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Speaker 1: Welcome back, fellow conspiracy realist. You, if you, like us,

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Speaker 1: have been having a wild time with the news recently.

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Speaker 1: You're probably starting to wonder how all these conspiracies or

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Speaker 1: allegations thereof converge, and you're probably starting to wonder which

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Speaker 1: media sources can be trustworthy. We wondered about this too,

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Speaker 1: and back in twenty twenty, we had a conversation with

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Speaker 1: our longtime friend of the show, the legendary Jake Hanrahan

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Speaker 1: about conflict journalism and QAnon.

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Speaker 2: Boy, oh boy. Jake is a learned fellow and just

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Speaker 2: a good hang and this is every time we hang

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Speaker 2: out with him. It's always quite a wide range of

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Speaker 2: topics that get covered, even in between QAnon and conflict journalism.

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Speaker 2: So I think you're going to really dig this one.

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Speaker 3: Let's jump into it.

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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained You can turn back now or learn

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Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. A production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 4: My name is Matt, my name's no.

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Speaker 1: They called me Ben. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul Mission Control decands. Most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want

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Speaker 1: you to know. This episode has been a long time

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Speaker 1: in the making, folks. It's it's been a long road

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Speaker 1: to get here. I think all of us, Matt Nolan,

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Speaker 1: Mission Control myself have been a big fan of Jake

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Speaker 1: Hanrahan's work in conflict journalism, where he often risked life

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Speaker 1: and limb to shed light on stories and conflicts that

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Speaker 1: are rarely reported at all in the Western world, much

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Speaker 1: less objectively. That's been the case for a long time. Additionally,

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Speaker 1: Jake is a filmmaker. You've seen him on Vice, You've

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Speaker 1: seen him on HBO, Pro PUBLICA, Bellingcat, BBC News. The

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Speaker 1: list goes on. One personal favorite is Popular Front, grassroots

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Speaker 1: investigative organization Jake founded back in twenty eighteen. And if

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Speaker 1: you were if you read the headline of this episode

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Speaker 1: and you're trying to figure out what the hell is

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Speaker 1: going on with QAnon, well Jake is your man. We

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Speaker 1: have no hyperbole. A thousand questions for you, Jake. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we're going to get to them all. But

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Speaker 1: first things first, thank you so much for coming on

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Speaker 1: the show today.

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Speaker 5: No, mate, Like I said earlier, this has been my

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Speaker 5: favorite podcast since it was about twenty two.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, man, I'm really happy to be Hones. Thank

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Speaker 4: you so much, guy. Well, the feeling is mutual, Sir.

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Speaker 2: QAnon pod is mind blowingly excellent as such a tangled

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Speaker 2: web to unravel, and you do a fine job. And

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Speaker 2: that's only three episodes in and I just can't wait

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Speaker 2: for what's to come.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know what is to come yet.

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Speaker 4: Take a lot of times alrite it, but yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with a question about location. So, your career

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Speaker 1: as a war reporter has taken you across the world

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Speaker 1: to a lot of places that wouldn't be considered you know,

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Speaker 1: top ten tourist destinations to say the least, you've been.

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Speaker 1: You've worked in Syria and Palestine, from Peru to Rock

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Speaker 1: to Ukraine, as well as Turkey, which we must explore

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Speaker 1: in depth in today's show. The first question I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are going to have listening today

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Speaker 1: is what inspired you to take this career path and

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Speaker 1: what was your first actual conflict reporting experience?

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Speaker 4: Like it's a good question.

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Speaker 5: I mean I'm not good at that many things and

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Speaker 5: I didn't do well at school, Like school was definitely

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Speaker 5: not a thing I was good at, and I just like,

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Speaker 5: you know, left when I was like sixteen, didn't do

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Speaker 5: college or anything. But the only thing I was always

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Speaker 5: like keenan was reading, right, So I was always reading.

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Speaker 5: I remember my granddad was just saying to me, like, look,

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Speaker 5: if you just read, you can teach yourself so much,

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Speaker 5: which is true, right. So I just always been a good,

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Speaker 5: like big reader. And then I just thought, right, you know,

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Speaker 5: I can write. So I started off as kind of like,

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Speaker 5: you know, experimenting with print journalism and you know, I'll

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Speaker 5: do these articles and that, and I just thought, yeah,

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Speaker 5: why not, Like I can try this. But at the

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Speaker 5: time I was a bit like, oh, you know, someone

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Speaker 5: like me can't do this, you know, kind of I

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Speaker 5: didn't really have a good perception of what journalism was

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Speaker 5: other than like the guy on the news with the tie, right.

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Speaker 5: But then as I read more and like read these

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Speaker 5: books specifically by journalists that will you know, embedded with

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Speaker 5: militant groups and whatever, I was like, yeah, like I

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Speaker 5: want to do that. I've always been drawn to kind

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Speaker 5: of like the dark things, if you know what I mean,

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Speaker 5: whether that's like crime or conflict or whatever. So for me,

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Speaker 5: I just I remember like reading articles and reading books

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Speaker 5: by like other journalists and just like blew my hair back,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean. I was like this is amazing,

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Speaker 5: Like this is real and these guys actually went there.

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Speaker 5: So like long story, sure, I was just you know,

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Speaker 5: pushing away. And I guess when I started at Vice,

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Speaker 5: I was kind of already reporting on conflict stuff and

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Speaker 5: eventually I ended up in Man what like I was

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Speaker 5: like twenty four. I think the first front line I

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Speaker 5: went to was Iraq when like Isis were still in Mosul,

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Speaker 5: So that was cool, and honestly, like it wasn't it

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Speaker 5: was like pretty chill, like you know, there wasn't much

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Speaker 5: going on at the time. It wasn't what you think,

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Speaker 5: Like I just like hanging out with the like like

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Speaker 5: soldiers and that. But then like I think the big

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Speaker 5: like first big one was like Southeast Turkey, you know,

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Speaker 5: like we mentioned a little bit like that was like

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Speaker 5: an urban combat you know, situation where the front line

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Speaker 5: is the street, you know, where the corner shop and

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Speaker 5: where people live. So I guess like I just I

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Speaker 5: just got a real hunger for it, and I felt

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Speaker 5: like I understood it on some level, you know, Like

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Speaker 5: I feel like I'm that's good at you know, talking

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Speaker 5: to people, you know. I mean, I don't know what

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Speaker 5: round is, I don't know what gun this is, I

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Speaker 5: don't know what munitions that is.

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Speaker 4: That that to me is not that interesting for me.

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Speaker 5: It's like, how did these people end up just being

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Speaker 5: normal people and then something happens in their lives and

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Speaker 5: they kind of have to take up arms?

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Speaker 4: You know. That to me has always been really interesting.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, man, I just think for me, the fun

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Speaker 5: parts of the war, I don't want to say fun

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Speaker 5: is if like, oh, yeah, it's a game, you know

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Speaker 5: what I mean? The bits that I enjoy with my

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Speaker 5: job is kind of just meeting people you would never

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Speaker 5: normally meet and seeing them kind of in these situations

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Speaker 5: and trying to tell their story, you know, like why

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Speaker 5: are they there? How did this happen? And when they

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Speaker 5: trust you and say yeah, like you know this, this

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Speaker 5: and this. I think that's cool man, it's good fun.

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Speaker 2: I think it's interesting too, like how quickly our brains

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Speaker 2: kind of normalize things that are completely insane, and when

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Speaker 2: you're in a situation like that where it's literally on

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Speaker 2: your street, in your neighborhood, and yeah, it's terrifying, but

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Speaker 2: people live, and like that's to me an interesting part

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Speaker 2: of what it must be like for you to just

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Speaker 2: be around people as they're living, as they're living through

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Speaker 2: these things, but also not like living in abject terror

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Speaker 2: twenty four to seven. I could imagine maybe overthinking it,

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Speaker 2: but no.

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Speaker 5: You're right, it's like that is for me as well,

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Speaker 5: Like one of the most fascinating things, Like I remember

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Speaker 5: kind of a scene in southeast Turkey with the Kurdish

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Speaker 5: like youth militants and they're all teenagers and we kind

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Speaker 5: of stopped after there was like a bit of a firefight,

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Speaker 5: like Turkish military or firing into the village from up

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Speaker 5: on some mountains, and then after it kind of died down,

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Speaker 5: we just sat there like on a you know, on

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Speaker 5: the ground, and these kids were like eating, like pouring

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Speaker 5: out coke like you know, like drinks, like do you

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Speaker 5: want this? And then the one kid was just playing

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Speaker 5: on his phone with an ak slung over his shoulder,

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Speaker 5: and I remember just thinking like wow, like this is

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Speaker 5: just surreal, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: So that to me has always been.

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Speaker 5: Fascinating to kind of you know, people get a really

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Speaker 5: dumb idea they think people live constantly in war, and

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Speaker 5: it's like, nah, man, they're just like you and me.

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Speaker 5: They just want to live. And unfortunately, you know, it's

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Speaker 5: on their doorstep a lot at the time.

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Speaker 3: Even though all these places where there's been real danger

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Speaker 3: to the people living there every day, you know of

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Speaker 3: their lives. They like you say, they get into this

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Speaker 3: what is hopefully a temporary situation where something must be

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Speaker 3: dealt with, and there is conflict that is violent, so

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Speaker 3: there's a real danger to those human beings that are there.

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Speaker 3: To put yourself in that situation, whether for a job

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Speaker 3: or by your own volition, to put yourself there and

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Speaker 3: to go and talk to somebody that may be in

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Speaker 3: opposition to a government or an opposition to some other

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Speaker 3: armed force, that feels like a very scary thing and

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Speaker 3: a very dangerous thing to do. But also, as you know,

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Speaker 3: if you've listened to this show, you you know that

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Speaker 3: we think that's a very important thing to do. And

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Speaker 3: I wonder, well, well, I know the answer to this question.

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Speaker 3: I don't mean to pose it as though I don't,

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Speaker 3: but what is the what is the most harrowing situation

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Speaker 3: you have found yourself in because of your job and

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Speaker 3: what you.

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Speaker 5: Do probably like my grandma going mad at me when

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Speaker 5: she found out I was in Syria, Like then was real, yeah,

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Speaker 5: well I just got back and was like, no, I

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Speaker 5: wasn't in iraqas in Syria like so but no, They're like, yeah,

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Speaker 5: going to jail in Turkey Man definitely was like the

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Speaker 5: biggest issue.

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Speaker 4: Like that was just like oh dear, like oh dear,

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Speaker 4: oh dear.

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Speaker 5: I was just thinking, like I knew I was my

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Speaker 5: luck would run out, you know, like I knew it

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Speaker 5: was going to run out, and then it really did,

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Speaker 5: and I was like, oh Christ. But at the same time,

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Speaker 5: it taught me some like really valuable lessons about freedom

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Speaker 5: and also taught me how the people, like the I

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Speaker 5: guess the ultimate like threat to these people that I

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Speaker 5: was filming with, right, you know, Like I remember after

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Speaker 5: I got out, I speak to some you know, Kurdish

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Speaker 5: people and they were like, now you know how we feel,

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Speaker 5: you know, and I was like yeah, yeah, actually, And

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Speaker 5: so in a way it was good experience just in

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Speaker 5: terms of like life experience, and it kind of shaped

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Speaker 5: my worldview a little bit more. But certainly at the

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Speaker 5: time I didn't think that at all. I was like,

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Speaker 5: what have you done? You know, so it wasn't good.

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Speaker 1: No, So this is for folks who are unaware. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about a situation that occurred in twenty fifteen when Jake,

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Speaker 1: you and your colleagues Philip Pendlebury and Mohammed Rassul and

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Speaker 1: Iraqi Kurdish journalists were detained by the government. But oddly enough,

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Speaker 1: if I understand this correctly, you were detained when you returned,

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Speaker 1: right because you were gone to Turkey previously.

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Speaker 5: That's right, Yeah, yeah, that is right. We've been there

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Speaker 5: twice before filming. But you got to understand, like before,

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Speaker 5: when we were filming, the government wasn't as restrictive as

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Speaker 5: it is now, right, I mean, I mean that's not biased.

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Speaker 5: That's a pure fact. It's like the second jailer of

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Speaker 5: journalists worldwide. You can go to prison for saying something

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Speaker 5: bad about the government on Twitter. You know, it's crazy.

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Speaker 5: So when we were first there, it actually wasn't like that.

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Speaker 5: You know, there was a ceasefire between the Kurdish militants

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Speaker 5: and the government and it was a it was dicey,

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Speaker 5: but it wasn't as bad, right, And then when we

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Speaker 5: were there the third time, that's when the ceasefire was

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Speaker 5: very over. You know, it was open warfare in the

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Speaker 5: streets in the southeast, and we were kind of the

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Speaker 5: first to get swept up like that. You know, like

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Speaker 5: a lot of journalists after that started getting arrested, deported,

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Speaker 5: hundreds of like local Kurdish report has just completely gone,

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Speaker 5: you know, all in prison, MPs, everything. But we were

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Speaker 5: kind of at the start of that, you know, so

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Speaker 5: whilst it might be like, well, yeah, of course you

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Speaker 5: were going to get rest, it's like, actually, if you

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Speaker 5: look at the you know, the context of what was

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Speaker 5: going on at the time, No, like they could have

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Speaker 5: easily just reported us at the airport because we'd already

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Speaker 5: made a film with these Kurdish militants one time before,

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Speaker 5: so they could have just been like, now get out here.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't that at the time, right, It was kind

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Speaker 5: of the start of the I mean, like, you know,

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Speaker 5: the brutal authoritarianism wasn't quite there as it started. We

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Speaker 5: were kind of lucky because there are people that have

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Speaker 5: done like two years, you know, just we just they

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Speaker 5: just kind of let us out after like two weeks,

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Speaker 5: after being in several different prisons. There was a lot

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Speaker 5: of like international pressure and you know, I think they

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Speaker 5: were like, you know, like just get them out here

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Speaker 5: sort of thing. I could certainly tell in the jail,

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Speaker 5: Like one time the guard was like, you know, they

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Speaker 5: were like not that nice, and then after it was

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Speaker 5: on TV, they were like much nicer. All of a

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Speaker 5: sudden they were like, which is well right, And I

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Speaker 5: was like, what so that did kind of help? Actually,

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Speaker 5: you know, it really did.

