1
00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,680
Speaker 1: The seventy three year old retired police officer accused of

2
00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,440
Speaker 1: killing a man after an argument over a cell phone

3
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,279
Speaker 1: in a movie theater, took the stand in his own defense.

4
00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:25,200
Speaker 1: At that point, it was his life or mine. This

5
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:30,120
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Reeves is using Florida's

6
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:33,000
Speaker 1: controversial stand your ground law in a hearing. Hoping to

7
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,720
Speaker 1: avoid going to trial. Reeves says he asked Olson to

8
00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:39,519
Speaker 1: put his phone away during the movie previews, and an

9
00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,680
Speaker 1: argument ensued. He says Olson first threw his cell phone

10
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:44,960
Speaker 1: at him, hitting him in the head, before grabbing his

11
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,680
Speaker 1: popcorn and throwing that at him as well. He was

12
00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 1: getting ready to punch me, and I perceived that at

13
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:57,480
Speaker 1: some point, and that's from the crystal came. It was

14
00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 1: his life or my life. That's what a retired chief

15
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:06,280
Speaker 1: of police says he shoots a movie goer dead in

16
00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: a cinema for texting. This is the way it all

17
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,759
Speaker 1: goes down. Everybody, Welcome to Crime Stories. I'm Nancy Grace.

18
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us. I'm stunned right now

19
00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,959
Speaker 1: about a case that's coming out of Wesley Chapel. It's

20
00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,399
Speaker 1: very close to Tampa. I've actually gone down there and

21
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,039
Speaker 1: looked at this cinema myself to see what it was

22
00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,400
Speaker 1: all about, to see the scene. There are wide swaths

23
00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:39,480
Speaker 1: of land that is undeveloped. It's beautiful stretch of marsh

24
00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,000
Speaker 1: in Florida. Then suddenly, out of nowhere jumps up Wesley

25
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,479
Speaker 1: Chapel and it looks new. You know how you can

26
00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:51,040
Speaker 1: tell an old subdivision or an old small versus the

27
00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:56,400
Speaker 1: new ones. The whole place looks new, and the neighborhoods

28
00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:03,160
Speaker 1: they're very, very nice, very upscale. So this sixteen movie

29
00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,800
Speaker 1: theater is where the shooting went down. And this is

30
00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:10,959
Speaker 1: what we know. It's in court right now and the

31
00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,960
Speaker 1: judge is trying to determine if this retired police captain

32
00:02:15,480 --> 00:02:20,360
Speaker 1: Curtis Reeves, seventy four years old, can advance the quote

33
00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,400
Speaker 1: stand your ground defense. What that means in Florida and

34
00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,799
Speaker 1: a few other states is that if you are attacked

35
00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,280
Speaker 1: and you're in fear for your life, you do not

36
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,600
Speaker 1: have to retreat. You can stand your ground and fight

37
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:40,760
Speaker 1: back with force only necessary to fight back. Now, this

38
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:44,519
Speaker 1: is what Curtis Reeves says in his own words, the

39
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:47,720
Speaker 1: retired police captain seventy four years old. He says he

40
00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,000
Speaker 1: goes in. The guy in front of him were in

41
00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:54,359
Speaker 1: the previews, were not even in the movie Lone Survivor.

42
00:02:54,960 --> 00:02:58,160
Speaker 1: I mean, really, you're that mad about a preview problem.

43
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:00,040
Speaker 1: So the guy in front of him is with his

44
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,320
Speaker 1: wife and he's texting. He's not talking on the phone,

45
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,760
Speaker 1: he's texting during the previews. It's a matinee. There are

46
00:03:07,800 --> 00:03:10,679
Speaker 1: not that many people there. He leans over to the

47
00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,720
Speaker 1: guy and says, hey, put away your phone. You're not

48
00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:18,359
Speaker 1: supposed to be texting. Well, the guy says, hey, leave

49
00:03:18,400 --> 00:03:20,560
Speaker 1: me a line. I'm texting my babysitters. She's with my

50
00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:25,160
Speaker 1: little girl. Well, he doesn't stop texting. Reeves says it again.

