1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:00,840 Speaker 1: Ola. 2 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 2: It's Maria no Josa of Latino USA, and today we 3 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 2: want to talk about Chile. The country in South America 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 2: has been going through some pretty big political changes recently. 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: In December, Gabriel Borick, who is only thirty five years 6 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 2: old and a former leader of Chile's student movement, was 7 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 2: elected president, making him the country's youngest president ever. The 8 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 2: Associated Press declared Bodique a leftist millennial, but the impacts 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:34,240 Speaker 2: of his historic election go well beyond that. After two 10 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: years of protests and social upheaval, Chile is now in 11 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,000 Speaker 2: the process of drafting a new constitution. It will replace 12 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:47,000 Speaker 2: the one established during the dictatorship of Augusto Pinoche. One 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty five representatives are in charge of drafting 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: Chile's new founding document, and they look quite different than 15 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: anything else the world has seen before. There is an 16 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 2: equal number of men and women in the group, as 17 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: well as seventeen representatives of indigenous nations. Recently, our Futuro 18 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: media podcast Latino Rebels Radio discussed the recent presidential election 19 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: in Chile and what Worrig's victory means to the country 20 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: and to the Americas. So we wanted to share this 21 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 2: conversation with our Latino USA listeners as well. Host Jula 22 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 2: welcomes Chilean historian and journalist Gamila Vergara to the show. 23 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 2: So listen and enjoy. 24 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:56,279 Speaker 3: Latino Rebels Radio. Latino Rebels Radio. J here, so listen. 25 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 3: Some big news happened out of Chile right before Christmas, 26 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 3: and you know, we close the office because of the holidays, 27 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: and then I'm a gron happened and I still wanted 28 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 3: to talk about this historic moment in Chile. And still 29 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,799 Speaker 3: it's within a month, so we're good. It's still within 30 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 3: a window frame. And so this is what we're going. 31 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: To talk about it. So I have this fabulous guest. 32 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: From London who has already been on the show last 33 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 3: year to talk about Chile, and we're just going to 34 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: bring our fabulous guests from London on right now. So, 35 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 3: fabulous guests from London, welcome back to Latino Rebels Radio. 36 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: Can you say who you are and what you do? 37 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 4: Hi, Julio. Yes, my name is Camille Regada. I'm a journalist, 38 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 4: historian and a political scientist political theorist working on a 39 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 4: Plebeian rights and philosophy in the University of Cambridge, writing 40 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 4: a book actually on it. 41 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: Man, you're just yeah, I love it. 42 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,080 Speaker 3: University of Cambridge very very very British, very UK. So 43 00:02:56,240 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 3: listen for those you know, there are probably some people 44 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 3: who are listening to this that probably don't know what 45 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 3: happened on December nineteenth in Chile. I mean around December nineteenth. Sorry, 46 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 3: I don't think that was the exact day, but it 47 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 3: was the Sunday around then. Tell us, just in a nutshell, 48 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,079 Speaker 3: what has happened in Chile in the previous month? 49 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 4: Yes, Huler, you were correct. December nineteenth was thee oh. 50 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: Good, you say. I just wanted to make sure. 51 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 3: As a journalist, I'm like yes, because sometimes we report 52 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 3: a story and I'm like, oh wait, did we report 53 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 3: that the next day? 54 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: So let me just make sure. So thank you? Yes, 55 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: all right, So I was right, all right, I was correct. 56 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: So continue, I think. 57 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 4: To understand that what happened that day, we need to 58 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 4: understand what happened before, because basically this was a two 59 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 4: round presidential election, so as we know also in the US, 60 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 4: you know, the first round also is very definitive in 61 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,440 Speaker 4: a way. We need to know who the candidates are, 62 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 4: who is going to make it to the second round 63 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 4: here in America is not so much because we have 64 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 4: a two party system. In Chile, there were several candidates 65 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 4: and one of the candidates was a neo fascist but 66 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 4: very open Pinochet apologists. Was this guy. 67 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 3: They're still out there, Pinochet apologists are still there. They're 68 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 3: probably in their prime. This is this is exactly. So 69 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: his name was Jose Antonio Cast, right, Yes. 70 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 4: So he is, you know, the son of a Nazi 71 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 4: soldier that came to Chile with fake Red Cross papers, Okay, 72 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 4: and he went he immigrated to Chile, did some business. 