WEBVTT - The 10 Defining Golf Courses of the Past 15 Years 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:04.160 Here's the thought experiment. You're a golf nerd and it's 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:08.240 twenty fifty five. When you look back on the years 0:00:08.280 --> 0:00:12.600 between twenty ten and twenty twenty five, what are the 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.439 ten golf courses that define that period for you? What 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:20.000 are the really great ones, or the influential ones, or 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.120 just the ones that represent the era in some way. 0:00:24.040 --> 0:00:26.840 In this episode, we're trying to figure out what those 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:31.520 courses will be the ten defining golf courses of the 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:40.559 past fifteen years. I'm Garrett Morrison and this is designing golf, 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.559 all right. So I'm here with my colleagues Andy Johnson 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.360 and Matt Ruschius, Andy, founder of Frida Egg Golf. How 0:00:49.440 --> 0:00:50.040 you doing today? 0:00:50.440 --> 0:00:53.159 I'm doing great, Excited to do this. This is I 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:56.160 have to say, I'm a little jealous that I didn't 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:00.080 think of this topic for the Fried Egg Pod. So 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:01.760 this is a fun thought experiment. 0:01:02.120 --> 0:01:04.680 And Matt you're here as well. How are you doing 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:06.319 doing well? 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.360 Excited to hear what you guys have to say, because 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.600 I feel like you can kind of take the word 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:16.280 defining in very many different directions. So I'm curious to 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:18.360 see you guys's point of view and see how it 0:01:18.360 --> 0:01:19.160 differs from mine. 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:21.080 Yeah. Well, first of all, before we get into the 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:27.080 discussion of what constitutes defining, I should address the timeframe 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:29.920 that we've chosen here, twenty ten to twenty twenty five. 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:32.200 First of all, I need to acknowledge that that is 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:37.480 in fact sixteen years. The time from the beginning of 0:01:37.520 --> 0:01:40.160 twenty ten to the end of twenty twenty five is 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:42.800 in fact sixteen years, But I'm calling it the past 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.919 fifteen years because I just really don't feel like calling 0:01:45.959 --> 0:01:51.000 it the past sixteen years. In any case. The idea 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:54.120 behind this timeframe is that what we're dealing with here 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:59.040 is the post recession era, and the recession was a 0:01:59.120 --> 0:02:03.080 major shock to golf course development and golf course architecture. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.480 It changed the way that things had to be done. 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:08.680 And so what we're talking about is this is this 0:02:08.760 --> 0:02:13.640 odd little time period from about twenty ten to to 0:02:13.720 --> 0:02:17.320 the current day where the golf course industry had to 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.400 reinvent itself in some ways. And then there was another 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.320 shock in the middle of it in COVID. And of 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.080 course things have changed big time once again during the 0:02:27.120 --> 0:02:29.680 twenty twenties. So I thought it was a good moment 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:31.760 here at the end of twenty twenty five to kind 0:02:31.760 --> 0:02:35.160 of reflect on what this period has meant in the 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.960 golf course industry and talk about some of the courses 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.600 that have stood out in some way. But yeah, I've 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:43.760 chosen this adjective defining for the episode. There are a 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.480 number of other you know, there are various various adjectives 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:49.360 I could have gone with here. I did not go 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:52.680 with best for a reason. You know, this is not 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.079 a list of the best courses that we're going to 0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:57.959 do because I was a little bit less interested in 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.440 speaking in those terms. Yeah, when you guys think of 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:06.639 what constitutes a defining course, what do you think of, Andy, 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.440 what comes to mind when you think of a defining 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:10.080 golf course? 0:03:10.240 --> 0:03:12.880 I think one of the keys here is you're prompt 0:03:12.960 --> 0:03:17.600 of is twenty fifty five, and you're thinking back to 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.560 this period of time, and it would be the courses 0:03:21.600 --> 0:03:25.080 that jumped your mind, and I kind of think of 0:03:25.200 --> 0:03:31.120 defining into different superlative buckets. This is not the best 0:03:31.880 --> 0:03:36.320 they are to me, golf courses that that they could 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.080 be the best, Like you're going to have like what 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:43.000 you think is the best of that period, but also 0:03:43.320 --> 0:03:46.360 there are other bins that you could put it in 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:51.200 as most influential things that changed the way people thought 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:55.520 of certain types of golf. And I think that's the 0:03:56.360 --> 0:04:00.800 premise here which makes this a really fun discussion, because 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.559 it isn't necessarily the. 0:04:03.320 --> 0:04:04.600 Best golf courses. 