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Speaker 1: Don't every day a week ago clicks up the Breakfast Club.

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Speaker 2: You don't finish for y'all done morning.

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Speaker 3: Everybody is dj en Vy Jess Hilarious, Charlamagne the gud

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Speaker 3: We are the Breakfast Club. We got a special guest

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Speaker 3: in the building. Yes, indeed, Shakas and welcome back, Brotherling.

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Speaker 4: I'm blessed. I'm blessed. Thank y'all so much for having

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Speaker 4: me back. Man.

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Speaker 1: Shaka just put out an amazing new body of work, Man,

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Speaker 1: a new book, How to Be Free, a proving guid

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Speaker 1: escaping life's hidden prisons.

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Speaker 2: Man, what is a hidden prison?

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Speaker 5: It's the things that you don't see that standing away

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Speaker 5: of you living the best life for yourself.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: So, when I've thought about this, this big idea and

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Speaker 5: created this kind of blueprint to help people live the

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Speaker 5: life that they're fully capable of, the fully deserving of,

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Speaker 5: I recognize that we all had these hidden prisons, you know,

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Speaker 5: self doubt, negative self talk. You know, that's one of

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Speaker 5: the big things that kind of standing away. But there's

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Speaker 5: also things like anger, grief, shame, things from our childhood

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Speaker 5: that really doesn't allow us to show up fully authentically

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Speaker 5: in our full potential.

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Speaker 6: You know, I wanted to.

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Speaker 3: I know you got the book out, but there's a

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Speaker 3: lot that's been going on, and I figured you would

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Speaker 3: be the right person to ask some questions about so

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Speaker 3: everything going on in Atlanta.

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Speaker 6: It seems like people, I wouldn't.

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Speaker 3: Say, glorify the street, right, glorify things that happen in

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Speaker 3: the street. And I feel like sometimes people don't know

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Speaker 3: how to get out of it. Right, you see what

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Speaker 3: happened to Atlanta. Everybody's a niche, this person's a rat.

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Speaker 3: When do you get to an age or what do

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Speaker 3: you tell those young as it says, hey, it's not

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Speaker 3: worth it.

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Speaker 6: We see what's happening. But it seems like they don't

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Speaker 6: learn their lessons.

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Speaker 3: So what do you tell one of those little young

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Speaker 3: those little young brothers out there.

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Speaker 2: Because that's a prison that's not hidden.

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Speaker 5: But I think one of the things with our culture,

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Speaker 5: specifically like hip hop culture, is we've kind of intermingled

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Speaker 5: the idea that these guys are really street guys and

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Speaker 5: really they artists. They're kids who are trying to figure

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Speaker 5: out how to make money using the talent but also

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Speaker 5: using the stories from a background that society has sold

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Speaker 5: us on as being like the way to show up

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Speaker 5: in world, right, like the only way we can make it.

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Speaker 5: And what I tell the young people is that it's

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Speaker 5: made way more money in legitimate enterprise. And like I

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Speaker 5: was pretty decent with street sales, but I can tell

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Speaker 5: you make way more money in legitimate enterprise. And the

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Speaker 5: accessibility to it now is something we see. I mean,

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Speaker 5: like you can take a phone and build a whole career, right,

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Speaker 5: And so I think we have to separate like what's

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Speaker 5: really the streets from like what's music culture and these

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Speaker 5: kids pretending to be street guys, because it's kind of

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Speaker 5: ridiculous if you think about it. If you're making all

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Speaker 5: this money in music, then why are you going backwards?

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Speaker 5: Because it's not many guys that's really financially successful coming

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Speaker 5: for the streets, Like and I mean, you talk to

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Speaker 5: any of the guys that actually are you know, recognized

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Speaker 5: from being in that environment, they tell you most guys

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Speaker 5: don't make real money in the streets. Most guys are

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Speaker 5: basically minimum wage.

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Speaker 4: You know, workers.

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Speaker 5: So if you're making all this legitimate money in music,

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Speaker 5: why would you kind of try to intermingle that with

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Speaker 5: this identity that's not real?

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Speaker 4: Man?

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Speaker 1: That's a great point and what do you say to

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Speaker 1: people who act like the screeches in industry?

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Speaker 2: And what I mean by that is.

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Speaker 1: You'll have folks that will say things to you like, well,

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Speaker 1: who determines what's legal and illegal?

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Speaker 2: Or who determines what's right and what's wrong.

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Speaker 1: Because they'll say, there's people out here that make money

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Speaker 1: selling alcohol.

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Speaker 2: There's people that out.

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Speaker 1: Here that's making money selling marijuana. Now I'm like, that's

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Speaker 1: not the same, Like the screech is not a real industry.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, no, I mean it's a kind of dispersed industry. Right,

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Speaker 5: It's like anything goes, but you when you look at

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Speaker 5: how you know, for example, the marijuana industry, right, how

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Speaker 5: that's evolved to become legitimate enterprise. Right, Like that's where

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Speaker 5: we should be, folks, And how do we change laws

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Speaker 5: and policies to work for our advantage insteady being victimized

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Speaker 5: by these policies and then somebody else reaps all the benefits.

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Speaker 5: And so you know, I'm always telling telling you know,

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Speaker 5: the young people that I mentor is really think about

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Speaker 5: how do you get ownership and whatever it is you're

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Speaker 5: interested in. Like that's I've been in Silicon Valley for

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Speaker 5: three years, which actually is one of the inspirations for

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Speaker 5: right now this book, because I work with people that's

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Speaker 5: like ultra wealthy, and yet I see them have kind

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Speaker 5: of like some of the same prisons that you know,

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Speaker 5: I see.

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Speaker 4: People in a neighborhood.

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Speaker 5: I've seen people who is actually in real prison have

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Speaker 5: that same kind of mental blocks that doesn't allow them

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Speaker 5: to show up authentically. Even though it looks like they

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Speaker 5: got all the travelers of success, they're still not happy

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Speaker 5: and fulfilled. So that's to me, it's more like, how

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Speaker 5: are you getting equity, but also how are you creating

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Speaker 5: like the mental equity to really live a life that you.

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Speaker 4: Want to live.

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Speaker 3: I got one more question with that. Is there a

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Speaker 3: cold when it comes to the street in your opinion,

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Speaker 3: But we.

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Speaker 6: Had a conversation about cold. Is there a cold? Is

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Speaker 6: there a cold that you're supposed to follow or is

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Speaker 6: it just.

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Speaker 3: Is it legal activity, you know, I mean, or is

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Speaker 3: there something that guidelines that should be followed.

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Speaker 5: I mean, I grew up in the era of like

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Speaker 5: crack cocaine, so I can't speak to with there's codes.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 5: I haven't been in the streets in like thirty some years,

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Speaker 5: and I'm fifty three years old.

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Speaker 4: Man, successful business man.

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Speaker 5: I'm an entrepreneur, married, I got a kid, I got investments.

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Speaker 5: But I do you know, I mean, I still do

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Speaker 5: a lot of work with with people in prison and

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Speaker 5: in the neighborhoods, and you know, I kind of know that.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's the codes are really your personal values, right,

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Speaker 5: everybody can say that they're real and to them handcuffs

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Speaker 5: going up to you in that terrogation room, and you're

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Speaker 5: really facing a life sentence. And that's what that's what

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Speaker 5: we don't talk about, is how many different ways you

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Speaker 5: can end up serving life without actually even really doing

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Speaker 5: anything meaningful, just by associations, right, you know, when you're

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Speaker 5: talking about those rico charges, a lot of these guys

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Speaker 5: not making real money. They just around and then you

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Speaker 5: get swooped up and the way the farest players, they

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Speaker 5: gonna load up everything they could charge you with and

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Speaker 5: then most likely you'll plead out, which is like ninety

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Speaker 5: five percent of people do.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I don't.

