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Speaker 1: This is the meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.

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Speaker 2: Listeningdcast, you can't predict anything.

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Speaker 1: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 1: for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every

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Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 1: dot com. F I R S T L I T

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Speaker 1: E dot com fills your machine on machines on how long.

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Speaker 2: Has it been on?

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Speaker 3: Long enough?

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Speaker 2: Let's we'll start it right where I said. Is it on? Great?

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Speaker 2: I'm holding my hands right here? Uh uh?

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Speaker 1: Who's the kid? That's a kid sent this in? I

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Speaker 1: call him a kid. Yeah, he's like said age I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Called a Musky Manifesto Observer number five, September eighteenth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three.

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Speaker 4: The Musky Dossier.

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Speaker 1: A lot of mail comes in. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: this email got sent me, but I had it printed off,

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Speaker 1: which makes it seem more thing.

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Speaker 2: It's from a kid.

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Speaker 1: It's a manifesto full of photos and everything, and it

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Speaker 1: has to do with one of my favorite pet peeves,

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Speaker 1: which is the latest the new craze of the new

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Speaker 1: musky craze, like Musky two point zero.

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Speaker 3: This is something that you've made up.

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Speaker 1: No, yes, my as I was just saying before Phil

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Speaker 1: turned the machine on. My maternal grandfather was a Musky fisherman.

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Speaker 1: Now back then you just went fishing muskies. Now it's

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Speaker 1: this whole thing of like they treat them like they're

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Speaker 1: like people, treat them like they're like pets. They got

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Speaker 1: all these strains, they turn them out. There's like they're

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Speaker 1: they're like, it's it's rotten. Real guys that have gotten

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Speaker 1: his persnickety is is UH catch and release trout anglers? Well,

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Speaker 1: supposedly super interested in the well being of the fish,

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Speaker 1: but not so interesting that you wouldn't try to jab

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Speaker 1: a big hook in its lip.

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Speaker 4: A lot of the recent UH enthusiasm comes from the

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Speaker 4: fly fishing crowd. No, yes from US muskies.

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Speaker 1: Yes, maybe you cast out a big lure, you get close,

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Speaker 1: you do the figure eight, they do that with you.

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Speaker 1: You get mad if someone is mean to one.

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Speaker 5: All I can say is, if you're new timeline is

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Speaker 5: my entire life.

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Speaker 3: It maybe which made five years. This is an example

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Speaker 3: of that just came about came into my universe and

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Speaker 3: now I'm interested in it, and so it's musky.

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Speaker 1: Geologic time, this whole thing of like, oh, did you

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Speaker 1: hear that in Dickerson Lake they released the quad four

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Speaker 1: strain three quad four strains.

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Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know about this either.

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Speaker 1: I'm making up the words, and I guarantee there's a

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Speaker 1: Dickerson Lake though, Brandon, are you aware.

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Speaker 2: Of when was musky one point? Oh, I've caught one

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Speaker 2: old day, the old days forty maternal grandfather, and then

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Speaker 2: there was a hiatus for then there was.

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Speaker 1: A break, and then there was just like fishing, and

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Speaker 1: then all of a sudden it became like that the

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Speaker 1: catch and release, the really precious, persnickety, mean spirited catch

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Speaker 1: and release school of thought got moved away from brown

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Speaker 1: trout and laid.

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Speaker 2: Upon the muskie. Interesting, and now brown trout are being

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Speaker 2: given a break? Are the col people.

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Speaker 1: Are still mean to give your mean to a brown trout?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, And I guess there's a lot of top water action.

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Speaker 5: There's some similar baits, just similar sizing, folks going nighttime activities,

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Speaker 5: all that stuff, going after both species.

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Speaker 2: Fish with a thousand. I caught thou musky chet caught

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Speaker 2: some muskies caught one musky in my life by tiger musk.

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Speaker 2: No musky musky? What strain? I didn't ask it? You

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Speaker 2: turn it right out? It strained the line. I turned

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Speaker 2: it loose. We took one photo. I was fishing a

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Speaker 2: little spinner bait. Thought I might pick up a walleye

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Speaker 2: and a little lake in Wisconsin, and thought I had

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Speaker 2: a log. Wasn't a log. Fought it for about twenty

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Speaker 2: five minutes, and my dad got in a net. This

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Speaker 2: is a little We were in a little john boat

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Speaker 2: we rented for twenty five bucks on this this lake

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Speaker 2: in Wisconsin. We just thought we were going to mess around,

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Speaker 2: and we were messing around. Didn't think we'd catch a musky.

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Speaker 2: And my picture's still on the wall of that place. Really,

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, how big was it? I don't know, forty

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Speaker 2: five inches. We didn't have we didn't have a scale,

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Speaker 2: we didn't have a ruler. It was a nice fish.

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Speaker 1: The anger hearing from his Brendan Rundy here from North Carolina.

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Speaker 1: He's a marine scientist.

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Speaker 2: What did I say wrong?

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Speaker 6: His last name?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 7: He took me sorry, I stand corrected.

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Speaker 5: I will think that's right.

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Speaker 2: That's that's my uncle. Actually nice, really.

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Speaker 5: So now now I'm real dubious about this supposed fish

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Speaker 5: he's got on the wall.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a marine scientist of the Nature Conservancy, and

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Speaker 1: he's not going to put it this way, but he's

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Speaker 1: here to talk about what I'm what I suspect to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit of a deal with the devil

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Speaker 1: on on alternative energy.

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Speaker 2: Definitely not how I'm going to put it.

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Speaker 1: No, not the devil, but but uh a fatal compromise,

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Speaker 1: a fatal compromise. But I don't want to lose sight

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Speaker 1: of the muskie manifesto. I don't want to spend ton.

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Speaker 2: Of time on it.

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Speaker 1: So this kid and his dad and his grandpa are

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Speaker 1: outfish and muskies muscle lunges, and they catch a whopper.

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Speaker 1: They catch the world record musky by a good stretch.

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Speaker 4: Well, let's hear how good of a stretch? You gotta

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Speaker 4: have details if you're talking world record man.

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Speaker 2: They catch it.

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Speaker 1: This kid that wrote in his observer number.

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Speaker 2: Five okay out of some undetermined number of observers.

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Speaker 1: Um, okay. He even tells us the Linnean name.

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Speaker 2: He socks mass quiner g.

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Speaker 1: Seventy two pound musky. All kinds of witnesses they weigh it.

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Speaker 1: They put it on a thing. They mayn't handle it.

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Speaker 2: They're mean to it. The rub off, rub the slime

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Speaker 2: off it, turn it loose. Uh. They go and they

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Speaker 2: tell a guy.

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Speaker 1: They go and tell a guy at the dock about

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Speaker 1: The guy says man, the musky community. I wouldn't even

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Speaker 1: put it out there because the muskie community will come

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Speaker 1: after you.

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Speaker 2: Anyways.

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Speaker 1: The I g F A kicks him off because they

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Speaker 1: weighed the fish on a boat.

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Speaker 4: M A lot of technicalities with the idea.

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Speaker 1: The muskie has to be weighed on dry land.

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Speaker 3: So you have to kill the fish. Basically, how are

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Speaker 3: you going to pull that off with that in a

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Speaker 3: regular old boat?

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Speaker 5: You have that cradle and then you like nurse the

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Speaker 5: thing all the way.

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Speaker 2: He's got all these photos.

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Speaker 3: More stress, more stress.

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Speaker 2: Here's the fish here.

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Speaker 1: But one thing he gets into is he gets in

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Speaker 1: it probably weighed more of course, because they will. They

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Speaker 1: had to certify their scale after the fact. The scale

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Speaker 1: they certified after the fact was dead on balls at

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Speaker 1: fifty but a seventy five pound weight when they certified

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Speaker 1: their scale is seventy five pound weight rang in at

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Speaker 1: seventy two fifty.

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Speaker 2: Seventy two five.

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Speaker 1: Kicked off, and this is his story, kicked off because

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Speaker 1: they didn't weigh it.

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Speaker 2: On land.

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Speaker 1: Then he gets into a bunch of other really big

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Speaker 1: musky that had been disqualified for all kinds of reasons.

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Speaker 5: Is there consensus for that rule? Is like, since you

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Speaker 5: aren't on a solid ground, that.

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Speaker 2: The boat sinks, the certified.

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Speaker 5: The certified scale isn't as accurate. That's that's the reason.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but he's pointing out. Imagine if you'd

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Speaker 1: killed that fish, what you would have heard about from

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Speaker 1: the walleye, from the muskie community, which apparently is a

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Speaker 1: you know, musky two point zero.

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Speaker 4: But if you'd have killed it fifty years ago, nobody

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Speaker 4: would have cared, would have said nothing.

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Speaker 1: Now it's catched, it's now it's like what you supposed.

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Speaker 2: Hsky two point oh?

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Speaker 1: Well, just think about all the cat.

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Speaker 3: And panfish that you'd save by killing that fish.

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Speaker 1: It's a two point oh catch twenty two.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: In the old days, we hadn't name this podcast that

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Speaker 1: two point oh catch twenty two.

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Speaker 6: Title days one point oh. Now it's title Day's two

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Speaker 6: point oh.

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Speaker 2: What was your comment?

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Speaker 3: Just think about all the chipmunks and and uh small

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Speaker 3: mouth and panfish. They would have saved by killing that.

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Speaker 2: Save a perch killing musky, dont forget ducklings.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, little kid toes, stuff like that.

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Speaker 5: There's that dude up in Canada three years ago that

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Speaker 5: got smashed by a Walleye and BC tore his hand

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Speaker 5: all up.

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Speaker 3: Wiley or a musky.

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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, musky, yep, musky. Yeah, those Walleye anglers just

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Speaker 5: really perked up there, like see, we knew that fish

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Speaker 5: was bad.

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Speaker 2: We know it wasn't real lazy.

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Speaker 5: It's not just for eating Sowa's buddy.

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Speaker 1: I hear you, man, you got bone. Your grandpa got

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Speaker 1: boned by the IGFA.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a boomer.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what more to say about it.

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Speaker 8: What do you want the igf A to.

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Speaker 2: Do about it? Though? I send the guy something. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: consolation lure got away in that land. It's a catch

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Speaker 2: twenty two. What are you supposed to do?

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Speaker 4: Rules or rules?

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Speaker 3: Rules is rules?

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Speaker 1: You kill it and you're gonna hear about it from

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Speaker 1: the musky community. Two point zero. You don't kill it.

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Speaker 1: You can't be in the thing.

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Speaker 8: Would you killed it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd have made a video about it.

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Speaker 4: He'd cut it into stakes.

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Speaker 1: I'd have got out my spearfish and k ivy right

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Speaker 1: in the top of the head. Now to do it

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Speaker 1: not been like sucket musky community.

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Speaker 5: For context, I'd like to understand catch twenty one and

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Speaker 5: catch twenty three. You should come up with those.

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Speaker 2: It's a real catch twenty three. Catch twenty three exists.

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Speaker 2: It's Michael Jordan's fishing boat.

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Speaker 5: That's right. Yeah, yeah, it never gets off.

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Speaker 4: Not a musket work on the street.

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Speaker 2: Wonder people hearing this?

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Speaker 6: Crin first to April.

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Speaker 1: Oh, hey, go check out. So we got our live

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Speaker 1: tour coming up. Let me pull up the dates.

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Speaker 2: We got our live tour.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, just to remind everybody, where's my little thing?

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Speaker 6: April? What is it? Twenty second or twenty third? To May?

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Speaker 1: April twenty third, Mace, Arizona, bear with me here April

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Speaker 1: twenty four, San Diego, California, April twenty five, Anaheim, California.

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Speaker 1: April twenty seven, Sacramento, California. That winds up being a

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Speaker 1: lot of California April twenty nine, Salt Lake City, April thirty, Boise, Idaho,

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Speaker 1: May one, Missoula, Montana, which is gonna be a riot

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Speaker 1: hometown crowd having spent many a night in that theater

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Speaker 1: above it and in it.

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Speaker 4: And blow it with your elevator operator, buddy, We used

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Speaker 4: to catch pigeons below that thing.

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Speaker 1: Scoot and Newton. I'm gonna tell the story of Scoot

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Speaker 1: and Newton. May second, Spokane, May four, Portland, Oregon, Portland,

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Speaker 1: Oregon and slow Gin Fizz. If that ain't loved, then

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Speaker 1: tell me what is great tun Uh huh.

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Speaker 5: You know it's a winner When Phil laughs, I know

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Speaker 5: it about once a year something tis fancy.

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Speaker 2: The other day what was it? Yeah, there are something

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Speaker 2: caught Philsier.

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Speaker 3: That was just a great uh retain impression. Uh huh.

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Speaker 1: May five, Tacoma. Get your tickets. You can go to

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Speaker 1: the actual you can go to the meeater dot com

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Speaker 1: and you'll find a live events thing and find it there.

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Speaker 1: Or you can go to the specific theaters. But I

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Speaker 1: didn't just name the specific theaters, which makes it very tricky.

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Speaker 1: Type go to your computer and type of media, your

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Speaker 1: live you'll find it. Come check us out. It's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a ton of fun.

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Speaker 2: It's a three act show.

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Speaker 5: Bring your wife, you know, I uh is a little

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Speaker 5: in the weeds. But when we talk about reaching new

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Speaker 5: audiences with the podcast. If there's gonna there's gotta be

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Speaker 5: like a Venn diagram of when Phil laughs, mm hmm.

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Speaker 5: We're reaching new audience members. I don't know if those

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Speaker 5: people be around for a while, might pop in see

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Speaker 5: what's going on.

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Speaker 1: Like you'd have to just catch one of them to

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Speaker 1: have me walking by someone playing it like you left

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Speaker 1: your car door open at the gas station and you

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Speaker 1: left it on and some guy caught some guy like

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Speaker 1: Phil caught a little lick there. All right, Yannie, hit it,

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Speaker 1: quick hit.

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Speaker 3: If the live tour isn't it enough for you, you

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Speaker 3: can come spend If that's not enough, Yanny, for you,

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Speaker 3: three days with us and a new thing we're calling

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Speaker 3: Meat Eater Experiences. We're gonna have a lot more details

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Speaker 3: to come, but I've been instructured to do a quick

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Speaker 3: hit here about this. We're hosting a fishing trip in Venice, Louisiana,

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Speaker 3: as well as.

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Speaker 2: I get some background on that one waterfowl.

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Speaker 3: Hunt in Kansas. You have some background, I'd like.

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Speaker 2: To give some background. Oh yeah, please do the last couple.

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Speaker 1: Of years when we've been down been going down spearfish

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Speaker 1: and on spearfish and the oil rigs out of you know,

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Speaker 1: coastal Louisiana. And I fell into becoming friends with Renee,

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Speaker 1: who owns Cypress Cove Marina, and we got talking about

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Speaker 1: something fun we'd like to do, and we're gonna basically,

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Speaker 1: not basically, we're gonna take over Cypress Coved Marina.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: So we're doing a thing where he's got a house boat, condos,

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Speaker 1: a hotel, We're getting all the spots. He's got a

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Speaker 1: whole ton of charter captains that charter out of his

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Speaker 1: marina and friends and stuff. So we're getting all the boats,

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Speaker 1: all the lodging, put together food plan, and then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have meat eater crew guys there and we're doing

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Speaker 1: big fishing party, guys and gals, guys and gals, big

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Speaker 1: fishing party in shore, offshore on guide boats, hanging out

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Speaker 1: at night, cooking fish, cleaning fish.

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Speaker 3: It's gonna be a good time. Renee is gonna do

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Speaker 3: once per group is going to do a big Cajun

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Speaker 3: seafood boil, which I'm very excited about. He's so I

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Speaker 3: like people that are so into doing their type of

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Speaker 3: food that when when you meet someone that has custom

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Speaker 3: made or had someone custom made them, the thing to

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Speaker 3: cook their food in you know, it's serious and there

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Speaker 3: it's gonna be good. So we're gonna get that experience

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Speaker 3: down there. And then yeah, the waterfowl Honting in Kansas,

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Speaker 3: three different trips between November December and uh well January

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Speaker 3: first really is the last one for that hunt, so

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Speaker 3: uh check, go to go to the website. There'll be

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Speaker 3: a drop down menu under Mediator Experiences and all the details.

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Speaker 2: Will be there here shortly.

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Speaker 1: You know what I like about the waterfowl part of

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Speaker 1: it is that's gonna be the thing I need to

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Speaker 1: motivate me to finally get me.

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Speaker 2: A power plucker.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have my power plucker sent there, know

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Speaker 1: when it's all said and done on and bring that

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Speaker 1: power plucker back home.

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Speaker 3: It's good idea.

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Speaker 2: What's that kind of power plucker I want?

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Speaker 3: You know, the one that my brother in law has Now,

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Speaker 3: I think it's called the foul foul Plucker.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it?

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Speaker 3: Dude?

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Speaker 2: Do you ever be on that guy's website? Nope?

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Speaker 1: I got the nosing around there, and my neighbor, Pottery

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Speaker 1: pat he after he offered to go haves. He's on

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Speaker 1: it with me, But I don't know if I want

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Speaker 1: to like want to share. Well, hey, then you know.

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Speaker 2: Whatever, then I gotta go looking for it over his house.

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Speaker 4: So I mean, you guys live like fifty yards apart.

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Speaker 2: It's not like.

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Speaker 1: Sharing being me and powdered pad or to share everything.

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Speaker 2: Anyway.

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Speaker 5: It's I've told you where I've seen these things set up.

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Speaker 5: Eventually there's a shack that gets built around them.

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Speaker 1: Kahl was saying, because because the feather mate, the feather

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Speaker 1: management so much.

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Speaker 2: Eventually just yeah, you kind of dig it out.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you're like, boy, it doesn't really work in the

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Speaker 5: garage all the time.

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Speaker 1: That's a creeping cost if you start out with a

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Speaker 1: power plucker and then you end up with a building.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, and then you have a house that's built around well,

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Speaker 5: yeah exactly.

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Speaker 3: I think it could be modified a little bit. They're

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Speaker 3: not cheap. I'm looking at it right now on the

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Speaker 3: orbist site. There's seven hundred and thirty bucks. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: they get for him. But it makes it pretty duck

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Speaker 3: well when you do it right, you read the that

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Speaker 3: guy is so serious. People place the order with that guy.

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Speaker 3: And also, like you go place the order, all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden your phone rings. He's calling you to make

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Speaker 3: sure that you're serious about this purchase.

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Speaker 1: To be like, well, I saw you bought one of

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Speaker 1: the pluckers. Here's the deal, right, let's work together.

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Speaker 3: Uh, Cal, I could see that there could be some

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Speaker 3: feather build up, you know, I mean especially if you

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Speaker 3: I mean if you're processing you know, at fifty a day.

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Speaker 3: But I mean we processed almost twenty birds and we've

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Speaker 3: basically filled up a shot full canister shot back in

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Speaker 3: that you know, two hour period and it was full,

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Speaker 3: like you couldn't really done too many more without dumping it.

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Speaker 2: But it worked, said two hours for twenty birds.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I'm guessing. I mean we had kids

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Speaker 3: there that are, you know, helping and messing around, but

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Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, the keys, it's got to be a

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Speaker 3: dry bird.

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Speaker 1: Well, you gotta read more. I started reading more than

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Speaker 1: you read.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I just send that.

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Speaker 5: Guy a picture of my thumb, say like, is it

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Speaker 5: going to be better than this?

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Speaker 3: I do better, but we'll do faster. That's one hundred

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Speaker 3: percent sure, petition buddy, I want.

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Speaker 2: One of those things still.

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Speaker 1: Man, I'm gonna have it sent there so when we're

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Speaker 1: doing our when we're doing our mediator experiences deal, we

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Speaker 1: can people can power.

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Speaker 3: Pluck totally go home with a bunch of birds.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully you got more to say.

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Speaker 3: No, I think that's uh, that's good for it.

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Speaker 7: Off.

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Speaker 1: Quick hit spots are available to the general public starting

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Speaker 1: the opening day of bear season.

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Speaker 3: And turkey season in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 1: April fifteen.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that? What's tax day? Yep?

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Speaker 6: That's it?

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, so when you go to either send your

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Speaker 1: money in or file for your money.

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Speaker 3: Who was it that had a horse named Iris because

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Speaker 3: she was born on April fifteenth? You remember that?

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Speaker 2: No, I thought that was a cute ir s.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, April fifteen spotsor availed again. We got our trip

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Speaker 1: fishing Louisiana in shore. Offshore, you can even go jug

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Speaker 1: and catfish.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, man, I would have gone way deeper, but

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Speaker 3: I was asked to do a quick hit. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: we got all kinds of things we can talk about

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Speaker 3: for this trip or.

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Speaker 2: Or ducks and geese and Kansas. Yeah, and every night

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Speaker 2: there's gonna be a long We're gonna give a long.

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Speaker 1: Lecture about something.

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Speaker 3: Every dight.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna read this Musky Manifesto with everybody present.

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Speaker 3: That's right, and that's optional. If you don't want to

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Speaker 3: stay for that. You can just go get some rest

395
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Speaker 3: because the next day is going to be another big

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Speaker 3: day of hunting or fish.

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Speaker 1: And so there's a thing we spent a lot of

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Speaker 1: time on a uh something blowing up out a blow

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Speaker 1: I don't know, blowing up that might be over selling it.

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Speaker 1: A problem in Wisconsin that is just disconcerting to me.

401
00:20:55,200 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to me for my whole life, I had no

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Speaker 1: idea you can't spear a Northern pike in wiscon which

403
00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,800
Speaker 1: to me seems like the pike spirit. If you'd have

404
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,680
Speaker 1: said to me before I found this out, if you

405
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 1: said to me, what is the pike spear in the

406
00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 1: state in America? I would have just said, Eh, Wisconsin

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Speaker 1: is there?

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00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 4: Is it because of Musky two point zero?

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Speaker 1: Is that what they don't who's driving it right now?

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's what I thought.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who is driving it. Prior to Muski

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Speaker 1: two point oh, you cannot spear a Northern pike in Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: You can spare a sturgeon in Wisconsin. Can't spear a

414
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Speaker 1: Northern pike Why because they can't trust one. They think

415
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,040
Speaker 1: pike spears will get all the Biggins and they think

416
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Speaker 1: that a pike spearer cannot tell the difference between a

417
00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:49,240
Speaker 1: northy in a muscle lunch man.

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Speaker 4: It's like looking into an aquarium at the zoo.

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Speaker 1: He can you can trust Americans. You can trust Americans

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Speaker 1: to tell the difference between a button buck and a spike.

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00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,520
Speaker 1: You can trust Americans to tell if a deer has

422
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Speaker 1: three times on one side. You can trust an American

423
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 1: to tell a hen pintail from a drake pintail in

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00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:18,760
Speaker 1: the early season when they don't have their breeding plumage.

425
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Speaker 1: You can tell Americans how to tell a hen pheasant

426
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Speaker 1: from a rooster pheasant. You can trust Americans how to

427
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: catch a pike and not mistakenly, or catch a muskie

428
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Speaker 1: and not mistake it for a pike.

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Speaker 2: What else do you trust Americans to do?

430
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Speaker 5: I think I think you know fast moving waterfowls. Fantastic example.

431
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 2: For sure, you brought up hen versus rooster pheasant. How

432
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Speaker 2: about a sharp tail and a hen pheasant when they

433
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: get up into the city.

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Speaker 1: You can trust an American to tell the difference between

435
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,879
Speaker 1: a sharp tail hen and a hen pheasant. To drab

436
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 1: colored brown birds with a pointy tail, the sun in

437
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:03,520
Speaker 1: the bright sun. There's no prohibition on hunting them in

438
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,879
Speaker 1: the bright sun. Far from it, no prohibition against walking

439
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: into the sun. What else can you trust Americans?

440
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:10,479
Speaker 3: Nothing?

441
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 5: You can trus men's room from the women's room.

442
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,760
Speaker 2: You can trust Americans tell the men's well you used to.

443
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can trust Americans to not shoot a black

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00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,320
Speaker 1: bearsyle with cubs. You can trust Americans to identify a

445
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: male mountain goat. But apparently you cannot trust Americans to

446
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 1: not spear muskies while spear and pike. Therefore, the entire

447
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,920
Speaker 1: state of Wisconsin can't go pike spearing. As we explained

448
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: in the past episode, they put it to Wisconsin has

449
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: this kind of cool but widely widely celebrated and widely

450
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: displot despised.

451
00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: Way that you.

452
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,720
Speaker 1: Can get game loss change. What's it called calendar? You

453
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:53,719
Speaker 1: remember the advisory panel?

454
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:54,239
Speaker 3: Oh?

455
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, the regional like Pat Dirkins always talking about, and yeah,

456
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 5: regional advisor or yeah, there's an acronym, but it's a

457
00:24:03,040 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 5: county by county or region by region citizens Advisory Council.

458
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: So if you want to get a game a long

459
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,240
Speaker 1: Wisconsin change, you can bring it to the citizen's advisory panel.

460
00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 1: Like I'm going to get in there heavy duty as

461
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 1: a non resident because they're trying to move through the Citizens'

462
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: Advisory Panel process. They're trying to move youth turkey in

463
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 1: Wisconsin from two days to four days, which I firmly support,

464
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,720
Speaker 1: and the Wisconsin public supports that. What the Wisconsin public

465
00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: is uneasy about is youth deer going from two days

466
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: to four days, but they're supportive of it going four

467
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: days for turkey.

468
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,200
Speaker 4: There's a lot of people that gripe about those youth

469
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 4: hunting seasons.

470
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 2: I don't understand. Well, if I didn't have kids, i'd

471
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 2: hate them.

472
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 1: Well, I was staying there to day. If we had

473
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: a youth elk, I was saying, I would have never

474
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: gotten the vast ectomy. I said that on the show.

475
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 5: As a man with no children. Here in Gallason County,

476
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 5: here we go, I pay out the nose for your kids'

477
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 5: education already.

