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Speaker 1: Joseph, I know you very well and I think I

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Speaker 1: know the answer. But what was your dream job growing

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Speaker 1: up in El Paso, Texas?

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Speaker 2: Well, my dream job growing up was that I wanted

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Speaker 2: to help people and make people feel better, like pretty

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Speaker 2: like pretty, Yeah, pretty much. I just I wanted people

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Speaker 2: to come to me for me to make them feel pretty.

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Speaker 2: That was my dream job.

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Speaker 1: And fast forward and you are living the dream job

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Speaker 1: now as a celebrity makeup artist. But Joseph, what if

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Speaker 1: I told you that In nineteen ninety four, Selena Kitania

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Speaker 1: opened a hybrid beauty salon and fashion boutique.

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Speaker 2: Okay, a new dream job unlocked? Tell me more.

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Speaker 1: I mean we could have worked there together. I could

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Speaker 1: have styled the girls. You could have done their makeup.

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Speaker 1: We would have been the dream team for Selena's boutique. Okay.

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Speaker 1: So a year after Selena won her first Grammy, she

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Speaker 1: founded Selena et Cetera in Corpus and they had two

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Speaker 1: locations right, one in Corpus, one in San Antonio, and

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Speaker 1: each location was a one stop shop for everything like

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Speaker 1: head to toe. By the way, why does this not

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Speaker 1: exist now? So if you walked into her store, you

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Speaker 1: could get your hair done, your nails done, you could

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Speaker 1: shop for like your birthday look, and among those looks

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Speaker 1: were all racks and racks of pieces designed by Selena

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Speaker 1: herself alongside designer Martin Gomez. So we are talking one

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Speaker 1: stop shop for style.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I would definitely be overqualified because I was

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Speaker 2: just in l I have sixteen Vogue stories, five Vogue covers.

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Speaker 2: I mean, what do you see?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm pretty sure you would have been like

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Speaker 1: a dream higher for the Keith Nias. Not gonna lie

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Speaker 1: like they would kill to have your talent. But sadly

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Speaker 1: we all know that Selena et Cetera is not around anymore.

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Speaker 2: Oooh okay, how dare you give me a new dream

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Speaker 2: job only to crush my dreams right in front of me.

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Speaker 1: I know it wasn't very nice to me, but I

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Speaker 1: was just trying to set the scene for our audience listening.

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Speaker 2: It's fine, It's fine, all in the line of Judy

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Speaker 2: as a podcast co host. Anyway, continue, okay.

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Speaker 1: So Selena Etcetera was Selena's first business excursion outside of music,

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Speaker 1: and after the breakout success of nineteen ninety two's and

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Speaker 1: Tremimundo and nineteen ninety three's Selena Live. Selena's power as

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Speaker 1: a brand was clear.

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Speaker 2: And her iconic, if slightly beatle does she look for?

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Speaker 2: The cover of Entremimundo was her own design, as were

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Speaker 2: many of her on stage looks.

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Speaker 1: No, she was a fashion designer, maybe not like classically trained,

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Speaker 1: but she definitely had a point of view, and so

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Speaker 1: this boutique for her made a ton of sense creatively

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Speaker 1: and business wise, and as a nice bonus. It was

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Speaker 1: a venture that Abraham would have zero control over.

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Speaker 2: Oh the mohawk energy continues.

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Speaker 1: And for this exact reason, her dad was really resistant

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Speaker 1: to this business. But Selena et Cetera opened its doors

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Speaker 1: to immediate success, and Selena would soon enter negotiations to

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Speaker 1: open other locations in Monterrey and in Puerto Rico, and

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Speaker 1: over the course of just a year, Selena et Cetera

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Speaker 1: would met the singer more than five million dollars. Hold

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Speaker 1: on a second, can we just talk about the fact

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Speaker 1: that Selena was an influencer before all of these influencer

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Speaker 1: bitches like here we are now with all these influencer collections,

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Speaker 1: this girl was the og influencer.

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Speaker 2: I mean five million dollars from two locations. She was

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Speaker 2: five million dollars.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that now, like a nineteen ninety four five million

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Speaker 1: dollars was bank.

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Speaker 2: That's fifty billion. She was literally over. I'm telling you,

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Speaker 2: she's building an empire overnight.

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Speaker 1: And it was an empire made up of legions of

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Speaker 1: her devoted fans. Honestly, if she were around today, oh

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Speaker 1: my god. I know that the number one most followed

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Speaker 1: person on Instagram is Selena Gomez, but I have a

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Speaker 1: feeling Quintania would dethrone Gomez as like the queen of social.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's capital f fandom. Your behind your swifties.

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Speaker 2: They do not compare to the follow up.

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Speaker 1: No, but back before fans could tap into a network

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Speaker 1: of millions with the tap of a phone. These diehard

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Speaker 1: fans had fan clubs, regional fan clubs.

