1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,119 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,160 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hello, Welcome 5 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: back to the show. I'm sitting entirely too low right now. 6 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: My name is Matt. Pump up that chair, Matt. My 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: name is Noel. They call me Ben. We are joined 8 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: as always with our super producer, Paul Mission Controlled decand 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: who just returned from mysterious adventures. Thanks for coming back, Paul. 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that 11 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:47,640 Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. So 12 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: how's everybody doing today? Before we get into this, I 13 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: spoke with Mission Control a little bit before we went 14 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: back on the air, asked him if he was okay. 15 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: He gave me a thumbs up. Paul, were still on 16 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 1: thumbs up status. Okay, just for just for the record, 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: we we re recorded this intro. So I don't know 18 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 1: how many times we can ask Paul to give me 19 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: a thumbs up. I mean, it's tired of it. How 20 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:13,839 Speaker 1: many times has this happened? Right? I mean infinite number 21 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 1: of times? Right? When all the generations. Well, I was 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:18,839 Speaker 1: just gonna tell you guys, I for the first time 23 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: put some glow in the dark planets up above the 24 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,920 Speaker 1: ceiling where my son sleeps, and I did that yesterday. 25 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,320 Speaker 1: And the one thing that's missing from that, it's got 26 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: all the planets. Pluto is not included, remember, but it 27 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 1: does not have the moon. It doesn't have the moon. 28 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: There's a really cool moon globe you can get, and 29 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: there's also a glow in the dark three dimensional moon 30 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: sphere you could get for him. That one is really 31 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: awesome and I'm looking to get that one day, the 32 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: day that doesn't break the bank. Yeah, because these things 33 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,680 Speaker 1: were real, real cheap. I want to get one of 34 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 1: those cool starry night projector things that you just put 35 00:01:56,920 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: like on the floor and it just projects this cool 36 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: like to see on the ceiling all around your room. 37 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 1: And I'm thirty five, so I'm into stuff like that 38 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,400 Speaker 1: that actually sounds amazing. Yeah, I love night projections. I have. 39 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:12,960 Speaker 1: I have some stuff like that at my the place 40 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: where I currently live there my other residence, yes, a 41 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: place where I live, which is a real place. How 42 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: are things going where you live? What do you think 43 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 1: about space exploration today? We're exploring a strange story about 44 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: the moon, and we'd like to hear from you. So 45 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: if this spirit so moves you while you listen to 46 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: today's show, feel free to pose. It will be here 47 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: when you get back, and give us a call with 48 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:43,639 Speaker 1: your thoughts directly, your visceral hot takes. You're off the cuff, 49 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: stuff that you wouldn't say to anyone other than us 50 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: and your fellow listeners, like a machine facsimile of us. Yeah, yeah, 51 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:58,079 Speaker 1: you're innermost thoughts. Spill them, yeah, along with your social 52 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:00,639 Speaker 1: Security number, a list of your fears, your blood type. 53 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: But really we we need your innermost thoughts to to 54 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: fuel our machine or infernal machine we've created here. Try 55 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: to keep them limited to the three minute mark, right, Yeah, 56 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: if you know, if you want to or just leave 57 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of messages, that's fine. That's Matt's favorite thing 58 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 1: when you hit our call in line and leave fifteen 59 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: messages because he gets a notification. Yeah, we we mentioned 60 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: one person. I think in the last episode been that 61 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: that person hasn't called back again yet. Maybe she knew 62 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: we were talking about her, you know, fourth dimensionally, Jennifer, Right, 63 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: I maybe feel free to keep calling Jennifer. But if 64 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 1: you want to take a page out of Jennifer's book 65 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: and share some information with your fellow listeners, you're probably 66 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: wondering if you just pick up the phone and start talking, 67 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: almost you have to hit a numerical code first. Yes, 68 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:56,560 Speaker 1: that's one eight three three st d w y t K. 69 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 1: That's just Stufinitely don't want you to know. Every time 70 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: we say number, it feels like there's going to be 71 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: an AM radio talk show tag on where it's like 72 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: in the money down the moon. Yes, yes, the moon. 73 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 1: We have been there, not the four of us personally, 74 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 1: and odds are not most of us listening, but our 75 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: species has. It's pretty easy to prove this is the case. However, 76 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,440 Speaker 1: it is completely absolutely understandable. I would argue that folks 77 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: could be skeptical about this claim. After all, the timeline 78 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: is really weird. So our entire species, out of everybody, 79 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 1: our entire species, one country landed people on the moon, 80 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: and they only did it six times, and they only 81 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: did it between nineteen sixty nine to nineteen seventy two, 82 00:04:47,240 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: at which point they just stopped. Yeah, for no reason 83 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: other than it's really really expensive and there's not much 84 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: going on up there officially, right, it's pretty it's pretty dangerous, right, 85 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: and it's a dangerous expedition, one of the most dangerous 86 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: trips those people would have ever taken in their lives. 87 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 1: Today's episode is about the idea that we did not 88 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 1: stop going to the moon, so and that perhaps are 89 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: the reason we went up there was not what was 90 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: told of the public in the world exactly exactly. So 91 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: to to get to get our our heads around this first, 92 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: we have to start with the facts. So here they 93 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: are and side note, we would love to hear any 94 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: I would love to hear any counter arguments about this 95 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 1: because I am certain that some of us listening as 96 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 1: soon as they heard me say, yeah, we went to 97 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: the moon and it's pretty easy. You're right, right, Well, 98 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 1: it's a show that we got there. Yes we will. 99 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: We will have some examples, uh, some arguments for why 100 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: that is the case, and we want to hear your 101 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: arguments against it. So boom, we're back in the nineteen fifties. 102 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: This is the Moon, what we did, and how we 103 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: did it. It's nineteen fifties. The United States is locked 104 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: in a race with the Soviet Union for domination over everything, 105 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: especially space. The new frontier, and you know, this is 106 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: all just more cold war stuff. After we we as 107 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: in the Soviet Union and the United States were victorious 108 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 1: during World War Two, we're trying to figure out who 109 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 1: is the superpower. And then on January two, nineteen fifty nine, 110 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: there's this thing called the Soviet Luna one spacecraft and 111 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: it made the first official fly by of the Moon 112 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: at a distance of three thousand, seven hundred and twenty 113 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:43,679 Speaker 1: five miles. That's five thousand kilometers from the Moon's surface, 114 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: so it's that far away from the Moon. But again, 115 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: this is a huge achievement because it's the first time 116 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: we've ever gotten a piece of human machinery that far 117 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 1: out to the Moon and then successfully essentially looked at 118 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,920 Speaker 1: it with with a piece of of technology that we created. 