1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,400 Speaker 1: It's high new. 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 2: There we go. 3 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: Yes, you killed with the whistle. There's a tumbleweed drifting. 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,400 Speaker 1: You know, there's a there's an old an old guy 5 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 1: sitting on a porch in his name is Jimson Weed 6 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:20,479 Speaker 1: or something like that, a big old rifle rested against 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: his rock and share it's high noon. Obviously you can 8 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: tell from that wonderful and neo morcone there, which means 9 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: he must automatically be a gunfight, right because it's the 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: wild West? 11 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 2: Not really apparently. Yeah, a lot less than one might think. 12 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,320 Speaker 2: If you're like most people, the phrase the wild West 13 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,800 Speaker 2: gives you those images that you are just describing ben 14 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 2: gun fights, tumbleweeds rolling down the streets. You know, criminals 15 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,879 Speaker 2: are going for the big bank heist, et cetera. You know, 16 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: bad guys and black hats, good guys and white ones. 17 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 2: Saloon doors swinging, you know, with a you trigger fingers 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: just ready to draw on your enemy. Yeah. 19 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: It turns out that although we in the United States 20 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: make a huge, huge deal out of the Wild West, 21 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:18,479 Speaker 1: it was actually a pretty short stretch of time and 22 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: way more chilled than the movies make it. 23 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,640 Speaker 2: See exactly. I don't know what maybe we could keep 24 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 2: this intro a little short because this one really you 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 2: just got to kind of hear it to believe it. 26 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,120 Speaker 2: So what do you say? We jump right in to 27 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 2: the wild West? Was actually pretty chill. 28 00:01:40,680 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. Let's start today's 29 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 1: episode by immediately traveling back in time and with a 30 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: fantastic SOUNDQ. There we go. That sets the mood. I'm ben, hey, doggy, 31 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: I'm knowing I'm gonna kill you. 32 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 3: Are you gonna kill you dead, rob your corpse and 33 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 3: kill your sister? 34 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 1: Are you gonna do that voice the whole time? 35 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 3: Yeah? And I really like this Anyo Moricone track you 36 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 3: got playing because we have to refer to the track 37 00:02:41,760 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 3: for fair use privileges. 38 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: That's true, Anyo Morcone one of the favorite instrumentalist composers 39 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 1: of both Noel, myself and our super producer Casey Pegram. 40 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: So yes, here we are in the wild West. Noel, 41 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: you were very character I just received a death threat. 42 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 2: Yep, that was that was That wasn't me. That was 43 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 2: my long lost golden panhandling cousin Jed. 44 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,600 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Jed throw tuttle brown right. 45 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 2: Actually that doesn't even work. I said my name in 46 00:03:15,840 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: the voice jig is up, but no. The thing about 47 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 2: the Morricone is that storied tune soundtracks of many a 48 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: Western spaghetti western has seen through the eyes of Italian cinema. 49 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: That really helped kind of paint a picture of the 50 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 2: wild West as this lawless time where someday it just 51 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: as soon shoots you TwixT the eyes is look at you. 52 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 1: Right, Yes, a time on the edge of the frontier 53 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: where in the closest thing to the law might be 54 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: a single sheriff and roving bands of wild criminals hold 55 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 1: entire regions under their sway or not right, because it 56 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:05,920 Speaker 1: turns out, friends and neighbors, ladies and gentlemen, that the 57 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: wild West was actually much more chill than fiction, film 58 00:04:12,360 --> 00:04:17,040 Speaker 1: and novels and even older documentaries would have us believe. 59 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: If you think about the wild West today and you're 60 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 1: just casually remembering stuff, you might think of movies like Tombstone. 61 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: You might think of The Man with No Name or 62 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:29,440 Speaker 1: something like that. 63 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: Or Wild Bunch back in Pod Good, the Bad, and 64 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 2: the Ugly Once upon a Time in America, any of 65 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:39,119 Speaker 2: these kind of portrayals. It's rife. It's a very rich 66 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 2: landscape and potential for some real interesting characters and action 67 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: to sell a story. But as it turns out, the 68 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: rumors have been, you know, largely exaggerated. 