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Speaker 2: Fans had to put in the work. Back in the day,

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Speaker 2: you would pay a fee through the mail to get

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Speaker 2: access to exclusive fan goodies. Again through the mail, the

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Speaker 2: snail mail, like the mailbox.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and back in the day, if you wanted more Selena,

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Speaker 1: this is how you got it. By nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 1: Selena's biggest San Antonio area fan club had reached more

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Speaker 1: than five thousand members.

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Speaker 2: Together with your fashion boutiques. This was the start of

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Speaker 2: something big the empire.

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Speaker 1: But sadly, the very same person in charge of those

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Speaker 1: new pillars of Selena's empire would be the one to

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Speaker 1: bring about its premature end. I know Joseph today on

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Speaker 1: Becoming an Icon, Selena's meteoric rise and untimely fall. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Liliana Osquez.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Joseph Carrio and this is Becoming an Icon.

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Speaker 1: A weekly podcast where we give you the rundown on

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Speaker 1: how today's most famous Latin v stars have shaped pop culture.

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Speaker 2: And given the world some extra level.

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Speaker 1: Sit back and get comfortable.

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Speaker 2: Because we are going in the only way we know.

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Speaker 1: How with whenas, I'm unassas and a lot of opinions

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Speaker 1: as we relive their greatest achievements on our journey to

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Speaker 1: find out what makes them still iconic. After the success

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Speaker 1: of enfre Mi Mundo, there came no rest for the weary.

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Speaker 2: Selena Ilosdino's found themselves on a tight deadline for the

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Speaker 2: follow up, so much so that they skipped their usual

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Speaker 2: January vacation to work on the album.

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Speaker 1: Production on Amor Privido lasted six months while recording took

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Speaker 1: around two weeks, as did post production. Recording was snuck

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Speaker 1: in in between touring commitments and opening of Selena's aforementioned

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Speaker 1: fashion boutiques.

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Speaker 2: This makes it sound like such a rush job, and

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Speaker 2: yet it's arguably their best album.

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Speaker 1: I mean, some people thrive with a deadline. I am

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Speaker 1: part of that club. Agreed, and fortunately at this point

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Speaker 1: in the band's career they were firing on all cylinders.

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Speaker 2: Singles like Comola Floor had broken Selena through the audiences

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Speaker 2: from all across the Latino world. So with amor Pramdo,

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Speaker 2: the band pushed the limits of Cumbia like they never

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Speaker 2: had before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's the mix of Mariacci and Cumbia on Cunaves

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Speaker 1: that song.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's a cumbia fied cover of a Pretender

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Speaker 2: song Photosqueros.

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Speaker 1: What photosuerdos is not an original Selena song? Why do

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Speaker 1: you know everything?

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Speaker 2: It was born that way?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So this is why I love doing this podcast

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Speaker 1: because that is one of my favorite Selena songs. And

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Speaker 1: I did not know that photos Iriquerdos is a Cumbia

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Speaker 1: fied version of a Pretender song. I straight up thought

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Speaker 1: Aby wrote that and was like jamming it out. Wow,

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Speaker 1: the more you know the more you know. Okay, back

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Speaker 1: to the podcast, and by the way, there's of course

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Speaker 1: the reggae cumbia of b O.

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Speaker 2: Love, and it's all tied together with that voice. Selena

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Speaker 2: is innocent and buvely on the title track and on

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Speaker 2: Chico de la Partamento close. Then on souna vest she's

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Speaker 2: snarling vengeful as she disavows her former love.

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Speaker 1: Same with the closing track. Ya know, she goes full roquet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. According to Chris, Selena had sort of fallen in

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Speaker 2: love with acting. By that point. She had appeared in

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Speaker 2: a number of Mexican tele novelas in the past couple

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Speaker 2: of years and was in negotiations to star in one.

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Speaker 2: She probably brought that cher performances in the booth.

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Speaker 1: One thousand percent. You could really see her starting to

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Speaker 1: scratch that acting itch. When she started putting out the

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Speaker 1: videos for songs like Amorribido and Noma Kadamas like girl

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Speaker 1: was serving you face.

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Speaker 2: She was definitely in every single shot front and back.

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Speaker 2: She was. She is a star. I know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's talk about amor Pribido because every time

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Speaker 1: I see this video, it is such a bizarre video

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Speaker 1: for that song, Like when you hear the song Amobido,

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Speaker 1: I just don't think like Joshua Tree, Selena like dancing doors. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: despite the weird sets in the middle of the desert.

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Speaker 1: One thing that he for me in this video is

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Speaker 1: Selena's wardrobe. Yes, guys, it is so quintessential classic Selena.

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Speaker 1: So she is in like her Levi She's got her

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Speaker 1: white button down, very tight painted Levi's and then she's

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Speaker 1: got Chris's shirt that she like tied up like crop

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Speaker 1: top style.

