WEBVTT - TechStuff Classic: TechStuff Conjures Up Brian Brushwood 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.160 Get in touch with technology with tech Stuff from how 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:14.080 stuff works dot com. Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:17.480 I'm your host, Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:19.680 How Stuff Works, and I heart radio and I love 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.680 of all things tech. And you are about to listen 0:00:22.840 --> 0:00:27.720 to a classic interview episode of tech Stuff that was 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:32.800 originally published on April twenty, two thousand twelve. In this interview, 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.720 we get to talk to one of my friends, Brian Brushwood. 0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:42.800 Professional magician, techno wizard, you might say, and overall rogue. 0:00:43.240 --> 0:00:47.760 The guy has gone on to do numerous super cool things, 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.800 including appearing on Penn and Teller Show and lots of 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:55.400 other really awesome stuff. And this was a chance for 0:00:55.560 --> 0:01:00.000 us to chat with him way back in And uh, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.040 it's great to hear him again because I don't I 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:04.160 don't run into him very much. He lives out in Texas, 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:06.399 so I don't get a chance to see him very frequently. 0:01:06.920 --> 0:01:11.920 But enjoy this episode of tech Stuff conjures up Brian Brushwood. Brian, 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:15.080 thank you so much for being on our show. Dude, 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:16.720 thank you so much for having me And we know 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:18.600 we've talked about this for months. I'm glad we finally 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:21.400 made it happen. Yeah, Brushwood and I are we're like 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:27.520 BFFs from way back. Yeah, we're rooms. That's true. That's true. 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:32.520 And so yeah, Brushwood is a he's he's he's an amazing, 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.319 amazing kind of guy. One of the nicest guys you 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:38.280 guys could ever meet. I really do mean that, Mr Brushwood. 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:42.199 You gotta ruin my reputations about this, alright. He's he's 0:01:42.240 --> 0:01:46.000 also a complete jerk. No. Now, so we wanted to 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.480 talk today about lots of different topics. But before we 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:53.320 get started, in your own words, can we get sort 0:01:53.360 --> 0:01:57.480 of a kind of a minute long or two minute 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.800 long bio of who you are? How got interested in 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.040 stage magic and technology and all that kind of good stuff. Sure, man, 0:02:04.120 --> 0:02:06.440 it's really weird. I'm in a transition phase right now 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:08.760 because if you'd asked me five years ago, the answer 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:10.720 would have been dead simple. I would have told you 0:02:10.800 --> 0:02:14.440 I am a touring stage magician who tours colleges doing 0:02:14.480 --> 0:02:17.600 a punk rock magic show with fire eating escapes, mind reading. 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:19.720 I stick a nail and one eye pops out, the 0:02:19.760 --> 0:02:22.560 other eye, I break thirty pound breaks over my head. Uh. 0:02:22.560 --> 0:02:24.840 And it was And that's that's all I did. But 0:02:24.919 --> 0:02:28.320 as I've transitioned, we launched Scam School. I pitched it 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:31.959 five years ago right around this time, and now it's 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.160 four years strong, two twenty episodes, and now I'm hosting 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.840 four other podcasts as well, but I'm still doing the 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:41.000 live stage shows. So my identity, my identity is kind 0:02:41.040 --> 0:02:42.960 of in transition right now as I as I do 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:45.640 more performing in front of the camera instead of in 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:49.520 front of audiences. And now it's even more complicated since uh, 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:52.679 we just launched the Scam School Book, which hit number 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.080 one in Canada number three in the US on the 0:02:55.120 --> 0:02:57.640 iTunes store on the day of launch. So now I 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.800 guess throw author in the mix as well. How about that? 0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:04.760 Huge props to you and that's awesome and uh, you're 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.760 also the Scam School Show has also been featured on 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:11.280 Discovery dot Com. Yeah, they apparently, and it was the 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:14.320 awesomest thing because I guess Discovery dot Com had been 0:03:14.320 --> 0:03:16.760 talking with Revision three and they were talking about some 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.600 kind of partnership for a while, but since nothing was confirmed, 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.359 nobody at Revision three really told me because you know, 0:03:22.440 --> 0:03:23.600 it's like they didn't want to tell me if there 0:03:23.639 --> 0:03:26.360 was nothing to tell, but I guess within minutes of 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:29.560 the deal being finalized, Discovery dot Com through the first 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:32.280 episode up under their life section, and so I found 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:34.680 out about it because somebody on Twitter was like, Hey, 0:03:35.040 --> 0:03:36.640 were you just not gonna tell us that you joined 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.800 Discovery dot Com? And I'm like, what, So take a look, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:42.280 and sure enough, there it is and it seems to 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:45.360 be very well received. I'm excited about it. That's fantastic. Yeah. 