1 00:00:04,078 --> 00:00:07,358 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:14,718 --> 00:00:17,958 Speaker 1: Hey there, welcome or welcome back. You have found the 3 00:00:17,958 --> 00:00:21,518 Speaker 1: most interesting baseball podcast on the planet. It's The Book 4 00:00:21,518 --> 00:00:24,238 Speaker 1: of Joe with me, Tom Berducci and of course Joe 5 00:00:24,238 --> 00:00:28,398 Speaker 1: Madden and Joe going to start off with our leadoff hitter, 6 00:00:28,878 --> 00:00:31,878 Speaker 1: which is Mike Trout. Yeah, Mike Trout leading off for 7 00:00:31,958 --> 00:00:35,758 Speaker 1: the Los Angeles Angels on Tuesday Night. And I think 8 00:00:35,838 --> 00:00:37,758 Speaker 1: Joe the last time he did it was for you 9 00:00:37,918 --> 00:00:39,918 Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty in the second game of a 10 00:00:39,958 --> 00:00:40,638 Speaker 1: double header. 11 00:00:40,878 --> 00:00:42,358 Speaker 2: Okay, do you remember that? 12 00:00:43,478 --> 00:00:46,518 Speaker 3: You know what if I don't distinctly remember that, but 13 00:00:46,558 --> 00:00:48,558 Speaker 3: it's something I used to do often. If a guy 14 00:00:48,678 --> 00:00:51,398 Speaker 3: was struggling at all, as opposed to moving him down, 15 00:00:51,438 --> 00:00:53,078 Speaker 3: I would move him up. That started out in the 16 00:00:53,078 --> 00:00:56,918 Speaker 3: minor leagues in nineteen eighty five with Kevin King in Midland, Texas. 17 00:00:57,558 --> 00:01:00,478 Speaker 3: Big guy looked like Don Baylor, struggled in the first 18 00:01:00,558 --> 00:01:02,918 Speaker 3: half at two thirty three with seven homers, ended up 19 00:01:02,958 --> 00:01:05,438 Speaker 3: hitting three hundred with thirty just by moving him up 20 00:01:05,478 --> 00:01:08,238 Speaker 3: to the leadoff spot. So it's a different mindset. You 21 00:01:08,278 --> 00:01:11,078 Speaker 3: approach it differently. Nobody's better lead off hitter in history 22 00:01:11,078 --> 00:01:14,358 Speaker 3: than Anthony Rizzo. Risby still giggle about that. But I'd 23 00:01:14,358 --> 00:01:15,798 Speaker 3: prefer moving up than moving down. 24 00:01:15,998 --> 00:01:18,118 Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to ask you about that, because obviously 25 00:01:18,198 --> 00:01:19,798 Speaker 1: the angels were scuffling a little bit. 26 00:01:20,478 --> 00:01:21,838 Speaker 2: Mike was scuffling a little bit. 27 00:01:22,918 --> 00:01:25,678 Speaker 1: Ron Washington went up to Mike trout of course, and 28 00:01:25,718 --> 00:01:26,398 Speaker 1: asked him about it. 29 00:01:26,598 --> 00:01:28,438 Speaker 2: You know, Mike is like, whatever you want to do, 30 00:01:28,598 --> 00:01:30,758 Speaker 2: that's right, that's right. I'm good, that's right. 31 00:01:31,038 --> 00:01:33,718 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, I don't think Michael really wants to 32 00:01:33,758 --> 00:01:37,118 Speaker 3: hit leadoff. He preferred not, but under the circumstances, like 33 00:01:37,158 --> 00:01:40,038 Speaker 3: I said, it's just rearranging the chairs on the deck, 34 00:01:40,118 --> 00:01:42,078 Speaker 3: you know, you just do that. I did it with 35 00:01:42,118 --> 00:01:43,758 Speaker 3: long Ago and Longo didn't like it, but there was 36 00:01:43,798 --> 00:01:46,598 Speaker 3: a time he was really struggling and moved Loongo up 37 00:01:46,638 --> 00:01:48,598 Speaker 3: there and even it goes back. I think that was 38 00:01:48,638 --> 00:01:51,318 Speaker 3: like kind of maybe influenced by Gene Mak. With Brian Downing, 39 00:01:51,678 --> 00:01:55,038 Speaker 3: nobody understood why Jean hit Brian first, but Brian had 40 00:01:55,078 --> 00:01:57,038 Speaker 3: such a great I had to play the accepted his walks. 41 00:01:57,038 --> 00:01:58,758 Speaker 3: He got hit by a pitch a Lotti at power. 42 00:01:58,998 --> 00:02:01,718 Speaker 3: It's almost like schorebrick, but nothing before you know it 43 00:02:01,878 --> 00:02:05,438 Speaker 3: so again, we've had such a pre conceived a mental 44 00:02:05,518 --> 00:02:07,478 Speaker 3: notion of what a lead off hitter is supposed to 45 00:02:07,478 --> 00:02:10,198 Speaker 3: look like, and even for years, what's number two supposed 46 00:02:10,198 --> 00:02:11,838 Speaker 3: to look like? And you know, they're supposed to be 47 00:02:11,878 --> 00:02:13,118 Speaker 3: the guy that could bunt and hit and run and 48 00:02:13,158 --> 00:02:15,638 Speaker 3: all this other stuff. For me, I always wanted by 49 00:02:16,478 --> 00:02:18,838 Speaker 3: my number two guy, make sure that my number three 50 00:02:18,878 --> 00:02:20,678 Speaker 3: guy got up there with the with the runner and 51 00:02:20,718 --> 00:02:24,078 Speaker 3: scoring position. I kind of that was my eighties mentality 52 00:02:24,118 --> 00:02:26,758 Speaker 3: with it. So, yeah, it's an interesting situation. So it's 53 00:02:27,078 --> 00:02:29,278 Speaker 3: interesting spot, and I think it's one of those things 54 00:02:29,278 --> 00:02:31,398 Speaker 3: you have to rethink based on your personnel. 55 00:02:31,918 --> 00:02:34,278 Speaker 2: Yeah, and listen, it's kind of like the weather. 56 00:02:34,358 --> 00:02:34,518 Speaker 3: Right. 57 00:02:34,598 --> 00:02:38,118 Speaker 1: Everybody likes talking about lineup construction, but I'm not sure 58 00:02:38,118 --> 00:02:39,758 Speaker 1: that there's a big effect here. 59 00:02:40,118 --> 00:02:41,358 Speaker 2: Especially a short term. 60 00:02:41,478 --> 00:02:43,758 Speaker 1: You know, Listen, I would not I don't like the 61 00:02:43,838 --> 00:02:47,038 Speaker 1: idea of Mike Trout batting leadoff, except you want to 62 00:02:47,078 --> 00:02:49,918 Speaker 1: shake things up. I get that the idea that you're 63 00:02:49,958 --> 00:02:52,038 Speaker 1: guaranteeing he takes his first at bat in the game 64 00:02:52,078 --> 00:02:54,518 Speaker 1: with nobody on base, and the fact that after that 65 00:02:54,638 --> 00:02:57,158 Speaker 1: he's following the number nine spot in the order, which 66 00:02:57,158 --> 00:03:00,078 Speaker 1: says a twot eighty one on base percentage for the Angels. 67 00:03:00,238 --> 00:03:02,398 Speaker 1: I don't like sending Mike Trout up to the plate 68 00:03:02,438 --> 00:03:03,838 Speaker 1: that many times with nobody on base. 69 00:03:04,118 --> 00:03:04,558 Speaker 2: I'm sorry. 70 00:03:04,638 --> 00:03:08,678 Speaker 1: Over the long haul, it does not make sense. Short term, sure, 71 00:03:08,838 --> 00:03:12,718 Speaker 1: it's a different look and shakes things up, you know, Joe, 72 00:03:12,798 --> 00:03:15,118 Speaker 1: you know this. Sometimes you have to do something that's 73 00:03:15,158 --> 00:03:17,478 Speaker 1: a little bit unworthodox, so you look at a problem 74 00:03:17,598 --> 00:03:19,918 Speaker 1: or an approach in a very different way. I think 75 00:03:20,438 --> 00:03:23,598 Speaker 1: as a change of scenery. If you will, it can work. 76 00:03:23,758 --> 00:03:25,798 Speaker 1: I would never leave him there long term though. 77 00:03:25,918 --> 00:03:28,358 Speaker 3: One of the things when I was with the Cubs 78 00:03:28,398 --> 00:03:31,398 Speaker 3: as a National League manager, I used to occasionally hit 79 00:03:31,438 --> 00:03:33,838 Speaker 3: the picture eighth in a position player ninth, and a 80 00:03:33,838 --> 00:03:36,478 Speaker 3: lot of it was to feed one too. You know. 81 00:03:36,518 --> 00:03:38,718 Speaker 3: I just did not like the picture coming up before 82 00:03:39,238 --> 00:03:41,478 Speaker 3: dexter if. I wanted KB in the two hole as 83 00:03:41,518 --> 00:03:44,478 Speaker 3: an example, so I actually Pete Rose asked me about 84 00:03:44,478 --> 00:03:46,318 Speaker 3: that once at a card say hey, why do you 85 00:03:46,398 --> 00:03:48,318 Speaker 3: hit the picture eight? So that was part of it. 86 00:03:48,318 --> 00:03:50,438 Speaker 3: The other part of it. In the National leagueland Up, 87 00:03:50,478 --> 00:03:53,358 Speaker 3: I wanted to clear him sooner, because of course he's 88 00:03:53,358 --> 00:03:55,078 Speaker 3: got to hit every time up. If you clear him 89 00:03:55,118 --> 00:03:58,838 Speaker 3: sooner you get a sooner opportunity to possibly pinch hit 90 00:03:58,958 --> 00:04:01,678 Speaker 3: for him in a hard situation. That number eight spots. 91 00:04:01,718 --> 00:04:04,478 Speaker 3: So I liked it for that. I really got to 92 00:04:04,478 --> 00:04:06,558 Speaker 3: to like it a lot for that particular reason. But 93 00:04:06,638 --> 00:04:09,758 Speaker 3: I also felt somewhat better to have a position player 94 00:04:10,158 --> 00:04:11,358 Speaker 3: hitting in front of one and two. 95 00:04:11,718 --> 00:04:11,958 Speaker 2: Yeah. 96 00:04:11,958 --> 00:04:14,358 Speaker 1: Well, listen, we've seen it, Joe. How the leadoff spot 97 00:04:14,398 --> 00:04:16,678 Speaker 1: has really changed over time. You know, you go back 98 00:04:16,678 --> 00:04:18,998 Speaker 1: to the seventies and you had guys like Omar moreno 99 00:04:19,398 --> 00:04:22,038 Speaker 1: hdt lead off for the Pirates just because he was fast. 100 00:04:22,318 --> 00:04:24,278 Speaker 1: He didn't get on base, he had no power, but 101 00:04:24,398 --> 00:04:27,238 Speaker 1: he was fast, so he batted lead off. If you 102 00:04:27,318 --> 00:04:31,318 Speaker 1: look historically the three seasons with the most home runs 103 00:04:31,358 --> 00:04:35,118 Speaker 1: out of the leadoff spot twenty nineteen, twenty twenty one, 104 00:04:35,678 --> 00:04:39,158 Speaker 1: and twenty twenty three, teams are packing their lineup with 105 00:04:39,238 --> 00:04:41,238 Speaker 1: power at the top. And now, listen, there's more power 106 00:04:41,238 --> 00:04:43,958 Speaker 1: in the game anyway. I get that, But people want 107 00:04:44,118 --> 00:04:46,758 Speaker 1: home run hitters at the top of the lineup. On 108 00:04:46,878 --> 00:04:49,518 Speaker 1: base percentage, last year it was three point forty at 109 00:04:49,638 --> 00:04:52,358 Speaker 1: leadoff spot. That was the most in the last fourteen years. 110 00:04:52,398 --> 00:04:55,718 Speaker 1: But in baseball history that's only sixty first. 111 00:04:55,918 --> 00:04:57,678 Speaker 2: Wow, So it's they're. 112 00:04:57,478 --> 00:04:59,838 Speaker 1: Not getting on base as much, but they are slugging more. 113 00:04:59,878 --> 00:05:02,678 Speaker 1: That's kind of typical what the game is you think 114 00:05:02,678 --> 00:05:05,678 Speaker 1: about speed? Yeah, of course last year stolen bases went 115 00:05:05,758 --> 00:05:08,718 Speaker 1: up because of the new rules, but still we still 116 00:05:08,718 --> 00:05:11,318 Speaker 1: haven't got back to even a twenty fourteen level, not 117 00:05:11,358 --> 00:05:13,358 Speaker 1: even close to it in terms of stolen bases at 118 00:05:13,358 --> 00:05:14,158 Speaker 1: the leadoff spot. 119 00:05:14,278 --> 00:05:15,918 Speaker 2: So the leadoff spot is different. 120 00:05:16,038 --> 00:05:18,998 Speaker 1: It's almost like your number two or three hitter back 121 00:05:19,038 --> 00:05:21,478 Speaker 1: in the day is now in that leadoff spot. What 122 00:05:21,558 --> 00:05:25,358 Speaker 1: do you think, Joe, about guys hitting leadoff? Can anybody 123 00:05:25,438 --> 00:05:28,238 Speaker 1: hit leadoff? Have you had people who told you I 124 00:05:28,318 --> 00:05:30,838 Speaker 1: don't like to hit leadoff? What about the kind of 125 00:05:30,878 --> 00:05:32,638 Speaker 1: the mental component to hitting leadoff? 