WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 253 0:00:01.730 --> 0:00:02.910 Call zone media. 0:00:03.350 --> 0:00:03.990 Hey, everybody. 0:00:04.210 --> 0:00:06.100 Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let you know 0:00:06.380 --> 0:00:09.860 this is a compilation episode. So every episode of the 0:00:09.900 --> 0:00:13.680 week that just happened is here in one convenient and 0:00:13.740 --> 0:00:17.000 with somewhat less ads package for you to listen to 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.330 in a long stretch if you want. If you've been 0:00:19.370 --> 0:00:21.370 listening to the episodes every day this week, there's going 0:00:21.390 --> 0:00:23.430 to be nothing new here for you, but you can 0:00:23.450 --> 0:00:24.410 make your own decisions. 0:00:29.120 --> 0:00:32.200 We live now in a world defined by the near 0:00:32.260 --> 0:00:38.460 total victory of the capitalist class. Their wildest fantasies are 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.950 inflicted upon us all. They burn the earth we live 0:00:42.090 --> 0:00:45.569 on and poison the air we breathe to create their 0:00:45.650 --> 0:00:50.310 hideous mechanical god. While the human personification of the housing 0:00:50.370 --> 0:00:55.200 bubble orders wars and ethnic cleansings from his garish golden palace. 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:01.570 An age in which the words the genocide cannot unreasonably 0:01:01.630 --> 0:01:06.250 be answered with the question which one demands an explanation. 0:01:08.030 --> 0:01:13.390 And here I have a partial one. The capitalists, the bourgeoisie, 0:01:14.069 --> 0:01:17.209 the people who make their money by owning things and 0:01:17.290 --> 0:01:21.400 stealing the labor of those who work for them have 0:01:21.420 --> 0:01:26.000 been allowed to rule the world. To ask how this 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:30.970 came to be is to ask another question. How did 0:01:31.010 --> 0:01:35.640 the greatest enemy of the international workers' movement come to 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:41.080 be so totally destroyed? This is It Could Happen Here. 0:01:42.360 --> 0:01:47.880 I'm your host, Mio Wong, and that, today, is our task. 0:01:48.380 --> 0:01:52.430 To chart, at least in part, the decline and fall 0:01:52.850 --> 0:01:57.270 of the international workers' movement. It is easy to forget 0:01:57.670 --> 0:02:00.210 that the workers' movement once seemed to be the inevitable 0:02:00.270 --> 0:02:06.169 protagonists of history. As the anthropologist David Graeber remarks, the 0:02:06.210 --> 0:02:09.240 ruling class in Chicago in the late 1800s were so 0:02:09.340 --> 0:02:12.640 sure of the coming revolution, they built their mansions on 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:17.580 a road to the nearest military base. That revolution, obviously, 0:02:18.300 --> 0:02:25.160 never came. So what, precisely, went so wrong? To answer 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:30.630 this question, We follow the unraveling of two threads that 0:02:30.669 --> 0:02:35.049 together wove the fabric of the workers' movement. The first 0:02:35.130 --> 0:02:39.450 thread is that of assembly. Before anything could be accomplished, 0:02:40.070 --> 0:02:43.550 it was necessary to create the image of, and then 0:02:43.610 --> 0:02:49.090 the organized reality of, the collective worker. It was necessary 0:02:49.150 --> 0:02:52.929 to assemble the movement, to gather the working class together 0:02:52.990 --> 0:02:57.020 from among its thousand nations and thousand tongues, and forge 0:02:57.040 --> 0:03:00.600 an identity and then a movement that could change the 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:06.790 state of things. This alone was a Herculean task. As 0:03:06.810 --> 0:03:10.829 the journal Endnotes points out, class was perhaps the least 0:03:10.889 --> 0:03:15.790 immediate form of collective identification. Sure, class could be argued 0:03:15.830 --> 0:03:19.990 to exist on an objective sociological level, defined by one's 0:03:20.030 --> 0:03:24.070 relationship to the means of production. But it does not 0:03:24.150 --> 0:03:28.590 cause people... to speak the same language. In this way, 0:03:29.230 --> 0:03:34.730 it was easier to adopt other identities, nationality, race, gender, 0:03:35.570 --> 0:03:40.040 even more localized ethnic backgrounds, than it was to believe 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:44.060 oneself to be part of a single united working class. 0:03:45.460 --> 0:03:49.020 And so this became a great task of the workers' movement, 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:54.560 to create an identity capable of displacing or at least joining, 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:59.460 other forms of identification, which would then allow collective action. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:05.100 But once this identity existed, the movement still had to act. 0:04:05.940 --> 0:04:10.680 And here arose the second problem. What was the workers' 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:14.960 movement to do once it actually assembled? And this is 0:04:15.020 --> 0:04:18.159 no simple question. It is, in fact, one of the 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.790 questions by which the movement came to be divided against itself. 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:26.630 And once that division happened, it became easier to attack 0:04:26.670 --> 0:04:29.610 the material basis of the formation of the movement itself, 0:04:30.430 --> 0:04:34.390 to destroy the conditions that made the first phase of 0:04:34.450 --> 0:04:38.050 assembling the collective worker possible. And that is how they 0:04:38.110 --> 0:04:42.000 did it, how the ruling class maintained its power even 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.200 with vast swaths of the world nominally arrayed against them. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:50.620 They first helped the workers' movement divide itself and began 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:55.110 to exterminate each other, And then, in the world that 0:04:55.170 --> 0:05:00.430 conflict created, they, and the process and unfolding of capitalist 0:05:00.450 --> 0:05:04.630 history itself, began to unravel the movement at its core, 0:05:05.150 --> 0:05:08.630 to destroy its ability to form the collective identity necessary 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.779 to even make those mistakes in the first place. So 0:05:12.820 --> 0:05:18.680 let us begin then, perhaps counterintuitively, with action, for it 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.020 was here that the workers' movement first began to unravel. 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:27.640 This unraveling began, perhaps paradoxically, in what seemed to be 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:30.820 the moment of their great triumph. By the end of 0:05:30.870 --> 0:05:36.349 the 1800s, the movement had, in certain places, accomplished the 0:05:36.390 --> 0:05:41.710 seemingly impossible. They had, in fact, managed to assemble, in 0:05:41.770 --> 0:05:46.290 various forms, a great collective worker. It was an age 0:05:46.310 --> 0:05:52.310 of confidence, full of the certainty of inevitable, historically ordained victory. 0:05:53.250 --> 0:05:57.729 of a sense that history inexorably unfolded towards the victory 0:05:57.790 --> 0:06:01.770 of the working class. Even in the wake of its 0:06:01.830 --> 0:06:05.510 defeat in the crushing of the Paris Commune, it had 0:06:05.550 --> 0:06:09.630 assembled veritable states within a state in places like Germany, 0:06:10.380 --> 0:06:14.420 with the great social democratic parties and emerging unions, built 0:06:14.480 --> 0:06:19.680 a massive network of cooperative mutual aid. These institutions seemed 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.760 to be the shell of the new world being birthed 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:25.960 in the ashes of the old. And that world seemed 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:29.770 to hold great promise. It was a world in which 0:06:29.850 --> 0:06:34.909 workers administered the schools and daycares and welfare programs themselves, 0:06:35.810 --> 0:06:40.470 in which they made decisions collectively and democratically. But the 0:06:40.510 --> 0:06:46.980 movement quickly faced a series of questions of what fundamentally 0:06:47.779 --> 0:06:52.370 it was going to be. That question Who should actually 0:06:52.440 --> 0:06:57.210 control the means of production? And moreover, what does control 0:06:57.310 --> 0:07:01.810 actually mean would haunt the movement for its entire history? 0:07:03.210 --> 0:07:06.659 This question, as we have somewhat already stated, was really 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:12.060 two questions. The first, who should legally and socially own 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.320 the means of production? Which is to say the tools, 0:07:15.380 --> 0:07:20.690 the factories, everything used to produce things. And thus, who 0:07:20.710 --> 0:07:23.810 should be able to divide the results of that production? 0:07:25.050 --> 0:07:28.690 Should the capitalist own the factories and divide its proceeds 0:07:28.710 --> 0:07:31.890 how he sees fit? Should the state own the factory 0:07:32.210 --> 0:07:36.960 and do likewise? Should the workers own the factory directly? 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:43.760 Should ownership itself be abolished? This is the classical form 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.080 of what was known in the 1800s as the social question. 0:07:47.900 --> 0:07:50.840 It is the conflict that is passed down through the 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:56.280 generations as the great conflict between capitalism and socialism. The 0:07:56.360 --> 0:08:01.080 question of who would own the means of production. But 0:08:01.100 --> 0:08:04.750 there was always another conflict lurking just beneath the surface. 0:08:05.690 --> 0:08:09.850 How would production actually be organized? Who was making the 0:08:09.890 --> 0:08:12.910 decisions about how a paper mill is run? Are those 0:08:12.950 --> 0:08:16.650 decisions made by a boss? or realistically a series of bosses, 0:08:16.830 --> 0:08:19.730 but we are operating here in a series of abstractions. 0:08:20.870 --> 0:08:23.890 Is it a boss who answers to the capitalist owner 0:08:23.930 --> 0:08:27.350 of the company? Is it a different boss who answers 0:08:27.410 --> 0:08:33.780 to the state? Would workers make decisions collectively? And if so, how? 0:08:34.700 --> 0:08:37.599 Would they elect their own bosses? Would they vote on 0:08:37.620 --> 0:08:42.120 their decisions together? Would they begin to form consensus about 0:08:42.179 --> 0:08:46.480 what should be done and how? This question is significantly 0:08:46.530 --> 0:08:50.260 less explored, but is perhaps just as crucial as the first. 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:55.199 It is not hard to tell why this question is ignored. 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:01.640 Liberal democratic capitalists, fascists, social democrats, and Bolsheviks alike would 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:07.290 come to the same conclusion. One man rule in the factory. 0:09:08.130 --> 0:09:11.130 The boss tells you what to do, and you shut 0:09:11.190 --> 0:09:15.900 up and listen. This was no mere rhetoric. The social 0:09:15.940 --> 0:09:19.559 democratic parties went to war with their own bases, ripping 0:09:19.620 --> 0:09:23.740 decision-making power on the Schottflur itself away from their unions, 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:28.820 and attempting to de-skill those workers, giving that power to 0:09:28.900 --> 0:09:31.730 managers in the name of efficiency and better building a 0:09:31.790 --> 0:09:36.450 collective worker. Endnotes has an account of the German Metalworkers 0:09:36.550 --> 0:09:40.819 Union doing this precisely to their own metalworkers. but it 0:09:40.890 --> 0:09:45.640 was a broad and general process. The Bolsheviks, who had 0:09:45.740 --> 0:09:49.219 once come to power under the slogan, and I cannot 0:09:49.280 --> 0:09:53.750 emphasize this enough, quote, all power to the Soviets, that 0:09:53.809 --> 0:09:58.310 is to say, all power to the workers' councils, would, 0:09:58.929 --> 0:10:05.099 one year after their reformation, be singing a rather different tune. Here, 0:10:05.650 --> 0:10:08.520 as I have quoted before in this show, is one 0:10:08.540 --> 0:10:12.740 with Vladimir Lenin, writing in Pravda a few months after 0:10:12.780 --> 0:10:16.960 the October Revolution, in a piece called The Immediate Tasks 0:10:17.020 --> 0:10:21.580 of the Soviet Government. Quote, Unquestioning submission to a single 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:26.350 will is absolutely necessary for the success of labor processes 0:10:26.390 --> 0:10:31.290 that are based on large-scale machine industry. Today, the revolution 0:10:31.350 --> 0:10:35.250 demands in the interest of socialism that the masses unquestioningly 0:10:35.370 --> 0:10:38.290 obey the single will of the leaders of the labor process. 0:10:39.450 --> 0:10:43.330 Quote-unquote Soviet rule in the factories, then, would be the 0:10:43.390 --> 0:10:48.239 same as capitalist, fascist, or social democratic rule. It would 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:53.400 be unquestioning submission to a single will of the leaders 0:10:53.420 --> 0:10:59.000 of the labor process. Thus, the nominally socialist state itself 0:10:59.620 --> 0:11:05.010 would come to be comprised of a nightmare combination of forwardism, dictatorship, 0:11:05.730 --> 0:11:10.090 and bureaucracy. These decisions in the shop floor had social 0:11:10.130 --> 0:11:16.370 consequences as well. Bureaucracy and dictatorship would characterize all aspects 0:11:16.929 --> 0:11:21.990 of life in such societies. The welfare state, whether implemented 0:11:22.250 --> 0:11:25.270 by the Soviets or the Social Democrats, would be carried 0:11:25.330 --> 0:11:28.790 out not by the democratic organization of workers, but by 0:11:28.809 --> 0:11:34.640 the centralized bureaucratic state. The bureaucratic welfare state, as the 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:37.740 anthropologist David Graeber points out in his book The Utopia 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:44.140 of Rules, was perhaps first implemented by arch-conservative Otto von 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:48.160 Bismarck as a very explicit way to buy off the 0:11:48.200 --> 0:11:53.000 working class. Bismarck himself said of his efforts, quote, My 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.060 idea was to bribe the working class, or shall I say, 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:59.150 to win them over, to regard the state as a 0:11:59.210 --> 0:12:03.890 social institution existing for their sake and interested in their welfare. 0:12:03.910 --> 0:12:08.570 This bureaucracy, the state that Bismarck produced in order to 0:12:08.690 --> 0:12:14.370 crush the workers' movement, increasingly became synonymous with socialism itself. 0:12:15.429 --> 0:12:19.230 Marx had infamously foretold, that it would be the bourgeoisie 0:12:19.410 --> 0:12:24.610 who produced their own gravediggers. In reality, it was the workers' 0:12:24.670 --> 0:12:28.520 movement that worked tirelessly to produce their own destruction. The 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:32.179 war of one-man rule in the factory, the clash between 0:12:32.240 --> 0:12:35.640 democracy and dictatorship on the shop floor, would become a 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:39.059 key element of destroying the identity of the class itself. 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.000 And it is to this identity that we need now turn. 0:12:45.230 --> 0:12:50.120 What is a worker? What was the workers' movement itself? This, 0:12:50.740 --> 0:13:04.610 after the break. So let us now turn to the 0:13:04.670 --> 0:13:10.630 mythical collective worker. This was the workers' movement's interpretation of 0:13:10.670 --> 0:13:16.100 what Marx described as the class for itself. For Marx, 0:13:16.700 --> 0:13:22.179 the class existed, so to speak, in two forms. In itself, 0:13:23.100 --> 0:13:26.280 which is to say that there were, objectively in the world, 0:13:26.940 --> 0:13:30.800 a class of people whose survival was dependent on selling 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.470 their own labor. That was the class in itself. But 0:13:35.500 --> 0:13:38.550 to become the class for itself, that class would have 0:13:38.590 --> 0:13:42.729 to realize this. It would have to create an identity. 0:13:43.410 --> 0:13:45.490 Although Marx would never have put it in this terms, 0:13:45.510 --> 0:13:48.230 as Endnooth points out, It would have to create a 0:13:48.270 --> 0:13:53.070 class that was capable of recognizing that it was, in fact, 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:58.680 a class, and then begin to act in its own interests, which, 0:13:58.980 --> 0:14:04.200 for Marx, although increasingly not for his successors, was to 0:14:04.260 --> 0:14:08.710 abolish the class system itself. But what did this identity, 0:14:09.170 --> 0:14:13.390 once it came to be forged, actually look like? From 0:14:13.470 --> 0:14:18.280 the journal I'd notes, quote, Supporting workers' claims to respectability 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:23.260 was a vision of their destiny, with five tenets. 1. 0:14:23.260 --> 0:14:28.380 Workers were building a new world with their own hands. 