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.800 It is the ones that kind of changed the way 0:04:09.360 --> 0:04:12.760 that the general public thought about a certain type of golf. 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.760 Is my kind of way I'm I'm approaching this or 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:21.359 the way that maybe it possibly influenced and changed the 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:26.560 way golf courses were built, or how it changed the 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.880 trends in golf course architecture. Like that's the way I'm 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:32.200 thinking about it a little bit. 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.920 Yes, and these can be changes for better for worse. Yes, 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.280 you know, I think most of the courses that we'll 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:43.320 talk about we would probably argue for better. We're not 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:47.719 going to talk about many, if any straight up bad courses. 0:04:48.440 --> 0:04:52.279 But these are not necessarily, as you say, the best courses. 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.599 They are there, they just loom large in the historical period. 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.120 They are historically important in some way, Matt, anything to 0:04:59.120 --> 0:05:02.520 add to that with this you task of trying to 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.080 define what defining means? 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:09.000 Yeah, I think Andy summed up kind of what I immediately 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.120 thought to of when you kind of gave this prompt 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.120 to us. One thing that I kind of like keyed 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:19.320 in on was trying to identify golf courses from this 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:23.160 era that like set a precedent and then kind of 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.599 like were these trailblazers for a new model of golf 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:30.840 or like a kind of radical way of thinking, So 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:34.960 trying to pinpoint like that origin golf course that kind 0:05:34.960 --> 0:05:38.000 of like paved this way for other courses to come 0:05:38.160 --> 0:05:41.919 from behind it. So that was one thing that I 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:45.120 kind of used to try and target, like one that's 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.160 more defining than another, because a lot of them can 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.600 fall in the same buckets when you go through the list. 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:54.800 Yeah, which course first of all came first and which 0:05:54.839 --> 0:06:00.000 course actually brought about the change, you know, because sometimes 0:06:00.200 --> 0:06:02.320 some courses come first, but they don't have quite the 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.520 effect that the second effort has. I think we'll talk 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.440 about a couple of those examples in this episode. But 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:13.680 it's interesting how history works sometimes where something might be first, 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.880 but it doesn't necessarily change everything right away. It is 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:20.760 the second thing in that genre or in that vein 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:25.280 that really pushes it. But being first is important, and 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:29.000 the things that are that come the earliest will we'll 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:32.200 definitely get some priority here. So yeah, I mean when 0:06:32.240 --> 0:06:35.120 I think of defining, I break it down into a 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:39.120 few different buckets. A course can be defining in like 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.680 a number of different ways, and it doesn't necessarily have 0:06:41.760 --> 0:06:44.960 to be any one of these things. It doesn't have 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.920 to be all of these things. So a course can 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:51.560 be defining just by being really great. So that's one thing, 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.360 right when we think of the defining courses of the 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:59.080 of the nineteen teams in the US, those are National 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.599 Golf Links and Pine Valley, maybe a couple others, but 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:04.680 they're the really great courses. And so that's one thing 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.600 that you certainly need to consider. But you don't necessarily 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:13.080 need greatness to be defining. You can also have influence. 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:15.520 It can be an influential course, which is a lot 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.200 of what you guys are speaking to. A course that 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:22.320 changes something, changes the way that people view architecture or development. 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.480 You can have a course that's sort of representative of 0:07:25.520 --> 0:07:28.520 a larger trend. That's another way a course can be defining. 