1 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: It's time now for another episode of Pats from the 2 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: Past podcast, where we traveled down memory lane with the 3 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 1: former Patriot great and who better to join us today 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:20,639 Speaker 1: than number thirty two CJ. Craig James, the OG member 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 1: of the Pony Express, right along with Eric Dickerson, absolute, 6 00:00:23,840 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: which we're going to talk about because how can you 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: talk to Craig James without talking about that before? 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: It's Patriots career. 9 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 3: Anything that gets me back to high school, Matt. That's Greatreig, 10 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 3: thanks for joining us, man. 11 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 2: This is going a privilege. You know, I walk in 12 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 2: this stadium and I'm cracking up because I'm back in 13 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 2: the eighties, right, And when I walked up to Sullivan Stadium, 14 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 2: you know, we didn't have no film room like this, right, 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: weren't even the thought back then. Right. But Craig, you 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,959 Speaker 2: said you were here last June. Explain that. Why were 17 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 2: you here for Tom Brady Day? Well, I got to 18 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 2: get the invitation to come in for the Brady celebration, 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: which was just remarkable. But I wanted to see Dante 20 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: Scornekia because Scar and I we were back together, SMU. 21 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 2: He was here when I was playing for the Patriots. 22 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 2: He was you know, like a legend. He's been here 23 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: since before Billy Sullivan bought the team. Right, Scar's just 24 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 2: one of those legendary guys and I got a chance 25 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 2: to speak with him and see him. But what a 26 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 2: great night that was. I was so proud to be 27 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,679 Speaker 2: an alum. What a privilege to be a part of 28 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 2: the Patriots organization. I sent a handwritten note to mister 29 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,480 Speaker 2: Kraft and just said, man, what an awesome night and 30 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 2: a display of the fans. The fans here in New 31 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: England showed off last year. Absolutely. 32 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, we were really happy with the way that whole 33 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 3: night because a lot of people in the organization had 34 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 3: a lot of things, a lot, you know, a lot 35 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: to do with that. So we felt like that was 36 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:39,479 Speaker 3: a really strong night for the entire organization. And I'm 37 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 3: glad that so many you know, alums came back for that. 38 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 3: There was a lot of people from a lot of 39 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: different areas that took part in that, and I. 40 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 4: Think it was a huge success. 41 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 2: Well, you know, it's it's like I had a chance 42 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: to see Tony Collins and Doug Flute and a bunch 43 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: of my teammates that I had not seen in years. 44 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: You know, you have to walk up nowadays, forty years 45 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: later and say, hey, Craig James, see who are you. 46 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, Craig, I'm not like. You don't 47 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: look a little bit different. You look like Craig James. 48 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,080 Speaker 1: Maybe so maybe your hair is a little lighter, but 49 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: that's about it. I was joking with you before we 50 00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:13,679 Speaker 1: started that Eric could give you ten or fifteen steps. 51 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: I wonder if there's a half back option play that 52 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, no, maybe one that you could do, if 53 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:19,679 Speaker 1: you know, pitch it out there. I think it could 54 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: probably still get a first down off of that kind 55 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: of shit. 56 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: Thank you very much. I'd be really good with pregame, 57 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:29,120 Speaker 2: warm up and go. If somebody hit me, I would cry, 58 00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: that's funny, like I said, to kick things off. 59 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:37,080 Speaker 1: I think people here in New England are somewhat versed 60 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: on the legend of how it began. But the idea 61 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: that two kids who went to high school in Texas 62 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 1: to the best at their position could be recruited and 63 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 1: play for the same college and be so prolific. I mean, 64 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: that story never gets old, does it. The Pony Express 65 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: at SMU with you and Eric Dickerson. 66 00:02:57,360 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: We've been nearly fifty years friends, We love each other, 67 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 2: were like brothers and the fact that now we can 68 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:05,600 Speaker 2: look back on it and realize what we did was 69 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: really unique. And someone asked me, the media made a 70 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,640 Speaker 2: big deal about it. I had won the Vincelentbardi NFL 71 00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: Offensive Player of the Year the year after Eric had 72 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: been the NFL MVP, and they said, how did two 73 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 2: guys go to the same team in Dallas at SMU. 74 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 2: How did that happen? I said, well, it was Dallas, 75 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: it was Ron Meyer, head coach at the time, a 76 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 2: lot of energy. But it just, you know, as Eric 77 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 2: and I say the Pony Express, we were better together. 78 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 3: So did you ever have any trepidation, you know, being 79 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 3: a running back, there's only one guy that's going to 80 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 3: get to carry. I'm sure that both you and Eric 81 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:40,640 Speaker 3: felt like you were the man coming out of high school. 82 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: Was there any concerns that you were going to be 83 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:45,440 Speaker 3: able to share the backfield together and be as successful 84 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: as you were? 85 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 2: He had rushed for over two thousand yards as a senior. 86 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: We were in different classifications in Texas. Both of our 87 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: teams had one state championships, so we both thought we 88 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: were pretty good. We're both all Americans. We get to 89 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 2: smu ron Meyer made it work, you know. He convinced 90 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: us that you guys are going to be fresher for 91 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: your twenty carries each per game. I think he averaged twenty, 92 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: averaged nineteen, and so now that we look back on it, 93 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: it really helped. Eric says it tremendously that it helped 94 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 2: him prolong his career. He wouldn't beat up when he 95 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: got there, so he was able to play longer, and so, yeah, 96 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 2: we could have been selfish, but we also recognized that 97 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,320 Speaker 2: in the third and fourth quarter defenses were worn out, 98 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 2: and Eric and I had to say to each other 99 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: on the sideline, Hey, they're dragging, they're tired. We got 100 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 2: him and you just couldn't keep up with both of us. 101 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: It's kind of raird, though, isn't it. 102 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: I mean, like to your part, like there's not too 103 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: many people who are the guy who are going and 104 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: some going to be the guy and I that can 105 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,480 Speaker 1: subjugate their ego and say, I think it might be 106 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 1: better for the team, for our careers and everything physically 107 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: like that to split this. 108 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 2: We were friends. Had we not been friends, it would 109 