Speaker 1: I am a younger your host for this journey. I
Speaker 1: was a hopeless love aholic but just could not get
Speaker 1: my love to work. Then, after a series of heartbreaks
Speaker 1: and deep heartache, I finally got clear about what love
Speaker 1: is and what it is not. I want to share
Speaker 1: some of what I've learned about love aholism. Welcome to
Speaker 1: the Our Spot, a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership
Speaker 1: with I Heart Radio. My question for you today is
Speaker 1: how do you know when it's time to go? Sometimes
Speaker 1: you know it's time to go, but there's a part
Speaker 1: of you that wants to work it out. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: know it's time to go, but you don't have any
Speaker 1: place to go to. Sometimes you know it's time to go,
Speaker 1: but you just can't make that choice, so you default
Speaker 1: to let me work it out. Sometimes that works, Sometimes
Speaker 1: it doesn't. If you think it's time to go because
Speaker 1: of what you experienced before and you're trying to avoid
Speaker 1: it again, it's not time to go. If you think
Speaker 1: it's time to go but you still see a glimmer
Speaker 1: of hope, something that you can work out, work through,
Speaker 1: and if the other party is willing, then it's not
Speaker 1: time to go yet. If you think it's time to
Speaker 1: go and the other person isn't willing to do the work.
Speaker 1: Start packing. We've got a little bit of summer. All
Speaker 1: of that today, take a listen. Greetings, be love and
Speaker 1: how are you? Welcome to the art spot. I am
Speaker 1: one sol How are you today? I am blessed and
Speaker 1: ready to discuss with you your relationship, challenge, issue, dilemma,
Speaker 1: whatever it is that you're facing. So give me the
Speaker 1: low down. Okay, So back in White, when Kovic started,
Speaker 1: my church had an online small group. The gentleman that
Speaker 1: I'm seeing was on a small group and he said
Speaker 1: that his mother and his stepfather had just passed away
Speaker 1: four days apart, and I offered him my candolences. He
Speaker 1: emailed me after and we started communicating. So in a
Speaker 1: conversation I asked him as he married? He said no,
Speaker 1: and I wasn't married. We just went to all of
Speaker 1: the normal stuff. He told me that his white had
Speaker 1: moved out in two dollars seventeen. We talked about the divorce,
Speaker 1: and we talked about the relationships and everything. So just
Speaker 1: on side day we were talking about another couple um
Speaker 1: that was getting the divorce and he I don't know
Speaker 1: if he was a slip or what. But he told
Speaker 1: me that he just got a divorce a year ago.
Speaker 1: And I'm saying, you told me when I met you
Speaker 1: in twenty twenties that you were divorced. So he said, well,
Speaker 1: you know, in my mind, I was divorced because it
Speaker 1: was two thousand seventeen and just it was just signing
Speaker 1: the papers with just a formality. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if it was a bad judgment call or if it
Speaker 1: was just just because he said he was going through
Speaker 1: so much and he hadn't been one of his wife
Speaker 1: and sentence just two thousands seventeen. But I don't know
Speaker 1: if that it was just the sea or was it
Speaker 1: just a bad judgment call. What does your gut tell you?
Speaker 1: My gut teld tells me that he didn't want to
Speaker 1: say that he was getting a divorce because I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have agreed to that our relationship, you wouldn't have He
Speaker 1: was separated from his wife in were they living together?
Speaker 1: People get separated but they still continue in the same
Speaker 1: household together. So was he living with his wife? How
Speaker 1: do you know that? He told me she moved out
Speaker 1: in two thousands seventeen, and it said it on a divorce.
Speaker 1: It says the separation as of that day. So he
Speaker 1: showed me the paperwork and that he could confirm what
Speaker 1: he said. Okay, so how are you defining marriage? What
Speaker 1: I'm hearing you say is that you met this gentleman
Speaker 1: in your church group. He stated that he was divorced.
Speaker 1: Now you find out that he wasn't divorced at that time,
Speaker 1: but now he is divorced. So in your mind he
Speaker 1: was still married when he started dating you. Is that accurate? Ye?
Speaker 1: It is accurate. Yeah? Okay, So how are you defining married?
