1 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: Amy Robock and TJ. Holmes present Killer Thriller with your 2 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: host Alisa Donovan. 3 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller. 4 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 2: Few true crime stories have gripped America like the murder 5 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: of Lacy Peterson. A beautiful, pregnant wife vanishes on Christmas Eve. 6 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 2: Her seemingly perfect husband goes on national television insisting he's innocent. 7 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 2: Then the lies affairs, media frenzy, and courtroom bombshells begin 8 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 2: piling up. The story became one of the biggest true 9 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: crime obsessions of the two thousands and inspired the TV 10 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 2: movie The Perfect Husband The Lacy Peterson Story. Today, we're 11 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 2: joined by veteran court TV journalist Ted Rowlands, who covered 12 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: the case from the very beginning and interviewed Scott Peterson 13 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 2: inside his home while Lacey was still missing. 14 00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:04,319 Speaker 1: Ted, Welcome to Killer Thriller. I'm so thrilled to meet you. 15 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,520 Speaker 3: Oh glad to be with you as well. It's a 16 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 3: great to see you. I've watched you many times, but 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:12,680 Speaker 3: to actually meet you as fantastic. 18 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. Well, ditto, because I have been so. 19 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: Just impressed with the trajectory of your career, which essentially 20 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 2: the first question being did you think that you'd still 21 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: be talking about Scott Peterson all these years later. 22 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: No. I met him the day on the twenty sixth, 23 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:37,680 Speaker 3: the morning of the twenty sixth of December, back in 24 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 3: two thousand and two, and you know, it was just 25 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 3: another missing person story, but there was something. We went 26 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 3: to my photographer, I went to his door, asked for 27 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 3: an interview, and he refused and he didn't want to 28 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 3: be on camera, which is so different than any other 29 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 3: missing family member, because you want everyone to help find 30 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 3: your loved one, and he was the opposite. He turned 31 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 3: that thing off, gave us a flyer, set us on 32 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 3: our way, and we both looked at each other and hmmm, 33 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 3: we're gonna be back tomorrow. 34 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: Wow, so you knew me. 35 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: This is like, you know, from the outside, me and 36 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: my armchair, you know, expert tise over here. It's easy 37 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:21,120 Speaker 2: to say, like, oh, of course, all that behavior is 38 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: so weird. I would have thought immediately that something was wrong, 39 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 2: but it kind of sounds like you did think that 40 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: I did. 41 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 3: But during the whole thing, I went up and down. 42 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: I got to know him very well, his family, and 43 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 3: when Amber Fry, the girlfriend popped out, everyone else said, scoundrel. 44 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 3: He did it. I thought, oh boy, this is it. 45 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: This is why he's acting so weird. He was cheating 46 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: on his wife. He didn't kill his wife. That's why 47 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,880 Speaker 3: he didn't want to be on camera. That's why he didn't. 48 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 3: He was reluctant to do interviews and be seen. He 49 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 3: didn't want the affair to come out. You know. Since then, 50 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 3: I've gone up and down many times as well. 51 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 2: Right, right, So when you first went into his house 52 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 2: and actually did get to interview him, what was your 53 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: impression of him and the house. 54 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 3: Well, he was at this point we had conversed daily. 55 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 3: I harassed him like I never harassed any one in 56 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,880 Speaker 3: my calling him and he was a nice guy, so 57 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 3: he really couldn't. He could decline some calls, but he 58 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 3: would always answer, you know, once a day he would answer. 59 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,600 Speaker 3: We talked for a while, and so we had established 60 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 3: a relationship ish, but it was one sided. And boy, 61 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 3: when we walked in his house, he was in control. 62 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 3: He had all the rules, be there for five minutes, 63 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 3: told us to take our shoes off, and it was 64 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 3: very orchestrated. He did not answer any question with any 65 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: depth at all, and it was kind of what we expected. 66 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: But we walked out of there thinking, hmm, this just 67 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 3: doesn't seem like a guy that's lost his wife an 68 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 3: unborn child. It's more of a guy that's trying to evade. 