69 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the first rumors this, this is something 70 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,680 Speaker 1: I had learned about a little while ago. One of 71 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: the first rumors concern the length of time that we 72 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: would refer to as the Wild West, because for a 73 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: lot of people, there's an assumption that if there are 74 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,800 Speaker 1: so many stories about this, both completely fictional stories and 75 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: completely true stories, if there's such a wealth of lore, 76 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: then surely this went on for a long long time. However, 77 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: what we've learned is that it was not a very 78 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: long span of time at all. It was probably what 79 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: thirty years on the outside, if we're counting bookends and stuff. 80 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds about right. I found a piece in 81 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: The Independent Review, a journal of political economy, written by 82 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 2: Thomas J. Di Lorenzo, who refers to two schools of 83 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 2: thought when it comes to looking at the Wild West. 84 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: One is considered the frontier was violent with dashes in between. 85 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 2: This is a thing that was established by historian Roger McGrath. 86 00:05:56,440 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: And then there was the other position that the frontier 87 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 2: was not so violent. But Bruce Benson, who did a 88 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 2: thorough review of this idea that the West was violent. 89 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 2: He kind of discovered that a lot of historians just 90 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 2: assume that violence was pervasive, even more so than today. 91 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:17,600 Speaker 2: And then you know, theorize about what the likely causes 92 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 2: of this were. 93 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: What's that called ben confirmation biased. They were looking for 94 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: something that proved their pre existing opinion. That's the one 95 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:28,320 Speaker 1: and it is absolutely true. And I think this is 96 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: bonkers for a lot of people. If we were being 97 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 1: super generous with the time period, we would refer to, 98 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: let's say maybe eighteen fifties, late eighteen fifties to nineteen hundred. 99 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: It's what most historians would include on what's called the 100 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: frontier period. There's a great article via the fee Foundation 101 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 1: for Economic Education wherein author Larry Schweickart examines the non 102 00:06:56,000 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: existent Frontier bank robbery. You know, that's one of the 103 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 1: big stories of Westerns, right there's the great train robbery, 104 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: the great bank heist, rolling into town for all of 105 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: the gold. The problem is this almost never happened. If 106 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 1: we look at actual bank robberies in this time period, 107 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: they seem to be myths. Over roughly forty years across 108 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: fifteen states. This author and soon as co authors identified 109 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: three to four definite ones, and then in later correspondence 110 00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: to try to clarify the record, they found two or 111 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:42,680 Speaker 1: three others that were pointed out, and still the records clear. 112 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 1: Larry Schweickardt is arguing there are more bank robberies in 113 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: modern day Dayton, Ohio in one year than there were 114 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,280 Speaker 1: in the entire Old West in a decade. 115 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, not to mention that during that fifteen year period 116 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 2: in the late eighteen eighties, there were typically only an 117 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: average about three murders a year in towns that were 118 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 2: established in the Frontier like Abilene. Dodge City is a 119 00:08:08,080 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 2: famous one. You think about having quick draw matches in 120 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,120 Speaker 2: the street. Sure, not really a thing. You see those 121 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: re enacted. There's really no historical precedent for that. Or 122 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 2: cities like Caldwell and Ellsworth and Wichita, and those were 123 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: all in Kansas and had railroad stops, which is another 124 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 2: thing that gets kind of a bad wrap. These railroad 125 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: stop cities were hubs of scum and villainy. 126 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:35,360 Speaker 1: Right, yes, yes, And the Frontier was the place where 127 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 1: someone who had done some dirty deeds dirt cheap just 128 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: to follow up the reference in the East would travel 129 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: to start again, right, But these not only were these 130 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: murders very rare, and these bank heists relatively rare, it 131 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,600 Speaker 1: turns out that few people had guns it like at all, 132 00:08:56,080 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: you know, and like Dodge City, which Noel just mentioned, 133 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,199 Speaker 1: canmpletely banned the carrying of firearms, which doesn't really jibe 134 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: with the pro gun stance depicted in so many films. 