478
00:24:59,000 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 2: I don't know.

479
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 5: I don't know why they also need to beat me

480
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 5: out into the field.

481
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:05,840
Speaker 2: Do you know what I mean?

482
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:06,719
Speaker 3: Pick one or the other.

483
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 4: How's that You've had plenty opportunity at this point in

484
00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,640
Speaker 4: your life. Those kids need a little opportunity to.

485
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:13,679
Speaker 2: Okay, help me out here.

486
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:24,119
Speaker 1: Whoa I got my glasses on. Who can help me

487
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:24,680
Speaker 1: out finding this?

488
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:26,240
Speaker 3: Well?

489
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 2: How did the vote break?

490
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,760
Speaker 1: So they put it to the citizens Advisory Panel and

491
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 1: it got shot down kind of. They said, do you

492
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:39,480
Speaker 1: support pike spearing, and how in the world could someone

493
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: say no?

494
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 2: But here's what happened.

495
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 1: They had a nearly even vote of yes no, and

496
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:56,880
Speaker 1: you had the option to say no opinion, okay, which

497
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,800
Speaker 1: was so close that it actually advanced to the Conservation

498
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: the Conservation Congress in Wisconsin after a somewhat anemic public input,

499
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:13,159
Speaker 1: meaning evenly broke yes no. I think it was slightly no.

500
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: But then there's all these people that copped out with

501
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: a no opinion. So then it goes to the Conservation Congress,

502
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: and the Conservation Congress in Wisconsin says thirty five to

503
00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 1: twenty eight, Yes, we want a pike speerience season. But

504
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,840
Speaker 1: as this guy puts it, the DNR Wisconsin's now dragging

505
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: their feet. This guy that writes in about it wrote

506
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 1: this letter. Myself and the two thousand other individuals I

507
00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: represent as part of the Wisconsin Dark House Angling Association

508
00:26:55,080 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: and the Powerful Fish Decoy Association National, The Powerful National

509
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: Fish Decoy Association are going to continue the fight. So

510
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: it's like it's it's a pot boiler in Wisconsin.

511
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,679
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, I mean, what what is the risk? Like,

512
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 5: are you aware of any long studies that examine the

513
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 5: abuse of overtake by spear fishermen during the ice season,

514
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 5: like a guy committed to a fish shack versus six

515
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 5: tip ups?

516
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like that's what I was going to say, Like

517
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:41,399
Speaker 4: I've I've speared pike and you're you're not out fishing.

518
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 4: The guy's got a whole set of tip ups out

519
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:48,359
Speaker 4: like no way, yeah, and you're sitting there and like, yeah,

520
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 4: maybe you're targeting bigger pike.

521
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: But I'm not aware of any studies, and I could

522
00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 2: see an argument for going to lake by lake management. Yeah,

523
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,560
Speaker 2: well yeah, of course, depending on you know, the population

524
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 2: status of muskies or the presence even of muskies in

525
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:03,360
Speaker 2: a given lake.

526
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be a great compromise. Of course if there's

527
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: like big treasure. You know, what was the strain of

528
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:15,399
Speaker 1: muskies also quad for strain. So he as when the

529
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: guy or the guy that we communicate about this issue,

530
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: when he wrote his letter being like, hey, what gives

531
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: the Conservation Congress supported and advanced it. How come Noah movement.

532
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 1: The department came back to him. Department, the department, this

533
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: is the this is the Fishing Game Department Wisconsin d

534
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: and R coming back to him. The Department does not

535
00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: plan to advance this proposal as a d n R

536
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: rule change. Question spearing Northern Pike through the ice may

537
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: raise user conflicts with other ice fishers.

538
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 5: Since I may not right, I mean sorry, go ahead.

539
00:28:56,680 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: Since implementation of a rule change in nineteen nine twenty

540
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: three that eliminated the January and February spearing seasons on

541
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 1: the Monominee in Brule Rivers, no winter spearing has been

542
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: allowed in Wisconsin, with the exception of ice spearing on

543
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 1: Lake Superior. Spearing can be selective for the largest pike

544
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: in the population a lot of maize and cans.

545
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 2: So, if I get that argument correctly, he's saying that

546
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 2: because spearfishing is so selective of the largest pike, then

547
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 2: it could have negative population consequences.

548
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,040
Speaker 1: Now it's other guys, bitch, and that they're going to

549
00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:37,000
Speaker 1: spear all the big pike.

550
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the implication, right.

551
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:42,560
Speaker 5: It's like in your four foot chunk of a how

552
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 5: many acre lake, your little window that you see you're

553
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 5: going to be selective within that four foot chunk out

554
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,640
Speaker 5: of one hundred and fifty eight acres.

555
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 2: But other states allow the spearing of northern pike. Oh yeah,

556
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: have we seen across the northern tier? Have we seen

557
00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 2: a truncation of the size distribution in lakes where spearing

558
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:01,760
Speaker 2: northern pike is allowed.

559
00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: I think the problem with that is it's been historically

560
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,320
Speaker 1: it's just always been historically present. But what I can

561
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: tell you can study the dickens out of is the

562
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: fact that there ain't nobody out spearing pike. Yeah, a

563
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 1: little bit. It's like a it's not hurting anything. Yeah,

564
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: he goes on, the department goes on. There is also

565
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 1: concern with spearers mistaking muske Lunge for Northern pike on

566
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 1: water bodies. We're both Congeners.

567
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 2: What's that mean? Same genus?

568
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,240
Speaker 1: We're both congenders, reside Congeners.

569
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 2: That's what that means. Con generics. Yeah, good thing you're here.

570
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 3: That's great.

571
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, congeners.

572
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:43,719
Speaker 2: Congeners are congenerics. Yeah, same genus ESOCHS E S O X.

573
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:49,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna start saying that all the time all the time.

574
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: Sometimes I get a word like that to write it

575
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: on my hand for a few days and then then

576
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: I got it.

577
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 2: Then I got it down.

578
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 1: While the public input for the twenty twenty three advice

579
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: requestion was fairly close, more people did not support this proposal,

580
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 1: with three thousand, one hundred and forty three in favor

581
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: and three thousand, three hundred and fifty five opposed. We

582
00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: just don't govern that way.

583
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 3: You know. It's a buddy of mine.

584
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 5: He's a retired railroader out of Missoula, loves spear and

585
00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 5: pike has only to my knowledge, speared maybe a handful

586
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 5: in many, many seasons. Because he is actively selecting for

587
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:39,120
Speaker 5: a huge pike. He has one pike mounted on his

588
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 5: wall in his house, and it does not matter if

589
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 5: you've been through that door a thousand times or for

590
00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 5: the very first time. Eventually he'll be like, did you

591
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 5: see the pike? And you're like, yep, gam it's still.

592
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 2: There, Like how did he get that one? With a spirit?

593
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:59,200
Speaker 5: Yep, spearin through the ice. But he's like, he would

594
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 5: be the and this is an invasive species in this lake.

595
00:32:02,440 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 5: It's it's the lake that you can underwaters spearfish for

596
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 5: in western Montana. He would be he would raise Holy

597
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:16,479
Speaker 5: hell if anybody decided to eradicate the pike from that

598
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 5: system because he loves that species so much. So that's

599
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 5: just kind of like a random selection of dark house spearfishermen.

600
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 5: They're not or this particular person, right, he's letting every

601
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 5: fish go. Yeah, and he's up there all the time.

602
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 5: And like the economic impacts that we always talk about

603
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 5: people who do stuff like this, right, it's it's a

604
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 5: weird thing. The other thing that is like worth pointing

605
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: out here that's kind of a nowhere type of deal

606
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 5: is like you want to talk to about people who

607
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 5: discuss climate change and the impacts of that, talk to spearfishermen.

608
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 5: I'm sorry, ice fisherman, ice anglers. Yeah, the catch is

609
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,760
Speaker 5: going down. They didn't ice fish this year the amount

610
00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 5: of days, right, they didn't. They didn't get out at all.

611
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:09,520
Speaker 5: But that could be a reason for the d NR

612
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 5: to be like, well, why would we put in the

613
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 5: expense of rewriting the rags, uh for something that's trending

614
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 5: downward anyway?

615
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:20,239
Speaker 2: Uh, Yeah, I'm the idea on that.

616
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: Like, I grew up in big time pike country in Michigan.

617
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 2: We fished. That was our primary ice. Now one of

618
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: our primary ice.

619
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: Is that well, let me put this way, that was

620
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 1: our only ice, big game fish that we concentrated on.

621
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,280
Speaker 1: You could spear, you could tip up, and you want

622
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 1: to see some bloody ice, go out there on a

623
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: big tip up day. If you were out for numbers,

624
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: running tip ups is going to give you bigger numbers

625
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: of fish.

626
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 5: Well we're weren't you saying that your your lake as

627
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 5: a kid had a bunch of dead pike all over

628
00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,280
Speaker 5: during the summertime, like people would kill them and leave them.

629
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: Is that right?

630
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, you see a lot of that, right, But that's

631
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: and that's after the bass. Oh when the lake shore

632
00:34:01,320 --> 00:34:06,480
Speaker 1: is like littered with fish that got let go with

633
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 1: a nightcrawler and its anus. Let's talk about mercury and

634
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: fish from sure.

635
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 2: Okay.

636
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:24,840
Speaker 1: The reason I want to talk about mercury and fish

637
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: is one we have a colleague of beloved colleague who

638
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,359
Speaker 1: he claims that have been mercury poisoned. I have been

639
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,160
Speaker 1: eating fish most of my life, and waters that carry

640
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: a health advisory, state health advisories.

641
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 2: I lived for a while.

642
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: In Seattle, and we would have people not eat the

643
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:50,839
Speaker 1: perch we caught because they knew that those fish had

644
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: a health advisory.

645
00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 2: People are aware of it.

646
00:34:58,000 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 1: There was just a recently an article in the New

647
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 1: York Times about you probably saw this. If we're cutting

648
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 1: if we've been so successful in cutting mercury admit what's

649
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: the word, not admissions, submission emissions, mercury emissions. If we've

650
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:22,479
Speaker 1: been so successful curbing mercury emissions, why do tuna still

651
00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:23,319
Speaker 1: have mercury in them?

652
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 2: It takes a very long time for mercury to leave

653
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:31,120
Speaker 2: the environment. It can be actually a bigger problem in

654
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 2: freshwater systems than offshore, because no one's taking anything out

655
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:41,839
Speaker 2: of stink of remote lakes in Canada, for example, Atmospheric

656
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: deposition of mercury puts mercury in that water. It's taken

657
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 2: up by algae, other phytoplankton. It enters the food chain

658
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,879
Speaker 2: that way, it works its way up into say, let's

659
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 2: say walleye are the top predator in a given lake.

660
00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,239
Speaker 2: Then if very very few people are fishing that lake,

661
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 2: harvesting fish out of that lake, the mercury never leaves.

662
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:08,680
Speaker 2: That's how the mercury has to be removed. Pretty much.

663
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 2: It's got a very long half ton, it's got a

664
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 2: very long half life, and so it just stays in

665
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 2: the system. And it's actually the lakes that are fished

666
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 2: harder that tend to have lower mercury.

667
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,080
Speaker 1: And like you're hauling the mercury out when you haul

668
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: fish way, it's.

669
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,359
Speaker 2: Them get them big muskies out of there. There's there's

670
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 2: no once it's in the food web. I mean, there's

671
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 2: not really any mitigation that can be done. It's not

672
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 2: like you can spray a lake.

673
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 4: And where's it all coming from in the first place?

674
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 4: Does industrial pollution?

675
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, fossil fuels too.

676
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: Well, how are they curbing?

677
00:36:44,760 --> 00:36:46,120
Speaker 2: I got a ton of questions about it now.

678
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 5: I thought mercury was so heavy that it just works

679
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 5: its way.

680
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,479
Speaker 2: Down in its elemental form. It's it's super dense, right,

681
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 2: But the mercury that's dangerous to animals from a toxicity

682
00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:04,439
Speaker 2: standpoint is the methylated form. Uh so, it's it's got

683
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:08,040
Speaker 2: a carbon and a couple of hydrogens on it. The

684
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: density of that molecule I don't know off the top

685
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,560
Speaker 2: of my head. But it's not like the silver liquid

686
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 2: you're thinking of in a in a thermode. The fun stuff,

687
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,000
Speaker 2: the fun stuff, Yeah, yeah, that you probably played with

688
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 2: that you and I both so I were bald played

689
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 2: with as kids in elementary school. No, that stuff has gone.

690
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 1: How have we slowed emissions? We haven't slowed fossil fuel consumption.

691
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: Well, depending on who you mean by we, we have

692
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 2: slowed fossil fuel consumption as global you globally know. How

693
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 2: have we slowed the emission of mercury? It's generally it's

694
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:48,200
Speaker 2: about uh, scrubbing procedures when those fossil fuel, when that

695
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 2: that that gas is being emitted from coal burning powers.

696
00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 2: So want to hear about clean coal or whatever? Is

697
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: that different? Uh? No, it's you're on the right track. Yeah,

698
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 2: although we're hearing less about clean coal. But yeah, but

699
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 2: that would be scrubbed where the emissions are scrubbed exactly,

700
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 2: and mercury is part of that. Okay, yep.

701
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:08,280
Speaker 1: And then they use mercury in mining applications.

702
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:09,760
Speaker 2: It's out of my pay grade.

703
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,319
Speaker 1: Okay, that's that's not making its way. I mean they

704
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: use mercury in like, you know, like leech mining. Okay,

705
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 1: But I don't know if that gets into the water system,

706
00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:22,840
Speaker 1: because everybody talks about the atmospheric mercury that shuts into your.

707
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 2: Fish yeap, And depending on the fish, it could be both.

708
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 2: It could be that that point source. You know, if

709
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 2: you're talking about a fish that's in an estuary or

710
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: close to shore, like bluefin tuna, for example, you brought

711
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: up tuna. Bluefin tuna have elevated mercury. Often they're apex predators.

712
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 2: They're eating a lot of fish that are associated with shore,

713
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: that are living in rivers and systems that might be

714
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 2: influenced by a single factory or something up upstream. But

715
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:56,360
Speaker 2: then you have fish that never come close to shore,

716
00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: like blue marlin, for example, that live in the blue

717
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,799
Speaker 2: water pelagic environment for their entire life. The mercury that's

718
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 2: in those animals is just from non point source, from

719
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 2: atmospheric deposition coming down in the rain.

720
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 1: An atmospheric deposition is global, correct. I mean, you could

721
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: go to the remotest corner of the Indian Ocean and

722
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 1: mercury rains down in that.

723
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,000
Speaker 2: You'd find a Budweiser bottle, a food line bag, and

724
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: some microplastics, and there'd be mercury there, got it, But

725
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:30,359
Speaker 2: not in.

726
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:33,000
Speaker 5: The concentration right of like the Great Lakes and its

727
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 5: heyday of the industrial output of the Industrial Revolution right.

728
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 2: Well, in general, since the nineteen seventies, mercury deposition worldwide

729
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,760
Speaker 2: has gone down largely as a result of the environmental

730
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 2: movement in North America in that time. And again a

731
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 2: little out of my depth here, but we as a

732
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 2: country put pressure on other countries to be more environmentally

733
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 2: responsible the emissions and the burning of fossil fuels, and

734
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,640
Speaker 2: that lowers atmospheric deposition of mercury too. Got it.

735
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,920
Speaker 1: So when will do you picture if current practices continue,

736
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 1: Is there a day in which all of a sudden

737
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: you notice that there's no more health advisories on the

738
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: consumption of wildfish, probably.

739
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,719
Speaker 2: Out of the lifetime of everyone in this room. Unfortunately,

740
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:30,120
Speaker 2: that's my guess. You take that long, yeah, because you

741
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 2: have some places where there's just super high concentrations, and

742
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,759
Speaker 2: you have some species that are just notorious notorious for

743
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 2: high mercury content. But we'll see, so you.

744
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 1: Can put less. Like the fact that we're putting less

745
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: of it out there is not being represented in what

746
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:50,839
Speaker 1: we're seeing when we sample fish.

747
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,319
Speaker 2: That's fair to say. No, it is being represented, because.

748
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: So I'm saying we're not seeing, like I said with

749
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: this article's point about tuna, we're putting less of it

750
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: in the sure, but we're not yet seeing less of

751
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:02,800
Speaker 1: it in our fish.

752
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,120
Speaker 2: Oh, I see. Well, So, first of all, I'll say

753
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: that in order to observe a decline in a toxic

754
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 2: kint like mercury, you have to have a really long

755
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:18,000
Speaker 2: time series of information. So, in other words, in order

756
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 2: to observe that decline, you'd have to have the data

757
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,520
Speaker 2: going back to, say, the nineteen seventies. I'm not a

758
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,319
Speaker 2: tuna guy. I love eating tuna. I'm not aware of

759
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 2: what sort of long term data sets there are for

760
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 2: tuna muscle. And we keep saying tuna, but there's all

761
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 2: these species in all these different environments. So I was

762
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,000
Speaker 2: part of a study a couple of years ago where

763
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 2: we did have a long term data set for blue

764
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,480
Speaker 2: marlin muscle that went back to the nineteen seventies, and

765
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 2: we did observe.

766
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: DeLine like who was collecked in that?

767
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 2: Like? How? Yeah, good question. So the federal government, the

768
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,279
Speaker 2: National Marine Fishery Service otherwise known as Noah Fisheries, has

769
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:54,120
Speaker 2: a laboratory in Beaufort, North Carolina, where I live, and

770
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 2: there were scientists there and at the Duke University Marine

771
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 2: Lab also in Beaufort, that began collecting muscle tissue from

772
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:08,000
Speaker 2: blue marlin in the nineteen seventies in from in fact,

773
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 2: the Big Rock Blue Marlin Tournament, which is something that

774
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 2: you've covered on this podcast. Yeah, sopist opportunistic sampling of

775
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: muscle taken from the animals that were landed in that tournament,

776
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:23,720
Speaker 2: and in the seventies also animals that were landed willy

777
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:26,399
Speaker 2: nilly and you know, just brought to shore or maybe

778
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,319
Speaker 2: in other tournaments. So there was a we had they

779
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 2: analyzed those data. Then It's not like we had crusty

780
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:37,360
Speaker 2: chunks of marlin. Maybe they were drying it or something. Okay, yeah, no,

781
00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,000
Speaker 2: they analyzed those data then, uh, and then we had

782
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:46,080
Speaker 2: there was a gap of twenty five years. And then

783
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 2: in the late nineties, scientists at that same lab, the

784
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 2: Noah Lab no Officieri's Lab in Beaufort began collecting muscle

785
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: again from blue marlin in the Big Rock Tournament. The

786
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,280
Speaker 2: NC State University Lab where I went to graduate school

787
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: in Morhead City, North Carolina, took over that sampling in

788
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 2: the early two thousands and created a long term data set.

789
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: I think the paper. The data in the paper went

790
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: up to maybe twenty twenty two, So that's what for

791
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 2: thirty year, forty year, fifty year time series. Yeah, of

792
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 2: blue marlin muscle, and there was a market decline in

793
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,440
Speaker 2: the content of total mercury and methyl mercury in that

794
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 2: muscle from the nineteen seventies to present day. Oh my god,

795
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 2: good news, good news. And the other good news is

796
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: huh for blue marlin in particular, for some reason, I

797
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: don't know if I have a good speculation here, but

798
00:43:43,719 --> 00:43:48,200
Speaker 2: for some reason, blue marlin are special in that most

799
00:43:48,239 --> 00:43:51,279
Speaker 2: of the mercury in their muscle tissue is not the

800
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 2: nasty stuff, the methylated form. For most fish, when they're

801
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 2: forming FDA EPR or forming consumption advisories, they're sampling the

802
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 2: muscle for total mercury. It's much easier year to run

803
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 2: a sample for total mercury and the muscle tissue. They're

804
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 2: coming up with an advisory at three parts per million

805
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 2: or five parts per million or whatever, just based on

806
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 2: that total mercury number, because they're assuming that all of

807
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:15,439
Speaker 2: that mercury is methyl mercury, the nasty stuff. That's true

808
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: for most fish, most of the total mercury is the

809
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,839
Speaker 2: methal form, but in blue marlin it's a fraction of

810
00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:23,880
Speaker 2: the total, which is really good from a from the

811
00:44:23,920 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 2: standpoint of consumption. Now, I'm not hoping that people are

812
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 2: going to go out and start exactly that stocks over

813
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:33,680
Speaker 2: fished and apex preaders. We don't want to take a

814
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: lot of them out of the system anyway. But but

815
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 2: you could, you could eat blue marlin. From a safety standpoint,

816
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:43,319
Speaker 2: very few of the samples in our study flirted with

817
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 2: the consumption advisory.

818
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,759
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, Steve will tell you what you can

819
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 5: and can't eat on a fisheries side of things.

820
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 2: From an authority standpoint.

821
00:44:54,440 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 5: Steve, Well, what do you mean, I mean, you're just

822
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 5: going to eat it?

823
00:44:57,560 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I will tell you my favorite quote, which

824
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: I've said thousand times. Me and Yanni were with a

825
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 1: friend of ours that likes to fish off flattheads. Yeah,

826
00:45:07,200 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: and when we asked him about his feeling about eating

827
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,000
Speaker 1: all those flattheads, he said, if I eat so, if

828
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: I catch and eat so many big flattheads that it

829
00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 1: kills me, I win.

830
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,719
Speaker 2: So somewhat fatalistic viewpoint, yeah, markedly so.

831
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:23,040
Speaker 1: But I have not.

832
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:24,280
Speaker 2: I have never.

833
00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: I've never changed my fish consumption behavior because of health advisories.

834
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,960
Speaker 1: But it nags in the back of my head the

835
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: same way when I'm eating deer meat, even if I

836
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: had to test it, if I'm eating deer meat from

837
00:45:40,360 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: areas that has like CWD, it is always in.

838
00:45:44,440 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 2: The back of my head. So have you been tested

839
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 2: for mercury? No, no intention to do so.

840
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 7: No.

841
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,279
Speaker 1: I would definitely do it. If you got a kit

842
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 1: right now, I would do it right now a kit.

843
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, not. Somebody of the bag could never.

844
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,160
Speaker 8: Be in a home test for fish meat you bring home.

845
00:46:02,040 --> 00:46:06,440
Speaker 2: Uh no, not other than from a culinary standpoint.

846
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 5: It's a centrifuge, Like, don't isn't that what you do?

847
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 5: You like put your blood samples in a centerfuge and

848
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 5: spin them up and then it separates.

849
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: I left my medical career behind a long time ago,

850
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:19,879
Speaker 2: but I know a guy in Morehead City who had

851
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,480
Speaker 2: blood drawn explicitly for a mercury test because he was wondering.

852
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 2: He's like, man, I eat a lot of fish passed

853
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,719
Speaker 2: with flying colors. That's good to hear, that's what they

854
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 2: were doing.

855
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,720
Speaker 3: I'm gonna text our doctor and we can get well.

856
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 1: Recently I texted so recently, Yanni text. We were worried

857
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: we had low tea. We asked so Yanni sent a

858
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: note to our doctor wonder about his tea, And then

859
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: a couple yes later, I have to send her a

860
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:52,839
Speaker 1: note wonder about my tea. And she's like, and I

861
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: caught her breaking the hippocratic oath because she said, are

862
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: you guys sitting around talking about testosterone?

863
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,719
Speaker 2: And I was like, who exactly? Who exactly? Referring to

864
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:07,759
Speaker 2: because I was under the depression.

865
00:47:07,760 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: This is all very secret, isn't the hippocratical do no harm?

866
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:15,080
Speaker 3: That's nothing.

867
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 2: You're thinking people's secrets, patient doctor confidence. Yeah, that's what

868
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 2: she broke.

869
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 5: Cracks who guys about Steve is Michigan or eats every

870
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,839
Speaker 5: single fish? And I think like one of the more

871
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 5: thorough fish consumption advisories comes out of the state of Michigan.

872
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 5: It seems like that's the state that has put the

873
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 5: most work into and it's based off of like the

874
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:46,239
Speaker 5: Minton state. So it's a Michigan portion, So you put

875
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 5: your hand up and that represents your fish full. And

876
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 5: then the quantity based off of your weight and size

877
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 5: is like you can have a thumb sized portion once

878
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 5: a week, or you can have a palm size portion

879
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:02,359
Speaker 5: once a month.

880
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

881
00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,200
Speaker 3: I've always Yeah, that's made me chuckle.

882
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:11,520
Speaker 1: The in Lake Washington in Seattle. I don't know what

883
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 1: it is now, but for a while the perch the

884
00:48:13,719 --> 00:48:16,799
Speaker 1: fish advisor is very specific where they would even get

885
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:21,040
Speaker 1: into sizes of fish, meaning that an example would be

886
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: there was no restriction or what not restrictions out the word.

887
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: There's no advisory on perch under twelve inches yep, but

888
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 1: perch over twelve inches carried a health advisory.

889
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they do it differently for children, men, pregnant women.

890
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 4: Montana has some real specific like size based advisories.

891
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 8: Steve, would you feed a pregnant woman mercury filled fish.

892
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 3: Along with not?

893
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 2: Would not?

894
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: Would? I? I don't know, because here's the thing about it.

895
00:48:56,680 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: Here's I don't want to spend all over I want

896
00:48:58,239 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: to talk about alternative energy.

897
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 2: Here's the thing about it.

898
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 1: You know, if you're a fisherman, everything you know, if

899
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: you if you're a fisherman and you dig into your rags,

900
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 1: you're seeing the health advisories. But when you go to

901
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: the grocery store and buy fish, you're just not that

902
00:49:17,320 --> 00:49:19,200
Speaker 1: would all carry a health advisory as well.

903
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: You've seen a lot of fresh I'm actually asking a

904
00:49:23,239 --> 00:49:25,760
Speaker 2: lot of fresh caught wild walleye at the grocery store.