73 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 4: One of his sons, Miguel cast worked for the dictatorship 74 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 4: and he was like the central banker and the Minister 75 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 4: of Labor and you know, a very important figure in 76 00:04:36,880 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 4: the dictatorship. And this guy, Jos Antonio, is the brother 77 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,160 Speaker 4: of Emiel and he is a lawyer and he has 78 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 4: been forever in a party that is called UDI, the 79 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 4: Unidad Democrata Independiente Unity Independence, Unity for democracy and has 80 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 4: nothing for democracy because basically it was created in nineteen 81 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 4: eighty three, this party in the middle of the dictatorship 82 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,359 Speaker 4: as a vehicle for the kind of Pinochet ideas to 83 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 4: move into democracy. So this guy was a deputy in 84 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 4: a lower chamber of this party for like many years, 85 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 4: and then in twenty sixteen he exited this party because 86 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 4: he was upset that the basically the right wingers have 87 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 4: become too liberal and he would a new party, wait, 88 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 4: a new party that he named Partido Republican or the 89 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 4: Republican Party. He founded this party in twenty nineteen, but 90 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 4: interestingly only after he met with this Alliance for a 91 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 4: Conservative Thought inaugurated by Alan Sears in the US, which 92 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 4: is basically the Global Alliance in Defense of Freedom that 93 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:48,040 Speaker 4: brings together all the conservative ideology that goes against gender, 94 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 4: what they call gender ideology. The other there excess gay 95 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 4: people out there, basically the set. So there's an alliance 96 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 4: between the far right and the evangelical community, which both 97 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 4: of them want basically to preserve the traditional family. So 98 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,120 Speaker 4: this new party, he was the presidential candidate of that party, 99 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 4: a party that had basically the photo of Pinochet everywhere. 100 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,440 Speaker 4: You know, this is like, they can't do it, So 101 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 4: it's very obvious in a way. Yes, So this guy 102 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 4: was proposing things that were openly fascist, for example, to 103 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 4: create an alliance international alliance to persecute the radicals, the 104 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 4: left wing radicals that have been at the center of 105 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 4: this popular uprising in Chile, because the thesis of the 106 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 4: far right was that this was a conspiracy from international sources. Basically, okay, 107 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 4: got it, and therefore this kind of candidate got the 108 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 4: first majority in that first round. 109 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 3: So in the first with the seven parties, Loos Antonio 110 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 3: cass led all was the vote the top vot get 111 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 3: or how much percentage did he get in the first round. 112 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 4: He got a twenty let me see twenty six. 113 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so like a quarter of the country give or take. 114 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 4: Okay, And he basically thought this was a win and 115 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 4: that basically here they were going to take over. And 116 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 4: it is was true. If you did the math, then 117 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 4: the other guy and we're going to talk about the 118 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 4: other guy, because the other guy is going to be president. 119 00:07:14,960 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: Love this, Yeah, the guy who won, We need to 120 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 3: talk about the guy who won the second. 121 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, he was second place. And if you did the math, 122 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 4: basically cast would win in the second round by like 123 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 4: one hundred thousand votes. Like if the turnout was the same, 124 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 4: he would lose the election. So basically he needed to 125 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 4: go and look for all the people that didn't vote 126 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 4: who were fifty three percent of the electorate. So imagine 127 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 4: fifty three percent of the people didn't vote in this way. 128 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 3: All right, So then basically we get to the runoff 129 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 3: and who is the eventual winner. Let's mention his name 130 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 3: because he is the president. He will be the next 131 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: president of Chile, and let's talk about him. Although the 132 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 3: host Antonio cast thing is a movie, that's a Netflix movie, 133 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 3: Like someone needs to do that. But tell me about 134 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 3: the winner and also the strategy of that winner. 135 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:05,920 Speaker 4: Yes, soen Vodich he won with a fifty six percent 136 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 4: of the vote in the second round. Yeah, and basically 137 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:12,080 Speaker 4: what happened. This guy is very young. He's one of 138 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 4: the I think the youngest is in his thirties, the 139 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 4: youngest president ever in chilein and he came out of 140 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 4: the student movements that began in twenty eleven around the 141 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 4: education in Chile. Education in Chile, very similar to the US, 142 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 4: is completely privatized and is very expensive. So people are 143 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 4: got into debt in order to get their kids to college. 