1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Dear Governor is a production of I Heart Media and 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: three Months Media. If you are moved by Jarvis Masters 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: and his thirty years struggle on San Quentin's Death throw, 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: and you'd like to support his cause, please consider signing 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: a petition on his behalf. Visit Free Jarvis dot org 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 1: slash podcast to sign your name to an open letter 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:26,120 Speaker 1: to California Governor Gavin Newsom, Dear Governor Newsom, Dear Mr 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: Governor Newsom. This is an open letter to Governor Gavin Newsom, 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: Dear Governor Newsom public. Throughout his life, Jarvis Masters has 10 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: endured more injustice and tragedy than any ordinary person. But 11 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,159 Speaker 1: then again, Jarvis is anything but ordinary. He has an 12 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 1: almost Forrest Gumpian nature about him, a man who has 13 00:00:57,080 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: been holed up in a nine by four cell since 14 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: the first steer President Reagan's first term, who has nevertheless 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: managed to live a remarkable life, attracting a circle of 16 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:12,200 Speaker 1: supporters that include world renowned spiritual and religious teachers, celebrities, 17 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: world class thinkers, philosophers, and writers, from Desmond two two 18 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: to Oprah Winfrey to Brian Stevenson. My name is David Chef. 19 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 1: I am a journalist. I've been a journalist for about 20 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: thirty forty years. Oh my god, and you know I 21 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 1: had the great fortune meeting Jarvis and then moving forward 22 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: with him to write a book about his life and 23 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: the most extraordinary experience. One world class writer whom Jarvis 24 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: has drawn into his life is author David Chef. David's 25 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 1: best selling memoir A Beautiful Boy was made into a 26 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: major motion picture starring Steve Correll and Timothy shallow May, 27 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: and his latest work is a biography about Jarvis called 28 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: The Buddhist on Death Row How One Man Found Light 29 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: in the Darkest Place A in in true gumpy in form, 30 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: Jarvis's life story managed to attract the interest of none 31 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: other than the Holiness himself, the Dalai Lama. About the 32 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: Buddhist on Death Row, he writes, quote, this book shows 33 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,559 Speaker 1: vividly how even in the face of the greatest adversity, 34 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:20,480 Speaker 1: compassion and warmhearted concern for others brings peace and inner strength. 35 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: David has interviewed some of the most fascinating people in 36 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: modern history, including John Lennon, Steve Jobs, Ansel Adams, Betty 37 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 1: for Dan and more. I had a good friend whose 38 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 1: name is Pamela Crosby and for years she talked about 39 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: this guy named Jarvis Masters, who she considered her best 40 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: friend or one of her best friends on death row 41 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,359 Speaker 1: inside Quentin. He was innocent, he'd become a Buddhist practitioner 42 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 1: and teacher. And she described it in ways that you know, 43 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 1: would have been extraordinary way to describe anybody, but somebody 44 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: in prison on death row for most of his life. 45 00:02:56,840 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: You know, it was just remarkable about the way that 46 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: he connected with so many people that had in spite 47 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 1: of the fact that he lived in one of the 48 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 1: most depressing, dark, scary places imaginable, he still was filled 49 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: with this light and joy, and he was positive. And 50 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: she would leave him and feel instead of, you know, 51 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: sort of depressed and and you know, broken hearted. I 52 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: mean she felt that too, but she also talked about 53 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: feeling uplifted because he was so much a great presence, 54 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: And she kept asking me to go visit him, and 55 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:30,440 Speaker 1: I was busy. I didn't have time to do it. 56 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,240 Speaker 1: And at one point I was doing an article for 57 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: the New York Times magazine about the warden at Saint Clinton, 58 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: whose name was Jeane Whitford, and I asked DEDI if 59 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: she's heard about this guy and she had, and she 60 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: sort of confirmed some of the stories that I've heard 61 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 1: from Pamela. And it was after that the night I 62 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: went to see Jarvis, and I got it, you know, 63 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 1: I got it. I was with him, he was in 64 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: the adjustment center, so I was only able to meet 65 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 1: with him with a piece of sence thick PLEXI class 66 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: between us. And even through that class, I understood why 67 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: Pabla and other people quite spoken to by there and 68 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 1: described him as as a very special person in their lives. 69 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 1: Did you ever been into a prison before. I had 70 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,440 Speaker 1: never been on death row. I had no idea what 71 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: to expect when I went in this room, the visiting hall, 72 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: So yeah, I was. I was nervous. I was unsure. 