905
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,240
Speaker 1: No, well, there's a there's a wild walleye commercial fishery

906
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:35,600
Speaker 1: in Ontario. Yeah, so when you go and buy that,

907
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,880
Speaker 1: or when you go to a perch fry on Friday

908
00:49:38,960 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: night in Michigan, you're not presented with the health advisory information.

909
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:45,759
Speaker 1: But if you're a fisherman, it's you get your nose

910
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: rubbed in it. So I'm like, I feel like the

911
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,600
Speaker 1: whole So for people to think that this is a

912
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 1: thing happening to fishermen, it's a thing happening to people

913
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:53,520
Speaker 1: that go to sushi restaurants.

914
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, what's yours? What do you want me?

915
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 2: Do you want it on the menu?

916
00:50:00,120 --> 00:50:03,560
Speaker 1: No, I'm saying that this is this isn't the thing about.

917
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 1: This isn't a thing for people to fish. This is

918
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:07,760
Speaker 1: a thing for people that eat fish.

919
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 2: Sure, and I I just got this thing. There's this

920
00:50:11,560 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 2: organization that does like fish.

921
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: They do fish consumption estimates twenty five years, fifty years

922
00:50:16,120 --> 00:50:19,279
Speaker 1: down the road and fish. They expect fish consumption to

923
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:24,200
Speaker 1: go up globally. So it's not like people that it's like,

924
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 1: this is what we're talking about for people that go

925
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,600
Speaker 1: and catch a waho. It's people that eat a wahoo.

926
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:32,880
Speaker 2: Yep. So I guess we need to continue to reduce emissions.

927
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 2: Ye take that, keep that mercury level down.

928
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,200
Speaker 1: But people be like, oh, you fish, you must eat

929
00:50:38,239 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 1: a lot of mercury. It's like you go out to

930
00:50:41,640 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 1: eat with your wife, you must eat a lot of mercury.

931
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 2: I wonder if, in general, there's a presumption that people

932
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 2: who fish or buy a fishing license are eating more

933
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:54,000
Speaker 2: fish than people who are going to the grocery store

934
00:50:54,000 --> 00:50:54,800
Speaker 2: to get that fish.

935
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: I think so, dude, if you're a big if you

936
00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 1: love sushi and you're going out once week and eating biggics,

937
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: the kind of stuff that people go to sushi restaurants

938
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: to eat, you're pounding a lot of mercury compared.

939
00:51:09,640 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 2: To some dude that thumps a cup of wall I know.

940
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:13,640
Speaker 3: And then trout.

941
00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 5: I mean, I hate to play in Steve's hand here,

942
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:18,120
Speaker 5: but the think of the amount of catch and release

943
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:22,360
Speaker 5: trout fishermen. We all know that the only fish that

944
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,360
Speaker 5: they're eating are coming from the grocery store.

945
00:51:26,640 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're just not.

946
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,759
Speaker 1: They're getting their mercury from down at I don't know

947
00:51:32,840 --> 00:51:35,120
Speaker 1: the sushi joint. I can't name our old sushi joint.

948
00:51:35,640 --> 00:51:39,520
Speaker 3: They got enough. Just as as one example, I think

949
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 3: if I didn't get fish from you guys or my

950
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,960
Speaker 3: in laws from both Fort North Carolina when they bring

951
00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 3: us some shrimp, we wouldn't really eat fishkill. We just don't.

952
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 3: I don't, I don't, but I don't like don't. Yeah,

953
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,840
Speaker 3: to Brendan's point, I don't know the light trying to

954
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 3: see you know, I just don't buy a lot of fish.

955
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,879
Speaker 4: I'm with you, honest, like, dude, we eat way more like.

956
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: Oh listen, I'm an outlier magnitude. All right, we're gonna

957
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:21,720
Speaker 1: not move on to where you're.

958
00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:25,279
Speaker 2: Actually an expert. Okay, but I appreciate you. You just

959
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 2: dragging you into this.

960
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,840
Speaker 5: Oh go ahead, Sorry, I just I'm like, I was

961
00:52:29,239 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 5: straining my brain to try to figure out the last

962
00:52:32,000 --> 00:52:37,319
Speaker 5: fish that I bought at a grocery store, and it

963
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,839
Speaker 5: has to get like further divided because it's like, the

964
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 5: only fish I've purchased at a grocery store is bait

965
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 5: to go catch other fish with.

966
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,360
Speaker 1: I would never buy it at a grocery store. In fact,

967
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: there's no way smell Nope, I mean, oh yes, what

968
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,680
Speaker 1: you bought right. I'll eat it all day long in restaurants,

969
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:56,520
Speaker 1: but I would never buy it at a store to

970
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 1: prepare it at home because I'm home. I just eat

971
00:52:58,360 --> 00:52:59,799
Speaker 1: it out of my freezer. But if I go to

972
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: it and there's fish, I'm probably getting the fish.

973
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:05,959
Speaker 3: Okay, back on track. Sorry.

974
00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: Brendan Runny is a marine scientist of Nature Conservancy, and

975
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 1: Krin's been really wanting to get him on because we've

976
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:19,920
Speaker 1: been wanting to talk about offshore alternative energy development and

977
00:53:19,960 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: what it might mean for fish, which led to a

978
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: broader conversation about where I wanted to have that discussion

979
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:28,520
Speaker 1: as a sort of as.

980
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 2: A example.

981
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:39,919
Speaker 1: Of the opportunities, challenges compromises around alternative energy development, which

982
00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 1: comes at a cost.

983
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 2: Fair all energy development comes at a cost, comes at

984
00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 2: a cost.

985
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 1: Now, I want to lay out something that I said.

986
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you something I said on previous

987
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 1: episodes on a previous episode when we talked about this,

988
00:53:53,800 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna let you run.

989
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 2: But I just want to tee this up.

990
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: If I was the emperor of the world, Nope. If

991
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:03,360
Speaker 1: I was the emperor of the.

992
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,799
Speaker 6: Country, the emperor everybody.

993
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,080
Speaker 1: If I was in charge of America. If I was

994
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:15,840
Speaker 1: solely in charge with America of America and my people

995
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: came to me and said, he, here's our plan on

996
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: developing currently undeveloped landscapes offshore. On shore, here's our plan

997
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 1: to take currently undeveloped landscapes and develop them for alternative

998
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:40,760
Speaker 1: energy in order to combat climate change. I would say, Man,

999
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: here's why I'm not into it. I'm not into it

1000
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,080
Speaker 1: because I fear that we're going to make these changes,

1001
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: these changes will not be enough to counteract what's happening

1002
00:54:56,920 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 1: on the Indian subcontinent in China and RU show. Okay,

1003
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:08,040
Speaker 1: we will see no net decrease in fossil fuel consumption,

1004
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: and we will have burnt up our biggest asset, which

1005
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,720
Speaker 1: is our wildlife habitat. So we'll sit. We'll have destroyed

1006
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: a bunch of wildlife habitat and seeing no difference in.

1007
00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:31,759
Speaker 2: Global average temperatures. Okay, now you go. Yeah, so a

1008
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:37,480
Speaker 2: couple of things. So we're in a climate crisis, fair.

1009
00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 1: Yes, Well, yeah we're seeing.

1010
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 3: Yes, if you're a Michigan ice fisherman, hell yeah.

1011
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:49,520
Speaker 2: We're seeing. We're seeing annual increases.

1012
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: And now I'm not I don't I don't want to

1013
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:52,759
Speaker 1: go back like what they do where they try to

1014
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:54,840
Speaker 1: go back a thousand years because we just weren't measuring

1015
00:55:54,840 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: temperature the same. But in the modern era with with

1016
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,800
Speaker 1: how we measure temperature now, we are seeing increases, and

1017
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,120
Speaker 1: there's some little blips and stuff, but generally we are

1018
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 1: seeing increased temperatures, and we're seeing impacts of increased temperatures

1019
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: on fisheries, on wildlife, on marine resources, and we're seeing

1020
00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: like some chaotic weather.

1021
00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,840
Speaker 2: Patterns, weather patterns, we're seeing rain shifts, range expansions of

1022
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:26,480
Speaker 2: many marine species, many terrestrial species for that matter. The

1023
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 2: United States is responsible for fifteen percent of the carbon

1024
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,400
Speaker 2: emissions globally. China is responsible for thirty all right, but

1025
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,479
Speaker 2: we have the leg up because we industrialized one hundred

1026
00:56:36,560 --> 00:56:40,960
Speaker 2: years before them. So we have an opportunity right now

1027
00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 2: because we have the means and the motive to try

1028
00:56:45,200 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 2: to transition from an electricity generating sector that's largely dependent

1029
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:55,800
Speaker 2: on fossil fuels into energy sources that do not produce

1030
00:56:55,920 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 2: any further carbon emissions. To your point about if we

1031
00:57:00,680 --> 00:57:04,680
Speaker 2: don't do this now, if we do this now, no

1032
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 2: one else is going to do anything else. We still

1033
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:09,719
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to bring that DOWT, to get rid

1034
00:57:09,719 --> 00:57:12,440
Speaker 2: of that fifteen percent, to turn that fifteen percent into zero.

1035
00:57:13,000 --> 00:57:15,719
Speaker 2: Whether or not any of the other nations on this

1036
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 2: planet partake in transitioning from fossil fuel burning electricity production

1037
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:27,760
Speaker 2: to renewable energies, we're still responsible for a huge portion

1038
00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 2: of that. So as a nation, we can move towards

1039
00:57:32,200 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 2: an electricity producing sector that produces no carbon, and we should.

1040
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 2: That's why it's the goal of this presidential administration and

1041
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,560
Speaker 2: the goal of the Nature Conservancy to bring us to

1042
00:57:43,000 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 2: net zero carbon emissions by the year twenty fifty. That's

1043
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,600
Speaker 2: only twenty six years from now. We need a major

1044
00:57:48,720 --> 00:57:54,040
Speaker 2: uptake in the production of renewable energies like wind and

1045
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:59,880
Speaker 2: solar on land and also offshore. Can I respond to

1046
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 2: another thing that you said, You can talk for an

1047
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 2: hour if you want start so I understand your trepidation

1048
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,560
Speaker 2: about the loss of habitat.

1049
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:13,880
Speaker 1: Can you, within this touch on the BLM's proposal. Definitely, Okay,

1050
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:16,040
Speaker 1: tell everybody about that.

1051
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 2: So right now, the Bureau of Land Management is overseeing

1052
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:26,160
Speaker 2: something called the Western Solar Plan. There is this is

1053
00:58:26,200 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: maybe going to be a little jargony there's right now

1054
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:34,000
Speaker 2: a draft programmatic Environmental impact statement for the Western Solar Plan.

1055
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:38,960
Speaker 2: There are several alternatives in that plan. They all involve

1056
00:58:39,360 --> 00:58:45,160
Speaker 2: opening public land BLM land to solar application. What a

1057
00:58:45,200 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: solar application means. Solar application means that that land has

1058
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,320
Speaker 2: cleared the first hurdle, the first governmental hurdle, to be

1059
00:58:53,720 --> 00:59:00,320
Speaker 2: identified as suitable for the building of solar farms. It

1060
00:59:00,360 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that all of that land, under any circumstance,

1061
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:07,520
Speaker 2: will eventually have solar on it. You've seen a lot

1062
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 2: in the news about the government selected preferred alternative of

1063
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:15,960
Speaker 2: that solar plan, which would open twenty two million acres

1064
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 2: of public land to solar application.

1065
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 1: Public hunting ground. Let's just call it that.

1066
00:59:22,520 --> 00:59:27,919
Speaker 2: BLM lands upon which a variety of recreation upon which

1067
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:32,480
Speaker 2: a variety of consumptive and non consumptive outdoor activities can

1068
00:59:32,520 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 2: take place.

1069
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,840
Speaker 4: Well, you met you like you mentioned that. And at

1070
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 4: the same time, the BLM has promised to prioritize recreation

1071
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,320
Speaker 4: activities and wildlife habitat. So how do these two things.

1072
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 2: Like, I'm glad you asked. So, there's one other alternative

1073
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 2: in that plan that would only open eight million acres

1074
00:59:55,520 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 2: to solar application, and that eight million acres is lands

1075
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:06,400
Speaker 2: that are both already disturbed and are within ten miles

1076
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 2: of transmission existing transmission infrastructure. So that's one thing to

1077
01:00:11,880 --> 01:00:16,320
Speaker 2: support with this. Where we know we need more renewable

1078
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:21,040
Speaker 2: energy production, we have an opportunity we can build solar

1079
01:00:21,120 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 2: on lands that are already disturbed. By the way, twenty

1080
01:00:24,240 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 2: three million acres of federal land is currently an oil

1081
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:30,280
Speaker 2: and gas leases, twenty three million acres twelve million acres

1082
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:34,120
Speaker 2: currently producing oil and gas. Oh hit me? Is those

1083
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:37,960
Speaker 2: numbers again? Twenty three million acres of federal land more

1084
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:42,280
Speaker 2: than the preferred alternative in the draft Programmatic Environment Impacts.

1085
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,520
Speaker 2: Twenty three million acres of federal land are currently leased

1086
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:49,760
Speaker 2: to oil and gas companies, twelve million acres currently producing

1087
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,400
Speaker 2: oil and gas of public land.

1088
01:00:52,600 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 1: So one of these proposals would more than double the

1089
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 1: amount of land, would more than double the amount of

1090
01:00:58,720 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: land given to energy production.

1091
01:01:00,120 --> 01:01:02,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I understand the question. But what I'm not sure

1092
01:01:02,240 --> 01:01:05,720
Speaker 2: about is whether there's overlap in that twenty two millionaires

1093
01:01:05,760 --> 01:01:07,000
Speaker 2: for solar three.

1094
01:01:06,840 --> 01:01:09,720
Speaker 4: For the eight million dollars or eight million acre plan.

1095
01:01:10,160 --> 01:01:14,280
Speaker 4: They would use existing roads and things like that that

1096
01:01:14,920 --> 01:01:18,720
Speaker 4: are being used by fossil fuel extraction operations.

1097
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 2: Or wherever possible, we want to use existing transmission infrastructure,

1098
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 2: which of course includes things like roads, that includes things

1099
01:01:25,920 --> 01:01:29,920
Speaker 2: like power lines. Right, And that's what we that's what

1100
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:33,080
Speaker 2: we know we need, and that the Nature Conservacy's working

1101
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 2: towards identifying the lowest impact ways to build out a

1102
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:39,600
Speaker 2: clean energy economy.

1103
01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 4: Right Because I mean, not only do you have like

1104
01:01:42,360 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 4: the idea of solar panels covering the ground, but all

1105
01:01:45,440 --> 01:01:48,040
Speaker 4: the roads in infrastructure you would have to build is

1106
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 4: not much different than what's already being done by fossil

1107
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:53,600
Speaker 4: fuel viperation.

1108
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:58,280
Speaker 2: The footprint of any energy installation is not restricted to

1109
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:03,840
Speaker 2: just the infrastructure that's generating the electricity.

1110
01:02:04,600 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 8: Who are the biggest players that are foreign against this?

1111
01:02:09,840 --> 01:02:12,160
Speaker 2: When you say this, do you mean the renewable energy

1112
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:15,240
Speaker 2: transition in general or the one.

1113
01:02:17,160 --> 01:02:19,520
Speaker 1: It's got to be a bitter pill for environmental groups

1114
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: who've been who've built their careers, who've built their organizations

1115
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:24,880
Speaker 1: on fighting energy development.

1116
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 2: I don't think it's a bitter pill at all. I

1117
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 2: think all it's in my mouth right now, it's better,

1118
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 2: well not certainly not for every environmental group. So there's

1119
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 2: always trade offs with building any energy infrastructure, and why

1120
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:48,760
Speaker 2: would we not transition to building renewable energy infrastructure. Why

1121
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:51,840
Speaker 2: would we stick with fossil fuels when we have the

1122
01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:58,120
Speaker 2: opportunity to build infrastructure, to build utility scale projects that

1123
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:02,400
Speaker 2: produce electricity at no net carbon emissions.

1124
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:09,439
Speaker 1: You're asking a huge question, and I'm trying to keep

1125
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:13,479
Speaker 1: this conversation contained because I could come I could come

1126
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 1: in with a lot of things that are sort of

1127
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,520
Speaker 1: out of my area of direct interests and expertise, and

1128
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: I would get into I guess, national security questions. I

1129
01:03:22,240 --> 01:03:23,919
Speaker 1: don't know, like like I don't even know. I don't

1130
01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 1: even know where the conversation would go. If we're talking

1131
01:03:25,720 --> 01:03:29,880
Speaker 1: about it from a sort of a perspective of the

1132
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:36,000
Speaker 1: US economy security, it could go one hundred directions.

1133
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, fine, But but from a public lens standpoint?

1134
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:44,080
Speaker 2: From okay, that that I'm comfortable with. Yeah, there's always

1135
01:03:44,120 --> 01:03:49,920
Speaker 2: trade offs. Over the last several decades, we've seen oil

1136
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 2: and gas exploration, we've seen oil and gas, new oil

1137
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:56,920
Speaker 2: and gas leases. So if we're going on public lands,

1138
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 2: so if we're if we're going to use public lane

1139
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 2: ends in the generation of electricity, why would we continue

1140
01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:08,400
Speaker 2: to do that with fossil fuels and not transition to renewables.

1141
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:10,480
Speaker 2: I can't really tell you.

1142
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: A thing that I would explore would be efficiency meaning

1143
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:17,080
Speaker 1: energy per unit of space.

1144
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:21,919
Speaker 2: Okay, that's one way to measure efficiency, sure, but it's

1145
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:26,000
Speaker 2: also about containing the climate crisis and trying to curb

1146
01:04:26,040 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 2: emissions and bring us to and and energy and an

1147
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,040
Speaker 2: energy sector that's not continuing to contribute to what we've

1148
01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 2: seen over the last several years. Runaway temperatures, species shifting,

1149
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 2: the distributions, all the things we just touched on. Are

1150
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:46,160
Speaker 2: you familiar? I can't remember who. There's a novelist. He's

1151
01:04:46,160 --> 01:04:46,960
Speaker 2: a big birder.

1152
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 5: That's his name, read the French name Gay No no no.

1153
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: He's a contemporary novelist and he's a big.

1154
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:02,800
Speaker 2: Burder, A novelist, not nonfiction. Who wrote the corrections? Was

1155
01:05:02,800 --> 01:05:04,280
Speaker 2: it him? Either way?

1156
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,400
Speaker 3: Uh? But not leaves of.

1157
01:05:10,040 --> 01:05:12,720
Speaker 2: Either way? It doesn't matter. There's a perspective. His perspective

1158
01:05:12,760 --> 01:05:13,040
Speaker 2: was this.

1159
01:05:13,040 --> 01:05:17,360
Speaker 1: This perspective was as the climate, the climate's changing, climate's

1160
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 1: going to change. The best thing we can give wildlife

1161
01:05:20,480 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 1: is sanctuary to withstand those changes. Wildlife places to be

1162
01:05:29,640 --> 01:05:35,040
Speaker 1: wild and weather the storm and again, like I want

1163
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: you like I just I don't want to like I'm

1164
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: not I'm not looking to debate it. I'm just trying

1165
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:42,080
Speaker 1: to lay out my reticence and then I want you

1166
01:05:42,160 --> 01:05:46,040
Speaker 1: just to go, Okay, but that's my my reticence is

1167
01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:49,920
Speaker 1: that we would give up good funk like any amount

1168
01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: of good functioning, pristine wildlife habitat in it in exchange

1169
01:05:57,200 --> 01:05:59,800
Speaker 1: for chasing a thing that I'm not sure we can get.

1170
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 1: But I'm sure we're gonna lose habitat and chasing it.

1171
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 2: We're not necessarily going to lose pristine habitat. As I mentioned,

1172
01:06:09,560 --> 01:06:12,800
Speaker 2: one of the alternatives in this Western solar plant only

1173
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:16,800
Speaker 2: includes previously disturbed lands. So we're not talking about cutting

1174
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,040
Speaker 2: out what is the definition of that.

1175
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:20,240
Speaker 1: You'd have to look at the because you could go

1176
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: to a ranch and say that's previously disturbed. Isn't it

1177
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:29,000
Speaker 1: not from wildlife perspective? Okay, So then Mikyle's not condos guy, gotcha?

1178
01:06:29,360 --> 01:06:33,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is so like I'll make the the bargain

1179
01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 5: with you right now. I'd be way more into it

1180
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:40,600
Speaker 5: if my version of disturbed right like these old well pads,

1181
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,560
Speaker 5: the infrastructure that go out to you know, you know,

1182
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 5: you fly over you know, parts of the Red Desert,

1183
01:06:49,200 --> 01:06:53,360
Speaker 5: all that stuff, that type of infrastructure BAM gets replaced

1184
01:06:53,400 --> 01:06:58,240
Speaker 5: with green energy infrastructure. I'm like, yeah, okay, I can

1185
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 5: see that. Like we're not gonna in any sort of

1186
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:07,440
Speaker 5: good way be able to rehab that into the mixed

1187
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:08,840
Speaker 5: grass prairie that it once was.

1188
01:07:10,440 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 2: So the good news here is that the public is

1189
01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,479
Speaker 2: involved in this process at every step of the way.

1190
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 2: Right now, there's a public comment period open for the

1191
01:07:20,400 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 2: Western Solar Plan. This is going to drop April first.

1192
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:23,440
Speaker 3: I heard.

1193
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:28,040
Speaker 2: The public comment period is open until April eighteenth. There

1194
01:07:28,120 --> 01:07:28,960
Speaker 2: right now, if you go to.

1195
01:07:29,160 --> 01:07:33,080
Speaker 1: Three days after the tickets going, yeah, get your tickets,

1196
01:07:33,560 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 1: get your tickets to the live show, and get a

1197
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:37,919
Speaker 1: couple days of recoup a couple days.

1198
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:42,360
Speaker 2: Proceed right to the BLM's website. Take a look. There

1199
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 2: will be recordings of virtual meetings that have already happened.

1200
01:07:46,720 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 2: But you can listen to the virtual webinars describing the

1201
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:53,840
Speaker 2: solar plan. Maybe somebody asked, what's your definition of disturbed lends.

1202
01:07:53,880 --> 01:07:56,040
Speaker 2: Maybe you can get a nice crisp answer from the

1203
01:07:56,080 --> 01:07:59,000
Speaker 2: BLM on that, and then you can provide public comment.

1204
01:07:59,160 --> 01:08:01,840
Speaker 2: Tell them what you think, and that's that's the case

1205
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 2: with any not just solar, that's the case with any

1206
01:08:05,760 --> 01:08:10,480
Speaker 2: of these environmental impact statements, which every renewable or fossil

1207
01:08:10,480 --> 01:08:15,160
Speaker 2: fuel related project has to go through an environmental impact statement,

1208
01:08:15,360 --> 01:08:17,720
Speaker 2: and that the public is involved in every step of

1209
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,720
Speaker 2: the way. The public is involved in narrowing down the

1210
01:08:20,800 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 2: area that's opened, the public is involved in reading and

1211
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:29,800
Speaker 2: commenting on the proposal from the company, the construction and

1212
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 2: operations plan, all the way through until the project is built.

1213
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:40,000
Speaker 7: I think that there are six options if I'm not mistaken,

1214
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:44,400
Speaker 7: like five different frameworks for the plan. And then if

1215
01:08:44,439 --> 01:08:49,080
Speaker 7: I read this correctly, there's a no action status quo option,

1216
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:50,000
Speaker 7: which I.

1217
01:08:49,880 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 2: Think theys thing happens. Yep, there's always a no action alternative.

1218
01:08:55,439 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 4: Is there any existing studies like where large scale solar

1219
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 4: operations have been built, like on wildlife impact? Like are

1220
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 4: they like what where are they basin what they're going

1221
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:13,800
Speaker 4: to do and what's going to happen.

1222
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:18,040
Speaker 2: On that's a little out of my expertise.

1223
01:09:18,120 --> 01:09:22,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it almost feels like we're like, hey,

1224
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:24,680
Speaker 4: after you, but it's just like questians I have.

1225
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 2: No, that's perfectly fair. I mean there are ways that

1226
01:09:27,560 --> 01:09:32,519
Speaker 2: you can mitigate the impact on wildlife to things like

1227
01:09:32,920 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 2: a solar project. For example. Most solar projects are going

1228
01:09:36,400 --> 01:09:39,160
Speaker 2: to have a fence around them. That's not great from

1229
01:09:39,280 --> 01:09:42,599
Speaker 2: a migration standpoint, but you can make a permeable fence.

1230
01:09:42,920 --> 01:09:46,280
Speaker 2: Maybe not for an elk, but for foxes, Okay, for

1231
01:09:46,640 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 2: desert tortoise you can. You can have openings in the

1232
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 2: fence and allow them to move through that project even

1233
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 2: though it's there, and they do. We actually have footage

1234
01:09:56,400 --> 01:10:00,920
Speaker 2: of desert tortoises and swift foxes running along a solar

1235
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:03,080
Speaker 2: farms fence and cutting through.

1236
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:15,320
Speaker 1: There's two things I want to do, and you'd pick whatever,

1237
01:10:15,360 --> 01:10:15,960
Speaker 1: whatever one you.

1238
01:10:15,880 --> 01:10:17,920
Speaker 6: Want now, and then we should move to off I want.

1239
01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:21,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. One move is talk about offshore. Yeah, that's like

1240
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:22,280
Speaker 2: you'd explained.

1241
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:26,120
Speaker 1: The other move is we have an election coming up

1242
01:10:26,160 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 1: this November.

1243
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 2: What are you running for?