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: have never worked. There, you go, it's truly. I mean 110 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 2: we have never had one cross word with each other, 111 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 2: no bad thought even to this day. And so other 112 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: than when he beats me really bad. And golf, the 113 00:04:59,440 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: great golf. 114 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 3: So the thing that I like about this is is 115 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 3: it sort of starts and the reason why the Pony 116 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,280 Speaker 3: Express is obviously a really interesting story for a lot 117 00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:10,279 Speaker 3: of reasons and a lot of people, but for the 118 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,960 Speaker 3: Patriots specifically, Ron Meyer is there and he ends up 119 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 3: coming to New England, and we talked about Dante a 120 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 3: little bit like it's like kind of like that first 121 00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 3: chapter of the story for the Patriots, like Ron Meyer, 122 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:26,160 Speaker 3: what did he mean to you? You know, at SMU 123 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 3: and then when he ends up coming here and you 124 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 3: eventually come as well. 125 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 2: Ron Meyer was not an X and xCE and O guy. 126 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: I mean, he knew he knew football, but he was 127 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 2: a talent guy, and he knew he knew great assistant coaches, 128 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,960 Speaker 2: and he had a staff that was phenomenal. Steve said, well, 129 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: Dante's Garnetki, there was a whole all of them were 130 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 2: world class coaches, assistant coaches, and he made them make 131 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: sure we knew what we were doing as athletes. And 132 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: he knew an athlete, and so he knew what you 133 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 2: could or could not do, and he'd put you in 134 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: position to have success. And so Ron really had a 135 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: you know, Unfortunately, him getting fired, you know, led to 136 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,159 Speaker 2: Raymond Berry, which was a blessing for the organization. But 137 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: Ron got it started, you know, with the assistant coaches 138 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: that he brought in here, like Dante Scarnekia, who's in the. 139 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: Team Hall of Fame, who's had an unbelievable career. Craig 140 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: could did you see some of that? Did you as 141 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 1: a kid who's played at college, did you see this 142 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: world class coaching staff? And then specifically what did Scar 143 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 1: help meet you for the two years that you and 144 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 1: Dante were together at SMU. 145 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: I don't think as a young athlete that you appreciate 146 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 2: what the coach is doing until that's not happening, and 147 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 2: then especially when you get down the road and you 148 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 2: can look back and reflect and say, well, why don't 149 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: we doing this? Nothing against the system when I came 150 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: in here as a rookie, but we had a really 151 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: hard time, very complicated pass protection scheme. I've got Sam, 152 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,120 Speaker 2: I've got strong safety here. I've got that, But if 153 00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: then I've got that when you get a football player 154 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: thinking you've got problems, you got sacks, and so Scar 155 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 2: cleaned that up. He just said, look, let's let's simplify 156 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: this thing. Let's make sure we know who we're gonna lock. 157 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: If you can't do that, then you can't be successful. 158 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: So as I look back on it now, the assistant 159 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 2: coaches that Ron Meyer had and that Raymond Berry had, 160 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: that Belichick had, every one of them had a job 161 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: and a role and a responsibility. They were really good 162 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 2: at it. You got to have Jimmy's, you got to 163 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: have the Joe's, but you got to have the coaches. 164 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 3: So when you came out of SMU and decide to, 165 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 3: you know, to get into the draft, it was USFL first. 166 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 4: I think it was the Washington Federals. 167 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 2: Yep. 168 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 4: What was behind that decision. 169 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: To go that had zero I had been told by 170 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: my agent that this USFL was going to have a draft. 171 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: A few days after we played in the Cotton Bowl, 172 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 2: I'd gone home to Houston. I get a phone call 173 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 2: from my agent. He says, hey, they select you the 174 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: fourth player taken in the USFL draft. Wow, okay, he said, 175 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 2: we have to go to Washington out of respect. Let's 176 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: let's go up out of respect. Within moments of being 177 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 2: around this ownership group in Washington, I realized they were 178 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,520 Speaker 2: very serious about what they were doing, and it was 179 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:02,679 Speaker 2: there was significantly more money than I would have been slided. 180 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 2: I knew it was gonna be a first rounder in 181 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: the NFL, or was projected to be. But I was like, 182 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: I like the idea of pioneering. You know, it was 183 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 2: a great spirit. There was a ton of great football 184 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: players obviously absolutely went to the USF Yeah, I'm glad 185 00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,440 Speaker 2: that happened because it led me to playing for New 186 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 2: England had I not played there where ron Then they 187 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 2: started taking USFL players in the seventh round so that 188 00:08:26,480 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 2: they would have the rights for us if that league boobed. 189 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,160 Speaker 2: And to thank God that I was able to get 190 00:08:33,160 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 2: away from there and to play for the New England Patriots. 191 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: So it was a blessing. 192 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,319 Speaker 1: Because the Federals, like most of the teams in the 193 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: USFL and eventually the entire league, they ran out of 194 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 1: dough Right, you get hurt in Washington, and Meyer amongst 195 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: other people again in the National Football League, had the 196 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 1: foresight to go So wonder if some of these USFL guys, 197 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: how long is this going to last? It was the 198 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,360 Speaker 1: Meyer drafting you in the seventh round. Well, you're not 199 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: a seventh round draft pick, but that's an insurance policy 200 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:02,559 Speaker 1: over here? 201 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 2: Is that kind of yeah? Maybe how that was lucated? 202 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:07,800 Speaker 2: For sure? It was good for me because I knew 203 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: that if it didn't work out in the USFL, well, 204 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: I was going to go to New England. And for Ron, 205 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: he had a guy that he knew about and that 206 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: what I could do with my talents. And so they 207 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 2: started taking the Jim kellyes and herschel Walker's and all 208 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 2: the great players that were in the USFL started going 209 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: in the seventh round and they had our rights. 210 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 3: What was it like playing in the USFL? I mean 211 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 3: when it originally started. You know, people look at all 212 00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 3: the spring leagues now that are sort of struggling to 213 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 3: but the USFL was in a much higher level than 214 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 3: the spring leagues. 