WEBVTT - Megalomaniacs with Low Self-Esteem w/ Dax Shepard 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:04.920 Hi, Catherine, Hello Chelsea, how are you. I'm well, how 0:00:04.920 --> 0:00:08.480 are you doing today? Oh, I'm I'm just fantastic today. 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:11.479 I'm really excited for our guest today. I'm excited for 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.360 our guests too, because he's one of the only straight 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:17.080 white man that I really loving a door in this 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.040 moment in time that isn't related to me. He is 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:25.240 fucking awesome, and he has a very successful podcast empire 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:28.800 of his own. You know him from Armchair Expert and 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.920 then he has a bunch of podcasts underneath the Armchair 0:00:32.040 --> 0:00:36.560 Expert umbrella. And he is an actor, he's comedian, he's 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.440 host of top Gear America, and he is the person 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:42.760 people contact when they want to get ahold of Kristen Bell. 0:00:43.520 --> 0:00:47.360 His name is Dak Shepherd. Welcome to the show, Dax Shepherd. 0:00:47.400 --> 0:00:51.000 What What an honor? What an honor. I'm gonna try 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:52.720 to keep my hands off of you, but we're so close. 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.600 It just feels ridiculous that I wanted. Thank you. It's 0:00:55.600 --> 0:00:58.480 an honor to be here. Number one. Number two. Can 0:00:58.680 --> 0:01:01.400 can I ask you why you hate hearing introductions of 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:04.360 yourself because I'm assuming you do as well. I just 0:01:04.560 --> 0:01:07.320 you know, it's just a bunch of horseship. Yeah, it's 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.720 it's just it falls in line with the same exercise 0:01:11.000 --> 0:01:15.240 as hearing people tell you why they're big fans of yours. Yeah, 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:19.040 but don't do you also suffer from the paradox of like, clearly, 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:21.120 all I want is for people to love me. I 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.320 wouldn't have moved here otherwise, and yet when they do 0:01:24.520 --> 0:01:28.679 love me, I can't take it. It's such a weird. Yeah, 0:01:28.720 --> 0:01:32.480 it is very It's confusing because we want the adulation, 0:01:32.600 --> 0:01:35.399 but I'd rather I'd rather read about it there we go, 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:38.360 or hear about it. Oh that's the sweet spot. If 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.200 someone's gossiping about you in a positive way. Yes, I'd 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:43.040 rather hear about it instead of someone say it to 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:45.000 my face. Because this is what I have a hard 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.880 time with. My reaction to seem sincere when you're saying 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:53.760 thank you. It's the opening presence on Christmas syndrome. Yeah, like, 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.280 I'm nervous. I'm not going to give you a response 0:01:56.680 --> 0:02:00.080 that feels like I heard it or it meant something 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:01.720 to me, And now I'm panicked that I'm going to 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:04.400 let you down. And I think, and I and I think. 0:02:04.400 --> 0:02:06.760 Another thing is like I do meet and greets backstage 0:02:06.800 --> 0:02:09.480 after my shows in COVID safe states, so I didn't 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.360 do them in Florida. Shout out to Florida. You know 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.640 when people when you mean a lot to someone, it 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:19.160 feels bad to not have it register right exactly. Some 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:21.839 people get emotional or they say this what you did 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.960 here changed my life or helped me through this difficult time. 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:27.720 I feel you when you think about it in that 0:02:27.800 --> 0:02:31.760 framework or a frame of mind, it feels very You 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.160 feel like a cunt you do well. I feel like 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.079 a fraud, Like I can't possibly have helped a stranger 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.360 in any way unless I've gone to their house and 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:42.480 change a tire or something like. It's very abstract, and 0:02:42.520 --> 0:02:45.880 it's it's again, it's so weird because I'm both a 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.880 megalomaniac and I have super low self esteem. So it's like, 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.000 I don't believe I could have helped them, and yet 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.360 I'm a megalomaniac. It's yeah, it's quite a dichotomy that 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:59.320 you have because most recently you deemed me and said 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:02.280 something a lot on the lines of what size venues 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:06.080 are you performing in? And I told you, I said, 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:11.000 like undred thirty hundred seats. I'm so glad you're outing 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:15.239 me for this on average, and he writes back, I'm 0:03:15.280 --> 0:03:18.040 just actually being really competitive and making sure that I'm 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.640 performing at the same size venues. Well, I'm so glad. 