Speaker 1: That's a great question because for me, you're not able
Speaker 1: to marry me because you're still tied legally to this woman. That's,
Speaker 1: to me, is a marriage. Okay. You're focused on the paperwork, yes,
Speaker 1: not on his behavior, not on his commitment, not on
Speaker 1: his desire. Okay, So what does your gut tell you?
Speaker 1: Did your gut say that in his mind he was
Speaker 1: done and therefore claimed or called his divorce as it
Speaker 1: was although it wasn't. Are you there? Are are you
Speaker 1: saying this man lied to me? As saying he lied? Okay?
Speaker 1: So there you go. Let me ask you this is
Speaker 1: Are his parents really dead? Yeah? Yeah, Okay, they're really did. Okay,
Speaker 1: So I've been to the cemetery. Now, I don't question
Speaker 1: I know that he is honest whatever he says he does.
Speaker 1: I could call him up right now and say I'm
Speaker 1: coming over, and he'd be like, Okay, come on. It's
Speaker 1: never any secrets or as far as he's showing up
Speaker 1: for me, he's always shown up from me. So I'm
Speaker 1: not questioning that he has some secret life with this
Speaker 1: woman or whatever. My concern is you keeping the important
Speaker 1: thing from me like that to me was huge. So
Speaker 1: you've been to the cemetery to visit his deceased parents. Yeah, open,
Speaker 1: clear access to his domicile. I know you're a church lady,
Speaker 1: but I'm gonna ask you any way. Okay, are you
Speaker 1: any intimate? Yes? Okay, So is your concern that he
Speaker 1: lied or is your concern that he committed adultery? Church lady? Both? Yes?
Speaker 1: And so you did too? Okay, Yes, here's another question.
Speaker 1: How long before meeting him? How long were you single?
Speaker 1: Seven years? Seven years and your previous relationship ended? Why
Speaker 1: a lie? Lying man? Okay, a lying man. So are
Speaker 1: you concerned about this man's lie or are you concerned
Speaker 1: that you're getting ready to repeat what you went through before. Well,
Speaker 1: our first companion is that I didn't get the opportunity,
Speaker 1: didn't say yes or no. And I'm also I do
Speaker 1: have a concern about him. Him may not being honest
Speaker 1: going forward. Okay, so leave him, tell him you're done.
Speaker 1: He lied and you're done. I'm done, I'm out. Go ahead.
Speaker 1: Do that? Is that something you're willing to do? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't want to. Well, but you're willing to end
Speaker 1: this relationship with a man who's proving himself to be supportive,
Speaker 1: a man you obviously get along with, a man you're
Speaker 1: intimate with, a man that you care a lot about,
Speaker 1: and you're looking at something he said to you two
Speaker 1: years ago and holding him and by all means you
Speaker 1: should hold him accountable for it. But that could be
Speaker 1: a conversation that doesn't have to be a big deal.
Speaker 1: And it just feels to me I could be very
Speaker 1: wrong that your previous experience is bleeding into this experience
Speaker 1: that you're looking for and expecting. And what I would
Speaker 1: offer is, this is a conversation. It really has trouble
Speaker 1: to me that you told me you were divorced when
Speaker 1: you were it and I get it, so you think
Speaker 1: he should see it the way you see it. I said,
Speaker 1: I even in my own life, I said I was
Speaker 1: divorced before the papers were signed, because I was done.
Speaker 1: I was out, he was gone. I was gone, I
Speaker 1: was seeing somebody else. So in my mind, I was divorced.
Speaker 1: I didn't even say divorced. I said my bridge is over.
Speaker 1: So I'm just asking you to consider that. When he
Speaker 1: said that, it could have been from his frame of
Speaker 1: mind and not in intent to deceive. Now, if he
Speaker 1: was not moving forward in his relationship with you, if
Speaker 1: he was sneaking around the bushes going back over there,
Speaker 1: that I would say, you have some concerns. I would
Speaker 1: let him know how much that troubled you. I would
Speaker 1: let him know that you've been through that in your
Speaker 1: previous marriage. And I would let him know, I'm drawing
Speaker 1: my line in the sand. Is there anything else you
Speaker 1: need to tell me? Because if I find out later
Speaker 1: I'm out. Good. Yes, draw your line in the sand,
Speaker 1: but do it from a place of clear, open communication,
Speaker 1: sharing with him how it made you feel, why it
Speaker 1: is so troubling to you, and then let him know
Speaker 1: this is a boundary that you creating. And if he
Speaker 1: crosses that boundary again. If there's other things you find
Speaker 1: out that he didn't tell you accurately, or forgot to
Speaker 1: tell you, or chose not to tell you, that you out.