2. 0:14:28.380 --> 0:14:31.450 In this new world, workers were the only social group 0:14:31.470 --> 0:14:35.790 that was expanding, whereas all other groups were contracting, including 0:14:35.810 --> 0:14:40.070 the bourgeoisie. 3. Workers were not only becoming the majority 0:14:40.090 --> 0:14:43.490 of the population, they were also becoming a compact mass. 0:14:44.270 --> 0:14:47.890 The collective worker, who was being drilled in the factory 0:14:47.970 --> 0:14:52.050 to act in concert with the machines. 4. They were 0:14:52.090 --> 0:14:55.030 thus the only group capable of managing the new world 0:14:55.070 --> 0:14:59.270 in accordance with its innermost logic. Neither a hierarchy of 0:14:59.390 --> 0:15:04.530 order-givers and order-takers, nor the irrationality of market fluctuations, but 0:15:04.630 --> 0:15:11.110 rather an even more finely-grained division of labor. 5. Workers 0:15:11.150 --> 0:15:14.610 were proving this vision to be true, since the class 0:15:14.650 --> 0:15:18.660 was realizing— what it was in a conquest of power, 0:15:19.620 --> 0:15:22.990 the achievement of which would make it possible to abolish 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:27.729 class society and thus bring man's prehistory to a close. 0:15:29.350 --> 0:15:32.910 These beliefs were at the core of the new identity 0:15:32.970 --> 0:15:37.090 of the collective worker, a worker being forged every day 0:15:37.270 --> 0:15:41.850 in the factories, drilled to work together by their constant 0:15:42.270 --> 0:15:45.850 labor on the assembly line. They were the builders of 0:15:45.890 --> 0:15:50.240 the new world, and they were its inheritors. But this identity, 0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:54.820 and the beliefs underlying it, just as all others, had 0:15:54.860 --> 0:15:59.720 to be constructed, and it had to be assiduously maintained. 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:05.090 If the underlying assumptions beneath it proved to be untrue 0:16:05.110 --> 0:16:10.090 or were challenged by other revelations, everything would begin to 0:16:10.130 --> 0:16:13.680 fall apart. and even during its opening phases during the 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:18.600 nominal triumph of the movement. That identity was already being undermined. 0:16:19.340 --> 0:16:23.960 From Endnotes again, quote, Socialists and communists did not see 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.660 that it was only insofar as workers had a hand 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:30.280 in determining how production took place that they were able 0:16:30.340 --> 0:16:32.960 to identify with their work as what defined who they 0:16:33.020 --> 0:16:38.060 really were. Once that right and its corresponding experience disappeared, 0:16:38.860 --> 0:16:43.750 so did the workers' identity. Here, we see two crucial 0:16:43.830 --> 0:16:49.190 elements of this identity threatened simultaneously. Workers in a workplace 0:16:49.290 --> 0:16:53.510 need to be able to control and make decisions in 0:16:53.550 --> 0:16:58.190 their workplace. And secondly, on an even more basic level, 0:16:59.130 --> 0:17:05.450 there had to be large-scale workplaces to begin with. The workers' movement, 0:17:06.490 --> 0:17:10.260 although with the assistance of the capitalists, was, by the 0:17:10.280 --> 0:17:13.600 midpoint of the 20th century, well on their way towards 0:17:13.660 --> 0:17:19.060 extinguishing the ability of workers to have control over their workplaces. 0:17:20.090 --> 0:17:24.189 And the capitalist class had its sights on the second element, 0:17:24.869 --> 0:17:29.910 there being a large-scale collective workplace at all. And yet, 0:17:30.170 --> 0:17:35.750 the identity of the collective worker faced other problems. There were, 0:17:36.330 --> 0:17:41.680 in fact, other identities. And these identities, in some cases, 0:17:42.580 --> 0:17:46.350 proved to be more real than that of the collective worker. 0:17:46.369 --> 0:17:51.470 As Endnotes and eventually even the most assiduous Marxists were 0:17:51.550 --> 0:17:56.290 forced to acknowledge, the collective worker, though it should not 0:17:56.330 --> 0:18:02.850 inherently have been, came to be a quote-unquote respectable man. 0:18:03.869 --> 0:18:07.200 And that he was a man, despite the attempts, both 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.110 nominal and real, of the workers' movement to fight for 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:13.450 the rights of women and the rights of people of 0:18:13.510 --> 0:18:19.590 other genders, stood until the workers' movement's death. This, obviously, 0:18:20.330 --> 0:18:25.590 is a problem. I need not mention, obviously, what percentage 0:18:25.630 --> 0:18:29.850 of the population is not, in fact, male. But there 0:18:29.910 --> 0:18:34.340 is another crisis here, one which the workers' movement would 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.860 fail to engage in, or rather, its attempts to engage 0:18:38.920 --> 0:18:44.020 here were insufficient to the necessary task. Now, in the 0:18:44.100 --> 0:18:49.180 old Marxist schema, there was production, the production of things. 0:18:50.200 --> 0:18:53.340 Under the capitalist context, the production of commodities to be 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:59.760 sold on the market. But there was also reproduction, social reproduction. 0:19:00.820 --> 0:19:04.310 This was was another form of labor in which workers 0:19:04.510 --> 0:19:09.430 are produced and maintained in extremely literal senses of the term. 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.159 We are speaking here of having and raising children, of 0:19:14.260 --> 0:19:19.820 making food and washing clothes, of cleaning and doing dishes, 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:25.030 of the forms of labor that create and sustain life. 0:19:25.869 --> 0:19:29.230 And we are speaking of forms of labor that the 0:19:29.290 --> 0:19:33.810 male collective worker broadly describes to be somewhat crude, did 0:19:33.869 --> 0:19:37.720 not give a shit about. It was able to not 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.540 give a shit about it because it could assume that 0:19:41.580 --> 0:19:46.090 that labor would be done by someone else, by classes 0:19:46.150 --> 0:19:49.230 and genders of people who were excluded from the collective worker, 0:19:49.770 --> 0:19:54.220 or in into it only selectively. For there are, to 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:58.100 take the name of a movement, no wages for housework. 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.840 This form of production, this form of labor, this social 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:07.840 reproduction that makes life and the world possible, that is 0:20:08.020 --> 0:20:12.780 as much a core of the production and reproduction of capital, 0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:17.920 as the production of commodities itself, was never remunerated as such. 0:20:19.330 --> 0:20:22.990 This was as true in socialist period China, where women 0:20:23.050 --> 0:20:26.290 were not given work points for the domestic labor they 0:20:26.310 --> 0:20:29.570 did at home, as it was in the capitalist United States, 0:20:30.010 --> 0:20:33.050 where women were likewise not paid for the domestic labor 0:20:33.350 --> 0:20:36.650 that they did at home. These tasks were primarily done, 0:20:37.550 --> 0:20:42.090 of course, by women. And this was a sphere into 0:20:42.150 --> 0:20:46.149 which the capitalists would make a series of attacks by 0:20:46.190 --> 0:20:51.260 relying on the inattention and ability to divide the class 0:20:52.080 --> 0:20:56.460 that were twin characteristics of the sphere of domestic reproduction. 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:02.720 When neoliberalism came, it came with Reagan-era anti-feminism and homophobia. 0:21:03.540 --> 0:21:07.070 It came with the one-child policy in China. It came, 0:21:07.369 --> 0:21:12.139 in other words... with massive expansions of the control of 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:16.439 the bourgeoisie into the process of domestic reproduction. And there 0:21:16.460 --> 0:21:21.320 were other problems, of course. The process of domestic reproduction 0:21:22.240 --> 0:21:27.709 does not produce, for capital, an unmarked worker. What do 0:21:27.750 --> 0:21:33.570 I mean by unmarked? To take a non-specific example, I, unfortunately, 0:21:33.790 --> 0:21:37.149 do not simply get to be a worker. I am 0:21:37.390 --> 0:21:41.790 a An Asian trans woman with all of the associated 0:21:41.850 --> 0:21:46.210 violences that those identities imply in a world such as this. 0:21:47.290 --> 0:21:50.909 And this too was a work of production. Just as 0:21:50.970 --> 0:21:55.550 the workers' movement had to assiduously maintain its identity as 0:21:55.590 --> 0:22:01.800 the worker, so other sectors assiduously worked to produce women 0:22:02.760 --> 0:22:08.020 through constant disciplining violence. the totality of the social processes 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:12.760 at play, were also busy producing race, even being allowed 0:22:12.820 --> 0:22:18.320 to access the proletariat itself, being able to reach the 0:22:18.359 --> 0:22:24.400 status of an exploited wage laborer and not a debt peon, 0:22:24.619 --> 0:22:29.800 a sharecropper, or a slave, or someone simply exterminated altogether. 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:35.359 This was the process of the production of race. It 0:22:35.440 --> 0:22:40.060 too complicated the simple collective worker, for even joining the 0:22:40.100 --> 0:22:46.149 exploited working class itself became a privilege. The suffering of 0:22:46.230 --> 0:22:49.850 the mere white proletarian was freedom to someone who had 0:22:49.869 --> 0:22:55.310 been enslaved. And in these distinctions, in these gradations of violence, 0:22:56.770 --> 0:23:04.140 in the structural and systemic racism of societies across the world, here, 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:09.460 The constituent elements of the collective worker had other interests. 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.560 White workers in the US, instead of attempting to abolish 0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:19.250 their class, could reap material rewards by working with their 0:23:19.290 --> 0:23:24.169 employers to maintain segregation. So too could workers reap the 0:23:24.210 --> 0:23:29.350 rewards of nationalism. For there were, at least to some extent, 0:23:30.430 --> 0:23:36.490 real benefits to be found in imperialism and settler colonialism. Indeed, 0:23:36.950 --> 0:23:40.280 many working class theorists in the 1800s in the US, 0:23:41.460 --> 0:23:44.340 a time in which the contradictions between class and settler 0:23:44.420 --> 0:23:48.419 identity were perhaps at their most stark, believed that the 0:23:48.460 --> 0:23:51.879 class problems of Europe could be solved in America by 0:23:51.940 --> 0:23:55.350 simply continuing to steal land from indigenous people and giving 0:23:55.390 --> 0:24:00.250 it to workers. This violence would be replicated by the 0:24:00.310 --> 0:24:05.190 socialist states of various stripes. from the Indonesian conquest of 0:24:05.230 --> 0:24:09.810 West Papua under Sukarno, to the settler colonial occupations of 0:24:09.869 --> 0:24:14.540 Tibet and Xinjiang, to, and I did once attempt to 0:24:14.580 --> 0:24:16.760 write a list of all of these and simply could 0:24:16.820 --> 0:24:20.780 not list all of them, the participation of socialist parties 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:25.239 and their unions in effectively every act of colonialism that 0:24:25.320 --> 0:24:29.639 Europe has ever done. There were good factory jobs in 0:24:29.700 --> 0:24:33.760 building the bombs that fell over Vietnam. replete with union 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:38.580 benefits and healthcare. Just as the social democratic parties of 0:24:38.600 --> 0:24:44.330 the 1910s had succumbed to nationalism and backed their respective 0:24:44.369 --> 0:24:49.090 countries in slaughtering each other in World War I, so 0:24:49.150 --> 0:24:52.369 too would workers back their nations in a path of 0:24:52.490 --> 0:24:57.419 untrammeled butchery leading right to Bosnia. The workers of the 0:24:57.480 --> 0:25:13.960 world were slaughtering each other. And yet another question would 0:25:13.980 --> 0:25:19.220 come to haunt the movement. Would these workers even remain workers? 0:25:20.580 --> 0:25:24.580 It began, as we have discussed ad nauseum, to distribute 0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:31.729 production across massive supply lines, using massive containerized ships to 0:25:31.770 --> 0:25:34.950 produce parts in one country and ship those parts to another, 0:25:35.950 --> 0:25:40.659 pitting workers of every country against each other. in a 0:25:40.780 --> 0:25:44.920 fight for a rapidly decreasing number of jobs. The great 0:25:45.020 --> 0:25:48.280 urban factories that had been at the core of the 0:25:48.340 --> 0:25:52.160 formation of the workers' movement's identity and ability to reproduce 0:25:52.200 --> 0:25:59.410 itself were likewise replaced by smaller, decentralized rural factories built 0:25:59.490 --> 0:26:02.630 further from each other to make it more and more 0:26:02.690 --> 0:26:07.350 difficult for any kind of collective identity to emerge. Worse still, 0:26:07.970 --> 0:26:13.010 the shift to massive supply chains was accompanied by the 0:26:13.070 --> 0:26:16.629 transformation of large parts of the working class into contractors 0:26:16.690 --> 0:26:21.050 or small business owners, lodged in various positions up and 0:26:21.090 --> 0:26:24.609 down the supply chain. The supply chain would still be 0:26:24.650 --> 0:26:29.710 controlled by massive corporations, but crucially, it would no longer 0:26:29.930 --> 0:26:34.730 own the various stages. Instead, portions of what were once 0:26:34.820 --> 0:26:41.010 workers would become the nominal owners tiny shops that made 0:26:41.230 --> 0:26:45.710 one part of a process that would eventually become a 0:26:46.609 --> 0:26:53.540 larger product. Every step meticulously and rigorously controlled by a corporation, 0:26:54.200 --> 0:26:59.520 but not owned by them. In this way, Nike, as 0:26:59.640 --> 0:27:02.530 Anna Singh points out in her famous work, Supply Chains 0:27:02.570 --> 0:27:07.030 and the Human Condition, does not really actually produce shoes. 0:27:07.730 --> 0:27:11.629 It simply buys them by setting up a massive production 0:27:12.070 --> 0:27:15.189 process across a sprawling supply chain, each of which is 0:27:15.270 --> 0:27:19.230 run by nominally independent companies that are forced to act 0:27:20.050 --> 0:27:25.690 as contractors. This is offered up as freedom, as encouragement 0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:29.199 of workers to abandon their identity as a collective worker 0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:33.619 and become business owners themselves. This shift would have a 0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:37.179 massive impact on both the ability of the worker to 0:27:37.340 --> 0:27:41.560 form a collective identity, and also on the possibility of 0:27:41.600 --> 0:27:45.280 struggle itself. For this shift would displace the site of 0:27:45.320 --> 0:27:50.639 struggle from shop floors owned directly by corporations themselves to 0:27:50.680 --> 0:27:54.219 shop floors owned by petty producers who would once simply 0:27:54.290 --> 0:27:58.790 have been workers, thus neatly dividing the working class against itself, 0:27:59.869 --> 0:28:04.130 while denying these new nominal small business owners the capital 0:28:04.190 --> 0:28:08.129 necessary to even accede to the demands of their workers themselves. 0:28:08.950 --> 0:28:12.470 The old class basis of social democracy and the core 0:28:12.510 --> 0:28:15.350 of the old workers' movement was thus shattered in a 0:28:15.410 --> 0:28:19.409 single stroke. The combination of the freedom of movement of 0:28:19.470 --> 0:28:24.280 capital and the unfreedom of movement of labor, as we 0:28:24.300 --> 0:28:29.100 have seen so horrifically in the deportation ethnic cleansing sweeping 0:28:29.140 --> 0:28:34.580 the United States, alongside the class-shattering effects of supply chain 0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:40.300 management and the transformation of the working class. into managers themselves, 0:28:40.960 --> 0:28:45.410 fundamentally shifted the terrain of global class struggle. They would 0:28:45.450 --> 0:28:50.430 in time become the emergence of the service economy. They 0:28:50.450 --> 0:28:54.870 would herald the collapse of the industrial proletariat, the mass 0:28:54.930 --> 0:28:59.600 expulsion of workers from the labor process altogether. In a word, 0:29:00.340 --> 0:29:06.060 the conditions of modernity. But the effect was the same. 0:29:06.820 --> 0:29:10.680 Where once at least some workers were able to claim 0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:15.330 their part of the identity of the collective worker. Now, 0:29:16.150 --> 0:29:19.710 we face the near total atomization of most of the 0:29:19.750 --> 0:29:23.590 world's population. And yet, for all of the bourgeoisie's power, 0:29:24.370 --> 0:29:28.240 for all that it appeared that their victory was final, 0:29:28.860 --> 0:29:33.100 that history was over, and that liberal democratic capitalism had 0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:37.200 triumphed over the world forever, on the very day that 0:29:37.300 --> 0:29:41.680 NAFTA The crowning achievement. of the bourgeoisie in North America, 0:29:41.760 --> 0:29:47.200 came into effect, something else happened. For to misquote a 0:29:47.240 --> 0:29:51.410 Langston Hughes poem, in the 1990s, it was not Lenin 0:29:51.810 --> 0:29:55.910 who walked across the world. It was Zapata. And so, 0:29:56.490 --> 0:29:59.980 to borrow the words of the great poet, Zapata walked 0:30:00.020 --> 0:30:04.450 around the world. Black, brown, and white receive him. Language 0:30:04.490 --> 0:30:08.710 is no barrier. The strangest tongues believe him. Zapata walks 0:30:08.770 --> 0:30:12.890 around the world. The sun sets like a scar between 0:30:12.910 --> 0:30:17.280 the darkness and the dawn. There rises a red star. 0:30:18.700 --> 0:30:20.820 This is Ikarapanheep. 