73 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,040 Speaker 1: And by the way, you know, I also knew that 74 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:29,479 Speaker 1: everyone on death row, in fact, everyone in prison, is innocent. 75 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: I mean, nine nine percent probably will say that they're innocent, 76 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: and of course, you know, we know that most of 77 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 1: them aren't. So I was skeptical. I was not naive 78 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: when I went in there. In spite of what Pablo said, 79 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: I thought, you know, could he be this just really 80 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: good manipulator? Who was you know, taking advantage of this 81 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: very kind hearted woman, and so I went in there 82 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: with this uncertainty, this trepidation, this nervousness about going into 83 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: a place where I knew, you know, some of them 84 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:03,839 Speaker 1: was vile. In criminals, California is the last, probably fifty 85 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 1: year history. We're there. It did not take long for 86 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 1: Jarvis to reassure me and to make me feel very 87 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: comfortable there. Following is a memory from the Buddhist on 88 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,240 Speaker 1: Death Row in which David first meets Jarvis in San 89 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 1: Quentin audiobook read by Michael Boatman. I sit in a 90 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: molded plastic chair on one side of a small table, 91 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:28,280 Speaker 1: opposite a man named Jarvis j. Masters. I tell him 92 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,159 Speaker 1: I'm considering writing a book about him, and ask what 93 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: he thinks of the idea. I emphasize that if I 94 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 1: go forward, I'll report what I find, both the good 95 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,920 Speaker 1: and the bad. I can't be painted worse than I've 96 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,919 Speaker 1: been painted, Master says, and I guess that's true for 97 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: someone convicted of murder. I mean, he adds, look where 98 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: we are. Where we are is in a closet sized 99 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 1: cage among a dozen similar cages in a visitation hall 100 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: served for the condemned at San Quentin State Prison. I 101 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 1: follow Master's gaze as it sweeps the other cages in 102 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: which convicted killers sit with family members or attorneys. Ramone 103 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: Bojorkez Salcido, convicted of murdering seven people, including his wife 104 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: and daughters, sits with his lawyer in a cage opposite ours. Nearby, 105 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: Richard Allan Davis, who raped and killed a twelve year 106 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: old girl much as Dorito's, in the cage on the end, 107 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: near a bookshelf lined with board games and bibles. Scott Peterson, 108 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: convicted of murdering his eight months pregnant wife and their 109 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: unborn child, sits with his sister. Peterson looks relaxed and fit, 110 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: but some prisoners appear tense, agitated, or sullen. And then 111 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: there are guys diminutive, bespectacled, innocuous who look like tellers 112 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 1: or in one case John Oliver, there looks deceived. Masters 113 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:07,239 Speaker 1: says over the years he's been surprised when he's learned 114 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: about the crimes committed by the meekest and politest of 115 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: his death Row neighbors. Some of them have perfect manners, 116 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 1: placed their napkins on their laps, but half of Iowa's missing. 117 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: What was it about? Jarvis he had already written to 118 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: autobiographical books, That Bird Has My Wings and Finding Freedom. 119 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: What did you want to write about Jarvis and accomplish 120 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 1: with your book that that wasn't already accomplished with his 121 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: own biography. That's a really good question. I had read 122 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: Jarvis's books, I didn't mention math even before I went 123 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: to see him. Yeah, it really was impressed by them 124 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 1: and moved by them. I really got insights both to 125 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: his life, his history, and also to his mind his 126 00:07:54,120 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: spiritual practice. I guess I was still ascinated, really intrigued, 127 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 1: and maybe even in a personal way, drawn to Jarvis's 128 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 1: story because it was about how people can change, how 129 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: a person changed, and it was something that I struggle 130 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,160 Speaker 1: with and and continue to struggle with in my life, 131 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 1: people around me suffering, and I felt that, you know, 132 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: there was a story that was must to be told. 133 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: I mean, Jervis's perspective on things was amazing and fascinating. 