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Speaker 4: At the time.

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Speaker 3: You're working for Vice News, correct, that's right. Yeah, So

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Speaker 3: how much help did you get from that organization or

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Speaker 3: how much perceived help did you get from that organization

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Speaker 3: when you're in that situation.

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Speaker 5: To be honest, Vice at the time were like excellent,

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Speaker 5: they helped us so much, you know. And there's a

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Speaker 5: lot of issues within journalism, specifically around conflict, like Al

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Speaker 5: Jazeera were in hot water the way they allegedly treated

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Speaker 5: some of their reporters when they went to prison, not

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Speaker 5: supporting them enough. But there's a few cases actually with

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Speaker 5: different news organizations. But honestly, like I can't fault Vice News,

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Speaker 5: and like, you know, I don't really get on with

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Speaker 5: them now, but what they did for us then it

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Speaker 5: was a different Vice News then, but what they did

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Speaker 5: for is then, like they did everything and more you

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Speaker 5: know what I mean. And to this day they're still

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Speaker 5: like looking after certain things because the case is still ongoing,

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Speaker 5: believe it or not, like five years last.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, man, it's.

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Speaker 1: This brings us to I think, a macro trend. So

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Speaker 1: according to the Committee to Protect Journalists, they issued a

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Speaker 1: report back in early December twenty nineteen where they said

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Speaker 1: the way they phreezed it was over twenty nineteen, at

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Speaker 1: least two hundred and fifty journalists across the planet have

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Speaker 1: been imprisoned somewhere for their reporting. And they also said

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Speaker 1: this is the fourth straight year that number has been

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Speaker 1: that high. So it goes, of course without saying for

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Speaker 1: a lot of our US listeners a restaurant on the

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Speaker 1: rise in the US as well, Jake, do you see

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Speaker 1: this trend increasing in the future, and if so, why

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Speaker 1: I do?

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Speaker 5: And I don't know why specifically, but my own theory

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Speaker 5: is that we're kind of this whole post truth world idea,

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Speaker 5: like it is kind of real, you know, like I

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Speaker 5: am really seeing it where things that used to matter

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Speaker 5: don't really matter anymore, right, Like, to be honest, I've

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Speaker 5: looked at report. I did a lot of research on

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Speaker 5: this when I got out of prison because I wanted

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Speaker 5: to think, like, how can I help other journalists that

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Speaker 5: end up in prison in the future, right, And if

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Speaker 5: you look at like the nineties and whatever, if a

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Speaker 5: journalist went to prison, it was a big deal, like

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Speaker 5: in whichever country they're from, right, like, and people were like, wow,

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Speaker 5: they're outraged. Honestly, Now like people are just kind of like, eh,

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Speaker 5: you know, oh that's bad tweet, you know, done, and

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Speaker 5: it's it's things don't have the same cultural impact anymore.

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Speaker 5: And I think I think social media is a lot

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Speaker 5: to do with it. I think technology has a lot

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Speaker 5: to do with it. And I think the whole like

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Speaker 5: post truth thing is a problem, you know, the rise

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Speaker 5: of kind of right wing populism where things can just

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Speaker 5: be shrugged off like oh, who cares about that? And

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Speaker 5: then everyone goes like, yeah cares, you know, things that

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Speaker 5: you know, like if Watergate happened now, I think I

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Speaker 5: don't know if people would be that bothered, you know,

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Speaker 5: like I really I'm not sure. And I just think

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Speaker 5: the whole what's the word, like the Overton window has

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Speaker 5: changed so it's been like smashed and kicked out with,

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Speaker 5: you know, and I just think things have changed so

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Speaker 5: much that honestly, like people just people don't really care

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Speaker 5: that much. So then authoritarian governments realize they can get

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Speaker 5: away with more, right, and they do well.

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Speaker 2: I mean, the term post truth in and of itself

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Speaker 2: is surreal and sounds like something from orwell like, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it really sounds like a joke, like it's satire, but

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Speaker 2: that's what it is. Or it's like postmodern but we

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Speaker 2: know what modernism is. Truth is an objective thing, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like it's true or it's not true. But we're living

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Speaker 2: in this time that's called post truth, or at least

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Speaker 2: that's a term that's being thrown around, and I think

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Speaker 2: it's totally on point. Qan nine utterly a product of

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Speaker 2: this concept.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I think they're post post truth, you know what

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Speaker 5: I mean.

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Speaker 2: Let's I mean, let's let talk a little bit about

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Speaker 2: the podcast, you know, I mean, yeah, experience is the name,

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Speaker 2: and you like we said at the top of the show,

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Speaker 2: there's this insane web that is QAnon and honestly, we

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Speaker 2: do this show, you know, weekly, and when we first

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Speaker 2: ran across it, I was like, I don't know what

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Speaker 2: the hell this is. I don't understand what this is,

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Speaker 2: and I need you.

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Speaker 4: I think we are. It's it's a headache for me

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Speaker 4: as well.

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Speaker 5: But like I mean, I wanted a little break from

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Speaker 5: constantly doing conflict you know, like with my my project

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Speaker 5: Popular Front, it's all conflict reporting. And I was like, man,

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Speaker 5: I need it. I need just like a little break

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Speaker 5: from this. But for me, I can't really have a break.

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Speaker 5: I gotta be working. I like being busy. So I

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Speaker 5: was like, I know, like I'll do another project. And

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Speaker 5: you know, like I said, I've been listening to this

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Speaker 5: podcast for years, I love conspiracy theories, you know, Like

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Speaker 5: when I was a teenager, I used to believe in

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Speaker 5: the most craziest stuff, you know, and then I like

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Speaker 5: what is.

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Speaker 4: Wrong with me?

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Speaker 5: But now as an adult, I just I just still

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Speaker 5: love re searching them, looking into them, finding out why

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Speaker 5: they happen. And there's always that one percent of me

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Speaker 5: that's like maybe you know what I mean. It keeps

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Speaker 5: me interested in them. So when I I you know,

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Speaker 5: I you know how people will watch like you guys say,

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Speaker 5: like trash TV, right, like like reality TV.

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Speaker 4: They people watch that.

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Speaker 5: To one wind me, I watched conspiracy documentaries like outrageous ones,

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Speaker 5: you know what I mean. So I came across quan

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Speaker 5: On just naturally, you know, like watching big Foot, watching whatever,

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Speaker 5: and then and then there was quan On and I

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Speaker 5: was like, this is like the mother of the conspiracy theories, right,

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Speaker 5: It's like the whole umbrella of every conspiracy theory I've

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Speaker 5: been reading since I was a teenager, and everything's under it.

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Speaker 5: And when I saw it was taken off, I just

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Speaker 5: was like, surely not, like come on, Like so that's

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Speaker 5: I got to the point where I see the election

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Speaker 5: coming up, and I was like, man, I want to

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Speaker 5: do something like about this. And there's some great podcasts

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Speaker 5: already out there, you know, qan On Anonymous, and you know,

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Speaker 5: there's other ones out there, and so I was like,

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Speaker 5: what can the angle be? So I guess my angle

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Speaker 5: was like, let me bring all these great researchers together

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Speaker 5: in my research and we can kind of get you know,

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Speaker 5: by the end of it. We want to be able

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Speaker 5: to say, look, this is who we think Q is,

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Speaker 5: not just because of this hunch, not just because this

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Speaker 5: guy says so we want to be like a a

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Speaker 5: b at to be you know what I mean. This

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Speaker 5: matches up, that matches up and at the same time

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Speaker 5: kind of tell the Truanton story and unwrap it all

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Speaker 5: for everybody. You know, this is not a podcast for

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Speaker 5: people that already know about Q. I want it to

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Speaker 5: be accessible for everyone, right, And it's hard. It's very

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Speaker 5: hard to write and like this incredible web of like

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Speaker 5: information that is just so unbelievably far fetched, but to

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Speaker 5: then kind of be like, well, this is maybe why

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Speaker 5: they believe it, and this is where it comes from.

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Speaker 5: And ultimately, you know, I'm not actually trying to laugh

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Speaker 5: at these Q andons, even though I am kinda laughing, Like,

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Speaker 5: ultimately it's quite sad, you know, like there have been

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Speaker 5: families torn apart from this, and it's sad that so

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Speaker 5: many people can believe in things so outrageous while saying,

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Speaker 5: you know, fake news at the news, you know, And

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Speaker 5: I think that's a failure of not just the establishment.

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Speaker 5: I think that's a failure of a lot of things,

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Speaker 5: media education. It's like, yeah, it's like the ultimate endpoint

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Speaker 5: of all the conspiracy theories in the last twenty years.

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Speaker 5: I think that's a long way of explaining it.

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Speaker 1: But you guys might do No, this is perfect because

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Speaker 1: one thing that strikes me about Q clearance is that

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Speaker 1: you've taken on a herculean task of unraveling you know,

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Speaker 1: the almost like the folklore etymology of how this came

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Speaker 1: to be, the future of where it, where it might go,

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Speaker 1: how it evolves. There's there's an excellent interview where you

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Speaker 1: talk a bit about QAnon as a meta conspiracy, and

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Speaker 1: there are so many conspiracies that reach that meta point.

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Speaker 1: It's just usually they take several decades or centuries to

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Speaker 1: get there.

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Speaker 4: Exactly, and this one just went like three years with that.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well will you guys, You guys, I remember and

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Speaker 3: you probably do too, I know you do, ben uh

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Speaker 3: looking at above top Secret and other forums like that

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Speaker 3: and reading, you know, an anonymous post with somebody saying

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Speaker 3: they've got all this secret information. Well but like so,

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Speaker 3: I I mean, we would look at that stuff and

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Speaker 3: do our level best to attempt to prove something or

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Speaker 3: to find some kind of evidence somewhere of stuff that's

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Speaker 3: being said there. And it was for me personally a

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Speaker 3: very exciting hour to two hours, maybe a couple of

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Speaker 3: days of like going down rabbit holes. And I'm wondering

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Speaker 3: how much this phenomenon, this idea that there is a

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Speaker 3: secret person named Q is playing into those same things

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Speaker 3: those same chemicals that were being released in my brain

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Speaker 3: when that was my pursuit.

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Speaker 5: No, no, no, definitely, I think you're right. That's the

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Speaker 5: crux of it. Actually, that's that's how it kind of spread,

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Speaker 5: I think, because it's fun, right, it's exciting because Que

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Speaker 5: says to them, you do your own investigations. You are

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Speaker 5: the news now, so you get all these like wine

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Speaker 5: mums and whatever, like, no offense to wine mums, But

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Speaker 5: what I mean is they don't have anything else to

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Speaker 5: do a lot of the time, right the kids or wherever,

432
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:17,719
Speaker 5: and so they're just like all day on the computer.

433
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 5: They've got time to research it, and they just feel

434
00:21:21,440 --> 00:21:24,119
Speaker 5: they have like there's an accomplishment, right, And then you

435
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 5: can share it with other people and go hey, look

436
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 5: what I found, and then they go, oh wow. Then

437
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,200
Speaker 5: a community starts to form, and then you can reaffirm

438
00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,840
Speaker 5: each other's value based on the research you've done. That

439
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,320
Speaker 5: person is useful to my group, that person is useful.

440
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:37,560
Speaker 5: And then they're all in this big thing where they

441
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,399
Speaker 5: think they're being led by intel from the White House.

442
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,920
Speaker 5: They feel like the foot soldiers of a revolution from

443
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:49,880
Speaker 5: their desk. And that's what's very addictive. I think for them,

444
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 5: you know, and it kind of doesn't matter when it

445
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 5: pans out. It's like, oh, that didn't happen, even though

446
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 5: Ju said it was going to happen. Literally at this

447
00:21:57,560 --> 00:21:59,919
Speaker 5: time and day in fact, as we record this right now,

448
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,320
Speaker 5: this is three years to the day of the first

449
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:06,119
Speaker 5: ever q drop on four Chune when she said he

450
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 5: was going to arrest Hillary Clinton or whatever.

451
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 4: Didn't happen.

452
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 5: But but it almost doesn't matter when the predictions don't

453
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 5: come through because they're having so much fun. They're so

454
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:16,920
Speaker 5: wrapped up in it that it's like, we'll just find

455
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 5: a reason why that didn't matter. I mean, you know, ironically,

456
00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 5: it's it's who is qan on the friends who made

457
00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 5: along the way? Right, But unfortunately it's not it's not

458
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,919
Speaker 5: that chill at all. It's zero percent chill, you know,

459
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,760
Speaker 5: So unfortunately it could become dangerous.

460
00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 1: They just want to follow up the with that statement

461
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: about herculean tasks. So one thing that is cult like

462
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: frankly about this is a bit of the choose your

463
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: own adventure vibe. If you remember those old paperbacks, absolutely, yeah, yeah,

464
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,720
Speaker 1: have you have you run in when you're when you're

465
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 1: exploring this story, I don't want to spoil things for

466
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: the show, but have have you seen much of what

467
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:00,880
Speaker 1: I would describe as individual customization? Like have you seen

468
00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,520
Speaker 1: someone be the voice of reason in one of these

469
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: Q forums and say, look, this part of it's true,

470
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:11,800
Speaker 1: this part of it is not. Does that happen or

471
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:13,520
Speaker 1: it's all more or less lockstep?

472
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 5: No?

473
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,200
Speaker 4: No, no, it does happen.

