 1: still get your money and as you you just explain,

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Speaker 1: you get it more upfront instead of over the course

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Speaker 1: of the season, which in a lot of ways is

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Speaker 1: beneficial to the player. So you know, it's not like

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Speaker 1: the Steelers have been, you know, screwing him along the

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Speaker 1: right or that he is you know, um Francis of ASSISI.

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Speaker 1: By allowing his contract to be restructured, he's getting something

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Speaker 1: out of it as well. Yes, yeah, everybody. You know,

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Speaker 1: everybody's getting what kind of what they signed on for

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Speaker 1: in the beginning. And you know, again, I think that

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Speaker 1: that's kind of fair. Um, but I'm not convinced that

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Speaker 1: that necessarily is going to be you know, enough or

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Speaker 1: acceptable or you know, I just don't know, and I

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Speaker 1: don't have any um, you know, preconceived notions about who's

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Speaker 1: right or who's not. You know, these negotiations are just that,

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Speaker 1: that's what the word means. And so I'm not um assured.

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Speaker 1: I'm not certain that this is going to turn out

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Speaker 1: one way or the other. Uh So you know, to

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Speaker 1: me that and then I don't I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you agree with me, But I think that's the first

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Speaker 1: domino that has to fall. Oh, there's no doubt because

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Speaker 1: just on making the move that I just explained trims

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Speaker 1: about fourteen million dollars off the salary cap. Well, and

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Speaker 1: that's that's right around half of what they need to get.

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Speaker 1: So I mean that that's the first that's the biggest

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Speaker 1: move that they can make. It's also that you know,

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Speaker 1: if they don't do if if if they if they

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Speaker 1: can't come to an agreement, and he retires or he

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Speaker 1: you know whatever. Um, then they save nineteen million against

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Speaker 1: the cap um. Yes, that gets them more, but again

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Speaker 1: they don't have a quarterback then unless you're ready to

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Speaker 1: go with Mason Rudolph and then you still have you

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Speaker 1: still have to get. You still have to get a backup.

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Speaker 1: Unless you get they don't come for from you know. Again,

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Speaker 1: as as I was talking about earlier with respect of

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Speaker 1: the cornerbacks. Yeah, I mean this sounds good. You know,

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Speaker 1: if you're looking at it strictly, you know, using a calculator,

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Speaker 1: how much can we say? But then okay, a switch

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Speaker 1: from the calculator in the semetic to the depth chart

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Speaker 1: and who you're gonna put there? Um, look like right?

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Speaker 1: So uh again I I I don't know how it's

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Speaker 1: going to turn out, and um so, Bob, I don't

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Speaker 1: need to put words in your mouth. And just from

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Speaker 1: what you've been talking about since you've been on it

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Speaker 1: sounds like you think there's a non zero percent chance

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Speaker 1: that Ben isn't the opening day starter. You think that's

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Speaker 1: a possibility, still a non zero you mean higher than zero? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's a chance. Oh yeah, I mean I I think

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Speaker 1: that there's a chance that um, whatever you know they're

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Speaker 1: talking about. They can't come to a something that is

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Speaker 1: mutually agreeable. Um, you know, and it can go either way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Ben um might not be willing to go

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Speaker 1: as low as the Steelers want, or the Steelers might

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Speaker 1: want to go lower than Ben's willing to accept. And again,

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Speaker 1: I don't know you know any of this to be true, Um,

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Speaker 1: but it's just it's just I've been part of this

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Speaker 1: long enough watching these kinds of things happen enough times

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Speaker 1: that assuming that, um, this kind of negotiation is going

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Speaker 1: to be easy or quick, Uh, that's just not the

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Speaker 1: high percentage of play. And so you know, I'm very

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Speaker 1: much in weight and c mode with this. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: I don't you know, predicting what's going to happen is

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Speaker 1: a guess with three exclamation points after it, um, And

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Speaker 1: anybody's guess is as good as mine. The thing that

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Speaker 1: I don't understand, Bob, is is why there's a large

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Speaker 1: there are a large segment of Steeler fans and in

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Speaker 1: certain media members as well, who are quick to want

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Speaker 1: to push Roethlisberger out the door. They're kind of rooting

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Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, They're like, oh, they just need to

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Speaker 1: move on from him. They can't win with him. They

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Speaker 1: just went twelve games with him. You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: disagree with that. I also think that um, you know,

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Speaker 1: as I was talking about it earlier, Uh, if you

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Speaker 1: want excitement out of the offseason, that's how you get

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Speaker 1: if you're if you're in the talk show host business. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what you're rooting for. And you write and you

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Speaker 1: want something, um, you know, to to energize UM. You know,

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Speaker 1: your listeners or your readers or whatever. Bringing Ben back

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Speaker 1: is not that because that's status quo for seventeen years.

