1 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom Never told you. From how Supports 2 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:14,840 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen 3 00:00:14,960 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: and I'm Caroline, and the Hunger Game sequel, Catching Fire 4 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 1: is soon coming out and we have action heroines on 5 00:00:25,920 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: the brain as a result, we do, yeah, I mean, 6 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: thanks to the awesome Jennifer Lawrence, who I just kind 7 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: of always wish that I were best friends with her. 8 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 1: It got us thinking about some other amazing women who've 9 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: been in film and kind of where the female action 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: hero or action character fits into the genre. Yeah, so 11 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: we've got a lot to talk about, and we got 12 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: to first kick things off with Pam Greer because even 13 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: though she was largely in a lot of black exploitation films, 14 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: sexploitation in films, uh, she is Hollywood's first female action star, right. 15 00:01:08,240 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 1: She kicks so much but in those movies from the seventies, 16 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,759 Speaker 1: and and she knows it because in her words from 17 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 1: Pam Greer, she says, I'm going to make movies the 18 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 1: way I see fit. No threatless, mindless women, no dumb situations. 19 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: I know I have to go slow, but I'm going 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: to sneak up on them little by little. And then 21 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: I'm going to create a monster. This girl isn't just 22 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: another body for their cameras. And I mean she she 23 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,720 Speaker 1: has a great body. She is an incredibly beautiful woman. 24 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: She is you know, when you talk about Pam Greer 25 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:43,199 Speaker 1: or when you read about Pam gree it almost can't 26 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: be separated from what she looks like, which is actually 27 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:52,279 Speaker 1: the same for actually most other female action stars period. Yeah, 28 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: and and Ricky Shubert's The Female Hero in Action Cinema 29 00:01:56,040 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: from ninety six, she refers to Greer for as of 30 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: all as the Godmother of action films and traces the 31 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: timeline of Pam Greer's ascent. And she started out in 32 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one in a women in prison film. This 33 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: would be one of those exploitation kinds of films, Uh 34 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: really that just depict women in scant clothing who are 35 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: all in prison together and all sorts of hijink, sexual 36 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: and otherwise. And Sue and she did a couple of 37 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: these kinds of films and made such a big impression 38 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: that in nineteen seventy three, just a couple of years later, 39 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: she stars in Coffee and the tag line of that 40 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 1: is She's the Godmother of them all the baddest one 41 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: chick hit squad that ever hit town. And while yes, 42 00:02:44,320 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 1: obviously Coffee, as you you might assume from the title, 43 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:53,639 Speaker 1: is absolutely a black exploitation film, it was nevertheless hailed 44 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 1: by Hollywood because we have this female action lead. I 45 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: love tag lines on these movie posters because they go 46 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: on for several paragraphs. It seems like just describing exactly 47 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: how kick buttish these women are. Anyway, So after she 48 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: started Coffee, um, that made her the number one action 49 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 1: lead for women, and that led to nineteen Foxy Brown 50 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: and nineteen Sheba Baby, and then I mean she didn't 51 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: quit in she was in the movie Jackie Brown. Yeah, 52 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: that Quentin Tarantino film kind of revived her image as 53 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: that iconic female action lead. And in these films, even 54 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:38,640 Speaker 1: though there's a lot of problematic stuff going on in 55 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 1: terms of racial stereotypes and misogyny, and clearly that the 56 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: exploitation of Pam Grier's amazing body. Um, there's a lot 57 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 1: of play going on in terms of anxiety over masculinity 58 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: and male sexual performance in Greers films. One thing that 59 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: Schubert points out is how often she ends up shooting, kicking, 60 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: or punching men in the genitals, and she later says, 61 00:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: Pam Grier does that quote, we were making fun of men, 62 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: making fun of us and saying back at you. Yeah, 63 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,040 Speaker 1: A lot of it circles around to the woman, the 64 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: female lead, Pam Greer kind of emasculating the male characters 65 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: out of revenge. Usually a lot of these are revenge flicks. 66 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: So either her, her sister, or her father or someone 67 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 1: in her family has been harmed in some way, usually 68 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: by like a pimper, a drug dealer, and so she's 69 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: this kind of quote unquote crazy woman out for revenge 70 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: on all of these men. And uh. In a Guardian interview, 71 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: she said that as a strong woman, I was seen 72 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: as a threat. There was a fear that women would 73 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 1: mimic me in real life. I remember certain people saying, oh, 74 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 1: she's taking our jobs, she's castrating men. As far as 75 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: I was concerned, I thought, we don't need to walk 76 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 1: behind you, we should walk beside you. And so, yeah, 77 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,919 Speaker 1: it's just like this, this powerful woman who's more than powerful, 78 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 1: she's dangerous, was seen as a threat on screen and off. Yeah, 79 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: and even though it might seem like Pam Greer would 80 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 1: be the victim of the camera lens in this sense, 81 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: being being in these exploitative films, but in a lot 82 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: of ways, there were always strands of empowerment that were 83 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,280 Speaker 1: intertwined with this exploitation. And one thing that's pointed out 84 00:05:26,320 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: I think this was in an article from in the 85 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: Week by Monica Bartziel talking about how race was never downplayed, 86 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: nor her independence, but at the same time, her sexuality 87 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: and her body obviously were always at the forefront of 88 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: these films, and those two issues of sexuality and the 89 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 1: female body is something that is still being talked about 90 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 1: decades later in terms of where are women in action films, 91 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: or more where are female action leads, because there are 92 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: plenty of women in action films who are dancels in 93 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: distress being say right, I mean, there is a lot 94 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: of back and forth about the positives and negatives of 95 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: highlighting the body. But we'll get to that in a 96 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: little bit, and right now, let's look at why Greer's 97 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: career is so significant as that powerhouse action character. Sociologist 98 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: Katherine Gilpatrick examined female action heroes and gender stereotypes. In study. 