474
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 5: Man. Actually, it's like that's a good question because I

475
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,159
Speaker 5: was reading something just the other day where like a

476
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 5: guy that was an ardent Q I started looking at

477
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 5: his posting like progress and he was just getting like,

478
00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 5: hang on, what when is it going to happen? When

479
00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 5: is you know, they call it the plan. No one

480
00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:33,680
Speaker 5: really knows what the plan is, but don't worry about that.

481
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 5: So they're kind of like when is it going to happen?

482
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,600
Speaker 5: And this guy was just like this is nuts. Like

483
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,159
Speaker 5: he literally like got himself out of it. He was like,

484
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 5: none of these predictions have happened, you know, like, and

485
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 5: he kind of left and the other people are like

486
00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 5: more so. There's a guy that I watch right and

487
00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 5: he seems like such a nice guy, but he's deep

488
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,439
Speaker 5: in Q and on, very believing in conspiracy, and he's

489
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 5: like more moderate, like he's he's not an anti semi,

490
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 5: he's not a racist, you know, and he's not really

491
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 5: deep deep in the more.

492
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:06,800
Speaker 4: Wacky side of Q.

493
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 5: So he was what you might be able to call

494
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 5: like a more moderate que And then you have like

495
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,240
Speaker 5: the far far extreme version of Q where it's all

496
00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 5: satanic and babies are being eaten and all of that.

497
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 4: So there are levels to it.

498
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 5: But I say that even he's like, oh, this guy

499
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,920
Speaker 5: seems lovely, and then he's like, well, when we get

500
00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:26,080
Speaker 5: our way, we'll hang all the Democrats for treason.

501
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 4: And you're like, oh, he's not that nice, you know.

502
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 5: So even the like well kind of to do ones

503
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,919
Speaker 5: are like have this very dark concept of violence at

504
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 5: the end of this, you know, And I think that's

505
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 5: something that interested me where kind of from what I'm

506
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 5: doing with conflict actually, you know, like I've spent like

507
00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,639
Speaker 5: what seven years reporting from conflict, and I you know,

508
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 5: I engage in Twitter a lot, and I'm a very like,

509
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,600
Speaker 5: very online guy, like I always have been of you know,

510
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 5: like something awful, like big time into like four Chan.

511
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,920
Speaker 5: What it was cool when like you know, Anonymous were

512
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 5: on there as a kid and whatever. So I've always

513
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 5: been very online, and then I see these guys that

514
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 5: treat war like a football match. I'm on this side,

515
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 5: I'm on this side, Jake, who's the you know, who's

516
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,080
Speaker 5: the win, who's the good guy? And then there'll be

517
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 5: some horrific video where the side that they like, you

518
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,880
Speaker 5: know one, and then they're like yeah, great, and it's like, well,

519
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 5: what you're cheering on is like mass death and horrific violence, right.

520
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 5: The reality of that when you see it, you know,

521
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 5: I've seen some I'm gonna be like, I've seen stuff, man,

522
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:26,399
Speaker 5: but you know what i mean, Like, I've seen a

523
00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 5: few gnarly situations and it's not you don't go yeah,

524
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 5: you just go like, isn't this sad? Like isn't this

525
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 5: horrific that this is happening? And I think the Qanons

526
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 5: have a similar vibe where they're saying like, yeah, we'll

527
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 5: hang everybody for treason and all of this stuff, and

528
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:43,959
Speaker 5: it's like do you know what that will look like?

529
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 5: Like you are you gonna do that? Like you're the

530
00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 5: foot soldiers of q What are You're going to hang people?

531
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 4: En mass?

532
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 5: You know, like just because they voted for a different way,

533
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,439
Speaker 5: So that's when you start getting into the darker side

534
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,040
Speaker 5: of it. So I guess my point is like, yeah,

535
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 5: there are different levels to it, like you say, and

536
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:02,320
Speaker 5: some people are like, oh, don't be silly, that's that's

537
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:06,119
Speaker 5: too extreme, But ultimately they all have the belief in

538
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 5: the plan, and the plan is pretty nasty.

539
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:12,320
Speaker 1: And we'll be back with more from Jake Hanrahan after

540
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: a word from our sponsor, and we're back. This reminds

541
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: me of something we noticed in your conflict reporting career

542
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,639
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. You were embedded with both the Ukraine Army

543
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: and then also with a separatist group. And so those

544
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: folks who so I can I can see where you

545
00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: would say, well, these are both this is tragedy happening,

546
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,720
Speaker 1: you know, regardless of affiliation, and that's something that's something

547
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: a lot of people miss.

548
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: Uh.

549
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,080
Speaker 1: And in interest of I know, we're asking some heroin questions,

550
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 1: so we thought we thought you might enjoy a little

551
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: bit of a softball that they might have fun with,

552
00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 1: because part of this show is you have to objectively

553
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 1: look at everything, right, So, Jake, where would you say

554
00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: some of the claims from QAnon to begin to you know,

555
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,400
Speaker 1: fall apart just a little well.

556
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 5: I mean, the very first post was Hillary Clinton is

557
00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 5: going to be arrested in like two days, and then

558
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,880
Speaker 5: she didn't, so you know, that was a big one.

559
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 5: But the point I always make to a lot of people,

560
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:27,919
Speaker 5: and I'm going to get a bit dark here, but

561
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 5: I have to because it's necessary. The point I say

562
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 5: to a lot of people is like, so QAnon is

563
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,560
Speaker 5: big on save the kids, right, And where QAnon is

564
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 5: actually right in some ways is there are elite pedophile rings.

565
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 5: We've seen it with Epstein and the horrific way that

566
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 5: you know, the poor young girls have treated the victims,

567
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 5: and it's disgusting, and you know Trump was involved, Clinton

568
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 5: was involved, a lot of very important.

569
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 4: Powerful people involved.

570
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 5: Is bipartisan, right, So yeah, that's very horrific. But then

571
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,840
Speaker 5: they jump the shark in one second, right, and it's

572
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,919
Speaker 5: like it goes from this is serious to like Hillary

573
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,440
Speaker 5: Clinton is eating babies. It's like, oh my god, come on.

574
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 5: But so they're they're very invested in like save the kids.

575
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 5: We hate pedophiles as an elite pedophile ring, So why

576
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 5: then do there's q us eh Chan, which for years

577
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 5: openly shared pedophilia, like openly, there were there were pedophiles

578
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 5: on that board, like not even coded really like trying

579
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 5: to work out to share pedophilia together. That was thet

580
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 5: like the most disgusting thing about a chan. Why on

581
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 5: earth would Q go there to dump this information? Right,

582
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,360
Speaker 5: Like they they can't give you an answer for that.

583
00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 5: It's oh, well they were forced into these If qu's

584
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:40,760
Speaker 5: an intelligence asset, make your own website, right, Like, surely

585
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 5: he has a way of doing it.

586
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 4: He's got Q clearance. I'm sure he knows a few

587
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 4: yet guys.

588
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 5: For Christ's sake, So that is like for me, just

589
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 5: the basic things like that are like, come on, Like

590
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 5: why would they do that? Because if you say feil predictions,

591
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 5: they say, ah, it was a red herring. You know,

592
00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 5: anything that doesn't happen was a part of the plan.

593
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 5: So you can't combat that. But like, you know, I've

594
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 5: actually had some discussions with a few Q curious people

595
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 5: down at my books in Gym, and I've explained, like

596
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 5: I used that example, why would I use a place

597
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 5: where pedophilia is accepted to rail against elite pedophile rings.

598
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 5: It doesn't make any sense. And people kind of go like, oh, yeah,

599
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 5: you know, so I think that's a way to kind

600
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 5: of break it down. But again, there are like like

601
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 5: I said, there are like facets of truth, and they've

602
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 5: really whoever it is, has done a good job of

603
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 5: jumping on that because everyone I knows anyway, like even

604
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,640
Speaker 5: like friends that are not involved in journalism whatever, they

605
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 5: know about Epstein. They've got kids, they've got sisters, you know,

606
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 5: they're disgusted by it, and rightly so. And when they

607
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 5: read about it and they're like, wow, Bill Clinton was

608
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 5: on his plane how many times, or like you know, Trump.

609
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,200
Speaker 4: Said what about Epstein? It's gross?

610
00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:51,840
Speaker 5: Right, So then if Q comes along and says, oh,

611
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 5: but here's the secret side of it. Firstly, it's a

612
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:58,080
Speaker 5: bit spicier, right, like the lies were always a bit spicier.

613
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:00,640
Speaker 5: And secondly, there's a whole community are going to fill

614
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 5: you in and inform you before you know it. You know,

615
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 5: a friend said to me the other day, he said,

616
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 5: you know, I've lost a few friends to qan on

617
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 5: And it's like, yeah, like that happens, Like you would

618
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 5: just lose people to it, man, And it's it's like

619
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 5: a drug. It's like they're on a drug but they're not.

620
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 5: It's it's I don't know, man, it's it's very worrying

621
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 5: that I never thought, you know, like I said, years

622
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 5: of reading above top secret and like listen to you

623
00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 5: guys and all that, Like years of that, I never

624
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 5: thought this would happen. I'll be honest, Like it was

625
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,800
Speaker 5: always a fringe thing that was fun. Now it's like

626
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 5: I still laugh at it, but now and then I

627
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 5: catch myself and like I shouldn't really laugh at that,

628
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:37,920
Speaker 5: Like this is actually serious.

629
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 3: You know, You've touched on a lot of really important

630
00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: things there, Jake, And it feels to me inevitable. It

631
00:30:43,640 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 3: feels like this was going to happen because as we

632
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,240
Speaker 3: have better access to the internet, just as humanity, as

633
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 3: these real truths like you're talking about with the Epstein's

634
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,400
Speaker 3: and the pedophiles that have been uncovered in very high

635
00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 3: places in government and me, and you realize that it's

636
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,760
Speaker 3: happening more and more, and you feel completely helpless to

637
00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: do anything about it. You know, like every person walking

638
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,080
Speaker 3: around knows that there are children being abused right now,

639
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 3: and you feel like there's nothing you can do about it.

640
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 3: But when Q comes along as even a possibility, as

641
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:22,240
Speaker 3: even a glimmer of possibility out in the world that

642
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: something could be done, and perhaps I can do something

643
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 3: about it by researching this. I think it is something

644
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: very desirable that a lot of us may feel inside.

645
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 4: That's a great point. Yeah, yeah, it's like you're right.

646
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,360
Speaker 5: It's like they can be useful to stop this, Like yeah,

647
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 5: and it's hate to keep bringing it up, but so

648
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 5: much of the QAnon mythos, if you like, does revolve

649
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 5: around elite pedophile rings and it's like, yeah, that is

650
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 5: the worst thing I could ever think of, Like and

651
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 5: it's real. So then you're right, Like people wanted what

652
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:55,640
Speaker 5: can I do?

653
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:56,400
Speaker 4: What can I do?

654
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 5: You know, in lieu of setting up some kind of

655
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,719
Speaker 5: militia around doing whatever? They would you know big man

656
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 5: talk that they often do. They can now do Q right,

657
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 5: Like oh, like you know, we can we can be

658
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 5: with they say, like with a digital army, like we're with.

659
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,239
Speaker 5: They don't say serving, but they kind of, you know,

660
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 5: they imply that we're serving, like the Q agenda, we're

661
00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 5: the news.

662
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 4: Now what do they say?

663
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 5: There's there's like all these sayings they have and yeah,

664
00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 5: basically all of them boiled down to like what you've

665
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 5: just said. It's like we're doing something right, and it's

666
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 5: and ironically, a lot of what they're doing is is

667
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,400
Speaker 5: serious pain for families and serious like upheavals of people's lives,

668
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:41,040
Speaker 5: you know, especially when they completely arbitrarily accuse someone of

669
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:43,680
Speaker 5: something horrific, you know, and it's like they haven't done anything,

670
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 5: and just because of some insane, tiny coincidence, then they

671
00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 5: decide that person is in on it, right, And it's like, man,

672
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 5: you know, it's not a popular thing to say, but

673
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 5: I think a lot of them their heart is in

674
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,040
Speaker 5: the right place, you know what I mean, and the

675
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 5: brain isn't. It's just the brain isn't. And that's why

676
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:02,959
Speaker 5: it's sad.

677
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 4: You know.

678
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 5: It's like again, like there's a lot of you know,

679
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,800
Speaker 5: and a lot of I guess Q researchers have been

680
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 5: doing this longer than I have, especially in America. I know,

681
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 5: they kind of don't really like that. I'm kind of like, no, like,

682
00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 5: let's talk to them, let's see what they've got to say.

683
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,080
Speaker 5: And I respect that that's how they do it. But

684
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 5: for me, there's a part of me it just feel like,

685
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 5: you know, a little bit of empathy towards it. It's yeah,

686
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 5: it's sad, right, Like it's sad, Like I know, like

687
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 5: people who they are like their mom and dad don't

688
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 5: speak to them anymore because they're like, now you're a

689
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 5: part of the cabal, and it's like what it's began, unfortune?

690
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 1: And then also, you know what's interesting, I think a

691
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:46,800
Speaker 1: point we should emphasize is that earlier we said, you know,

692
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,040
Speaker 1: one of the first things you said about Q falling

693
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: apart is that the first prediction was demonstrably incorrect. But

694
00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 1: Q does something that is very common to organizations of

695
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: this type, which is past the burden of validity onto

696
00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,720
Speaker 1: the consumer or the audience member or the foot soldiers

697
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: of Q. So it's kind of like when people think

698
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,359
Speaker 1: an apocalyptic cult got their into the world prediction, right,

699
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,719
Speaker 1: we just misinterpreted it. Like, how do you see that

700
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 1: community handle those corrections? Do they say, well, we just

701
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 1: misinterpreted what Q said. I know, the red herring theory

702
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:33,399
Speaker 1: is popular, like did Q knew someone was infiltrating this

703
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: freely accessible message board and threw these red herrings out?

704
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,440
Speaker 1: Like how do people deal with that when these predictions

705
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: don't in fact come true?