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:23.000 I'm here to make sure this is told correctly because 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:26.040 there is a lot of puke worthy of actions on 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:28.320 my part, but that wasn't one of them. So I said, 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.680 what size venues are you performing? Because I saw the 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.200 list of how many shows you had added, and then 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:36.080 you said, I said, oh, that's rad. And then you 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:40.520 said why do you ask, which is a very legitimate response, 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.840 And then I said, I'm just counting your money, like 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:48.480 I'm curious how much making because I'm nosy about people's money. Yeah, 0:03:48.520 --> 0:03:51.480 but it wasn't competitive at all, Like, in no way 0:03:51.600 --> 0:03:53.000 was I like, I want to make sure I'm selling 0:03:53.000 --> 0:03:55.400 the same size Okay, sorry I read that, Rong. I 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:57.760 like your honesty about it. Listen, all I care about 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.560 in life is honesty. We both want to know each 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:03.839 other's intentions and then we can proceed according And I also, yeah, 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.480 and if people are competitive or like that, that's also 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.520 fine too. But I like when people are upfront and 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:12.800 not cag or are a little bit like Macavalian about things. 0:04:12.880 --> 0:04:14.480 I find that to be a very off put in 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.800 quality in people. I agree, Yes, yes, I agree, And 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:20.760 I think coming from similar childhoods, that's why we It's like, 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.280 just fucking tell me what's your what's your hustle, and 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:25.320 then I'll decide whether I want to participate or not. 0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:28.400 But I just I need I'm not a fool, so 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:30.880 you're not gonna colm me into getting what you want. 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:34.279 I might like acquiesce and give you what you want, 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.240 but I just need to know what the intention is, 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:40.560 and so mine truly, And I'm curious if how you feel. Hey, 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.440 I haven't generally and this is probably sexist. Been competitive 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:46.880 with women. I just like when Chris and I go 0:04:46.920 --> 0:04:49.000 to a movie. I'm staring at the dudes in the 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:50.960 movie and I'm thinking about whether they deserve to be 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:52.960 in this movie or not, and she is looking at 0:04:52.960 --> 0:04:54.760 the women and deciding if they deserve to be in 0:04:54.760 --> 0:04:57.080 the movie or not. I'm almost never looking at the 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.240 female So I am competitive with dudes, have been in 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:02.920 the past, but not with women. Sometimes you're competitive with 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.479 your wife, though, don't you think? Well, I feel like 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.080 sometimes you feel like she steals your thunder not sometimes 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.880 I feel like I feel like you definitely feel that way. 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.520 I don't feel that way that she sometimes steals your thunder. 0:05:14.040 --> 0:05:18.160 The challenges I've had in being with her is there 0:05:18.200 --> 0:05:21.640 have been stretches years where she's made more money than me, 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.080 and that has in the past affected me where I 0:05:25.120 --> 0:05:27.599 start I feel emasculated by it, like, oh, I'm the 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:31.680 guy I'm supposed to be making more. I'm a fucking loser. 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.200 My wife makes more money than me. Like you know 0:05:34.320 --> 0:05:38.719 old old hardware that was installed in Detroit that it's 0:05:38.760 --> 0:05:42.840 taken me forty odd years to ditch. But I've had that. 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.600 If she's outshining me, awesome. I've been getting a lot 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:49.400 of attention for twenty years. I'm so fine with her 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:52.000 outshining me. I'm like we were at a Formula one 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.080 race recently and we were getting some heat and then 0:05:55.120 --> 0:05:57.039 all of a sudden, Shaquille O'Neal showed up and I 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:00.120 was like, oh, here we go. Hey, you can't miss him. 0:06:00.160 --> 0:06:02.479 Like anywhere on the grid you can see Shakili seven 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:05.480 feet tall, so now all eyes are on shakil Um. 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:09.159 I love that. I don't have a desire to be 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:11.840 stared at More. Oh, yeah, I hear what you're saying. 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:13.960 I hear what you're saying. I think you know what 0:06:14.080 --> 0:06:16.000 I think when I think about your relationship, because you 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.360 guys are both very I've Kristen's been on the podcast 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.160 as well, on both of ours. Actually, I think that 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:23.680 you really have come into a lot of success since 0:06:23.720 --> 0:06:26.320 you got since you were married, right, I mean, especially 0:06:26.360 --> 0:06:29.440 with your podcast especially, I mean you've blown up. I 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:32.200 mean the only podcast that's bigger than yours, unfortunately is 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:35.480 Joe Rogan's. But you really kind of define the podcast 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.720 space in a huge way. So that must instill a 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.680 ton of confidence in you for someone who claims that 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:43.640 they have a lack of self confidence, which I believe 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:46.960 you do because we've spoken. Yeah, again, I'm not saying 0:06:47.000 --> 0:06:49.880 I'm not also air Again, I am like, I often 