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:48.000 And and as a you know, as a friend and fan, 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.200 I was very pleased to see that join our our 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:52.200 family here, and it was a it was a surprise 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:54.120 to me as well. I had not I had no 0:03:54.240 --> 0:03:57.400 knowledge of any sort of Revision three work at that point, 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.880 but it was very pleased to see you brought on board. 0:03:59.880 --> 0:04:03.720 Anytime I can see talented people who who are good 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:08.600 at at at entertaining and informing, that's always a pleasure. Uh. 0:04:08.760 --> 0:04:11.880 So we wanted to talk a little bit today about 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:16.240 the fact that since you have an extensive experience being 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:19.760 a stage magician, uh that kind of gets your perspective 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.440 on how stage magic has changed over the years and 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.719 how the role of technology has sort of played a 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.080 part in that, and that just get an idea of 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.920 what's important when you're a stage magician. Yeah, absolutely, I 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.920 mean I would say as as far back as you look, 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.239 there's been a very tight relationship between technology and magic. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:43.360 And uh, what's the Arthur's C. Clark quote from Childhood's End. 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.839 He says, any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:50.520 is one of our favorites. Yeah. No, and then the 0:04:50.600 --> 0:04:52.800 magicians love that quote because it makes us sound important. 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.760 But the but you know, you look back, and it 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:01.320 seems like every time there's a novel new tech knowledgy, uh, 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.400 there is a magician to either exploit it secretly in 0:05:04.440 --> 0:05:08.159 a stage show or to make it integral to his 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.480 stage performance. You know. You go back, you know you've 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.960 got Jean Eugene Robert Houdon uh doing doing bullet catches, 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:17.520 you know, and this is in the nineteenth century when 0:05:17.680 --> 0:05:21.480 they're still using a musket type rifles. You got uh, 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:24.599 you know, Penn and Teller doing doing cell phone tricks, 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:26.799 you know. And of course I I do an illusion 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.080 in my stage show now where I make a ghost 0:05:29.160 --> 0:05:32.080 appear on everyone's cell phone in the audience. And there's 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.919 something about the novelty of new technology that that puts 0:05:35.920 --> 0:05:38.159 a finger in that same part of the brain that 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.720 good sleight of hand does where it's just it's just 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:44.760 incomprehensible and you can't even understand how that's possible. That's yeah, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.359 that's really cool. I'm uh, you know, not to not 0:05:48.400 --> 0:05:51.120 to pull back the veil too much from from the 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:54.719 whole magic thing, but go ahead, pull it back in 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.039 the back here in the bidz uh. You know, we 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:02.599 might refer to certain certain types of technology specifically made 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:06.400 for stage magic, often referred to as as gimmicks, a 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.679 gimmick that you use in order to pull off a trick. 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:12.400 And I think it's an interesting thing that I see 0:06:12.480 --> 0:06:15.040 with a lot of people who just start off in magic. 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:20.400 The beginners often, I think, place more stock in a 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:24.839 gimmick than they do necessarily in stage presentation. And I'm 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.520 curious as to what your view is on that. What 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.040 do you think is the most important tool in any 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:34.400 stage magician's toolbox? Us, Yeah, you nailed it right on 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.039 the head. When I first started in magic, I was 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.080 what eighteen years old, and wandered into a magic shop 0:06:40.080 --> 0:06:43.160 in Austin, Texas that was run out of the garage 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:45.679 of one of the local magicians, and since I didn't 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.400 have a car at university, I had to take two 0:06:48.400 --> 0:06:50.640 different buses. It took me a forty five minutes just 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.440 to go the eight miles to get there. And uh, 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:55.800 this guy talked to me for like the three hours straight. 