99 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: She looked at one hundred and fifty seven heroines and 100 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: films released from two thousand five. So that's excluding Greer's 101 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: early films as well as characters like Ripley from Aliens. Yeah, 102 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: but to get an idea of just how how big 103 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: of a deal it is that back in the seventies 104 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: Greer was an action lead, Gilpatrick found that only seven 105 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: percent of those one and fifty seven heroines were what 106 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: we might consider a true action heroine, like a Laura 107 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: Croft or a Coffee or a Shiba baby somebody like that. 108 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: In that's seventeen years after the reign of Pam Greer. 109 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: And meanwhile, fifty eight point six percent of these fifty 110 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 1: seven women were depicted as submissive to the male hero. 111 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: Still they're maintaining those feminine stereotypes, and thirty percent died 112 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 1: by the end of the film. Of those who died 113 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: were actually evil women, characters who died for their crimes 114 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: in some sort of twisted fashion. Oh so so we're 115 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: just getting killed off. Yeah, they're like, oh, that woman 116 00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: is stepping outside her bounds. We better just kill her 117 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:35,440 Speaker 1: off at the end of the movie. And I mean, 118 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 1: gil Patrick does point out that this violent female character, 119 00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:42,840 Speaker 1: whether she's good or bad, is kind of redefining how 120 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: female action characters are appearing on screen, for better or 121 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: for worse. Yeah. Um, But she also points out how 122 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 1: the average v fact the violent female action character doesn't 123 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: look very much at all, though like Greer's characters, often 124 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: they're young, they're white, highly educated, and unmarried. And that 125 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: jumped out to me in researching this, because now, when 126 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the more contemporary female action 127 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: leads that we think of, it is mostly a roster 128 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: of white women. And so I wonder why it had 129 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:25,440 Speaker 1: to maybe be Pam Greer in a black exploitation kind 130 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: of film, who was able to pave the way. Does 131 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: that make sense? Yeah? And why and why African American 132 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:38,320 Speaker 1: characters like her have not been able to really continue. Yeah, 133 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: it was like at first we would we we were 134 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: only Hollywood was only comfortable with seeing, you know, a 135 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: black woman being so violent and aggressive. But now they 136 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:51,560 Speaker 1: outside of Halle Berry and Zoe Seldonna and a few others, 137 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: they're few and far between. No. I really think that's 138 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: an interesting point, and I wonder this is complete just 139 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 1: theory and when if it just has anything to do 140 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: with directors or movie makers fearing that their movies will 141 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: be seen as like exploitation movies or sexploitation movies that 142 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: Pam grew started. Maybe they don't want their movie to 143 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: come off like that. Well, I think it seems like 144 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: the conversation right now is so focused on just getting 145 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: women in these action lead roles that it's still a 146 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: very normative sort of conversation and just like, get anyone 147 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 1: in there. Okay, let's put Angelina Jolie, Let's put you know, 148 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 1: I mean, most of the A list stars, a majority 149 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: of them are going to be the white women. And 150 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: so it's like we haven't even evolved with the point 151 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: to where people are like, oh, well, and now let's 152 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: talk about diversity, which is unfortunate. Why why we can't 153 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: do both at the same time. I don't know. Um, 154 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 1: but let's let's go back a little bit to the 155 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: nineteen eighties, because that is when you to see this 156 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 1: evolution of a tougher, more muscularized woman action star. Yeah. 157 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: Of course, we've already mentioned Sigourney Weaver and alien. She 158 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: she delivers that excellent, excellent line, uh that it contains 159 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: a car sports I'm not going to say it, but uh, 160 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: we've also got Linda Hamilton's who's also amazing and Terminator too, 161 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 1: she is so ripped and bad a um. And then 162 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: there's Whoopi Goldberg. I mean we you know, we talked 163 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: about a lack of diversity, and Whoopi Goldberg is typically 164 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 1: a comedy star. She stars as a tough cop in 165 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: Fatal Beauty, not exactly like some hard hitting action film, 166 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: but she's still there as like a non romantic, you know, 167 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: action star. Yeah. And in this next one, I have 168 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 1: not seen this film, Caroline, but I know that you're 169 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,360 Speaker 1: a big fan of it. Long Kiss good Night with 170 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: Gina Davis. I love it. I actually haven't seen it 171 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: in a long time, and reading all about action stars 172 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: made me want to read it again. And Sam Jack's 173 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 1: and actually he co starred with Gina Davis, and there 174 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: was an interview