119 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: On September twelfth, ninety nine, they landed the second Lina mission. 120 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 1: And it's strange because will will hear that described is 121 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: they impacted the Moon, which we have to remember for 122 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: the time. It was a really big, an amazing deal 123 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: just to be able to hit that moving target. Oh yeah, 124 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: that's amazing. The math involved is so far beyond my 125 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: comprehension that it's crazy that they could even attempt to 126 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 1: do it, and then on May nine sixty one, severely 127 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: freaked out by by the success of the U S 128 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: SR President John F. Kennedy issues a challenge in his 129 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 1: speech to Congress when he says, I believe that this 130 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: nation should commit itself to achieve the goal before this 131 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: decade is out. I've landed a man on the moon 132 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: and retarded him safely to Earth. And see that was 133 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: right after one of Dr field Good's injections of what 134 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: we now know was math m it means, is that right? Yes, Kennedy? Uh, yes, 135 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: that we made him talk like that. It was all 136 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: It was, exactly what it was about, and just more 137 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: of the energy of the past. Yeah, he was already there. 138 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 1: He was already on the moon looking looking down you like, sir. 139 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: Income inequality remains a problem. The nation is embroiled in 140 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: racial disparity. Intention and he's like the moon Moon. And 141 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 1: also as the doctor, where has the diet called Maryland? Uh? Yes, 142 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 1: this leads to a series of things. We're gonna walk 143 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: through him pretty quickly. Before we had the Apollo program, 144 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 1: we had something called the U s Ranger Program. This 145 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:45,560 Speaker 1: ram from six one to sixty five, it sent nine 146 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: missions to the Moon. There were no people on them, 147 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: This was all machinery. In sixty two, the Ranger four 148 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: reached the lunar surface, but it impacted, It crashed, and 149 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 1: it wasn't able to send any data back. So we 150 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,840 Speaker 1: just managed to may a very expensive bullet essentially, yeah, 151 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: and a small crater. But hey, congratulations, we had an impact. Right, 152 00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:10,720 Speaker 1: That's how it would be written in some kind of 153 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 1: board room where they're having Hey, look, we made an impact. 154 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 1: We made an impact. We literally made an impact. Two 155 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 1: years later, Rangers seven captures and sends back four thousand 156 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: photos of the Moon before it hits the surface, and 157 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 1: also goes to put The next big step was to 158 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: land something without crashing. Yes, a good idea, um. Again, 159 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 1: much more difficult than you could ever imagine. Um. However, 160 00:09:38,559 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 1: here's the thing. The Soviets, again like they did before, 161 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: beat us out the Americans, of course, by touching down 162 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: the lunar nine. So they're at the ninth iteration of 163 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: the Luna at this point on February third, nineteen sixties six. 164 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,440 Speaker 1: But here's the thing, though, the American side, again of 165 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: this Cold War, we weren't very far behind the surveyor 166 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 1: one mission. This is a new craft or a new 167 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: uh I guess part of the program. It made a 168 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:09,679 Speaker 1: controlled landing on the Moon about three months later. So 169 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 1: here we are nineteen sixty six. Both the Soviets and 170 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: the United States have landed things successfully there. And this 171 00:10:17,800 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: all leads up to the big ticket item, the big tent, right, 172 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 1: the big temple, the milestone of lunar exploration, which is 173 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 1: landing a spacecraft with people on it on the lunar 174 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: surface and hopefully getting them back to Earth somehow. Well, 175 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 1: let's not be hasty step at a time. It's kind 176 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 1: of like Ghadaga. You know, how far are you gonna 177 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,920 Speaker 1: get if you spend all if you save all your 178 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: energy for the swim back. This was way before Gatica, 179 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,199 Speaker 1: but it's a good film. All these steps were leading 180 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: to this, and it was a bloody path. It was 181 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,599 Speaker 1: not a situation where it's all angel farts and trumpets 182 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:01,199 Speaker 1: and harps and stuff. Tragedy struck during a test on 183 00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: January nine, sixty seven, a fire swept through the Apollo 184 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: command module, killing three astronauts, and NASA named the test 185 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 1: Apollo one to honor the crew, and then we get 186 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 1: to the man lunar landings. They all take place again 187 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: between nineteen sixty nine and nineteen seventy two. They're all 188 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 1: part of the Apollo program. They all come from the US. 189 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: The most popular one, the one that changed history forever, 190 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:29,760 Speaker 1: was the July nineteen sixty nine moon landing, when Neil 191 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 1: Armstrong and longtime friend of the show Buzz Doctor Rendezvous 192 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: Aldrin land on the lunar surface. It's followed by five 193 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: other crude missions. The astronauts who first touched on the 194 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: Moon's surface have to go way out of the way. 195 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 1: This is this is so dangerous. They have to travel 196 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: three d eighty three thousand kilometers roughly just reach the Moon. 197 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: They have to survive landing, have to survive being on 198 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: the Moon. They have to make it. They have to 199 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 1: like off from the Moon. They have to take off 200 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: from the Moon, which people get, and then they have 201 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: to make it back to Earth, preferably alive. You miss 202 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: a step. They got a rendezvous after taking off from 203 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: the Moon with the other spacecraft that's going around the Moon, 204 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,600 Speaker 1: right Doc successfully then make it back. That's a good point. 205 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: So you can see just from all the all the 206 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:27,839 Speaker 1: dangers involved there why people would be skeptical, especially when 207 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,359 Speaker 1: again the argument is that there are so many problems 208 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: on this planet that we can solve through mundane means. 209 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: You know, why are we Why are we sending just 210 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 1: six missions to the Moon and quitting? Why do we quit? 211 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: So there have been tons and tons of unscrewed landings, 212 00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: which persists in the modern day. And as you can imagine, 213 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: this way less risky, way less expensive. And now we 214 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: get to the question of how we know that we, 215 00:12:57,679 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 1: being humanity, got there some way. There are number of 216 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: ways to prove human beings visited the Moon. First, we 217 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: have pieces of it, literal pieces of it. It's illegal 218 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 1: for us to buy them because we're apparently not cool enough. 219 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,840 Speaker 1: But thanks for writing back nessa but humanity has Have 220 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: you guys ever seen that that movie Apollow eighteen? I 221 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: have not. Is that the same as Apollo Third Team? 222 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: Almost almost the same thing. It's just like five missions 223 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: later five more so so, Apollo seventeen is the last 224 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: man mission to the Moon that occurred. This one is 225 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,839 Speaker 1: about the next one and what they find and uh 226 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,680 Speaker 1: less spoiler alert, there's some naughty moon rocks up there. 