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Speaker 5: I stay out the streets and I'm out here just

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Speaker 5: being a grown mary man.

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Speaker 3: No, we try to tell the youngers that to stay

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Speaker 3: out the streets absolutely in a minute, it ain't worth it,

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Speaker 3: and any little bit of money you were gonna make,

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Speaker 3: or any little bit of clouds that you're gonna make,

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Speaker 3: ain't like worth the ten life sentences, two lifesent This

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Speaker 3: is a one life sentence, you know.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it ain't worth missing your family, life, your kids.

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Speaker 6: It ain't worth it.

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Speaker 4: Man.

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Speaker 5: You know, the nineteen years in prison that I serve,

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Speaker 5: I've watched life go by. You know, I came home,

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Speaker 5: my younger siblings were adults. My nephews and nieces didn't

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Speaker 5: even know me, you know, they had to get to

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Speaker 5: know me. And so you can't you can't replace those years.

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Speaker 5: You know, there's nothing you can do to get that

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Speaker 5: time back. And this is what I can tell you

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Speaker 5: for sure about about prison. Life is the toughest break

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Speaker 5: under those circumstances. Everybody when they when they hit that

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Speaker 5: pillar at night, they're wishing that they would have made

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Speaker 5: different life choices, you know what I mean. So I

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Speaker 5: wouldn't wish that on anybody, and I try to discourage guys.

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Speaker 5: I think one of the things I will say that

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Speaker 5: I'm proud of that I'm starting to see in our

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Speaker 5: culture it's more interest being you know, placed on actually

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Speaker 5: the legitimate financial investments you know, I think about what

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Speaker 5: the young brother's doing on your leisure. You know, I

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Speaker 5: think about Wallow and some of the brothers I've been

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Speaker 5: able to interact with, and I'm like, Yo, that's that's

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Speaker 5: a move right there, because it's still cool at the

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Speaker 5: end of the day. If it's really about making money.

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Speaker 5: Investments is a way to make make a lot of money,

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Speaker 5: you know, And that's the freedom that I even talk

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Speaker 5: about in the book.

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Speaker 4: It's like financial freedom.

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Speaker 5: You know, how are you taking advantage of these opportunities

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Speaker 5: that's really right in front of you? And you know,

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Speaker 5: my philosophy is simple. I came from nineteen years in prison,

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Speaker 5: seven years in solitary confinement, to becoming really, really successful,

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Speaker 5: not only as an author but also as an investor.

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Speaker 5: So my philosophy is like, if I can do it

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Speaker 5: coming from those circumstances, what excuse you got?

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Speaker 4: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 5: So I tell my mentees, you got to take every

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Speaker 5: excuse off the table because I've done all the hard

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Speaker 5: work for you. And that's you know, That's what I've

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Speaker 5: done in this book is like, here's a framework and

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Speaker 5: a blueprint for you to literally live the freeest life possible.

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Speaker 1: One of the biggest hitting prisoners I see is people,

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Speaker 1: you know, being defined by their past mistakes, are not

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Speaker 1: knowing how to let go of their past mistakes. So

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Speaker 1: how do you keep from being defined by your past

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Speaker 1: mistakes when the system is sometimes even your own people

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Speaker 1: want to keep you stuck there?

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Speaker 4: Man, I stay out the comments. It's brutal out there. Man.

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Speaker 5: No, but but but really it's a lot of self

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Speaker 5: affirming care right. It's like negative self talk is one

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Speaker 5: of the biggest self imposed prisons I've found where even

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Speaker 5: successful people are doubting themselves or you know, dealing with

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Speaker 5: imposter syndrome, like why am I in this room?

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Speaker 4: Do I really belong in this room?

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Speaker 5: And so for me, you know, the way that I've

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Speaker 5: kind of mapped my life out is really through writing

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Speaker 5: it down Like journalists, one of the greatest hacks in

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Speaker 5: life is like when you see it, you can be

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Speaker 5: super clear on Hey, here's who I actually am, not

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Speaker 5: who they say I am. I get judged all the time,

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Speaker 5: like why are you able to do some of these things?

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Speaker 5: You know, you went to pro went to prison for

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Speaker 5: a homicide. You know, it's one of the most regrettable

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Speaker 5: acts in my life, and It's something I could never undo,

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Speaker 5: which is why I'm so conscious about talking to the

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Speaker 5: young guys about the decisions that they make. And I've

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Speaker 5: also lived fifteen years of freedom where I've been able

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Speaker 5: to create, you know, a lot of value for community

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Speaker 5: that I mean, I've invested in the community in the

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Speaker 5: real way, and so I've done way more good than

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Speaker 5: I've done bad. But the reality is people are going

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Speaker 5: to bring that up. You know, they're gonna judge you

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Speaker 5: for that. And so that's why that self talk is

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Speaker 5: so important, and journaling and really writing it down and

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Speaker 5: getting super clear about who you are really is what

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Speaker 5: makes the world of difference.

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Speaker 6: Let me ask you a questions. What's free to you?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 3: And the reason I asked that is some people look

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Speaker 3: at free as financial freedom. One of my biggest things

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Speaker 3: for myself was making sure my kids were free. And

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Speaker 3: when I mean free, I mean this life is short.

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Speaker 6: Try to set them up.

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Speaker 3: Where they can do what they want to do just

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Speaker 3: to be happy. Right, if my daughter wanted to do

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Speaker 3: here for the rest of my life, what ever made

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Speaker 3: her happy? It ain't about the mansions, the cause and

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Speaker 3: all that that we think that some people idolize.

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Speaker 6: Some people don't. But what's free to you? Because I

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Speaker 6: always felt just living a free life and being happy

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Speaker 6: is free to me.

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Speaker 5: Yes, it's really having complete agency and autonomy over my

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Speaker 5: time and how I spend it and who I spend

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Speaker 5: it with, and being able to wake up and every

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Speaker 5: day and say that I'm intentional about the where I

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Speaker 5: live my life, that I'm unburding by anything that does

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Speaker 5: not coincide with my core values.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: And so you know, I'm an artist, so I want

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Speaker 5: to wake up and be able to create, you know,

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Speaker 5: I want to be able to spend time with people

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Speaker 5: that I actually value and care about in a meaningful way.

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Speaker 5: And like being able to create space for myself and

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Speaker 5: create a lifestyle that really allows me to have that agency.

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Speaker 5: That's like the ultimate freedom.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: But then I you know, I drilled down into like

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Speaker 5: what is financial freedom? You know, that's really recognizing that

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Speaker 5: my money actually works for me instead of me working

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Speaker 5: for money. What does freedom look like with love?

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Speaker 4: Right?