with him and Scarlett Johansson and Josh 175 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: Weeden about this topic of women action stars, and he 176 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:10,640 Speaker 1: kind of took over the interview and talked about Lucis 177 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: good Night a lot, saying that it was one of 178 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,679 Speaker 1: the best, uh female led action movies out there and 179 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: he was proud to be a part of it. So 180 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: Gina Davis gets real tough, she gets rolls off, rolls 181 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 1: off like she she uh, she's a b a uh 182 00:11:25,400 --> 00:11:27,959 Speaker 1: kind of woman, a vamp. Yeah, she's a b A 183 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,839 Speaker 1: mf um. And that's great though, because Gina Davis also 184 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: is one of the top champions right now that you 185 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:41,239 Speaker 1: hear about advocating for better representation of women in Hollywood, 186 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 1: right like she was in a misrepresentation. Have you seen 187 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,319 Speaker 1: that she's in that documentary and talking a lot at 188 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: length about the importance of the depiction and the perception 189 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: of women on film, you know, in society as well. 190 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: And she's she's very admirable. I love her well. And 191 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: I'm sure that this issue of m in action roles 192 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: and not just being the damsel in distress is part 193 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: of that conversation because as we move forward in our 194 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 1: Hollywood evolution, we do have people like Angelina Jolie who 195 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: are in a lot of action roles. You know, she 196 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: was in Salt she was a tomb writer of course, 197 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: Mr and Mrs Smith. You have Uma Thurman as Beatrix 198 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: Kiddo and kill Bill. She might be one of my 199 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,080 Speaker 1: top five favorite action leads. Yeah, she was. She was 200 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: great in that movie. But I mean she's so like 201 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: single minded and incredible. Um one movie I didn't see. 202 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: I did watch the cartoon on MTV years ago. Uh, 203 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: despite how dark it is is eon Flux Charlie's Theorem. Oh, 204 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,320 Speaker 1: and apparently that was quite a box office tank. Yeah, 205 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 1: I got panned, so I can't. I have no idea 206 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: whether it's any good or not. And then uh knew 207 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: me Repace. I'm sorry if I just butchered her name. 208 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: She was in Prometheus with Charlie's Theorem, but she was 209 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: also the original girl with the dragon tattoo. Yeah, and 210 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: then followed up with Rudy Mara who did the American version. 211 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: And obviously there are lots of names and movies that 212 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: we can continue tossing out, but circling back around to 213 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: The Hunger Games and Catnis. Everdeine played by Jennifer Lawrence. 214 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: When the first movie came out, Hollywood observers were particularly 215 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 1: excited about this heroine, right yeah Rolling Stones Peter Travers 216 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: called her a female warrior worth cheering. I mean she 217 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: she is based on a character in the books, which 218 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: have about twenty four million copies in print. She's a 219 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,440 Speaker 1: character who is on her own. She's not fighting for love, 220 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: you know, she's she's fighting for survival to protect her family. 221 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: You know she is. She kicks a lot of but 222 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: and she is independent and strong while doing so. Yeah, 223 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: and there's also commentary on house. She doesn't have any 224 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: special power. She's not a superhero. She it's just her 225 00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: against the world, use sing her smarts, using obviously her 226 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: bow and arrow skills, um, using her incredible running and 227 00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: jumping capabilities. Um. And it doesn't even though there are 228 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: semi romantic plot lines in the books, it's not like 229 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: a Twilight scenario when you're either Team Edward or Team Jacob. 230 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: And let's face it, Bella's not the most exciting of 231 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 1: action heroes, right someone call her an empty vessel. Um. 232 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: People thought that this movie. They were like, Oh, it's 233 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 1: gonna be really interesting to see how much money this 234 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: movie takes in. I bet it takes in like sixty 235 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: million or something like that, and which would be incredible, 236 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 1: But the reality blew the predictions out of the water. 237 00:14:45,840 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: The movie on opening weekend took in one d and 238 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 1: fifty five million dollars. Yeah, that was way more than expected. 239 00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: I think it actually made a box office record. And 240 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: the fact that The Hunger Games was made on only 241 00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: Evan d million dollars, which is pennies in a bucket 242 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 1: by Hollywood standards, and so for that reason, this success 243 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: surprised people even more. And another person we should say 244 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,359 Speaker 1: he was really excited about Catness was sociologist Katherine Gilpatrick 245 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 1: who did that two thousand and ten study on female 246 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: action characters in film, and she said, yes, she's a 247 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: true action heroine. She wants to protect her family, she's smart, 248 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,520 Speaker 1: she's heroic, but she's not played up as sexy, and 249 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: she said that her character undermined stereotypes of female dependency. 250 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:43,000 Speaker 1: So Catness, I feel like, revived this conversation of women 251 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 1: in these action leads. Although she is she plays a 252 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:51,080 Speaker 1: younger character I believe she's sixteen, but still right, especially 253 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:53,960 Speaker 1: in light of the fact that in her study Gilpatrick 254 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: said that, you know, my research shows that you know, 255 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,920 Speaker 1: the majority, the large majority of women action characters are 256 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: not empowering characters. You know, they're they're kind of like 257 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: the side show, the sexy shot side show. And so 258 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, she was very excited about Catnis, just 259 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: as a lot of other people are. I mean, she 260 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: is a refreshing departure from that Twilight discussion of what 261 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: boy is you know the lead going to fall in 262 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:27,560 Speaker 1: love with? Yeah, and some people have said that The 263 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: Hunger Games is an example of a surge in female 264 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 1: lead action films. There's a movie, Haywire, starring the m 265 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,240 Speaker 1: m A Fighter Gina Krano. Although kind of like a 266 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: on Flux, Haywire did not do too well at the 267 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: box office for reasons though that we'll get into in 268 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: a little bit. Um there's also Searshaw Ronan, who plays 269 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: a teenage assassin in Hannah, and she was also a 270 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 1: star of the science fiction film The Host. Oh Hayley Steinfeld. 