Speaker 1: I'm out. That's a boundary. Okay, that makes sense. And
Speaker 1: I'm glad because I didn't think about it fully as
Speaker 1: far as what the marriage need to me. And clearly
Speaker 1: it's not just a piece of paper. And he said
Speaker 1: to me, he did say that in his heart he
Speaker 1: was already divorced. Yeah, tell him the importance of truth
Speaker 1: speaking for you. Truth speaking is very important. And you
Speaker 1: were in about adultery, church lady, what about fornication? But
Speaker 1: you wanted to be clean fornication, right, you don't want
Speaker 1: to be fordication with a married man. Oh, take your
Speaker 1: fornication and be happy. Thank you so much. Help me
Speaker 1: clear clean communication, draw your boundary, communicate that boundary, communicate
Speaker 1: the consequence of the boundary, and do not allow your
Speaker 1: past to infect your future. Mm hmm. That's a good one. Okay, Okay, alright,
Speaker 1: my life you so much. I appreciate your time. It
Speaker 1: was an honor. Yeah, and and have fun. Send me
Speaker 1: a wedding invitation, all right? Thank you? Have a great
Speaker 1: rest of your death. You to my love, Bye bye.
Speaker 1: I remember the song there's a thin line between love
Speaker 1: and hate, But I also whish someone had made a
Speaker 1: song that there's a thin line between the truth and
Speaker 1: a lie. The challenges that what is true for me,
Speaker 1: based on my experience, based on my state of mind,
Speaker 1: based on my perception, may not be true for you.
Speaker 1: And very often we think that the way we hold
Speaker 1: the truth tell the truth as we know it. It's
Speaker 1: the same for everybody, and it's not if we don't
Speaker 1: ask the right question. If we're not willing to give
Speaker 1: someone the benefit of the doubt and hear their experience
Speaker 1: as the truth for them, that then line between the
Speaker 1: truth and a lie can be blurred. And when that happens,
Speaker 1: the result is confusion. And we'll talk about back when
Speaker 1: we come back. Welcome back to the ourt spot. One
Speaker 1: of the hardest things to navigate when you're in relationship
Speaker 1: with someone is how to be in relationship with the
Speaker 1: people they're in relationship with. Not a manage atoire where
Speaker 1: everybody is willing to co operate, you know, but if
Speaker 1: your partner comes with a history, your partner is still
Speaker 1: in relationship with people who will end up in your
Speaker 1: relationship not. A real hard work in that situation is
Speaker 1: to understand what is my role, what is my level
Speaker 1: of participation in the relationships that my partners in relationship with.
Speaker 1: It can be hard to figure out, but it can
Speaker 1: be done. And the big thing is your first priority
Speaker 1: is your relationship to yourself, and then your relationship with
Speaker 1: your partner and everybody else you get to choose how
Speaker 1: to be in relationship with that. My next guest is
Speaker 1: a classic example of how to be a relationship with someone.
Speaker 1: Your partner is in relationship with. Good afternoon, beloved, and
Speaker 1: what is the challenge, issue, dilemma that you're bringing to
Speaker 1: the table today. We're going to chew on whatever is presented.
Speaker 1: I am with a partner. We've been together almost two years.
Speaker 1: I'm thirty, he's forty three. I don't want kids to
Speaker 1: never have never changed my mind. He has three and
Speaker 1: actually one he's never met, so a total of four
Speaker 1: children from previous relationship. And I just find myself struggling
Speaker 1: with having to deal with not necessarily the kids, but
Speaker 1: the fact that there's always going to be another woman present,
Speaker 1: the mother. They share something that I will never share
Speaker 1: with him. So I just I find myself getting stuck,
Speaker 1: getting jealous, always thinking about it. He has the texture.
Speaker 1: It bothers me. So I'm just trying to figure out
Speaker 1: why I can't just let go of that. Well, maybe
Speaker 1: because you're asking the wrong question. If you don't want children,
Speaker 1: how is it that you've attracted a man who will
Speaker 1: bring children into your life? I'm not sure. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is someone that I fully want to be with.