1244
01:10:28,760 --> 01:10:32,439
Speaker 1: If well, if there's a if there's an administration somewhere

1245
01:10:32,479 --> 01:10:36,680
Speaker 1: within this conversation, if there's a change in administration, how

1246
01:10:36,760 --> 01:10:38,880
Speaker 1: much did this just becomes a non issue. I mean

1247
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:44,600
Speaker 1: Trump said he was he joked and was taken Like

1248
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:46,839
Speaker 1: everything he says he like makes a joke and actually

1249
01:10:46,880 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 1: serious he joked that, Oh, no, I'm gonna be a

1250
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:50,479
Speaker 1: what do He said, I'm gonna be a dictator for

1251
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,120
Speaker 1: a day, just a day.

1252
01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:54,720
Speaker 2: He was he's joke.

1253
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,120
Speaker 1: He doesn't have the authority, he said. Someone says, oh,

1254
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:59,479
Speaker 1: everyone's afraid you're gonna be a dictator. He goes, no,

1255
01:10:59,479 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be a dictator one day, and on that day,

1256
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:08,559
Speaker 1: I'm gonna close the border and I'm gonna take some action.

1257
01:11:08,600 --> 01:11:11,080
Speaker 1: I can't remember how I articulated it takes some action

1258
01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:14,960
Speaker 1: to increase domestic oil production. Then he says, then I'm

1259
01:11:14,960 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 1: gonna quit being a dictator.

1260
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:18,519
Speaker 2: Let's do the offshore one.

1261
01:11:18,640 --> 01:11:20,479
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll do off short. But I want to come back,

1262
01:11:20,560 --> 01:11:22,880
Speaker 1: like all the things we're talking about, how much does

1263
01:11:22,920 --> 01:11:26,519
Speaker 1: this ride on? Like how much if you come back

1264
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:32,480
Speaker 1: next January seven, how much would everything we just discussed

1265
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:35,600
Speaker 1: become a non issue because there was a change in administrations.

1266
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 2: I can provide you with several names within the Nature

1267
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:41,840
Speaker 2: Conservancy who would love to come on this program and

1268
01:11:41,920 --> 01:11:42,719
Speaker 2: answer that question.

1269
01:11:44,800 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 5: I got one more pragmatic question on here, and it's

1270
01:11:48,080 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 5: okay if we just like leave it on the table.

1271
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:56,559
Speaker 5: But there's a finite amount of public land and it's

1272
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:03,719
Speaker 5: declining of that public land habitat. A lot of it

1273
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:10,400
Speaker 5: is already in question. We and we've we're losing good habitat.

1274
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:17,000
Speaker 5: What what's the private land existing infrastructure option to carry

1275
01:12:17,000 --> 01:12:21,080
Speaker 5: out and get us to the same you know, net zero.

1276
01:12:22,200 --> 01:12:24,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, point like if we did this in a willing seller,

1277
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:26,000
Speaker 2: willing buyers.

1278
01:12:25,920 --> 01:12:28,679
Speaker 4: Like wind farms, I mean a lot of those are

1279
01:12:28,680 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 4: on we could land.

1280
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,360
Speaker 2: It's a great question. Kyle's not turbanes kind of.

1281
01:12:36,320 --> 01:12:40,080
Speaker 1: Turbineses.

1282
01:12:41,439 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 2: No, that's that I think that there is a lot

1283
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 2: of ground to make up by putting this infrastructure on

1284
01:12:47,600 --> 01:12:51,320
Speaker 2: private lands. And one thing that the Nature Conservancy has

1285
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:55,400
Speaker 2: done some analyzes towards this rooftop solar not not just

1286
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:59,559
Speaker 2: on homes but on big box stores things like that.

1287
01:13:00,880 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 2: An analysis was done that suggested that if thirty five

1288
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 2: percent of all suitable rooftops had solar on them by

1289
01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:15,639
Speaker 2: twenty fifty, which is aggressive but maybe reasonable, a third

1290
01:13:15,640 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 2: of all roofs in the United States is going to

1291
01:13:17,360 --> 01:13:23,679
Speaker 2: be hell on pigeons. That would meet that alone would

1292
01:13:23,680 --> 01:13:28,040
Speaker 2: meet ten percent of our needs for electricity. What level

1293
01:13:28,040 --> 01:13:30,920
Speaker 2: of compliance or what level of thirty a third of

1294
01:13:31,000 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 2: rooftops covered by solar panels were it. That's already that's

1295
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 2: ten percent. So that's a way. That's it right there,

1296
01:13:37,880 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 2: you go. Now, imagine there's a bunch of the problem

1297
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:41,600
Speaker 2: right there. It's a bunch of the problem. And I

1298
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:43,800
Speaker 2: think you recently said something about sports stadiums.

1299
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:48,200
Speaker 3: Yep, just fill that whole thing in with solar.

1300
01:13:48,400 --> 01:13:53,320
Speaker 2: I would say the Bears, Chicago Bears Stadium first one

1301
01:13:53,320 --> 01:13:56,320
Speaker 2: to go, great Minnesota Vikings number two.

1302
01:13:57,040 --> 01:13:59,040
Speaker 1: To any one of those things that opens up, it's

1303
01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:02,240
Speaker 1: now closed, the top, the roof closed covered.

1304
01:14:02,280 --> 01:14:03,400
Speaker 3: What are you a Packers fan?

1305
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

1306
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 8: Who would pay for the BLM proposal? If they like

1307
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:09,800
Speaker 8: did this start doing?

1308
01:14:09,439 --> 01:14:10,800
Speaker 2: A great question? Who pays for it?

1309
01:14:10,840 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 8: I assume there's like some private individuals that are you know,

1310
01:14:13,040 --> 01:14:14,519
Speaker 8: footing the bills to these things.

1311
01:14:14,560 --> 01:14:16,519
Speaker 2: Do you mean who pays for the build out of

1312
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:17,680
Speaker 2: the actual infrastructure of.

1313
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,639
Speaker 8: It, Like, you know, are we paying for some portion

1314
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:23,280
Speaker 8: of it? Or is it mostly private individuals who are

1315
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:24,920
Speaker 8: like standing to make money off this.

1316
01:14:25,120 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 2: Like they're going to sell the lease or what are

1317
01:14:26,760 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 2: they gonna do? How's it work? Oh? Okay, so it's

1318
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:34,240
Speaker 2: a it's a win win. So I know it's a

1319
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:40,200
Speaker 2: win win. So the developer applies for a lease from

1320
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 2: the federal government or in the offshore wind space, the

1321
01:14:45,280 --> 01:14:48,760
Speaker 2: federal government holds an auction for the lease for the

1322
01:14:48,880 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 2: rights to build a project on that ground. It might

1323
01:14:54,680 --> 01:14:57,360
Speaker 2: go for ten million, one hundred million, whatever it depends

1324
01:14:57,360 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 2: on the lease, depends on how big it is, where

1325
01:14:59,040 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 2: it is. Whatever that money goes into the general treasury.

1326
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:07,120
Speaker 2: That's in our pockets. Okay. The company then has the

1327
01:15:07,200 --> 01:15:12,360
Speaker 2: rights to develop that ground generate electricity, and that goes

1328
01:15:12,400 --> 01:15:15,600
Speaker 2: in their pockets once they start making money.

1329
01:15:15,439 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 1: Once they start pouring it into the grid.

1330
01:15:17,439 --> 01:15:20,120
Speaker 2: Which in the offshore wind space not a lot of

1331
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:21,680
Speaker 2: is happening yet, but it were on.

1332
01:15:21,640 --> 01:15:25,600
Speaker 4: The brink, so it would operate just like fossil fuel.

1333
01:15:26,160 --> 01:15:30,599
Speaker 1: From a from a economics, the BLM makes money off it, Yeah.

1334
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:35,559
Speaker 2: The public makes money off it or cattle grazing, and

1335
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 2: and I gotta feel it's more lucrative than the it's

1336
01:15:39,920 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 2: definitely contract. Yeah. So as far as as far as

1337
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:48,599
Speaker 2: putting solar wind on private land, that does put money

1338
01:15:48,640 --> 01:15:51,960
Speaker 2: in the pocket of the landowner big time. The companies

1339
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 2: are really proprietary about how much money. But it's more

1340
01:15:55,479 --> 01:15:58,240
Speaker 2: lucrative than cattle ranching or grown corn.

1341
01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,200
Speaker 1: I recently, I don't want to get into any details.

1342
01:16:01,320 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 1: I have a friend that is in conversation with the

1343
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:10,360
Speaker 1: solar people. It's life changing money. So there you go,

1344
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:14,759
Speaker 1: like it's life, it's it's generation, it's generational money.

1345
01:16:15,479 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 2: So if you're listening to this and you got a

1346
01:16:16,840 --> 01:16:18,439
Speaker 2: big patch of ground, you want.

1347
01:16:18,320 --> 01:16:23,519
Speaker 1: To turn the turn off? Please you big patch of ground.

1348
01:16:23,280 --> 01:16:23,680
Speaker 3: Turned it off.

1349
01:16:23,720 --> 01:16:26,720
Speaker 5: But I mean, we got all these buildings out there

1350
01:16:26,720 --> 01:16:31,080
Speaker 5: that are already patched in to the grid somehow, some way, hmm.

1351
01:16:31,360 --> 01:16:33,439
Speaker 5: Like right, I mean there's going to need to be

1352
01:16:33,560 --> 01:16:36,680
Speaker 5: like if you're generating some serious your juice, you know,

1353
01:16:38,080 --> 01:16:41,519
Speaker 5: but that ship I don't like, lay a big, gross

1354
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 5: looking cable off the top. I don't care about that.

1355
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:47,760
Speaker 5: Sure if it's fixing this problem. But like, you know,

1356
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:52,240
Speaker 5: we I just came back from pheasant Fest, right, and

1357
01:16:52,320 --> 01:16:57,040
Speaker 5: you know we talk a lot about grasslands, right, the

1358
01:16:57,080 --> 01:17:02,519
Speaker 5: most imperiled ecosystem in North America. Right, And I'm like,

1359
01:17:04,000 --> 01:17:07,599
Speaker 5: what if you can say like this is the solution,

1360
01:17:08,600 --> 01:17:11,240
Speaker 5: then I'm like, oh uh, some trade offs, but I

1361
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,519
Speaker 5: really want it to be in these places that are

1362
01:17:13,520 --> 01:17:20,720
Speaker 5: already messed up for wildlife. But if like we have

1363
01:17:20,800 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 5: all this stuff that is never going to go back

1364
01:17:23,600 --> 01:17:27,960
Speaker 5: to supporting anything but feral cats. Yep, Like let's slap

1365
01:17:28,000 --> 01:17:30,599
Speaker 5: some slap some rough tops, hold around that stuff.

1366
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:32,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to get to I want to get

1367
01:17:32,520 --> 01:17:36,599
Speaker 1: to offshore bad. But it's like just for your colleagues.

1368
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,559
Speaker 1: For you and your colleagues, please just make sure you're

1369
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:44,360
Speaker 1: like really digging into like old junkie vacant lots like

1370
01:17:44,640 --> 01:17:50,600
Speaker 1: just whatever, Okay, whatever you guys can find. Well, I

1371
01:17:50,640 --> 01:17:53,400
Speaker 1: encourage you to actually parking lots that you park under

1372
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:54,560
Speaker 1: the panels.

1373
01:17:54,760 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 2: I've parked in those. I've parked in.

1374
01:17:57,040 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: Those, So it's not even that it's not even that

1375
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: you lose the parking lot. Yep, it's covered parking.

1376
01:18:02,080 --> 01:18:05,120
Speaker 2: And what about agrivoltaics which we haven't touched on. But

1377
01:18:05,160 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 2: you can grow especially fruits and vegetables underneath solar panels.

1378
01:18:08,400 --> 01:18:12,080
Speaker 2: You can graze cattle. Dairy cattle in particular produce more

1379
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,840
Speaker 2: milk when they are underneath solar panels, when they don't

1380
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:22,920
Speaker 2: have exposure to extreme heat, extreme sunlight. Great, this is

1381
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:25,360
Speaker 2: what I need to hear. I'm here for you. I

1382
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:26,360
Speaker 2: want to talk about offshore.

1383
01:18:26,479 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 1: What I don't want to hear about I need to

1384
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 1: hear about all the alterns before we start talking about

1385
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:35,080
Speaker 1: going out onto perfectly fine ground and breaking it up.

1386
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:38,240
Speaker 1: And I would say this, I don't give I'd say

1387
01:18:38,280 --> 01:18:40,439
Speaker 1: that if it's coal, I say if it's gas, it's

1388
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 1: just like, I just don't think we can afford to

1389
01:18:43,880 --> 01:18:45,840
Speaker 1: lose habitat.

1390
01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:49,000
Speaker 2: We agree with you, we are looking for the lowest

1391
01:18:49,040 --> 01:18:51,160
Speaker 2: impact alternatives. Okay, let's talk about offshore.

1392
01:18:51,240 --> 01:18:53,360
Speaker 5: And while I did, just a little tip for you,

1393
01:18:53,840 --> 01:18:56,600
Speaker 5: if you want to talk about offshore from an improving

1394
01:18:56,880 --> 01:18:59,200
Speaker 5: fishing standpoint, that'd be a good way to do it.

1395
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:04,120
Speaker 2: Is that where you want to.

1396
01:19:04,120 --> 01:19:08,400
Speaker 1: Start, what's the current? Give us where offshore for? Okay,

1397
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 1: do this explain what offshore means, because there's like there's

1398
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 1: state offshore in federal offshore. Sure, and then what are

1399
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:19,560
Speaker 1: we currently doing for offshore wind and what are we

1400
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:20,120
Speaker 1: getting out of it?

1401
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:25,599
Speaker 2: Yep? Set the stage. So the distinguishing characteristic between state

1402
01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:29,640
Speaker 2: and federal waters is the three mile line. So in

1403
01:19:29,720 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 2: the Atlantic, so three miles from shore, the state has

1404
01:19:35,160 --> 01:19:40,040
Speaker 2: fisheries management jurisdiction, leasing the bottom jurisdiction. Once you get

1405
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,360
Speaker 2: outside that three mile line into the edge of the

1406
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:46,439
Speaker 2: exclusive economics and the EZ at two hundred miles that's

1407
01:19:46,680 --> 01:19:47,599
Speaker 2: federally controlled.

1408
01:19:47,680 --> 01:19:51,599
Speaker 1: Okay, I wasn't aware of the where it ended.

1409
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,599
Speaker 2: Two hundred and then it's international waters, got it, yep.

1410
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: So three it becomes fed, and then at two hundred

1411
01:19:57,280 --> 01:19:59,200
Speaker 1: it becomes sort of everybody.

1412
01:19:58,680 --> 01:20:01,320
Speaker 2: Three to two hundred, and then it's it's everybody, it's nobody.

1413
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:04,880
Speaker 2: It's foreign fishing fleets, it's you know, offshore accounts. They're

1414
01:20:04,880 --> 01:20:05,559
Speaker 2: out there somewhere.

1415
01:20:05,760 --> 01:20:10,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, little piles of money floating around.

1416
01:20:10,439 --> 01:20:12,320
Speaker 2: That's a fish aggregating device right there.

1417
01:20:12,479 --> 01:20:14,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, the baiales of cocaine and yeah.

1418
01:20:14,600 --> 01:20:18,360
Speaker 2: Man, So here's where we are with offshore wind right now.

1419
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:25,759
Speaker 2: As of last week, there are twenty four operational power

1420
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:31,439
Speaker 2: producing wind turbines in the United States Atlantic. Five are

1421
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:34,200
Speaker 2: actually in state waters off Black Island, Rhode Island. You know,

1422
01:20:34,479 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 2: they were the first Rhode Island thing. I think fished

1423
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:41,680
Speaker 2: it totally. Twenty seventeen they built five then off of

1424
01:20:41,800 --> 01:20:47,479
Speaker 2: Virginia in federal waters. First federal project was built in

1425
01:20:47,479 --> 01:20:53,240
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two turbines. Okay, how big in what? By

1426
01:20:53,280 --> 01:20:56,639
Speaker 2: what metric? There's six megawatts each there.

1427
01:20:56,560 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 1: The circumference, What is the circumference of the thing coming

1428
01:20:59,920 --> 01:21:01,600
Speaker 1: up out of the water where it comes out of

1429
01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:01,920
Speaker 1: the water.

1430
01:21:01,960 --> 01:21:04,520
Speaker 2: I was what's today Friday. I was fishing around it

1431
01:21:04,600 --> 01:21:07,960
Speaker 2: five days ago, close enough that you could reach out

1432
01:21:07,960 --> 01:21:09,800
Speaker 2: and touch it with your fishing rod. Not that you should,

1433
01:21:09,840 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 2: because that would be trespassing. The diameter, which is easier

1434
01:21:16,000 --> 01:21:20,439
Speaker 2: for me to estimate it is maybe twenty feet coming

1435
01:21:20,479 --> 01:21:22,799
Speaker 2: out of at the surface of the water. It's bigger,

1436
01:21:22,880 --> 01:21:26,080
Speaker 2: of course, at the sea floor, slightly tapered larger at

1437
01:21:26,080 --> 01:21:30,720
Speaker 2: the sea floor. The tip of the blade when it's

1438
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:34,000
Speaker 2: spinning and it's straight up and down is six hundred

1439
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,160
Speaker 2: and six fifty off the surface of the ocean. And

1440
01:21:37,200 --> 01:21:41,200
Speaker 2: this is a six megawat how much water eighty five

1441
01:21:41,200 --> 01:21:46,519
Speaker 2: feet eighty five feet of depth? Yep, yep. So how's

1442
01:21:46,520 --> 01:21:49,040
Speaker 2: that sound, bitch anchored down? Well, we'll get into that,

1443
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:51,720
Speaker 2: because that's that's important. But let me give you the

1444
01:21:51,720 --> 01:21:53,479
Speaker 2: rest of the rundown here I won't spend too much

1445
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:57,640
Speaker 2: time on. Then. You've got a handful more projects that

1446
01:21:57,680 --> 01:22:00,559
Speaker 2: are underway right now off of between like Long Island

1447
01:22:00,560 --> 01:22:04,679
Speaker 2: and Martha's Vineyard, that little stretch of coast. One project

1448
01:22:04,720 --> 01:22:08,120
Speaker 2: just finished up last week. Twelve is the number twelve

1449
01:22:08,200 --> 01:22:10,679
Speaker 2: total turbines. Then there's another one that's underway. They've got five,

1450
01:22:10,760 --> 01:22:14,360
Speaker 2: so five, five, twelve and two, so that's twenty four.

1451
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:17,400
Speaker 1: That's where we're currently in the Atlantic Ocean, and US

1452
01:22:17,479 --> 01:22:19,240
Speaker 1: water US or state waters.

1453
01:22:19,000 --> 01:22:23,719
Speaker 2: Are power producing power twenty four right now?

1454
01:22:24,280 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 1: Can I ask one more question as you set this

1455
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:29,760
Speaker 1: whole thing up, Yeah, can you compare the output of

1456
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:32,080
Speaker 1: one of because I think I know what. Most people

1457
01:22:32,120 --> 01:22:33,920
Speaker 1: haven't seen that, but most people have been driving down

1458
01:22:33,960 --> 01:22:36,160
Speaker 1: the road and they've seen a wind farm yep. So

1459
01:22:37,080 --> 01:22:39,880
Speaker 1: in size and output, ye, how similar is it to

1460
01:22:39,920 --> 01:22:42,759
Speaker 1: what you see off in the distance when you're driving.

1461
01:22:42,600 --> 01:22:45,400
Speaker 2: Down the highway? Offshore? It is way bigger. They're bigger. Yeah.

1462
01:22:45,479 --> 01:22:49,960
Speaker 2: So on land, your typical wind turbine generators three and

1463
01:22:49,960 --> 01:22:53,120
Speaker 2: a half megawatts, So I just mentioned the ones off

1464
01:22:53,200 --> 01:22:58,040
Speaker 2: Virginia six megawatts. That's the that's the pilot or research

1465
01:22:58,120 --> 01:23:02,120
Speaker 2: project for that. Developer will begin building a commercial scale

1466
01:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,160
Speaker 2: project this May. They're going to be putting in fourteen's

1467
01:23:05,439 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 2: fourteen megawatt wind turbine generators. That project will be one

1468
01:23:09,320 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy six turbines. Sure, it's going to power

1469
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,680
Speaker 2: six hundred and sixty thousand homes annually. Six hundred and

1470
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,960
Speaker 2: sixty thousand homes will be powered by those wind turbines

1471
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:23,479
Speaker 2: off Virginia. So that project that's fairly big. One hundred

1472
01:23:23,520 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 2: and seventy six fairly big one in terms of what's

1473
01:23:25,200 --> 01:23:29,120
Speaker 2: been leased right now. But Bureau of Ocean Energy Management

1474
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:33,360
Speaker 2: BOUM is the regulatory agency tasked with all of the

1475
01:23:33,400 --> 01:23:37,000
Speaker 2: permitting and all of the everything with offshore wind. Their

1476
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:40,160
Speaker 2: current estimate by the year twenty thirty is just over

1477
01:23:40,200 --> 01:23:43,799
Speaker 2: three thousand turbines in the US Atlantic. That's the maximum

1478
01:23:43,840 --> 01:23:45,360
Speaker 2: build out. I think we're going to land a little

1479
01:23:45,400 --> 01:23:47,759
Speaker 2: lower than that in the twos in the two thousand,

1480
01:23:47,840 --> 01:23:50,599
Speaker 2: What year twenty thirty, Yeah, it's twenty twenty four, So

1481
01:23:50,960 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 2: six years from now three thousand, more like two to

1482
01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:58,160
Speaker 2: twenty five hundred probably in the d that's about just

1483
01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:03,280
Speaker 2: building the gold rush for well shit, there's there's a

1484
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:04,800
Speaker 2: supply chain that needs to catch up.

1485
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,040
Speaker 1: So the maximum man, you need to get more kids

1486
01:24:07,200 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 1: signing up for Vogue time school.

1487
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 2: So I'll give you what I mean by the maximal

1488
01:24:13,479 --> 01:24:15,840
Speaker 2: build out. So take the Virginia project for example. The

1489
01:24:15,840 --> 01:24:18,439
Speaker 2: maximal build out of that project was about two hundred

1490
01:24:18,439 --> 01:24:23,160
Speaker 2: and eight turbines. They are only going to build one

1491
01:24:23,240 --> 01:24:28,679
Speaker 2: hundred and seventy six. Where's the other thirty two going? Well?

1492
01:24:28,960 --> 01:24:32,439
Speaker 2: They through a collaborative process with the public and with

1493
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:36,000
Speaker 2: the federal government, decided to lay off a couple locations

1494
01:24:36,000 --> 01:24:39,080
Speaker 2: that were too close to important resources like shipwrecks, like

1495
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:42,360
Speaker 2: artificial briefs. They said, Okay, we could build one here

1496
01:24:42,400 --> 01:24:44,400
Speaker 2: and it's not going to be on top of a shipwreck,

1497
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:47,200
Speaker 2: but it's close enough, and this is a valuable enough

1498
01:24:48,200 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 2: piece of bottom that people like to fish that we're

1499
01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:53,559
Speaker 2: not going to build our turbines there. We're just going

1500
01:24:53,600 --> 01:24:55,800
Speaker 2: to carve out a little box. And that type of

1501
01:24:55,840 --> 01:24:58,479
Speaker 2: thing is likely to happen with a lot of these projects,

1502
01:24:58,479 --> 01:25:00,800
Speaker 2: which is why I say the maximal build out three thousand,

1503
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:02,320
Speaker 2: I think we're going to be maybe, I don't know,

1504
01:25:02,320 --> 01:25:03,519
Speaker 2: twenty percent lower than that.

1505
01:25:03,680 --> 01:25:05,640
Speaker 1: Can you hit me with Let's let's go to the

1506
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:09,000
Speaker 1: current ones. How many miles from shore are the current ones?

1507
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:13,040
Speaker 2: So the one I was fishing under five days ago

1508
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:18,120
Speaker 2: is twenty seven nautical miles from Virginia Beach, Virginia straight east.

1509
01:25:18,520 --> 01:25:20,479
Speaker 1: You're still only eighty five feet of water there.

1510
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. The continental shelf is a is a mysterious mistress

1511
01:25:24,560 --> 01:25:28,080
Speaker 2: and drops off at different distances from shore. I don't

1512
01:25:28,120 --> 01:25:31,280
Speaker 2: know where you are. Off Florida, you have five miles

1513
01:25:31,280 --> 01:25:32,840
Speaker 2: from the beach here in a thousand feet of water.

1514
01:25:33,920 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 2: But yeah, off Virginia, you gotta go a lot farther

1515
01:25:36,800 --> 01:25:39,240
Speaker 2: to get to that continental shelf break, okay, and.

1516
01:25:39,160 --> 01:25:43,679
Speaker 5: Then to transmit this energy or transport this energy?

1517
01:25:43,760 --> 01:25:46,320
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, are.

1518
01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,040
Speaker 5: You trying to like bring things to a centralized cable

1519
01:25:49,080 --> 01:25:53,759
Speaker 5: and then bring that on shore or what's the infrastructure there?

1520
01:25:54,520 --> 01:25:57,800
Speaker 5: So sorry, we should hit Steve's quite of how is

1521
01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:59,120
Speaker 5: that some bitch anchored down?

1522
01:26:00,160 --> 01:26:02,160
Speaker 2: Which one you want to go to first transmission?

1523
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:04,439
Speaker 1: Or just real quick touch on. I'm just curious that

1524
01:26:04,600 --> 01:26:05,559
Speaker 1: the engineering on it.

1525
01:26:05,720 --> 01:26:08,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so again, I'll speak from the Virginia project that

1526
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:11,599
Speaker 2: I that I'm most familiar with. One hundred and seventy

1527
01:26:11,640 --> 01:26:15,400
Speaker 2: six turbines will within that farm will spider web to

1528
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 2: three offshore substations, which will then package up that power

1529
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 2: into larger cables and shoot them to shore in a

1530
01:26:24,560 --> 01:26:26,040
Speaker 2: cable export corridor.