0:30:33.560 --> 0:30:36.140 At the moment, there's a great deal of discussion about 0:30:36.240 --> 0:30:41.450 alternative currencies, specifically cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and Ethereum. But there 0:30:41.570 --> 0:30:46.290 is another form of alternative currency, one that is largely overlooked. 0:30:46.750 --> 0:30:50.790 I'm talking about local currencies, money that's created and distributed 0:30:50.850 --> 0:30:54.550 by a local community. Back in the 19th century, banks 0:30:54.590 --> 0:30:58.060 in America often printed their own currency backed by gold 0:30:58.120 --> 0:31:01.700 and silver, and the U.S. Treasury was not involved. The 0:31:01.720 --> 0:31:05.860 practice started back in pre-revolutionary times when the British did 0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:09.060 not mint enough silver and copper coins for the colonies. 0:31:09.500 --> 0:31:12.900 To keep the local economies going, banks printed up paper 0:31:12.940 --> 0:31:16.130 bills to be used for goods and services and to 0:31:16.210 --> 0:31:20.610 pay back debts. After the American Revolution, in the 1800s, 0:31:20.690 --> 0:31:23.570 commercial banks in the U.S. began to issue their own 0:31:23.790 --> 0:31:27.260 local money in exchange for gold deposits. The dollar bills 0:31:27.360 --> 0:31:30.280 printed by the banks did not travel far since they 0:31:30.300 --> 0:31:34.160 could only be redeemed at those same local banks. Trouble 0:31:34.220 --> 0:31:37.420 arose during the Civil War, when the federal government began 0:31:37.440 --> 0:31:41.860 to print its own dollar bills. Those initial dollars, called greenbacks, 0:31:42.260 --> 0:31:45.850 became a common target for counterfeiters. And thus, in the 0:31:45.880 --> 0:31:49.890 years just after the Civil War, it's estimated that one-third 0:31:49.930 --> 0:31:54.180 of paper money circulating in the U.S. was counterfeit. The 0:31:54.220 --> 0:31:57.660 chaos created by so much phony money in the U.S. 0:31:58.090 --> 0:32:01.690 led to the creation of the Secret Service. Before they 0:32:01.750 --> 0:32:05.510 protected the president, Secret Service agents' first order of business 0:32:05.550 --> 0:32:09.610 was protecting the American money supply. Then came the Federal 0:32:09.630 --> 0:32:14.760 Reserve Act of 1913. That legislation changed the whole monetary 0:32:14.820 --> 0:32:18.520 picture when it created centralized banking in the United States. 0:32:19.080 --> 0:32:20.900 That same act also made the U.S. 0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:21.380 Treasury. 0:32:21.670 --> 0:32:25.690 the sole legal provider of dollar bills. With its passage, 0:32:25.790 --> 0:32:29.270 local banks stopped printing their own money. There were no 0:32:29.330 --> 0:32:33.970 more local currencies. The question we consider today is, what 0:32:34.030 --> 0:32:37.730 if we went back to that old model of local currencies? 0:32:38.490 --> 0:32:41.370 It's totally possible, and it's not illegal, as long as 0:32:41.490 --> 0:32:45.470 the money you print isn't dollar bills. Most importantly, this 0:32:45.570 --> 0:32:49.070 movement is already happening. Right now, there are communities all 0:32:49.110 --> 0:32:52.170 across the country that print their own money. And this 0:32:52.210 --> 0:32:54.630 keeps more of their money in the hands of the 0:32:54.710 --> 0:32:58.970 citizens of that community. So, would you like to learn 0:32:58.990 --> 0:33:01.540 how to print your own money? Not only is it 0:33:01.600 --> 0:33:04.940 legal to make your own money, it's surprisingly easy. And 0:33:04.980 --> 0:33:08.340 there are multiple ways to do it. For instance, in 0:33:08.340 --> 0:33:11.790 1989 in Great Barrington, Massachusetts, the owner of a restaurant 0:33:11.810 --> 0:33:16.170 called The Deli needed capital to finance a relocation. And 0:33:16.230 --> 0:33:20.440 so he issued deli dollars. For customers who traded $ 8 0:33:19.980 --> 0:33:24.100 of American cash, they received $ 10 deli dollars, which could 0:33:24.140 --> 0:33:27.900 be used at the new location to buy $ 10 worth 0:33:27.980 --> 0:33:32.100 of deli food. The deli dollars were essentially a gift certificate. 0:33:32.860 --> 0:33:35.510 Over in Ithaca, New York, a man named Paul Glover 0:33:35.900 --> 0:33:39.990 offered local folks paper notes called hours. They were worth 0:33:40.070 --> 0:33:43.230 the average hourly wage in their small town, which at 0:33:43.250 --> 0:33:46.690 the time was $ 10. 00. Folks in Ithaca could trade those 0:33:46.730 --> 0:33:50.170 paper notes for goods and services in the community. In 0:33:50.290 --> 0:33:53.130 both cases, paper notes were printed up and the new 0:33:53.210 --> 0:33:56.230 money had a specific value in terms of the U.S. 0:33:56.300 --> 0:33:56.650 Dollar. 0:33:57.280 --> 0:34:00.460 You can do the same thing. Design some paper notes, 0:34:00.700 --> 0:34:03.660 print them up. Once you make the physical cash, you 0:34:03.700 --> 0:34:07.180 invite people to exchange dollar bills for your new notes. 0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:11.710 And then folks can trade your new money for goods, services, debts, 0:34:12.170 --> 0:34:15.660 all the same things that you can do with dollar bills. Now, 0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:18.080 it does work better if you can get a local 0:34:18.140 --> 0:34:20.700 bank to help out with the exchange of U.S. cash 0:34:20.760 --> 0:34:23.320 for your new money. If the bank is willing to 0:34:23.540 --> 0:34:27.020 act as the exchange point for the real U.S. treasury-backed 0:34:27.080 --> 0:34:30.460 currency for your new money, it helps your local currency 0:34:30.520 --> 0:34:33.220 to earn trust in the community and for you to 0:34:33.390 --> 0:34:36.810 handle the accounting. That's how easy it is to start 0:34:36.850 --> 0:34:39.470 printing your own money. It feels like this should be illegal, 0:34:39.570 --> 0:34:42.629 but again, it's totally legal to make your own dollar bills. 0:34:43.090 --> 0:34:46.450 as long as what you print up isn't mistaken for U.S. 0:34:46.489 --> 0:34:46.910 Dollars. 0:34:47.570 --> 0:34:51.160 That's what keeps your new money from being considered counterfeit cash. 0:34:52.000 --> 0:34:55.500 As an investigative journalist and podcast host, I've long been 0:34:55.600 --> 0:34:59.239 curious about the idea of making your own money. So, 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:01.740 doing what I do best, I tracked down an expert, 0:35:01.860 --> 0:35:04.910 a person whose job it is to administer a local currency, 0:35:05.239 --> 0:35:08.370 and asked him everything you'd want to know about printing 0:35:08.390 --> 0:35:12.170 your own money. The benefits, the challenges, the practical legalities. 0:35:12.290 --> 0:35:15.650 And I asked about the financial freedom that comes from 0:35:15.750 --> 0:35:19.010 creating a local currency. We'll get into all of that 0:35:19.239 --> 0:35:23.020 in this episode. I'm Zarin Burnett from the podcast Ridiculous 0:35:23.060 --> 0:35:26.520 Crime and Very Special Episodes, and I'm the guest host 0:35:26.540 --> 0:35:30.239 for today's episode of It Could Happen Here, How to 0:35:30.320 --> 0:35:36.910 Print Your Own Money, the Case for Local Currencies. The 0:35:36.969 --> 0:35:40.060 idea of local currencies has always intrigued me. You see, 0:35:40.140 --> 0:35:43.860 back in 2010, in my hometown of Davis, California, a 0:35:43.910 --> 0:35:47.030 guy named Nick Berry created what were called Davis Dollars. 0:35:47.530 --> 0:35:50.590 They were a local currency meant to benefit the economy 0:35:50.670 --> 0:35:53.770 of the small college town. Berry's goal was to create 0:35:53.790 --> 0:35:56.649 a way for the community to have greater control over 0:35:56.770 --> 0:35:59.609 how money flowed in and out of the town's economy. 0:36:00.160 --> 0:36:03.259 Davis Dollars promised to keep more money in the hands 0:36:03.300 --> 0:36:07.580 of its citizens and small business owners. The idea was well-intended. 0:36:08.070 --> 0:36:11.609 But the adoption of the alternative paper currency was not 0:36:11.650 --> 0:36:13.009 what you would call robust. 0:36:13.590 --> 0:36:16.670 Yeah, it was, you know, and I won't say a 0:36:16.730 --> 0:36:18.830 big deal. I mean, it's in the local paper a 0:36:18.890 --> 0:36:22.149 couple of times. So it got good play. I don't 0:36:22.190 --> 0:36:25.160 know if the TV stations in Sacramento did a piece 0:36:25.260 --> 0:36:28.060 on it. They probably did do a piece or two. 0:36:28.440 --> 0:36:30.859 If somebody got a hold of them, they probably didn't 0:36:30.900 --> 0:36:33.719 find it on their own. But yeah, the rollout was, 0:36:34.060 --> 0:36:36.460 you know, I think most people knew about it. 0:36:37.460 --> 0:36:40.990 That's Bob Dunning. You could call him the voice of Davis. 0:36:41.450 --> 0:36:44.030 For 54 years, he was a columnist for the Davis 0:36:44.070 --> 0:36:47.670 Enterprise newspaper. As such, he reported on what all was 0:36:47.750 --> 0:36:51.310 newsworthy in our sleepy college town. And now, keeping with 0:36:51.350 --> 0:36:54.089 the times, Dunning has his own newsletter in which he 0:36:54.140 --> 0:36:57.600 continues to comment on what he's lovingly dubbed the People's 0:36:57.640 --> 0:37:02.060 Republic of Davis. As the respected chronicler of our town, naturally, 0:37:02.180 --> 0:37:05.770 Dunning has some thoughts about Davis Dollars. although he can't 0:37:05.810 --> 0:37:08.140 remember ever writing about the alternative currency. 0:37:08.719 --> 0:37:09.640 Not unless they paid me. 0:37:09.660 --> 0:37:16.260 You know, I don't think I did. I may have 0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:21.049 made passing reference, like, well, I better pull out my 0:37:21.070 --> 0:37:25.469 Davis dollars and go buy a snow cone at the 0:37:25.670 --> 0:37:30.080 Little League game or something. So only in passing reference 0:37:30.100 --> 0:37:31.299 because I like the alliteration. 0:37:32.690 --> 0:37:35.820 When asked if he remembers ever spending one or if 0:37:35.860 --> 0:37:39.340 he ever saw an actual Davis dollar, Dunning recalled. 0:37:40.239 --> 0:37:46.360 Oh man, making a Christmas stocking. I don't think I 0:37:46.360 --> 0:37:47.279 actually saw one. 0:37:48.780 --> 0:37:52.150 While Davis dollars may have failed to capture the imagination 0:37:52.170 --> 0:37:55.390 of the townsfolk and students of Davis, this had less 0:37:55.410 --> 0:37:58.190 to do with the promise of a local currency and 0:37:58.230 --> 0:38:01.420 more to do with the timing. Davis Dollars was launched 0:38:01.460 --> 0:38:04.380 in 2010. At that same time, the world was still 0:38:04.530 --> 0:38:07.469 mired in the economic downturn of the financial meltdown of 0:38:07.469 --> 0:38:12.010 2008 and 2009, which meant folks weren't looking for novel 0:38:12.110 --> 0:38:14.810 new ways to spend money. They were looking for ways 0:38:14.870 --> 0:38:18.270 to save the money they still had. Basically, it was 0:38:18.290 --> 0:38:20.730 a rough time to launch a new form of money. 0:38:21.330 --> 0:38:21.770 Absolutely. 0:38:21.790 --> 0:38:23.390 It's the worst time to do anything. 0:38:24.070 --> 0:38:25.609 We hear it with COVID now. 0:38:26.350 --> 0:38:28.090 Everything changed with COVID, and it did. 0:38:29.440 --> 0:38:32.259 Despite its poor timing, Dunning does agree that, as an 0:38:32.300 --> 0:38:35.620 alternative currency, Davis dollars... Sounds like a good idea. 0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:40.100 Sounds like a clever idea. But so many small businesses 0:38:40.120 --> 0:38:46.240 are on such a margin. So I think that hurt 0:38:46.300 --> 0:38:49.590 it a little bit. And so carrying a Davis dollar 0:38:49.630 --> 0:38:53.870 that you could only spend in downtown Davis, you couldn't 0:38:53.890 --> 0:38:57.610 go anyplace else with it. And even some merchants were... 0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:00.900 reluctant to be part of the program, I think it 0:39:00.960 --> 0:39:01.960 was ultimately doomed. 0:39:03.760 --> 0:39:06.680 The failure of Davis dollars to win over the people 0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:09.300 is less of a critique of the potential of local 0:39:09.380 --> 0:39:13.799 currencies and instead a real world example of the challenges 0:39:13.860 --> 0:39:16.460 a community faces when they decide to make. 0:39:16.330 --> 0:39:16.910 Their own money. 0:39:16.930 --> 0:39:20.750 If you plan to launch an alternative currency, timing and 0:39:20.790 --> 0:39:24.290 practicality are key. It needs to serve a real need. 0:39:24.690 --> 0:39:29.550 It can't just be theoretically attractive. To investigate a far 0:39:29.610 --> 0:39:33.300 more significant real-world example of a local currency, we spoke 0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:34.580 with Peter LaRochelle. 0:39:35.380 --> 0:39:38.980 So I work at the Schumacher Center. We're a non-profit 0:39:39.200 --> 0:39:45.290 think-and-do tank based out of Egremont, Massachusetts. So my primary 0:39:45.590 --> 0:39:49.150 responsibility with the Schumacher Center is to administer our local 0:39:49.210 --> 0:39:50.130 currency program. 0:39:50.830 --> 0:39:53.230 To walk us through the hows and whys of printing 0:39:53.270 --> 0:39:56.549 your own money, Peter LaRochelle is here to discuss the 0:39:56.590 --> 0:40:00.029 vast potential and the practical realities of making your own money. 0:40:00.570 --> 0:40:03.069 Who better to explain the value of printing your own 0:40:03.110 --> 0:40:06.050 money than someone whose job it is to do just that? 0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:09.299 The local currency he administers is called. 0:40:09.219 --> 0:40:13.120 Berkshires, which is an on-the-ground example of a local currency 0:40:13.200 --> 0:40:15.860 right here in the Berkshire region that the Schumacher Center 0:40:15.880 --> 0:40:16.500 helped found. 0:40:17.140 --> 0:40:21.000 For the tourist-driven economy of the Berkshires region of western Massachusetts, 0:40:21.420 --> 0:40:24.000 a local currency was a savvy way to keep more 0:40:24.020 --> 0:40:26.780 of their economic power in the area rather than seeing 0:40:26.840 --> 0:40:29.940 money flow in and then quickly flow right back out. 0:40:30.580 --> 0:40:34.340 The Berkshires program was started back in 2006, and 20 0:40:34.340 --> 0:40:37.509 years later, it's still going strong. The credit for that 0:40:37.570 --> 0:40:40.690 belongs to the Schumacher Center for a New Economics, which 0:40:40.730 --> 0:40:44.530 was founded by E.F. Schumacher back in 1980. The think 0:40:44.670 --> 0:40:48.049 and do tank, as Peter LaRochelle called it, advocates for 0:40:48.170 --> 0:40:50.990 a new form of economics. It's right there in the name. 0:40:51.610 --> 0:40:54.670 Its founder, E.F. Schumacher, believed in something he called, quote, 0:40:55.050 --> 0:41:00.030 an economy of permanence. According to the Schumacher Center's website, quote, 0:41:00.610 --> 0:41:04.010 in today's global economy, national currencies have had the effect 0:41:04.110 --> 0:41:07.640 of centralizing ownership of wealth, and of widening the gap 0:41:07.660 --> 0:41:11.120 between rich and poor, all the while undermining local communities, 0:41:11.580 --> 0:41:16.950 devastating indigenous peoples, and polluting the environment. Standing in opposition 0:41:16.989 --> 0:41:20.009 to this global trend is the Schumacher Center. And a 0:41:20.070 --> 0:41:23.390 key tool to bring more economic power and independence to 0:41:23.430 --> 0:41:28.990 communities is a local currency. As their website argues, Decentralized 0:41:29.090 --> 0:41:33.230 regional currencies are an important counterforce working to redistribute wealth 0:41:33.270 --> 0:41:37.880 more broadly while supporting unique regional identities, cultures, and communities. 0:41:38.840 --> 0:41:40.359 Back to Peter LaRochelle. 0:41:41.000 --> 0:41:44.300 I think people want to feel like they have a 0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:47.540 say in the systems that dictate their lives. All of 0:41:47.600 --> 0:41:50.680 the Schumacher Center's projects that they've helped found and they 0:41:50.700 --> 0:41:55.320 support are democratic, people-based projects that are run by non-profits 0:41:55.500 --> 0:41:58.780 that are members of the community that run these projects, 0:41:59.680 --> 0:42:03.359 whether it's local currencies or community land trusts or any 0:42:03.430 --> 0:42:06.770 other project. The idea of really is that people should 0:42:06.790 --> 0:42:08.390 be able to have a say in the communities they 0:42:08.430 --> 0:42:08.690 live in. 0:42:09.320 --> 0:42:13.160 I know this may sound like some weird libertarian crypto nonsense, 0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:16.260 but as we'll explain, it is a totally different thing. 0:42:16.760 --> 0:42:19.700 And to that point, Peter LaRochelle would like to assure 0:42:19.820 --> 0:42:23.740 you that the Schumacher Center is very much a capitalist idea. 0:42:23.760 --> 0:42:28.210 I think the way Berkshires is structured should reflect capitalism 0:42:28.310 --> 0:42:32.390 at its best. We absolutely believe in for-profit enterprise capitalism. 