Speaker 1: I I love the way I'm treated, I love the
Speaker 1: partnership we have. But yeah, good question. The children are not.
Speaker 1: I think what bothers me the most. I think it's
Speaker 1: like the connection to another woman who's always going to
Speaker 1: be involved. I don't know if that makes sense. No,
Speaker 1: it makes perfectly good sense. The question is how are
Speaker 1: you defining connection? What I feel is that she, the
Speaker 1: mother of the three girls, still has maybe control, and
Speaker 1: I feel like there's this level of controlling my partner,
Speaker 1: perhaps that I don't appreciate. I feel like I'm in
Speaker 1: a relationship with not only him, but her behavior also.
Speaker 1: But are you in relationship with her? No? Why not?
Speaker 1: Why aren't you in relationship with the mother of children
Speaker 1: that will be in your home with their father? Because
Speaker 1: that's a piece of his heart. His children are a
Speaker 1: peace of his heart, and so if you're an intimate
Speaker 1: relationship with him, you want to be able to share
Speaker 1: all of his heart. Although you've never been a parent,
Speaker 1: there are some things that parents feel and experience and
Speaker 1: go through, and this is your partner. You want to
Speaker 1: be able to be the soft place for him to
Speaker 1: fall when his heart is affected in any way. So
Speaker 1: my question is why haven't you made the moves to
Speaker 1: develop a relationship with her. It's difficult because she doesn't
Speaker 1: even really give him access to his children very often,
Speaker 1: so forming a relationship with her is pretty much unaccessible
Speaker 1: at this point. She only texts, she doesn't call, So
Speaker 1: why is it an issue if she barely has communication,
Speaker 1: what is this connection that you seem to be so
Speaker 1: disturbed about when there is communication or access is totally
Speaker 1: controlled by her. I guess what affects me is my
Speaker 1: partner not standing up for himself maybe and letting that
Speaker 1: control happen. He can into a little puppy and becomes
Speaker 1: really sad, and really it upsets me to see my
Speaker 1: partner being treated in that way. But I'm also upset
Speaker 1: at him because he kind of lets it happen. I
Speaker 1: was just going to say, are you open to the
Speaker 1: possibility that this has nothing to do with the mother
Speaker 1: or the children, It has to do with a side
Speaker 1: that you see in your partner that you're not accepting
Speaker 1: A yes, ma'am. Yeah, okay, so that's the issue. You're
Speaker 1: trying to blame the poor children and their mama. No, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: And it may be an opportunity for you to have
Speaker 1: a different level of conversation with him. Have you shared
Speaker 1: with him that it hurts me when I see you
Speaker 1: bow down to this level of abuse and manipulation. Have
Speaker 1: you ever shared that with him? Yes, very very much so,
Speaker 1: which is kind of why I'm stuck, because I feel
Speaker 1: like that message is not being heard. And how do
Speaker 1: you share it? What do you say? Because it's a
Speaker 1: difference between saying why do you let her talk to
Speaker 1: you like that? Why do you put her through that?
Speaker 1: And saying to him, come here, sweetie, I gotta tell
Speaker 1: you how it pains me to see you submit yourself
Speaker 1: to this level, to a level of abuse and manipulation. See,
Speaker 1: I'm a woman, I know how women operate, and maybe
Speaker 1: because your children are involved, you don't recognize that she
Speaker 1: is abusing you and manipulating you, and it hurts me.
Speaker 1: And I want us to come up with a plan,
Speaker 1: a process, an approach so that I don't have to
Speaker 1: watch this anymore. Have you tried that approach? I? I have,
Speaker 1: and there's been a bit of both. There has been
Speaker 1: the like you said at the beginning, how can you
Speaker 1: put up with this? I've tried both approaches, But is
Speaker 1: response is keeping the peace to continue to have access.
Speaker 1: So basically, I'm gonna let her abuse with me to
Speaker 1: keep the peace. I feel like that's the response I get.
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. We'll talk more about it when we come back.