706
00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 5: Well, brace yourself. What I have seen is Hillary was

707
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,640
Speaker 5: arrested when they said and now the Hillary we see

708
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 5: now is like a body double or a clone or

709
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:54,919
Speaker 5: something like that.

710
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 4: So there's one for you.

711
00:34:56,520 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 5: Like that's just to you know, immediately jump the shock

712
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 5: one hundred mile an hour. That's one kind of way

713
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 5: to do it, and then others are it's part of

714
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 5: the plan. Haha, fools, you fell through it. What you

715
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,359
Speaker 5: took that? You took that seriously, he didn't mean it.

716
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,719
Speaker 5: It was a metaphor you know what I mean, like

717
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 5: the ways of snake around. It almost as if like

718
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 5: you're the idiot, and it's like, hang on, you just

719
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:24,560
Speaker 5: following this guy that made a false prediction, like a

720
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 5: huge prediction. But it's almost like, nah, you're the idiot.

721
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 5: You don't see the message right, And that is kind

722
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,440
Speaker 5: of powerful, I guess, because surely there's a lot of

723
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 5: people having doubt, but then when someone comes along it says,

724
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 5: don't have doubt.

725
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,879
Speaker 4: We were right. It was them who were wrong. It's

726
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:39,560
Speaker 4: gonna happen.

727
00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 5: It just that was he Q had to say it

728
00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 5: that way to get us all flared up. Now we're

729
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 5: on board and without that right, like he had to

730
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,439
Speaker 5: make the spark to set the fire, and it's it's crazy, man,

731
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 5: But again it is this post truth thing of like

732
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 5: it just doesn't matter, you know, And then they also

733
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 5: do the thing of I mean there are some weird coincidences,

734
00:36:00,920 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 5: as there will be like there's so hundreds and hundreds

735
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,320
Speaker 5: of Q posts, so every now like one in a

736
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,440
Speaker 5: thousand or what word, what hell many it is, they'll

737
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,279
Speaker 5: be like, you know, Q will say something and then

738
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 5: Trump might say something kind of similar, and then it's like, well,

739
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 5: that's an affirmation for them, right, So then it's like, well,

740
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,480
Speaker 5: the false the false prediction doesn't matter anymore because the

741
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 5: affirmation is stronger, so dwell on that. Like they don't

742
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 5: bring up the false thing, right, they don't go, oh

743
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 5: well forget about that.

744
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 4: It's just it's gone and here's the affirmation. Well that's good.

745
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 4: I mean when.

746
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 5: Trump in the last month is twice as the president

747
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 5: of the most powerful country on earth not condemned a

748
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:42,239
Speaker 5: conspiracy theory that started on fore chan and thrived on

749
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 5: a message board that allowed pedophilia, you know, for them,

750
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 5: that's a very very big thing, as it should be

751
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 5: for anybody like that, no matter what political side you're on.

752
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:57,680
Speaker 5: I think any straightforward thinking person should go, wow, that's

753
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,480
Speaker 5: very worrying that he didn't say, of course this is nonsense, right,

754
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 5: So for qanons, that was like Christmas.

755
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 2: But like so there's a section in actually it's the

756
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:10,880
Speaker 2: whole episode, the second episode of your podcast, where you

757
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 2: you explore the notion that QAnon is like a left

758
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,920
Speaker 2: wing prank. And I don't want to spoil anything about it,

759
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,279
Speaker 2: because there's a whole thing you go into, which was

760
00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 2: I'd never heard of like this potential almost like theatrical

761
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 2: kind of like performance art group that does this kind

762
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,719
Speaker 2: of stuff really interesting. Don't want to even go into there,

763
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:29,520
Speaker 2: got to listen.

764
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 4: To the episode to find out.

765
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 2: But when you really start digging into it and just

766
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,759
Speaker 2: the random absurdity of all of this stuff, and then

767
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 2: you know, bringing in Satanism, which anyone that actually has

768
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 2: done any research into Satanism knows that Satanic panics are

769
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 2: always hoaxes and there's always some kind of misunderstanding at

770
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,400
Speaker 2: the heart of it, and true Satanism is really almost

771
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 2: more of a punk rock kind of like middle finger

772
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 2: to the establishment. You're not actually like drinking goat's blood

773
00:37:56,800 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: and like drawing pentagrams and like abandoned churches or something

774
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,439
Speaker 2: or anything like that. But like so when you start

775
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:04,600
Speaker 2: digging into it really does feel like it could be

776
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 2: that thing, and yet it's been mainstream so acutely. And

777
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 2: if it was meant to be this like left wing

778
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:17,240
Speaker 2: prank to make right wingers look stupid and it reads

779
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,759
Speaker 2: that way, how is it caught on in such an

780
00:38:20,239 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: insane way? Like I can't wrap my head around. Is

781
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: it the post truth thing? Is it like boredom?

782
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 4: Is I don't know?

783
00:38:28,640 --> 00:38:32,440
Speaker 5: I asked myself this all the time, Like honestly, Like

784
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 5: the other day I was reading about like are we

785
00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 5: in a simulation? I don't, obviously, I don't believe that

786
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 5: at all, But He's just a fascinating concept. I was reading,

787
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:44,960
Speaker 5: and I was thinking, like QAnon could be like all

788
00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 5: these years I've spent on like conspiracy forums and stuff

789
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 5: like as someone made a program to just mug me off,

790
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 5: Like you know what I mean, it was a simulation,

791
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 5: And am I like like recreating my own monster? Like

792
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 5: because it's that crazy, right, You're just like sure not,

793
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,399
Speaker 5: surely not. But to answer your question, I think, yeah,

794
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 5: you know what it is. It's like it's boredom. It's

795
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,720
Speaker 5: like we I think culturally we're in a very strange place.

796
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 5: I feel like we're in between, you know, like the

797
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 5: early two thousands is gone.

798
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 4: The twenty tens is here. We're really at the peak.

799
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,760
Speaker 5: Well, I guess we're always at the peak of progress,

800
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 5: but you know we've really hit our stride within like

801
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:27,000
Speaker 5: senseless constant scrolling, you know, like I'm thirty man, and

802
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 5: I'm so so glad I didn't grow up with that.

803
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 5: You know, we had a phone and we check it

804
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 5: for like are you here yet?

805
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:34,959
Speaker 4: Yes?

806
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 5: No, that was it, you know, like there wasn't this

807
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 5: constant Like for me, technology was perfect when it was

808
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 5: PS one's and Nokia thirty three tens.

809
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,360
Speaker 4: You know, it went too far for me after that.

810
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 5: But I think it's that the lack of connectivity in

811
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 5: human you know, face to face and then COVID man

812
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 5: that was a real problem that really put a lot

813
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,279
Speaker 5: of people into their bedrooms. That for me is when

814
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,279
Speaker 5: there's a real weird thing that I don't don't think

815
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 5: anyone has tackled yet, not with any kind of sensitivity

816
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 5: anyway where I see it where I'm from, like working

817
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 5: class communities are getting hyper conspiracy conspiratorial, and it's I've

818
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 5: seen it there more than anywhere else, right, And that

819
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,759
Speaker 5: comes from we already distrust our government because I mean

820
00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 5: trust me. Where I live, local government doesn't care about us.

821
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:25,880
Speaker 5: They do not care like you know, we have like

822
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,360
Speaker 5: volunteers have to set up food banks because they're just

823
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:31,080
Speaker 5: not enough, right, And so already you grow up knowing

824
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,840
Speaker 5: the police often will hate me and stop and search

825
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 5: me for nothing. The government clearly don't hate me. And

826
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 5: then you're in a place where there's bad education as well,

827
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 5: because you grew up poor. You didn't go to a

828
00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 5: nice school that you already set up to distrust all authority,

829
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 5: which you know, it's I think it's fine. I kind

830
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,759
Speaker 5: of do myself, but unfortunately these people you know, and

831
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 5: these people are smart.

832
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 4: Man.

833
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 5: Just because you're from a bad background or like poor background,

834
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 5: don't mean you're not smart. But instead of getting the

835
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 5: knowledge and processing it correctly, it just kind of sits

836
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 5: there and stew So it's like, well, I've read, I'm

837
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 5: well read. Now it's true, and it's like, nah, man,

838
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 5: there's there's a I don't know what it is. I'm

839
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 5: not smart enough to know it. But there's a disconnect.

840
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 5: Way of being well read and reading a lot of research.

841
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 5: You can't just say Okay, that's real, you know, because

842
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 5: that would be like saying I know about space because

843
00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:21,480
Speaker 5: I watched all the star Wars.

844
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 4: You know what I'm saying.

845
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, the processing of the information for some

846
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,400
Speaker 5: reason is going in a weird direction. And I'm seeing

847
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,720
Speaker 5: a lot of it, man. And I'm seeing like friends

848
00:41:30,719 --> 00:41:32,920
Speaker 5: from the way around the way and just being like,

849
00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 5: you know, and they ask me, you know, hey, j

850
00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 5: you must have seen this. I'm like, yeah, I mean

851
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,640
Speaker 5: I did, but it's nonsense. And they're like, ah, come on, man,

852
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:41,840
Speaker 5: you're part of you, part of they I see you

853
00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 5: work for the media. What about And it's like, oh

854
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 5: my god, Like so my friends, you know, I mean,

855
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 5: most of my friends are smart enough to not go

856
00:41:49,160 --> 00:41:50,920
Speaker 5: for it, but some of my friends will be like,

857
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 5: I know it. I'm like, okay, you're believe in Facebook

858
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 5: posts and h hm posts above your friend who you

859
00:41:56,760 --> 00:41:59,160
Speaker 5: know in your whole life in a matter of a year,

860
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,879
Speaker 5: that's happened, you know, And it's man, I mean it's

861
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 5: happening in all communities, but specifically I'm seeing it with

862
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 5: this thing.

863
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 1: It reminds me. You know, one point I wish people

864
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 1: talked about more is that that the first conspiracy theory

865
00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: many people learn about in the West. They learn about

866
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: when they're very young. It's Santa Claus, a group of

867
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: powerful people adults collude successfully, right, and then when you

868
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: learn about it, you have to be in on it.

869
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,600
Speaker 1: I assure you this The conversation that you just told

870
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:34,480
Speaker 1: us about happens to us, as you might imagine, pretty frequently.

871
00:42:34,520 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and I think I think what we're talking

872
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: about here is you know, you can't read a correspondence

873
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:47,280
Speaker 1: course on swimming and then just go across the English channel.

874
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 5: Right.

875
00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 1: That's part of the reason that we have to value

876
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: primary sources, we have to value cross checking, and we

877
00:42:55,239 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 1: have to value the credibility of something. But the disconnect

878
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:07,080
Speaker 1: perhaps comes from seeking agency, right, because what's do do

879
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:12,760
Speaker 1: you think people find psychologically find conspiracy theories comforting because

880
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,840
Speaker 1: the alternative would be rampant incompetence and chaos.

881
00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 5: I don't well on some level, But I can answer

882
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 5: this from a personal point of view, you know, Like

883
00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 5: I said, I love watching conspiracy stuff, and I think

884
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,320
Speaker 5: it comes from because the alternative is very boring. Actually,

885
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 5: like how unbelievably boring is it to be?

886
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:34,799
Speaker 1: Like?

887
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:38,560
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, like all the politicians are just horrific scumbags

888
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 5: who come in to get their money and power and leave.

889
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,520
Speaker 5: It's like, oh, well that's I mean, that's obviously what's

890
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 5: happening in my opinion anyway. But it's like that's a

891
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 5: bit more boring than you know, nine to eleven was

892
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:54,440
Speaker 5: an inside job. It's a little bit more boring than

893
00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 5: all of that. So yeah, yeah, maybe it's just and

894
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 5: and again, like even me, man, I watched what is it,

895
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 5: the New Pearl Harbor, like some six hour documentary. It's

896
00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:07,640
Speaker 5: like the New Loose Change. Right about nine to eleven,

897
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, this is going to be a treat.

898
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,279
Speaker 5: Let me get into this tonight, and like properly, I

899
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 5: was like laughing out loud at some of it, but

900
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 5: then some of it I was like, ohh And then

901
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 5: when it finished, I was like, come on, man, what

902
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 5: is wrong with you? But there's that one percent of

903
00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 5: like even in me, like I feel like I'm quite

904
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 5: a logical guy, Like even me, the one percent of

905
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 5: like that's interesting for me. Cryptids right, bigfoot and that

906
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 5: I don't I think they might, you know, and people

907
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 5: walking me on Twitter like someone said to me, I

908
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,799
Speaker 5: can't believe you're this like serious war journalist and you're

909
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,759
Speaker 5: talking about Mothman, Like what is wrong with you? And

910
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 5: first I'm like, bore off, leave me alone. And secondly

911
00:44:41,560 --> 00:44:43,120
Speaker 5: I'm like, well, you know, I don't know.

912
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:45,080
Speaker 4: But that's that's fine, that's cryptids.

913
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 5: But like I think, what my point I'm trying to

914
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 5: get to is the curiosity.

915
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 4: People have curiosity, like you.

916
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,640
Speaker 5: Just mentioned like Santa Claus right, kids love that, man,

917
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 5: you know, any kids in my family, I tell them, yeah,

918
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,080
Speaker 5: it's real because you see them like, wow, it's on

919
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:01,759
Speaker 5: the sleigh and it's that's fun. Man, that's so exhilarating

920
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 5: for a kid. And yet that's a good example you use.

921
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 5: I never thought way of it that way, because it's

922
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:08,600
Speaker 5: the same way for a conspiracy theory, like don't worry,

923
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:09,760
Speaker 5: I got the inside knowledge.

924
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 4: That's so fun.

