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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, Ian Scotto here. Hopefully you're all gearing up

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Speaker 1: for Thanksgiving. Um, I know I am, because I'm not

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Speaker 1: currently in New York as you're hearing this. I'm actually

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Speaker 1: I'm recording this prior in New York. But by the

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Speaker 1: time this goes up, I'll be in Pittsburgh celebrating Thanksgiving

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Speaker 1: with my grandma who lives there, and my uncle and

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Speaker 1: my parents will be there as well, so it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a great Thanksgiving. I know. Um, I don't get

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Speaker 1: to see my grandma often enough, and she's one of

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Speaker 1: the most important people, and being the reliable voice on

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Speaker 1: this podcast, I'm often stuck in New York, which you know,

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Speaker 1: not the worst place to be stuck, but yeah, I

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Speaker 1: gotta be here or else. You guys don't get two

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Speaker 1: shows every week, so I was trying to figure out

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Speaker 1: what am I gonna put up for a while I'm away,

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Speaker 1: And luckily we have some really kick ass members only

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Speaker 1: episodes that we did back when we were behind the paywall,

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Speaker 1: which as many of you know, we got rid of

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Speaker 1: um and so now you have access to all those shows.

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Speaker 1: And I figured a lot of you didn't get a

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Speaker 1: chance to hear when we had on George Hand and

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Speaker 1: it was excellent. Show got a great response from those

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Speaker 1: who heard it. So this is Delta Operator George Hand.

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Speaker 1: He gets really in depth with his work in combating

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Speaker 1: human trafficking. Myself and Jack Murphy hosting this one. And

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Speaker 1: if you guys like these episodes, you can actually check

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Speaker 1: out the full back catalog of episodes now at soft

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Speaker 1: rep dot com, slash radio or soft rep Radio dot us.

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Speaker 1: A lot of you are asking where to get the

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Speaker 1: back episodes. You know, I originally took them off iTunes,

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Speaker 1: so they're kind of gone forever on there, but they're

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Speaker 1: still up on our website and hopefully it's some incentive

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Speaker 1: to join and become a team. Remember when you hear

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Speaker 1: from all these great authors that we have on that

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Speaker 1: are putting out new articles all the time. Uh So,

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Speaker 1: without further ado, this is Delta Operator George Hand getting

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Speaker 1: in depth on human trafficking. Check it out a brute Force.

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Speaker 1: If it doesn't work, you're just not using enough. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to software Radio, Special operations, military news and straight

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Speaker 1: talk with the guys in the community, Army Ranger and

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Speaker 1: Green Beret Jack Murphy at Lasagna. Don't get any on

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Speaker 1: your Marine Scouts sniper Jason del Gandal is just something

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Speaker 1: we believe it. I associate that with taste, but I

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Speaker 1: like freaking chocolate, chimny. Why is it flavor boring the

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Speaker 1: whole libel board level? And now here's your co host

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Speaker 1: and producer of this operation, Ian Scott All Shopperate do

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Speaker 1: one time on Target Jack Murphian Studio and for the

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Speaker 1: first time actually on the podcast. We had him once

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Speaker 1: when we filmed it on Serious George Hank. Yeah, I know.

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Speaker 1: It's ridiculous because we have like a really solid tool

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Speaker 1: of talented people, very interesting people working as writers at

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Speaker 1: Soft Prep, but we haven't had all of them on.

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Speaker 1: We've actually we've had a lot of them on, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of them they haven't been on it, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of them become favorites. Ray away and Is

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Speaker 1: in particular, people like you gotta get him on. They

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Speaker 1: love me the Odissian, people love all of his stories. Um.

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Speaker 1: George is a very very interesting person, did a lot

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Speaker 1: of interesting things and continues to um and uh this.

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Speaker 1: Within the next week, I'm hoping to get contracts from

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Speaker 1: Brandon to give out to five people. One of them

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Speaker 1: is George. UM. To write their write their memoirs that

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Speaker 1: will be publishing through soft Yeah, you know there's George's one,

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Speaker 1: Jim West is one, and so it's happening. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know this. It's happening. Yeah. Uh. And there's a couple

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Speaker 1: others that are unannounced as of yet. Um I know

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Speaker 1: who they are, the exciting cool people. Um did interesting

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Speaker 1: things in the military. But Jim and George are amongst

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Speaker 1: the first generation that will go through the Soft Reap imprint,

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Speaker 1: and that's through St. Martin's right, So this is gonna know, No,

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Speaker 1: it's a different publicly, It'll be a Soft Reap imprint

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Speaker 1: that we control, and the distribution of physical copies to

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Speaker 1: bookstores will be through a major brand publisher. So it

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Speaker 1: will be If I want to pick up Jim West's memoir,

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Speaker 1: It'll be at Barnes and Noble. Sorry, yes, I'm touching

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Speaker 1: Jack's foot if you don't wonder why I'm saying. So,

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Speaker 1: we have this like small desk in front of us.

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Speaker 1: It's not a real studio. Have you ever Have you

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Speaker 1: ever said it like a Starbucks or something like that

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Speaker 1: across from like some girl that kicks you over and

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Speaker 1: over over again. But the worse is the movie theater

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Speaker 1: and that happens. Yeah, the movie theater is bad too.

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Speaker 1: But I mean I've been like trying to work at

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Speaker 1: my laptop and I'm sitting across from a girl and

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Speaker 1: she'll like kick me in the shins. If she's hot.

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Speaker 1: That could lead to some good conversation. But well you're

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Speaker 1: not single. But I don't care. I'm like, man, stop stop, yeah,

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Speaker 1: um all right, So but George George's Buck Jack's book.

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Speaker 1: It'll be available everywhere books are sold. George and Jim,

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Speaker 1: they said, Jack, Yeah, the Jack, the Jack Book. You

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Speaker 1: might have to wait a while longer for I'm I

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Speaker 1: think I'm finally gonna pull the trigger on that, though.

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Speaker 1: I was. We were out at the book released party yesterday,

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Speaker 1: Chris Parronto's book What the Ranger Way. Um, yeah, huge

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Speaker 1: crowd out there. And anyway, I ran into a editor

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Speaker 1: for a major book publisher and started talking about it,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of like reintroduced the idea of it

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Speaker 1: into my mind again. I was like, man, because it's

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Speaker 1: like it's something I'm very reluctant to do. Maybe if

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Speaker 1: I take I think between like the military and all

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Speaker 1: the stuff I've done from for software up. There's some

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Speaker 1: good stories in there. There's some drama, there's some romance,

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Speaker 1: there's some danger. There's me doing a lot of stupid

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Speaker 1: things I probably shouldn't have done, you know. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe I think I'm probably gonna take the

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Speaker 1: plunge on that, but that's down the line. You don't

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Speaker 1: really write a lot of personal stuff. When I look

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Speaker 1: back at it, it's kind of funny. UM, the I've

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Speaker 1: written hundreds and hundreds of articles. The amount of articles

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Speaker 1: about the stuff I did in the military. I think

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Speaker 1: there's two I wrote about the the wedding that we

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Speaker 1: crashed in Iraq. The first operation that my od A

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Speaker 1: participated in was what we crashed a wedding UH, and

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Speaker 1: there's a major bad guy on that one. UM. And

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Speaker 1: then the other operation I wrote about that I was

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Speaker 1: participant in was a joint mission UH that a couple

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Speaker 1: me and one other guy on my O d a

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Speaker 1: IF Iraqi Swat Team guys. We went out with a

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Speaker 1: long range for Conaissance platoon UH conventional Army guys UM

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Speaker 1: and did a joint operation out in the desert for

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Speaker 1: a week. And I wrote, UH, I think a two

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Speaker 1: part story about that, and that was years and years ago.

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Speaker 1: I wrote that, Um, great guys that I worked with

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Speaker 1: is a is a interesting mission, I guess not a

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Speaker 1: lot of action, but um, one of the privates and

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Speaker 1: the worst platoon did find a spot a cache of weapons,

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Speaker 1: a hundred you know, probably a hundred and fifty weapons

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Speaker 1: buried out in the desert and we dug it up

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Speaker 1: and blew it up and it was cool. I'll have

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Speaker 1: to link to this on the show. This is because

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Speaker 1: was didn't you do an article or series called wedding Crashers?

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Speaker 1: It was an article called wedding Crashers. Yeah, because every

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Speaker 1: wedding crashers. Yeah, I'll like to it on on the

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Speaker 1: show for the people listening, which by the way, is

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Speaker 1: only members listening. But that's it, man, Like all of

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Speaker 1: those like crazy missions with range of battalion and even

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Speaker 1: things that happened stateside and training and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of stuff that I just

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Speaker 1: never really talked about. But you've also never, as far

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Speaker 1: as I know, you've never written in an article about transitioning.

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Speaker 1: You've talked about it on the show a little bit. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're right now, I talked about it a little bit

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Speaker 1: on the show, but never never in major detail. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I uh, and then there's a whole like the

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Speaker 1: second half of the book could be in part anyway

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Speaker 1: because it's my story, but it would also be in

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Speaker 1: some ways the soft rep story and how all that

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Speaker 1: came about, and uh, in all the twists and turns involved.

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Speaker 1: And I was telling Brandon last night, I was like,

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Speaker 1: if they ever made a movie about us, it would

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Speaker 1: have some similarities to that movie Social Network about Facebook,

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Speaker 1: you know, because not not that we've gotten like big well,

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Speaker 1: there was a little bit of we did get a lawsuit,

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Speaker 1: we did get sued right by someone I won't but

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Speaker 1: just why we had to take down certain episodes. I

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Speaker 1: won't go into the details of that right now, be

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Speaker 1: of the galities. Um, but my my only point there

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Speaker 1: is that there there's uh, there's definitely the drama. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's all included. It's all in there. And

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Speaker 1: some of those stories are just like stranger than fiction.

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Speaker 1: I guess the only well, the big difference and what

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Speaker 1: that movie is based around is you guys didn't steal

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Speaker 1: the idea for stuff. No, we didn't steal the idea. Um,

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Speaker 1: what happened was that we had somebody, a bit player

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Speaker 1: you could say, in the company decided after we started

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Speaker 1: to become successful that he had a extraordinary influence in

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Speaker 1: making the company successful with the inside the team. He

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Speaker 1: literally moderated a video interview and that was it. Um.

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Speaker 1: But then he decided, after we started becoming successful and

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Speaker 1: selling some advertisements and things like this, he decided that

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Speaker 1: he was the reason why softwarep was successful and and

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Speaker 1: sued us. And uh. And that gentleman apparently has a

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Speaker 1: history of suing his former employers as a as a

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Speaker 1: form of you know, that's his revenue, that's how he

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Speaker 1: makes money. Um. And I've sucked out that. That's about

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Speaker 1: as far as I say. There's actually the actually the

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Speaker 1: we had to settle out of court, um, because it

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Speaker 1: was one of those things it's like, Okay, do we

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Speaker 1: spend a million dollars winning this lawsuit or do we

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Speaker 1: settle for a substantially lower amount of money. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I mean so it would have cost us more money

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Speaker 1: to win. And like I said, part of that was

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Speaker 1: taking down some really great material. That's the one thing

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Speaker 1: that sucks. Yeah, I mean, did we convert some of

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Speaker 1: that into like audio? I think we're going to yeah

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Speaker 1: and take out this guy is individual. Yeah, but I

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Speaker 1: guess the thing I could say for those who might

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Speaker 1: be newer members, The one thing that I think I

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Speaker 1: could say is basically, we had some great material with

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Speaker 1: Chris Kyle who passed away that we no longer have

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Speaker 1: up on the site. But we have rights to Chris

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Speaker 1: Kyle's audio as far as I know, and we we're

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Speaker 1: gonna do something with it. You should convert it into

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Speaker 1: like into an audio file and and put it on

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Speaker 1: the podcast. Yeah. Brandon has mentioned that and hopefully we

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Speaker 1: will at some point, but we've just been doing these

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Speaker 1: live shows, which is uh, which is great, but people

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Speaker 1: do love hearing from Chris and knowing that he was

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Speaker 1: a part of the Inside the Team Room series the

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Speaker 1: first one. Yeah yeah, Um alright, So before we get

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Speaker 1: to George Hand, who, by the way, former U. S.

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Speaker 1: Army Master Sergeant and first Special Special Forces Operational Detachment

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Speaker 1: for Delta Force um s f O D. Yeah, First

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Speaker 1: Special Forces Operational Detachment Delta. Yeah, it's like the long,

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Speaker 1: the long winded name, but everyone knows it just as

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Speaker 1: Delta Force or the unit. Ye. So uh so before

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Speaker 1: we get into him, I saw that the latest article

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Speaker 1: you put up was meeting General sabbin Am I saying

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Speaker 1: it right. Saban an architect of Philippine counterinsurgency. UM. So

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Speaker 1: you got to go to General Saban's sixtieth birthday, who's

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Speaker 1: a Philippine Marine Corps general. And I was reading it

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Speaker 1: this morning and just hearing you casually talk about him

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Speaker 1: plotting the death of Ablu Sabayah while you're a drinking

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Speaker 1: beer eating pig rose for his sixtieth It's it seems

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Speaker 1: like a fun time. It was was. It was a

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Speaker 1: it was a hell of a fun experience. It's funny.

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Speaker 1: I I got introduced to General Simon Um through a

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Speaker 1: mutual friend and uh, and it's you know, I explained

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Speaker 1: to him what I was doing in the Philippines, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd love to meet you and interview you

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Speaker 1: and talk to you about you know, he's retired now.

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Speaker 1: He was the Commandant of the Marine Corps, amongst many

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Speaker 1: many other things he did in the Marines, the Philippine

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Speaker 1: Marines UM. And uh, you know, because it's his style,

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Speaker 1: he's uh, he's like, Okay, you come down and meet me,

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Speaker 1: meet me. You can interview me in the field. It's

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Speaker 1: like what okay. So the next thing I know, I'm

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Speaker 1: on a plane down to Zambuanga in Minda. Now uh

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Speaker 1: get off the airplane. I get met by the plane

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Speaker 1: closed Marine security detachment guys that Saban is arranged to

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Speaker 1: pick me up, and they drive me out to Saban's

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Speaker 1: house in the middle of his sixtieth birthday party and

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Speaker 1: all of his marine friends are there and his family

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Speaker 1: is around him. And this is his you know, private

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Speaker 1: residence and uh and he was you know, super cool,

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Speaker 1: had me over, you know, sitting down next to him,

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Speaker 1: and uh, his his wife. Uh. I was introduced to

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Speaker 1: very sweet woman. Uh like maybe the first thing she

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Speaker 1: asks me, you drink beer, right kind of like yes, ma'am,

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Speaker 1: yes I do. And so we're sitting there drinking San

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Speaker 1: sand meg beer in Zamblanga and he's telling, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're telling all kinds of war stories and things like that.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sitting next to people who planned Operation Ultimatum,

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Speaker 1: which was an amphibious landing that the Marines did again

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Speaker 1: to go target a boost if like stuff I had

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Speaker 1: read about in the past. And and these are the

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Speaker 1: people they're sitting there with me. I'm sitting across from

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Speaker 1: the guy who put the tracking bug and Abu Zabaya's

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Speaker 1: boat um when they targeted him. He was the boost

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Speaker 1: I F spokesman UM during the early years of you

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Speaker 1: know what we are, American War on Terror, so like

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Speaker 1: two thousand two, two thousand three. Um Saban was one

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Speaker 1: of the He is one of the architects of the

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Speaker 1: counterinsurgency strategy in the Philippines. He was one of the

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Speaker 1: people who realized that we can't just go in guns blazing. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We can't win this conflict through arms alone. That we

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Speaker 1: have to actually provide services and provide security for the

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Speaker 1: Philippine people uh and win them over so that they

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Speaker 1: come to the government side. Uh. And it makes the

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Speaker 1: insurgency less appealing. UM. So Saban uh, you know he is. Uh,

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Speaker 1: he's an interesting cat. He talks about how humans are

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Speaker 1: the center of gravity and uh and counterinsurgency strategy and

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Speaker 1: winning the hearts and minds. And I think he's very

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Speaker 1: serious and very sincere about that. But there's two sides

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Speaker 1: of it, right, uh, because I think General Saban can

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Speaker 1: also bring the hammer as well. Yeah, and I think

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Speaker 1: he he brings the heat to a boost YEF and

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Speaker 1: is some of these other groups as well. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: he has such an interesting story too as a young man,

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Speaker 1: as a young officer, he was he participated in the

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Speaker 1: nine Coup in the Philippines, and he was a member

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Speaker 1: of what is called y OU the Young Officers Union,

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Speaker 1: which were the you know, disenfranchised Philippine military officers who

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Speaker 1: who were reformers, um rightly or wrongly though, they were

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Speaker 1: disenfranchised with the government, and they participated in uh. The

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Speaker 1: nine Coup was you know, got fairly ugly. Some of

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Speaker 1: them were bloodless. This one was kind of nasty. Um.

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Speaker 1: So General Saban was senced to prison. I spent some

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Speaker 1: time in jail and received a pardon and after that

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Speaker 1: he was almost as a punishment, he was exiled to

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Speaker 1: the southern Philippines where the insurgencies were. And it turned

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Speaker 1: out to be uh a good fit, you know, General Saban,

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Speaker 1: I think he thrived in that environment. Um. But I uh,

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Speaker 1: the article that we're talking about was just that first

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Speaker 1: night where I first, yea, you you leave a bit

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Speaker 1: of a quite fanger for the next morning where you

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Speaker 1: have to get up after indulging in some alcohol. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: five five in the morning and get on a plane

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Speaker 1: to Tawi Tawi, which is the southernmost island in the

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Speaker 1: Philippines before Malaysia. UM and uh and we went down

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Speaker 1: there for the activation ceremony of second Marine Brigade which

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Speaker 1: is stationed on that island. Uh so again with all

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Speaker 1: of General Saban's friends, active and retired Marine Corps veterans.

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Speaker 1: UM and uh. I also interviewed General Saban and his

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Speaker 1: friends on tape for you know, an hour and a half,

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Speaker 1: two hours about a lot of different subjects. So there's

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Speaker 1: um quite a bit more to talk about and quite

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Speaker 1: a bit more to write. One of the main things,

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Speaker 1: uh is the Aboost sabayah Um how he was killed

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Speaker 1: uh and how that all came about. That's one interesting story.

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Speaker 1: And then also one of the things I want to

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Speaker 1: write about is the Camp Medina raid which was done

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Speaker 1: by Force Rican and General Saban he was in the

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Speaker 1: background of that as a as a staff officer at

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Speaker 1: the time and it was the first real big raid

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Speaker 1: against a boost if so it has a kind of

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Speaker 1: historical aspect to it. I think it was nine two

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Speaker 1: that that raid happened, So I'll go pick through all that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking very forward to the continued articles on it. Um,

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Speaker 1: we gotta get to George though. The one thing I

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Speaker 1: was going to mention in connection with that though, is

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Speaker 1: that just recently, in the past few days, the President

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Speaker 1: of the Philippines, Rodrigo to Arrte, required martial law and

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Speaker 1: he's looking to expand that. So there's a lot happening

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Speaker 1: in the Philippines right now. Then you'll probably be covering. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's an article I wrote today that should be out,

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Speaker 1: if not today, tomorrow about everything happening in morrow We

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Speaker 1: and um. And really it kind of goes to what

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Speaker 1: we talked about on the last podcast about ISIS being

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Speaker 1: a brand, a sort of plug and play brand, and

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Speaker 1: that these these uh bandits in morrow We are really

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Speaker 1: you know, they're just criminals. Are They're all local terrorist group.