134 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: But when we see a person from the outside, we 135 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: see the story in a different way. And I saw 136 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: this a challenge because it was very unlike anything I'd 137 00:08:36,040 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: ever written before, and the challenge was to write about change, 138 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:45,800 Speaker 1: to write about a person's spiritual transformation requires going inside 139 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: their head, and so much of that process is internal, 140 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 1: especially when you're sitting in the jail cell there we 141 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: know you know it retreats up the mountains to tobout 142 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: to to you know, to visit the guru um and 143 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: so you to to go into that world to try 144 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: it was a challenge to try to figure out, you know, 145 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: how to how to tell that story. And it was 146 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,439 Speaker 1: very meaningful to me in the personal way. As I said, 147 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: when I was here from Pamel and by then I 148 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 1: met some of his other friends, and I met his 149 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:19,839 Speaker 1: teacher Pama children. And the idea that the person on 150 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: death row who had the brutal life that he had 151 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,200 Speaker 1: was someone who could instruct all of us, who teach 152 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: us uh, it seemed in some ways inconceivable. So I 153 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: wanted to find out. I wanted to understand who he 154 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: was and what that experience was and what that message was, 155 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: and to see if it was true. Relationship began very tentatively. 156 00:09:56,040 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: I knew him from his biography and through his friends UM, 157 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: but I didn't really know him and didn't know personally, 158 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: and he certainly didn't know me. In our relationship, like 159 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:11,559 Speaker 1: any relationship evolved. The evolved evolved slowly, very slowly. We 160 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: got to know each other, and it wasn't I mean, 161 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:20,840 Speaker 1: a small part of it was my deciding to commit 162 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 1: to writing about him, because that's hard, you know, talk about. 163 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 1: But the bigger part challenge actually came from his side, 164 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: which is to see if, over the course of our 165 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,160 Speaker 1: getting to know each other, that Jarvis would come to 166 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,440 Speaker 1: trust me to tell his story. I mean, it is 167 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 1: a lot to ask someone. And so it evolved very 168 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: very very slowly, and I started to have the kinds 169 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: of experience as other people talked about with him. You know, 170 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,200 Speaker 1: he never intended to be some you know, sort of 171 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: guru spiritual teacher. In fact, he you know, he laughed 172 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: and almost in some ways even disdainful of the idea 173 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,800 Speaker 1: that he was. But I began to have experiences with 174 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: him where I really did feel like I was both 175 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,200 Speaker 1: learning from him and was inspired by him and then 176 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: attracted other parts of my life. Can you give an 177 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:19,839 Speaker 1: example of that. Those experiences, there were just so many, 178 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: and they happened over time, and I think that I 179 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:24,080 Speaker 1: think for going deep with him was maybe meaningful to 180 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: him too, because I do know that there were many 181 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: times when all of a sudden we would kind of 182 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 1: be lifted out of that grim visiting room inside Saint 183 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:35,960 Speaker 1: Quentin and we were somewhere else, and I think that 184 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: we both shared it and I would look at each 185 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: other and suddenly be back in that room and realized, God, 186 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: where did we just go? Um? You know the one 187 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,440 Speaker 1: that I guess that I ended up telling him in 188 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: the book that really sort of into into me says it. 189 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,600 Speaker 1: But I visited Jarvis on Christmas Day in the visiting room, 190 00:11:56,640 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: and when you visit in May in the family visiting room. 191 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: At the difference, I mean one that I generally met. 192 00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: Hey man, I met him in the legal visiting room, 193 00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: which is quiet cages. I mean it's not quiet. It's 194 00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:12,120 Speaker 1: nothing in St. Quyton is quiet. But the family visiting 195 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: room has families, has kids, has laughter, has yelling and crying. 196 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 1: There's many many that's bigger. So I was in this 197 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 1: room with him and we were talking, and I was 198 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: looking around and I was seeing what to me was 199 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 1: so sad. It was all these children and wives, their 200 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: girlfriends and parents and brothers and sisters who on Christmas 201 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:45,200 Speaker 1: had come to visit the person that they loved in prison. Uh. 202 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 1: They're chained when they walk in there, they're locked in 203 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 1: this cage. And it was heartbreaking to me, and I 204 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: just started to say something to Jervis. I started to say, 205 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: oh my god, this is so sad, these poor people 206 00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:04,559 Speaker 1: having to come see the person that they loved in 207 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: president on death row on Christmas. And just then Jarvis, 208 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: you know, he had this like light as he was 209 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:15,079 Speaker 1: looking around the room and what he saw. He said, 210 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: look at the love in this room. Uh, look at 211 