126 00:05:32,918 --> 00:05:35,438 Speaker 3: I think that's the biggest part of it, honestly. I 127 00:05:35,438 --> 00:05:37,358 Speaker 3: mean Carl Crawford did not want to hit leadoff, and 128 00:05:37,398 --> 00:05:39,838 Speaker 3: I love CC, but CC he loved the two hole. 129 00:05:39,998 --> 00:05:41,638 Speaker 3: It was his comfort zone. He wanted to be in 130 00:05:41,638 --> 00:05:43,518 Speaker 3: the two hole. So I might have done it a 131 00:05:43,598 --> 00:05:46,038 Speaker 3: couple times with him, but I know he would always 132 00:05:46,078 --> 00:05:47,638 Speaker 3: fight back on it, So I did not want to 133 00:05:47,638 --> 00:05:50,358 Speaker 3: do that. I know Mike Drought did not necessarily like 134 00:05:50,398 --> 00:05:52,358 Speaker 3: to do that. So I didn't want to push him 135 00:05:52,398 --> 00:05:54,838 Speaker 3: on that either. But the big one was Carl, because Carl, 136 00:05:54,878 --> 00:05:57,598 Speaker 3: you would think perfectly fit into that role, but he 137 00:05:58,118 --> 00:06:01,078 Speaker 3: really did not like it. On the other hand, Schwarber. 138 00:06:01,278 --> 00:06:03,798 Speaker 3: When I had schwarbz in with the Cubs early on 139 00:06:03,958 --> 00:06:05,558 Speaker 3: in his career, I wanted him to hit lead up. 140 00:06:05,598 --> 00:06:07,358 Speaker 3: I thought it was a you talked about it kind 141 00:06:07,358 --> 00:06:09,678 Speaker 3: of there with the combination of power and I thought 142 00:06:09,678 --> 00:06:12,598 Speaker 3: on base percentage, I thought he would accept his walks. 143 00:06:13,078 --> 00:06:15,998 Speaker 3: But if the strike up became so prominent the first 144 00:06:16,038 --> 00:06:18,358 Speaker 3: time he tried it that it really kind of washed out. 145 00:06:18,398 --> 00:06:20,798 Speaker 3: And of course it took the second time again. Not 146 00:06:20,838 --> 00:06:24,918 Speaker 3: a prototypical leadoff hitter, but wow, forty some homers and 147 00:06:24,958 --> 00:06:27,198 Speaker 3: then they're leading one nothing a lot when he does that. 148 00:06:27,398 --> 00:06:31,038 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's a combination of things, a combination 149 00:06:31,118 --> 00:06:34,078 Speaker 3: of thoughts. It's the mentality of the player. Another on 150 00:06:34,198 --> 00:06:36,398 Speaker 3: like Dexter. Fowler loved it. And Dexter would go through 151 00:06:36,398 --> 00:06:38,198 Speaker 3: some periods man, where he punched out a lot for 152 00:06:38,358 --> 00:06:40,998 Speaker 3: he would go some he would get he would disappear offensively, 153 00:06:41,038 --> 00:06:43,278 Speaker 3: but man, when he got hot, he'd carry it for 154 00:06:43,398 --> 00:06:46,358 Speaker 3: weeks or months. I mean it was. It's just it 155 00:06:46,438 --> 00:06:49,238 Speaker 3: is a it's a mindset. It's not mining to be 156 00:06:49,278 --> 00:06:52,718 Speaker 3: the first guy up there. Some are not uncomfortable. They 157 00:06:52,718 --> 00:06:54,558 Speaker 3: want to see a couple of pitches, they want somebody 158 00:06:54,638 --> 00:06:57,598 Speaker 3: to come back and see what they're seeing, et cetera. 159 00:06:58,078 --> 00:07:01,438 Speaker 3: So it is it's it's a it's a mentality. Uh, 160 00:07:01,758 --> 00:07:04,918 Speaker 3: you get the right kind of blend of ability skill 161 00:07:04,998 --> 00:07:07,318 Speaker 3: set where the guy knows how to accept his walks, 162 00:07:07,358 --> 00:07:09,758 Speaker 3: gets on base, has a little pop, caet at least 163 00:07:09,758 --> 00:07:11,718 Speaker 3: put the ball in the gap like Zobrist. I mean, 164 00:07:11,718 --> 00:07:14,558 Speaker 3: Ben was not, you know, prototypical anything, but Soe was 165 00:07:14,598 --> 00:07:16,998 Speaker 3: really good at that because he did he was on 166 00:07:17,078 --> 00:07:19,278 Speaker 3: base a lot, but he had some pop and he 167 00:07:19,318 --> 00:07:22,198 Speaker 3: did not mind doing it. Zoe is the consummate utility guy. 168 00:07:22,238 --> 00:07:24,518 Speaker 3: So I think it comes down to a combination of 169 00:07:24,558 --> 00:07:26,478 Speaker 3: skill set and you have to have the right mindset 170 00:07:26,478 --> 00:07:27,318 Speaker 3: to want to do it. 171 00:07:27,318 --> 00:07:28,878 Speaker 2: That reminds me of each hero. 172 00:07:28,958 --> 00:07:31,638 Speaker 1: Suzuki he used to love hitting lead off, especially on 173 00:07:31,678 --> 00:07:34,638 Speaker 1: the road because and this is typical each hero. He 174 00:07:34,638 --> 00:07:38,078 Speaker 1: would say, the batter's box was perfect, undisturbed. 175 00:07:37,558 --> 00:07:38,678 Speaker 2: Almost like a zen garden. 176 00:07:38,798 --> 00:07:39,278 Speaker 3: That's right. 177 00:07:39,918 --> 00:07:42,438 Speaker 1: I was going to say, let's talk about Mike Trout, Okay, 178 00:07:42,478 --> 00:07:45,278 Speaker 1: because I think we're looking now at a different phase 179 00:07:45,318 --> 00:07:47,278 Speaker 1: of Mike Trout's career. And actually we've seen in the 180 00:07:47,318 --> 00:07:51,198 Speaker 1: last couple of years Mike Trout to me, is going 181 00:07:51,198 --> 00:07:53,478 Speaker 1: to hit if he stays healthy, fifty home runs this year. 182 00:07:53,918 --> 00:07:57,998 Speaker 1: He has become a premiere slugger. He's not going to 183 00:07:57,998 --> 00:08:00,318 Speaker 1: be the average hitter that he was before. He's still 184 00:08:00,358 --> 00:08:02,878 Speaker 1: a few bases, but you know, you don't want him 185 00:08:02,958 --> 00:08:05,078 Speaker 1: running a lot. But when you look at the type 186 00:08:05,078 --> 00:08:08,318 Speaker 1: of hitter Mike Trout has become, he is a extreme 187 00:08:08,478 --> 00:08:10,958 Speaker 1: fly ball hitter. He pulls the ball a lot more 188 00:08:10,998 --> 00:08:12,758 Speaker 1: than he did in the past. He swings and misses 189 00:08:12,798 --> 00:08:14,958 Speaker 1: more than he does in the past. But when he connects, 190 00:08:14,998 --> 00:08:17,638 Speaker 1: he's hitting home runs. When he's hitting fly balls, they're 191 00:08:17,678 --> 00:08:19,278 Speaker 1: going out at a tremendous rate. 192 00:08:19,758 --> 00:08:22,998 Speaker 2: Is nine home runs and twelve RBIs this year. 193 00:08:23,598 --> 00:08:26,118 Speaker 1: So if I'm telling you, Joe, I believe if Mike 194 00:08:26,198 --> 00:08:28,958 Speaker 1: Trout plays a full season, he's going to hit at 195 00:08:29,038 --> 00:08:32,158 Speaker 1: least fifty home runs, and I think he's become a 196 00:08:32,318 --> 00:08:35,038 Speaker 1: premiere slugger rather. 197 00:08:34,878 --> 00:08:36,398 Speaker 2: Than we used to talk about Mike as the best 198 00:08:36,438 --> 00:08:37,198 Speaker 2: hitter in baseball. 199 00:08:37,318 --> 00:08:39,998 Speaker 1: Right now, I think that's joey Otani, But in terms 200 00:08:40,038 --> 00:08:42,678 Speaker 1: of elite slugger, that's the way I look at Mike 201 00:08:42,718 --> 00:08:43,438 Speaker 1: Trout right now. 202 00:08:43,558 --> 00:08:45,998 Speaker 3: Well, again, if you want to go that direction with him, 203 00:08:46,238 --> 00:08:47,998 Speaker 3: there's a lot of comps there with Scherburn in a 204 00:08:48,038 --> 00:08:51,318 Speaker 3: sense because for me, Kyle's always hit a lot of 205 00:08:51,358 --> 00:08:54,238 Speaker 3: solo home runs, and I think if Mike continues to 206 00:08:54,318 --> 00:08:56,158 Speaker 3: hit like at the top of the batting order, he 207 00:08:56,238 --> 00:08:58,438 Speaker 3: might get pitched out a little bit more. But if 208 00:08:58,478 --> 00:09:00,438 Speaker 3: you put him a little bit more deeply into the lineup. 209 00:09:00,438 --> 00:09:04,238 Speaker 3: And this is a weird philosophy, but like which we're two, 210 00:09:04,238 --> 00:09:05,518 Speaker 3: I don't think he gets as pitched it at a 211 00:09:05,518 --> 00:09:07,918 Speaker 3: home run with as often. I mean, pitchers know that 212 00:09:07,918 --> 00:09:10,038 Speaker 3: there's people on base. I'm not going to, you know, 213 00:09:10,398 --> 00:09:12,518 Speaker 3: just challenge him in this situation, whether it's a breaking 214 00:09:12,558 --> 00:09:15,718 Speaker 3: ball strike or even velocity down, which Michael loves. So 215 00:09:16,758 --> 00:09:19,398 Speaker 3: I think there's a component to that too. When you 216 00:09:19,438 --> 00:09:23,598 Speaker 3: see homers and a little number of RBIs, these are 217 00:09:23,598 --> 00:09:25,638 Speaker 3: the guys that are getting challenged with nobody on base, 218 00:09:25,798 --> 00:09:29,318 Speaker 3: not so much with people on Troy Glass for a 219 00:09:29,358 --> 00:09:31,438 Speaker 3: while did that early on in his career, also with 220 00:09:31,518 --> 00:09:34,318 Speaker 3: the Angels. I usually see a big homer number and 221 00:09:34,398 --> 00:09:37,318 Speaker 3: not such a big RBI number because he gets challenged 222 00:09:37,318 --> 00:09:40,118 Speaker 3: more with nobody on just watch that stuff. I'm a 223 00:09:40,158 --> 00:09:42,438 Speaker 3: believer in that there's a certain group that they're so 224 00:09:42,558 --> 00:09:45,998 Speaker 3: respected by the other side that they will they get 225 00:09:45,998 --> 00:09:48,798 Speaker 3: pitched that differently with RBI situation versus not. 226 00:09:49,398 --> 00:09:52,878 Speaker 1: Yeah, by Trout right now, ten singles, nine home runs, 227 00:09:53,438 --> 00:09:57,438 Speaker 1: so when he hits the ball, it's going out. And 228 00:09:57,438 --> 00:09:59,238 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about a situation the other 229 00:09:59,318 --> 00:10:01,718 Speaker 1: night before Mike hit lead off, there was he made 230 00:10:01,718 --> 00:10:03,758 Speaker 1: the last out of the game against the Baltimore Orioles, 231 00:10:04,278 --> 00:10:07,278 Speaker 1: loaded bottom of the ninth inning, Craig Kimberle on the mound, 232 00:10:07,558 --> 00:10:09,638 Speaker 1: and you know this is a matchup what kimber was 233 00:10:09,638 --> 00:10:12,478 Speaker 1: going to try to do. Kimberle's got that high angle 234 00:10:13,078 --> 00:10:15,198 Speaker 1: fastball top of the zone. We all know that's the 235 00:10:15,638 --> 00:10:18,358 Speaker 1: one places pitchers like to attack. Mike Trout fastballs at 236 00:10:18,358 --> 00:10:20,918 Speaker 1: the top of the zone. Mike looked at four pitches, 237 00:10:20,958 --> 00:10:22,918 Speaker 1: three of those were strikes. He struck out for the 238 00:10:22,958 --> 00:10:25,758 Speaker 1: lost out of the game without swinging the bat. And 239 00:10:25,798 --> 00:10:29,278 Speaker 1: then after the game, Ron Washington said, you've just got 240 00:10:29,318 --> 00:10:32,998 Speaker 1: to swing the bat there, And I think some people 241 00:10:33,038 --> 00:10:35,278 Speaker 1: when they saw the quote Joe took it as the 242 00:10:35,358 --> 00:10:39,318 Speaker 1: manager sort of calling out Mike Trout. I didn't have 243 00:10:39,358 --> 00:10:41,398 Speaker 1: a problem with it. I mean, it's pretty obvious. I'm 244 00:10:41,398 --> 00:10:43,078 Speaker 1: sure Mike would say the same thing. I mean, he 245 00:10:43,198 --> 00:10:47,318 Speaker 1: obviously wasn't seeing that fastball as well as he thought. 