135 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: Oh, not only that it was used by firearm manufacturers 136 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 2: as this kind of selling this image of the gun 137 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 2: totin root and tutin outlaw or lawman or a cowboy 138 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: or what have you. I found an article in the 139 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: journal Western Historical Quarterly called Quantifying the Wild West the 140 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: Problematic Statistics of Frontier Violence, written by Robert R. Disktruck, 141 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 2: and it starts out with a quote from Cormack McCarthy 142 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 2: from No Country for Old Men. Fabulous writer, fabulous book, 143 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 2: excellent film if you haven't seen it. But the quote 144 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 2: goes like this, some of the old time sheriffs wouldn't 145 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: even carry a firearm. A lot of folks find that 146 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 2: hard to believe, but it's a fact. And as it 147 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 2: turns out, it is a fact. 148 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: Right, And we're not arguing that there were no barrooms 149 00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 1: and fisticuffs that would be you know, that's going to 150 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: be common wherever you find large amounts of alcohol, and 151 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: statistically speaking, unattached young males, dudes without family or family structure, children, 152 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: or those kind of responsibilities will tend to as a 153 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: community have higher rates of those sorts of conflicts. But 154 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 1: they're not out shooting each other every day. 155 00:10:28,400 --> 00:10:31,560 Speaker 2: Willy nilly, No, it's in fact, Alenita Mullins kind of 156 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 2: referred to these as pockets of violence. A lot of 157 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 2: times they were in gold mining towns like the town 158 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:44,440 Speaker 2: depicted in the HBO show dead Wood. You have folks 159 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:47,720 Speaker 2: that were coming there in droves because gold was found 160 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 2: prospectors and there was a need to protect your claim 161 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 2: from so called claim jumpers. And then of course you 162 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 2: introduced alcohol and gambling. Of course there are going to 163 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 2: be some fisticus. But here here's the interesting part. It 164 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,199 Speaker 2: turns out that a lot of this stuff kind of 165 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 2: took care of itself through various independently organized law enforcement 166 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 2: agencies or groups. So with gold mining, for example, starting 167 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,200 Speaker 2: around eighteen forty eight, the miners kind of agreed with 168 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 2: each other to have covenants and compacts to keep them 169 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: from getting into situations like this. So you know, there 170 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,960 Speaker 2: was no government authority in these territories in California, apart 171 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 2: from the occasional military outpost. But the miners actually came 172 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 2: to some pretty good terms and as long as they 173 00:11:40,920 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: abided by the rules, they were able to defend their 174 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:47,040 Speaker 2: rights under these community compacts. 175 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: The individuals that would be representative of this were known 176 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:54,000 Speaker 1: as enforcement specialists, justices of the peace folks who would 177 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 1: arbitrate disputes right and they developed their own pretty robust 178 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: code of property and criminal law, and this worked quite well. 179 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:09,440 Speaker 1: There was relatively little violence and theft. The contractual system 180 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: effectively generated the experts argue cooperation rather than conflict, and 181 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: when conflict arose, it was effectively quelled through nonviolent means 182 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: most of the time. 183 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 2: It's right. This comes from that article in the Independent Review, 184 00:12:24,559 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 2: the Culture of Violence in the American West, Myth versus Reality. 185 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 2: It goes on to talk about this kind of thinking 186 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: extended to things like wagon trains, where the settlers actually 187 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 2: kind of had these caravans that actually got them to 188 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 2: where they were going, and protections of those and things 189 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: like cattle rustling. 190 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 1: Yeah, when government bureaucrats failed to effectively control cattle rustling, 191 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: the ranchers themselves established these cattlemen's associations. They hired private 192 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:02,319 Speaker 1: protection agencies, They even wrote their own constantutions. And some 193 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:07,560 Speaker 1: of these gunslingers, you know, did have sketchy past had 194 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: been associated with crime at the time, but they never 195 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: created any kind of large scale organized crime. There was 196 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,960 Speaker 1: never a cattle rustling mafia or anything. These were individuals 197 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: or small groups that the associations typically dealt with when 198 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: they rustled up the posse of their. 199 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 2: Own, that's right. And there were areas in parts of 200 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 2: Oklahoma and Arkansas on Indian land that were parts of 201 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 2: the Cherokee Nation where you know, there were bands of 202 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: outlaws that could seek refuge and find high outs in 203 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 2: these hills that had caves and hollers and the like, 204 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 2: and they were great places for these outlaw gangs to 205 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 2: hide out. But they weren't coming to town every day. 206 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:53,079 Speaker 2: And you know, murdering everybody in. 207 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: The streets right first, that's not even sustainable, you know. 208 00:13:57,080 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 2: And unless you're in Westworld and you can just do 209 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 2: it every day, repeat, it'll start over and over. 210 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: What a great show. The other part here that we 211 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 1: do need to emphasize. I'm really glad we're bringing this up, 212 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 1: is that one of the real, most genuine causes of 213 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 1: violence there in the West came from the US government's 214 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 1: policies toward the Indian populations on the plans, or Native 215 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 1: American populations. 