925
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 2: And yet it somehow manages to not just like wreck

926
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 2: your whole worldview and you find out or maybe it

927
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 2: does for some kids, like it's such a betrayal ultimately,

928
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 2: like oh, you actively lie to me on purpose, you know,

929
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 2: for my benefit, to give me joy or whatever. But

930
00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,479
Speaker 2: still it's like, if you're lying, Ben, you've made this point.

931
00:45:29,480 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 2: If you're lying about this. What else are you lying about?

932
00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:33,280
Speaker 2: Is everybody lying about everything?

933
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 4: You know?

934
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,560
Speaker 3: That's exactly when to bring up no, because it feels

935
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:40,200
Speaker 3: to me like just since two thousand and five, which

936
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 3: is when loose Change. I think that's when the first

937
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 3: loose change came out, and in between that one and

938
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 3: the last one we started the show, and honestly was

939
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 3: because loose change is one of those things that really

940
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 3: spurs your mind to think differently, like the Matrix coming

941
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 3: out in nineteen ninety nine. A lot of these the

942
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,800
Speaker 3: meat and things that make you want to think differently.

943
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 3: And then, as you know, individuals like you start looking

944
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 3: into and researching something, whether it's ENCRYPTID, whether it's you know,

945
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:15,160
Speaker 3: a human experimentation that occurred in Saint Louis. In a

946
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 3: certain time, you start you start to feel like the

947
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,919
Speaker 3: rug is being pulled out from you completely on what

948
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 3: you used to believe, the truths you know from Santa

949
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,720
Speaker 3: Claus all the way to how your local government works,

950
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,720
Speaker 3: to how the government in your country works, to how

951
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:35,760
Speaker 3: the planet itself functions. I mean, you're literally I think

952
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: what the Internet combined with our curiosities, combined with more

953
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 3: and more people digging in further has created a situation

954
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 3: where we not only like you said, this post truth world.

955
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 3: It's it's not just an individual posting on Facebook something

956
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,080
Speaker 3: that isn't real and then that spreading. It is our minds.

957
00:46:56,120 --> 00:47:00,760
Speaker 3: It is our inability now to know what is true

958
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,640
Speaker 3: because we feel like we've been we've been played so

959
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 3: many times throughout our lives.

960
00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, but in some ways we have Like I'm

961
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 5: not talking about conspiracy theories here. Like, you know, I

962
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 5: work in the media and I've got you know, a

963
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:18,880
Speaker 5: lot of good friends working what people call mainstream media.

964
00:47:18,920 --> 00:47:21,680
Speaker 5: You know, I don't think there's anything wrong with mainstream

965
00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 5: media in terms of individual stories, but as a whole

966
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 5: it is a mess. And trust me, let me tell

967
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 5: you from someone on the inside. I mean, you guys

968
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 5: are as well, but you know what I mean. Like

969
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 5: in the news, the news section of it, like it's

970
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 5: a mess, man, Like it's a very serious mess.

971
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:38,560
Speaker 4: There are things that.

972
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 5: Have happened where you know, I'm talking to commissioning, editors

973
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 5: and producers and they're saying like, oh no, it has

974
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 5: to be like this, And I'm thinking, Jesus Christ, how

975
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 5: unbelievably dishonest of you want to sway it like that.

976
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 5: That's not because they're part of a cabal. It's not

977
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:59,320
Speaker 5: the Jews, it's not the Freemasons or whatever whatever like nonsense.

978
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,560
Speaker 5: People want to say. It's just the way the culture

979
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:05,080
Speaker 5: is now. We're becoming a culture war, and people, without

980
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 5: realizing it, sometimes end up scuring a story because it's

981
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 5: like we have to have this angle. It's manufactured kind of.

982
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 5: It's like a manufactured thought process where it's like, well,

983
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 5: if they're doing it like this, then we have to

984
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 5: do it like that. It's not really you know, sometimes

985
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:25,439
Speaker 5: it is what it is. You don't have to bring

986
00:48:25,480 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 5: this angle on it. That's why I you know, I

987
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,960
Speaker 5: remember when I was first advice News. It was great.

988
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 5: There was no agenda. It's like, what's happened in this

989
00:48:33,280 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 5: and that's it. There was no well, how can we

990
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 5: link this to Trump? How can we It's just this

991
00:48:37,320 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 5: is happening, you know, And I thought that was excellent.

992
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 5: But I will say over the last couple of years,

993
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,239
Speaker 5: I've just seen media in general go very strange like

994
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:47,400
Speaker 5: and it's not just the right wing talking point. It

995
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 5: really isn't to say that, like the news is becoming

996
00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:54,840
Speaker 5: specifically in America, no offense. But like I sometimes sometimes

997
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 5: I watch Fox just just to laugh, and then I'll

998
00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 5: put on like you know, the equivalent or whatever it is,

999
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 5: and they just be like, it's kind of the same thing,

1000
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 5: just from the different sides a lot of the time,

1001
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 5: you know, I do think the right wingers are the worst.

1002
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 5: They're they're the biggest cry babies. Ironically, you know, they're

1003
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 5: telling everybody a snowflake, but the second you deviate from

1004
00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 5: what they want, they can't handle it. But I do

1005
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,840
Speaker 5: think they're both actually doing it. So even when you

1006
00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 5: get to that and you recognize, okay, there's flaws in

1007
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 5: the media, like then it's like you just said, the

1008
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:26,080
Speaker 5: kind of everyone now is not just conspiracy theorists.

1009
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:26,360
Speaker 4: You know.

1010
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:28,880
Speaker 5: Like even my granddad was like, God's sake, can I

1011
00:49:28,960 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 5: just watch you know, he's a very smart guy. I

1012
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,839
Speaker 5: remember while he's like can I just watch something without

1013
00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 5: being told, you know, the implying how.

1014
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:37,319
Speaker 4: You should feel about it.

1015
00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 5: It's like, yeah, like come on, I've got a new

1016
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:45,319
Speaker 5: documentary coming out soon about three D printy guns. Yeah, yeah,

1017
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 5: three D printed guns in Western Europe. And a few

1018
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 5: people message me like, oh, I'm very uncomfortable with Jake,

1019
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 5: like you haven't really like presented it in a way

1020
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,480
Speaker 5: that makes, you know, kind of explains how bad this is.

1021
00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,240
Speaker 5: And you know, I'm not saying I'm pro or anti.

1022
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:01,719
Speaker 5: Doesn't matter, you know, it's like, why do you care?

1023
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 5: This is the information, here's what they're doing. You shouldn't

1024
00:50:05,320 --> 00:50:07,920
Speaker 5: be concerned. I'm not, you know, I'm making you feel good.

1025
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 5: I'm rubbing your belly and telling you what's right and wrong.

1026
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:12,960
Speaker 5: That's not the role of journalism, you know. Even someone

1027
00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 5: replied on the Twitter was like, oh, there's a lot

1028
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 5: of Nazis replying to you here, and I was like, yeah,

1029
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,680
Speaker 5: I hate them, but it's not my problem, you know, Like,

1030
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 5: this is the information, it's not for them. It's not

1031
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,920
Speaker 5: for them. That's kind of how it should be processed.

1032
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:27,960
Speaker 5: And I'm not one of these people that believes in

1033
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 5: complete objectivity, because there is right and wrong, you know.

1034
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:34,560
Speaker 5: But at the same time, you shouldn't seek out your

1035
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 5: news to have your your kind of to be rocked

1036
00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 5: to sleep at night. The world is cruel and the

1037
00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 5: world is nasty, and it's never going to change, and

1038
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 5: I think you should take solace in being aware of

1039
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 5: what's going on, rather than someone telling you why you're

1040
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,080
Speaker 5: scared of that, you know, and I sound like a

1041
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:51,800
Speaker 5: conspiracy theories now.

1042
00:50:52,400 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 3: But.

1043
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: Because the truth of the matter is one great error

1044
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:04,400
Speaker 1: that the US news, right, I would say, like the

1045
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:11,400
Speaker 1: terrestrial radio the broadcast makes is this conviction that Rooney

1046
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: is conviction that all stories can be explained within three

1047
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,720
Speaker 1: to five minutes, which is sadly just not the truth.

1048
00:51:19,880 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 5: You know, almost none can, to be honest, you know

1049
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,960
Speaker 5: what I mean, none that are that important. And that's

1050
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 5: a good point. You brought it there, because that's the

1051
00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:30,799
Speaker 5: kind of the format, right the Internet that ironically enough,

1052
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 5: like the Internet when I remember loving blogs. I used

1053
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 5: to read blogs. I had my own little blog when

1054
00:51:35,320 --> 00:51:38,839
Speaker 5: I first started writing. They're all gone now like the Internet.

1055
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:38,880
Speaker 4: Used to be.

1056
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,640
Speaker 5: I see it, like it used to be wide open,

1057
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 5: and now it's ring fence to social media, like barely

1058
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 5: any blogs and that really do well now. And it's

1059
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:49,920
Speaker 5: like the Internet should have been the place where it

1060
00:51:49,920 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 5: took all that away, right, it took all that three

1061
00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,240
Speaker 5: minute explainer thing away. But now that we have Twitter

1062
00:51:55,360 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 5: and now we have the social media's, it's almost like

1063
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,360
Speaker 5: back to the three minute ex right, like a tweet.

1064
00:52:01,400 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 5: People want to know within two or three tweets what's happening,

1065
00:52:04,800 --> 00:52:08,399
Speaker 5: and if not, they're just like whatever, I'll just make

1066
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:10,280
Speaker 5: up my own mind, or I'll leave it or whatever.

1067
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 5: So unfortunately, I feel like that format is now being

1068
00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 5: manufactured within the social media. I don't believe it's an

1069
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:19,080
Speaker 5: attention span thing like that is. Netflix has proved that

1070
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 5: people will watch something for eight hours at a time

1071
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 5: if they're interested. I just think the interaction and the

1072
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 5: social aspect of it and the rapid fire of it

1073
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 5: is unfortunately, I guess what I'm saying, Like you said

1074
00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:34,360
Speaker 5: that the kind of three minute explain has been recreated

1075
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:36,759
Speaker 5: but into social media, and it's no good, man, it's

1076
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 5: no good.

1077
00:52:37,600 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 2: All right, We're going to take a quick step away

1078
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 2: to hear a word from our sponsors, and then we'll

1079
00:52:41,560 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 2: be back with more from Jake.

1080
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 3: And we're back for more with Jake Hendrahead.

1081
00:52:53,040 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 2: One of the kind of repeating themes that you always

1082
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:58,760
Speaker 2: hear about in like cult type situations is people becoming

1083
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:03,280
Speaker 2: estranged from their family. And with this QAnon thing, seeing

1084
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 2: that a ton you're reading about it, but I've experienced

1085
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,360
Speaker 2: it personally. A really dear friend of mine has essentially

1086
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:14,560
Speaker 2: had to disconnect from our entire family. There's already political differences,

1087
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: but then they start going deep, deep, deep into this

1088
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 2: Q stuff, and it's just like, who are you? We

1089
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,400
Speaker 2: have nothing in common anymore? How do we talk to

1090
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,760
Speaker 2: each other? How can I, you know, give you credit

1091
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 2: for being an empathetic person if you are just you know,

1092
00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:35,960
Speaker 2: spouting off all this stuff. But yet cults typically have

1093
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: like a central leader. And with Q all we have

1094
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:42,239
Speaker 2: is this series of kind of disjointed ideas that's just

1095
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:45,800
Speaker 2: you know, crapped out on the internet. So is qan

1096
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: on a cult? And if it is, is it maybe

1097
00:53:48,239 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 2: like a new kind of cult that we haven't seen before,

1098
00:53:50,640 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 2: like one that's a product of the Internet age, or

1099
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,920
Speaker 2: I don't know, like it seems so culty, but it

1100
00:53:55,920 --> 00:53:58,040
Speaker 2: doesn't follow all the rules. But to follow some of them,

1101
00:53:58,280 --> 00:53:59,919
Speaker 2: is it making new rules for whatever?

1102
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 4: I think? I think you're right there?

1103
00:54:02,280 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, it has like it's it's it's hitting there, you

1104
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 5: hit the airl on the head with like it's new, right,

1105
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 5: it's something else. Maybe in ten years there'll be a

1106
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:11,200
Speaker 5: new word for what it is. But right now we're

1107
00:54:11,239 --> 00:54:12,480
Speaker 5: kind of seeing the genesis of it.

1108
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 4: Right.

1109
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:15,680
Speaker 5: So, you know, for a while I didn't believe. I

1110
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:17,600
Speaker 5: was like, it's not a cult, man, get real. And

1111
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,480
Speaker 5: then Sarah Hyatower, researcher's helping me a lot with the

1112
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:22,960
Speaker 5: Q clearance. She's like, you know, the researcher with me

1113
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,640
Speaker 5: on this, she's always been pushing from kind of day one,

1114
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:27,439
Speaker 5: like this is a cult.

1115
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 4: This is a cult. And she specializes in researching cults.

1116
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 5: And the more I spose to her, the more I

1117
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,080
Speaker 5: look at it, and I was like, yeah, actually, it

1118
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,520
Speaker 5: kind of is just because it doesn't have a compound,

1119
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 5: just because you know, there's no Jim Jones out there

1120
00:54:38,920 --> 00:54:42,120
Speaker 5: in people's faces, doesn't really matter. Like you said, it's

1121
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:44,400
Speaker 5: the new thing, right. People live online now, you know.

1122
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:47,840
Speaker 5: People get their everything, they get their dopamine fixed online.

1123
00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:50,120
Speaker 5: They show the whole world a fake image of themselves

1124
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 5: online to let everybody know that life is good, even

1125
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 5: if it isn't. People shop online, you know, you don't

1126
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 5: even when was the last time you went into a

1127
00:54:56,880 --> 00:54:58,720
Speaker 5: shot to try a coat or me on like size

1128
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 5: large by, you know what I mean.

1129
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:01,840
Speaker 4: It's so crazy, and.