51
00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,640
Speaker 1: He goes, I'm gonna call management. So he goes and

52
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,799
Speaker 1: tittle tells to the manager. Then he comes back in.

53
00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,760
Speaker 1: He sees the guy Olson is no longer texting, Olson

54
00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,840
Speaker 1: sitting there with his wife. Olson is a forty three

55
00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:44,240
Speaker 1: year old married father and a Navy veteran. So Reeves

56
00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:47,480
Speaker 1: the police captain leans for it and goes, yeah, okay,

57
00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 1: I see you are no longer texting after I had

58
00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,760
Speaker 1: to bring in management. So basically a nanny nanny booboo.

59
00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,480
Speaker 1: Well that makes Olson mad. He turns around and he

60
00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:03,120
Speaker 1: knocks reeves popcorn onto him. The next thing you know,

61
00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:08,200
Speaker 1: Reeves says, and the pistol came out like the pistol

62
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,160
Speaker 1: all on its old self, just comes out of his

63
00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:20,960
Speaker 1: pocket and shoots Olson dead dead over texting and buttered popcorn.

64
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:24,560
Speaker 1: Now Reeves is saying that Olson threw his cell phone

65
00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:29,200
Speaker 1: at him. But Reeves his own wife is sitting next

66
00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:32,160
Speaker 1: to him, and she says, I never saw him get hit.

67
00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,400
Speaker 1: He told me at the time he got hit, But

68
00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:36,880
Speaker 1: I never saw that part. She's sitting next to him

69
00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:39,720
Speaker 1: in the theater. How can you not see it? So

70
00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,360
Speaker 1: that's what went down in a Wesley Chapel movie theater.

71
00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,560
Speaker 1: You go in, you're texting, You're getting a fuss with

72
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:53,360
Speaker 1: another movie goer. You're dead. You are dead. Just before

73
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:55,679
Speaker 1: or just as he stood up, I heard something about

74
00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,039
Speaker 1: theater management manager. But I think it was in a

75
00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,919
Speaker 1: conversation with a his wife. Not It was very loud,

76
00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,040
Speaker 1: so I think it was he was just being loud.

77
00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 1: So now his motion and swinging around got my eye.

78
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:15,600
Speaker 1: He's right off to my right here caught my eye

79
00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,760
Speaker 1: almost immediately when I looked up. He was coming over

80
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:25,440
Speaker 1: the seat at me across the front of where my

81
00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 1: wife was and he had I saw just a snapshot

82
00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 1: of a something dark in his hand. Almost immediately I

83
00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,159
Speaker 1: saw what I perceived to be a glow from a

84
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,600
Speaker 1: light a screen right in front of my face and uh,

85
00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:52,040
Speaker 1: and I was hit in the face loud, but he

86
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,720
Speaker 1: was facing the other way. After I got hit, then

87
00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:58,760
Speaker 1: then he was facing me and he was very loud

88
00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,520
Speaker 1: at that point. What was he saying a lot of

89
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,720
Speaker 1: sentences with the F word, Uh, I'm going to kick

90
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:17,599
Speaker 1: your f and ass I'm going to uh fuh if

91
00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,080
Speaker 1: if it was any of your f and business? Uh,

92
00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,240
Speaker 1: I was texting my f and daughter. Was he continuing

93
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,880
Speaker 1: to move in your direction? He was reaching for me,

94
00:06:30,080 --> 00:06:32,000
Speaker 1: and so what did you have to do as he

95
00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,760
Speaker 1: was reaching for you? When I realized that he had,

96
00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,839
Speaker 1: he had gotten much closer and that he was Uh,

97
00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,520
Speaker 1: I guess there's a there's a thing where you see

98
00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 1: somebody getting ready to set up to punch you, and

99
00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,480
Speaker 1: he was getting ready to punch me. And I perceived

100
00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,600
Speaker 1: that at some point and that's when the pistol came out.