216 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 2: And that was sort of a continuation of a lot 217 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: of the you know, wartime attitudes of the Civil War. Yeah, absolutely, 218 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 2: just kind of keeping things in almost like a police 219 00:14:36,720 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: state kind of situation. The Plains Indians were essentially the 220 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 2: victims of an extermination plan that was government sanctioned in 221 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: order to clear the way for the railroads. 222 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: Yes, clearing the way for the railroads and uniting the 223 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: East and West coast. So when we when we talk 224 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 1: about genuine viol in the American West, it's less a 225 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: romanticized story of train robberies or bank heist every day, 226 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: and it's much more story of the people who are 227 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: native to the land being persecuted by people who are 228 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 1: moving onto their land. 229 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,160 Speaker 2: And Thomas J. DeLorenzo makes some excellent points in this 230 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 2: Independent Review piece where he you know, he cites the 231 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,400 Speaker 2: fact that by the twentieth century, like around eight hundred 232 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 2: million dollars had been paid for Indian lands. And then 233 00:15:29,920 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 2: he makes this distinction between the idea of a militia 234 00:15:33,280 --> 00:15:35,480 Speaker 2: versus a standing army. I think this is really crucial. 235 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 2: I'm going to read this to you. He says, a 236 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 2: standing army. According to historians Terry Anderson and Fred McChesney, 237 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 2: quote creates a class of professional soldiers whose personal welfare 238 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 2: increases with warfare, even if fighting is a negative sum 239 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 2: act for the population as a whole. 240 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is a practice that we can see 241 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: in other parts of history, and it's it's an ortunate phenomenon. 242 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: If your primary skill is violence based, then you are 243 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 1: motivated to pursue violent means and violent ends. So if 244 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: you don't have any other skill to fall back on, 245 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: like you can't be a ferrier and work with horses, 246 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 1: or you can't you know, be a banker or a 247 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: school teacher or something like that, then you're going to 248 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 1: end up pursuing crime, criminal activity. And one example of 249 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: this in again very highly romanticized book on the West, 250 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,800 Speaker 1: would be Cormack McCarthy's Blood Meridian, where a lot of 251 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: soldiers who formerly fought in a militia become mercenaries pretty 252 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: much for hire by the US government. 253 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 2: Exactly, or like things like the Pinkertons, which was like 254 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,120 Speaker 2: this private army that eventually kind of became the tools 255 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 2: of big industrialists and you know, breaking strikes and just 256 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 2: just you know, doing horrible things for the purposes of 257 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 2: commerce and making money. And that was totally at play 258 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:07,320 Speaker 2: with this railroad situation. In eighteen sixty five, General William TACUMPSA. 259 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 2: Sherman was given control of the military District of the 260 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: Missouri and the purposes were to essentially wage a war 261 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 2: against the Plains Indians. And this was all in the 262 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: name of building that railroad, and you could justify that 263 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 2: it was for progress, but there's a quote from Sherman 264 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:31,920 Speaker 2: that says, we're not going to let a few thieving, 265 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:36,399 Speaker 2: ragged Indians check and stop the progress of the railroads. 266 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 2: And he wrote that to his friend Ulysses s. Grant. 267 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,719 Speaker 2: And politicians were making a whole lot of money as 268 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,960 Speaker 2: well on this expansion and building of the railroads. And 269 00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:52,359 Speaker 2: there's even the Credis Mobilier scandal where American politicians were 270 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 2: pocketing a lot of money because the railroads were being subsidized. 