215 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:37,440 Speaker 4: Now, what was it like playing in it? 216 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: Oh man? We had a lot of really good players, 217 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 2: not on the Washington the worst team I ever played on. 218 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 2: Half of my teammates and just got out of jail. 219 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: The other half are on their way to prison. But 220 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 2: it was a league full of talent, But there was 221 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: a discrepancy in spending amongst the organizations right so that 222 00:09:55,720 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 2: there was not enough quality for that to happen. And 223 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: then they wanted to go and jump beyond and try 224 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: to challenge the NFL, et cetera. And it fell apart. 225 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 2: But there were a lot of note were they great 226 00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 2: football players that came through the USFL. 227 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 1: So you're drafted by the Patriots in the seventh round, 228 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: you get hurt your contractor is it that they is 229 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: it that the Federals disband? How does how do you 230 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: go from Washington knowing that the Patriots have your rights 231 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 1: at that point in time in eighty four. 232 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 2: Craig So it was a very legal move, legalistic move there. 233 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,680 Speaker 2: They had my rights, but they but the USFL was 234 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 2: just waiting for someone to try to pluck away one 235 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 2: of their players. So we had to have every USFL 236 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 2: owners sign off on a waiver that said, hey, we're 237 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: not going to sue you New England if you work 238 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 2: a deal out with Craig to leave the Federals. I 239 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 2: had to travel under an assumed name. I mean, you know, 240 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:53,839 Speaker 2: we were meeting in places that were secretive. It was 241 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 2: a big deal. Uh, I think Roger Goodell may have 242 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 2: been on the on the legal team. Paul Tagliabu was 243 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: like all year for the NFL before the commissioner role, 244 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 2: and so there was a lot of behind the scenes 245 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 2: things that happened legally to allow that to happen. But 246 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 2: it got Washington off the hook. They ended up going 247 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 2: down to Orlando, I believe, and but it kept them going, 248 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,199 Speaker 2: got relieved them of my financial debt. And the Patriots 249 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:18,719 Speaker 2: assume that. 250 00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:20,719 Speaker 1: Was that unsettling as a kid, because you just want 251 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: to play football. You're coming off of an injury, like 252 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 1: I want to get back, I want to do things, 253 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: but there's all this maneuvering that has to happen in 254 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:27,640 Speaker 1: order for you. 255 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: To get there. Yeah, I remember, I asked, Remember a 256 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 2: guy named Koy Bacon played for the Races. Yea. So 257 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,480 Speaker 2: here I was twenty one years old and Washington in 258 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 2: a locker room with a guy that he looked like 259 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: he was fifty and I knew he'd played twenty years 260 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 2: of the NFL football. And I said, mister Bacon, I said, 261 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 2: is this really like pro football? And he goes, you're 262 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 2: getting paid, ain't you, kid? I go, well, there are 263 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 2: rumors that that has been happening in the previous four 264 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 2: years too at SMU. 265 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 1: Right, he cracked up, right, Well, I think that that's 266 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 1: always Like we were joking about this the other day. 267 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: You know, you had to take a page to take 268 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: a pay cut to go to either the washing NFL ATA. 269 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 2: We had to report it, right, So we were the 270 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:07,440 Speaker 2: UNI L before the ni L. 271 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 3: Now everything everything you guys did, this is it's all 272 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 3: about boy Now. 273 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,560 Speaker 2: I mean, we could go a whole show just in 274 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,000 Speaker 2: college football and the and the whole n IL world. 275 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 2: But but good for the players are finally getting taken 276 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:20,880 Speaker 2: care of and compensated. It's it's a it's a scramble 277 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 2: out there right now. And they've got a corral a 278 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 2: little bit. 279 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 4: Did you get a car that was as nice as error? 280 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: No? 281 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:27,880 Speaker 2: But but I'm not going to say I was riding 282 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 2: a horse either. 283 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 3: So the difference is obviously you had the connection with 284 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: Ron Meyer, but you know he was only hear what 285 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 3: half that season, right? 286 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 4: So what was it like? What were the differences between 287 00:12:39,960 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 4: he and Ray Berry? 288 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 2: Oddly enough, Ron being my coach here was a negative 289 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 2: to me. Really, it really hurt me. I came in 290 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 2: and competed in training camp, and I thought that I 291 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 2: had beat out Tony Collins, who was an All Pro 292 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,680 Speaker 2: and a great runner h and a locker room favorite. 293 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 2: But I thought I had won that job in that position, 294 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 2: and it just ate me up that I wasn't getting 295 00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,720 Speaker 2: the carries that I wanted. And I understood Royn's position. Hey, 296 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: if I put my college kid in there over my 297 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,319 Speaker 2: locker room favorite and leader and a really good player 298 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 2: in Tony Collins, you know I'm going to lose my 299 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 2: locker room. So I understood that Ron got fired. We're 300 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,280 Speaker 2: on the flight to Denver Raymondberry's first game and he 301 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 2: walks to me on the plane. He says, hey, you're 302 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,040 Speaker 2: starting tomorrow. I started run for one hundred and twenty 303 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,560 Speaker 2: yards and eight hundred yards in the second half, averaged 304 00:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,200 Speaker 2: four to nine a carry. I have no doubt in 305 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,440 Speaker 2: my mind if I'd have been a starter. This is 306 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:35,319 Speaker 2: nothing against Tony Collins. Tony Collins was a great football player, 307 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 2: great running back. I'd ran for sixteen to eighteen hundred 308 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 2: yards that rookie year because we had it going on 309 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:43,080 Speaker 2: as an offensive line that particular season. 310 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: Did you get a sense in eighty four as you're 311 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: becoming a little bit more of a central figure in 312 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: the offense. Hey, we got something here, you know, were 313 00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: they're building blocks and a foundation that you believe were 314 00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:58,320 Speaker 1: laid towards that second half of the eighty four season 315 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: that would help you to find that eighty five team. 316 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: I think it was really in the coaches hands to 317 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 2: figure out exactly what are we going to be. They 318 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,720 Speaker 2: had seen that we were a powerful team that we 319 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 2: believe we could run the ball and if it was 320 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 2: third and one, we were going to do it. We 321 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: didn't need the toush push. We ran the football right. 