WEBVTT - Pats from the Past, Episode 52: Craig James 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:09.720 It's time now for another episode of Pats from the 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:12.400 Past podcast, where we traveled down memory lane with the 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.240 former Patriot great and who better to join us today 0:00:15.240 --> 0:00:20.639 than number thirty two CJ. Craig James, the OG member 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.840 of the Pony Express, right along with Eric Dickerson, absolute, 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:25.599 which we're going to talk about because how can you 0:00:25.640 --> 0:00:28.080 talk to Craig James without talking about that before? 0:00:28.080 --> 0:00:29.080 It's Patriots career. 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.199 Anything that gets me back to high school, Matt. That's Greatreig, 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:33.239 thanks for joining us, man. 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:35.320 This is going a privilege. You know, I walk in 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:37.879 this stadium and I'm cracking up because I'm back in 0:00:37.920 --> 0:00:40.559 the eighties, right, And when I walked up to Sullivan Stadium, 0:00:40.680 --> 0:00:43.040 you know, we didn't have no film room like this, right, 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.479 weren't even the thought back then. Right. But Craig, you 0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:48.959 said you were here last June. Explain that. Why were 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.800 you here for Tom Brady Day? Well, I got to 0:00:51.800 --> 0:00:54.040 get the invitation to come in for the Brady celebration, 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.480 which was just remarkable. But I wanted to see Dante 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:00.560 Scornekia because Scar and I we were back together, SMU. 0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:02.560 He was here when I was playing for the Patriots. 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:04.280 He was you know, like a legend. He's been here 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.920 since before Billy Sullivan bought the team. Right, Scar's just 0:01:07.959 --> 0:01:10.040 one of those legendary guys and I got a chance 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:11.840 to speak with him and see him. But what a 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:14.560 great night that was. I was so proud to be 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:16.679 an alum. What a privilege to be a part of 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.600 the Patriots organization. I sent a handwritten note to mister 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:22.480 Kraft and just said, man, what an awesome night and 0:01:22.520 --> 0:01:25.039 a display of the fans. The fans here in New 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.280 England showed off last year. Absolutely. 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:30.160 Yeah, we were really happy with the way that whole 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.200 night because a lot of people in the organization had 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:33.720 a lot of things, a lot, you know, a lot 0:01:33.760 --> 0:01:35.800 to do with that. So we felt like that was 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:39.479 a really strong night for the entire organization. And I'm 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:42.360 glad that so many you know, alums came back for that. 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:44.120 There was a lot of people from a lot of 0:01:44.120 --> 0:01:46.440 different areas that took part in that, and I. 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:47.560 Think it was a huge success. 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:49.480 Well, you know, it's it's like I had a chance 0:01:49.480 --> 0:01:51.920 to see Tony Collins and Doug Flute and a bunch 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:54.000 of my teammates that I had not seen in years. 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:56.480 You know, you have to walk up nowadays, forty years 0:01:56.560 --> 0:01:59.720 later and say, hey, Craig James, see who are you. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.920 I'll tell you what, Craig, I'm not like. You don't 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.120 look a little bit different. You look like Craig James. 0:02:06.200 --> 0:02:08.080 Maybe so maybe your hair is a little lighter, but 0:02:08.560 --> 0:02:10.520 that's about it. I was joking with you before we 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.679 started that Eric could give you ten or fifteen steps. 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:16.000 I wonder if there's a half back option play that 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.120 you know, no, maybe one that you could do, if 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:19.679 you know, pitch it out there. I think it could 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:22.000 probably still get a first down off of that kind 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:22.480 of shit. 0:02:22.360 --> 0:02:25.600 Thank you very much. I'd be really good with pregame, 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:29.120 warm up and go. If somebody hit me, I would cry, 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.120 that's funny, like I said, to kick things off. 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:37.080 I think people here in New England are somewhat versed 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.960 on the legend of how it began. But the idea 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.079 that two kids who went to high school in Texas 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.360 to the best at their position could be recruited and 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.720 play for the same college and be so prolific. I mean, 0:02:52.760 --> 0:02:55.400 that story never gets old, does it. The Pony Express 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:57.680 at SMU with you and Eric Dickerson. 