1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:22,956 Speaker 1: Pushkin. At seventy years old, Kim Gordon, the former bassist 2 00:00:22,956 --> 00:00:26,116 Speaker 1: and founding member of Sonic Youth, is somehow making the 3 00:00:26,156 --> 00:00:30,476 Speaker 1: most abrasive music of her career right now. This month, 4 00:00:30,556 --> 00:00:33,276 Speaker 1: she dropped her second solo album, called The Collective, with 5 00:00:33,396 --> 00:00:37,036 Speaker 1: producer Justin Raisin, who's previously worked with artists like Drake 6 00:00:37,196 --> 00:00:41,916 Speaker 1: Loyati and Charlie XCX. Kim's spoken word like vocals on 7 00:00:41,956 --> 00:00:45,716 Speaker 1: The Collective are the perfect accompaniment to Justin's distorted trap 8 00:00:45,756 --> 00:00:49,556 Speaker 1: style beats, especially on her first single, bye Bye, which 9 00:00:49,796 --> 00:01:06,276 Speaker 1: was originally intended for rapper Playboy Carti Cotish. On today's episode, 10 00:01:06,356 --> 00:01:09,396 Speaker 1: Lee Rose talks to Kim Gordon about her latest solo album, 11 00:01:09,476 --> 00:01:11,796 Speaker 1: as well as her memoir Girl in a Band, that 12 00:01:11,876 --> 00:01:14,956 Speaker 1: detailed her very public split with ex husband Thurston Moore. 13 00:01:15,796 --> 00:01:17,996 Speaker 1: Kim also delves into why she always felt like an 14 00:01:17,996 --> 00:01:21,236 Speaker 1: outsider in New York City's thriving downtown art scene, and 15 00:01:21,316 --> 00:01:24,596 Speaker 1: recalls Sonic Youth's story tour in the early nineties. Opening 16 00:01:24,676 --> 00:01:30,836 Speaker 1: up for Neil Young. This is broken record liner notes 17 00:01:30,876 --> 00:01:34,556 Speaker 1: for the Digital Age. I'm Justin Mitchman. Here's Leah Rose's 18 00:01:34,596 --> 00:01:38,436 Speaker 1: conversation with Kim Gordon I saw. 19 00:01:38,196 --> 00:01:41,196 Speaker 2: That you're getting ready to play some shows to support 20 00:01:41,236 --> 00:01:46,276 Speaker 2: the new album. How are you going to translate the 21 00:01:46,356 --> 00:01:48,956 Speaker 2: album or the songs or the new music to the stage. 22 00:01:48,996 --> 00:01:49,956 Speaker 2: What are you guys thinking? 23 00:01:50,396 --> 00:01:54,356 Speaker 3: Well, this is so it'll be the same group of 24 00:01:54,436 --> 00:01:57,356 Speaker 3: girls that I toured the last record with, but the 25 00:01:57,476 --> 00:02:00,676 Speaker 3: drummer will have probably have some kind of hybrid kit, 26 00:02:01,436 --> 00:02:06,876 Speaker 3: so she'll be uh what she'll be doing, She'll be playing, 27 00:02:06,916 --> 00:02:10,836 Speaker 3: like you know, some of the beats and then sampling stuff. 28 00:02:10,876 --> 00:02:14,636 Speaker 3: I guess, uh huh. Same with a guitar player and 29 00:02:14,676 --> 00:02:20,276 Speaker 3: the bass player. They're all very technologically savvy. I'm kind 30 00:02:20,316 --> 00:02:23,996 Speaker 3: of the only one who has sent and then there'll 31 00:02:24,036 --> 00:02:27,836 Speaker 3: be some things on backing tracks that we just can't reproduce. 32 00:02:28,636 --> 00:02:31,596 Speaker 2: And for the actual for the recording of the songs, 33 00:02:32,276 --> 00:02:34,236 Speaker 2: were you playing with a live band or was it 34 00:02:34,276 --> 00:02:37,556 Speaker 2: mostly okay, it's mostly programmed stuff. 35 00:02:37,756 --> 00:02:42,076 Speaker 3: It was it was basically me and Justin Raisin. He 36 00:02:42,196 --> 00:02:44,796 Speaker 3: was my collaborator. Like I said, I wanted to have 37 00:02:44,916 --> 00:02:47,916 Speaker 3: more beats on this record, and he would basically send 38 00:02:47,916 --> 00:02:50,836 Speaker 3: me beats. Like I talked about what sort of you know, 39 00:02:51,036 --> 00:02:54,396 Speaker 3: hip hop I liked, and I'm sort of inspired by 40 00:02:54,476 --> 00:02:58,196 Speaker 3: rhythm because I'm not a very melodic singer in my 41 00:02:58,276 --> 00:03:02,796 Speaker 3: range as kind of limits it, let's just say. Anyway, 42 00:03:02,836 --> 00:03:06,836 Speaker 3: So he would make up beats with some sounds and 43 00:03:07,076 --> 00:03:08,636 Speaker 3: send it to me, and I would decide what I 44 00:03:08,636 --> 00:03:11,836 Speaker 3: thought I could work on, and then I would go 45 00:03:11,916 --> 00:03:15,996 Speaker 3: in and make up guitar parts in the studio and 46 00:03:17,116 --> 00:03:20,716 Speaker 3: lay down some vocals, and usually start out with some 47 00:03:20,796 --> 00:03:24,276 Speaker 3: of the songs I had complete lyrics, but I still 48 00:03:24,276 --> 00:03:25,956 Speaker 3: didn't know how I was going to place them, you know, 49 00:03:26,276 --> 00:03:30,276 Speaker 3: And then other songs I would have, you know, half lyrics, 50 00:03:30,316 --> 00:03:32,716 Speaker 3: and then I would sort of start improvising or other 51 00:03:32,756 --> 00:03:36,236 Speaker 3: things would come out around my mouth. Where'd that come from? I? 52 00:03:38,476 --> 00:03:41,036 Speaker 3: And so then it became like for him like sort 53 00:03:41,036 --> 00:03:44,516 Speaker 3: of a shaping editing kind of process. And then you know, 54 00:03:44,556 --> 00:03:48,036 Speaker 3: sometimes he would sample my guitars, put it back in, 55 00:03:48,236 --> 00:03:51,276 Speaker 3: and and then I would go back and then usually 56 00:03:51,356 --> 00:03:54,076 Speaker 3: add more guitar vocals. 57 00:03:54,476 --> 00:03:57,036 Speaker 2: So the guitar is you playing. 58 00:03:57,116 --> 00:04:00,716 Speaker 3: Yeah, although there might be some things he played guitar on, 59 00:04:00,876 --> 00:04:04,436 Speaker 3: but mostly it's me. And then I had Sarah come 60 00:04:04,476 --> 00:04:08,196 Speaker 3: in in the end and add more dense and noise stuff. 61 00:04:09,156 --> 00:04:11,876 Speaker 2: What were the reference the hip hop reference tracks that 62 00:04:11,916 --> 00:04:13,476 Speaker 2: you gave him. 63 00:04:13,196 --> 00:04:18,516 Speaker 3: You know, like schooly D, how Gucci time, oh, old school? 64 00:04:18,796 --> 00:04:23,196 Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, mostly like yeah, eighties or nineties. Okay, I 65 00:04:23,236 --> 00:04:26,276 Speaker 3: didn't really give him that many references. But and then 66 00:04:26,516 --> 00:04:28,756 Speaker 3: for the last record we talked about, you know, I'd 67 00:04:28,756 --> 00:04:32,516 Speaker 3: played them different things, like even esg or there was 68 00:04:32,556 --> 00:04:36,796 Speaker 3: this single I really liked by this banda Jellies, just 69 00:04:36,916 --> 00:04:40,796 Speaker 3: like a super minimal kind of fun song. I'm like 70 00:04:40,836 --> 00:04:42,476 Speaker 3: eighty two or eighty three. 71 00:04:42,596 --> 00:04:45,796 Speaker 2: That's cool. I thought some of I mean, some of 72 00:04:45,836 --> 00:04:49,356 Speaker 2: the music sounds like kind of like blown out dub 73 00:04:49,356 --> 00:04:52,476 Speaker 2: and trap beats. So I thought maybe you were referencing 74 00:04:52,556 --> 00:04:54,716 Speaker 2: more more recent stuff. 75 00:04:55,356 --> 00:04:58,916 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, there is some yeah, reference to recent stuff, 76 00:04:59,356 --> 00:05:02,796 Speaker 3: but it's kind of like, well, I liked the last record. 77 00:05:02,836 --> 00:05:05,436 Speaker 3: I really liked that song Peprika Pony, which is a 78 00:05:05,596 --> 00:05:09,956 Speaker 3: trap speed so like. But yeah, no, I know that 79 00:05:09,996 --> 00:05:14,716 Speaker 3: he makes beats for other people, and so I knew that, yeah, 80 00:05:14,756 --> 00:05:17,596 Speaker 3: that would involve other things, but it wasn't like I 81 00:05:17,636 --> 00:05:21,516 Speaker 3: specifically pointed out some you know, contemporary person. 82 00:05:22,356 --> 00:05:24,196 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I've been reading some of the things that 83 00:05:24,236 --> 00:05:26,916 Speaker 2: are being written about what's been released so far, and 84 00:05:27,036 --> 00:05:30,276 Speaker 2: people are like, you know, like you're dropping bangers like 85 00:05:30,956 --> 00:05:34,156 Speaker 2: trap bangers, and it's just it's so great. 86 00:05:34,756 --> 00:05:37,996 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean yeah, Justin gets a kick out of that, 87 00:05:38,156 --> 00:05:40,716 Speaker 3: Like he couldn't wait for like his hip Hop World 88 00:05:40,796 --> 00:05:43,356 Speaker 3: or whatever to hear a record or something. 89 00:05:44,196 --> 00:05:46,316 Speaker 2: How did you two meet? How did you start working together? 90 00:05:48,076 --> 00:05:52,516 Speaker 3: Super accidentally actually met him through his brother, uh Jeremiah, 91 00:05:53,076 --> 00:05:57,196 Speaker 3: who uh I think curates beats for Drake or something. 