227 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 1: That's all I'll say naughty moon or gus so dear 228 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:46,199 Speaker 1: when you describes stuff as naughty moon, moon rocks is 229 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: like a weed thing. Oh it is. It's like some 230 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: really concentrated like weed thing. Well, I hear it in 231 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: rap songs. I only not. Oh well it's not that, 232 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: but but anyway, watch it is it? Yeah, So, astronauts 233 00:14:02,400 --> 00:14:05,640 Speaker 1: working for NUNCA brought back about eight hundred and forty 234 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:10,520 Speaker 1: two pounds of moon rocks rocks from the lunar surface 235 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: for scientists to study. Although it would be great if 236 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,440 Speaker 1: it were eight hundred forty two pounds of marijuana that 237 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: they brought back. The thing about these rocks is the oldest. 238 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 1: The oldest ones are four point five billion years old, 239 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: which makes them two hundred million years older than the 240 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: oldest rocks on Earth. So it's a pretty good argument. 241 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: You could also say, well, maybe they just collected eight 242 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: hundred forty two pounds of meteorites that landed on Earth. 243 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:46,240 Speaker 1: But the moon rocks have characteristics that are unique to them. 244 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,080 Speaker 1: And then there's the there's the other idea, which is 245 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:51,120 Speaker 1: that you can see stuff reflected on the Moon. You 246 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: can see the retroflectors, you can see the flag which 247 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: still there, which is a little ghost on our part, 248 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: But how inspiring anyhow. These are just some of the 249 00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: things that you can see on the Moon and so 250 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: far in twenty nineteen. This is the official narrative, at least, 251 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: the very broad strokes of our species collective quest to 252 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: reach the Moon. But what if there's more to the story? Yeah, 253 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: what if instead of faking the moon landing the way 254 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: so many of us at least have pondered, Um, what 255 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,640 Speaker 1: if there's more to the mission than what the public 256 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:31,800 Speaker 1: had been led to believe. What if we had a 257 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: whole other ulterior motive just by even imagining going up 258 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,640 Speaker 1: to the moon. And what if we did something crazy. 259 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 1: We'll explore that concept when we get back from a 260 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: quick sponsor break years where it gets crazy. We absolutely 261 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: planned more stuff, but we at this point we don't 262 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: mean the human species. We mean the US government. We 263 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: planned a ton of very strange things we did not 264 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:10,520 Speaker 1: tell anyone. We would like to reveal one of those 265 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:15,240 Speaker 1: plans on the air today, something called Project Horizon. All 266 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: the way back in nineteen fifty eight or fifty nine, 267 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: UM ten or so, ten or more years before the 268 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 1: first lunar landing, Uncle Sam was already planning to build 269 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: a permanent lunar base. They listed the requirements like this, 270 00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:34,480 Speaker 1: So here's the quote. Um, the lunar outpost is required 271 00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 1: to develop and protect potential United States interests on the Moon, 272 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,520 Speaker 1: To develop techniques in Moon based surveillance of the Earth 273 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: and space and communications relay and in operations on the 274 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 1: surface of the Moon. To serve as a base for 275 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 1: exploration of the Moon, for future exploration into space, and 276 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:56,160 Speaker 1: for military operations on the Moon if required. And to 277 00:16:56,240 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: support scientific investigation on the Moon. Very very moon based documentary. 278 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: Well yeah, but again, we're talking about having a military, 279 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,960 Speaker 1: like a ready to go military outpost on the Moon 280 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty ye. I mean, that's like a pretty 281 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,280 Speaker 1: big leap. But I guess anytime we're conquering anything, we're 282 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: doing it for military purposes, right, Like why bother sending 283 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,000 Speaker 1: humans to the Moon just so we can have the 284 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: bragging rights if we're not going to actually use it 285 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: to blow people up in some way, right, And I 286 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: guess so. And and just to give you a little 287 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: background on what we're reading from, this is an unclassified 288 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,880 Speaker 1: secret document that we found on History dot Army dot mill. 289 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 1: It's entitled Project Horizon, Volume one, Summary and Supporting Considerations, 290 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,880 Speaker 1: and we we have a little more about the background 291 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,480 Speaker 1: of this project. Yeah, yeah, no, I know a lot 292 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: of us are titilated by the the titling there. Yeah, 293 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: if you are, if you're still awake after hearing that title. Uh. 294 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:58,160 Speaker 1: This was the brainchild of a Lieutenant General Arthur G. Trudeau, 295 00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,119 Speaker 1: who was the U. S. Army's Chief of Research and development. 296 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 1: The project had two components. First, the publicly acknowledged idea, 297 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 1: which is very very star trek, very scarcity economy. That's 298 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: exactly what it is, to boldly go where no one 299 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 1: has gone before, to explore space for the betterment of mankind, 300 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,440 Speaker 1: to develop new and better technology, again for the betterment 301 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: of mankind, right right right, to explore strange new places 302 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:33,359 Speaker 1: right but below the surface. The true purpose of Project 303 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: Horizon and many similar projects in the you know, the 304 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: secret thing, what people said when all the doors were 305 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:47,479 Speaker 1: closed and the monitors were turned off, was to create 306 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:52,080 Speaker 1: a situation where they could have military superiority in the 307 00:18:52,119 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: Cold War, military superiority in space through uh, through nuclear weaponry. 308 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: They weren't going to just put people on the moon. 309 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,920 Speaker 1: They wanted to put nukes there. By permanently occupying the Moon, 310 00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: and more importantly, by getting there before Soviet forces did, 311 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: the US could say we own this now, and the 312 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: Moon and all that it holds or any use that 313 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:20,359 Speaker 1: it has is now ours, and this could be this 314 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,880 Speaker 1: could be useful on a multitude of fronts. First, you 315 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: have in many ways you have the potential for uh 316 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: an obscene level of air superiority. Oh yeah, you can 317 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: also restrict space from you can restrict anyone from accessing space. Yeah, 318 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,960 Speaker 1: that's huge. You've got a moon base on that thing 319 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,120 Speaker 1: that's just looming over the planet at all times. You're 320 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: you can observe anything that the Moon can see. You 321 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: can then see, right, which is a little difficult to 322 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: plan for. Well, I guess not really. You could you 323 00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: could do all of your all of your research somehow, 324 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:06,720 Speaker 1: I don't know, underground or outside of the Moon's view somehow, right, 325 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: Radiation shielding would have to be a big part you 326 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: could uh. You could also, for example, make a tremendous 327 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,119 Speaker 1: amount of money because you would have a monopoly on 328 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 1: lunar travel. And millionaires existed back in the in the 329 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: fifties as well as the sixties, so it's quite conceivable 330 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,000 Speaker 