0:42:32.620 --> 0:42:35.560 private ownership of businesses. And we believe that when it's 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:37.460 done right, that's what makes a community thrive. 0:42:48.730 --> 0:42:52.589 What the Berkshires program seeks to disrupt is the concentration 0:42:52.680 --> 0:42:55.560 of wealth. The trouble with centralized wealth is that it's 0:42:55.620 --> 0:42:58.980 typically controlled by people with no connection to a local community. 0:42:59.530 --> 0:43:02.270 That's why the Berkshires program acts as a bulwark against 0:43:02.310 --> 0:43:04.590 the conglomeration of businesses that. 0:43:04.810 --> 0:43:06.989 Only speak to the values of shareholders who want to 0:43:07.030 --> 0:43:10.430 see more and more and more profits over time. 0:43:10.489 --> 0:43:14.009 Local currency is a tool created to minimize the outsized 0:43:14.130 --> 0:43:18.930 power of billionaires, private equity and stockholder-focused banking interests. Because 0:43:18.969 --> 0:43:21.950 quite simply put, their monetary interests. 0:43:21.670 --> 0:43:24.320 Are often what sucks the life out of communities. 0:43:25.250 --> 0:43:28.810 In stark contrast to that dynamic, a local currency becomes 0:43:28.910 --> 0:43:31.670 a means for a community to tend to their own 0:43:31.810 --> 0:43:34.680 economic garden, so to speak. And that's why, as an 0:43:34.719 --> 0:43:38.980 alternative currency, it's meant to work in conjunction with the U.S. Treasury, 0:43:39.400 --> 0:43:42.779 not as a means to replace it. Or, as Peter 0:43:42.820 --> 0:43:43.819 LaRochelle puts it. 0:43:44.340 --> 0:43:48.779 Businesses are taking Berkshires the same way they would regular U.S. dollars, 0:43:48.860 --> 0:43:51.250 and they do it to make a profit. So I 0:43:51.270 --> 0:43:55.609 don't think there's anything so dissimilar about Berkshires compared to 0:43:55.930 --> 0:43:58.950 regular capitalist systems. Other than that, we're prioritizing the little 0:43:58.969 --> 0:44:04.529 guys and individual communities and really a thriving capitalist business 0:44:04.570 --> 0:44:09.239 scene on your main streets and business corridors that are 0:44:09.680 --> 0:44:13.700 supported by a ton of different people and small businesses 0:44:13.719 --> 0:44:16.040 that fill in all the niche needs in their communities. 0:44:17.260 --> 0:44:20.420 The Schumacher Center defines a local currency as. 0:44:20.900 --> 0:44:24.660 An umbrella term for... any sort of currency that is 0:44:25.180 --> 0:44:30.930 place-based and intended to build a more sustainable or resilient 0:44:31.030 --> 0:44:34.810 local economy. So those are two key aspects to it. 0:44:35.090 --> 0:44:38.270 And I can think of examples that make this distinction clear. 0:44:38.290 --> 0:44:41.680 For example, a currency might be place-based, but if it's 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:44.719 not intended to build a sustainable local economy, we don't 0:44:44.760 --> 0:44:45.860 call it a local currency. 0:44:46.810 --> 0:44:50.650 Ultimately, this is what separates a local currency from, say, 0:44:50.750 --> 0:44:54.720 a cryptocurrency, which technically is another form of alternative currency. 0:44:55.400 --> 0:44:59.740 As Peter LaRochelle explains, this distinction was made clear during. 0:45:00.160 --> 0:45:05.960 The crypto craze of the early 2020s, one such cryptocurrency 0:45:06.000 --> 0:45:10.210 was called MiamiCoin. It was place-based in that when people. 0:45:10.010 --> 0:45:11.430 Mined the MiamiCoin. 0:45:11.989 --> 0:45:15.520 Some percentage of the value that was created went to 0:45:15.560 --> 0:45:18.600 a wallet owned by the city of Miami. So in 0:45:18.640 --> 0:45:21.100 a way, it produced wealth for the city of Miami. 0:45:21.140 --> 0:45:22.140 It's place-based. 0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:23.480 It's in the name MiamiCoin. 0:45:23.969 --> 0:45:27.350 But it's certainly not about creating a sustainable or resilient 0:45:27.390 --> 0:45:28.130 local economy. 0:45:28.430 --> 0:45:29.550 It was speculative. 0:45:29.630 --> 0:45:32.450 It didn't really even represent a real currency in that 0:45:32.489 --> 0:45:36.270 it couldn't be used to purchase goods or services within 0:45:36.290 --> 0:45:38.780 Miami or within any other region. 0:45:39.280 --> 0:45:40.759 It was purely speculative money. 0:45:41.640 --> 0:45:44.500 Another form of alternative currency, one that is quite different 0:45:44.520 --> 0:45:48.120 from crypto, is the far older concept of scrip, or 0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:51.700 company dollars. For example, in coal country, there used to 0:45:51.719 --> 0:45:54.219 be company towns, and for their local money, they had 0:45:54.260 --> 0:45:56.880 something called scrip. It was a form of currency that 0:45:56.980 --> 0:45:59.520 coal workers and their families could use to buy things 0:45:59.600 --> 0:46:04.040 from the company's store, which, as Peter LaRochelle points out, that's. 0:46:04.420 --> 0:46:07.480 A place-based currency, but it is not about building a 0:46:07.520 --> 0:46:11.210 sustainable community or community economy. We would never refer to 0:46:11.250 --> 0:46:13.350 that kind of thing as a local currency, and certainly 0:46:13.390 --> 0:46:15.390 we would never try to model a system after that. 0:46:16.060 --> 0:46:19.239 Conversely, what the Berkshires program is designed to do is 0:46:19.280 --> 0:46:22.700 to give their community more control of their local economics. 0:46:23.160 --> 0:46:25.780 You see, a Berkshire is seen as a form of power, 0:46:26.080 --> 0:46:28.440 handing the power of a dollar back to the people 0:46:28.880 --> 0:46:31.440 rather than handing that power over to the banks. 0:46:32.680 --> 0:46:35.759 Well, what comes to mind when I think of money 0:46:35.820 --> 0:46:39.149 having power is the ability for money to create more money. 0:46:39.900 --> 0:46:44.580 where you take your money and you store it in. 0:46:43.620 --> 0:46:46.530 Some investment account off in the middle of nowhere. 0:46:46.870 --> 0:46:50.049 And once you generate enough money, you can just keep 0:46:50.090 --> 0:46:53.890 generating more and more and more. Berkshires does not work 0:46:53.950 --> 0:46:57.340 like that. Berkshires is power. It's power on an individual 0:46:57.380 --> 0:47:00.319 level to shape your community. So money, the power in 0:47:00.360 --> 0:47:04.080 money is not about who you can influence or how 0:47:04.120 --> 0:47:06.819 much wealth you can generate for your own personal gain. 0:47:07.440 --> 0:47:10.500 The power behind Berkshires is more about where you're spending 0:47:10.540 --> 0:47:13.450 your money and what kind of money you're spending. How 0:47:13.489 --> 0:47:15.210 does that impact the people around you? 0:47:15.250 --> 0:47:16.530 How does that impact your community? 0:47:17.010 --> 0:47:21.630 And that's, in a way, something that feels lost in 0:47:21.670 --> 0:47:25.470 traditional currency. People don't think twice about where it goes, 0:47:26.010 --> 0:47:28.700 where it came from, or who it's supporting. 0:47:29.540 --> 0:47:33.100 Whereas with Berkshires, their local currency makes that same power 0:47:33.140 --> 0:47:36.620 of money manifest and highly visible for the local community. 0:47:36.930 --> 0:47:39.310 They know where their money is going and what good 0:47:39.350 --> 0:47:40.890 it's doing for their community. 0:47:41.330 --> 0:47:44.040 Berkshires are place-based and they bring it back to those 0:47:44.219 --> 0:47:47.899 values of supporting a local economy and local resources for 0:47:47.960 --> 0:47:51.239 local needs. So I think that it flips power on 0:47:51.300 --> 0:47:54.580 its head by making people think not what money can 0:47:54.620 --> 0:47:57.360 do for yourself and what kind of wealth you can 0:47:57.420 --> 0:48:01.569 generate for yourself and where you can store your money. 0:48:02.230 --> 0:48:05.000 to be able to influence the right people, but rather 0:48:05.040 --> 0:48:08.779 it's about empowering you and your fellow community members to 0:48:09.000 --> 0:48:11.020 shape the kind of community you want to see. 0:48:11.880 --> 0:48:14.880 Since money is a form of power, a local currency 0:48:15.000 --> 0:48:17.430 is a way to take some of your power back. 0:48:18.010 --> 0:48:20.650 While local currencies may come off like some brand new 0:48:20.750 --> 0:48:24.170 idea like crypto, and while its advocates may pitch it 0:48:24.230 --> 0:48:26.870 as the sort of economic idea that Bernie bros could 0:48:26.910 --> 0:48:30.469 get behind and that aging hippies could equally love, A 0:48:30.510 --> 0:48:33.980 local currency is primarily a means for community members of 0:48:34.060 --> 0:48:37.680 all ages and walks of life to more meaningfully engage 0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:40.500 in the economic life in their cities, towns, and hamlets. 0:48:41.239 --> 0:48:44.399 And as the local currencies of the 18th and 19th 0:48:44.440 --> 0:48:48.620 centuries prove, this idea is not new. Also, it's not 0:48:48.780 --> 0:48:52.520 unique to the United States. During the Great Depression over 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:55.820 in Austria, a small town called Virgel was having a 0:48:55.860 --> 0:49:00.520 tough time. Unemployment was rampant, debts were skyrocketing, and infrastructure 0:49:00.560 --> 0:49:04.040 was falling apart. The town desperately needed money to combat 0:49:04.100 --> 0:49:07.700 all three issues, so they introduced a local currency called 0:49:08.110 --> 0:49:13.470 labor certificates. That Hail Mary economic act saved the town. 0:49:13.950 --> 0:49:15.989 Unemployment fell by 25%, at the same time that it 0:49:16.010 --> 0:49:21.950 was rising by 19% across the rest of Austria. The 0:49:22.010 --> 0:49:25.150 secret to their success was that this new form of 0:49:25.250 --> 0:49:28.950 money stayed in their town as it circulated. Thus, their 0:49:29.110 --> 0:49:33.220 introduction of this local currency blunted the devastating impacts of 0:49:33.260 --> 0:49:38.000 their Great Depression. This unexpected success became known as the 0:49:38.040 --> 0:49:42.660 Miracle of Wörgl. Unfortunately, when the town's mayor shared stories 0:49:42.700 --> 0:49:46.440 of their success at a meeting of 170 other mayors, 0:49:47.050 --> 0:49:49.730 the Central Bank of Austria caught wind of it and 0:49:49.910 --> 0:49:53.690 outlawed their local currency. Guess they saw this local currency 0:49:53.770 --> 0:49:56.390 as too much of a threat for their business model 0:49:56.469 --> 0:50:01.350 of debt and centralized banking. More recently, in 1972, a 0:50:01.370 --> 0:50:05.859 man named Ralph Borsotti created a local alternative currency experiment 0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:09.720 in Exeter, New Hampshire, called The Constant. It was called 0:50:09.860 --> 0:50:13.259 the constant because it was a citizen-issued currency backed by 0:50:13.300 --> 0:50:16.580 an index of world commodities to give the local currency 0:50:16.680 --> 0:50:20.960 real purchasing power and to keep that purchasing power constant 0:50:21.320 --> 0:50:24.489 as the years went on. Unfortunately, due to the ill 0:50:24.530 --> 0:50:28.210 health of Ralph Borsotti, his experiment with local currencies had 0:50:28.270 --> 0:50:32.430 to be discontinued. However, the spirit of this idea remained vital, 0:50:32.590 --> 0:50:36.030 particularly in the New England area where the Berkshires program 0:50:36.070 --> 0:50:41.200 would come to be decades later. Meanwhile, overseas, particularly in Europe, 0:50:41.540 --> 0:50:45.239 the idea of a local currency remained quite popular. In 2015, 0:50:45.239 --> 0:50:49.040 it was estimated that there were nearly 400 local currencies 0:50:49.120 --> 0:50:52.219 circulating in Spain. And in the UK, there's a local 0:50:52.260 --> 0:50:56.240 currency called the Brixton Pound. Here on the west coast 0:50:56.280 --> 0:50:58.590 of the United States, where I live, we've seen a 0:50:58.770 --> 0:51:02.410 number of local currencies over the years. There's the aforementioned 0:51:02.450 --> 0:51:05.350 Davis Dollars from my hometown. And down in the area 0:51:05.390 --> 0:51:09.200 of California near Yosemite National Park, there's a local currency 0:51:09.260 --> 0:51:12.420 called the North Fork Share, which is similar to the 0:51:12.500 --> 0:51:16.080 Berkshire Notes. Up in Oregon, back during the Great Depression, 0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:19.379 the town of North Bend saved their local economy by 0:51:19.460 --> 0:51:24.430 minting wood-based coins called Myrtlewood money. Around that same time, 0:51:24.489 --> 0:51:27.569 in the town of Hepner, Oregon, locals created their own 0:51:27.630 --> 0:51:32.050 local currency printed on sheepskin. But once the Great Depression passed, 0:51:32.150 --> 0:51:36.460 those local currencies were no longer necessary. At the present moment, 0:51:36.640 --> 0:51:39.520 our economy may not be as bad as the Great Depression, 0:51:39.940 --> 0:51:42.610 but the power of a local currency to protect the 0:51:42.640 --> 0:51:47.170 local community remains the same. As Peter LaRochelle points. 0:51:47.030 --> 0:51:51.450 Out, The values that are guiding systems like Berkshires honestly 0:51:51.770 --> 0:51:54.469 often feel amplified in the modern age, where people are 0:51:54.870 --> 0:51:58.480 starting to recognize the disconnect that they feel through modern systems, 0:51:58.500 --> 0:52:02.730 whether that's digitally or a more globalized economy, when their 0:52:02.770 --> 0:52:07.110 communities don't have identity. I mean, there's almost a romanticization 0:52:07.230 --> 0:52:09.089 of the past right now. I'm seeing a lot in 0:52:09.130 --> 0:52:13.440 the urbanist field. It's very trendy right now, but it's 0:52:13.480 --> 0:52:17.480 because people are looking back at a time where they 0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:22.140 felt like communities had real identity and individuality and strength 0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:26.049 of their own. And people want to see a future 0:52:26.090 --> 0:52:29.130 like that. And I don't think there are many tools 0:52:29.270 --> 0:52:32.510 quite as unique as a local currency to inspire people 0:52:32.870 --> 0:52:35.370 and create that hope and make people feel like the 0:52:35.410 --> 0:52:37.200 direction of their community is in their hands. 0:52:38.020 --> 0:52:40.719 In order for a local community to grab hold of 0:52:40.780 --> 0:52:43.900 the wheel and steer their community through the rough economic 0:52:43.960 --> 0:52:47.700 seas ahead, La Rochelle believes that a local currency is 0:52:47.800 --> 0:52:49.500 one of the greatest tools available. 0:52:49.860 --> 0:52:51.930 That's the beauty of a local currency is that we're 0:52:51.969 --> 0:52:56.550 not talking about big systems changing. On the individual level, 0:52:56.590 --> 0:53:00.720 we're just talking about where is your money going? Create 0:53:00.800 --> 0:53:04.759 a system, small nonprofit can oversee it. That takes some work. 0:53:04.860 --> 0:53:07.620 But on the individual level, you're creating change in your 0:53:07.640 --> 0:53:10.520 community just with where you spend your dollar and what 0:53:10.640 --> 0:53:13.320 kind of dollar you're using, which is something that I 0:53:13.360 --> 0:53:15.560 think a lot of people can latch on to. You know, 0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:17.180 like I said, I think I'm seeing a lot of 0:53:17.520 --> 0:53:20.680 movement within this country for people to do things more 0:53:20.760 --> 0:53:24.969 on a community level, on a face-to-face basis. And on 0:53:25.010 --> 0:53:28.520 a human scale, really. And that's where local currencies shine. 0:53:28.580 --> 0:53:31.259 It's human scale. It's about a region. It's not about 0:53:31.300 --> 0:53:32.440 growth for the sake of growth. 0:53:33.320 --> 0:53:36.660 As a thriving example of a local currency, the Berkshires 0:53:36.700 --> 0:53:40.440 program has enjoyed 20 years of success. The simple reason 0:53:40.520 --> 0:53:42.719 for its success is that it works well as a 0:53:42.760 --> 0:53:46.240 form of money. Let's check the numbers. There are currently 0:53:46.239 --> 0:53:52.270 111,000 Berkshires in circulation. there are more than 300 local 0:53:52.330 --> 0:53:55.910 businesses that accept Berkshires as a form of payment. Here's 0:53:55.950 --> 0:53:58.719 Peter LaRochelle to explain how it all works on the 0:53:58.780 --> 0:53:59.380 local level. 0:53:59.960 --> 0:54:02.120 So Berkshires are exchanged on par with U.S. 0:54:02.160 --> 0:54:02.440 Dollars. 0:54:02.460 --> 0:54:07.320 So it's $ 1 for one Berkshire. There's no secret reason 0:54:07.340 --> 0:54:10.100 to use Berkshires beyond supporting your local economy. 0:54:10.880 --> 0:54:13.990 So let's say you want to spend a Berkshire. How 0:54:14.030 --> 0:54:15.189 exactly does that work? 0:54:15.810 --> 0:54:18.839 The way Berkshires work, is anyone in the community can 0:54:18.880 --> 0:54:21.980 walk into one of our exchange points, which happen to 0:54:22.020 --> 0:54:25.529 be community banks. People walk into the bank, go up 0:54:25.570 --> 0:54:27.930 to the teller, and just do a transaction like they 0:54:27.950 --> 0:54:30.629 would any other time they walk into a bank. They 0:54:30.710 --> 0:54:33.290 ask for the teller to exchange U.S. dollars for Berkshires. 0:54:33.850 --> 0:54:37.210 They do it pretty seamlessly. And once they have Berkshires, 0:54:37.250 --> 0:54:39.049 they can spend them at any business that's willing to 0:54:39.090 --> 0:54:39.410 take them. 0:54:40.510 --> 0:54:43.060 When you use a Berkshire to buy something or to 0:54:43.200 --> 0:54:47.430 pay for a service, It's designed to be a painless exchange. 0:54:47.650 --> 0:54:50.670 There's no weird or wonky extra math to do since 0:54:50.770 --> 0:54:52.029 a Berkshire has. 0:54:51.989 --> 0:54:53.250 The same value as U.S. 0:54:53.290 --> 0:54:53.610 Dollars. 