92 00:05:57,316 --> 00:05:59,876 Speaker 3: People send him beats. It was actually just in a 93 00:05:59,956 --> 00:06:03,196 Speaker 3: restaurant and I was with a friend and he was 94 00:06:03,236 --> 00:06:05,836 Speaker 3: with this girl, and our tables were so close together, 95 00:06:06,516 --> 00:06:08,796 Speaker 3: and they had kind of a friend vibe. But then 96 00:06:08,836 --> 00:06:11,996 Speaker 3: sudden they started talking about their sex life together, and 97 00:06:12,196 --> 00:06:15,036 Speaker 3: our tables were so close that we just all turned 98 00:06:15,396 --> 00:06:18,116 Speaker 3: to look at each other and started laughing. So we 99 00:06:18,236 --> 00:06:20,996 Speaker 3: just started talking and and he was kind of like, yeah, 100 00:06:21,076 --> 00:06:23,996 Speaker 3: my brother's a producer and he did the Discover Our 101 00:06:24,156 --> 00:06:27,036 Speaker 3: record and that was kind of a cool record. But 102 00:06:27,076 --> 00:06:31,236 Speaker 3: I when usually people say the word producer, my head 103 00:06:31,356 --> 00:06:34,796 Speaker 3: kind of just turns off. I don't know, necessarily, It's 104 00:06:34,836 --> 00:06:37,636 Speaker 3: not the way I've ever worked. So but then yeah, 105 00:06:37,996 --> 00:06:40,596 Speaker 3: Justin started dming me and he was working on a 106 00:06:40,596 --> 00:06:43,396 Speaker 3: project with Lawrence Rothman and they were having different people 107 00:06:43,436 --> 00:06:49,036 Speaker 3: come in and do vocals along with Lawrence. And I 108 00:06:49,156 --> 00:06:51,876 Speaker 3: wasn't actually living in La then, I was saying in 109 00:06:51,876 --> 00:06:54,156 Speaker 3: an airbnb and yeah, I thought it was sort of 110 00:06:54,156 --> 00:06:56,796 Speaker 3: a character, but I he kept sending me sup but 111 00:06:56,876 --> 00:06:59,716 Speaker 3: eventually he sent me something that okay, I could do 112 00:06:59,796 --> 00:07:02,276 Speaker 3: something on this, and so I went over and he 113 00:07:02,276 --> 00:07:05,476 Speaker 3: has this home studio in his garage. It's a very 114 00:07:05,476 --> 00:07:11,876 Speaker 3: big garage, LA style, and I did some vocals and 115 00:07:11,916 --> 00:07:15,356 Speaker 3: he basically took what was left over and put a 116 00:07:15,476 --> 00:07:18,436 Speaker 3: very trashy drum track to it and sent it to me, 117 00:07:18,516 --> 00:07:22,156 Speaker 3: and I was really surprised. It was just like, oh, 118 00:07:22,156 --> 00:07:25,516 Speaker 3: he really knows my sensibility. And so I went back 119 00:07:25,556 --> 00:07:29,076 Speaker 3: and I did. He had Stella from Warpaint come in 120 00:07:29,116 --> 00:07:33,156 Speaker 3: and put drums over it, and I put some guitar 121 00:07:33,236 --> 00:07:36,996 Speaker 3: on it and vocals and that became murdered out. And 122 00:07:37,036 --> 00:07:39,316 Speaker 3: then it wasn't until like six months later that I 123 00:07:39,316 --> 00:07:41,356 Speaker 3: think we actually started working on a record. 124 00:07:41,876 --> 00:07:42,476 Speaker 2: Sounds fun. 125 00:07:43,236 --> 00:07:46,516 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was kind of I really didn't have any 126 00:07:46,916 --> 00:07:50,516 Speaker 3: desire to do a solo record. You know. I played 127 00:07:50,596 --> 00:07:55,356 Speaker 3: with the Bill Mace. We have a experimental guitar duo 128 00:07:55,796 --> 00:07:59,396 Speaker 3: improv group and Body head and so and I have 129 00:07:59,716 --> 00:08:02,436 Speaker 3: you know, I make visual arts. So I wasn't really 130 00:08:02,436 --> 00:08:07,036 Speaker 3: thinking about launching a solo career in that sense. 131 00:08:07,836 --> 00:08:09,876 Speaker 2: Does Bill like this solo stuff that you're doing. 132 00:08:10,556 --> 00:08:13,276 Speaker 3: He's very supportive, you know, he says he does, but 133 00:08:13,276 --> 00:08:14,716 Speaker 3: I don't know what he really thinks. 134 00:08:17,116 --> 00:08:19,196 Speaker 2: The thing that struck me about it as a lot 135 00:08:19,236 --> 00:08:23,396 Speaker 2: of the people that we talk to as people get older, 136 00:08:23,596 --> 00:08:28,636 Speaker 2: things start to get quieter, their music starts to slow down, 137 00:08:29,356 --> 00:08:33,356 Speaker 2: and this is the opposite of that. It's so noisy 138 00:08:34,076 --> 00:08:38,236 Speaker 2: in the best way. Is that something that you were 139 00:08:38,276 --> 00:08:41,076 Speaker 2: intending to do from the beginning. Was that part of 140 00:08:41,156 --> 00:08:42,836 Speaker 2: the original concept? 141 00:08:43,636 --> 00:08:46,916 Speaker 3: No, I didn't really think about it, actually, not at all. 142 00:08:47,076 --> 00:08:48,716 Speaker 3: I don't know, Like, it wasn't really until it was 143 00:08:48,756 --> 00:08:51,636 Speaker 3: done that I thought, oh god, it's really a loud record. 144 00:08:52,276 --> 00:08:58,876 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm I'm kind of a slow developer. I'm 145 00:08:58,916 --> 00:09:02,436 Speaker 3: just not making a really loud record. Yeah, I don't know. 146 00:09:02,556 --> 00:09:05,756 Speaker 3: I guess I kind of see the record as an 147 00:09:05,796 --> 00:09:10,916 Speaker 3: intervention into the culture or what does that mean? Like, 148 00:09:11,596 --> 00:09:16,676 Speaker 3: because it's so different and so kind of abrasive in 149 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:20,876 Speaker 3: some way and not an easy listening kind of record. 150 00:09:21,156 --> 00:09:25,756 Speaker 3: It has this other thing about it and I think 151 00:09:26,476 --> 00:09:28,636 Speaker 3: people seem to be more and more ready for things 152 00:09:28,676 --> 00:09:33,556 Speaker 3: that aren't conventional. And I don't know, so I think 153 00:09:33,636 --> 00:09:35,916 Speaker 3: it's just meant to be a little bit of a 154 00:09:35,956 --> 00:09:38,996 Speaker 3: disruption into what is business as usual. 155 00:09:39,396 --> 00:09:40,676 Speaker 2: Yeah, that makes sense. 156 00:09:40,436 --> 00:09:42,396 Speaker 3: But it didn't really like I didn't. You know, this 157 00:09:42,436 --> 00:09:44,716 Speaker 3: is all like I'm saying this, but it's kind of 158 00:09:45,036 --> 00:09:47,196 Speaker 3: unconsciously done. 159 00:09:47,556 --> 00:09:49,396 Speaker 2: Do you listen to loud music normally? 160 00:09:50,036 --> 00:09:52,956 Speaker 3: Uh? Not normally actually, you know, if I'm just around 161 00:09:52,956 --> 00:09:57,516 Speaker 3: my house now, like I'll listen to like even John Fahi, 162 00:09:57,756 --> 00:10:01,836 Speaker 3: you know, or like Brazilian music or Bardo Pond, you know, 163 00:10:01,996 --> 00:10:04,516 Speaker 3: kind of Actually I love Barti Pond, Like I love 164 00:10:04,596 --> 00:10:08,636 Speaker 3: that there's something really glorious and beautiful about their drone. 165 00:10:08,716 --> 00:10:11,636 Speaker 3: It's very soothing to me, even though it's kind of loud. 166 00:10:12,596 --> 00:10:14,996 Speaker 2: I don't know if this is a connection between earlier 167 00:10:15,316 --> 00:10:18,596 Speaker 2: music you've made with Sonic Youth, but seems like you're 168 00:10:18,596 --> 00:10:20,156 Speaker 2: sort of comfortable with the drone. 169 00:10:20,476 --> 00:10:21,076 Speaker 3: Yeah. 170 00:10:21,116 --> 00:10:23,956 Speaker 2: Do you see any sort of connective tissue between the 171 00:10:24,036 --> 00:10:26,556 Speaker 2: music you were making with Sonic Youth and the new 172 00:10:26,636 --> 00:10:27,636 Speaker 2: solo music. 173 00:10:28,436 --> 00:10:30,676 Speaker 3: I mean, you know, in some ways, like if the 174 00:10:30,916 --> 00:10:34,756 Speaker 3: songs that I sang on were the ones that were 175 00:10:34,836 --> 00:10:39,756 Speaker 3: kind of more abstract slabs of music and you know, 176 00:10:39,876 --> 00:10:42,476 Speaker 3: songs that we'd kind of make up all together sitting 177 00:10:42,516 --> 00:10:46,196 Speaker 3: around as opposed to ones Often Thurston would come in 178 00:10:46,276 --> 00:10:48,596 Speaker 3: with a melody and he would know what he wanted 179 00:10:48,636 --> 00:10:51,556 Speaker 3: to sing, and then we'd find our parts to it 180 00:10:51,596 --> 00:10:55,236 Speaker 3: and still arrange it all together. But other songs it 181 00:10:55,316 --> 00:10:58,156 Speaker 3: was kind of a challenge like how am I gonna 182 00:10:58,156 --> 00:11:01,396 Speaker 3: sing on this? And in a way like being presented 183 00:11:01,396 --> 00:11:05,316 Speaker 3: with like beats and pieces of music would sound and beats, 184 00:11:05,636 --> 00:11:08,476 Speaker 3: it wasn't dissimilar. You know, it's kind of okay, what 185 00:11:08,516 --> 00:11:11,196 Speaker 3: can I do with this? And you know, if I 186 00:11:11,236 --> 00:11:13,596 Speaker 3: didn't feel like I could do something, obviously it wouldn't 187 00:11:13,596 --> 00:11:16,836 Speaker 3: do it. But you know, some things would immediately like 188 00:11:16,996 --> 00:11:18,876 Speaker 3: move me. And that's also the way it was with 189 00:11:19,156 --> 00:11:22,236 Speaker 3: in Sonic, you like, oh yeah, I could definitely do 190 00:11:22,356 --> 00:11:25,156 Speaker 3: something you know, like massage history. I knew I could 191 00:11:25,196 --> 00:11:27,516 Speaker 3: do something