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:34.800 A course that kind of embodies a broader historical dynamic 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.400 that is going on in the period in which the 0:07:37.440 --> 0:07:41.480 course was built. And then finally there's there's you know 0:07:42.120 --> 0:07:44.480 another category that I want to consider here, and that 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.280 is uniqueness. And so this is almost sort of opposed 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:51.800 to being representative of a larger historical trend, right because 0:07:52.000 --> 0:07:55.600 if you're representative, you're by definition not not unique. But 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.840 I think courses can be defining by by having some 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.320 thing about them that is just different, and they can 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:07.160 stand out for that reason. So I think really any 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.320 of those factors can be can be at play here. 0:08:11.280 --> 0:08:14.120 So all right, so's those are our general criteria. I 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:17.880 want to dive now into actually picking some courses, and 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.720 as we as we pick courses, we can kind of 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:24.080 talk about some of the broader macro trends of golf 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:26.840 architecture and development over the past fifteen years, which I 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:30.800 think are very interesting. But the way we're going to 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:33.560 do this is kind of draft style. But it's not 0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:38.320 a competitive draft necessarily. We're not selecting courses so that 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.200 we have the best three courses or whatever. We're trying 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:45.000 to sort of collaborate here to come up with the 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:48.880 best list of ten courses, and we'll alternate choosing one 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.000 course at a time until we get to nine, and 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:54.120 then at the end we'll, you know, together, we'll kind 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:56.920 of choose a tenth course that we really think should 0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.520 be on the list. So that's kind of the method 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.320 that we'll use here, and I will, you know, make 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.920 a note before we start picking courses that, you know, 0:09:06.000 --> 0:09:10.640 for our international listeners, we are three Americans here. We 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:14.120 all live in the US. We are most familiar with 0:09:14.480 --> 0:09:17.480 US courses. Now, we we aren't necessarily going to be 0:09:17.520 --> 0:09:21.880 choosing all courses that we have seen. We can select 0:09:22.000 --> 0:09:24.679 courses that we haven't been to but we know to 0:09:24.720 --> 0:09:28.360 be defining in some way. But just the fact that 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:32.079 we live in the US and have been involved in 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.360 a golf World discussion that that kind of revolves around us, 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:39.800 you know, talking to other Americans and seeing American courses, 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:42.079 that's going to put an idea in our minds that 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:46.600 American courses kind of are are maybe a bigger deal 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:48.960 than they would be to somebody who lives in South 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.240 Africa or somebody who lives in New Zealand. So we'll 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:55.839 try to be we'll try to make some gestures toward 0:09:56.200 --> 0:09:59.600 international news, but this is our list. We are three Americans, 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:01.720 and just take it. Take it in that spirit. We're 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:04.280 not trying to be We're not trying to be defining 0:10:04.440 --> 0:10:08.640 with our defining list. All right, why don't we start 0:10:09.200 --> 0:10:12.720 with Andy's pick? Andy, I'm gonna give you the first pick. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:16.280 And you're being so deferential giving me the first pick here. 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:18.520 It's it's very kind of me. I know that we 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:22.360 all really wanted to have the first pick. Andy. What 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:24.120 do you? What do you? What are you gonna? Where 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:26.640 are you gonna go with for our first defining golf 0:10:26.720 --> 0:10:27.720 course of this period? 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:29.680 Yeah? 0:10:29.840 --> 0:10:33.319 I this is this is hard to pick first. 0:10:34.559 --> 0:10:36.520 I know. I looked at it myself and I tried 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:38.480 to figure out which course I would pick first, and 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:39.880 I could not figure it out. 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:44.040 I'm gonna go with Terry d number one. 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:46.640 Going international right off the bat. That's great. 0:10:46.679 --> 0:10:50.680 Yeah, I I just am picking this because it this 0:10:50.800 --> 0:10:54.720 golf course and the the success of it, leading to 0:10:55.440 --> 0:11:01.559 the tri I golf courses being built, has thrust the 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:08.240 North Island of New Zealand into like dream trip for 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:13.960 ardent golf fans, golf travelers. It has made New Zealand 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:21.120 a you know, extremely you know, desired golf destination. And 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:24.480 there were great golf courses on New Zealand, you know, 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:29.720 in New Zealand before Terry Dy there were but Terry 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:34.400 Edy and the level of that it's reached on I 0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.160 think on one of the world lists it's in. 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:36.800 The top ten. 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:42.679 The impact that it then that then followed with the 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.720 building of a world class resort that's open to the public. 