1: that they would pay any price to get to the 331 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,119 Speaker 1: Moon if they were allowed to. The army could also 332 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:35,440 Speaker 1: have massive, massive surveillance capabilities. There would be no such 333 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 1: thing as a secret area of the U. S. S R. 334 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,480 Speaker 1: Unless was buried deep, but even then you could see 335 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: it being constructed. I mean, it just feels like there 336 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't be as much of a space race kind of 337 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:49,719 Speaker 1: situation if there wasn't some military angle at play right right, 338 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: And it seems like any time that the US is like, oh, 339 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 1: we better catch up with the Russians because they don't 340 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:55,400 Speaker 1: want the Russians to have the upper hand, it's less 341 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 1: of a reputation thing, and to me it seems like 342 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: more of like a strategic thing. Well yeah, I mean, 343 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 1: think about this last bit that we were talking about 344 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: the nukes. If you had nukes on the lunar surface, 345 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: so that could be launched, let's say, with a dead 346 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 1: man's hand kind of situation, where if Washington, d C. 347 00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: Gets attacked, if New York gets attacked, if all of 348 00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:18,600 Speaker 1: it gets wiped off the face of the Earth through 349 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:24,760 Speaker 1: Soviet missiles, then there are still lunar nukes coming at you, right, 350 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:27,000 Speaker 1: no matter no matter what you do to the United 351 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,960 Speaker 1: States mainland or any of its other outposts, they're still 352 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 1: will be nukes on the way. They might take a while, 353 00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: but they're headed your direction. That's a I mean, that's 354 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: a very very good point, because even if every single 355 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: part of the US security structure is disabled, they're gonna 356 00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: have a tough time hitting the moon. Right. You can 357 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 1: also vastly improve radio communications, at least for the time. 358 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: So it's clear that we can see this. It's clear 359 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,520 Speaker 1: that it has advantages, and I enjoy what you pointed out. 360 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,119 Speaker 1: No one, which is I would say, not just any 361 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,399 Speaker 1: endeavor like this, but all all wars and expansions are 362 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 1: about controlling resource and access, you know. So it's not 363 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:13,919 Speaker 1: out of the goodness of their hearts that they planned this. 364 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: The Pentagon said, Okay, let's let's think about this, let's 365 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,639 Speaker 1: figure it out. So they turned Project Horizon over to 366 00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: one of the only people they felt qualified to study 367 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,719 Speaker 1: its feasibility. Uh person will be familiar to many of 368 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: our longtime listeners today, that is Werner von Braun. Yeah, 369 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:38,359 Speaker 1: so the Pentagon um turned Project Horizon over to Verner 370 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: von Braun, and at this point he was the head 371 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: of the U. S. Army Ballistic Missile Agency or ABMA. 372 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,199 Speaker 1: Personal favorite, it's almost abba. Yeah, that's neither here nor 373 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:53,720 Speaker 1: there um. But von bron Um was able to assign 374 00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: the study to one of his German colleagues, who also 375 00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: had been brought to the United States as part of 376 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: Operation paper Clip, which we've discussed on the show. I 377 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: think it's one of your personal favorites, man, I'm not mistaken. 378 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 1: I I hopefully it's a show favorite because it's just 379 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,680 Speaker 1: one of those weird things in history that occurred that 380 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: we don't like to think about. Really happened. Quick little summary, Germany's. 381 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:22,359 Speaker 1: One of Germany's most important and least known at the 382 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,639 Speaker 1: time popular exports post World War Two was former Nazi scientists. 383 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: Yeah minds, great minds that put together the technology that 384 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 1: was used to overcome most of the rest of the 385 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,680 Speaker 1: world's military. The US got them, in Russia got them too. 386 00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: They were also the Cold War had already begun, so 387 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 1: Operation paper Clip was the secret program to spirit these 388 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,479 Speaker 1: scientists away without the US public learning about it and whenever. 389 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: Ron Brown was one of those men, and one of 390 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 1: his man his top man for the job was a 391 00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: man by the name of hinz Hammon Coel and over 392 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,040 Speaker 1: the next nine days, uh this gentleman divided up to 393 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: projects in the pieces and assign each part to a 394 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,480 Speaker 1: military department that was most suited, most well suited to 395 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,680 Speaker 1: study it. The ABMA would evaluate the type of rockets 396 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,840 Speaker 1: and space vehicles that would be required, and then the 397 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: Signal Corps would study the radio and communications needs, and 398 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: the core of engineers would propose the best methods for constructing, maintaining, 399 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: and expanding a habitable outpost on said moon. And see 400 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 1: their compartmentalizing here. They're very intelligent and how they're doing this. 401 00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,200 Speaker 1: None of the components no necessarily exactly what the others 402 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:37,439 Speaker 1: are doing. There's um Bob Blazar, of all people that 403 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,280 Speaker 1: we've discussed on this show before, a guy who purportedly 404 00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 1: worked at Area fifty one or near Area fifty one. 405 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: I think it's site for something like that, that's near 406 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: Area fifty one. He recently went on the Joe Rogan Show, 407 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: and he was discussing particularly this the compartmentalization of studying 408 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: something like this, how you'll get basically a title kind 409 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 1: of what we what we see when we look in 410 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:03,679 Speaker 1: the DARPA website. Um, you get a title of a 411 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 1: project in a one paragraph that tells you what that 412 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: thing is, so you'll know that. Okay, someone over here 413 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: in this project is studying the propulsion system. Somebody over 414 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,520 Speaker 1: here is studying aerodynamics. You know part of this if 415 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: you're gonna, let's say, create a flying saucer, um in 416 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:28,640 Speaker 1: this case, uh col col He's he's doing this exact 417 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:32,520 Speaker 1: thing with building a moon base, right right. Uh. And 418 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: he was an aeronautical engineer who made the first forays 419 00:25:37,760 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 1: into the design of the rocket that we now know 420 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,520 Speaker 1: as the Saturn one. You cannot buy your own Saturn 421 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: one again, thanks for writing back. NASA's just curious. But 422 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: you can buy a top notch lego model based on it. 423 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:58,200 Speaker 1: And the company Saturn did make some fine vehicles for 424 00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:00,679 Speaker 1: a while. They're funny you mentioned that. Yeah, I direct 425 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 1: two of them. Uh, it's true. They will keep you alive. 