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Speaker 2: The way she wore those oversized shirts so well, but

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Speaker 2: also such tight clothes, like she really just would bring it.

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Speaker 2: She would bring it. So speaking of bringing it, hold

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Speaker 2: on back to Nomakadamas. The dress. I can't like the

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Speaker 2: way she showed up like a star. She's such a

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Speaker 2: pageant girl.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's the beauty queen.

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Speaker 2: Like the curl and the front her hair, that dress.

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Speaker 2: Didn't she wear that dress before?

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Speaker 1: Yes, you have such a good eye. So the dress

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Speaker 1: that Selena is wearing in the video for Noma Ka

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Speaker 1: Damas is actually her Grammy's dress that she wore to

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Speaker 1: accept her grammy. But I think what so cool about

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Speaker 1: this dress is that do you know that she bought

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Speaker 1: it at the mall.

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Speaker 2: Of course she was at the mall eating pizza. Duh.

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Speaker 1: She obviously bought it at the mall. She was like,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna wear this dress and win a Grammy and

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Speaker 1: then I'm going to get my cost per wear out

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Speaker 1: of it and wear it in the v Vale.

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Speaker 2: Hello.

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Speaker 1: She bought it at the Houston Galeria. And the dress

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Speaker 1: was from a brand who I'm blanking on the name

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Speaker 1: of the brand, but it was part of the Cachet family.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember Cache Stop dude.

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Speaker 2: So I would go with my mom and my friends

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Speaker 2: take Cashet during Christmas. At the church that I went to,

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Speaker 2: they had something called the Haaladazzle and everybody would have

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Speaker 2: to look the best, and so no one would go

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Speaker 2: to Express or anything like that. Everyone would go to

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Speaker 2: Cachet to get like the dresses. I can't believe I

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Speaker 2: remember that, and now it probably sells for I don't

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Speaker 2: even know well.

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Speaker 1: Fun fact, so that dress is actually completely out of production,

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Speaker 1: and so when the costume designer for the Jennifer Lopez

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Speaker 1: Lina movie went to get the original, they actually remade

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Speaker 1: it just for the film for j Loo, which is

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Speaker 1: amazing because like they didn't even have it anymore. I know,

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Speaker 1: But if you are interested in Selena's fashion, you have

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Speaker 1: to visit the Selena Museum in Corpus Christi. That is

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Speaker 1: where the dress is. It lives in the house, along

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Speaker 1: with like so many of her costumes. So if you're

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Speaker 1: ever in Corpus and you're like, what should we do,

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Speaker 1: go to the Selena Museum. Back to the album. Despite

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Speaker 1: the fact that Selena's brother Ab was, in his words,

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Speaker 1: on the verge of a nervous breakdown throughout the entire

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Speaker 1: production process, poor.

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Speaker 2: Guy always felt the pressure a.

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Speaker 1: Motorproib though, stands out as a labor of love from

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Speaker 1: a band at its peak. Ab would come to Selena

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Speaker 1: unsure of his song ideas, and Selena's reassurance would power

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Speaker 1: him through the rest of the process.

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Speaker 2: One of Aby's fondest memories comes from the recording of

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Speaker 2: Nomaka Damas, which Selena had recorded in only four takes.

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Speaker 1: AB now wanted to do a fifth take, but Selena

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Speaker 1: basically said, uh no, I'm going to the mall.

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Speaker 2: Literally, all I want to do is eat pizza at

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Speaker 2: the mall with Selena.

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Speaker 1: But Aviy in her grammy dress and the hair from

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Speaker 1: the video.

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Speaker 2: One hundred Natalie.

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Speaker 1: The lead single for Amor Purvido was the title track. However,

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Speaker 1: AB had fought to get beaty Bitty bomb Bomb to

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Speaker 1: be first in line.

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Speaker 2: I love beatty beatty bomb Bomb, but I think the

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Speaker 2: label made the right move there for sure.

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Speaker 1: But quick tangent about beatty bitty bombomb and why AB

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Speaker 1: loved it so much. So the story goes like this.

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Speaker 1: When the band was on tour, they would vamp on

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Speaker 1: stage during their soundchecks. Selena would make up lyrics and

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Speaker 1: sing kind of like nonsense about whatever she saw on

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Speaker 1: stage that day. She was singing the phrase itty bitty

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Speaker 1: bubbles and you're probably wondering why. Well, apparently there was

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Speaker 1: a bubble machine somewhere on that stage, not surprising if

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Speaker 1: you've ever seen them play live. And somewhere along the way,

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Speaker 1: itty bitty bubbles became beatty beaty bomb bomb.

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Speaker 2: Like you can hear that right totally one hundred I

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Speaker 2: hear I heard it when you said itty bitty bubbles.