271 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: Right, yeah, Yeah, a very very dirty, corrupt way. What 272 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:05,280 Speaker 1: would become known as the credit Mobier scandal occurred in 273 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty seven, but the public didn't learn about it 274 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,000 Speaker 1: for several years. They learned about it in eighteen seventy two. 275 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:16,000 Speaker 1: Here's what happened. Thomas C. Durant, who was the vice 276 00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 1: president of the Union Pacific Railroad at the time, and 277 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: a fellow named George Francis Train formed Kredi Moobia in 278 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:28,080 Speaker 1: eighteen sixty four, and they based it on a pre 279 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: existing thing called the Pennsylvania Fiscal Agency. They were a 280 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 1: lone and contract company. This was a deliberate, no bones 281 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: about it, attempt to lie both to the government and 282 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:42,960 Speaker 1: to the public. Fraud, Yeah, that's a good word. That's 283 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:46,400 Speaker 1: a good use of it. Independent of Union Pacific Railroad 284 00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: and it's stakeholders, its executive board, and what they were 285 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 1: doing was over paying for things. And when you when 286 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 1: you use it for a subsidy or blake, you may 287 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: recall listeners based in the US, US those stories that 288 00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: come up every so often about corruption in the defense 289 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,040 Speaker 1: industry where someone says, what why did you pay thousands 290 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: of dollars for a toilet seat? Three hundred dollars for 291 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: hammer something like that through the railroad, they were overcharging 292 00:19:15,359 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 1: the American public. They would have much higher rates than usual, 293 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: and cash and nine million dollars in discounted stocks were 294 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 1: given as bribes to politicians, like straight up, point A 295 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: to point B. 296 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 2: Bribes like like I'll give you my vote if you 297 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,760 Speaker 2: give me shares in this or give me a payout. 298 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 1: Yeah, and these weren't like these weren't all you know, 299 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,920 Speaker 1: junior House representatives or under secretaries. This included the Vice president, 300 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:44,720 Speaker 1: the Secretary of the Treasury, you know, the people who 301 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:49,120 Speaker 1: are supposed to guard the public against this stuff. That's 302 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:53,640 Speaker 1: where a lot of the traceable violence occurs. And now, 303 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,879 Speaker 1: now the typical murder rate for a large city is 304 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:02,000 Speaker 1: going to be higher than typical frontier town. You could 305 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: argue methodology and say that might just be a function 306 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 1: of having a much higher population. I think that's valid, absolutely, 307 00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: But then we also run into a problem when we 308 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: try to get real world statistics from that time. The 309 00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: compilation of homicide rates during the Wild West is still 310 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 1: one of the longest running controversies among statisticians today and 311 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: probably will be for a long time. 312 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 2: Agreed, let's get back to the depiction of the Wild 313 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:32,920 Speaker 2: West in popular culture, in Hollywood, in literature. In that 314 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 2: piece from Western Historical Quarterly, the writer Robert R. Dykstra 315 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 2: talks about that very thing, and he says that there 316 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:47,959 Speaker 2: was a time where even academics fully believed in the 317 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 2: depiction of the Old West that Hollywood put out. There. 318 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,160 Speaker 2: There is a writer by the name of Vernon Perrington 319 00:20:56,640 --> 00:21:00,400 Speaker 2: who wrote this on the post Civil War on tier. 320 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 2: He said, all things were held cheap, and human life 321 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 2: the cheapest of all. Then we have another historian by 322 00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 2: the name of Harvey Wish who wrote that the conception 323 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:17,560 Speaker 2: of the Western gold rush towns as being bold and wicked, 324 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,880 Speaker 2: and that they were full of feuding bad men, with swift, 325 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 2: straight shooting marshals and that vigilante justice that we know 326 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 2: so well. But then Diichstra writes that that was kind 327 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:34,640 Speaker 2: of backed off from in the seventies and eighties when 328 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 2: the revised version of a popular textbook by Ray Billington 329 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:43,199 Speaker 2: was put out, and in that he said this he 330 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 2: kind of like toned down the rhetoric a little bit, 331 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 2: and he said that the shootout that's glorified in Western 332 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 2: stories and motion pictures was absolutely unheard of and that's 333 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 2: the shootout we talked about earlier where two men stand 334 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: in the street and do a quick draw kind of situation. 335 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: Right, And we should also take a second just to 336 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 1: depict the true stories behind some of those iconic individual figures. 337 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 1: Billy the Kid, right, one of the most well known, 338 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,119 Speaker 1: at least in terms of headlines, right, one of the 339 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: most well known criminals of this period. Billy the Kid 340 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: is only known to have killed eight people, each lost 341 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,760 Speaker 1: being a tragedy, of course, but that's a much lower 342 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 1: body count than a lot of films would have you believe. 