426 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: But but back to the horizons. So the final report, 427 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: which was titled Project Rise in U S. Army Study 428 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: for the Establishment of a Lunar Military Post, was given 429 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: to the Pentagon in June in two volumes. The first 430 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,240 Speaker 1: was a summary that said them presented the main conclusions 431 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,280 Speaker 1: of what we want to do. The high level thing, right, 432 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: the one the exacts would read, and the second gives 433 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,959 Speaker 1: a longer and more detailed analysis. And we'll tell you 434 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: what was in this report after a word from our sponsors. Okay, 435 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 1: so first things first, this is written during the Cold War. 436 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:53,439 Speaker 1: This top secret. If you told most of the world, Hi, 437 00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 1: we're gonna take over the Moon. We're gonna put nuclear 438 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: weapons on it. Uh, you know, U s A U 439 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:04,399 Speaker 1: s A, the world would not react well. So they 440 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: emphasize the secrecy, but also they emphasized the grave nature 441 00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: of the problem. This is very um. This is phrased 442 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: as a inevitable, indeed, the only path to salvation for 443 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: the United States or two continued stability. And they say 444 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: the political implications of our failure to be first in 445 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: space are a matter of public record. This failure has 446 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: reflected adversely on United States scientific and political leadership. To 447 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 1: some extent. We have recovered the loss. However, once having 448 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: been second best in the eyes of the world's population, 449 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:43,440 Speaker 1: we are not now in a position to afford being 450 00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,160 Speaker 1: second on any other major step in space. The results 451 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: of failure to first place man on an extra terrestrial 452 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,440 Speaker 1: base will raise grave political questions and at the same 453 00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 1: time lower US prestige and influence. There you go, I 454 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: imagine um a general perhaps pacing back and forth again 455 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,359 Speaker 1: in a giant room filled with with officials and scientists 456 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: and other military personnel, just giving that speech. I get 457 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,560 Speaker 1: a very doctor strange love vibe. Yeah, how did this 458 00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:20,440 Speaker 1: because this sort of answers the question that I posed originally, 459 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: which is, why would you focus on the Moon when 460 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,240 Speaker 1: there's so many things we could fix here on Earth? 461 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 1: And they've they've changed the nature of the argument to 462 00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: say that if we want to fix anything on Earth, 463 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 1: we have to for the respect, you know, we have 464 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 1: to thank you, thank you for the respect. We have 465 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: to we have to get to the Moon. We've been 466 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: number two on several of these other big things, the 467 00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,600 Speaker 1: first satellite, the first successful you know, lunar orbiting, first 468 00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: person in space to return. Yeah, I mean, they're like, guys, 469 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: we need that base now, and who knows how many 470 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,240 Speaker 1: other cosmonauts were just the first people in space who 471 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 1: didn't make it back. Right, So then the report turns 472 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: to the question whether a crude moon base with actual 473 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: people on it is something that we can afford and 474 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: something that we could actually do. Yeah, So if money 475 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: is no object, can we think our way around this? 476 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: If money is an object, the conversation always turns to 477 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 1: it eventually. Then how much money is too much? How 478 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: much is just enough? Well? Yeah, the first when you're 479 00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: thinking about something as high level and conceptual is this, 480 00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: The first thing you do is, well, if we were 481 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,720 Speaker 1: going to use everything that's available to us right now, 482 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: all the technology, how much would it cost? Right, that's 483 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,440 Speaker 1: the that's one of the major things. How much would 484 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 1: it cost using this stuff? And would that make sense 485 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 1: for us? It made the assumption, like when it was 486 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: first starting out this Project Horizon, that they would be 487 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 1: able to use existing technology to do everything, at least 488 00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: in the beginning. Yes, in the beginning. That's that's where 489 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: everything seems so great, you know, in the beginning. But 490 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: but here's the thing. They're already working on some technology 491 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: that wasn't currently available. It was basically the R and 492 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 1: D side of what we imagine propulsion will be. Like 493 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:23,720 Speaker 1: the dude coal coal, coal, whatever, whoever is homing uh 494 00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 1: he was. He was working on a liquid hydrogen rocket, 495 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: a liquid hydrogen fueled rocket that could potentially get us 496 00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: there and um, and again they're going back to this 497 00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: idea that we have to make the entire thing modular, 498 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: starting out really small. So the first time we land 499 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: there on the moon and we're gonna start an outpost, 500 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: we put a tiny little thing down there that's not 501 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: going to be fully functional. Essentially, it's just gonna be 502 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 1: a little outpost um that we're going to continue to 503 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: build each time we go back. We're not just going 504 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: to get there and plant a base on the moon. 505 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: And we're also not going to throw anything away. If 506 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: we can help it, it will all eventually become a 507 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,360 Speaker 1: piece of this outpost. Right. So the idea here is 508 00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: that they could start getting their collective ducks in a 509 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: row in nineteen sixty four, and they even thought about 510 00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 1: how this would be designed. The basic building block for 511 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: the outpost would be these metal cylindrical tanks three meters 512 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: or ten feet in diameter and twenty ft or six 513 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: point one long, and two nuclear reactors would also be 514 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:36,360 Speaker 1: built there. They're building nuclear well, they're transporting nuclear reactors. 515 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: They have to. They're it's weird they're not building It 516 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: feels like legos to me, like nuclear reactor parts that 517 00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: you kind of put into place, right, I kea style assembly. 518 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 1: But did you ever play that Let's think about it 519 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 1: this way. Did you ever play that game where you 520 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:56,479 Speaker 1: had to have a relay with a egg in a spoon? 521 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,400 Speaker 1: I had never deal with it. That's a brutal creation. 522 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,480 Speaker 1: When you imagine running, either one will work mouth or 523 00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: the spoon. Imagine holding the spoon in your mouth, is 524 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: what I meant. Oh okay, yeah, yeah, Well either way, 525 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,080 Speaker 1: imagine imagine that egg is a nuclear bomb, and imagine 526 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 1: the run is running from Earth to the Moon. That's insane, 527 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,760 Speaker 1: that's what That's what they were proposing. And then they're again, 528 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,000 Speaker 1: it's so crazy to me. It's not even getting to 529 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: the moon. It's the last jump from the orbit of 530 00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 1: the Moon to the surface of the moon with it 531 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 1: with a nuke, or in nuclear at least nuclear material 532 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: material that is radioactive in that way. Right. So the 533 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: idea was, Okay, we'll figure out the details. Well, we'll 534 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: take these nuclear reactors. They'll provide shielding and power for 535 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,000 Speaker 1: the operation of the initial quarters, and the equipment we 536 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: used to make the permanent facility will use every empty 537 00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:03,640 Speaker 1: cargo or propelling contain inner to store more supplies life essentials, 538 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: and of course weapons. Don't tell anyone you gotta have 539 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,600 Speaker 1: those space guns. You gotta have your space guns. Yeah, 540 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,160 Speaker 1: I mean, honestly, what they didn't have lasers, you know, 541 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: they was they were really developing guns they could fire 542 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,640 Speaker 1: in space. As we learned in another episode, there was 543 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: a pistol right on board with the with the Apollo program. Yeah, 544 