Speaker 1: Welcome back to the art spot. So I don't know,
Speaker 1: as his intimate partner, how you can support him, encourage him,
Speaker 1: invite him to just get to the point where to
Speaker 1: save his dignity as a man, Because if he has
Speaker 1: a relationship with the children, he does, and when they
Speaker 1: are no longer under the authority of their mother, they'll
Speaker 1: look for him. They will if he has a relationship
Speaker 1: with that. But when he does, when they come, he
Speaker 1: wants to meet them as a man of dignity and honor,
Speaker 1: not as a broken puppy. So your work, COMMND Arlen,
Speaker 1: that's your work. That's your work to be there with him,
Speaker 1: to encourage him not to get angry, not to get upset,
Speaker 1: not to put your mouth on it or in it,
Speaker 1: but just to constantly share with him, honestly and authentically
Speaker 1: what it feels like, it looks like for you, because
Speaker 1: if he barely has contact with them now, you know what,
Speaker 1: what does he stand to lose? Exactly? And I've made
Speaker 1: that comment also, we barely have access now, and yeah,
Speaker 1: there's not much to lose. So why are you so
Speaker 1: afraid to stand up for yourself? Wrong question? Why are
Speaker 1: you so afraid? Delete that from your consciousness? Never ask
Speaker 1: a man why is he afraid? Okay, that's a bad question.
Speaker 1: Don't ask him that he's going to lose his mind.
Speaker 1: Another possibility is I love you and it hurts me
Speaker 1: to watch you surrender to your dignity and self respect
Speaker 1: to someone who's abusing you. How can I support you
Speaker 1: in doing this different? And then if that doesn't work,
Speaker 1: create the boundary. You know what I've asked you, I've
Speaker 1: offered to support you. I'm willing to support you, and
Speaker 1: you seem to enjoy this. It's too hard for me,
Speaker 1: so here's my request. I don't want to hear about it.
Speaker 1: If you want to continue to do this with her,
Speaker 1: that's fine, that's your choice. I don't want to hear
Speaker 1: about it. I tried to do that, but I feel
Speaker 1: like that makes me like dismissed his kids in his life.
Speaker 1: And is that like I don't want to hear about them.
Speaker 1: You're making that up. No, they're not saying you don't
Speaker 1: want to hear about two children. What you're saying is
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear about you surrendering your dignity
Speaker 1: and self respect to someone that is clearly abusing you.
Speaker 1: I don't want to hear about that. Now, if you
Speaker 1: want a different approach to this, if you want me
Speaker 1: to talk to her, maybe she'll let me have a
Speaker 1: relationship with the children. What you are doing is establishing
Speaker 1: a boundary, a boundary. If you don't have a relationship
Speaker 1: with the woman, I don't know what your relationship is
Speaker 1: like with the children. Then the only relationship that you
Speaker 1: can participate in is your relationship with him. And how
Speaker 1: he's addressing this is impacting your relationship with him, and
Speaker 1: you have a right to speak about that. You're not
Speaker 1: dismissing him. And when you say I feel like I am,
Speaker 1: now that's not a feeling, that's a thought. A feeling
Speaker 1: is only one word. So I feel bad when I
Speaker 1: don't let him talk to me about it. But I'm
Speaker 1: willing to feel bad rather than participate in this. Okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know he has to invite you into it in
Speaker 1: another way. Yeah, and I'm waiting for that. What I
Speaker 1: want to encourage you is to rewire this in your
Speaker 1: brain because this isn't about him having children. This is
Speaker 1: about an incomplete dysfunctional relationship with the mother of his children.
Speaker 1: That's what this is about. This isn't about the children.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen the children? Have they been to
Speaker 1: your house? You know who they are? Do they know you? Yes?
Speaker 1: But a handful of time very rare. Okay Again, possibility
Speaker 1: is that he become willing. He hasn't said clear boundaries
Speaker 1: with the children's mother. So maybe you help him by
Speaker 1: demonstrating what a clear boundary looks like. And that boundary
Speaker 1: is if you're not willing to do this differently, if
Speaker 1: you're not willing to allow us to come up with
Speaker 1: a way you can approach the and if you are
Speaker 1: still willing to allow your self respect and your dignity
Speaker 1: to be dishonored. I'm not willing to participate in that.
Speaker 1: That's the boundary, and what he does is is his business.