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Speaker 5: Is being able to show up authentically with my family,

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Speaker 5: being vulnerable, being open, you know, not playing this kind

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Speaker 5: of put this mask on as a dad or as

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Speaker 5: a husband, and being able to show up in that

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Speaker 5: way man, it's the most incredible sense of freedom. And

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Speaker 5: then you know the socially, you know, one of the

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Speaker 5: things that this will be the first place that I

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Speaker 5: shared this on because it was share. Recently, Oprah talked

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Speaker 5: about me putting in for my partner and she asked

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Speaker 5: me what would mean if I got my partner, and

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Speaker 5: I said, it the mean that I'm you know, now

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Speaker 5: I'm back included in the tribe, because there are barriers

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Speaker 5: when you have a felony on your life, you know,

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Speaker 5: and it's been you know, you know, I caught this

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Speaker 5: felony in nineteen ninety one and it still impacts my life,

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Speaker 5: my wife's life, my son's life, and unfortunately, we just

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Speaker 5: learned that they didn't give me that pardon, and so

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Speaker 5: I had to reimagine, like what this freedom looked like

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Speaker 5: to be unburdened by a system. And really what it

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Speaker 5: looks like to me is I was a presidential party. Well,

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Speaker 5: it wouldn't have been president and governor because I was.

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Speaker 5: My case was state so Whittmer in Michigan, and they

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Speaker 5: shot it down at the fifteen years and I'm talking

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Speaker 5: about come on, yeah, what I've received in fifteen years

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Speaker 5: is like unparalleled for somebody who was formally incarcerated. But

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Speaker 5: it was one of those moments, right, Well, I had

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Speaker 5: to go back to my own book, the own my

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Speaker 5: own framework of like, Okay, how do you navigate that disappointment,

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Speaker 5: you know, without it spiraling? Right, Because it's infuriating when

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Speaker 5: you think about, I've done all this work in the

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Speaker 5: world and I'm still told that it's not enough, you

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Speaker 5: know what I mean, how does.

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Speaker 6: That make you feel?

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Speaker 3: Because you you know, not that it's it's you know

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Speaker 3: that you deserve it or you earn it, but you

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Speaker 3: did so much for your city, right, You've changed, You've

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Speaker 3: talked about your change, you accepted what happened, like you've

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Speaker 3: been a man and said, you know, this is what

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Speaker 3: it was.

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Speaker 6: But you've made it your life.

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Speaker 3: To make sure that you've changed and you give back

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Speaker 3: and that for them to turn you down, what does

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Speaker 3: that do to you?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? I mean it was it was a moment.

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Speaker 5: Man.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 5: I remember my wife and I we were you know,

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Speaker 5: she had brought the mail in and she handed me

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Speaker 5: the mail and you know, we both kind of like excited,

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Speaker 5: like all right, well what's going to happen?

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Speaker 4: Right? And I open up and it was just like

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Speaker 4: the way they shot me down.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't even no clarity as to why, right, it

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Speaker 5: was just like, you've been denied reapplying two years. And

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Speaker 5: in my man, I'm like, Okay, what do I What

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Speaker 5: do I accomplish in two years that I haven't accomplished

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Speaker 5: in fifteen?

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Speaker 4: Right? And so it's that thing of like that.

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Speaker 5: That reminder that comes back over and over You're not

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Speaker 5: worthy to be fully included. And so what I what

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Speaker 5: I what I did is I actually literally went to

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Speaker 5: the playbook that I've outlined in How to Be Free,

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Speaker 5: and I went back in our journal. I was like,

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Speaker 5: how do I really feel about this? What does this

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Speaker 5: really mean for my life? And what is my plan

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Speaker 5: moving forward? Because initially I was like, man, I'm not

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Speaker 5: a plan back in two years? Like why would I?

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Speaker 5: Why would I do that? I've accomplished so much. I mean,

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Speaker 5: I'm been Grammy nominated album with NAS, Emmy winning film

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Speaker 5: with Able to Verney, New York Times Bestseller fellow at

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Speaker 5: m I T Fellow at Virginia Tech Kellogg Like you name.

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Speaker 4: It your community work, community work, you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: And so I'm like, what more? What more? Do they

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Speaker 4: want from me?

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Speaker 5: And it was like through that process of writeing and down,

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Speaker 5: it was like, you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna show up in the spirit of gratitude for

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Speaker 5: all of it.

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Speaker 6: Have you talked to the government.

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Speaker 4: Have y'all spoke at all?

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Speaker 5: I've never spoke to the governor because you go, it

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Speaker 5: goes through a whole parole, board, part and board. I

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Speaker 5: spoke to the lieutenant government. I actually know lieutenant governor.

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Speaker 2: And then he running and he's running for governor.

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Speaker 4: He's probably running for governor.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, Gilgris, Yeah, and so you know, it's it's

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Speaker 5: it's one of those things where you just kind of

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Speaker 5: go back to like what is my role in this right?

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Speaker 5: And for me, it's coming back to a spirit of gratitude.

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Speaker 5: My life is blessed. I'm blessed. Even the things that

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Speaker 5: challenged me betters me. And so that's how I so

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Speaker 5: it's approach it.

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Speaker 1: You know, we pay attention to stuff like that Governor

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Speaker 1: Shapiro's with Governor joshapairoll he pardon Wallow, Yeah, you know

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Speaker 1: in Pennsylvania. So you know, Governor, your women, I hope

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Speaker 1: you know, attention to stuff.

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Speaker 4: Like that that's real.

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Speaker 1: You know one of the other hidden prisons man that well,

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Speaker 1: I want to ask you about hitting prisons. Can freedom

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Speaker 1: be obtained if you are physically free, but you're still

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Speaker 1: battling things within your stuff? That's why I love that

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Speaker 1: you did this guide to being a hitten prison, because

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Speaker 1: I wonder that when you're you're out physically, yeah, but.

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Speaker 2: Can it truly be attained if you still battling things

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Speaker 2: within here?

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Speaker 5: Here's one of the things that I shared in the

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Speaker 5: book that I think blew people mind is that I

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Speaker 5: realized I was incarcerated before I was having a prison

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Speaker 5: cell like. Mentally, I brought into a narrative that my

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Speaker 5: life can only have two outcomes dead or on prison

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Speaker 5: before twenty one.

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Speaker 4: And I ended up living that narrative.

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Speaker 5: But I was also free before they ever let me out,

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Speaker 5: because I took the time to really start to do

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Speaker 5: the hard work right of asking that question, how did

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Speaker 5: I end up here?

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Speaker 4: Right? Like?

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Speaker 5: How did I end up serving out my most promising

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Speaker 5: years in a sale Like? I wanted to be a

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Speaker 5: doctor and an artist and I ended up getting caught

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Speaker 5: up in the street coach when I was fourteen years

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Speaker 5: old and dealt with all the things that came with that.

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Speaker 5: And so when I was actually in physical prison, I

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Speaker 5: started to kind of write my way out, journaling I

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Speaker 5: got free before they ever let me out. And so

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Speaker 5: the reason I wrote this book is working in Silicon

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Speaker 5: Valley and working in the community, I started to see

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Speaker 5: a consistent trend of people really who were like stuck.

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Speaker 4: You know. Sometime it was grief.

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Speaker 5: Sometimes they couldn't get over the loss of a job,

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Speaker 5: the loss of a loved one.

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Speaker 4: Sometimes it was shame.