322 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 2: Steve Brogan or Tony Easton would ask us, how can 323 00:14:16,320 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 2: we get this on third and two? Yes, we can. 324 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 2: So I think we had to make a decision in 325 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 2: eighty five. We had all these weapons out there, receivers 326 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: irving for our Stanley Morgan, all these great players, all 327 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 2: these runners, Tony Collins, Craig James, mostly the TUPA. We 328 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: got all these players, Dawson and Tighten. What are we 329 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 2: going to be? And when we decided that we were 330 00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: going to be a physical, running football team, that's when 331 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: we took over and we made our way to the 332 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: Super Bowl. 333 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 3: So was there a time in eighty five was there 334 00:14:43,400 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 3: a game that maybe you guys said, Okay, this is different. 335 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:50,040 Speaker 3: We're a little bit better, we can do something. You know, 336 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 3: you win eleven games in eighty five, but was there 337 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 3: a moment in that season where you said, okay, this 338 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 3: is a playoff team and we're as good as all 339 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 3: these other teams. 340 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 2: Now. I think just as you go along and you 341 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: start playing and having success, and especially on the road, 342 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: I think the inner confidence that we had that we 343 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 2: were physical and good. We knew we had a great defense, 344 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:11,720 Speaker 2: like a really good defense. We had really good special teams. 345 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 2: We had guys playing roles that were turning the ball 346 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 2: over for us. I think the more it just was 347 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 2: a snowball, it just kept getting bigger and bigger. And so, yeah, 348 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 2: we got beat bad by Chicago in Chicago earlier in 349 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 2: that season. Really, you know, it wasn't too bad. You 350 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: had a play I had yet, And so Richard Dent 351 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 2: I have become friends with and been around more than 352 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 2: when we played, and he always give me a hard time. 353 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 2: I said, yeah, but Richard, it seems like I still 354 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 2: remember that. I think I owned the Soldier Field's longest 355 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,640 Speaker 2: past reception touchdown in the history ninety yards. 356 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 3: That was the longest Patriots touchdown for a long time, 357 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 3: absolutely ninety yard touchdown. 358 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: Craig, you mentioned physicality, and you had also talked about 359 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: you know that you were here for the Brady event. 360 00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: And I don't know why I find this interesting. There's 361 00:15:56,280 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: no question who the greatest player in franchise history is 362 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: for the Patriots, and that Tom Brady. But I think 363 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: there's an interesting debate as to who's number two, and 364 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: then therefore because who's number three? And they both played 365 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 1: with you in my opinion on that team, Let's talk 366 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: about first the guy who helped you offensively, John Hannah. 367 00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: Is there a better guard in the history of the 368 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: National Football League than hockey. 369 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:22,760 Speaker 2: When you start talking about it, arguably, he has got 370 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: to be in the conversation. A big, big man of beast, 371 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:29,440 Speaker 2: tenacious and did it week in and week out. We're 372 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,480 Speaker 2: playing at Denver the game that I started, that first 373 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 2: game that I started, John had been in the hospital 374 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 2: during the week and Pete Brock said that John never 375 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 2: missed practices. It just never happened, and so we couldn't 376 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: believe he wasn't there. He met us on the tarmac 377 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: at the airport, walks out of like an ambulatory van 378 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 2: with an ivy bottle hooked up to him, and he 379 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: walks up the deal and gets on the plane, leaves 380 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 2: his ivy stuck in him right there, flies to Denver, 381 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: and I ran behind him for most of those one 382 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 2: hundred and twenty yards that day. 383 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: And that doesn't surprise you about him, does it. That's 384 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: the kind of guy he is. 385 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. He He made everybody around him better 386 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 2: because he demanded it if you didn't do your job. 387 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 2: Brian Holloway was a great player because John Hannah made 388 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 2: sure Brian played. Brian did not want to hear from 389 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 2: John Hannah. So who's the other one in contention? Paul Tip? 390 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,720 Speaker 2: So Tippett. I'm so glad Tip. He really liked me, 391 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,080 Speaker 2: especially in two days that way when we did the 392 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: one on one pass waking drill running back in a linebacker, 393 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,800 Speaker 2: the most idiotic drill ever a lot. There's no threat 394 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,040 Speaker 2: of a run or right, it's a bad drill. All 395 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 2: good for the linebacker. They don't have to worry about anything. 396 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 2: They just just blow you up. Tip would take it 397 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 2: easy on and he would beat me. But it was 398 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 2: just see so Andre Tippett was ever bit as good 399 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,840 Speaker 2: as Lawrence Taylor. Lawrence Taylor lived in New York and 400 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: at that time with all that big New York media, 401 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 2: but lt was a great player, similar size. You couldn't 402 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: run away from him. You couldn't run away from Andre Tippet. 403 00:17:57,480 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: Tip was a great player. And I'm glad to say 404 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 2: hear you say he's one of those three in your 405 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,360 Speaker 2: mind about the greatest players. I think. 406 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:06,600 Speaker 1: I think it's a really interesting battle between Again, give 407 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: Brady his flowers, and he was well deserved, But after him, 408 00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:12,160 Speaker 1: is it Hannah, is it Tippin that it's probably about 409 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 1: like what flavor ice cream do you like better? A 410 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:17,119 Speaker 1: Hall of Famer defender of famers or a Hall of 411 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: Fame offensive line? 412 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,160 Speaker 3: A little biased because you know he works upstairs. Right, 413 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:23,239 Speaker 3: we're still a little just a little bit afraid of them. 414 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 3: Absolutely we should be. 415 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 2: I still but I see Lawrence Taylors somewhere. I don't 416 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 2: like to go up to him. He had a tackle 417 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: on him the first tackle. We were here playing a 418 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 2: game and he makes the first tackle on me, and 419 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 2: it was like a twelve yard game, and he gave 420 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,240 Speaker 2: me a little bit of a thigh bruise, but he 421 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: stood up and said something. I go, that's all right, 422 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,160 Speaker 2: I'll be back. And I was like, man, I hope 423 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 2: you didn't do me. Did you just piss him off? 424 00:18:43,480 --> 00:18:46,000 Speaker 1: You know, the running back position today, Craig has been 425 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: a little bit undervalued. 