1531
01:26:26,600 --> 01:26:29,639
Speaker 3: Are those substations above or blow water above water?

1532
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:33,519
Speaker 2: Yep? How big is that? I'm not sure. The oil

1533
01:26:33,600 --> 01:26:36,240
Speaker 2: rig kind of look yeah, it looks like an oil rig. Yep, yep.

1534
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:39,680
Speaker 2: And okay, now how do you anchor them down? Yeah?

1535
01:26:39,720 --> 01:26:45,080
Speaker 5: That the footprint of the actual turbine the pole. Yeah,

1536
01:26:45,320 --> 01:26:48,400
Speaker 5: look pad, Well there's no pad, so here's okay.

1537
01:26:48,479 --> 01:26:51,759
Speaker 2: Yeah. So most of the projects that are under development

1538
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,360
Speaker 2: right now or will contribute to that three thousand by

1539
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:59,919
Speaker 2: twenty thirty number are built with what are called monopile foundation,

1540
01:27:00,400 --> 01:27:05,599
Speaker 2: which means you guessed it, one pull, one piling. These

1541
01:27:05,640 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 2: are thirty ish feet in diameter and they're hammered into

1542
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:14,479
Speaker 2: the seafloor using a hydraulic hammer. A massive vessel comes

1543
01:27:14,520 --> 01:27:19,840
Speaker 2: out there, holds itself. The vessel has like a power

1544
01:27:19,880 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 2: pole to hold you in place, but on a much

1545
01:27:22,080 --> 01:27:27,040
Speaker 2: bigger scale. Right, They anchor themselves and then they drive

1546
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:30,639
Speaker 2: them in and then around the base and this comes

1547
01:27:30,640 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 2: into the fish habitat. Piece. To prevent what we call scour,

1548
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:39,040
Speaker 2: they put scour protection. Scour is the idea that sediment

1549
01:27:39,640 --> 01:27:43,320
Speaker 2: will move or road because of currents and tides and

1550
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:45,200
Speaker 2: things washing by. So if you go to the beach,

1551
01:27:45,200 --> 01:27:47,400
Speaker 2: take your shoes off, walk into the waves and just

1552
01:27:47,479 --> 01:27:50,400
Speaker 2: stand there let the waves wash around your feet. You

1553
01:27:50,479 --> 01:27:53,960
Speaker 2: become destabilized as the sand erodes from the pressure of

1554
01:27:53,960 --> 01:27:56,519
Speaker 2: your feet pressing down on it. Same thing happens at

1555
01:27:56,560 --> 01:28:00,360
Speaker 2: a much larger scale offshore. So they put rock or

1556
01:28:00,479 --> 01:28:03,840
Speaker 2: rubble around the base in a doughnut, around the base

1557
01:28:03,880 --> 01:28:06,680
Speaker 2: of the piling, and that can make the sound of

1558
01:28:06,680 --> 01:28:10,920
Speaker 2: that I know it, And that can extend let's see

1559
01:28:11,280 --> 01:28:15,639
Speaker 2: sixty to ninety feet maybe from the edge of the pole.

1560
01:28:16,160 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 2: It's a big donut.

1561
01:28:17,439 --> 01:28:19,120
Speaker 3: Where does that material come from?

1562
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:22,519
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. So the Nature Conservancy recently

1563
01:28:22,520 --> 01:28:25,400
Speaker 2: put out a report about different materials that can be

1564
01:28:25,479 --> 01:28:29,240
Speaker 2: used to enhance scour protection. And when I say enhance,

1565
01:28:29,280 --> 01:28:32,960
Speaker 2: I mean from an ecological standpoint, to maximize the amount

1566
01:28:32,960 --> 01:28:35,640
Speaker 2: of positive ecological benefit that we're getting out of this

1567
01:28:35,920 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 2: material that's being placed in the water. If left to

1568
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:43,760
Speaker 2: their own devices, the developers would rely on two criteria

1569
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 2: to decide what they're going to use as scour protection,

1570
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:50,080
Speaker 2: and those would be the cost of it. We want

1571
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:52,439
Speaker 2: to keep it cheat because these are ten billion dollar

1572
01:28:52,479 --> 01:28:56,200
Speaker 2: projects we're talking about, and does it accomplish our engineering objective?

1573
01:28:56,200 --> 01:28:58,080
Speaker 2: Does it do what it's supposed to do. So there's

1574
01:28:58,120 --> 01:29:01,040
Speaker 2: an opportunity here as we sit an inflection point on

1575
01:29:01,080 --> 01:29:02,880
Speaker 2: the build out of offshore wind with twenty four in

1576
01:29:02,920 --> 01:29:06,479
Speaker 2: the water almost you know, two thousand plus still to come,

1577
01:29:06,960 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 2: there's an opportunity to influence what material is being used

1578
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:13,920
Speaker 2: as scour protection. If we can demonstrate that there is

1579
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:16,559
Speaker 2: something to gain by switching it up. What they would

1580
01:29:16,680 --> 01:29:19,479
Speaker 2: use if left. Their advice would be like quarried rock.

1581
01:29:20,000 --> 01:29:22,640
Speaker 2: It would depend on your geography. It could be limestone,

1582
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,559
Speaker 2: could be grantite, whatever they get their hands on. Another

1583
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:29,760
Speaker 2: option is repurposed concrete. If somebody rebuilds a bridge or

1584
01:29:29,800 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 2: an overpass, all that material that's being busted up, you know,

1585
01:29:34,360 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 2: put that on a barge, take it out there. It works.

1586
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:40,479
Speaker 8: What's the lifespan of one of these things, and like

1587
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:43,120
Speaker 8: how long? What percentage of its life does it's been

1588
01:29:43,280 --> 01:29:44,479
Speaker 8: just trying to pay for itself.

1589
01:29:45,400 --> 01:29:49,479
Speaker 2: So the leases are generally for twenty five to thirty years.

1590
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:54,800
Speaker 2: Most wind turbines pay for themselves within six months or

1591
01:29:54,800 --> 01:29:59,360
Speaker 2: a year. What, yeah, man, that's efficient?

1592
01:29:59,520 --> 01:30:01,200
Speaker 3: Is that the same with the ones that we see

1593
01:30:01,400 --> 01:30:02,760
Speaker 3: on out here in the west.

1594
01:30:02,840 --> 01:30:05,320
Speaker 1: Belief cell, Yeah, I could believe it there more and

1595
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:07,240
Speaker 1: I could believe what you're talking about that just seems

1596
01:30:07,240 --> 01:30:09,360
Speaker 1: like a bigger pain in the ass, building it out

1597
01:30:09,360 --> 01:30:11,200
Speaker 1: in the ocean, big pain.

1598
01:30:11,080 --> 01:30:11,679
Speaker 2: In the ass.

1599
01:30:12,400 --> 01:30:16,280
Speaker 8: What happens at the end of that twenty five years, We're.

1600
01:30:16,080 --> 01:30:18,840
Speaker 2: Not really sure. So I know you guys have spearfished

1601
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:22,479
Speaker 2: around the remains of oil and gas platforms in the

1602
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:24,120
Speaker 2: Gulf of Mexico. There's a program now.

1603
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:25,920
Speaker 1: Which is hilarious because can I get kind of lay

1604
01:30:25,960 --> 01:30:33,480
Speaker 1: this out? Really, there's thousands and the golf there are

1605
01:30:33,520 --> 01:30:36,200
Speaker 1: just like you're talking about thousands, twenty three hundred roughly

1606
01:30:36,680 --> 01:30:43,240
Speaker 1: in the goal. There are thousands of oil platforms from

1607
01:30:43,439 --> 01:30:46,280
Speaker 1: offshore oil rigs and many of them are being retired.

1608
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 1: And so to kind of give a little bit of

1609
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:52,280
Speaker 1: a window into where this conversation is going around this

1610
01:30:52,360 --> 01:30:58,120
Speaker 1: wind development, is these oil rigs made.

1611
01:30:57,880 --> 01:30:58,920
Speaker 2: The golf bloom.

1612
01:30:59,280 --> 01:31:05,599
Speaker 1: I mean, the oil rigs created a fishery. You're shaking

1613
01:31:05,600 --> 01:31:10,800
Speaker 1: your head. They altered they created a fishery. Now there's

1614
01:31:10,840 --> 01:31:13,679
Speaker 1: a debate around. People are saying, well, now that they're here,

1615
01:31:14,880 --> 01:31:20,439
Speaker 1: please leave them here, because it they generate so much fish,

1616
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:23,960
Speaker 1: they create so much habitat, they create all these vertical reefs,

1617
01:31:25,120 --> 01:31:28,120
Speaker 1: and so now people that might have lamented them coming

1618
01:31:28,200 --> 01:31:33,960
Speaker 1: in because of the disturbance, increased boat traffic, pollution, are

1619
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:37,240
Speaker 1: now have gotten used to them. The fishery is built

1620
01:31:37,320 --> 01:31:42,320
Speaker 1: up around them. Anglers have gotten that's how they fish.

1621
01:31:42,960 --> 01:31:47,400
Speaker 1: And now they're fighting to keep some not everybody. Some

1622
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:49,720
Speaker 1: people are fighting to keep the rigs in place to

1623
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 1: preserve the fishery that the rigs.

1624
01:31:51,800 --> 01:31:54,599
Speaker 2: Created, and that's likely to happen with offshore wind too.

1625
01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:57,560
Speaker 2: The fight. I don't know all those fights, and I

1626
01:31:58,120 --> 01:32:02,639
Speaker 2: don't know. No one knows what's going to happen twenty

1627
01:32:02,640 --> 01:32:05,800
Speaker 2: five to thirty years from now, the decommissioning thing. At

1628
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:10,519
Speaker 2: this point, I believe that technically that the fine print

1629
01:32:10,640 --> 01:32:12,760
Speaker 2: says that the developer will take it down to the

1630
01:32:12,760 --> 01:32:15,840
Speaker 2: substrate and leave it looking like it did before they

1631
01:32:15,840 --> 01:32:19,280
Speaker 2: got there, which means removing all that scour protection material.

1632
01:32:19,320 --> 01:32:21,599
Speaker 1: To a body mind said, when they remove an oil

1633
01:32:21,680 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 1: rig in the golf, he said, it's not even a

1634
01:32:23,360 --> 01:32:24,360
Speaker 1: beer can down there.

1635
01:32:24,640 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, probably cleaner leave no trace.

1636
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:29,000
Speaker 1: No, it's like they come in with like high test

1637
01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:31,639
Speaker 1: sownar and when they're done, there's nothing nothing. It's cut

1638
01:32:31,680 --> 01:32:33,679
Speaker 1: off wave below the surface and everything's gone.

1639
01:32:33,960 --> 01:32:36,479
Speaker 2: And think of the expense and think of the loss

1640
01:32:36,520 --> 01:32:40,160
Speaker 2: of what may very well be extraordinarily valuable fish habitat.

1641
01:32:40,600 --> 01:32:43,200
Speaker 2: So that's a fight that we're probably going to have

1642
01:32:43,479 --> 01:32:46,360
Speaker 2: in twenty five or thirty years. And how much of

1643
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:50,320
Speaker 2: a fight that is, I don't know. But the opportunity

1644
01:32:50,320 --> 01:32:54,559
Speaker 2: that we have now is to demonstrate whether these are

1645
01:32:54,920 --> 01:32:57,720
Speaker 2: valuable habitat, and in all likelihood for certain species they

1646
01:32:57,760 --> 01:33:01,479
Speaker 2: will be. Whether they produce new and animals or simply

1647
01:33:01,520 --> 01:33:05,639
Speaker 2: attract animals from elsewhere is a matter of open debate.

1648
01:33:08,520 --> 01:33:12,080
Speaker 2: My suspicion is that two thousand plus of these structures

1649
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:17,040
Speaker 2: we will see for certain species and uptick in production

1650
01:33:17,120 --> 01:33:21,599
Speaker 2: of animals, especially species that are habitat limited or recruitment limited.

1651
01:33:22,360 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 2: Black sea bass for example, might be one. But where

1652
01:33:27,960 --> 01:33:31,960
Speaker 2: we are right now is that this whole thing is

1653
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:34,479
Speaker 2: in its infancy, and we haven't.

1654
01:33:34,360 --> 01:33:36,840
Speaker 1: Well, how in its infancy can it be? If it's

1655
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:39,320
Speaker 1: gonna be it's twenty twenty.

1656
01:33:39,120 --> 01:33:43,280
Speaker 2: Four, right. What I mean is we're any.

1657
01:33:43,000 --> 01:33:44,679
Speaker 1: Time how many by two thousand and thirty?

1658
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:45,799
Speaker 2: What couple thousand?

1659
01:33:45,960 --> 01:33:47,040
Speaker 1: Okay, well it can't be that.

1660
01:33:47,200 --> 01:33:50,120
Speaker 2: I mean. What I mean is it's in infancy for.

1661
01:33:50,160 --> 01:33:51,799
Speaker 1: Us six years to build a couple thousands.

1662
01:33:51,920 --> 01:33:56,240
Speaker 2: But from a scientific study standpoint, we don't have any large,

1663
01:33:56,400 --> 01:33:59,960
Speaker 2: full scale operational turbines that can be used when far

1664
01:34:00,240 --> 01:34:02,639
Speaker 2: that can be used as a study location.

1665
01:34:02,920 --> 01:34:05,320
Speaker 1: So the biology is in its infancy, or the ecology

1666
01:34:05,360 --> 01:34:06,280
Speaker 1: is in its infancy.

1667
01:34:06,360 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 2: Correct. And there's a lot of money going into collecting

1668
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 2: before data right now as we're in the for many

1669
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:14,719
Speaker 2: of these leases, in the waning hours of the before

1670
01:34:14,760 --> 01:34:20,240
Speaker 2: period m hm, we're trying to scrape together data that

1671
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:25,160
Speaker 2: will be valuable comparison down the line when these wind

1672
01:34:25,200 --> 01:34:27,040
Speaker 2: farms are fully built out.

1673
01:34:27,880 --> 01:34:29,679
Speaker 1: Man, imagine if they had done that in a really

1674
01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:32,400
Speaker 1: good way in the goal of Mexico, how valuable that

1675
01:34:32,439 --> 01:34:33,719
Speaker 1: information would be now.

1676
01:34:35,520 --> 01:34:36,360
Speaker 2: I can imagine.

1677
01:34:36,479 --> 01:34:38,200
Speaker 1: So if you could go like, well, let's take a

1678
01:34:38,200 --> 01:34:40,400
Speaker 1: look now that it's all done, let's take a look

1679
01:34:40,400 --> 01:34:41,799
Speaker 1: at what we want and what we lost.

1680
01:34:41,960 --> 01:34:44,120
Speaker 2: Yep. And so a lot of a lot of scientific

1681
01:34:44,160 --> 01:34:46,480
Speaker 2: a lot of really cool fisheries work being done.

1682
01:34:46,800 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 4: When you compare this to oil rigs providing habitat and

1683
01:34:55,760 --> 01:35:01,479
Speaker 4: like fishing around defunct oil rigs, is there like is

1684
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:05,280
Speaker 4: there gonna be travel restrictions in these areas for like

1685
01:35:05,439 --> 01:35:09,840
Speaker 4: the average recreational fishermen like wanting to run right under

1686
01:35:10,120 --> 01:35:12,479
Speaker 4: an operational because you can tie off.

1687
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:15,479
Speaker 5: Well, that's said you can't touch them. And I was like,

1688
01:35:15,520 --> 01:35:17,519
Speaker 5: there should be anchor points on there so you can

1689
01:35:17,520 --> 01:35:18,760
Speaker 5: put your bungee line on there.

1690
01:35:19,040 --> 01:35:21,600
Speaker 2: You're not supposed to touch them. My understanding is that

1691
01:35:21,640 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 2: there won't. My understanding is there won't be any restrictions

1692
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:28,559
Speaker 2: as far as how close you can get. Now, there

1693
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:31,920
Speaker 2: may be, there may be. There may be day to

1694
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:34,920
Speaker 2: day restrictions. If there's a maintenance of something going on

1695
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:39,559
Speaker 2: on a specific turbine, the developer won't allow you to

1696
01:35:39,560 --> 01:35:43,120
Speaker 2: get up to it. But by and large, I think

1697
01:35:43,600 --> 01:35:46,559
Speaker 2: the recreational fleet or the charter fleet, or any hooking

1698
01:35:46,640 --> 01:35:49,519
Speaker 2: line vessel will be able to transit right up into

1699
01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:52,200
Speaker 2: that scour protection, right up into the good habitat.

1700
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:56,040
Speaker 1: They need to get real clear on that point. If

1701
01:35:56,080 --> 01:35:57,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna want fishermen to buy in on it, you're

1702
01:35:57,920 --> 01:36:00,400
Speaker 1: gonna have to really clarify that point. And I would say,

1703
01:36:00,400 --> 01:36:02,080
Speaker 1: put a couple of mooring cleats on the side of

1704
01:36:02,120 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 1: that thing.

1705
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 2: I'll uh yeah, I'll place a call to the cleats.

1706
01:36:06,720 --> 01:36:08,920
Speaker 8: In twenty twenty one, Joe Soimelli Road an article on

1707
01:36:08,960 --> 01:36:12,439
Speaker 8: the media dot com about wind turbines off the coast

1708
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:16,759
Speaker 8: of New Jersey and the Atlantic Shores manager Doug Colpland said,

1709
01:36:16,920 --> 01:36:19,280
Speaker 8: you're welcome to fish by the structures. We just asked

1710
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:21,559
Speaker 8: that you don't tie up to them. And in general

1711
01:36:21,560 --> 01:36:23,519
Speaker 8: it seemed like they were like kind of supportive of

1712
01:36:23,640 --> 01:36:26,120
Speaker 8: like yeah, like come hang around him, just like, don't

1713
01:36:26,160 --> 01:36:26,559
Speaker 8: touch them.

1714
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:28,639
Speaker 2: And they are supportive, and they have to be because

1715
01:36:28,640 --> 01:36:31,759
Speaker 2: it's this is a collaborative process in which the public

1716
01:36:31,800 --> 01:36:34,400
Speaker 2: is engaged and they need as many of the stakeholders

1717
01:36:34,400 --> 01:36:36,519
Speaker 2: and stakeholder groups on their side as they can get.

1718
01:36:36,640 --> 01:36:39,120
Speaker 4: They should set up some bait and tackle shops out there.

1719
01:36:39,640 --> 01:36:43,120
Speaker 6: I want that, Yeah, that floating barge and feed, so I.

1720
01:36:43,120 --> 01:36:45,599
Speaker 1: Could get on board, Like from the access point, that's

1721
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:49,280
Speaker 1: a compromise. I could see fisher you want. Don't touch

1722
01:36:49,320 --> 01:36:51,639
Speaker 1: it seems fair. If it winds up being like don't

1723
01:36:51,640 --> 01:36:53,639
Speaker 1: go near it, you can't be within two hundred yards

1724
01:36:53,640 --> 01:36:54,720
Speaker 1: of it, I feel like that's going.

1725
01:36:54,720 --> 01:36:56,320
Speaker 2: To cause a lot of tension. I don't think we're

1726
01:36:56,320 --> 01:36:59,120
Speaker 2: going to see that though, And I like the idea

1727
01:36:59,160 --> 01:37:01,639
Speaker 2: of a tackle shop up out there. I was thinking

1728
01:37:01,680 --> 01:37:04,040
Speaker 2: on Sunday when I was fishing underneath them that I

1729
01:37:04,080 --> 01:37:08,960
Speaker 2: was putting tags on fish. Oh, we're asking for so

1730
01:37:09,160 --> 01:37:11,639
Speaker 2: you know, with tagging studies sometimes you ask the angling

1731
01:37:11,680 --> 01:37:14,000
Speaker 2: public to participate in some way, either call the tag

1732
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:16,200
Speaker 2: in or release the fish. In this case, we're asking

1733
01:37:16,200 --> 01:37:18,840
Speaker 2: people to release the animals. I was thinking it'd be

1734
01:37:18,840 --> 01:37:20,280
Speaker 2: great to get the developer to let us put a

1735
01:37:20,280 --> 01:37:22,640
Speaker 2: big billboard up there, big sign says hey, if you

1736
01:37:22,640 --> 01:37:25,519
Speaker 2: catch fish looks like this, got a red streamer tag

1737
01:37:25,560 --> 01:37:28,160
Speaker 2: on it and a little electronic transmitter hanging off of it,

1738
01:37:28,600 --> 01:37:30,439
Speaker 2: would you please do us the favor of tossing that

1739
01:37:30,479 --> 01:37:31,840
Speaker 2: one back? Got it?

1740
01:37:32,479 --> 01:37:32,559
Speaker 7: So?

1741
01:37:32,760 --> 01:37:36,120
Speaker 5: Is there a big gripe from the commercial fishery here?

1742
01:37:36,160 --> 01:37:41,840
Speaker 5: Like where I mean there's We're haven't gotten nearly as

1743
01:37:41,840 --> 01:37:45,000
Speaker 5: contentious as with putting this stuff in good bird habitat,

1744
01:37:45,040 --> 01:37:45,800
Speaker 5: buck habitat.

1745
01:37:45,880 --> 01:37:48,120
Speaker 3: So like we got to get back to the fight here.

1746
01:37:48,200 --> 01:37:51,000
Speaker 3: What's Yeah, it's all positive.

1747
01:37:51,600 --> 01:37:55,479
Speaker 1: That's what I want to return again to my the

1748
01:37:55,520 --> 01:37:59,880
Speaker 1: oil development and the golf. The shrimpers didn't like them.

1749
01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:06,960
Speaker 1: No different different critters, just the amount of debris they're

1750
01:38:07,040 --> 01:38:09,639
Speaker 1: after something totally different. Shrimp don't care about the rigs.

1751
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:11,600
Speaker 1: It's all that much more debris. It's more stuff you

1752
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:16,840
Speaker 1: got to avoid. So like winners losers, red snaper dudes, winners,

1753
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:18,200
Speaker 1: shrimpers losers.

1754
01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:22,360
Speaker 2: And there's uh an important parallel in the Atlantic too.

1755
01:38:22,680 --> 01:38:25,920
Speaker 2: You're right that the there are commercial sectors of the

1756
01:38:25,920 --> 01:38:30,280
Speaker 2: fishing industry that aren't enthusiastic about some of these wind farms,

1757
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:36,920
Speaker 2: especially the toad gear trawlers, uh, scallops.

1758
01:38:36,720 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 4: Bottom clams like bottom trawlers.

1759
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:45,200
Speaker 2: Yep, and the trawling for invertebrates. Yeah five alums. Uh,

1760
01:38:45,560 --> 01:38:47,360
Speaker 2: they're not enthusiastic.

1761
01:38:47,040 --> 01:38:48,600
Speaker 1: When that's not the I mean, I don't want to

1762
01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:53,960
Speaker 1: cast judgment, but that's not always the friendliest.

1763
01:38:53,040 --> 01:38:54,720
Speaker 2: The ones that I know a great guys, I don't

1764
01:38:54,720 --> 01:38:59,960
Speaker 2: mean friendly, like not great guys. They get, they get,

1765
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:01,600
Speaker 2: they catch it.

1766
01:39:01,720 --> 01:39:03,960
Speaker 4: They indiscriminate.

1767
01:39:04,640 --> 01:39:06,240
Speaker 1: If you go talk to you an anglers having a

1768
01:39:06,280 --> 01:39:07,640
Speaker 1: bad day of ficient and go like, what do you

1769
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:09,240
Speaker 1: think is the main reason you're having a bad.

1770
01:39:09,200 --> 01:39:14,840
Speaker 2: Day of fision, he might say, well, Okay, this is

1771
01:39:14,840 --> 01:39:16,120
Speaker 2: a discussion for another time.

1772
01:39:17,360 --> 01:39:19,639
Speaker 1: I mean to talk about how people blame their bad

1773
01:39:19,680 --> 01:39:20,719
Speaker 1: day officient and stuff.

1774
01:39:20,920 --> 01:39:25,519
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, and I just said it's a discussion for

1775
01:39:25,520 --> 01:39:27,479
Speaker 2: another time. But I'll say one thing on, which is

1776
01:39:27,479 --> 01:39:31,000
Speaker 2: that for some species of fin fish, the recreational sector

1777
01:39:31,040 --> 01:39:33,960
Speaker 2: is a responsible for the majority of the mortality, not

1778
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 2: the commercial sectors. What we want to hear about that,

1779
01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:37,599
Speaker 2: that's not what we're talking about here, because we're talking

1780
01:39:37,640 --> 01:39:42,479
Speaker 2: about trawlers who are potentially upset about wind farms and

1781
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:46,479
Speaker 2: on that topic they may have a case. Uh. And

1782
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:53,040
Speaker 2: to that end, developers are offering let me think about

1783
01:39:53,040 --> 01:39:55,920
Speaker 2: how to phrase this, the developers that are at that

1784
01:39:56,000 --> 01:40:00,960
Speaker 2: stage now are offering compensatory mitigation to commercial fishermen who

1785
01:40:01,000 --> 01:40:08,439
Speaker 2: can demonstrate certain criteria. For example, within timeframe A to B,

1786
01:40:09,600 --> 01:40:14,559
Speaker 2: I drew ex revenue from the area that's within your lease,

1787
01:40:14,720 --> 01:40:18,280
Speaker 2: I'll pay you not to fish exactly. Well, I'm going

1788
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:20,599
Speaker 2: to pay you because you can no longer fish here,

1789
01:40:20,960 --> 01:40:23,760
Speaker 2: but you can continue fishing elsewhere. So there's actually a

1790
01:40:23,800 --> 01:40:26,800
Speaker 2: financial opportunity here for these people because they can draw

1791
01:40:26,840 --> 01:40:29,120
Speaker 2: two revenues, one from their usual job and then they

1792
01:40:29,120 --> 01:40:31,920
Speaker 2: can catch the check from where they used to fish.