144 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 4: And now everybody's in debt, and they were pushing for 145 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 4: making a free college. So very kind of Bernie Sanders 146 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 4: before Bernie was kind of in this idea and then 147 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 4: to eliminate debt, because we also have a debt that 148 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:48,880 Speaker 4: is like sponsored by the state, but it's a heavy debt. 149 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 4: So this was the movement and he came out of that, 150 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 4: he became a representative in the lower House, still is 151 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:59,560 Speaker 4: and basically he leads the friend de Ambio, which is 152 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 4: this kind of new left coalition that has kind of 153 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 4: center center left and also now is in coalition with 154 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:12,839 Speaker 4: the Communist Party in a grand alliance called Approval Dignidad Approval. 155 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,360 Speaker 4: It was the approval of the inaugural Constituent pledisite, so 156 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 4: the PLTI side that we had in twenty twenty when 157 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 4: Chile decided that Chileans decided to go forward with a 158 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 4: new constitution. So the approval, the approval of that became 159 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 4: kind of a coalition in itself. So basically it has 160 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 4: that name, and Dignidad is dignity because that was the 161 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 4: banner of the movement, so that he is the leader 162 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 4: of that coalition. 163 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 3: Okay, you're breaking it down, but talk to me a 164 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 3: little bit before we talk about the prospects and all 165 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 3: these coalitions, because now it's because it is not I 166 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 3: think one of the biggest misperceptions. That I want to 167 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,120 Speaker 3: talk to you is about sort of where does the 168 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,640 Speaker 3: left stand in the context of Chile and also in 169 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 3: the concept of Latin America right now. But that's a 170 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 3: separate question, because I do want to know a little 171 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,160 Speaker 3: bit more about Borick, like, tell me more about him 172 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: and tell me what he's done since he has won, 173 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,000 Speaker 3: because it was pretty historic. This is a big deal, 174 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 3: like this thirty something student movement protester is the president 175 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: of Chile and the left and then, given understanding the 176 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: context of leftist politics in Chile, talk to me about 177 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 3: all that first, Yes. 178 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 4: But you know what, as you speak of it, and 179 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,320 Speaker 4: I have read it in the news elsewhere, it sounds 180 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 4: more radical than it is right, because what happened is 181 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 4: that Gabriel Vorich has already been around, you know, ten 182 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 4: years in politics. Ten years is a long time to 183 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:39,679 Speaker 4: be in politics. In a way, it wears you down. 184 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 4: His you know, rebellious nature was quickly become more responsible 185 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,640 Speaker 4: quote unquote, and he more a like a like a dealer. 186 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 4: So he has now a reputation I being a guy 187 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,679 Speaker 4: that negotiates and makes pacts. And here this is a 188 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 4: very important piece of information. You remember that we spoke 189 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 4: about the how the plebiscite came about as an agreement 190 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 4: between a government that was very you know, in the 191 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,199 Speaker 4: corner with no support, and that call basically all the 192 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 4: political party leaders to create an exit pact basically to 193 00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 4: see how this is going to end this constituent process. 194 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 4: And they imposed a series of rules. The more important 195 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,040 Speaker 4: one is that basically the two thirds super majority that 196 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 4: every article of the constitution must have and that gives 197 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 4: by basically a veto power to the statut school forces. 198 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 4: Basically that the reproduced the system right. So the guy 199 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:39,000 Speaker 4: that actually did that was Gavielle Borrich. Everything started and 200 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 4: we know that after because one of the guys, the 201 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,160 Speaker 4: of the deputies from the right, actually spilled the beans 202 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 4: in one of the TV shows saying that this pact 203 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 4: began in a bathroom, in a men's bathroom between a 204 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 4: senator from the ultra right party, this UDI party and 205 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 4: Gabriel Borich, that they met in the men's room in 206 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 4: between negotiations and then they packed it and the he agreed. 207 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 3: Okay, So let's suffer a second, because I think this 208 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 3: is a point that is clearly getting missed. I think 209 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,920 Speaker 3: in Latino communities in the United States when they start 210 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 3: thinking about the context of Latin America and Chile. So 211 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 3: you're saying basically that would he be someone like Andres 212 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 3: Lopez o Radote who's kind of sort of gotten more 213 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 3: political and more seasoned and might not you know, might 214 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 3: have started as a leftist on all the way on 215 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 3: the extreme, but now is a little bit more political. 216 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 3: Is Borage going down that path or is he still 217 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,640 Speaker 3: kind of true to the cause. 218 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:40,080 Speaker 1: I guess that's my first question. 