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:52.520 think I'm the smartest person in the room, and then 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.480 also I think I'm a piece of ship and I'm 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.480 unattractive and all these things. So you know, I'm not 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.479 claiming I walk around feeling bad for my self. I 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:03.440 just yeah, I think all humans, I will you do. 0:07:03.720 --> 0:07:06.360 I interview so many people that have they've won Sexiest 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.440 Person of the Year on People magazine and they hate 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.840 Holly Look. So I think it's a human condition. I 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.880 don't think or a Hollywood condition. Well, it seems to 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.040 be a human condition. I think you are right, yeah, 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.720 because because there's always a Brad Pitt. Like even if 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:22.440 you're at the top of the heat, you're gonna look 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.400 at Brad Pitt, take your shirt off and once upon 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:26.440 a time in Mexico or once upon a time in 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.760 Hollywood and go, oh my god, that guy is fifty 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.160 five and his body looks better than mine never did 0:07:31.160 --> 0:07:36.000 in this my twenties. You're gonna compare yourself. Mike Tyson 0:07:36.120 --> 0:07:38.800 got beat up eventually, Like there's always someone better than you. 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:41.520 So if you're playing the comparison game, it doesn't take 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:44.080 much to find someone, you know. I don't think i'm 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:47.280 outing Bradley Bradley Cooper fucking I've never had a friend 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.640 where women text me so often just saying like, hey, 0:07:50.040 --> 0:07:53.240 if he's ever interested, no strengths attached, don't need a dinner, 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:57.920 I just want to sleep with him. That's a unique quality. 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:00.440 I have many famous friends. I don't get those texts 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.720 about anybody but him, And he doesn't think he's a 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:09.040 ten I think he thinks he's a seven, which is weird. 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.440 What number do you think you are? Six? Yeah, but 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.480 I do think and here's where the arrogance will come in. 0:08:14.680 --> 0:08:16.960 I think my personality is at ten. So I think 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:21.040 lucky for me, women c an eight. I think they 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:25.480 subconsciously are creating an average between my personality and my looks, 0:08:25.520 --> 0:08:27.440 and they're actually seen an eight. And they would be 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.760 on a witness stand and they would claim, what is 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.160 He's an eight? And they would be telling the truth 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.280 from their perspective. It sounds like you thought about this 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.959 before for years. What do you think you are? I 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:40.960 think I'm a ten? Okay, Yeah, I feel I have 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.680 a lot of confidence in a my personality, be the 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.000 way that I look. I'm into aging. I'm also you know, 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.439 into taking care of myself, so the physicality part of it, 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:54.079 I'm pretty confident with it. I think I'm really like 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.600 I've really grown up and like I'm like a very 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.959 good version of myself. Yeah. Yeah, so I'm pretty happy 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.760 with myself these days. I used to, like, you know, 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.439 have a lot of self loathing and like body issues 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.680 and all that ship, but I kind of just you know, 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.200 tried to really shake that ship out in therapy and 0:09:10.200 --> 0:09:12.520 read a lot of fucking shit about it and learned 0:09:12.559 --> 0:09:14.720 about myself and I and I feel like I'm a 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:17.760 great student of therapy. The more information I get, the 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.839 more confident I get become. Yeah, and I bet there's 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.280 someone in the audience thinking in their mind, of course 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.280 you feel confident you're a fucking bombshell, which is true. 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.560 But I think you'd be missing the point, which is 0:09:30.120 --> 0:09:32.680 you were an even younger version of the bombshell in 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:35.600 the past and didn't think you were all that. Isn't 0:09:35.600 --> 0:09:38.600 that the real point of that? Yes, yeah, I think 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.040 you grow in because I would look at you and 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.240 go like, well, you should feel confident you're right. Very 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:45.920 very few for the same age, right, yeah, forty six Yeah, 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.640 very few forty six year olds look like you. Yeah, right, 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:52.240 right exactly. I'm heading for my facialist right after we're 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.920 done with the podcast today. So that's one of the reason. Well, 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:58.160 that's why it's going, you know what I mean? Okay, 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:00.319 I have I have an outstanding question I want to 