0:11:48.040 --> 0:11:52.040 I think this you're talking about lifting an entire country's 0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:57.360 you know, tourism economy and making it a world class 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:58.280 golf destination. 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.000 To me, if i'm you know. 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:04.880 Comes down to it, I think it completely changed the 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.640 golf landscape in New Zealand and will continue to change 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.280 the golf landscape in New Zealand. 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:11.040 We're seeing more. 0:12:10.960 --> 0:12:13.840 And more development there and I think we will continue 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:16.720 to see more and more development there and New Zealand. 0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:21.160 You know, if it's the year twenty fifty, I think 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.040 New Zealand will be among you know, the most sought 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:28.319 after golf vacations as people have more time and travel 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:29.480 becomes easier. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.160 Matt Any thoughts about this course. 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.080 Yeah, the one thing that kind of jumped to my mind, 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:37.240 and this is sort of a recency bias take here, 0:12:37.800 --> 0:12:41.280 but there's a lot of people talking about Children's Hall 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.160 course getting into golf dot COM's top one hundred world 0:12:45.240 --> 0:12:48.800 rankings at seventy third, and I looked back and when 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:54.120 Tera Edy debuted in their same rankings, it was twenty ninth. Yeah, 0:12:54.160 --> 0:12:58.840 so nearly like forty places higher than all this like 0:12:59.160 --> 0:13:02.240 talk came about out with Children's Hall joining in at 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.840 like seventy fourth or whatever it was. So it had 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:10.199 this like enormous splash in kind of the modern golf 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:14.720 ecosystem when it was debuted, and it continues to climb 0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:18.560 in like every publishing ranking. I know when I was 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.160 like younger, and I was like I created a list 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.920 of like courses I wanted to visit at some point 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:27.040 in my life when I was probably like fifteen or 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.079 sixteen years old, when I was starting to get into 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:32.000 golf architecture, and Tara Edie was like one of the 0:13:32.040 --> 0:13:34.880 first that I wrote down on my list. So like, 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:37.240 I feel like that kind of puts it in perspective 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:40.080 someone who doesn't really know that much and is getting 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.960 into it as already like pinpointing this golf course is 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.199 something notable, and it seems to be like kind of 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.280 a consensus that it's it's the best modern golf course 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:53.800 since since essentially like Sandhills that fits in this time 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:55.720 zone that we're talking about Matt. 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:58.840 Just the fact that you were fifteen or sixteen and 0:13:58.960 --> 0:14:02.000 tara Edy existed is kind of blowing my mind right 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:09.280 now because this course opened in twenty fifteen. So that's yeah, 0:14:09.360 --> 0:14:12.319 I'll just I'll just leave that behind. But yes, it is. 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:15.080 It has to be said that tara Ed is the 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.920 highest ranked golf course in this period that we're talking about, 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:23.080 and it's not really that close. I don't think when 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:25.840 you look at the world top one hundred rankings, and 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.000 of course you know, put whatever stock you want to 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:32.520 in these rankings, I don't personally put a ton, but 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:38.720 it is representative of influence and definingness. Right ta Ed 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.960 is blowing away the twenty ten to twenty twenty five 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:47.440 competition right now, and I think that's probably because one, 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:53.840 the golf course is really really excellent, wonderfully designed in 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:58.760 an incredible location. And also I think a factor here 0:14:59.520 --> 0:15:03.920 is the model of Tara Edy. This is a destination 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:09.200 private club that is connected now to a destination resort. 0:15:10.040 --> 0:15:15.000 And if we're talking about what the broader historical trend 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:19.840 is that Tera Edy represents between twenty ten and twenty 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:24.680 twenty five the rise of the destination private club and 0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:30.280 the continuing predominance of the destination resort is a big, 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:33.800 big story. I think tera Edy fits right into the 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.680 middle of that. It is relatively remote, not easy for 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.920 many people across the world to get to, but it 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:46.720 is attracting people because of how spectacular it is and 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:48.800 because of what people are saying about the course after 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:49.320 they play it. 