like that. It's funny. It just occurred to 192 00:11:27,516 --> 00:11:31,116 Speaker 3: me the other day that it's kind of not dissimilar 193 00:11:31,556 --> 00:11:32,076 Speaker 3: in that way. 194 00:11:32,516 --> 00:11:32,836 Speaker 1: M hm. 195 00:11:33,356 --> 00:11:35,396 Speaker 3: And then we did do some things that were like 196 00:11:35,836 --> 00:11:38,956 Speaker 3: you know, cool thing or nature scene that were kind 197 00:11:38,996 --> 00:11:43,076 Speaker 3: of had moments of what reference to hip hop. 198 00:11:42,796 --> 00:11:45,996 Speaker 2: Or Yeah, I was surprised to see. I don't remember 199 00:11:45,996 --> 00:11:48,236 Speaker 2: where it was from, but I read an interview with 200 00:11:48,276 --> 00:11:52,556 Speaker 2: you where you were saying for cool Thing that llll 201 00:11:52,676 --> 00:11:54,996 Speaker 2: cool Jay's going back to Cali was one of your 202 00:11:55,036 --> 00:11:57,636 Speaker 2: favorite music videos of all time. I thought that was 203 00:11:57,636 --> 00:11:58,236 Speaker 2: super cool. 204 00:11:58,356 --> 00:12:03,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it was definitely an inspiration, and the song 205 00:12:03,236 --> 00:12:06,196 Speaker 3: kind of came about, you know. I was I was 206 00:12:06,196 --> 00:12:08,476 Speaker 3: supposed to review l A Cool Day's new record, and 207 00:12:08,916 --> 00:12:12,636 Speaker 3: I interviewed him and I asked, I was always curious 208 00:12:12,796 --> 00:12:16,796 Speaker 3: how working with Rick Rubin was and what his knowledge 209 00:12:16,796 --> 00:12:19,716 Speaker 3: of rock was or you know, or wasn't all Rick, 210 00:12:19,996 --> 00:12:23,756 Speaker 3: you know, who brought what? And because I really liked Radio. 211 00:12:24,236 --> 00:12:28,116 Speaker 3: I really liked that record a lot, and I was 212 00:12:28,156 --> 00:12:31,596 Speaker 3: disappointed to learn that it was he was really into 213 00:12:31,596 --> 00:12:37,236 Speaker 3: bon Jovi really and in a way it makes sense, 214 00:12:37,556 --> 00:12:41,196 Speaker 3: like h but again, like I think it's because Rick 215 00:12:41,356 --> 00:12:46,196 Speaker 3: probably you know, liked the big, chunky power chords of 216 00:12:46,396 --> 00:12:48,516 Speaker 3: bon Jovi. That was kind of you know, like that 217 00:12:48,676 --> 00:12:51,596 Speaker 3: went with the space and the beats he was doing, 218 00:12:51,596 --> 00:12:55,396 Speaker 3: and yeah, in some of the music and anyway, so 219 00:12:56,436 --> 00:12:59,116 Speaker 3: that's where it was part of the inspiration for the lyrics. 220 00:12:59,316 --> 00:13:03,476 Speaker 3: You know, like being disappointed in some many Well, you're 221 00:13:03,516 --> 00:13:08,076 Speaker 3: not into dissident guitars. And I always thought, actually hip 222 00:13:08,076 --> 00:13:10,756 Speaker 3: hop would be so much it'd be cooler if they 223 00:13:11,356 --> 00:13:14,116 Speaker 3: kind of were into more dissonet, kind of like their 224 00:13:14,156 --> 00:13:18,356 Speaker 3: idea of rock. It's kind of corny in some respects. 225 00:13:18,396 --> 00:13:23,836 Speaker 3: So anyway, So I think Justin someone who appreciates that. 226 00:13:24,076 --> 00:13:26,956 Speaker 3: I never said that to him, but you know, he 227 00:13:27,436 --> 00:13:30,676 Speaker 3: appreciates that this is going to make a trap speek 228 00:13:30,716 --> 00:13:32,516 Speaker 3: cent different, you know, like it. 229 00:13:32,436 --> 00:13:36,356 Speaker 2: Reminds me of have you heard Jesus Kanye's Jesus? I 230 00:13:36,356 --> 00:13:39,876 Speaker 2: wonder if Justin's a fan of that album, but it's 231 00:13:39,996 --> 00:13:43,356 Speaker 2: very like it feels like industrial music inspired. 232 00:13:43,756 --> 00:13:47,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, I heard him do it live and a horrible 233 00:13:47,676 --> 00:13:49,876 Speaker 3: at the met at this the Met Ball, and it 234 00:13:49,916 --> 00:13:52,516 Speaker 3: was the acoustics are terrible. I thought it was terrible, 235 00:13:54,716 --> 00:13:57,116 Speaker 3: but I didn't honestly didn't sit down and listen to 236 00:13:57,156 --> 00:13:59,956 Speaker 3: it the whole thing. But I I'm sure he was 237 00:13:59,996 --> 00:14:02,716 Speaker 3: a fan of it. I'm sure he wasn't. Yeah, hell, 238 00:14:02,956 --> 00:14:08,436 Speaker 3: he calls me Kanye sometimes so bad. 239 00:14:09,476 --> 00:14:12,996 Speaker 2: And now that you're in the full interview cycle promoting 240 00:14:13,036 --> 00:14:15,956 Speaker 2: the new album, how do you feel about doing interviews. 241 00:14:16,116 --> 00:14:17,636 Speaker 2: I know, it's like a strange thing to ask you 242 00:14:17,676 --> 00:14:18,756 Speaker 2: in an interview, but. 243 00:14:20,476 --> 00:14:21,356 Speaker 3: That's a good question. 244 00:14:22,036 --> 00:14:26,236 Speaker 2: You've been interviewed so many times for so many years, Like. 245 00:14:26,236 --> 00:14:28,676 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I think I've done over fifty interviews 246 00:14:28,676 --> 00:14:29,756 Speaker 3: for this record so far. 247 00:14:30,276 --> 00:14:30,756 Speaker 1: Wow. 248 00:14:31,316 --> 00:14:33,916 Speaker 3: And then I did a couple of interviews yesterday and 249 00:14:34,596 --> 00:14:37,676 Speaker 3: one was with someone an Think and Poland, and he's 250 00:14:37,916 --> 00:14:42,076 Speaker 3: quoting my interviews I've already done for this record, really, 251 00:14:42,316 --> 00:14:45,956 Speaker 3: And actually it was fine because I could clarify a 252 00:14:45,956 --> 00:14:49,236 Speaker 3: couple of things that were, you know, taken out of 253 00:14:49,236 --> 00:14:51,996 Speaker 3: context or whatever. But at the same time, I thought 254 00:14:52,036 --> 00:14:55,756 Speaker 3: it was kind of strange because I've been I think 255 00:14:55,796 --> 00:14:58,636 Speaker 3: I started doing interviews last fall when I was in Europe. 256 00:14:58,916 --> 00:15:03,116 Speaker 3: But you know, it's a necessary evil. Sometimes I like it, 257 00:15:03,156 --> 00:15:06,796 Speaker 3: you know, like it depends on the interviewer really, and 258 00:15:07,356 --> 00:15:10,036 Speaker 3: it's made me think so much about the record, and 259 00:15:10,116 --> 00:15:14,116 Speaker 3: I don't like that. Like I can give explanations for 260 00:15:14,876 --> 00:15:18,516 Speaker 3: most of the songs, but I don't feel like it's 261 00:15:18,556 --> 00:15:21,876 Speaker 3: always a good idea. I think it's nice when people 262 00:15:22,596 --> 00:15:25,956 Speaker 3: come to their own conclusions sometimes or like project what 263 00:15:25,996 --> 00:15:30,196 Speaker 3: they want or but for some things like the song 264 00:15:30,236 --> 00:15:33,596 Speaker 3: I mean, man it's kind of useful to explain it. 265 00:15:33,636 --> 00:15:35,636 Speaker 2: Does it seem like people are missing the mark with 266 00:15:35,676 --> 00:15:37,396 Speaker 2: the questions they're asking you about the. 267 00:15:37,356 --> 00:15:41,956 Speaker 3: Album sometimes, I mean, the worst question I've been asked 268 00:15:42,116 --> 00:15:45,196 Speaker 3: is why did you make another record? And like I 269 00:15:45,236 --> 00:15:47,916 Speaker 3: think they want me to say because of the pandemic 270 00:15:47,996 --> 00:15:49,556 Speaker 3: or some Yeah, I don't know, Like I don't have 271 00:15:49,596 --> 00:15:52,556 Speaker 3: a I don't have a good answer. I was just like, 272 00:15:52,636 --> 00:15:55,276 Speaker 3: I don't know. I was bored. I don't know what 273 00:15:55,396 --> 00:15:58,196 Speaker 3: else to do. Yeah, I don't know. I think it's 274 00:15:58,036 --> 00:15:59,716 Speaker 3: it's a difficult question to answer. 275 00:16:00,196 --> 00:16:02,876 Speaker 2: It seems miraculous, like for some I don't make music, 276 00:16:02,996 --> 00:16:06,676 Speaker 2: and it seems like to create something out of nothing 277 00:16:06,836 --> 00:16:09,116 Speaker 2: just seems yeah, incredible. 278 00:16:10,396 --> 00:16:12,476 Speaker 3: Yeah, but it is like, uh, yeah, you make you know, 279 00:16:12,596 --> 00:16:15,876 Speaker 3: you you make something in a space I wasn't there before, 280 00:16:15,956 --> 00:16:18,476 Speaker 3: and that's it's like you made a roomers. 