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Speaker 1: M h foot Force. If it doesn't work, you're just

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Speaker 1: not using enough. You're listening to Software Radio Special Operations,

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Speaker 1: military news and straight talk with the guys in the community.

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Speaker 1: Software Radio on Time, on Target. Very excited to have

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Speaker 1: Benedetta Argentieri back here in studio. It's been quite a while,

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Speaker 1: and this is the first time you're in the newer

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Speaker 1: setup of the studio. Yeah, it's very nice you were

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Speaker 1: in the Chelsea. This is the third time we've had

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Speaker 1: you on the show. Yeah, I believe so. And and

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Speaker 1: we're having Benny on for good reason. New film out

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Speaker 1: directed by you, I Am the Revolution, which is gonna

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Speaker 1: premiere November in New York City at Chelsea UH seven

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Speaker 1: thirty and you can check out tickets for that at

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Speaker 1: doc NYC dot net. It's going to be at Synopolis,

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Speaker 1: Chelsea Thursday. Nom I'll be there. You'll be there, and

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Speaker 1: of course you the director and the producers of the

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Speaker 1: film as well, right so, yeah, Well the crew is

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Speaker 1: going to be there, Oh, not all of it, all

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Speaker 1: of them, but most of the crew. Yeah. So so

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Speaker 1: the cinematographers who came with me to Syria and Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: they will be their second camera to the producers and

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Speaker 1: the editor the almost our So let's get into the

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Speaker 1: background of the film itself. I mean it follows three

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Speaker 1: women in the Middle East, and you know, their their

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Speaker 1: struggle for equality, which is very much different than the

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Speaker 1: struggle for equality here in America or Europe. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a lot more drastic of course, the laws against them.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, the idea was to challenge the media mainstream

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Speaker 1: narrative about women in the Middle East that you often

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Speaker 1: see them, you know, veiled, crying maybe in like refugee

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Speaker 1: camps with the dozens of children around them, all dirty,

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Speaker 1: and then traveling you know, for the past four years,

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Speaker 1: for five years in the area, I noticed that that

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Speaker 1: wasn't really the whole truth. I mean, this is part

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Speaker 1: of reality, but there is also another side of the

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Speaker 1: co in which was like strong woman trying you know,

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Speaker 1: to fight back and and struggle for gender equality in

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Speaker 1: the region in the midst of war. So you know,

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Speaker 1: this is how we got to think about if the film.

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Speaker 1: And then of course the fun party is to go

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Speaker 1: shoot and go on the ground and and there we

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Speaker 1: found we followed three women, as you said, one in Syria,

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Speaker 1: which is in Rajaba. So the Kurdish area of Syria

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Speaker 1: and raj Da flat is the main commander for the

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Speaker 1: Raka operations. So she led sixty thou and woman to

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Speaker 1: conquer the capital of the so called Islamic State. And

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Speaker 1: now she's finishing up the job in Syria, where you know,

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Speaker 1: you have a little like tasks around the country in

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Speaker 1: which is is still is still there, like one of

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Speaker 1: the last one is there a zor and that the

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Speaker 1: second woman is an Iraqi woman and she sorry. She

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Speaker 1: left Iraq in nine ninety two to escape the regime

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Speaker 1: of Saddam Hussein. She moved to Canada and she finished

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Speaker 1: the studies there. She did n emy in architecture. She

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Speaker 1: started working, but there was something really off and she

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Speaker 1: kind of missed home and she wanted to do something

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Speaker 1: with the country. So in two thousand and two, while

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Speaker 1: you know, in America there were talks about invading Iraq,

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Speaker 1: she started receiving colds so from bag that's saying that

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Speaker 1: women working up down the streets and then sold to

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Speaker 1: human traffickers or prostitution rings and so on. So she

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Speaker 1: decided to you know, write down the constitution of of

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Speaker 1: her organization and and fled back on June a few

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Speaker 1: months after the invasion, and so she started working over

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Speaker 1: there and she set up like now she has like

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Speaker 1: ten underground shelter underground because they key laws do not

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Speaker 1: shield these these shelters for women escaping violence, of thinking

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Speaker 1: that the woman should be always with a male relative.

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Speaker 1: And so she's fighting also that part and in the

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Speaker 1: meantime she receives a woman escaping violence. Honor killing. Honor

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Speaker 1: killing is that practice very still much on in Iraq,

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Speaker 1: in which you know, the male relatives are have to

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Speaker 1: protect the honor of the family and if they cut

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Speaker 1: the woman with the compromise situation, or even if they

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Speaker 1: are violated, raped by whoever, or sometimes even just a

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Speaker 1: rumor is enough. Sometimes a rumor is enough exactly. So

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Speaker 1: they had to restore the hunter. And how do they

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Speaker 1: do that. They basically threw them from a cliff and

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Speaker 1: then cut off the left palm and put it on

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Speaker 1: the house and hang it on the house, on the

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Speaker 1: door of the house where in the family lives, in

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Speaker 1: order to say it's that is how you restore the honor.

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Speaker 1: It's crazy, I know, but still now hundreds of bodies

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Speaker 1: are unclaimed in the morgues, you know, in Baghdad and

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Speaker 1: stuff that that have that kind of signature of honor

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Speaker 1: killing signature. The work of Viennar. Her name is or Muhammad.

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Speaker 1: It's very important because it's not just a hub that

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Speaker 1: provides services to this woman, but the idea is to

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Speaker 1: empower them. So through the organization they have classes, they

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Speaker 1: have you know, like English classes, literacy, literacy courses and

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Speaker 1: those kinds of things, and and then for them to

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Speaker 1: be ready and help other women in their same conditions.

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Speaker 1: And then the third one is Saliga Far. She is

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Speaker 1: a politician, first woman spoke person of the Solidarity Party

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Speaker 1: of Afghanistan Hambastagi, the only secular party in Afghanistan, and

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Speaker 1: she goes around I think, you know, the Afghanistan part

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Speaker 1: is one that surprised me the most, not just for

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Speaker 1: the conditions, but for the for the condition and how

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Speaker 1: hard this woman need to fight back. You know you

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Speaker 1: I am sorry to say, but America went in Afghanistan

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Speaker 1: claiming they would liberate woman. Today in two thousand and seventeen,

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Speaker 1: eighteen seventeen years later, you know of women actually experienced

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Speaker 1: violence in their lifetime and just fourteen percent one four

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Speaker 1: can actually read them right, So it's a very It's

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Speaker 1: a crazy, crazy situation also because you know, you have

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Speaker 1: to fight with a very kind of patriarchal society, very

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Speaker 1: narrow minded part and anyway, and Sally, it goes around

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Speaker 1: Afghanistan even where you know, the government doesn't you know,

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Speaker 1: isn't able to reach and help women and not just

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Speaker 1: women but everyone basically too. You know from that they

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Speaker 1: want water courses, schools. It is a very very difficult situation.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you know in your interests that you know

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Speaker 1: it's a very different kind of struggle. But you also

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Speaker 1: have to think that that kind of struggle Western and

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Speaker 1: European woman they already went through that because you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't this year is a hundred years the Suffragetts

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Speaker 1: in which you know, they they wanted the voting rights

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Speaker 1: for women. So it's like a kind of a path

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's more than that even, I mean, we

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Speaker 1: we went through that, not a hundred years ago. We

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Speaker 1: went through you know, five hundred years ago, not five

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Speaker 1: hundred I'm sorry, Jack, like Afghanistan, Like when was the

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Speaker 1: last time you know, the Western world was in that

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Speaker 1: sort of state. Actually, for I'm talking about women's right.

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Speaker 1: You know, I gave the now in Afghanistan woman can vote.

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Speaker 1: Like up to eight years ago, in a lot of

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Speaker 1: countries women couldn't vote. So up until recently, we had

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Speaker 1: things like it was actually legal to beat your wife

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Speaker 1: a hundred years ago in America exactly. And we're also

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Speaker 1: going to get into later on Saudi Arabia. But the

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Speaker 1: recent right for women to drive in Saudi Arabia, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I feel that that is a little bit of pr

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Speaker 1: PR propaganda for the West in order to musquerade a

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Speaker 1: different kind of regime, because you know, I was reading

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Speaker 1: actually yesterday about woman who drove, who dared to drove

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Speaker 1: around Saudi Arabia suddenly disappeared. So I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan, for restance, it's not a question what the

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Speaker 1: law says is a question. Like let's say a woman

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Speaker 1: in Afghanistan starts driving tomorrow in Kabbo. She can't. I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying she can't, but she will be so much

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Speaker 1: arrousted from all the drivers around that she will think

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Speaker 1: twice point of the year, why you do it? Why

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Speaker 1: even do it make a good Instagram video? Though? Right?

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Speaker 1: A woman driving like like the Saudi Arabia, it's like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: these women are taking their veils off and driving cars.

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Speaker 1: You know, I decided to our security team in Afghanistan.

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Speaker 1: You know, if you're tired, don't worry. I can drive,

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Speaker 1: because I drove in Syria and they were like no no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: no no, this is not possible here. You can't. Literally

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Speaker 1: you can't. So how did you come in contact with

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Speaker 1: these three particular women? Um So? I met yan Or

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Speaker 1: Mohammed in two thousand and fifteen when she was in

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Speaker 1: New York to speak at a security council at the

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Speaker 1: u N and I was fascinated straight away in our

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Speaker 1: you know, talking interview, actually wrote an article about her,

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Speaker 1: and then you know, the about her work. She described

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Speaker 1: these shelters as she described, you know, the work that

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Speaker 1: they do in Baghdad. And so this is how I

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Speaker 1: met her and rujdaf a lot. I knew about her

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Speaker 1: because you know, um traveling in the region for work

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Speaker 1: as a journal for as a journalist, that I knew

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Speaker 1: about her. And then also Joey Lawrence that the person

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Speaker 1: knew had on the podcast stayed with her for photographer, yes,

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Speaker 1: for a photographer, amazing photographer, and he talked to me

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Speaker 1: about her and saying she was the real deal. And

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Speaker 1: he was right. She is the real deal. She's very shy.

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Speaker 1: Nobody really knows about her background so much for reasons

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Speaker 1: that we can get into. But um, and so you know,

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Speaker 1: I was fascinated by this person who was on the

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Speaker 1: forefront and fighting isis, but gave so little interviews or

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Speaker 1: never really talked about her life and what she's doing.