69 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it seems so. 70 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 2: I mean, none of it made any sense to me 71 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 2: when you see this person who you know. Of course, 72 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 2: no one knows how you're going to respond if something 73 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 2: so tragic happens, right, But I would imagine that ninety 74 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 2: eight percent of the people on the planet would have 75 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,160 Speaker 2: an emotional response of some sort. 76 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: When they have to speak on this. 77 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 2: And I was just struck by the kind of diabolical 78 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 2: evenness of him. 79 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:37,680 Speaker 1: It's really creepy. 80 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know when he did that interview on 81 00:04:41,120 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 3: what I think it was Peacock just it was recently 82 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:44,359 Speaker 3: within the last. 83 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: Five Yes, I watched. 84 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,120 Speaker 3: I was very eager because it was like, all right, 85 00:04:47,200 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 3: what are we going to get here? And it was 86 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 3: the same salesman, nice guy. After sitting in prison for 87 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 3: twenty years, you'd been throwing your hair out, yelling and screamings, 88 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 3: they get me out right, But it wasn't that. 89 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 2: At all, right, I mean, it's in It's crazy to me, 90 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: so all right, let's going back to Christmas Eve two 91 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 2: thousand and two. What exactly did he originally tell the 92 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 2: police that he had been doing the day that Lazy disappeared. 93 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 3: He told friends that he had gone golfing, but he 94 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 3: told police in his interview that he went up to 95 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 3: the San Francisco Bay to launch his new boat and 96 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 3: was going to come home and have dinner with Lacey. 97 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 3: He was going to stop off and pick up a basket. 98 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: They were going to go over to Lacey's parents' house 99 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 3: for Christmas Eve dinner, And that was his story to 100 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,159 Speaker 3: the police. The problem is that he had told friends 101 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 3: he was golfing, and he was a member of a 102 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 3: golf club and golf all the time. But why lie 103 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 3: about that? Why? And so the inconsistencies did begin immediately 104 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 3: in terms of his story. 105 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 1: So that is also what struck me. 106 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,839 Speaker 2: I mean so many things about this, like your pregnant 107 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 2: wife and you're going to go fishing or golfing, but 108 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:06,919 Speaker 2: also that the marina was ninety minutes from his home. 109 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's in Modesto and he's going up to the 110 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 3: San Francisco Bay, which is a gnarly place to launch 111 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 3: a fourteen foot boat that you just bought off the 112 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 3: street from some dude with cash. 113 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: In December. 114 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 2: I mean, I live in I live in San Francisco, 115 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 2: and let me tell you. When I first moved here 116 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: and somebody was like, oh, we're going to do a 117 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 2: sailing boat trip, you know in June, I was like, oh, great, 118 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 2: in my little shorts and everybody's wearing parkas and like 119 00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: rain jackets and boots. You know, there's no such thing 120 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 2: as especially in December, you know, of a nice little 121 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: boat ride out in the San Francisco Bay. 122 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: Absolutely, I lived there many many years, and it is 123 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 3: it's you would never in a million years go fishing 124 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 3: on Christmas Eve. Again, to your point, when your wife 125 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,360 Speaker 3: is eight and a half months pregnant, if you did 126 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: do that, good luck coming home because you. 127 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 1: Are exactly. 128 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 3: Locked out. 129 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: Exactly. So, how important was it that the discovery of 130 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 1: Lacy and her onborn child, Connor's bodies they were found 131 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: near the exact area where Scott admitted that he had 132 00:07:19,320 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: been fishing. I mean, how important was that discovery? 133 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 3: Well, very important for really both sides of the equation 134 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: that the defense says, Okay, of course they were found 135 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 3: there because the kidnappers put her there, they put her 136 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 3: and Connor in the bay exactly where he had put 137 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 3: himself launching from the Berkeley Marina. And of course for prosecutors, 138 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 3: it gave them the green light to arrest him and 139 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 3: go to traub because before that, without the bodies, there's 140 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,080 Speaker 3: no way they could have won this this case. I 141 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: sat through the entire trial and I wasn't sure which 142 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 3: way it was going to go, because on the outside, yes, oh, 143 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 3: of course he did it. But if you get your 144 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,240 Speaker 3: get into the details, and I warned people not to 145 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 3: because it's miserable, how did he do it? You know? 146 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,000 Speaker 3: And that's the question that to this day his family, 147 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 3: who supports him to this day, asked, Okay, you think 148 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 3: he did it, tell me how he did it? And 149 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 3: when you start going down that rabbit hole it is 150 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 3: it's I'm not sure how he pulled it off. 151 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: Do you mean it brings up more questions if you 152 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: go down the rabbit hole or it's too gruesome. 