101
00:06:58,520 --> 00:07:05,159
Speaker 1: And what did you do with that system? I shot him?

102
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:11,080
Speaker 1: Did you want to shoot? Absolutely not? So why did

103
00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:17,080
Speaker 1: you shoot? Well, at that point it was his life

104
00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 1: or mine. Did you feel he was going to hurt you?

105
00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,360
Speaker 1: No question about it. Now, here's the catch with this

106
00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,600
Speaker 1: whole stand your ground thing. If this judge rules that

107
00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: Curtis Reeves age seventy four, retired police captain, can claim

108
00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 1: stand your ground, it's over. They're not even going to trial.

109
00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:45,240
Speaker 1: He cannot be tried. I mean, okay, before I get

110
00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,600
Speaker 1: too crazy on this, Simply Safe, thank you for being

111
00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:53,360
Speaker 1: with us and making this podcast possible. Simply Safe allows

112
00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:58,200
Speaker 1: everybody in America to have home security. I have home security.

113
00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 1: I bet Alan Dieck has home security. My mother has

114
00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 1: home security. Why shouldn't you. Many people think they can't

115
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,080
Speaker 1: afford it. Simply say fourteen ninety nine a month, and

116
00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:10,520
Speaker 1: if you go to simply safe dot com slash Nancy,

117
00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:13,880
Speaker 1: you get ten percent off. There is no real reason

118
00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,080
Speaker 1: not to have home security, especially when you have children

119
00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,360
Speaker 1: that you need to protect like I do. Simply say,

120
00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,520
Speaker 1: thank you, Okay, Alan Duke the duke with me, Alan,

121
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,000
Speaker 1: you understand that's his whole defense, Okay, that he was

122
00:08:29,040 --> 00:08:32,960
Speaker 1: afraid the guy was gonna attack him. He threw his

123
00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:35,960
Speaker 1: popcorn at him. I think that's a pretty good sign.

124
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,240
Speaker 1: That's all you're gonna get. If that's all you got

125
00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,960
Speaker 1: is you throw some buttered popcorn at somebody, you shoot him.

126
00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:45,280
Speaker 1: He also claims that he threw his cell phone at him.

127
00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:47,920
Speaker 1: I just said that, Alan, let's not be redundant. I'm

128
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,040
Speaker 1: saying it. It's not just popcorn, it's also a cell phone.

129
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,680
Speaker 1: Have you looked to the video? Yes, I have. You

130
00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:55,960
Speaker 1: can't really tell a lot from that grain. Even well,

131
00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,720
Speaker 1: I can see the popcorn get thrown, and then I

132
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:03,040
Speaker 1: can see him this Reeves stretch out his arm and

133
00:09:03,120 --> 00:09:08,480
Speaker 1: shoots straight ahead. He shot the guy in the chest dead. Okay. Now,

134
00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:12,000
Speaker 1: the defense claims that they have enhanced the video and

135
00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,560
Speaker 1: that you can see the screen of the phone going

136
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:20,920
Speaker 1: toward Reeves. I can't see that. It was pointed out

137
00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,440
Speaker 1: that a cell phone is the weight of a baseball,

138
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:26,800
Speaker 1: and can you imagine getting hit by a baseball? Can

139
00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 1: you imagine getting shot in the chest? No? Okay, think

140
00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 1: about it. Here's the problem with the stand your ground law.

141
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,400
Speaker 1: Cannot believe here or taking the side of the shooter.

142
00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,160
Speaker 1: I'm pointing something. Yes you are, Yes, you are pointing

143
00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:43,560
Speaker 1: it out that the stand your ground law in Florida.

144
00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:46,839
Speaker 1: Is the problem with it is it says that a

145
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:49,520
Speaker 1: person may use deadly force and self defense if he

146
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,839
Speaker 1: or she reasonably believes that such force is necessary to

147
00:09:54,840 --> 00:10:00,800
Speaker 1: prevent imminent death or great bodily harm, if you reasonably leave. Now,

148
00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,560
Speaker 1: this man, and he's not a young man, but he's

149
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,000
Speaker 1: an experienced law enforcement officer, says he reasonably believed that

150
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:11,080
Speaker 1: that cell phone and that popcorn might be followed with

151
00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,400
Speaker 1: a fist, and who knows what else. Oh, good gravy.