246 00:10:47,398 --> 00:10:49,118 Speaker 1: You know, Mike has done a good job staying off 247 00:10:49,158 --> 00:10:50,998 Speaker 1: the high fast balls out of the zone, and he 248 00:10:51,078 --> 00:10:54,198 Speaker 1: must have thought they were out of his zone. But listen, 249 00:10:54,478 --> 00:10:56,918 Speaker 1: I go back to the days where managers like Billy Martin, 250 00:10:56,998 --> 00:11:01,598 Speaker 1: Dallas Green, Davy Johnson. These managers would call out players. 251 00:11:01,198 --> 00:11:02,638 Speaker 2: On a daily basis. 252 00:11:02,838 --> 00:11:05,438 Speaker 1: I mean, feeling would be hurt all the time and 253 00:11:05,478 --> 00:11:08,878 Speaker 1: the manager didn't care. So in today's game, when you 254 00:11:08,918 --> 00:11:12,198 Speaker 1: have a manager who says about Mike Trout, you've just 255 00:11:12,238 --> 00:11:13,278 Speaker 1: got to swing the bat. 256 00:11:13,318 --> 00:11:16,638 Speaker 2: There, eyebrows get raised, and I don't. 257 00:11:16,838 --> 00:11:19,558 Speaker 1: I'm sure Roan Washington did not mean it as a 258 00:11:19,678 --> 00:11:24,198 Speaker 1: complaint or a criticism of Mike Trout. Is basically stating 259 00:11:24,278 --> 00:11:27,198 Speaker 1: the obvious. But in today's world, man, you say the 260 00:11:27,198 --> 00:11:29,478 Speaker 1: most innocuous thing, and the media is going to say, 261 00:11:29,478 --> 00:11:30,958 Speaker 1: WHOA he called them out all. 262 00:11:31,078 --> 00:11:34,078 Speaker 3: I would be curious as whether or not Wash that 263 00:11:34,238 --> 00:11:36,118 Speaker 3: said something to him before he actually went into the 264 00:11:36,118 --> 00:11:39,558 Speaker 3: press room, possibly as they're passing walking up the tunnel. 265 00:11:39,598 --> 00:11:42,638 Speaker 3: But you're right, I probably would not have said that. 266 00:11:43,278 --> 00:11:45,838 Speaker 3: I don't think I would have said that for the 267 00:11:45,878 --> 00:11:49,158 Speaker 3: reasons you're just explained. You know, we as a major 268 00:11:49,198 --> 00:11:53,118 Speaker 3: league managers, you have two press conferences a day, and 269 00:11:53,158 --> 00:11:55,198 Speaker 3: I thought there were two team meetings per day. I 270 00:11:55,198 --> 00:11:58,198 Speaker 3: would try to use that time to send messages to 271 00:11:58,238 --> 00:12:02,758 Speaker 3: the group, not necessarily individuals, because the guys either watch it, 272 00:12:02,998 --> 00:12:06,278 Speaker 3: they watched the the feed after the game, they'll see 273 00:12:06,278 --> 00:12:09,318 Speaker 3: the little snippets played that night, or read a newspaper 274 00:12:09,438 --> 00:12:11,558 Speaker 3: online the next day. So I always thought it was 275 00:12:11,598 --> 00:12:15,358 Speaker 3: a great way of communicating to the players without actually 276 00:12:15,478 --> 00:12:18,638 Speaker 3: having them sit in a room like that. So that's 277 00:12:18,718 --> 00:12:21,558 Speaker 3: how I looked at all of that. But I probably 278 00:12:22,438 --> 00:12:24,638 Speaker 3: it came down to calling out a player. I think 279 00:12:24,678 --> 00:12:28,718 Speaker 3: you and I talked about this. I always thought praise publicly, 280 00:12:28,758 --> 00:12:32,758 Speaker 3: criticized privately, and again, like you're saying, it's not hypercritical. 281 00:12:32,838 --> 00:12:35,118 Speaker 3: I think Wash was just stating the obvious. Like you said, 282 00:12:35,318 --> 00:12:37,198 Speaker 3: I don't think he thought anything of it, but he 283 00:12:37,238 --> 00:12:39,198 Speaker 3: said right there, was just reacting to him as a 284 00:12:39,198 --> 00:12:42,958 Speaker 3: baseball player. Also, he's a former major league player. He's 285 00:12:42,958 --> 00:12:45,678 Speaker 3: gone through that situation a thousand times, and I'm sure 286 00:12:45,678 --> 00:12:47,638 Speaker 3: he's had that conversation with players in the past. So 287 00:12:47,638 --> 00:12:50,518 Speaker 3: I think it was just like you said, totally innocuous. However, 288 00:12:50,518 --> 00:12:54,438 Speaker 3: it can be construed differently, but yeah, I think as 289 00:12:54,478 --> 00:12:58,278 Speaker 3: a major league manager, my impression is it's a perfect 290 00:12:58,278 --> 00:13:01,438 Speaker 3: opportunity on a daily basis to really emphasize that the group, 291 00:13:01,718 --> 00:13:04,438 Speaker 3: whether it's praise or maybe not so much prey worthy, 292 00:13:04,478 --> 00:13:07,598 Speaker 3: but nevertheless, you're still getting messages across because you know, 293 00:13:07,638 --> 00:13:09,038 Speaker 3: the guys are watching and. 294 00:13:09,158 --> 00:13:11,158 Speaker 2: Listening, especially in today's environment. 295 00:13:11,518 --> 00:13:13,918 Speaker 1: You're right, it's just the media also is watching and 296 00:13:13,958 --> 00:13:17,038 Speaker 1: listening closely. Mostly you know this, Joe, what is said 297 00:13:17,038 --> 00:13:18,518 Speaker 1: in those meetings, it's pretty vanilla. 298 00:13:18,558 --> 00:13:19,838 Speaker 2: It's boiler plate stuff. 299 00:13:20,198 --> 00:13:23,998 Speaker 1: So if anything vengers outside the norm, it gets a 300 00:13:23,998 --> 00:13:24,838 Speaker 1: lot more attention. 301 00:13:24,918 --> 00:13:26,678 Speaker 2: And I go back to when Joe Giardi. 302 00:13:26,798 --> 00:13:29,878 Speaker 1: Girardi was the Yankees manager and Gary Sanchez was having 303 00:13:29,918 --> 00:13:32,118 Speaker 1: a tough time defensively behind the plate. 304 00:13:32,278 --> 00:13:33,518 Speaker 2: And he had a rough game. 305 00:13:33,878 --> 00:13:36,398 Speaker 1: You know, some wild pitches, balls he didn't stop, and 306 00:13:36,638 --> 00:13:39,638 Speaker 1: the only thing Joe Girardi said was we've got to 307 00:13:39,678 --> 00:13:42,718 Speaker 1: be better back there. And I don't want to say 308 00:13:42,718 --> 00:13:46,278 Speaker 1: he lost Gary Sanchez, but he kind of lost confidence. 309 00:13:46,358 --> 00:13:49,318 Speaker 1: Gary Sanchez did in his manager because he did feel 310 00:13:49,318 --> 00:13:52,038 Speaker 1: like his manager was calling him out. I saw it 311 00:13:52,078 --> 00:13:53,678 Speaker 1: as someone who's been around the game for a long 312 00:13:53,718 --> 00:13:57,158 Speaker 1: time as something innocuous. But today's young player, it just 313 00:13:57,238 --> 00:14:00,998 Speaker 1: does not get criticized, not publicly. And when I say criticized, 314 00:14:01,318 --> 00:14:04,158 Speaker 1: I'm not saying it mild, but anything that's all along 315 00:14:04,198 --> 00:14:06,718 Speaker 1: the lines of you didn't you know, it wasn't a 316 00:14:06,718 --> 00:14:10,078 Speaker 1: great job. And I think that's to today's manager. You 317 00:14:10,118 --> 00:14:12,198 Speaker 1: know this, Joe, you have to be super careful with 318 00:14:12,358 --> 00:14:16,038 Speaker 1: younger players, this generation of players in how you quote 319 00:14:16,118 --> 00:14:17,598 Speaker 1: unquote criticize. 320 00:14:17,078 --> 00:14:20,038 Speaker 3: Them, even away from that too, even like it just 321 00:14:20,118 --> 00:14:23,998 Speaker 3: in a normal day routine of the day, because you 322 00:14:24,038 --> 00:14:26,998 Speaker 3: and I both and I'm not trying to state anything 323 00:14:27,038 --> 00:14:28,918 Speaker 3: or pet anybody on the back, whatever you want to 324 00:14:28,958 --> 00:14:31,518 Speaker 3: consider it, but played for a lot tougher. You know, 325 00:14:32,678 --> 00:14:35,958 Speaker 3: the high school football coaches coming on up, even some 326 00:14:35,998 --> 00:14:38,638 Speaker 3: of the baseball coaches could be very cruel in their 327 00:14:38,638 --> 00:14:42,758 Speaker 3: assessment of you. You know, and I kind of liked it. 328 00:14:42,918 --> 00:14:45,718 Speaker 3: I did, like when I considered a guy to be 329 00:14:45,958 --> 00:14:49,158 Speaker 3: really competent as a coach. He got on me. I 330 00:14:49,198 --> 00:14:53,238 Speaker 3: don't think one time I ever got aired out by 331 00:14:53,278 --> 00:14:56,198 Speaker 3: a coach that I thought, you know, kind of screw him, 332 00:14:56,838 --> 00:14:58,678 Speaker 3: you know, what are you talking about here? I just 333 00:14:58,878 --> 00:15:01,558 Speaker 3: always took it to heart. I don't even know the way. 334 00:15:02,278 --> 00:15:04,958 Speaker 3: The way I've always described it more recently is that 335 00:15:05,038 --> 00:15:07,838 Speaker 3: when you do that as a manager, whether it's in 336 00:15:07,838 --> 00:15:11,078 Speaker 3: a private situation or even publicly, a lot of players 337 00:15:11,118 --> 00:15:13,118 Speaker 3: will look for allies, and they're going to get sympathy 338 00:15:13,158 --> 00:15:16,278 Speaker 3: from other players. I like the group that doesn't provide 339 00:15:16,318 --> 00:15:18,398 Speaker 3: sympathy to the player that's been called out. I prefer 340 00:15:18,478 --> 00:15:21,078 Speaker 3: that they would actually say, you know what, he was right, 341 00:15:21,158 --> 00:15:24,078 Speaker 3: The manager was right. He's not trying to embarrass you. 342 00:15:24,158 --> 00:15:27,078 Speaker 3: He's just trying to state the obvious and hopefully get 343 00:15:27,118 --> 00:15:30,518 Speaker 3: you to do better in a situation. So that's what 344 00:15:30,598 --> 00:15:33,958 Speaker 3: happens allies, and that's where clicks are developed, especially in 345 00:15:33,998 --> 00:15:37,518 Speaker 3: today's world, not just in baseball, because when you attempt 346 00:15:37,518 --> 00:15:41,158 Speaker 3: to be constructively critical, I think that a lot of 347 00:15:41,158 --> 00:15:44,918 Speaker 3: times the person I guess the target of the criticism 348 00:15:45,398 --> 00:15:48,358 Speaker 3: looks for allies, and that's where it can get kind 349 00:15:48,398 --> 00:15:51,398 Speaker 3: of difficult. And I really that's where I think a 350 00:15:51,438 --> 00:15:55,478 Speaker 3: well structured clubhouse. When that is attempted to happen, somebody 351 00:15:55,518 --> 00:15:57,598 Speaker 3: tries to do that, they're going to hear back from 352 00:15:57,638 --> 00:16:00,478 Speaker 3: Listen Man, No, no, he was right, or go talk 353 00:16:00,518 --> 00:16:02,158 Speaker 3: to him, something to that effect. But I'm not going 354 00:16:02,198 --> 00:16:05,958 Speaker 3: to be here and just to comfort you because probably 355 00:16:06,038 --> 00:16:08,438 Speaker 3: or possibly this other guy has felt slighted in the past. 356 00:16:08,478 --> 00:16:10,598 Speaker 2: Two yeah, well said. 357 00:16:10,638 --> 00:16:13,118 Speaker 1: And you know the extreme example for me is someone 358 00:16:13,118 --> 00:16:16,238 Speaker 1: who covered George Steinbrenner. Man, if you played for the Yankees, 359 00:16:16,278 --> 00:16:18,878 Speaker 1: you could not have finn skin. I mean, at one 360 00:16:18,878 --> 00:16:22,158 Speaker 1: time when Dave Rghetti blew a game, Steinbrenner called about 361 00:16:22,158 --> 00:16:24,238 Speaker 1: and he said he should be so embarrassed he should 362 00:16:24,278 --> 00:16:26,398 Speaker 1: walk out of the ballpark with the hot dog vendors. 363 00:16:26,798 --> 00:16:30,918 Speaker 1: Of course, famously, he called Dave Winfield mister May. He said, 364 00:16:30,918 --> 00:16:32,518 Speaker 1: you know, Reggie's mister October. 