0:02:57.360 --> 0:03:00.000 We've been nearly fifty years friends, We love each other, 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:03.000 were like brothers and the fact that now we can 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.600 look back on it and realize what we did was 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.640 really unique. And someone asked me, the media made a 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.640 big deal about it. I had won the Vincelentbardi NFL 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.080 Offensive Player of the Year the year after Eric had 0:03:14.080 --> 0:03:16.560 been the NFL MVP, and they said, how did two 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.800 guys go to the same team in Dallas at SMU. 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:21.880 How did that happen? I said, well, it was Dallas, 0:03:21.960 --> 0:03:24.520 it was Ron Meyer, head coach at the time, a 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.919 lot of energy. But it just, you know, as Eric 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.520 and I say the Pony Express, we were better together. 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.320 So did you ever have any trepidation, you know, being 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.120 a running back, there's only one guy that's going to 0:03:35.120 --> 0:03:37.440 get to carry. I'm sure that both you and Eric 0:03:37.720 --> 0:03:40.640 felt like you were the man coming out of high school. 0:03:40.680 --> 0:03:43.160 Was there any concerns that you were going to be 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:45.440 able to share the backfield together and be as successful 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:45.880 as you were? 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.200 He had rushed for over two thousand yards as a senior. 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.240 We were in different classifications in Texas. Both of our 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:53.520 teams had one state championships, so we both thought we 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.000 were pretty good. We're both all Americans. We get to 0:03:56.080 --> 0:03:58.720 smu ron Meyer made it work, you know. He convinced 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:00.520 us that you guys are going to be fresher for 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.600 your twenty carries each per game. I think he averaged twenty, 0:04:04.640 --> 0:04:08.840 averaged nineteen, and so now that we look back on it, 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.160 it really helped. Eric says it tremendously that it helped 0:04:12.240 --> 0:04:14.400 him prolong his career. He wouldn't beat up when he 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:17.760 got there, so he was able to play longer, and so, yeah, 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:21.040 we could have been selfish, but we also recognized that 0:04:21.080 --> 0:04:24.320 in the third and fourth quarter defenses were worn out, 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:25.960 and Eric and I had to say to each other 0:04:25.960 --> 0:04:28.640 on the sideline, Hey, they're dragging, they're tired. We got 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:30.960 him and you just couldn't keep up with both of us. 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:32.400 It's kind of raird, though, isn't it. 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:34.360 I mean, like to your part, like there's not too 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:37.520 many people who are the guy who are going and 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:39.480 some going to be the guy and I that can 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:41.480 subjugate their ego and say, I think it might be 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.560 better for the team, for our careers and everything physically 0:04:44.600 --> 0:04:45.880 like that to split this. 0:04:46.120 --> 0:04:48.599 We were friends. Had we not been friends, it would 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.080 have never worked. There, you go, it's truly. I mean 0:04:51.160 --> 0:04:53.320 we have never had one cross word with each other, 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:56.520 no bad thought even to this day. And so other 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.400 than when he beats me really bad. And golf, the 0:04:59.440 --> 0:04:59.960 great golf. 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:02.719 So the thing that I like about this is is 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:05.359 it sort of starts and the reason why the Pony 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:08.280 Express is obviously a really interesting story for a lot 0:05:08.279 --> 0:05:10.279 of reasons and a lot of people, but for the 0:05:10.320 --> 0:05:13.960 Patriots specifically, Ron Meyer is there and he ends up 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:17.039 coming to New England, and we talked about Dante a 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:19.719 little bit like it's like kind of like that first 0:05:19.920 --> 0:05:24.000 chapter of the story for the Patriots, like Ron Meyer, 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.160 what did he mean to you? You know, at SMU 0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:28.760 and then when he ends up coming here and you 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:30.400 eventually come as well. 0:05:30.480 --> 0:05:33.000 Ron Meyer was not an X and xCE and O guy. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:35.760 I mean, he knew he knew football, but he was 0:05:35.800 --> 0:05:39.279 a talent guy, and he knew he knew great assistant coaches, 0:05:39.440 --> 0:05:41.960 and he had a staff that was phenomenal. Steve said, well, 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:44.640 Dante's Garnetki, there was a whole all of them were 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:48.920 world class coaches, assistant coaches, and he made them make 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:51.000 sure we knew what we were doing as athletes. And 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.080 he knew an athlete, and so he knew what you 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:54.720 could or could not do, and he'd put you in 0:05:54.960 --> 0:05:58.760 position to have success. And so Ron really had a 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:01.680 you know, Unfortunately, him getting fired, you know, led to 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:05.159 Raymond Berry, which was a blessing for the organization. But 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.400 Ron got it started, you know, with the assistant coaches 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:11.360 that he brought in here, like Dante Scarnekia, who's in the. 