152
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:16,920
Speaker 1: You know. I'm looking at the crime scene photos right

153
00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,959
Speaker 1: now at the Grove Cobb sixteen theater and Wesley Chapel,

154
00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,800
Speaker 1: and I see the popcorn, but I don't see a

155
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,800
Speaker 1: cell phone on the ground. Where's the cell phone? If

156
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,640
Speaker 1: he threw a cell phone, where is it. I don't

157
00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,520
Speaker 1: think that the investigators believed there was a cell phone

158
00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 1: that was thrown, But that's what he says he thought happened.

159
00:10:35,720 --> 00:10:38,040
Speaker 1: I don't see one. Well, he should know if he

160
00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,560
Speaker 1: got hit in the face. His wife didn't see him

161
00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:42,720
Speaker 1: get hit in the face. He's sitting right beside. The

162
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:46,080
Speaker 1: problem is that he shot him dead. The problem is

163
00:10:46,120 --> 00:10:50,440
Speaker 1: the standard is if you reasonably believe that you're about

164
00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,640
Speaker 1: to be killed or or suffer a great bodily harm,

165
00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 1: and it's all in your mind. What if you know

166
00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,600
Speaker 1: this whole thing with the standard ground Florida law, if

167
00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,560
Speaker 1: you're raid of a certain type of person, let's say

168
00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,840
Speaker 1: a person of a certain race or size or whatever.

169
00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 1: Both of these people were white, don't try to drag

170
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,840
Speaker 1: race to do it. That's what makes this thing so

171
00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 1: simple and to the point. Quote, that's when the pistol

172
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 1: came out, When it just came out on its own,

173
00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:21,320
Speaker 1: out of your little pocket, started firing itself. Remember the

174
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,800
Speaker 1: cartoon quick Drawma Graw. He's just really fast. You know.

175
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I used to practice drawing

176
00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,760
Speaker 1: my toy pistol out of my toy holster to see

177
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,040
Speaker 1: how fast I can. This guy was a retired police officer,

178
00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:38,400
Speaker 1: and he was really quick. Twenty seven years with the

179
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,600
Speaker 1: Tampa Police Department. Oh oh, let me tell you something

180
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,840
Speaker 1: else I learned in the testimony alan So Police. I

181
00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,080
Speaker 1: guess it was a sheriff. He had on a sheriff's uniform.

182
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: Came in to testify, and he says he got there

183
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:55,560
Speaker 1: and he heard the wife reeves the police captain's wife

184
00:11:55,679 --> 00:12:00,240
Speaker 1: say you shouldn't have shot him over that, and that

185
00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:03,560
Speaker 1: Reeves turned to his wife and said, shut the f up. Yeah,

186
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,240
Speaker 1: where the wives always have to stick their opinion in

187
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:12,040
Speaker 1: on something like this. You're quiet, you know what, Alan?

188
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,440
Speaker 1: You like that ponytailing you down on the back of

189
00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 1: your head because I got a little pair of scissors

190
00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,560
Speaker 1: and I can snippy snippy a lot of things, a

191
00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,720
Speaker 1: lot of appendages. Alan. You talk about stand your ground,

192
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:27,960
Speaker 1: but what about standing by your man. She's telling the truth,

193
00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,640
Speaker 1: she's telling the truth. You don't have to shoot him.