219 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 4: Yes, so he will become a lo I would say 220 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,320 Speaker 4: in power, because one thing is to see people outside 221 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 4: of power and the other is with power. And I 222 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 4: think at least my appreciation on who Borie is, he's 223 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 4: very ecocentric. He was a very kind of like leader, 224 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 4: like in this that they believe that they are, you know, 225 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 4: has special features basically, and they need to rule kind 226 00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 4: of thing. He's he's born to do this, you know. 227 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 4: So I think is going to go that path. 228 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: This is fascinating. 229 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 3: Can I just I know you're going to say, I 230 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 3: want you to continue, But this is fascinating because I 231 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,120 Speaker 3: think it brings up the issue of the Latin American 232 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 3: president as sort of egocentric individual I think of, you know, 233 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 3: I think of naive buke when you mentioned things like this, 234 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 3: you know what I'm saying, like, please say more of this, 235 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 3: because this is fascinating. 236 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: I am in. I am so in with this conversation, Camilla. Continue. 237 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 4: The thing is, if you the press, especially the right 238 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 4: wing press, the economists, the Financial Times, you know, all 239 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 4: these you know, newspapers, they frame this, you know, second 240 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:51,079 Speaker 4: round between this cast guy who is a Pinochet lover basically, 241 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 4: and Borich, who is very kind of center left, like 242 00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 4: very a social democrat in a way, but very within 243 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:00,840 Speaker 4: the bounds. He wants to be responsible. He talks about 244 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 4: responsible transformations all the time. So it's like he's not 245 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 4: going to go and push the boundaries. He's not going 246 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 4: to do that. He's just going to go within the 247 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 4: margins and negotiate with the right wingers. This is kind 248 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 4: of like how I perceive it, and the press has 249 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 4: kind of misconstrued this between fascism and communism in a 250 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 4: way like he is like this radical. 251 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 3: So this is so interesting because obviously when news came 252 00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 3: out in the United States, you know a lot of 253 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 3: conservatives Latino or Latino conservatives, you know, in the Miami 254 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 3: area and other places. Latin Americans that I know were like, oh, 255 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: here comes Chilezuela. You know that this notion of this 256 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 3: combination of Chile becoming Venezuela and this whole like exactly 257 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 3: what you're saying. And see the fascism or communism, there's 258 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: nothing in between. But you're saying that. But which is 259 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 3: That's not your take on him. 260 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 4: No, he's very he wants stability. So so I analyzed. 261 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 4: I basically I went into the speech he gave in 262 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 4: that first you know round when he lost the first majority, 263 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 4: and he talked about harmony, social piece, social cohesion, building 264 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 4: bridges with you know, the opponents, things that you know 265 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 4: Obama would say, you know that the idea of my partisanship. 266 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 4: And I think I read it as you know, an 267 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:20,000 Speaker 4: Obama like person that he comes like with the youth 268 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 4: and with the touch and now everything and the campaign 269 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,760 Speaker 4: in between. This is very interesting because the campaign in between. 270 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 4: So how did he get fifty six percent of the 271 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 4: vote because he was, you know, doing to fail in 272 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 4: a way he got more than a million new votes 273 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 4: out and how did they get it doing a double strategy? 274 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 4: So the strategy he did like formal like the you know, 275 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 4: the advertisement in TV, his own speeches. What he said 276 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 4: and his supporters were saying on TV was very kind 277 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 4: of looking forward and very kind of like the hope 278 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 4: we were going to make things better and looking more 279 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,640 Speaker 4: like the hope campaign of Obama. However, in the informal realm, 280 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:08,000 Speaker 4: in the social media Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, everywhere, the chats 281 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 4: on WhatsApp, it was all about this is the only 282 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:15,520 Speaker 4: alternative against fascism. If cass is elected, we're doomed. The 283 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 4: people that are, you know, sexual dissidents or a political dissidence, 284 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 4: they're going to be persecuted. 285 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,480 Speaker 3: So really the fear it brought back the dictatorship. It 286 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 3: brought back in and returned to Pinoche. So it kind 287 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 3: of maybe, in your opinion, convinced people that remembered that 288 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 3: time to be like, I'm not going back to that 289 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 3: right that that could have he could have picked up 290 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 3: votes that way as well. 291 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: Is that what you're saying? 