1130
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,919
Speaker 5: It makes sense then that the compound is now online, right,

1131
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:09,360
Speaker 5: the compound whatever or the leader is online. Q is online,

1132
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,880
Speaker 5: and perhaps the compound is the websites that he's on,

1133
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 5: or maybe the compound is the community they've put themselves in,

1134
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:18,319
Speaker 5: because they kind of have, and it's spilled out into

1135
00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:18,839
Speaker 5: the real world.

1136
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 4: We've seen it.

1137
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:21,760
Speaker 5: You know, there's loads of these q and on rallies

1138
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,359
Speaker 5: and there was even a Florida SWAT officer who had

1139
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,520
Speaker 5: a q and on patch when he met Mike Pence

1140
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:30,360
Speaker 5: in twenty eighteen.

1141
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 4: It's out there, you know, it's real world.

1142
00:55:33,040 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 5: There was a guy that built an armored vehicle for

1143
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 5: himself and blocked a bridge because of qan on. He

1144
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 5: had nine hundred rounds and all these weapons. So, yeah,

1145
00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 5: it kind of is a cult, I think. You know,

1146
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 5: it's just like you said, it's different. It's decentralized in

1147
00:55:47,920 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 5: a way because of the you know, they don't have

1148
00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 5: a place where they live or whatever, but they live

1149
00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,320
Speaker 5: online like we all live online now. It's not specific

1150
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 5: to them. It's almost like, how do I explain it?

1151
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 5: That was a secondary thing. We're all living online already,

1152
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:05,560
Speaker 5: and then here's the cult thing. It wasn't like you

1153
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:07,239
Speaker 5: have to live online to be in the cult. We're

1154
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 5: already there. Man, you know, and now it just kind

1155
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,439
Speaker 5: of coalesced in QAnon for them. But I don't think

1156
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 5: that that's particularly specific to them, you know, it just

1157
00:56:19,239 --> 00:56:20,759
Speaker 5: is what I mean, you get weird. I remember I

1158
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:23,280
Speaker 5: was researching a thing I wanted to make a documentary about.

1159
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 5: There's these weird kind of fangirls of school shooters, and

1160
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,239
Speaker 5: I wanted to do a documentary where we go and

1161
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:30,840
Speaker 5: meet them all and like, why do you love the

1162
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 5: shoe shooters?

1163
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 4: Mate?

1164
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,000
Speaker 5: They had a thing where this girl had a pillow

1165
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:37,840
Speaker 5: with the Columbine Killers' faces on them. Right, it's just

1166
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:41,959
Speaker 5: next level, right, horrific, but fascinating at the same time.

1167
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:44,839
Speaker 5: And when you look at it, that is kind of

1168
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 5: a cult like thing in a way because it started

1169
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:48,880
Speaker 5: on the in there and they formed their own community.

1170
00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:51,279
Speaker 5: So my point is, I think we have to re

1171
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:53,480
Speaker 5: look at what is a cult and what isn't. It's

1172
00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 5: it's not your granddad's cult, you know what I mean,

1173
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,040
Speaker 5: It's it's not that anymore, you know, it isn't. You know,

1174
00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:03,520
Speaker 5: I don't think that. I think that's the minority. Now.

1175
00:57:03,520 --> 00:57:04,799
Speaker 4: You know this weird nexium co.

1176
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 5: I know you guys have done stuff on that and

1177
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,640
Speaker 5: like that is much smaller now these days doan online

1178
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:14,680
Speaker 5: kind of cult ish things, and I think it's the

1179
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:15,760
Speaker 5: way forward.

1180
00:57:15,800 --> 00:57:16,439
Speaker 4: In a bad way.

1181
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:18,439
Speaker 5: And I don't mean in a good way like let's

1182
00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 5: do more. I mean like this is how it's going

1183
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:22,680
Speaker 5: to progress. I think online from now.

1184
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: What's interesting there is any community can acquire cult like characteristics, right,

1185
00:57:28,920 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be really, the compound is defined

1186
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:35,240
Speaker 1: by the commonality of experience. And we know that when

1187
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:41,720
Speaker 1: groups aggregate and they coalesce around a specific set of commonalities,

1188
00:57:41,760 --> 00:57:45,000
Speaker 1: they tend to self well. I don't want to sound

1189
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: like some counterintelligence mumbo jumbo, but they do tend to

1190
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: radicalize to a degree. Right, if you have someone casually

1191
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:55,080
Speaker 1: join a K pop for them and I I mean

1192
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:57,000
Speaker 1: to pick out K pop here, but they casually join

1193
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: a K pop for them because they like a song

1194
00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:02,280
Speaker 1: from a band and they stick with it. Then six

1195
00:58:02,320 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 1: months later, study show they'll double down.

1196
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:08,360
Speaker 5: They will come after you on Twitter like angry hornets

1197
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 5: as well. They are so well organized, like god forbid

1198
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 5: they ever become militant, like they will wipe everybody out.

1199
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 5: But no, you're right, like the compound is not the

1200
00:58:18,080 --> 00:58:20,919
Speaker 5: building that you know like Jonestown or whatever. Like let's

1201
00:58:20,920 --> 00:58:23,480
Speaker 5: say Waco, the compound wasn't the house. They didn't just go, oh,

1202
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 5: let's go and live there because we like this house.

1203
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:29,200
Speaker 5: The compound was just just like a part of the building.

1204
00:58:29,280 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 4: Right.

1205
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,960
Speaker 5: But why they're there in the first place is you know,

1206
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,920
Speaker 5: that's the cult, right, And it's like, yeah, just because

1207
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 5: that's not in a physical building, it can still exist

1208
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 5: as a concept, right.

1209
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:41,120
Speaker 4: All right.

1210
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 3: So I know, I think as we're recording this, we're

1211
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:47,240
Speaker 3: three episodes into the podcast. Q clearance, Is that correct?

1212
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:48,040
Speaker 4: Maybe?

1213
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:48,240
Speaker 3: Four?

1214
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:48,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1215
00:58:48,680 --> 00:58:49,760
Speaker 4: Three? Three? Three? You're right?

1216
00:58:49,800 --> 00:58:54,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, so we've certainly got more to learn, at

1217
00:58:54,560 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 3: least from our end as listeners. I wanted to point

1218
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:01,160
Speaker 3: one thing out to you. Your show is on the

1219
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:04,560
Speaker 3: iHeart Radio network, as is ours. You know that Hillary

1220
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,640
Speaker 3: Clinton has a show on the iHeart Radio.

1221
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,400
Speaker 1: Network, right or her body double.

1222
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,840
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm saying, Jake, I think maybe you actually

1223
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:16,480
Speaker 3: have a chance to get Hillary on your show at

1224
00:59:16,520 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 3: some point.

1225
00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:20,440
Speaker 5: Well, I probably not because in some of the promotional

1226
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:24,680
Speaker 5: artwork that my graphic designer made for me, like we

1227
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:25,480
Speaker 5: put Lary.

1228
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 4: Clinton with like lizard eyes on it. So I don't

1229
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:30,320
Speaker 4: think so.

1230
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 2: I got a great sense of humor well.

1231
00:59:36,360 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 4: In the first episode as well.

1232
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:39,560
Speaker 5: I'm like, I'm not Hillary Sport, I'm not a drum

1233
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 5: support like I kind of in the first episode wanted

1234
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 5: to let everybody know this and this and this. But

1235
00:59:44,000 --> 00:59:45,840
Speaker 5: I would love to get Hillary on and be like,

1236
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 5: you know, are you really you? But I don't know

1237
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 5: if I trust myself to not go ridiculous and just

1238
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:55,720
Speaker 5: be like I would probably cancel myself from my heart forever.

1239
00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,160
Speaker 5: But I don't know if I trust myself, But I

1240
00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:01,360
Speaker 5: would love to do that. It would actually be like,

1241
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,240
Speaker 5: do you know what would be interesting? Like jokes aside

1242
01:00:04,400 --> 01:00:06,240
Speaker 5: to kind of she must be aware of it, right,

1243
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:08,800
Speaker 5: I would love to be like, hey, like, how do

1244
01:00:08,840 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 5: you feel look one of the so, what is it

1245
01:00:11,400 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 5: called fizzle drip or something?

1246
01:00:12,800 --> 01:00:13,479
Speaker 4: Fizzle drip.

1247
01:00:13,720 --> 01:00:17,120
Speaker 5: That's a part of the QAnon mythos where man, this

1248
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 5: is dark, but they literally believe there's a video of

1249
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:22,520
Speaker 5: Hillary Clinton cutting a kid's face off and.

1250
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 4: Wearing it like.

1251
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:26,680
Speaker 5: I would love to be like, how do you feel

1252
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:31,120
Speaker 5: about the fact hundreds of thousands of people across the

1253
01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 5: world believe this is real? And one interesting part of

1254
01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 5: this is the screenshot that they will say is from

1255
01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 5: this video, right, it's literally a screenshot of like some

1256
01:00:41,360 --> 01:00:44,000
Speaker 5: Brazilian women. I think they're in like a laundrette, like

1257
01:00:44,000 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 5: a laundromat or something. But then some quan On people

1258
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:50,160
Speaker 5: kind of black bits out of it, redacted bits of

1259
01:00:50,240 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 5: what we had to cover this because that was a

1260
01:00:51,680 --> 01:00:54,080
Speaker 5: dead baby. They put like a red hue on it,

1261
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 5: and it looks kind of sinister. But then when you

1262
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:59,080
Speaker 5: see the real patriot, it's just like two women sat

1263
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:03,280
Speaker 5: there like just TV. You know, yeah, I mean, I

1264
01:01:03,320 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 5: that must be horrible. I mean, I know, you know,

1265
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 5: she's obviously like very like bulletproof in terms of thick

1266
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:10,200
Speaker 5: skin you have to be as a politician. But it

1267
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:13,440
Speaker 5: must be horrible to think, like Jesus Christ, like people

1268
01:01:13,480 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 5: think I do this.

1269
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:19,960
Speaker 4: You know, and then I'd be like, did you do it? Hillary? No?

1270
01:01:23,160 --> 01:01:26,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, right, but but nah, And it must be strange,

1271
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:29,560
Speaker 5: like anyone that's in that kind of universe. I mean,

1272
01:01:29,600 --> 01:01:31,360
Speaker 5: I would hate it. I'm sure they're gonna come up

1273
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:33,240
Speaker 5: with something for me at the end of this. I

1274
01:01:33,280 --> 01:01:35,600
Speaker 5: mean I've actually asked some of them. I've like, I

1275
01:01:35,640 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 5: want you on. I don't believe in deep platforming. I'm

1276
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 5: not really about that. And I've said to some of

1277
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:43,640
Speaker 5: the more rational ones, like, come onto the podcast and

1278
01:01:43,680 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 5: make your case for why it's real and whatever. We'll

1279
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,480
Speaker 5: have an actual discussion. I'm not gonna laugh at you.

1280
01:01:48,560 --> 01:01:50,520
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna tell you're an idiot. We'll just say, like,

1281
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,360
Speaker 5: you say what you think, and then I can say

1282
01:01:52,400 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 5: why I think that's outrageous, and that's it. We'll we'll

1283
01:01:54,760 --> 01:01:57,000
Speaker 5: have a civil conversation. None of them, not one of them,

1284
01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,640
Speaker 5: has agreed or even replied. And I know they've seen

1285
01:01:59,640 --> 01:02:01,040
Speaker 5: it because I know these are the people that I've

1286
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:03,760
Speaker 5: already conversed with before. None of them want to do that.

1287
01:02:04,040 --> 01:02:05,680
Speaker 5: Maybe they think that it's a trap.

1288
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:06,280
Speaker 4: I don't know.

1289
01:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,600
Speaker 5: You know, I can't really I can't really say, but

1290
01:02:09,120 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 5: I think it's important to do that. And you know,

1291
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 5: it's a good point you say about Hillary, like it

1292
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 5: affects people in different ways, you know, Like I mean,

1293
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 5: her kids must know about it. They must be online

1294
01:02:19,040 --> 01:02:22,160
Speaker 5: all the time, you know, like everybody's kids are, must

1295
01:02:22,200 --> 01:02:26,240
Speaker 5: be weird, must be weird. I'll ask her, who see Hillary?

1296
01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:29,040
Speaker 5: If you hear this, don't worry about the lizard eyes, Like,

1297
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:31,640
Speaker 5: let's go so the.

1298
01:02:31,720 --> 01:02:37,000
Speaker 1: Artwork is negotiable. So one question that we know everybody

1299
01:02:37,120 --> 01:02:41,320
Speaker 1: is asking that you may not be able to answer, Jake,

1300
01:02:41,480 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: Yet it's it's something we have to bring up out

1301
01:02:44,760 --> 01:02:48,200
Speaker 1: of all the theories, the big, the big badger in

1302
01:02:48,240 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: the room here is are there any compelling leads on

1303
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: the identity or identities of the so called Q? And

1304
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: by like compelling, we're talking about the gamut of things, right, like, Matt,

1305
01:03:01,320 --> 01:03:03,800
Speaker 1: you have a you have a suspect?

1306
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:04,040
Speaker 4: Right.

1307
01:03:04,520 --> 01:03:07,960
Speaker 3: It sounds super silly in my head right now, but

1308
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 3: I have seen a lot of people online questioning whether

1309
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:16,760
Speaker 3: or not Q actually is Donald Trump the president. Is

1310
01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:17,800
Speaker 3: that ridiculous?

1311
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: Then why he's online a lot?

1312
01:03:19,800 --> 01:03:22,080
Speaker 5: I mean, I mean he's on Twitter a lot. Maybe

1313
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,240
Speaker 5: he's on four Channel a lot as well. So actually,

1314
01:03:25,360 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 5: what's even more fun is so Q and ons believe

1315
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,720
Speaker 5: Q plus is Trump. So there's there's Q and there's

1316
01:03:31,840 --> 01:03:34,800
Speaker 5: Q plus, which is like the extended team, right, and

1317
01:03:34,840 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 5: they believe Q plus is Trump because Trump, you know,

1318
01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:40,080
Speaker 5: he does this thing where he points people out in

1319
01:03:40,120 --> 01:03:42,320
Speaker 5: the crowd when he's wondering around and that, and he

1320
01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:43,160
Speaker 5: must have done like.