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:04.040 ask you. I follow you on Instagram. I also follow 0:10:04.080 --> 0:10:06.760 you on Instagram. Clearly we dm each other. We don't 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:08.440 have each other's phone number, which I think is that's 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:13.319 probably best. I have Christian's phone number. Yeah, that's right, 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:16.559 that's right. If there's ever an emergency, you can get 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:20.400 a hold of me through that number. But here's here's 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.880 what happens. I um, I have a lot of male 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.520 friends who are very fit. They post pictures. I write 0:10:25.559 --> 0:10:28.680 underneath of it, you know, flame signs, boners. I'm so 0:10:28.760 --> 0:10:31.319 happy for how they look. And then you as I think, 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:34.720 I have a relationship with friendship so often your body 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:37.320 looks so fucking rocking, and I want to write like 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:40.720 how great it looks. It's so impressive, And then I go, 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.400 you can't do that, And I want you from your opinion. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.559 Am I writing that I can't do that? I shouldn't, 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.920 I should not do that? Or what do you think about? 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:51.959 I think that's a great question, and I think it's 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:53.600 a great time to bring up a question like that. 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:55.800 And I think, as long as you know, I think 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:57.840 men are confused right now, but what they can say 0:10:57.840 --> 0:10:59.400 and what they can't say, and as long as it's 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:03.360 not predator worry and harassing, like, then of course you're 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:05.600 my friend. You can say, wow, you look great. I 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:07.880 haven't had no problem saying you your body looks great, 0:11:08.240 --> 0:11:10.080 like it doesn't have to be because I'm in the 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:13.880 dominant structure. Yes, absolutely that you are. In the doc. 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:19.880 You're you're complimenting up. But I think that's I think 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.360 that's where men are lost right now. It's like you 0:11:22.400 --> 0:11:24.800 can say nice things to women, it just doesn't have 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.720 to sound like you want to suckles. And even though 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.080 I know that you have told me that you wanted 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.319 to suck me before, or that I would be your 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:34.360 you know, free card with christ and one of your 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:37.920 free cards. Who are the other ones? By the way, 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:42.560 Zazzi beats? Oh my god, you know her? I don't know, 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.800 Oh my god? She did you watch Atlanta? Yes, the 0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.880 baby Mama of Oh yeah, yeah, she's so special face 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.800 or something about her face, yeah, right about that pleasing 0:11:52.920 --> 0:11:55.400 to look at, like it's so symmetrical, something about it 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:58.439 is just very soothing to stare at. And she's as 0:11:58.480 --> 0:12:00.439 I stalk her on Instagram, I've come to point now. 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:04.640 Also very interesting, like half German grew up in that 0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:07.640 weird German town in Georgia. Have you ever been there, 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:11.559 Helena or something? There was an episode where they went there. Well, 0:12:11.600 --> 0:12:14.720 she literally that that wasn't a stretch. She she was 0:12:14.840 --> 0:12:17.480 from there, went there all the time. So I'm intrigued. 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.160 That's probably rounds out my Okay, I have a question 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:26.640 about your marriage. What would you say the happiest, happiest 0:12:26.679 --> 0:12:31.000 time of your marriage has been thus far? Mm hmm, Well, 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:36.400 we've been together fifteen years. Yeah, that's a really long time. 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:39.600 It is. I think in Hollywood years, that's like a 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:44.280 thirty five year relationship. Maybe. Um, I would say there 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.440 were like, there's been little sweet spots, right, There's been 0:12:47.520 --> 0:12:50.800 like once we got engaged, there was some new level 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.040 of security that I hadn't anticipated. That kind of changed 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.400 the dynamic of our relationship dramatically, because, as you know, 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.920 I'm a pervert. So every joke I make is perverted 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.920 and sexual and that's very off putting if you don't 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:06.679 feel safe, and so I really had to curb that 0:13:06.760 --> 0:13:08.520 side of myself. And then when we got engaged, I 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.680 just started noticing, like all of a sudden, that didn't 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:13.079 bother her at all anymore, and I got to be 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:14.800 more of me and I was like, oh, that's I 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.439 would not have predicted any of that. That was a 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:21.160 very nice sweet stretch and growth having kids as lovely 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.840 and it's it's very bonding in this weird way. You know. 0:13:25.120 --> 0:13:29.480 My issues