271 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 1: I'm a huge fan of her. She led the charge 272 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,679 Speaker 1: for revenge in True Grit, which if you haven't seen it, 273 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: what are you waiting for? I love that movie and 274 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:09,280 Speaker 1: I read the book and the movie is so good. 275 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: The movie is very good. And now now she'll be 276 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: starring an Ender's Game as well. And then we have 277 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,119 Speaker 1: a little Chloe Morettes who is in Atlanta native Christian. 278 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: She didn't know that. Yeah, she starts in Kick Ass 279 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: one and two and the movie Let Me In. And 280 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 1: on the animated front, we can't forget Merida of Disney 281 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:31,640 Speaker 1: Pixars Brave which was their very first female lead animated movie, 282 00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 1: which also did very well at the box office, kind 283 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:35,920 Speaker 1: of in a Hunger Game sort of way, where people 284 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: were like, our folks gonna want to go see this? 285 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,959 Speaker 1: Will children want to see a plucky young girl leading 286 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: the charge? Ye? Yeah, yeah they well, especially with all 287 00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: that crazy red hair that I love. So all of this. 288 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: It's interesting that we're talking about this surge now in 289 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: because the way that people are talking about it and 290 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:56,560 Speaker 1: talking about Countiness, you would think that this is the 291 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 1: first time we've ever been around the block with female 292 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,199 Speaker 1: all action characters and and female led action movies. But 293 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 1: we were having pretty much this exact same conversation back 294 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: in two thousand one, when according to the Washington Monthly, 295 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: action chicks were taking over action chicks. What a what 296 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,919 Speaker 1: a descriptive phrase? Um, but it's true. Though. This was 297 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 1: when we had Laura Craft hitting the box office and 298 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,520 Speaker 1: the massive success of Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, and critics 299 00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,200 Speaker 1: were saying in response to this that, oh, you know what, 300 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: beefcake is played out and reliance on brute force is passe. 301 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:38,920 Speaker 1: A female action stars are where it's at. And yet 302 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,120 Speaker 1: a decade later, we're having this conversation all over again, right, 303 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: And I mean it was the same It was almost 304 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,440 Speaker 1: the exact same thing. There were there were conversations of 305 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: you know, femininity versus masculinity, strength versus brains, you know, 306 00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,520 Speaker 1: all of that kind of stuff, whether whether it's okay 307 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 1: for a woman to kick a man's but on screen, 308 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,640 Speaker 1: or in talking about how perhaps a female action lead 309 00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 1: doesn't have to perform action in the same way that 310 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,680 Speaker 1: a guy does. She doesn't necessarily have to knock out 311 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: some giant ogre. She might use her brains more, or 312 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: use her bow and arrow alac cadmus or something like that. Um. 313 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: And in talking about why this is coming up more today, 314 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: Jeff Gomez, who's the founder of the marketing company Starlight Runner, 315 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 1: says that it's a culmination in convergence of trends that 316 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: have been building, i e. The growing knowledge that women 317 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:43,880 Speaker 1: are making the decisions in regard to entertainment choices, which 318 00:19:43,920 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 1: I feel like we've been doing that for a while. 319 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: I think that's interesting. I I I wish that there 320 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,520 Speaker 1: was a little bit more information from from Mr Gomez. Uh. 321 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 1: I think that was in a Huffington's Post story, because 322 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 1: I mean, what's the difference now, like we're women not 323 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:00,800 Speaker 1: allowed to say what movie they wanted to go to 324 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,239 Speaker 1: back when you know, G I J and or long 325 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 1: Kiss good night, we're in theaters like I do. I 326 00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,720 Speaker 1: wonder what that means. Well, a lot of times when 327 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: we talk about action movies, we're talking about blockbusters and 328 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,080 Speaker 1: movies with huge budgets, and a lot of times those 329 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: movies draw more male audiences. But it might just be 330 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: because it's you know, Sylvester Stallone on screen. You can't 331 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: even understand it's true. Um anyway, Well, another another reason 332 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,600 Speaker 1: for the episodes could be that you know, people have 333 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,359 Speaker 1: I say people, I mean like movie makers. Filmmakers have 334 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 1: seen the incredible popularity of films film series really like 335 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, and they're trying 336 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: to find a new way to tell the story. How 337 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 1: do we take this successful formula and tweak it? And 338 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,159 Speaker 1: so maybe you know, let's let's stigg a woman in 339 00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,640 Speaker 1: there instead. Well, in speaking of let's stick a woman 340 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,760 Speaker 1: in there instead, um, there also this idea that hey, 341 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,400 Speaker 1: maybe younger viewers are more into the idea of going 342 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 1: to see an action movie, regardless of whether it's starring 343 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,560 Speaker 1: Jennifer Lawrence or give me a name of a strong man. Hemsworth, 