0:54:53.670 --> 0:54:56.589 So an item that costs $ 10 would cost 10 Berkshires. 0:54:56.969 --> 0:54:59.640 Consumers can spend with that business in Berkshires, get their 0:54:59.700 --> 0:55:01.360 change in Berkshires or U.S. 0:55:01.840 --> 0:55:02.180 Dollars. 0:55:02.620 --> 0:55:05.720 Note that we do not have coins because it's against 0:55:05.780 --> 0:55:08.610 the law, but you are allowed to have paper notes. 0:55:08.680 --> 0:55:10.890 So if people need change in coins, they just get 0:55:11.050 --> 0:55:11.870 regular U.S. 0:55:11.910 --> 0:55:14.739 Coinage. And then when the business receives that Berkshire, they 0:55:14.760 --> 0:55:15.360 have two options. 0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:17.160 They can bring it back to the bank or they 0:55:17.180 --> 0:55:19.680 can go and spend it elsewhere in the community at 0:55:19.760 --> 0:55:21.920 other businesses that are willing to accept Berkshires. 0:55:22.780 --> 0:55:25.759 Now, what happens when that business wants to exchange a 0:55:25.880 --> 0:55:28.440 Berkshire and convert it back into U.S. 0:55:28.480 --> 0:55:28.880 Dollars? 0:55:29.700 --> 0:55:31.060 Is that equally painless? 0:55:31.540 --> 0:55:33.839 So business could take it back to the bank and 0:55:33.880 --> 0:55:36.900 then they would have freedom with their U.S. dollars to 0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:39.469 spend that money wherever they want. So that's probably the 0:55:39.550 --> 0:55:40.160 easiest decision. 0:55:40.969 --> 0:55:44.600 There is a one-time transaction fee to convert a Berkshire 0:55:44.700 --> 0:55:48.600 back into U.S. dollars, but that cost is exceedingly low. 0:55:48.940 --> 0:55:52.960 We do have a 1.5% reverse exchange fee. So when 0:55:52.980 --> 0:55:55.180 you're obtaining Berkshires, there's no fee. But if you're trading 0:55:55.219 --> 0:55:59.290 Berkshires back for cash, there is that 1.5% exchange fee. 0:55:59.710 --> 0:56:02.870 So that's lower than what businesses are used to, whether 0:56:02.890 --> 0:56:06.690 that's with credit cards or with mobile payment platforms like 0:56:06.750 --> 0:56:10.150 Venmo when they cash out. So it's not this massive 0:56:10.190 --> 0:56:12.910 barrier to participating in Berkshires, but it's a number that's 0:56:12.969 --> 0:56:15.950 high enough to make them think, maybe I would just 0:56:15.969 --> 0:56:18.500 be better spending them in the community rather than bringing 0:56:18.540 --> 0:56:19.040 it to the bank. 0:56:20.080 --> 0:56:23.840 In other words, that 1.5% fee to convert a Berkshire 0:56:23.900 --> 0:56:26.660 back into a dollar is meant to encourage a community 0:56:26.719 --> 0:56:30.290 member or a business to continue circulating the Berkshire in 0:56:30.330 --> 0:56:33.250 the local economy for other goods or services. 0:56:33.870 --> 0:56:36.190 And the reason that we support that is because we 0:56:36.230 --> 0:56:38.569 know when they're not bringing the Berkshires back to the bank, 0:56:38.610 --> 0:56:40.750 that money has to stay in the community and it 0:56:40.790 --> 0:56:45.010 stays within that tight network of local businesses that decide 0:56:45.030 --> 0:56:48.279 to take Berkshires. And it also encourages new businesses to 0:56:48.320 --> 0:56:52.940 sign on because maybe when business gets some good that 0:56:52.980 --> 0:56:55.300 they're selling, they do get locally and they say, I 0:56:55.840 --> 0:56:58.500 have all these Berkshires, would you be willing to accept them? 0:56:58.540 --> 0:57:00.660 And then you get more people on board that way. 0:57:01.310 --> 0:57:04.310 So that's as simple as it gets. We call that 0:57:04.390 --> 0:57:08.050 recirculation of Berkshires the local multiplier effect. 0:57:08.910 --> 0:57:12.779 This local multiplier effect is another major reason for the 0:57:12.840 --> 0:57:16.560 success of Berkshires. A local currency holds the power to 0:57:16.600 --> 0:57:21.320 generate two to four times more local economic impact than, say, 0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:24.680 traditional money that gets spent at some big box store. 0:57:25.260 --> 0:57:31.240 Study after study will show that spending your money at independent, small, 0:57:31.820 --> 0:57:38.070 locally-based businesses will generate considerably higher proportion of downstream economic 0:57:38.130 --> 0:57:41.070 effects within that local economy. 0:57:41.810 --> 0:57:44.790 By keeping their dollars in their local economy, thanks to 0:57:44.830 --> 0:57:48.200 their local currency, the people of the Berkshires region strengthen 0:57:48.240 --> 0:57:51.440 their local businesses and protect the area from economic troubles 0:57:51.760 --> 0:57:54.080 that are wrecking shop in the larger economy. 0:57:54.100 --> 0:57:57.840 That's really the selling point for Berkshires. So on your end, 0:57:58.310 --> 0:58:01.250 You bought a $ 5 item for $ 5 or five Berkshires, 0:58:01.350 --> 0:58:04.610 but your purchase has a little bit more power within 0:58:04.630 --> 0:58:07.970 your community. So you feel more empowered as a consumer 0:58:08.030 --> 0:58:10.860 to create local economic development. 0:58:11.640 --> 0:58:14.740 This is also the key distinction for a Berkshire versus, say, 0:58:15.200 --> 0:58:16.940 Bitcoin or other crypto coins. 0:58:17.560 --> 0:58:21.120 A local currency is place-based and it's meant to build 0:58:21.140 --> 0:58:25.470 a sustainable local economy. So a cryptocurrency... Could be either 0:58:25.550 --> 0:58:32.100 one of those things. But in general, cryptocurrencies are speculative. Bitcoin, Dogecoin, MiamiCoin, 0:58:32.120 --> 0:58:34.800 which we mentioned earlier, those are speculative. The purpose of 0:58:35.280 --> 0:58:39.640 cryptocurrencies is not to invest in your community, even in 0:58:39.960 --> 0:58:45.040 large geographic areas. It's about personal financial gain. And often 0:58:45.060 --> 0:58:47.220 they're not even treated as currencies. They're not used to 0:58:47.300 --> 0:58:50.910 exchange goods. They're used to hold and then sell when 0:58:50.950 --> 0:58:53.100 more people buy them and the price goes up. 0:58:54.130 --> 0:58:57.430 Which raises an interesting question. Could a local currency like 0:58:57.490 --> 0:59:02.140 Berkshires issue its own cryptocurrency, one that is specifically designed 0:59:02.160 --> 0:59:04.220 for the same local community usage? 0:59:04.680 --> 0:59:08.690 We did have a digital currency in a beta form 0:59:09.290 --> 0:59:10.000 in mid to late 2000s. 0:59:10.870 --> 0:59:12.990 2022. There were a lot of benefits to the app. 0:59:13.010 --> 0:59:15.260 We were bringing in a lot of new businesses that 0:59:15.300 --> 0:59:17.380 didn't really want to deal with the paper currency, but 0:59:17.420 --> 0:59:20.360 were happy to deal with a more frictionless platform. We 0:59:20.400 --> 0:59:22.760 saw a lot of people get excited over the fact 0:59:22.840 --> 0:59:25.820 that they could use Berkshires without always having to walk 0:59:25.860 --> 0:59:27.660 into a bank. It was as easy as taking out 0:59:27.700 --> 0:59:29.180 their phone and scanning. 0:59:28.920 --> 0:59:31.370 A QR code. But there were many things that needed to. 0:59:31.350 --> 0:59:34.230 Be fixed within the app and sort of systemic things 0:59:34.290 --> 0:59:37.160 that made it not sustainable at that time, including the 0:59:37.200 --> 0:59:40.900 cost of maintaining the app. So we do want to 0:59:40.960 --> 0:59:45.240 restart a mobile payment platform with Berkshares and other digital 0:59:45.260 --> 0:59:47.620 ways to use them. But we only want to do 0:59:47.660 --> 0:59:50.160 it if we're doing it exactly right. We don't want 0:59:50.240 --> 0:59:54.010 to roll out a product that is not meeting the 0:59:54.050 --> 0:59:55.010 needs in the community. 0:59:55.930 --> 0:59:59.700 This leads to another key question. These days, who is 0:59:59.740 --> 1:00:03.620 still using paper money for their purchases? Well, we already 1:00:03.660 --> 1:00:06.820 know the answer to that, older generations. So does that 1:00:06.920 --> 1:00:09.880 limit the impact of Berkshires if younger people are less 1:00:09.940 --> 1:00:11.880 likely to use cash as a form of money? 1:00:12.440 --> 1:00:15.660 Speaking to generational gaps, in general, we find that Berkshires 1:00:15.700 --> 1:00:19.200 are used more often in older populations, people who are 1:00:19.600 --> 1:00:23.180 more familiar with The nature of walking into a bank 1:00:23.540 --> 1:00:26.340 or even just using physical currency and keeping that on 1:00:26.380 --> 1:00:29.740 their person at all times, that is admittedly getting a 1:00:29.780 --> 1:00:34.280 bit antiquated, especially ever since early 2020s where it seems 1:00:34.300 --> 1:00:38.070 like every sort of digital platform, whether it's payment or 1:00:38.150 --> 1:00:42.430 even doing business digitally by purchasing things online, we find 1:00:42.470 --> 1:00:45.790 that younger people are using those platforms more often and 1:00:46.210 --> 1:00:48.189 many of them have never even walked into a bank 1:00:48.510 --> 1:00:50.800 in their whole lives. So that's where we start to 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:53.390 see a generational gap where there's a lot of friction 1:00:53.450 --> 1:00:56.430 for a young person to use Berkshires because doing those 1:00:56.490 --> 1:00:59.790 kinds of things are not part of their daily life. 1:00:59.870 --> 1:01:00.660 They're not used to it. 1:01:11.820 --> 1:01:13.980 While young folks aren't as likely to step into a 1:01:14.040 --> 1:01:17.260 bank to exchange dollars for Berkshires, They do tend to 1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:20.000 notice them when someone else spends them in a local business. 1:01:20.460 --> 1:01:23.520 The reason is immediate. It's the artwork that colors a 1:01:23.560 --> 1:01:27.810 Berkshire note. On each denomination of Berkshires, there's a different 1:01:27.850 --> 1:01:30.730 local hero who's celebrated, both for their value to the 1:01:30.770 --> 1:01:34.830 community and to our American culture writ large. For instance, 1:01:34.970 --> 1:01:38.450 on the $ 50 Berkshire note, you find a portrait. 1:01:38.200 --> 1:01:44.560 Of Norman Rockwell, a legendary artist. whose artwork itself I 1:01:44.600 --> 1:01:47.320 think fits a lot of the themes of Berkshires. It's 1:01:48.020 --> 1:01:52.180 inclusive of everyone. There's no sector of American life that 1:01:52.220 --> 1:01:56.230 hasn't been touched by Norman Rockwell's artwork in some form 1:01:56.330 --> 1:01:59.210 or no kind of person who hasn't been represented in 1:01:59.250 --> 1:02:02.530 some form. So Norman Rockwell is natural for including on 1:02:02.550 --> 1:02:05.030 the Berkshires in that sense, but also Norman Rockwell has 1:02:05.090 --> 1:02:08.020 a long history in the Berkshires. Hundreds and hundreds of 1:02:08.080 --> 1:02:12.090 his paintings were made at his studio in Stockbridge, Massachusetts, 1:02:12.110 --> 1:02:14.490 which is in Berkshire County, just north of Great Barrington. 1:02:14.990 --> 1:02:19.910 The Norman Rockwell Museum is in Stockbridge, and his legacy 1:02:19.950 --> 1:02:24.340 plays a really foundational role in Berkshire history. And people 1:02:25.000 --> 1:02:28.800 often drive down through Stockbridge or even other Berkshire towns 1:02:28.900 --> 1:02:31.400 and say, wow, this town looks like it's straight out 1:02:31.420 --> 1:02:33.970 of a Norman Rockwell painting. And at least in the 1:02:34.010 --> 1:02:36.830 town of Stockbridge, that's because it is directly out of 1:02:36.870 --> 1:02:39.930 a Norman Rockwell painting. So we honor that history by 1:02:39.970 --> 1:02:42.770 featuring him on the $ 50 Berkshire and, of course, also 1:02:43.290 --> 1:02:46.450 honor the themes of his artwork as well, which often 1:02:46.530 --> 1:02:52.570 centered on small town life and the beauty of personal 1:02:52.610 --> 1:02:54.340 relationships at the local level. 1:02:55.160 --> 1:02:58.500 For the $ 20 Berkshire note, the Schumacher Center opted to 1:02:58.560 --> 1:03:02.260 celebrate another famous son of New England, who's also another 1:03:02.400 --> 1:03:03.640 world-famous American. 1:03:04.200 --> 1:03:09.180 We feature Herman Melville, author of Moby Dick. Herman Melville 1:03:09.640 --> 1:03:13.010 did not grow up in Berkshire County, but he eventually 1:03:13.180 --> 1:03:17.770 moved here because he found inspiration in the natural landscape 1:03:17.950 --> 1:03:21.330 of the Berkshires. He settled down at Arrowhead, or what 1:03:21.390 --> 1:03:24.750 is now Arrowhead in Pittsfield, which at this point is 1:03:25.010 --> 1:03:29.310 a museum. But at Arrowhead, that was his workplace. And 1:03:29.810 --> 1:03:32.490 In fact, one of my favorite hiking spots in Berkshire 1:03:32.510 --> 1:03:36.450 County at Monument Mountain in Great Barrington, Herman Melville frequented 1:03:36.850 --> 1:03:41.070 Monument Mountain to gain inspiration for his writings. And I 1:03:41.110 --> 1:03:44.170 think that's really cool that Herman Melville found that same 1:03:44.230 --> 1:03:47.730 inspiration in the Berkshire landscape that so many people who 1:03:47.770 --> 1:03:51.130 come here every day feel. So we honor his history 1:03:51.170 --> 1:03:53.090 and the Berkshires on the $ 20 Berkshire. 1:03:54.250 --> 1:03:57.570 As for the $ 10 Berkshire note, it celebrates a hero 1:03:57.640 --> 1:04:00.560 of the local agriculture movement. If you've ever taken part 1:04:00.620 --> 1:04:04.220 in community-supported agriculture, if you've ever signed up to receive 1:04:04.300 --> 1:04:07.900 a CSA box of fresh produce, you have Robin Van 1:04:08.020 --> 1:04:08.760 En to thank. 1:04:09.300 --> 1:04:13.640 Robin Van En founded the first community-supported agriculture project in 1:04:14.280 --> 1:04:17.430 North America. Her work created a movement out of it. 1:04:18.300 --> 1:04:20.520 You know, now we find hundreds and hundreds of farms 1:04:20.600 --> 1:04:23.940 across the country using a CSA model to raise money 1:04:23.980 --> 1:04:27.960 before the growing season and lock in capital. And instead 1:04:27.980 --> 1:04:32.150 of having to pay it back with loans with ridiculous 1:04:32.190 --> 1:04:36.050 interest rates, they just pay back that money with really 1:04:36.090 --> 1:04:39.470 delicious food that they grow. We, of course, honor that 1:04:39.530 --> 1:04:43.160 history because it's so related to our mission of community 1:04:43.180 --> 1:04:47.980 supported industry more broadly. Community supported agriculture would fall into 1:04:48.020 --> 1:04:51.900 that umbrella. So she's on the $ 10 Berkshire. Notably, her 1:04:52.460 --> 1:04:56.440 CSA farm was located in Berkshire County. It was in 1:04:56.460 --> 1:04:57.380 the town of Egremont. 1:04:57.420 --> 1:04:58.060 It still exists. 1:04:58.100 --> 1:05:01.910 Robin Van End passed away unexpectedly at a pretty young age, 1:05:02.310 --> 1:05:05.790 but the farm still has a thriving CSA program. It's 1:05:05.870 --> 1:05:08.510 on community land trust land. So there's a lot of 1:05:08.810 --> 1:05:11.650 connections with her legacy and the Schumacher Center. 1:05:12.710 --> 1:05:16.110 Next up, we have the $ 5 Berkshire note, which features 1:05:16.130 --> 1:05:18.720 a local artist portrait of W.E.B. 1:05:18.760 --> 1:05:22.860 Du Bois, which is actually, I think, a really inspiring 1:05:22.920 --> 1:05:24.920 story out of the Berkshires organization. 1:05:24.940 --> 1:05:25.700 W.E.B. 1:05:25.720 --> 1:05:29.060 Du Bois has really become the face of the town 1:05:29.080 --> 1:05:31.660 of Great Barrington and has been recognized as the son 1:05:31.680 --> 1:05:34.250 of the town. You'll find throughout Great Barrington, there are 1:05:34.430 --> 1:05:39.380 all sorts of murals and landmarks and historical sites that 1:05:39.660 --> 1:05:42.610 recount his history and are dedicated to him, you know, 1:05:42.660 --> 1:05:47.110 murals that include his face. The middle school actually has 1:05:47.170 --> 1:05:51.310 been renamed to W.E.B. Du Bois Regional Middle School. And 1:05:51.490 --> 1:05:53.870 it feels like every month there's some new project in 1:05:53.910 --> 1:05:58.840 town to further honor and educate people on his history. Recently, 1:05:59.000 --> 1:06:02.000 a statue of W.E.B. Du Bois was added outside the 1:06:02.040 --> 1:06:06.250 Great Barrington Library, Mason Library. So in general, the town 1:06:06.270 --> 1:06:08.830 has taken on a much more active role in honoring 1:06:08.870 --> 1:06:11.330 his history, but Berkshire's has been doing that for a 1:06:11.350 --> 1:06:14.150 long time. So we're glad to have played a role. 1:06:14.330 --> 1:06:17.280 We hope that we played a role in changing that 1:06:17.340 --> 1:06:20.980 perception and getting the town to more actively celebrate his history. 1:06:22.000 --> 1:06:25.660 And lastly, for the $ 1 Berkshire note, rather than celebrate 1:06:25.680 --> 1:06:29.740 an individual, the Schumacher Center opted to celebrate a whole community. 1:06:30.300 --> 1:06:33.230 It's the only Berkshire that doesn't feature a specific individual, 1:06:33.690 --> 1:06:37.890 but it does feature a Stockbridge Mohican. The Mohicans were 1:06:38.350 --> 1:06:43.450 not actually native to the Berkshire region, but they were 1:06:43.510 --> 1:06:47.730 pushed over here during colonial times. And I think it's 1:06:47.750 --> 1:06:51.710 an interesting story because nowadays they actually look back to 1:06:51.730 --> 1:06:54.740 the Berkshires as their homeland in a way, even though 1:06:54.780 --> 1:06:57.020 it wasn't necessarily where they. 1:06:56.960 --> 1:06:58.320 All came from originally. 1:06:58.910 --> 1:07:03.700 But the Mohicans were one of the only Native American 1:07:03.760 --> 1:07:09.240 tribes that fought alongside the revolutionaries in the Revolutionary War. 1:07:09.920 --> 1:07:14.000 But of course, they were pushed out of the Berkshire 1:07:14.020 --> 1:07:19.040 region eventually. But there is still an active presence with 1:07:19.260 --> 1:07:22.720 some local groups to maintain their history in the Berkshires. 