with her making more than me, the kids 0:13:29.480 --> 0:13:32.240 were the antidote to that, where I was like, oh, 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:34.800 this isn't about she or I or what I'm making 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:36.880 or what she's making. This is all about what we 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.439 are bringing to these two kids now. And I detached 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.640 my my ego from the whole thing, and then I 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:45.480 became at peace with it. But and then I would say, 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.600 right now, or what do they call it, bipolars when 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:51.240 they're ramping up. We're ramping up because our kids are 0:13:51.280 --> 0:13:54.920 getting now self sufficient enough that the load on us 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:57.240 has gone down a lot. Like we can sleep in 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.480 on a Saturday that it's been years since we could 0:13:59.520 --> 0:14:02.120 do that. We can hire babysitters, they don't crazy, we 0:14:02.160 --> 0:14:04.080 can go on a date. So things are starting to 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:06.920 like we're starting to find some more autonomy away from 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.480 our kids now, which is good. Yeah, so that's going 0:14:09.520 --> 0:14:12.280 to be a nice new adventure, I think. So optimistic 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:16.080 post rearing your children right, not post completely over but 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.320 the exhausting face. Yeah. Yeah, how old are the girls now? 0:14:19.440 --> 0:14:21.520 Six and eight? Six and eight? Okay, so they're little, 0:14:21.520 --> 0:14:23.880 still Little. I'm reading this book. I just started reading 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:25.480 this book that somebody handed to me at in an 0:14:25.480 --> 0:14:27.440 airport the other day, called Attachment. I don't know if 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:30.000 you've read this book. Is it about attachment theory in 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.360 your childhood? It's talking it talks about well not even 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.240 a childhood, it's about adulthood too. It talks about there's 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:39.240 three different types. One is anxious, one is secure, and 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.680 the other one is when is it anxious? Avoid and secure? 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.560 And avoid it? Yes, Catherine, avoid it so and then 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.360 it talks about how you can be a combo of 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.520 the two. Because I was reading it and I was like, oh, 0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:54.680 I'm secure, and then I was like, oh no, I'm 0:14:54.760 --> 0:14:57.080 kind of anxious because my brother died, and like when 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:58.920 people don't if I don't hear from somebody, you know, 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.920 I get that little. Since therapy, I'm have a much 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.240 healthier outlook about it, but it still is like a 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.120 feeling that I have to go, oh, that's your little 0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:10.040 person talking, that's not your adult self, Like, don't don't 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:14.040 act on that, right. So an avoidance is somebody who 0:15:14.080 --> 0:15:17.520 just doesn't who fears intimacy, and then avoidance and anxious 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.560 can kind of work in concert together. I would imagine 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.800 that you like very up and down in big swings, Yeah, 0:15:23.840 --> 0:15:28.520 like like intense feelings of intimacy and closes by intense 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.480 rejection and all those things. Right, Yeah, I think that's 0:15:32.520 --> 0:15:36.320 a psychle I've found myself in which one what do 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:40.600 you think would define you most aptly in general or 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:45.480 with Kristen? So okay, here's back to my the duality 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.240 of my self esteem. So I'm like very insecure so often, 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:54.880 and yet I'm I'm overly confident relationships, like grotesquely like arrogantly. 0:15:55.520 --> 0:15:58.600 I don't worry that Kristen's going to go find someone 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:01.720 with still find someone more attractive than me, for sure, 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:04.560 and she might find someone who's more philanthropic than me. 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:08.800 That's likely, um, But then there's nine other slices of 0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:11.680 the pie that she has to fill, And I just 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.520 think my average is really high for all the many things. 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:18.960 So I'm weirdly too confident in relationships. I'm not a 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:23.720 jealous person. I don't really care. And for a couple 0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:27.160 of different reasons. One, if you're afraid your partner is 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:30.160 going to become attracted to someone else and leave you 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:34.040 for them. The fast past to that is, go ahead 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:36.840 and be jealous, make yourself as unattractive and it's the 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.320 least amount of fun to be around as humanly possible, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.400 and then go ahead and manifest that outcome. I think 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:42.960 that's what a ton of people do, Like they're so 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.480 afraid of it that they will it to happen because 0:16:46.520 --> 0:16:49.320 they're not fun to date. People like to be trusted, 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:54.040 and it's just very unattractive. I