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Speaker 1: So this is why I selected her and the third one. Actually,

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Speaker 1: the Kurds told me about Ambassadi first and they said,

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Speaker 1: you know, we know about this woman, about Saliga far,

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Speaker 1: you should look into her. So we started skype skype

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Speaker 1: conversations to understand, you know, what really she was doing,

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Speaker 1: because I tend to prep all my subjects before, of course,

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Speaker 1: and to understand who they are and if they're real,

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Speaker 1: if it's propaganda and whatever. And she is amazing, she's incredible,

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Speaker 1: and she has no fear whatsoever. She's ready to sacrifice

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Speaker 1: her personal life and she does sacrifice her personal life

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Speaker 1: every day. And and so we left. I also assume

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Speaker 1: being on film and being a part of a documentary,

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Speaker 1: there is not They don't see it as like a

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Speaker 1: glamorous thing. I want to become famous or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I think if anything, they'd prefer to go under the radar.

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Speaker 1: So where any of the women were walctant to be

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Speaker 1: a part of a film, I think that there is

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Speaker 1: a security issue that we shouldn't, you know, overlook, because

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Speaker 1: it's very iportant, especially for someone like yan R or

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Speaker 1: Silly that they're not technically at war or although they

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Speaker 1: are yours organization to said before it was like a

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Speaker 1: semi clandestine organization because it's illegal to operate to run

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Speaker 1: winning shelters in Iraq. Yes, exactly, but they also have

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Speaker 1: other projects and stuff, So there I wouldn't say, I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't call it a reluctancy. And that's start in the

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Speaker 1: fact that they didn't want to be on camera, but

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Speaker 1: also you have to bear in money. It's very different

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Speaker 1: to be on camera for a documentary than for you know,

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Speaker 1: a news piece. Because we stayed with them for a

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Speaker 1: long time. That means waking up every day together, eating

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Speaker 1: every meal together, you know, be filmed all the times,

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Speaker 1: and you can see the differences when you start filming

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Speaker 1: somebody and then at the end of the shooting like

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Speaker 1: two or three weeks later, depends because they have to

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Speaker 1: get used of the camera. So this you know, it

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Speaker 1: was an important part of my job is to make

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Speaker 1: sure that they were at easy. You know, they weren't

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Speaker 1: saying stuff just for the camera. And one trick is

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Speaker 1: to always have the camera out so they don't distinct

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Speaker 1: anymore when it is recording and when is not. But

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Speaker 1: I think that another reluctant, you know, and the people

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Speaker 1: around the minor characters of the film, so the woman

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Speaker 1: that are helping, you know, the protagonists, and the community

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Speaker 1: woman that they created around themselves, they were a little

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Speaker 1: bit wary and scared. You know. It's like, especially in Iraq,

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Speaker 1: there were women who escaped their families and stuff, and

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Speaker 1: they said to me, I can't be on camera because

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Speaker 1: if my parents or my family see me, family sees me,

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Speaker 1: then you know they will look for me and they

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Speaker 1: will try to kill me. So you know, you have

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Speaker 1: to be very very careful when you should, like you know,

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Speaker 1: delicate and sensitive subjects like them. The thing too, I

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Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about, was, um, you know, this

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Speaker 1: is three countries, three different languages. It's a it's a

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Speaker 1: kind of a cross cultural piece that from my perspective,

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Speaker 1: maybe I'm wrong, but I mean I don't see that

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Speaker 1: sort of work attempted. It's it's very ambitious in that sense.

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Speaker 1: Indeed it is. You know, we'll see what the critics

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Speaker 1: say about the film. But initially it was Iraq, Syria

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Speaker 1: and Smalia. But then you know, the more I talked

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Speaker 1: about it, you know, of course it took me about

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Speaker 1: more than two years to do finish, right, you know,

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Speaker 1: the documentary, which is actually quite fast for a documentary,

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Speaker 1: and especially also with the language barrier the translations. I

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Speaker 1: mean you're translating, as he said, I believe what three

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Speaker 1: different languages a right more actually because you have arm

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Speaker 1: Arabic Kurdish, two different kinds of Kurdish. Then you have

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Speaker 1: passed to your Daddy, which are different language is and

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Speaker 1: then well you have English is so English, so it's

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Speaker 1: like five different languages. So did you have to bring

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Speaker 1: in several translators for the editing? Yes, yes, for the

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Speaker 1: but the editing is you know, I think that your

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Speaker 1: question was more related on you know, like why these

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Speaker 1: three country kind of thing? Well, I mean, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: could answer that question, but also just it just strikes

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Speaker 1: me as something that's not often done because of the

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Speaker 1: language barrier um and the cultural barrier um. No, it's

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Speaker 1: a very ambitious project also because you know, having a

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Speaker 1: film crew in these three countries that are conflict areas.

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Speaker 1: So with all the problem the problems that you face

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Speaker 1: when you travel, and you know very well when you

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Speaker 1: travel in those regions, you have to be careful, you

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Speaker 1: have to prepare yourself. You know, there is a whole

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Speaker 1: you know, tip sheet that you should follow for you

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Speaker 1: not just for your own protection, but for the group protection.

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Speaker 1: So that was you know, usually documentary they follow one person.

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Speaker 1: This is how documentaries are done what I've tried to

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Speaker 1: do in a way, it's a bridge between the journalistic

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Speaker 1: world and the documentary and cinema because the three the

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Speaker 1: number three is usually when you go to like journalism

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Speaker 1: school or even in your work, your editor even novels

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Speaker 1: and things at the beginning of middle and an end,

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Speaker 1: you know, story editor would always ask you, you know,

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Speaker 1: who are your sources and and if you have three

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Speaker 1: people saying the same thing, that means you can write

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Speaker 1: about it. So this is the idea behind the three woman.

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Speaker 1: The three woman is three d very different perspective because

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Speaker 1: you know, the characters are very different. So one is

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Speaker 1: a general while the commander of general military. The second

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Speaker 1: one is an activist and the third one is a politician.

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Speaker 1: So is how do you can you see? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's like there are different ways is to do the

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Speaker 1: same thing, to achieve try to achieve the same things,

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Speaker 1: which is gender equality, feminist revolution in those countries. And

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Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting to challenge the idea of this,

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Speaker 1: you know, poor woman in these three countries that have

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Speaker 1: so many similarities in so many different ways, what does

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Speaker 1: it mean? You know, it's like you have US intervention

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Speaker 1: in the three of them, you have eyes and terrorism

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Speaker 1: in the three all of three. You know you have

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Speaker 1: If you look at the ranking of international ranking about

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Speaker 1: you know, what are the worst places to be a woman?

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Speaker 1: Iraxia and Afghanistan are there and they are always on

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Speaker 1: the top list. So this is in Pakistan probably way

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Speaker 1: up there. Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Saudi Arabia not a

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Speaker 1: man is still there, but not as that they should be. Now.

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Speaker 1: India as reached number one lately because of the attacks,

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Speaker 1: because of the rape, because of many different things, people

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Speaker 1: are becoming more aware and get more press coverage. Absolutely, yes,

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Speaker 1: for Pakistan, you hear about that same Wahabis active Islam

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Speaker 1: that you were talking about earlier when getting acids their

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Speaker 1: own faces, and you know, yeah, it's all coming from

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Speaker 1: you know, the same Somalia, you have some African countries.

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Speaker 1: It's not that everything's great, you know, but this was

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Speaker 1: the thought of it. Now, you know, it is a

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Speaker 1: very ambitious project for that reason, because we traveled in

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Speaker 1: these three countries, and also of course these challenges came

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Speaker 1: up in the editing as well. You know, I don't

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Speaker 1: want to give it too much away, but you know,

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Speaker 1: the story intertwined and with one another, and it's about feminist,

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Speaker 1: feminist revolution and no matter where it is, you know, Rosia, Afghanistan,

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Speaker 1: that's what the film is about. I think some of

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Speaker 1: the footage itself, even beyond the story of these three people,

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Speaker 1: there's the footage that, particularly out of afghan A standards Syria,

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Speaker 1: is just mind boggling. It looks like you're on an

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Speaker 1: alien planet. I think people will be pretty interested to

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Speaker 1: see that. Yeah, also because it's like you don't see

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Speaker 1: that kind of footage, you know. It's like there is

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Speaker 1: a scene in which Slide which is one of my

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Speaker 1: personal favorite scene, as she is talking to a group

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Speaker 1: of like dozens women and they're all wearing perka and

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Speaker 1: they want They're saying, you know, our sons can go

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Speaker 1: to school, but our daughters know, we want them to

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Speaker 1: go to school. We know the school is you know,

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Speaker 1: the first step to get equality, to have a freer life,

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Speaker 1: you know, and the men prevent them to go to school.

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Speaker 1: And it's very interesting, at least from my point of

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Speaker 1: view to see you know, from both um from the

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Speaker 1: like a plot point of view, and also from an

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Speaker 1: image wise. It's something that you don't see very often

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Speaker 1: at all. You know. I was going to ask you

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Speaker 1: about this, and it's a little bit off topic, but

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Speaker 1: because you're mentioning the burka and stuff like that, I'm

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Speaker 1: wondering your take on how the US has handled um

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Speaker 1: Muslim immigration and equality as opposed to Europe. You know,

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Speaker 1: in America here in New York City see you see

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Speaker 1: women in the streets wearing Burker's and it's a but

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Speaker 1: you have. I have absolutely when I lived in Philadelphia

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Speaker 1: see it all the time. But there's been times in

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Speaker 1: the subway I've seen it. Yes, I've never seen a

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Speaker 1: woman wearing and when I was in Michigan I saw

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Speaker 1: it a lot. But you know, I have I've seen

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Speaker 1: like the heijib the job. Yeah, but I've seen I've

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Speaker 1: seen full burka definitely a handful of times in New

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Speaker 1: York City. I've seen people with their kids. And what

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Speaker 1: do you mean by b is the blue? Is the

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Speaker 1: blue one? Everything? You can everything. Saudi Arabia they were

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Speaker 1: the big black. But that's another thing that's not the

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Speaker 1: women wearing. But it's not the same when you seeing

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Speaker 1: about where you could barely see anything the eyes and

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Speaker 1: I know there's there's typically different traditional you know as fire.

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Speaker 1: But my point being more than a job, you're not

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Speaker 1: seeing the woman's face. I see. I've seen it many times.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually surprised you guys, haven't you know I've seen Okay,

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Speaker 1: so when you say when you said to me, burke,

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Speaker 1: I've never seen a burka is a typical light blue

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Speaker 1: and it's worth just in Afghanistan usually because it's the

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Speaker 1: black baya or the ny Cub. Yes, I saw a

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Speaker 1: woman in Ni Cub, I saw a woman in nic Cub.