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Speaker 1: It's not transnational terrorism, it's not ISIS. And we shouldn't

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Speaker 1: give these groups the credibility or the legitimacy of saying

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Speaker 1: that they're part of some transnational terrorist network or some

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Speaker 1: sort of caliphate that's spreading across the world. That's not

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Speaker 1: what it is at all, um, and we shouldn't recognize

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Speaker 1: them like that. Sure, Um, I have some other great

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Speaker 1: stuff to get to but we'll get to it after

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Speaker 1: George hand because he's he's all set to go. Let's

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Speaker 1: give him a call, Let's bring him on. So joining

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Speaker 1: us for the first time. As I said on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: very few people listening probably remember, but when we filled

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Speaker 1: in on Serious X and we brought on George, that's

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Speaker 1: the only time we had him on air. And we've

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Speaker 1: been remiss in not having him on the podcast a

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Speaker 1: lot sooner. Yeah, and there's been plenty of tweets sent

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Speaker 1: to him of when are you going on the podcast?

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Speaker 1: And George is like, whenever I'm invited on, I'll come on.

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Speaker 1: And I'm trying to invite everybody on. So George is

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Speaker 1: a former U. S. Army Master Sergeant and first Special

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Speaker 1: Forces Operational Detachment for out to Force. He's an expert

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Speaker 1: on counter human trafficking work. And I guess the first

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Speaker 1: thing we could start off with is when I was

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Speaker 1: messaging you this morning talking about what we can get into,

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Speaker 1: you let me know that you just did some work

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Speaker 1: with a human traffic human Traffic Task Force and just

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Speaker 1: made the biggest bus this past week for human trafficking

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Speaker 1: in Albuquerque history. So that's pretty huge. Yeah, it really was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it was a pretty exciting thing. And I

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Speaker 1: think I posted on software one of the pictures that

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Speaker 1: my understudy caught captured of me, and I turned it

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Speaker 1: into a mean and I think I put it on

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Speaker 1: a software Yeah, and I really was, you know, I

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Speaker 1: just I just, I mean, we're in the backyard for

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Speaker 1: the first time, and I just plopped down in this

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Speaker 1: launch area and was just kind of grinning. And I

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Speaker 1: knew I was, but I didn't expect someone to be

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Speaker 1: taking a picture of me. But I probably grinned for

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Speaker 1: about five minute straight. It was just it was that

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Speaker 1: satisfying to to let's find let us think in that

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Speaker 1: they had all three of these people that we went

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Speaker 1: after that morning, and uh, there's a fourth one that's

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Speaker 1: still at large. But oddly enough, he actually showed up

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Speaker 1: to court to watch the kingpin go through an arrangement

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Speaker 1: and uh, and I'm like, why why didn't they why

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Speaker 1: didn't they grab him? And the explanation is very ambiguous.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Uh, the paperwork might not be in order,

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Speaker 1: but um, the kingpin made a full confession, just point blank,

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Speaker 1: and so there's not even going to be a trial.

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Speaker 1: I mean, he's already They basically already sentenced this guy.

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Speaker 1: He's going to get he's gonna get forty years just

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Speaker 1: for the human trafficking piece. But he is involved in

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Speaker 1: two murders. Um. The third person they picked him up,

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Speaker 1: he was right here in Albuquerque again, all that we

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Speaker 1: come from Fort Benning. He's rumored to be the trigger man.

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Speaker 1: But this kingpin, uh, Cornelia Cornelius Galloway, he's the guy

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Speaker 1: that ordered the executions of this young woman and her boyfriend.

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Speaker 1: Why why were they executed? Say jack? Uh? She and

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Speaker 1: her name is Toby Stanfield. And I'm saying these names

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Speaker 1: because they're already showing pictures on the news. Some of

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Speaker 1: the pictures are my pictures, you know, that I put

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Speaker 1: together in reports and sent to the LEO. They never

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Speaker 1: really said anything about the about the reports, but obviously

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Speaker 1: they're they're liking them because they're pulling stuff out and

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Speaker 1: using it. She Um, she got mixed up for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: she got mixed up in prostitution. Then she got mixed

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Speaker 1: up with them in their prostitution ring. And before you

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Speaker 1: know it, uh, you know, she's being held against your

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Speaker 1: will and treated just miserably. They kept her in a

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Speaker 1: kennel at one of the famous motels in town. They

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Speaker 1: kept hring a kennel. They kept another girl. Two other

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Speaker 1: women kept him in kennel's. It would whip the crap

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Speaker 1: out of him with electric chords, and you know, just mistreatment, torture,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. And they were selling them, you know, pimped

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Speaker 1: him out into the cases. The women are underage, um

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Speaker 1: and this okay. So the two younger women they got out,

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Speaker 1: they escaped. Essentially, the leo got hold of him. We

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Speaker 1: put him in a motel for and watched him for

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Speaker 1: several days, just guarded him until he found a place

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Speaker 1: out of state, like a halfway house or a recovery place.

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Speaker 1: We drove one to Houston, Texas, and she's doing well.

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Speaker 1: We drove the second one to Phoenix, Arizona, and she's

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Speaker 1: also doing well. But now that there's not going to

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Speaker 1: be a trial, and I mean the point was we

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Speaker 1: wanted to hold those so they could come back to testify.

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Speaker 1: Since there's not going to be a trial, they're really

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Speaker 1: they're on their own. They're free to come back. And

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Speaker 1: of course the third girl, the one that was killed,

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Speaker 1: she walked out on Galloway, you know, just stepped out

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Speaker 1: and escaped on her own. I just did not want

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Speaker 1: to work for him, and she was freelancing. Her and

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend were freelancing, and she was still, you know, prostituting,

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Speaker 1: So that was contrary to his business. That was competition.

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Speaker 1: He put together a scheme involving his wife and his

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Speaker 1: right hand man. They lured her to an apartment and

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Speaker 1: they capt her in the head. They took her out

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Speaker 1: to a park, and I remember seeing this in the news.

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Speaker 1: I had no idea. I think it was around February January,

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Speaker 1: February time frame. I remember seeing it in the news.

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Speaker 1: It was like, Wow, he found a dead body a woman.

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Speaker 1: That sucks. Hey, it wasn't in my neighborhood. That's that's

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Speaker 1: that's fantastic, you know. But now we've moved all the

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Speaker 1: way across town and it's it's a park that's very

425
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 1: near our house now. But yeah, it's distinctly heard about that.

426
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 1: And I distinctly heard about them finding a body in

427
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: the Motel six offinished State, and that was the boyfriend

428
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: who had also been shot in the head. They were

429
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 1: both murdered because they interfered with the business plan and

430
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: they bucked his system, Yes, exactly. Yeah, you know, try

431
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:27,200
Speaker 1: to freelance out there. I mean there's at a certain

432
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: level independence just don't go over Well, they've got to

433
00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: be assumed by they're gonna be sucked into somebody's network

434
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 1: or they're just they're just not gonna work. You be affiliated, Yeah,

435
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: you have to. Yeah, you have to have an affiliation otherwise,

436
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 1: you know. I mean that's that's at a pretty uh

437
00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 1: poor street level. Uh when you look up to the

438
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: more the higher paid Paul girls, you know that just

439
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,680
Speaker 1: basically jet set around the United States and stay in

440
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,120
Speaker 1: hotels near the airports, you know, they that's a bit

441
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: different story, like yeah, they can actually be independent and

442
00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,159
Speaker 1: keep all their money. But when it's down in the

443
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,440
Speaker 1: street level, uh there there, there's there's no having it.

444
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: And they typically work out of the worst motels, you know,

445
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: on the drag strip. And when things aren't going well,

446
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 1: like on back page, if they're just not getting any

447
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 1: hits on back page, we we see him walking out

448
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: on the strip on Central and we know that you know,

449
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: well things are going well on back Page because there

450
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:33,199
Speaker 1: she is walking well. Congratulations George on uh on, you know,

451
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,520
Speaker 1: being a part of this big bust. I mean, it's

452
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: great work. And I was wondering if we could just

453
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,719
Speaker 1: backtrack a little bit and uh, because I wanted to

454
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:46,080
Speaker 1: ask you about, you know, your experiences in the unit.

455
00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:48,679
Speaker 1: Now I know you were a wreckie guy, um, and

456
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,399
Speaker 1: talk about how some of those skills transferred over into

457
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 1: your work and counter human trafficking, or or if they

458
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 1: didn't transfer. Um, but you know, get a little bit

459
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: into uh, I guess, a little bit into the weeds

460
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 1: about how all that panned out for you. Um. Well,

461
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 1: it's uh. I mean the boss, Nick McKinley, he knew

462
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 1: that he wanted people. He wanted spec ops guys, and

463
00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:21,120
Speaker 1: he wanted he wanted guys that were mature. He didn't

464
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,919
Speaker 1: want young guys fresh out of the unit that are

465
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 1: ready to you know, trigger happy three to kick down

466
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: doors and all this stuff. He wanted guys. I actually

467
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: explained it to him before he accepted my definition. I said, Hey,

468
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: you know, Nick, I've kind of had all the excitement

469
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,200
Speaker 1: I want to have, so I'm not interested in going

470
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: out and you know, like fist fighting some pimp. Um.

471
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:44,919
Speaker 1: You know, when I go to take my kids to

472
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: the Disneyland, I I go on the merry go around

473
00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: with him. I I buck I buckle up that that

474
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:54,679
Speaker 1: leather belt, that sleep and I hang on. You know,

475
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:56,760
Speaker 1: I'm not the cool guy standing there, you know, with

476
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,280
Speaker 1: his legs crossed leaning against the horse. Yeah. But and

477
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: he's really he's really pleased to hear that. Um but

478
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,359
Speaker 1: he that's he knew he wanted guys like like like you, Jack,

479
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 1: like me, and he's and that's still really the only

480
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,680
Speaker 1: people he's interested in, just because of the skill set,

481
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: I mean, the wrecky skill set being out in the

482
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: field or urban And you know, if I've done a

483
00:27:19,000 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: lot of operations in urban environments, m most I would

484
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: say most of my the vast majority of my wrecky

485
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: experience took place in the Balkans and specifically in Bosnia.

486
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,439
Speaker 1: So I did in fact, I did zero rural recky.

487
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: Everything was urban and um, you know, we we did

488
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: everything from putting a guy in the back of delivery

489
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 1: truck that had some blacked out windows to sit in

490
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: there and and physically operate a camera, you know, to

491
00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 1: to film certain people that we're looking for. So that's

492
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 1: a mando p uh. And then we had anything that

493
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: you could imagine or that you could create in terms

494
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: of a remote um uh camera mounted in a car

495
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: in different configurations that you know, cars that we would

496
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,400
Speaker 1: just park somewhere, have a way to kind of site

497
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:20,119
Speaker 1: them in on the field of view that we wanted

498
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,400
Speaker 1: to capture, and then leave the car for twenty four

499
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,200
Speaker 1: hours and they would be videoing let's say the front

500
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,200
Speaker 1: door of a motel or the front door of a

501
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: house and for four hours. Yeah, we'd go pick that

502
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: up and then just watch the film. And George, just

503
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: just to interrupt real quick, just for the listeners who

504
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: don't necessarily know what you're talking about, especially the millennials

505
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: out there who are like, what in the world is

506
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,880
Speaker 1: George talking about? In the nineties, we were sending guys

507
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,120
Speaker 1: to Bosnia looking for Bosnian war criminals. I mean, that's

508
00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: that's what we're what we're you're talking about here, isn't it, George? Yes,

509
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:59,479
Speaker 1: it is wish person who die in for war crimes.

510
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 1: So you know you were you were involved in all

511
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: that with a unit. Uh. And then how did how

512
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: did these skills come in handy um working counter human

513
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: trafficking in the United States? Well, um, it serves me

514
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: and that I know how to uh, for one thing.

515
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: I know how to deck out my truck and turn

516
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 1: it into a hid site, a mobile hide site, and um,

517
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,560
Speaker 1: I've got we found it oddly enough. You know, you

518
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: go to home depot and you go look at some

519
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: weed barrier. It's that barrier you put down on the

520
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: dirt before you put rocks and garden, and it keeps

521
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: the weeds from growing up underneath. Well, that stuff is

522
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,440
Speaker 1: poorous material. You know, it'll let it lets water through,

523
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,360
Speaker 1: but it won't let a plant through. If you're hang

524
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 1: that over your windows in certain configurations, you can still

525
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,560
Speaker 1: see out pretty well, but persons on the outside there

526
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 1: there's not likely to be able to see insight and

527
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: see a silhouette of a person set in there. So

528
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:04,719
Speaker 1: I've in my vehicle, I mean I've I've got my

529
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:09,440
Speaker 1: truck decked out permanently. I drive around with my height

530
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 1: sight up. Um, and I have curtains that I can

531
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,080
Speaker 1: deploy in just less than a second, you know, just

532
00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: give a tug and they fall down. I have one

533
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: that falls down covers the complete dash. I feel like

534
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: you should be a great software article, just like inside

535
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:29,120
Speaker 1: George's vehicle. Yeah, I actually have a set of pictures

536
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:32,400
Speaker 1: that I started to do that article. I think it

537
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:36,360
Speaker 1: was Nick Kaufman was had written something about surveillance. It

538
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:39,320
Speaker 1: was a good article about surveillance, and I thought about

539
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: throwing my two cents worth because I do a lot

540
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: of countersurveillance surveillance SDRs. I mean, each time I go

541
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 1: after uh A target, I gotta do an SDR on

542
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 1: the way out there, and I gotta do an SDR

543
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 1: on the way back. And an SDR is a surveillance

544
00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: detection route or a burn run. It's designed to I mean,

545
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: we would kind of skip the we go right into

546
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,960
Speaker 1: the provocative and aggressive maneuvers. In other words, we do

547
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 1: some really aggressive turns that if somebody were to follow you,

548
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: we're trying to follow you, if they were to do

549
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 1: that same turn, it would completely compromise the fact that

550
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: they're trying to follow you. And if they did not

551
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: want you to know that they were following you, then

552
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 1: they have to skip that turn and now they've lost you.

553
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: So and I that's all stuff that I, you know,

554
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: went over again and again in training to get into

555
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 1: the unit, and I had to go through it all

556
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: over again when I went into the bad Von Squadron

557
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: or the Advanced Force Operations squadron Um just I have.

558
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,560
Speaker 1: I have a lot of it under my belt, and

559
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: it just it feels second nature to me to do

560
00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: it a lot of them. Tube. I'm sorry, go ahead, George,

561
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: I was gonna say the I mean, I my a

562
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 1: height sight in my try is it's in. It's it's

563
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 1: it's in. Like it's second revision right now, the first one. Yeah,

564
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,239
Speaker 1: I mean, sitting in there for hundreds of hours, just

565
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,840
Speaker 1: you know, it's sometimes you just sit there and stare

566
00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: at your nets and think, you know, this could be

567
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 1: a whole lot better, and I should do this, and

568
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 1: I should do that. So I actually revamped it just

569
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 1: just one week ago, and there there's so much more

570
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 1: efficient and I I can ride with these nets all

571
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: the way down, but I'll only do it in on

572
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: US residential streets. If I'm going out onto a boulevard,

573
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, or an avenue, then I pull those nets

574
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 1: up because it's just it's just not safe. But I

575
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 1: can creep around on residential streets with all my nets down.

576
00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,479
Speaker 1: And in some cases, I mean, if you're looking from

577
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: the side, you're looking through five barriers, you're looking through

578
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,200
Speaker 1: two tinted windows. Two black nets and then a third

579
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 1: black net in the middle. I mean it is dark

580
00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: in there. You I can turn on my I can

581
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: turn on my uh cabin light because I've got a

582
00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: red filter over it. I can turn that on and um,

583
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: you can't see it from the outside. So you've got

584
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: a pretty good surveillance operation going. And would you say

585
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: that's the bulk of your work is trying to keep

586
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,960
Speaker 1: tabs on it. Because another thing that I think it's

587
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 1: interesting here is, you know, the difference between working in

588
00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: a military capacity in uh, in an environment overseas and

589
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 1: now you're working kind of augmenting law enforcement, uh, you know,

590
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 1: domestically here in the United States. Um, well, what do

591
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:40,280
Speaker 1: you think that the difference in the dynamics are. Um,

592
00:33:40,320 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 1: I'm not really sure how to answered that. Jack. Um,

593
00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:48,400
Speaker 1: I know that the pucker factor was definitely higher, excuse

594
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 1: me overseas. And I mean I don't feel I don't know,

595
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:56,360
Speaker 1: I don't I rarely ever feel endangered when I'm doing

596
00:33:56,400 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 1: these operations here in the city. This last ones, I mean,

597
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: these these guys are you know, they are known murderers,

598
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,960
Speaker 1: so we knew they were shooters, and uh, um it

599
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: did affect it did affect the way we did to

600
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: our business a little bit. When we're always carrying I

601
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: was carrying, um. But we were really help bent on

602
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 1: getting a beacon on this guy's car because we didn't.

603
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:26,719
Speaker 1: I mean, we'd already set up on him for like

604
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,320
Speaker 1: four days, watching his residents, and it was getting harder

605
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 1: to sit set up in that neighborhood. When I got

606
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: kicked out of a parking spot at least one time

607
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 1: by a guy that said I was parked in his

608
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: girlfriend's parking spot. I'm like, okay, sir, I'm gonna move,

609
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,439
Speaker 1: you know, And I had to move, and I go, well,

610
00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:45,719
Speaker 1: if I have to move a couple of times, we're

611
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:47,279
Speaker 1: probably not going to be able to set up in

612
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 1: this neighborhood anymore. Um. So we really wanted to beak

613
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: in it so we didn't have to set up and

614
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: watch him anymore. Just watch his beacon moved through town,

615
00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: and if it stops, the closest guy to him can

616
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: go ahead and drive on out there and see where

617
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 1: he stopped and why, and then who's with him and

618
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: that sort of thing, um, and how the dynamics carry over.

619
00:35:11,840 --> 00:35:14,399
Speaker 1: Like I said that there, there's really not that much

620
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: of the pucker factor. I can do much more stuff

621
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 1: by myself than I would dare have done overseas by

622
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: myself permissive environment. Fact, I never did anything by myself

623
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 1: because it's just you don't do it. You don't cross

624
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:33,800
Speaker 1: the zone of separation into bad guy territory by yourself. Um.

625
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: And that that that's what brought up that article about

626
00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: Bob Horrigan and I did. We did that swim under

627
00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 1: the bridge to try to recover surveillance camera. Yeah, so

628
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: you can get away with a lot more in a

629
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,879
Speaker 1: permissive environment like the United States, and in every case. Yeah,

630
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:54,560
Speaker 1: can you talk a lot at all about how this

631
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: case came to fruition? I mean, how you kind of

632
00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: got it to the point where the police were able

633
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,920
Speaker 1: to make an arrest and you were able to were

634
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: you able to get that beacon on the car? Um? Interesting?

635
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:12,200
Speaker 1: Interesting enough? Now this car was a BMW and uh,

636
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: my understudy was Matt Finney. He's he was going to

637
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,279
Speaker 1: be the guy to beacon that that BMW was at

638
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:25,680
Speaker 1: the end of a long, dark driveway, very narrow and uh. Um,

639
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: I was kind of nervous. Uh, I couldn't tell Matt

640
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,080
Speaker 1: to go beacon that car, and it was it was

641
00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,359
Speaker 1: a hairy experience, like I couldn't tell him to do it,

642
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 1: but he had the beacon, and I was trying to

643
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,919
Speaker 1: think of ways to get the beacon back from him

644
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: so that I could do it. But there was no

645
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: graceful way to do that. I mean, if I asked

646
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,000
Speaker 1: her the beacon, he knows why. But I didn't think

647
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: he was going to do it. And he did it.