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Speaker 1: Point is that song grew completely organically from the fact

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Speaker 1: that this band was totally in sync, like they could

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Speaker 1: take a improvised phrase like antybody bubbles and put it

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Speaker 1: through the Selena and Aby magic and get a hit

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Speaker 1: like beaty Bitty Bomb.

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Speaker 2: Bumb They were at the absolute height of their live performances.

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Speaker 1: Which brings us too.

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Speaker 2: The Astrodome.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen ninety five, on the tour for Almordreddo, Selena

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Speaker 1: played a legendary show at the Houston Astrodome featuring that

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Speaker 1: iconic purple jumpsuit. Wow, this performance happened I think just

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Speaker 1: a couple of months, maybe a month before she tragically

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Speaker 1: passed away. I mean, this is a massive undertaking. I

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Speaker 1: think there were more than sixty thousand people at this concert,

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Speaker 1: and of course I think what people remember most is

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Speaker 1: the iconic purple jumpsuit, which is also at the Selena

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Speaker 1: moussail in Corpus Christie.

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Speaker 2: Love that, Okay, See, that's why we need to go,

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Speaker 2: because I really want to see that material, like because

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Speaker 2: it was like shiny, it had like little crystals or

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Speaker 2: diamonds or was it just kind of like an iridescent

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Speaker 2: to it? You know. Speaking of this performance inspires me

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Speaker 2: to just shake my shoulders because she was just moving

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Speaker 2: up and down.

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Speaker 1: To me, there's such a beauty to this concert, but

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Speaker 1: there's also such a sadness because I think when you

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Speaker 1: go back and watch, and it's been released as a

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Speaker 1: special you can watch it online or stream it. But

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Speaker 1: when you see her performing this, she is at the

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Speaker 1: very top of her game. And when you see her

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Speaker 1: singing AMoD brobido and like by Leastacumbia in the purple

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Speaker 1: jumpsuit in front of sixty thousand screaming devoted fit in

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Speaker 1: her home state, like I'm getting goosebumps, like you can

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Speaker 1: see them. Yes, I'm getting goosebumps because I really think

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Speaker 1: this venue, this location, this night really highlighted the fact

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Speaker 1: that she had it all, like the potential, the star power,

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Speaker 1: the singing chops, like the world was hers for the

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Speaker 1: takeing and tragically we know what happened, just like not

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Speaker 1: too long after this show. So it's almost like I said,

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Speaker 1: it's such a beautiful concert to watch and if you

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Speaker 1: love Selena, please go back and watch it. Like her

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Speaker 1: live is better than any like recording of Selena. But

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Speaker 1: there is such a sadness to me in this show

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Speaker 1: because you see what could have been.

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Speaker 2: As I was watching it, you know, I just was

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Speaker 2: smiling the whole time, Like my cheeks got tired because

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Speaker 2: I was just watching it. I was just kind of

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Speaker 2: like wow. Also just to see her give it her all.

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Speaker 1: This performance is like peak peak Selena. Right. It broke

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Speaker 1: attendance records, and earlier on the tour, Selena had also

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Speaker 1: broken the attendance record at Miami's Gaiotro Festival. It was

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Speaker 1: Selena's biggest tour yet.

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Speaker 2: I'm What for You, Though, spent ninety eight consecutive weeks

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Speaker 2: at the number one on Billboard's Top Latin Albums Chart,

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Speaker 2: ninety seven consecutive weeks at number one in the regional

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Speaker 2: Mexican Album chart, and.

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Speaker 1: At the Tajanno Music Awards, Selena swept, winning every category

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Speaker 1: she was nominated in. The album won three Billboard Latin

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Speaker 1: Music Awards and a slew of other Latin music awards.

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Speaker 2: And yet it got snubbed at the Grammys, receiving only

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Speaker 2: a nomination.

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Speaker 1: Get it together, guys, I feel like the Grammys have

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Speaker 1: been out of sync with what is actually happening in

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Speaker 1: music for decades on decades on decades since then, and

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Speaker 1: they never got it together. You know, here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? Right, Grammy or no Grammy?

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Speaker 1: With Amore prodido, Selena was the biggest Latin American star

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Speaker 1: in the country.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: By the end of nineteen ninety four, it had sold

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Speaker 1: half a million copies with that.

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Speaker 2: Label was finally satisfied. As Selena and the band continued touring,

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Speaker 2: EMI began setting the stage for Selena's English language crossover album.

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Speaker 1: But as we all know, the long awaited crossover would

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Speaker 1: never come. We should say that we're not going to

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Speaker 1: linger too long on this part of the story.

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Speaker 2: Given the choice between remembering how Selena was taken from

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Speaker 2: us and remembering all that she gave us, We're going

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Speaker 2: to take a bit more from Columbi.

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Speaker 1: After all, the show is becoming an icon, not losing

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Speaker 1: an icon. But of course we all know that tragically

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Speaker 1: we did lose one at the hands of one Yolanda Saldivar.