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Speaker 1: In London, I saw a woman in Nick. But you know,

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Speaker 1: this is a small minority that wear that. My point being,

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Speaker 1: though in America you have the freedom to do so,

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Speaker 1: there's been some debate over whether you can wear one

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Speaker 1: in the driver's license photo UM and state by state

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Speaker 1: they've had different laws on this. Certain states have tried

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Speaker 1: to ban women wearing them because there have been women

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Speaker 1: involved in criminality who you know in a licensed photo,

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Speaker 1: you can't tell who they are at all. So I

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Speaker 1: understand that debate. However, we're not having the same debate

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Speaker 1: as in parts of Europe where they're talking about literally

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Speaker 1: banning the burka. I'm wondering, just from a feminist perspective, like,

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Speaker 1: how do you think this type of thing should be handled?

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Speaker 1: Are you okay with the country saying we want to

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Speaker 1: ban the burka? This is a very literary question that

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Speaker 1: you're asking me. So I think you know, the handling

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Speaker 1: of immigration in the US it's better than other places.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have to try to compromise on several

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Speaker 1: different issues. Personally, I rather I don't like those nika hijab, Well,

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Speaker 1: the hijab whatever, it doesn't really matter to me because

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Speaker 1: it's just really the hair, and it's sure, and there's

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Speaker 1: women I've talked to, you know, that worked with me

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Speaker 1: when I was over it. Serious at other places that

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Speaker 1: do wear the job and by no means if you

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Speaker 1: talk to them, are they are they what people would

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Speaker 1: consider the stereotypical traditional Muslim women. Some of them drink,

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Speaker 1: some of them had sex, you know primarily and goodness no, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and yet that you know, and I've spoken to these

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Speaker 1: women and some of them just say, like I believe

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Speaker 1: in the idea of modesty, and you know, I just

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Speaker 1: I like this certain thing. But do I follow everything

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Speaker 1: in the Koran? Absolutely not. So I actually see their

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Speaker 1: job is like a very different thing than you know,

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Speaker 1: covering the entire face. It's like nuns. You know, nuns,

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Speaker 1: they just cover their hair in a way. It's not

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Speaker 1: really the same thing, but you know, the concept is

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Speaker 1: very similar. Also, you know, in Christian culture until really recently,

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Speaker 1: meaning years ago, you and even now if you go

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Speaker 1: to southern Italy, they they they actually wear a black veil,

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Speaker 1: you know, to go to church. So you know, every

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Speaker 1: every single religion has a different kind of Funny that

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Speaker 1: you mentioned that because like I see like the memes

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Speaker 1: on social media about you know, showing like side by

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Speaker 1: side and like traditional Islamic culture and it's a woman

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Speaker 1: wearing the burka traditional Italian culture, and it's a woman

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Speaker 1: wearing like a bikini, and it's like, no, that's not

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Speaker 1: really traditional Italian propaganda. If you have to, like if

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Speaker 1: you go back and like actually read the history of

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Speaker 1: Italy and of Europe, that's not traditionally dress. Italy is

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Speaker 1: a place that had until really recently, meaning forty years ago,

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Speaker 1: what they're called the wedlock, you know, for someone got raped,

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Speaker 1: you know, they would force her to marry the thunder. So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's like, we shouldn't think of

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Speaker 1: ourselves as too much forward compared to some of the places,

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Speaker 1: because you know, traditional traditions come from a very kind

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Speaker 1: of segregated perspective, especially between men and women. But we've

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Speaker 1: evolved relatively quickly compared to these other cultures. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's this is off topic from the feminist stuff,

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Speaker 1: but I was actually watching on YouTube. I don't even

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Speaker 1: remember how I came across it, but it's just crazy

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Speaker 1: to me to think, like in my grandparents time, there

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Speaker 1: was a time you would turn on the TV and

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Speaker 1: it was like Amos and Andy and stuff like that,

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Speaker 1: these white people in black face imitating black actors because

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Speaker 1: Broadway didn't want black actors because it would like make

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Speaker 1: white people in the theater uncomfortable to see a black

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Speaker 1: person acting, and it's it is insane to think like

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Speaker 1: this was not that long ago. No, it wasn't. And

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Speaker 1: you know, and if you're think in the sixties, you know,

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Speaker 1: all the civil rights movement and you know, black people

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Speaker 1: wanting to go to university, to school and stuff. You know,

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Speaker 1: all these you know, like the protesters, the ones that

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Speaker 1: wanted to segregated America. They're still here around well and live.

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Speaker 1: You know, so Russell barks not that long ago. You know,

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Speaker 1: people like that. So we should be very careful about

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Speaker 1: when we we judge out of culture in that sense,

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Speaker 1: because we have our own fault. Of course, it's work

428
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,120
Speaker 1: in progress. So to go back to your question, you know,

429
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: it's like for me, I wish, you know, it would

430
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 1: be an individual choice to where those garments, but unfortunately

431
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:13,399
Speaker 1: often is not. That is my problem with Nika Baya

432
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: and that, you know, it's like if it is a

433
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: woman choice and thinking, you know, I want to be this, this, this,

434
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: and that. I don't know why that's a different question.

435
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: In the Western world. I mean, there's this big debate

436
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: I think, or not even a debate, but there's this

437
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:35,879
Speaker 1: theme within feminism, that it's institutional, it's a social construct. Um,

438
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: the patriarchy itself being a social construct. I mean, aren't

439
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 1: these women essentially victims of this social construct and that

440
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:47,399
Speaker 1: they've been generationally conditioned to where this sort of uh

441
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 1: um whatever kind of garment. It is, absolutely, but I

442
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 1: can tell you the opposite argument of this. You know,

443
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: like when you see children, literally children dressed up like

444
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm talking about girls, but you know, dressed

445
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,680
Speaker 1: up as beauty page and a beauty queen and you know,

446
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: exploiting their bodies in a way. You know, it's the

447
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,879
Speaker 1: other side of it. You have the opposite that's not

448
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: very common. But but I mean, like America, you have

449
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: like beauty pudgeants for like five six and it's glamorized.

450
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: You know this like Honey Boo Boo show that was

451
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,280
Speaker 1: like a giant It's like, that's like a creepy subculture

452
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 1: where all these like middle aged guys are in the

453
00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 1: audience like breathing heavy. It's horrible. Yeah, it is terrible,

454
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: and I actually do think you know, it would be

455
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 1: a whole another topic, but like the over sexualization of

456
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: children in America, it definitely is a problem. Like there's

457
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: these pop stars who come out there like our fourteen

458
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 1: and they have them barely wearing anything, you know, and

459
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: then people are waiting for them to become eighteen. It

460
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: is very creepy. It's very strange. There is a very

461
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: kind of This is one of the first documentary is

462
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: so here in New York. Let me the name is

463
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: keeping Now and it's this journalist to just add a daughter,

464
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: and she started looking at the media and the social

465
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: construct around you know, girls, and what they should look like,

466
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: they how they should you know, present themselves, how they

467
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:22,360
Speaker 1: should in generally teret oh my god, trying to conform

468
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: the way they look. And this put a lot of

469
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: pressures pressure on girls. And this is why you have

470
00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 1: anoretia blimia, because they don't like themselves, so they don't think,

471
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,800
Speaker 1: you know, they're beautiful enough to have a success. And

472
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:39,520
Speaker 1: I think it's a very very well done documentary that

473
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: analyzes how the media pushes the stereotype of how a

474
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: woman looks like. It's also worth mentioning though, that you know,

475
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: a lot of girls get that or young women get

476
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 1: that impression from the fashion industry and from the media

477
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: and from periodicals and media that is not necessarily produced

478
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: by heterosexual men. That that size zero model is not

479
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: it's not something that the average man is into. Um.

480
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: So it's this odd um, this odd position that you know,

481
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,760
Speaker 1: women are are like given this, uh, this media that

482
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,200
Speaker 1: says that this is what you're supposed to look like.

483
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: But that's not even something that I think most men

484
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: find desirable. I don't know about that. I think it

485
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: depends and it it depends on a lot of different things.

486
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: But nonetheless, this is the idea that you're giving to

487
00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: younger generations that they should look like I'm making it

488
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: up gel otherwise that they're not worth it. You know,

489
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: it's interesting though we're living in a weird time where

490
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,800
Speaker 1: that look is glamorized. And then also because of like

491
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,000
Speaker 1: the Kim Kardashian Nicki Minaj, like extreme plastic surgery of

492
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: getting a giant s that's also glamorized, and they're both

493
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:57,880
Speaker 1: completely unrealistic for the average women, average woman, and uh,

494
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 1: you know, it's kind of just bizarre that that, you know,

495
00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: the average natural woman this is. You know, you just

496
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: have these two extremes of the woman who's like eighty

497
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: pounds for the woman like Kim Kardashian has blatantly done,

498
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:12,959
Speaker 1: you know, massive amounts of plastic surgery too. Especially your

499
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: sister doesn't even look like you know, who's a white

500
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,640
Speaker 1: woman who looks more like her sister, who is um,

501
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: you know, Armenian and uh and the father of kard well,

502
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: Kardashian was Armenian. Either way, the the younger sister has

503
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: two white parents, you know what I mean, So she

504
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 1: shouldn't look like her sister, but she's gotten so much

505
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: plastic surgery that they almost look identical. Like It's just,

506
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: you know, it's pretty crazy. I know we're going like

507
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,040
Speaker 1: way off topic here. Also I don't know the Kardashian

508
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: that well, so I don't know what are you watching? Yeah, exactly. Um.

509
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: You know what else I wanted to ask you about, um,

510
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: besides this film is you recently did a Ted talk

511
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: in Milan and Milan and I wanted to hear all

512
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 1: about that experience and what you actually spoke about because

513
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: it was in Italian, correct, Yeah, it was, It's a

514
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 1: Ted act and in it was a great opportunity, honestly,

515
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,280
Speaker 1: And I talked about the film, you know, and more

516
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,480
Speaker 1: or less what we covered in fifteen minutes I mean,

517
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:14,560
Speaker 1: I'm sure that most of the listeners are familiar with

518
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 1: what the Ted talk is. But you know, you have

519
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: a four month and you have to stay within that

520
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes and seventeen eighteen top you know, yeah, you can.

521
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: You have a couple of minutes that you can go on.

522
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure. How long was mine, Probably sixteen

523
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: so and it was in this theater in the middle

524
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: of Milan, and one thousand, five hundred and fifty people participated.