648
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 1: He walked down at well, this guy, you gotta figure

649
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,920
Speaker 1: he's a professional boxer and an m M A fighter

650
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 1: and that's all well and good, but these guys are shooters,

651
00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: so I was still really worried if they should suddenly

652
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: come out and catch them, you know what if they're

653
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: carrying a piece. Well Matt did it, and he got

654
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,240
Speaker 1: up under that car to the rear and he slapped

655
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 1: that beacon clumped, and it didn't stick. It's magnetic, so

656
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 1: he hit it four or five more times, you know,

657
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: clump clump, clump, clump, clump, and then he even worked

658
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: his way around to the side of the car and

659
00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: again you know, it reached its far under clump clump, clump, clump.

660
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: He came walking back out immediately. I'm like what he goes,

661
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: you won't believe this ship. It wouldn't stick to anything.

662
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:34,840
Speaker 1: And um, I said, I've never runned that before. That's incredible.

663
00:37:35,040 --> 00:37:37,160
Speaker 1: And we did our We did our homework that night,

664
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,840
Speaker 1: and we came come to find out that the vice

665
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: guys ran to the same problem. They tried to magnetically

666
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,959
Speaker 1: tag it and they, um, they couldn't get it a stick.

667
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: They went to a garage and found the same car.

668
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: It was already up on Jack's and they looked at it.

669
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,240
Speaker 1: Basically that car, the entire underside of it is covered

670
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 1: in aluminium and plastic splash guards and skits. Uh. Yeah,

671
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: And Matt found from the internet research and some experts

672
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 1: that he knows that there's about a there's like a

673
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,319
Speaker 1: about an eight by eight inch metal plate that's like

674
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:15,359
Speaker 1: dead dead center on the long access of the car,

675
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:18,799
Speaker 1: right about in the middle. So he's practicing reaching, you know,

676
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,919
Speaker 1: because he's gonna go back and do it again. And um,

677
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: we did go back the next night, and uh, there

678
00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 1: was a whole bunch of cars there, Cadillacs, more BMW's,

679
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:33,280
Speaker 1: they were just jammed in there. And I said, wow,

680
00:38:33,520 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: something's up. And this was like two days before the hit,

681
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:40,359
Speaker 1: and I told the LEO, I said, hey, if if

682
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 1: if I were to throw some advice your way, I

683
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:45,400
Speaker 1: would say move your hit twenty four hours up, because

684
00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:49,280
Speaker 1: you know there's something's going on. There's there's a reason

685
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,439
Speaker 1: for that meeting, and maybe he got wind that something

686
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 1: was gonna happen and they're gonna bug out. But so

687
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: we couldn't. We knew we were going to do it

688
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,200
Speaker 1: that night. We just we We got up at three

689
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,800
Speaker 1: in the morning, came back out and there was a

690
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,479
Speaker 1: gate thrown completely across the driveway. It was a tall gate,

691
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: then it was a low gate, so you weren't going

692
00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: to go under it. You could get over it, but

693
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 1: you were going to make a lot of racket. So

694
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 1: we again we didn't get the beacon on it. Um.

695
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 1: So in the day of the hit, you know, we

696
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,400
Speaker 1: asked to say, we want to be a place. We

697
00:39:26,440 --> 00:39:27,839
Speaker 1: want to be in a place where we can see

698
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: some action but not interfere and if you don't tell

699
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: us a place, then we're gonna find our own place.

700
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 1: And um so they gave us a spot where they

701
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,680
Speaker 1: were gonna, uh, they were going to physically take out

702
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: the drug the car if it left the apartment and

703
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,080
Speaker 1: it was an intersection. So we sat up on that

704
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 1: intersection for about four hours straight and I saw a

705
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: police helicopter hover come to a hover over the residence

706
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: about a mile down the road, and I said, Matt,

707
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,760
Speaker 1: you know the ships on let's and we just raced

708
00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: for We raced for the residents and there was already

709
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: a degree cordon around that block and there was about

710
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 1: thirty five cops. The SWAT were spread out all over

711
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: the street. Took a look in that. We tried to

712
00:40:15,640 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 1: go down the back alley. There was a big alarmored

713
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: car park there where it had run down that alley.

714
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: Just crashed the back gate open, wreck his fence and

715
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:26,880
Speaker 1: then just froze down you know, the black side or

716
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,600
Speaker 1: the backside of the guy's place. I was, you know,

717
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: I was impressed with that. I said, that's what you

718
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: do it you freeze down three sixty degrees and make

719
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: sure no squarters get out and run away. And that

720
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:46,080
Speaker 1: that case. Basically, I mean, we were working on all

721
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:51,439
Speaker 1: kinds of cases. We still are. Um the next big

722
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: one I think is probably gonna happen the next couple

723
00:40:54,000 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: of weeks. I've been watching I found this network like

724
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 1: last April and had been watching these these people ever since.

725
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: But the cops just, uh, they got to lead. They

726
00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:09,840
Speaker 1: did some interviews, they put together, you know, a quick

727
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: page of notes and slapped it on us and said, hey,

728
00:41:12,320 --> 00:41:14,799
Speaker 1: this is gonna be big. Can you guys help us out?

729
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 1: And we just took it and did our usual products,

730
00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 1: made our network association diagrams, did all sorts of oos

731
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: and Diggs, got a ton of information personal information from

732
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: our research, uh, and turned over some really good products

733
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: to them, and uh, right away they asked us if

734
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:38,840
Speaker 1: we could help out with you know, working on the

735
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:41,279
Speaker 1: street with them, and we said, well, that's yeah, that's

736
00:41:41,320 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 1: why we're here. So I remember you talking a little

737
00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,040
Speaker 1: about some frustration in the past that not, you know,

738
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,319
Speaker 1: not as many arrests were being made as you would

739
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 1: have liked. I was wondering if maybe it sounds like,

740
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 1: is this the result of months and you know, years

741
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: of surveillance, um, kind of finally coming to a head. Uh,

742
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:04,399
Speaker 1: and maybe some of those products are starting to pay

743
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,879
Speaker 1: off now over a longer time period. Yeah, Jack, that's

744
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: you're you're you're all over it. Um, you know, coming

745
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: into the this this task force, I recognized right away

746
00:42:19,440 --> 00:42:21,800
Speaker 1: that the most difficult piece about it was going to

747
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: be the law enforcement integration piece. Another word. You know,

748
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: we we I boast that we can you can do

749
00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: all this busy work. We can do a lot of

750
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:36,399
Speaker 1: stuff that cops can't do by law, a whole lot

751
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,200
Speaker 1: of things that they can't do, they're just not allowed

752
00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: to do. We can do them. We can hand them

753
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:45,200
Speaker 1: a product that is actionable and if they you know,

754
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 1: they will agree that, yeah, this is uh, we can

755
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,359
Speaker 1: do a warrant on this one. So what we're handing

756
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 1: him a packed parachute and all I have to do

757
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: is jump. That's the way I describe it. And and

758
00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: it was really long and painful process to try to

759
00:43:00,640 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: get the to integrate with the LEO because the one

760
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: thing we don't have is arrest authority and they do.

761
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,279
Speaker 1: So I knew it was gonna take a long time.

762
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,839
Speaker 1: Nick really, you know, he really understood how long it

763
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,160
Speaker 1: was going to take to get the law enforcement on

764
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:19,719
Speaker 1: our side and to get their trust. And what we're

765
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: seeing now is, yeah, we're seeing their trust. That relationship

766
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: filled a little bit. Yeah. And when we first started out,

767
00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,840
Speaker 1: they had a vice squad of just two guys, undercover guys,

768
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 1: former Marines, and they disbanded that vice within weeks they

769
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,960
Speaker 1: were gone. So now we're operating, you know, with with nobody,

770
00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: no special agents, not from the Metro Police Department. Well,

771
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,319
Speaker 1: over time, they saw that, they saw the they were

772
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,359
Speaker 1: recognizing that there's some there's some good work being done

773
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 1: here and that they need the advice back. So they

774
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: reassembled it and plused it up even and those guys

775
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: are real go getters. You know, when we hand him

776
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: product that same day, you know, they're already they're already

777
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:12,319
Speaker 1: making some kind of getting some kind of results out

778
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:16,200
Speaker 1: of it. It's just real hard hitters, motivated. And we've

779
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 1: got two special agents from the Attorney General's Office that

780
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:25,399
Speaker 1: are smoking good, another two agents from Homeland Security. That's

781
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 1: one of our best guys. In my opinion, this this

782
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: this guy really um, he's he really goes after some cases.

783
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: And I'm counting on him to go after this next

784
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:39,600
Speaker 1: big case, this next network that I'm I'm looking at.

785
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: We're pulling out the number one and number two networks

786
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 1: from the city. That's what we're doing. If we get

787
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: both of these that's one and two, then then they'll

788
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:49,239
Speaker 1: be avoid and that will get filled up and then

789
00:44:49,239 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 1: we'll get them too. Then beyond that, we're just like

790
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: chasing one's and twosies. You know one guy that's pimping

791
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:58,960
Speaker 1: one girl, but that's okay, Well we'll go after them too.

792
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: And add a little bit of context. UM, could you

793
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 1: tell us about the deliver Fund and exactly how it

794
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: works in this organization that you work for. I'll I'll

795
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 1: do my best, UM, short of just spouting out the

796
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:19,080
Speaker 1: mission statement that uh, if you understand what o CENT is,

797
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: and I know you guys do, but for the audience,

798
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 1: it means open source intelligence. And that means it's there's

799
00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: all kinds of information out there that you can get

800
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: that legally on people, places and things. UM, I can

801
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:39,279
Speaker 1: get a whole lot of information on one individual using

802
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: all of the open source intelligence research techniques and tools

803
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:48,920
Speaker 1: that I have at my disposal. UM, We've got we

804
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 1: we have we're partnered with IBM, and we use one

805
00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:58,560
Speaker 1: of the nation's most powerful networking projects or projects for

806
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: building a network. It's called Analysts Notebook or I too,

807
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:07,399
Speaker 1: and we have um other UM tools that are these

808
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: aren't available to the consumer there you know, they're just

809
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: not you just can't go out there and download them

810
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:13,959
Speaker 1: and use them or even buy them for that matter.

811
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:17,360
Speaker 1: Some of these which is developed just for federal agents

812
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:22,520
Speaker 1: for for example, others for only law enforcement, like traffic

813
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:25,719
Speaker 1: jam is for law enforcement only. But we have accounts,

814
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:31,880
Speaker 1: deliver funds responsible for steering that project UM in a

815
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: big way to the way it operates today. I've put

816
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: in my own recommendations and sometimes same day I see

817
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,919
Speaker 1: changes in the in the program, you know, just based

818
00:46:41,960 --> 00:46:45,920
Speaker 1: on my input. So we go out there and using

819
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:50,240
Speaker 1: this legal means to collect open source intelligence we put together,

820
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: we do a lot of the busy work, uh and

821
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:55,239
Speaker 1: a lot of the work that the law enforcement guys

822
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 1: don't have time or resources to do, and we get

823
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,360
Speaker 1: that done for them and pass it off to them

824
00:47:02,400 --> 00:47:06,640
Speaker 1: and they make the arrest and it includes I mean

825
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:12,280
Speaker 1: we will we For example, Nick Nick McKinley gave every

826
00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 1: one of our LEO contacts from all of our different

827
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: office he gave them a MacBook Pro brand new because

828
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: they didn't have laptops in their office. Gave you know,

829
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:27,960
Speaker 1: laptop computers, state of the art laptop computers loaded with

830
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: the programs and the tools that we use for open

831
00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: source gathering. So now since they're not funded for it,

832
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: and well now they have it, they're able to use it.

833
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:41,760
Speaker 1: Um there there are sustaining operations going on right now

834
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: in town at a certain motel that deliver Fund paid

835
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:49,439
Speaker 1: for the rooms. You know, we said, have any rooms

836
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:52,680
Speaker 1: need we need? We need five, So I got a

837
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:56,240
Speaker 1: trusted agent. I'll send her out and say, get five rooms.

838
00:47:56,480 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 1: You know, use your credit card. That way, it's not

839
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,319
Speaker 1: attributable to any of us or our names or our

840
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:05,040
Speaker 1: credit cards. And I'll wire you know, money into your

841
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 1: bank account to cover you, plus some extra for doing

842
00:48:07,880 --> 00:48:11,480
Speaker 1: this workforce. So we'll get the rooms. She'll give me

843
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 1: the receipts, I'll claim those, and if the LEO needs,

844
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: if they need phones, like they actually did need the

845
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 1: two burner phones, we've got them phones and they're using

846
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:26,600
Speaker 1: them right now. And we got them a internet backup

847
00:48:26,640 --> 00:48:31,360
Speaker 1: source because they're they're having sketchy coverage at this particular location.

848
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:36,640
Speaker 1: And and in to include I'm not kidding, just cash.

849
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: Here's two hundred dollars of incidental cash. Because those guys

850
00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: will go out, they'll need stuff, they'll pay for it

851
00:48:43,239 --> 00:48:45,839
Speaker 1: out of their own pocket, you know, or they'll they'll

852
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:47,800
Speaker 1: try to they'll try to get it from the department,

853
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,360
Speaker 1: and well, it takes like three weeks to get fifty

854
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:54,359
Speaker 1: dollars from the department and paperwork. So here, don't spend

855
00:48:54,400 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: your money, here's cash. It's shocking sometimes how little resources. Uh.

856
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:04,320
Speaker 1: You know, police departments have allocated for human trafficking, counter

857
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: human trafficking investigations, and you know, it's not really the

858
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:11,880
Speaker 1: fault of the departments. Necessarily, a lot of the police officers,

859
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: you know, they're down in the in the mud, and

860
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,800
Speaker 1: they understand that there's an issue and that it needs

861
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: more resources. Um. But I remember talking to one police

862
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:27,359
Speaker 1: officer assigned to UM crackdown on distribution of child pornography,

863
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: and it was like him and one other guy in

864
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,560
Speaker 1: an office UM for a huge area, and just the

865
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 1: volume of crap that this guy was dealing with on

866
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 1: a day to day basis was incredible, way more than

867
00:49:40,360 --> 00:49:43,879
Speaker 1: two people could ever process. Um. You know, I mean,

868
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 1: he was telling me about one of the hits they got.

869
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,879
Speaker 1: One of the guys who was trafficking and child pornography

870
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,200
Speaker 1: turned out to be a police officer in the department.

871
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 1: And uh, and when they searched the guy's phone. His

872
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:04,239
Speaker 1: girlfriend's little daughter was on the That's really unfortunate. That's

873
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:08,279
Speaker 1: it's It doesn't surprise me, but it's unfortunate. Yeah, I'm

874
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 1: not a callous monster. Uh yeah, that sucks. That's a

875
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:18,000
Speaker 1: new one for me. UM, I completely I admit that

876
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: I UM was was unaware of just how overworked the

877
00:50:23,040 --> 00:50:27,920
Speaker 1: special agents are. UM. You know, in here in Albuquerque,

878
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 1: we don't deal with Metro they're too hard to deal

879
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:33,239
Speaker 1: with and they're not interested where we only deal with

880
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,880
Speaker 1: the special agents that are specifically UM interested in in

881
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:42,520
Speaker 1: counter human traffic. So and I'm I'm amazed at how

882
00:50:42,560 --> 00:50:45,759
Speaker 1: overworked they are and how under resource they are. And

883
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: I can say that because I can compare them to

884
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:53,040
Speaker 1: the same organization in Houston, Texas. Those guys have got

885
00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: a small army and are very well resourced to go

886
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:59,640
Speaker 1: after human traffic. The thing they didn't know is they

887
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:01,880
Speaker 1: didn't have I didn't have a really good understanding of

888
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:04,879
Speaker 1: how to go about it. And so they we brought

889
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,680
Speaker 1: him over in March and we gave him a ten

890
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 1: day class, you know, ten day, NonStop, no weekend off,

891
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,320
Speaker 1: just ten days, eight hours a day. In the mornings,

892
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: we did all classroom work, showed them how to we know,

893
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: gave him computers first of all, gave him all the

894
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:25,560
Speaker 1: all the resources, the accounts, the tools, showed them how

895
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:28,640
Speaker 1: to use them for ten days and we had we

896
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:34,279
Speaker 1: actually our exercises were, you know, go to your hometown

897
00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: of the hometown's back page and based on these criterias,

898
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 1: do your searches find people that you suspect are belong

899
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 1: to human trafficking networks. And I taught him some techniques

900
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:52,200
Speaker 1: that I developed for finding your your victim, the one

901
00:51:52,239 --> 00:51:59,560
Speaker 1: that's being trafficked, finding her in town and hopefully getting

902
00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:02,080
Speaker 1: a good a facial idea, and I d photo of

903
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: her through that. Yeah, the girl that's on this page

904
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,400
Speaker 1: is the girl that responds when you call this phone number.

905
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:13,080
Speaker 1: But here she is responding to a residence that's completely phony.

906
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,000
Speaker 1: And I call that an out called jilt. And there's

907
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: an in called jilt as well. And we talked, we

908
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: taught the police that and uh, the word is back

909
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 1: in Houston is that you're not cool unless you're doing

910
00:52:26,560 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: an out called jilts or or saying the word out

911
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: called jill. You know, they're and they're bringing in people

912
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 1: so fast that the prosecuting attorneys are like, you know,

913
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,560
Speaker 1: giving them the time out sign like hang on, hang on,

914
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: hang on, you know basically, I mean basically they're starting

915
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: cold in the morning. They're showing up a close of

916
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 1: business with a guy, what a trafficker? What if any

917
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: changes have taken place in this arena, um since the

918
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 1: some of the dust stops with back Page. Uh. You

919
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 1: know that's it's interesting because you know, back Page is

920
00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: a huge, huge front for human trafficking. Some of the

921
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: law enforcement officers I talked to that they have no

922
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:08,080
Speaker 1: qualms about saying, no, back Page is bad. You know,

923
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:10,919
Speaker 1: they're doing bad things there. Um. But at the other hand,

924
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 1: it also gave them a vehicle, uh, to track human traffickers,

925
00:53:15,400 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: to identify victims the way you were saying, so it

926
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 1: was kind of a double ledged sword. And I was wondering,

927
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:24,280
Speaker 1: since they believe they've been cracking down on back Page, uh,

928
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 1: and even I think the CEO may have been indicted, um,

929
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,040
Speaker 1: if you could speak to if there had been any changes,

930
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: if any um. When it comes to that, Yeah, I

931
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:39,319
Speaker 1: completely know what you mean by that double edged sword

932
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:42,560
Speaker 1: because I experienced to myself, because I I didn't have

933
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,799
Speaker 1: it as well thought out, as I thought out well

934
00:53:46,840 --> 00:53:50,400
Speaker 1: ahead like Nick did. But I mean, we were largely

935
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,960
Speaker 1: responsible for getting back pages escort channel closed. So when

936
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:59,120
Speaker 1: they slammed the escort channel closed, I immediately went, holy crapt,

937
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 1: that's great it how do I find him now? And

938
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: that's where all the leo we're doing well. They're like, man,

939
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,600
Speaker 1: you just you just just closed off our source for

940
00:54:07,719 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 1: finding these guys. And given one day. Two days later

941
00:54:11,960 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: we realized that those guys everyone that was posting on

942
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:18,440
Speaker 1: escort channels, they just regrouped and now they're posting on

943
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 1: women seeking men and others and other websites. There are

944
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 1: a couple of webs sites, there are a couple of

945
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: servers out there, Jack that that the owners of back

946
00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 1: Page had. They they set them up knowing that their

947
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: escorts channel was going to get shut down and then

948
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: probably some more of their adult channels would get shut down.