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Speaker 2: Yolanda Saldivar worked as a nurse before taking her niece

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Speaker 2: to say Selena in concert back in ninety one during

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Speaker 2: the Entre Mimundo tour.

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Speaker 1: After seeing Selena in concert, Salivad went from Selena skeptic

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Speaker 1: to Selena fanatic. She was inspired to start the Selena

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Speaker 1: Fan Club in San Antonio.

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Speaker 2: So she called it Abraham a number of times. He says.

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Speaker 2: She left him fifteen messages she would say that she

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Speaker 2: only left.

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Speaker 1: Him three, whatever the number was. Knowing Abraham, some part

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Speaker 1: of him must have appreciated the persistence, so he granted

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Speaker 1: her permission to form the fan club. Selena met Salivad

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Speaker 1: in December of nineteen ninety one, and a friendship formed.

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Speaker 2: For twenty two dollars, fan club members would receive Selena memorabilia,

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Speaker 2: a T shirt, exclusive interviews with the band, fun facts

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Speaker 2: about Selena and the Dinos because remember this was pre

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Speaker 2: internet and concert announcements.

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Speaker 1: By nineteen ninety four, more than eight thousand fans had

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Speaker 1: joined the club. By the way, not me doing the

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Speaker 1: math on like eight thousand times twenty two dollars, you

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Speaker 1: would always a hustler anyway, Salivad quit nursing to run

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Speaker 1: the fan club full time. By then, the whole family

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Speaker 1: had come to trust her, so much so that Selena

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Speaker 1: hired her to manage the new Selena et Cetera boutiques

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Speaker 1: in Corpus Christi and San Antonio.

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Speaker 2: Selena would then go on to sign Saldivar as her

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Speaker 2: registered agent in San Antonio, putting Saldivar in charge of

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Speaker 2: all legal affairs relating to Selena's business ventures.

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Speaker 1: By the way, never do that. There is no lesson learned,

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Speaker 1: lesson learned, never ever. And here's why. Saldivar was authorized

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Speaker 1: to write and cash checks in connection with Selena's business

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Speaker 1: and was given an American Express card for business expenses.

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Speaker 2: And this is where the family started to notice things

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Speaker 2: were off.

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Speaker 1: The Selena, Etcetera company bank accounts couldn't pay the bills

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Speaker 1: due to Saldivar's lavish use of the AMEX card on

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Speaker 1: Lincoln Town cars, expensive restaurants, and cell phones.

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Speaker 2: Okay, two cell phones is kind of sus even today,

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Speaker 2: but in nine, nineteen ninety five, what was that bitch thinking.

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Speaker 1: One was a burner? Clearly Meanwhile, Selena ecceid. Her employees

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Speaker 1: were calling Saldivar two faced, saying that she was nice

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Speaker 1: when Selena was around, but abused them. When no one

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Speaker 1: from the family was there to notice.

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Speaker 2: Saldovar fired anyone she didn't like, and within a year,

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Speaker 2: both boutiques had lost more than half their staff, each

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Speaker 2: going from thirty eight employees to just fourteen.

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Speaker 1: The remaining employees became fed up and raised their concerns

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Speaker 1: to Selena, but Selena trusted Saldivar, so she stayed.

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Speaker 2: Selena's cousin was hired to work with Saldivar and helped

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Speaker 2: extend the business into Mexico. She quit within a week.

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Speaker 1: Saldivar also fought with Selena's fashion designer, Martin Gomez, who

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Speaker 1: accused her of mutilating his pieces and establishing a reign

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Speaker 1: of terror.

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Speaker 2: In retaliation, Saldivar recorded her conversations with Gomez in order

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Speaker 2: to convince Selena to sideline him, and Selena did. Reporters

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Speaker 2: from the Dallas Morning News reported that Saldivar's devotion to

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Speaker 2: Selena quote unquote bordered on obsession.

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Speaker 1: When Selena began consulting a business associate in Monterrey in

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Speaker 1: the hopes of opening a boutique there, Saldivar's intense jealousy

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Speaker 1: led Selena to visit the area incognito, wearing wigs and

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Speaker 1: flying under her husband's surname, all to hide it from Saldivar.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, who needs a friend like that. Finally, in January

385
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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five, the dam Baroque Abraham became inundated with

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Speaker 2: calls and letters from the Selena fan club members who

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Speaker 2: hadn't received their memorabilia despite paying the.

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Speaker 1: Fee and at both Selena, etcetera. Boutiques. Overdue bills began

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Speaker 1: to pile up in the mail.

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Speaker 2: So Abraham went investigating and found that Saldivar had embezzled

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Speaker 2: over sixty thousand dollars from both the fan club and

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Speaker 2: the boutiques.