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: there was a pistol with the Apollo program with the lander, yes, right, 545 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: just in case. Yeah, and I think cosmonauts had something 546 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,480 Speaker 1: like that too, if they landed in territory where they 547 00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 1: might be attacked by wildlife. Oh. So it was really 548 00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 1: about coming back to Earth. It's about coming back. It 549 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,280 Speaker 1: was about coming back. But they knew they would have 550 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: to have some kind of weapon, if not a projectile weapon, 551 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: they would have to invent's something that's a big wink 552 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 1: there by the way, just for me, that was in 553 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,760 Speaker 1: case they were aliens. I'm just saying, yes, Yes, they 554 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: had two types of surface vehicles. One was lifting, digging, scraping, 555 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,080 Speaker 1: because naturally you would end up mining, right for long 556 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 1: term viability, in other words, for extended distance trips, a 557 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: little lunar road trip, you know, hauling reconnaissance rescue um, 558 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 1: maybe a great sound system who knows, just playing music 559 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 1: across the whole of the moon. And they had they 560 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: had this mapped out in phases. As you said, at 561 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:29,320 Speaker 1: the conclusion of the construction phase, the original camp quarters 562 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:35,319 Speaker 1: would be converted into laboratory and the basic outpost just 563 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,720 Speaker 1: to get the basic stuff that we've already talked about, 564 00:34:38,040 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 1: would need about a hundred and fifty launches, specifically loose 565 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 1: Saturn rockets. A hundred and fifty launches didn't quite get there. Yeah, 566 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,200 Speaker 1: that's so many, and we're you know, we were talking 567 00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: with Marshall on our Mars episode Marshall Brain Yes, about 568 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 1: how many trips it would essentially take to get all 569 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,600 Speaker 1: the equipment and per Snell out there, and it was 570 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: a lot. But the simple proposition of saying, we need 571 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:08,719 Speaker 1: to launch rockets that cost x amount of dollars a 572 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty times in order to establish this moon base, 573 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:19,360 Speaker 1: and then also another sixty four launches every year to 574 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,840 Speaker 1: keep it supplied and to rotate crew members back and forth. 575 00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,160 Speaker 1: So the idea was that a perfect world that people 576 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: wouldn't be spending their entire lives keeping nuclear weapons at 577 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,960 Speaker 1: the ready on the Moon. Yeah, yikes. See that's the 578 00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:41,040 Speaker 1: tenuous script. Though we managed as a species to officially 579 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:47,239 Speaker 1: do this kind of trip only six times ever with 580 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: a tiny crew, and in the post World War two 581 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: economic boom of the US getting people to the moon. Now, 582 00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: like what happens if you're on the Moon and nuclear 583 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 1: war break out in the US or you know, in 584 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: the world entire right, what do you do? I guess 585 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: you start counting how many days or months worth of 586 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: food you have left. Yeah, well, in this case, you're 587 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,920 Speaker 1: talking about ten to twenty personnel that they wanted to 588 00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: have in this base at any time, and that's a minimum. 589 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: They wanted a minimum of ten to twenty personnel to 590 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:27,200 Speaker 1: run this thing. Um, I don't know. They also started 591 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,879 Speaker 1: game planning how to survive on the ground attacks from 592 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: Soviet forces they want. Yeah, they wanted to surround this 593 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 1: thing with claymore minds that would poke holes and pressure suits. Yeah, 594 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 1: that sounds scary. They also wanted to have they give 595 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 1: the inhabitants small sub kiloton nuclear weapons similar to things 596 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: that were used in anti tank weapons called Davy crocketts, 597 00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: that were already existed. They were already in play, and 598 00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 1: the idea was that they could use these to blow 599 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,520 Speaker 1: up Soviet moon tanks. Yeah, so they had anti personnel 600 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: tactics to defend, also anti vehicle tactics, and you know, 601 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:11,840 Speaker 1: they're they're really again like it's this um it's this 602 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:17,400 Speaker 1: conceptual thinking of war on the moon. That's really what 603 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: they're imagining. They're using it for, you know, or at 604 00:37:20,560 --> 00:37:24,319 Speaker 1: least they're imagining it as a as a weapon in itself, 605 00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 1: this moon base, but as well as treating it like 606 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,840 Speaker 1: a military outpost. It's so odd to me, but I 607 00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 1: guess it makes complete sense. And of course speculation runs 608 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 1: right with this. They're planning anti personnel weaponry and they 609 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: say it's for the Soviet army, but the Soviet Army, 610 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: as far as they know, doesn't have the technology to 611 00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:47,240 Speaker 1: do this. So going back to your question, Matt, who 612 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,279 Speaker 1: are they really planning to defend themselves against. It's a 613 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:55,440 Speaker 1: great unknown. So those moon rocks. I have sound gardens. 614 00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,680 Speaker 1: The entire time I was working in I said sound gardens, 615 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: spoon Man, SYC may have O's moon Man, and I 616 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,360 Speaker 1: think it would be a worthwhile parody. Is that spoon 617 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:15,439 Speaker 1: man with your spoon Yep? Yet yet and we're suing. No, No, 618 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: I'll write the lyrics as fair uses as a parody 619 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:21,879 Speaker 1: if we write the whole thing, which I'm fine doing. Uh. 620 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:25,240 Speaker 1: The so let's talk Turkey. Let's talk space Turkey, nuclear 621 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: space Turkey. How much did this? How much would this cost? Actually, so, 622 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,000 Speaker 1: the total cost for the basic structure of the study 623 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,000 Speaker 1: concluded would run in the neighborhood of six billion dollars. 624 00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: That's in modern dollars, roughly seven d mill per year. On. 625 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,319 Speaker 1: The study also made a note that this was not 626 00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,640 Speaker 1: much more than the US was already spending on its 627 00:38:46,680 --> 00:38:49,680 Speaker 1: nuclear missiles program. So it's a win win, And I'm 628 00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,160 Speaker 1: calling bs on those calculated numbers from I think it's 629 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,480 Speaker 1: easily three or four times that easily easily. I mean, 630 00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:02,200 Speaker 1: you get private companies involved. It's this, it's tail as 631 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: old as time. You know, this is the land of 632 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:09,719 Speaker 1: three hammers. Yeah, how wait, what was the estimate? I know, 633 00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,640 Speaker 1: I figured you might know this, at least the ballpark 634 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,239 Speaker 1: estimate of building the wall like that that whole thing. 635 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,840 Speaker 1: I think it was in the like tens of billions 636 00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,360 Speaker 1: of dollars, right like forty It was something crazy to 637 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:25,319 Speaker 1: witch wall the border wall. Um During the election there 638 00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,600 Speaker 1: there were a bunch of estimates that occurred back around 639 00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 1: around around that time. And if you're just imagining building 640 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:35,440 Speaker 1: essentially concrete and rebar structure or you know, whatever material 641 00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: is on Earth, now you're going to build a structure 642 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:45,560 Speaker 1: on the Moon, even with today's rocket technology. Um wow. 643 00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: So here's the question, did they really build it? They 644 00:39:51,719 --> 00:39:54,759 Speaker 1: be in the US? Is that the stuff they don't 645 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:57,520 Speaker 1: want you to know? In the end, it looks like 646 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: the same international polity tis that inspired Project to Rise 647 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:07,360 Speaker 1: and also led to its early death. Neither President Eisenhower 648 00:40:07,480 --> 00:40:11,400 Speaker 1: nor Soviet Premier Khrushchev wanted to spend tons and tons 649 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: of money for a new arms race and outer space, 650 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: where they were already so busy waging multiple proxy wars 651 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:23,760 Speaker 1: on Earth. So they started negotiating treaties and agreements, reaching 652 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 1: the reaching the consensus that stands today, at least officially, 653 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,360 Speaker 1: which is there shall be no nuclear weapons in space. 