949
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,920
Speaker 1: Um one of them is in one of them is

950
00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: in the Netherlands, and the other is wherever it is.

951
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: Um Uh. The names the name kind of escapes me

952
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: at the moment. It's something like posted fast, something to

953
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: that effect. And it's just if you post everything you

954
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:04,279
Speaker 1: posted that most fast server shows up on back Page. Interesting,

955
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: so yeah, and so it's business as usual and on

956
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: the ways, oh, it is completely business as usual. And

957
00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:16,800
Speaker 1: other the other adults websites, well, the traffic Champs, for example,

958
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: I mentioned that it scrapes back Page at one time exclusively.

959
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,919
Speaker 1: Well now they're um, the creator of that program thought

960
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: it out well ahead as well, and they're scraping as

961
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,760
Speaker 1: Media's nineteen of the top social media for adult posting.

962
00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 1: They're scraping nineteen different sites. So we're still we're still

963
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:39,920
Speaker 1: picking up our I know we're I call it my

964
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:41,799
Speaker 1: girls because are the ones that I've been looking at

965
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: since April that are involved in this ring. I know

966
00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:48,200
Speaker 1: where they're at all the time. Um, I know which

967
00:55:48,239 --> 00:55:51,560
Speaker 1: hotels they're at, you know. Uh, but there, I see

968
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,760
Speaker 1: how they pop up on different websites from time to time,

969
00:55:55,440 --> 00:55:58,640
Speaker 1: and we can figure out how to find very quickly

970
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:04,480
Speaker 1: if they change. Um. But or it's interesting because when

971
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,120
Speaker 1: when Nick was first discovered that that mirror site or

972
00:56:09,160 --> 00:56:12,959
Speaker 1: that but I'm not sure what I want to call it. Yeah,

973
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: he contacted me late one night said George, go to

974
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,840
Speaker 1: this website and put internet and I was like, okay,

975
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,360
Speaker 1: So I put in you know, I paid five dollars

976
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:26,719
Speaker 1: or whatever put in an ad and sure enough it

977
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:31,080
Speaker 1: popped up on Backpage. And see he's he's got a

978
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,680
Speaker 1: guy that works overseas that he um that all he

979
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: does is Backpage that's all he does. And this guy

980
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,359
Speaker 1: he won't tell me what his name is. I don't

981
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,000
Speaker 1: care what his name is. But he's the one that

982
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: found these uh, these these passed through servers that Backpage

983
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: has been setting up. Um, there's I mean there, they're

984
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: all being subpoenaed the Backpage. I saw a notice yesterday

985
00:56:58,560 --> 00:57:02,040
Speaker 1: that Backpage International got slam shut. I don't know if

986
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: you saw that. No, I didn't. They posted it on

987
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,919
Speaker 1: a on the software. But yeah, that that actually came

988
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:14,200
Speaker 1: from the creator of traffic Jam that tool, Emily Kennedy.

989
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 1: She send us all the note saying the back Page

990
00:57:16,920 --> 00:57:22,920
Speaker 1: International slam shut. So there you know days coming. Um,

991
00:57:22,960 --> 00:57:25,560
Speaker 1: I just look forward to the day they get the

992
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,400
Speaker 1: CEO physically get him and to control him and get

993
00:57:29,440 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 1: him in court because as you know, he's uh, I mean,

994
00:57:33,720 --> 00:57:36,520
Speaker 1: he's he's been asked to testify and he just never

995
00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 1: shows up. I think they actually, I'm not aware of

996
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 1: the current status of the case. But I remember reading

997
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:46,560
Speaker 1: the charges when they dropped or not when the charges

998
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,040
Speaker 1: were dropped, but when they when they came out, and

999
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 1: I think they actually they were charging the CEO for

1000
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: pimping and several other employees of the company. It was

1001
00:57:56,120 --> 00:57:59,960
Speaker 1: like it was like that they knowingly we're taking credit

1002
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:02,960
Speaker 1: card transactions knowing that the girls were being pimped out.

1003
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:06,480
Speaker 1: I believe that's no doubt. Yeah, I believe that's the

1004
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:10,520
Speaker 1: crux of the case that was brought against them. Another

1005
00:58:10,560 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: thing on this note, George, that I was wondering if

1006
00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: you could comment on, because I think there may be

1007
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: a lot of misconceptions in people's minds. Um, but we'll

1008
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,320
Speaker 1: get your take on it. Is what is the role

1009
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:26,440
Speaker 1: of the dark web, if any in human trafficking the

1010
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:31,760
Speaker 1: dark web is? Um? You know, dark web was a

1011
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,800
Speaker 1: mystery to me for the longest time. And then uh,

1012
00:58:35,720 --> 00:58:39,000
Speaker 1: I I set out to I just dedicated today. I said,

1013
00:58:39,000 --> 00:58:41,880
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna get on the dark Web. I'm

1014
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna go see three I'm gonna see three

1015
00:58:44,320 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: different things. I'm gonna look for three different things. I'm

1016
00:58:47,760 --> 00:58:49,280
Speaker 1: going to see them. Then I'm going to leave the

1017
00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:51,880
Speaker 1: dark Web, and I'm never going to go back to it,

1018
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,160
Speaker 1: you know, I just I'm gonna satisfy myself that I

1019
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: know that it exists. And so, and of course there's

1020
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:01,800
Speaker 1: the deep Web and there's the dark Web. But the

1021
00:59:01,880 --> 00:59:04,160
Speaker 1: dark Web is what I'm talking about. It's it's everything

1022
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 1: on the Internet, which is most everything on the Internet

1023
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: that cannot be indexed by a search engine. Therefore it

1024
00:59:11,200 --> 00:59:13,400
Speaker 1: can't be found unless you know right where it looked.

1025
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,880
Speaker 1: So and that's how that's how child porn and this

1026
00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:21,560
Speaker 1: sort of thing is being managed on the dark web.

1027
00:59:21,720 --> 00:59:24,360
Speaker 1: Is that you you you're not going to stumble into it.

1028
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: You're you're gonna have to know exactly where to go.

1029
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,880
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to be privy h and deliberately get

1030
00:59:30,920 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 1: the right information from somebody to go there and get

1031
00:59:33,320 --> 00:59:36,280
Speaker 1: what you want. So I got into the dark Web

1032
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:40,240
Speaker 1: basically used a tour and I went in there and

1033
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:42,640
Speaker 1: I saw what I was looking for, and I said, wow,

1034
00:59:42,720 --> 00:59:45,720
Speaker 1: it's it's true. And then I backed out and I

1035
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: haven't been back since. The U Nick tells me, and

1036
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:53,640
Speaker 1: that's Nick McKinley. He says, you know the dark Web,

1037
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:58,800
Speaker 1: you you if you if that is something illegal like

1038
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,840
Speaker 1: child porn. Even I years on your screen, they can

1039
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: come get you. And I thought, well, that sounds that

1040
01:00:04,160 --> 01:00:08,080
Speaker 1: sounds like that's a little bit far fetched and sensational,

1041
01:00:08,320 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 1: like just because something appeared on my screen. But he

1042
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,400
Speaker 1: maintained that, Uh, but I can't pooh pooh that, and

1043
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: that that does worry me. So I don't want to

1044
01:00:17,280 --> 01:00:21,760
Speaker 1: be back in there unless it's for uh, in the

1045
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: course of my duties, like it's our official work, like world,

1046
01:00:24,520 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to go to the dark web now

1047
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,720
Speaker 1: because so much has moved to the dark web, is

1048
01:00:29,760 --> 01:00:31,880
Speaker 1: now we have to meet him on their terms on

1049
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,040
Speaker 1: the dark web. All right, Well, let's go. Let's find

1050
01:00:34,120 --> 01:00:38,680
Speaker 1: him then, Matt. Yeah. The reason why I bring this

1051
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: up is something that I've been told in the past

1052
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:45,920
Speaker 1: is that, as you mentioned, child pornography is huge on

1053
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:50,480
Speaker 1: the dark Web, but human trafficking not so much. The

1054
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: reason being that it's um the human traffickers are engaged

1055
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,360
Speaker 1: in a in a commercial enterprise at the end of

1056
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,200
Speaker 1: the day, and so they need to attract as any

1057
01:01:00,240 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: customers as possible, and that customer base is on you know,

1058
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:07,400
Speaker 1: the normal web, it's on the on the social media sites.

1059
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,920
Speaker 1: It's on the back pages of the world, not on

1060
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:14,480
Speaker 1: the dark web, right, that's that's right, Jack, Yeah, you're

1061
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: tracking track. Um. Yeah, they they gotta they gotta get

1062
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: to their customer base. Uh. I mean the the this

1063
01:01:22,880 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: this next network that I've been watching for so long.

1064
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: Um uh you know, and it's a cat and mouse game.

1065
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:34,600
Speaker 1: They they they get they get a level of sophistication

1066
01:01:34,720 --> 01:01:38,760
Speaker 1: just from everyday business, especially when someone's after him. For

1067
01:01:38,800 --> 01:01:40,880
Speaker 1: the most part, no one's after him, nobody cares, you know.

1068
01:01:40,960 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 1: But when we're after him for so long, um, and

1069
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: they start realizing it, they start changing up the way

1070
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: they do business a little bit. They go so far

1071
01:01:51,200 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 1: as to do a really awkward burn runs, in other words,

1072
01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:59,160
Speaker 1: driving erratically to see if somebody's following them. They're not

1073
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:02,680
Speaker 1: good at it. That they can do it and it's effective,

1074
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,400
Speaker 1: but all they're doing is they're tipping their hand that

1075
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:09,880
Speaker 1: they think someone's following them, in my opinion, And and

1076
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 1: they of course, you know, a moving target is hard

1077
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,000
Speaker 1: to hit. When they're good, they move a lot like

1078
01:02:16,040 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: they I've noticed they wouldn't stay in the same motel

1079
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 1: for more than about seven days. Then they pick up

1080
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: and their easiest hell to find, you know, I mean,

1081
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: as soon as they start posting again, you know, I'm

1082
01:02:27,760 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 1: on my burn my burn line, send him a date

1083
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,320
Speaker 1: request and get it all the way down to Okay,

1084
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,520
Speaker 1: what's the room number? Then I get the room number.

1085
01:02:36,600 --> 01:02:39,120
Speaker 1: Now I cut them away. I know what room they're in,

1086
01:02:39,200 --> 01:02:42,320
Speaker 1: I know what motel they're in. Um, And I present

1087
01:02:42,400 --> 01:02:46,400
Speaker 1: this to the LEO, you know, constantly in the hope

1088
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: that they're going to move on this guy. And I

1089
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:53,200
Speaker 1: think they will finally because um, you know, when we

1090
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,400
Speaker 1: got a big way, they get a network, a kingpin

1091
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,720
Speaker 1: is they The best way to get them is they

1092
01:02:58,720 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 1: get one of the girls to flip. In other words,

1093
01:03:01,240 --> 01:03:03,840
Speaker 1: she just decides that she's going to tell on. That's

1094
01:03:03,840 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: hard to do. It's very it's really hard to do,

1095
01:03:07,560 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 1: really hard to do. Yeah, But at any rate, we

1096
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:17,960
Speaker 1: got um, one of the first women that we liberated.

1097
01:03:18,640 --> 01:03:21,720
Speaker 1: We got her pimp. We you know, rescued her, got

1098
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:25,360
Speaker 1: her pimp. He had crossed the state line. The cops

1099
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:28,280
Speaker 1: continue to follow him. They picked him up. He got

1100
01:03:28,320 --> 01:03:31,800
Speaker 1: fifteen years. His name is Shane Roach. So he's and

1101
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,480
Speaker 1: his sentence came down just this past October. So he's

1102
01:03:35,520 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: fifteen years in, she's still in town. We tried, we

1103
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 1: try to work with her um as best we can,

1104
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: hoping that she can help us. But she's too far.

1105
01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 1: Heroine's got hooks in her too far. Is she's not

1106
01:03:48,200 --> 01:03:56,040
Speaker 1: reliable and almost worthless. So but um he likes. It's

1107
01:03:56,080 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: tough because a lot of the victims, they don't see

1108
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:03,280
Speaker 1: themselves as victim at the time. No, no, yeah, so

1109
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,000
Speaker 1: we but the point of her is that she was

1110
01:04:06,040 --> 01:04:10,360
Speaker 1: the only one that flipped, and they prosecuted and they

1111
01:04:10,400 --> 01:04:13,080
Speaker 1: convicted the guy. Well we're not. When we got one

1112
01:04:13,080 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 1: of the women for this next network to flip, we right,

1113
01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: We ran her up to Montana, dried her out, cleaned her,

1114
01:04:18,840 --> 01:04:21,240
Speaker 1: brought her back. She's in all these programs. So she's

1115
01:04:21,240 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 1: a witness. And the Feds said, you know, you know,

1116
01:04:24,560 --> 01:04:28,680
Speaker 1: would be better than one witness to witnesses. And I'm like, wow, man,

1117
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:31,240
Speaker 1: that hoop is getting smaller and smaller that I'm trying

1118
01:04:31,280 --> 01:04:35,800
Speaker 1: to jump through here. So and we're and we've tried

1119
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:39,320
Speaker 1: to get these these last two women to flip. One

1120
01:04:39,360 --> 01:04:42,720
Speaker 1: of them's got mild. She she's got she has a

1121
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: mental condition. She doesn't have she doesn't have the correct

1122
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,880
Speaker 1: sense of reality. So she she's not a possibility to

1123
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: flip that. This other one, I think she will flip.

1124
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:57,880
Speaker 1: And she sounds pretty tough and talks a tough, tough piece.

1125
01:04:57,960 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: But um, I think got convinced our HSI guys to

1126
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,480
Speaker 1: talk to the d A and say, hey, you know what,

1127
01:05:04,640 --> 01:05:08,240
Speaker 1: there's been a precedence where we tried and convicted um

1128
01:05:08,280 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 1: a trafficker with just one witness. Why can't we do

1129
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:13,720
Speaker 1: that in this case? And I think we're winning. I

1130
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,880
Speaker 1: think they're gonna take it so that that means within

1131
01:05:16,920 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: the next couple of weeks we could have bagged the

1132
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:24,000
Speaker 1: second one. So his the woman that we're trying to flip. Now,

1133
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:28,480
Speaker 1: she's she's a big time heroin and UM, the plan

1134
01:05:28,920 --> 01:05:31,080
Speaker 1: these guys, they're just gonna they're gonna grab all the

1135
01:05:31,080 --> 01:05:34,000
Speaker 1: women and grab the pimp and they're gonna put her

1136
01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: on ice for about six hours the scal After about

1137
01:05:37,640 --> 01:05:40,880
Speaker 1: six hours, she's gonna, you know, get dope sick, and

1138
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: at that point she will sell her soul. It's you know,

1139
01:05:45,000 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 1: it's not a matter of like will you flip, it's like,

1140
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:49,680
Speaker 1: you know, when will you flip? Because she's gonna flip

1141
01:05:50,240 --> 01:05:53,919
Speaker 1: because of heroin, and um, I mean they're just gonna

1142
01:05:54,000 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 1: lay it, lay the letter of the law down, say hey,

1143
01:05:56,760 --> 01:06:00,080
Speaker 1: you're either you're either cooperating or you're in prison with

1144
01:06:00,160 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: no heroine. So, um, it's a shitty job, man. But

1145
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: that's how we get things done and amazing stuff. And

1146
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a whole new world, I think

1147
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,240
Speaker 1: for a lot of our listeners, and I mean, frankly

1148
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:17,800
Speaker 1: for a lot of Americans. Um, And I'm grateful that

1149
01:06:17,920 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: law enforcement and that organization's like Deliver Funder of put

1150
01:06:22,000 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 1: the focus and put the spotlight on this subject. For way,

1151
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 1: way too long, human trafficking was something that was allowed

1152
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,160
Speaker 1: to fester. It was allowed to exist, and we didn't

1153
01:06:31,240 --> 01:06:34,360
Speaker 1: devote enough time or resources to it. And it seems

1154
01:06:34,360 --> 01:06:36,840
Speaker 1: like that's beginning to change. People are becoming more aware

1155
01:06:36,840 --> 01:06:42,240
Speaker 1: of the issue. I really think they are. And I

1156
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,960
Speaker 1: should point out probably one of the most important things

1157
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: about Deliver Fund. You know, Nick McKinley was you know,

1158
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 1: he was an Air Force pair of rescue swimmer. He

1159
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: was then he was as CIA did about thirty combat

1160
01:06:55,520 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: tours in Pakistan and surrounding area. But he thought this

1161
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,920
Speaker 1: thing out for seven years and he he put together

1162
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:07,920
Speaker 1: the legal basis and the foundation of it years before

1163
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:12,240
Speaker 1: he put any operators and put positions. He's got multiple lawyers,

1164
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 1: he's got I mean, he's got he's got eyes, got

1165
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: a tease crossed. He did. He did a really good job.

1166
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 1: This organization is extant in that nobody, no other organization

1167
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,200
Speaker 1: in the States is operating the way to deliver funds

1168
01:07:27,240 --> 01:07:32,960
Speaker 1: is operating. They're they're involved in it rescue and recovery

1169
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 1: and damage control and mitigation, but they're not actively targeting

1170
01:07:39,680 --> 01:07:44,160
Speaker 1: uh network pimps and network kingpins and collecting on them

1171
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: and uh getting the law enforcement to actually, you know,

1172
01:07:49,080 --> 01:07:52,000
Speaker 1: arrest him. I mean. And the way Nick describes it

1173
01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:55,000
Speaker 1: very well, it's like, you know, you keep pulling the

1174
01:07:55,000 --> 01:07:57,640
Speaker 1: girls out. Oh, save the girls, Save the girls. You

1175
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: pull the girls out. Guess what there's gonna be now

1176
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,480
Speaker 1: it's it's shelf space. And a new girl is going

1177
01:08:02,520 --> 01:08:05,480
Speaker 1: to pick up that shelf space. And he he described

1178
01:08:05,520 --> 01:08:10,560
Speaker 1: it in his own words as uh attempting to shoplift

1179
01:08:10,560 --> 01:08:14,720
Speaker 1: Walmart out of business. You're not going to do it. Yeah,

1180
01:08:14,800 --> 01:08:18,320
Speaker 1: it's funny. It's true though, But you know, God blessed

1181
01:08:18,320 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 1: the victims and you know. I mean I wrote about

1182
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:23,400
Speaker 1: the victims, them lost girls. That's one of my strongest

1183
01:08:23,439 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 1: pieces that I wrote, and uh, you know, so I

1184
01:08:26,400 --> 01:08:29,559
Speaker 1: do have a heart for him. But the mission says,

1185
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:31,640
Speaker 1: we got to go after the pimps. We got to

1186
01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:34,519
Speaker 1: go after the network guys. You know, we were not

1187
01:08:34,640 --> 01:08:37,960
Speaker 1: we're not involved in rescue and m We have done

1188
01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: it though, I mean all those drives we do to

1189
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:43,240
Speaker 1: other states with the girl in the car, that's that's

1190
01:08:43,280 --> 01:08:45,080
Speaker 1: not our business. But no one else is doing it,

1191
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,559
Speaker 1: so we have to do it. I think you you

1192
01:08:47,600 --> 01:08:50,320
Speaker 1: really put your thumb on it there, George, because I

1193
01:08:50,360 --> 01:08:52,960
Speaker 1: think for a long time and even to this day,

1194
01:08:53,479 --> 01:08:55,920
Speaker 1: when we talk about human trafficking, it becomes this sort

1195
01:08:55,960 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: of like empathizing, you know, emoting like the poor women,

1196
01:09:00,920 --> 01:09:03,000
Speaker 1: the poor girls. And as you say, I mean, yes,

1197
01:09:03,040 --> 01:09:05,439
Speaker 1: they're victims and what's happening to them is horrible and

1198
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:08,040
Speaker 1: we should have empathy for them. Um, But I don't

1199
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:10,680
Speaker 1: think that's really in of itself resolves the problem for

1200
01:09:10,720 --> 01:09:14,400
Speaker 1: just the reasons you outlined that we put the spotlight

1201
01:09:14,439 --> 01:09:16,920
Speaker 1: on the victims and it almost becomes like victim porn

1202
01:09:17,000 --> 01:09:20,240
Speaker 1: at a certain point, um, when instead we should be

1203
01:09:20,280 --> 01:09:23,640
Speaker 1: putting the spotlight on the victimizers and putting that uh

1204
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:26,920
Speaker 1: you know, putting some daylight on the criminals and saying, look,

1205
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:28,679
Speaker 1: these are the guys who are up to no good.