344 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:22,120 Speaker 1: Chris Hemsworth, thank you. And Hunger Games producer Nina Jacobson 345 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,240 Speaker 1: was talking about this about how viewers under twenty five 346 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 1: are more open to the idea that a character's identity 347 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,200 Speaker 1: isn't defined by gender alone, and that's I mean, that's 348 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: a refreshing thing. I hope that's true. Yeah. Absolutely. But 349 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: there's also the legacy issue too, in which you know, 350 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:46,360 Speaker 1: filmmakers and production houses want to make money obviously off 351 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: their films, and if female at action movies in the 352 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:54,320 Speaker 1: past tank like an a on flux, like a haywire, 353 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: then when someone comes back around pitching an idea for 354 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 1: a female at action film, um, the funders say that 355 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: didn't work so well in the past, right, So it's 356 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: not necessarily direct like hatred of women per se. It's 357 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 1: it's more of like, well, if it's not going to 358 00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: make money, I don't care who the star is. Yeah, 359 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,639 Speaker 1: I mean, it's executives making executive type business decisions, which 360 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: is why the success again of a Hunger Games like 361 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:30,480 Speaker 1: movie is so huge for the future of women in action. Absolutely, 362 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,479 Speaker 1: and I mean I do wonder like, I mean, I know, 363 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: I I I kind of speak poorly of the Twilight series. Um, 364 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: but I wonder if that did help usher in catness. Oh, 365 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 1: I'm sure it did, because both of them were based 366 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,879 Speaker 1: on book series, and both of those Twilight and Hunger 367 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 1: Game series skewed female and their readership, and those were 368 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:54,359 Speaker 1: you know, the people who did end up buying the 369 00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:57,199 Speaker 1: bulk of the tickets, although there were still plenty of 370 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: dudes who filled those theater suits as well. But in 371 00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:07,680 Speaker 1: considering though, why more female action leads on the big 372 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:13,160 Speaker 1: screen is important other than just basic parity, it's worthwhile 373 00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: considering what we really want from this as an audience, 374 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:22,400 Speaker 1: because some could say, well, aren't you just glorifying violence? 375 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: Or you know, these women are often, you know, very 376 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: sexy and their bodies are always on display. So what 377 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: is it about the female action hero that's so great 378 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: for audiences? Yeah? Um Inku Kang wrote for any yr 379 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: In that these female action stars need to be positive 380 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 1: role models. That's the that's the role that they should serve, 381 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,280 Speaker 1: because she says, we've been waiting a long time to 382 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: see more female protagonists distinguished by their heart, courage, and 383 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: smarts instead of their cup size. But she does admit 384 00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: that these female stars should not be considered less of 385 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,880 Speaker 1: a model because their conventional attractiveness is on display. These 386 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,240 Speaker 1: bodies show strength, and she even mentions Michelle Obama because 387 00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 1: she said, you know, it can't be a bad thing 388 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: to show a female head basically on a strong muscular body. Yeah. 389 00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: And that doesn't necessarily mean, though, that they have to 390 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: model male behavior. As Elissa Rosenberg points out at Think 391 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: progress Um, she says that male action heroes are heightened 392 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 1: versions of the ideals and traits to which men are 393 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 1: supposed to aspire. Success with getting women in action leads 394 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: does not mean just putting jamming women into those same 395 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: kinds of aspirational characters, right. She talks about how if 396 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: they're going to model some behavior, that they should filmmakers, 397 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 1: directors whoever, should acknowledge the differences in strength and the 398 00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,960 Speaker 1: different strengths that exist between men and women, friends to 399 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:03,159 Speaker 1: and brains, tact in maternal nature and women versus strength, 400 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: bravery and protectiveness in men. I don't disagree, however, I 401 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: just is it maternal? The word maternal that kind of 402 00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: raises your eyebrow. Not necessarily, but why you know, I 403 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,639 Speaker 1: think strength, bravery, and protectiveness are sure not gender specific, 404 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: you know. And and and yes, I get what what 405 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: they're saying. As far as you know, you have like 406 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: a Thor, a Chris Hemsworth, you know, fighting and hammering 407 00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: and look and gorgeous when he does it, you know. 408 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: And and so it's not that a woman can't do that. 409 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: They're arguing that, I guess women should be you know 410 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,919 Speaker 1: used there. Well, it's like if speaking of Thor. Okay, 411 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: this comes up in conversations about The Avengers and Scott 412 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: Johansson's role as a black widow and that where yes, 413 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: she's in fight scenes and she definitely knows how to 414 00:25:57,440 --> 00:26:00,359 Speaker 1: take some people down with her brute strength, but her 415 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: brute strength is not in a Thor kind of way 416 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 1: her number one contribution to the group. She's able to 417 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:14,880 Speaker 1: outsmart people and use maybe a broader array of talents. Yeah, 418 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 1: I mean, because Rosenberg does cite Sigourney Weaver's uh portrayal 419 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: of that maternal instinct. You know, it's Sigourney Weaver mother 420 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:26,160 Speaker 1: versus alien mother going head to head, and how how 421 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: that maternal force propels her to defeat the aliens And 422 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,679 Speaker 1: so yeah, no, I get it, but I think that 423 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: we shouldn't, you know, we shouldn't stick people in the 424 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 1: strict strict roles. Well, and even Katie sack Off, who 425 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: is a Battlestar Galactica alum, she plays Starbuck, I believe um, 426 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:49,919 Speaker 1: she says, yeah, just you don't just make them dudes. 