1793
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:35,519
Speaker 2: It's more complex than that an individual basis, but in

1794
01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:39,240
Speaker 2: any case, there is there is mitigation involved for the

1795
01:40:39,280 --> 01:40:41,320
Speaker 2: commercial angler. The commercial fishermen who.

1796
01:40:41,160 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 5: Are yeah, yeah, I mean we can we can assume

1797
01:40:44,040 --> 01:40:46,679
Speaker 5: two ways. Right, it's pretty easy to prove your bad fishermen.

1798
01:40:48,520 --> 01:40:50,920
Speaker 2: Well. One other thing to mention is that, just like

1799
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:56,320
Speaker 2: with on land renewable development, the sighting of offshore wind

1800
01:40:56,760 --> 01:40:59,800
Speaker 2: is an iterative process that takes into account things like

1801
01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:03,720
Speaker 2: where people are fishing. Okay, we're always looking for the

1802
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:08,240
Speaker 2: lowest impact. We're always looking to put the energy infrastructure

1803
01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:12,960
Speaker 2: in the places where we weren't using that location for

1804
01:41:13,840 --> 01:41:14,880
Speaker 2: a whole lot of other stuff.

1805
01:41:24,400 --> 01:41:28,960
Speaker 1: When it comes down to onshore wind development, you're looking

1806
01:41:29,000 --> 01:41:33,120
Speaker 1: for these places that are you know, these high wind

1807
01:41:33,120 --> 01:41:36,280
Speaker 1: plateaus or whatever. Right, there's a micro site selection.

1808
01:41:36,439 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a resource and you want to extra.

1809
01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:40,680
Speaker 1: You'd be like, you know, you can't just put one

1810
01:41:40,720 --> 01:41:42,880
Speaker 1: anywhere you want one, and it has like very consistent

1811
01:41:43,960 --> 01:41:47,200
Speaker 1: wind windy spots right kind of areas to develop, you know,

1812
01:41:47,240 --> 01:41:50,479
Speaker 1: it can't have like huge topographical features, right, Right, So

1813
01:41:50,960 --> 01:41:55,120
Speaker 1: is the Atlantic is the Atlantic Coast? Does it have

1814
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:59,080
Speaker 1: all these sort of micro wind channels or does it

1815
01:41:59,080 --> 01:42:02,720
Speaker 1: wind up being more a sort of more ubiquitous constant

1816
01:42:02,760 --> 01:42:04,320
Speaker 1: wind no matter where.

1817
01:42:04,120 --> 01:42:06,360
Speaker 2: You go, it's in between that. Okay. I don't think

1818
01:42:06,360 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 2: it's as micro as on land, where you have topography,

1819
01:42:11,240 --> 01:42:15,040
Speaker 2: ain't much topography twenty seven miles from shore, but you

1820
01:42:15,120 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 2: do have areas that are windier than others, consistently windier

1821
01:42:19,360 --> 01:42:23,360
Speaker 2: than others. The New England, the northeast is consistently windy.

1822
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:26,479
Speaker 2: That's where a lot of off shore wind's gonna wind up.

1823
01:42:26,520 --> 01:42:29,400
Speaker 2: But we're talking about sort of large.

1824
01:42:29,720 --> 01:42:32,640
Speaker 1: You have large areas that are consistently windy, not like

1825
01:42:32,680 --> 01:42:35,120
Speaker 1: little teeny pockets that are consistently windy.

1826
01:42:35,200 --> 01:42:37,080
Speaker 2: Yeah that's right, Yeah, yep. And when you get that

1827
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:39,040
Speaker 2: far from shore, that's right. Uh.

1828
01:42:39,520 --> 01:42:42,439
Speaker 1: Let's talk about winters and losers, all right, from a

1829
01:42:42,439 --> 01:42:48,479
Speaker 1: species standpoint, Yeah, humans winners? Yeah, what what's your guess on?

1830
01:42:49,439 --> 01:42:49,559
Speaker 2: Uh?

1831
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:53,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, right, Whales, sword and fish like whatever?

1832
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:57,679
Speaker 3: Like who who's a big part of the this sucks?

1833
01:42:59,080 --> 01:43:04,360
Speaker 2: I'll address cows. Comment about birds. So it's hard to

1834
01:43:04,400 --> 01:43:09,080
Speaker 2: avoid migratory pathways. When migratory pathways run through the Atlantic,

1835
01:43:10,000 --> 01:43:13,040
Speaker 2: a lot of these wind farms are likely to be

1836
01:43:13,360 --> 01:43:19,240
Speaker 2: in places that historically have been migratory pathways for some species.

1837
01:43:20,720 --> 01:43:22,920
Speaker 2: So I want to just real quick talk about this

1838
01:43:22,960 --> 01:43:25,400
Speaker 2: study that my colleagues at TNC Virginia are doing. Where

1839
01:43:25,400 --> 01:43:29,120
Speaker 2: they're putting satellite altimeter tags on a couple species of

1840
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:33,960
Speaker 2: shore birds altimeter, meaning we get the altitude of the

1841
01:43:33,960 --> 01:43:37,240
Speaker 2: animal in addition to the lat loan. That's interesting and

1842
01:43:37,280 --> 01:43:40,320
Speaker 2: it's super It's three dimensional, right, it's three dimensional. It's

1843
01:43:40,800 --> 01:43:45,719
Speaker 2: critical to know that information because you could say, oh, well,

1844
01:43:46,080 --> 01:43:49,200
Speaker 2: fifty percent of the wimberles that we tagged went right

1845
01:43:49,240 --> 01:43:54,360
Speaker 2: through this wind farm area and think that, hey, maybe

1846
01:43:55,040 --> 01:43:57,519
Speaker 2: we need to not build it there because this is

1847
01:43:57,560 --> 01:44:01,559
Speaker 2: critical for the migratory pathway. But without knowing how far

1848
01:44:01,600 --> 01:44:04,000
Speaker 2: off the surface of the ocean those animals are relative

1849
01:44:04,080 --> 01:44:05,360
Speaker 2: to where those turbines are.

1850
01:44:05,479 --> 01:44:08,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, what does that mean? Yeah, I can see that.

1851
01:44:08,520 --> 01:44:09,880
Speaker 1: That's not something it would have occurred to me.

1852
01:44:09,960 --> 01:44:14,080
Speaker 2: But yeah, and so nailing down again, it's about building

1853
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:17,120
Speaker 2: that foundation of scientific knowledge such that we can reduce

1854
01:44:17,160 --> 01:44:20,880
Speaker 2: the impacts as much as possible to all species, including birds.

1855
01:44:21,000 --> 01:44:24,000
Speaker 1: Give me a couple of species that are out twenty

1856
01:44:24,040 --> 01:44:27,639
Speaker 1: some miles off cruising through fish species.

1857
01:44:27,720 --> 01:44:29,760
Speaker 2: No birds, Give me a couple of birds. Oh man,

1858
01:44:29,920 --> 01:44:35,920
Speaker 2: I'm not a Yeah, gannets, mers, razor bills depending on

1859
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:40,720
Speaker 2: the time of year, a lot of let's see sheer waters,

1860
01:44:41,360 --> 01:44:43,880
Speaker 2: things like that. I'm less of a burder than I

1861
01:44:43,920 --> 01:44:48,519
Speaker 2: am a fishermansood sort of armchair ornithologist. You know why.

1862
01:44:48,840 --> 01:44:50,519
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a little something about sheer waters. I

1863
01:44:50,560 --> 01:44:54,679
Speaker 1: don't know if you're much into etymology. Okay, he's sheer

1864
01:44:54,680 --> 01:44:58,560
Speaker 1: in the water. I can tell you where he's at.

1865
01:44:59,320 --> 01:45:00,840
Speaker 1: That's right, he's licking it.

1866
01:45:01,120 --> 01:45:03,920
Speaker 2: Yep. So you know there's a lot there's a lot

1867
01:45:03,920 --> 01:45:05,800
Speaker 2: of birds out there, a lot of different species, and

1868
01:45:05,840 --> 01:45:09,360
Speaker 2: that that's some maybe winners. In fact, you know, there's

1869
01:45:09,760 --> 01:45:15,000
Speaker 2: speculation that the habitat created by offshore winterbines will create

1870
01:45:15,120 --> 01:45:21,960
Speaker 2: good forage for birds that eat fish, got and invertebrates. Yeah, same,

1871
01:45:21,960 --> 01:45:25,759
Speaker 2: it is true. Submarine mammals, smarine mammals, harbor seals, gray

1872
01:45:25,800 --> 01:45:28,880
Speaker 2: seals in the North Sea. I think I have those

1873
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:34,680
Speaker 2: species right have started feeding around wind platforms. They go

1874
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:38,840
Speaker 2: right to him. God, but you got that all that activity,

1875
01:45:39,680 --> 01:45:42,240
Speaker 2: a little food chain in there. It's an oasis. Yeah,

1876
01:45:43,400 --> 01:45:44,519
Speaker 2: so what about go ahead, bro?

1877
01:45:44,880 --> 01:45:51,040
Speaker 3: No one that was drew in a breath of air

1878
01:45:51,120 --> 01:45:55,320
Speaker 3: to ask a question. Do they ever think talk about

1879
01:45:55,479 --> 01:45:58,639
Speaker 3: like you was talking about, to prevent the scouring effect,

1880
01:45:59,120 --> 01:46:02,439
Speaker 3: you do this thing, it creates some habitat, Like is

1881
01:46:02,439 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 3: there's someone else going like, oh, well, here's ten other

1882
01:46:05,520 --> 01:46:08,639
Speaker 3: things that you guys could also do and it might

1883
01:46:08,640 --> 01:46:13,479
Speaker 3: not even be beneficial to the turbine turbine, Yeah, but

1884
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:15,720
Speaker 3: it's going to be really beneficial. It's all these things

1885
01:46:15,720 --> 01:46:16,679
Speaker 3: that swim around here.

1886
01:46:16,760 --> 01:46:18,479
Speaker 1: I like where you're going there totally hey while you're

1887
01:46:18,479 --> 01:46:18,920
Speaker 1: out there.

1888
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we have there's a process where from an

1889
01:46:24,680 --> 01:46:27,599
Speaker 2: impact standpoint, the first thing you want to do is avoid,

1890
01:46:28,840 --> 01:46:32,160
Speaker 2: Then you want to minimize, then you want to mitigate, right,

1891
01:46:32,680 --> 01:46:37,040
Speaker 2: and so that hierarchy is coming into play with all

1892
01:46:37,080 --> 01:46:42,920
Speaker 2: of these construction projects. There may be mitigation that these

1893
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 2: developers can partake in that would result in things like

1894
01:46:47,479 --> 01:46:51,360
Speaker 2: fishing opportunities. It might be scour protection enhancement, or it

1895
01:46:51,400 --> 01:46:54,960
Speaker 2: might be something that's off site from the wind farm

1896
01:46:55,240 --> 01:46:59,160
Speaker 2: but that they pay for, like oyster reef restoration or

1897
01:46:59,479 --> 01:47:03,679
Speaker 2: other habitat restoration still in the marine or estuarine environment

1898
01:47:04,360 --> 01:47:07,479
Speaker 2: and close ish to where the wind farm is off

1899
01:47:08,600 --> 01:47:11,639
Speaker 2: exactly but not necessarily at the wind farm.

1900
01:47:11,840 --> 01:47:15,479
Speaker 1: Have they kicked around drape sheathing those suckers and something

1901
01:47:15,520 --> 01:47:17,760
Speaker 1: that's really good for Bui valves to hang on to.

1902
01:47:19,680 --> 01:47:21,439
Speaker 2: Or don't they want bui a valve growth on.

1903
01:47:21,360 --> 01:47:23,599
Speaker 3: It, Yeah, like the drag or something.

1904
01:47:23,680 --> 01:47:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think they want a lot of bivalve

1905
01:47:25,840 --> 01:47:27,839
Speaker 2: growth on it. I think, you know, that can actually

1906
01:47:27,880 --> 01:47:32,519
Speaker 2: destabilize the structure. The amount of biomass you're talking about

1907
01:47:33,360 --> 01:47:36,880
Speaker 2: could destabilize the structure. So I think they're they're actually

1908
01:47:36,960 --> 01:47:40,320
Speaker 2: cleaning bi valves off of certain parts of these things.

1909
01:47:40,720 --> 01:47:43,360
Speaker 1: Can I tell you something about the oil rigs. I

1910
01:47:43,439 --> 01:47:45,360
Speaker 1: just can't help but bring this background to oil rigs.

1911
01:47:45,400 --> 01:47:50,439
Speaker 1: Come on, those old oil rigs are encased in life. Yeah, no,

1912
01:47:50,479 --> 01:47:53,040
Speaker 1: one's when you put your hand on them, you can

1913
01:47:53,080 --> 01:47:58,360
Speaker 1: just sit there and break away and it's like barnacles,

1914
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:01,040
Speaker 1: but all these vacated barnacles that are full little fish,

1915
01:48:01,200 --> 01:48:03,160
Speaker 1: and you can actually sit there and crumble some of

1916
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:06,479
Speaker 1: that stuff and watch fish coming up from the depth.

1917
01:48:06,800 --> 01:48:09,760
Speaker 1: They just see it coming down and they're so used

1918
01:48:09,800 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 1: to just chunks of the stuff breaking off.

1919
01:48:11,640 --> 01:48:14,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're coming up to meet it. Use that as

1920
01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:16,519
Speaker 2: a little bait for your spearfish and extras.

1921
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:17,880
Speaker 1: They're encased in life.

1922
01:48:18,080 --> 01:48:21,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that'll happen if you leave something

1923
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:23,479
Speaker 2: in the ocean for a while. So if these wind

1924
01:48:23,479 --> 01:48:28,439
Speaker 2: turbine guys are listening, what's it like you fished under one.

1925
01:48:28,800 --> 01:48:32,720
Speaker 3: Now, I mean, that's obviously a very big part of

1926
01:48:32,760 --> 01:48:35,479
Speaker 3: the whole contentiousness of this whole thing, right, is what

1927
01:48:35,520 --> 01:48:37,439
Speaker 3: it looks like from shorts. I'd like you to speak

1928
01:48:37,479 --> 01:48:40,280
Speaker 3: to that, like the distance they put them out and

1929
01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:44,200
Speaker 3: how that's been worked on. But then when you're out there,

1930
01:48:44,680 --> 01:48:49,040
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously, like my some of my well one

1931
01:48:49,120 --> 01:48:51,200
Speaker 3: memory that I have now that my father in law

1932
01:48:51,320 --> 01:48:54,080
Speaker 3: is for years wanted us to go and do. He's like,

1933
01:48:54,120 --> 01:48:57,320
Speaker 3: you'll never experience a sunrise like the sunrise you experienced

1934
01:48:57,320 --> 01:49:00,760
Speaker 3: when you're fifty miles off shore. And he's right, like

1935
01:49:00,800 --> 01:49:03,320
Speaker 3: when that song breaks that horizon and there's just just

1936
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:04,920
Speaker 3: ocean around you, it's amazing.

1937
01:49:04,960 --> 01:49:05,559
Speaker 2: It's amazing.

1938
01:49:06,400 --> 01:49:09,439
Speaker 3: If you're in the middle or near a wind farm,

1939
01:49:09,439 --> 01:49:10,120
Speaker 3: it's not the same.

1940
01:49:10,960 --> 01:49:15,240
Speaker 2: I'm sure that's the case. I haven't experienced a sunrise

1941
01:49:15,320 --> 01:49:18,040
Speaker 2: on the on the seas underneath a wind farm. I've

1942
01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:23,120
Speaker 2: experienced it many times elsewhere. I would suspect that, But

1943
01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:26,320
Speaker 2: you get my point. I do get your point. There's

1944
01:49:26,320 --> 01:49:29,360
Speaker 2: nothing uglier than the wind farm.

1945
01:49:31,000 --> 01:49:31,799
Speaker 1: There's a building.

1946
01:49:31,840 --> 01:49:36,040
Speaker 2: I guess there's an aesthetic, there's an aesthetic loss of that,

1947
01:49:36,320 --> 01:49:38,280
Speaker 2: you know, it's that sunrise observation.

1948
01:49:39,439 --> 01:49:40,920
Speaker 1: That's part of why they want to put him way

1949
01:49:40,960 --> 01:49:41,599
Speaker 1: out right.

1950
01:49:41,880 --> 01:49:44,000
Speaker 2: That's part of it the whole because people don't so

1951
01:49:44,040 --> 01:49:44,400
Speaker 2: you don't.

1952
01:49:44,240 --> 01:49:47,720
Speaker 4: Have the nim's sayings a mile off shore of mon

1953
01:49:47,840 --> 01:49:49,200
Speaker 4: talk like.

1954
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:53,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you to like, oh no, we're going to put

1955
01:49:53,120 --> 01:49:55,000
Speaker 1: them right off shore in Nantok. You see how many

1956
01:49:55,000 --> 01:49:57,479
Speaker 1: people also aren't pro alternative energy.

1957
01:49:57,520 --> 01:50:00,720
Speaker 2: But you can see him from sure, you can, you can,

1958
01:50:00,920 --> 01:50:02,040
Speaker 2: but they're not big.

1959
01:50:02,160 --> 01:50:05,560
Speaker 8: So twenty seven miles out and they're big structures.

1960
01:50:05,720 --> 01:50:07,840
Speaker 2: Man, Yeah, you got the curvature of the earth, well

1961
01:50:07,840 --> 01:50:11,720
Speaker 2: depends on Yeah, that's so.

1962
01:50:11,840 --> 01:50:15,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, So what distance are they visible? Not visible?

1963
01:50:16,200 --> 01:50:18,000
Speaker 2: You can see him from short from twenty seven miles,

1964
01:50:18,000 --> 01:50:21,240
Speaker 2: but they're small and there's not much to them, and

1965
01:50:21,280 --> 01:50:24,200
Speaker 2: if they weren't moving, you would need a crystal clear

1966
01:50:24,280 --> 01:50:25,560
Speaker 2: day to even really know this.

1967
01:50:25,800 --> 01:50:27,639
Speaker 8: Do you have to look for him to find them?

1968
01:50:27,720 --> 01:50:30,519
Speaker 2: Or you're like very aware you'd have to look for

1969
01:50:30,600 --> 01:50:34,200
Speaker 2: him for sure. In fact, we took our first tagging

1970
01:50:34,200 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 2: trip for this project a couple of weeks ago, and

1971
01:50:38,400 --> 01:50:43,160
Speaker 2: the guy that I had volunteering to help me tag fish,

1972
01:50:43,280 --> 01:50:45,679
Speaker 2: he and I were in the hotel room in Virginia, beach.

1973
01:50:46,160 --> 01:50:49,880
Speaker 2: There's a fairly high floor. And we stood at the

1974
01:50:49,880 --> 01:50:51,560
Speaker 2: window and I said, oh, I see him. And it

1975
01:50:51,560 --> 01:50:57,360
Speaker 2: took him a minute. He's like, where man? Where? So?

1976
01:50:57,360 --> 01:50:59,920
Speaker 2: So what I would say is this might sound a

1977
01:51:00,000 --> 01:51:02,440
Speaker 2: little cynical, but if you want to observe a sunrise

1978
01:51:02,840 --> 01:51:07,360
Speaker 2: on the ocean near wind farm, just anchor up used

1979
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:11,120
Speaker 2: to the wind farm and then watch the sunrise in

1980
01:51:11,520 --> 01:51:15,040
Speaker 2: that direction. Mm that that state, it's not gonna go

1981
01:51:15,040 --> 01:51:15,439
Speaker 2: over well.

1982
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:20,600
Speaker 3: No, I mean when you're out there fishing underneath the

1983
01:51:20,600 --> 01:51:22,760
Speaker 3: wind farm, like what, after a day you're like, oh,

1984
01:51:22,800 --> 01:51:25,679
Speaker 3: it's just normal to have this big blade spinning above

1985
01:51:25,720 --> 01:51:26,120
Speaker 3: my hand.

1986
01:51:26,320 --> 01:51:29,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, after after the first couple of fish, you've forgotten

1987
01:51:29,160 --> 01:51:31,719
Speaker 2: about it. How loud is it? I can't hear it? Really.

1988
01:51:32,040 --> 01:51:34,040
Speaker 2: You might hear the wind rushing around the you know,

1989
01:51:34,360 --> 01:51:37,240
Speaker 2: you know, over the blades like anything. Yeah. Yeah. What

1990
01:51:37,360 --> 01:51:41,920
Speaker 2: about whales? Whales loving it or hating it? I han't asked,

1991
01:51:42,200 --> 01:51:44,000
Speaker 2: having asked the whales, how deep you want to get

1992
01:51:44,000 --> 01:51:49,040
Speaker 2: into this? To the bottom? You got the wrong guy. Okay,

1993
01:51:49,280 --> 01:51:50,240
Speaker 2: serves level whale.

1994
01:51:50,600 --> 01:51:53,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, let's say let's say all you remember earlier

1995
01:51:53,920 --> 01:51:56,720
Speaker 1: I said to that that I'm primarily interested in one thing.

1996
01:51:57,280 --> 01:52:01,360
Speaker 1: I'm primarily interested in, not in anything.

1997
01:52:00,840 --> 01:52:03,800
Speaker 2: That would pass up. Okay, let me put this way.

1998
01:52:04,760 --> 01:52:10,000
Speaker 1: My primary interest when it comes to conservation is sacrificing

1999
01:52:10,160 --> 01:52:17,679
Speaker 1: the least amount of acres of productive wildlife habitat. Yeah, okay,

2000
01:52:18,200 --> 01:52:21,000
Speaker 1: that's my primary Like I'd be like, my primary objective

2001
01:52:21,520 --> 01:52:25,880
Speaker 1: is saving productive wildlife habitat, whether it's a cattle ranch,

2002
01:52:26,000 --> 01:52:26,640
Speaker 1: whether it's a.

2003
01:52:28,200 --> 01:52:30,080
Speaker 2: Brushy ditch. I'm with you. Okay.

2004
01:52:30,800 --> 01:52:33,120
Speaker 1: If my whole thing was like, I'm a whale guy,

2005
01:52:34,040 --> 01:52:37,920
Speaker 1: top to bottom, all I care about is whales, would

2006
01:52:37,920 --> 01:52:40,799
Speaker 1: I be like real sweating it about these wind farms.

2007
01:52:41,120 --> 01:52:44,120
Speaker 2: I don't think so. It's been in the news a

2008
01:52:44,160 --> 01:52:51,599
Speaker 2: lot that allegedly offshore wind development is harming marine mammals.

2009
01:52:52,560 --> 01:52:57,439
Speaker 2: We're experiencing an unusual mortality event for whales on the

2010
01:52:57,479 --> 01:53:00,000
Speaker 2: East coast. Is it right whales or what does it happen?

2011
01:53:00,439 --> 01:53:04,160
Speaker 2: The North Atlantic right whale is an endangered species. There

2012
01:53:04,200 --> 01:53:07,840
Speaker 2: are something like three hundred and fifty animals left in existence.

2013
01:53:08,439 --> 01:53:12,320
Speaker 2: Humpback whales have also experienced unusual levels of mortality over

2014
01:53:12,360 --> 01:53:18,320
Speaker 2: the past eight years. It's extremely difficult to pin down

2015
01:53:18,439 --> 01:53:22,559
Speaker 2: the cause of mortality for a whale. One reason is

2016
01:53:23,280 --> 01:53:27,160
Speaker 2: you usually don't observe the whale until several days at

2017
01:53:27,240 --> 01:53:30,920
Speaker 2: least after it's perished. When they wash up dead, they

2018
01:53:30,960 --> 01:53:34,960
Speaker 2: were probably they probably expired many miles from the beach

2019
01:53:35,520 --> 01:53:39,400
Speaker 2: and various states of decomposition by the time they hit shore.

2020
01:53:40,520 --> 01:53:43,679
Speaker 2: A knee cropsy has performed on every stranded marine mammal

2021
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:46,720
Speaker 2: where it's possible to do so, and that includes North

2022
01:53:46,720 --> 01:53:51,360
Speaker 2: Atlantic right whales, it includes humpback whales in pursuit of

2023
01:53:53,040 --> 01:53:56,759
Speaker 2: clues to what might have caused the death of the animal.

2024
01:53:57,439 --> 01:54:04,280
Speaker 2: The majority of these animals bare signs of vessel strikes.

2025
01:54:05,040 --> 01:54:08,439
Speaker 2: Some of them bear signs of recent vessel strikes. And

2026
01:54:09,640 --> 01:54:12,280
Speaker 2: it could be blunt force trauma, it could be propeller marks,

2027
01:54:13,000 --> 01:54:17,120
Speaker 2: it could be broken bones from blunt force trauma. But

2028
01:54:17,280 --> 01:54:21,400
Speaker 2: good luck determining what vessel hit that whale because of

2029
01:54:22,840 --> 01:54:27,800
Speaker 2: time and space. So and how long is this going? Back?

2030
01:54:27,840 --> 01:54:31,920
Speaker 2: For the unusual mortality event was declared in twenty seventeen.

2031
01:54:32,120 --> 01:54:36,200
Speaker 2: It started in twenty sixteen. But there's no evidence that

2032
01:54:36,400 --> 01:54:43,600
Speaker 2: any offshore wind development. It was Trump that year you

2033
01:54:43,720 --> 01:54:48,040
Speaker 2: killed my SoundBite. There's no evidence that any offshore wind

2034
01:54:48,080 --> 01:54:54,400
Speaker 2: development has resulted in the death of even a single whale. Okay,

2035
01:54:54,440 --> 01:54:56,640
Speaker 2: but I mean you asked me how deep we want

2036
01:54:56,680 --> 01:54:58,080
Speaker 2: to go. We don't need to go terribly deep.