426 00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 2: Everybody throws the ball, Paul loves it. 427 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: It's had a little bit of a renaissance last year 428 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 1: with Barkley, Derek Henry and things like that. But I 429 00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: look back at that eighty five team and you mentioned 430 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: some of these guys. You were the leading rusher on 431 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: the eighty five team, But it's Robert Weathers, it's Tony Collins, 432 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,720 Speaker 1: it's Mosey Totupu, it's you. 433 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 2: Like. 434 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: It wasn't running back by committee. But you were a 435 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: lot of different tools in the bag. The coaching staff 436 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:16,879 Speaker 1: had a lot of different tools in the bag. They 437 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: could beat you a lot of different ways. And we 438 00:19:18,520 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 1: might have seen how that worked in the AC Championship game. 439 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 2: Would you guess against the Dolphins? Great analogy. We kind 440 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: of had our short yardage goal line package, which was Robert, 441 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 2: and mostly they'd commit TC and I'd come out. We 442 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 2: had certain packages that worked really well as a team, 443 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 2: a selfless team. You know, you had to have that 444 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:38,879 Speaker 2: kind of mentality to make that thing work. But the 445 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 2: fact that we had so many different players and each 446 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 2: one had a role, and you know, you had the 447 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 2: Belichick way that came after our way. You know, I 448 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 2: always looked at our eighty five team in this way. 449 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 2: It was an honor to be a part of a 450 00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 2: team that Billy Sullivan was still here with and founded 451 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 2: and his son was the general manager. We got smoked 452 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 2: in the Super Bowl. We got there. We showed that 453 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 2: this organization, these coaches, this front office, you can get there. 454 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,480 Speaker 2: The players will be gone, but there'll be different people here. 455 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,159 Speaker 2: You have to knock on the door. You have to 456 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:12,359 Speaker 2: open the door before you can run through the door. 457 00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 2: And that led the way for a lot of teams 458 00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 2: and the successes that they had down the road. I 459 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 2: think our team really opened the door for belief that 460 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 2: it can happen. 461 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 3: Can you take us a little bit on that road, 462 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:24,679 Speaker 3: you know, the ride of those three games, you know, 463 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 3: three games on the road, first team, you know, to 464 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 3: do that and make it to the Super Bowl. What 465 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,240 Speaker 3: was it like when that that got started? Where was 466 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,320 Speaker 3: the confidence level for you? Guys, because you entered the postseason. 467 00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:39,679 Speaker 2: Raymond Barry had a really cool saying about you know, 468 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 2: he goes, hey, all right, men, he go you know, men, 469 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,720 Speaker 2: and his fingers were crooked from his plan days. He goes, 470 00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: he goes, he goes, what's the what are we looking 471 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 2: at when we look at the at the at the 472 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 2: bullseye and you know, well, you're shooting an arrow. Well 473 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,680 Speaker 2: you're looking at the bullseye. No, no, you got to 474 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 2: look at the center of the bullseye. And he was 475 00:20:56,960 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 2: really big on focus. Focus. We have one game this week. 476 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 2: We're gonna go play the New York Jets. That's it. 477 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 2: We're gonna go play the New York Jets. And a 478 00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 2: lot of coaches preach this stuff and say these things, 479 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 2: but they but they don't live this thing. Raymond Berry 480 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,159 Speaker 2: was focused on the center of the bullseye and so 481 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,199 Speaker 2: therefore it was contagious amongst the players. And then we 482 00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,320 Speaker 2: had that confidence because we had a great defense, we 483 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 2: had a great special teams, and we had a great offense. 484 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,479 Speaker 2: We could run the football, so we had everything that 485 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: was needed for the team to do really well. 486 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 3: So when you start you talk about the special teams 487 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 3: because it just seemed like every week some of them 488 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: was mishandling a kick, Like do you start to think, hey, 489 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 3: it's destiny. 490 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:38,680 Speaker 4: We're supposed to be winning these games. 491 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 3: We're you know, because the Patriots, our whole lives, always 492 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,200 Speaker 3: found a way to get hit by the train when 493 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 3: you know, you got to the light at the end 494 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 3: of the tunnel. And that was the one time where 495 00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 3: now all the breaks are going the Patriots way. There's 496 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:54,520 Speaker 3: no mystery flag taking away a big play, but it's 497 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 3: Jim Bowman recovering fumbles and you guys forcing these Johnny Yeah, 498 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 3: I mean it started with the Jets game and just 499 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 3: continued with the Raiders and right on. 500 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,920 Speaker 4: You know, I think Miami, still in Miami, just turned 501 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 4: it over again in the as you. 502 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,800 Speaker 2: Get in the head of your opponent because you've got 503 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,560 Speaker 2: this reputation of creating turnovers. So now you're you're playing us, 504 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 2: You're sitting every thing. Am I gonna be the guy 505 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 2: that's gonna fumble this thing? Am I gonna turn it over? 506 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 2: I'm gonna miss a block that causes a fumble, strip 507 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 2: sig and so you get in their head. We had 508 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 2: a fumble drill at every practice that Raymond did, and 509 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 2: you had to pick up two balls. Every everybody on 510 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 2: the team they dropped the ball, you had to fall 511 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 2: on it. And and it made us become instinctive, you know, 512 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,440 Speaker 2: second nature. You fall on the ball, pick it up. 513 00:22:34,680 --> 00:22:37,040 Speaker 2: I'm sure nowadays said a lot of coaches do that 514 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,400 Speaker 2: with a fumble drill, But for us, it was like saying, 515 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,480 Speaker 2: it was instincts. Balls on the ground, you're on the ball, 516 00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:44,359 Speaker 2: you know, And so it paid off. 517 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:51,440 Speaker 1: I don't think today's Patriot fan can understand the importance 518 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: of going into the Orange Bowl in the AFC Championship game. 519 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: You know, we talked today about Mile High Stadium and 520 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: you know, Joe Robbie, I call it still or whatever 521 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: they call it this week, hard Rock Stadium in Miami. 522 00:23:03,840 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: It's never been a great place for the Patriots to play. 523 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,479 Speaker 1: You had lost in a heartbreaker in the regular season 524 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: down there, we had that game won, and it's just like, well, 525 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: they're not going to be able to go down in Miami. 