1:07:22.800 --> 1:07:25.160 And we hope that Berkshires is one small part in 1:07:25.200 --> 1:07:28.140 doing that to remind people of the people that were 1:07:28.160 --> 1:07:28.880 here before us. 1:07:31.140 --> 1:07:34.540 Due to the 20-year success story of the Berkshires program, 1:07:34.980 --> 1:07:37.840 other communities across the country and around the world often 1:07:37.880 --> 1:07:41.090 approach the Schumacher Center for help to design, create, and 1:07:41.120 --> 1:07:43.030 distribute their own local currency. 1:07:43.370 --> 1:07:46.770 We are kind of that go-to institution for people that 1:07:46.830 --> 1:07:49.390 want to learn how to start their own currencies or 1:07:49.950 --> 1:07:54.860 other similar systems. And the number one challenge that I 1:07:54.890 --> 1:07:58.460 bring up to them, challenge, but also what we see 1:07:58.560 --> 1:08:01.480 is the most important thing for obtaining success with a 1:08:01.520 --> 1:08:04.919 local currency in the United States, would be working with 1:08:05.240 --> 1:08:09.840 community banks. Berkshires is very unique in that we do 1:08:09.880 --> 1:08:13.840 not exchange currency ourselves. You don't walk into a Berkshires 1:08:14.080 --> 1:08:17.120 office and trade in dollars for Berkshires. You walk into 1:08:17.160 --> 1:08:20.260 a community bank. In general, when you're working with a 1:08:20.300 --> 1:08:24.520 small community bank, they have all the infrastructure needed to 1:08:24.590 --> 1:08:26.269 account for a currency. 1:08:27.030 --> 1:08:29.970 This is equally key for the success of a local currency, 1:08:30.030 --> 1:08:32.970 since it is money, and it's important that people have 1:08:33.110 --> 1:08:35.429 full faith and trust in their money. 1:08:35.890 --> 1:08:38.479 To build trust in that system, you can't tell people, 1:08:38.640 --> 1:08:41.320 I'm keeping track of how much money is where, and 1:08:41.380 --> 1:08:43.340 I'll be able to make sure you can always trade 1:08:43.380 --> 1:08:45.660 your money back in. That's not going to build trust. 1:08:45.720 --> 1:08:47.559 But when you're doing it through an institution like a bank, 1:08:47.979 --> 1:08:50.780 that has the resources to just manage Berkshires like they 1:08:50.800 --> 1:08:53.780 do any other account. So it's not a crazy load 1:08:53.820 --> 1:08:56.610 on their part. That's how a system like Berkshires can 1:08:56.650 --> 1:08:57.950 thrive for so many years. 1:08:58.910 --> 1:09:00.920 If this sounds good to your ears, and if you'd 1:09:00.960 --> 1:09:03.280 like to see something like this in your local community, 1:09:03.620 --> 1:09:06.860 Peter LaRochelle has a few recommendations for how to make 1:09:06.900 --> 1:09:07.299 it happen. 1:09:07.720 --> 1:09:09.740 So if you're looking to start a local currency in 1:09:09.760 --> 1:09:12.469 the United States, the challenge that you're going to have 1:09:12.479 --> 1:09:16.130 to face, but also probably gives you the best opportunity 1:09:16.170 --> 1:09:20.170 for long-term success, is finding a banking institutions that you 1:09:20.210 --> 1:09:22.830 can work with and work out of that share your mission. 1:09:23.250 --> 1:09:24.790 You're not going to be able to work out of 1:09:24.810 --> 1:09:25.729 the Bank of America. 1:09:26.830 --> 1:09:29.889 This should surprise no one. Much like the Austrian local 1:09:29.930 --> 1:09:32.460 currency that saved a town but was outlawed when the 1:09:32.479 --> 1:09:35.840 central bank heard about its success, in today's banking world, 1:09:35.939 --> 1:09:40.040 a major transnational bank like Bank of America has similar 1:09:40.100 --> 1:09:42.800 reasons to not want to see the success of a 1:09:42.860 --> 1:09:47.150 local currency. it offers direct competition for their bottom line, 1:09:47.290 --> 1:09:50.630 which is what matters most to big banks. Back to 1:09:50.650 --> 1:09:51.550 Peter LaRochelle. 1:09:52.110 --> 1:09:54.010 I say that all the time. If those are the 1:09:54.030 --> 1:09:56.190 only banks in your community, you might have to explore 1:09:56.229 --> 1:09:59.180 other options because they don't want to get involved with 1:09:59.260 --> 1:10:01.160 initiatives like this. You have to work with the kinds 1:10:01.200 --> 1:10:03.660 of banks that share your mission. And you can work 1:10:03.700 --> 1:10:06.640 through a credit union, perhaps. Or in the Northeast, we 1:10:06.680 --> 1:10:09.940 have mutual banks that operate similarly to a credit union, 1:10:10.020 --> 1:10:13.969 but Still, they're the small community-focused banks that actually have 1:10:14.090 --> 1:10:17.490 ownership within the community. So they're more likely to sign 1:10:17.590 --> 1:10:20.350 on on an initiative like this. And since they share 1:10:20.370 --> 1:10:23.389 your mission of local economic development, that's also an easy sell. 1:10:25.010 --> 1:10:29.060 Norman Rockwell, who was mentioned earlier, celebrated small-town life and 1:10:29.120 --> 1:10:33.260 a local-based idea of Americana. And as such, his work 1:10:33.360 --> 1:10:36.120 serves as a reminder of the importance of embracing a 1:10:36.200 --> 1:10:39.230 local identity and as a point not just of pride 1:10:39.270 --> 1:10:42.530 of place, but as a source of community power in 1:10:42.630 --> 1:10:46.490 order to survive those storms that blow in from faraway 1:10:46.550 --> 1:10:51.900 places and threaten a community. Norman Rockwell serves as a 1:10:51.939 --> 1:10:55.180 beautiful reminder of the past and also what lessons we 1:10:55.220 --> 1:10:56.600 can pull from our history. 1:10:57.540 --> 1:11:00.000 The people that we feature on the Berkshires, like Norman 1:11:00.040 --> 1:11:03.500 Rockwell or W.E.B. Du Bois, these are people who everyone 1:11:03.540 --> 1:11:07.439 in a community can rally behind and can share something with. 1:11:07.740 --> 1:11:11.320 We're speaking to shared values that I think Americans across 1:11:11.360 --> 1:11:17.429 the political spectrum, Americans across generations that they share. People 1:11:17.510 --> 1:11:22.910 want to see a vibrant, thriving local economy within their community. 1:11:23.330 --> 1:11:27.110 And that's what we are ultimately looking for. And what's 1:11:27.150 --> 1:11:31.010 more American than teaming up with neighbors from any background, 1:11:31.530 --> 1:11:36.030 from all identities to identify shared values and Do work 1:11:36.070 --> 1:11:39.130 together to achieve that community and vision that. 1:11:39.070 --> 1:11:42.270 You want to see. That's the American dream in a nutshell. 1:11:53.430 --> 1:11:57.050 If money makes the world go round, delivery workers make 1:11:57.150 --> 1:12:00.840 New York City go round. From delivering morning coffee to 1:12:00.960 --> 1:12:05.299 sweet green bowl slop or midnight Taco Bell, food delivery 1:12:05.340 --> 1:12:10.540 workers shuttle snacks and treats 24-7 via bicycle and scooter, 1:12:11.300 --> 1:12:15.839 while a network of last-mile couriers fill my apartment lobby 1:12:16.000 --> 1:12:20.300 with Amazon packages. Seriously, one of my new, more well-off 1:12:20.360 --> 1:12:24.160 neighbors must, like, never go to the store. They get 1:12:24.810 --> 1:12:28.290 every single thing delivered. I'm talking almost 10 Amazon packages 1:12:28.310 --> 1:12:32.870 a day for the same person. But there's an odd 1:12:32.910 --> 1:12:37.780 little quirk. with how Amazon transports orders from the fulfillment 1:12:37.820 --> 1:12:43.179 center to your doorstep, in that they don't. The worker 1:12:43.240 --> 1:12:47.480 delivering your Amazon package may be wearing an Amazon vest, 1:12:47.680 --> 1:12:50.340 driving an Amazon van, and peeing in a water bottle 1:12:50.360 --> 1:12:52.920 so they don't fall behind on a delivery route scheduled 1:12:53.000 --> 1:12:58.950 by Amazon, but technically, that worker is not employed by Amazon. 1:12:59.770 --> 1:13:04.650 They work for a subcontractor, which Amazon calls a delivery 1:13:04.770 --> 1:13:07.590 service partner or a DSP. 1:13:08.450 --> 1:13:10.470 Why might that be? Picture this. 1:13:11.290 --> 1:13:15.300 A hurricane is rolling into town, but Amazon still needs 1:13:15.340 --> 1:13:19.060 to deliver those prime two-day orders. While drivers are in 1:13:19.100 --> 1:13:22.000 the middle of their route, the storm suddenly gets worse, 1:13:22.580 --> 1:13:26.350 and a driver gets into a bad accident. Because that 1:13:26.430 --> 1:13:32.430 driver is technically employed by a subcontractor, Amazon isn't responsible 1:13:32.590 --> 1:13:35.810 for the well-being of the worker and can't be held 1:13:35.910 --> 1:13:41.190 liable for any damages. Then let's say those drivers unionize 1:13:41.450 --> 1:13:46.370 due to dangerous working conditions. Rather than negotiate with the union, 1:13:47.229 --> 1:13:52.110 Amazon can just terminate their contract with the delivery service partner. 1:13:53.590 --> 1:13:56.889 I'm Garrison Davis, and this is It Could Happen Here. 1:13:57.680 --> 1:14:00.809 And this is one of those this is already happening 1:14:00.910 --> 1:14:05.010 type stories, and actually has been for some time, but 1:14:05.050 --> 1:14:09.330 now people are organizing to do something about it. About 1:14:09.350 --> 1:14:12.890 a year ago, the Teamsters teamed up with Democratic Socialist 1:14:13.010 --> 1:14:19.720 New York City Councilmember Tiffany Caban to introduce Bill 0518-2026, 1:14:20.410 --> 1:14:25.440 also known as the Delivery Protection Act, which, among other things, 1:14:26.040 --> 1:14:31.050 would require companies like Amazon to to actually employ the 1:14:31.090 --> 1:14:35.689 drivers and warehouse workers who handle the so-called last mile 1:14:35.910 --> 1:14:39.830 of delivery, getting your package from the local warehouse to 1:14:39.930 --> 1:14:44.479 your doorstep. The bill was reintroduced this past February, and 1:14:44.740 --> 1:14:47.059 for the past few months, the New York City chapter 1:14:47.220 --> 1:14:51.099 of the Democratic Socialists of America have been organizing to 1:14:51.160 --> 1:14:53.179 push the bill over the finish line. 1:14:53.850 --> 1:14:56.630 My name's Matt Maresca. Olivia and I are both on 1:14:56.650 --> 1:15:00.710 the Labor Working Group Organizing Committee for NYC DSA. I 1:15:00.710 --> 1:15:05.030 am the Legislative Coordinator, the Labor Legislative Coordinator for the group. 1:15:05.590 --> 1:15:09.950 I'm Olivia, and I serve on both the Labor Working 1:15:09.970 --> 1:15:13.230 Group Organizing Committee, as well as the Steering Committee for 1:15:13.250 --> 1:15:14.250 the entire chapter. 1:15:15.170 --> 1:15:18.470 Currently, anyone you see delivering packages in New York City 1:15:18.750 --> 1:15:21.890 to you, to your apartment building, to your house, wearing 1:15:21.910 --> 1:15:24.410 the Amazon vest with the Amazon truck, all of those 1:15:24.470 --> 1:15:28.010 people are subcontractors. They work out of what are called 1:15:28.030 --> 1:15:32.670 delivery service providers or DSPs. And these, again, kind of 1:15:32.689 --> 1:15:35.850 basic subcontractors. But the problem with that model is that 1:15:36.210 --> 1:15:39.140 Amazon does that to avoid all accountability either to their 1:15:39.180 --> 1:15:43.880 workers or to the city. So anytime that workers express 1:15:44.140 --> 1:15:48.500 dissatisfaction with the working conditions or seem like they're organizing 1:15:48.840 --> 1:15:53.269 because of those conditions, or if the city is noticing 1:15:53.310 --> 1:15:57.050 that one of these DSPs is causing way more incidents 1:15:57.250 --> 1:16:00.530 on the road than other providers of delivery. Anything like 1:16:00.570 --> 1:16:02.979 that happens and they start, people start looking into one 1:16:03.020 --> 1:16:06.420 of these DSPs, Amazon will just cut their contract with 1:16:06.460 --> 1:16:09.500 the subcontractor and say, you know, that wasn't us. That was, 1:16:09.520 --> 1:16:13.500 you know, Matt Maresca LLC or Garrison Davis LLC. Nothing 1:16:13.520 --> 1:16:15.860 to do with me. You know, it sounds silly, but 1:16:15.900 --> 1:16:18.419 it's actually pretty strong legal defense, apparently. 1:16:19.160 --> 1:16:22.990 The Delivery Protection Act seeks to change all that. The 1:16:23.030 --> 1:16:27.379 bill would require last-mile delivery facilities to obtain a license 1:16:27.460 --> 1:16:30.820 from the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection and establish 1:16:30.880 --> 1:16:35.260 minimum safety, training, and worker protection standards. But the big 1:16:35.340 --> 1:16:38.680 thing this bill would do is force Amazon and other 1:16:38.760 --> 1:16:44.300 companies that use third-party contractors to directly employ their delivery 1:16:44.500 --> 1:16:48.840 and warehouse workers. According to the office of Mayor Zoran Mamdani, 1:16:49.340 --> 1:16:52.040 the Delivery Protection Act would give the city the tools 1:16:52.100 --> 1:16:56.540 to regulate last-mile operations and ensure major companies like Amazon 1:16:56.939 --> 1:17:00.550 are responsible for their workers and the consequences of the 1:17:00.600 --> 1:17:01.990 business decisions they make. 1:17:02.510 --> 1:17:05.830 So what this bill does is mandate that any package 1:17:05.850 --> 1:17:09.689 delivery service from Amazon or another large logistical company coming 1:17:09.729 --> 1:17:12.680 into New York City has to directly employ its drivers. 1:17:12.900 --> 1:17:15.700 So that means all of these drivers now in those vests, 1:17:15.860 --> 1:17:19.470 in those Amazon trucks, need to be directly employed by Amazon, 1:17:19.590 --> 1:17:23.490 which means that Amazon is both directly responsible for any 1:17:23.530 --> 1:17:25.970 problems they cause on the road or their emissions or 1:17:26.010 --> 1:17:28.450 things like that, and also means that if their workers 1:17:28.490 --> 1:17:32.090 start organizing, Amazon can't just cut them all and replace 1:17:32.110 --> 1:17:34.970 them with different people nearly as easily. So beyond that, 1:17:35.010 --> 1:17:37.090 that's the main bulk of it. It also does give 1:17:37.130 --> 1:17:41.540 workers extra protections for expressing their organizing rights on the job. 1:17:41.580 --> 1:17:43.300 So it gets close to giving them what we might 1:17:43.340 --> 1:17:45.700 call just cause protections on the job, although it's not 1:17:45.740 --> 1:17:48.300 quite that strong. But that means it's much harder for 1:17:48.320 --> 1:17:50.460 them to be fired for speaking up. And then it 1:17:50.560 --> 1:17:54.960 also allows for independent safety inspectors to go into these 1:17:55.020 --> 1:17:58.400 warehouses and provide the education needed to make sure the 1:17:58.430 --> 1:18:00.400 drivers are safe. And also New Yorkers are safe when 1:18:00.430 --> 1:18:04.110 they're delivering their packages. So it's really a holistic bill 1:18:04.170 --> 1:18:07.240 to regulate Amazon in the city. And especially make sure 1:18:07.260 --> 1:18:09.729 that the workers are protected and have their rights to 1:18:09.780 --> 1:18:11.010 organize protected. 1:18:12.110 --> 1:18:16.809 And that protection is really important. Because right now, if 1:18:16.830 --> 1:18:19.809 a delivery driver gets hurt or gets into an accident, 1:18:20.310 --> 1:18:24.950 because those drivers technically work for a, quote, third party, 1:18:25.510 --> 1:18:30.140 Amazon can't be held liable, even when it's Amazon who orders, quote, 1:18:30.260 --> 1:18:35.420 delivery service partners to send out drivers in dangerous weather conditions. 1:18:36.260 --> 1:18:40.439 A Bloomberg investigation from earlier this year detailed a series 1:18:40.600 --> 1:18:44.850 of such incidents with a delivery service partner in Southern California. 1:18:45.570 --> 1:18:51.480 In summer of 2022, Amazon complained to the DSP that 1:18:51.580 --> 1:18:56.840 drivers were falling behind on their schedule while temperatures reached 1:18:56.840 --> 1:19:01.929 107 degrees. The DSP manager told an Amazon rep that 1:19:02.410 --> 1:19:06.610 Amazon failed to apply their own policy on easing workloads 1:19:06.830 --> 1:19:10.490 during extreme heat and But the Amazon rep responded by 1:19:10.939 --> 1:19:13.880 saying it was too late to change the day's delivery assignments, 1:19:14.460 --> 1:19:18.060 and the manager would need a written affidavit to prove 1:19:18.620 --> 1:19:22.820 that workers were too sick to perform. And Amazon threatened 1:19:22.880 --> 1:19:27.640 breach of contract if packages were delayed. Later that winter, 1:19:27.840 --> 1:19:33.070 during a historic storm, an Amazon rep told this DSP that, quote, 1:19:33.590 --> 1:19:36.270 delivery must be attempted despite. 1:19:37.340 --> 1:19:42.260 Flash flooding, road closures, and grounded flights. So drivers were 1:19:42.320 --> 1:19:47.400 dispatched out of fear that Amazon might terminate their DSP contract. 1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:51.710 But then a few months later, their contract was cut 1:19:51.910 --> 1:19:56.870 anyway after the workers tried to form a union. And 1:19:56.930 --> 1:20:01.310 this is not an isolated incident. Per Bloomberg, the Teamsters 1:20:01.390 --> 1:20:04.680 have filed complaints with the National Labor Relations Board and 1:20:05.210 --> 1:20:10.220 accusing Amazon of terminating contracts with several DSPs because the 1:20:10.280 --> 1:20:15.620 workers unionized. Just a few weeks before the Delivery Protection 1:20:15.720 --> 1:20:21.580 Act was introduced last year, Amazon fired over 150 unionized 1:20:21.680 --> 1:20:26.250 delivery drivers in Queens by cutting ties with the third-party 1:20:26.310 --> 1:20:33.560 delivery service partner. Even calling DSPs, quote, third-parties is misleading, 1:20:33.800 --> 1:20:37.840 because they don't operate as such. Everything about how they 1:20:37.920 --> 1:20:43.540 run is controlled by Amazon. Through a FOIA request, Bloomberg 1:20:43.600 --> 1:20:46.900 was able to obtain thousands of pages of confidential Amazon 1:20:46.939 --> 1:20:52.010 records related to an NLRB case against Amazon for firing 1:20:52.050 --> 1:20:56.469 that DSP in California after its workers unionized. A case, 1:20:56.530 --> 1:20:59.469 by the way, that was settled in favor of Amazon 1:21:00.160 --> 1:21:05.360 after Trump appointed a former Amazon lawyer to serve as 1:21:05.479 --> 1:21:10.680 National Labor Relations Board General Counsel. But that's another episode. 