Speaker 1: But you don't have to discuss it. You don't have
Speaker 1: to talk about it when it happen and he goes
Speaker 1: into depression. Okay, let me know how long you're gonna
Speaker 1: be depressed about that because you keep doing it the
Speaker 1: same way and now it's interfering with our relationship. You
Speaker 1: got twenty four hours. I'll see it in back. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. It sounds like a hard line to draw
Speaker 1: in the sand, but it's a line that protects you
Speaker 1: since he's not willing to do it differently. Otherwise it's
Speaker 1: gonna happen. Is you just be complaining about this forever
Speaker 1: and giving this woman power in your relationship that you
Speaker 1: don't even know who she is exactly. I know that's
Speaker 1: what is going on, and I wanted to stop. Their
Speaker 1: relationship is obviously incomplete. I don't know how he left
Speaker 1: or how they broke up or what happened, but it's incomplete.
Speaker 1: But that's none of your business, nor is it any
Speaker 1: of my business. So I'm gonna shut my mom yeah,
Speaker 1: and we are from a small town, so I this
Speaker 1: is a woman that I actually is from a town
Speaker 1: close to where I grew up, so I know her parents.
Speaker 1: I don't know her, but there's a lot of knowledge
Speaker 1: to her when you're from a small place. So even
Speaker 1: if you don't I don't have a relationship with her,
Speaker 1: I know a lot about her and her family and
Speaker 1: her upbringing. So there's a a bit of a more
Speaker 1: knowledge than maybe the average person would have about an
Speaker 1: ex spouse. It's called gossip. Get out of the gossip
Speaker 1: that a none of your business. Get on the same
Speaker 1: side of the table with your partner and invite him
Speaker 1: to be on the same side with you. And if
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to get on the same side with you,
Speaker 1: and if he wants to continue to do this, you
Speaker 1: can choose not to participate. So I want to encourage
Speaker 1: you to just think about what you've heard me say,
Speaker 1: what we share today, think about this conversation, and remember
Speaker 1: you're dealing with his heart. So whatever you do, however
Speaker 1: you do it, tread gently, in as hard, but vote
Speaker 1: for you, take care of you. Mm hmm, Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm hearing all your objections, but that's Okay, work with it,
Speaker 1: work with it all right, give me a call in
Speaker 1: about six weeks and let me know if things have shifted. Okay,
Speaker 1: Thank you, my love, Thank you for joining me our
Speaker 1: spot today. Thank you very much. Bye bye bye. Everyone
Speaker 1: else who may be in this situation, here's my prescription
Speaker 1: for you. You must simply honor yourself and your needs.
Speaker 1: You can have compassion for the other person or the
Speaker 1: other people involved, but the question becomes, how do I
Speaker 1: honor myself, my choice, and my commitment. My daughter who
Speaker 1: passed away had one child who basically grew up in
Speaker 1: my house because my daughter lived with me until her
Speaker 1: daughter was six, and she passed away when her daughter
Speaker 1: was nine. And her daughter's father was a wonderful child
Speaker 1: of God, cleverly disguised as an abusive manipulator. And for
Speaker 1: years I allowed myself to be manipulated by him, controlled
Speaker 1: by him, because I was afraid that he would deny
Speaker 1: me access to my daughter, until the day that I
Speaker 1: made another decision and I said, I am willing, I
Speaker 1: am willing to never see my granddaughter again until the
Speaker 1: day she can come to me unencumbered by her father.
Speaker 1: And I had to work with that. I had to
Speaker 1: pray about it. I had to sit with it until
Speaker 1: I got to that point and I told her, I said,
Speaker 1: here's what I want you to know. I will never
Speaker 1: change my phone number ever. Ever. If you want me
Speaker 1: call me, I will be there. But until then I
Speaker 1: won't see you because I don't deserve to be treated
Speaker 1: poorly and your father treats me poorly. I hope this
Speaker 1: has been helpful to someone, and if you have a
Speaker 1: question about this or any other relationship issue, you can
Speaker 1: call me live at seven seven five three zero seven
Speaker 1: seven seven six eight. Now be sure to follow me
Speaker 1: on social media for all of the calling times, and
Speaker 1: until then, stay in peace and not pieces. The R
Speaker 1: Spot is a production of Shondaland Audio in partnership with
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio, visit
Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.