526 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 1: This is Marino, it's you know, duper, it's Clayton and 527 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:22,120 Speaker 1: everything like that did how big was that game? And 528 00:23:22,320 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: was your confidence in there? You know what, we've been 529 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,239 Speaker 1: able to play with these guys. We should have won 530 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: the game in the regular season. We're gonna beat them 531 00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: this time. 532 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,879 Speaker 2: Wasn't it like eighteen years or something. Yeah, it was 533 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: like a long time. It's like you're going to go 534 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: lose in the Orange Squiz the Fish the fish Man. 535 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 2: There was a pep rally, the magnitude of the importance 536 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 2: to the fans and to us. Yeah. Some guy came 537 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:43,280 Speaker 2: up to me and he had had tattooed on his deal, 538 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: you know, Craig James. He goes squish the fish. I 539 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 2: was like, oh, dude, right right. But we get down there. 540 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: Before we got down there, we knew we were going 541 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 2: to beat them, and they knew we were going to 542 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,640 Speaker 2: beat them. Dan Marino said, he he said, I can't 543 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: believe you guys beat us, and said, we had no 544 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 2: doubt in our mind we were going to physically beat you. 545 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 2: Exactly what happened. We're not going to take that game 546 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 2: from us. And that was the kind of attitude. I 547 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: remember the exuberance, the excitement that we had after the game, 548 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 2: dancing on the sideline, and I remember saying, man, we 549 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 2: got one more game. 550 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 1: Man, Let's go do this one more time to get 551 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,359 Speaker 1: to that place, though, Craig, you were doing it. You 552 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,800 Speaker 1: talked about all the weapons that you had, the physicality 553 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: of the offensive line, the great defense. I don't recall 554 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: it being controversial, but Grogan played and Easton played, and 555 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: I'm sure that there was an Easton camp, and I'm 556 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: sure there was a Grogan camp. But somehow, some way, 557 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 1: Raymonds would have helped massage that to get you to 558 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: the Super Bowl that year. 559 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:43,880 Speaker 2: I think hats off to those two guys for them 560 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 2: not causing a stink about it, you know. I mean, 561 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,240 Speaker 2: Steve and Tony were both outstanding quarterbacks in their own way. 562 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 2: Tony Easton was a really talented quarterback, you know, and 563 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:58,479 Speaker 2: just he was a great player. Steve Grogan was Steve Grogan, 564 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 2: you know what. Steve again, one year he would walk 565 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:03,320 Speaker 2: in the huddle and they let him call the plays 566 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,359 Speaker 2: as well. He should have probably had that kind of 567 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,399 Speaker 2: hell instincts. Yeah, and he knew us. He could feel 568 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 2: it in the game. So we had two really good quarterbacks. 569 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 2: But I think any championship team I was blessed to 570 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 2: bet on a state championship in Texas in high school, 571 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:19,200 Speaker 2: arguably the best team I ever played on the really 572 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: good team, college championship teams, and then the NFL playing 573 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 2: on an AFC championship team. Every one of those teams 574 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:32,720 Speaker 2: had a common denominator selfless team. Teams win, individuals don't win. 575 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,399 Speaker 1: I think I still have the T shirt, probably buried 576 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 1: someplace in a closet to bury the Bears T shirts. 577 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:38,919 Speaker 2: You remember bury the Bears. 578 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,480 Speaker 1: So you talked about your confidence going into the AFT 579 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: Championship game against Miami. This Bears team in hindsight my words, No, 580 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: I'm not asking you know, I am going to ask you. 581 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: That's the best NFL team I think I've seen in 582 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: my lifetime. Where was your confidence level? You lost to 583 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: him close in the regular season, but what was that 584 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,919 Speaker 1: two week peer we'd like knowing that you're going up 585 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:03,560 Speaker 1: against the vaunted Chicago Bears. 586 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 2: Going back and looking looking at at the moments of 587 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 2: that leading up to that game, I wish I had 588 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,879 Speaker 2: known how long the pregame was, of how all of 589 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,840 Speaker 2: the stuff. I mean we knew coming out of the 590 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 2: AFC Championship game the next week here in Foxville, the 591 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 2: number of media attention was phenomenal. I mean it was 592 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:26,880 Speaker 2: cameras everywhere. So we knew that was there. We had 593 00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:28,960 Speaker 2: great confidence that we were going to go down there 594 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 2: and run the football. And when Lynn Dawson got hurt 595 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 2: and took away one of our tight ends first down, 596 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: when we couldn't go too tight and run the football, 597 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,439 Speaker 2: they would have stopped us two out of four times. 598 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 2: But those other two times we'd have got them and 599 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 2: we've been we'd have been a much better game. Different game. Uh, 600 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,800 Speaker 2: don't take anything from Chicago Bears. They were a great team, 601 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 2: had the unique defense, the four to six, They had 602 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 2: the right personalities in place for all of that. But 603 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,960 Speaker 2: I remember during the week We're in New Orleans and 604 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 2: I kept hearing Jim McMahon and the Bears are out 605 00:26:57,800 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 2: on Bourbon Street partying it up. We had a curfew. 606 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,480 Speaker 2: We were going to bed at eleven or twelve o'clock. 607 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 2: So after the fact, I was like, next time I 608 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 2: ever played the Super. 609 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 3: Bowl, lay it up, hammered so that team, like Matt's 610 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 3: right that that Bears team was special. What was you mentioned? 611 00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 3: The forty six defense? You know what made that such 612 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 3: a challenge to go against. 613 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 2: I remember coming off the field after one or two 614 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 2: series and Bobby Greer, my running back coach at the 615 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 2: time he said, hey, what are you seeing? I said, 616 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 2: I think they got one more guy than they got 617 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 2: fifteen guys out over there, right, But they were close. 618 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:34,920 Speaker 2: They were hunkered down, and if you wanted to throw 619 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:37,919 Speaker 2: the football, which it wanted you to do, you couldn't 620 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 2: block them. They were gonna have somebody get to your quarterback. 621 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,520 Speaker 2: You didn't have the normal two point nine seconds. You 622 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 2: were gonna get sacked. You had to get rid of 623 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,720 Speaker 2: it and so so then therefore that's why you had 624 00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 2: to have the two tight run it pound them man 625 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: on man, let's go. But then they have an extra 626 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:53,680 Speaker 2: man in the box. Well that was going to be 627 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 2: up to the running backs. Then we had to take 628 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 2: care of that extra guy. Uh. Just never got to 629 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 2: that point. But they were They were unique. 630 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 3: So not that we need to go into all the 631 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 3: play by play of obviously a disappointing finish, but that 632 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: first series you mentioned Lynn's injury. On the first down, 633 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 3: you get the turnover. I think Peyton fumbled yep, right off, 634 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:14,479 Speaker 3: right out right out of the shoot. So, like you know, 635 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 3: seventeen year old Paul Perillo is like, it's gonna happen. 