153 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: Yes, in terms of specifically how he did it. Did 154 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: the prosecutor in this case, Rick Destasso said in his 155 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 3: closing argument to the jury, we don't know when he 156 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 3: did it, We don't know how he did it. We 157 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 3: just know he did it, and the jury went with that, 158 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:40,400 Speaker 3: and I get it, and I'm going with it too, 159 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 3: But how did he do this? It's a very There 160 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 3: was no blood, no fluid at all. If you killed 161 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 3: her in the house, the time is limited. He's taken. 162 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: He has to take her in his truck to his workshop, 163 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 3: transfer the body into the either back of the boat, 164 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 3: or keep her in the truck and drag the boat 165 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 3: up to the then transfer where do you transfer the body? 166 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 3: And now hours have gone by. A dead pregnant woman 167 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 3: is going to release fluids. Everybody does when they're dead. 168 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 3: Nothing in the boat, nothing in the house. He doesn't 169 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:15,160 Speaker 3: have time to clean up. There's no time to clean 170 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 3: up because he makes he makes a phone call, putting 171 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 3: himself in between the bay and modesto and the services 172 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 3: on immediately. No time to go back to the warehouse, 173 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 3: clean up the house. They've got a warrant, a search warrant. 174 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 3: So it is it's hard to fathom how we do. 175 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 2: Gosh, you know, every time I talk, you know, I 176 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 2: like everyone, I think, I have my strong feelings and 177 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 2: opinions based on nothing except for my own instincts. When 178 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 2: I see this person, speak, and then all of the 179 00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 2: details of the great and if he could lie so 180 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 2: directly to his girlfriend that he's in Paris while he's 181 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 2: you know, at a midnight visial or what have you, 182 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 2: looking for his wife. All of those things are so diabolical. 183 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 2: But it just feels like, how. 184 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: In what universe does he not just blatantly. 185 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 2: Admit his innocence, like from the beginning, like plead his 186 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: his cay, Like. 187 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: I just don't understand. 188 00:10:20,360 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 3: That even with the in laws. So if you think about, 189 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: all right, I get caught shooting having this affair with 190 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 3: Amber Fry, they now don't believe me. But time has 191 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 3: gone by twenty thirty years, and still he's almost thirty years, 192 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 3: he's now still not I mean, I would be calling 193 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: them from my prison phone every day saying, listen, you 194 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 3: gotta believe me. I was cheating on her. I did 195 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:49,760 Speaker 3: not kill her, and that went. He was silent from 196 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 3: the beginning. So to your point, and yes, people react differently. 197 00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 3: I get that, not over time, not sitting in a 198 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 3: box in the California prison system. 199 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 2: Right, You've said that Scott never really seemed to feel 200 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 2: a loss for Connor, for his unborn son. 201 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: Is that was that something that stood out to you 202 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:23,959 Speaker 1: from the very beginning? 203 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 3: I know, I don't want to say that, because you 204 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 3: know what he was going on and what was going 205 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:31,560 Speaker 3: on inside him. I don't know, you know, his affect 206 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 3: was very just bland, and I would assume that he 207 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 3: did feel a loss. He by all accounts his parents, 208 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,160 Speaker 3: lace his parents, all the siblings, all the friends. This 209 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 3: is a guy that you know, helped build up the 210 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 3: nursery and was the the the epitome of an expecting 211 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 3: father during the pregnancy. So I don't know, it is 212 00:11:57,040 --> 00:11:59,199 Speaker 3: so hard to get. That's why the case is so fascinating. 