194
00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,200
Speaker 1: What is he going around with a gun in the

195
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,840
Speaker 1: movie theater anyway? Now that's a whole right to bear

196
00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,000
Speaker 1: arms argument. I'm not going to get into because but

197
00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,920
Speaker 1: it just shows that you need to have a gun

198
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,120
Speaker 1: in a theater because somebody else might have a gun. Well,

199
00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 1: here's the other thing about stand your ground. If you

200
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,920
Speaker 1: start or provoke the confrontation, even if you then become

201
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,320
Speaker 1: reasonably in fear, if you started the whole thing, you

202
00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:59,160
Speaker 1: cannot claim stand your ground. You can't start it. And

203
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,280
Speaker 1: then when they fight back, say oh I'm scared and

204
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:04,520
Speaker 1: shoot the person dead. It doesn't work like that. So

205
00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:07,760
Speaker 1: you think he started it because he didn't he objected

206
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,360
Speaker 1: to the guy using his phone in the theater, which

207
00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:12,360
Speaker 1: is an annoying thing. I'll tell you why I think

208
00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:15,040
Speaker 1: he started it because he has been a police captain

209
00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,640
Speaker 1: for many, many years, and he's retired, and he's not

210
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,560
Speaker 1: used to anybody saying no, no, I'm not gonna do

211
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:24,720
Speaker 1: what you said. And he got buttered popcorn thrown on

212
00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,120
Speaker 1: him and it was just too much for him, and

213
00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,400
Speaker 1: he shot the guy. That is really what I think.

214
00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 1: That is what I think happened. His wife cannot corroborate

215
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 1: that he was hit in any way. Olson's wife cannot

216
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:40,560
Speaker 1: corroborate that her husband hit Reeves in any way. And

217
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,600
Speaker 1: let me tell you something. Olson left behind a wife

218
00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 1: and a family in thirty seconds. This woman's life changed forever. Yes,

219
00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,800
Speaker 1: her husband shot dead in front of her. He is

220
00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:55,960
Speaker 1: never going to come home again. He's got a family

221
00:13:55,960 --> 00:13:59,760
Speaker 1: that will never see their father again because of seventy

222
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:05,240
Speaker 1: four year old retired police captain Curtis Reeves that one

223
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,920
Speaker 1: moment of lack of self control, of lack of restraint,

224
00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 1: and he left this father, this husband, this good man

225
00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,760
Speaker 1: dead and Nicole was shot to Nicole Olson, the wife

226
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:22,280
Speaker 1: the wife. She was shot in the arm actually the

227
00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,480
Speaker 1: last excuse me, in the hand and on the finger

228
00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:28,000
Speaker 1: with her wedding ring that finger. She just sits in

229
00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,560
Speaker 1: court like she's in a daze, the victim's wife all

230
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,560
Speaker 1: over what I guess ego, I'm not really sure, but

231
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:41,080
Speaker 1: I will do a complete back flip, back flip if

232
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,920
Speaker 1: this guy gets to claim stand your ground is just wrong.

233
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:47,080
Speaker 1: If he wants to go to court to trial in

234
00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 1: front of a jury and claim I reasonably thought I

235
00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,080
Speaker 1: was being attacked and this is self defense, then try

236
00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:55,880
Speaker 1: it with a jury. But this needs to go to

237
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:59,280
Speaker 1: a jury to hear all the facts, because if he

238
00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,320
Speaker 1: wins right now now, it's not even going to a

239
00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,520
Speaker 1: jury trial. And I don't like that at all, not

240
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,000
Speaker 1: at all. Alan TJ. Grimaldi is with us Nicole's lawyer.

241
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,840
Speaker 1: He has been sitting in court with her throughout. TJ,

242
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 1: thanks so much for being with us here at Crime Stories.

243
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:18,240
Speaker 1: How is Nicole Olsen? How's she holding up? You know,

244
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:23,080
Speaker 1: I'll tell you she was doing great when this whole

245
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,920
Speaker 1: thing started, meaning much better than I would have expected.