636 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,680 Speaker 3: It's happened that the turnovers gonna happen again. I completely 637 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 3: convinced myself. And you go pass past pass, you know, 638 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 3: kind of against your identity as a as a running team. 639 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 3: You look back at that and say, maybe we're just 640 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 3: taking a check because that's what they want you to 641 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 3: do if you're going to beat them. That's what Miami 642 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 3: did a few weeks before. That's how they beat him 643 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 3: by throwing it all over the place. 644 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 2: Miami was Miami, Miami was Miami, quick pass getting rid 645 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: of it. That was that was their unique thing. New England. 646 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,000 Speaker 2: We were New England. We ran the football and I 647 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: know I was wanting to run the football, man, I 648 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,280 Speaker 2: didn't want to. We weren't gonna get soft. It was 649 00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 2: a fist fight, brawl and we were ready for it. 650 00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:57,840 Speaker 2: You mentioned some of the best teams that you were on. 651 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,840 Speaker 2: Is it sad five AFT team in that conversation for you, Craig, Yes, absolutely. 652 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 2: And to accomplish what we did not expected to do that, 653 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 2: and to go on the road three playoff games in 654 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 2: a row, which, as you mentioned, was the first time 655 00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 2: that had ever happened. I think it's maybe happened once. 656 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:16,920 Speaker 1: Since The Ravens might have done it right that I think, 657 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: so it's a hard task. 658 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 2: I mean, home field advantage means something in the NFL, 659 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 2: and we took that away from them. And so it 660 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: was a great football team that we had here. I 661 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 2: thought we were better than next year in eighty six 662 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 2: and that we were heading to the to the super 663 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 2: Bowl again, and it just it reminded me of how 664 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,720 Speaker 2: hard it is to get to the Super Bowl. We 665 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,959 Speaker 2: go to Denver and we can't meet John Elway, we 666 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,280 Speaker 2: ran out of gas, the altitude, whatever it was, John Elway. 667 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 2: But I thought we were better and going to have 668 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 2: a great chance that next year. So we discussed about 669 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 2: that one. 670 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: We discussed that because we said they were better in 671 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 1: eighty six and they were in eighty five. 672 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:55,280 Speaker 2: Why did you think you were better? Experience, You've been there, 673 00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 2: you've done it. Confidence, We're not hoping or guessing. We've 674 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 2: been there, we've done this. We can and get in 675 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 2: that Super Bowl game again. And so it's all it 676 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 2: was between the ears that we were better, which made 677 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:06,920 Speaker 2: us better physically on the field. 678 00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 3: So you had some similarities there. You talk about being 679 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,000 Speaker 3: the road team and how difficult it is. We know 680 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 3: about the Orange Bowl on eighteen or whatever, consecutive losses. 681 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,960 Speaker 3: Mile High was the same. You know, yes, what which 682 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 3: first of all, which one did you think was more 683 00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:22,520 Speaker 3: difficult to play? 684 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,560 Speaker 4: Was it mile High? Because of the altstitude. 685 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,040 Speaker 2: We even went out that eighty six season, we went 686 00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 2: and spent a week training in Colorado Springs, higher altitude 687 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: and I and it was going to get us ready 688 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,080 Speaker 2: for the game. So opening series, I have like a 689 00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: ten yard run, I go around a corner, I'm tapping 690 00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 2: my helmet, I'm coming out. I'm like that. Well, that 691 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 2: so much for that strategy. It just it's a real 692 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: advantage for any pro team in Denver to have a 693 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,920 Speaker 2: visitor come in there who's not used to the altitude. 694 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: When you look back at it, Craig, because then injuries 695 00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: like what happens with a lot of people in the 696 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 1: NFL happened. You know, how do you look back at 697 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: you know, obviously fondly, but how do you look back 698 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,000 Speaker 1: at your NFL career? 699 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I had the ability to 700 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 2: run for ten thousand plus yards in the NFL. But 701 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 2: you got to stay healthy, you have to get lucky. 702 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 2: And in my time, when my shoulder went out on 703 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 2: me and it dislocated, out the backside, which was rare 704 00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:23,959 Speaker 2: and unique. One of my strengths was I was strong, 705 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: and I would get in the weight room in the 706 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 2: off season and I was really strong, and then I 707 00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 2: found myself doing arm curls and you know, dumbbell presses 708 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:36,280 Speaker 2: and you know, pretty boy weights, and that wasn't my style. 709 00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:40,200 Speaker 2: And so I'm sad that I wasn't able to play 710 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 2: another four or five years with a great offensive line 711 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,800 Speaker 2: and a great system. But I'm also amazed that I 712 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,280 Speaker 2: got to play in the NFL. I was blessed have 713 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:54,280 Speaker 2: played here in a Pro Bowl, being named Lombardi NFL 714 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 2: Offensive Player of the Year of Patriots MVP. I think 715 00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,640 Speaker 2: I'm on the All Decades team in the eighties here 716 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,240 Speaker 2: as a kid. Are you kidding me? That I got 717 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 2: a chance to do that in the National Football League 718 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:07,240 Speaker 2: for the New England Patriots. What a blessing? 719 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: And can you can you put into words? And I 720 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,080 Speaker 1: don't know if you talk about it with guys like 721 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,600 Speaker 1: Tony Collins or people like that. 722 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,360 Speaker 2: Again, you guys lit the match. 723 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: Okay, it wasn't linear, it didn't always it wasn't just 724 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 1: that straight trajectory. 725 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 2: But when you see what the. 726 00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:27,360 Speaker 1: Organization has become and the success that they had, it 727 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: had to start someplace. They're a little bit of pride 728 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: that people like yourself and others go. You know what, 729 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,720 Speaker 1: Kudos to them, Kudos to Bob Craft who really took 730 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: this thing and they and took it to the next level. 731 00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: But we helped start something, you know, to make this 732 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: an asset that his family wanted to buy. 733 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 2: So think about Bob Craft. I'm sure he was a 734 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: Patriots fan of the nineteen eighty five team, no question. 