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: the love. You know, these fathers with their children, their girlfriends, 212 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 1: their wives, their parents. And suddenly I realized I saw 213 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:29,960 Speaker 1: through Jervis's eyes, and I got it, and it was 214 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,320 Speaker 1: moving to me. I know you're not a Buddhist, but 215 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: I assume there was a pretty high learning curve to 216 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: tell his story, the story of a of a true 217 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 1: Buddhist was that intimidating. Yeah. I had, you know, a 218 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: very very very shallow idea of knowledge about what it 219 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: what Buddhism is. And I was told by you know, 220 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: Jervis's friend and teacher, Pami Schodren that she thought, ultimately 221 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: it was a really good thing that someone who wasn't 222 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,560 Speaker 1: to Buddhist came in to tell the story because I 223 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 1: came into this in the same way Jarvis came into 224 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: it not only not a Buddhist but cynical religion and 225 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: spiritualism and spirituality. And so I was guided into Buddhism, 226 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: understanding Buddhism just like he was. And he didn't did 227 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: his teachers did it. Because I had a lot of 228 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 1: conversations with his teachers, and I came to understand. I mean, 229 00:14:24,720 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: I never went to the formal religion of Buddhism, and 230 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 1: not at the Jarvis I don't think. I mean, I 231 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: think I too was moved by the stories and the 232 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: cons and and the experience just the just the Buddhist 233 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: perspective on life that has to do with recognizing suffering, 234 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 1: connecting with other people, realizing a responsibility to try to 235 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: alleviate suffering when we do see it. I mean, I 236 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: got all that. By the end, I really understood it. 237 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,240 Speaker 1: And I still can't tell you the names of you know, 238 00:14:56,280 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: the various the Buddhism, the incarnations and all that, and 239 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 1: and but I got the essence. And Jarvis told me 240 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: that Buddhist is there for anybody. Jarvis's first introduction to 241 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: the tenants of Buddhism arrived, not coincidentally, the day after 242 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: the State of California had officially sentenced him to death. 243 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: Here is his memory of that life altering day and 244 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 1: excerpt from the Buddhist on death Row. The next morning, 245 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 1: breakfast was delivered as usual, and the day progressed as 246 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: if nothing had changed. Also as usual, the mail was delivered. 247 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: In the evening, Jarvis examined a large envelope from someone 248 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: named Lisa Leghorn, who, in a note explained that she 249 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: was an assistant and interpreter to chag dud Toolkul Rinpoche, 250 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: the Buddhist llama Jarvis had written two months before. Leghorn 251 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 1: wrote that Rinpoche was glad that Jarvis had reached out 252 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 1: to him, and she referred to a small book in 253 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: the package entitled Life in Relation to Death, which contained 254 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: a transcript of a talk by the Lama. Read it, 255 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: she said, see if it speaks to you. Jarvis picked 256 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:16,359 Speaker 1: the book up and was instantly transfixed. On the first page, 257 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 1: the llama described death as a subject people often ignore 258 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: or think about frivolously, as if it were no big deal. 259 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 1: Then the author wrote, this is a nice theory until 260 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: one is dying, then experience and theory differ, he continued. 261 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: Then one is powerless and everything familiar is lost. One 262 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 1: is overwhelmed by a great turbulence of fear, disorientation, and confusion. 263 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: For this reason, it is essential to prepare well in 264 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,239 Speaker 1: advance for the moment when the mind and body separate. 265 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: Jarvis closed the book and breathed deeply. A familiar, choking 266 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 1: emotion welled up in him. Anguish, but he read on. 267 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:11,080 Speaker 1: The teacher said that all people should prepare for death, 268 00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: and one approach was to picture the ways they might die. 269 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:21,080 Speaker 1: He listed an airplane crash, an automobile accident, a terminal illness, 270 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 1: and being stabbed by a mugger. He didn't mention the 271 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: gas chamber. Another approach was called meditative contemplations. Jarvis read 272 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,400 Speaker 1: through them quickly until he got to one that made 273 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: him shudder. People should ask themselves two questions every night 274 00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:44,919 Speaker 1: before bed. If I die tonight in my sleep, what 275 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 1: have I done with my life? Have I been of benefit? 276 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 1: Or have I caused harm? Jarvis needed no time to 277 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,400 Speaker 1: ponder his answer. He knew that he'd benefited no one, 278 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:05,119 Speaker 1: and he'd caused immeasurable harm. He read all night. Dawn 279 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: was breaking as he turned the final page, but he 280 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 1: was wide awake. He didn't believe in omens, but he 281 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: reeled at the thought that during his first day on 282 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: death Row, the mail had brought him a guide to dying. 