246
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,080
Speaker 1: As it got closer in time for her to testify

247
00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 1: last week, it became difficult on her You could tell

248
00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:36,120
Speaker 1: that she was reliving it again in her mind right

249
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:38,800
Speaker 1: before taking the stand, and you could tell that she

250
00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:43,840
Speaker 1: was nervous as she didn't exactly know what was coming

251
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: her way question wise, and then she was fine again

252
00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,920
Speaker 1: until mister Reeves took the stand, and that was very

253
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,120
Speaker 1: very difficult for her to hear. Not only was she

254
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,320
Speaker 1: having to relive it again and hear it from the

255
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:04,320
Speaker 1: person who murdered her husband's mouth, but the things that

256
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:08,520
Speaker 1: were coming out of his mouth, either the lies in

257
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:12,480
Speaker 1: her opinion or the changes of his story, really got

258
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,400
Speaker 1: to her and you could tell was very very tough

259
00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 1: for her to handle. What do you make of Reeves's

260
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 1: demeanor on the stand? I disagree with the standard ground

261
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:23,920
Speaker 1: defense in his case. I don't think it applies because

262
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: I think he provoked this. I could tell he was

263
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,600
Speaker 1: very measured and in control on the stand. What did

264
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,240
Speaker 1: you think? I think from the outset you could tell

265
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:37,960
Speaker 1: that his responses were extremely rehearsed, and I think you

266
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,760
Speaker 1: can tell that for two reasons. One, he's obviously a

267
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,640
Speaker 1: seasoned law enforcement officer, so he knows how to answer

268
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 1: questions and probably did have to answer questions back when

269
00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,080
Speaker 1: he was a law enforcement officer, and then he's obviously

270
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 1: been very well coached by his current attorney. In my opinion,

271
00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:02,720
Speaker 1: did not have much, if any emotion other than when

272
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,960
Speaker 1: he was talking about the fact that he had children

273
00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:08,919
Speaker 1: any help raise them and when he had cancer. Beyond that,

274
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,760
Speaker 1: I thought absolutely no emotion with his answer. In fact,

275
00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:14,760
Speaker 1: he might have stated that he was in fear, but

276
00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:17,639
Speaker 1: other than stating the words I was in fear for

277
00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:20,480
Speaker 1: my life or I thought that it was a life

278
00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,080
Speaker 1: or death situation, I had no feeling that that's truly

279
00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:29,159
Speaker 1: what he felt. More importantly, the defense tried to drive

280
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 1: home that missus Reeves was in fear of her life

281
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,480
Speaker 1: and because they were married for so long, he should

282
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,840
Speaker 1: know about her fear, and therefore he was using staniard

283
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,040
Speaker 1: ground not only to protect himself but to protect her.

284
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 1: And you could he never brought that up, so any

285
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:49,760
Speaker 1: fear that she may have had, he didn't know about it. Lastly,

286
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 1: I completely agree that staniard ground is not should not

287
00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,359
Speaker 1: be used in this case. However, I also feel that

288
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,520
Speaker 1: it's the only chance they have to try to beat

289
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:05,639
Speaker 1: the charges. How is the whole family doing It's not

290
00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:10,960
Speaker 1: just the why. There's children involved. Luckily they're the child.

291
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,600
Speaker 1: The young daughter is young enough to the point where

292
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 1: she doesn't quite understand what's going on. You know, she

293
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 1: definitely knows that Dad's not around anymore, but beyond that,

294
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 1: I think she's still young enough to where she's not

295
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:30,679
Speaker 1: really quite grasping why Dad is gone and what is

296
00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 1: happening now. For these extended two weeks period, the extended

297
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 1: family beyond the children are having difficult times as well.

298
00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:46,040
Speaker 1: His mother, his meaning Chad's mother. Chad's sisters have been

299
00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:49,280
Speaker 1: there the entire time, and Chad's brother has recently come

300
00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:53,240
Speaker 1: this week, and they're having a very difficult time hearing

301
00:18:53,320 --> 00:18:57,040
Speaker 1: what they're hearing, seeing what they're seeing, and just being

302
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:02,080
Speaker 1: exposed to the entire trial, for lack of a better term,

303
00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:05,680
Speaker 1: just because they haven't been as inundated as Nicole has

304
00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:08,440
Speaker 1: from the beginning with this, but it has definitely taken

305
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 1: the toll on the entire family, Nicole's brothers included. I

306
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 1: don't understand why Race was not charged with murder one

307
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 1: as as opposed to just murder two to start with.