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Speaker 5: You know, Silicon Valley is a very aggressive environment, right,

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Speaker 5: It's like it's hard. You got to be a real

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Speaker 5: hustler to survive in that environment. And I would see

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Speaker 5: people just get broken from being shamed when they didn't

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Speaker 5: execute on the project. And so I started to see

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Speaker 5: these consistent patterns anger, the inability to forgive, which is

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Speaker 5: something that I think really is a hidden prison for

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Speaker 5: a lot of people, where you get stuck and this

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Speaker 5: thing of like I'm going to hold on to like

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Speaker 5: not forgiveness person. Meanwhile that person out somewhere frolicking, and

401
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Speaker 5: you get up upset every time you think of it,

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Speaker 5: and you just can't move on with your life. And

403
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Speaker 5: then there's also like these well intended prisons, right, helicopter parenting.

404
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Speaker 5: Have you see that parent who's just like, I'm gonna

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Speaker 5: do all the things for my child. I'm a Hoffer

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Speaker 5: over room. And then your child doesn't build up resilience,

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Speaker 5: They don't build up any agency, they don't build up

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Speaker 5: any capabilities.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 5: And even in love life, right, it's like we broke up,

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Speaker 5: but we're going to remain friends. And then you wonder

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Speaker 5: why you can never find a husband or a wife

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Speaker 5: because you're trapped in these old narratives. And so it's

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Speaker 5: a lot of people that's out here that's stuck in

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Speaker 5: the old story.

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Speaker 3: Talk about the forgiveness freedom, right, that was a tough

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Speaker 3: one for me for a long time.

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Speaker 6: Right, I held things right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know I was.

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Speaker 3: I was talking to somebody recently, and then I didn't

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Speaker 3: hold them for forgiveness or non forgiveness. I held them

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Speaker 3: for revenge, right, because I felt like I needed that

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Speaker 3: look back.

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Speaker 6: I mean I need that for two right.

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Speaker 3: So that's one of the most difficult for people. So,

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Speaker 3: so break that down. As far as the forgiveness freedom.

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Speaker 4: That's a great one.

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Speaker 5: So interesting enough, a couple of years ago I got

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Speaker 5: a letter from the guy who shot me when I

430
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Speaker 5: was seventeen years old. This exchanged our beef. It was,

431
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Speaker 5: you know, thirty seconds right put up on the block.

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Speaker 5: We had words exchange.

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Speaker 4: He shot me.

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Speaker 5: I never saw this guy's face, shot me three times.

435
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Speaker 5: I get this letter and he's like, yo, I'm the

436
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Speaker 5: guy who shot you. I apologized at the time. He's

437
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Speaker 5: still me in prison right now. I got mad respecting there.

438
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Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, Like I can literally call

439
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Speaker 5: and shoot somebody. Somebody on their books, take care of dude.

440
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Speaker 5: I felt that old anger come up for hot second,

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Speaker 5: for a hot second, and I literally said, well, what

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Speaker 5: do you preach? You preach that people are worthy of

443
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,960
Speaker 5: second chances, Like you got to be a man of

444
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,000
Speaker 5: your word. You gotta honor that right. And so I

445
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:21,679
Speaker 5: had to sit with that, and I realized that the

446
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 5: anger was rooted and I never saw.

447
00:18:23,359 --> 00:18:25,720
Speaker 4: This guy's face. So I looked him up on the.

448
00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:28,399
Speaker 5: Computer, saw his face, and I made peace with that,

449
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,560
Speaker 5: and I started writing him a letter. And then I

450
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 5: was like, you know what, I don't owe him that

451
00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,240
Speaker 5: I can forget his brother moved on. But instead I

452
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,120
Speaker 5: actually wrote a letter to my mother because we were

453
00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:41,080
Speaker 5: in a space of healing and I was getting to

454
00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:44,120
Speaker 5: a space of realizing I thought I had forgiven her,

455
00:18:44,480 --> 00:18:47,199
Speaker 5: but I was holding on to something, and so that

456
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:49,520
Speaker 5: letter allowed me to release that and get to a

457
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:54,440
Speaker 5: space where Man, my mother and our relationship has evolved

458
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,399
Speaker 5: to the point where I feel like the parent, you

459
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,000
Speaker 5: know what I'm saying, and trying to protect the little

460
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:01,080
Speaker 5: girl that got hurt.

461
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:04,000
Speaker 4: That turned her into a hurt woman and a hurt mother.

462
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,280
Speaker 5: And that was the beauty of forgiveness, is like I

463
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:09,359
Speaker 5: forget this guy. I had to let it go. I

464
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,080
Speaker 5: could have, you know, been back in that old energy.

465
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:15,560
Speaker 5: And I'm like, man, that don't feel good in my spirit,

466
00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:18,159
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Because I've said to people

467
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,960
Speaker 5: like you aren't your worst moment. And like that guy,

468
00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:23,399
Speaker 5: whatever moment he was in when he shot me, I

469
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,600
Speaker 5: was in a similar moment when I shot somebody else.

470
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 3: But would you feel different if he didn't apologize, If

471
00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:32,160
Speaker 3: he didn't come out and say I'm sorry.

472
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:32,720
Speaker 2: Would you.

473
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,399
Speaker 3: Feel differently and not say, you know what, I needed

474
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 3: that apology, you know what I mean?

475
00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:40,520
Speaker 6: Would it make you feel different?

476
00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 3: Would you still forgive the same way if he didn't

477
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 3: apologize and you found out who it was, Yeah, I would.

478
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:48,240
Speaker 5: Because I have the wisdom how to understand that oftentimes

479
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 5: people are operating out of a spirit or hope that

480
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:51,240
Speaker 5: has nothing to.

481
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:53,120
Speaker 4: Do with me. Oo you know what I mean.

482
00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:55,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean like a lot of times we're holding

483
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,480
Speaker 5: on to things with people that we aren't even really

484
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,119
Speaker 5: thinking about how did they arrive at that right? Like

485
00:20:02,320 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 5: you know I talk about in the book, my brother

486
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,240
Speaker 5: was murdered in July twenty twenty one, and I remember

487
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,600
Speaker 5: sitting in my family's living room and I'm you know,

488
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 5: I'm coming home. I'm like, let me come home and help,

489
00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,000
Speaker 5: but my brother let me be a support for my dad,

490
00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:19,000
Speaker 5: my mom. And then I had this moment where I

491
00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 5: was watching my step mom and she's heartbroken. It's her

492
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 5: baby boy that's been murdered. And I felt guilty, you

493
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:28,440
Speaker 5: know what I mean. So I was caught between this

494
00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,200
Speaker 5: world of trying to grieve for my brother, guilty because

495
00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 5: I made somebody else family feel like that, you know

496
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:36,000
Speaker 5: what I mean. And so I was sitting there like,

497
00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,080
Speaker 5: what's stuck with this energy? And so when I look

498
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,119
Speaker 5: at somebody who's done something that's harmful, like I can't

499
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 5: like just just them solely based on that without looking within.

500
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:50,040
Speaker 5: And when I look within, I realized that the decision

501
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,640
Speaker 5: I made as a nineteen year old kid came from

502
00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 5: a space of hurt, PTSD, all the things. So whether

503
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,840
Speaker 5: he would apologize or not, I have to realize that

504
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 5: that he was probably similar, you know, he probably came

505
00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,639
Speaker 5: through gun trauma and gun violence and there was something

506
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,440
Speaker 5: inside him that was broken, you know what I mean,

507
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,399
Speaker 5: that had nothing to do with me. That's how me

508
00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,879
Speaker 5: and my mother was able to hear my mother she

509
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:14,880
Speaker 5: started to open up to me man about the things

510
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 5: that happened in her life, and it all made sense.

511
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 6: You understood, you know what I mean.