281 00:16:18,756 --> 00:16:21,796 Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna take a quick break and then 282 00:16:21,836 --> 00:16:24,436 Speaker 1: come back with more from Kim Gordon and Li Ros. 283 00:16:29,156 --> 00:16:30,996 Speaker 1: Here's Kim Gordon with Lea Rose. 284 00:16:31,916 --> 00:16:35,356 Speaker 2: So yeah, so back to the dissonance Somewhere. I heard 285 00:16:35,396 --> 00:16:38,956 Speaker 2: you say that you felt like extreme noise and dissonance 286 00:16:39,036 --> 00:16:43,556 Speaker 2: can be really cleansing. Yeah, do you remember when that 287 00:16:43,636 --> 00:16:44,556 Speaker 2: first struck you. 288 00:16:45,916 --> 00:16:49,956 Speaker 3: Probably driving around uh in Western mass in this you know, 289 00:16:49,996 --> 00:16:52,436 Speaker 3: in my car and this everything covered in snow and 290 00:16:52,596 --> 00:16:55,996 Speaker 3: just kind of yeah, it's not sentimental, it's not emotional, 291 00:16:56,076 --> 00:16:58,836 Speaker 3: it's not I don't know, and it's just like looking 292 00:16:58,876 --> 00:17:02,316 Speaker 3: at suburbia, you know, it's just kind of like, I 293 00:17:02,436 --> 00:17:05,156 Speaker 3: just want something to cut through this. This is kind 294 00:17:05,156 --> 00:17:08,396 Speaker 3: of depressing. I was just like that idea. I could 295 00:17:08,396 --> 00:17:11,236 Speaker 3: be driving around this super bin l like, I mean, 296 00:17:11,276 --> 00:17:14,236 Speaker 3: some of a beautiful landscape, but then some of the 297 00:17:14,236 --> 00:17:18,436 Speaker 3: suburban parts, you know, depressing. And how kind of funny 298 00:17:18,676 --> 00:17:21,036 Speaker 3: you know about music that you can just have it 299 00:17:21,076 --> 00:17:24,756 Speaker 3: in your head and be it can contrast so much 300 00:17:24,796 --> 00:17:27,396 Speaker 3: with what's going on around you, and it creates its 301 00:17:27,436 --> 00:17:33,396 Speaker 3: own Yeah it's sounds stupid, but it creates its own architecture, environment, 302 00:17:33,636 --> 00:17:35,396 Speaker 3: space and transports you. 303 00:17:35,556 --> 00:17:38,276 Speaker 2: So you said that before you started making the album, 304 00:17:38,316 --> 00:17:40,316 Speaker 2: you want to do something that was more beat driven. 305 00:17:41,076 --> 00:17:43,556 Speaker 2: Do you remember why you wanted to do that. 306 00:17:44,236 --> 00:17:46,956 Speaker 3: Because I feel like, yeah, I'm inspired by rhythm I 307 00:17:47,036 --> 00:17:51,476 Speaker 3: really like And when I first started playing with these 308 00:17:51,516 --> 00:17:55,276 Speaker 3: two girls, when I first started playing guitar back in 309 00:17:55,596 --> 00:18:00,196 Speaker 3: nineteen eighty or something. It was for this artist, Dan 310 00:18:00,316 --> 00:18:04,836 Speaker 3: Graham's art performance. It's called mirror performance audience, where he'd 311 00:18:04,876 --> 00:18:08,196 Speaker 3: have a mirror standing behind a huge mirror, like a 312 00:18:08,236 --> 00:18:12,396 Speaker 3: giant wall mirror, and he would just stand there and 313 00:18:12,476 --> 00:18:18,316 Speaker 3: describe the audience their gestures, they're shifting in their seats, 314 00:18:18,636 --> 00:18:21,836 Speaker 3: and then he would turn around and describe himself in 315 00:18:21,876 --> 00:18:24,836 Speaker 3: the mirror, harving the audience. It was all very self conscious, 316 00:18:24,836 --> 00:18:26,876 Speaker 3: and he wanted to do the piece with an all 317 00:18:26,876 --> 00:18:30,956 Speaker 3: girl band because he was writing articles about the slits 318 00:18:30,996 --> 00:18:35,596 Speaker 3: and feminism and rock and all this stuff. So he 319 00:18:35,636 --> 00:18:38,996 Speaker 3: introduced me to this school Miranda sat and Miranda and 320 00:18:39,596 --> 00:18:43,796 Speaker 3: we started playing, and then this other musician, Christine Han, 321 00:18:43,956 --> 00:18:47,876 Speaker 3: joined us. But it was my idea was like a 322 00:18:47,956 --> 00:18:50,836 Speaker 3: drum machine with someone taught me how to play like 323 00:18:51,396 --> 00:18:55,916 Speaker 3: half jazz chorts, just like pretting the bottom three strings, 324 00:18:56,116 --> 00:19:00,636 Speaker 3: so kind of doing that and then getting lyrics from 325 00:19:00,676 --> 00:19:06,636 Speaker 3: like women's magazines ads for different colored lipstick. And there 326 00:19:06,676 --> 00:19:09,396 Speaker 3: was like a talking song that we did that is 327 00:19:09,836 --> 00:19:13,276 Speaker 3: taken from kind of this first person text on the 328 00:19:13,396 --> 00:19:18,556 Speaker 3: back of Cosmopolitan's, like I'm a Cosmopolitan girl and I 329 00:19:18,796 --> 00:19:21,956 Speaker 3: describing the whole thing anyway, So that was a song. 330 00:19:22,196 --> 00:19:24,236 Speaker 3: So I kind of like from the very beginning I 331 00:19:24,316 --> 00:19:25,516 Speaker 3: sort of did that. 332 00:19:25,916 --> 00:19:28,676 Speaker 2: Anyway, Was that around the same time you were writing 333 00:19:29,036 --> 00:19:32,076 Speaker 2: for you started writing for magazines in New York. Yeah, 334 00:19:32,556 --> 00:19:35,996 Speaker 2: so you were writing about male bonding and what happens 335 00:19:36,076 --> 00:19:40,396 Speaker 2: between men on stage in bands. Was that the actual 336 00:19:40,436 --> 00:19:43,236 Speaker 2: impetus of you joining what became Sonic Youth. 337 00:19:44,236 --> 00:19:47,876 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, Dan was writing these are articles about women 338 00:19:47,876 --> 00:19:52,036 Speaker 3: in rock, and so to be sort of rebellious, I thought, 339 00:19:52,076 --> 00:19:54,796 Speaker 3: I'm going to write about men in rock. But there 340 00:19:54,876 --> 00:20:01,036 Speaker 3: was this composer Rhese Chatham who was influenced by but Lama. Yeah, 341 00:20:01,036 --> 00:20:04,596 Speaker 3: he started with leam, but he applied it to electric guitar. 342 00:20:04,796 --> 00:20:07,876 Speaker 3: So he and he told Glen Bronca. So they were 343 00:20:07,916 --> 00:20:12,876 Speaker 3: both doing kind of writing pieces of music with open etuning. 344 00:20:13,436 --> 00:20:17,996 Speaker 3: So Reese had this piece called Guitar Trio. It was 345 00:20:18,196 --> 00:20:19,996 Speaker 3: so what they would do is they would take a 346 00:20:20,076 --> 00:20:23,916 Speaker 3: hit of anal nitrate, this stuff called locker room. It 347 00:20:24,036 --> 00:20:27,516 Speaker 3: was a popular drug in the West Village among sort 348 00:20:27,516 --> 00:20:30,196 Speaker 3: of a gay community. They would take a hit of 349 00:20:30,196 --> 00:20:36,396 Speaker 3: that and then downstroke on the guitar wars and in 350 00:20:36,476 --> 00:20:39,956 Speaker 3: this rhythm. Anyway, So the first thing I wrote was 351 00:20:40,236 --> 00:20:42,956 Speaker 3: just a description of that performance. It was very short. 352 00:20:43,116 --> 00:20:46,956 Speaker 3: It is called Trash, Drugs and Male Bonding. It was 353 00:20:46,956 --> 00:20:49,956 Speaker 3: for this art magazine called Real Life. Yeah, and then 354 00:20:49,996 --> 00:20:54,156 Speaker 3: I wrote longer pieces have been involved a group of 355 00:20:54,276 --> 00:20:57,636 Speaker 3: male artists. Whatever. But in order to do my research, 356 00:20:57,756 --> 00:21:01,716 Speaker 3: I read books by John Retchie because I couldn't really 357 00:21:01,796 --> 00:21:07,076 Speaker 3: find any material that described that talked about male sexuality 358 00:21:07,076 --> 00:21:11,036 Speaker 3: in a certain way. John Retchie books were kind of 359 00:21:11,036 --> 00:21:14,516 Speaker 3: about the gay bar scene in the West Village and 360 00:21:15,636 --> 00:21:18,636 Speaker 3: kind of this idea of needing distance for desire. And 361 00:21:20,116 --> 00:21:23,036 Speaker 3: then yeah, but I did feel like, well, maybe I'll 362 00:21:23,116 --> 00:21:25,836 Speaker 3: learn more about male bonding if I'm in the band 363 00:21:25,996 --> 00:21:29,756 Speaker 3: or something. But I met Thurston through Miranda and we 364 00:21:29,796 --> 00:21:30,996 Speaker 3: started playing music together. 365 00:21:31,916 --> 00:21:34,716 Speaker 2: Do you think the desire to go that far was 366 00:21:35,116 --> 00:21:39,276 Speaker 2: learning what it would actually be like by embedding yourself 367 00:21:39,316 --> 00:21:42,756 Speaker 2: in a real band of boys. Do you think that 368 00:21:42,956 --> 00:21:45,636 Speaker 2: has anything to do with your dad being a sociologist? 369 00:21:46,596 --> 00:21:49,596 Speaker 3: Well? I thought maybe so in retrospect, because he did 370 00:21:49,796 --> 00:21:52,676 Speaker 3: have this book on his bookshelf called Men at Work, 371 00:21:52,716 --> 00:21:55,116 Speaker 3: and I used to look at it and wonder, what's 372 00:21:55,156 --> 00:21:57,396 Speaker 3: that about it? And why isn't there a one that's 373 00:21:57,436 --> 00:22:01,276 Speaker 3: as women in Work or something? But yeah, I don't know. 374 00:22:01,316 --> 00:22:03,476 Speaker 3: I guess you know in a way that a lot 375 00:22:03,516 --> 00:22:06,356 Speaker 3: of lyrics on the record are kind of stemmed from 376 00:22:06,796 --> 00:22:11,996 Speaker 3: a sort of sociological kind of observe interest, and some 377 00:22:12,076 --> 00:22:14,316 Speaker 3: of it is emotionally reactive. 