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:14.200 Team Hall of Fame, who's had an unbelievable career. Craig 0:06:15.279 --> 0:06:17.080 could did you see some of that? Did you as 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:20.479 a kid who's played at college, did you see this 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:23.240 world class coaching staff? And then specifically what did Scar 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:25.400 help meet you for the two years that you and 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:26.840 Dante were together at SMU. 0:06:27.640 --> 0:06:30.320 I don't think as a young athlete that you appreciate 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.680 what the coach is doing until that's not happening, and 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:35.920 then especially when you get down the road and you 0:06:35.960 --> 0:06:37.640 can look back and reflect and say, well, why don't 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.360 we doing this? Nothing against the system when I came 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.080 in here as a rookie, but we had a really 0:06:43.080 --> 0:06:47.080 hard time, very complicated pass protection scheme. I've got Sam, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.120 I've got strong safety here. I've got that, But if 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:51.320 then I've got that when you get a football player 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:55.240 thinking you've got problems, you got sacks, and so Scar 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:57.800 cleaned that up. He just said, look, let's let's simplify 0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:00.320 this thing. Let's make sure we know who we're gonna lock. 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:03.760 If you can't do that, then you can't be successful. 0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:06.440 So as I look back on it now, the assistant 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:09.160 coaches that Ron Meyer had and that Raymond Berry had, 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:12.320 that Belichick had, every one of them had a job 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:14.640 and a role and a responsibility. They were really good 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:16.800 at it. You got to have Jimmy's, you got to 0:07:16.800 --> 0:07:18.400 have the Joe's, but you got to have the coaches. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:22.680 So when you came out of SMU and decide to, 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.040 you know, to get into the draft, it was USFL first. 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:28.440 I think it was the Washington Federals. 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:28.720 Yep. 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.360 What was behind that decision. 0:07:30.960 --> 0:07:34.320 To go that had zero I had been told by 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.080 my agent that this USFL was going to have a draft. 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.040 A few days after we played in the Cotton Bowl, 0:07:39.440 --> 0:07:41.400 I'd gone home to Houston. I get a phone call 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:44.120 from my agent. He says, hey, they select you the 0:07:44.160 --> 0:07:47.960 fourth player taken in the USFL draft. Wow, okay, he said, 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.120 we have to go to Washington out of respect. Let's 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:53.200 let's go up out of respect. Within moments of being 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:56.320 around this ownership group in Washington, I realized they were 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:59.520 very serious about what they were doing, and it was 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.679 there was significantly more money than I would have been slided. 0:08:02.680 --> 0:08:03.920 I knew it was gonna be a first rounder in 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:07.120 the NFL, or was projected to be. But I was like, 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.120 I like the idea of pioneering. You know, it was 0:08:10.120 --> 0:08:12.040 a great spirit. There was a ton of great football 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:16.000 players obviously absolutely went to the USF Yeah, I'm glad 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:19.440 that happened because it led me to playing for New 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.960 England had I not played there where ron Then they 0:08:23.000 --> 0:08:26.440 started taking USFL players in the seventh round so that 0:08:26.480 --> 0:08:29.600 they would have the rights for us if that league boobed. 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.160 And to thank God that I was able to get 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:35.720 away from there and to play for the New England Patriots. 0:08:35.760 --> 0:08:36.880 So it was a blessing. 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.319 Because the Federals, like most of the teams in the 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:41.480 USFL and eventually the entire league, they ran out of 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:48.720 dough Right, you get hurt in Washington, and Meyer amongst 0:08:48.800 --> 0:08:51.280 other people again in the National Football League, had the 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:54.560 foresight to go So wonder if some of these USFL guys, 0:08:55.000 --> 0:08:57.160 how long is this going to last? It was the 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.360 Meyer drafting you in the seventh round. Well, you're not 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:02.200 a seventh round draft pick, but that's an insurance policy 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:02.559 over here? 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:05.760 Is that kind of yeah? Maybe how that was lucated? 