283 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: Biographer David Chef continues, even though I still not a 284 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: Buddhist side get it. It's kind of so useful to me. 285 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: The less of the Buddhism are useful to me. Meditation 286 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 1: this profound. I didn't get that either until I heard 287 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: about Jarvis's journey into meditation and learned how it really 288 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,560 Speaker 1: changed his life. So all that I took away from experience. 289 00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,280 Speaker 1: What has impacted you the most in learning the lessons? 290 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,479 Speaker 1: Is it the meditation specif? Well, you know, meditation is profound. 291 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:04,199 Speaker 1: But the reason that it was profound to me is 292 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: when it's the same, it's sort of the message overall 293 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: that Jarvis learned them that I learned from Jarvis's experience, 294 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: which is that my idea of meditation when you sit 295 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: with your eyes closed and your legs crossed and your 296 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: spine straight, and you sort of bliss out, you know, 297 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:24,000 Speaker 1: to time out. It's a way to get away from 298 00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: the rest of your stresses in your life. But what 299 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: Jarvis learned the hard way and I ended up learning 300 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: the hard way, is that's not what happens. I mean, yeah, 301 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: there are those moments, but also you know, you're if 302 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 1: you're opening your mind, you're opening your mind to whatever 303 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: is inside you. Some of what is inside you is 304 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 1: pain and heard and trauma. And you know, this lesson 305 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: that I saw that was a result of meditation, it's 306 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:56,560 Speaker 1: really the ultimate was the ultimate challenge, I think for 307 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: Jarvis and for me, which is, you know, be beyond meditation. 308 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: You know, it's sort of summed with this, you know, 309 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 1: I guess in some ways that's the biggest cliche, but 310 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:09,000 Speaker 1: it says, you know, the only way out is through, 311 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: which means, you know, the only way to get through 312 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: the traumas that we experience, the only way to move 313 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:18,399 Speaker 1: forward in our lives, to be better, to be a 314 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,679 Speaker 1: better person, to have relationships that are more meaningful. You 315 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 1: can't run from it. You got to go back into it, 316 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: and it is hard and it is painful, but that 317 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,879 Speaker 1: is what I was left with more than anything. So 318 00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: he when I was talking with him when he was 319 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 1: on his most recent hunger strike, I was asking him 320 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: you know, does he pass the time through meditation? And 321 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: his answer was, he's not sitting down and meditating. He said, 322 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: he wants to be fully present. He doesn't want to escape, 323 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 1: he doesn't want to escape the experience. And I just thought, 324 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 1: holy cow, that is not the ultimate. And that's you know, 325 00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: that's what he said to me at one point two. 326 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,560 Speaker 1: I mean, he was meditating for a period of time, 327 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:06,199 Speaker 1: hours every day, but at one point he said to 328 00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: me that he meditates all the time or never, whichever 329 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: however you want to look at it. But it is 330 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,399 Speaker 1: being present in that moment, and that's something that you 331 00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: learned from meditation. And I think that's probably the goal 332 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: of being a Buddhist is or or a meditating whatever 333 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: it is, is that when it becomes who you are 334 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,320 Speaker 1: and you start to perceive the world and feel the 335 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: world and experience the world in a very different way. 336 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:31,359 Speaker 1: And I guess I feel like, you know, that's a 337 00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: good observation that you know, the way you just explained it. Yeah, 338 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: I have found it, and I know you and I 339 00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:41,280 Speaker 1: have discussed the fact that and it's I've talked to 340 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 1: so many people interviewing them for the podcast that to 341 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: know Jervis is to love Jarvis and and people use 342 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 1: that exact phrase. What do you think it is about 343 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: him that that makes him such a compelling central character? Well, 344 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,240 Speaker 1: I love Jarvis, and love is not something that I 345 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: come to you never have in my life, and it 346 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,200 Speaker 1: is you know, about the relationship that grew and developed 347 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: over time with somebody who was as open and gentle 348 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:18,119 Speaker 1: and kind and loving um as anyone. And you know, 349 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,200 Speaker 1: I came in there