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:58.640 I just had my mind blown because I picked magic 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:01.280 just out of the blue as as a hobby to try, 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:03.880 and I didn't really know much about it. But one 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:05.400 of the things he told me that really stuck with 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.200 me is like when when people first start doing magic, 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:12.560 they always want the self working, no fail gimmicks. They 0:07:12.560 --> 0:07:15.160 want they want the tricky deck of cards to force 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:17.360 someone a card rather than relying on slide of hand, 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:19.720 because you know, it's a confidence booster and it's something 0:07:19.760 --> 0:07:22.280 that always works. But then there's some kind of guilt 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.360 that builds in you. It makes you think, like, I'm 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:26.240 not really a magician. I should be doing everything with 0:07:26.240 --> 0:07:28.240 a real deck of cards. And you learn how to 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:32.040 do these these fancy forces or these flourishes, or you know, 0:07:32.080 --> 0:07:34.320 turn over one card so it looks like a different card, 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.000 and then after a while, once you have that down, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:38.920 you get lazy and say, why am I doing all 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.680 this extra work? When the one who notices the difference, 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:43.680 and then you go back to using gimmicks. So it's 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:46.360 like pendulum. Yeah it is, but but but you come 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:48.680 out the other side because it's one of those once 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:52.640 you get enough flight time, you build an engaging presentation. 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.800 And I'll tell you that's the biggest I don't want 0:07:55.800 --> 0:07:58.640 to say betrayal, that's the biggest confusion that people have. 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.200 A lot of folks get into magic in their fourteen 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:04.280 and hitting puberty because they feel powerless and they want 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.920 a way to get other people to be interested in 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.440 something they're doing, and so they follow the script the 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:12.960 way it's written, They do the moves the way it's written, 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:15.720 and either they get stuck in that rut and they 0:08:15.760 --> 0:08:19.320 become those socially awkward people who can't relate to other 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:21.440 people except with the deck of cards in their hand, 0:08:21.880 --> 0:08:24.960 or they pull through it and they realize, wow, it's 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:27.640 not really They'll they'll realize, like, out of everything, the 0:08:27.680 --> 0:08:29.880 one joke they made up on the spot got a 0:08:29.920 --> 0:08:33.120 bigger reaction than any of the prepackaged can jokes that 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.480 they had before then, and then they realized that the 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.679 magic is just that social lubricant. It's just that excuse 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.400 to start interacting with someone. And it's really it's your 0:08:41.400 --> 0:08:44.679 personality that matters way more than anything. And you. I mean, 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.040 there are parts of Penn and Teller's show that are 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.920 utterly transparent to anyone who knows a thing or two 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.439 about magic. And yet there are some of the most important, 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.160 beautiful routines that they've ever written because they speak to 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:03.000 something bigger than the they're doing. Yeah, I'm always reminded 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.800 of their routine of doing the cups and balls with 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:09.800 the transparent cups. Yeah, and even as you're watching it, 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.360 and even as they're explaining how they do it, they're 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.960 doing it so seamlessly and so smoothly. That's so clear 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.719 that they've they've really polished that routine that it's still 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:24.400 feels like magic. Well, I think there's a real, uh, 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:27.640 there's something that we really crave in the illusion of 0:09:27.679 --> 0:09:31.400 being educated. And I say the illusion because because by 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.800 the time that trade, ostensibly the whole purpose of that 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:35.600 routine is for them to teach you how to do 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:37.520 the cups and balls, because you see it done with 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:41.240 transparent cups. By the time that's over, I would I 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:45.040 would challenge you to a hundred thousand yen. That is 0:09:45.080 --> 0:09:48.800 that a hundred bucks, So like that not recreate even 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.160 one phase of that routine accurately and likewise. One of 0:09:52.200 --> 0:09:54.200 the things people seem to like most of my stage 0:09:54.200 --> 0:09:56.480 show is I begin with this four and a half 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.040 minute illustrated history of fire eating, right explained from the 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.800 earliest references to resistance to fire to UH to the 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:08.000 touring UH you know stage performer Richardson in the sixteen hundreds. 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:11.240 I explain the progression of fire reading, and everyone's oh, 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:13.560 I just so educational. I learned so much, and I 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.000 was like, you cannot repeat back one fact. I gave 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.280 you that entire time. But it's that blend of feeling 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.040 like you're learning while you're seeing something visually interesting that 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:26.680 seems to uh, seems to sit well with people. Excellent, yeah, um, 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:30.760 and it's it's interesting to me on this show in 0:10:30.880 --> 0:10:34.199 several different episodes, and Chris can can attest to this 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:35.760 because he had to listen to me do it just 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:40.640 a second ago. I stress the importance of of critical 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:45.000 thinking and really taking taking time to think things through, 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:47.240 because otherwise you just tend to accept stuff on a 0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:50.280 surface level, and it becomes very easy to get tricked 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:52.120 into things. This is one of those things that magicians 0:10:52.120 --> 0:10:54.920 that actually can depend upon depending on their their routines. 