512
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 5: I understood that she was, you know, sexually assaulted as

513
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,720
Speaker 5: a kid, she was abused as a teenager, you know

514
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,600
Speaker 5: what I mean. And so like once I recognize that,

515
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 5: I have to see that in anybody that I have

516
00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,520
Speaker 5: conflict with, that something inside of them is dictating the

517
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 5: behavior in the same way that it happened with me,

518
00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So that's how I get

519
00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 5: to that deep forgiveness. And that's one of the things

520
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 5: about the book that you as you begin to read

521
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 5: through it, not only are you getting these powerful stories,

522
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 5: but you're really getting like, here's a how to unlock

523
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 5: that door and let yourself out, because when you don't forgive,

524
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 5: the other person isn't suffering like you're You're trapped in

525
00:21:56,840 --> 00:21:59,040
Speaker 5: that cage, right, And so I wanted to make sure

526
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:00,840
Speaker 5: that people had the keys let themselves out.

527
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,200
Speaker 1: You have a shocked by the amount of people that

528
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 1: want to keep you in that box. That that that

529
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 1: box of oh yeah, he murdered somebody when h nineteen

530
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,359
Speaker 1: years old, because I saw the comments on Joe Rogan.

531
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 1: But then on the flip side, yo, you your your

532
00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:19,879
Speaker 1: redeeming quality was that moment. It was the fact you

533
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:21,960
Speaker 1: went to prison. I was at Rikers with you. Yes,

534
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,439
Speaker 1: I said, the connection that you have, you know, with

535
00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: these inmates. You tell that story and they automatic you

536
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 1: can you can see them like, oh I can relate

537
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 1: to what that brother went through, Like they look at

538
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: you as a beacon of hope. You know, somebody who

539
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: paid it to society and made it. So you have

540
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 1: a shock how people want to keep you in that box.

541
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 5: I'm never really shocked because I know that oftentimes people

542
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,320
Speaker 5: are operating out of their own hurt, you know what

543
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 5: I mean?

544
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:44,760
Speaker 4: And like they're hot. They are.

545
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 5: We live in a snap judgment society, like people can

546
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,720
Speaker 5: look at you and make a decision and a split

547
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 5: second without actually really getting to know you. You know,

548
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,920
Speaker 5: That's one of the things I was super happy when

549
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,400
Speaker 5: we went into Rikers Island is the work that you're

550
00:22:58,440 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 5: doing in the world. I think it's some of the

551
00:22:59,560 --> 00:23:02,840
Speaker 5: most incredile but meaningful work ever. You know, this mental

552
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:06,560
Speaker 5: health piece is so important to our culture, and prison

553
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,159
Speaker 5: is where it's really needed at.

554
00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:08,680
Speaker 4: You know what I mean.

555
00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 5: And for you to be able to bear witness to

556
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 5: that in that testimony, you see that people aren't in

557
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 5: there like yo, let me get out and wild out.

558
00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 4: They're really looking for help and they're really hurt.

559
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 5: And so you know that balances out for me, you

560
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:23,240
Speaker 5: know what I mean, to go in there man and

561
00:23:23,280 --> 00:23:25,880
Speaker 5: pour into people and like those are my people, that's

562
00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 5: my tribe, you know what I'm saying. But to go

563
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:29,920
Speaker 5: in there and the pouring to them and had them

564
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:33,560
Speaker 5: pour into me, like that balances out all the negativity,

565
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,840
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, and what I always think

566
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 5: about you know, I'm thinking about them people in the comments.

567
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 5: You know, I sometimes I'm kind of petty in my thoughts.

568
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 5: You know what I'm saying, I'm like, here, this person

569
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 5: is trying to troll me, and I might have just

570
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 5: flew in on a PJ. I'm good, you know what

571
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,399
Speaker 5: I'm saying, Like I'm great, man. My wife might have

572
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 5: just went out and had an amazing dinner. My son might

573
00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,000
Speaker 5: have accomplished something brilliant, Like life is good, and like

574
00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,159
Speaker 5: that's where I think sometimes we get lost at especially

575
00:23:59,200 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 5: with like you know, all the digital content is we

576
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 5: forget we're living a real life. We're really present in

577
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 5: the moment. And again that's another practice that I have.

578
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 5: It's mindfulness. It's like it doesn't mean that you don't

579
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 5: hear the things. I just bring myself back to my

580
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 5: real moments. Where am I really at in life? You

581
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,000
Speaker 5: know what I mean? Am I stuck in nineteen ninety

582
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 5: one because that's where they want to be?

583
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 4: Or am I actually present? You know? Am I out

584
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 4: here pruning my plants? You know what I'm saying, I'm.

585
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 5: Out here you know, doing whatever it is at home

586
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 5: that brings me joy?

587
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 4: You know?

588
00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 5: Am I sitting out and the grives just reading the

589
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,280
Speaker 5: book and enjoying life while these people are miserable, you

590
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:33,680
Speaker 5: know what I mean.

591
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:35,800
Speaker 4: So I don't give too much, but you do.

592
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 3: You do understand people's mindsets sometimes, right. I remember the

593
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:42,960
Speaker 3: first time when I heard the story, and I remember

594
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 3: the first time you came on the breakfast club reading

595
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 3: the comments, and the first thing people would say was, well,

596
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:48,560
Speaker 3: why him?

597
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,080
Speaker 4: Right, he just did this?

598
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 6: Why is he on Oprah? Why is he on a

599
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 6: breakfast club? Like this is not fair because people are

600
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,800
Speaker 6: so used to people doing things and not changing.

601
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,679
Speaker 3: They see, like you said, they see the negatives things,

602
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 3: but they don't see the other side of it, right,

603
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:04,960
Speaker 3: And sometimes I feel like, and this is why sometimes

604
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 3: I have a problem with Sometimes people are the church

605
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 3: that do foul stuff or they talk about the stuff

606
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: that they shouldn't do, and then you see them doing

607
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,120
Speaker 3: the thing like we're not all human, like we all

608
00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 3: don't make mistakes, right. But it's always I always says

609
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 3: apology is fine, but it's the change behavior that shows everything. Absolutely,

610
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 3: And we've seen your journey from that change behavior. So

611
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 3: I'm sure you understand why people's first knowledge of first

612
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:27,040
Speaker 3: mind frame is this, that and the other.

613
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:28,960
Speaker 4: Right you have to yeah, no, absolutely, you know.

614
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,440
Speaker 5: And I think about how we arrive at our conclusions

615
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,640
Speaker 5: right as we see the end product. So they see

616
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 5: me here, you know, they don't see the work that

617
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 5: it took for me to get here.

618
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 4: They see me on Oprah, and I realized I came home.

619
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 5: I was literally hustling books out of the trunk of

620
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 5: my car like a lot of people be like they

621
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 5: got it out the mud. Me and my brother we

622
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 5: always talk about we got it from beneath the mud.

623
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 4: You know.

624
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 5: I used to set up tables and gentlemen's clubs. You

625
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 5: know what I'm saying to be like yo by these books, right,

626
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 5: And I've got rejected so many times. I mean I've

627
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 5: tried to get employment, felly came up, like you name

628
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:01,960
Speaker 5: a rejection.

629
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 4: I's got it.

630
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 5: Right, And so they don't see that part of the

631
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,479
Speaker 5: of the journey. But also understand, right, people feel like,

632
00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 5: you know, you you've done something bad in life. You

633
00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 5: don't deserve any good to happen to you, you know,

634
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,480
Speaker 5: but I hate you for that.