365 00:16:32,758 --> 00:16:35,878 Speaker 2: We have mister May here. This went on and all 366 00:16:35,918 --> 00:16:37,758 Speaker 2: the time, and that was. 367 00:16:37,718 --> 00:16:40,878 Speaker 1: The way George thought he was motivating the players, and 368 00:16:40,918 --> 00:16:42,878 Speaker 1: in some ways he did back then. And I think 369 00:16:43,278 --> 00:16:46,198 Speaker 1: your point about clubhouse culture was super important, Joe, because 370 00:16:46,198 --> 00:16:49,198 Speaker 1: I saw around the Yankees then no one got their 371 00:16:49,238 --> 00:16:52,158 Speaker 1: egos bruised. When George Steinbrenner called them out, they sort 372 00:16:52,158 --> 00:16:55,278 Speaker 1: of rallied, the circled the wagons and rallied amongst each other, 373 00:16:55,398 --> 00:16:56,758 Speaker 1: like let's go show that guy. 374 00:16:56,958 --> 00:16:58,518 Speaker 2: It was us against them at that point. 375 00:16:58,518 --> 00:17:00,118 Speaker 1: And I think that's what he was trying to do, 376 00:17:00,598 --> 00:17:03,118 Speaker 1: that sort of negative motivation. I'm not saying it's the 377 00:17:03,198 --> 00:17:04,878 Speaker 1: right thing to do, It's just the way it was 378 00:17:04,918 --> 00:17:08,798 Speaker 1: back then. It can't happen anymore because I don't think 379 00:17:09,118 --> 00:17:11,918 Speaker 1: the clubhouse would rally around negative motivation. 380 00:17:12,238 --> 00:17:12,998 Speaker 2: It would fracture. 381 00:17:13,318 --> 00:17:15,718 Speaker 3: I think if you have a bunch of veterans that 382 00:17:15,758 --> 00:17:18,678 Speaker 3: are really tough minded. It's almost like watching an episode 383 00:17:18,678 --> 00:17:22,438 Speaker 3: on Seinfeld when Steinbrenner is on there, Larry David's being 384 00:17:22,438 --> 00:17:24,918 Speaker 3: his voice. They'll laugh at it, they really will. They'll 385 00:17:24,958 --> 00:17:27,318 Speaker 3: laugh at it among each other. You can't laugh at 386 00:17:27,318 --> 00:17:29,758 Speaker 3: it in front of mister Steinbrenner. You can't laugh at 387 00:17:29,798 --> 00:17:33,078 Speaker 3: it to a newspaper reporter. But because listen, I've heard 388 00:17:33,118 --> 00:17:35,158 Speaker 3: a lot of great stories about that, and there's others 389 00:17:36,158 --> 00:17:38,198 Speaker 3: other kind of coaches or managers that may have been 390 00:17:38,238 --> 00:17:41,238 Speaker 3: a little bit more on the negative side and said 391 00:17:41,318 --> 00:17:44,958 Speaker 3: things that in the moment sound absolutely awful, but when 392 00:17:44,958 --> 00:17:47,918 Speaker 3: a group gets together, it's kind of funny. I mean, 393 00:17:47,958 --> 00:17:52,438 Speaker 3: that's the best way to really get through situations like that. 394 00:17:52,558 --> 00:17:55,358 Speaker 3: Always consider the source. Always consider the source. Where's it 395 00:17:55,398 --> 00:17:57,278 Speaker 3: coming from, and what kind of esteem do you hold 396 00:17:57,318 --> 00:18:01,518 Speaker 3: that source within? And so anyway, I've been with a 397 00:18:02,078 --> 00:18:04,638 Speaker 3: lot of guys, man, and I'll hear different things that 398 00:18:04,678 --> 00:18:07,118 Speaker 3: were said in the clubhouse by either Steinbrenner or others, 399 00:18:07,518 --> 00:18:10,318 Speaker 3: and man, it could be very biting, no question, and 400 00:18:10,358 --> 00:18:12,958 Speaker 3: the kids maybe sting in the beginning, but when it's 401 00:18:12,958 --> 00:18:14,678 Speaker 3: a tiny knick group, a lot of time you just 402 00:18:14,758 --> 00:18:16,038 Speaker 3: laugh at it pretty hard. 403 00:18:16,558 --> 00:18:18,838 Speaker 1: Hey, as long as we're on the subject of creating 404 00:18:18,878 --> 00:18:21,878 Speaker 1: some friction. When we get back, we're going to talk 405 00:18:21,918 --> 00:18:24,118 Speaker 1: about one of Joe's favorite topics. 406 00:18:23,678 --> 00:18:26,958 Speaker 2: And that is umpires. We'll be back with that right 407 00:18:26,998 --> 00:18:40,438 Speaker 2: after this. Umpires. 408 00:18:40,558 --> 00:18:45,478 Speaker 1: Joe, Listen, we don't hear a lot about friction between 409 00:18:45,478 --> 00:18:48,798 Speaker 1: managers and umpires. It's it's this is the replay era, right, 410 00:18:48,918 --> 00:18:51,878 Speaker 1: I mean, you have replay takeaway arguments on the bases, 411 00:18:52,118 --> 00:18:54,438 Speaker 1: and so all you've got left is balls and strikes. 412 00:18:54,838 --> 00:18:57,918 Speaker 1: And we saw I've never seen anything like this the 413 00:18:57,958 --> 00:19:00,278 Speaker 1: other day where Aaron Boone was thrown out of the 414 00:19:00,278 --> 00:19:02,878 Speaker 1: game by a Hunter Wendel set because of something a 415 00:19:02,878 --> 00:19:06,958 Speaker 1: fans said. Just to recap the story, it was just 416 00:19:07,118 --> 00:19:08,478 Speaker 1: five pitches into the game. 417 00:19:08,998 --> 00:19:10,758 Speaker 2: Aaron Boone does have a reputation. 418 00:19:10,838 --> 00:19:12,878 Speaker 1: I mean, to me, he gets thrown out way too 419 00:19:12,958 --> 00:19:15,678 Speaker 1: often and he's got to really dial it back a 420 00:19:15,678 --> 00:19:18,798 Speaker 1: little bit. But anyway, he went off and Hunter Wendels 421 00:19:18,878 --> 00:19:21,878 Speaker 1: that said, that's it anything more, you know, you're basically 422 00:19:21,918 --> 00:19:24,198 Speaker 1: out of here, and a fan in the front road 423 00:19:24,238 --> 00:19:29,478 Speaker 1: directly behind Aaron Boone said something. The Wendells said obviously 424 00:19:29,518 --> 00:19:31,478 Speaker 1: thought it was Aaron Boone or somebody in the dugout 425 00:19:31,598 --> 00:19:33,518 Speaker 1: and immediately threw him out of the game. So Aaron 426 00:19:33,558 --> 00:19:35,878 Speaker 1: Boone got ejected from not saying anything at that point, 427 00:19:36,318 --> 00:19:39,078 Speaker 1: and from what Aaron Boon said, he was not fine 428 00:19:39,158 --> 00:19:42,278 Speaker 1: by MLB, which is a winking nod that Hunter Wendel's 429 00:19:42,278 --> 00:19:45,318 Speaker 1: step was wrong in this situation. First, Joe, I'm sure 430 00:19:45,358 --> 00:19:48,198 Speaker 1: you saw some of it. You heard about it. Give 431 00:19:48,238 --> 00:19:49,758 Speaker 1: me your take on what you first thought when you 432 00:19:49,758 --> 00:19:50,878 Speaker 1: saw something like that happen. 433 00:19:51,078 --> 00:19:53,198 Speaker 3: And the other one is check swings, balls and strikes 434 00:19:53,198 --> 00:19:54,718 Speaker 3: and check swings, those are the ways to get me. 435 00:19:54,878 --> 00:19:57,878 Speaker 3: Check swings got me more trouble than anything. Well, I 436 00:19:58,558 --> 00:20:01,758 Speaker 3: did see it, and of course I know everybody involved, 437 00:20:01,918 --> 00:20:03,478 Speaker 3: and I know Hunter well Hunter, and I was a 438 00:20:03,718 --> 00:20:06,318 Speaker 3: well he's gotten along well. But Hunter Hunter could be 439 00:20:07,198 --> 00:20:09,398 Speaker 3: kind of like that very definitive noe, that's it. And 440 00:20:09,958 --> 00:20:12,998 Speaker 3: my problem with that line is that if if an 441 00:20:13,078 --> 00:20:15,958 Speaker 3: umpire ever told me that's it, I've had enough. If 442 00:20:15,998 --> 00:20:18,358 Speaker 3: you if they threatened me like that, he said something 443 00:20:18,398 --> 00:20:20,398 Speaker 3: to the effect that you say one more word whatever, 444 00:20:20,398 --> 00:20:22,638 Speaker 3: you're out of here, something like that, then I'm out 445 00:20:22,678 --> 00:20:25,078 Speaker 3: of there. I mean, I I just where I come from. Right, 446 00:20:25,118 --> 00:20:28,438 Speaker 3: you've been You've been in Hazelton, Pennsylvania. When when you 447 00:20:28,478 --> 00:20:31,358 Speaker 3: get get kind of pushed like that, it's hard not 448 00:20:31,478 --> 00:20:34,158 Speaker 3: to push back. Man. It's like, the only thing I 449 00:20:34,158 --> 00:20:37,038 Speaker 3: can think about that was the first inning. So you 450 00:20:37,118 --> 00:20:39,798 Speaker 3: might you might just like rein it back in because 451 00:20:39,798 --> 00:20:42,238 Speaker 3: it's so early in the game. I think part of 452 00:20:42,238 --> 00:20:43,918 Speaker 3: that would be how's it been going lately, you know? 453 00:20:45,158 --> 00:20:46,838 Speaker 3: But I want an early exit here do I'm trying 454 00:20:46,838 --> 00:20:49,398 Speaker 3: to rile the boys up a little bit, maybe an 455 00:20:49,398 --> 00:20:53,038 Speaker 3: opportunity to take advantage of this situation. But whenever an 456 00:20:53,118 --> 00:20:56,078 Speaker 3: umpire just like drew the line. I don't know if 457 00:20:56,118 --> 00:20:58,918 Speaker 3: I've ever did not cross the line when it was drawn, 458 00:20:59,078 --> 00:21:01,838 Speaker 3: And in that situation, for sure, I could see with 459 00:21:01,918 --> 00:21:04,758 Speaker 3: Aaron's perspective. I mean, he didn't say anything after his 460 00:21:04,878 --> 00:21:09,358 Speaker 3: original outbursts whatever. And it's tough. It's tough when that happens. 461 00:21:09,398 --> 00:21:12,558 Speaker 3: There's this an emotional when you're the dugout in front 462 00:21:12,598 --> 00:21:14,998 Speaker 3: of your entire ball club. And the other thing you 463 00:21:15,038 --> 00:21:17,598 Speaker 3: have to understand when when something like that happens, every 464 00:21:17,678 --> 00:21:21,118 Speaker 3: set of eyeballs comes right at you. I only know 465 00:21:21,158 --> 00:21:23,158 Speaker 3: that because people have told me that, or I'll look 466 00:21:23,198 --> 00:21:26,638 Speaker 3: back after the moment's over, like everybody's staring at you. 467 00:21:27,158 --> 00:21:29,558 Speaker 3: So they're always looking to see how you're going to react, 468 00:21:29,638 --> 00:21:35,158 Speaker 3: which is important. And so I really want my group, 469 00:21:35,238 --> 00:21:39,478 Speaker 3: my players to maintain that respect for me. So even 470 00:21:39,518 --> 00:21:42,998 Speaker 3: though I don't want to get kicked out, I still 471 00:21:43,038 --> 00:21:45,078 Speaker 3: have to do what I have to do to not 472 00:21:45,638 --> 00:21:47,998 Speaker 3: lose that respect of the players, even if I have 473 00:21:48,038 --> 00:21:51,958 Speaker 3: to argue with an Umpire that maybe I do respect also, 474 00:21:52,598 --> 00:21:54,918 Speaker 3: so there's this really all those thoughts go in your 475 00:21:54,918 --> 00:21:58,118 Speaker 3: head weirdly in that moment. Last point, if I really 476 00:21:58,118 --> 00:22:02,398 Speaker 3: dig an Umpire, and I especially the veteran umpires that's 477 00:22:02,398 --> 00:22:04,838 Speaker 3: so much respect for it would get to a point 478 00:22:04,878 --> 00:22:06,438 Speaker 3: where it be kind of a tough moment where I 479 00:22:06,478 --> 00:22:09,318 Speaker 3: really needed to say or do something about it. I 480 00:22:09,358 --> 00:22:12,158 Speaker 3: would not cross the line. I had the guys that 481 00:22:12,238 --> 00:22:15,158 Speaker 3: you really feel are good at their jobs you can 482 00:22:15,238 --> 00:22:18,798 Speaker 3: communicate with, I'd only go so far. I wouldn't. I 483 00:22:18,798 --> 00:22:22,238 Speaker 3: would not go over that line. And it's something I learned, 484 00:22:22,278 --> 00:22:24,238 Speaker 3: you know, in the minor leagues. I got ejected so 485 00:22:24,358 --> 00:22:27,118 Speaker 3: often early on in my minor league career, I think 486 00:22:27,158 --> 00:22:30,078 Speaker 3: seven times in a half season in the Northwest League, 487 00:22:30,078 --> 00:22:33,238 Speaker 3: which is only seventy games. So I got better at 488 00:22:33,238 --> 00:22:36,158 Speaker 3: that as I went along. But the things, the thing 489 00:22:36,358 --> 00:22:39,198 Speaker 3: is like, these guys have a really difficult job and 490 00:22:39,198 --> 00:22:41,798 Speaker 3: don't just to the point where umpires don't sit down 491 00:22:42,118 --> 00:22:44,118 Speaker 3: for nine innings. They're standing up there the whole time. 492 00:22:44,278 --> 00:22:47,278 Speaker 3: That's not easy to do for me, just to focus 493 00:22:47,638 --> 00:22:51,118 Speaker 3: and concentrate like that. So yeah, the greater respect I 494 00:22:51,118 --> 00:22:52,678 Speaker 3: have for the Empire, the less likely I'm going to 495 00:22:52,678 --> 00:22:55,398 Speaker 3: have crossed the line. But if they do put the 496 00:22:55,478 --> 00:22:57,718 Speaker 3: line out there, I'm going to cross it almost every time. 497 00:22:58,158 --> 00:23:01,078 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the hazelt, no doubt, I'm going to go 498 00:23:01,238 --> 00:23:04,558 Speaker 1: next level on you here on what's behind that, because 499 00:23:04,638 --> 00:23:08,638 Speaker 1: I see a real bifurcation with umpires these days, the 500 00:23:08,678 --> 00:23:12,438 Speaker 1: younger ones and the veteran umpires, and increasingly the veter 501 00:23:12,518 --> 00:23:16,038 Speaker 1: umpires are the younger umpires. They have been they've basically 502 00:23:16,238 --> 00:23:18,798 Speaker 1: done their whole professional careers with the ball. 503 00:23:18,598 --> 00:23:20,118 Speaker 2: Tracking systems that are in place. 