292 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, but it was not real, Ah. 293 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: How was it not real? 294 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 4: Like he in a way in the in the formal 295 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,320 Speaker 4: he was just a regular candidate basically going for kind 296 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:52,800 Speaker 4: of like responsible transformations. Talking to write he was talking 297 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 4: to the center rite okay, and then in the social 298 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 4: media he was talking to the popular sectors who do 299 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 4: not vote for him because he packed this thing on 300 00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 4: a bathroom. You know that this is the problem that 301 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 4: they know. Everybody knows the story. So they called borich 302 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 4: Amarillo the Yellowish because you know, they're subservient to power. 303 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 4: The changes, you know, from one where the heat is. 304 00:17:14,880 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 4: Basically he goes this is part of this reputation among 305 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 4: the popular sectors on the left. So basically the only 306 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:24,199 Speaker 4: way to get those votes was through fear. So in 307 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 4: the informal arena, he was like the leader of the 308 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:29,320 Speaker 4: anti fascist coalition. 309 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, ah, got it all right, So yeah, and then 310 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,000 Speaker 3: make your last point because I have a couple more 311 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 3: questions by Reba. 312 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 4: Well lemiss that it always was an attention because basically 313 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 4: he invited the former parties of the concertation. So the 314 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 4: Christian Democrats that you remember that they supported the coup 315 00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy three and then have you know, privatized 316 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:52,239 Speaker 4: half of Chile. Yeah, the Socialist Party, all these the 317 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 4: parties that go earned basically neo liberalism for thirty years. 318 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 4: He invited them to this new coalition against you know, 319 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 4: to save the more so we have this weird thing 320 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 4: of a kind of a neoliberal anti fascist coalition that 321 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 4: is not really there, and therefore he won. So you 322 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 4: ask me the first question, what happened that, you know, 323 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 4: December nineteenth. I think fear of fascism won that election. 324 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,479 Speaker 3: Wow, and not necessarily it's fear of fascis is not 325 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,080 Speaker 3: necessarily like the left is back in Chile and you know, 326 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,720 Speaker 3: Atende and it's back, and here we go like that's 327 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 3: too simplistic, So that I guess that's my big question here. 328 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 3: It's like, so is it too simplistic to conclude that, Well, 329 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 3: what do you think the left is in Latin America now? 330 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 3: Is it becoming more of like a traditional neiliberal type 331 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 3: place where you see these center left candidates or is 332 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 3: it still like you know, does it have a future 333 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,639 Speaker 3: still in sort of its traditional historical roots of what 334 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 3: the left has been in Latin America? 335 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: And how does Chile reflect that? 336 00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 3: And what do you think in general about just like 337 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 3: the left in Latin America right now after this election 338 00:18:58,119 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 3: and even after the one in on Buddhas. 339 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 4: Yes, No, I think a body is not left as 340 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:05,840 Speaker 4: we understand the left kind of more in here in Latinorels. 341 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,919 Speaker 3: We're talking, Oh in Latina. I mean I know what 342 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 3: you mean. I mean, okay, I got you, I got you. 343 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:13,719 Speaker 4: It is more like a Democrat, like a Democrat from 344 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 4: the US liberal in a way that there are for 345 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 4: you know, gay rights and for you know, giving special 346 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 4: you know, accommodations for women and you know, creating a 347 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,159 Speaker 4: better society. Yes, but they're not really left in the 348 00:19:27,160 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 4: sense that they are not going to change the modes 349 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 4: of accumulation and this possession. Yeah, you're not going. 350 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: To ask capitalism is still winning. 351 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 4: Capitalism, okay, because they don't want that. They want to 352 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 4: be government and they're gonna govern and they're going to 353 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 4: make things better. Reformists in a way. So I don't 354 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 4: think he's the left. However, there was a recent development 355 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,919 Speaker 4: in the Constituent Convention which is very hopeful. Remember that 356 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 4: in that convention there are around eighteen percent or twenty 357 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 4: percent of the convention is independent. All the rest is 358 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 4: party driven. So it is kind of like super majority 359 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 4: of people that are for the reproduction of the system 360 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 4: and changes you know in the margins in a way. 361 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 4: And the independents have been very kind of scrambling. You know, 362 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 4: from the first six months they got thrown under the bus. 363 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:17,040 Speaker 4: They couldn't put their things in the agenda. However, they learned, 364 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:20,520 Speaker 4: and it was so incredible to see because the new 365 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:24,879 Speaker 4: president and vice president of the Constituent Convention, there was 366 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 4: new elections for these six months where the articles will 367 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 4: be written. So therefore now there's more power because there 368 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:32,880 Speaker 4: is you know, the agenda setting and all these things 