1:21:11.650 --> 1:21:17.710 Per Bloomberg, these confidential company documents, quote, lay bare Amazon's 1:21:17.890 --> 1:21:23.930 intimate and intensive regulation of workers it insists aren't its employees, 1:21:24.530 --> 1:21:28.570 including governing which drivers DSPs can hire, when they work, 1:21:28.990 --> 1:21:32.450 what they wear, what they say, how they smell, and 1:21:32.530 --> 1:21:37.540 much more. Amazon requires that DSPs make drivers sign non-disclosure 1:21:37.580 --> 1:21:41.700 agreements and take drug tests when an Amazon rep deems appropriate. 1:21:42.500 --> 1:21:46.380 On the job, drivers are required to wear Amazon polos 1:21:46.640 --> 1:21:50.310 and Amazon pants or shorts with the options of an 1:21:50.410 --> 1:21:54.229 Amazon hat, never to be worn backward, and an Amazon coat. 1:21:55.170 --> 1:22:00.600 Amazon also requires that drivers be, quote, neat and clean, including, quote, 1:22:01.140 --> 1:22:06.450 prevention of unpleasant breath or body odor, modest perfume slash cologne, 1:22:06.890 --> 1:22:11.850 and clean teeth, face slash ears, fingernails and hair, unquote. 1:22:12.550 --> 1:22:16.610 If Amazon isn't satisfied with a particular driver, it can, quote, 1:22:16.910 --> 1:22:22.850 deactivate them, unilaterally terminating their authorization to deliver its packages. 1:22:23.770 --> 1:22:27.870 According to company records, Amazon also formulates performance rankings of 1:22:27.930 --> 1:22:33.129 DSP drivers and creates leaderboards for each DSP owner, ranking 1:22:33.290 --> 1:22:38.620 each of their staff. Amazon's systems also use bright yellow, orange, 1:22:38.780 --> 1:22:42.560 or red to mark, quote, areas where a driver has 1:22:42.620 --> 1:22:48.680 spent excessive amounts of time. Amazon also controls AI-powered cameras 1:22:48.860 --> 1:22:52.670 in drivers' vans, which are supposed to flag unsafe driving. 1:22:53.270 --> 1:22:56.470 Drivers say, quote, the cameras can tag them with undue 1:22:56.510 --> 1:23:01.990 infractions for yawning or drinking water or just having breasts 1:23:02.189 --> 1:23:07.729 that obscure their seatbelt, unquote. And because of the high 1:23:07.770 --> 1:23:12.070 delivery quotas, drivers are still routinely forced to pee in 1:23:12.130 --> 1:23:15.750 bottles to meet their assigned deliveries. And due to these 1:23:15.890 --> 1:23:20.429 new AI-powered cameras, some drivers are forced to move around 1:23:20.510 --> 1:23:24.820 Amazon boxes to block the cameras from seeing their genitals 1:23:24.939 --> 1:23:28.880 before peeing. Amazon also has the live location of all 1:23:28.900 --> 1:23:32.330 of their drivers, and if something goes wrong, those drivers 1:23:32.370 --> 1:23:37.110 are supposed to call a hotline operated by Amazon, not 1:23:37.130 --> 1:23:42.450 the delivery service provider. Amazon offers DSPs templates for job 1:23:42.490 --> 1:23:46.290 listings and has to approve each new hire, who is 1:23:46.470 --> 1:23:51.680 then required to attend a multi-day training program also facilitated 1:23:51.700 --> 1:23:56.600 by by Amazon. According to these internal company documents, Amazon 1:23:56.660 --> 1:24:00.850 outlines seven steps drivers must follow for a successful delivery 1:24:01.560 --> 1:24:06.210 and instructs drivers to, quote, help validate the customer's investment 1:24:06.310 --> 1:24:10.950 by greeting them with a smile, being enthusiastic, and thanking 1:24:10.990 --> 1:24:17.050 the customer for choosing Amazon, unquote. And again, Amazon insists 1:24:17.189 --> 1:24:21.490 that these drivers do not, in fact, work for Amazon. 1:24:22.260 --> 1:24:26.960 even though Amazon tells these DSPs that these drivers, quote, 1:24:27.580 --> 1:24:33.750 represent Amazon to our customers. Bloomberg interviewed a dozen drivers 1:24:33.790 --> 1:24:40.450 from various DSPs who described these subcontractors as essentially shell 1:24:40.530 --> 1:24:46.090 companies that, quote, force Amazon's extreme rules, constant surveillance, and 1:24:46.189 --> 1:24:50.320 grueling quotas that in some urban areas can reach 30 1:24:50.320 --> 1:24:54.890 stops an hour. One says her DSP manager suggested a 1:24:54.970 --> 1:24:57.750 funnel that she could use to pee into a bottle 1:24:57.850 --> 1:25:01.299 in her van. Others say their managers told them they 1:25:01.340 --> 1:25:05.600 must precisely follow any route Amazon software lays out for them, 1:25:06.300 --> 1:25:09.620 even if it makes no sense, to help the algorithm learn. 1:25:10.320 --> 1:25:17.170 Amazon says that such characterizations are, quote, false. Algorithmic management 1:25:17.410 --> 1:25:20.850 is a big part of this model. how else could 1:25:21.030 --> 1:25:26.110 Amazon manage hundreds of thousands of drivers across thousands of 1:25:26.130 --> 1:25:32.820 allegedly independent subcontractors? Amazon plugs all the surveillance data from 1:25:32.900 --> 1:25:37.240 location tracking, delivery metrics, and live cameras into an AI 1:25:37.340 --> 1:25:42.939 which creates evolving minimum efficiency standards to apply to all 1:25:43.000 --> 1:25:47.970 workers like a form of digital tailorism. Contrast that with 1:25:48.630 --> 1:25:53.210 the Teamsters UPS union, who, in their last contract, banned 1:25:53.530 --> 1:25:59.979 inward-facing surveillance cameras and prohibited UPS from disciplining drivers solely 1:26:00.040 --> 1:26:05.860 based on GPS data, algorithmic metrics, or surveillance technology. Meaning, 1:26:06.360 --> 1:26:10.880 workers can't get punished just for falling below an algorithmically 1:26:11.000 --> 1:26:14.510 projected quota. And if they do, they can file a grievance. 1:26:15.189 --> 1:26:22.470 But essentially, this subcontracted last-mile DSP model allows Amazon to 1:26:22.910 --> 1:26:27.520 maximize delivery speed without having to worry about the workers' 1:26:27.620 --> 1:26:31.260 well-being and the safety of both the drivers themselves and 1:26:31.300 --> 1:26:35.599 the neighborhoods on the delivery routes. Amazon gets to pass 1:26:35.640 --> 1:26:41.740 the buck to these, quote, third-party subcontractors. This whole last-mile 1:26:41.820 --> 1:26:45.910 scheme is just a method to evade accountability and for 1:26:46.070 --> 1:26:49.969 underpaying workers while forcing them to work at an excruciating 1:26:50.030 --> 1:27:06.979 pace in unsafe conditions. There are thousands of DSP subcontractors 1:27:07.080 --> 1:27:10.809 with hundreds of thousands of drivers who delivering your Amazon 1:27:10.830 --> 1:27:14.320 packages all across the country. In the past few years, 1:27:14.860 --> 1:27:19.420 last mile delivery facilities have rapidly expanded in New York City. 1:27:20.320 --> 1:27:25.010 Since 2017, 18 such facilities have opened across New York City, 1:27:25.010 --> 1:27:28.990 11 of them since 2020, driven by the pandemic era 1:27:29.210 --> 1:27:34.890 e-commerce boom. In 2017, about 1.1 million packages were delivered 1:27:35.130 --> 1:27:39.480 every day in the city. By 2024, That number more 1:27:39.520 --> 1:27:44.340 than doubled to 2.5 million packages per day, indicating that 1:27:44.640 --> 1:27:48.220 nearly a third of New Yorkers receive packages on a 1:27:48.300 --> 1:27:52.870 daily basis. According to a report by the city controller, 1:27:53.790 --> 1:27:59.950 between 2022 and 2024, more than 2,000 severe workplace injuries 1:28:00.110 --> 1:28:04.280 at last-mile facilities were reported to OSHA. The injury rate 1:28:04.439 --> 1:28:09.110 at Amazon DSPs was nearly five times higher than the 1:28:09.189 --> 1:28:14.710 national average. And after these last mile facilities opened, surrounding 1:28:14.810 --> 1:28:21.010 areas saw a 137% rise in truck injury crashes. Currently, 1:28:21.030 --> 1:28:26.290 there are seven ongoing investigations into these third-party last mile 1:28:26.330 --> 1:28:31.040 facilities by the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection. According 1:28:31.080 --> 1:28:34.160 to the Teamsters, who have been fighting to organize Amazon 1:28:34.200 --> 1:28:37.530 workers in New York City for years, if the Delivery 1:28:37.570 --> 1:28:40.910 Protection Act gets passed, New York will would become the 1:28:41.060 --> 1:28:46.460 first city to outlaw this exploitative subcontractor model and require 1:28:46.520 --> 1:28:51.320 companies like Amazon directly employ and therefore be responsible for 1:28:51.860 --> 1:28:56.590 their last mile delivery workers. And this past summer, the 1:28:56.689 --> 1:29:00.210 NYC DSA Labor Working Group has been working with the 1:29:00.270 --> 1:29:04.599 Teamsters to pressure the city council into passing this bill. 1:29:05.560 --> 1:29:08.840 How long has the Delivery Protection Act been something that 1:29:08.860 --> 1:29:11.580 the organization has been focused on organizing for? 1:29:12.200 --> 1:29:15.400 So we decided it should be a priority in the spring. 1:29:15.420 --> 1:29:19.420 Our term on leadership started in January, and we did 1:29:19.460 --> 1:29:22.599 a process of looking through city and state bills that 1:29:22.650 --> 1:29:24.630 we wanted to work on. It really has gone to 1:29:24.689 --> 1:29:27.810 high gear over the summer, though. when we knew that 1:29:28.030 --> 1:29:30.330 our allies in the labor movement were looking to push 1:29:30.390 --> 1:29:33.710 this for a vote in the fall. So we really 1:29:33.830 --> 1:29:37.769 started our kickoff in July. And then we've been canvassing 1:29:37.800 --> 1:29:41.340 a bunch of different districts throughout the city since the 1:29:41.360 --> 1:29:43.580 start of August. And it's been going ever since. 1:29:44.300 --> 1:29:44.680 Yeah. 1:29:44.960 --> 1:29:47.500 And I should just note, you know, that's when we 1:29:47.540 --> 1:29:51.059 kicked into high gear. But of course, Tiffany Caban, our 1:29:51.120 --> 1:29:54.390 socialist in office and the city council has been working 1:29:54.400 --> 1:30:00.250 closely With the Amazon Teamsters and the workers, these Amazon 1:30:00.270 --> 1:30:04.090 locations for quite a while, and the team that helped 1:30:04.110 --> 1:30:06.550 draft the legislation and move it and introduce it in 1:30:06.570 --> 1:30:09.130 city halls, and we've been working on it for a 1:30:09.370 --> 1:30:12.460 lot longer. So we're building on a really strong foundation. 1:30:13.040 --> 1:30:16.780 What has the organizing around this bill looked like on 1:30:16.800 --> 1:30:20.219 the ground and also in the digital sphere? 1:30:21.020 --> 1:30:22.880 On our end, so as the labor working group, we've 1:30:22.920 --> 1:30:27.290 really been focused on a large-scale canvassing operation for the bill. 1:30:27.430 --> 1:30:31.500 So we've been having canvases every two weeks. Started in 1:30:31.580 --> 1:30:36.800 a council district of Rita Joseph in Flatbush. We printed 1:30:36.840 --> 1:30:39.580 a lot of literature with her face on it, demanding 1:30:39.600 --> 1:30:42.720 that she get onto the bill. And she immediately got on. 1:30:42.820 --> 1:30:46.120 So I have about 4,000 pieces of literature that I 1:30:46.140 --> 1:30:48.000 can no longer use, which is a good. 1:30:47.900 --> 1:30:48.760 Problem to have. 1:30:49.560 --> 1:30:51.230 Since then, we made new lit that doesn't have anyone's 1:30:51.240 --> 1:30:53.830 face on it because we've been flipping more council members. 1:30:53.870 --> 1:30:58.810 So we did Three rounds of canvassing for four different 1:30:58.820 --> 1:31:00.570 city council members who are also not on the bill. 1:31:01.110 --> 1:31:04.830 We're going to canvass in Speaker Julie Menden's district because 1:31:05.110 --> 1:31:07.350 right now we actually already have a super majority on 1:31:07.390 --> 1:31:10.570 the city council. So really the only thing standing in 1:31:10.630 --> 1:31:13.350 our way is getting the speaker to introduce it for 1:31:13.390 --> 1:31:16.290 a vote because she ultimately really controls what goes up 1:31:16.310 --> 1:31:18.350 to a vote, even if the bill already has a 1:31:18.820 --> 1:31:21.520 super majority. So that's the main thing we've been doing. 1:31:21.580 --> 1:31:23.970 But in addition to that, we've been working with a 1:31:24.330 --> 1:31:28.509 research team to look into the subcontractors that Amazon uses 1:31:28.610 --> 1:31:32.530 for these. They call them DSPs, delivery service providers, to 1:31:32.600 --> 1:31:34.940 get a feel for who actually owns and operates these 1:31:34.979 --> 1:31:37.540 and how safe they are for workers. And that's really 1:31:37.560 --> 1:31:40.200 been something we're working on closely with our Teamster partners. 1:31:40.580 --> 1:31:42.940 And we've also had a number of rallies and things 1:31:43.000 --> 1:31:45.260 as well at City Hall. So that's all really been 1:31:45.280 --> 1:31:46.400 in the last few months. 1:31:47.320 --> 1:31:52.080 It's not just Amazon who's using this last mile subcontractor model. 1:31:52.870 --> 1:31:59.120 FedEx also uses subcontractors called ground contracted service providers, and 1:31:59.320 --> 1:32:01.720 they too would be affected by the bill. 1:32:02.400 --> 1:32:05.610 Obviously, Amazon is the biggest company that would be affected 1:32:05.729 --> 1:32:08.650 by this, but it's not specifically targeted at Amazon. It's 1:32:08.750 --> 1:32:12.010 targeted at any business that is operating what's called a 1:32:12.070 --> 1:32:15.929 last mile delivery operation. In the city of New York. 1:32:16.270 --> 1:32:19.890 So there are other companies that would be affected. I believe, 1:32:19.910 --> 1:32:23.809 you know, Walmart also operates sometimes on this model. But, 1:32:23.830 --> 1:32:26.229 you know, Amazon is obviously by far the biggest. They 1:32:26.250 --> 1:32:28.270 have the biggest market share. So, of course, they're the 1:32:28.390 --> 1:32:29.650 ones who are most afraid of this. 1:32:30.510 --> 1:32:34.600 And afraid of it they are. As of August, Amazon 1:32:34.640 --> 1:32:39.200 has spent at least $ 5 million lobbying against the Delivery 1:32:39.240 --> 1:32:44.360 Protection Act. And according to DSA, that spending has only increased. 1:32:44.830 --> 1:32:48.290 You know, you asked about in the digital space, certainly 1:32:48.370 --> 1:32:52.740 our opponents have been hard at work in the digital space. 1:32:53.260 --> 1:32:57.820 Amazon dropped how much how much money, Matt? Like millions 1:32:57.860 --> 1:32:58.459 of dollars. 1:32:58.600 --> 1:33:02.460 It's at eight million now, I believe. Eight million dollars. 1:33:02.920 --> 1:33:03.400 Yeah. 1:33:03.860 --> 1:33:07.920 And it's not just Amazon. They got their friends in REBNY, 1:33:08.100 --> 1:33:11.790 the Real Estate Board of New York. to believe that 1:33:11.830 --> 1:33:14.410 this is also something that they should oppose. So they've 1:33:14.479 --> 1:33:18.260 been spending money against this, lobbying against this. And there 1:33:18.300 --> 1:33:20.700 are ads right now, there are digital ads, you know, 1:33:20.760 --> 1:33:23.820 trying to convince people that this bill is somehow going 1:33:23.860 --> 1:33:29.280 to be harmful to small businesses, which is ludicrous because, 1:33:29.340 --> 1:33:32.280 you know, Amazon is the biggest killers of small business. 1:33:33.400 --> 1:33:36.380 Some of that money has gone to a corporate lobbying 1:33:36.420 --> 1:33:41.620 group called the Five Bureau Jobs Campaign. who commissioned a 1:33:41.680 --> 1:33:47.360 study that miraculously concluded that the Delivery Protection Act would 1:33:47.520 --> 1:33:55.200 raise annual delivery costs for New York households by $ 664 1:33:53.380 --> 1:33:59.090 a year and threaten 10,000 city jobs. Amazon themselves told 1:33:59.130 --> 1:34:02.570 the city council that the Delivery Protection Act would prohibit 1:34:02.610 --> 1:34:07.250 their agreements with more than 40, quote, small businesses, that is, 1:34:07.650 --> 1:34:14.050 delivery service partners, and put over 5,000 jobs at risk. Now, 1:34:14.210 --> 1:34:18.870 the bill includes a retention clause requiring Amazon or whatever 1:34:18.910 --> 1:34:23.430 company to offer to rehire subcontracted drivers and warehouse workers 1:34:23.950 --> 1:34:28.070 who were previously employed through a DSP, before offering to 1:34:28.110 --> 1:34:33.000 hire any other workers as employees. Brendan Griffith, president of 1:34:33.080 --> 1:34:37.300 the New York City Central Labor Council, put it really well, quote, 1:34:37.840 --> 1:34:41.460 to be clear, When these companies raise the alarm of 1:34:41.560 --> 1:34:46.240 fewer jobs, higher prices, or service reductions, they are describing 1:34:46.479 --> 1:34:50.940 choices that they may make, not in the best interest 1:34:51.040 --> 1:34:54.740 of consumers and workers, but to protect their bottom line. 1:34:55.460 --> 1:34:59.980 And of course, any potential job loss would be the 1:35:00.090 --> 1:35:04.800 choice of Amazon, and not because of this bill. And 1:35:04.880 --> 1:35:09.139 it's not like Amazon doesn't already regularly lay off these workers. 1:35:09.760 --> 1:35:14.229 According to a Teamsters report, since 2018, Amazon has closed 1:35:14.229 --> 1:35:18.490 35 DSPs in New York State, resulting in the loss 1:35:18.550 --> 1:35:23.370 of over 3,500 jobs. And that was without the bill, 1:35:23.770 --> 1:35:28.389 which would, of course, give those workers more protections. Remember, 1:35:28.689 --> 1:35:34.389 Amazon fired over 150 DSP drivers last year, in New 1:35:34.430 --> 1:35:39.730 York City after they unionized. The most insidious part of 1:35:39.770 --> 1:35:45.990 this delivery service partner subcontractor arrangement is how it allows 1:35:46.220 --> 1:35:50.260 Amazon to have this sort of workaround for union busting. 