213 00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 3: Why why what was the upside? Really? You got rid 214 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:05,079 Speaker 3: of her so that you could be with Amber Fry 215 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,280 Speaker 3: and that's what the family says. No nobody would right, 216 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 3: and she had a child. He didn't want to be 217 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 3: a father. It doesn't make sense. 218 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 2: So so much of the you know, when I hear 219 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 2: the Lacey's girlfriends speak about her in the new The 220 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 2: Peacock documentary documentary, it really does feel like they again 221 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 2: maybe this is you know, in retrospect, et cetera, but 222 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 2: they do make it seem as though he wasn't really 223 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 2: that interested in having a child. He kind of was 224 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 2: making her if she wasn't having a great Christmas season as. 225 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: This person who historically has. 226 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:48,160 Speaker 2: Loved the holidays, and all of those things seemed to 227 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 2: contribute to to saying this man was didn't want to 228 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: be there. 229 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,599 Speaker 3: Which obviously there's he's having an affair, so there's a 230 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:01,599 Speaker 3: part there was problems, problems with the marriage and with 231 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 3: him specifically, So yeah, I mean his trying to figure 232 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 3: him out. Good luck the case itself, how did he 233 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 3: do it? And all that. You know, there's so many 234 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 3: different theories that his family and now that California Innocence 235 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,400 Speaker 3: Project is on to it because they're just looking at 236 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 3: the black and white. They're looking at the evidence and 237 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 3: sort of the lack of evidence. But then these other scenarios, 238 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,360 Speaker 3: the burglary at the team. 239 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, let's talk about that, all of that, the 240 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 2: supposed new evidence. 241 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 1: Is there any validity to that? 242 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: There's the van, the burnt out van, and then the 243 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 2: watch that apparently was Lacy's that was sold at a 244 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 2: pawn shop. 245 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:52,080 Speaker 3: Watch, So all of these things did bubble up and 246 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 3: they were part of the initial investigation that the orange 247 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 3: van and the mattress, all of that was right there 248 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 3: in the park and it was sort of buried in 249 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 3: the discovery and the defense really didn't hone in on 250 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 3: it at the time. So is it new new to 251 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,320 Speaker 3: the to some people? And what they want to do 252 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:19,160 Speaker 3: the la A project. They want to test, you know, 253 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: they want to test the van, the mattress. There were 254 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 3: some bags, plastic bags found near the bodies when they 255 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 3: were recovered in the Richmond Bay and that had duct 256 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 3: tape on them, and they want to test that. There's 257 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,360 Speaker 3: duct tape on Lacey's what was left of Lacey's pants. 258 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 3: So there is really nothing new except they say that 259 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:49,400 Speaker 3: through interviews that they do have a connection between the van, 260 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 3: Lacy and the bodies. So is that that someone has 261 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 3: come forward. Possibly They don't spell it out though in 262 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:01,720 Speaker 3: their habeas and they don't identify an individual or or 263 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 3: individuals that might have connected the dots because without the 264 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 3: dots being connected, it really is the same. So that said, 265 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,680 Speaker 3: if Lacey's DNA is in the van, game over Scott's innocent. 266 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 3: If if they can connect someone through DNA off of 267 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 3: the duct tape on Lacey's pants and it's some person 268 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 3: that was in modesto x y Z Okay, then you 269 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 3: then you've got something right. 270 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 2: So do you think that because he seems to obviously 271 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: be very supportive of this, trying to get this DNA testing, 272 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 2: et cetera. But do you think he'd be scared if 273 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 2: they were going to test all these things if he 274 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: was guilty. 275 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 3: Oh, he you wouldn't care. I mean, you might as 276 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 3: well roll the dice. You and everybody thinks you did it. 277 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 3: You can say, well, I was the husband. Of course, 278 00:15:49,280 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 3: my DNA was on her pants, you know. 279 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:56,560 Speaker 2: Right, it's the right roll the dice because any it 280 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 2: could have picked up somebody else's DNA somewhere along. 281 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 3: And if he did, if he did it, which most 282 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 3: of us think he did, what's really disheartening him for 283 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 3: me is that seeing the way that his family has riled, 284 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 3: rallied around him. You know, if if they didn't talk 285 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 3: to him, or they weren't, I mean, Jane went and 286 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 3: got a lot of Greek. 