1206
01:09:28,720 --> 01:09:35,000
Speaker 1: These are the guys we need to bring in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, um,

1207
01:09:35,360 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: you know it's it's it's not the fun part, you know,

1208
01:09:37,840 --> 01:09:41,240
Speaker 1: the fun sexy part to feel good stuff is save

1209
01:09:41,360 --> 01:09:44,240
Speaker 1: the girls, you know, or fly fly to the Philippines

1210
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,760
Speaker 1: and save their kids, but we don't have our own kids,

1211
01:09:47,200 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: or go and make up a man. I hate to

1212
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:52,120
Speaker 1: say this, George, but I mean there's a lot of

1213
01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:54,880
Speaker 1: these like private intelligence firms, and I see these like

1214
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,360
Speaker 1: puff pieces they do are they have somebody else right

1215
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:01,000
Speaker 1: for them? And the media where it's like, you know

1216
01:10:01,160 --> 01:10:03,600
Speaker 1: what what you're describing, it's like a rescue mission and

1217
01:10:03,600 --> 01:10:06,280
Speaker 1: they're down in Costa Rica or Panama or something like that.

1218
01:10:06,320 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 1: And honestly, I think I think most of those stories

1219
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,800
Speaker 1: are fake. I think they're fabricated public relations stories. I

1220
01:10:12,800 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: think they're absolutely bullshit. If you, if you'll pardon me,

1221
01:10:16,439 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: you can say, well, we can let's fix Let's fix

1222
01:10:21,200 --> 01:10:23,599
Speaker 1: ourselves first, man, Let's let's take care of our own kids.

1223
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:26,760
Speaker 1: Then let's go take care of everybody else's kids. Um,

1224
01:10:28,400 --> 01:10:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I mean, if I don't know,

1225
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,680
Speaker 1: if I don't, I don't want to be like, you know,

1226
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:40,360
Speaker 1: laying stacks of brochures on countertops in motel motel lobbies.

1227
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 1: You know, here's a number to call if you're being Yeah, yeah, no,

1228
01:10:44,240 --> 01:10:46,240
Speaker 1: I mean. And I think that's another reason why Nick

1229
01:10:46,320 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 1: likes mature guys, because you know, like we're not out

1230
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,599
Speaker 1: there fallen in love with our victims. You know, I've

1231
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:56,040
Speaker 1: I've been in to see a couple of the of

1232
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:00,120
Speaker 1: the victims were whose pimps were trying to put away.

1233
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:03,120
Speaker 1: I've been in to see him saying, hey, you have

1234
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:05,400
Speaker 1: an opportunity here. You know, do you want out of

1235
01:11:05,400 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 1: this crap? Let's go right now. Not successfully, you know.

1236
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: In the case the one female that um that I've

1237
01:11:14,240 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: been watching for the longest time, she has she has autism.

1238
01:11:17,240 --> 01:11:21,240
Speaker 1: She's slightly autistic, difficult to talk to, and so her

1239
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: sense of reality is not it's not kosher. Uh. In fact,

1240
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:27,800
Speaker 1: the last time we the last time we went to

1241
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,519
Speaker 1: see her, we you know, barged did the date thing.

1242
01:11:30,560 --> 01:11:33,160
Speaker 1: Barged in the room. She tried to grab her phone

1243
01:11:33,640 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 1: one of the HSI grabbed it first. We took a look. Um,

1244
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,360
Speaker 1: we did a dump on the phone, and you can

1245
01:11:40,400 --> 01:11:43,599
Speaker 1: tell the usual John numbers and the usual this that,

1246
01:11:44,240 --> 01:11:47,160
Speaker 1: and one of the numbers was named Daddy, and I

1247
01:11:47,200 --> 01:11:50,959
Speaker 1: did a dig on that number and founded was registered

1248
01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: directly to her pimp. But I won't say his name

1249
01:11:53,920 --> 01:11:58,200
Speaker 1: because he's not we don't have him yet, So her

1250
01:11:58,200 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 1: sense of reality is a bit you. She's not one

1251
01:12:01,280 --> 01:12:03,960
Speaker 1: that we're going to ever get to flip um. But

1252
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: the other, the other girl, Yeah, well I I very

1253
01:12:07,640 --> 01:12:10,759
Speaker 1: confident will be able to get her to flip George.

1254
01:12:10,760 --> 01:12:12,640
Speaker 1: Have you Uh well, I'm sure at the end of

1255
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 1: the day after because of your job, you probably want

1256
01:12:15,200 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 1: to go home and watch Disney movies or something like that.

1257
01:12:18,040 --> 01:12:20,639
Speaker 1: But I was just curious that, uh, have you seen

1258
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:23,479
Speaker 1: on Netflix there's this series I've been watching called The

1259
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:29,840
Speaker 1: Keepers about a pedophile ring and a Catholic school. Okay

1260
01:12:29,880 --> 01:12:32,439
Speaker 1: to Keepers, Okay, yeah, in uh in Baltimore. I don't

1261
01:12:32,439 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 1: know if you've seen it or not. I've been watching it,

1262
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 1: watched a couple of episodes of it, and I mean,

1263
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,559
Speaker 1: I think we've all seen some like pretty horrifying things like,

1264
01:12:40,600 --> 01:12:43,200
Speaker 1: this is probably one of the worst I've ever even

1265
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:45,160
Speaker 1: though he's probably seen a lot worse than you have

1266
01:12:45,280 --> 01:12:49,000
Speaker 1: in this Uh yeah, you know, he certainly has. But yeah,

1267
01:12:49,000 --> 01:12:51,439
Speaker 1: that's seriously because I'm gonna watch it. I'm gonna pick

1268
01:12:51,520 --> 01:12:53,800
Speaker 1: up and start watching it this evening. Yeah, it's it's

1269
01:12:53,880 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 1: pretty horrendous. The pedophile priest was the principle of a

1270
01:12:57,360 --> 01:13:00,880
Speaker 1: girl's school and he was also a psychology Just so

1271
01:13:00,920 --> 01:13:03,400
Speaker 1: you can imagine the way he was fucking with these kids.

1272
01:13:03,439 --> 01:13:05,960
Speaker 1: I mean not not just literally, I mean figuratively, he

1273
01:13:06,040 --> 01:13:09,840
Speaker 1: was he was mind fucking Yeah. That actually sounds that

1274
01:13:10,120 --> 01:13:14,439
Speaker 1: very that that sounds very realistic to me in a

1275
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: lot of the situation situations across the United States. I

1276
01:13:18,000 --> 01:13:22,320
Speaker 1: was appalled to see the endless number of college professors

1277
01:13:22,320 --> 01:13:25,800
Speaker 1: that have been busted and dieted for the same thing. Dude,

1278
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:29,879
Speaker 1: it's interesting to all of these young people. It's interesting

1279
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:33,160
Speaker 1: you say that because I had a UM I interviewed

1280
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:37,160
Speaker 1: somebody a while back, and uh, and it was about

1281
01:13:37,200 --> 01:13:39,240
Speaker 1: a different subject, had nothing to do with what we're

1282
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:41,960
Speaker 1: talking about here today. But he kind of came off

1283
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:45,519
Speaker 1: the cuff and told me some personal things about himself,

1284
01:13:46,080 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: and he told me about how he was walking home

1285
01:13:47,960 --> 01:13:51,320
Speaker 1: from school when he was like seven years old, seven

1286
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,640
Speaker 1: eight years old. Uh, this would have been in like

1287
01:13:53,680 --> 01:13:57,719
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, I suppose. And uh, four four men

1288
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 1: pulled over and they offered to give him a ride home.

1289
01:14:01,640 --> 01:14:04,360
Speaker 1: So he got in the car and they drove him

1290
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:07,599
Speaker 1: out to out to some cottage or something and spent

1291
01:14:07,680 --> 01:14:11,080
Speaker 1: the entire afternoon having their way with this kid. And

1292
01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:12,880
Speaker 1: uh and it turned out all four of them were

1293
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:23,960
Speaker 1: college professors. Yeah, yeah, man, Yeah, so this was this

1294
01:14:24,040 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 1: was funny find out about each other. You know, maybe

1295
01:14:27,479 --> 01:14:30,360
Speaker 1: it's I don't know, maybe it's it's interesting how they

1296
01:14:30,400 --> 01:14:33,800
Speaker 1: figure out each other's like that, and then together it

1297
01:14:33,840 --> 01:14:37,200
Speaker 1: turns into it turns into a ring. And uh and

1298
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 1: they all have blackmail material on each other too, so

1299
01:14:40,080 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: it's very it's very uh incestuous rings. Uh, you know,

1300
01:14:46,479 --> 01:14:51,360
Speaker 1: it's like the mafia or something like that, but worse. Yeah.

1301
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: And you know, I get a lot of a lot

1302
01:14:55,040 --> 01:14:57,719
Speaker 1: of readers. They you know, they post in the post

1303
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:02,160
Speaker 1: right forum forum. They're like, tell us, please tell us,

1304
01:15:02,200 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: make us understand where these people are coming from, what

1305
01:15:05,320 --> 01:15:07,559
Speaker 1: makes them do this? I'm like, yeah, you know, you

1306
01:15:07,560 --> 01:15:10,920
Speaker 1: can you can beat yourself up about it, trying to

1307
01:15:10,920 --> 01:15:13,320
Speaker 1: figure it out and hoping that somebody will explain it

1308
01:15:13,320 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 1: to you one day. But in the end, man, you

1309
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:18,920
Speaker 1: just gotta you've gotta calm down and resign to the

1310
01:15:18,920 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: notion that that you're just glad you don't understand, because

1311
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: that means you're not like that, you know, and then

1312
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:28,080
Speaker 1: then you can get some peace. Finally, if you glad

1313
01:15:28,120 --> 01:15:31,000
Speaker 1: you don't understand them. I mean, the reality where these

1314
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,680
Speaker 1: people come from, as they come from our communities. Uh,

1315
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's a part of our culture. It's it's

1316
01:15:36,200 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 1: something that exists in our culture, and you know, we

1317
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 1: have to recognize that and then we can take some

1318
01:15:41,439 --> 01:15:45,280
Speaker 1: steps to dealing with it the way you have. Yeah,

1319
01:15:45,760 --> 01:15:50,440
Speaker 1: and Jack, the the guy that we just busted, Cornelius Galloway,

1320
01:15:50,960 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: the guy on top. I mean, when the cops grabbed

1321
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:57,200
Speaker 1: him and did their first interview, he said, you know,

1322
01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,960
Speaker 1: he said, point blank, he was, Hey, my dad was,

1323
01:16:00,360 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 1: my mom was a horror That's all I know. So

1324
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:08,160
Speaker 1: you got me. Yeah wild. So I was just gonna

1325
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:12,360
Speaker 1: say onto, you know, more of the thing that we

1326
01:16:12,479 --> 01:16:15,479
Speaker 1: usually talk about. This is definitely a darker subject than usual.

1327
01:16:15,600 --> 01:16:18,960
Speaker 1: Not that this is any less dark, um being that,

1328
01:16:19,040 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 1: as I mentioned your former Army Master Sergeant, first best

1329
01:16:22,080 --> 01:16:26,360
Speaker 1: Special Forces Operational UH Detachment for Delta Force, you do

1330
01:16:26,479 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: more than just human trafficking. So I actually just wanted

1331
01:16:30,120 --> 01:16:32,040
Speaker 1: to hear because I mean, it's in the news right now.

1332
01:16:32,080 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 1: We've talked about at the previous show. Just your thoughts

1333
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 1: and what what went down in Manchester and and how

1334
01:16:38,000 --> 01:16:39,960
Speaker 1: do we actually combat this type of thing. I know

1335
01:16:40,040 --> 01:16:44,599
Speaker 1: it's a very complicated answer to a pretty complex question,

1336
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:46,760
Speaker 1: but just figured out here your thoughts since I've heard

1337
01:16:47,080 --> 01:16:53,559
Speaker 1: Jack's and Chris is as well. Chris Parronto, well, um,

1338
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:55,400
Speaker 1: I hate that you asked me that, but I'm glad

1339
01:16:55,439 --> 01:16:58,360
Speaker 1: you didn't ask me something like George sum up the

1340
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:03,479
Speaker 1: problem in Syria that I like I have. I have

1341
01:17:03,560 --> 01:17:06,920
Speaker 1: people like Jack and and Alex and all these guys

1342
01:17:07,000 --> 01:17:12,920
Speaker 1: that have, uh, you know, a pretty sophisticated understanding of

1343
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: the area that have been there. I have guys like

1344
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 1: that that can explain it to me one essay at

1345
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:23,200
Speaker 1: a time. That's fine, Um I can't. I I just

1346
01:17:23,479 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 1: I just know at face value what happened there. Um,

1347
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 1: And I've got to put a bunch of pages marked

1348
01:17:30,200 --> 01:17:32,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of tabs like I gotta go back and

1349
01:17:32,320 --> 01:17:35,200
Speaker 1: read this tab. I gotta read this article to try

1350
01:17:35,240 --> 01:17:37,519
Speaker 1: to get it better of an understanding of uh, you

1351
01:17:37,560 --> 01:17:40,120
Speaker 1: know what happened there, But I think even beyond you

1352
01:17:40,120 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 1: know the complexities of what happened, we've seen this before.

1353
01:17:44,040 --> 01:17:46,080
Speaker 1: You know, we say it's different, but we saw the

1354
01:17:46,200 --> 01:17:49,559
Speaker 1: Orlando nightclub shooting. You know, just how do we combat

1355
01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:51,840
Speaker 1: And I know that that's a little different because there

1356
01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,240
Speaker 1: was a little bit bit more of a personal issue there.

1357
01:17:54,479 --> 01:18:00,000
Speaker 1: He also that person was not killing young women, uh,

1358
01:18:00,120 --> 01:18:03,759
Speaker 1: you know, at just a random concert. He specifically targeted

1359
01:18:03,800 --> 01:18:07,439
Speaker 1: the gay community in Florida. But I mean just radical

1360
01:18:07,479 --> 01:18:11,400
Speaker 1: Islamic terrorism and these random acts like this is there.

1361
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 1: I got into it with Jack, as I said in

1362
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,879
Speaker 1: the last episode, but I just meant, you know, what,

1363
01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:19,760
Speaker 1: what can we generally do as a country or as

1364
01:18:19,840 --> 01:18:23,679
Speaker 1: western countries to combat this or will we ever stamp

1365
01:18:23,720 --> 01:18:29,559
Speaker 1: out this problem? Um. One of the things that that

1366
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,200
Speaker 1: caught my attention was a video clip of a woman

1367
01:18:33,920 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 1: in over in England and she was basically saying, um,

1368
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 1: hey people, this is this is just the way it

1369
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,439
Speaker 1: is now that we've got to accept this, and uh,

1370
01:18:43,680 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 1: I didn't read the comments after that, but but I thought, wow,

1371
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 1: that was the That is the last thing you would

1372
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,719
Speaker 1: ever want to say under the circumstances. It's like, well,

1373
01:18:53,760 --> 01:18:56,840
Speaker 1: you know, we we we have to accept now that

1374
01:18:57,240 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: every couple of days there's going to be a mass

1375
01:18:59,160 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 1: shooting at Applebee's. Inspiring, but we still gotta go to

1376
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:06,240
Speaker 1: Applebe's because we have to eat. So let's just keep

1377
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:10,200
Speaker 1: our fingers crossed that that that's definitely not the approach.

1378
01:19:10,600 --> 01:19:13,320
Speaker 1: And I know the media, well I don't. I don't

1379
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:16,880
Speaker 1: know the media, but I'm saying when every time something

1380
01:19:16,960 --> 01:19:20,800
Speaker 1: like this happens, there's a there's a mad dash two

1381
01:19:21,400 --> 01:19:25,519
Speaker 1: keep the people calm. I understand that to to convince

1382
01:19:25,560 --> 01:19:28,400
Speaker 1: the people that it's this guy is not falling. You

1383
01:19:28,439 --> 01:19:32,080
Speaker 1: know that this is isolated, This is a lone wolf.

1384
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 1: This has nothing to do with ices. You know, this

1385
01:19:35,080 --> 01:19:38,479
Speaker 1: is not Islamic terrorism. It's just trying to convince the

1386
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:42,720
Speaker 1: people that, uh, you know that that the sky is

1387
01:19:42,760 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: not fallen. Thought to keep them calm. Otherwise, you know,

1388
01:19:46,320 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 1: than then that the retaliation comes, then you can end

1389
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:53,120
Speaker 1: up with an excalation of force and you end up

1390
01:19:53,120 --> 01:19:58,720
Speaker 1: like freaking dwarty. You know, bringing your country under martial law. Americans,

1391
01:19:58,760 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 1: they think they are. Yeah, they don't know what marshial

1392
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: laws like. They don't know. Oh yeah, I think they do,

1393
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 1: but they don't if they even had a basic understanding

1394
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:10,639
Speaker 1: that they wouldn't want any part of it. Martial law

1395
01:20:10,680 --> 01:20:13,240
Speaker 1: is one of those things gets thrown around so much. Man.

1396
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:15,599
Speaker 1: I remember, like even just during this past election, they

1397
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:17,280
Speaker 1: were like, I think Obama is going to suspend the

1398
01:20:17,320 --> 01:20:20,880
Speaker 1: election to clare marshal law. I heard it all the time. Um,

1399
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:23,920
Speaker 1: But so to play Devil's advocate with what you were

1400
01:20:23,920 --> 01:20:27,160
Speaker 1: saying is we're wrapping up here. What about the people

1401
01:20:27,160 --> 01:20:30,160
Speaker 1: who would say, statistically, you're way more likely to be

1402
01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:32,920
Speaker 1: killed by a drunk driver than an is lam and terrorists.

1403
01:20:32,920 --> 01:20:37,599
Speaker 1: I mean, which is true. And I'm not saying you know,

1404
01:20:37,640 --> 01:20:39,200
Speaker 1: what do we do when you throw our hands up

1405
01:20:39,200 --> 01:20:41,160
Speaker 1: in the air. It goes back to what you were saying.

1406
01:20:41,240 --> 01:20:48,799
Speaker 1: But yeah, um, I I am not doing anything different

1407
01:20:49,320 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: since I moved to Albuquerque. No matter what the news,

1408
01:20:52,439 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: no matter what comes out in the news, I'm not

1409
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:57,960
Speaker 1: doing anything different. I'll tell you that. I mean, I mean,

1410
01:20:58,000 --> 01:21:02,080
Speaker 1: I my heart goes out to Israel, but you know

1411
01:21:02,120 --> 01:21:05,400
Speaker 1: they walk around with all kinds of plans and with

1412
01:21:05,439 --> 01:21:08,880
Speaker 1: weapons strung across their back, um, and a whole bunch

1413
01:21:08,880 --> 01:21:12,280
Speaker 1: of plans for when when ship goes south. But it

1414
01:21:12,360 --> 01:21:15,400
Speaker 1: is impossible to keep your guard up day after day,

1415
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,679
Speaker 1: all day long. I mean even on a short stint

1416
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:21,160
Speaker 1: like guard mount for a couple of hours. When I

1417
01:21:21,200 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 1: was a private, it's impossible to keep your guard up

1418
01:21:24,160 --> 01:21:26,599
Speaker 1: that long. I had to play a game with myself.