635
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 2: Yeah it's hypocritical.

636
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not gonna name names, but we've got

637
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,640
Speaker 1: rappers who've done that and rap about it, and yeah,

638
00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: haven't shown any.

639
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 2: Change made at all. They still get welcomed everywhere.

640
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, I celebrated absolutely, And I think that's one of

641
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:33,760
Speaker 5: the things in our culture, like we pick and choose

642
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 5: what we what we celebrate, and would always just try

643
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 5: to tell people is like, understand, as long as you

644
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,639
Speaker 5: wake up breathing, you're on a journey, you know what

645
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 5: I mean, And where you start doesn't mean it's where

646
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 5: you have to end. That's That's the amazing thing that

647
00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:49,040
Speaker 5: you know people will really get out of the book

648
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 5: is that Look, I started, you know, in the in

649
00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 5: the worst of environments, with the worst of circumstances, and

650
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,640
Speaker 5: mentally I began to break free from that and start

651
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 5: to think about what is what is life possible abilities?

652
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 5: Like I was telling you know, the brothers and sisters

653
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 5: in prison yesterday, I wrote down when I was in

654
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 5: solitary confact I didn't even know if I was getting

655
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 5: out of prison. I was like, but if I ever

656
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 5: get out, here's all the things that I want to

657
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 5: manifest in my life. And I still had those journals

658
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,280
Speaker 5: right now in my garage, and I wrote down everything

659
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 5: that I wanted accomplish, you know what I mean.

660
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 4: And so I did that because life really.

661
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:25,960
Speaker 5: Is a journey and as long as you wake up breathing,

662
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 5: you got an opportunity, and it's really up to you

663
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,640
Speaker 5: to seize that opportunity. And so that's what I've done.

664
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 5: I've seized the opportunity. And I just keep growing and

665
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 5: keep building, and keep evolving and keep being just curious

666
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 5: about life.

667
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 4: You know.

668
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: One of the things that kept coming up yesterday even

669
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: at Rikers was the topic of grief. Yeah, and man,

670
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: grief is one of those hidden prisons that it's almost like,

671
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,680
Speaker 1: you know, you're get in trouble back in.

672
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 2: The day, you end up doing a weekend. You had

673
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:54,679
Speaker 2: a good week, you that work, but.

674
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: Getting locked up for the weekend, you do some of

675
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: those guys that had to go in on the weekend, Right,

676
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: That's what it feels like with grief.

677
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 2: So how do you get out of that hidden prison

678
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:04,640
Speaker 2: of grief?

679
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, that's that's that's when I actually start

680
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 5: with grief because I think it's the toughest prison for

681
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 5: anybody to get out, because can't nobody gets come to

682
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 5: you to be like charlamagn't stop grieving, Like that'll be

683
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 5: mean or cruel, right, and all grief isn't the same, right, Like,

684
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 5: you know, when I think about my brother's death. I

685
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,160
Speaker 5: think about that diffinitely from my grandmother who just got

686
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 5: older and she passed and she transitioned sad miss Granny

687
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,160
Speaker 5: missed the things.

688
00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:28,600
Speaker 4: My brother that was traumatic.

689
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 5: You know what I mean, sonstandable, It's more understandable, right,

690
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 5: And so those different type of grief. You can go

691
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,400
Speaker 5: back to work after two weeks after you know, grandma passed.

692
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 5: Somebody in your family is murdered or tragically lost, that's.

693
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 4: More difficult, right.

694
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 5: What I what I arrived at for myself is gratitude.

695
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 5: You know, how do I How am I thankful for

696
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 5: the time that I spent with my brother? How am

697
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 5: I thankful for my brother's name is Shara is always

698
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 5: want to shout him out's name?

699
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:55,479
Speaker 4: Is?

700
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 5: How do I honor what he meant to our family?

701
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 5: You know, my siblings and and and that's what allows

702
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 5: me to heal.

703
00:29:03,880 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 4: But here's the thing, like in the book.

704
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 5: Even the way that we designed the book, there's a

705
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,720
Speaker 5: door in this part where it's about digging deeper. And

706
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 5: the reason I created the open door is because sometimes

707
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 5: you go in and out of these things. If you

708
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,600
Speaker 5: live life long enough, you're gonna grieve more than once right,

709
00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:20,880
Speaker 5: And it's not always death. Sometimes it's an employment loss,

710
00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 5: it's a love loss, it's losing a friend, friendships to end.

711
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 5: And to me, it's always about gratitude. You know what

712
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 5: am I thankful for in this experience? And it doesn't

713
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 5: take away like the longing for those moments or missing

714
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,080
Speaker 5: my brother. It just allows me to reframe that his

715
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 5: life wasn't the moment it ended. It was all of

716
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 5: the things that came before that. And I got a

717
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 5: chance to appreciate that and spend time with him, and

718
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 5: you know, and and and love. Well, this was my

719
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 5: only little brother, you know, this my baby brother, and

720
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 5: and all the time we got a chance to share.

721
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 5: You know, I wanted to be able to honor that,

722
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 5: you know, through a spirit of gratitude.

723
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: And so yeah, you talk about that in the book.

724
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: So it's like, whenever that grief comes up, just just

725
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: be grateful for the time you did spend.

726
00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:08,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, Like what what part of that?

727
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:08,440
Speaker 4: You know?

728
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 5: I go back to like my brother, Like I have

729
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 5: a younger sister named Bootsie and her and she's the

730
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:15,000
Speaker 5: baby girl.

731
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:15,960
Speaker 4: He was the baby boy.

732
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,880
Speaker 5: And they have a special relationship, right, they talk smack

733
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 5: to each other all the time. So on those tough

734
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 5: tough days, I think about the way that them too

735
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 5: used to joke, you know what I mean, and that

736
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 5: brings me my spirit a sense of peace, you know,

737
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 5: And that's and that's you know. In the book, also

738
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 5: talk about we had this beautiful puppy that you know,

739
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 5: a negligent trainer left the gate open and got ran over,

740
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 5: you know, and it was like it was heartbreaking, you know.

741
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 5: And I also talk about my younger son, Say who

742
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:46,280
Speaker 5: being diagnosed with type one diabetes and seeing his young

743
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 5: life changed.

744
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 4: So there's that type of grief.

745
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 5: Right and like now we have to manage and navigate

746
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:54,200
Speaker 5: life through that lens, which is you know, it's wild

747
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 5: as a parent, you know, because you think about your

748
00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:58,360
Speaker 5: kid accomplished something. The first thing you do, let's go

749
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 5: grab ice cream, you know. So we had to start

750
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 5: thinking differently about all these moments, but again just leaning

751
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 5: into gratitude that he's the type of kid that's like

752
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I'm going to fight this thing and I'm

753
00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 5: going to stand up you know, to my own body,

754
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 5: and like that watching him, that gives me a sense

755
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 5: of like, man, I'm thankful that we've embode in his

756
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 5: spirit so that he can, you know, he can rise

757
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 5: to the casion.

758
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 4: You know.

759
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: In part three of the book, you talk about embracing

760
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: freedom and down the separate chapters. I'm just gonna name

761
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: all the chapters, but I want you to tell me

762
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: which one of those is the most important for finding

763
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 1: and embracing freedom.

764
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 2: So you have hope and composure.