504 00:23:20,798 --> 00:23:24,838 Speaker 1: I see in umpires like Hunter wendelstet that old school 505 00:23:24,958 --> 00:23:28,598 Speaker 1: version that when you're the home played umpire, it's my game. 506 00:23:28,718 --> 00:23:29,758 Speaker 2: That's the way they think of it. 507 00:23:29,758 --> 00:23:32,998 Speaker 1: It's my game, and I am the arbitrary of the game, 508 00:23:33,078 --> 00:23:35,798 Speaker 1: not just the balls and the strikes, and he sees 509 00:23:35,838 --> 00:23:38,918 Speaker 1: it as an affront when challenged from the dugout, and 510 00:23:39,758 --> 00:23:42,438 Speaker 1: I don't see that from the younger umpires, Joe. I 511 00:23:42,478 --> 00:23:44,958 Speaker 1: think the younger umpires are more willing to say, you 512 00:23:44,958 --> 00:23:45,958 Speaker 1: know what, I miss. 513 00:23:45,758 --> 00:23:47,318 Speaker 2: It and move on. 514 00:23:47,798 --> 00:23:52,398 Speaker 1: I don't think controlling managers and players and the game 515 00:23:52,438 --> 00:23:55,078 Speaker 1: itself is being done by the younger umpires. 516 00:23:55,078 --> 00:23:57,398 Speaker 2: They've been trained totally differently. And I get it. 517 00:23:57,438 --> 00:24:00,198 Speaker 1: If you're an older veteran umpire, your Angel Hernandez, your 518 00:24:00,278 --> 00:24:03,278 Speaker 1: Hunter wendels Step, those games were in your hands, you 519 00:24:03,318 --> 00:24:05,838 Speaker 1: were in charge charged with the pace of the game 520 00:24:06,318 --> 00:24:09,918 Speaker 1: that's now done by a clock, just the way guys 521 00:24:09,958 --> 00:24:12,958 Speaker 1: comport themselves. You were in control of that, and I 522 00:24:13,038 --> 00:24:16,398 Speaker 1: don't think umpire the younger umpires today see that as 523 00:24:16,478 --> 00:24:18,638 Speaker 1: part of their jobs. I mean, obviously you're going to 524 00:24:18,718 --> 00:24:21,598 Speaker 1: have to rain somebody in if they're completely over the top. 525 00:24:21,678 --> 00:24:24,318 Speaker 1: But I think an older veteran umpire like one hundred 526 00:24:24,318 --> 00:24:27,158 Speaker 1: wind instead, that's more old school, where this is my 527 00:24:27,398 --> 00:24:30,398 Speaker 1: game and you're gonna stop it right now. I don't 528 00:24:30,398 --> 00:24:32,198 Speaker 1: think you see that from the younger umpires. 529 00:24:32,518 --> 00:24:36,238 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can't disagree with anything you just said there. 530 00:24:36,358 --> 00:24:38,398 Speaker 3: I'll just say this though, again getting back to my 531 00:24:38,518 --> 00:24:42,078 Speaker 3: argumentative component, I would more easily argue with a young 532 00:24:42,158 --> 00:24:45,878 Speaker 3: umpire because I didn't know them, you know. And I 533 00:24:46,478 --> 00:24:48,518 Speaker 3: part of not wanting to take the lineup card up 534 00:24:48,518 --> 00:24:50,918 Speaker 3: the home plate is I don't I don't want. I 535 00:24:50,918 --> 00:24:52,438 Speaker 3: didn't want to get to know the younger guys coming 536 00:24:52,438 --> 00:24:53,918 Speaker 3: into the league that well, because I knew the older 537 00:24:53,918 --> 00:24:56,118 Speaker 3: guys from being a bench coach and I was always 538 00:24:56,118 --> 00:24:58,798 Speaker 3: going up to the plate. You get to know these guys, 539 00:24:58,918 --> 00:25:01,358 Speaker 3: and it's harder. I mean, it's harder. I think, I 540 00:25:01,438 --> 00:25:03,318 Speaker 3: mean maybe that's just me. It's harder to argue with 541 00:25:03,358 --> 00:25:05,838 Speaker 3: somebody that you're knowing, you kind of like, So if 542 00:25:05,878 --> 00:25:07,678 Speaker 3: I really needed to stir it up a little bit, 543 00:25:07,838 --> 00:25:10,478 Speaker 3: I would pick a younger umpire, but that I didn't 544 00:25:10,518 --> 00:25:11,958 Speaker 3: think he was any good or I didn't like him. 545 00:25:11,998 --> 00:25:13,678 Speaker 3: I just didn't know him. So it's easier to argue. 546 00:25:13,678 --> 00:25:16,438 Speaker 3: It's just that the human element. So that's part of 547 00:25:16,478 --> 00:25:20,078 Speaker 3: it for me as a manager for several years. And 548 00:25:20,198 --> 00:25:23,078 Speaker 3: as you're talking about there regarding their mentality or the 549 00:25:23,918 --> 00:25:26,238 Speaker 3: method with which they their bedside manner, they have so 550 00:25:26,238 --> 00:25:29,398 Speaker 3: many supervisors now, I mean they're coming up legitimately with 551 00:25:29,518 --> 00:25:35,878 Speaker 3: supervisors being reviewing arguments or situations, things that the other 552 00:25:35,958 --> 00:25:37,798 Speaker 3: guys when they came up years ago did not. It 553 00:25:37,838 --> 00:25:42,358 Speaker 3: was just primarily umpire schools, right, Frankman, mental stat umpire schools. 554 00:25:42,398 --> 00:25:44,838 Speaker 3: I mean, guys went through that, which I'd really never 555 00:25:44,918 --> 00:25:48,038 Speaker 3: understood why MLB has never taken totally total charge of 556 00:25:48,238 --> 00:25:50,918 Speaker 3: the way umpires are developed, although I think it's more 557 00:25:50,998 --> 00:25:54,238 Speaker 3: along those lines today, But supervisors, and I knew a 558 00:25:54,238 --> 00:25:57,798 Speaker 3: lot of the supervisors and how they Dick Nelson was 559 00:25:57,838 --> 00:26:00,318 Speaker 3: famous for years. Dick Nelson was in charge of minor 560 00:26:00,398 --> 00:26:01,958 Speaker 3: league umpires for one hundred years. You know, I had 561 00:26:01,958 --> 00:26:05,078 Speaker 3: a great relationship and I would whenever I got tossed whatever, 562 00:26:05,078 --> 00:26:06,478 Speaker 3: I'd be able to talk to him and talk to 563 00:26:07,358 --> 00:26:09,638 Speaker 3: as to why it happened and gave him my perspective 564 00:26:09,638 --> 00:26:12,038 Speaker 3: and he would listen. So I think the supervision and 565 00:26:12,078 --> 00:26:17,038 Speaker 3: the teaching that goes with this, and then the accountability 566 00:26:18,198 --> 00:26:21,158 Speaker 3: because of technology with these young guys, yeah, it is. 567 00:26:21,358 --> 00:26:25,878 Speaker 3: They're developing a more homogenized product, a group that's more 568 00:26:25,918 --> 00:26:28,958 Speaker 3: in line. Because, as you stated, you could name all 569 00:26:28,998 --> 00:26:31,918 Speaker 3: the old dumpires. You could if you've been what around 570 00:26:31,958 --> 00:26:34,198 Speaker 3: long enough, you could almost tell what their strike zone was. 571 00:26:35,358 --> 00:26:37,798 Speaker 3: They were up, down, in or out or both. You 572 00:26:37,838 --> 00:26:39,958 Speaker 3: could tell how far you can go, if you could 573 00:26:39,998 --> 00:26:41,798 Speaker 3: go at all, if you could even say anything to 574 00:26:41,878 --> 00:26:44,438 Speaker 3: these guys or not. You knew all of that before 575 00:26:44,478 --> 00:26:47,118 Speaker 3: the game began. So that was part of the conversation, 576 00:26:47,358 --> 00:26:50,158 Speaker 3: whether or not you could talk to the guy his 577 00:26:50,198 --> 00:26:51,558 Speaker 3: strike zone is going to be, like, it's going to 578 00:26:51,598 --> 00:26:53,638 Speaker 3: be big, but don't say anything because if you do, 579 00:26:53,678 --> 00:26:55,918 Speaker 3: it's going to get worse. Things like that. That was 580 00:26:55,958 --> 00:26:58,558 Speaker 3: a part of the conversation. Today. You'll get a heat 581 00:26:58,598 --> 00:27:01,158 Speaker 3: map before the game, we'll see what a homefully dumpires 582 00:27:01,358 --> 00:27:04,718 Speaker 3: like and you could pretty much on it. He's going 583 00:27:04,798 --> 00:27:08,958 Speaker 3: to be either wide outside to right, on right, left, 584 00:27:08,998 --> 00:27:11,118 Speaker 3: on left. There's a heat map for right versus left, 585 00:27:11,158 --> 00:27:13,158 Speaker 3: left versus right, same side, and you look at the 586 00:27:13,198 --> 00:27:18,038 Speaker 3: heat maps, they're pretty solid. Man. So players and coaches 587 00:27:18,038 --> 00:27:20,078 Speaker 3: and pitchers not going into the game what this is 588 00:27:20,078 --> 00:27:22,318 Speaker 3: going to look like. And it's more homogenized than it 589 00:27:22,398 --> 00:27:22,718 Speaker 3: had been. 590 00:27:22,918 --> 00:27:24,998 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll tell you, Joe, I don't miss those days 591 00:27:25,038 --> 00:27:27,518 Speaker 1: at all when the umpires, you know, they if you 592 00:27:27,518 --> 00:27:29,438 Speaker 1: were a young player, you had a different strike zone 593 00:27:29,438 --> 00:27:33,118 Speaker 1: than a veteran player. You know, if you complained, your 594 00:27:33,118 --> 00:27:37,678 Speaker 1: strike zone got bigger. I hated the individual strike zones 595 00:27:37,678 --> 00:27:41,118 Speaker 1: from the umpires. It's so much better now. I think 596 00:27:41,158 --> 00:27:45,118 Speaker 1: the umpires, and generally again the younger ones here way 597 00:27:45,198 --> 00:27:48,838 Speaker 1: less confrontational, you know, walking away from arguments rather than 598 00:27:48,878 --> 00:27:50,598 Speaker 1: walking toward them. 599 00:27:50,638 --> 00:27:52,198 Speaker 2: You could say it's taking some of the color out 600 00:27:52,198 --> 00:27:53,438 Speaker 2: of the game. I don't miss it. 601 00:27:53,958 --> 00:27:56,038 Speaker 1: I didn't like the fact that umpires were part of 602 00:27:56,078 --> 00:27:58,718 Speaker 1: the show, and I think they blended into the scenery 603 00:27:58,758 --> 00:28:01,438 Speaker 1: a lot more. I think they're trained better, and I 604 00:28:01,438 --> 00:28:03,158 Speaker 1: love the fact that the strike zone is for the 605 00:28:03,238 --> 00:28:06,598 Speaker 1: most part homogenized, and you know, maybe someday we're going 606 00:28:06,638 --> 00:28:08,558 Speaker 1: to get to a point where there's a challenge system, 607 00:28:08,918 --> 00:28:10,718 Speaker 1: which I would be in favor of. Not a full 608 00:28:10,758 --> 00:28:14,558 Speaker 1: on robo umpire behind the plate, but the batter, pitcher, 609 00:28:14,638 --> 00:28:18,878 Speaker 1: catcher could call, say three pitches a game under review 610 00:28:19,118 --> 00:28:20,918 Speaker 1: and it's done in five seconds, it's done in the 611 00:28:20,918 --> 00:28:23,718 Speaker 1: minor leagues. I'd be in favor of that. I don't 612 00:28:23,758 --> 00:28:25,758 Speaker 1: want to get rid of these umpires and the human element, 613 00:28:26,078 --> 00:28:28,718 Speaker 1: but I do like the fact that it is more homogenized. 