2037
01:54:58,120 --> 01:55:01,400
Speaker 1: But was there like a signific can increase in offshore

2038
01:55:01,440 --> 01:55:03,040
Speaker 1: wind development in twenty sixteen.

2039
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:06,440
Speaker 2: Well, remember, at the beginning of this part of the conversation,

2040
01:55:06,480 --> 01:55:08,920
Speaker 2: I told you it's only twenty four turbines in the ocean,

2041
01:55:08,960 --> 01:55:12,360
Speaker 2: and half of them were just built. So in twenty

2042
01:55:12,400 --> 01:55:16,880
Speaker 2: sixteen there were zero. Twenty sixteen there were zero. There

2043
01:55:17,080 --> 01:55:20,240
Speaker 2: was survey activity going on at the time, and it

2044
01:55:20,280 --> 01:55:23,840
Speaker 2: has been claimed that some of these survey boats, the

2045
01:55:24,440 --> 01:55:29,960
Speaker 2: survey gear could have disrupted or disturbed these whales in

2046
01:55:30,040 --> 01:55:35,000
Speaker 2: some way. Most of the doing seismic surveys, they're doing

2047
01:55:35,440 --> 01:55:39,680
Speaker 2: surveys with gear that is far quieter and a much

2048
01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:43,400
Speaker 2: higher frequency than the seismic surveys that are done for

2049
01:55:43,480 --> 01:55:47,400
Speaker 2: oil and gas. So this geotechnical and geophysical survey gear,

2050
01:55:47,920 --> 01:55:50,920
Speaker 2: most of it is actually outside the range of hearing

2051
01:55:51,560 --> 01:55:52,400
Speaker 2: of these whales.

2052
01:55:54,840 --> 01:55:57,240
Speaker 1: It's but blunt fords trauma you're talking about. They're physically

2053
01:55:57,280 --> 01:55:58,320
Speaker 1: getting banged.

2054
01:55:58,040 --> 01:56:00,960
Speaker 2: Up, yep. Okay, boats are hitting them.

2055
01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:03,920
Speaker 1: So it's not no one's speculating that it's the noise

2056
01:56:04,080 --> 01:56:08,760
Speaker 1: of the seismic survey that's it's being speculated, and I

2057
01:56:08,760 --> 01:56:10,440
Speaker 1: don't want to add any fuel to this fire.

2058
01:56:10,800 --> 01:56:16,040
Speaker 2: It's being speculated that the survey noise could have disrupted

2059
01:56:16,080 --> 01:56:19,920
Speaker 2: the normal activities of the whales instead that then eventually

2060
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:22,839
Speaker 2: resulted in put.

2061
01:56:22,160 --> 01:56:27,480
Speaker 5: Them in different channels like commercial channels that they disorient from.

2062
01:56:28,000 --> 01:56:30,000
Speaker 2: Right, and so a couple more things on the vessel

2063
01:56:30,040 --> 01:56:34,840
Speaker 2: strikes an offshore wind every offshore wind construction vessel and

2064
01:56:34,920 --> 01:56:40,560
Speaker 2: survey vessel is required and they do carry protected species observers,

2065
01:56:40,760 --> 01:56:46,520
Speaker 2: trained individuals who are looking for whales, dolphins, sea turtles,

2066
01:56:46,520 --> 01:56:50,480
Speaker 2: any protected species. All of those that I just mentioned

2067
01:56:50,480 --> 01:56:53,200
Speaker 2: are obligate air breathers. They got to come to the surface.

2068
01:56:54,840 --> 01:56:58,600
Speaker 2: If and when a protected species observer sees a marine mammal,

2069
01:56:58,680 --> 01:57:01,080
Speaker 2: they have the authority to up down the operation of

2070
01:57:01,080 --> 01:57:03,320
Speaker 2: that vessel, whether it's the survey gear, whether it's the engine,

2071
01:57:03,320 --> 01:57:05,880
Speaker 2: whether it's all the above, or divert course or pull

2072
01:57:05,920 --> 01:57:10,000
Speaker 2: it way back to neutral or whatever. Most vessels that

2073
01:57:10,040 --> 01:57:13,600
Speaker 2: are transiting or fishing or doing anything in the ocean

2074
01:57:13,640 --> 01:57:17,480
Speaker 2: do not have protected species observers on board. The argument

2075
01:57:17,520 --> 01:57:21,160
Speaker 2: could therefore be made that offshore wind vessels are less

2076
01:57:21,320 --> 01:57:24,800
Speaker 2: likely to strike marine mammals because of the presence of

2077
01:57:24,840 --> 01:57:29,480
Speaker 2: these trained individuals who are looking for protected species with

2078
01:57:29,560 --> 01:57:34,320
Speaker 2: the express purpose of reducing negative interactions with vessels.

2079
01:57:39,920 --> 01:57:42,720
Speaker 3: While you're thinking, Okay, how much how much wind does

2080
01:57:42,760 --> 01:57:46,000
Speaker 3: it take to spin a turbine? Turbine? Gosh, I don't

2081
01:57:46,040 --> 01:57:47,400
Speaker 3: know why you got that in my head.

2082
01:57:47,440 --> 01:57:49,920
Speaker 1: Now take that turbine right off the top.

2083
01:57:49,800 --> 01:57:52,440
Speaker 2: Of your head. I hear both ways all the time.

2084
01:57:53,320 --> 01:57:58,000
Speaker 2: They stop spinning below about five miles an hour. They

2085
01:57:58,000 --> 01:58:00,560
Speaker 2: could spin at that, but there's a break that stops

2086
01:58:00,600 --> 01:58:03,680
Speaker 2: them from spinning because it's a net loss of electricity

2087
01:58:03,720 --> 01:58:06,360
Speaker 2: to spin the blades. At that low level, they also

2088
01:58:06,400 --> 01:58:09,480
Speaker 2: shut down. I think above fifty five or sixty they

2089
01:58:09,560 --> 01:58:12,800
Speaker 2: just start spinning too fast and that not gonna work.

2090
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:17,960
Speaker 1: My kids like YouTube compilations of wind turbines falling apart and.

2091
01:58:19,680 --> 01:58:20,440
Speaker 2: Very very popular.

2092
01:58:21,560 --> 01:58:23,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to ask you a really complicated question. I'm ready,

2093
01:58:23,680 --> 01:58:24,800
Speaker 1: and you might have to do one of those things

2094
01:58:24,800 --> 01:58:26,120
Speaker 1: where you defer to your colleagues.

2095
01:58:26,200 --> 01:58:28,680
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm ready for that too.

2096
01:58:29,760 --> 01:58:33,440
Speaker 1: In discussing the border wall, oh God, to return to Trump.

2097
01:58:34,480 --> 01:58:40,840
Speaker 1: In discussing the border wall, I would often bring up, Okay, one, I.

2098
01:58:40,800 --> 01:58:42,840
Speaker 2: Believe we have a border crisis.

2099
01:58:44,080 --> 01:58:48,480
Speaker 1: The border wall makes me uneasy because of the wildlife impact.

2100
01:58:48,720 --> 01:58:50,280
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, mountain lions.

2101
01:58:50,160 --> 01:58:54,200
Speaker 1: Jaguars, mulitary analyope, whatever that. If you make an impenetrable

2102
01:58:54,240 --> 01:58:59,320
Speaker 1: barrier YEP, basically separating.

2103
01:59:00,480 --> 01:59:02,480
Speaker 2: Cutting the bottom third of our.

2104
01:59:02,400 --> 01:59:07,280
Speaker 1: Continent offp and you make an impenetrable land barrier isolating

2105
01:59:07,600 --> 01:59:11,800
Speaker 1: our portion of the continent from the rest of North America,

2106
01:59:12,160 --> 01:59:17,240
Speaker 1: Central America, South America from travel, and you look at

2107
01:59:17,440 --> 01:59:22,760
Speaker 1: the long, deep history of wildlife movements as well as

2108
01:59:22,800 --> 01:59:25,320
Speaker 1: the short history of the need for wildlife to move around.

2109
01:59:25,400 --> 01:59:27,360
Speaker 2: I get uneasy.

2110
01:59:27,520 --> 01:59:30,160
Speaker 1: People then go, well, your job hasn't been taken by

2111
01:59:30,240 --> 01:59:30,960
Speaker 1: an immigrant.

2112
01:59:31,520 --> 01:59:31,880
Speaker 2: Okay.

2113
01:59:32,600 --> 01:59:36,400
Speaker 1: I'm like, be that ad as it may. This is

2114
01:59:36,480 --> 01:59:39,680
Speaker 1: a thing to think about, Okay, it's a thing to

2115
01:59:39,760 --> 01:59:42,600
Speaker 1: think about, the same way if I said we're gonna

2116
01:59:42,640 --> 01:59:45,800
Speaker 1: go on family vacation and someone said, but that costs

2117
01:59:45,800 --> 01:59:49,120
Speaker 1: a lot of money, I would say, correct, that's a

2118
01:59:49,160 --> 01:59:53,360
Speaker 1: thing to think about in considering this though, We're gonna

2119
01:59:53,360 --> 01:59:56,840
Speaker 1: go on family vacation recognizing that it costs money.

2120
01:59:57,600 --> 01:59:57,960
Speaker 2: Okay.

2121
02:00:00,000 --> 02:00:05,080
Speaker 1: With whales, are you so confident in our need to

2122
02:00:05,120 --> 02:00:07,480
Speaker 1: do this that you would say, I get it, it

2123
02:00:07,560 --> 02:00:09,720
Speaker 1: sucks for whales, but we need to do this anyways.

2124
02:00:10,440 --> 02:00:15,760
Speaker 2: Are you there in our need to build offshore wind. Yeah?

2125
02:00:15,800 --> 02:00:17,720
Speaker 1: Would you be like, yeah, you know what, It's just

2126
02:00:17,760 --> 02:00:22,480
Speaker 1: like how we're blocking off jaguars, Like in pursuit of

2127
02:00:22,640 --> 02:00:26,080
Speaker 1: border security, we're going to kind of say goodbye jaguars

2128
02:00:27,040 --> 02:00:30,040
Speaker 1: in our country. Would you be like, would anybody say,

2129
02:00:30,120 --> 02:00:33,760
Speaker 1: in pursuit of alternative energy, goodbye the northern right whale.

2130
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:37,960
Speaker 2: I believe that the people who are best suited to

2131
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:41,200
Speaker 2: answer that question no, No, you don't think you think

2132
02:00:41,200 --> 02:00:43,440
Speaker 2: you know I'm going with this video are the ones

2133
02:00:43,480 --> 02:00:47,480
Speaker 2: who are involved in that decision making process. They are

2134
02:00:48,640 --> 02:00:52,960
Speaker 2: the scientists, the marine mammal scientists who have dedicated their

2135
02:00:53,000 --> 02:00:59,680
Speaker 2: careers to understanding the biology of these animals. They're the

2136
02:00:59,680 --> 02:01:04,880
Speaker 2: people who are doing Marine Mammal Protection Act consultations for

2137
02:01:04,920 --> 02:01:10,200
Speaker 2: the environmental impact statements for these projects. And if they

2138
02:01:10,200 --> 02:01:13,160
Speaker 2: thought the answer was no, if they thought the answer

2139
02:01:13,280 --> 02:01:18,520
Speaker 2: was building out offshore wind is going to drive a

2140
02:01:18,600 --> 02:01:23,200
Speaker 2: species to extinction, they would not play ball. You don't

2141
02:01:23,240 --> 02:01:26,320
Speaker 2: think so, No, these people, these people.

2142
02:01:26,200 --> 02:01:28,160
Speaker 1: Just counter that with how many species are going to

2143
02:01:28,200 --> 02:01:32,040
Speaker 1: go extinct. If we're if we change the climate faster

2144
02:01:32,120 --> 02:01:34,200
Speaker 1: than wildlife can adapt to it, how many species are

2145
02:01:34,200 --> 02:01:34,800
Speaker 1: going to go extinct?

2146
02:01:34,800 --> 02:01:39,440
Speaker 2: Anyways, there's a value judgment that is made when you're

2147
02:01:39,440 --> 02:01:45,480
Speaker 2: making that statement on which species are more important than others.

2148
02:01:46,000 --> 02:01:51,760
Speaker 2: That part of this process of the buildout of renewable

2149
02:01:51,840 --> 02:01:55,000
Speaker 2: energy is consulting with the people who are best qualified

2150
02:01:55,320 --> 02:02:01,200
Speaker 2: to make those determinations, and those determinations are being made,

2151
02:02:01,760 --> 02:02:04,760
Speaker 2: and it has been determined that the build out of

2152
02:02:05,080 --> 02:02:09,960
Speaker 2: renewable energy is unlikely to drive these animals to extinction. God,

2153
02:02:10,120 --> 02:02:10,920
Speaker 2: so that's where we are.

2154
02:02:12,000 --> 02:02:17,840
Speaker 1: Is the ESA, The Environmentals and Danger Danger Species Act

2155
02:02:18,000 --> 02:02:21,320
Speaker 1: is the Danger Species Act. That's got to be powerful

2156
02:02:21,440 --> 02:02:25,480
Speaker 1: enough inapplicable to federal.

2157
02:02:25,080 --> 02:02:28,840
Speaker 2: Waters, right definitely, as is the Marine Mammal Protection Act,

2158
02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:31,400
Speaker 2: which they go hand in hand. Got got so.

2159
02:02:34,400 --> 02:02:38,600
Speaker 1: If there was like a real demonstrable risk of extirpation

2160
02:02:38,840 --> 02:02:41,120
Speaker 1: or extinction, yeah, or.

2161
02:02:41,080 --> 02:02:43,120
Speaker 2: You would have you would have it would have got

2162
02:02:43,120 --> 02:02:45,240
Speaker 2: shut down, or even the loss of a single animal

2163
02:02:45,280 --> 02:02:47,800
Speaker 2: in the case of the North Atlantic right, Well, if

2164
02:02:47,800 --> 02:02:50,360
Speaker 2: it was suspected that any of these activities would result

2165
02:02:50,440 --> 02:02:52,080
Speaker 2: in the loss of even a single animal, it would

2166
02:02:52,120 --> 02:02:52,920
Speaker 2: have been shut down.

2167
02:02:54,520 --> 02:02:56,600
Speaker 8: And when it comes to it, like when it comes

2168
02:02:56,640 --> 02:02:58,720
Speaker 8: to the essay, I think you know, everyone's where like

2169
02:02:58,920 --> 02:03:01,720
Speaker 8: the US fish widlifts Servius sort of manages it and

2170
02:03:01,760 --> 02:03:05,840
Speaker 8: oversees it. But the other party is Noah Noah Fisheries, right,

2171
02:03:05,920 --> 02:03:08,600
Speaker 8: Like they're the ones who decide on all the ocean stuff.

2172
02:03:08,640 --> 02:03:13,720
Speaker 8: So they are like directly overseeing that. Probably more there's

2173
02:03:13,760 --> 02:03:16,680
Speaker 8: like equipped to make calls on that than maybe the

2174
02:03:16,760 --> 02:03:19,839
Speaker 8: US fishal Wildlife Services on terrestrial things even.

2175
02:03:19,840 --> 02:03:23,280
Speaker 2: Definitely the protected species division of no Offiicieries are the

2176
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:27,280
Speaker 2: ones who make those determinations. And again, these are dedicated people.

2177
02:03:27,560 --> 02:03:31,680
Speaker 2: They've dedicated their careers, their lives to understanding the biology

2178
02:03:31,680 --> 02:03:34,360
Speaker 2: of these animals to the extent of the science and

2179
02:03:34,400 --> 02:03:37,920
Speaker 2: that horizons are growing being pushed every day on the

2180
02:03:37,960 --> 02:03:40,040
Speaker 2: extent of marine mental science. And they're the ones making

2181
02:03:40,040 --> 02:03:41,520
Speaker 2: the calls. They're the right people to make the call.

2182
02:03:41,840 --> 02:03:43,640
Speaker 1: They could have a built in bias, you know what

2183
02:03:43,680 --> 02:03:47,240
Speaker 1: I'm saying, Like, hear me out, this is going to

2184
02:03:47,280 --> 02:03:49,320
Speaker 1: put you in a bad situation. No, no picture this.

2185
02:03:50,640 --> 02:03:57,840
Speaker 1: I wonder, this is like psychology st science. I wonder

2186
02:03:57,840 --> 02:04:00,680
Speaker 1: if you task those same individuals, Let's say you had

2187
02:04:00,680 --> 02:04:04,520
Speaker 1: an alternate universe, and you task those exact same individuals

2188
02:04:04,560 --> 02:04:10,200
Speaker 1: with determining whether an oil development was appropriate in this area.

2189
02:04:10,360 --> 02:04:12,960
Speaker 1: I wonder what answered those exact same individuals.

2190
02:04:12,600 --> 02:04:16,480
Speaker 2: That have given you. But there is there has been

2191
02:04:16,560 --> 02:04:20,600
Speaker 2: offshore oil development development, and that people who administer the

2192
02:04:20,600 --> 02:04:23,720
Speaker 2: Marine Mammal Protection Actor involved in all of that too.

2193
02:04:23,720 --> 02:04:27,720
Speaker 3: Shit, you, the alternate universe exists.

2194
02:04:28,760 --> 02:04:29,200
Speaker 4: I am.

2195
02:04:30,960 --> 02:04:36,160
Speaker 5: To weigh into this, like I shouldn't. I think there's

2196
02:04:36,600 --> 02:04:41,120
Speaker 5: so many people that want to point to this particular

2197
02:04:41,160 --> 02:04:42,680
Speaker 5: project and be like, that's what's.

2198
02:04:42,520 --> 02:04:44,400
Speaker 3: Killing the whales. Don't.

2199
02:04:44,840 --> 02:04:47,400
Speaker 5: Don't look at what's going on over here, that's what's

2200
02:04:47,440 --> 02:04:50,200
Speaker 5: killing the whales, which people are those There is some

2201
02:04:50,320 --> 02:04:55,240
Speaker 5: nasty shit going into the oceans at increasingly large amounts

2202
02:04:55,800 --> 02:05:00,360
Speaker 5: every single day. And when we're doing these nekruptcies on

2203
02:05:00,520 --> 02:05:04,800
Speaker 5: all sorts of marine wildlife, like you're pulling out pounds

2204
02:05:04,840 --> 02:05:09,280
Speaker 5: and pounds of shit, garbage, yeah, plastic, yeah, And and

2205
02:05:09,400 --> 02:05:11,320
Speaker 5: some of that is a societal shift.

2206
02:05:11,360 --> 02:05:13,680
Speaker 1: So mountain mountain dew is like, listen, it's not us.

2207
02:05:14,800 --> 02:05:18,520
Speaker 1: I shouldn't point out mountain dew. The plastic bottle companies.

2208
02:05:18,200 --> 02:05:21,040
Speaker 5: Plastic bottle companies, but I mean that's just like a

2209
02:05:21,080 --> 02:05:26,520
Speaker 5: small layer of things, right. But I think we've learned

2210
02:05:26,560 --> 02:05:30,440
Speaker 5: over and over again in the conservation world, like it

2211
02:05:30,520 --> 02:05:33,400
Speaker 5: is so rare to point to one thing and be like, oh,

2212
02:05:33,480 --> 02:05:34,920
Speaker 5: that one thing is the thing that did it.

2213
02:05:35,400 --> 02:05:39,960
Speaker 4: But it's also interesting that that, like for the longest time,

2214
02:05:40,040 --> 02:05:43,600
Speaker 4: like pointing the finger at fossil fuel, whether it's from

2215
02:05:43,600 --> 02:05:47,280
Speaker 4: the ESA or just pollution in general or whatever, like

2216
02:05:47,480 --> 02:05:50,480
Speaker 4: that was like just the way things were. But now

2217
02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:54,760
Speaker 4: you have this environmentally friendly energy source that's having to

2218
02:05:54,800 --> 02:05:58,800
Speaker 4: contend with the same right attractors that.

2219
02:05:58,880 --> 02:06:02,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, and every kids movie it's big oil

2220
02:06:02,720 --> 02:06:03,280
Speaker 1: is a bad guy.

2221
02:06:04,720 --> 02:06:06,160
Speaker 2: Is there gonna be a I don't know that.

2222
02:06:06,160 --> 02:06:06,840
Speaker 8: Give me an example.

2223
02:06:06,880 --> 02:06:07,720
Speaker 2: I don't I don't watch kids.

2224
02:06:07,760 --> 02:06:17,960
Speaker 9: Okay, there's there's the avatar basically just about a guy

2225
02:06:18,000 --> 02:06:20,040
Speaker 9: that's a big There's like a big guy that like

2226
02:06:20,080 --> 02:06:23,280
Speaker 9: he's a scientist and he gets turned into a bigfoot.

2227
02:06:24,160 --> 02:06:25,280
Speaker 8: What's the oils relationship?

2228
02:06:25,600 --> 02:06:27,800
Speaker 2: That one? He goes to Alaska to fight big oil.

2229
02:06:28,920 --> 02:06:32,480
Speaker 1: Big oil is a very common villain in kids movies.

2230
02:06:32,480 --> 02:06:34,600
Speaker 1: I'm wondering if there will be if there would be

2231
02:06:34,800 --> 02:06:39,960
Speaker 1: a future Pixar or whatever Disney movies in which Big

2232
02:06:40,000 --> 02:06:45,760
Speaker 1: Wind is where Big Wind is the villain, you know,

2233
02:06:45,800 --> 02:06:48,400
Speaker 1: because Big Oil has served as like you know, like

2234
02:06:48,520 --> 02:06:51,960
Speaker 1: Kurt Vonnegut, was it, Kurt Vonnagut. Yeah, Kurt Vonnegut said,

2235
02:06:51,960 --> 02:06:55,080
Speaker 1: when the Third Reich designed their uniforms, it's like they

2236
02:06:55,160 --> 02:06:57,360
Speaker 1: knew they would always be the bad guys in movies.

2237
02:07:00,080 --> 02:07:02,840
Speaker 1: And uh, and like big Oil has served as sort

2238
02:07:02,840 --> 02:07:05,560
Speaker 1: of the Big Oil has served as the global villain

2239
02:07:05,640 --> 02:07:11,200
Speaker 1: for for decades. It's interesting to see if the whale

2240
02:07:11,280 --> 02:07:14,720
Speaker 1: community is after Big Wind. It's just a real ship.

2241
02:07:14,640 --> 02:07:17,960
Speaker 4: Like Environmental is fighting environmentals and kind.

2242
02:07:17,720 --> 02:07:20,040
Speaker 2: Of I think you, I think you would find that

2243
02:07:20,360 --> 02:07:26,080
Speaker 2: the whale community may actually be at least somewhat the

2244
02:07:26,120 --> 02:07:27,240
Speaker 2: big oil community.

2245
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:32,520
Speaker 1: M Oh, there's people that might not like where this

2246
02:07:32,640 --> 02:07:33,040
Speaker 1: is going.

2247
02:07:34,160 --> 02:07:35,720
Speaker 4: They're whale decoys.

2248
02:07:35,920 --> 02:07:39,120
Speaker 5: Well look at oh yeah, the green green whale decoys.

2249
02:07:40,040 --> 02:07:41,160
Speaker 3: I mean conco.

2250
02:07:40,800 --> 02:07:42,880
Speaker 5: Phillips does a hell of a lot for the old

2251
02:07:43,160 --> 02:07:45,240
Speaker 5: prairie chicken and the sage grouse.

2252
02:07:45,320 --> 02:07:50,840
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, I think, well as they maybe. I think

2253
02:07:50,840 --> 02:07:54,000
Speaker 1: I heard something about that a different podcast being that

2254
02:07:54,640 --> 02:07:57,080
Speaker 1: in Dangerous Pieces are I mean, well, in dangers pieces

2255
02:07:57,080 --> 02:08:00,640
Speaker 1: are bad for business, yeah, right, like an industry. I

2256
02:08:00,680 --> 02:08:04,640
Speaker 1: mean if you're a long playing If you're a long

2257
02:08:04,760 --> 02:08:10,880
Speaker 1: playing player in an industry, generally and dangerous piece has

2258
02:08:10,880 --> 02:08:12,400
Speaker 1: become a headache. And so as much as you can

2259
02:08:12,480 --> 02:08:16,120
Speaker 1: head that off, yep, that's smart money, I think. But

2260
02:08:16,240 --> 02:08:18,320
Speaker 1: to head off something that's going to wind up shutting

2261
02:08:18,360 --> 02:08:19,040
Speaker 1: your industry down.

2262
02:08:19,320 --> 02:08:19,560
Speaker 2: Right.

2263
02:08:19,680 --> 02:08:23,240
Speaker 5: This particular discussion, right is like, are we going to

2264
02:08:23,320 --> 02:08:25,960
Speaker 5: be fifty years down the road and be like Jesus,

2265
02:08:26,080 --> 02:08:29,560
Speaker 5: I wish we would put all that smart time energy

2266
02:08:29,640 --> 02:08:36,040
Speaker 5: money into uh, nuclear energy at that point in time.

2267
02:08:36,120 --> 02:08:37,960
Speaker 2: That's the last thing I want. There's two last things

2268
02:08:37,960 --> 02:08:38,920
Speaker 2: I want to ask, right.

2269
02:08:39,000 --> 02:08:42,080
Speaker 5: It's like, should we have just gotten more efficient with this.

2270
02:08:45,880 --> 02:08:47,320
Speaker 6: Federal government past them?

2271
02:08:48,040 --> 02:08:56,920
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that, like eighty ninety plus, I think that.