654 00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:37,520 Speaker 1: No nation can claim a celestial body as its national territory. 655 00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: We will see how long that holds. We'll see how 656 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: long that is the case. As far as we know now, 657 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,000 Speaker 1: there is no permanent base, no permanent crude base on 658 00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:53,160 Speaker 1: the lunar surface. Again, as far as we know, Horizon 659 00:40:53,239 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: never progressed past the feasibility stage. Eisenhower rejected it, and 660 00:40:59,360 --> 00:41:03,520 Speaker 1: the primary responsibility for America Space program was transferred to NASA, 661 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: which is of course a civilian agency. While there may 662 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,680 Speaker 1: not be any current proof of a permanent nuclear base today, 663 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:16,799 Speaker 1: recently leaked documents reveal that, no matter what was said 664 00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:21,480 Speaker 1: at the time, the US government Uncle Sam never ever 665 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,759 Speaker 1: stopped thinking about building a Moon base. Secretly, when the 666 00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:30,520 Speaker 1: microphones are off and and things are closed at the 667 00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,880 Speaker 1: Pentagon and people are just hanging out secretly, the US 668 00:41:35,960 --> 00:41:40,120 Speaker 1: still very much wants to build a base on the Moon, 669 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:44,319 Speaker 1: and furthermore, is planning to do so. They're worried now 670 00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:47,920 Speaker 1: that new players have entered the game, and that's what 671 00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:54,240 Speaker 1: brings us to a little thing called Project Artemis, right, yes, 672 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,560 Speaker 1: or just Artemis. Let's just go Artemis. So the Greek 673 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: god Apollo, for whom NASA's Apollo program was named Apollo, 674 00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 1: had a twin sister named Artemis, and NASA's pitch on 675 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: this is that this will be the banner under which 676 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: humans returned to the Moon. The Artemis program was unveiled 677 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,640 Speaker 1: by NASA in mid May, and the ideas that will 678 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 1: put astronauts on the lunar surface in four Preparations have 679 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:29,480 Speaker 1: already begun, but the problem is we don't know how 680 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,759 Speaker 1: how certain how we don't know how certain it is 681 00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,440 Speaker 1: that this will actually come to pass. So NASA is 682 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,000 Speaker 1: setting the maiden flight of its space launch system for 683 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:44,920 Speaker 1: next year twenties. We record this. It's a giant booster, 684 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,400 Speaker 1: it's taller than a thirty story building. It'll blast a 685 00:42:48,440 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: crew capsule called a Ryan on an unscrewed mission to 686 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,400 Speaker 1: the Moon and back. They're doing a dry run, and 687 00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:58,120 Speaker 1: then in they will have a test with up the 688 00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,360 Speaker 1: four astronauts, and then after that they'll construct a small 689 00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,319 Speaker 1: space station orbiting around the Moon, and then they'll dock 690 00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: a lunar lander in, assuming the world hasn't burned down 691 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 1: by then, and then that same year in the four 692 00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,839 Speaker 1: astronauts fly in the Ryan capsule to the station, get 693 00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,840 Speaker 1: on board the lander, descend to the lunar surface, and 694 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:23,600 Speaker 1: then for the next three three to four years they 695 00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: continue to do that, and then they're really building a base. 696 00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,400 Speaker 1: And one of the biggest problems, the issues as tends 697 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 1: to happen with space exploration. And I would say with 698 00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 1: NASA budgets in general, is this this thing that we 699 00:43:38,239 --> 00:43:40,520 Speaker 1: call sticker shock. It's you know, we have all these 700 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 1: aspirations to do these incredible things, but the moment that 701 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 1: we realize exactly how much it's gonna cost, everybody in 702 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: especially Congress because you've got elected officials, you know, in 703 00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,239 Speaker 1: the House of Representatives, the Senate there, they see that 704 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,799 Speaker 1: kind of thing and they think, well, how how are 705 00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,840 Speaker 1: we going to convince the American people that this is 706 00:44:00,280 --> 00:44:03,440 Speaker 1: worth it? Well, even run into that with the podcasts sometimes, 707 00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,680 Speaker 1: you know, certainly with everything because it is you really 708 00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: have to take it into consideration. In this case, I 709 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: guess the biggest pro con thing that you put up 710 00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:17,200 Speaker 1: there is if it does cost this much, we have 711 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:21,480 Speaker 1: to be at least achieving something that is worthwhile for us, 712 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,320 Speaker 1: both as investors and as a species. And uh, sometimes 713 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,120 Speaker 1: it's tough to see that, right. And then there's that 714 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:34,279 Speaker 1: argument about private versus public ability or infrastructure. Right. We 715 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 1: know that there are a lot of private companies who 716 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,719 Speaker 1: have taken up the flag of state supported space exploration 717 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,200 Speaker 1: agencies and they're making they're making some serious progress, but 718 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,359 Speaker 1: do they have enough heft to get to the moon. Yeah, 719 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:53,480 Speaker 1: you know, that's that's the tough one, it really is. 720 00:44:53,520 --> 00:44:55,040 Speaker 1: And let's just get back to that price that we 721 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,359 Speaker 1: talked about with Project Horizon, that initial estimate from eight 722 00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:04,040 Speaker 1: saying that would cost in what is nowadays now dollars, 723 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,800 Speaker 1: the entire program was going to cost around six billion 724 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,640 Speaker 1: dollars roughly seven million a year throughout the life of 725 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 1: the project. There's no way, but that was the estimate, right. 726 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: So we're looking at an Ours Technica article where they're 727 00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: they're citing sources that have told them that the internal 728 00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:25,319 Speaker 1: projected cost is six to eight billion dollars per year 729 00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:29,720 Speaker 1: rather rather than per the life. Because we're talking about 730 00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:35,920 Speaker 1: a project that spans from today two nineteen until um. 731 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,279 Speaker 1: That's a lot of money. And uh, that's on top 732 00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:42,319 Speaker 1: of the already existing budget that NASA works with, which 733 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: is twenty billion dollars per year, right right, which again 734 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,560 Speaker 1: they have problems getting funding for that a lot of 735 00:45:50,560 --> 00:45:53,160 Speaker 1: the time. So let's be clear about that. According to 736 00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,560 Speaker 1: the internal estimates, the cost of the Arguments project is 737 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,840 Speaker 1: not six to eight billion a year, it's twenty six 738 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,600 Speaker 1: to twenty eight billion a year, which is which is 739 00:46:02,680 --> 00:46:07,279 Speaker 1: because of the NASA budget, which is yeah, so so 740 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,120 Speaker 1: it's it's sticker shock for sure. The question is if 741 00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:16,080 Speaker 1: it's worth it. If there is a possibility of building 742 00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:22,680 Speaker 1: a sustainable lunar colony of any sort, then there is 743 00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: there's literally no price you can put on it. There 744 00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:30,960 Speaker 1: is no way to equate in numbers and no more 745 00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,280 Speaker 1: capitalistic people hate this idea that some things can't be bought, 746 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,399 Speaker 1: but there is no way to equate with numbers the 747 00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:43,160 Speaker 1: value of having a second franchise of humanity just in case, 748 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:48,560 Speaker 1: just in case, or in many cases, but arguably just 749 00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,319 Speaker 1: before the old house burns down, you know what I mean. 750 00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:54,760 