614 00:28:28,758 --> 00:28:32,278 Speaker 1: So usually that word means, you know, that's progress and 615 00:28:32,318 --> 00:28:35,198 Speaker 1: that's technology taking over and we're losing the human element. 616 00:28:35,238 --> 00:28:37,358 Speaker 1: But in this case, I love the fact that you 617 00:28:37,358 --> 00:28:39,358 Speaker 1: can pretty much bank on what the strike's own is 618 00:28:39,518 --> 00:28:41,358 Speaker 1: and not have to think about who the umpire is. 619 00:28:41,518 --> 00:28:43,878 Speaker 3: And I think that speaks like you just mentioned it 620 00:28:43,918 --> 00:28:46,918 Speaker 3: and I had just written it down. There's no need. 621 00:28:46,998 --> 00:28:49,118 Speaker 3: I don't think for a robo umpire. I think these 622 00:28:49,158 --> 00:28:52,038 Speaker 3: guys are getting dialed into the point now where it 623 00:28:52,118 --> 00:28:55,158 Speaker 3: is becoming you know, what to expect. This pitch is 624 00:28:55,198 --> 00:28:57,678 Speaker 3: going to be strike ball, et cetera. Although, like I said, 625 00:28:57,678 --> 00:29:00,598 Speaker 3: if you look at heat maps. There's a little advantage 626 00:29:00,638 --> 00:29:03,398 Speaker 3: to be gained from a catcher and a picture with 627 00:29:03,478 --> 00:29:04,758 Speaker 3: some kind of command. I mean, a lot of the 628 00:29:04,798 --> 00:29:08,358 Speaker 3: throwers today they really can't dial it up or dot 629 00:29:08,398 --> 00:29:10,918 Speaker 3: a corner or whatever, but there's something to be gained 630 00:29:10,918 --> 00:29:13,878 Speaker 3: regarding where to sit, like maybe with two strikes, knowing 631 00:29:13,878 --> 00:29:15,198 Speaker 3: that this guy's going to be a little bit more 632 00:29:15,198 --> 00:29:19,878 Speaker 3: liberal in that particular area than some others. So the 633 00:29:19,958 --> 00:29:23,478 Speaker 3: robo umpire I would hope never happens. Like I said, 634 00:29:23,518 --> 00:29:27,478 Speaker 3: I think the teaching method today is kind of dissuading 635 00:29:27,518 --> 00:29:29,518 Speaker 3: that to the point where maybe we just don't need this. 636 00:29:29,558 --> 00:29:33,518 Speaker 3: But like you're saying, maybe late in the game. I 637 00:29:33,558 --> 00:29:34,958 Speaker 3: have to wrap my mind around that because I've been 638 00:29:34,958 --> 00:29:37,838 Speaker 3: watching the NBA playoffs. I'm a pseudo nick fan, and 639 00:29:37,878 --> 00:29:39,638 Speaker 3: I'm watching all this stuff down at the end of 640 00:29:39,638 --> 00:29:41,998 Speaker 3: the game where there's challenging calls. I didn't know they 641 00:29:42,038 --> 00:29:44,758 Speaker 3: could do that, and it's kind of weird. It's because 642 00:29:44,758 --> 00:29:47,518 Speaker 3: there's such an arbitrary basketball you could almost call foul 643 00:29:47,838 --> 00:29:49,918 Speaker 3: on every play, and you can almost in football you 644 00:29:49,918 --> 00:29:53,078 Speaker 3: could almost call a penalty on every play. So it 645 00:29:53,158 --> 00:29:55,958 Speaker 3: kind of bothers me a little bit. But I like 646 00:29:56,038 --> 00:30:00,358 Speaker 3: the idea of umpires being umpires more autonomous because they 647 00:30:00,358 --> 00:30:03,678 Speaker 3: have become kind of like very consistent. 648 00:30:04,438 --> 00:30:06,158 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, not to pick on one hundred 649 00:30:06,158 --> 00:30:09,158 Speaker 1: Windlestead here, but that particular day he had a bad 650 00:30:09,238 --> 00:30:11,838 Speaker 1: game behind the plate. And what you said about, you know, 651 00:30:11,878 --> 00:30:14,638 Speaker 1: the particular strike zones or heat maps for umpires. You 652 00:30:14,678 --> 00:30:16,638 Speaker 1: can see with the hunter Wendells Stead when he sets 653 00:30:16,718 --> 00:30:18,718 Speaker 1: up and he sets up like most umpires on the 654 00:30:18,758 --> 00:30:22,078 Speaker 1: inside corner, whether it's a lefty or a righty hit 655 00:30:22,158 --> 00:30:23,758 Speaker 1: or he'll be on the inside corner. He's got a 656 00:30:23,798 --> 00:30:26,998 Speaker 1: blind spot on the outside corner to right handed hitters. 657 00:30:28,598 --> 00:30:32,278 Speaker 1: And he missed basically one third of his strike calls 658 00:30:32,278 --> 00:30:35,558 Speaker 1: in that game. I mean, they should have about an 659 00:30:35,638 --> 00:30:39,838 Speaker 1: eighty eight eighty nine percent correct accuracy call on balls 660 00:30:39,878 --> 00:30:42,878 Speaker 1: that are called strikes. Most pitches are obvious. So in 661 00:30:42,918 --> 00:30:46,518 Speaker 1: that game, there were forty seven pitches that he called strikes. 662 00:30:46,758 --> 00:30:49,918 Speaker 1: He was wrong on fifteen of those. It's way too 663 00:30:49,998 --> 00:30:52,358 Speaker 1: high and almost all of them were off the plate 664 00:30:52,598 --> 00:30:55,038 Speaker 1: to right handed hitters. Now what you're saying, Joe, and 665 00:30:55,118 --> 00:30:57,918 Speaker 1: I understand this. A pitcher with command and can take 666 00:30:57,958 --> 00:31:00,398 Speaker 1: advantage of that. A lot of pitchers today just don't 667 00:31:00,438 --> 00:31:02,478 Speaker 1: have the command to take advantage to get that ball 668 00:31:02,598 --> 00:31:05,358 Speaker 1: one with one with a ball outside and get that call. 669 00:31:05,478 --> 00:31:08,918 Speaker 1: But again, the older umpires to me, Joe, and the 670 00:31:08,958 --> 00:31:10,318 Speaker 1: game has moved a lot faster. 671 00:31:10,958 --> 00:31:11,198 Speaker 3: You know. 672 00:31:11,238 --> 00:31:14,078 Speaker 1: Whether it's something physical where they don't see that outside 673 00:31:14,078 --> 00:31:16,878 Speaker 1: corner as well, whether it's eyesight, I don't know, but 674 00:31:16,998 --> 00:31:19,558 Speaker 1: we saw in the postseason last year the guys who 675 00:31:19,678 --> 00:31:21,838 Speaker 1: made it to the World Series is the youngest crew 676 00:31:21,918 --> 00:31:25,158 Speaker 1: ever and we're seeing that year in and year out 677 00:31:25,238 --> 00:31:27,318 Speaker 1: now in the last few years that the younger umpires 678 00:31:27,358 --> 00:31:30,198 Speaker 1: are grading out much higher. Again, they've been on the 679 00:31:30,318 --> 00:31:33,518 Speaker 1: laser tracking system their whole careers. And again I'm not 680 00:31:33,558 --> 00:31:36,598 Speaker 1: bashing Hunter. Wendell studies a great umpire, but in that game, 681 00:31:36,798 --> 00:31:39,358 Speaker 1: I think it showed the human element that he had 682 00:31:39,398 --> 00:31:42,718 Speaker 1: a blind spot away to right handed hitters, and a 683 00:31:42,718 --> 00:31:44,078 Speaker 1: good picture can take advantage of that. 684 00:31:44,278 --> 00:31:47,198 Speaker 3: I've always thought because the empire normally it does sit 685 00:31:47,318 --> 00:31:49,718 Speaker 3: up on the inside edge of the play. He gets 686 00:31:49,718 --> 00:31:52,958 Speaker 3: inside right on right like the right handed hitter, he'll 687 00:31:52,998 --> 00:31:56,598 Speaker 3: be on the left shoulder of the catcher. So I've 688 00:31:56,598 --> 00:31:59,838 Speaker 3: always believed you're guessing on the outside edge. That's it's 689 00:31:59,958 --> 00:32:04,438 Speaker 3: the inconsistent area to rely on a consistent version of 690 00:32:04,478 --> 00:32:07,758 Speaker 3: a strike zone, whereas on the inside corner they see 691 00:32:07,758 --> 00:32:09,718 Speaker 3: it so well. I think they become very tight on 692 00:32:09,758 --> 00:32:12,838 Speaker 3: the inside corner. So I've always thought that the inside 693 00:32:12,918 --> 00:32:15,278 Speaker 3: edge you're going to miss some strikes. They are going 694 00:32:15,318 --> 00:32:17,558 Speaker 3: to be strikes that are going to be called balls 695 00:32:17,598 --> 00:32:21,198 Speaker 3: because he thinks he sees them so well. And actually 696 00:32:21,198 --> 00:32:23,798 Speaker 3: the strike zone kind of shifts. Move that little box 697 00:32:23,838 --> 00:32:26,438 Speaker 3: to the right right on right hitter pitcher. The box 698 00:32:26,438 --> 00:32:29,358 Speaker 3: shifts to the right based on where the umpire sets up. 699 00:32:29,398 --> 00:32:31,998 Speaker 3: Remember back in the day with the balloon protectors, the 700 00:32:32,318 --> 00:32:34,678 Speaker 3: umpire used to be right over the top of the catcher. 701 00:32:35,398 --> 00:32:37,638 Speaker 3: But then again they thought the low pitch was not 702 00:32:37,678 --> 00:32:39,998 Speaker 3: being called because of that. And there's all different ways. 703 00:32:39,998 --> 00:32:42,198 Speaker 3: I mean again, a foot position. I used to hate 704 00:32:42,198 --> 00:32:44,838 Speaker 3: when an umpire got his foot right outside my foot 705 00:32:44,838 --> 00:32:46,678 Speaker 3: to the point where he could block me trying to 706 00:32:46,718 --> 00:32:49,798 Speaker 3: move to block a pitch because the umpire got so close. 707 00:32:49,838 --> 00:32:51,878 Speaker 3: I hate it when an umpire put his hand on 708 00:32:51,878 --> 00:32:54,518 Speaker 3: my back. Could not stand when an umpire put his 709 00:32:54,598 --> 00:32:57,238 Speaker 3: hand on my back again, you feel restricted somehow. So 710 00:32:57,278 --> 00:32:59,758 Speaker 3: all these things I think have been cleaned up over time. 711 00:33:00,358 --> 00:33:02,918 Speaker 3: But when I said work with my catchers, I would 712 00:33:03,278 --> 00:33:06,758 Speaker 3: always ask him to be aware of the outside edge. 713 00:33:07,078 --> 00:33:09,598 Speaker 3: When he's on your inside shoulder, normally I thought it 714 00:33:09,638 --> 00:33:12,118 Speaker 3: was a more liberal strike, whereas the inner side of 715 00:33:12,158 --> 00:33:14,958 Speaker 3: the plate, the inside edge was more conservative. 716 00:33:15,118 --> 00:33:17,118 Speaker 1: You know, I'm glad you said that about the umpire 717 00:33:17,158 --> 00:33:19,438 Speaker 1: putting his hand on the catcher's back, because. 718 00:33:19,238 --> 00:33:21,798 Speaker 2: When I see that, it bothers me. I mean, would 719 00:33:21,838 --> 00:33:24,718 Speaker 2: you turn around and tell the dude, hey, take. 720 00:33:24,598 --> 00:33:26,318 Speaker 1: Your hand off my back or do you think you 721 00:33:26,318 --> 00:33:29,238 Speaker 1: know what? I can't say that because we're not going 722 00:33:29,318 --> 00:33:30,078 Speaker 1: to get any calls. 