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Speaker 1: And so what's more exciting? What what stirs the pot more?

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Speaker 1: Um is making a change. And I also believe that

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Speaker 1: there is a segment of fans and media who are

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Speaker 1: enamored with the concept of blowing it up and rebuilding

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Speaker 1: instead of doing you know what, aren't Rooney the second

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Speaker 1: said that they were going to do is try and

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Speaker 1: put together the best team they can. I actually heard

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Speaker 1: one of those, one of the talking hedge in town.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't believe it almost ran off the road when

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Speaker 1: he said it. Said that the Steelers need to do

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Speaker 1: what the Detroit Lions did. They need to follow the

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Speaker 1: blueprint of the Lions and blow it up, said nobody

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Speaker 1: ever until that boy, because they got such a good

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Speaker 1: hold of how to win in this league. Um. You know, hey,

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Speaker 1: you know, because if you want to blow it up,

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's you know, fire some people too. I mean,

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Speaker 1: why why you got that right? Trade Cam Heyward? Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: so um but you know again, that's why I don't

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Speaker 1: believe that. You know, that's not the business model, and

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to change anytime soon, at

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Speaker 1: least until the name at the top of the UM.

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Speaker 1: I was almost said chart in a way, it is

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Speaker 1: whatever whatever that is that you know as the UM

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Speaker 1: ranks the people in the organization. The top of UT

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Speaker 1: is not named Rooney and so um. But again, you know,

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Speaker 1: as I said, this is not an exciting time for

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Speaker 1: Steelers fans because that's not their preferred way of doing business.

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Speaker 1: Labs you mentioned that, you know, there's a team free

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Speaker 1: agents and it's gonna be very difficult and to keep

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Speaker 1: the majority of those guys and Juju invited at the

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Speaker 1: top of the list in terms of expense, Who are

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Speaker 1: some guys you would target reasonably though, you know, are prioritized.

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Speaker 1: Once you have a little bit to spend to try

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Speaker 1: to keep around UM well. And and then this is

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Speaker 1: at different levels of um for the bus. Yeah, Zack

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Speaker 1: Banner um, Camp Sutton, um. And I don't know that

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Speaker 1: you can go much further than that. I had Tyson

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Speaker 1: and Lulu on that list as well, because I don't

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Speaker 1: think he'll break the bank. I would I would agree

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Speaker 1: with that too. And again, you know, I'm I'm mentioning

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Speaker 1: these guys with my eye on the depth chart instead

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Speaker 1: of on you know, the bottom line. Yeah, who st Yes,

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Speaker 1: he could, but I do think that and I don't

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Speaker 1: I have no way of knowing this for certain. And

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Speaker 1: this is my suspicion, um from someone who has been

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Speaker 1: anywhere near the office since March, that if if there

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Speaker 1: was a clear path, and I won't say guarantee him

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Speaker 1: a starting job, but if there was a clear path

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Speaker 1: to a starting spot, I e. Hayden and Steven Nelson

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Speaker 1: weren't on the roster anymore. I think that that would

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Speaker 1: help Cam Sutton, helped convince Cam Sutton that, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe he might want to stay, because I really do

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Speaker 1: believe that he's a little bit weary of the jack

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Speaker 1: of all trades. I agree. I mean you know, he

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Speaker 1: could look at the nickel the starting nickel job as

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Speaker 1: a starting spot and it really is. Or you look

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Speaker 1: at leaving after a year, but still they don't make

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Speaker 1: as much money. I'm going to be a starter. I'm

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Speaker 1: on the best of eleven. Yeah, and that's you know

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Speaker 1: because guys, um, the third contracts in the NFL are rare,

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Speaker 1: especially at that position where you gotta run a lot

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Speaker 1: and so um that's why you know, I have believed

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Speaker 1: all along that Bud's gone. I mean this, this whole

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Speaker 1: concept of a one year hometown discount proven deal is

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Speaker 1: delusional to me. I don't believe that there isn't gonna

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Speaker 1: be a team that's not gonna throw some money at him.