765
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you have love, you have joy, you have success,

766
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: you have facing down fear, becoming unstoppable, finding true freedom?

767
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,000
Speaker 2: Which one of those is most important?

768
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 4: All of them? Trying to man, you gotta read all,

769
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 4: you know what I mean.

770
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:50,920
Speaker 5: But I would say the thing that I found the

771
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 5: most interesting was was joy, especially like as a as

772
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,360
Speaker 5: a man. You know, we don't we don't often give

773
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 5: ourselves from missing to fully give in to the idea

774
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 5: that we can't experience joy and happiness and that it

775
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,320
Speaker 5: doesn't make you sow for a week or a lame

776
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 5: or whatever. That it's actually dope and amazing, you know.

777
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 5: And so I think joy really kind of undergirds like

778
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 5: what it means to love, you know, to you know,

779
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 5: one of the things that is great to me is

780
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 5: like my son and my wife, they have similar energy.

781
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 5: They're like excitable and like you know, they get turned

782
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 5: up like you know, for anything, and I always watch

783
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,440
Speaker 5: that and it's just like, man, that's an amazing orientation

784
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 5: around life, you know, And even though I don't have

785
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 5: that type of energy, Like my mindset is more like

786
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 5: how do I show up in joy with them? And

787
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 5: then how I show up and joy in my own life.

788
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,560
Speaker 5: And it was a difficult thing I didn't even realize,

789
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 5: Like my reaction to things that are joyful was initially resistance.

790
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 4: You know.

791
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 5: I got invited on an incredible trip to go to

792
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 5: Italy yacht for like thirteen days, and my instinct was

793
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:02,480
Speaker 5: like figuring out ways why I shouldn't go on this trip.

794
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 4: And that's when I realized it.

795
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 5: Was attached to something deeper, this this inability to really

796
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,160
Speaker 5: just give myself permission to let go. And once I

797
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,360
Speaker 5: identified that, I was like, oh, I'm not standing my

798
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 5: own way anymore. I'm showing up you name, you name.

799
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:16,920
Speaker 4: The same thing.

800
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 5: I'm going to it, you know what I'm saying, Uh,

801
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,480
Speaker 5: And I'm gonna enjoy it. I'm gonna be president and

802
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 5: like that to me is like the ultimate freedom.

803
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was glad you used that term of joy

804
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: because I've been saying in this era that we're in

805
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: right now, black people have to create safe spaces for

806
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: us to just simply experience.

807
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 5: Jo Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, because that's that's the thing. Like

808
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 5: so much of like where we're at coachally, we're in

809
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 5: survival mode, you know, and once you step out of

810
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 5: survival and getting the thriving, you realize that that joy

811
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,200
Speaker 5: is like one of the greatest components of what it

812
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 5: means to live a life that where you're thriving at

813
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 5: When you're in that survival mode, it's hard to appreciate anything,

814
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. It's like we we celebrate,

815
00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 5: but are we fully present in that celebration, you know.

816
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 5: And that's what I really wanted to offers, like here's

817
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 5: how you like not only not only experienced joy, but

818
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 5: be a joy hunter, you know. So I have this

819
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,440
Speaker 5: part in the book where I talk about how do

820
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 5: you seek it out?

821
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 4: How do you go and find it?

822
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,280
Speaker 5: How do you go in and experience and be curious

823
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,879
Speaker 5: about life in such a way where you're like, oh,

824
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 5: that actually was joyful?

825
00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 4: You know.

826
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 5: So when I'm when I'm out different cities, different times,

827
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 5: I'm like, what would bring me joy in terms of experience,

828
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 5: Like my one of my favorite things is I like

829
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 5: to collect first edition paperback books written by block authors.

830
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,800
Speaker 5: So when I go into a city, I'm like, where's

831
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 5: the used bookstore at? And I'm telling you, like I

832
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,480
Speaker 5: be hyped up, like I'm about to go get the

833
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 5: latest mixtape. You know what I'm saying, because that brings

834
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 5: me joy, that sense of fulfillment of like seeing these

835
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 5: pages that somebody has written.

836
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm a.

837
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:52,279
Speaker 5: Writer, so that that's like my joy hunting. I'm like

838
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 5: out on a mission.

839
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,120
Speaker 1: You know, it's wild because as you're saying that, I'm

840
00:34:55,160 --> 00:34:58,520
Speaker 1: watching your wife smile and so like she felt, he

841
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: feels she knows the joy you feel from that, and

842
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: it resonates with her.

843
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, because I've drug her on some missions. Let's go

844
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 5: to this bookstore and I'll be turned up, but see

845
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 5: be with.

846
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 4: It, you know what I mean.

847
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: Do you feel like trauma is the root of all

848
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 2: hidden prisons?

849
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 5: I think trauma is one of the core anchoring pieces

850
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 5: of the hidden prisons. You know, a lot of how

851
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 5: we see our lives has been shaped by our childhood,

852
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 5: and there's like big trauma and small trauma, right, But

853
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 5: I think it's it's really shaped by just negative experiences,

854
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 5: because some don't quite rise to the level of trauma,

855
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 5: but they do rise to the level of like making

856
00:35:37,239 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 5: you think about something in a way that's unpleasant. And

857
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 5: I think that's where a lot of the negative self

858
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 5: talught comes from. It's like, you know, you're in environments

859
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 5: might it's like, oh, you can't accomplish that, and now

860
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 5: you've adopted that's not necessarily Trauma's just negative input, but

861
00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 5: now it has you questioning whether you can accomplish a

862
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 5: thing or not, right, And so I think there's like

863
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 5: the kind of big trauma, then they're like this kind

864
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:02,440
Speaker 5: of small negative inputs.

865
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: How do we use your new book, How to Be Free,

866
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,680
Speaker 1: to shift from telling young people, especially young brothers, to

867
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: do better to actually creating healing spaces that deal with

868
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: that trump.

869
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 5: That's a great question. I think we saw a lot

870
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,839
Speaker 5: of that yesterday when we was at Riker. So one

871
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 5: of the things that I've done with this book is

872
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 5: I started the largest book club in prisons.

873
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 4: So we gave the book away to.

874
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 5: Thirteen hundred prisons, to about a million people who are

875
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 5: incarcerated because I want to make sure that they had

876
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 5: access to this information and this framework so that they

877
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 5: can live the most free life possible, even though their

878
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 5: circumstances doesn't look look free. And I think what we

879
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 5: do is we start study groups, you know, we start

880
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 5: to really have these deep conversations, and like, it was

881
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 5: mind blowing to see how the people who are incarcerated

882
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 5: leaned into this book. Specifically, they had questions, they had thoughts,

883
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 5: they had all these things because we did create a

884
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 5: real framework within the book for them to kind of,

885
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,320
Speaker 5: you know, guide the conversation. And it was amazing, you

886
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 5: know what I'm saying, to really see how that played out.

887
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:05,359
Speaker 5: And I would love to do that out here where

888
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 5: we started to connect the dots, you know, especially in

889
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:11,720
Speaker 5: our culture where it's like, you know, I'm I'm it's

890
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:13,960
Speaker 5: wild sometime when I think about wrapping all the things

891
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:15,840
Speaker 5: that they're rapping about it, I'm like, I really lived

892
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,760
Speaker 5: that life, and but I may not be the person

893
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,080
Speaker 5: that they see as being accessible because I'm not over

894
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 5: indexing on my past. I'm like, listen, I'm living a

895
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 5: whole different life and I want to bring you to

896
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 5: this part of it, not that old life, you.