1321
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:45,800
Speaker 4: Just point it at someone basically, and they're like.

1322
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:49,120
Speaker 5: Look, he's doing a cute plus I mean, to be honest,

1323
01:03:49,280 --> 01:03:51,800
Speaker 5: actually he does do like a weird thing, but he's

1324
01:03:51,840 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 5: just going like that guy there, you know what I mean,

1325
01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 5: as anybody does. But no, I would love if you know,

1326
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:01,160
Speaker 5: like I know it's sounds bad, but I would love

1327
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:04,120
Speaker 5: if qing On was real and if we were all wrong,

1328
01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 5: it would just be the funniest end to twenty twenty, right,

1329
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:09,840
Speaker 5: it would just incredible.

1330
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:14,960
Speaker 2: Really is capable of this much subtext. Like he's a

1331
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:18,560
Speaker 2: pretty surfacey guy, you know when you think about his politics,

1332
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:20,439
Speaker 2: like he's kind of what you see is what you get.

1333
01:04:20,680 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 2: That's always the impression that.

1334
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:24,120
Speaker 4: It would just be great though, right, Like.

1335
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:30,080
Speaker 5: I mean, that's all you like me like laughing my

1336
01:04:30,120 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 5: head off as the stormtroopers kick off my door and

1337
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 5: send me to prison for like believing.

1338
01:04:35,360 --> 01:04:38,600
Speaker 3: Yeah you know what I mean, but I speaking of Jake.

1339
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,160
Speaker 3: I don't want to alarm you, but your your door

1340
01:04:41,280 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 3: that is directly behind the.

1341
01:04:42,360 --> 01:04:47,160
Speaker 2: Door, just open up seriously, Okay, Yeah, I wasn't gonna

1342
01:04:47,200 --> 01:04:47,720
Speaker 2: say anything.

1343
01:04:49,320 --> 01:04:50,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, Hilary, is that you?

1344
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:54,080
Speaker 5: But like, na, man, it's I mean, no, there's nothing,

1345
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 5: but obviously there's nothing, but like it's one of these

1346
01:04:56,720 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 5: ones where like I sometimes I do actually try and

1347
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 5: put my head into the mind of the QAnon person.

1348
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:04,520
Speaker 5: And I look back to when I was like thirteen,

1349
01:05:04,600 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 5: and I was like nine to eleven is an inside job,

1350
01:05:07,080 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 5: and like I loved all that and was like I

1351
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 5: was like the conspiracy guy before anyone was. I was

1352
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 5: trying to tell my friends and they were like what what,

1353
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:16,920
Speaker 5: shut up, Jake, like go away, like you're crazy. I mean,

1354
01:05:16,960 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 5: I probably had like a year of that before I

1355
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:21,040
Speaker 5: kind of started reading real books and was like, oh what.

1356
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:24,280
Speaker 5: But you know, I try and put myself into like

1357
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 5: my younger self and think like, oh well, and I

1358
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:31,720
Speaker 5: can I can see the coincidences which are so unbelievably small,

1359
01:05:32,040 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 5: but when they're wrapped up in it, they need anything

1360
01:05:34,600 --> 01:05:36,600
Speaker 5: to make this real. So if you just give them

1361
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,320
Speaker 5: a crumb, it's like they'll take that. That's a whole

1362
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,560
Speaker 5: cake for them, you know. So there are very few

1363
01:05:42,640 --> 01:05:44,520
Speaker 5: and far between, you know, Like I think one was

1364
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,040
Speaker 5: like a typo Trump did and they were like, ha,

1365
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:52,320
Speaker 5: drop one two whatever. QQ also used the semi colon.

1366
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 5: There we know it's him, you know, so there is

1367
01:05:55,480 --> 01:05:59,520
Speaker 5: that's right right?

1368
01:06:00,040 --> 01:06:06,240
Speaker 4: Oh God, that was so insufferable. But no, there's no question.

1369
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:08,120
Speaker 4: I don't think it's Trump.

1370
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:12,439
Speaker 1: No, okay, well, well we'll look forward to what we'll

1371
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:15,280
Speaker 1: only be able to describe as classic twenty twenty if

1372
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:20,160
Speaker 1: it does end up being the current president. At this point,

1373
01:06:20,160 --> 01:06:22,840
Speaker 1: we do want to say, as we pointed out that

1374
01:06:23,320 --> 01:06:27,880
Speaker 1: this show is ongoing, Q clearance is ongoing, there are

1375
01:06:28,080 --> 01:06:31,880
Speaker 1: things that Jake, you cannot reveal to us yet right

1376
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: as as we're in media arrests here. But for everyone

1377
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:42,560
Speaker 1: who is waiting to hear the conclusion of this podcast,

1378
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:45,680
Speaker 1: we don't want to let the opportunity pass without asking

1379
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:49,800
Speaker 1: just a couple more questions about popular front So this

1380
01:06:49,920 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 1: is this is independent, this is something. No, it's now,

1381
01:06:53,520 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: it's across multiple platforms. It started twenty eighteen as originally

1382
01:06:57,720 --> 01:07:04,200
Speaker 1: as a podcasts and you've interviewed some fascinating people also recently,

1383
01:07:04,400 --> 01:07:07,760
Speaker 1: like you talked about I've in the troll regarding three

1384
01:07:07,840 --> 01:07:12,600
Speaker 1: D printed firearms. You talked about something we explore pretty often,

1385
01:07:13,120 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: the world of drone warfare. I think that's one of

1386
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:16,960
Speaker 1: the most recent episodes.

1387
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:17,400
Speaker 3: It is.

1388
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:23,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, with all this in mind, what God is so depressing?

1389
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:27,840
Speaker 1: But what trends do you see for a conflict in

1390
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 1: the future.

1391
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:29,720
Speaker 2: What do you wish more.

1392
01:07:29,560 --> 01:07:33,280
Speaker 1: Audiences, maybe in the bubble of the West, understood about

1393
01:07:33,320 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 1: what's happening out there.

1394
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,400
Speaker 4: Mm, yeah, it is. Well it's not depressing.

1395
01:07:38,880 --> 01:07:42,320
Speaker 5: It is depressing, but I think it's less depressing to

1396
01:07:42,360 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 5: be aware of it, right, It's better to be like,

1397
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,520
Speaker 5: let's be aware of it rather than bury our heads.

1398
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 5: So I think the trends unfortunately going forward. I see

1399
01:07:50,920 --> 01:07:54,600
Speaker 5: fascism making like quite a large leap. And I don't

1400
01:07:54,600 --> 01:07:57,320
Speaker 5: mean anything I don't like is fascism. I mean like

1401
01:07:57,440 --> 01:08:02,040
Speaker 5: real actual like fascism within governments, fascism within like militant groups,

1402
01:08:02,320 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 5: you know, getting powerful like that fascist militant groups, and

1403
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 5: that is a real worry man. Like in Europe as well,

1404
01:08:08,000 --> 01:08:10,200
Speaker 5: we're seeing a lot of that. I think this whole,

1405
01:08:10,240 --> 01:08:13,640
Speaker 5: like I don't know, populism is probably not the right word,

1406
01:08:13,680 --> 01:08:16,560
Speaker 5: but I'll use that the whole, Like right wing populism

1407
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:19,439
Speaker 5: is kind of I think that's here to stay for

1408
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:22,240
Speaker 5: at least the next five years. Perhaps I'm talking about

1409
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:25,400
Speaker 5: Ryan in Europe, so that's us. But then in terms

1410
01:08:25,479 --> 01:08:27,679
Speaker 5: of like the wars and the conflicts going on.

1411
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:28,599
Speaker 4: It's just like.

1412
01:08:30,400 --> 01:08:33,800
Speaker 5: It's at the brink now where I think a lot

1413
01:08:33,840 --> 01:08:36,000
Speaker 5: is going to start happening. And I don't want to

1414
01:08:36,040 --> 01:08:38,599
Speaker 5: tie it to Trump or anything like that, but I

1415
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:41,240
Speaker 5: do think there's been a shift and a lot of

1416
01:08:41,280 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 5: authoritarian governments can kind of be like we can get

1417
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:46,760
Speaker 5: away with more now. Now I'm not arguing that like,

1418
01:08:46,800 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 5: oh yeah, let's have more American interventions.

1419
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:49,360
Speaker 4: Certainly not.

1420
01:08:49,479 --> 01:08:51,400
Speaker 5: I mean that's why Iraq is the way it is,

1421
01:08:51,520 --> 01:08:54,559
Speaker 5: right and many other places. But there is a thing

1422
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:58,559
Speaker 5: of like people, there's always going to be someone bully

1423
01:08:58,600 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 5: the rest of the world, right, and I just think

1424
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:03,639
Speaker 5: the bullies are changing now. I think you know China,

1425
01:09:03,680 --> 01:09:07,920
Speaker 5: which you know, it's an absolute fact that they're like

1426
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:10,439
Speaker 5: like a techno dictatorship, you know, like look at the

1427
01:09:10,439 --> 01:09:13,760
Speaker 5: Wigas being put into concentration camps. It's terrific just for

1428
01:09:13,840 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 5: being a Muslim, you know. So that the kind of

1429
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:20,080
Speaker 5: indifference from the world to that, it's a real eye

1430
01:09:20,120 --> 01:09:22,160
Speaker 5: opener for me. I was like, Wow, what about what

1431
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 5: happened to never again? You know what I mean, there's

1432
01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:29,680
Speaker 5: like evidence, there's proof, and it's just like everyone's just

1433
01:09:29,800 --> 01:09:31,040
Speaker 5: like it just happens.

1434
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 4: But then it's like, what do you want to do.

1435
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:34,200
Speaker 4: What are we going to do in vade China?

1436
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 5: Like no, Like I don't know what the answer is, man,

1437
01:09:38,840 --> 01:09:40,439
Speaker 5: but I just see it looking bad.

1438
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:40,760
Speaker 4: You know.

1439
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:43,559
Speaker 5: I think this thing with Armenia and Azerbaijan is really

1440
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:47,599
Speaker 5: a problem, and I think it's one of these wars

1441
01:09:47,680 --> 01:09:52,840
Speaker 5: where in my opinion, it shows that organizations like the

1442
01:09:52,960 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 5: UN and NATO and the EU, they're not moral organizations.

1443
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,439
Speaker 5: They might act like they are, but they don't have

1444
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:02,680
Speaker 5: a moral soul. They're just an organization, you know. And

1445
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,559
Speaker 5: I think when you see these conflicts, it shows that

1446
01:10:05,720 --> 01:10:09,480
Speaker 5: now when it's not as source or as spicy as Syria,

1447
01:10:09,560 --> 01:10:11,640
Speaker 5: when you look at a place like Armenia and Azerbaijan,

1448
01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,120
Speaker 5: it's just horrific war going on there. And there's there's

1449
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 5: already been war crimes, beheadings, a maternity hospital was targeted

1450
01:10:18,120 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 5: today in Armenia, and it's it's like the world is

1451
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:23,519
Speaker 5: kind of like aloof twit and the UN is kind

1452
01:10:23,520 --> 01:10:26,880
Speaker 5: of like we're deeply concerned. Again, you know, there's things

1453
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:28,920
Speaker 5: they can do, you know, like one of their native

1454
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:32,799
Speaker 5: you know, Turkey is is supplying in some cases Jahadis

1455
01:10:32,880 --> 01:10:36,720
Speaker 5: militants to Azerbaijan to fight for you know, for Azerbaijan,

1456
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 5: and it's like when NATO just goes like, you know.

1457
01:10:40,240 --> 01:10:42,160
Speaker 4: Like what can you do?

1458
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:44,760
Speaker 5: Then, you know, like one of the most powerful organizations,

1459
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 5: where is there to go? So, I mean, I know

1460
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 5: it sounds a bit nihilistic in it, but I think

1461
01:10:49,160 --> 01:10:52,040
Speaker 5: what is actually happening is perhaps like a recalibration of

1462
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 5: where the powers are and where people's perceptions of what

1463
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:59,960
Speaker 5: those powers do. You know, like genocide can happen now,

1464
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 5: and the idea that the West is going to step

1465
01:11:02,360 --> 01:11:05,960
Speaker 5: in is kind of laughable. I think, you know, it's

1466
01:11:06,000 --> 01:11:10,799
Speaker 5: not gonna happen. And I'm not saying it's gonna sound callous,

1467
01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:12,639
Speaker 5: I don't. I'm not saying the West should step in

1468
01:11:13,000 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 5: because I'm not like pro intervention, but some things are

1469
01:11:15,800 --> 01:11:18,080
Speaker 5: just right and wrong, you know, like if you have

1470
01:11:18,160 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 5: the power to stop people being put into concentration camp,

1471
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:23,200
Speaker 5: something should be done, you know what I mean. Like,

1472
01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 5: if NATO forces are committing war crimes on camera, the

1473
01:11:27,040 --> 01:11:30,120
Speaker 5: least NATO can do is say we've seen that and

1474
01:11:30,160 --> 01:11:32,599
Speaker 5: it's bad. I mean there are instances, trust me, man,

1475
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:34,760
Speaker 5: When I was in Southeast Turkey where there were war

1476
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 5: crimes happening NATO's second largest army was committing them, in

1477
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:41,559
Speaker 5: some cases filming them and recording them themselves and putting

1478
01:11:41,560 --> 01:11:43,640
Speaker 5: them out there and going, look what we did, and

1479
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:45,880
Speaker 5: just no one said anything, you know, And it's kind

1480
01:11:45,880 --> 01:11:48,800
Speaker 5: of like, where do you go from there? I don't know, honestly, man,

1481
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:50,799
Speaker 5: I guess my answer is I don't have the full answer.