723 00:33:30,398 --> 00:33:32,398 Speaker 3: And then the other thing I'm telling you the foot 724 00:33:32,438 --> 00:33:35,038 Speaker 3: when he when he placed his foot like right outside 725 00:33:35,118 --> 00:33:37,438 Speaker 3: my left foot as an example, and the ball's thrown 726 00:33:37,518 --> 00:33:39,798 Speaker 3: down and in on that side. You go to move 727 00:33:39,878 --> 00:33:42,358 Speaker 3: and his foot blocks your movement. So that used to 728 00:33:42,398 --> 00:33:44,118 Speaker 3: be big when the Empire wanted to get really in 729 00:33:44,198 --> 00:33:46,638 Speaker 3: close like that again to see the low ball or 730 00:33:46,678 --> 00:33:49,558 Speaker 3: the ball down in a way. And that bothered me, 731 00:33:49,598 --> 00:33:51,398 Speaker 3: and that happened several times. You go to move and 732 00:33:51,398 --> 00:33:54,278 Speaker 3: then it's your fault. Nobody knows, but he would block 733 00:33:54,318 --> 00:33:56,838 Speaker 3: you out. I like, like when the Empire gives me 734 00:33:56,878 --> 00:33:58,878 Speaker 3: a little bit of room. I like a conversation with 735 00:33:58,918 --> 00:34:00,758 Speaker 3: my umpire during the game. And one of the things 736 00:34:00,798 --> 00:34:04,038 Speaker 3: I always taught my catcher is, don't ever try to 737 00:34:04,038 --> 00:34:08,078 Speaker 3: talk a umpire into a strike that was legitimately a 738 00:34:08,118 --> 00:34:09,598 Speaker 3: ball and you knew it was a ball. I said, 739 00:34:09,598 --> 00:34:12,438 Speaker 3: you're losing all credibility with this man. I always like 740 00:34:12,518 --> 00:34:15,278 Speaker 3: to if I thought he made a good call on 741 00:34:15,278 --> 00:34:16,918 Speaker 3: a pitch that I wanted, but it was a ball, 742 00:34:17,318 --> 00:34:19,598 Speaker 3: I would say, Man, on the money, good call, that 743 00:34:19,758 --> 00:34:21,958 Speaker 3: was a ball. So then I always believe that when 744 00:34:21,998 --> 00:34:24,238 Speaker 3: I wanted to pitch and I thought it was acting 745 00:34:24,318 --> 00:34:27,198 Speaker 3: like a strike for instance, obviously that he'd listened to me. 746 00:34:27,238 --> 00:34:30,038 Speaker 3: More so, there's a little give and take going on 747 00:34:30,118 --> 00:34:33,558 Speaker 3: during the course of the game conversationally. And I believe 748 00:34:33,638 --> 00:34:36,318 Speaker 3: that we're both human beings, I think, and I always 749 00:34:36,318 --> 00:34:38,518 Speaker 3: believed that the umpire wanted some honesty for me, And 750 00:34:39,398 --> 00:34:42,158 Speaker 3: there's great Dana Demutin and I had a running conversation 751 00:34:42,238 --> 00:34:45,558 Speaker 3: even in the California League. I mean, it was always important. 752 00:34:45,598 --> 00:34:47,998 Speaker 3: So that's another thing I think that's not even discussed 753 00:34:48,398 --> 00:34:51,278 Speaker 3: is the conversation between the pitcher and the empire during 754 00:34:51,278 --> 00:34:53,598 Speaker 3: the game. Regarding what is a strike and what is 755 00:34:53,638 --> 00:34:55,238 Speaker 3: the ball? I listened. I need that pitch man. This 756 00:34:55,318 --> 00:34:57,998 Speaker 3: guy guy's a sinker ball pitcher. We need the ball down. 757 00:34:58,718 --> 00:35:00,358 Speaker 3: I got to have that, you know, something to that 758 00:35:00,438 --> 00:35:02,478 Speaker 3: effect that might have been a borderline pitch and he's 759 00:35:02,478 --> 00:35:05,158 Speaker 3: calling a ball that I think is a strike. Conversation's big. 760 00:35:05,838 --> 00:35:08,518 Speaker 1: So as a catcher, you want to know your umpire. 761 00:35:08,758 --> 00:35:10,118 Speaker 1: As a manager, you don't. 762 00:35:11,558 --> 00:35:15,238 Speaker 3: Very good. That's exactly right. I did. I did enough fire, 763 00:35:15,278 --> 00:35:17,118 Speaker 3: I didn't because I just ended up arguing with them 764 00:35:17,118 --> 00:35:20,958 Speaker 3: all the time. Very good. That's really well, Well we'll 765 00:35:20,998 --> 00:35:21,518 Speaker 3: be fine. 766 00:35:21,878 --> 00:35:23,478 Speaker 2: Hey, well we get back. I'm gonna put you on 767 00:35:23,478 --> 00:35:23,918 Speaker 2: the spot. 768 00:35:24,038 --> 00:35:24,278 Speaker 3: Joe. 769 00:35:25,358 --> 00:35:27,038 Speaker 2: We lost the rock and roll legend. 770 00:35:27,318 --> 00:35:31,038 Speaker 1: And I'm guessing that Joe Madden was a big fan 771 00:35:31,078 --> 00:35:31,638 Speaker 1: of this dude. 772 00:35:31,718 --> 00:35:45,798 Speaker 2: We'll talk about that right after this Welcome back to 773 00:35:45,838 --> 00:35:47,358 Speaker 2: the Book of Joe podcasts. 774 00:35:47,398 --> 00:35:50,838 Speaker 1: And we did lose another rock and roll legend in 775 00:35:50,878 --> 00:35:53,678 Speaker 1: the past week. And I was Dickey Betts, famous guitarist 776 00:35:53,678 --> 00:35:56,078 Speaker 1: of the Allman Brothers band, one of the founding members 777 00:35:56,078 --> 00:35:58,798 Speaker 1: of that band, and I first thought of Joe Madden 778 00:35:58,798 --> 00:36:02,078 Speaker 1: because I could definitely see Joe Madden cruising the streets 779 00:36:02,118 --> 00:36:05,478 Speaker 1: of Hazelton or I don't know, Lafayette maybe with Almond 780 00:36:05,518 --> 00:36:09,558 Speaker 1: Brothers cranked up. Listen to Blue Sky or Jessica give 781 00:36:09,558 --> 00:36:11,998 Speaker 1: me your thoughts, Joe, Almond Brothers, Dicky Betts. 782 00:36:12,358 --> 00:36:16,358 Speaker 3: You cannot be more right. At Lafayette College, the Almond 783 00:36:16,398 --> 00:36:20,678 Speaker 3: Brothers were huge. I honestly I remember staying up till 784 00:36:20,678 --> 00:36:22,678 Speaker 3: five o'clock in the morning in one of my buddies 785 00:36:22,758 --> 00:36:25,758 Speaker 3: rooms and we're just banging on the on the Almond Brothers, 786 00:36:25,798 --> 00:36:28,238 Speaker 3: and that's right. Got to know who Dicky Betts was. 787 00:36:29,318 --> 00:36:32,958 Speaker 3: You know, my friends classmates were ahead of me with that, 788 00:36:33,118 --> 00:36:35,558 Speaker 3: and then I learned from them. But yeah, Jessica is 789 00:36:35,598 --> 00:36:37,478 Speaker 3: one of my all time favorite jams man. I I 790 00:36:37,958 --> 00:36:40,638 Speaker 3: just absolutely love that. You know, of course, Ramblin Man, 791 00:36:40,638 --> 00:36:43,198 Speaker 3: you can go up and down the list. They were 792 00:36:43,238 --> 00:36:49,278 Speaker 3: just that good. They were very viscerally influential for me. 793 00:36:49,638 --> 00:36:52,478 Speaker 3: And in that period of time, you know, you just 794 00:36:52,838 --> 00:36:54,358 Speaker 3: you just turn it up. You turn it up, and 795 00:36:54,398 --> 00:36:56,758 Speaker 3: you get lost in the in the sound and you 796 00:36:56,798 --> 00:36:58,918 Speaker 3: know from the very first note or two that it 797 00:36:58,958 --> 00:37:00,958 Speaker 3: is the Almond Brothers. There's no like, who is this? 798 00:37:01,318 --> 00:37:05,078 Speaker 3: You know exactly who it is. Yeah, the Almand others themselves. 799 00:37:05,118 --> 00:37:08,798 Speaker 3: I mean, wow, it was a big moment for me. 800 00:37:08,958 --> 00:37:11,678 Speaker 3: And yes, it was huge. At Lafayette College. I would 801 00:37:11,758 --> 00:37:16,198 Speaker 3: drive whether it was my old Vovo, my Thunderbird, or eventually, 802 00:37:16,918 --> 00:37:19,838 Speaker 3: I don't know what else I had after that Ford Galaxy, 803 00:37:20,398 --> 00:37:23,718 Speaker 3: but it was always blasting Man, And yeah, I was. 804 00:37:23,878 --> 00:37:25,918 Speaker 3: I was surprised. I didn't realize was that old. I 805 00:37:25,958 --> 00:37:29,038 Speaker 3: should have known that. But GOODNA miss him. Man, he 806 00:37:29,118 --> 00:37:30,678 Speaker 3: was that influentially, he was that great. 807 00:37:31,038 --> 00:37:34,198 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a great word, influential, Joe, because they pretty 808 00:37:34,278 --> 00:37:35,878 Speaker 1: much invented what we. 809 00:37:35,878 --> 00:37:37,118 Speaker 2: Now call Southern rock. 810 00:37:37,198 --> 00:37:39,758 Speaker 1: Yeah, paving the way for a lot of bands, you know, 811 00:37:40,038 --> 00:37:44,198 Speaker 1: Zzy top Fish, I mean, you name it, that distinctive sound. 812 00:37:44,238 --> 00:37:47,518 Speaker 1: And how about the fact that you mentioned is Jessica, 813 00:37:47,878 --> 00:37:50,678 Speaker 1: you could have on FM radio a seven and a 814 00:37:50,718 --> 00:37:54,478 Speaker 1: half minute song with no lyrics and be a hit. 815 00:37:55,038 --> 00:37:57,198 Speaker 1: I mean, think about that. It can't happen today. 816 00:37:57,558 --> 00:37:59,638 Speaker 3: No, that it was. I mean it's like it came 817 00:37:59,678 --> 00:38:01,398 Speaker 3: on and it was like, that's one of those songs 818 00:38:01,438 --> 00:38:02,678 Speaker 3: you left him the first time you heard it. You 819 00:38:02,678 --> 00:38:04,598 Speaker 3: didn't have to hear the second time you knew, Oh 820 00:38:04,638 --> 00:38:06,358 Speaker 3: my god, I love that, you know, I can't wait 821 00:38:06,358 --> 00:38:08,158 Speaker 3: till that comes back on, because that back then you 822 00:38:08,198 --> 00:38:09,918 Speaker 3: had to wait for it to come back on, you know, 823 00:38:09,998 --> 00:38:12,078 Speaker 3: and then or unless you had the turntable, you throw 824 00:38:12,118 --> 00:38:14,638 Speaker 3: your album on cassettes maybe, but you had to find 825 00:38:14,678 --> 00:38:16,398 Speaker 3: where it was. You got to rewind it all the time. 826 00:38:16,798 --> 00:38:19,678 Speaker 3: I said, people don't realize youngsters today. I mean getting 827 00:38:19,678 --> 00:38:21,198 Speaker 3: to the song that you liked, you had to wait 828 00:38:21,238 --> 00:38:23,918 Speaker 3: sometimes on that AM radio. It wasn't just popping up 829 00:38:23,958 --> 00:38:25,518 Speaker 3: and you just couldn't query it and throw it right 830 00:38:25,558 --> 00:38:28,678 Speaker 3: in there. So yeah, when I first moment I heard 831 00:38:28,678 --> 00:38:33,238 Speaker 3: that song, I was absolutely you had me right there, man, 832 00:38:33,718 --> 00:38:36,598 Speaker 3: And yes, that was that is kind of like for me. 833 00:38:36,718 --> 00:38:41,158 Speaker 3: Jessica ramblin Man pretty much. That is the Oemen Brothers. 834 00:38:41,478 --> 00:38:44,038 Speaker 1: Ramblin Man was pretty much his life story. Yeah, he 835 00:38:44,238 --> 00:38:46,798 Speaker 1: left home, you know, his father worked in construction and 836 00:38:46,838 --> 00:38:49,358 Speaker 1: they kind of bounced around a bit and he left 837 00:38:49,358 --> 00:38:52,798 Speaker 1: home actually to join the circus. He played in a 838 00:38:52,838 --> 00:38:56,078 Speaker 1: circus band at the age of sixteen. And as he 839 00:38:56,278 --> 00:38:59,598 Speaker 1: sang and wrote in ramblin Man, he's talking about Highway 840 00:38:59,638 --> 00:39:00,798 Speaker 1: forty one in Bradenton. 841 00:39:01,278 --> 00:39:02,358 Speaker 2: You know that area, well. 842 00:39:02,278 --> 00:39:04,758 Speaker 1: Jo, I think about every time and nine a song 843 00:39:04,798 --> 00:39:06,078 Speaker 1: about Highway forty one. 844 00:39:07,518 --> 00:39:09,638 Speaker 2: I've been stuck in traffic they're way too often. But 845 00:39:09,678 --> 00:39:11,558 Speaker 2: he did. And it's a classic. 