525
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,000
Speaker 1: I never talked in front of so many people in

526
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: my life. I closed the day, which was great, Which

527
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: was great. Yeah, it was very nice, although you know,

528
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,239
Speaker 1: waiting around the whole day for you to go up

529
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: on stage it's not the greatest. Especially you know, people

530
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 1: who know at not realize about me. But I really

531
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: do not like to be in the spotlight so much.

532
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 1: This is why I like radio, and this is why

533
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,760
Speaker 1: I like coming and hang out with you guys, because

534
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: we're here just chatting amongst us and everything. You say.

535
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: Now you are the star of the family, Jack, it's

536
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: not me so anyway. That said before, it's like a

537
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 1: shy person's medium though, because I've spoken front of people

538
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: and extremely uncomfortable, but I am comfortable doing this. I

539
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: know what you mean exactly. So you know, I had

540
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 1: to prepare a lot. I had one coach and with

541
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,880
Speaker 1: whom I did rehearsal, you know, because sometimes people go

542
00:33:38,960 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: on stage and they freeze, and you don't want to happen.

543
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: You don't want that to happen, you know, because you

544
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: have this opportunity and that's it. It's not that you

545
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: can remake it and stuff and and so we worked

546
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: a lot and at the end, you know, at the

547
00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:57,600
Speaker 1: end of the day, I woke up and say, I

548
00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: walked up on stage and I kind of black. I

549
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 1: don't remember anything. I know that I talked and I spoke,

550
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,000
Speaker 1: and I can and now I'm gonna say a very

551
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,680
Speaker 1: cute thing because the only time I stumbled, actually twice,

552
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: but the first one is because I saw my mom

553
00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, I got all very excited

554
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 1: about it, so I couldn't find my words anymore, and

555
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 1: then I'd reconcentrate. But you know, at the end, it

556
00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 1: was it was great. It was a great experience, a

557
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: lot of different emotions. But funny enough, when I finished

558
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 1: the talk about this three amazing woman about the film

559
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,080
Speaker 1: and everything else. This really young guy walks up to me,

560
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,360
Speaker 1: around to me and say, you know, I want to

561
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 1: talk to you, and I said, yes, sure, it's like

562
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,720
Speaker 1: nineteen was nineteen And he said, you know, I'm having

563
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: this huge debate with my sister about woman staying in

564
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:54,040
Speaker 1: the kitchen. And I was like, what do you mean

565
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,160
Speaker 1: Is it so bad for a woman to be in

566
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: the kitchen? And I was puzzled by the question for

567
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 1: such a young man, you know, and I was like, well,

568
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,239
Speaker 1: it's not a bad thing, per se, it's you know,

569
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: it's but it has to be again, their own choice.

570
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:13,480
Speaker 1: You know. I don't have anything you know against housewives

571
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 1: of a woman, you know that to take care of

572
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 1: the house and the family and stuff, but it has

573
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:21,880
Speaker 1: to be their own choice. Sometimes not most of the times.

574
00:35:21,920 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: Now it's not their own choice. So you know, it's

575
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,879
Speaker 1: again it's a difficult topic. Some women want to wear

576
00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:35,920
Speaker 1: pearls and vacuum Benny, you you actually, I don't know.

577
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:39,160
Speaker 1: It's funny. Jack and I off air had a whole

578
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 1: discussion about the stereotype of like the men who's you know,

579
00:35:44,560 --> 00:35:47,000
Speaker 1: the single father who's taking care of their kid and

580
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: doesn't have a job. And you know, for some reason,

581
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 1: it is this whole double standard. If you're a man

582
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,439
Speaker 1: with a kid who doesn't work and maybe your wife

583
00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,240
Speaker 1: works or something, you're looked at as like a lazy bone,

584
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: and it is. He was like, I'm comfortable with it.

585
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: I'll stay at home, take care of the kids. You

586
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: work on documentary. Yeah, we could do that, but you

587
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,959
Speaker 1: have too vacuum better otherwise it doesn't work. The other

588
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: other interesting, I think it's a stereotype. Um, there's there's

589
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,240
Speaker 1: like this image people have in their mind about women

590
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 1: in the military, particularly these women now who are increasingly

591
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: wanting to go into special operations units. And I was

592
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: reading an article about a young woman I'm sorry, I

593
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: can't remember her name. Saw the picture like tatted up.

594
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: She looks like a pirate. And I mean that as

595
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,120
Speaker 1: a compliment. She looks like a bad She has like

596
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,880
Speaker 1: pirate tattoos on her chest because she's wearing like a

597
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,239
Speaker 1: bikini in this photo of her and her husband has

598
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:43,319
Speaker 1: all these tattoos and everything. And I think a lot

599
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: of Americans have this vision in their mind of like

600
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: of like the g I Jane, who like she's gonna

601
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: be soft and feminine and cute and um, but also

602
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: be strong and empower to blah blah blah. And I'm like, no, no, no.

603
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: When women who go into like become rangers and navies,

604
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 1: seals and green berets and in this case is a

605
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: mar Sock Marine Special Operations, they're gonna be like tough,

606
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: badass women. They're not going to be cute. See you know,

607
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: you know this typical version of feminists, like they're gonna

608
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:16,360
Speaker 1: look more and act more like guys, like the behavior

609
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: we associate with men, because it's that's the environment. Yeah.

610
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,360
Speaker 1: And also you know it's like it's if I would

611
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: have loved not that that's actually untrue. But you know,

612
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,880
Speaker 1: if you put me into ranger school right now, I

613
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 1: think I'll fail after two hours maybe maybe one. Can

614
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: you do pull up spending? No? I can't. Okay, you won't.

615
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: You won't make it past the BT test. I'm sorry. Yeah,

616
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: I can run, but not that much. Also, am a

617
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 1: certain age now, so I cannot compete with twenty year

618
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: or something guys and girls. But you know, yes, you know,

619
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: I think you're right. And sometimes you know, woman who

620
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: went who want to go into ranger school. Let's have

621
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,239
Speaker 1: schools or whatever. It's like they are really mindset on that,

622
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:07,040
Speaker 1: and I'm sure that you know, physically, they're very prepared

623
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,399
Speaker 1: and if they're not, they would not make it through

624
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 1: the p T task. Not to mention, I think this

625
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,280
Speaker 1: is a discussion that's been had on the podcast before.

626
00:38:14,320 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: But aren't there certain you know, branches of Special Operations

627
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 1: where it's kind of like they look the other way

628
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,359
Speaker 1: if you're on steroids and that type of thing. And

629
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: there's probably there's probably guys in SF i'd say across

630
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 1: the board they kind of look the other way. So

631
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,919
Speaker 1: if you have a woman in Special Operations who's taking steroids,

632
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: in a way, as crazy as it sounds, they're almost

633
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 1: slightly transitioning to becoming a man because you're putting male

634
00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: hormones in yourself. That's why, you know, not to be

635
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: graphic here, but like the women's you know, guaturius and

636
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:46,800
Speaker 1: large and stuff like that when they're on steroids, because

637
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: they're becoming more manly. So, I mean, if you put

638
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: a woman on steroids that looks like you know, Christine

639
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 1: chris Cyborg from UFCO, well, the military does not put

640
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,840
Speaker 1: women on steroids, but if they choose to be and

641
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,399
Speaker 1: they choose to go through Ander school. I don't think

642
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: that they want to become a Mormon. I think they

643
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:06,560
Speaker 1: won't just want to become stronger and compete better. But

644
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: but in effect they do become more manly because they

645
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: start growing more hair. I mean, it's they're putting male

646
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: hormones in their system. I also don't know. I've never

647
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: used steroids. I mean there's clearly I mean there's there's

648
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: uh tons of guys using it, um, and part of

649
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:33,120
Speaker 1: it is um. I'm more it's not so much operationally honest,

650
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: to just be completely frank about, I think it has

651
00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: more to do with vanity than that there's an operational necessity.

652
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 1: I mean, I went through it. I was never on

653
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 1: steroids because we're smaller than I am. I mean, I

654
00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: think it's just safe to say if you're a woman

655
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: on steroids, would be easier to get through ranges. Yeah, yeah,

656
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure. I'm sure. It also depends on the specifics

657
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: on what type of steroids you're using. Uh. And that's

658
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: what we've said on the pot or I've said on

659
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: the podcast before. It's like, I think that the military

660
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: should do more research arch into it and figure out

661
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: what are like the medically safe, responsible ways to use

662
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: steroids and maybe look at that like institutionalizing it rather

663
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:11,920
Speaker 1: than have on all these people do it illegally, and

664
00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:13,919
Speaker 1: some people really fuck themselves up. I mean they sucked

665
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 1: their bodies up because they're doing there. Um, it's not

666
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 1: medically supervised. And here's the thing. If you're talking about

667
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: having transgenders in the military, that involves putting female or

668
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 1: male hormones into your system, which is the exact same

669
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: thing as steroids, but done for a completely different reason.

670
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 1: Why do you have this fascination with woman on steroid

671
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,400
Speaker 1: can because you know the reason being if you're a

672
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: woman going through a ranger school, going through buds, I

673
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 1: would think it would be a huge edge over a

674
00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:45,480
Speaker 1: natural woman. It's just something I've thought about. I don't know.

675
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: I think it depends on which kind of woman. I mean,

676
00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: take my sister. My sister, she's very strong, she's way

677
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: taller than I am. She did all her life kickboxing

678
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: and stuff. I don't think you know that she would

679
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,359
Speaker 1: have at the time now because now she had two

680
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: children and everything, so much need of steroid. I love

681
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: how this just goes off as a recording, probably a

682
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 1: probably some fire geral thing. But anyway, you keep talking

683
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: at all, right, so anyway, it doesn't matter the woman,

684
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,760
Speaker 1: you know that if but if she did take stars

685
00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:23,200
Speaker 1: on top of that, she would have been at edge.

686
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: That's why you know, powerlifters and that type of thing.

687
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: And and you know, if if you talk about you

688
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: know we've had on the podcast before, Christian Beck, you know,

689
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,720
Speaker 1: Christian Beck going through buds compared to the average transgender man, woman,

690
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,680
Speaker 1: however you want to say it, Christian Beck, however you

691
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,120
Speaker 1: want to label this person is a massive person and

692
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: is far stronger than you know myself or I don't know.