1419
01:21:26,640 --> 01:21:29,160
Speaker 1: I had to pretend like somebody really was trying to

1420
01:21:29,200 --> 01:21:31,320
Speaker 1: break in, and you know, I can only play that

1421
01:21:31,360 --> 01:21:33,479
Speaker 1: game for an hour and a half. But but it's

1422
01:21:33,479 --> 01:21:35,800
Speaker 1: the same here. It's like, yeah, I'm gonna I'm gonna

1423
01:21:35,880 --> 01:21:38,880
Speaker 1: keep my vigil up, got my pistol all the time,

1424
01:21:39,000 --> 01:21:41,880
Speaker 1: got my pepper spray, I'm gonna, you know, check under

1425
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 1: the car. I'm gonna do this that you do it

1426
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:46,280
Speaker 1: for a few days and then it just kind of

1427
01:21:46,320 --> 01:21:50,320
Speaker 1: slepts off. Yeah, well it's that's just like um even

1428
01:21:50,400 --> 01:21:54,760
Speaker 1: here tonight. I was on Facebook earlier and Billy Joel

1429
01:21:54,840 --> 01:21:57,559
Speaker 1: is having a concert tonight at Madison Square Garden, and

1430
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:00,439
Speaker 1: I saw that he posted get get their earl because

1431
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:03,360
Speaker 1: of heightened security. And I'm sure it'll be hyped security

1432
01:22:03,400 --> 01:22:05,920
Speaker 1: for a while, and then it'll be back to what

1433
01:22:05,960 --> 01:22:08,479
Speaker 1: we know as normal security, and three six months from

1434
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:10,200
Speaker 1: now it will be the same as if you went

1435
01:22:10,240 --> 01:22:13,439
Speaker 1: to a Billy Joel concert or whatever concert prior to

1436
01:22:13,479 --> 01:22:17,479
Speaker 1: the ari on a Grande incident in the UK. I

1437
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:20,400
Speaker 1: don't have to tell you anything, and you're already obviously

1438
01:22:20,479 --> 01:22:23,200
Speaker 1: understand it very well. That's the way I see it.

1439
01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:26,240
Speaker 1: I was hoping I could be selfish for about a minute.

1440
01:22:27,040 --> 01:22:30,240
Speaker 1: I want Jack, I'd like to ask you, how did

1441
01:22:30,280 --> 01:22:34,439
Speaker 1: you how the hell did you get an interview with Asad?

1442
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:41,280
Speaker 1: How that happened? Just like cold cold call, Hey uncle

1443
01:22:41,520 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 1: shar Uh. It was no great feat of mine. I

1444
01:22:47,840 --> 01:22:51,240
Speaker 1: was invited to that conference that the Syrian government hosted

1445
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:56,599
Speaker 1: to bring journalists to Damascus. Um, yeah, way back when

1446
01:22:56,720 --> 01:23:01,439
Speaker 1: was it last November? And Um, while I was there,

1447
01:23:01,520 --> 01:23:05,799
Speaker 1: one of the organizers came and said, um, the tonight,

1448
01:23:05,880 --> 01:23:08,479
Speaker 1: this evening. Uh, you know you're gonna come with me

1449
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:13,320
Speaker 1: in a small group to interview President Assad and yeah,

1450
01:23:13,360 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 1: And I was like okay, interesting, and um it was.

1451
01:23:17,080 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 1: It was a small group of people. There's like six

1452
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:23,920
Speaker 1: of us. Um, there's a New York Times journalist, someone

1453
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:28,360
Speaker 1: from the New Yorker magazine. There was UM, a couple

1454
01:23:28,400 --> 01:23:32,040
Speaker 1: of people from different think tanks UM, and then there

1455
01:23:32,120 --> 01:23:35,240
Speaker 1: was me, And I think each of us were chosen

1456
01:23:35,640 --> 01:23:40,880
Speaker 1: to fill a different demographic to help right to to

1457
01:23:41,080 --> 01:23:46,600
Speaker 1: kind of spread the word is far and wide as uh,

1458
01:23:46,680 --> 01:23:48,760
Speaker 1: you know, the regime wanted and and and in some

1459
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:52,360
Speaker 1: I think we all spread the word in ways they liked,

1460
01:23:52,360 --> 01:23:56,160
Speaker 1: in ways they didn't like. UM. But that was kind

1461
01:23:56,160 --> 01:23:57,559
Speaker 1: of how that came about. And I think I was

1462
01:23:57,600 --> 01:24:01,120
Speaker 1: selected because I was the military voice in that group.

1463
01:24:01,680 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 1: Oh man, Okay, I think I think that's why they're like, Okay,

1464
01:24:05,240 --> 01:24:08,040
Speaker 1: this is the guy the editor of soft Wrap. They

1465
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:11,840
Speaker 1: had identified me previously as someone who is anti intervention

1466
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:15,519
Speaker 1: in Syria. UM. I had written. I had written articles saying,

1467
01:24:15,640 --> 01:24:18,240
Speaker 1: you know, we should not intervene in Syria, UM, at

1468
01:24:18,280 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 1: least like overtly, like military action. We should not be

1469
01:24:21,320 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: involved in regime change there. And that's always been my

1470
01:24:24,280 --> 01:24:29,640
Speaker 1: stance on Syria. And that, uh, that of course is

1471
01:24:29,680 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 1: something that their assad regime appreciates. You know, They're like, yes,

1472
01:24:34,520 --> 01:24:37,880
Speaker 1: we agree with this view, Jack. So I think that's

1473
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:42,280
Speaker 1: why I was selected for that. Yeah, I had a

1474
01:24:42,320 --> 01:24:46,200
Speaker 1: slight suspicion of a little of that. I've never thinking it. Well,

1475
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,160
Speaker 1: the first when I heard you did the interview, I'm like,

1476
01:24:48,840 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 1: who is this guy? Jack? I thought I knew him,

1477
01:24:50,960 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 1: But what kind of power does he have? Well, I mean,

1478
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:59,040
Speaker 1: if that if the president has knows anything at all

1479
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 1: about demands this ship, you probably want to do an interview. So, um,

1480
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:06,600
Speaker 1: I guess there you go. Yeah, that was that that

1481
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,960
Speaker 1: really threw me back. Said there was one other thing

1482
01:25:10,040 --> 01:25:13,240
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask. Yeah, but I was just gonna

1483
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:15,439
Speaker 1: say real quick that the cool thing though, that Jack

1484
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 1: has said before in a previous podcast, when you really

1485
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:21,160
Speaker 1: think about it, it will never happen again. There's never

1486
01:25:21,240 --> 01:25:23,200
Speaker 1: gonna be someone who gets to do what you did.

1487
01:25:23,360 --> 01:25:25,439
Speaker 1: Know they got what they wanted out of it too.

1488
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:28,640
Speaker 1: Like I I think I've said before, I've submitted my

1489
01:25:28,720 --> 01:25:30,960
Speaker 1: visa to go back to Syria and they're yeah, they're

1490
01:25:30,960 --> 01:25:35,880
Speaker 1: not interested. They're not interested. So sorry what we're saying, George, Um,

1491
01:25:36,000 --> 01:25:37,840
Speaker 1: I just I just wanted to be selfish again. I

1492
01:25:38,120 --> 01:25:41,040
Speaker 1: just wanted to know Ian, how did you get where

1493
01:25:41,080 --> 01:25:43,000
Speaker 1: you're at? How did you get started in this biz

1494
01:25:43,160 --> 01:25:45,360
Speaker 1: and end up where you're at right now? That's pretty

1495
01:25:45,640 --> 01:25:48,200
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Yeah it is, Um. I feel like I've

1496
01:25:48,200 --> 01:25:49,960
Speaker 1: talked about it a little bit on the show before.

1497
01:25:50,080 --> 01:25:53,600
Speaker 1: So I went to hot University for radio, got a

1498
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:58,720
Speaker 1: degree in radio first gi. Yeah. The first gig ever

1499
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 1: that I got was at Sirius xm uh. There was

1500
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:04,919
Speaker 1: this show called Fangoria Radio based off the Horror magazine

1501
01:26:05,040 --> 01:26:07,280
Speaker 1: at the time. They were doing all different types of thing.

1502
01:26:07,280 --> 01:26:10,880
Speaker 1: They were doing Fangoria TV, uh and you know, they

1503
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:13,639
Speaker 1: had this radio show on Sirius hosted by d Snyder

1504
01:26:13,640 --> 01:26:17,680
Speaker 1: from Twisted Sister. UM got to work on there. I

1505
01:26:17,720 --> 01:26:20,360
Speaker 1: helped make the theme music and it was it was

1506
01:26:20,400 --> 01:26:23,679
Speaker 1: actually like this never ending internship. So at a certain point,

1507
01:26:23,720 --> 01:26:25,559
Speaker 1: I was like, am I ever going to get like

1508
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:27,800
Speaker 1: on board here because they were paying me, but it

1509
01:26:27,840 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 1: was like minimum wage. So I left. I worked at

1510
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 1: a vitamin call center, which is like the shittiest job

1511
01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:41,280
Speaker 1: in the world. It sucks. I was just one of

1512
01:26:41,280 --> 01:26:43,840
Speaker 1: those people where people would call in, they'd want they'd

1513
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:47,639
Speaker 1: want to buy whatever products we were advertising on the radio, UM,

1514
01:26:47,840 --> 01:26:50,320
Speaker 1: and I would have to sell them as much stuff

1515
01:26:50,360 --> 01:26:53,240
Speaker 1: as I possibly could, uh, you know, and then just

1516
01:26:53,280 --> 01:26:55,160
Speaker 1: working at this call center. I'm not even why, like

1517
01:26:55,200 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: I remember, UH, we sold this prostate product. I won't

1518
01:26:58,439 --> 01:27:01,800
Speaker 1: say who the company was. And so woman called and

1519
01:27:01,880 --> 01:27:03,320
Speaker 1: it was like I keep getting up to go to

1520
01:27:03,360 --> 01:27:04,960
Speaker 1: the bathroom and I put her on hold. Them like

1521
01:27:05,000 --> 01:27:07,280
Speaker 1: does this woman not realize she's a prostate? They're like

1522
01:27:07,320 --> 01:27:09,559
Speaker 1: just fucking sell it to her anyway, you know, Like

1523
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:13,120
Speaker 1: that's that's how they were. So I was, yeah, it

1524
01:27:13,160 --> 01:27:16,439
Speaker 1: was very like soul sucking job. And at one point,

1525
01:27:16,720 --> 01:27:19,280
Speaker 1: UM the guys from Fangoria Radio called me and they

1526
01:27:19,320 --> 01:27:21,760
Speaker 1: asked if I wanted to perform the theme music for

1527
01:27:21,840 --> 01:27:24,160
Speaker 1: the uh. I think it was the fifth anniversary of

1528
01:27:24,200 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: the show at that point. I was like, all right,

1529
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:28,599
Speaker 1: I'll come in. And the show was from I think

1530
01:27:29,200 --> 01:27:33,000
Speaker 1: eleven PM to one am or something or ten pm

1531
01:27:33,400 --> 01:27:36,880
Speaker 1: to midnight. It was around there. So no one on

1532
01:27:36,920 --> 01:27:39,240
Speaker 1: a Friday, so no one wanted to work this show.

1533
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:42,519
Speaker 1: And I remember the current boardop at the time was like, hey, Ian,

1534
01:27:42,600 --> 01:27:44,000
Speaker 1: you know how to board op stuff. Do you want

1535
01:27:44,000 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: to board op this show? So I could kind of

1536
01:27:45,520 --> 01:27:48,240
Speaker 1: work on other shows and get a different schedule. And

1537
01:27:48,280 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 1: I was like yeah, fun, like I'm working at Vitamin

1538
01:27:51,360 --> 01:27:54,800
Speaker 1: call center. So serious hired me and I was That

1539
01:27:54,880 --> 01:27:57,639
Speaker 1: was two thousand and eight. I ended up board opting

1540
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:02,400
Speaker 1: that along with shows like Mojo Nixon, Who's great? Um.

1541
01:28:02,439 --> 01:28:04,639
Speaker 1: And I was a fan of Andrew Wilcow show before

1542
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,439
Speaker 1: I ever met him, and I was still going to

1543
01:28:07,520 --> 01:28:10,439
Speaker 1: Hofstra at the time, and I remember the program director

1544
01:28:10,479 --> 01:28:13,880
Speaker 1: for Hofster was like, Hey, for the McCain Obama final

1545
01:28:13,920 --> 01:28:16,960
Speaker 1: debated Hofstra, we're gonna have some people from Serious that

1546
01:28:17,000 --> 01:28:19,479
Speaker 1: you might know over at this guy Alex Bennett, And

1547
01:28:19,479 --> 01:28:22,720
Speaker 1: he was like, oh, this Cow guy. What it was

1548
01:28:22,760 --> 01:28:24,800
Speaker 1: like Andrew Wilcow and he said yeah, And that was

1549
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 1: the first time I ever met him. We kind of clicked.

1550
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:29,679
Speaker 1: Thought he was a great guy still do. I'm glad

1551
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,080
Speaker 1: that I got to work with him. Uh. And then

1552
01:28:32,120 --> 01:28:35,760
Speaker 1: how that happened was that his current producer at the time,

1553
01:28:35,880 --> 01:28:39,080
Speaker 1: Nick Rosudo, went to leave and work for The Blaze,

1554
01:28:39,840 --> 01:28:43,400
Speaker 1: and so Mike Bins his call screener, became the producer

1555
01:28:43,439 --> 01:28:46,200
Speaker 1: for that show. And just naturally, because I was hanging

1556
01:28:46,200 --> 01:28:48,519
Speaker 1: out with those guys, it kind of fit that I

1557
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,599
Speaker 1: would work on that show. Uh. I got a full

1558
01:28:51,600 --> 01:28:55,920
Speaker 1: time position because I was doing work on Senator Bill

1559
01:28:55,920 --> 01:28:58,400
Speaker 1: Bradley's American Voices and they needed a producer so I

1560
01:28:58,439 --> 01:29:00,919
Speaker 1: was like, hey, can I make this full time position

1561
01:29:01,040 --> 01:29:03,960
Speaker 1: and work on both shows? Uh? And then from working

1562
01:29:04,000 --> 01:29:07,760
Speaker 1: on Wilkow, met Brandon Webb. They you guys had a

1563
01:29:07,800 --> 01:29:11,720
Speaker 1: different guy doing this podcast at the time. He I

1564
01:29:11,720 --> 01:29:13,080
Speaker 1: don't know if you guys got rid of him or

1565
01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:15,000
Speaker 1: he left. I don't know, the whole show fired him. Yeah,

1566
01:29:15,320 --> 01:29:19,200
Speaker 1: and uh, Brandon just texted me one day and this

1567
01:29:19,320 --> 01:29:21,599
Speaker 1: all kind of happened at once. The full time it's serious,

1568
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 1: and Brandon texted me like, hey, do you want to

1569
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:26,120
Speaker 1: help us produce this show? And I even remember Brandon

1570
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:27,559
Speaker 1: saying how much do we have to pay you to

1571
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 1: do this? And I was just like, dude, I'm honored

1572
01:29:29,360 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: that you want me to be on board. Whatever you

1573
01:29:30,760 --> 01:29:33,960
Speaker 1: want to pay me. And then went to this and

1574
01:29:34,080 --> 01:29:36,960
Speaker 1: people were asking, we're two shows a week and now

1575
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,200
Speaker 1: we're doing it led to a full time position, and

1576
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 1: I guess that's uh, that's the story, and I'm I'm

1577
01:29:42,439 --> 01:29:44,640
Speaker 1: glad to be working here with you guys. But it

1578
01:29:44,800 --> 01:29:48,280
Speaker 1: is funny because I am I was always fascinated with

1579
01:29:48,280 --> 01:29:50,840
Speaker 1: what you guys did, and that's why when I was

1580
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:53,479
Speaker 1: trying to do my own thing and start my own podcast,

1581
01:29:53,520 --> 01:29:55,519
Speaker 1: somewhere in there. I had Brandon on on his my

1582
01:29:55,600 --> 01:29:59,960
Speaker 1: first guest but by no means in my special ops expert,

1583
01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:02,040
Speaker 1: and I was trying to make that clear. And I'm

1584
01:30:02,040 --> 01:30:04,479
Speaker 1: not a veteran, but I've learned so much talking to guys.

1585
01:30:05,479 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 1: This show stole. I remember that one of the funniest

1586
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:13,400
Speaker 1: reviews before we recorded, I was saying to you, how

1587
01:30:13,520 --> 01:30:17,280
Speaker 1: I'm to Jack, I'm not someone who thinks everybody is

1588
01:30:17,320 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 1: a hater who throws out criticism. So I'll read reviews

1589
01:30:20,479 --> 01:30:22,960
Speaker 1: and if someone has legit criticism and I'll try to

1590
01:30:22,960 --> 01:30:24,720
Speaker 1: improve upon it. But I still remember one of the

1591
01:30:25,000 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 1: like weirdest iTunes reviews was about me, and it said

1592
01:30:30,120 --> 01:30:33,000
Speaker 1: the host is I remember is basically the host is

1593
01:30:33,040 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: not a veteran, has no military experience, yet he acts

1594
01:30:36,320 --> 01:30:38,599
Speaker 1: like he was in a Tier one unit. How do

1595
01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:43,439
Speaker 1: I act like I was in a Tier one unit? Yeah?

1596
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:47,360
Speaker 1: That's that's he's completely off base. Yeah. I was able

1597
01:30:47,400 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 1: to kind of laugh that one off because some of

1598
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 1: the other criticism like, all right, it's legit. They were

1599
01:30:51,640 --> 01:30:54,240
Speaker 1: like he needs to expand his vocabulary and not say

1600
01:30:54,400 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 1: um dude every two seconds. I was like, yeah, that's legit. Bro, Okay, well,

1601
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:08,679
Speaker 1: I appreciate that you are active on the on the

1602
01:31:08,720 --> 01:31:11,719
Speaker 1: Writer's page as well. Thanks, because I mean, the Writer's

1603
01:31:11,760 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 1: page is one of the highlights of my day, man,

1604
01:31:13,880 --> 01:31:16,800
Speaker 1: when I can get in there and bust chops and

1605
01:31:17,280 --> 01:31:21,680
Speaker 1: make you know, legitimate, uh serious comments and they just

1606
01:31:21,720 --> 01:31:24,479
Speaker 1: make fun. But that is one of the highlights of

1607
01:31:24,479 --> 01:31:27,880
Speaker 1: my day. I'm glad George, And now so many subscribers

1608
01:31:27,880 --> 01:31:29,759
Speaker 1: are gonna wish they could be on the Writer's page,

1609
01:31:29,760 --> 01:31:35,360
Speaker 1: but it is completely secret wish. Um. Yeah, No, I

1610
01:31:35,400 --> 01:31:37,880
Speaker 1: appreciate you coming on, man, and we'll do this again soon.