427 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 1: She was talking to Vanity Fair about this, and she said, 428 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 1: I'm tired of women playing action heroes like men, because 429 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: they aren't men, but sometimes they are it and like men, 430 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: I want women who play these roles to realize that 431 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: you don't have to take away the vulnerability and the femininity. 432 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,200 Speaker 1: Those things just make the character stronger. Because you take 433 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: the sensibilities of being a woman with the physical training 434 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,640 Speaker 1: of a man, you'd be unstoppable. So maybe instead of 435 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,680 Speaker 1: like saying that women have to use their feminine wiles 436 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:21,359 Speaker 1: and men have to use their brute strength, we we 437 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: can switch it up a little exactly and everybody gets 438 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: a piece of both of those things. Well, and speaking 439 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,439 Speaker 1: of the feminine wiles issue, what about the sexiness? This 440 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: comes up a lot. I mean, starting with the conversation 441 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: about you know, Pam Greer, where sex was always at 442 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,679 Speaker 1: the forefront of everything, and even it was like before 443 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:43,359 Speaker 1: she could punch a guy in his crotch, she would 444 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,080 Speaker 1: first probably have to fain at least starting to have 445 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,080 Speaker 1: sex with him or something like that. Right, And actually 446 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,840 Speaker 1: that's kind of what Katie Waldman from Slate wrote. Uh. 447 00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: She said that women use sex appeal as a weapon 448 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: far more than male characters do, and that they tend 449 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: to reach a point in their missions where they must 450 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: feign a desire for a powerful male to get what 451 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: they want. But she asks if female action here is 452 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: excel and marshaling that sexuality, does that take away from 453 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: their athletic or mental feet well? And also as I 454 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: was reading this, two words came into my mind. James Bond. 455 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: That's all the guy does is trick women into bed 456 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: and then you're shuddering with the like Daniel Craig looks, 457 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: oh goodness suit. But in every Double oh seven film, 458 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: the plot line eventually involves him getting in bed with 459 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,640 Speaker 1: someone and that and the interesting thing is that we 460 00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: think of James Bond, you know, being more of a 461 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: guy type of flick where you know, his sexiness though 462 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: is integral to the whole franchise. Sure, his his sexiness, 463 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: but also I mean James Bond isn't doing a lot 464 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 1: of hand to hand combat. I mean he's not. He 465 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,040 Speaker 1: doesn't have a thor hammer. He's not running around punching 466 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 1: people in the face. Noss is early, He's he's being 467 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 1: speak He's he's using his brains and his technological knowledge 468 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: uh and his his uh, his sex appeal to to 469 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: win these missions. Well. Scarlett Johansson, in that conversation referenced 470 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: earlier with Josh Weeden and some other folks, was talking 471 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: about how she feels like, as someone who has played 472 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:28,440 Speaker 1: this role before, that there is too much focus on sexuality. 473 00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,960 Speaker 1: She should a funny quote saying, I think they're always 474 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: fighting in a bra so while it might be exciting 475 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 1: for a still photo, it's ridiculous. But I have a 476 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: feeling she might have also been exasperated at this point 477 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: because on the press tour for The Avengers, the number 478 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: of questions that she got about losing weight for the role, 479 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: what whether she was wearing underwear in her Cats suit, 480 00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 1: all of these absurd questions that, of course none of 481 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: the other guys were asked, and she called the journalists 482 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: out for it, which is great, but yeah, I can 483 00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: imagine why she thinks something like that, she should just 484 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: probably hold up que cards at some point and be like, here, 485 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: just write this down. This is this is my my 486 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,040 Speaker 1: stance on that. UM. But you know, I mean, say 487 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:21,520 Speaker 1: what you will. That sex appeal helps draw quite quite 488 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: a large audience. And the thing is, at least according 489 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: to this two thousand three thesis that we found UM 490 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,840 Speaker 1: from the University of Washington, male viewers are drawn to 491 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: female action lead movies because in part of the sexiness 492 00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,800 Speaker 1: the sex factor, whereas women tend to watch action films 493 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,680 Speaker 1: to see complex female characters in complex roles. Yeah. I 494 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,760 Speaker 1: I I'm not a huge action movie fan. I don't 495 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: really go out of my way to watch action movies, 496 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: but in in more thinking type of action movies, I 497 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: do like to see type of women characters that they 498 00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: have versus like a romantic comedy. Sure well, and the 499 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 1: thing is plenty of men, like we've said, are going 500 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: to see these movies. And not to make it sound 501 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,440 Speaker 1: like this episode of sponsored by Hunger Games, you know, 502 00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:17,120 Speaker 1: but but of Jennifer Lawrence would like to come to 503 00:31:17,160 --> 00:31:22,880 Speaker 1: the podcast. This is her invitation, UM, but thirty of 504 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: the opening weekend audience at the Hunger Games was men right, 505 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: and they made up of the opening weekend audience for Brave, 506 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,560 Speaker 1: although I wonder if that was Dad's taking little girls 507 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: either way. Either way, it's a good thing. And they 508 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 1: made up almost half of the snow White and the 509 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 1: Huntsman audience. But that might tie into to the fact 510 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,160 Speaker 1: that it was starring Kristen Stewart and Charlie's Throne, two 511 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,920 