378 00:22:14,916 --> 00:22:18,796 Speaker 2: Did you actually ever learn, like, did you ever get 379 00:22:18,796 --> 00:22:20,876 Speaker 2: the knowledge that you were seeking in the beginning, like 380 00:22:21,036 --> 00:22:25,236 Speaker 2: what happens between men on stage in bands? Did you 381 00:22:25,316 --> 00:22:27,796 Speaker 2: have any big takeaways from being in the band for 382 00:22:27,836 --> 00:22:28,316 Speaker 2: so long? 383 00:22:29,916 --> 00:22:33,916 Speaker 3: Not really actually, I mean no, nothing that surprised me. 384 00:22:34,556 --> 00:22:38,956 Speaker 3: But there's a difference between playing bass and electric guitar, 385 00:22:39,796 --> 00:22:43,596 Speaker 3: I think, and maybe it has to do with this 386 00:22:43,756 --> 00:22:47,276 Speaker 3: sound you get from electric guitar, but it definitely feels 387 00:22:47,316 --> 00:22:51,276 Speaker 3: like this more of a sense of power, and you know, 388 00:22:51,476 --> 00:22:56,396 Speaker 3: just electricity is kind of an interesting thing to use 389 00:22:56,436 --> 00:22:59,556 Speaker 3: that way, and you can subvert it with your body 390 00:22:59,636 --> 00:23:02,516 Speaker 3: and move with your body and some of those heroic 391 00:23:02,636 --> 00:23:07,196 Speaker 3: gestures windmills and things like that. It become staples of 392 00:23:07,836 --> 00:23:09,916 Speaker 3: you know, arena rock or just like a kind of 393 00:23:09,996 --> 00:23:13,196 Speaker 3: rock or like they do something to the sound in 394 00:23:13,236 --> 00:23:16,476 Speaker 3: a way, you know. Yeah, But I think it also 395 00:23:16,596 --> 00:23:19,716 Speaker 3: is kind of has to do with people playing in 396 00:23:19,756 --> 00:23:23,516 Speaker 3: bigger and bigger places and then make so the gestures 397 00:23:23,556 --> 00:23:27,556 Speaker 3: become bigger, more perform more performative or something. 398 00:23:27,796 --> 00:23:29,716 Speaker 2: But now it sounds like you play with mostly women. 399 00:23:30,556 --> 00:23:33,756 Speaker 3: Yeah, just kind of happened that way. The first incarnation 400 00:23:34,356 --> 00:23:37,876 Speaker 3: of the band was there was a male drummer. This 401 00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:41,516 Speaker 3: guy's serving laws is great. And then after the pandemic, 402 00:23:41,636 --> 00:23:47,276 Speaker 3: you know, people had other commitments, but it's great, Like I, yeah, 403 00:23:47,276 --> 00:23:48,916 Speaker 3: I have so much fun playing with them. 404 00:23:49,676 --> 00:23:53,156 Speaker 2: It sounds like you became more aware of being a 405 00:23:53,156 --> 00:23:56,916 Speaker 2: girl in the band after Sonic Youth was signed to Geffen. 406 00:23:57,996 --> 00:24:00,796 Speaker 2: In your book, you talked about how you would intentionally 407 00:24:00,836 --> 00:24:02,396 Speaker 2: center yourself on stage. 408 00:24:02,876 --> 00:24:06,076 Speaker 3: I don't really intentionally center myself on stage. That's just 409 00:24:06,676 --> 00:24:10,156 Speaker 3: the way there's someone of that. Oh yeah, no, I 410 00:24:10,156 --> 00:24:12,076 Speaker 3: mean there's nothing to do. I think it has to 411 00:24:12,076 --> 00:24:14,196 Speaker 3: do with separating the two guitars, you know, and having 412 00:24:14,236 --> 00:24:16,116 Speaker 3: the bass in the middle next to the drums. It's 413 00:24:16,156 --> 00:24:18,836 Speaker 3: really what it. I just was when I think in 414 00:24:18,836 --> 00:24:21,876 Speaker 3: my book I was describing being in the center of 415 00:24:21,916 --> 00:24:24,276 Speaker 3: the stage or something. Believe me, it's not what I 416 00:24:24,316 --> 00:24:28,596 Speaker 3: would have first shows. Actually, when we first started going 417 00:24:28,636 --> 00:24:32,956 Speaker 3: to England, you know, in eighty four, maybe that's when 418 00:24:32,956 --> 00:24:37,276 Speaker 3: people started asking was it like being a girl a band, 419 00:24:37,516 --> 00:24:41,836 Speaker 3: and why don't you have like a persona you know, like, 420 00:24:42,316 --> 00:24:45,716 Speaker 3: why aren't you all dressed up like Susie Sue or 421 00:24:45,796 --> 00:24:49,756 Speaker 3: Lady A Lane or somebody. That's when I first started 422 00:24:49,756 --> 00:24:52,436 Speaker 3: becoming for self conscious about it. I guess, yeah. But 423 00:24:52,476 --> 00:24:54,316 Speaker 3: then when we signed to GET and I realized, oh, 424 00:24:54,316 --> 00:24:56,756 Speaker 3: I have this platform. Now that's a little bigger. It's 425 00:24:56,756 --> 00:24:58,996 Speaker 3: not like we were really in the mainstream, and so 426 00:24:59,036 --> 00:25:01,676 Speaker 3: I thought, I have other lots of topics I can 427 00:25:01,716 --> 00:25:06,076 Speaker 3: write about as a woman or a girl, and yeah, like, 428 00:25:06,156 --> 00:25:09,996 Speaker 3: so that's her swimsuit issue. Because also right after we 429 00:25:10,036 --> 00:25:13,196 Speaker 3: signed TOGEP and there was this big me too moment 430 00:25:13,596 --> 00:25:16,156 Speaker 3: that happened between this big A and R guy and 431 00:25:16,196 --> 00:25:20,596 Speaker 3: his secretary. This was a ninety ninety or ninety one 432 00:25:20,716 --> 00:25:21,716 Speaker 3: or something. Oh wow. 433 00:25:22,356 --> 00:25:22,636 Speaker 1: Yeah. 434 00:25:22,636 --> 00:25:25,556 Speaker 2: And then shortly after, I guess a year or so 435 00:25:25,676 --> 00:25:28,716 Speaker 2: after you were signed, you went on tour opening for 436 00:25:28,796 --> 00:25:32,316 Speaker 2: Neil Young. What did that change for Sonic Youth? 437 00:25:32,396 --> 00:25:36,436 Speaker 3: Ultimately, I guess that made our name a little bit 438 00:25:36,476 --> 00:25:40,196 Speaker 3: more known again. You know, people kept asking us what 439 00:25:40,236 --> 00:25:42,796 Speaker 3: it's like to be in the mainstream, and we really weren't. 440 00:25:42,796 --> 00:25:46,356 Speaker 3: And it was quite apparent from Neil's audience that we weren't, 441 00:25:46,876 --> 00:25:49,836 Speaker 3: but I think it did do something and we learned 442 00:25:49,836 --> 00:25:52,436 Speaker 3: how to play on big stages. But we didn't when 443 00:25:52,436 --> 00:25:55,476 Speaker 3: we toured with them. We didn't even have guitar texts, 444 00:25:55,516 --> 00:25:58,396 Speaker 3: like we actually had hired these two friends of ours 445 00:25:58,396 --> 00:26:01,716 Speaker 3: who played in a band who never guitar TechEd, and 446 00:26:01,756 --> 00:26:06,116 Speaker 3: we never really got sound checks in the beginning either. 447 00:26:06,236 --> 00:26:09,876 Speaker 3: So for a while, like every guitar Thirston would pick 448 00:26:09,956 --> 00:26:11,636 Speaker 3: up would be out of tune, and then he would 449 00:26:11,836 --> 00:26:15,516 Speaker 3: be frustrated and smash it a lot of times. And 450 00:26:15,556 --> 00:26:20,116 Speaker 3: then Neil's guitar tech Larry, who was awesome, would like 451 00:26:20,556 --> 00:26:22,996 Speaker 3: fix it. But it was it was a tough It 452 00:26:23,036 --> 00:26:24,036 Speaker 3: was a tough tour. 453 00:26:24,196 --> 00:26:27,436 Speaker 2: Actually, was that that the first time you played really 454 00:26:27,636 --> 00:26:28,956 Speaker 2: big stadiums And. 455 00:26:29,276 --> 00:26:32,636 Speaker 3: Yeah, and the only show that wasn't seated was I 456 00:26:32,636 --> 00:26:36,236 Speaker 3: think the cow Palace and that was great because our 457 00:26:36,276 --> 00:26:39,956 Speaker 3: fans could come forward, but otherwise it'd be you know, 458 00:26:39,996 --> 00:26:43,756 Speaker 3: empty seats are like a hippie give me the finker 459 00:26:43,836 --> 00:26:44,276 Speaker 3: or something. 460 00:26:46,796 --> 00:26:48,676 Speaker 1: After this quick break, we'll be back with the rest 461 00:26:48,716 --> 00:26:55,516 Speaker 1: of Kim Gordon and Lea Rose. We're back with the 462 00:26:55,556 --> 00:26:58,276 Speaker 1: rest of Lea Rose's conversation with Kim Gordon. 463 00:26:59,076 --> 00:27:02,596 Speaker 2: How do you think growing up in la in the sixties, 464 00:27:02,636 --> 00:27:05,556 Speaker 2: how do you think that shaped your point of view 465 00:27:05,676 --> 00:27:06,436 Speaker 2: as an artist. 466 00:27:07,596 --> 00:27:11,076 Speaker 3: Well, it's more like the school I went to did 467 00:27:11,116 --> 00:27:13,796 Speaker 3: a lot to shape me. It was the Lab School 468 00:27:13,796 --> 00:27:17,876 Speaker 3: at UCLA, and it really was a lab school, Like 469 00:27:17,916 --> 00:27:20,836 Speaker 3: it was a lot of learn by doing. There was 470 00:27:20,876 --> 00:27:25,396 Speaker 3: like incredible grounds, you know, like neutrad building design and 471 00:27:25,636 --> 00:27:30,276 Speaker 3: a huge grass area, a huge cement concrete area with 472 00:27:30,356 --> 00:27:33,516 Speaker 3: a gully that ran through the school up into these 473 00:27:33,636 --> 00:27:37,676 Speaker 3: kind of maze of in pathways of brushes and bramble. 474 00:27:37,796 --> 00:27:41,596 Speaker 3: And then there's like an adobe house and a stagecoach 475 00:27:41,676 --> 00:27:45,756 Speaker 3: and an African hut. So when we were studying early California, 476 00:27:45,796 --> 00:27:50,156 Speaker 3: we would make die fabric and make shawls and make 477 00:27:50,356 --> 00:27:55,876 Speaker 3: fringe and grind corn and skin a cow hide, you know, 478 00:27:55,916 --> 00:27:59,076 Speaker 3: and go to Dana Point and throw it off like 479 00:27:59,116 --> 00:28:02,796 Speaker 3: the early settlers and stuff like that. And there was 480 00:28:02,836 --> 00:28:05,556 Speaker 3: like a you know, art program and a music appreciation 481 00:28:05,676 --> 00:28:10,316 Speaker 3: program and a eurythmics class. I loved it, like it 482 00:28:10,396 --> 00:28:14,116 Speaker 3: was great. It didn't prepare me for regular school. 