1611
01:31:38,040 --> 01:31:41,120
Speaker 1: You guys could follow George on Twitter at George e

1612
01:31:41,320 --> 01:31:44,560
Speaker 1: hand the fourth so that's George e Hand I v

1613
01:31:45,360 --> 01:31:47,640
Speaker 1: on Twitter and then George. Also, it's funny you were

1614
01:31:47,640 --> 01:31:50,360
Speaker 1: saying Jack that after the work that George does, he

1615
01:31:50,439 --> 01:31:52,880
Speaker 1: probably wants to watch like Disney movies or something. So

1616
01:31:52,920 --> 01:31:55,479
Speaker 1: I do know that George does photography on the side,

1617
01:31:55,479 --> 01:31:59,080
Speaker 1: which has to be a little bit wider. Yeah, and

1618
01:31:59,160 --> 01:32:02,000
Speaker 1: I got a wedding coming up in September, so I'm

1619
01:32:02,160 --> 01:32:07,600
Speaker 1: nervous about that. Those are really difficult. But um, I

1620
01:32:07,640 --> 01:32:11,240
Speaker 1: really appreciate you guys. I appreciate this interview. Um, clearly

1621
01:32:11,280 --> 01:32:13,360
Speaker 1: you guys were really listening to what I was saying

1622
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:16,920
Speaker 1: because your questions we were excellent, so that I just

1623
01:32:17,200 --> 01:32:20,080
Speaker 1: really appreciate appreciate that about both of you. Yeah, no,

1624
01:32:20,200 --> 01:32:22,040
Speaker 1: thanks for coming on, George. I mean to me, this

1625
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:24,599
Speaker 1: is like what you're involved in is like the war

1626
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:28,880
Speaker 1: back home that you know we should be fighting. So um,

1627
01:32:28,920 --> 01:32:30,559
Speaker 1: you know, I love what you guys are doing at

1628
01:32:30,560 --> 01:32:36,080
Speaker 1: the Deliver Fund, and I think it's just great stuff. Okay,

1629
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:39,880
Speaker 1: my conflidence check. Yeah, thanks George, and I hope to

1630
01:32:39,880 --> 01:32:45,000
Speaker 1: talk to you again soon, right on. Okays, appreciate it. Yeah,

1631
01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:51,240
Speaker 1: I finally have you on yet. Have a nice afternoon, man,

1632
01:32:51,520 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 1: great interview. And uh, you know, it's a dark subject,

1633
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:56,120
Speaker 1: but I think a lot of people would say that

1634
01:32:56,320 --> 01:32:59,559
Speaker 1: he's doing God's work or because it's a pretty amazing

1635
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:01,360
Speaker 1: thing that he has to go through. And then also

1636
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:04,599
Speaker 1: when he was describing, you know, you're trying to find

1637
01:33:04,680 --> 01:33:08,360
Speaker 1: out about child pornography, but then what if you're searching

1638
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:11,160
Speaker 1: this out in the dark web, it's legal and plexities

1639
01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:13,559
Speaker 1: of it, like it's it's a pretty strange thing if

1640
01:33:13,680 --> 01:33:17,000
Speaker 1: you think about also the police officers who are mandated there.

1641
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:19,880
Speaker 1: It's not illegal, what they're what they're doing when they're assigned,

1642
01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:23,679
Speaker 1: like hey, go track down child pornographers. And the police

1643
01:33:23,680 --> 01:33:27,479
Speaker 1: officers have to see that ship. Yeah, every day it

1644
01:33:27,479 --> 01:33:29,560
Speaker 1: wears on him. And uh you know, we talk a

1645
01:33:29,640 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 1: lot about like PTSD and stuff like that, but think

1646
01:33:32,960 --> 01:33:35,000
Speaker 1: about the police officers too and some of the things

1647
01:33:35,080 --> 01:33:39,839
Speaker 1: they see. Yeah, yeah, man, it's insane. Um. As promised,

1648
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:41,960
Speaker 1: I did want to get to a few other things

1649
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:45,040
Speaker 1: before we get out of here. UM, so we'll do that.

1650
01:33:45,560 --> 01:33:48,400
Speaker 1: I guess the first thing I'll mention, you know, we

1651
01:33:48,439 --> 01:33:50,320
Speaker 1: could do a little bit more breaking news here since

1652
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna put this up as soon as possible. Uh So,

1653
01:33:53,479 --> 01:33:58,200
Speaker 1: the guy who's running for Ryan Zinky's seat, who's been

1654
01:33:58,240 --> 01:34:01,280
Speaker 1: on the show before his vacated seats, he's member of

1655
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:05,439
Speaker 1: the administration now in UM Montana. Zinki has been on

1656
01:34:05,479 --> 01:34:08,320
Speaker 1: the show. Not this guy, not this asshole, but yeah, Zink,

1657
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:11,519
Speaker 1: he has been on UM. There's only one I don't

1658
01:34:11,560 --> 01:34:14,040
Speaker 1: know if you even know this, there's only one congressman

1659
01:34:14,280 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 1: in Montana. You're the lone congressman because the population so small. Yeah,

1660
01:34:18,479 --> 01:34:20,280
Speaker 1: so it's almost like being the senator there. You know,

1661
01:34:20,520 --> 01:34:23,599
Speaker 1: you're pretty powerful you're in a pretty powerful position. So

1662
01:34:23,640 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 1: this guy, uh Greg Gianforte is running for that Congress seat,

1663
01:34:29,800 --> 01:34:32,960
Speaker 1: and this is what he did to a reporter at

1664
01:34:32,960 --> 01:34:36,960
Speaker 1: the at the Guardian, at the CBO score because you

1665
01:34:36,960 --> 01:34:39,679
Speaker 1: know you're waiting to make your decision about healthcare until

1666
01:34:39,680 --> 01:34:41,519
Speaker 1: you saw the bella and it just come out and

1667
01:34:41,520 --> 01:34:43,200
Speaker 1: what you don't talk to you about that later? Yeah,

1668
01:34:43,200 --> 01:34:51,720
Speaker 1: but there's not gonna be time. Just the last time

1669
01:34:51,800 --> 01:34:53,680
Speaker 1: that came here, you did the same thing. Get the

1670
01:34:53,720 --> 01:34:58,920
Speaker 1: hell out, get the hell over. The last guy did

1671
01:34:58,920 --> 01:35:00,920
Speaker 1: the same thing. You were a guard. Yes, you just

1672
01:35:00,960 --> 01:35:03,840
Speaker 1: broke my glasses. You last guy did the same damn thing.

1673
01:35:04,160 --> 01:35:07,439
Speaker 1: You just body find me and broke my glasses. Get

1674
01:35:07,479 --> 01:35:10,680
Speaker 1: the hell out of here. You'd like me to get

1675
01:35:10,680 --> 01:35:12,320
Speaker 1: the hunt up. And I'd also like to call the police.

1676
01:35:14,280 --> 01:35:17,880
Speaker 1: Can I get you guys his names? He just bought me.

1677
01:35:19,479 --> 01:35:22,160
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna lie. I am smiling as this goes

1678
01:35:22,240 --> 01:35:25,639
Speaker 1: on because of the ridiculousness of the situation. But like,

1679
01:35:25,960 --> 01:35:29,120
Speaker 1: this is American politics. Now you gotta ask the tough question.

1680
01:35:29,360 --> 01:35:32,200
Speaker 1: It's like we're turning into Italian politics now, like or

1681
01:35:32,320 --> 01:35:34,920
Speaker 1: like Taiwanese politics. We're gonna start having fist fights in

1682
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:37,599
Speaker 1: our parliament. Yeah, like I thought it was crazy when

1683
01:35:37,720 --> 01:35:40,080
Speaker 1: so Dan Bongino, who had on the show, and I

1684
01:35:40,120 --> 01:35:42,679
Speaker 1: do like the guy, but do you remember when the

1685
01:35:42,720 --> 01:35:45,800
Speaker 1: bodyguard uh pushed him? Oh yeah, you know, but I'm

1686
01:35:45,800 --> 01:35:48,639
Speaker 1: talking about when he was running first Senate and someone

1687
01:35:48,720 --> 01:35:50,920
Speaker 1: asked him some stuff and he you know, they were

1688
01:35:50,920 --> 01:35:53,880
Speaker 1: recording it. It's a reporter, and Dan Bongino is like,

1689
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:57,400
Speaker 1: you fucking asshole, go fund yourself. Like he flipped out

1690
01:35:57,400 --> 01:35:58,960
Speaker 1: in the sky and then they were bleashed at, you know,

1691
01:35:59,000 --> 01:36:01,320
Speaker 1: to the public, and he was just like yeah, you know,

1692
01:36:01,360 --> 01:36:03,160
Speaker 1: he came out and he was like, yeah, this guy

1693
01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:05,519
Speaker 1: was really bugging me some questions. And when you see it,

1694
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:07,360
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, this does not look good for you, man.

1695
01:36:07,439 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 1: But at least it didn't get physical. When it gets

1696
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 1: physical like this, like that's a whole another level. Yeah.

1697
01:36:13,439 --> 01:36:15,880
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like a loss of dignity. I mean,

1698
01:36:15,920 --> 01:36:18,560
Speaker 1: this is what happens when you know, we live in

1699
01:36:18,600 --> 01:36:21,040
Speaker 1: a culture where it's like people are forever children, like

1700
01:36:21,080 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 1: we don't really grow up. You know. The reaction though

1701
01:36:25,600 --> 01:36:28,280
Speaker 1: it look it sucks that happens. That should never happen

1702
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:30,880
Speaker 1: a reporter, but just where He's like, your body slammed me,

1703
01:36:30,920 --> 01:36:33,240
Speaker 1: you broke my glasses, which I know he's saying because

1704
01:36:33,240 --> 01:36:36,559
Speaker 1: he's recording audio, so he wants it to be known. What. Yeah,

1705
01:36:37,080 --> 01:36:39,400
Speaker 1: but it's just kind of funny, you know, it's almost

1706
01:36:39,439 --> 01:36:41,439
Speaker 1: like I guess that was the reporter instinct, Like if

1707
01:36:41,479 --> 01:36:44,280
Speaker 1: someone body slammed you and broke your glasses, I don't

1708
01:36:44,280 --> 01:36:46,640
Speaker 1: think your usual instinct would be to recap what he

1709
01:36:46,680 --> 01:36:50,919
Speaker 1: just did. If you were or if you were a lawyer. Yeah,

1710
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:54,080
Speaker 1: but that, yeah, that's uh some crazy shit. So I

1711
01:36:54,120 --> 01:36:57,519
Speaker 1: would I don't know, does this disqualify you now from

1712
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 1: being a congressman? Would say so. I would say that

1713
01:37:01,920 --> 01:37:05,519
Speaker 1: if you can't keep your ship together when someone asked

1714
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:08,640
Speaker 1: you a pretty straightforward question, then probably you don't have

1715
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:11,760
Speaker 1: any business holding public office. Who determines that, though, because

1716
01:37:11,760 --> 01:37:13,960
Speaker 1: I would think that voters, Yeah, this could go to

1717
01:37:14,040 --> 01:37:17,400
Speaker 1: trial at some other time, but I think he's still

1718
01:37:17,439 --> 01:37:20,720
Speaker 1: probably allowed to run. And I wouldn't be surprised if

1719
01:37:20,720 --> 01:37:24,599
Speaker 1: the voters are like the media. I like this guy. Yeah,

1720
01:37:24,720 --> 01:37:26,960
Speaker 1: I mean that could be. I mean, like we've talked

1721
01:37:26,960 --> 01:37:30,280
Speaker 1: about before and others have. Donald Trump ran an anti

1722
01:37:30,360 --> 01:37:33,160
Speaker 1: media campaign, and you know when I went on CNN,

1723
01:37:33,200 --> 01:37:36,439
Speaker 1: I said that to Brooke Baldwin, you said more than that.

1724
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:38,760
Speaker 1: To their horror, I was like, you know, this is

1725
01:37:38,800 --> 01:37:42,719
Speaker 1: the anti media campaign. The media isn't very popular. People

1726
01:37:42,720 --> 01:37:46,160
Speaker 1: don't like the media, especially news networks like those twenty

1727
01:37:46,200 --> 01:37:52,680
Speaker 1: four hour news networks are like just despised by the public. Um.

1728
01:37:52,800 --> 01:37:57,160
Speaker 1: So Trump was able to run an anti media campaign. Uh.

1729
01:37:57,200 --> 01:38:00,800
Speaker 1: And I don't know if that relate directly to this

1730
01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:04,040
Speaker 1: event or not, but you know, people becoming more and

1731
01:38:04,080 --> 01:38:07,160
Speaker 1: more hostile towards the media in general. And I mean

1732
01:38:07,200 --> 01:38:09,000
Speaker 1: I think that I think the media needs to take

1733
01:38:09,520 --> 01:38:12,160
Speaker 1: also a long hard look in the mirror and you

1734
01:38:12,200 --> 01:38:15,240
Speaker 1: know about their practices, not that specific journalists that got

1735
01:38:15,280 --> 01:38:18,120
Speaker 1: body slams, but they need to look at themselves and

1736
01:38:18,400 --> 01:38:22,080
Speaker 1: do a little bit of soul searching as well. Um.

1737
01:38:22,160 --> 01:38:26,800
Speaker 1: But I don't know, maybe politicians just feel emboldened and

1738
01:38:26,960 --> 01:38:30,360
Speaker 1: feel like, uh, you know, they can take this like

1739
01:38:30,439 --> 01:38:34,479
Speaker 1: hostile stands towards the media. Um. The smarter ones know

1740
01:38:34,560 --> 01:38:36,920
Speaker 1: how to work for the media to their advantage. You know,

1741
01:38:37,000 --> 01:38:39,920
Speaker 1: even even uh Secretary Maddis. I mean, if you look

1742
01:38:39,920 --> 01:38:42,360
Speaker 1: at the way he handles the media compared to Donald Trump,

1743
01:38:42,400 --> 01:38:44,960
Speaker 1: it's like night and day, and you know he handles

1744
01:38:44,960 --> 01:38:47,880
Speaker 1: it like an adult. Well I saw that. Paul Ryan

1745
01:38:48,000 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 1: and other leaders at the Party of UH said like,

1746
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:52,920
Speaker 1: we condemn this behavior. So it makes me wonder will

1747
01:38:52,960 --> 01:38:56,000
Speaker 1: this guy drop out or if if he feels like

1748
01:38:56,040 --> 01:38:57,840
Speaker 1: he can actually win, maybe he'll say, I don't want

1749
01:38:57,840 --> 01:38:59,320
Speaker 1: to drop out. Yeah, I don't know. It's like there's

1750
01:38:59,360 --> 01:39:02,519
Speaker 1: no shame in politics anymore. I mean, the only thing

1751
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:05,880
Speaker 1: that can really kick you out is if you get

1752
01:39:05,880 --> 01:39:08,000
Speaker 1: caught in a hotel room with a little boy or something.

1753
01:39:08,040 --> 01:39:11,400
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like Anthony Weiner, Like that was like

1754
01:39:11,439 --> 01:39:13,840
Speaker 1: the I mean he was like rubbing one out, like

1755
01:39:13,960 --> 01:39:17,880
Speaker 1: next to his infant son, you know, and supposedly. I

1756
01:39:17,880 --> 01:39:20,840
Speaker 1: mean it's I guess there's some debate, but the woman

1757
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:24,840
Speaker 1: he was sexting may or may not have been underaged. Uh.

1758
01:39:24,880 --> 01:39:27,639
Speaker 1: So it's like just short of that. I mean, you

1759
01:39:27,640 --> 01:39:30,400
Speaker 1: you know what what is disqualifying these days? I still

1760
01:39:30,439 --> 01:39:33,320
Speaker 1: need to watch the documentary on Anthony Weiner. Yeah, yeah,

1761
01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:35,280
Speaker 1: I have I have to as well. I've told it

1762
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:37,200
Speaker 1: was pretty good. I've been told it was great. Actually,

1763
01:39:37,200 --> 01:39:39,479
Speaker 1: Andrew Wilcott told me it was great. I told you.

1764
01:39:39,520 --> 01:39:41,840
Speaker 1: I watched the one about roger Stone. Right, Oh you did,

1765
01:39:41,880 --> 01:39:45,280
Speaker 1: because I told you about that. I did watch it. Uh,

1766
01:39:45,360 --> 01:39:48,479
Speaker 1: it was pretty incredible. I want to get him back

1767
01:39:48,479 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 1: in here. Yeah, I mean we've had him on. But

1768
01:39:50,439 --> 01:39:55,439
Speaker 1: the documentary was interesting because it was almost like, is

1769
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:58,519
Speaker 1: this like an expose on roger Stone or is it

1770
01:39:58,640 --> 01:40:03,360
Speaker 1: like a pr movie made for roger Stone? Because I mean,

1771
01:40:03,360 --> 01:40:05,360
Speaker 1: on one hand, he's like on there on camera and

1772
01:40:05,360 --> 01:40:08,840
Speaker 1: he's like calling the filmmaker's pinco liberal commies. But at

1773
01:40:08,840 --> 01:40:11,280
Speaker 1: the same time the thing was made, it was almost

1774
01:40:11,320 --> 01:40:14,920
Speaker 1: made as like a commercial, like an advertisement for roger Stone.

1775
01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:17,360
Speaker 1: You know what, As you're saying that I'm pulling this up,

1776
01:40:17,880 --> 01:40:19,920
Speaker 1: actually showed it to my dad, So that's why I

1777
01:40:19,920 --> 01:40:23,679
Speaker 1: know it's on here. He put out like a kind

1778
01:40:23,680 --> 01:40:26,120
Speaker 1: of a response of exactly what you're talking about. So,

1779
01:40:26,160 --> 01:40:27,519
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll play it for the people I

1780
01:40:27,520 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 1: haven't seen it. When you recommend seeing Get Me roger Stone,

1781
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:32,920
Speaker 1: I'd recommend watching it. I mean it tells you a

1782
01:40:32,960 --> 01:40:36,280
Speaker 1: lot about you know. I think there's some basic facts

1783
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:39,599
Speaker 1: that you can derive out of that um and roger

1784
01:40:39,640 --> 01:40:42,880
Speaker 1: Stone is an entertaining character if nothing else. So this

1785
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:46,479
Speaker 1: is what he said to in full wars. That's what

1786
01:40:46,600 --> 01:40:49,519
Speaker 1: roger Stone said. This is him kind of reacting to

1787
01:40:49,600 --> 01:40:52,960
Speaker 1: the premier and all that of here we go. I

1788
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:55,760
Speaker 1: gotta pull this up. Excuse a second. Here week in

1789
01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 1: New York City, let's go back. Last week in New

1790
01:40:59,360 --> 01:41:02,920
Speaker 1: York City, I saw for the first time the Netflix

1791
01:41:03,000 --> 01:41:09,479
Speaker 1: documentary Get Me roger Stone. It is a triumph. It

1792
01:41:09,640 --> 01:41:12,640
Speaker 1: is neither a love letter nor a hit piece, but

1793
01:41:12,840 --> 01:41:16,760
Speaker 1: rather a fairly accurate depiction of my political career as

1794
01:41:16,760 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 1: well as the rise of the conservative movement, born of

1795
01:41:20,280 --> 01:41:24,679
Speaker 1: the candidacy of Barry Goldwater, bearing fruit in the presidency

1796
01:41:24,720 --> 01:41:28,880
Speaker 1: of Ronald Reagan and ultimately resulting in the presidency of

1797
01:41:29,200 --> 01:41:34,800
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. Now, I tried to figure out why Netflix

1798
01:41:35,080 --> 01:41:39,719
Speaker 1: would spend millions of dollars making and promoting a video

1799
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 1: that is fair to me, and then it occurred to me.