897
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:29,879
Speaker 4: Know what I mean.

898
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 5: But I think this is a book opportunity that you know,

899
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,960
Speaker 5: I would love to see more brothers and sisters in

900
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 5: the culture, like starting study groups and think tanks around

901
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,760
Speaker 5: this framework, because it really is one of those problems

902
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:42,960
Speaker 5: and we don't have nothing like it in our culture, right.

903
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,919
Speaker 4: Like you know, when I was when I was set

904
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 4: out to write this.

905
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,959
Speaker 5: Particular book, I really was like, Man, I thought about

906
00:37:49,960 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 5: the books that helped me in my life while I

907
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:55,279
Speaker 5: was incarcerated as a man, think of the secret man

908
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 5: starts with meaning all these books, and I didn't see

909
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 5: any book that was authored by somebody who really had

910
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 5: lived and experience that I had lived, and so I

911
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:05,960
Speaker 5: was like, Oh, it's up to me to create that.

912
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 5: And that's how we ended up with this book. And

913
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,680
Speaker 5: shout out to my brother being Horowitz, who actually encouraged

914
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 5: me to write a lesson book which was really powerful

915
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 5: and impactful.

916
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 2: Is a desire to be accepted a hidden prison?

917
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 4: Oh? Absolutely yeah.

918
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:22,280
Speaker 5: I think it's one of the one of the biggest

919
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 5: hidden prisons is that we're uh and it's really who

920
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 5: are you trying to be accepted by? And what do

921
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,600
Speaker 5: you think that they have that you don't have inside yourself.

922
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:34,320
Speaker 5: And I think when you when you begin to strengthen

923
00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:36,840
Speaker 5: your sense of who you are as a human being,

924
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,759
Speaker 5: then you are draw to you what you need. But

925
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 5: you won't go out seeking acceptance from any and everybody.

926
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:45,720
Speaker 4: The book is out.

927
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 1: Right now, and then you invite me to write is

928
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: yesterday man Shack was clinding me because I take.

929
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 5: He took a security personnel in an environment eight thousand, Yo.

930
00:38:58,640 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 4: It was wid I don't practice.

931
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 6: It was that weird, like I was.

932
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:04,479
Speaker 5: I was laughing the whole way as I was thinking

933
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 5: about what is going to happen when it's security walk

934
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 5: in and it's like literally hundreds of officers that are armed.

935
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:12,919
Speaker 4: And I'm like, Charlamne, you rolling in here with me? Man?

936
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 4: What are you doing?

937
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 2: I didn't even think about it.

938
00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,439
Speaker 4: You good in any hood, any prison. When you rolling

939
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:17,759
Speaker 4: with me.

940
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: I understand that I didn't the practice bad habits. You

941
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,920
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying the movie that's right, that's right,

942
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,040
Speaker 1: But that was stupid. And then just make took his

943
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:29,319
Speaker 1: fire when he made him saying and you know he used.

944
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:30,560
Speaker 2: To be a cop. So I was like, yo, you

945
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 2: ever wanted to be a CEO Rikers he was.

946
00:39:32,239 --> 00:39:38,320
Speaker 6: Like, Jesus, he's also doing your wealth ex bo Yeah.

947
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 4: No, not this year. I'm a missing man.

948
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,919
Speaker 5: That's I've done it a couple of years and man,

949
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 5: it's one of the best best experience. I really encourage

950
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 5: everybody to go check it out, and we're gonna do

951
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 5: one on Rikers Island.

952
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 4: Gonna make that happen.

953
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 1: But you know, I'm glad you did bring that up though,

954
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:57,879
Speaker 1: because even though Shak is not doing it this year,

955
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: the years he's done it, it was such an important

956
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,520
Speaker 1: It was so important to have you there as well

957
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,480
Speaker 1: as Wallow because to your point, every year that we

958
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:09,439
Speaker 1: did it, there was always people there who had either

959
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: just got out of prison or got people who are

960
00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:14,960
Speaker 1: in prison right now and we don't understand how that

961
00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: impacts their mental especially brothers that just came home. It's

962
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: still institutionalized. And they were people like literally saying, y'all

963
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 1: need to add this component to the mental wealth x boo,

964
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: because those are the people that are dealing with it.

965
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 5: Absolutely absolutely, and I'll definitely be there next year. I'm

966
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:33,880
Speaker 5: so sad to be missing this one, but I'm super

967
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 5: excited to be out on tour with the book and

968
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:41,480
Speaker 5: celebrating man, this book number three. Man, So it's actually surreal,

969
00:40:41,560 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 5: you know, and you know you've written books. You know

970
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 5: how hard it is to get a book, book up,

971
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 5: book out in the world.

972
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: So a few weeks ago, man, so y'all holding hands,

973
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,719
Speaker 2: you have your hand braided all nights and beat back.

974
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,240
Speaker 4: Man.

975
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 5: You know you know the wild thing about about the

976
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 5: relationship with Oprahs. We're generally friends, man. And like when

977
00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 5: I when I first wrote my book, I don't know

978
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 5: if I told you the story, but I wrote my

979
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 5: first book in solitary and I was like, Yo, anybody

980
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 5: want to read this book? And the guy was like, man,

981
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,879
Speaker 5: this ain't over. Don't nobody want to read that ship?

982
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:13,800
Speaker 5: And I was like, damn. I was like that was cold.

983
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 5: But then I wrote it down as a goal. Opened

984
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 5: and read three of my books and invited me to

985
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:20,160
Speaker 5: her home multiple times.

986
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 1: And said that you were her greatest interview ever. Imagine

987
00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: open saying that about you, just my greatest interview ever.

988
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,480
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, And then we became real friends.

989
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:29,640
Speaker 2: Man.

990
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 4: So that's that's my girl.

991
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 5: And I shout her out all the time and she

992
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,880
Speaker 5: always reaches out. She I'm sorry, She'll be like congraands

993
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 5: on pub day, Shaka. You know, so she's genuinely she's

994
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 5: who she said she.

995
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:42,759
Speaker 2: Is, like, she didn't cook.

996
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,880
Speaker 5: We didn't know tequila that time we was working. It

997
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,399
Speaker 5: was it was it was great.

998
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.

999
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: She likes No.

1000
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:53,479
Speaker 5: She actually sent me a few bottles though that she

1001
00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 5: she she uped my game on.

1002
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,360
Speaker 4: The tequilas years ago. She asked me what my favorite was.

1003
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 4: I told her.

1004
00:41:57,880 --> 00:42:01,600
Speaker 5: She was like, let me send you, let me send

1005
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:05,240
Speaker 5: you something, and she sent me three bottles with my name.

1006
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 4: Absolutely and I drunk all three of them. Jesus all right.

1007
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 4: Not at the same time, I figured that we'll pick up.

1008
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,720
Speaker 6: The book How to Be Free Shock.

1009
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 1: Proving God to Escaping life' hitting prisoners. Don't forget that part.

1010
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 5: That's everybody got a hid in prison. For every hidden prison,

1011
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 5: there is a door, and this book is the key.

1012
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 6: It's the breakfast club.

1013
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,520
Speaker 3: Good morning every day, up weak, click your ass up,

1014
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:29,480
Speaker 3: the breakfast club.

1015
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:30,919
Speaker 2: You don't finish for y'all done