483 00:28:14,196 --> 00:28:17,076 Speaker 2: But what was it like skinning a cow when you 484 00:28:17,116 --> 00:28:18,156 Speaker 2: were were you. 485 00:28:18,116 --> 00:28:21,076 Speaker 3: Like well, we didn't actually skin. We didn't skin the caw. 486 00:28:21,116 --> 00:28:24,196 Speaker 3: We skinned a cow hide. They gave us this hide 487 00:28:24,236 --> 00:28:27,756 Speaker 3: that we stretched out in the sun and then we Yeah, 488 00:28:27,916 --> 00:28:30,116 Speaker 3: I didn't participate in that so much. 489 00:28:31,036 --> 00:28:32,316 Speaker 2: That sounds crazy. 490 00:28:32,436 --> 00:28:34,996 Speaker 3: It was kind of gross, but uh, it was fun 491 00:28:35,036 --> 00:28:37,996 Speaker 3: going to Dana point and pretending. There's a lot of 492 00:28:37,996 --> 00:28:38,996 Speaker 3: pretend stuff. 493 00:28:39,316 --> 00:28:41,196 Speaker 2: And you wrote in your book that you've always known, 494 00:28:41,396 --> 00:28:44,236 Speaker 2: even as young as the age of five, that you 495 00:28:44,276 --> 00:28:45,036 Speaker 2: were an artist. 496 00:28:45,796 --> 00:28:47,756 Speaker 3: Well, I wanted to be an artist. Yeah, I mean 497 00:28:47,796 --> 00:28:50,876 Speaker 3: I didn't really. I wasn't very verbal, but I was 498 00:28:51,076 --> 00:28:54,796 Speaker 3: good with my hands, and I just didn't feel confident 499 00:28:55,196 --> 00:28:59,196 Speaker 3: articulating such because my older brother he was very verbal 500 00:29:00,276 --> 00:29:06,036 Speaker 3: and articulate, but he also was mean, so he would 501 00:29:06,036 --> 00:29:08,796 Speaker 3: make fun of whatever I said and call me stupid. 502 00:29:08,876 --> 00:29:11,716 Speaker 3: And I was afraid of making a mistake, you know. 503 00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:15,636 Speaker 3: So it was mostly like verbal mistake, you know, like 504 00:29:16,316 --> 00:29:19,196 Speaker 3: I didn't have a problem with I was making something, 505 00:29:19,276 --> 00:29:19,476 Speaker 3: you know. 506 00:29:20,196 --> 00:29:23,956 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was curious when you became a mom. After 507 00:29:23,996 --> 00:29:26,836 Speaker 2: hearing about your childhood, you said that you were on 508 00:29:26,876 --> 00:29:30,276 Speaker 2: your own a lot as a child. When you became 509 00:29:30,316 --> 00:29:33,116 Speaker 2: a mom, what type of mom were you? Number One? 510 00:29:33,116 --> 00:29:35,716 Speaker 2: Were you like an anxious mom. Were you sort of 511 00:29:35,756 --> 00:29:39,596 Speaker 2: hands off? And how was your parenting style different than 512 00:29:39,636 --> 00:29:40,516 Speaker 2: how you were raised. 513 00:29:41,276 --> 00:29:46,156 Speaker 3: I was anxious for sure, And I read books, you know, 514 00:29:46,196 --> 00:29:49,996 Speaker 3: if I got stuck with some issue or something, I 515 00:29:49,996 --> 00:29:53,556 Speaker 3: would read a book. Yeah, And my mother always said 516 00:29:53,636 --> 00:29:57,396 Speaker 3: that I was really independent, So that's you know why 517 00:29:57,476 --> 00:30:01,116 Speaker 3: she she encouraged that. You know, Like, so I I 518 00:30:01,156 --> 00:30:03,596 Speaker 3: did that, you know, I mean, would let Coco, you know, 519 00:30:03,636 --> 00:30:06,436 Speaker 3: I wouldn't. I would encourage her to play on her 520 00:30:06,436 --> 00:30:09,956 Speaker 3: own or you know, but I tried to to be 521 00:30:10,116 --> 00:30:14,036 Speaker 3: more present and interactive with her, you know, as far 522 00:30:14,076 --> 00:30:18,076 Speaker 3: as telling her how I felt, Yeah, just talking to 523 00:30:18,156 --> 00:30:18,556 Speaker 3: her more. 524 00:30:18,916 --> 00:30:21,636 Speaker 2: You know, you talked about in your book. You talked 525 00:30:21,636 --> 00:30:23,916 Speaker 2: about when your family moved to Hong Kong when you 526 00:30:23,916 --> 00:30:27,636 Speaker 2: were a young teenager, and the first day you were there, 527 00:30:29,036 --> 00:30:32,236 Speaker 2: you just were sort of like standing there and said 528 00:30:32,276 --> 00:30:35,276 Speaker 2: something like, how am I possibly going to survive here? 529 00:30:36,076 --> 00:30:36,596 Speaker 3: Yeah? 530 00:30:36,676 --> 00:30:39,116 Speaker 2: And I was curious if there's ever been another time 531 00:30:39,116 --> 00:30:41,756 Speaker 2: in your life where you've had a similar reaction to like, 532 00:30:41,916 --> 00:30:44,236 Speaker 2: how am I going to get through this? 533 00:30:45,156 --> 00:30:47,676 Speaker 3: I mean that was definitely it was just such a 534 00:30:47,716 --> 00:30:51,236 Speaker 3: culture shock, you know. It was for some really being 535 00:30:51,236 --> 00:30:56,716 Speaker 3: around property and just just so hot and noisy, and yeah, 536 00:30:56,716 --> 00:30:59,476 Speaker 3: I didn't see anything I recognized. I didn't see any 537 00:30:59,916 --> 00:31:04,396 Speaker 3: popular culture. You know, it was way before globalization, and 538 00:31:05,196 --> 00:31:06,796 Speaker 3: I don't know, I guess you know. When my marriage 539 00:31:06,836 --> 00:31:09,676 Speaker 3: broke up, that was difficult, you know, like, am I 540 00:31:09,716 --> 00:31:14,116 Speaker 3: going to get through this? Yeah, it's just overwhelming. Yeah. 541 00:31:14,796 --> 00:31:16,636 Speaker 3: When I first moved to New York, that was kind 542 00:31:16,636 --> 00:31:19,476 Speaker 3: of tough too, like not having a lot of money, 543 00:31:20,836 --> 00:31:25,116 Speaker 3: and I think I got like some accident settlement which 544 00:31:25,116 --> 00:31:28,916 Speaker 3: helped me have enough money to get an apartment. But 545 00:31:28,996 --> 00:31:31,036 Speaker 3: before that, it was every two months I was subletting 546 00:31:31,076 --> 00:31:34,196 Speaker 3: and moving around, and I never had a backup plan. 547 00:31:34,276 --> 00:31:37,516 Speaker 3: I didn't have like I purposely never learned to type. 548 00:31:38,516 --> 00:31:41,036 Speaker 3: I love that I want to be a secretary, and 549 00:31:41,116 --> 00:31:44,436 Speaker 3: I was like, what an idiot I was. Yeah, somehow 550 00:31:44,436 --> 00:31:48,476 Speaker 3: I just never really doubted that I would just end 551 00:31:48,556 --> 00:31:49,156 Speaker 3: up okay. 552 00:31:49,556 --> 00:31:51,796 Speaker 2: So you never had a point in life where you're like, Okay, 553 00:31:51,876 --> 00:31:55,396 Speaker 2: I'm ditching this and I'm just going to go, like 554 00:31:55,956 --> 00:31:57,996 Speaker 2: get a nine to five Yeah. 555 00:31:58,196 --> 00:32:01,516 Speaker 3: Never, I mean I tried when I lived in LA 556 00:32:01,636 --> 00:32:05,916 Speaker 3: At one point I worked as a custom framer, and 557 00:32:06,076 --> 00:32:09,036 Speaker 3: that was really just hard having a nine to five child, 558 00:32:09,356 --> 00:32:11,356 Speaker 3: I get it. I guess sick a lot. 559 00:32:11,956 --> 00:32:13,796 Speaker 2: If you're in a situation like that and you're getting 560 00:32:13,796 --> 00:32:15,636 Speaker 2: sick a lot, do you look at it like, oh, 561 00:32:15,676 --> 00:32:17,796 Speaker 2: this is my body telling me I'm doing the wrong thing. 562 00:32:18,356 --> 00:32:19,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. 563 00:32:19,916 --> 00:32:22,316 Speaker 2: In your book, you talked about when you were first 564 00:32:22,556 --> 00:32:26,636 Speaker 2: living in New York City and people, maybe it was 565 00:32:26,716 --> 00:32:28,916 Speaker 2: just one person would call you a hippie and it 566 00:32:28,956 --> 00:32:30,436 Speaker 2: would just like drive you crazy. 567 00:32:31,396 --> 00:32:34,516 Speaker 3: Oh well that was my friend Dan. Oh No. What 568 00:32:34,596 --> 00:32:39,836 Speaker 3: he did is he told the landlord, this Belgian man 569 00:32:40,556 --> 00:32:43,756 Speaker 3: who he called himself a captive landlord, because he couldn't 570 00:32:43,876 --> 00:32:46,756 Speaker 3: raise the rent. You know, a rent was incredibly cheap, 571 00:32:46,796 --> 00:32:49,276 Speaker 3: It's like one hundred and seventy five dollars a month side. 572 00:32:49,716 --> 00:32:52,596 Speaker 3: But he told him that I was a hippie and 573 00:32:52,636 --> 00:32:57,556 Speaker 3: that I might at people crashing at my apartment. Why 574 00:32:57,676 --> 00:32:59,316 Speaker 3: Dan said that, I don't know. 575 00:32:59,596 --> 00:33:01,436 Speaker 2: That's the worst thing to say to a landlord. 576 00:33:01,796 --> 00:33:05,396 Speaker 3: Yeah. He would say things, really unfiltered things sometimes. 