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Speaker 1: Abraham confronted Saldivar with documentation of the missing funds. He

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Speaker 1: grilled her for an explanation. According to Abraham, she simply

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Speaker 1: stared at him as he questioned her. Eventually, she got up.

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Speaker 2: And left, and Abraham pulled an Abraham for once with

397
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Speaker 2: good reason and forbid Saldivar from contacting Selena.

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Speaker 1: But Selena was reluctant to cut ties with her. She

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Speaker 1: still trusted Saldivar's business acumen, and Saldivar had access to

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Speaker 1: bank records and other documents necessary for taxes.

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Speaker 2: This is where I start yelling at the TV, like, girl,

402
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,680
Speaker 2: just hire a tax guy and get the fuck out.

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Speaker 1: I know this is a lifetime movie playing before our eyes,

404
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: but it's real, you guys, and we all know how

405
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Speaker 1: it ends. It's like so hard to go back to

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Speaker 1: this place. And Selena like she was so sweet and trusting, right,

407
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Speaker 1: she kept Saldivar in her orbit. Despite all of these

408
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: red flags, Saldivar then bought a pistol and repeatedly attempted

409
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Speaker 1: to lure Selena into a hotel room alone. On March

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Speaker 1: thirty first, nineteen ninety five, Saldivar succeeded.

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Speaker 2: That morning, Selena went to Saldivar's motel room to retrieve

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Speaker 2: more stolen goods and bank records from her, and, according

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Speaker 2: to a boutique employee who had spoken to her to

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Speaker 2: fire Saldivar.

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Speaker 1: At the motel, guests heard an argument, then a gunshot.

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Speaker 1: Selena had been shot in the back as she attempted

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Speaker 1: to flee. She managed to run to the lobby and

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Speaker 1: named Saldivar as her assailant, but there she collapsed.

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Speaker 2: Paramedics attempted to revive her for over an hour, but

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Speaker 2: it was no use. Selena was gone.

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Speaker 1: The day after Selena's murder, thousands of grieving fans showed

422
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,600
Speaker 1: up for a candlelight vigil. Then the family displayed her

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Speaker 1: casket at the Bayfront Auditorium. An hour before the viewing,

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Speaker 1: a rumor circulated that the casket was empty, so the

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Speaker 1: family decided to go open casket. Between thirty and forty

426
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Speaker 1: thousand fans viewed Selena's remains, while seventy eight thousand signed

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Speaker 1: a book of condolences. The following day, she was buried

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Speaker 1: at Seaside Memorial Park in Corpus Christi, Texas.

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Speaker 2: We feel her loss so deeply as fans, it's almost

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Speaker 2: easy to forget how devastating it must have been for

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Speaker 2: the family. Apart from losing their artistic center of gravity,

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Speaker 2: they lost a sister, a daughter, a wife.

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Speaker 1: Years later, in an oral history of Selena's life an

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Speaker 1: Untimely Death in Texas Monthly, Suzette Keithania would say, I

435
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: used to get out all my photos and open up

436
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: my sister's traveling makeup case so I could smell her.

437
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,480
Speaker 1: I took over the boutiques because I knew Selena would

438
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,720
Speaker 1: have wanted to keep them going. But it was traumatic

439
00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: all day. Every day people came into the store to

440
00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,000
Speaker 1: tell me how much they loved my sister, and sometimes

441
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:41,000
Speaker 1: I had to go into the back and just cry

442
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: and cry. To this day, my mother doesn't talk publicly

443
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 1: about what happened. Chris kind of shut down. He left

444
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,080
Speaker 1: everything in the house exactly as it was the day

445
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: she died. Dad consumed himself.

446
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 2: With work, In the same article, Aby would say that

447
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:00,080
Speaker 2: nothing would ever be the same as sharing the stage

448
00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:04,040
Speaker 2: with his sister. Quote when we performed in Central America,

449
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:06,960
Speaker 2: there were times when the emotion was so overwhelming that

450
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,280
Speaker 2: I would start to cry. I would turn away from

451
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: the crowd and act like something was wrong with the

452
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 2: amplifier until I gathered myself. You have to understand, she

453
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: was generating electricity, and I was part of that conductor.

454
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 2: I was never able to recreate that high again. Meanwhile,

455
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,520
Speaker 2: according to one reporter, Abraham went on autopilot in the

456
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: wake of Selena's death, wrangling reporters and handling funeral arrangements.

457
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 1: But Selena's mother Marcella would tell Susette, your father cries

458
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: in the shower because he doesn't want me to know

459
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: he's crying. He thinks I can't hear him, but I can.

460
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,640
Speaker 2: For all that there is to say about Abraham, and

461
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 2: we've said plenty, you got to feel for him here.

462
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 1: Absolutely. It's sometimes hard to distinguish between Abraham the dad

463
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 1: and Abraham the businessman, But if you think of them

464
00:25:55,119 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: as one and the same, it's a little easier to

465
00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: wrap your head around why he was as fiercely protective

466
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: as he was over the band and over Selena in particular.