343 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: Not to mention, I could probably count the big name 344 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 2: historical figures that were kind of dramatized, you know, on 345 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 2: two hands, Like I know Wild Bill, I know you 346 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 2: know Doc Holliday and Wyatt Er, and you know Calamity 347 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 2: Jane and the characters that were in Deadwood. 348 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: You know. 349 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,399 Speaker 2: That's that's about it. It's not like the kind of 350 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: just endless roster of criminals that you maybe even you 351 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 2: know think about today with like serial killers or any 352 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:00,520 Speaker 2: number of hardened criminals. 353 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,679 Speaker 1: And another thing that's interesting here is that Billy the 354 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: Kid died when he was twenty one estimated early twenties. 355 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 2: At the latest. It's romantic, you know, right. 356 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 1: It's romanticized, and we have to wonder does it do 357 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:20,000 Speaker 1: a disservice to the people who really lived in that time. 358 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: I find it actually sort of inspiring to learn that 359 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 1: the people who were living at this time were by 360 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:32,399 Speaker 1: and large trying to band together to survive, not to 361 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: kill each other, not to have some weird proto mad 362 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: max existence, but to get along as best they could, 363 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:42,760 Speaker 1: and to help their neighbors if their neighbors were in need. 364 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: And you know, they make a great point. I believe 365 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: it's Sdichstra who makes a great point saying that it's 366 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: difficult to compare. It may well just be impossible to 367 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: compare crime rates in these towns to crime rates in 368 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: the modern day, even if we to a small town 369 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:02,960 Speaker 1: that was the same size. Yeah, and that's exactly it. 370 00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,479 Speaker 1: You talk about the issue with population. For example, in 371 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: eighteen eighty in Dodge City, one person, one person out 372 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: of nine hundred and ninety six was killed. But as 373 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,439 Speaker 1: our pal Luri L. Dove writes for How Stuff Works, 374 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: one hundred. 375 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,400 Speaker 2: Years later in Miami, five hundred and fifteen people out 376 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 2: of one point five million people were killed. So, you know, 377 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,680 Speaker 2: although more people were murdered in Miami, if you look 378 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,000 Speaker 2: at the statistics, it had a lower rate of homicide 379 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 2: thirty two point seven percent compared to one hundred point 380 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,600 Speaker 2: four percent of Dodge City in the eighteen hundreds. 381 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: And we have to be careful with those statistics because 382 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: as counterintuitive as they may seem sometimes and as unromantic 383 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: as it is to deal with the facts, the facts 384 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: are ultimately going to be more rewarding. So we don't 385 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: need to have this sort of deaf the or lionization 386 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: of crime, right or criminals in what we call the 387 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: Old West and the Wild West as we know, it 388 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: was not some sort of desolate, sin riddled place. With 389 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: the quote LORI uses here that I love is where 390 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,240 Speaker 1: dead bodies piled up in the streets. It's it's not 391 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:30,280 Speaker 1: like that at all. And I again, I find it reassuring, 392 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: and I think that when we fire up the time machine, 393 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: you and I could actually go to the Wild West 394 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:39,440 Speaker 1: and have a pretty cool experience as long as we're 395 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 1: on our p's and q's. 396 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, like, just don't be like Chevy Chase 397 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:47,120 Speaker 2: in National Lampoon's Family Vacation, where you try to talk 398 00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:49,320 Speaker 2: trash to the fake bartender. Oh. 399 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:52,720 Speaker 1: I also want to add one thing I found. I 400 00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 1: don't know if you ran into this, but was very interesting, 401 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: sort of a tangent here, and I want to go 402 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,720 Speaker 1: too long on it, but cowboys, as we understand them, 403 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: are also largely an American myth. What we call a 404 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:09,200 Speaker 1: cowboys day is sort of a whitewashed version of vacueros, 405 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 1: which existed before any of this wild West stuff. And 406 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the slang we associate with cowboys comes 407 00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: from vacqueros, which is from what culture these would be 408 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: Mexican cattlemen. They were the original cowboys, and they're everything 409 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:25,919 Speaker 1: you would imagine. They got the big hat riding a 410 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,439 Speaker 1: horse herd in livestock, came up with term you know, 411 00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: we get from vaquero's. We get the terms bronco, lariat, stampede, 412 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: and so on, And this happened. They led this life 413 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: and held rodeos and stuff for centuries before cowboys existed. 