577 00:33:06,436 --> 00:33:08,396 Speaker 2: Did you feel like in those early years when you 578 00:33:08,396 --> 00:33:11,636 Speaker 2: were in New York that you had to sort of 579 00:33:12,036 --> 00:33:16,276 Speaker 2: shut off your la neus. Did you feel different than 580 00:33:16,716 --> 00:33:18,316 Speaker 2: the people you were meeting in the scene you were 581 00:33:18,356 --> 00:33:23,556 Speaker 2: in kind of I mean like Reese, this same composer 582 00:33:24,116 --> 00:33:26,356 Speaker 2: who was actually the music director of the Kitchen at 583 00:33:26,356 --> 00:33:26,716 Speaker 2: this time. 584 00:33:27,356 --> 00:33:31,676 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd have these conversations with him and he would say, 585 00:33:31,796 --> 00:33:36,436 Speaker 3: you're You're always going to be look middle class, you know. Yeah, 586 00:33:36,476 --> 00:33:39,356 Speaker 3: I definitely didn't feel very New York in the white 587 00:33:39,436 --> 00:33:40,196 Speaker 3: dressed or anything. 588 00:33:40,636 --> 00:33:43,716 Speaker 2: Did you find yourself changing the way that you looked. 589 00:33:43,956 --> 00:33:46,996 Speaker 3: Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, like, uh, well I didn't 590 00:33:46,996 --> 00:33:51,196 Speaker 3: have contexts, and I had glasses, and I got these 591 00:33:51,236 --> 00:33:55,036 Speaker 3: flip up sunglasses that I would wear that an attempt 592 00:33:55,036 --> 00:33:59,476 Speaker 3: to feel cooler or something disguise the glasses. But I 593 00:33:59,476 --> 00:34:01,916 Speaker 3: couldn't afford contexts. It's so poor. 594 00:34:02,636 --> 00:34:04,316 Speaker 2: So after you were in New York and you started 595 00:34:04,316 --> 00:34:06,836 Speaker 2: to become more established and no more people in the 596 00:34:06,956 --> 00:34:12,316 Speaker 2: art scene. After working at gallery and started making art yourself, 597 00:34:13,236 --> 00:34:15,796 Speaker 2: you were meeting a lot of I guess the art 598 00:34:15,836 --> 00:34:18,356 Speaker 2: scene in New York City in the eighties, that's when 599 00:34:18,396 --> 00:34:22,556 Speaker 2: things got really commercial and artists were blowing up, and. 600 00:34:22,076 --> 00:34:26,796 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was beginning. Yeah, yeah, painting was becoming big. 601 00:34:27,316 --> 00:34:31,956 Speaker 2: With all the successful artists that you've known, successful musicians 602 00:34:31,996 --> 00:34:37,156 Speaker 2: you've known. Is there something or a set of things 603 00:34:37,196 --> 00:34:41,916 Speaker 2: that you can point to that leads to somebody being successful. 604 00:34:43,036 --> 00:34:45,836 Speaker 3: I don't know, I you know, honestly, I can't answer 605 00:34:45,836 --> 00:34:48,956 Speaker 3: that question. I think that you just, you know, have 606 00:34:49,036 --> 00:34:53,716 Speaker 3: to really want something, and so you don't really give 607 00:34:53,796 --> 00:34:56,556 Speaker 3: up or you're just kind of, you know, follow the thread. 608 00:34:56,876 --> 00:34:59,876 Speaker 3: If you can find a thread, that's all you need, 609 00:35:00,516 --> 00:35:01,596 Speaker 3: and maybe you just follow it. 610 00:35:02,476 --> 00:35:05,516 Speaker 2: You described your early days there, or at least yourself, 611 00:35:05,556 --> 00:35:07,996 Speaker 2: like you were sort of unorganized and you felt like 612 00:35:08,076 --> 00:35:08,876 Speaker 2: you were a mess. 613 00:35:09,396 --> 00:35:09,796 Speaker 3: Yeah. 614 00:35:10,476 --> 00:35:13,436 Speaker 2: Do you still feel like that now or was that 615 00:35:13,676 --> 00:35:15,356 Speaker 2: just that point in your life. 616 00:35:16,436 --> 00:35:18,276 Speaker 3: I think it was more at that point in my life. 617 00:35:18,316 --> 00:35:20,876 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm still not a very organized person, but 618 00:35:20,916 --> 00:35:25,956 Speaker 3: it doesn't bother me. I mean, also I come a 619 00:35:26,036 --> 00:35:27,916 Speaker 3: manager house, so that helps. 620 00:35:28,156 --> 00:35:28,476 Speaker 1: I don't know. 621 00:35:28,476 --> 00:35:31,956 Speaker 3: It's just hard when you feel like an outsider to 622 00:35:32,196 --> 00:35:35,636 Speaker 3: a community, you know, and the art community is probably 623 00:35:35,676 --> 00:35:39,516 Speaker 3: the roughest. And then I also felt kind of like 624 00:35:39,556 --> 00:35:42,276 Speaker 3: an outsider to the music scene in a way because 625 00:35:42,796 --> 00:35:46,756 Speaker 3: I was a visual artist and I don't know, like 626 00:35:46,796 --> 00:35:50,796 Speaker 3: I liked playing music, but I didn't feel like I 627 00:35:50,796 --> 00:35:53,156 Speaker 3: guess I felt like middle class, you know, I felt 628 00:35:53,356 --> 00:35:57,236 Speaker 3: I just felt supremely uncool. I felt, you know, like 629 00:35:57,276 --> 00:35:59,916 Speaker 3: you see you around people like wearing all black who 630 00:35:59,996 --> 00:36:02,716 Speaker 3: look incredibly chic, even though black as a color that 631 00:36:02,756 --> 00:36:05,676 Speaker 3: doesn't show dirt and it can be the cheapest clothes 632 00:36:05,676 --> 00:36:08,036 Speaker 3: in the world, but you know, at night in a 633 00:36:08,076 --> 00:36:12,556 Speaker 3: club or yeah, every once else seemed much cooler, you know, 634 00:36:13,316 --> 00:36:17,436 Speaker 3: and stylized in their look, and I wasn't. It wasn't 635 00:36:17,476 --> 00:36:17,916 Speaker 3: like that. 636 00:36:20,076 --> 00:36:22,396 Speaker 2: At that point. Were you looking at people and trying 637 00:36:22,396 --> 00:36:24,596 Speaker 2: to figure out how you would dress, Like would you 638 00:36:24,596 --> 00:36:28,036 Speaker 2: take things from people you would see or was that 639 00:36:28,116 --> 00:36:30,156 Speaker 2: not even something you were interested in. 640 00:36:30,876 --> 00:36:33,276 Speaker 3: I just didn't feel like I could do that all 641 00:36:33,316 --> 00:36:36,996 Speaker 3: black thing at that time. Like I just felt like, yeah, 642 00:36:36,996 --> 00:36:38,916 Speaker 3: this is not me or that's too easy, you know, 643 00:36:39,996 --> 00:36:42,156 Speaker 3: Like I had, like I bought a pair of these 644 00:36:42,236 --> 00:36:46,596 Speaker 3: pink like pat and leather and swayed knee boots at 645 00:36:46,716 --> 00:36:49,676 Speaker 3: uh nine to nine records for ten dollars, you know, 646 00:36:50,476 --> 00:36:53,516 Speaker 3: so I would wear those with you know, whatever pants 647 00:36:53,516 --> 00:36:55,916 Speaker 3: I was wearing at the time or something, or like 648 00:36:55,916 --> 00:36:58,076 Speaker 3: it would I have one thing that I kind of 649 00:36:58,076 --> 00:37:00,596 Speaker 3: thought was sort of cool, but I was kind of 650 00:37:00,636 --> 00:37:02,916 Speaker 3: hopeless that the whole dressing thing. 651 00:37:03,316 --> 00:37:06,476 Speaker 2: That sounds bold though at least you were taking chances. 652 00:37:06,996 --> 00:37:11,316 Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess so I think I was like stabbing 653 00:37:11,356 --> 00:37:11,916 Speaker 3: in the dark. 654 00:37:12,916 --> 00:37:16,036 Speaker 2: Yeah, outside of music, what else are you working on? 655 00:37:16,636 --> 00:37:19,036 Speaker 3: Not too much? I mean, I you know, doing some 656 00:37:19,116 --> 00:37:22,076 Speaker 3: work in my studio or painting, but I really have 657 00:37:22,156 --> 00:37:25,556 Speaker 3: been pretty caught up with this and memorizing lyrics, so 658 00:37:25,756 --> 00:37:29,756 Speaker 3: it's hard to like change heads. So yeah, I was 659 00:37:29,996 --> 00:37:33,436 Speaker 3: a small book coming out that about my brother. It's 660 00:37:33,476 --> 00:37:36,036 Speaker 3: more of like an art book that Calm Press is 661 00:37:36,076 --> 00:37:39,556 Speaker 3: putting out in March or April. It'll be out and 662 00:37:39,596 --> 00:37:41,876 Speaker 3: it's just kind of a you know, he died last 663 00:37:41,956 --> 00:37:43,836 Speaker 3: year and sort of a celebration. 664 00:37:44,156 --> 00:37:45,196 Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know he died. 665 00:37:45,636 --> 00:37:48,476 Speaker 3: Yeah, he was like us. He was a schizophrenic and 666 00:37:48,556 --> 00:37:51,396 Speaker 3: so he never really got to fulfill his potential in 667 00:37:51,436 --> 00:37:53,996 Speaker 3: any way. And so I often, you know, I've been fun. 668 00:37:54,036 --> 00:37:57,436 Speaker 3: Writing is a good way to make something positive out 669 00:37:57,476 --> 00:38:01,396 Speaker 3: of something and just think about you know. I can't 670 00:38:01,436 --> 00:38:02,916 Speaker 3: think sometimes unless i'm writing. 671 00:38:02,996 --> 00:38:07,436 Speaker 2: So yeah, the writing in your memoir Girl in the 672 00:38:07,476 --> 00:38:11,596 Speaker 2: Band was great. I listened to the audiobook version, which 673 00:38:11,636 --> 00:38:14,156 Speaker 2: I recommend because you can hear you tell your story 674 00:38:14,156 --> 00:38:14,996 Speaker 2: and your own words. 675 00:38:15,156 --> 00:38:16,036 Speaker 3: Oh NICs. 676 00:38:16,356 --> 00:38:21,636 Speaker 2: But yeah, the writing was very direct and poetic. I 677 00:38:21,676 --> 00:38:25,156 Speaker 2: really enjoyed it and was that hard for you to write. 