369 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 4: that happen when you are by a president and by 370 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 4: president and you can kind of organize the discussion, okay. 371 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 4: Is that the two people elected were elected because the 372 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 4: independents decided to use their power and block candidates from 373 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 4: other coalitions that had voted against giving binding power to 374 00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 4: the people during the constituent process. Only they allowed the 375 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:01,960 Speaker 4: people that have voted a face of an initiative that 376 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,080 Speaker 4: was launched by one of the independents to give basically 377 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,159 Speaker 4: this popular initiative power to the people to call a 378 00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 4: plebiscide or to put things directly into the constitution. And 379 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,240 Speaker 4: the two people that were elected, they both voted in favor. 380 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 4: And this is grant because they are the minority. They 381 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 4: were like twenty people that yeah. 382 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 1: So now so there's still I know what you're saying. 383 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 3: So basically it's safe to say this is the rise 384 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 3: of the center left in Latin America. Like that's basically 385 00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 3: what we're seeing more of in terms of people that 386 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,000 Speaker 3: are reaching presidential power. And if Borsonado loses in Brazil 387 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 3: later this year, and yeah, you know, that's probably what's 388 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,520 Speaker 3: going to happen as well. I mean the pendulum, as 389 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,159 Speaker 3: they say in the traditional Latin American sphere, it's not 390 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 3: going from one way to another. There's a little bit 391 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 3: more of a medal that we're seeing, right, I mean, 392 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 3: that's sort of like my last thought. 393 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,280 Speaker 4: And also, and I think we need to consider borich 394 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 4: Is government is going to be a hinge government. It's 395 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 4: not going to be a transformational, you know, kind of 396 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 4: a grand government because the right wingers have the half 397 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 4: of the Congress, so. 398 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 3: They so he's got to play. He's got to play 399 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 3: with them. 400 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 4: So I don't think I think they will. 401 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: Block every you see. Ah, so there's okay, I see 402 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: what you're saying. 403 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 4: Well, basically, even if he wants to be progressive, basically 404 00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 4: is the right to imagine the right wing coalition plus 405 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:28,560 Speaker 4: the Republican Party and the Evangelicals have half of the Senate, 406 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 4: and the Senate has power. 407 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,359 Speaker 3: So wow, it's like it's just a welcome to Welcome 408 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 3: to the United States. That's basically what Chaila is becoming. 409 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:36,959 Speaker 3: It feels that way so well. 410 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 4: The Independents are pushing for giving the people the power 411 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 4: to bypass Congress, you know, because when you have a 412 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 4: new constitution, and the new constitution will be ready to 413 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 4: be ratified in September, they say, okay, So basically the 414 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 4: new government will have to implement this new constitution because 415 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:56,120 Speaker 4: when you have a constitution, it's not like the constitution 416 00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 4: changes the world. You need to start dismantling things and 417 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,560 Speaker 4: building things that will materialize that constitution. And therefore the 418 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 4: government needs to pass lots of laws, you know at 419 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 4: the beginning. And if you don't have the Congress with you, 420 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:09,719 Speaker 4: what are you going to do? 421 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 3: We can keep talking, Camila Bagatta, but we're just gonna 422 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 3: bring you on and just you know, bring you along 423 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 3: later in the year to see where how bort it 424 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 3: she is doing. So, Camila Regatta, thank you so much 425 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 3: for being on Latino Rubbles Radio. 426 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 4: Thank you for having me again. 427 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:24,680 Speaker 1: Julio, I just want to thank Camila. 428 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,080 Speaker 3: She what a great conversation, What a great start to 429 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:32,159 Speaker 3: the year in terms of Latin American politics, which of 430 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 3: I am such a geek of and so is my 431 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 3: producer Oscar Fernandez. And like we always do, we always 432 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 3: close out with LA's Latino Rebels Radio. 433 00:23:42,920 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: We at of here, not medaling God, No, you. 434 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:14,639 Speaker 3: Listen, no exsting. 435 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:21,440 Speaker 2: Be almedy God, No play in my house waiting bo. 436 00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 1: That's all this gay this day, no thing, not try again. 437 00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: Let's get me something this coun No I said, that's 438 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:33,160 Speaker 1: be amed God. No play in my house, you're wedding. 439 00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 4: Me? No medic something like anything, so mean nobody. The 440 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,640 Speaker 4: opinions expressed by the guests and contributors in this podcast 441 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:00,840 Speaker 4: are their own and do not necessarily reflect the views 442 00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 4: of Futuromedia or its employees.