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Speaker 1: And if I'm him, you gotta take it. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: because he's not five years in you know, another deal

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Speaker 1: is four that's it. You're done. Yeah, and well maybe

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Speaker 1: not finished in terms of a career, finished finished, your

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Speaker 1: earning power is done. So you know, guys that they

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Speaker 1: got to make their move with, you know, in these

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Speaker 1: kinds of situations. Uh, Juju is a little bit different,

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Speaker 1: but also I think kind of similar. He's really young,

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Speaker 1: he came into the league. I think is a nineteen

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Speaker 1: year old. Uh, and he only did four years instead

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Speaker 1: of five. But he's another one of those guys that

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Speaker 1: there is no way, no, I cannot imagine a realistic

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Speaker 1: scenario in which he comes back to the Steelers. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's just says, there just isn't one because somebody's gonna

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Speaker 1: throw fifteen million dollars or more a year at him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and and and it doesn't even you know, as Dan

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Speaker 1: Rooney always used to say, you know, during free agency,

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Speaker 1: when some team would you know, throw a lot of

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Speaker 1: money at a guy, he would say, you know, put

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Speaker 1: that in the pr budget because there are a lot

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Speaker 1: of teams that do that kind of stuff to sell tickets.

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Speaker 1: They have tickets to sell, they have a fan base

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Speaker 1: to appease in terms of you know, um, luxury suite renewals,

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Speaker 1: ticket sales, you know that kind of stuff that really

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Speaker 1: is not an issue for the Steelers in Pittsburgh. So

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Speaker 1: um yeah, I you know, Uh, Matt Filers another one

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Speaker 1: of those kinds of guys. Now, he's not necessarily a

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Speaker 1: big name signing that would attract that would generate a

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Speaker 1: lot of buzz with a fan base, but he's another

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Speaker 1: guy I believe that very easily could find himself overvalued

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Speaker 1: in free agency, and God bless him if he is,

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Speaker 1: He's going to start for somebody somewhere. You know my name,

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Speaker 1: here's my name, Jesse James, R million dollars those uh

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Speaker 1: that model franchise, the Detroit Lion. Jesse James was a

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Speaker 1: nice player here. I got nothing. I mean, fifth round pick. Decent, uh,

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Speaker 1: fifth round pick, I thought, Uh, not a very good blocker,

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Speaker 1: but not nearly as awful as Eric Ebrow. Um. But

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Speaker 1: he's a guy, you know. I mean, you can you

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Speaker 1: can throw b J. Finny into that equation. I mean

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Speaker 1: he signed b J. Finney signed a big deal with

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Speaker 1: the Seahawks in the off season and and wasn't a starter,

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Speaker 1: ends up getting you know, he's traded to Cincinnati before

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Speaker 1: the season's over. The Lions signed your boy James, and

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Speaker 1: then they used the ninth pick on Hawkinson. You know,

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Speaker 1: they're like, they don't even think he's the answer. Well

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Speaker 1: that's again, and that's the other thing that happens with

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Speaker 1: some of these guys. And hopefully, you know, then they

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Speaker 1: get you know, some of their money up front and um,

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Speaker 1: you know, save it because yeah, you know, um and

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Speaker 1: you'd rather have the compics than the players sometimes sometimes

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Speaker 1: uh Hargraves, Javon Hargraves. Um, you know, it was a

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Speaker 1: nice contract that he got. But I don't know, does

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Speaker 1: he is he he's in Philadelphia, right, Okay? I mean,

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Speaker 1: did the Eagles still see him as a long term

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Speaker 1: answer at the numbers that he's going to start pulling down?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I hope, you know, for his sake,

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Speaker 1: that he gets to, you know, earn the money on

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Speaker 1: his contract. But this year or next year, you know, yeah, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, um, so anyway, that's that's the double edged

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Speaker 1: sort of free agency. But in terms of the Steelers

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Speaker 1: being able to keep these guys, there's no money for

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Speaker 1: any of that. You know, a couple of the guys

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Speaker 1: that maybe we just talked about Sutton, maybe Zach Banner, um.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I'm constantly getting questions. You know, the

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Speaker 1: Steelers are gonna have any money, need to get a

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Speaker 1: running have any money. There's no money. There's no money.

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Speaker 1: They have money to keep their own, let alone um

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Speaker 1: sign somebody anything. But you know, the bad news is,

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Speaker 1: in the terms of confessed stork picks, you can only

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Speaker 1: get four, right, right, But well, Bob, we gotta let

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Speaker 1: you go here. We appreciate you dropping by, and hopefully

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Speaker 1: at some point we'll get to see you here in

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Speaker 1: the off season, hopefully before the usually would have been

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Speaker 1: the Combine, but that's not gonna happen. So I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm holding keeping my fingers cross stale for training camp.

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Speaker 1: Let's hope. But that was Bob Labriola, editor of Steelers

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Speaker 1: Digest and Steelers dot Com. He is Matt Williamson, I'm

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Speaker 1: Dale Lally, and of course we want to thank Jacob

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Speaker 1: Brick for keeping us here in the air, and we

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Speaker 1: want to thank you for listening to this edition of

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Speaker 1: The Drive on Steelers Nation Radio.