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Speaker 1: How like, soon did you start coaching when you came

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Speaker 1: home from prison?

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Speaker 2: The minute they said I could, really, I was doing

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Speaker 2: it in the halfway house, really on my phone.

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Speaker 1: Nancy Salzman is a mother, a nurse, and a life coach.

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Speaker 1: You may have heard of her before.

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Speaker 3: Nancy Saltzman, the co founder of the Capitol Region based

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Speaker 3: as sex called Nexium, has been released from prison.

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Speaker 1: But you probably didn't know that. Nancy's also an expert

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Speaker 1: and something called neuro linguistic programming.

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Speaker 3: It's about engineering consciousness.

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Speaker 2: Oh god, I felt like I could communicate telepathically.

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Speaker 1: Well, I knew that it was cultish and weird, but

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Speaker 1: I liked it for all of those reasons. Neuro Linguistic programming,

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Speaker 1: or NLP, is a blend of hypnosis, linguistics, and psychology.

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Speaker 3: Fans say it's like finally getting a user manual for

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Speaker 3: your brain. You can simply delete bad habits, banish crippling phobias,

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Speaker 3: and install new behaviors like software.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I know what you're thinking. This sounds like BS.

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Speaker 2: I am Tony.

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Speaker 3: Robbins, I am the one stop therapist. But what if

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Speaker 3: it works? This is phenomenal, this is wild.

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Speaker 1: I'm Alice Hines.

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Speaker 3: I'm Zoe La Scause.

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Speaker 1: We're journalists and skeptics and best friends.

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Speaker 3: When we first started making this podcast, we thought we

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Speaker 3: were going to do an expose of NLP.

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Speaker 1: But then we started using it ourselves, and we realized

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Speaker 1: it works really well.

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Speaker 3: Maybe dangerously well. Is it possible to use NLP to

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Speaker 3: manipulate people?

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Speaker 2: All communication is some form of manipulation.

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Speaker 3: NLP was used on me to access my.

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Speaker 2: Subconscious in Actually, most people don't have a will.

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Speaker 3: Army spies, Olympic athletes, and cult leaders all love NLP.

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Speaker 3: You may not have heard of it, but someone's probably

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Speaker 3: used it on you without you knowing.

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Speaker 1: It's lurking in meditation apps, EMDR therapy and a ton

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Speaker 1: of self help acts.

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Speaker 3: But none of this is even the craziest part of

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Speaker 3: the story.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty seven, NLP ended up in court as

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Speaker 1: part of a murder trial.

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Speaker 2: I said, there were three people in the room and

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Speaker 2: one person stead, so we know that one of those

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Speaker 2: two people are maybe both of them did it.

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Speaker 3: From Kaleidoscope Mind Games coming January twentieth, Subscribe wherever you

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Speaker 3: get your podcasts.