846 00:39:11,318 --> 00:39:13,078 Speaker 3: Brother I do. I drive up and down there and 847 00:39:13,118 --> 00:39:15,758 Speaker 3: I start singing it out loud. I mean, I see 848 00:39:15,758 --> 00:39:17,758 Speaker 3: the thing is. And we've talked about this, and you're 849 00:39:17,758 --> 00:39:19,838 Speaker 3: talking about the struggle again, right, And it's such a 850 00:39:19,918 --> 00:39:25,398 Speaker 3: romantic thought to me that a guy like this did 851 00:39:25,678 --> 00:39:27,918 Speaker 3: other things. And while he's doing these other things, whether 852 00:39:27,918 --> 00:39:30,678 Speaker 3: it's working in the circus or whatever, I would bet 853 00:39:31,078 --> 00:39:33,238 Speaker 3: that Dicky bats always just wanted to be this rock 854 00:39:33,278 --> 00:39:35,598 Speaker 3: and roll guitar player, so eventually became that. How much 855 00:39:35,638 --> 00:39:37,598 Speaker 3: time did he practice, how many thoughts did he have, 856 00:39:38,078 --> 00:39:41,758 Speaker 3: how many notes did he write down, how many pickup bands, 857 00:39:41,758 --> 00:39:44,078 Speaker 3: garage bands did he work with until this finally hit 858 00:39:44,118 --> 00:39:46,958 Speaker 3: for him? And then when it does, God, the guy 859 00:39:47,038 --> 00:39:50,238 Speaker 3: knows his craft. I have so much respect for that, because, 860 00:39:50,398 --> 00:39:52,238 Speaker 3: like you and I have talked about the struggle before, 861 00:39:53,078 --> 00:39:55,998 Speaker 3: the real true artists, man, the real artists, the people 862 00:39:56,038 --> 00:39:59,318 Speaker 3: that know their stuff, not just think they know their stuff, 863 00:39:59,358 --> 00:40:01,918 Speaker 3: where stuff is presented to them and they put their 864 00:40:01,998 --> 00:40:04,358 Speaker 3: name on it. These guys I just bled that and 865 00:40:04,678 --> 00:40:07,278 Speaker 3: I got so much respect for that. There's romantic component 866 00:40:07,358 --> 00:40:10,358 Speaker 3: of that. To me, that always takes me back immediately 867 00:40:10,958 --> 00:40:14,038 Speaker 3: and perfect example when you talk about a Dicky Betts 868 00:40:14,038 --> 00:40:16,358 Speaker 3: starting in a circus and ended up being one of 869 00:40:16,358 --> 00:40:18,398 Speaker 3: the most influential guitar players ever. 870 00:40:19,278 --> 00:40:21,078 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it goes back to another one of 871 00:40:21,078 --> 00:40:24,758 Speaker 1: our favorite themes too, Joe, and that is pure intentions, right. 872 00:40:24,918 --> 00:40:27,958 Speaker 1: I mean, he wasn't by any measure a cookie cutter 873 00:40:28,038 --> 00:40:29,638 Speaker 1: guy trying to how do I get on the top 874 00:40:29,678 --> 00:40:33,798 Speaker 1: forty charts, you know, just following his instincts and his 875 00:40:33,838 --> 00:40:37,238 Speaker 1: passions and his loves and that works no matter what 876 00:40:37,278 --> 00:40:39,158 Speaker 1: you do. And we talk a lot about that with 877 00:40:39,238 --> 00:40:42,158 Speaker 1: managing as well, that you're not trying to manage by 878 00:40:42,358 --> 00:40:45,958 Speaker 1: a template. It has to be that balance between art 879 00:40:46,038 --> 00:40:50,198 Speaker 1: and science and data and gut and guys like Dicky Betts, 880 00:40:50,238 --> 00:40:52,998 Speaker 1: you know, listen, he clashed with Wayne Allman. They wound 881 00:40:53,118 --> 00:40:55,438 Speaker 1: up actually kicking him out of the band. He was 882 00:40:55,438 --> 00:40:59,678 Speaker 1: so uncompromising and what his standards were and following his 883 00:40:59,678 --> 00:41:03,318 Speaker 1: his artistic mus if you will, but always true to himself. 884 00:41:03,998 --> 00:41:06,478 Speaker 1: I think that's a lifelong lesson for all of us 885 00:41:06,518 --> 00:41:09,998 Speaker 1: that you know, you copy from others in terms of 886 00:41:10,158 --> 00:41:14,158 Speaker 1: you see what works you pay attention to where the 887 00:41:14,158 --> 00:41:17,638 Speaker 1: industry is going. But in general, Joe, you know this, 888 00:41:18,118 --> 00:41:20,278 Speaker 1: if you follow your heart, you're gonna wind up in 889 00:41:20,318 --> 00:41:21,198 Speaker 1: a good place. 890 00:41:21,158 --> 00:41:24,718 Speaker 3: One hundred percent. That's always been my advice to young coaches, managers, whatever. 891 00:41:24,838 --> 00:41:27,398 Speaker 3: But the thing is, Dicky Betts knew. You knew what 892 00:41:27,478 --> 00:41:29,158 Speaker 3: he knew. I mean, for lack of a better way of 893 00:41:29,198 --> 00:41:32,358 Speaker 3: saying it. Too many times, I think today we only 894 00:41:32,358 --> 00:41:34,558 Speaker 3: know what people tell us to know or something that's 895 00:41:34,558 --> 00:41:36,878 Speaker 3: been handed to us to know. But you don't really 896 00:41:36,958 --> 00:41:41,238 Speaker 3: know what you know because you've never really struggle, lived 897 00:41:41,238 --> 00:41:45,958 Speaker 3: through it, paycheck to paycheck, How'm gonna do this whatever, 898 00:41:46,118 --> 00:41:50,718 Speaker 3: whatever those difficult moments were back then, it's just different. Man. 899 00:41:51,558 --> 00:41:53,598 Speaker 3: The phrase, and I've talked about some people to some 900 00:41:53,638 --> 00:41:57,758 Speaker 3: people about this recently, actually is that you got to 901 00:41:57,998 --> 00:42:01,438 Speaker 3: know the whatever you're involved in, you got to know 902 00:42:01,958 --> 00:42:05,198 Speaker 3: exactly what we're talking about, have lived that, made mistakes 903 00:42:05,198 --> 00:42:08,438 Speaker 3: with it, got your butt kicked with it. We're told 904 00:42:08,478 --> 00:42:10,198 Speaker 3: you're not not good enough for it, I mean all 905 00:42:10,198 --> 00:42:12,438 Speaker 3: the different things, because you have to fight back, fight back, 906 00:42:12,478 --> 00:42:15,718 Speaker 3: fight back. Eventually you got it, you got it, and 907 00:42:15,758 --> 00:42:18,278 Speaker 3: then you're not going to be dissuade it. You're this, No, 908 00:42:18,918 --> 00:42:22,798 Speaker 3: I believe this. I oftentimes I'll tell people if I'm 909 00:42:22,798 --> 00:42:26,998 Speaker 3: really not committed or totally devoted to a thought, I'm 910 00:42:27,118 --> 00:42:30,198 Speaker 3: very malleable. Yeah, absolutely, I'm gonna listen and eventually we'll 911 00:42:30,198 --> 00:42:33,078 Speaker 3: come to the conclusion. But if i'm really hard fast 912 00:42:33,078 --> 00:42:35,478 Speaker 3: that I've been through this before and I really like this, 913 00:42:35,558 --> 00:42:38,438 Speaker 3: and I know what I'm talking about right here, you're 914 00:42:38,478 --> 00:42:40,318 Speaker 3: not gonna You're not gonna push me in a direction. 915 00:42:40,478 --> 00:42:43,158 Speaker 3: So I think I think that's the best way to 916 00:42:43,198 --> 00:42:45,678 Speaker 3: be have this valuableness about you that if you're really 917 00:42:45,678 --> 00:42:47,998 Speaker 3: not sure about a situation, yeah, find about as much 918 00:42:47,998 --> 00:42:50,838 Speaker 3: information as you can. But once you know what you know, 919 00:42:51,478 --> 00:42:54,638 Speaker 3: put it out there man, in your inimitable style, whatever 920 00:42:54,678 --> 00:42:58,278 Speaker 3: that might be. Put it out there because that authenticity 921 00:42:58,358 --> 00:43:01,798 Speaker 3: plays and people will follow you follow you because of that. 922 00:43:01,798 --> 00:43:04,598 Speaker 1: That's a great way to put it, because it's a 923 00:43:04,598 --> 00:43:07,358 Speaker 1: great legacy to have for someone like Dicky Betts or anybody, 924 00:43:07,438 --> 00:43:08,998 Speaker 1: is that you're one of a kind. 925 00:43:09,198 --> 00:43:12,398 Speaker 2: It's who you are, you're not you're not compared to others. 926 00:43:12,838 --> 00:43:13,958 Speaker 2: They pave their own path. 927 00:43:13,958 --> 00:43:17,638 Speaker 1: The Allman Brothers didn't, especially Dicky Betts, so very well 928 00:43:17,678 --> 00:43:23,358 Speaker 1: said about that inimitable uniqueness, authenticity. Well said, it's time 929 00:43:23,398 --> 00:43:25,998 Speaker 1: now for the Joe Madden last out of the game. 930 00:43:26,038 --> 00:43:27,158 Speaker 2: Here, our closer. 931 00:43:27,238 --> 00:43:28,918 Speaker 1: Joe always brings us to the end of the game 932 00:43:28,958 --> 00:43:32,958 Speaker 1: here with words of wisdom, and they're always somehow appropriate 933 00:43:33,358 --> 00:43:34,398 Speaker 1: to the subject matter. 934 00:43:34,718 --> 00:43:36,238 Speaker 2: So now they put the pressure on you. 935 00:43:36,318 --> 00:43:36,518 Speaker 3: Joe. 936 00:43:36,598 --> 00:43:37,958 Speaker 2: You did you got the ball? 937 00:43:38,398 --> 00:43:41,478 Speaker 3: Well, you know one of the things I even I 938 00:43:41,558 --> 00:43:44,558 Speaker 3: might have mentioned this. I'll text Brian Butterfield on occasion 939 00:43:44,598 --> 00:43:47,798 Speaker 3: when former coach, great, great coach, and I would text 940 00:43:47,838 --> 00:43:49,478 Speaker 3: him in the morning and I'll say, butter I'm too 941 00:43:49,558 --> 00:43:51,918 Speaker 3: quick to him, too fast, and he'll laugh and he'll 942 00:43:51,958 --> 00:43:53,878 Speaker 3: send something back to send scripture back to me to 943 00:43:53,878 --> 00:43:56,638 Speaker 3: help me slow down. But I was looking this up 944 00:43:56,678 --> 00:43:59,598 Speaker 3: today and guy by name of Pico a Er and 945 00:43:59,638 --> 00:44:02,358 Speaker 3: this is this is a Buddhist kind of a concept, 946 00:44:02,398 --> 00:44:04,598 Speaker 3: the principle, which I kind of a little bit right now. 947 00:44:04,598 --> 00:44:07,078 Speaker 3: I think it's awesome. But he came up with this thought, 948 00:44:07,078 --> 00:44:10,558 Speaker 3: and I think again it applies to just arguing too 949 00:44:10,638 --> 00:44:14,598 Speaker 3: much or whatever again, trying to be too fast. But 950 00:44:14,758 --> 00:44:18,078 Speaker 3: in the age of speed, I began to think nothing 951 00:44:18,438 --> 00:44:22,678 Speaker 3: could be more invigorating than going slow. In an age 952 00:44:22,798 --> 00:44:28,198 Speaker 3: of distraction, nothing can feel more luxurious than paying attention. 953 00:44:29,078 --> 00:44:31,638 Speaker 3: I've always talked about being a good listener and slowing 954 00:44:31,638 --> 00:44:34,878 Speaker 3: it down, So when I saw this today, it just 955 00:44:34,998 --> 00:44:39,038 Speaker 3: really resonated with me. So I went with that today. 956 00:44:39,598 --> 00:44:42,358 Speaker 3: Slow things down a little with folks, and really pay 957 00:44:42,398 --> 00:44:44,918 Speaker 3: attention to whomever you're speaking with and don't walk over 958 00:44:44,998 --> 00:44:48,438 Speaker 3: their conversations. You might actually learn something. Oh. 959 00:44:48,478 --> 00:44:50,758 Speaker 1: I love that thought, and we definitely need to be 960 00:44:50,838 --> 00:44:53,838 Speaker 1: reminded of that on a daily basis, because it does 961 00:44:53,878 --> 00:44:56,598 Speaker 1: seem like life gets faster and faster. We live in 962 00:44:56,638 --> 00:45:00,678 Speaker 1: such a microwave world. We need to rediscover the joys 963 00:45:00,678 --> 00:45:03,518 Speaker 1: of slow baked ovens, you know, taking the time and 964 00:45:03,558 --> 00:45:07,518 Speaker 1: craft things, craft ideas, craft your work, and not be 965 00:45:07,598 --> 00:45:10,678 Speaker 1: in such a hurry. That's a great reminder any day 966 00:45:10,718 --> 00:45:11,118 Speaker 1: of the week. 967 00:45:11,398 --> 00:45:13,438 Speaker 3: Thanks man, I'm really into it. I am. 968 00:45:13,558 --> 00:45:15,558 Speaker 2: Great job, Joe. We'll see you next time. 969 00:45:15,398 --> 00:45:16,798 Speaker 3: You get to your brothers. See you soon. 970 00:45:26,078 --> 00:45:29,318 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 971 00:45:29,518 --> 00:45:34,518 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 972 00:45:34,638 --> 00:45:36,398 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.