mean, there's there are 0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:55.800 sick people that get off on that, like, oh, my 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:57.720 part are so jealous, they must really love me that. 0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.000 But you know, unless you're in that weird niche, I 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.520 just think in general you have to recognize it as 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:06.560 a nonstarter. It can't be done because you're actually going 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:08.879 to create this outcome. You fear right, and when you 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.840 give somebody to trust, you'd be surprised by the outcome 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:15.919 of just that. Yes, and and again I say this 0:17:15.960 --> 0:17:17.280 a lot, and then I think it leads people to 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.040 believe that we have an open relationship. I want to 0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:20.760 be clear, we don't have an open relationship. But I 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:24.240 have also said to her of the ten things that 0:17:24.320 --> 0:17:26.359 I value about you and that I need from you 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.800 as a partner, fidelities, tenth for me, it's just not 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:31.960 it's not has nothing to do with my day to 0:17:32.040 --> 0:17:36.760 day life. If she's in fucking Alaska ten years yeah, 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.439 and in a wit, let's be right about it. I'm sorry, 0:17:40.440 --> 0:17:46.280 You're right. It's just low on the things I need 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.280 from her, So that wouldn't bother you know, I mean, 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.720 I prefer not to know about it because that info 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.040 is not it's not useful for me. Would you qualify 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:57.680 yourself as needy in any way? So when you say 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.720 you're insecure, you're talking about your rational your professional life. 0:18:01.760 --> 0:18:04.320 Are you talking about your value? Your self worth? Yeah? 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.920 I want to parce out some specifics. Yeah, I want 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.639 to know what and why that hasn't changed over over time? 0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:13.720 Or has it? It has? It? Has it has? Yeah? 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.600 I should be clear to say I'm often referencing me 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:21.280 ten years ago, fifteen years ago. It has gotten better 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.240 and better and better. But it's gotten better and better 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.280 not in the By pursuing the route I thought would 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.840 end in self esteem. So I thought if I could 0:18:28.880 --> 0:18:32.560 find people I had assessed as being more attractive than me, 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.480 higher status than me, just all around better than me, 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:37.719 and I could get them to fall in love with 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.120 me it would elevate who I was. And I did 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:45.119 that pathologically and selfishly for a huge junk of my 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.680 life until I got to an apex where I was 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:50.880 dating someone I thought would be impossible to date this person, 0:18:50.920 --> 0:18:52.160 and then I looked in the mirror was like, yeah, 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.720 same dude, same piece of ship. It had no impact whatsoever. 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:58.720 If it would have worked, I would have done it 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:02.440 like if it worked, fine with it. But it didn't work. 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:07.240 And all these lame things are what makes me feel 0:19:08.040 --> 0:19:10.159 confident and have a lot of self esteem, which is 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.119 like being of service to people I don't want to 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:14.119 be of service to, fucking picking up the phone for 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:16.320 an alcoholic who's struggling, who I don't even want to 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:19.320 talk to, to being of service to my kids NonStop 0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.080 from the second I wake up until I go to bed. 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:24.280 I'm like, at their disposal. Those things make me feel. 0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:25.680 I look in the mirror, I'm like, you're a bad 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.280 motherfucker dude. You're working and you're dadding it in a 0:19:29.359 --> 0:19:32.840 way that you prayed you do it, and and I 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.159 love the dude in the mirror now, And what do 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.760 you think it's what are you most surprised about yourself? 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:41.880 Learning about yourself as a father, Like, what is the biggest, 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:47.080 like great surprise that you've realized or learned about yourself. 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:50.480 I guess the thing I'm most grateful for is I'm, 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:56.040 in general, the most impatient person. It's terrible. It's like 0:19:56.080 --> 0:19:58.560 the apex of my entitlement. Like I shouldn't have to 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:00.920 sit in traffic so I write a motorcycle. I shouldn't 0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:03.040 have to circle the block ten times. I'll pay a 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.080 parking ticket, you know, Like I just I'm so entitled 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:09.960 with my time and and again, I don't think I 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.359 could have been this way in my twenties or thirties 0:20:12.480 --> 0:20:14.600