1482
01:11:50,840 --> 01:11:53,519
Speaker 5: And it sounds grim and it sounds miserable. But one

1483
01:11:53,520 --> 01:11:56,600
Speaker 5: thing I will say that's good is always remember the

1484
01:11:56,640 --> 01:11:59,880
Speaker 5: people living there, man, and mostly not bad people, like

1485
01:12:00,439 --> 01:12:02,920
Speaker 5: the resilience you will see specifically in the Middle East,

1486
01:12:02,960 --> 01:12:04,880
Speaker 5: like I've seen on the wall conditions. I'm like, how

1487
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 5: are you living like this? How are you having a laugh?

1488
01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,120
Speaker 5: How are you functioning so well? So I think the

1489
01:12:10,160 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 5: one thing we can take from it is like people

1490
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:13,639
Speaker 5: will just keep living, you know what I mean, even

1491
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,400
Speaker 5: when they're getting killed, they will keep living. And that's

1492
01:12:16,400 --> 01:12:19,040
Speaker 5: the only kind of solace I take from it. It's

1493
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:22,200
Speaker 5: like the people won't be crushed no matter what I think,

1494
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,600
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. And by the people, I

1495
01:12:24,640 --> 01:12:27,559
Speaker 5: don't mean any political whatever. I just mean, you know,

1496
01:12:27,800 --> 01:12:30,720
Speaker 5: just people, your average people that are caught up in this.

1497
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,599
Speaker 5: They won't be crushed fully ever, so that's the only

1498
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:38,519
Speaker 5: good thing. But I don't know what else to tell you, man, Like,

1499
01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:42,680
Speaker 5: it's pretty grim and unfortunately, like you know, there's a

1500
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:45,360
Speaker 5: lot of work for me to look through and things

1501
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 5: to do with the popular front, because you know, we

1502
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:50,840
Speaker 5: do cover all of these bases. If there's a class,

1503
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:53,479
Speaker 5: if there's a conflict happening, we will look into it.

1504
01:12:53,760 --> 01:12:55,760
Speaker 5: And honestly, in the last year, I've just been like

1505
01:12:55,960 --> 01:12:58,680
Speaker 5: christ I don't even know what to talk about now, Like,

1506
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 5: it's just I've got like a list on my wall

1507
01:13:00,479 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 5: and it's just adding up every day. So yeah, it's

1508
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:05,240
Speaker 5: it's it's grim, it's grim.

1509
01:13:05,439 --> 01:13:08,439
Speaker 3: Well, what I would say is any anytime you want

1510
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:11,200
Speaker 3: to just come on this show and talk about any

1511
01:13:11,280 --> 01:13:13,920
Speaker 3: one specific place or a specific thing, we would be

1512
01:13:14,000 --> 01:13:16,680
Speaker 3: more than happy to have you and you know, do

1513
01:13:16,800 --> 01:13:18,240
Speaker 3: some research with you on something.

1514
01:13:18,400 --> 01:13:20,479
Speaker 5: I love that, man Like, definitely appreciate that. Like I

1515
01:13:20,479 --> 01:13:22,920
Speaker 5: would definitely take you up on that. There's there's there's

1516
01:13:22,960 --> 01:13:25,040
Speaker 5: so many do you know what's interesting you you guys

1517
01:13:25,080 --> 01:13:27,599
Speaker 5: can maybe look at like conspiracies in the Middle East.

1518
01:13:27,920 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 5: I have so many friends in the Middle East because

1519
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:33,120
Speaker 5: of my work. Everyone loves a conspiracy even down to

1520
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 5: like there's a conspiracy with the cafe, you know what

1521
01:13:36,080 --> 01:13:38,640
Speaker 5: I mean, he's like he's trying to he's getting the

1522
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,080
Speaker 5: Israelis are sending him that homus or whatever.

1523
01:13:41,200 --> 01:13:43,280
Speaker 4: You know what I mean. There's a ways of conspiracy.

1524
01:13:43,600 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 4: It's good fun. Actually, we did a.

1525
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 1: Piece on We did a piece on the genre of

1526
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 1: animals as spies, which is a wildly popular genre of

1527
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 1: its own in the Middle East.

1528
01:13:55,280 --> 01:13:58,559
Speaker 5: I heard like the there's also like the sharks and

1529
01:13:58,560 --> 01:14:00,240
Speaker 5: stuff with lasers and stuff as.

1530
01:14:00,120 --> 01:14:03,439
Speaker 1: Well, right exactly, And then you know, what can you

1531
01:14:03,520 --> 01:14:06,320
Speaker 1: what can you say to that? Because intelligence agencies in

1532
01:14:06,360 --> 01:14:09,439
Speaker 1: the past did have that bright idea where someone's like,

1533
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:11,479
Speaker 1: I don't know, man, what can we put in a cab?

1534
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:14,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, things like that though I always you know, like

1535
01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,120
Speaker 5: there's a great book John Ronson did, The Men who

1536
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:19,840
Speaker 5: Stare at Goats, And like I try and explain to people,

1537
01:14:19,880 --> 01:14:23,760
Speaker 5: that's not like a whole huge conspiracy. It's one guy

1538
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:27,080
Speaker 5: with a dumb idea who didn't have enough oversight, and

1539
01:14:27,160 --> 01:14:30,080
Speaker 5: someone went, yeah, let let Jack do that whatever, get

1540
01:14:30,120 --> 01:14:31,840
Speaker 5: him out of my hair, and before you know it,

1541
01:14:31,920 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 5: he's got like a spying looking through walls killing goats

1542
01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:38,160
Speaker 5: thing going on, and like often the lead like the

1543
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:41,920
Speaker 5: biggest conspiracies that oh they're real. Often it's like it

1544
01:14:41,960 --> 01:14:45,240
Speaker 5: wasn't that insidious. It was just some idiot who like

1545
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,320
Speaker 5: bypassed his middle manager somehow, you know, and he had

1546
01:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 5: like a budget. And they're the most fun ones. Yeah,

1547
01:14:51,360 --> 01:14:54,000
Speaker 5: So I don't know, it's it's there's a lot of

1548
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:56,479
Speaker 5: them out there. Like, not all conspiracies are as like

1549
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:00,280
Speaker 5: dark as qan on, but they're the ones I enjoy. Like,

1550
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:03,320
Speaker 5: that's why I love Cryptids. You know, Mothman's never gonna

1551
01:15:03,360 --> 01:15:03,600
Speaker 5: hurt me.

1552
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,160
Speaker 3: Man, Well, I don't know.

1553
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 2: That statue of him and West Virginia it looks like

1554
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 2: a he Man action figure. He's got like these crazy

1555
01:15:14,600 --> 01:15:20,280
Speaker 2: sculpted abs and like buns of steel. Literally, yes, it's nuts.

1556
01:15:20,360 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: I'll say it. H The Mothman statue is thick with

1557
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:28,040
Speaker 1: two c's. I mean it's like, yeah, those cheeks are clapping.

1558
01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:29,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, good for him.

1559
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:36,080
Speaker 1: So before we continue objectifying Mothman, yes, shout out shout

1560
01:15:36,080 --> 01:15:39,559
Speaker 1: out to Cryptids and Jake, thank you so much for

1561
01:15:39,640 --> 01:15:42,759
Speaker 1: being so generous with your time today. As we said,

1562
01:15:43,000 --> 01:15:47,320
Speaker 1: like Popular Front, if you're ever interested in the geopolitical

1563
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 1: topics we've covered on this show in the past. Then

1564
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:53,840
Speaker 1: do please check out Popular Front. It's a long running show.

1565
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:58,719
Speaker 1: I can't say enough good about it personally, and it's

1566
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:02,360
Speaker 1: worth your time checking out, especially as you are waiting

1567
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,840
Speaker 1: for the conclusion of Q Clearance and listening along to

1568
01:16:06,920 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 1: that in the meantime, Jake, where can people learn more

1569
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:11,719
Speaker 1: about your work in general?

1570
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:14,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, man, thanks very much. By the way, I'm glad

1571
01:16:14,880 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 5: you guys listen. It's I'm like a fanboy for this podcast, man,

1572
01:16:17,960 --> 01:16:19,240
Speaker 5: So it's so cool that you guys are like, oh,

1573
01:16:19,320 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 5: I listened to Popular Front, so it's great for me.

1574
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:24,760
Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean, if people check out, you can

1575
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:28,200
Speaker 5: go on the website. It's Popularfront dot co. Like I

1576
01:16:28,320 --> 01:16:30,639
Speaker 5: joke that it's counteroffensive, but I just no one would

1577
01:16:30,640 --> 01:16:33,720
Speaker 5: sell me the dot com. But yeah, or like you know,

1578
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:36,040
Speaker 5: you can check me on Twitter. I'm always on there,

1579
01:16:36,080 --> 01:16:40,120
Speaker 5: like moaning about stuff. That's like at Jake Underscore Hanrahan

1580
01:16:40,520 --> 01:16:43,600
Speaker 5: h A n I A h A And yeah, man, just.

1581
01:16:43,600 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 4: Give me a shout there. I like to talk to

1582
01:16:45,240 --> 01:16:45,759
Speaker 4: cool people.

1583
01:16:46,040 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 3: I would just recommend YouTube, dot com slash popular Front.

1584
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 4: That's yes, that's where.

1585
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,280
Speaker 3: I would go if you if you're listening to this

1586
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 3: and you were a fan of Vice News early on

1587
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,879
Speaker 3: when that stuff was happening, go check out this YouTube

1588
01:17:00,920 --> 01:17:04,599
Speaker 3: site and you will see similar videos, but done outside

1589
01:17:04,600 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 3: of that organization by Jake and people who are working

1590
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:08,200
Speaker 3: with Jake.

1591
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:11,120
Speaker 4: It's it's fantastic stuff. I always forget to plug the YouTube.

1592
01:17:11,160 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 5: I don't know why, Like, yeah, we do podcasts, we

1593
01:17:13,560 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 5: do you know, documentaries, we do articles. We had a

1594
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:19,519
Speaker 5: magazine out yeah yeah, so definitely YouTube dot com, slash

1595
01:17:19,560 --> 01:17:22,880
Speaker 5: popular Front. We've got loads of documentaries, all filming on

1596
01:17:22,920 --> 01:17:25,759
Speaker 5: the ground, you know, shoulder to shoulder with whoever's fighting

1597
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:26,719
Speaker 5: or clashing or whatever.

1598
01:17:26,800 --> 01:17:30,400
Speaker 3: So definitely check that out and don't forget the podcast. Well,

1599
01:17:30,560 --> 01:17:32,439
Speaker 3: tell us a little bit more just about where to

1600
01:17:32,479 --> 01:17:35,760
Speaker 3: find that Jake. Ohqu Clearance, Yes, sir, sorry, yeah, yeah,

1601
01:17:35,760 --> 01:17:36,760
Speaker 3: I should have mentioned that one.

1602
01:17:36,800 --> 01:17:38,479
Speaker 4: iHeart. Yeah.

1603
01:17:38,640 --> 01:17:41,880
Speaker 5: If you just search Q Clearance on any podcast app,

1604
01:17:41,880 --> 01:17:43,720
Speaker 5: you'll find it. It will be the top one. It's got

1605
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:47,559
Speaker 5: like this cool green pyramid with an eye like art

1606
01:17:47,560 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 5: for it. Yeah, man, just check that out. Q Clearance.

1607
01:17:50,160 --> 01:17:52,200
Speaker 5: It's it's all on the all of the apps.

1608
01:17:52,280 --> 01:17:52,559
Speaker 4: Is there.

1609
01:17:53,320 --> 01:17:57,280
Speaker 1: What a wild ride? We hope that we as we said,

1610
01:17:57,280 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: we hope that you have enjoyed today conversation and we

1611
01:18:01,600 --> 01:18:04,200
Speaker 1: want to hear what you have to say about the

1612
01:18:04,240 --> 01:18:07,960
Speaker 1: many topics we discussed with Jake in today's interview. You

1613
01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:11,600
Speaker 1: can find us online. We are on Facebook, We're on Instagram,

1614
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:16,280
Speaker 1: We're on the other one, Twitter, We're on that one too.

1615
01:18:16,760 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 1: We'd like to recommend our Facebook page. Here's where it

1616
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:22,479
Speaker 1: gets crazy, where you can meet the best part of

1617
01:18:22,479 --> 01:18:24,360
Speaker 1: this show, your fellow listeners.

1618
01:18:24,680 --> 01:18:26,639
Speaker 3: Yes, we also want to mention that you can call

1619
01:18:26,720 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 3: us if you wish. Our number is one eight three

1620
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:33,719
Speaker 3: three std WYTK. As soon as you hear Ben talking

1621
01:18:33,840 --> 01:18:36,519
Speaker 3: and all the stuff going on that you usually would

1622
01:18:36,520 --> 01:18:38,559
Speaker 3: here with stuff they don't want you to know, you're

1623
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,759
Speaker 3: gonna know you're in the right place. Leave a message

1624
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,120
Speaker 3: let us know if we can use your name, your

1625
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:48,120
Speaker 3: likeness and everything on our show, because we use those

1626
01:18:48,240 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 3: voicemails for the listener mail segments. Just please let us

1627
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,439
Speaker 3: know in that call if we can do that, and

1628
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:55,720
Speaker 3: if you would.

1629
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:57,559
Speaker 2: Rather get in touch with us, you know more of

1630
01:18:57,600 --> 01:19:00,120
Speaker 2: an old fashioned kind of way, you can do that

1631
01:19:00,560 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 2: as well by sending us an email.

1632
01:19:02,600 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1633
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:26,920
Speaker 3: Stuff They Don't Want You to Know is a production

1634
01:19:27,040 --> 01:19:31,559
Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1635
01:19:31,640 --> 01:19:34,720
Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.