414 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: Well how about that? 415 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: How about that? 416 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 2: Oh? 417 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,359 Speaker 1: Apparently I'm not one hundred percent on this little but 418 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 1: apparently the term vacquero later evolved into buccaroo. Well, I'll 419 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: be I know, right, oh man, slap you with feathers 420 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: and called me a chicken dinner. 421 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,399 Speaker 2: I will not thank you. 422 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 1: That would be inappropriate for a workplace. 423 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,280 Speaker 2: I think that about wraps up our topic for the day. 424 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:16,840 Speaker 2: But what do you say we take a second and 425 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 2: open up the old listener mail bag. 426 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,800 Speaker 1: That's an excellent idea. This will also be I believe, 427 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,879 Speaker 1: only the second time that we have dared to open 428 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: the listener mail bag. 429 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,080 Speaker 2: We have been being real greedy and hoarding these delightful 430 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 2: listener mails, but I think we should try and fit 431 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 2: this in a little more often. What do you think, Yeah, 432 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: let's see how it goes. 433 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 1: You want to do one, I'll do one. 434 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:44,240 Speaker 2: That sounds good. Our first listener mail comes from Alissa. Greetings. 435 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 2: Alyssa says, I'm a longtime fan of the Whole Stuff series. 436 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:50,159 Speaker 2: You and your entire entourage of podcast poets I like 437 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,080 Speaker 2: that are what have gotten me through countless hours and 438 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 2: miles as I trained for marathons, ultra marathons, and countless 439 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 2: other shorter races and therapy run I did not know 440 00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,159 Speaker 2: ultra marathons was a thing, but I'm gonna have to 441 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,440 Speaker 2: look into that. For that, I thank you and we 442 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,320 Speaker 2: thank you Alyssa for listening well. I think you were 443 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 2: all pretty perfect. I did find issue with one minor 444 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 2: detail in Ben Franklin's alphabet episode. While we do credit 445 00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 2: our good buddy Ben for inventing the bifocal, you mentioned 446 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: how it was one of those things that has not 447 00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:23,159 Speaker 2: yet really been improved upon. That was me that is 448 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 2: actually false. As an optician in the western New York area, 449 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,639 Speaker 2: I can tell you that the lined bifocal was quickly 450 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,239 Speaker 2: becoming obsolete. Improvements and technology have led to lenses that 451 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 2: progress from distance vision in the top of the lens 452 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 2: down to a reading prescription on the very bottom, with 453 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 2: varying distances for intermediate vision in between. These progressive adaptive lenses, 454 00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 2: or pals for those of us in the biz, work 455 00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 2: more the way the eye naturally works before the inevitable 456 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 2: help with accommodation for reading as necessary, and it does 457 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,600 Speaker 2: so without a visible line in the lens itself. So yeah, 458 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 2: I've seen those lenses that have that kind of like 459 00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:03,160 Speaker 2: lower part that's for the reading. Obviously, I don't wear glasses, 460 00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 2: so I was kind of going off the top of 461 00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 2: my head with that. But thank you so much for 462 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 2: schooling me. She goes on to say, pretty amazing. Maybe 463 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 2: this could be a topic for a future episode. Maybe 464 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 2: it's just the optical nerd in me. Keep up the 465 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 2: great work, Alyssa from Jamestown, New York. 466 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Alissa. We really appreciate the high praise 467 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: and I now I'm wondering how many people listening to 468 00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: the show are in the biz. If you are, let 469 00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: us know and best of luck with the did you 470 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: say running marathons? 471 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 2: Marathoning? And I stuff? 472 00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: We better make more episodes, noel so because marathons could 473 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: take a while. 474 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,920 Speaker 2: And you know what I say, Ben, there's no biz 475 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:41,760 Speaker 2: like the biz. 476 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,880 Speaker 1: So thank you, Alyssa. This next email comes to us 477 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: from mo f Mo says, Hi, guys, I'm new to 478 00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 1: the podcast. They just listened to your episode. When did 479 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: all caps become yelly? I very much enjoy the history 480 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,000 Speaker 1: lesson as well as modern viewpoints discussed. Hearing about the 481 00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,280 Speaker 1: removal of the caps like key by Google on their 482 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: keyboard and some calls for eliminating the button altogether. I 483 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,320 Speaker 1: wanted to bring in some personal perspective and also some 484 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 1: observations about all caps in our lives. I'm a pharmacy 485 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: technician for Osco drug While I can't speak for other 486 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: drug stores, I know that in every Osco I work