693
00:41:46,239 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I honestly don't really care that much about

694
00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 1: the whole transgender thing in general. It's like point zero

695
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 1: three percent of the population. The amount of them who

696
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 1: are then going to go into the military is like

697
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: so miniscule. I mean, you know, I don't know. It's

698
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 1: it's not something i'd stress out so much. Yeah, now

699
00:42:03,880 --> 00:42:05,400
Speaker 1: I hear you. It's if it's been addressed on the

700
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,439
Speaker 1: podcast before. Um okay, oh you know what I also

701
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: want to ask you before we get into Saudi Arabia,

702
00:42:10,480 --> 00:42:12,840
Speaker 1: As you mentioned a comic book he's working on. I

703
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: had no idea that you're doing a spoiler here. Yes,

704
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: I'm writing a graphic novel with and if you get

705
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: you into comic books or no, I know, not comic books,

706
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 1: graphic novel. It's similar. I go to the comic book story,

707
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: so fancy with her graphic novel. I mean it's a

708
00:42:30,640 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: known fiction. You know, it's a little bit different. And

709
00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,759
Speaker 1: you know, actually I'm my first graphic novel that I

710
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,719
Speaker 1: read it was Mouse. I don't know if you ever

711
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: read it Mouse. I'm not a comic book guy, so no, Jack, Jack,

712
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: I haven't read it. I remember it's a very beautiful

713
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:54,120
Speaker 1: it's about World War two and you know, the Holocaust

714
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 1: specifically and anyway, and I always thought it was a

715
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: great medium to tell his story or you know, to

716
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,560
Speaker 1: even a younger kind of generation. So the story um

717
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:11,799
Speaker 1: that we are writing downs of Islamta. She is a

718
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 1: Moroccan woman who in a decided that she really wanted

719
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 1: to go and study fashion design in London. But her

720
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 1: parents from Morocco, they said to her, listen, the only

721
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: way for you to go to London is to actually

722
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 1: get married. Okay, fine, so she goes online. You know,

723
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:35,279
Speaker 1: they're kind of you know, Tinder or whatever. It's called

724
00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 1: Muslim dot net, which is um enough for dating a

725
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: marriage within the Muslim world. And she meets online this

726
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: guy called Hmmed originally Afghani but a British British citizen.

727
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 1: So I don't want to give too much away, but

728
00:43:55,560 --> 00:44:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, uh, they get married and they and Hammed

729
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 1: said to her, listen, why don't we go for our

730
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: honeymoon in Turkey. This was June July, and she said, yeah, sure,

731
00:44:09,040 --> 00:44:12,520
Speaker 1: why not? You know, So they arrive in gadzen Tab,

732
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: which is at the border within between Syria and and

733
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 1: the Turkey, and there, without a word of explanation, he

734
00:44:22,320 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: basically put her into a safe house of ISIS. So

735
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:30,839
Speaker 1: this nineteen year old girl she finds herself the first

736
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 1: time that she goes out from Morocco, she finds in

737
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:36,600
Speaker 1: the Isis kind of safe housing gadzen Tab. At the time,

738
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: really Isis wasn't that big, so they you know, nobody

739
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 1: really knew about Isaac and especially her. So from that

740
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,920
Speaker 1: pe moment on they found they started. She started this

741
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: journey within the Islamic sade and where she just tried

742
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:57,840
Speaker 1: to survive. And it's a good and his story so

743
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:02,520
Speaker 1: you know, she survives, she escaped, aped, and now she's

744
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: back in Ushta. But it's it's about this who who's

745
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: doing the illustration? Me? Really, I was like, I didn't

746
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 1: know you're an ellust No, no, no no, I'm not an illustrator.

747
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: I'm working with the Italian woman. She's based between Nino mainly,

748
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: and she's great. She's the same one who did the

749
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: flyer for our film. So she's a great illustrator. She's

750
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,360
Speaker 1: she's young, she's extremely talented, and I'm very excited to

751
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:35,640
Speaker 1: be working with her. Honestly, I would assume this is

752
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:38,279
Speaker 1: entirely different than any other medium you've done, and that

753
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: it's like I wouldn't know the first thing about how

754
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,640
Speaker 1: to get a comic book distributed where people are gonna

755
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: be able to buy it. You know, they're like, it's

756
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,719
Speaker 1: probably a tough thing to get into. Yeah, it's like

757
00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,279
Speaker 1: it's mainly like any other books in a way, but

758
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: you have like selected publishers that you'll just with the

759
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 1: graphic novels and that kind of things, especially nonfiction. Um,

760
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 1: it's a very this is the first time I'm doing

761
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,319
Speaker 1: something like that. It's not that different from a documentary

762
00:46:05,360 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 1: because now we're we are writing the script, so on

763
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:13,680
Speaker 1: one side you have to imagine the drawings, the illustrations

764
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: and then make it combine combine those with text. So

765
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: it's not that different, but still a little bit. And

766
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:26,240
Speaker 1: the Italian and overall European comic book industry is totally

767
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,439
Speaker 1: different than in the United States, where like we put

768
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,680
Speaker 1: new comic books out every week. In Italy you have

769
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:33,479
Speaker 1: an artist who just works on his one comic book,

770
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:37,120
Speaker 1: like all year, his one hundred page graphic novel, and

771
00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: then it comes out, so it's like every every book

772
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:41,799
Speaker 1: they do has to be like a Grand Slam. So

773
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,440
Speaker 1: I don't know as much as you of comic books,

774
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:50,360
Speaker 1: but because comic is slightly different, I know what I

775
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,840
Speaker 1: read for the longest time, which was the Aboli Julia,

776
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:56,960
Speaker 1: those kind of weekly right, yeah, yeah, those are all weekly.

777
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 1: And then you have graphic novels. So graphic novel I

778
00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:04,799
Speaker 1: think kind of they in France they do a lot

779
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: of graphics and different novels, and I think it started

780
00:47:07,560 --> 00:47:12,840
Speaker 1: like with Again Mouse was one of the first graphic

781
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:15,560
Speaker 1: novel in that sense that tried to tell a very

782
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: serious story like the Holocaust and illustrate and it's very interesting.

783
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: Check it out because it is a very very well

784
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: done work. Obviously he is like super famous out out

785
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: or and everything. But it's just very different. But just

786
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: to give an example, you know, it's like in Italy

787
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 1: what they think is a successful graphic novel when it's sold,

788
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:46,320
Speaker 1: because you know, numbers are extremely different. Three copy, that's crazy,

789
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: It is crazy. This is to get back to the cost.

790
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: But also because you have such a smuller you know,

791
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: market that everything is slightly different. I was reading somewhere

792
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:04,280
Speaker 1: that Batman comes out every week, uh sells about thirty

793
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,400
Speaker 1: in the United State, and that's considered a small number,

794
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,879
Speaker 1: like for for a big comic book like that. Will

795
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:15,799
Speaker 1: this be distributed in the US or no? Now we're

796
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: starting in Italy and then we'll see, okay, because I

797
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:19,840
Speaker 1: think it would be so cool if you know, I

798
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: walk over to Midtown Comics with Jack and there's your comic.

799
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,879
Speaker 1: I would love to see that. Maybe not comic keeps

800
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:32,760
Speaker 1: staying comic graphic. Come on, words are important translating into English.

801
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: I mean that one. I don't think it would be

802
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: too hard. Oh well, let's proceed stuff, you know. Um,

803
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:41,879
Speaker 1: all right. The other thing that I wanted to get

804
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: into was what's going on in Saudi Arabia Now. President

805
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: Urdawan earlier today I believe, or it may have been

806
00:48:48,719 --> 00:48:52,239
Speaker 1: yesterday of Turkey said that the murder of the journalist

807
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,000
Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia, Jamal could Uh. I'm not saying his

808
00:48:55,080 --> 00:49:00,560
Speaker 1: name right by the way, Kasai Kai. Either way, everybody

809
00:49:00,560 --> 00:49:03,280
Speaker 1: knows who I'm talking about, the journalists in Saudi Arabia.

810
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 1: He's claiming that it was playing days in advance. Um.

811
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 1: And we're trying to figure out how we're gonna handle

812
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 1: this because as much as we read these horrible things

813
00:49:12,880 --> 00:49:15,719
Speaker 1: coming out of Saudi Arabia, they are our allies in

814
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:19,240
Speaker 1: the US, and it's it's a very strange dynamic because

815
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:21,440
Speaker 1: a lot of the things that we're fighting where at

816
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,320
Speaker 1: least claiming to be fighting for an Iraq in Afghanistan,

817
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: are the exact same things going on legally in Saudi Arabia,

818
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:30,160
Speaker 1: as we talked about before with driving things like that,

819
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 1: do you do you want to start start? Um? Well, yeah,

820
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 1: I mean this whole thing. I wrote an article about

821
00:49:37,520 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: it yesterday. But it's like this crazy, like slow role

822
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: reality television show. They're turning it into where it's like

823
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 1: every day a little new piece. There's a new episode,

824
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: there's a new piece of micro content, you get another

825
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,480
Speaker 1: little piece of the mystery, the little story. It's it's

826
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:55,600
Speaker 1: so weird, and I mean, I think the government of

827
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: Turkeys doing that initially, like they're playing this out as

828
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: long as they can, and I think they're gonna Like

829
00:50:00,880 --> 00:50:03,480
Speaker 1: yesterday the news was that a member of the Saudi

830
00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: embassy actually wore this guy's clothes and left and walked

831
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: around Istanbul to make it look on security cameras as

832
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,120
Speaker 1: if the journalist had left, and you know, he he

833
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,840
Speaker 1: that he had left the embassy. Of course, there's a

834
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 1: really amateurish attempt at a ruse um. But it's like

835
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,759
Speaker 1: there every day there's another little piece of information you get.

836
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,439
Speaker 1: So I think that this is absolutely and I think

837
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: that Argon is doing that on purpose, also because I

838
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,800
Speaker 1: think that he's trying to put leverage on Saudi Arabia.

839
00:50:33,120 --> 00:50:35,319
Speaker 1: So I think we need to make a couple of

840
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: step backs about this because Turkey, Um, do you remember,

841
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how long it was, but six seven

842
00:50:43,160 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: eight months ago there was Saudi Arabia and Qatar entering

843
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: into huge dispute about money, yeah, and about other things

844
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 1: about you know, foreign policy and stuff, and Turkey and

845
00:50:55,400 --> 00:51:00,200
Speaker 1: Qatar are very much allied. So what's happening and now

846
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,959
Speaker 1: is an attempt from Earth Agon who is licking out

847
00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: all the information because this is you know, the Turkish

848
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 1: government doing it. And I was like, you know, thinking

849
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,000
Speaker 1: about this, you know, why is he doing this? And

850
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: then it's they sometimes the reasons are way more simpler,

851
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,000
Speaker 1: but just to put leverage on Saudi Arabia, we can

852
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:26,439
Speaker 1: the regime and the kingdom and in order to get

853
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 1: something else out of it, and is masterminding the whole things.