Speaker 1: And I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that Earth 751 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,640 Speaker 1: is doomed, but I am saying it is good to 752 00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:02,120 Speaker 1: have some insurance. We're not a real great job at 753 00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,200 Speaker 1: making sure we try and keep everything running swell, that's true. 754 00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:12,400 Speaker 1: We're also we're we're also pretty in the dark still 755 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:18,480 Speaker 1: about how people would how a human population will reproduce 756 00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: and grow in a lunar environment. The gravity is so 757 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,319 Speaker 1: much lower, you're exposed to a ton of radiation. We 758 00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:32,840 Speaker 1: don't know. We've never seen a child created and born 759 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 1: on the moon. There are a lot of unknowns, and 760 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,560 Speaker 1: twenty six to twenty eight billion dollars is is a 761 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,680 Speaker 1: high price to pay for For ex I mean, what 762 00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,400 Speaker 1: if we what if we do all this? What if 763 00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,080 Speaker 1: our species does all this and it turns out that 764 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:51,839 Speaker 1: for one unforeseen reason or another, it is completely impossible 765 00:47:51,880 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: for people to live on the moon. Can we just, um, 766 00:47:56,880 --> 00:48:00,439 Speaker 1: just to that point, been of how long people would 767 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,640 Speaker 1: need to be on the Moon to really understand having 768 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,560 Speaker 1: a child there, you know, having generations who live on 769 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: the Moon for at least an extended period of time. 770 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:12,200 Speaker 1: Let's just talk about the length that the crew of 771 00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: Apollo seventeen, the final Apollo mission, actually stayed on the 772 00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:21,000 Speaker 1: Moon at one time. How long was it seventy four hours, 773 00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:25,320 Speaker 1: fifty nine minutes, thirty eight seconds. That is the longest 774 00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,680 Speaker 1: amount of time anyone has spent on the Moon. So 775 00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:32,960 Speaker 1: we're basing it, That's what we're basing it on a 776 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: crazy weekend on the Moon. It's like when someone goes 777 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:39,600 Speaker 1: to Las Vegas for a weekend and they say, I 778 00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,279 Speaker 1: love it here, I want to live here. Yeah, well, 779 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:45,240 Speaker 1: I albeit that's with suits and technology from late sixties 780 00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:50,360 Speaker 1: and early seventies, but still, um, I don't know. Is 781 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:53,640 Speaker 1: the human body how well is it gonna do for 782 00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:56,080 Speaker 1: months at a time if you've got a you know, 783 00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,200 Speaker 1: a stint on the moon. The human body is custom 784 00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:02,080 Speaker 1: made for very specific environment. That's a problem. And when 785 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,920 Speaker 1: you first said that was with the suits and technologies 786 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,240 Speaker 1: at the time, I thought we were still talking about Vegas. 787 00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,640 Speaker 1: Got we've been through this before, I think. But you 788 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,520 Speaker 1: two would would both be game for a moon stint, right, Yes, 789 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:19,320 Speaker 1: I it's the calculus is a little different now that 790 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: I have wife and son. But I think if he 791 00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,200 Speaker 1: was a game, my wife was game, we would do 792 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,279 Speaker 1: a family lunar mission a moon stint. Yeah, you have 793 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:35,160 Speaker 1: the first moon Boy moon Boy, writer, you're gonna do this. 794 00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,080 Speaker 1: Moon Boy is also an obscure Marvel Comics character, so 795 00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:43,920 Speaker 1: oh tm writer, Sorry, we can't use that a different one. 796 00:49:44,480 --> 00:49:48,000 Speaker 1: He can be a little moon rock. That's not bad. 797 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:51,480 Speaker 1: Don alright, cool. I don't know that i'd do it 798 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:53,680 Speaker 1: just for fun. If we were living in sort of 799 00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:56,960 Speaker 1: a scorched earth poke post apocalyptic situation, I think I 800 00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,239 Speaker 1: would give it a go, But I don't think I 801 00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:01,480 Speaker 1: would just do it, you know, for kicks. I hear 802 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,439 Speaker 1: you absolutely let us know what you would do. Also, 803 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,840 Speaker 1: let us know whether you think there is any possibility 804 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:13,400 Speaker 1: of ACE a secret, actual lunar base existing now, and 805 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,400 Speaker 1: if so, why I could see maybe a secret an 806 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,319 Speaker 1: crude thing, you know what I mean, one that is 807 00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:24,160 Speaker 1: not populard with human beings. But if you think there's 808 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:27,040 Speaker 1: one that is living creatures on it and they don't 809 00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 1: have to be human, we'd love to hear more, and 810 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,160 Speaker 1: we'd love to hear your your exploration of why. You 811 00:50:32,200 --> 00:50:35,560 Speaker 1: can tell us by finding us on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter. 812 00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: You can also, as we mentioned at the top of 813 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: the show, call us directly. We are one eight three 814 00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:45,279 Speaker 1: three st d w y t K. That was a 815 00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,120 Speaker 1: little odd. We put some put some tonality to it, 816 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:49,560 Speaker 1: but I kind of enjoyed it. I've been adding the 817 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:53,200 Speaker 1: tonality lately. Okay. It's sort of a secret like subcarrier 818 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: kind of thing. It's got like subliminal messages on them. Dope, Hey, 819 00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,000 Speaker 1: find us on Instagram where we're conspiracy stuff show. That's right. 820 00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,560 Speaker 1: You can find me on Instagram individually at how Now 821 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,839 Speaker 1: Noel Brown, if you so choose, you can find me 822 00:51:05,880 --> 00:51:09,200 Speaker 1: getting kicked into and out of various places at Ben Bowling. 823 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna plug the new shows um Monster Presents 824 00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,520 Speaker 1: Insomniac as well as Noble Blood because those are two 825 00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,440 Speaker 1: brand new shows, rather than my Instagram because I don't 826 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,240 Speaker 1: have one. Sorry, guys, congratulations Matt on those new shows. 827 00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:28,440 Speaker 1: By the way, Hey, thanks, I did minimal things, but 828 00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:30,799 Speaker 1: I made it happen. We're gonna know what they call 829 00:51:30,840 --> 00:51:34,279 Speaker 1: a facilitator, Matt. That's right, we're gonna have our own 830 00:51:34,320 --> 00:51:37,799 Speaker 1: Scott Benjamin making a return appearance on stuff they don't 831 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:41,160 Speaker 1: want you to know, long, long, long time friends of 832 00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,200 Speaker 1: the show. One of the few people has been working 833 00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:45,359 Speaker 1: year as long as we have. That's right. He's gonna 834 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,960 Speaker 1: come on and tell us all about Monster Presents in Zomniac, 835 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,040 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be fascinating and you're gonna find out, 836 00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,200 Speaker 1: hopefully a little bit more about the three of us 837 00:51:55,480 --> 00:52:00,680 Speaker 1: and how we sleep. Is that weird? Maybe? Maybe it's weird? 838 00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,399 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Do you think we'll get anything out of you? Ben? 839 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:07,480 Speaker 1: So thank you so much as always to call Michig 840 00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,279 Speaker 1: controlled decond and if you are like many of our 841 00:52:11,320 --> 00:52:14,120 Speaker 1: fellow listeners saying, guys, have a great story I want 842 00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:16,440 Speaker 1: to tell you or I have experienced with NASA, or 843 00:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,319 Speaker 1: I have experience with some other space program and I've 844 00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:21,719 Speaker 1: got some real stuff they don't want you to know. 845 00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:25,319 Speaker 1: But I hate social media and I hate phones. Why 846 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:27,640 Speaker 1: would I call someone on the phone. Well, we have 847 00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,400 Speaker 1: some good news for you. You can still contact us 848 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,160 Speaker 1: with a good old fashioned email. We are conspiracy at 849 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:54,279 Speaker 1: iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want you to 850 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,080 Speaker 1: Know is a production of I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. 851 00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 852 00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,480 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 853 00:53:02,480 --> 00:53:03,160 Speaker 1: favorite shows.