308
00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:22,840
Speaker 1: What was behind that? You know, obviously I'm not a prosecutor,

309
00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 1: so I'm not really privy to their charging recommendations and

310
00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:32,000
Speaker 1: charging decisions. However, in my opinion, and especially based on

311
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,240
Speaker 1: the Casey Anthony trial in particular, I felt that the

312
00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 1: state attorney felt confident in just charging murder two because

313
00:19:41,280 --> 00:19:45,240
Speaker 1: they knew they could get that conviction. Murder one would

314
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,119
Speaker 1: be as equated to the Casey Anthony, where they were

315
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:50,720
Speaker 1: shooting for the stars to get the largest possible conviction

316
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: they could when it was unnecessary here for two reasons. One,

317
00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: murder two is much easier for them to prove because

318
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,880
Speaker 1: I leave of the premeditation issue. And number two, there's

319
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 1: a mandatory minimum in Florida of twenty five years for

320
00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 1: murder of the second degree with a firearm and a

321
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,080
Speaker 1: mandatory minimum of twenty years twenty five for the murder

322
00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,160
Speaker 1: and twenty years for the assault with a deadly weapon. So,

323
00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,320
Speaker 1: because of his age, no matter what they get, he's

324
00:20:21,359 --> 00:20:24,639
Speaker 1: gonna he's gonna see his last days while he's in prison.

325
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:30,400
Speaker 1: Now what happens next, Well, the state has two more days.

326
00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 1: Unless this thing continues on. Beyond that, the state has

327
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 1: two more days to close their case. Then the judge will,

328
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:42,160
Speaker 1: I am more than sure, takes some time before she

329
00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,560
Speaker 1: enters her order. I do not believe she's going to

330
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,920
Speaker 1: enter her order Friday afternoon or immediately following whatever the

331
00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:53,800
Speaker 1: hearing closes for that matter. If it does finish Friday,

332
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: I would assume, you know, hopefully earlier this morning week,

333
00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,520
Speaker 1: we would have her findings and her order, whether it's

334
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: just a verbal announcement or some written order with an explanation.

335
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: I am hoping for and still assuming that that order

336
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 1: and result will be that she is denying the motion

337
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,240
Speaker 1: for staying your ground. At that point, the defense obviously

338
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,399
Speaker 1: has a couple decisions to make. Do they have appealable

339
00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:23,760
Speaker 1: issues and do they try to appeal the order of

340
00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 1: the court. Do they start talking a plea or do

341
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,720
Speaker 1: they start preparing for trial. Then, in the alternative, if

342
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,280
Speaker 1: she somehow grants this motion, which again I cannot see happening,

343
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,919
Speaker 1: the state would have to determine if they could can

344
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,000
Speaker 1: and would appeal the order. TJ. Please pass on to

345
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: Miss Olson that I feel so bad for her and

346
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:51,200
Speaker 1: have lifted her up in prayers. I just can't imagine

347
00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: going to the theater, finally getting to go out with

348
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: your husband and go see a movie and you've got

349
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: the babysitter and the whole thing lined up, and he

350
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 1: dies right in front of you in a dark theater.

351
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:08,040
Speaker 1: It's just almost too much to take in over texting, TJ,

352
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,639
Speaker 1: thanks so much, thank you for the kind words, and

353
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: thank you very much for having me on. Now we

354
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 1: all know the famous standier ground defense with George Zimmerman,

355
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 1: who gunned down eighteen boy Trayvon Martin. Zimmerman, the captain

356
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: of the neighborhood Watch, basically follows the teen around and

357
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:31,480
Speaker 1: then when the teen turns on him, he shoots him dead.