0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:07.800 For sure? It was good for me because I knew 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:09.760 that if it didn't work out in the USFL, well, 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:11.720 I was going to go to New England. And for Ron, 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:13.880 he had a guy that he knew about and that 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:16.200 what I could do with my talents. And so they 0:09:16.240 --> 0:09:18.640 started taking the Jim kellyes and herschel Walker's and all 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:22.079 the great players that were in the USFL started going 0:09:22.080 --> 0:09:24.280 in the seventh round and they had our rights. 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.080 What was it like playing in the USFL? I mean 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.280 when it originally started. You know, people look at all 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:32.480 the spring leagues now that are sort of struggling to 0:09:32.600 --> 0:09:35.079 but the USFL was in a much higher level than 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:36.080 the spring leagues. 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:37.440 Now, what was it like playing in it? 0:09:37.559 --> 0:09:39.720 Oh man? We had a lot of really good players, 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.360 not on the Washington the worst team I ever played on. 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:45.800 Half of my teammates and just got out of jail. 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.280 The other half are on their way to prison. But 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:51.960 it was a league full of talent, But there was 0:09:51.960 --> 0:09:55.640 a discrepancy in spending amongst the organizations right so that 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.760 there was not enough quality for that to happen. And 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.480 then they wanted to go and jump beyond and try 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:04.120 to challenge the NFL, et cetera. And it fell apart. 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:07.000 But there were a lot of note were they great 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:08.960 football players that came through the USFL. 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.439 So you're drafted by the Patriots in the seventh round, 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:17.600 you get hurt your contractor is it that they is 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:21.920 it that the Federals disband? How does how do you 0:10:21.960 --> 0:10:25.120 go from Washington knowing that the Patriots have your rights 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:26.600 at that point in time in eighty four. 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:31.160 Craig So it was a very legal move, legalistic move there. 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.680 They had my rights, but they but the USFL was 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:36.679 just waiting for someone to try to pluck away one 0:10:36.679 --> 0:10:39.199 of their players. So we had to have every USFL 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:42.360 owners sign off on a waiver that said, hey, we're 0:10:42.400 --> 0:10:44.440 not going to sue you New England if you work 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.400 a deal out with Craig to leave the Federals. I 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.240 had to travel under an assumed name. I mean, you know, 0:10:50.280 --> 0:10:53.839 we were meeting in places that were secretive. It was 0:10:53.880 --> 0:10:57.040 a big deal. Uh, I think Roger Goodell may have 0:10:57.080 --> 0:10:59.600 been on the on the legal team. Paul Tagliabu was 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.480 like all year for the NFL before the commissioner role, 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.040 and so there was a lot of behind the scenes 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.480 things that happened legally to allow that to happen. But 0:11:09.559 --> 0:11:11.439 it got Washington off the hook. They ended up going 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:14.720 down to Orlando, I believe, and but it kept them going, 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.199 got relieved them of my financial debt. And the Patriots 0:11:18.200 --> 0:11:18.719 assume that. 0:11:18.840 --> 0:11:20.719 Was that unsettling as a kid, because you just want 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:22.840 to play football. You're coming off of an injury, like 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:24.959 I want to get back, I want to do things, 0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.160 but there's all this maneuvering that has to happen in 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:27.640 order for you. 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.360 To get there. Yeah, I remember, I asked, Remember a 0:11:30.400 --> 0:11:33.200 guy named Koy Bacon played for the Races. Yea. So 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:35.480 here I was twenty one years old and Washington in 0:11:35.520 --> 0:11:37.920 a locker room with a guy that he looked like 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.880 he was fifty and I knew he'd played twenty years 0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:43.600 of the NFL football. And I said, mister Bacon, I said, 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:45.679 is this really like pro football? And he goes, you're 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.480 getting paid, ain't you, kid? I go, well, there are 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.480 rumors that that has been happening in the previous four 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:51.600 years too at SMU. 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:55.000 Right, he cracked up, right, Well, I think that that's 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:56.880 always Like we were joking about this the other day. 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:58.800 You know, you had to take a page to take 0:11:58.800 --> 0:12:01.600 a pay cut to go to either the washing NFL ATA. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:05.960 We had to report it, right, So we were the 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:07.440 UNI L before the ni L. 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:10.640 Now everything everything you guys did, this is it's all 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:11.480 about boy Now. 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:13.560 I mean, we could go a whole show just in 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.000 college football and the and the whole n IL world. 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.200 But but good for the players are finally getting taken 0:12:18.240 --> 0:12:20.880 care of and compensated. It's it's a it's a scramble 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.120 out there right now. And they've got a corral a 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:23.559 little bit. 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:25.360 Did you get a car that was as nice as error? 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:25.520 No? 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:27.880 But but I'm not going to say I was riding 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:28.559 a horse either. 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:33.560 So the difference is obviously you had the connection with 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:36.480 Ron Meyer, but you know he was only hear what 0:12:36.600 --> 0:12:37.640 half that season, right? 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:39.960 So what was it like? What were the differences between 0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:41.040 he and Ray Berry? 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:46.480 Oddly enough, Ron being my coach here was a negative 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:49.080 to me. Really, it really hurt me. I came in 0:12:49.160 --> 0:12:51.640 and competed in training camp, and I thought that I 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:54.120 had beat out Tony Collins, who was an All Pro 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:57.680 and a great runner h and a locker room favorite. 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:00.480 But I thought I had won that job in that position, 0:13:00.840 --> 0:13:03.320 and it just ate me up that I wasn't getting 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.720 the carries that I wanted. And I understood Royn's position. Hey, 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.160 if I put my college kid in there over my 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.319 locker room favorite and leader and a really good player 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:14.560 in Tony Collins, you know I'm going to lose my 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:18.560 locker room. So I understood that Ron got fired. We're 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.280 on the flight to Denver Raymondberry's first game and he 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:23.199 walks to me on the plane. He says, hey, you're 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.040 starting tomorrow. I started run for one hundred and twenty 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:28.560 yards and eight hundred yards in the second half, averaged 0:13:28.559 --> 0:13:30.200 four to nine a carry. I have no doubt in 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.440 my mind if I'd have been a starter. This is 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:35.319 nothing against Tony Collins. Tony Collins was a great football player, 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:38.000 great running back. I'd ran for sixteen to eighteen hundred 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.439 yards that rookie year because we had it going on 0:13:40.760 --> 0:13:43.080 as an offensive line that particular season. 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:46.839 Did you get a sense in eighty four as you're 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:48.680 becoming a little bit more of a central figure in 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.760 the offense. Hey, we got something here, you know, were 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.000 they're building blocks and a foundation that you believe were 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.320 laid towards that second half of the eighty four season 0:13:58.559 --> 0:14:01.440 that would help you to find that eighty five team. 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.480 I think it was really in the coaches hands to 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:06.160 figure out exactly what are we going to be. They 0:14:06.200 --> 0:14:08.720 had seen that we were a powerful team that we 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:10.360 believe we could run the ball and if it was 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:11.840 third and one, we were going to do it. We 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.360 didn't need the toush push. We ran the football right. 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:16.319 Steve Brogan or Tony Easton would ask us, how can 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:18.680 we get this on third and two? Yes, we can. 0:14:19.080 --> 0:14:20.840 So I think we had to make a decision in 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:24.840 eighty five. We had all these weapons out there, receivers 0:14:24.800 --> 0:14:27.320 irving for our Stanley Morgan, all these great players, all 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.920 these runners, Tony Collins, Craig James, mostly the TUPA. We 0:14:29.920 --> 0:14:33.000 got all these players, Dawson and Tighten. What are we 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.400 going to be? And when we decided that we were 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:38.840 going to be a physical, running football team, that's when 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:40.200 we took over and we made our way to the 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:40.760 Super Bowl. 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:43.320 So was there a time in eighty five was there 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:46.320 a game that maybe you guys said, Okay, this is different. 