1800
01:41:44,760 --> 01:41:49,479
Speaker 1: They expect President Donald Trump to fail, They expect him

1801
01:41:49,520 --> 01:41:53,439
Speaker 1: to be unpopular at the end of his presidency, and

1802
01:41:53,920 --> 01:41:57,880
Speaker 1: they hope to blame me for his election. Well, they're

1803
01:41:57,880 --> 01:42:02,559
Speaker 1: wrong on two counts. One, Donald Trump will be a

1804
01:42:02,600 --> 01:42:07,920
Speaker 1: successful president just because he has an idiosyncratic style of

1805
01:42:08,040 --> 01:42:12,080
Speaker 1: leadership that does not meet the mold of the air

1806
01:42:12,200 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 1: brushed professional politicians who have preceded him does not mean

1807
01:42:16,680 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 1: that he does not have the leadership qualities to make

1808
01:42:19,400 --> 01:42:23,799
Speaker 1: America great again. And the upturn the American economy shows

1809
01:42:24,120 --> 01:42:28,480
Speaker 1: that the Trump program is already working. And then, secondarily,

1810
01:42:29,000 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 1: I did not elect Donald Trump. There is no Carl

1811
01:42:33,240 --> 01:42:37,000
Speaker 1: Rove figure in Trump world. Donald Trump is by and

1812
01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:41,960
Speaker 1: large his own strategist, his own press secretary, his own

1813
01:42:42,200 --> 01:42:46,120
Speaker 1: speech writer. And because he does not operate off of

1814
01:42:46,280 --> 01:42:50,800
Speaker 1: polling or focus groups or roundtables to tell him what

1815
01:42:50,880 --> 01:42:55,160
Speaker 1: to say in order to be popular, because he speaks

1816
01:42:55,240 --> 01:42:58,120
Speaker 1: from the heart and from the gut and not from

1817
01:42:58,120 --> 01:43:01,320
Speaker 1: a speech written by some twenty five year old speech writer,

1818
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:05,639
Speaker 1: the American people realize that he is the genuine article.

1819
01:43:06,200 --> 01:43:09,680
Speaker 1: He is the master of his own fate. He is

1820
01:43:09,720 --> 01:43:13,000
Speaker 1: the architect of his presence. Zones working really hard on

1821
01:43:13,000 --> 01:43:15,840
Speaker 1: the inflection of his voice. A small part of it.

1822
01:43:16,280 --> 01:43:20,000
Speaker 1: I am happy to have played a small part of it.

1823
01:43:20,160 --> 01:43:24,000
Speaker 1: He's doing the Richard Nixon, his idol. But it is uh,

1824
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:27,280
Speaker 1: it is interesting, and I do agree with him saying

1825
01:43:27,280 --> 01:43:29,559
Speaker 1: though that it was neither a hit piece nor a

1826
01:43:29,880 --> 01:43:33,040
Speaker 1: you know, as kissing thing. I thought it was a

1827
01:43:33,040 --> 01:43:35,479
Speaker 1: little odd in that regard that I tried to stride

1828
01:43:35,479 --> 01:43:39,040
Speaker 1: across both um and and that he was fine with it.

1829
01:43:39,200 --> 01:43:40,640
Speaker 1: Like he you would think he'd be like, you know what,

1830
01:43:40,760 --> 01:43:43,640
Speaker 1: take out the part of me working with brutal dictators

1831
01:43:44,080 --> 01:43:47,240
Speaker 1: to get money for my political action committee. Uh. Well,

1832
01:43:47,280 --> 01:43:50,479
Speaker 1: it's funny that he goes on Alex Jones, some he's

1833
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:53,800
Speaker 1: intimately involved with. Isn't he like the financial backer behind

1834
01:43:53,880 --> 01:43:56,320
Speaker 1: info Wars? No, I don't think. I I think Alex

1835
01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:58,160
Speaker 1: Jones for as far as I know, I think Alex

1836
01:43:58,200 --> 01:44:00,920
Speaker 1: Jones just hired him to do a radio show. And uh,

1837
01:44:01,000 --> 01:44:03,200
Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe maybe he does have some involvement.

1838
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:06,280
Speaker 1: I've never heard that. Um. But anyway, there he is

1839
01:44:06,360 --> 01:44:10,160
Speaker 1: on on info Wars and uh, and he's saying, they

1840
01:44:10,200 --> 01:44:15,080
Speaker 1: made a largely you know, positive, accurate, fair documentary about me,

1841
01:44:15,760 --> 01:44:18,040
Speaker 1: but they made it because I'm the victim here and

1842
01:44:18,080 --> 01:44:21,080
Speaker 1: they're trying to expecting Trump to fail and then they

1843
01:44:21,080 --> 01:44:23,760
Speaker 1: can come back around. And there's all this like byzantine

1844
01:44:23,840 --> 01:44:26,920
Speaker 1: plotting going on. It's like, even when you make a

1845
01:44:27,280 --> 01:44:30,200
Speaker 1: what in his words, a fair and accurate documentary about him,

1846
01:44:30,200 --> 01:44:33,719
Speaker 1: he's somehow the victim in some sort of liberal scheme

1847
01:44:33,880 --> 01:44:35,320
Speaker 1: would you like to get him in here? You know,

1848
01:44:35,479 --> 01:44:37,040
Speaker 1: he has been like I said, he's been on the

1849
01:44:37,040 --> 01:44:40,160
Speaker 1: show with Brandon and I and uh, he's an extremely

1850
01:44:40,240 --> 01:44:43,960
Speaker 1: nice guy. I'll honestly say, I like the guy. I

1851
01:44:44,000 --> 01:44:45,920
Speaker 1: mean yes and no, I mean I guess it would

1852
01:44:45,960 --> 01:44:48,880
Speaker 1: make for you know, good radio. I don't expect him

1853
01:44:48,920 --> 01:44:53,680
Speaker 1: to be candid in any way with his answers. No,

1854
01:44:53,920 --> 01:44:57,720
Speaker 1: he's always hYP hyperbolic, and he in his words, he's

1855
01:44:57,880 --> 01:45:01,519
Speaker 1: I'm a political provocateur. You know he's not. He's not

1856
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:05,000
Speaker 1: there too wax poetic, but and he's honest about it.

1857
01:45:05,080 --> 01:45:07,280
Speaker 1: Like That's why I actually do love the quote from

1858
01:45:07,360 --> 01:45:10,320
Speaker 1: him where he says, the only thing worse, uh in

1859
01:45:10,439 --> 01:45:13,720
Speaker 1: politics than being wrong is being boring. He's like, so,

1860
01:45:13,800 --> 01:45:15,320
Speaker 1: I try to never be boring. And he says, the

1861
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:18,719
Speaker 1: only way that you get attention is to be wild

1862
01:45:18,800 --> 01:45:20,720
Speaker 1: and and to be the way Donald Trump has. Yeah,

1863
01:45:20,720 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 1: he's a political operative. He hasn't had that fact. Um. So.

1864
01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:25,560
Speaker 1: The way that we got onto this subject though, was

1865
01:45:25,600 --> 01:45:28,479
Speaker 1: the Anthony Weener documentary, which I've yet to see. I

1866
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:31,439
Speaker 1: did hear from Andrew Wilco who saw it that like,

1867
01:45:31,520 --> 01:45:35,120
Speaker 1: the best part is so Anthony Weiner would have been

1868
01:45:35,160 --> 01:45:38,559
Speaker 1: a shoe in for the mayor of New York had

1869
01:45:38,560 --> 01:45:40,360
Speaker 1: it have not been for this whole scandal. There's no

1870
01:45:40,400 --> 01:45:43,320
Speaker 1: way to Blasio would have won. But once it all happened,

1871
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:47,000
Speaker 1: he was done. And apparently the best part, like from

1872
01:45:47,000 --> 01:45:48,360
Speaker 1: what I hear, two of the best parts of the

1873
01:45:48,400 --> 01:45:52,839
Speaker 1: documentary are when he's with his staff making phone calls

1874
01:45:52,920 --> 01:45:54,880
Speaker 1: and really getting his name out there in the height

1875
01:45:54,920 --> 01:45:57,240
Speaker 1: of this whole scandal, and he's saying like, man, I

1876
01:45:57,240 --> 01:45:59,920
Speaker 1: think we could really win this thing, and his campaigned

1877
01:46:00,040 --> 01:46:02,640
Speaker 1: Eyser and all these people are like, Anthony, you're not

1878
01:46:02,720 --> 01:46:06,240
Speaker 1: gonna win, like they're just and he's like, no, I

1879
01:46:06,240 --> 01:46:08,679
Speaker 1: think we could beat this and they're like, no, it's over.

1880
01:46:08,800 --> 01:46:11,760
Speaker 1: You're not gonna win. I don't know, man, that that

1881
01:46:11,840 --> 01:46:17,000
Speaker 1: whole thing is so weird. He's obviously a mentally ill individual.

1882
01:46:17,680 --> 01:46:20,639
Speaker 1: He has a sickness of some kind. There's an addiction,

1883
01:46:20,880 --> 01:46:23,479
Speaker 1: you know, and he's been you know, he's I think

1884
01:46:23,520 --> 01:46:26,360
Speaker 1: he's undergone treatment. And then the whole thing with Humo also,

1885
01:46:26,600 --> 01:46:30,320
Speaker 1: I mean, like, Humo, why are you still with this dude?

1886
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:34,640
Speaker 1: You know? Um And I can only imagine that Hillary

1887
01:46:35,080 --> 01:46:37,000
Speaker 1: is like, no, you've got to stay by your man

1888
01:46:37,120 --> 01:46:39,360
Speaker 1: so you can use him to leap frog. And you

1889
01:46:39,400 --> 01:46:42,000
Speaker 1: know there's some there's some liberal plotting for you, right,

1890
01:46:42,040 --> 01:46:43,880
Speaker 1: I would not be surprised if she was saying that

1891
01:46:43,960 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 1: kind of thing to humor. Right. Well, there's always been

1892
01:46:46,280 --> 01:46:51,000
Speaker 1: the the rumor that they have some type of lesbian relationship.

1893
01:46:51,120 --> 01:46:55,040
Speaker 1: There is it might be a little Roger Stone as Yeah. No,

1894
01:46:55,200 --> 01:46:57,879
Speaker 1: my sources have told me that's bullshit. There's no lesbian

1895
01:46:57,960 --> 01:47:01,439
Speaker 1: relationship or anything like that. It's more are it's more

1896
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:05,200
Speaker 1: like mother and daughter in the sense that Huma is

1897
01:47:05,680 --> 01:47:09,360
Speaker 1: um about the same age as Chelsea, and she started

1898
01:47:09,360 --> 01:47:12,519
Speaker 1: working for Hillary when she was a kid. She was

1899
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:15,120
Speaker 1: still a teenager and she's been with Hillary the whole time,

1900
01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,559
Speaker 1: so gotcha. Yeah, they're pretty close. And then the other

1901
01:47:17,600 --> 01:47:19,519
Speaker 1: part of the documentary, which I still need to see

1902
01:47:19,560 --> 01:47:22,439
Speaker 1: that i've heard, is when he's just I guess in

1903
01:47:22,520 --> 01:47:25,880
Speaker 1: his hometown or something and you know, Jewish community, and

1904
01:47:25,880 --> 01:47:28,760
Speaker 1: there's some guy in a yamaka screaming at him like

1905
01:47:28,800 --> 01:47:31,759
Speaker 1: you pervert, you should be ashamed of yourself. And instead

1906
01:47:31,760 --> 01:47:34,320
Speaker 1: of Anthony just like walking. You've probably seen the clip

1907
01:47:34,360 --> 01:47:35,800
Speaker 1: because it was all over there, instead of him just

1908
01:47:35,880 --> 01:47:38,679
Speaker 1: like walking past this guy getting back to his car.

1909
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:42,680
Speaker 1: He starts engaging the guy and he's like, what about you?

1910
01:47:42,760 --> 01:47:44,599
Speaker 1: Who are you to judge me? And all this stuff.

1911
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:48,960
Speaker 1: And then when he was in the deli getting because

1912
01:47:48,960 --> 01:47:51,320
Speaker 1: it was, you know, a Jewish community, so he just

1913
01:47:51,400 --> 01:47:53,640
Speaker 1: handled it terribly. And the whole thing is like he

1914
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:55,639
Speaker 1: would get out of the spotlight after this, and he's

1915
01:47:55,640 --> 01:47:58,160
Speaker 1: still get Like, you know, I actually do feel and

1916
01:47:58,200 --> 01:48:00,479
Speaker 1: that for the guy that definitely has some type of

1917
01:48:00,479 --> 01:48:03,720
Speaker 1: an addiction. But you know, I don't I don't know

1918
01:48:03,760 --> 01:48:06,880
Speaker 1: what else to say beyond that it does suck. I mean,

1919
01:48:06,920 --> 01:48:09,880
Speaker 1: if if it was involving minors, then no, I don't

1920
01:48:09,920 --> 01:48:12,760
Speaker 1: feel bad for that. But if it was him just

1921
01:48:13,000 --> 01:48:15,400
Speaker 1: learn girls on Twitter, you know, and then claiming I

1922
01:48:15,439 --> 01:48:18,639
Speaker 1: got hacked, it's clear that it's something that like he's

1923
01:48:18,720 --> 01:48:21,600
Speaker 1: not even in control of. It's like a real addiction,

1924
01:48:21,720 --> 01:48:25,160
Speaker 1: like he literally cannot say no, you know the fact

1925
01:48:25,160 --> 01:48:28,000
Speaker 1: that he has to keep sexting women all the time.

1926
01:48:28,680 --> 01:48:30,600
Speaker 1: What's wrong with you, ma'am? Come on? And then the

1927
01:48:30,720 --> 01:48:32,800
Speaker 1: last thing before we get out of here, I will

1928
01:48:32,840 --> 01:48:34,920
Speaker 1: hand you this blowing up picture of Gene Fornes work.

1929
01:48:35,880 --> 01:48:37,400
Speaker 1: It's and I know it's not the same. I'm not

1930
01:48:37,439 --> 01:48:40,920
Speaker 1: even I've been before the software party. Okay, so I'm

1931
01:48:40,920 --> 01:48:43,679
Speaker 1: not even an attempt to read this in a Gene

1932
01:48:43,720 --> 01:48:46,880
Speaker 1: forns Worth voice. It's not the same about You're just

1933
01:48:46,880 --> 01:48:49,439
Speaker 1: gonna hear it from my voice. How do you listen

1934
01:48:49,479 --> 01:48:52,120
Speaker 1: to cast to fifty? It's monny, even me reading it

1935
01:48:52,320 --> 01:48:54,720
Speaker 1: like you want to hear his voice? All right? How

1936
01:48:54,720 --> 01:48:57,760
Speaker 1: do you listen to cast to fifty? Really appreciate the

1937
01:48:57,800 --> 01:48:59,880
Speaker 1: kind words. My kids get a real kick out of

1938
01:48:59,920 --> 01:49:02,679
Speaker 1: your remarks. I live in Denver. I thought it was Michigan.

1939
01:49:02,720 --> 01:49:04,839
Speaker 1: I live in Denver, but work all over the USA,

1940
01:49:05,240 --> 01:49:08,240
Speaker 1: currently running a project at the v A and Topeka, Kansas.

1941
01:49:08,560 --> 01:49:10,599
Speaker 1: Would love to get back to New York. Last time

1942
01:49:10,640 --> 01:49:12,880
Speaker 1: I was there, a plane flew into the building over

1943
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:15,120
Speaker 1: my head. I want to get back and pay my

1944
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:18,680
Speaker 1: respects to those folks who died that day. I included

1945
01:49:18,680 --> 01:49:21,000
Speaker 1: a picture so Jack and see that he is half right,

1946
01:49:21,439 --> 01:49:25,519
Speaker 1: half a gray beard on my face. Take care looking good, Gene,

1947
01:49:25,720 --> 01:49:29,400
Speaker 1: looking good? And I mean I think if the goatee

1948
01:49:29,479 --> 01:49:32,960
Speaker 1: is a preview, he can grow the old sailor beard.

1949
01:49:33,680 --> 01:49:35,879
Speaker 1: I think he could do it. That would be badass.

1950
01:49:36,000 --> 01:49:38,559
Speaker 1: All right, Well, we went, um, nearly two hours here.

1951
01:49:38,680 --> 01:49:40,240
Speaker 1: Now that we could do these two shows a week,

1952
01:49:40,280 --> 01:49:42,240
Speaker 1: we can go along and now you can listen to

1953
01:49:42,280 --> 01:49:47,280
Speaker 1: me rant about all things social, political, religious all day long. Yeah.

1954
01:49:47,360 --> 01:49:49,639
Speaker 1: I love it, man. And I guess to your friends

1955
01:49:49,680 --> 01:49:51,880
Speaker 1: who just listened to the show on Apple Podcast, tell

1956
01:49:51,920 --> 01:49:55,599
Speaker 1: him to become a subscriber because they get stuff like this. Absolutely.

1957
01:49:55,680 --> 01:49:58,240
Speaker 1: I wasn't even sure though with UM, I was gonna

1958
01:49:58,280 --> 01:50:00,600
Speaker 1: mention it, but I still haven't gotten an answered. The

1959
01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:04,000
Speaker 1: desiree was saying, how Memorial Day weekend, we're opening up

1960
01:50:04,040 --> 01:50:06,160
Speaker 1: the paywall. Yeah, I don't know if that includes the

1961
01:50:06,280 --> 01:50:08,679
Speaker 1: radio shop. I don't know if it includes the radio either,

1962
01:50:09,160 --> 01:50:12,640
Speaker 1: but but over the Memorial Day weekend, yeah, you'll be

1963
01:50:12,680 --> 01:50:14,960
Speaker 1: able to check out. I think the entire website of

1964
01:50:15,000 --> 01:50:19,120
Speaker 1: soft rep will be viewable from non subscribers. So tell

1965
01:50:19,120 --> 01:50:21,840
Speaker 1: your friends. Yeah, if you're interested, tell your friends, tell

1966
01:50:21,880 --> 01:50:25,840
Speaker 1: your mom, tell your pets, you know, tell everybody. Um,

1967
01:50:25,880 --> 01:50:27,960
Speaker 1: and you can go check out the website and and

1968
01:50:28,000 --> 01:50:30,439
Speaker 1: see if it's something you're interested in. You know, or

1969
01:50:30,520 --> 01:50:34,680
Speaker 1: they are, because these people are already interested. If they're yeah, yeah, um,

1970
01:50:34,760 --> 01:50:38,760
Speaker 1: you know, and if you like the content on there, um,

1971
01:50:38,800 --> 01:50:41,760
Speaker 1: and maybe you consider subscribing, and I might, you know,

1972
01:50:42,280 --> 01:50:44,880
Speaker 1: recommend that you go and check out lots of Jack

1973
01:50:44,960 --> 01:50:49,360
Speaker 1: Murphy articles. Um, but you know, check out George hands work.

1974
01:50:49,840 --> 01:50:52,240
Speaker 1: I mean, there's so many people on the website that

1975
01:50:52,280 --> 01:50:57,600
Speaker 1: have made contributions. Um, it's incredible. You've been listening to

1976
01:50:57,840 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 1: self Radio atpisodes up every Wednesday and Friday for all

1977
01:51:03,000 --> 01:51:06,519
Speaker 1: of the great content from our veteran journalists. Join us

1978
01:51:06,560 --> 01:51:09,519
Speaker 1: and become a team room member today at soft rep

1979
01:51:09,600 --> 01:51:13,280
Speaker 1: dot com. Follow the show on Instagram and Twitter at

1980
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:16,800
Speaker 1: soft Rep Radio, and be sure to also check out

1981
01:51:16,840 --> 01:51:21,360
Speaker 1: the Power of Thought podcast hosted by Hurricane Group CEO

1982
01:51:21,640 --> 01:51:46,160
Speaker 1: and Navy Seal Sniper instructor Brandon Webb, M