735 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,640 Speaker 2: He's watching this organization do that and gets almost there 736 00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 2: to a world championship, a super Bowl, and then he 737 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,560 Speaker 2: has the money and the ability to come in and 738 00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,880 Speaker 2: buy it. It had an impact on him. So it 739 00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 2: impacted the family of Patriot fans, organization players. When they 740 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 2: come through here and they go through the Hall of Fame, 741 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,400 Speaker 2: they see what's on those walls in there, and it 742 00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 2: started in nineteen eighty five. We got there, we knocked 743 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:16,880 Speaker 2: on the door, and very very proud of that. 744 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 3: Do you get much interaction with those players, those teammates 745 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,640 Speaker 3: you know from those mid eighties teams. 746 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: No, not really, just because I live in Texas, you know, 747 00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 2: I do have a home and I've spent every summer 748 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 2: up here on the Cape, and I just we love 749 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,960 Speaker 2: New England. Last year, like I said, being a part 750 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 2: of the Tom Brady Hall of Fame celebration here reminds you, 751 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,520 Speaker 2: as a player, how fortunate you were to be a 752 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 2: part of this organization. So thankful. I think back to 753 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,400 Speaker 2: the AFC Championship room we got. You know, I don't 754 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:50,280 Speaker 2: wear it all the time. I'm told that the cost 755 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 2: of each player's ring was about what Billy Sullivan paid 756 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:57,040 Speaker 2: for the whole organization. So nowadays you look at these 757 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,560 Speaker 2: rings and they're just monstrous. Nineteen eighty seven, walking out 758 00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:04,080 Speaker 2: on Route one with my teammates on strike for free 759 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 2: agency Plan B. We got Dak Prescott when he signed 760 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,600 Speaker 2: that five hundred and fifty million dollar deal. I just 761 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:11,160 Speaker 2: had a chance to go to his home and to 762 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,759 Speaker 2: meet him, and he said, hey, thank you for what 763 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,960 Speaker 2: you guys did. That's what it's all about. I was like, man, 764 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 2: I was already a Dak fan. But for these kids today, 765 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,880 Speaker 2: football is still blocking and tackling. Zone defense. Man defense 766 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 2: a combination. You got to block and tackle, you can 767 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 2: get fancy. We had to run with me, check with 768 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:31,480 Speaker 2: me at the line of scrimmage for pass or run 769 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 2: as well, and they try to act like it's different. 770 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 2: But it was a violent game back then. And today's 771 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 2: players not that they couldn't have played in that era, 772 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 2: but they'd had to learn how to play in an 773 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,240 Speaker 2: era where there were no unprotected play I mean, defenseless players. 774 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,960 Speaker 2: You could tackle the quarterback however you want to tackle him. 775 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,200 Speaker 2: You could hit a receiver however you wanted to hit him. 776 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 2: It was a violent game and I'm just thankful that 777 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:55,239 Speaker 2: I got a chance to do it. 778 00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:56,879 Speaker 1: Deuce is going to be pissed if I don't get 779 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:00,560 Speaker 1: this one in. As we've talked about gen and who 780 00:35:00,640 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: had three touchdown passes in that eighty five season. 781 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 2: That's right, how about that? And I'd have had four? 782 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 2: Irving Friar dropped one, I'd have had two. What do 783 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:13,239 Speaker 2: you think? 784 00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 4: Irving would would probably say a lot time we had 785 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:15,880 Speaker 4: a cut on his hand. 786 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,839 Speaker 2: Nowy Smurf would say, right, CJ Man, I'm sorry, did 787 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:23,360 Speaker 2: you like? Did you like that that they implemented that? Absolutely? 788 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:27,080 Speaker 2: Half back pass was amazing because it forced if I'm 789 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 2: back there at tailback and they would give me that 790 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,680 Speaker 2: and I ran it in college I threw a bunch 791 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 2: of as well. It forced the safety just to pause 792 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 2: or the corner coming up. Is he gonna throw it? 793 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,400 Speaker 2: Or is he going to run this thing? And it 794 00:35:39,520 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: just gave me just a little bit of an edge. 795 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 2: My last one that I threw was to a defensive 796 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,520 Speaker 2: back for the Denver Broncos. It was completed just to 797 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:49,479 Speaker 2: the wrong guy. That's great. 798 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 4: Do you watch much of the game now, do you? 799 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:53,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, you're still But you know what's different. The twenty 800 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,480 Speaker 2: three years that I did the broadcast in announcing games, 801 00:35:56,520 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 2: I knew every trainer, equipment, manager, player, I knew all. Nowadays, 802 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 2: I'm just a fan. You know. I don't know anybody. 803 00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:04,920 Speaker 2: I know. There's a kid here from SMU on the 804 00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 2: team trying to make it here, Brandon Crossley. I hope, 805 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 2: I hope. BC's a great player, passionate. But I mean, 806 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,439 Speaker 2: I don't know these guys. I watch them, I follow them, 807 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 2: and I see them and I see their struggles and 808 00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 2: how hard it is. Do you like being a fan? 809 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,799 Speaker 2: Is it fun to be a fan? It's easier being 810 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 2: a fan? Yeah, you know, it really is. I missed 811 00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 2: the microphone. Every once in a while, whenever something comes 812 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,320 Speaker 2: up where there's an item or an issue a change. 813 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:35,000 Speaker 2: College football is going to change again. There's gonna be 814 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,960 Speaker 2: another shift, and it's going to be all Big ten 815 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:39,320 Speaker 2: and all the SEC schools, and they're going to invite 816 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 2: another thirty ish from around to join them. And so 817 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 2: there's a scramble to be part of that next thirty 818 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 2: in the next four or five years. And that's taking 819 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 2: place in the NFL. The guys who come in here, 820 00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:53,400 Speaker 2: you know, if you could sit down and talk to 821 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:55,919 Speaker 2: them and say, hey, look, I remember as forty years 822 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 2: ago when older guys would walk in and talk to us, 823 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 2: I would say to them, one of these days, you're 824 00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,320 Speaker 2: going to be that sixty four year old guy sitting there, 825 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,640 Speaker 2: and you're gonna be finished. And it's a fleeting moment 826 00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 2: that you're playing. Could be seven years, it could be 827 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,120 Speaker 2: fourteen years, ten years, two years, it's gonna be over with. 828 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:16,640 Speaker 2: So do whatever you can to be accountable to yourself 829 00:37:17,200 --> 00:37:19,239 Speaker 2: and accountable to your teammates, and if you do that, 830 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,279 Speaker 2: you'll have success. Great message, great thanks for coming by. 831 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,840 Speaker 2: Great to see you, man. You guys have rushed the 832 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,680 Speaker 2: memories back to me, and I thank y'all so much 833 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 2: for allowing me to be a part of this. 834 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:33,919 Speaker 5: Hey this is Evan. Thanks for tuning into the show. 835 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 5: If you really want to help us, make sure to 836 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:39,600 Speaker 5: like us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get 837 00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 5: your podcasts. Also make sure to fall on the New 838 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:44,959 Speaker 5: England Patriots YouTube channel see this show and everything else 839 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,840 Speaker 5: we do here at the Patriots. Thanks a lot