287 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: This really freaks me out. Has dedicated her life. 288 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 3: Yes, can you give her some peace? Can you just 289 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 3: tell dad? Can you tell everyone you know what, I'm sorry, 290 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 3: I did it. Well, he's too far down their road now. 291 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 3: But it is such a shame that if he did it, 292 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 3: that they are now forced to live this life thinking 293 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: and the unthinkable. Can you imagine a loved one wrongfully 294 00:16:45,960 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 3: convicted of such a horrible crime. 295 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,600 Speaker 2: Right, I mean, it's it's terrible to consider, for sure, 296 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:57,080 Speaker 2: And yeah, I really do think about that. It's his 297 00:16:57,160 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: sister in law Jane, right, Yes, but she really just 298 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,159 Speaker 2: took the reins and went I'm so curious about that 299 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 2: about why she not her brother, not his brother? Like 300 00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:14,679 Speaker 2: this sister in law gets a very unusual dynamic. 301 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 3: She's a unique person. I know her quite well and 302 00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 3: I love her. She's a great person and has worked hard. 303 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:25,920 Speaker 3: She's intelligent and really is she's caught up on how 304 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,800 Speaker 3: and the all of the you know, there's two ways 305 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 3: to look at it. Do you just feel it you 306 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,800 Speaker 3: did it, But if you get into the details, then 307 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:38,200 Speaker 3: you question and you want to figure out this problem 308 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 3: as math. That's her. She wants to figure out what 309 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 3: happened exactly how, and she can't get all the way 310 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 3: that Scott did it through the evidence, and that's why 311 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 3: that's his defense, that's the la innocence project. So it's 312 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,960 Speaker 3: two ways to look at it. But if you do 313 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 3: step back, which my wife always told me during the 314 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 3: trial he did it. He did it, And I'm like, 315 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 3: oh no, I don't know. You know, come on, man, 316 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 3: there's just two ways to look at it, and his 317 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 3: defense and his family's looking at it just black and white, 318 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 3: and the rest of us, I think are sort of thinking, 319 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,680 Speaker 3: come on, man, right. 320 00:18:15,560 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 2: I mean, because there You've done so many interviews about 321 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 2: people who have been falsely imprisoned, and this one is 322 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 2: just it's hard, it's complicated. 323 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 3: The defense would there they want you to believe, and 324 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,119 Speaker 3: it's it is a leap that Lacey interrupts the burglary, 325 00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 3: the burglars throw her in a van and keep her 326 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 3: for a while. What's the endgame there? 327 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,199 Speaker 1: I mean, is she a superhero with a cape, like 328 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:41,720 Speaker 1: a pregnant lady eight and a half months pregnant and 329 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: she's going to go stop a burglary. Just even that 330 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: seems ludicrous to me. 331 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 3: Well, she you know, her personality was if she's walking 332 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,200 Speaker 3: Mackenzie the dog and she she sees someone at the 333 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 3: Medina's house who she knows, she's gonna go and and 334 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 3: confront them, Oh she would, okay, guy, that I wouldn't 335 00:19:01,359 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 3: doubt that. I don't think anybody who knew her would 336 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,840 Speaker 3: doubt that part of the equation. It's the the other guys. 337 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 3: They're two bid thief, drug addicts in Modesto. I mean there, 338 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 3: this is a lot to take on. Yes, open Lacy 339 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 3: up and put her in the back of the van 340 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 3: now and why and then then they have to watch 341 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,879 Speaker 3: the news and say, hmm, let's dump her in the 342 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 3: bay frame the husband, how do you pull that one off? Right? 343 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 1: That's a lot to expect of a you know, a 344 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: drug addict too. 345 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 3: Multiple criminals who now have not snitched you know this 346 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 3: many years later. It is a very difficult scenario, right 347 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,560 Speaker 3: to take leap. There is one scenario that I was 348 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 3: when I was covering this. This guy calls me up 349 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 3: and they went and met him at this bar near 350 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 3: a strip club in Modesto. And he says that Scott 351 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,560 Speaker 3: came in and was talking to a guy at this 352 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 3: bar and they had hatched a plant to have Lacey's 353 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 3: land or over stolen and that might have morphed into 354 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 3: a kidnapping that Scott knew about and it went haywire. 