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.760 I you know, I would agree with all of that. 0:15:54.320 --> 0:15:57.840 But I think when you're looking at this, you know, 0:15:57.920 --> 0:16:01.320 twenty five years from now, you're talking about the creation 0:16:01.840 --> 0:16:07.160 of a royal county down a La hinch A, you know, 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:12.840 Sunningdale in a country, a royal Melbourne of New Zealand. 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:17.320 And to me, that's the thing, is like, there are 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:19.760 a lot of courses, great courses in New Zealand that 0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:23.160 I want to go see, but nothing of the world 0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:28.359 class caliber. And I think to be a great golf destination, 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.240 you know, to be one where you know, loads of 0:16:32.280 --> 0:16:35.720 tourists are coming to and flocking to, you have to 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.600 have the top of the top, the top shelf, and 0:16:39.760 --> 0:16:42.400 at that, no matter what else do you want to say, 0:16:42.400 --> 0:16:44.800 it could have any model in the world, it could 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.160 be daily fee, it would still be at this point, 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:50.840 you know, A good question would be is it Would 0:16:50.840 --> 0:16:53.280 it be as highly rated if it was a daily fee. 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:56.320 That's that's what I sort of sort of doubt it 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.640 because the experience would be different, but you know it 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:03.520 wouldn't be I don't think it would drop out of 0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:04.439 the top one hundred. 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.720 Yeah, but this is a golf course that literally will 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:13.480 define New Zealand golf for the next one hundred years. 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:17.040 And that's why, like I when you know, you put 0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.600 the gun to my head, number one pick, this is it, Like, 0:17:20.720 --> 0:17:23.720 I don't think anything else can touch it, because no 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.880 other golf course that has been built in the last 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:32.040 fifteen years will have a cultural impact on an entire 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:36.760 country the way that Terry is having on New Zealand. 0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.600 Okay, very persuasive, Matt. I'm going to give you the 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:42.120 second pick. What are you going with? 0:17:43.720 --> 0:17:45.720 I thought this one was going to maybe be the 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.000 first pick, so shocked to that it's still here. But 0:17:49.840 --> 0:17:53.880 I'm going to go with the Lido at Sand Valley. 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:58.320 This was, in my purview, was probably. 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.480 Toward the top of all of our lists. Second Tom 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:04.399 Doak course in a row, though this one was a 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:08.960 collaboration between Tom Doak, Brian Schneider and C. B McDonald. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.280 Yeah, I guess, I guess you can put it that way. 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:15.960 I feel like it's a very hard one to pinpoint 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.280 who's is the true true the. 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.240 Robots built it, maybe, yeah, maybe Peter Floory built it. 0:18:21.560 --> 0:18:23.879 Brian Zeger would be. 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:27.480 Brian Zager is very important, Yeah. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.520 Peter Floory, Yeah, They're all important in this. 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:30.640 Yeah. 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:33.360 But this is a golf course that was built at 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:38.640 one period of time and essentially lost from its original location. 0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:47.119 With tons of historical research, data collection, creativity, and some 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:51.840 brilliant golf architects and golf mines came together and essentially 0:18:52.200 --> 0:18:56.720 recreated a golf course that is nearly over one hundred 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:01.280 years old and lost and created it in what seems 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:05.800 like near like as close as you possibly could with 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.760 the information that was present and the style that they 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:15.920 did it using GPS bulldozers where you're essentially plugging in 0:19:16.480 --> 0:19:22.600 data and essentially elevations on the ground and these bulldozers 0:19:22.960 --> 0:19:26.520 are just spitting out what that data is telling it to. 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.359 It was sort of a revolutionary way to build a 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:37.160 golf course and certainly a trail blazing style of golf 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:41.400 course construction. And we've already now seen more golf courses 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:45.600 using the same technology, even just this year building a 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:49.200 new golf course in Florida. So I think you have 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.200 to include this golf course of this era for defining. 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:57.320 This any thoughts about the Lido and its position in history, Andy. 0:19:58.040 --> 0:19:59.880 Yeah, I think Matt hit on it at the end. 