Speaker 1: very attractive women, and that might tie into that sex 512 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,840 Speaker 1: appeal aspect of this whole conversation. And I'm trying to 513 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: pay of the previous too. I did not see the movie, 514 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: but I remember the previous being very like action oriented, 515 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,680 Speaker 1: not not any sort of like somebody falling in love 516 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: with someone else oriented, And so I wonder if that 517 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,320 Speaker 1: was more of a draw too. Well, And something that's 518 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 1: come up to is a likability issue. We're circling back 519 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: around to Haywire, which was the action movie starring mm 520 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: A fighter Gina Kurano which tanked at the box office, 521 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:31,160 Speaker 1: and Jeff Gomez, again speaking to having to Post, thinks 522 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 1: that it has to do with the trailer showing a 523 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: relatively unknown actress beating up well liked male co stars 524 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: Channing Tatum and you and McGregor. Yeah, And he says 525 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: that this makes her threatening to men and unsympathetic to women. 526 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 1: I didn't see that movie because well, I'm just so 527 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: really good at the theater. I don't know how many 528 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:52,920 Speaker 1: times in this podcast I'm gonna say I haven't seen 529 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 1: that movie. Um, but I thought the trailer looked really cool. 530 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,400 Speaker 1: I don't, I mean, how is it any different? And uh, 531 00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: what's her name? Um, girl with the dragon tattoo beating 532 00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,320 Speaker 1: up guys in that movie? But yeah, I mean, I 533 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,880 Speaker 1: think this is not so much an issue of not 534 00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: wanting to see Channing Tatum getting his face beaten in 535 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:16,479 Speaker 1: by a woman, but the issue of it's hard to 536 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:24,640 Speaker 1: probably make a big box office draw starring someone unknown period. Well, 537 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: I mean, and that likability ties into this idea coming 538 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 1: from the Washington Monthly, that men will watch these movies, 539 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: but only to a point. Uh. They wrote that women 540 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,600 Speaker 1: are still only allowed to be violent within certain parameters, 541 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 1: largely prescribed by what men are willing to tolerate, and 542 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:44,880 Speaker 1: while what they will tolerate on screen has changed, the 543 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 1: writer says women action characters violence is more sterilized and 544 00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: their appearance is less messy. But then to give the 545 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,720 Speaker 1: final word to Josh Sweden, for whom we have Buffy 546 00:33:55,760 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: the Vampire Slayer to think, he says that actually, guys really, 547 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:05,920 Speaker 1: really really do want to see women in action on screen, right, yeah? 548 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: He he admits that there's a glass ceiling cinematically. Um, 549 00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,879 Speaker 1: he says, there's not a major studio that is out 550 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: there that is trying to make a movie about a 551 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:17,080 Speaker 1: female superhero. They'll say this is guy stuff. They'll say 552 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: women don't want to see action or men don't want 553 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: to see women, And I'm like, men don't want to 554 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: see women of us really do? Well? It reminds me 555 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: of the Heat that came out the summer, which was 556 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 1: starring Sandra Bolo and Melissa McCarthy, and it did huge 557 00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: numbers at the box office, and it was the first 558 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: of its kind as a softer sort of action film, 559 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: but it was a buddy cop movie starring two women, 560 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: and people were initially kind of like with the preview 561 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: of Hunger Game, saying, well, this is actually gonna draw 562 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: any any money. Oh yeah, it does, because we get 563 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,480 Speaker 1: excited about these kinds of things. We get excited about 564 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: seeing women in new kinds of roles. And it's going 565 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: back to what we said earlier about uh legacy, about 566 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: when something is successful before, it's more likely to be 567 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: recreated made again, more money put invested into it, and 568 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:11,399 Speaker 1: so somebody like Melissa McCarthy, who's known to be hilarious 569 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:15,000 Speaker 1: and she was in Bridesmaids, which was hugely successful. Also, 570 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 1: people are more willing to be like, Okay, she's not 571 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,680 Speaker 1: a face that I would normally associate with this type 572 00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,240 Speaker 1: of movie, but you know, she's starring with Sandra Bullock, 573 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: who's you know, an incredible actors. Let me go see it. Yeah, exactly. 574 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: And one thing that we haven't circled back around to 575 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: is the diversity factor, because again, it's mostly white actress 576 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,920 Speaker 1: after a white actress for the most part. But in 577 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,680 Speaker 1: terms of women in action films, it does seem like 578 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: it's not just a deja bu of two thousand one, 579 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:47,840 Speaker 1: that there is actually progress being made in Hollywood, and 580 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:51,319 Speaker 1: I think Hunger Games is partially to thank for that. Yeah, absolutely, 581 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:54,960 Speaker 1: So best of luck to Jennifer Lawrence and her crew. 582 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: I hope you bring in so many millions of dollars 583 00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,799 Speaker 1: catching fire so so that they'll just keep making more 584 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 1: amazing roles for amazing female heroin action character ladies and 585 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: just exactly what you said, Caroline put it on a 586 00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,640 Speaker 1: T shirt. So let us sell your thoughts. So, if 587 00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,719 Speaker 1: you're you're an action fan listening, we want to hear 588 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: from you. Mom Stuff discovery dot com is where you 589 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: can send your letters. You can also message us on 590 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: Facebook and tweet us at mom Stuff podcast and we've 591 00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: got a couple of letters to share with you when 592 00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 1: we come right back from a quick break and now 593 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:36,200 Speaker 1: back to our letters. So Alana wrote us with a 594 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 1: story of trying to not be sexy on Halloween. She writes, 595 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: I just want a costume contest for Halloween, and I 596 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: feel pretty cool. I dress up as a Victorian era 597 00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: lion Tamer. I'm really into authentic costumes, so I put 598 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:54,720 Speaker 1: this together from a lot of different places on Etsy. 599 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: I didn't just buy a typical sexy lion tamer costume. 