355 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,640 Speaker 3: And if that what actually happened, that he knew the kidnappers, 356 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 3: he he knew he had to get out of town. 357 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 3: Then all the pieces fit into place, because then they 358 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,200 Speaker 3: would frame him and he wouldn't kill anyone because he's 359 00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:31,640 Speaker 3: still he's even worse. 360 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 1: Wait, why would they why would they want to have 361 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 1: her land Rover stolen for what apparently? 362 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 3: And he it was like a scam, and then it 363 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: then they claim it maybe morphed into this sort of 364 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 3: kidnapping scenario, but it got so much immedia press. Nobody 365 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 3: called with the kidnapping. They my god, Now that said 366 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 3: there was nothing. I could not you know, I had 367 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 3: that story. I walked out of there thinking I had 368 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:04,400 Speaker 3: assaulted it. But there's no uh since then, no connective tissue, 369 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 3: so I can't. You know, it is just one of 370 00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:08,920 Speaker 3: those stories. But it stuck with me because the only 371 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,919 Speaker 3: thing that fits all of the it fits the equation 372 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 3: right right walk out of there. That's why, That's why 373 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 3: all that, that's why he goes fishing, because it just 374 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 3: gets a he's an idiot. He goes as far away 375 00:21:21,600 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 3: as you can. Think that's gonna help. You know, who 376 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 3: knows it is? There's an element of mysteries here, believe 377 00:21:28,359 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 3: it or not. I think people that are only they 378 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:33,960 Speaker 3: only see a little bit of it. They don't think 379 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 3: there's any mystery because of course he did it, and 380 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 3: they don't care. They don't care how but if you 381 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:43,440 Speaker 3: do it is Ah, it's a head scratcher, it really is. 382 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:02,320 Speaker 2: You've said, and I agree that Amber Fry was basically 383 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 2: the hero of the case. 384 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:06,920 Speaker 1: And why do you think that she changed everything? 385 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 3: Oh? Without her, they're in big trouble. That the trial 386 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:16,080 Speaker 3: shifted the day that Gloria all read Amber Fry took 387 00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 3: that escalator up and she walked into the court room. 388 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,359 Speaker 3: It was like, and she just told this story about 389 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:30,719 Speaker 3: meeting him. The recordings that you referenced are from like 390 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 3: the Twilight Zone. This guy's sitting at a visual for 391 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 3: his missing pregnant wife, claiming that he's dancing in the 392 00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 3: streets of Paris celebrating New Year's and throwing out these 393 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 3: odds like they're playing American pop songs. Can you hear me, Amber? 394 00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:49,800 Speaker 3: You know, I mean like holding their candles and he's 395 00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 3: over there that killed him. That everyone on that jury 396 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,080 Speaker 3: was listening and watching Amber and then they just sneak 397 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 3: a peek over it. That's rat bastard Peterson, and you 398 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 3: knew he was done. 399 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 1: I mean, it is that's like every. 400 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 2: Woman's worst nightmare, you know, seeing her like that, you 401 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 2: find out that this your your dream guy is leading 402 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 2: a double life and all those things. 403 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: Like I felt for her so deeply because. 404 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: You could tell that she's still really kind of loved him, 405 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 2: and it's like her bubble was bursting very publicly. 406 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,719 Speaker 3: Yeah. No, she was shocked, heartbroken. And the fact that 407 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:36,880 Speaker 3: she called and when you talk to the investigators Al 408 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 3: Brokini and John Buehler, they're like they got their call, 409 00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 3: They're like, oh shit, there's gotten their cars went to Fresno, 410 00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:50,919 Speaker 3: and she completely went with them and recorded those conversations 411 00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 3: and it was a game changer. 412 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: I mean. 413 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: And the fact that it's the Christmas she's in the 414 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,880 Speaker 2: red dress, like it all just is so. 415 00:23:59,320 --> 00:23:59,959 Speaker 3: It's awful. 416 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 1: It's awful. Yeah, it's pretty despicable. That's where we're leaving 417 00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: it for today, But trust us, Ted Rowlands has a 418 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,560 Speaker 1: lot more to say. Next time. Ted takes us deeper 419 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: inside the Scott Peterson case, the media frenzy, and the 420 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,440 Speaker 1: moments that still don't sit right with him all these 421 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:19,120 Speaker 1: years later.