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.040 We're a little bit better, we can do something. You know, 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:52.200 you win eleven games in eighty five, but was there 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:54.920 a moment in that season where you said, okay, this 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:56.920 is a playoff team and we're as good as all 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:57.680 these other teams. 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.640 Now. I think just as you go along and you 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.560 start playing and having success, and especially on the road, 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.840 I think the inner confidence that we had that we 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.920 were physical and good. We knew we had a great defense, 0:15:09.280 --> 0:15:11.720 like a really good defense. We had really good special teams. 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:14.280 We had guys playing roles that were turning the ball 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.520 over for us. I think the more it just was 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:20.400 a snowball, it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And so, yeah, 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.520 we got beat bad by Chicago in Chicago earlier in 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:26.960 that season. Really, you know, it wasn't too bad. You 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:30.000 had a play I had yet, And so Richard Dent 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:33.040 I have become friends with and been around more than 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.440 when we played, and he always give me a hard time. 0:15:35.480 --> 0:15:37.200 I said, yeah, but Richard, it seems like I still 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.560 remember that. I think I owned the Soldier Field's longest 0:15:40.600 --> 0:15:43.640 past reception touchdown in the history ninety yards. 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:45.840 That was the longest Patriots touchdown for a long time, 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:47.600 absolutely ninety yard touchdown. 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.240 Craig, you mentioned physicality, and you had also talked about 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:52.880 you know that you were here for the Brady event. 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:56.280 And I don't know why I find this interesting. There's 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.200 no question who the greatest player in franchise history is 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.720 for the Patriots, and that Tom Brady. But I think 0:16:01.760 --> 0:16:04.840 there's an interesting debate as to who's number two, and 0:16:04.880 --> 0:16:08.280 then therefore because who's number three? And they both played 0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:12.200 with you in my opinion on that team, Let's talk 0:16:12.240 --> 0:16:17.080 about first the guy who helped you offensively, John Hannah. 0:16:17.200 --> 0:16:18.480 Is there a better guard in the history of the 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:20.760 National Football League than hockey. 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:22.760 When you start talking about it, arguably, he has got 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.160 to be in the conversation. A big, big man of beast, 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:29.440 tenacious and did it week in and week out. We're 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:31.480 playing at Denver the game that I started, that first 0:16:31.520 --> 0:16:34.200 game that I started, John had been in the hospital 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:36.720 during the week and Pete Brock said that John never 0:16:36.760 --> 0:16:39.840 missed practices. It just never happened, and so we couldn't 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.360 believe he wasn't there. He met us on the tarmac 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.400 at the airport, walks out of like an ambulatory van 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:49.000 with an ivy bottle hooked up to him, and he 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:50.920 walks up the deal and gets on the plane, leaves 0:16:50.920 --> 0:16:53.960 his ivy stuck in him right there, flies to Denver, 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:56.120 and I ran behind him for most of those one 0:16:56.160 --> 0:16:57.320 hundred and twenty yards that day. 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:00.520 And that doesn't surprise you about him, does it. That's 0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:01.360 the kind of guy he is. 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:05.280 Oh yeah, yeah. He He made everybody around him better 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:08.560 because he demanded it if you didn't do your job. 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:11.800 Brian Holloway was a great player because John Hannah made 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.560 sure Brian played. Brian did not want to hear from 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:18.359 John Hannah. So who's the other one in contention? Paul Tip? 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:22.720 So Tippett. I'm so glad Tip. He really liked me, 0:17:23.040 --> 0:17:25.080 especially in two days that way when we did the 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.840 one on one pass waking drill running back in a linebacker, 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.800 the most idiotic drill ever a lot. There's no threat 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:35.040 of a run or right, it's a bad drill. All 0:17:35.240 --> 0:17:38.040 good for the linebacker. They don't have to worry about anything. 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:40.320 They just just blow you up. Tip would take it 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.520 easy on and he would beat me. But it was 0:17:42.520 --> 0:17:45.280 just see so Andre Tippett was ever bit as good 0:17:45.280 --> 0:17:47.840 as Lawrence Taylor. Lawrence Taylor lived in New York and 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:49.760 at that time with all that big New York media, 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:54.280