854
00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 1: And I think that, you know, he's doing it very well.

855
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:40,120
Speaker 1: This doesn't take away the horrifying murder of a journalist,

856
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, in Turkey, not that the the hirony of

857
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:48,239
Speaker 1: all of this, you know, is that Turkey doesn't have

858
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:53,440
Speaker 1: free press. Turkey, you know, has been jailing journalist for

859
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: over two years and like shut down all day free

860
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 1: press and everything. And now that Earth again is lecturing

861
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia on how you should do stuff. It's I

862
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: found it quite ironic, honestly, And nobody has been like

863
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:11,760
Speaker 1: talking about this, although like you know, some critics within Turkey.

864
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 1: They say, yeah, but there is a huge difference between

865
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:18,640
Speaker 1: a jailing journalist and murdering them. And I'm like, is

866
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: there really Yeah, of course, you know, killing somebody, but

867
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 1: it's like in terms of free press, no, there isn't

868
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: much journalist. I mean Turkey kills people all the time.

869
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: The Turkish government, I mean, they've widely suspected to have

870
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 1: set off bombs in public places. I mean they're extremely

871
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:39,800
Speaker 1: repressive regime. Urdle Wan consolidating power over the last couple

872
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:43,000
Speaker 1: of years to essentially set himself up as dictator for life.

873
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 1: Or our friend Sam Faddus once described Urdlewan or no, no, no,

874
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,960
Speaker 1: it wasn't Sam Fattus, it was it was our friend

875
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 1: Zagros up in the mountains, who's a member of the

876
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,320
Speaker 1: p k K. But I mentioned this to Sam Faddus,

877
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: what what the what the party had told me? But anyway,

878
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 1: this guy's agro said that other one has neo ottomani

879
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: ambitions And when I mentioned that, the Fattasty just started laughing.

880
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 1: It's like, that's probably the most accurate consummary of it. Yeah, absolutely,

881
00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: I mean Turkey is playing its own game. But also

882
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:20,439
Speaker 1: I think that there isn't my view, there is never

883
00:53:20,640 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 1: one explanation for something. I'm also sure sure I think

884
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: that if we want to go down into the conspiracy

885
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:34,399
Speaker 1: road NBS. You know it's been MBS is um yes,

886
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:38,760
Speaker 1: as in you know, the prince who is the minister

887
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: of Defense and everything did the purge of his own

888
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:47,959
Speaker 1: family and arrested a bunch of them for corruption. He said.

889
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:52,279
Speaker 1: And it's been said that Casagi the journalist, was very

890
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: close to some of those members and and this is

891
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:59,680
Speaker 1: why he started to be very critical. Not that it

892
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:03,120
Speaker 1: was before, of course it was, but about this all

893
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:07,160
Speaker 1: managing of the new way that the kingdom is going.

894
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 1: And and I feel that somehow they've been trying to

895
00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: frame NBS to you know, give him a warning about

896
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,560
Speaker 1: what was going on. What is sure now that all

897
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: these like restricted team, how do you say, like all

898
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 1: the people working with him, his assistance, distance and aids

899
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:32,719
Speaker 1: that all been fired. So it's coming like is now

900
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:36,279
Speaker 1: all by himself. But it's a great way to isolate him.

901
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,480
Speaker 1: The palace cup, Yeah, could one. I don't know about that,

902
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:42,080
Speaker 1: but you had mentioned to me too that the reason

903
00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 1: why Turkey may have it out for uh for Saudi

904
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:49,120
Speaker 1: Arabia plays into the Syrian Democratic Forces in North Syria

905
00:54:49,440 --> 00:54:52,840
Speaker 1: or Northern Syria, because Saudi Arabia is part of the

906
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:57,960
Speaker 1: coalition that makes up Operation Inherent Resolve. Yes, And somebody

907
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 1: was pointing it out to me and couldn't find really

908
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:05,839
Speaker 1: evidence of it, not yet at least that you know um.

909
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,840
Speaker 1: Around the time the cassoccial that disappearance. At first on

910
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:13,800
Speaker 1: October two, there were a lot of you know, articles

911
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: about Saudi Arabia giving to the US one million dollars.

912
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember that. But then it

913
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,840
Speaker 1: was explained to me by sources that that one hundred

914
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,200
Speaker 1: million dollars is not for the US or for trade

915
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: agreements or whatever. It is part of the efforts of

916
00:55:32,239 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: the coalition. So it was something that the Saudi um

917
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: were supposed to give to the US, who then turn

918
00:55:41,480 --> 00:55:44,799
Speaker 1: that money towards the Syrian Democratic Forces. Of course, the

919
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 1: Serian Democratic Forces the biggest part of the Syran the SDF.

920
00:55:48,960 --> 00:55:52,160
Speaker 1: There are Kurdish fighters, and that amount of money in

921
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:57,240
Speaker 1: their hands scare a lot, hear the down and should

922
00:55:57,239 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: be you know, I think that this is could be

923
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:03,480
Speaker 1: an other way to look at this issue and why

924
00:56:04,520 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 1: Urgon is so adamant about you know, he's criticism. Let's

925
00:56:10,040 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: just say the list towards Saudi Arabia. Yeah, I mean

926
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 1: it's it's one of these complicated geopolitical situations. I mean,

927
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,960
Speaker 1: probably everything going on between Saudi Arabian Iran plays into it,

928
00:56:21,120 --> 00:56:24,560
Speaker 1: and everything going on in Yemen, which we talked about

929
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:28,839
Speaker 1: on the last podcast, where you have uh Cutter on

930
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:30,920
Speaker 1: one side and then you have Saudi Arabia and the

931
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,000
Speaker 1: UAE on the other. It's there's a lot of pieces

932
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 1: that play into it. But by the way, do you

933
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,280
Speaker 1: know if the embargo is still going on for Cutter

934
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:44,400
Speaker 1: because they placed him under they placed the Cutter under embargo?

935
00:56:44,880 --> 00:56:50,200
Speaker 1: Who is there? Oh? Really? And I'm not sure? Um,

936
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,279
Speaker 1: I I have to suspect because this whole thing is

937
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,200
Speaker 1: like so sloppy and over the top that they probably

938
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: didn't intend to kill him when he came in that day.

939
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I probably believe that. I'm not that I

940
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 1: know for a fact that he came in and they

941
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,479
Speaker 1: probably tried to intimidate him and probably some of those

942
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:13,680
Speaker 1: idiots got out of hand and overdid it and they

943
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:17,040
Speaker 1: ended up killing them. Yes, but how come there was

944
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:20,600
Speaker 1: the doctor as well and I don't think that team,

945
00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 1: you know there was and not the doctor. How do

946
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: you call it the doctor? He's okay, he was some

947
00:57:26,120 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 1: sort of a doctor. I don't think he was a corner,

948
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,480
Speaker 1: but he was also somebody he does like setting up

949
00:57:31,520 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 1: field hospitals. I mean, I understand what you're saying. I

950
00:57:34,440 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 1: think that sometimes intelligence operations are run very badly, and

951
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: you know about them because they're badly run, and so

952
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 1: something goes really wrong. But I don't know, I don't know.

953
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: I think in another way, maybe they claimed Arabia claims

954
00:57:51,840 --> 00:57:55,680
Speaker 1: that he died on a fift fist fight, but you see,

955
00:57:55,720 --> 00:57:59,160
Speaker 1: I mean the guy was like fifty eight sixties something,

956
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: And how can how can an operator choke somebody to

957
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:08,120
Speaker 1: death and do not realize that is actually strangling that Well,

958
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: that's a good question, and that goes back to uh

959
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:15,920
Speaker 1: the case that um and Molly were those two seals

960
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 1: UH allegedly murdered UH Sergeant Melgar green Beret there, and

961
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:25,840
Speaker 1: one of them is a UFC fighter, former UFC fighter,

962
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:27,960
Speaker 1: and I have the same question, I mean, how can

963
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 1: you be choking, especially if you're a professional UFC fighter

964
00:58:31,760 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 1: mixed martial arts fighter. You get someone in a rear

965
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:37,440
Speaker 1: naked choke to choke the person out until they pass out.

966
00:58:37,480 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 1: It can happen fairly quickly, but then they continuously choked

967
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: them while they're passed out until they die. It's hard

968
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:48,160
Speaker 1: for me to believe that happens on accident. I don't know.

969
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,840
Speaker 1: I don't have that kind of skills, so so do

970
00:58:50,920 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 1: not look at me. But I have to imagine that

971
00:58:53,640 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 1: there must be some kind of training in which you

972
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:59,520
Speaker 1: are you know, what is the limit in which is

973
00:58:59,560 --> 00:59:03,120
Speaker 1: Streuss somebody else. You have just completely let your emotions

974
00:59:03,200 --> 00:59:05,400
Speaker 1: take hold and you're in some sort of a panic.

975
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 1: I mean, the person actually passes out and goes limp,

976
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: and for you to just not realize that at all

977
00:59:12,520 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 1: and continue to choke them out for another couple of minutes,

978
00:59:15,880 --> 00:59:18,880
Speaker 1: it just kind of defies belief at a certain point. Exactly.

979
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:20,919
Speaker 1: This is what I'm trying to say, you know how

980
00:59:21,680 --> 00:59:25,800
Speaker 1: and these things, you know, the official quote unquote official

981
00:59:25,960 --> 00:59:30,720
Speaker 1: version that keeps on changing every day, not just not

982
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 1: just from Turkey side, but even from Saudi Arabian side.

983
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:40,400
Speaker 1: I mean, it's so unbelievable. But yeah, they're floating out

984
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,320
Speaker 1: lie after lie, just hoping one of them is going

985
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 1: to stick and then they'll be able to just like

986
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: no comment at the death. But every lie keeps getting exposed,

987
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 1: so they have to change their story and go to

988
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: the next lie. It's like, man, this is like this

989
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 1: is a circus. It's for real. And Jack, I know

990
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: you also wanted to get into this article before we

991
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 1: wrap things up there. The Army stimied its own study

992
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:04,160
Speaker 1: of the Iraq War. This is from the Wall Street Journal,

993
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:07,920
Speaker 1: came out yesterday, written by Michael Gordon. Yeah, this is

994
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: an interesting article I was just reading today and it's

995
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: basically about how the Pentagon drafted this report. And it's

996
01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,320
Speaker 1: sort of like the Pentagon Papers where they wanted to

997
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: do like a full blown historical review of the Vietnam

998
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,080
Speaker 1: War in that case. Um, in this case, they wrote something.