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:58.319 But but there does seem to be an interesting relationship 0:10:58.440 --> 0:11:02.200 between people who are are who get into stage magic 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.560 and people who are advocates for critical thinking. Um. But 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.839 and I mean that all that I'll really began with Houdini. 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.000 You know, Judini was obsessed with trying to contact his 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:15.720 dead mother and this is at the height of spiritualism 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:19.880 in uh, you know, early twentieth century. But being a magician, 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.560 he was offended when he went to spiritual mediums and 0:11:23.600 --> 0:11:26.319 saw they were using standard slide hand tricks. And yet 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:28.280 these people with the straight face, We're saying, no, I'm 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.040 contacting the spirit world. He's like, no, you got that palm, 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:33.240 you know, and he would he would call him out. 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:34.840 He was he was kind of he was kind of 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.640 an a hole about it, you know. Yeah, and that 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.280 tradition continues to this day well well, and and to 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:44.920 be honest, nobody was doing it after Houdini until James 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.040 Randy came along and back in the nineteen sixties and 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:49.560 started off with with I don't know if it started 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:51.160 with a hundred dollars out of his own pocket or 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:52.959 a thousand dollars out of his own pocket. But he's 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:56.600 always offered this, uh, this, this dollar amount challenge to 0:11:56.640 --> 0:12:00.040 anyone who can demonstrate any psychic esp or super a 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:03.640 natural phenomenon under double blind test conditions. Uh And and 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.880 nobody's gotten anywhere close. And in fact the challenge is now, 0:12:06.920 --> 0:12:10.040 of course the world famous million dollar challenge, and it 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:14.040 actually extends to things beyond your typical you know, the 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.800 we typically think of things like being able to move 0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:20.360 something with your mind or prove that dowsing is real, 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.680 but it actually I've seen him extend that to uh, 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:27.920 to technological claims as well, for example, monster cables. There 0:12:27.960 --> 0:12:31.160 you go, That's where I was headed. Beat me to 0:12:31.240 --> 0:12:34.360 the punch there, And I guess it's true. I think 0:12:34.360 --> 0:12:36.560 I've read an article recently saying that a wire co 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:40.120 hanger demonstrated the ability to perform just as well as 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.640 a hundred dollar monster cable. Yeah. We, as a matter 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.000 of fact, talked about that on a previous podcast. Yeah, 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:49.200 that exact same subject. Yeah, But which it's interesting to 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:52.720 think that it's a stage magician, someone who is skilled 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.800 in the arts of deception. Who who comes forward as 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.000 an advocate for this? And then but then again, you're 0:12:58.000 --> 0:13:00.520 talking about the people who know these tools, because like 0:13:00.559 --> 0:13:03.360 you were saying with Houdini, there these are the tools 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:05.320 of the trade, and they're seeing it being done not 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:07.679 for entertainment purposes, but to pull the wool over the 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.560 eyes and try and builk people out of money. Well, 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:13.880 I think go ahead, I was gonna say, in a way, 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:18.080 the people that that sell paraphernalia like that, the the 0:13:18.160 --> 0:13:21.640 high end audio cables that work theoretically just as well 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.640 as a code hanger. They're involved in an act of 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:29.080 showmanship as well. Oh, certainly showmanship. And also there's there's 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.000 certain things. Um when there's a market need for something, 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.000 whether it exists or not, somebody will figure out a 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:37.640 way to fill it. And that's why I don't think 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.240 Marnster cables are going anywhere, is because whether or not 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:43.360 it's true, if you have more money than sense, you 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:45.719 want to believe that there's something better than the ten 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.200 dollar cable, and and Monster is gonna be there to 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.760 say yes, yes there is, and here it is. And 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.679 and the thing that really drives me crazy is you 0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.840 