467
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 2: A parent's worst nightmare is losing their kids. A business

468
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 2: owner's worst nightmare is losing the business. Both of these

469
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,680
Speaker 2: things happened, and like, maybe we feel a little ikey

470
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 2: about the second part, but I'm not sure that makes

471
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:18,840
Speaker 2: his grief any less real.

472
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 1: And it all happened at the hands of someone Abraham

473
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 1: and Selena were willing to trust, as opposed to someone

474
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: Abraham was skeptical towards right away, like Chris.

475
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 2: For example, Blame tends to follow death. In the best cases,

476
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 2: you end up blaming yourself for a loved one's passing.

477
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,199
Speaker 1: But in a lot of cases, blame gets passed around,

478
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,480
Speaker 1: especially in a death as traumatic as this one. Bad

479
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: blood still remains between Abraham and Chris. Meanwhile, some fans

480
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 1: accuse Abraham of milking his daughter's memory decades after her passing,

481
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,479
Speaker 1: while others her accusations at Chris.

482
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 2: Grief has this horrible dark power when it's attached to tragedy,

483
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,399
Speaker 2: like the killer went to jail, and yet we still

484
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 2: need an answer for the injustice.

485
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,879
Speaker 1: And if you ever spent any time going through the

486
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 1: comments on YouTube for old Selena videos, you see a

487
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: lot of people imagining what could have.

488
00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 2: Been Selena playing at the Super Bowl halftime show, Selena

489
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 2: on the collab with the new Hot Artist.

490
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 1: And you'll also see plenty of arguments on how Selena

491
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: is remembered, Selena as a commodity, Selena as an untouchable idol.

492
00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,800
Speaker 2: Not to mention arguments over where Selena would stand today

493
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:35,800
Speaker 2: on certain political issues, We'll say as a Mexican American

494
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 2: woman with a religious upbringing.

495
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: Which, without getting into it, suffice it to say, we

496
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: can never really know who Selena would have become if

497
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,959
Speaker 1: she were still with us, Like would she be a mom,

498
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: Like would she be mentoring like other female artists. And so,

499
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 1: instead of lamenting or arguing over what she could have

500
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: given us, the best thing that we can do is

501
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 1: just remember what she did give us.

502
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: After Selena's death, Amoor Probrido went platinum multiple times over,

503
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 2: as did her other albums over successive years.

504
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,040
Speaker 1: Then came the release of Dreaming of You the summer

505
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 1: after We Said Goodbye. In the wake of the Amor

506
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,639
Speaker 1: Probido tour and amid all the turmoil surrounding her boutiques,

507
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: Selena had been recording tracks for her long awaited English crossover.

508
00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,639
Speaker 2: The label had tapped Grammy winning songwriters for Selena to

509
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 2: collaborate with. Dreaming of You includes that small handful of collaborations,

510
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: including the title track and I Could Fall in Love.

511
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: Dreaming of You debuted at the top of the Billboard

512
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 1: two hundred, netting the second largest release for an album

513
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,720
Speaker 1: that year besides Michael Jackson. It was also the second

514
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 1: largest first week sales for a female musician, behind Janet Jackson.

515
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,800
Speaker 2: Like literally going toe to toe with the Jacksons, this

516
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 2: was a crossover she dreamed about, and she never got

517
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 2: to see it.

518
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 1: By December, Dreaming of You had gone double platinum at

519
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: two million copies. The album introduced millions to Selena and

520
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,200
Speaker 1: continues to do so while giving both newcomers and devoted

521
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:34,440
Speaker 1: fans a tantalizing taste of what could have been. Okay,

522
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: We kicked off talking about Selena by listing all the

523
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: different ways people have connected to her music.

524
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 2: The og fans, the nineties kids who learned her story

525
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 2: from the movie, and the little zoomers who love to

526
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 2: cosplay Selena.

527
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,440
Speaker 1: Selena's legacy was cut short. There's like no if ands

528
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: or buts about it. But among the millions of listeners

529
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 1: who fell in love with her is a treasure trove

530
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: of artists caring her legacy forward.

531
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 2: So what better way to celebrate Selena than by celebrating

532
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: those artists keeping her alive in their own music Exactly.

533
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: Someone that I think always gets a lot of accolades

534
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: for this but does it in her own very unique

535
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:20,680
Speaker 1: way is Destiny Neveda. Now, if you guys have not

536
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: heard of her, she is a Latin Grammy nominee. She's

537
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 1: a two time the Hanno Music Award singer. And I

538
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: think her voice is very like traditional te Hanne like,

539
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: it's very Selena. The sound is spot on, like it's

540
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: exactly what you expect it to be.

541
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,440
Speaker 2: You know, I agree with you. I feel like it is.