999
01:00:26,200 --> 01:00:30,880
Speaker 1: It's a page document about the Iraq War from two

1000
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:33,600
Speaker 1: thousand and three, I think, right up to like two

1001
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,360
Speaker 1: thousand nine or two thousand and eight, something like that.

1002
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:41,919
Speaker 1: And um, they had like teams of experts pouring over

1003
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:45,880
Speaker 1: documents and interviewing people and all sorts of stuff. And

1004
01:00:45,920 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: now they've, um, they've been dragging their feet on actually

1005
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,880
Speaker 1: publishing the study because it makes some generals look pretty

1006
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: bad and it could tarnish their reputations. UM. It's pretty incredible. UM.

1007
01:00:58,640 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 1: And I just want to look over some of the

1008
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 1: key findings that are because apparently the Wall Street Journal

1009
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 1: they probably got a um elite copy of the report

1010
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 1: or a leaked summary of it when they wrote this article.

1011
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 1: Some of the key findings of it, UM the need

1012
01:01:14,480 --> 01:01:16,840
Speaker 1: for more troops. At no point during the Iraq warded

1013
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:20,280
Speaker 1: commanders have enough troops to simultaneously defeat the Sunni insurgency

1014
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:24,160
Speaker 1: and Iranian backed Shiite militias. So it's interesting it's saying

1015
01:01:24,200 --> 01:01:27,200
Speaker 1: that we never deployed the proper amount of troops there.

1016
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: That commanders in theater perpetually thought the war is gonna

1017
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:34,840
Speaker 1: be over in eighteen months throughout the entire campaign. UM,

1018
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,200
Speaker 1: So we never sent enough troops over there. UM. The

1019
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:41,600
Speaker 1: failure to deter Iran in Syria. I ran in Syria,

1020
01:01:41,640 --> 01:01:45,800
Speaker 1: gave sanctuary and support to Shiite and Sunni militants, respectively,

1021
01:01:46,120 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: and the US never developed an effective strategy to stop this.

1022
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 1: That's true that we didn't do very many counter UM

1023
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,960
Speaker 1: cross border raids. There were only a couple the amount

1024
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:59,800
Speaker 1: of operations we did in Syria or and we're like, whoa,

1025
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,840
Speaker 1: there were low level there's never like a serious attempt

1026
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:06,920
Speaker 1: to basically turn the tables on them. This is what happened,

1027
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:09,480
Speaker 1: you know in Vietnam where the enemy was using laughs

1028
01:02:09,520 --> 01:02:12,480
Speaker 1: in Cambodia as a safe haven to launch operations in

1029
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: the South Vietnam. At least in that those cases, we

1030
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:18,560
Speaker 1: did make some efforts to try to stop that. Uh.

1031
01:02:18,960 --> 01:02:22,280
Speaker 1: Coalition warfare wasn't successful. The deployment of Allied troops had

1032
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:25,320
Speaker 1: political value, but was largely unsuccessful because the Allies didn't

1033
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 1: send enough troops and limited the scope of the operations.

1034
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: So again it's like these coalitions like Operation Inherent Resolve,

1035
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: It's like, really, what are you guys doing? You know?

1036
01:02:34,440 --> 01:02:36,680
Speaker 1: And I mean I think even like you remember Dave

1037
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:39,480
Speaker 1: Chappelle did that skit about it, we've got a coalition

1038
01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 1: of the willing nations, you know. Uh So I mean

1039
01:02:46,720 --> 01:02:51,160
Speaker 1: there were some coalition partners, um, who who have done

1040
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:55,240
Speaker 1: and continue to do important work. Um. You know, the

1041
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:58,640
Speaker 1: the Brits at Task Force Black, the s a s

1042
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:02,280
Speaker 1: in Iraq, they did a lot operations. Um. There are

1043
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:05,560
Speaker 1: some small countries who did important work and continue to

1044
01:03:05,600 --> 01:03:10,280
Speaker 1: do important work. I mean, h Denmark, small, little little Denmark,

1045
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,600
Speaker 1: but they've gone on so many deployments. They've done a

1046
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:15,480
Speaker 1: lot of stuff and it's not their fault that the

1047
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:21,480
Speaker 1: soldiers get hampered by their politicians back home. Um, the Norwegians, UM.

1048
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:24,600
Speaker 1: All these different countries, but it's quite a small but

1049
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:29,280
Speaker 1: of include Canada. Canada has done. Canada goes on like

1050
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 1: every single peacekeeping operation that we're involved in. It's it's

1051
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:39,440
Speaker 1: it's Holland the Dutch also involved. Considered such a small

1052
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,600
Speaker 1: country that are all over the world doing stuff, I mean,

1053
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,760
Speaker 1: it's it's amazing. But then you have countries like South Korea,

1054
01:03:46,880 --> 01:03:50,560
Speaker 1: and the South Koreans had from the onset of it,

1055
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:53,880
Speaker 1: they said, we'll contribute troops, but caveat not a single

1056
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,440
Speaker 1: South Korean soldier can be heard or killed throughout this

1057
01:03:56,600 --> 01:04:00,000
Speaker 1: entire campaign. How can you give that kind of assurance.

1058
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,360
Speaker 1: So what they did was they said, okay, South Korea

1059
01:04:03,360 --> 01:04:06,440
Speaker 1: will put you into Baghdad, and South Korea was like nope.

1060
01:04:07,040 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 1: I said, okay, we'll send you do to Kryp. South

1061
01:04:10,320 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: Korea is like nope. So eventually it bounced around like

1062
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:16,480
Speaker 1: that until we sent them to her Bill, which is

1063
01:04:16,520 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 1: like the safest place in Iraq when the Kurdish territories

1064
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: UM and the South Koreans were hemmed up on like

1065
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: a compound within a compound, they were like it was

1066
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:30,960
Speaker 1: a South Korean Special Forces and some other you know, logistics,

1067
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: logistics guys or whatever. They literally could not leave the base.

1068
01:04:34,960 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: They were there purely for political grandstanding and maybe to

1069
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: develop some commercial relationships with the Kurds. That was it.

1070
01:04:42,160 --> 01:04:44,919
Speaker 1: And what's what's said is, I'm sure because you've had

1071
01:04:45,120 --> 01:04:47,400
Speaker 1: you know, you've met with these guys before, and you

1072
01:04:47,480 --> 01:04:51,360
Speaker 1: talked about the similarity between American Special operations and those guys,

1073
01:04:51,400 --> 01:04:53,240
Speaker 1: I'm sure they want to be in the action. The

1074
01:04:53,560 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: South Korean Special Forces absolutely did. UM. Yeah, yeah, I've

1075
01:04:58,040 --> 01:04:59,440
Speaker 1: met with them. They want to do they want to

1076
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:03,120
Speaker 1: do stuff. The Filipino Special Forces they want to be up.

1077
01:05:03,160 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: They want to be kicking Assid Syria with us. It's

1078
01:05:05,720 --> 01:05:08,760
Speaker 1: not it's not that the troops are bad, it's just

1079
01:05:08,880 --> 01:05:12,400
Speaker 1: that the political considerations are different, and especially in Europe,

1080
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:18,280
Speaker 1: you have these like very shaky coalition governments. UM. The like,

1081
01:05:18,360 --> 01:05:20,880
Speaker 1: I had one guy who's a CIA contractor and he

1082
01:05:21,000 --> 01:05:24,120
Speaker 1: was telling me that they had planned um this big operation.

1083
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: I think it was with I can't remember. I think

1084
01:05:26,560 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 1: it was with Danish troops. Maybe it was with Swedes

1085
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:32,120
Speaker 1: or something like that. I can't remember. But the they

1086
01:05:32,120 --> 01:05:35,200
Speaker 1: were on the tarmac getting into the helicopters to go

1087
01:05:35,240 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: do this operation, and the commander of that, uh, that

1088
01:05:39,680 --> 01:05:43,280
Speaker 1: Scandinavian special forces unit received a phone call from a

1089
01:05:43,320 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: member of parliament and said, no, you're shut down, get

1090
01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: off the helicopter. That's crazy, Like, how can you operate

1091
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: in an environment like that? When the politicians are that

1092
01:05:52,000 --> 01:05:56,040
Speaker 1: hands on that, they directly call the ground force commander

1093
01:05:56,120 --> 01:05:59,760
Speaker 1: like nope, done, can't do that. So yeah, that's when

1094
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 1: Elian warfare becomes a joke. Um, other find national Guard

1095
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:07,120
Speaker 1: needs more training. Yeah, that's that's a no brainer. I

1096
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:09,680
Speaker 1: mean we kind of we feared the national Guard more

1097
01:06:09,680 --> 01:06:12,120
Speaker 1: than we feared the enemy over in Iraq because the

1098
01:06:12,200 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 1: National Guard was notorious for like the death blossom. Like

1099
01:06:15,600 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: they so they received like are they just here at

1100
01:06:17,840 --> 01:06:20,280
Speaker 1: gunfire somewhere off in the distance and the National Guard

1101
01:06:20,320 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: just starts firing automatic gunfire in all directions. It was

1102
01:06:23,680 --> 01:06:26,400
Speaker 1: called the death blossom. Not not that all National Guard

1103
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:30,480
Speaker 1: units were like that, but some of them are pretty scary. Um,

1104
01:06:30,520 --> 01:06:33,480
Speaker 1: the failure to develop self reliant Iraqi forces. The U

1105
01:06:33,520 --> 01:06:35,680
Speaker 1: S led effort to train and equip Iraqi forces was

1106
01:06:35,760 --> 01:06:38,760
Speaker 1: under resourced for most of the war. A premature decision

1107
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,040
Speaker 1: to transfer sovereignty to the Iraqis made it harder to

1108
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: blunt political pressure by Iraqi officials on Iraqi commanders, like

1109
01:06:45,560 --> 01:06:47,240
Speaker 1: this is the key to me, this is the key

1110
01:06:47,280 --> 01:06:50,880
Speaker 1: finding of the entire thing, is that a policy decision

1111
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,840
Speaker 1: was made by the Obama administration that we're leaving Iraq

1112
01:06:54,280 --> 01:06:58,160
Speaker 1: and everything from there. Ship just rolled downhill and all

1113
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:00,600
Speaker 1: the commanders on the ground then had to fit a square,

1114
01:07:00,640 --> 01:07:03,640
Speaker 1: pagan or round hole and they were basically forced and