as the interviewer, you know, the 350 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: journalist to record his story. But I mean this great 351 00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 1: friend who I still consider one of the dearest friends 352 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,439 Speaker 1: in my life, and the relationship was reciprocal. You know, 353 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: I was there when Jarvis had some of the most 354 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,399 Speaker 1: challenging times that he's had in the last you know, 355 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: five six years, huge disappointments related to relationships and big, 356 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 1: big disappointments related to his appeals, his cases, you know, 357 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,440 Speaker 1: his case moving forward. That Jarvis has been there for me, 358 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: uh in so many different circumstances. You know, I lost 359 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: a dear friend and he was the one that was 360 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: on the phone checking in with me. I was sick 361 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: for a while and he was checking with me as well. 362 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,760 Speaker 1: And even when I was well enough to go visit again. 363 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: That was always the first thing, you know, and he 364 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,200 Speaker 1: did it sometimes he teach me about it. You know, God, 365 00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: you look terrible. He was letting going on with you. 366 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: But it was very genuine and very open, and it 367 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: was this relationship. And that's how I guess, you know, 368 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: relationships develop, and closeness develops, and friendships developed, and eventually, 369 00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: you know, it was a very very few because of 370 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,000 Speaker 1: the combination of those things. And maybe there's something else 371 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: that I don't fully understand. It is this chemistry or 372 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: there is a spiritual connection that it does become a 373 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 1: different kind of relationship and it does feel different. And yes, 374 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 1: it said Jervis is connected with others and family. My 375 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 1: son Jasper went to visit him. My wife Karen went 376 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,600 Speaker 1: to visit him, and she fell in love with him. 377 00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: Do Dandy writes him these beautiful letters. Jasper, Jasper and 378 00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:53,880 Speaker 1: Jarvis communicate by letters and occasionally Virus will be able 379 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,480 Speaker 1: to call him and there's a real connection. And my 380 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: son Nick was going to go see him too, but 381 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 1: because Dick was once arrested when he was and he 382 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 1: was he was a lot of good. But you know, 383 00:24:03,560 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: he does feel like you know. I know other people 384 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:06,520 Speaker 1: have said this to you, but he feels like a 385 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: part of our family and he always will Yeah, yeah, 386 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:14,959 Speaker 1: the same with me. He always asked whenever he signs 387 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: off the ice, is how's big Mama? What he calls 388 00:24:19,240 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: my mother? So cool? Yeah, and he does. He cares. 389 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: At one time. I mean, this is probably not even 390 00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: in parts to tell, but quickly I was sitting my 391 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: father in law. Caron's parents are a hundred and ninety 392 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: four years old, respectively, and one time he called him. 393 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:40,159 Speaker 1: I was talking to my in law and I was 394 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:42,119 Speaker 1: going to call him back, but then I said, um, 395 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:46,400 Speaker 1: I took his call, and I said, hey, because they've 396 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: heard stories about Jars three years, I always asked you 397 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:49,840 Speaker 1: about him, and I put him on speaker phone, and 398 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,359 Speaker 1: it was absolutely the greatest playing. Mother in law his 399 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: hysterical and she she was saying, God, I wish you 400 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,040 Speaker 1: could come over for dinner tonight, and when you get 401 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: out of there, I mean to cook you whatever. My 402 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: mother said the same thing. So we're gonna have to 403 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:12,640 Speaker 1: have a giant freedom Schmorgh board. Next week we'll hear 404 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,119 Speaker 1: Jarvis's side of the story and why he agreed to 405 00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: give David Cheff, a perfect stranger at the time unfettered 406 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: access to his private life. Audio excerpts courtesy of Simon 407 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: and Schuster. Audio from The Buddhist on Death Row by 408 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: David Cheff, read by Michael Boatman, Copyright by David Cheff, 409 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: used with permission of Simon and Schuster, Inc. The Buddhist 410 00:25:34,359 --> 00:25:37,680 Speaker 1: on Death Row is out in paperback this week. This 411 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: episode was written and produced by Donni Fazzari and myself 412 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: Corny Cole. Our theme song sentenced his compliments of the 413 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: band Stick Figure from their album Set in Stone. Stu 414 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 1: Sternbach composed the original music. Nate Dufort did the sound design. 415 00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: For more information on Jarvis and to find out how 416 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: you can follow his case and support his cause, please 417 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,240 Speaker 1: visit free Jarvis dot org. For more podcasts. For my 418 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 419 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.