542
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: And you know how Selena has a snarling to it,

543
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,680
Speaker 2: she kind of doesn't do that so much. I think

544
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: it's a little bit more commercial hers Destiny. It's definitely

545
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: a sound that is a little bit easier to hear

546
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 2: because it's not like tumble and rumble. Do you know

547
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 2: what I mean?

548
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: I do I totally get that. I mean, I think,

549
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, for Destiny, I would say I mean, she's

550
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: got like super strong ties aside from just the sound. Like, yes,

551
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:09,440
Speaker 1: Tusine's mom was friends with Selena and like they used

552
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: to play music with her. So like she's a baby

553
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: and obviously she's grown up with music in her family,

554
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: but they actually have like actual connections to that family,

555
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 1: both from Texas Latinas, you know what I mean. I

556
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: feel like they both really are so similar in the

557
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: way that they use music to connect to their fans.

558
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 2: You know, there's this new there's a singer out here.

559
00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: Her name is Snow the Product. And the reason I

560
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: wanted to look her up and all this stuff is

561
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: because she has Selena tattoos and mentioned Selena eating pizza

562
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: in one of her songs called bet that I Will.

563
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,120
Speaker 2: I don't want to compare her to Cardi B. Because

564
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,239
Speaker 2: I mean, she is Mexican and she kind of has

565
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 2: a little bit of a Chola voice in a way

566
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 2: that you know how Cardi B has kind of like

567
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 2: an East Coast Yes, so her rap is really cool.

568
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: It's you got to You've really got to listen to.

569
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 2: Her name is Snow the Product.

570
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: I'm adding her to my list. Another one that I

571
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,719
Speaker 1: think people always call out to me is Estevie, who

572
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: was also like a new person for me because she's

573
00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: very like gen Z. But if you like Cumbia, like

574
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: she is the Cumbia queen.

575
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 2: She is. But I feel like she kind of sings

576
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 2: it in a very kind of softer way, you know,

577
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 2: very like modern. I feel like it's like a little

578
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 2: like her voice is a little dreamier instead of being

579
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 2: so commercial.

580
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:31,760
Speaker 1: I just think she's having such a moment because I

581
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: think you're obviously with you know, fesl Pluma, You're seeing

582
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: like this massive explosion and almost like renaissance for very

583
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 1: traditional regional Mexican music. So a lot of these artists

584
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: are kind of pushing these regional styles to the forefront,

585
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 1: whereas Selena did that. She already did that in the nineties, right,

586
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: but now we're seeing it come back. So it is

587
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: having very much a renaissance. Because I will say that

588
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: for my friends that are not Latino, they don't have

589
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 1: the same experience of Selena music that I do because

590
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: they weren't listening to the Spanish like they weren't listening

591
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: to Amorrio at their house. They were listening to like

592
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: Dreaming of You and I could fall in love which

593
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: is a beautiful way to step into Selena's voice and

594
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:19,520
Speaker 1: her sound. But these artists like Stevie and Destiny and

595
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: the one you mentioned snow the product. They are allowing

596
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,120
Speaker 1: this regional Mexican music to touch all ears, not just

597
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,920
Speaker 1: Latino ears, and so that in itself is an incredible

598
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:34,440
Speaker 1: expansion of our music and our culture, which I am

599
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:38,480
Speaker 1: so here for. I also think what's amazing is that

600
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: one of the women leading the way here is also

601
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: Carol g I mean like she just won like all

602
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: of the Grammys, not Latin Grammys, people real Grammy, so

603
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 1: they got their shit together. Thank you Grammys. Finally, but

604
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: she covered Gomonla floor at the Astrodaut. And then you

605
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 1: have one of my favorite country artists, Casey Musgraves.

606
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 2: I knew you were going to bring Yes.

607
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,959
Speaker 1: I love Casey Muskrats her new album is you Guys Anyway?

608
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: Casey saying it during like Christmas karaoke. So again, Selena

609
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 1: has touched so many of these like younger female artists

610
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,319
Speaker 1: in a way that we can't even began to sum

611
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 1: up in one short episode, right, and we could go

612
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 1: on and on and on and on and do like

613
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: multiple episodes.

614
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 2: Two hours right, this.

615
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,359
Speaker 1: Is a five hour Becoming an Icon. But I think

616
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: the best way that you and I can wrap up

617
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 1: this show, this episode of our the Hannu Icon, is

618
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:50,160
Speaker 1: to do a little gomlay.

619
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 2: Is this I kind of don't know the other part

620
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: to that, I'm gonna get.

621
00:34:55,120 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: Sued anyway, all right, guys, Well, next time on Becoming

622
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 1: an Icon on the Spirit of the Sixties survives in

623
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: Carlos Santana. Becoming an Icon is presented by Sonoro and

624
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: Iheart's Michael Duda podcast Network. Listen to Becoming an Icon

625
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:22,359
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you get

626
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: your podcast