358
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,680
Speaker 1: A jury actually acquitted George Zimmerman. I still don't understand

359
00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 1: how that happened. But then, just six months after Zimmerman's acquittal,

360
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:45,439
Speaker 1: which triggered a lot of anger over Florida's standier ground law,

361
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 1: there was another case. This one was over Michael Dunn. Now,

362
00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:53,440
Speaker 1: Dunn was accused of killing a seventeen year old boy,

363
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: Jordan Davis, after having an argument with him about Jordan

364
00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 1: Davis's loud music in a conveny store parking lot. Seriously,

365
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:07,360
Speaker 1: I mean now that was actually a murder accusation as

366
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 1: opposed to them one we're talking about right now, which

367
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: is a murder two experts have disagreed on Florida's stand

368
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,520
Speaker 1: your ground law. To me, it sounds like a hyped

369
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: up self defense. Now, in Done, there was a conviction.

370
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: There was a conviction in that one Dune's behavior after

371
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 1: he shoots Jordan dead. He and his girlfriend go check

372
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,160
Speaker 1: into a hotel and have drinks and I think they

373
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,960
Speaker 1: had dinner. I just like there was no remorse whatsoever

374
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,400
Speaker 1: after that, which I think played right into the prosecution's story.

375
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:42,719
Speaker 1: I mean, they left the scene. I don't think that

376
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 1: helped now here. Reeves did not leave the scene. He

377
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,080
Speaker 1: sat there. But I think there's been a big backlash

378
00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 1: against stand your ground. Alan two cases you've mentioned, the

379
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 1: Done case and then the Zimmerman case had racial implications

380
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 1: and that complicated emotions and the whole debate. But this

381
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: one is much different in the way that you look

382
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:10,679
Speaker 1: at it simply because you can't say, well, it was

383
00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,639
Speaker 1: a racially motivated shooting. Can we just take the race

384
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:18,919
Speaker 1: out of it and talk about the facts. Because in Done,

385
00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:22,239
Speaker 1: what he said to his girlfriend is I hate that

386
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: thug music. All that worked against him as it should have,

387
00:24:27,080 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: as it should have, But the leaving and going to

388
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: a hotel and having a couple of drinks after you

389
00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:38,840
Speaker 1: shoot somebody. I mean, dang, that hurts. So we're on

390
00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 1: pins and needles waiting to see where the standard ground

391
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: defense goes with this retire police captain who was pretty

392
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: darnad somebody threw popcorn in his face, so he shot

393
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:54,120
Speaker 1: him dead. If he does get off on this, that

394
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 1: miracle that you say will not happen happens, and the

395
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: judge sides with this guy. If it does, what does

396
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:03,520
Speaker 1: it say to other people and what does it mean

397
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 1: for the future. The floodgates will open. You'll have stand

398
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,760
Speaker 1: your ground defenses all over the state of Florida. That's

399
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: what will happen. And justice will not prevail. That is

400
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: what will happen. Will it cause people to be quicker?

401
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,240
Speaker 1: They will be emboldened, They will be emboldened. Okay, we're

402
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:22,639
Speaker 1: on pins and needles waiting for the latest out of

403
00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: that courtroom there in Florida. And again, before we sign off,

404
00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: thank you Simply Safe for making our podcast possible. Our

405
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:35,760
Speaker 1: podcast that is examining the Florida law stand your ground

406
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:42,360
Speaker 1: that has created so much fure, are and dissension amongst

407
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: legal experts and court watchers. Alike. It's a very very

408
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: difficult concept to grasp. But not only that it seems

409
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:56,200
Speaker 1: to be applied unevenly. Simply Safe gives all of us

410
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,760
Speaker 1: a chance to have affordable home security, and I am

411
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: very proud that they are our podcast sponsor. Not only

412
00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: that it's so easy to install, John David, My nine

413
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: year old son could do it. They give you a

414
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: video online to do it. And I'm just relieved that

415
00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 1: they have come through and filled the gap for so

416
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 1: many people that want home security that think they cannot

417
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: afford it. Thank you, Simply Safe. Nancy Grace Crime Stories

418
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: signing off our eye on a Florida courtroom. Goodbye friend,