600 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:01,880 Speaker 1: I'm not very comfortable being viewed as sexy, but I 601 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 1: do want everyone to think that I looked really good. 602 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: I recognized it's a fine line, but I thought I 603 00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,120 Speaker 1: did it very well with its costume. I was pretty 604 00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 1: much fully covered. I felt really pretty in my costume 605 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: and totally comfortable. I was no sexy lion Tamer. I 606 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,480 Speaker 1: was a badass lion tamer. But on my way to 607 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 1: the bar where the contest was being held, a guy 608 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 1: dressed up like a top gun pilot told me, you 609 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,800 Speaker 1: sure are falling out of that Huh. I was totally stunned. 610 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,560 Speaker 1: I'm an hourglass shape with a big hips and a 611 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: large bus in a tiny waist, obviously the course it emphasizes, 612 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,000 Speaker 1: but I'd worked so hard to make sure there was 613 00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: no cleavage. I don't know what I'm supposed to do 614 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,359 Speaker 1: about the way my poor body is shaped. I had 615 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: no way tried to be sexy, but on that street corner, 616 00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: this random guy made me feel like I had purchased 617 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: a sexy lion Tamer costume just for him. Was he 618 00:37:49,560 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: hitting on me? Was that the intent? Who knows? I 619 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,760 Speaker 1: was feeling pretty sucky about my decision to wear a corset. 620 00:37:54,800 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: I just wanted to look pretty, not sexy. When I 621 00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 1: got to the bar, I won the costume contest, and 622 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,920 Speaker 1: that made me feel a way better. But now I'm 623 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 1: really thinking about next year and what a girl with 624 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 1: my body type is allowed to do. But well, no, 625 00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: I think I think, Alanna, that you need to embrace 626 00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,000 Speaker 1: your curvy body shape. Your body is not poor, your 627 00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: body is wonderful, and you're allowed to do whatever you want. Yeah, 628 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: and a guy making comments to you on the street 629 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:27,080 Speaker 1: corner is what is out of line, not you? And 630 00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: you're awesome award winning Victorian line tamer costume which does 631 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,960 Speaker 1: sound quite cool? That does And and if you want 632 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:37,120 Speaker 1: to send us a picture, I would love to see it. Yeah. 633 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:39,880 Speaker 1: And by the way, if you if there's an app 634 00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: for cat calling, it's called hollaback and download it and 635 00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: it can give you some tips on and how to 636 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: deal with dudes like that sounds good to me. This 637 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: is a Facebook message from Mandy. She's responding to our 638 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:58,799 Speaker 1: Crazy Women podcast and said that it really resonated with her. 639 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:01,640 Speaker 1: She says, it really irks me when people label someone 640 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:04,200 Speaker 1: else is crazy, and it absolutely seems to happen way 641 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:06,640 Speaker 1: more to women and girls than it ever does to 642 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,120 Speaker 1: men and boys. I didn't really fit in in the 643 00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,759 Speaker 1: small town I grew up in, and one of the 644 00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: mean things people said about me was that I was 645 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: crazy or a psycho. I didn't do anything to deserve 646 00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 1: such harsh treatment, and the pain of that still sticks 647 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: with me to this day. Considering at the time that 648 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: I was going through such an anxiety disorder brought on 649 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,240 Speaker 1: by undiagnosed obsessive compulsive disorder, being called crazy and wondering 650 00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,600 Speaker 1: if it was true made for some pretty miserable times 651 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:31,439 Speaker 1: in my life. Now I'm a successful woman who runs 652 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,279 Speaker 1: around business and is raising a young family. Through hard 653 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: work IF behavior cognitive therapy as well as medication, I'm 654 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,400 Speaker 1: able to live a life mostly free of o c 655 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: D in the symptoms of it, such as anxiety and depression. 656 00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: I used to hide the emotional and mental problems I've 657 00:39:44,840 --> 00:39:46,560 Speaker 1: been through in my life, but now I am very 658 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,640 Speaker 1: open and honest about it and hope that I break 659 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:52,120 Speaker 1: down this crazy stigma. And I'm always floored by the 660 00:39:52,120 --> 00:39:55,399 Speaker 1: amount of people, especially women, who have had similar experiences 661 00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:57,880 Speaker 1: and similar problems as me, but we're too afraid to 662 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:00,600 Speaker 1: tell anyone or seek help for fear of being lay crazy. 663 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:03,600 Speaker 1: Words can hurt and do a lot of damage, and 664 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,120 Speaker 1: crazy is no exception. So thank you so much Mandy 665 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:09,239 Speaker 1: for sharing your story. I think it's very enlightening and 666 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,399 Speaker 1: I hope uh some listeners out there take it to heart. Yeah, 667 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,120 Speaker 1: and thanks to everyone who's written in mom Subdiscovery dot 668 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 1: com is our email address. You can also message us 669 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,800 Speaker 1: on Facebook, follow us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast. 670 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,879 Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at stuff mom 671 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:26,759 Speaker 1: Never Told You and on Tumblr as well. It's stuff 672 00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,439 Speaker 1: I'm Never told You dot tumbler dot com. And last, 673 00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,840 Speaker 1: but certainly not least, we have a YouTube channel and 674 00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: you should check it out. It's YouTube dot com slash 675 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,439 Speaker 1: stuff mom, Never Told You, and don't forget to subscribe 676 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 1: for more on this and thousands of other topics. Is 677 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:54,560 Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com. 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