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.119 This is a golf course that's going to revolutionize the 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:06.520 way golf courses are built. That's going to be it's 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.160 a lasting impact. It's a great it's super fun golf 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:14.040 course to play, It's a great golf course. It it 0:20:14.080 --> 0:20:17.439 has a super interesting model which I think will be 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.840 a similar model to you know how some more courses, 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:24.280 like we saw Forest Dunes is something doing something very similar, 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.119 uh in terms of model with Skyfall. But to me, 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:32.800 we're going to see so many golf courses built in 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:39.080 similar fashion with GPS, do dozers and the idea of mimicking. 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:41.280 You know, some. 0:20:41.240 --> 0:20:45.240 Features of famous golf courses, and I think we've already 0:20:45.240 --> 0:20:49.640 seen it. Sand Glass is a new course that's would 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:53.959 be on this list that use that technology and a 0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:57.880 you know, and it's a much different version of this. 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:03.000 The twenty one Club is another course that is opening. 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.720 I think next year you know they're doing some some 0:21:05.880 --> 0:21:08.160 preview play now, but you know they'd be a twenty 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:12.760 twenty six course that uses this type of technology. And 0:21:12.880 --> 0:21:16.760 I think, like what it's long term effect will be, 0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:21.080 you know, as we go forward, is it's going to 0:21:21.800 --> 0:21:25.320 change the definition of what a great site is because 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:29.840 of how wonderful this technology is is that you don't 0:21:29.880 --> 0:21:33.960 necessarily have to have a site with like the most 0:21:34.000 --> 0:21:38.800 sensational natural gifts where you have that like rolling dramatic 0:21:38.920 --> 0:21:42.440 sand dunes. I think what the bigger you know, kind 0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:47.439 of pull out here will be if you have deep sand, 0:21:47.720 --> 0:21:50.960 it can be flat and you can build a great 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:54.440 golf course. Because you see with the Lido, it is 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:57.760 not a naturally blessed site, but there is a great 0:21:57.800 --> 0:22:02.040 golf course on it. Sand glass from what I have 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:05.480 not been on site, from what I've been told, you know, 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:11.320 not a naturally gifted site, but very deep sand which 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:15.639 allowed them to create elevation by going both down and 0:22:16.080 --> 0:22:19.840 putting that stuff up. So I think the big thing 0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:25.320 here is those GPS, GPS dozers and the you know, 0:22:25.359 --> 0:22:28.080 the ability to punch in that is going to really 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:32.119 change the golf construction world. And that's going to be 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:35.480 something you know, twenty years from now, where that is 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:39.800 going to probably be pretty normal in golf course construction. 0:22:40.720 --> 0:22:43.480 There could be a historical shift in a couple of 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:47.040 ways with the LIDO. I think this point that you 0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:51.520 make andy about it potentially redefining what makes a good 0:22:51.600 --> 0:22:55.960 site for golf is an important one because a major 0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:01.720 overall narrative of the twenty ten to twenty twenty five period, 0:23:01.760 --> 0:23:05.199 and you could extend this period before that, is the 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:09.920 search for great sandy rolling sites, the search for great 0:23:09.920 --> 0:23:16.000 golf land that isn't enormously expensive, and so that has 0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:19.840 really driven a lot of development and a lot of 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:26.400 the best architecture of the past fifteen years. Maybe that 0:23:27.080 --> 0:23:29.720 might be starting to change. We can start to look 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:33.800 at sites that are a little bit closer to population 0:23:34.160 --> 0:23:39.640 centers potentially and do something interesting with them. Now, I'm 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.080 not suggesting that this will be cheap or that this 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:47.400 will be an accessible way to do architecture for every 0:23:47.480 --> 0:23:51.720 kind of client an architect and client base, but it 0:23:51.840 --> 0:23:55.640 certainly would be a very interesting shift. The other thing 0:23:55.640 --> 0:24:00.320 about the LEADO that's kind of representative of the period 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:02.280 that we're talking about. You know, we've talked about the 0:24:02.280 --> 0:24:06.120 ways in which the Lido is changing how things will 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:10.440 be done. But it also represents kind of the culmination 0:24:11.400 --> 0:24:16.600 of this love for Golden Age architecture, and more specifically 0:24:17.040 --> 0:24:20.080 the love for the architecture of CB McDonald and Seth Rayner. 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:24.840 As of thirty years ago, or even twenty five years ago, 0:24:25.560 --> 0:24:29.760 CB McDonald and Seth Rayner were not the most highly 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:35.640 respected Golden Age architects. Their profile was starting to increase 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:40.480 a little bit among golf course architecture officionados, but in 0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:43.640