could actually come into contact with a system that is 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:04.440 measurably through very very finely two instruments better than a 0:14:04.559 --> 0:14:09.080 cheaper system. But to the human ear is indistinguishable, right, 0:14:09.160 --> 0:14:12.040 because we're not capable of hearing that well. And and 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:14.480 in fact, uh, there's a man, it must have been. 0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:16.200 It was over a decade ago that I read in 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:18.280 Wired magazine. I wish I could remember the name of 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:22.520 the audio engineer that he set up a super calibrated 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.440 sound system at one dance club and people were complaining 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:27.440 that it just it just wasn't loud. And meanwhile he's 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.600 looking at the decibel meter and this thing is like 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.160 almost damaging your hearing, it's so loud. So he goes 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.120 to radio shack and gets a I think it was 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:37.840 like cents in Peter that would that would clip the 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.440 highest end. But the the audio queue of hearing the 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.560 high ends being clipped made them think that the speakers 0:14:44.560 --> 0:14:46.720 were maxed, and even though the volume was actually lower, 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:49.120 people reported how much more they liked the music, how 0:14:49.200 --> 0:14:53.360 much louder it was. That's that now that I don't 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.600 find that hard to believe, but it is. It is 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:58.480 pretty amazing. It is amazing, I'll tell you, man, it's 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.760 amazing to me, what what a mystery our own minds are. 0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:04.760 And that's one of the things, my favorite, one of 0:15:04.760 --> 0:15:07.440 the greatest things I got to do at the University 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.760 of Texas was I was part of this honors program 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:11.880 where they only took a hundred and fifty students each year, 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.080 and they'd have over a thousand applicants, but you could take. 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:17.200 You took pretty much what they told you the first 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.360 couple of years, but the last two years you took 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.760 whatever classes were related to your thesis. You had to 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:23.920 have a thesis in order to graduate, and some of 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.320 the students would write their first novel, some of them 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.800 would write these two three d page biographies on obscure 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.440 figures from history. And I was doing magic on the 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.080 side at this point, and I thought, well, maybe it 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:37.480 would be awesome if I could get away with writing 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:39.360 a paper on the history of magic, because that would 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:41.560 be fun, or even better, if I could claim that 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:43.520 it was my thesis to get a trick published in 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:46.120 one of these magic journals, So, you know, still putting 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:48.600 a significant amount of work on myself, but at least 0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:50.600 it would be fun and magic related. And when I 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.280 went into pitch, my idea to the dean. She said, well, 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.400 what do you want to do for your thesis? And 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.680 I got as far as saying, well, for the last 0:15:57.680 --> 0:15:59.520 couple of years, I've been doing magic on the side, 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:01.560 And as I drew in a breath to continue, she 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:04.920 interrupted saying, and you want to do a magic show 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:09.480 as a creative writing thesis. What a great idea. And 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:12.520 so as it was full, I got to take whatever 0:16:12.560 --> 0:16:14.680 courses I wanted for the last two years, as long 0:16:14.680 --> 0:16:16.880 as I could justify being related to magic. So I 0:16:16.920 --> 0:16:21.880 took courses on you know, on artificial intelligence, on psychology, 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.560 on history of witchcraft, on pseudoscience and the paranormal. Uh, 0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.760 it was, it was amazing. But it was those courses 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:33.360 on brain development that really cemented in my mind what wonderful, 0:16:33.440 --> 0:16:37.320 flawed machines we all are. And once you see, once 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:41.080 you spend a few years deceiving people, and even better, 0:16:41.240 --> 0:16:45.000 hearing back from people after the fact, having them describe 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:47.160 to you what they think you did or what they 0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:51.280 remember you doing, it is unreal how wrong all of 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.360 our memories are, all the time, on everything. And once 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:57.080 you accept that, I find I find I'm a lot 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:59.920 happier about everything. I don't argue anymore. Like if I 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:02.720 remember something happening one way and someone remembers in another way, 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:05.760 I'm like, whatever, I'm probably we're probably both wrong. Thing 0:17:05.840 --> 0:17:08.720 like that. And likewise, when you look at um, you know, 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:13.560 eye witness testimony, you you you devalue it severely because 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:17.360 you understand that even if they're not intentionally lying to themselves, 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:21.159 they there's just no way that they can accurately remember anything. 