678 00:38:25,916 --> 00:38:28,316 Speaker 3: It was hard to write, and because I also was like, well, 679 00:38:28,436 --> 00:38:31,036 Speaker 3: it wasn't my idea to begin with it. I think 680 00:38:31,076 --> 00:38:35,076 Speaker 3: after the success of Patti Smith's book, people were looking around, 681 00:38:35,196 --> 00:38:38,596 Speaker 3: like who else would be good? And then I was 682 00:38:38,916 --> 00:38:40,796 Speaker 3: when I was trying to write, It's like, I don't 683 00:38:40,796 --> 00:38:43,036 Speaker 3: really want to write about myself. So I tried to 684 00:38:43,036 --> 00:38:46,156 Speaker 3: make it like a portrait of la in the sixties, 685 00:38:46,156 --> 00:38:50,316 Speaker 3: seventies in New York in the eighties nineties. Yeah, and 686 00:38:51,316 --> 00:38:53,596 Speaker 3: like halfway through, I thought, oh, these should be essays. 687 00:38:53,676 --> 00:38:56,316 Speaker 3: That would have been a better, more enjoyable form, and 688 00:38:56,556 --> 00:38:58,836 Speaker 3: so I decided the way to write about the band 689 00:38:58,876 --> 00:39:02,196 Speaker 3: would just be to pick songs that I sang and 690 00:39:02,236 --> 00:39:05,396 Speaker 3: then write things around them, kind of more an essay form. 691 00:39:05,876 --> 00:39:08,316 Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought it was really excellent. Was it hard 692 00:39:08,396 --> 00:39:11,396 Speaker 2: to get so deeply personal in the book? 693 00:39:11,996 --> 00:39:15,316 Speaker 3: Of course it was, But I felt like I have 694 00:39:15,396 --> 00:39:18,156 Speaker 3: to include this. I don't want the book called book 695 00:39:18,196 --> 00:39:21,996 Speaker 3: to be about this breakup, but it's part of my story, 696 00:39:22,076 --> 00:39:24,236 Speaker 3: and so I have to. It makes sense to put 697 00:39:24,236 --> 00:39:25,076 Speaker 3: it in. 698 00:39:25,316 --> 00:39:25,556 Speaker 1: You know. 699 00:39:25,836 --> 00:39:28,676 Speaker 3: The hardest thing was achieving the right tone for it. 700 00:39:28,956 --> 00:39:32,316 Speaker 3: And you know, I mean just tons of stuff I 701 00:39:32,316 --> 00:39:35,876 Speaker 3: got to put in but just you know, the sort 702 00:39:35,876 --> 00:39:38,916 Speaker 3: of purpose. Actually, one of the hardest things about writing 703 00:39:38,916 --> 00:39:42,956 Speaker 3: it was just figuring out how to explain the art 704 00:39:42,996 --> 00:39:46,916 Speaker 3: world and write about people that because you know, memoirs 705 00:39:46,916 --> 00:39:53,436 Speaker 3: are such a popular culturist thing that writing about artists 706 00:39:53,676 --> 00:39:55,596 Speaker 3: like is it going to be boring or you know, 707 00:39:55,636 --> 00:39:57,796 Speaker 3: like people aren't going to know who anyone is? And 708 00:39:57,876 --> 00:40:01,436 Speaker 3: then but then writing about people who are known sounds 709 00:40:01,516 --> 00:40:06,396 Speaker 3: kind of name droppy, you know, like Sophia Coppola or 710 00:40:06,596 --> 00:40:08,556 Speaker 3: you know, Spike John's or something like that. 711 00:40:08,676 --> 00:40:12,076 Speaker 2: But you know, are the Kurt Cobaine sections? 712 00:40:12,796 --> 00:40:16,996 Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean Kurt was more intertwined in things. 713 00:40:17,276 --> 00:40:20,156 Speaker 3: But anyway, they're just people who I knew at this 714 00:40:20,236 --> 00:40:21,556 Speaker 3: certain point in their life, you know. 715 00:40:22,036 --> 00:40:22,756 Speaker 2: Yeah. 716 00:40:22,796 --> 00:40:25,756 Speaker 3: Anyway, so that was kind of that was hard figuring 717 00:40:25,796 --> 00:40:27,236 Speaker 3: out how to write about that. 718 00:40:27,596 --> 00:40:30,196 Speaker 2: Yeah, I imagine that was a hard press run after that, 719 00:40:30,276 --> 00:40:35,436 Speaker 2: because then you get questions about all the personal stuff, right. 720 00:40:35,836 --> 00:40:41,036 Speaker 3: I remember being on Terry Grosse's show and she was 721 00:40:41,076 --> 00:40:44,036 Speaker 3: pushing me to talk more about it, and I kind 722 00:40:44,076 --> 00:40:47,116 Speaker 3: of said, I think I already said everything I want 723 00:40:47,156 --> 00:40:49,236 Speaker 3: to say about it in the book. Yeah, And she 724 00:40:49,276 --> 00:40:52,116 Speaker 3: didn't like that. At all because she likes to dig, 725 00:40:52,356 --> 00:40:54,716 Speaker 3: you know people that dig, and I don't know, she 726 00:40:54,836 --> 00:40:56,756 Speaker 3: kind of like closed up after that. 727 00:40:57,836 --> 00:40:59,236 Speaker 2: Oh she got pissed off. 728 00:41:00,036 --> 00:41:01,556 Speaker 3: I think she did. Yeah. 729 00:41:01,996 --> 00:41:03,996 Speaker 2: I always like to ask people what they're listening to, 730 00:41:04,676 --> 00:41:07,436 Speaker 2: new music, old music, whatever it is, what you're liking. 731 00:41:08,156 --> 00:41:11,156 Speaker 3: Well, Bill Mason, new record app that I like, it's 732 00:41:11,156 --> 00:41:15,196 Speaker 3: on Drag City. I just watched this really cool movie 733 00:41:15,276 --> 00:41:18,876 Speaker 3: actually called The Black Power Mixtape. 734 00:41:19,076 --> 00:41:19,876 Speaker 2: Oh I've heard of that. 735 00:41:20,196 --> 00:41:25,156 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's based on footage that this these Swedish journalists 736 00:41:25,276 --> 00:41:29,036 Speaker 3: shot from I think sixty one to seventy five or 737 00:41:29,116 --> 00:41:32,956 Speaker 3: something like, are sixty seven to seventy five interviewing a 738 00:41:32,996 --> 00:41:36,716 Speaker 3: lot of you know, Soukley Carmichael and a lot of 739 00:41:36,716 --> 00:41:41,196 Speaker 3: the people involved. But also like the footage of Harlem 740 00:41:41,196 --> 00:41:44,836 Speaker 3: at that time is so cool. But this we'd just 741 00:41:44,876 --> 00:41:49,156 Speaker 3: saying is like it things seem different in a way, 742 00:41:49,876 --> 00:41:53,036 Speaker 3: just you know, the wealth gap and oh yeah, there's 743 00:41:53,076 --> 00:41:57,116 Speaker 3: a scene where these Swedish tourists are going through Harlem 744 00:41:57,156 --> 00:42:00,716 Speaker 3: and the guys explaining to him in Swedish like don't 745 00:42:00,716 --> 00:42:04,076 Speaker 3: get out here and just talking about like the drug 746 00:42:04,196 --> 00:42:07,916 Speaker 3: use and you know, in the meantime, like US government 747 00:42:07,996 --> 00:42:13,196 Speaker 3: is like fed drugs into the Ikta and you know, 748 00:42:13,276 --> 00:42:19,476 Speaker 3: propagated this credible, horrible situation. And anyway, it was fascinating. 749 00:42:19,876 --> 00:42:20,836 Speaker 2: Oh, I'll check that out. 750 00:42:21,116 --> 00:42:24,276 Speaker 3: It has a music contemporary music in it and interviews 751 00:42:24,316 --> 00:42:30,716 Speaker 3: with over voiceovers with different musicians. It's really cool cool. 752 00:42:31,796 --> 00:42:33,836 Speaker 2: Well, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate 753 00:42:33,876 --> 00:42:36,836 Speaker 2: you coming on and talk about the new album and oh. 754 00:42:36,756 --> 00:42:37,876 Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for having me. 755 00:42:40,676 --> 00:42:42,916 Speaker 1: Thanks to Kim Gordon for talking about her career and 756 00:42:42,996 --> 00:42:45,476 Speaker 1: her new album, The Collective. You can hear it along 757 00:42:45,516 --> 00:42:47,956 Speaker 1: with our other favorite Kim Gordon and Sonic Youth songs 758 00:42:48,036 --> 00:42:52,236 Speaker 1: on a playlist at Broken Record podcast dot com. Subscribe 759 00:42:52,276 --> 00:42:55,476 Speaker 1: to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken 760 00:42:55,516 --> 00:42:58,756 Speaker 1: Record Podcast, where we can find all of our new episodes. 761 00:42:59,676 --> 00:43:02,836 Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken 762 00:43:02,876 --> 00:43:05,916 Speaker 1: Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing 763 00:43:05,996 --> 00:43:09,316 Speaker 1: help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is 764 00:43:09,316 --> 00:43:13,556 Speaker 1: Ben tollinany. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. 765 00:43:13,956 --> 00:43:16,756 Speaker 1: If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider 766 00:43:16,796 --> 00:43:21,156 Speaker 1: subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription 767 00:43:21,236 --> 00:43:23,996 Speaker 1: that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four 768 00:43:24,156 --> 00:43:27,396 Speaker 1: ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple 769 00:43:27,476 --> 00:43:31,436 Speaker 1: podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember 770 00:43:31,476 --> 00:43:34,076 Speaker 1: to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app 771 00:43:34,316 --> 00:43:37,076 Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.