2272
02:08:57,120 --> 02:09:01,280
Speaker 1: Uh, I think we're missing the boat. I think we

2273
02:09:01,280 --> 02:09:03,080
Speaker 1: should be doubling down on nuclear. But I want to

2274
02:09:03,080 --> 02:09:05,280
Speaker 1: ask you a question. Can you tell me through the

2275
02:09:05,360 --> 02:09:07,839
Speaker 1: Nature Conservancy what's your mandate?

2276
02:09:08,040 --> 02:09:09,000
Speaker 2: I know the Nature.

2277
02:09:08,760 --> 02:09:12,800
Speaker 1: Conservancy's work through. Remember I've been pounding on this idea

2278
02:09:12,800 --> 02:09:16,520
Speaker 1: of habitat protection. I know the Nature Conservancy as a

2279
02:09:16,720 --> 02:09:23,600
Speaker 1: major player and habitat protection and also a very even keeled.

2280
02:09:25,000 --> 02:09:25,520
Speaker 2: Other than me.

2281
02:09:26,840 --> 02:09:33,280
Speaker 1: No, it's organizationally, Yeah, yeah, really good about access. Don't

2282
02:09:33,280 --> 02:09:34,760
Speaker 1: go out of your way to mess with hunters and

2283
02:09:34,800 --> 02:09:38,000
Speaker 1: fishermen and like, really focused on habitat.

2284
02:09:38,200 --> 02:09:42,240
Speaker 2: That is us. So our mission is to protect the

2285
02:09:42,320 --> 02:09:46,520
Speaker 2: lands and waters upon which all life depends. Okay, lands

2286
02:09:46,560 --> 02:09:51,640
Speaker 2: and waters. We are primarily a land protection organization. Got

2287
02:09:51,680 --> 02:09:56,880
Speaker 2: four thousand staff of four thousand dedicated individuals globally, about

2288
02:09:56,920 --> 02:10:02,400
Speaker 2: four hundred scientists, including myself. We work on virtually every

2289
02:10:02,440 --> 02:10:07,000
Speaker 2: ecosystem on the planet, and we work in the ocean.

2290
02:10:08,520 --> 02:10:11,720
Speaker 2: We have one hundred and twenty five protected one hundred

2291
02:10:11,720 --> 02:10:14,520
Speaker 2: and twenty five million acres. We currently protect one hundred

2292
02:10:14,520 --> 02:10:17,720
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five million acres of land worldwide. In this country,

2293
02:10:17,800 --> 02:10:21,160
Speaker 2: we own two million acres. We have conservation easements on

2294
02:10:21,200 --> 02:10:27,120
Speaker 2: another four million acres. We've transferred ownership of fifteen million acres.

2295
02:10:27,200 --> 02:10:29,040
Speaker 1: That's the number I wanted to focus on because what

2296
02:10:29,080 --> 02:10:31,280
Speaker 1: that explained, What that just tell people what that.

2297
02:10:31,160 --> 02:10:35,280
Speaker 2: Means, transferred ownership of fifteen million acres to agencies, federal

2298
02:10:35,280 --> 02:10:38,640
Speaker 2: and state agencies, meaning you're making public land.

2299
02:10:38,640 --> 02:10:40,240
Speaker 1: You guys manufacture public land.

2300
02:10:40,520 --> 02:10:43,920
Speaker 2: We are making public land. And if Mike, oh.

2301
02:10:43,760 --> 02:10:48,600
Speaker 1: Well, I've always i've always, I've always loved you guys mission,

2302
02:10:48,800 --> 02:10:50,560
Speaker 1: I should have gotten that up up top.

2303
02:10:53,400 --> 02:10:55,920
Speaker 10: Anyway that after you beat them up a little bit, Well,

2304
02:10:55,960 --> 02:10:57,720
Speaker 10: I want to I want to point out that you

2305
02:10:57,760 --> 02:11:00,880
Speaker 10: guys had on this podcast, asked a colleague of mine

2306
02:11:00,960 --> 02:11:03,520
Speaker 10: named Nelis Johnson who lives here in Bozeman, had dinner

2307
02:11:03,560 --> 02:11:05,320
Speaker 10: with him last night.

2308
02:11:05,520 --> 02:11:08,880
Speaker 2: On episode two sixty one, there's no such thing as

2309
02:11:08,880 --> 02:11:12,200
Speaker 2: a free lunch YEP with Renewable Energy talked. It covered

2310
02:11:12,200 --> 02:11:14,400
Speaker 2: a lot of ground on that episode, including a deeper

2311
02:11:14,440 --> 02:11:17,200
Speaker 2: dive into what the nature concernacy is and what we

2312
02:11:17,280 --> 02:11:19,840
Speaker 2: do so go ahead and dial wow.

2313
02:11:19,960 --> 02:11:21,840
Speaker 8: Yeah, usually we got to like work that in.

2314
02:11:21,960 --> 02:11:22,920
Speaker 2: But your guest.

2315
02:11:22,800 --> 02:11:25,240
Speaker 1: Comes now, I wish I would have started out with that,

2316
02:11:25,240 --> 02:11:28,920
Speaker 1: that's okay, And before we get into why, I want

2317
02:11:28,920 --> 02:11:31,520
Speaker 1: to just hear a sort of not necessarily your take,

2318
02:11:31,600 --> 02:11:34,960
Speaker 1: but sort of someone who's who's focused on energy, like

2319
02:11:35,880 --> 02:11:39,200
Speaker 1: why not nuclear? But first, uh, walk me through the

2320
02:11:39,240 --> 02:11:43,280
Speaker 1: steps of I guess we should have done this up top.

2321
02:11:43,400 --> 02:11:47,680
Speaker 1: How How did your mandate get directed? How does your

2322
02:11:47,680 --> 02:11:50,600
Speaker 1: mandate get directed into sort of like watching this project

2323
02:11:50,640 --> 02:11:53,120
Speaker 1: and making sure this project's done effectively?

2324
02:11:53,560 --> 02:11:54,680
Speaker 2: Which project.

2325
02:11:55,920 --> 02:11:58,280
Speaker 1: Your involvement in offshore wind?

2326
02:11:58,720 --> 02:12:03,600
Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, so let me head off the nuclear thing.

2327
02:12:03,600 --> 02:12:05,520
Speaker 2: I'm not equipped to address that. So you can bring

2328
02:12:05,560 --> 02:12:06,960
Speaker 2: Nell's back on if you want to talk about the

2329
02:12:07,040 --> 02:12:12,800
Speaker 2: nuclear thing. He's a much better guy. So the Nature

2330
02:12:12,800 --> 02:12:17,000
Speaker 2: Conservancy is heavily involved in the buildout of renewables in

2331
02:12:17,000 --> 02:12:20,760
Speaker 2: the United States and elsewhere. We recognize that offshore wind

2332
02:12:21,120 --> 02:12:22,920
Speaker 2: is an area where we can make a lot of

2333
02:12:22,960 --> 02:12:25,840
Speaker 2: gains in terms of the amount of electrons that are

2334
02:12:25,840 --> 02:12:29,120
Speaker 2: flowing into people's homes. We also recognize that just like

2335
02:12:29,160 --> 02:12:35,800
Speaker 2: any energy source, building out offshore wind may does have

2336
02:12:35,920 --> 02:12:38,480
Speaker 2: ecological impacts, and that we want to be involved. We

2337
02:12:38,560 --> 02:12:41,400
Speaker 2: want to be at the table to help minimize those

2338
02:12:41,400 --> 02:12:45,760
Speaker 2: impacts on nature to result in the best outcome for

2339
02:12:45,920 --> 02:12:49,560
Speaker 2: nature and people. And so I've worked for the Nature

2340
02:12:49,560 --> 02:12:54,000
Speaker 2: Conservancy for two years, a little over two years. I

2341
02:12:54,080 --> 02:12:56,360
Speaker 2: was involved in offshore wind from the day I started.

2342
02:12:57,840 --> 02:13:00,760
Speaker 2: I'm a fish guy, though as a grad school to

2343
02:13:00,800 --> 02:13:04,240
Speaker 2: study fish. So that's the angle from which I approach

2344
02:13:05,520 --> 02:13:08,400
Speaker 2: renewable energies in offshore wind in general. And I've mentioned

2345
02:13:08,440 --> 02:13:11,440
Speaker 2: a couple of times this project I was working on

2346
02:13:11,560 --> 02:13:15,000
Speaker 2: last Sunday under the wind Turbines off Virginia tagging project.

2347
02:13:15,880 --> 02:13:19,480
Speaker 2: This is a project that's funded by the federal government,

2348
02:13:19,480 --> 02:13:22,160
Speaker 2: funded by no officieries, aka funded by the taxpayer. So

2349
02:13:22,240 --> 02:13:26,040
Speaker 2: thanks everybody. And we have a couple goals of the project,

2350
02:13:26,360 --> 02:13:30,520
Speaker 2: but essentially we're looking to understand to better understand the

2351
02:13:30,720 --> 02:13:36,600
Speaker 2: impacts of offshore wind construction activity on some species of

2352
02:13:36,680 --> 02:13:40,560
Speaker 2: economically important fish. And I'm happy to get more into

2353
02:13:40,600 --> 02:13:43,520
Speaker 2: that if we have time. But that's that's my involvement

2354
02:13:43,760 --> 02:13:47,360
Speaker 2: in offshore wind. I sit on a variety of advisory

2355
02:13:47,400 --> 02:13:52,680
Speaker 2: panels research advisor for a couple of organizations that are

2356
02:13:53,040 --> 02:13:57,800
Speaker 2: consortiums of folks thinking about offshore wind working on offshore winds.

2357
02:13:57,840 --> 02:14:02,400
Speaker 2: Some of them involve stakeholders, some of them involved developers, fishermen,

2358
02:14:03,560 --> 02:14:06,720
Speaker 2: city council members from some coastal jurisdiction where they're going

2359
02:14:06,720 --> 02:14:09,320
Speaker 2: to bring powers or things like that. There's a lot

2360
02:14:09,360 --> 02:14:11,360
Speaker 2: of What I like to say is we take a

2361
02:14:11,400 --> 02:14:15,680
Speaker 2: field to table approach. At the Nature Conservancy. We're in

2362
02:14:15,720 --> 02:14:18,480
Speaker 2: the field, we're doing the science, but we're also at

2363
02:14:18,480 --> 02:14:20,760
Speaker 2: the table. We're at the policy making table. We're weighing

2364
02:14:20,800 --> 02:14:24,360
Speaker 2: in on things like the environmental impact statements. We're working

2365
02:14:24,360 --> 02:14:28,560
Speaker 2: behind the scenes to identify research needs, research priorities. Sometimes

2366
02:14:28,600 --> 02:14:32,040
Speaker 2: we're out there collecting data in pursuit of those research

2367
02:14:32,080 --> 02:14:38,200
Speaker 2: needs and priorities. Well, it's got something.

2368
02:14:38,800 --> 02:14:44,400
Speaker 7: I have a thing to add. The other week, the

2369
02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:51,440
Speaker 7: House in the Senate released final twenty twenty four fiscal

2370
02:14:51,480 --> 02:14:58,240
Speaker 7: spending bills, and appropriators allocated this from an article. Appropriators

2371
02:14:58,280 --> 02:15:03,280
Speaker 7: allocated Z point twenty five billion to the Department of Energy,

2372
02:15:03,960 --> 02:15:08,000
Speaker 7: about one point eight billion above the fiscal twenty twenty

2373
02:15:08,000 --> 02:15:12,840
Speaker 7: three enacted level. And there is a ton more going

2374
02:15:12,960 --> 02:15:18,640
Speaker 7: to nuclear research and developments. So it looks like it

2375
02:15:18,680 --> 02:15:22,680
Speaker 7: includes one point sixty nine billion for nuclear energy research

2376
02:15:22,680 --> 02:15:25,320
Speaker 7: and development, which is about two hundred and twelve million

2377
02:15:25,400 --> 02:15:26,760
Speaker 7: more than where it is now.

2378
02:15:29,440 --> 02:15:32,400
Speaker 2: That'll be the next show. Why not nuclear?

2379
02:15:33,320 --> 02:15:34,400
Speaker 3: Why not nukes?

2380
02:15:34,520 --> 02:15:35,080
Speaker 2: I'd listen.

2381
02:15:36,920 --> 02:15:40,960
Speaker 5: I want to point out the biggest mistake I made

2382
02:15:40,960 --> 02:15:45,040
Speaker 5: the show is the easy layup of instead of run

2383
02:15:45,080 --> 02:15:47,000
Speaker 5: to DMC, it's run to TNC.

2384
02:15:47,480 --> 02:15:49,520
Speaker 2: Oh I heard that one.

2385
02:15:49,600 --> 02:15:51,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, such a bummer when you said that.

2386
02:15:52,640 --> 02:15:54,720
Speaker 1: For some reason, my kids have gotten willing to clean

2387
02:15:54,760 --> 02:15:57,200
Speaker 1: in their shoes, which is driving me insane.

2388
02:15:57,400 --> 02:16:01,760
Speaker 2: Cleaning their shoes the like, washing their crocks with a

2389
02:16:01,800 --> 02:16:02,480
Speaker 2: scrub brush.

2390
02:16:02,720 --> 02:16:03,440
Speaker 4: It's a stranger.

2391
02:16:03,640 --> 02:16:05,080
Speaker 2: I don't even know about this.

2392
02:16:05,760 --> 02:16:07,120
Speaker 1: And I made a joke beause like you guys think

2393
02:16:07,160 --> 02:16:10,080
Speaker 1: you're like run DMC because never had.

2394
02:16:10,000 --> 02:16:12,000
Speaker 2: Their whole thing. It was like those super white shoes.

2395
02:16:13,240 --> 02:16:16,080
Speaker 4: Was like, oh my god, they have no idea what

2396
02:16:16,120 --> 02:16:16,880
Speaker 4: you're talking about.

2397
02:16:16,880 --> 02:16:19,480
Speaker 1: Of course, where would a nine year old get the

2398
02:16:19,480 --> 02:16:21,120
Speaker 1: idea that he needs to clean his crocs off?

2399
02:16:21,120 --> 02:16:21,360
Speaker 3: Does that?

2400
02:16:21,400 --> 02:16:22,360
Speaker 2: It blows my mind?

2401
02:16:25,040 --> 02:16:26,800
Speaker 6: I don't know either. Did they do that to their sneak?

2402
02:16:27,120 --> 02:16:29,520
Speaker 3: I don't I don't understand. When they come in from

2403
02:16:29,560 --> 02:16:31,280
Speaker 3: the field, aren't you like clean your ship?

2404
02:16:31,640 --> 02:16:31,800
Speaker 2: No?

2405
02:16:31,800 --> 02:16:34,840
Speaker 1: No, no, they're like cleaning them cleaning, like not cleaning

2406
02:16:34,840 --> 02:16:35,840
Speaker 1: them off like mud.

2407
02:16:36,000 --> 02:16:40,240
Speaker 3: Like they want to go to school with fresh.

2408
02:16:40,000 --> 02:16:44,920
Speaker 2: No, not fresh fresh crops. It's insane.

2409
02:16:46,080 --> 02:16:48,480
Speaker 1: Steve also declared that your crocks look new.

2410
02:16:50,040 --> 02:16:52,240
Speaker 8: Steve also declared this morning in the parking lot that

2411
02:16:52,280 --> 02:16:56,360
Speaker 8: he doesn't like states who have too many license plates

2412
02:16:57,080 --> 02:17:01,440
Speaker 8: off up and Tannis specifically said, he said, you can

2413
02:17:01,480 --> 02:17:03,960
Speaker 8: learn a lot about a state, but kind of a

2414
02:17:03,959 --> 02:17:04,720
Speaker 8: license plate.

2415
02:17:04,680 --> 02:17:05,800
Speaker 2: How lin plates? Yeah?

2416
02:17:05,840 --> 02:17:08,760
Speaker 1: I said, there's an inverse correlation my native state, the

2417
02:17:08,800 --> 02:17:11,640
Speaker 1: greatness of a state and how many license plates it offers.

2418
02:17:11,800 --> 02:17:14,560
Speaker 2: My native state, Maryland leads the nation and the number

2419
02:17:14,560 --> 02:17:18,160
Speaker 2: of license plate they are got something like eighty, something

2420
02:17:18,160 --> 02:17:20,800
Speaker 2: like eighty license plate. I don't support that.

2421
02:17:21,160 --> 02:17:22,400
Speaker 8: My last thing I have is we got to get

2422
02:17:22,400 --> 02:17:24,240
Speaker 8: to trivia. Everyone's running the one you can.

2423
02:17:24,120 --> 02:17:24,760
Speaker 1: Stay for trivia?

2424
02:17:24,920 --> 02:17:26,560
Speaker 2: He is, yeah, what are you to throw him a

2425
02:17:26,600 --> 02:17:27,080
Speaker 2: bone about?

2426
02:17:31,600 --> 02:17:33,720
Speaker 8: The first guests who's ever asked like, hey, are we

2427
02:17:33,720 --> 02:17:36,440
Speaker 8: gonna play trivia? So yeah, you know, I think he'll

2428
02:17:36,480 --> 02:17:36,840
Speaker 8: do well.

2429
02:17:37,800 --> 02:17:39,480
Speaker 2: I appreciate you coming on. We were we were all

2430
02:17:39,520 --> 02:17:40,600
Speaker 2: over the place. It's great.

2431
02:17:40,600 --> 02:17:44,240
Speaker 1: We're talking about tech. We were talking about uh, theory, philosophy.

2432
02:17:45,720 --> 02:17:49,440
Speaker 4: We didn't get to Barrow trauma, which we're talking about.

2433
02:17:49,680 --> 02:17:52,040
Speaker 6: Maybe you can hit that for like two minutes in trivia.

2434
02:17:52,480 --> 02:17:55,119
Speaker 2: Got two minutes, we'll hit it in trivah in trivia?

2435
02:17:55,160 --> 02:17:58,480
Speaker 1: Sure, Oh yeah, can you intro with Barrow Trauma.

2436
02:17:59,000 --> 02:18:00,440
Speaker 8: We'll see what the schedule looks like.

2437
02:18:01,520 --> 02:18:03,600
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming on. It was probably frustrating for you.

2438
02:18:03,640 --> 02:18:05,880
Speaker 2: No, it's great, happy to be here. It felt like

2439
02:18:05,879 --> 02:18:07,360
Speaker 2: a PhD defense all over again.

2440
02:18:10,240 --> 02:18:16,519
Speaker 1: But I get it, man. I mean it's like, yeah, uh,

2441
02:18:16,640 --> 02:18:21,680
Speaker 1: in developing alternative energy, it's like everything is again, everything's

2442
02:18:21,720 --> 02:18:23,120
Speaker 1: going to be a little bit painful. It's just like

2443
02:18:23,120 --> 02:18:24,880
Speaker 1: where you can get the least amount of pain in

2444
02:18:24,920 --> 02:18:25,879
Speaker 1: the biggest amount of gain.

2445
02:18:26,000 --> 02:18:28,000
Speaker 3: Well, so you would love it, Steve, right, if we

2446
02:18:28,080 --> 02:18:31,000
Speaker 3: if you could just do a clean trade, uh, and

2447
02:18:31,200 --> 02:18:35,720
Speaker 3: just what we're already developing for fossil fuels, if we

2448
02:18:35,760 --> 02:18:38,480
Speaker 3: could just trade it out and do the win.

2449
02:18:38,720 --> 02:18:40,960
Speaker 1: Be like and it'll be even more energy and great,

2450
02:18:41,000 --> 02:18:42,000
Speaker 1: let's stop talking about it.

2451
02:18:42,040 --> 02:18:44,120
Speaker 2: And I just want I just want to remind the

2452
02:18:44,160 --> 02:18:46,280
Speaker 2: public that it's important to be involved. And there's a

2453
02:18:46,280 --> 02:18:48,960
Speaker 2: public comment period open right now, and you might bring

2454
02:18:49,000 --> 02:18:51,119
Speaker 2: something to the table that hasn't been said before. Because

2455
02:18:52,240 --> 02:18:54,320
Speaker 2: one of my favorite quotes, Mark Twain quote I think

2456
02:18:54,400 --> 02:18:56,840
Speaker 2: is a fresh set of eyes finds more beings, finds

2457
02:18:56,840 --> 02:18:59,720
Speaker 2: more beans. Yeah, you need more eyes on this situation,

2458
02:19:00,080 --> 02:19:02,400
Speaker 2: more fish, and sell the damn T shirts out.

2459
02:19:02,920 --> 02:19:05,879
Speaker 6: Well, you're supposed to be wearing it if.

2460
02:19:05,760 --> 02:19:07,199
Speaker 2: You want a sweet T shirt.

2461
02:19:07,200 --> 02:19:14,879
Speaker 11: Okay, shirt like this is all very complicated? Is this

2462
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:18,640
Speaker 11: still like warranted? Just walk around going hey, make sure

2463
02:19:18,640 --> 02:19:22,519
Speaker 11: you turn your lights off. Definitely all complicit.

2464
02:19:22,760 --> 02:19:26,440
Speaker 4: Due half my day at home is spent walking around

2465
02:19:26,440 --> 02:19:28,400
Speaker 4: turning lights off and.

2466
02:19:28,360 --> 02:19:30,320
Speaker 1: Shut them all off, and five minutes later I come

2467
02:19:30,360 --> 02:19:31,400
Speaker 1: out there all back on again.

2468
02:19:31,520 --> 02:19:34,080
Speaker 2: Turn your lights off and don't get balloons for your

2469
02:19:34,080 --> 02:19:36,760
Speaker 2: next birthday party. I saw I say balloons every time

2470
02:19:36,800 --> 02:19:37,879
Speaker 2: I go off short every.

2471
02:19:37,720 --> 02:19:39,080
Speaker 6: Year can Texas.

2472
02:19:40,440 --> 02:19:42,080
Speaker 1: You can go to the top of the highest mountain

2473
02:19:42,120 --> 02:19:44,160
Speaker 1: on Earth. There's probably a birthday balloon sitting there.

2474
02:19:44,240 --> 02:19:47,000
Speaker 5: There's a lot of complaining balloon, a lot of complaining

2475
02:19:47,000 --> 02:19:48,240
Speaker 5: about federal overreach.

2476
02:19:48,640 --> 02:19:50,800
Speaker 3: But I mean, I think there's a room for more.

2477
02:19:53,600 --> 02:19:57,520
Speaker 1: A band of broad scale balloon band a sea turtle bait.

2478
02:19:57,400 --> 02:19:59,320
Speaker 8: Right there, except for you know who you're going to

2479
02:19:59,360 --> 02:20:04,600
Speaker 8: piss off, big buck white tail. A lot of them

2480
02:20:04,600 --> 02:20:06,640
Speaker 8: will say that if you find a balloon in the

2481
02:20:06,640 --> 02:20:09,000
Speaker 8: woods that tells you what the wind drafts are doing,

2482
02:20:09,000 --> 02:20:10,640
Speaker 8: then that's where a big buck would like to bet.

2483
02:20:10,680 --> 02:20:17,959
Speaker 3: Guys, thinks to phil Off.

2484
02:20:20,200 --> 02:20:24,720
Speaker 12: Got a botber in the water, toastuck in the mud.

2485
02:20:25,600 --> 02:20:31,640
Speaker 3: It's a perfectly for sitting soaking up the sign. Dad

2486
02:20:31,720 --> 02:20:33,200
Speaker 3: came up and asked me.

2487
02:20:33,920 --> 02:20:38,720
Speaker 12: Baby's wishful thinking, Yes, son, are you getting manny?

2488
02:20:38,920 --> 02:20:43,280
Speaker 3: I said, no, I'm just fishing boat. Just lost the

2489
02:20:43,400 --> 02:20:45,119
Speaker 3: anchor and the breeze.

2490
02:20:45,200 --> 02:20:47,320
Speaker 4: It's blowing slow, so.

2491
02:20:47,520 --> 02:20:50,320
Speaker 12: I'm just out here sending snagging.

2492
02:20:49,920 --> 02:20:54,120
Speaker 3: Some trees and getting the stone jogged around and a

2493
02:20:54,240 --> 02:20:54,720
Speaker 3: can of.

2494
02:20:54,720 --> 02:20:56,520
Speaker 12: Worms in the sun drinking down.

2495
02:20:56,720 --> 02:21:01,160
Speaker 4: Sure, got a few hours to my I said, that's

2496
02:21:01,240 --> 02:21:02,200
Speaker 4: what fishing for.

2497
02:21:26,640 --> 02:21:30,240
Speaker 12: Turning around and a candle, words and sign creeping down

2498
02:21:30,320 --> 02:21:34,160
Speaker 12: the shore. Got a few hours to myself.

2499
02:21:34,600 --> 02:21:35,920
Speaker 4: That's what fishing for.

2500
02:21:38,360 --> 02:21:42,640
Speaker 12: Well, maybe you're on the water casting from.

2501
02:21:42,440 --> 02:21:45,519
Speaker 4: The shore, time just seems.

2502
02:21:45,160 --> 02:21:50,720
Speaker 12: To fly by. Maybe you want it, always seems your

2503
02:21:50,800 --> 02:21:55,279
Speaker 12: last cast is really the first of many, whether catching

2504
02:21:55,280 --> 02:22:00,480
Speaker 12: the fish, catching the buzz beat's not catching eddie. Some

2505
02:22:00,600 --> 02:22:04,760
Speaker 12: folks they don't understand and know just what they're missing

2506
02:22:05,240 --> 02:22:10,120
Speaker 12: because you don't. There's the the be out here fishing

2507
02:22:11,120 --> 02:22:13,920
Speaker 12: turn around and a can of worms in the sun,

2508
02:22:14,080 --> 02:22:18,680
Speaker 12: creaking down the short got a few lives to my settling.

2509
02:22:19,080 --> 02:22:20,400
Speaker 3: That's what fishing for.

2510
02:22:21,720 --> 02:22:24,240
Speaker 8: I got a few lives to my symblings.

2511
02:22:24,480 --> 02:22:25,840
Speaker 12: That's what fishing is for.