1115
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:06,920
Speaker 1: pressured to send up false reports to hire. Um I'm

1116
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 1: talking about like the lieutenants, the captains, the majors to

1117
01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 1: send up false reports to the generals and say everything's good,

1118
01:07:14,480 --> 01:07:16,920
Speaker 1: the Iraqi forces are ready. Yeah, but that's them. It's

1119
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,400
Speaker 1: not on Obama. It is on Obama because he made

1120
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,760
Speaker 1: a policy. But then if you have a lieutenant learning

1121
01:07:23,800 --> 01:07:26,600
Speaker 1: about what's going on on the ground, that's on him,

1122
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:30,040
Speaker 1: I agree. But also if that when that this is

1123
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:33,680
Speaker 1: how the situation works, and there when a lieutenant sends

1124
01:07:33,720 --> 01:07:36,200
Speaker 1: up the report to higher, they will and if higher

1125
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:42,160
Speaker 1: doesn't like that report, are you sure, lieutenant? Are you

1126
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 1: that the military is right? But it's a it's an

1127
01:07:45,200 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 1: ancestuous system. They're they're telling the junior officers what they're

1128
01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: supposed to say. This is the right answer to give

1129
01:07:52,080 --> 01:07:56,120
Speaker 1: the same things with weapons of mass destruction. Well not

1130
01:07:56,200 --> 01:07:59,280
Speaker 1: necessarily because if the if the troops on the ground

1131
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:02,240
Speaker 1: are saying there's no w m D s here now,

1132
01:08:02,480 --> 01:08:04,360
Speaker 1: then if the general's come back and say no, you

1133
01:08:04,360 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: have to lie and say they were w m D

1134
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:09,840
Speaker 1: s now. It's a case is similar case. But like

1135
01:08:09,920 --> 01:08:12,360
Speaker 1: Sam fadd As his team went went into Iraq prior

1136
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:14,800
Speaker 1: to the invasion, and he told his guys his team

1137
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:16,519
Speaker 1: before they went in, He's like, look, if we find

1138
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:18,960
Speaker 1: w m D so so be it will report that,

1139
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,519
Speaker 1: but we are not going to massage the facts to

1140
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:26,040
Speaker 1: fit the political agenda. And that's the you know, the U. S.

1141
01:08:26,080 --> 01:08:29,160
Speaker 1: Military should have taken that same stance when they went

1142
01:08:29,479 --> 01:08:33,160
Speaker 1: uh As we were running a counterinsurgency operation and trying

1143
01:08:33,200 --> 01:08:36,839
Speaker 1: to transition sovereignty over to the Iraqi forces. They forced

1144
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:39,280
Speaker 1: a round peg to fitness square hole. The Iraqis were

1145
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:41,640
Speaker 1: not ready for it, and then we pulled out. We

1146
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,719
Speaker 1: said everything was kosher. We pulled out, and then Isis

1147
01:08:44,760 --> 01:08:49,479
Speaker 1: came to town and you can see the results. Uh

1148
01:08:49,600 --> 01:08:53,280
Speaker 1: in effective detainee policy. The US decided at the onset

1149
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:56,559
Speaker 1: not to treat captured insurgents or militia fighters as prisoners

1150
01:08:56,560 --> 01:08:58,400
Speaker 1: of war and then never developed an effective way to

1151
01:08:58,439 --> 01:09:01,960
Speaker 1: handle detainees. Mini Sunians surgeons were returned to the battlefield. Well,

1152
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:04,679
Speaker 1: hell yeah, that happened, especially as we had to turn

1153
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:07,799
Speaker 1: them over to the Iraqi courts. In the Iraqi judges

1154
01:09:07,840 --> 01:09:10,360
Speaker 1: were just like right back into the ecosystem with you,

1155
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:12,840
Speaker 1: and so we pick up the same guys over and

1156
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:17,360
Speaker 1: over again. Um. But also the United States had our

1157
01:09:17,400 --> 01:09:21,599
Speaker 1: Our detainee policy was shipped too. I mean, I was somebody.

1158
01:09:21,840 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 1: One of the things I had to do was stand

1159
01:09:23,600 --> 01:09:27,120
Speaker 1: guard and what was then called the tactical interrogation facility.

1160
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,439
Speaker 1: I could go on and on about it. It was

1161
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: a fucking joke. If you've spoken about it a little

1162
01:09:32,000 --> 01:09:36,040
Speaker 1: bit on the show before. Yeah, they had contractors. They're

1163
01:09:36,280 --> 01:09:41,439
Speaker 1: using techniques that some might describe as torture. It wasn't.

1164
01:09:41,479 --> 01:09:43,880
Speaker 1: It wasn't like a booga rob. It was much more

1165
01:09:43,880 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: professional than that. But what they're saying here is the

1166
01:09:47,640 --> 01:09:51,800
Speaker 1: conclusion is correct. We never had a real policy um

1167
01:09:51,880 --> 01:09:55,000
Speaker 1: for handling detainees. They should have been treated as prisoners

1168
01:09:55,040 --> 01:09:58,400
Speaker 1: of war most likely. Um. And and put into a

1169
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: more formalized process. And then uh, the last one here,

1170
01:10:02,479 --> 01:10:05,840
Speaker 1: the last bullet point. Democracy doesn't necessarily bring stability. US

1171
01:10:05,880 --> 01:10:08,880
Speaker 1: commanders believe the two thousand and five Iraqi elections would

1172
01:10:08,920 --> 01:10:11,920
Speaker 1: have a calming effect, but those elections exacerbated ethnic and

1173
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:15,639
Speaker 1: secretary intentions. So look, when you crash a country, when

1174
01:10:15,640 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: you crash the party, collapse, the government, implode the institutions

1175
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:24,080
Speaker 1: of government. Uh. You know, some Jeffersonian democracy isn't just

1176
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:27,440
Speaker 1: going to spring up out of nowhere, especially if you actually,

1177
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:29,720
Speaker 1: you know, bring back people who haven't been in the

1178
01:10:29,760 --> 01:10:32,720
Speaker 1: country for twenty years and then say, okay, this is

1179
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:34,960
Speaker 1: your country now, you know, run for office, no, which

1180
01:10:35,000 --> 01:10:39,519
Speaker 1: is what we're also trying to do in Libya right now. Um.

1181
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: And also when you when you crash the political system, um,

1182
01:10:45,080 --> 01:10:48,040
Speaker 1: and you have people who don't have a cultural institutional

1183
01:10:48,080 --> 01:10:51,639
Speaker 1: knowledge of democracy, what their vision of democracy is. Okay,

1184
01:10:51,720 --> 01:10:54,680
Speaker 1: I vote for my ethnic group. End of story. I

1185
01:10:54,760 --> 01:10:57,320
Speaker 1: vote for my tribe. So it's a different way, a

1186
01:10:57,320 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: different way of viewing politics than we do in the

1187
01:11:00,520 --> 01:11:03,600
Speaker 1: United States. And I think the U. S. Military was

1188
01:11:03,840 --> 01:11:06,679
Speaker 1: extremely naive about that fact. I think also the White

1189
01:11:06,720 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: House was extremely naive. You cannot you cannot export democracy

1190
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:13,120
Speaker 1: in that way. Yeah, I mean there was a fight

1191
01:11:13,600 --> 01:11:16,599
Speaker 1: in both Europe and the United States to actually reach

1192
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,280
Speaker 1: to democracy, and you need to have that otherwise and

1193
01:11:20,320 --> 01:11:25,200
Speaker 1: then we change, we you know, adjusted to our own country,

1194
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:28,360
Speaker 1: and you cannot just impose democracy, but we keep doing

1195
01:11:28,400 --> 01:11:30,240
Speaker 1: it over and over again. And that's the book I'm

1196
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,800
Speaker 1: reading right now. The Grand Delusion by John Muirscheimer is

1197
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:39,719
Speaker 1: about exactly that, how uh, political liberalism has essentially taken

1198
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,680
Speaker 1: over and in the sense we use that term liberalism,

1199
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,720
Speaker 1: I mean Georgia W. Bush would be a liberal in

1200
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,720
Speaker 1: that sense that we have this idea that we want

1201
01:11:47,800 --> 01:11:50,639
Speaker 1: to export our ideology across the world and that will

1202
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,759
Speaker 1: make the world a better, safer place. And his book

1203
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:58,160
Speaker 1: is essentially the counter narrative to that, saying that we've

1204
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:02,799
Speaker 1: actually made a foreign policy disaster um across the globe

1205
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 1: um with this sort of ideological thinking. Well, well, if

1206
01:12:06,160 --> 01:12:07,640
Speaker 1: you want to read the full article. It's at the

1207
01:12:07,680 --> 01:12:10,640
Speaker 1: Wall Street Journal. Army Stemy its own study of the

1208
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Speaker 1: Iraq War. Wrapping things up here. Be sure to check

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Speaker 1: is up. I have a last email really quick. I

1245
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:19,400
Speaker 1: know bet he's got to get out of here. Um

1246
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 1: so I just want to read this from an anonymous

1247
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:25,919
Speaker 1: guy very quick. Uh. Sent to Softwrep dot radio Softwrep

1248
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,000
Speaker 1: dot com. He wrote, I'm listening to the Dale Comstock interview.

1249
01:14:29,400 --> 01:14:31,760
Speaker 1: I had read his book. This guy is in my age,

1250
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:34,200
Speaker 1: about mid fifties and he's still out there working as

1251
01:14:34,240 --> 01:14:38,280
Speaker 1: an operative. That is incredible. Keep these broadcasts coming and

1252
01:14:38,360 --> 01:14:41,479
Speaker 1: that's it. So, I mean it really is true. Um,

1253
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:45,639
Speaker 1: Dale's a beast. It's still going strong. Yeah, no, it's

1254
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,479
Speaker 1: it's incredible and we're gonna have him back soon. So

1255
01:14:48,840 --> 01:14:52,160
Speaker 1: with that, Um, there we go with that. I was

1256
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:56,519
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Speaker 1: be there a lot of other people there. I'm excited

1266
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Speaker 1: for it. Uh. And you know, if you guys like

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Speaker 1: this episode, check it out, take the drive out. If

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Speaker 1: you're in the you know, try State Area, anything else

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Speaker 1: before we wrap this up, I think for sure. Awesome. Well,

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Speaker 1: thanks for coming in, Benny. It's been far too long

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Speaker 1: and everybody's excited for the film, so thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Great stuff. Yeah, you've been listening to self red Lydia

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Speaker 1: new episodes of every Wednesday and Friday. Follow the show

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter at song Fret Radio.