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:23.640 So you're making me feel a lot more comfortable about 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.680 the fact that I offload a lot of my own 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:31.600 mental uh, my own mental practices onto my technology. Now, oh, 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.880 you should, you should. And in fact, I think that 0:17:35.400 --> 0:17:39.159 we're entering an age where, unfortunately in the legal system 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.440 right now, we still are in a place where where 0:17:42.440 --> 0:17:45.320 we value eye witness testimony far more than we should 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:47.760 because there's and if you've if you're familiar with the 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:51.639 work of Elizabeth loftus, uh, it is unreal. They've been 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:55.359 able to induce false memories and other people by asking 0:17:55.480 --> 0:17:58.359 leading questions. There was one story where they took a 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:02.960 young kid named Chris and they laid out five stories. 0:18:02.960 --> 0:18:05.080 Four of them were tales that actually happened to him. 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.080 One was a totally made up story about being lost 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.080 at the mall, and they asked a bunch of questions 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:13.359 about all five and uh, and then like two weeks 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:15.520 later they said, well, which of these one of these 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.680 was a made up story that never happened to you? Chris? 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.160 Which one was the one that we made up? And 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:23.080 he picked an actual story from his past as being 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:25.040 a made up one because he couldn't believe that he 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.800 wasn't lost at the mall at age five. It's kind 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.239 of like, wasn't there that story about the other the 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.960 other experiment with the showing an ad a fake ad 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.480 for some popcorn uh to some people during a thing, 0:18:37.520 --> 0:18:39.560 and then like a survey two weeks later, they asked 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:41.679 them how the popcorn was, but no one in the 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:44.639 study had actually had any popcorn, but they all remembered 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.280 trying it and then it was delicious because of the ad. 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.760 Oh wow, I haven't heard now that was that was 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.199 just I think that was in when I heard that. 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.960 I think I heard that on Skeptics Guide to the Universe. Um, 0:18:56.000 --> 0:18:58.840 that's fantastic. Yeah. And this is why focus groups aren't 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:01.960 so great for marketing purpose is because the leader often 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.560 sort of steers it in the direction of the of 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:07.960 what the the company that has organized this focus group 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:11.320 is trying to achieve, like oh hey, look it works, Yeah, right, 0:19:11.359 --> 0:19:14.359 let's go with it. Yeah, Which that's the important of 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.480 double blind experimentation, which we you know, of course they 0:19:17.520 --> 0:19:19.800 do very very well with the with the FDA, and 0:19:19.920 --> 0:19:23.200 for you know, new drugs. When it comes to consumer marketing, 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:24.919 there's probably not much of a reason to try that. 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:26.960 And for those out there who don't know what a 0:19:27.000 --> 0:19:29.919 double blind test is, all right, So a blind test 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.239 means that the person who's taking the test has no 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.080 knowledge of whether or not they are in a control 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.720 group or the test group. Double blind is that the 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:40.800 person administering the test also does not know if that 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:43.800 person if they are administering a test to the control 0:19:43.840 --> 0:19:46.680 group or to the test group, so that that it 0:19:47.480 --> 0:19:51.320 limits the chance that data will be uh leaked to 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:55.440 a test subject and influence his or her results. Yeah. 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:57.920 That one of the earliest cases of that where it's 0:19:57.920 --> 0:20:01.560 so important is Michelle Eugene should Rules, a French scientist 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:04.240 and this is back in the I believe the nineteenth 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.640 century when dowsing was super popular, and dowsing is of course, 0:20:07.680 --> 0:20:10.560 you know, finding water with a forked stick or holding 0:20:10.560 --> 0:20:13.080 a pendulum over a substance, and it swings one way 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:14.920 if it's supposed to be one thing, or swings another 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:17.520 way if it's another. And when he tried it, he 0:20:17.640 --> 0:20:19.320 set out the way he tried it was, of course, 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:21.880 he set out a bowl of mercury, held out the pendulum, 0:20:21.880 --> 0:20:24.480 and that things started swinging like crazy, pulled the mercury 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:27.720 away and it stayed totally still. Still. He was like, 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.399