at, 487 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,719 Speaker 1: the doctor's drug instructions known as the SIG are written 488 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: completely in all caps. My guess is that we want 489 00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: to impress upon the patient the gravity of following the 490 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 1: instructions to the tee. If I didn't have the caps 491 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 1: lot key, it would be mighty annoying to hold down 492 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,800 Speaker 1: the shift key while typing out every SIG. I also 493 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,920 Speaker 1: noticed that all caps is everywhere we go. On traffic 494 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: signage stop no, turn on red, etc. Which is always 495 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,479 Speaker 1: in all caps, to the signs for business names, and 496 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 1: even on our money. I would argue it's most important 497 00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:47,640 Speaker 1: the traffic and warning signs stay in all caps. Danger 498 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: high voltage doesn't have quite the same gravitas as danger 499 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: high voltage. While I agree that all caps can be 500 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 1: quite annoying online, I think they have a place in 501 00:30:56,960 --> 00:31:00,640 Speaker 1: other areas of our lives outside the Internet. Wait haha, 502 00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: there's life outside the interwebs. These are my thoughts. Thank 503 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: you for welcoming to share them. Keep up the great work, MO. 504 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,080 Speaker 1: That seems like a pretty pretty studeo observation. We also 505 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: had an engineer who wrote in on. 506 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: All casts, I know and I love this. I actually 507 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: just pulled it up right when you said that he 508 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 2: talks about. This is from Ted, just the idea of 509 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 2: pattern recognition. He says, some time ago, I was given 510 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 2: the following explanation, and it makes sense to me. When 511 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 2: we learn to read, we have to sound out each 512 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,280 Speaker 2: letter in a word, and then once we have the word, 513 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 2: we can attach the meaning. As we get proficient at reading, 514 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:34,640 Speaker 2: we no longer do this letter by letter, but rather 515 00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 2: we recognize the words more by the pattern the letter's form. 516 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 2: And this is me interjecting here. I could say the 517 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 2: same thing about reading music. You start to see the 518 00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 2: patterns and like whether it's at a space or a 519 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 2: line on the music staff, and you don't necessarily have 520 00:31:47,080 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 2: to really think as deep about it. You just recognize 521 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 2: it right away. 522 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: So Ted says, when we type in all caps, this 523 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,040 Speaker 1: pattern recognition by the brain is broken and we have 524 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,320 Speaker 1: to look at those individual letters to form the words. 525 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 1: And although we can still will do this quickly, it 526 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: slows us down and is more work for the brain. 527 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:06,480 Speaker 1: The extra work the brain is doing is what makes 528 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 1: it feel different, like we're being yelled at that's a 529 00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: pretty interesting argument there, Ted, and. 530 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:14,760 Speaker 2: He goes on to illustrate it with a bunch of 531 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 2: words where he keeps the first and last letter correct 532 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 2: but jumbles up the letters in the middle, and I 533 00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:22,560 Speaker 2: was shocked to realize that I could very easily read 534 00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 2: the whole sentence. 535 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, the human brain is capable of all sorts of 536 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: strange shenanigans and tricks. We want to thank you Ted, 537 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,560 Speaker 1: We want to thank you Mo, and you Alyssa. This 538 00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:36,560 Speaker 1: will conclude our listener mail, but not our show. 539 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 2: We would also like to thank all of your brains 540 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 2: and the brains of everyone listening, and we hope you 541 00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 2: will use your brains to write us an email at 542 00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,480 Speaker 2: Ridiculous at HowStuffWorks dot com, or shoot us a note 543 00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 2: on any of the social media out there, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, 544 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 2: what have you? Where we are Ridiculous History. 545 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: Also, of course, thanks to our super producer Casey Pegram 546 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 1: for saving the show, Thanks to our House of Works 547 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: author Lorie L. Dove, and thanks to Alex Williams for 548 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,479 Speaker 1: composing our soundtrack, which a lot of people have been 549 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: writing about. 550 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 2: It's true. We hope you'll join us next time when 551 00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 2: we ask the question what happened when people waged war 552 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: over eggs? 553 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:19,720 Speaker 1: Oh Man, Yeah, what's coming up? 554 00:33:19,840 --> 00:33:22,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, So come hang out then, and then thanks for 555 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 2: hanging out now for ridiculous history. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 556 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 557 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 2: to your favorite shows.