1:35:50.939 --> 1:35:54.599 When these last mile delivery workers attempt to unionize, rather 1:35:54.640 --> 1:35:57.860 than recognize or deal with the union, Amazon can just 1:35:58.240 --> 1:36:02.470 cut off the entire subcontractor, putting all those workers out 1:36:02.490 --> 1:36:06.060 of jobs, while Amazon can just switch to a new 1:36:06.420 --> 1:36:12.930 non-union subcontractor. And this is apparently legal because these workers 1:36:13.250 --> 1:36:19.550 aren't directly employed by Amazon. So in effect, it's illegal 1:36:19.710 --> 1:36:24.389 union busting without actually having to do illegal union busting. 1:36:25.250 --> 1:36:28.080 So you can see why this model is so attractive 1:36:28.160 --> 1:36:33.340 to these corporations. Because using these delivery subcontractors gives you 1:36:33.360 --> 1:36:38.460 this little loophole to avoid negotiating with a union. And 1:36:38.520 --> 1:36:41.099 it's insane that they're able to get away with this. 1:36:41.680 --> 1:36:44.910 As much as they fearmonger about how if there's unions, 1:36:45.290 --> 1:36:50.830 deliveries will cost each household 600 more dollars, that doesn't 1:36:51.010 --> 1:36:54.810 seem to be the case for UPS, who is still 1:36:54.850 --> 1:37:00.330 profitable after its unionized delivery drivers secured pay raises in 1:37:00.350 --> 1:37:06.200 their 2023 contract. To quote the famously socialist outlet, The 1:37:06.280 --> 1:37:10.960 Wall Street Journal, quote, a large body of research has 1:37:11.020 --> 1:37:15.300 shown that when companies stop employing their own workers for 1:37:15.360 --> 1:37:19.500 tasks and instead push those jobs out to smaller firms 1:37:19.640 --> 1:37:25.389 or to freelancers, wages and other job protections tend to decline. 1:37:25.930 --> 1:37:30.410 The New York bill is, quote, very innovative, said Paul Osterman, 1:37:30.890 --> 1:37:35.830 a professor emeritus at MIT, and the author of Disposable Workers, 1:37:36.479 --> 1:37:40.240 a new book on the transformation of employment. His own 1:37:40.320 --> 1:37:45.400 surveys of work arrangements indicate about 12% of U.S. workers 1:37:46.000 --> 1:37:51.880 are contractors employed by intermediaries. So as I've already suggested, 1:37:51.900 --> 1:37:57.630 this model is a much bigger problem than just Amazon. 1:37:58.770 --> 1:38:02.509 Amazon has also threatened that if the Delivery Protection Act passes, 1:38:03.450 --> 1:38:08.160 it would force them to, quote, consider relocating delivery operations 1:38:08.460 --> 1:38:13.340 outside the city. Specifically, Amazon has threatened to move its 1:38:13.479 --> 1:38:18.880 distribution centers to New Jersey, which they say would extend 1:38:18.979 --> 1:38:24.170 delivery times for New York City residents. But then in August, 1:38:24.810 --> 1:38:29.970 New Jersey sued Amazon, alleging their use of last-mile contracts 1:38:30.620 --> 1:38:34.400 is illegal, with New Jersey claiming, per the Wall Street Journal, quote, 1:38:34.960 --> 1:38:38.910 the e-commerce giant illegally used its dominance over its package 1:38:38.950 --> 1:38:43.530 delivery network to suppress wages and working conditions for thousands 1:38:43.630 --> 1:38:49.140 of delivery drivers while preventing them from organizing. Amazon has 1:38:49.200 --> 1:38:53.620 said the complaint is, quote, not grounded in fact, unquote. 1:38:54.500 --> 1:38:58.200 So I think it's unlikely Amazon will actually move all 1:38:58.240 --> 1:39:01.600 of their facilities from New York City to New Jersey, 1:39:01.620 --> 1:39:04.110 because one, companies never actually move out of New York. 1:39:04.610 --> 1:39:07.410 And two, doesn't seem like they're going to have much 1:39:07.550 --> 1:39:10.950 more luck in New Jersey anyway, if the state is 1:39:11.050 --> 1:39:15.430 claiming the very same things that lawmakers have here in 1:39:15.510 --> 1:39:18.750 New York, which has prompted, quote, the Delivery Protection Act. 1:39:19.810 --> 1:39:23.150 But that's the type of propaganda that Amazon is running 1:39:23.630 --> 1:39:26.630 to try to push back on the bill. And we 1:39:26.729 --> 1:39:31.080 mentioned Amazon running ads, but they're not just running ads. 1:39:31.660 --> 1:39:36.540 Around July, I got sent this very oddly worded survey 1:39:36.700 --> 1:39:41.760 from Amazon with all these leading questions about like, would 1:39:41.840 --> 1:39:45.580 I support a bill that made my deliveries more expensive? 1:39:46.150 --> 1:39:50.090 take longer or force independent delivery drivers to work for 1:39:50.130 --> 1:39:54.350 big corporations. It had maybe like 10 to 15 of 1:39:54.430 --> 1:39:58.360 these questions that were all phrased very oddly so that 1:39:58.400 --> 1:40:02.800 they could engineer specific responses so that Amazon could have 1:40:02.820 --> 1:40:06.180 a survey that shows like X number of New Yorkers 1:40:06.260 --> 1:40:08.990 think this bill is a bad idea or think a 1:40:09.050 --> 1:40:11.809 bill that would do XYZ is a bad idea. 1:40:11.830 --> 1:40:14.350 You know, they've been sending those all over. People keep 1:40:14.370 --> 1:40:16.800 texting me. I got the survey, Matt, or sending me 1:40:16.840 --> 1:40:20.100 pictures of the mailers. But in reality, we're actually doing 1:40:20.120 --> 1:40:22.650 the work and knocking on, I think we've knocked over 1:40:22.650 --> 1:40:26.490 9,000 doors now. And you actually talk to New Yorkers 1:40:26.710 --> 1:40:30.110 about the bill. It's extremely popular. Olivia and I have 1:40:30.150 --> 1:40:33.490 both done a lot of canvassing for electoral candidates, people 1:40:33.530 --> 1:40:36.970 like Mayor Mamdani. And it's a lot harder to go 1:40:37.010 --> 1:40:39.550 canvass for electoral candidates. There's a lot of people who 1:40:39.570 --> 1:40:41.030 tell you, get out of my face. 1:40:41.510 --> 1:40:42.210 But when you knock on. 1:40:42.189 --> 1:40:43.950 A door and say, this is a bill that's going 1:40:43.979 --> 1:40:46.540 to get Amazon under control, it's going to help these 1:40:46.580 --> 1:40:51.500 workers organize unions and protect their rights, people are immediately 1:40:51.560 --> 1:40:53.800 on board. Sometimes all you have to say is, this 1:40:53.860 --> 1:40:56.720 bill is about controlling Amazon. People are like, where do 1:40:56.780 --> 1:40:59.510 I sign? So New Yorkers in reality are really ready 1:40:59.600 --> 1:41:03.070 to find a way to rein this company in that's 1:41:03.110 --> 1:41:05.269 more and more controlling every aspect of their lives. So 1:41:06.030 --> 1:41:10.500 don't worry. The survey, notwithstanding, the bill... seems to be 1:41:10.540 --> 1:41:13.429 extremely popular when anyone actually learns what it does. 1:41:24.800 --> 1:41:29.260 Part of Amazon's fear around the Delivery Protection Act could 1:41:29.280 --> 1:41:33.860 also be due to the Mamdani administration's aggressive approach to 1:41:33.979 --> 1:41:38.790 enforcing worker protection's and cracking down on big corporations exploiting 1:41:38.870 --> 1:41:43.950 delivery workers. Last month, Mayor Mamdani and the Department of 1:41:44.030 --> 1:41:52.040 Consumer and Worker Protection announced a record $ 131. 5 million settlement 1:41:52.560 --> 1:41:59.200 from DoorDash for underpaying or even not paying their delivery workers. 1:42:00.180 --> 1:42:04.240 This is the largest labor enforcement action in New York 1:42:04.320 --> 1:42:11.520 City history. the largest labor settlement in municipal history. Over 1:42:11.520 --> 1:42:17.939 $ 115 million will go directly to more than 260,000 workers 1:42:18.380 --> 1:42:22.250 who were denied the pay that they earned, with DoorDash 1:42:22.390 --> 1:42:28.049 paying an additional $ 16 million in civil penalties, including funding 1:42:28.210 --> 1:42:32.830 to build a city and worker-run wage theft monitoring tool 1:42:33.330 --> 1:42:39.390 to keep DoorDash accountable. Here's the deputy mayor for economic justice, 1:42:39.689 --> 1:42:40.429 Julie Su. 1:42:40.870 --> 1:42:45.099 DoorDash built a system that was quietly leaving out categories 1:42:45.140 --> 1:42:49.120 of trips and on-call time so the real amount of 1:42:49.220 --> 1:42:55.059 work by deliverystas wasn't counted. Worse, that practice was hidden 1:42:55.120 --> 1:42:59.170 from workers, making it almost impossible for them to know 1:42:59.470 --> 1:43:00.630 when they were underpaid. 1:43:01.850 --> 1:43:04.340 Some were paid late, some weren't paid at all. 1:43:05.100 --> 1:43:09.200 This historic settlement is not just the result of increased 1:43:09.280 --> 1:43:12.479 investment in the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection by 1:43:12.580 --> 1:43:18.200 Mayor Mamdani, but also the tireless work of deliveristas, advocates, 1:43:18.520 --> 1:43:24.450 and organizers at the Workers' Justice Project. Affected DoorDash workers 1:43:25.090 --> 1:43:28.950 don't even have to file a claim. The Department of 1:43:29.070 --> 1:43:34.410 Consumer and Worker Protection has already identified all individuals owed 1:43:34.490 --> 1:43:39.010 money through their analysis of DoorDash's records, and will reach 1:43:39.070 --> 1:43:42.880 out to workers later this month. The department poured through 1:43:43.020 --> 1:43:47.160 terabytes of pay data to discover the huge magnitude of 1:43:47.220 --> 1:43:51.160 wage theft and systemic violations of New York City's delivery 1:43:51.220 --> 1:43:53.840 worker laws, like the minimum pay rate. 1:43:54.660 --> 1:43:58.460 Now, two months ago, Tony Hsu, the CEO of DoorDash, 1:43:58.880 --> 1:44:02.400 gave business owners a piece of advice. A CEO, he said, 1:44:02.479 --> 1:44:07.160 has to take the greedy algorithm and keep going all 1:44:07.220 --> 1:44:10.820 the way to see if there is more. In computer science, 1:44:10.880 --> 1:44:14.080 a greedy algorithm is one that makes the most optimized, 1:44:14.620 --> 1:44:19.610 best short-term outcome choice at every step and never weighs 1:44:19.830 --> 1:44:23.950 the consequences. New York City and the tens of thousands 1:44:23.990 --> 1:44:26.750 of delivery workers who call our city home have reckoned 1:44:26.790 --> 1:44:29.620 with greed as a business model for far too long. 1:44:30.570 --> 1:44:34.420 For years, DoorDash failed to count every hour worked by 1:44:34.460 --> 1:44:37.760 delivery workers. This was not a rounding error or an 1:44:37.939 --> 1:44:42.700 accidental mistake. In 2023, when the city began enforcing a 1:44:42.780 --> 1:44:47.220 minimum pay rate for delivery workers, DoorDash left time out 1:44:47.240 --> 1:44:50.960 of the count. Time on canceled trips and trips that 1:44:51.020 --> 1:44:55.800 crossed city limits. Investigators at our incredible Department of Consumer 1:44:55.820 --> 1:44:59.860 and Worker Protection went through terabytes of DoorDash's own data. 1:45:00.890 --> 1:45:07.470 After analyzing 152 million payments and 110 million hours of work, 1:45:08.070 --> 1:45:13.229 they arrived at a staggering conclusion. DoorDash had underpaid more 1:45:13.270 --> 1:45:18.900 than 260,000 delivery workers across New York City between April 1:45:18.979 --> 1:45:23.100 of 2022 and June of 2026. 1:45:23.540 --> 1:45:27.880 According to the mayor's office, these workers will receive compensation 1:45:27.960 --> 1:45:34.189 calculated at approximately... 200% of the amount that they were underpaid. 1:45:35.100 --> 1:45:38.860 Just last year, DoorDash spent over a million dollars to 1:45:38.900 --> 1:45:43.340 prevent Mamdani from being elected, and now they must pay 1:45:43.620 --> 1:45:51.850 over $ 131 million. After Mayor Mamdani announced this settlement, DoorDash 1:45:52.030 --> 1:45:58.670 took to social media to post a Notes app-style apology, reading, quote, 1:45:59.530 --> 1:46:04.750 We messed up. Our mistakes meant some NYC dashers were 1:46:04.870 --> 1:46:09.980 underpaid or paid late. That's unacceptable, and we're deeply sorry 1:46:10.040 --> 1:46:13.919 to the dashers we let down. We've reached a settlement 1:46:13.960 --> 1:46:16.019 with the city of New York, and we will make 1:46:16.080 --> 1:46:20.340 this right by paying every impacted dasher the amounts they 1:46:20.439 --> 1:46:20.940 are owed. 1:46:21.240 --> 1:46:21.860 Unquote. 1:46:22.490 --> 1:46:27.530 Bitch, you stole over a hundred million dollars. That's a 1:46:27.630 --> 1:46:34.500 big oopsie. You didn't just let some dashers down. Per 1:46:34.660 --> 1:46:39.940 the mayor's office, quote, this enforcement action builds on the 1:46:39.979 --> 1:46:45.570 Mamdani administration's broader effort to vigorously enforce the laws that 1:46:45.630 --> 1:46:50.189 protect delivery workers. The administration has already secured more than 1:46:50.189 --> 1:46:54.339 $ 104 million in additional tips by cracking down on deceptive 1:46:54.500 --> 1:47:01.460 app design. and $ 725 million in increased wages for delivery 1:47:01.500 --> 1:47:08.440 workers since January, unquote. Mayor Mamdani ended the DoorDash announcement 1:47:08.960 --> 1:47:11.500 with a warning to other companies. 1:47:12.120 --> 1:47:14.750 And to any corporation that has built a business model 1:47:15.150 --> 1:47:19.830 on greedy algorithms and worker exploitation, consider this your notice. 1:47:20.550 --> 1:47:23.410 If you keep trying to rip off New Yorkers, we 1:47:23.450 --> 1:47:26.600 will be happy to make history again. This is New 1:47:26.640 --> 1:47:30.680 York City, where hard work pays and greed will cost you. 1:47:31.240 --> 1:47:31.540 Thank you. 1:47:32.740 --> 1:47:37.960 About a month earlier, on August 10th, Mehramdani publicly backed 1:47:38.040 --> 1:47:42.160 the Delivery Protection Act and made a slick little video 1:47:42.220 --> 1:47:45.380 explaining what it is and why it's important for workers. 1:47:46.340 --> 1:47:47.440 To quote the mayor. 1:47:47.560 --> 1:47:52.950 Quote, corporations like Amazon build billion-dollar business models that by 1:47:53.110 --> 1:47:58.040 insulating themselves from accountability through a system of exploitative subcontracting. 1:47:58.840 --> 1:48:01.600 As last mile delivery centers have exploded across New York, 1:48:02.140 --> 1:48:06.400 so too have traffic accidents and worker injuries. The Delivery 1:48:06.439 --> 1:48:10.540 Protection Act is a common sense regulation that protects delivery workers, 1:48:10.700 --> 1:48:14.550 safeguards the communities where these facilities operate, and ensures that 1:48:14.610 --> 1:48:19.090 the corporations benefiting from workers' labor are responsible for the 1:48:19.130 --> 1:48:23.400 consequences of of their business practices. New Yorkers should not 1:48:23.439 --> 1:48:27.189 be forced to subsidize corporate profits with less safe streets 1:48:27.630 --> 1:48:31.469 and more precarious jobs. The people that make these companies 1:48:31.570 --> 1:48:36.250 run deserve dignity, stability, and a safe workplace. It's time 1:48:36.330 --> 1:48:40.170 to end the subcontracting model that puts profits over people 1:48:40.189 --> 1:48:44.110 and build an economy that works for working New Yorkers. 1:48:44.670 --> 1:48:47.250 One of the best things we've had is we've had 1:48:47.270 --> 1:48:51.089 the support of the mayor. Mayor Zahra Mamdani and Deputy 1:48:51.110 --> 1:48:55.300 Mayor Julie Hsu come out really strongly in favor of 1:48:55.360 --> 1:48:58.620 the bill. There was like amazing press about that. 1:48:58.660 --> 1:49:00.220 So a lot of earned media around that. 1:49:00.760 --> 1:49:04.100 And a lot of our coalition members have also been 1:49:04.140 --> 1:49:07.570 hard at work doing a lot of additional research putting 1:49:07.610 --> 1:49:10.769 out really amazing press. In fact, just this week, there 1:49:10.790 --> 1:49:13.570 was a wonderful story that featured the work of our 1:49:14.010 --> 1:49:18.390 friends in Align. They did some really great research locating 1:49:18.410 --> 1:49:21.979 like all of the different traffic violations and parking violations 1:49:22.500 --> 1:49:26.340 Amazon has incurred. Because this bill isn't just a worker 1:49:26.400 --> 1:49:29.580 safety bill. This is a street safety bill and a 1:49:29.660 --> 1:49:34.080 climate bill. You know, Our SIO, Tiffany, loves to talk 1:49:34.140 --> 1:49:38.980 about how this last mile delivery sector is kind of 1:49:39.000 --> 1:49:40.219 like the Wild West. 1:49:40.300 --> 1:49:41.719 It's just exploded. 1:49:42.560 --> 1:49:44.849 And there really isn't a whole lot of rules of 1:49:44.860 --> 1:49:47.790 the road, of guidelines, of regulation. And so they're just 1:49:47.890 --> 1:49:52.010 kind of running roughshod. And this really uses the power 1:49:52.229 --> 1:49:57.310 of the city municipal legislation to really regulate in a 1:49:57.350 --> 1:50:01.400 very sensible way how these businesses should operate. for the 1:50:01.420 --> 1:50:04.940 safety of workers, for the safety of consumers, and for 1:50:04.960 --> 1:50:06.320 everybody out on the streets of the city. 1:50:07.300 --> 1:50:11.700 As Matt from DSA mentioned earlier this episode, after sending 1:50:11.760 --> 1:50:15.240 over 100 letters and knocking on thousands of doors, City 1:50:15.260 --> 1:50:20.219 Councilmember Rita Joseph in Flatbush almost immediately flipped and signed 1:50:20.380 --> 1:50:23.320 on to the bill this past August. But she's not 1:50:23.350 --> 1:50:26.870 the only one who's changed tune since DSA and the 1:50:26.910 --> 1:50:29.810 Teamsters upped their organizing this summer. 1:50:30.250 --> 1:50:32.850 We've had a big influence since we started the canvassing operation. 1:50:33.050 --> 1:50:35.650 I think in New York politics at this point, people 1:50:35.689 --> 1:50:37.850 know what it means when a bunch of people with 1:50:37.870 --> 1:50:40.660 DSA signs start showing up in your neighborhood and knocking doors. 1:50:40.780 --> 1:50:43.680 People get very freaked out very quickly, which is good 1:50:43.860 --> 1:50:47.519 for us. So like I said, when we knocked Rita 1:50:47.560 --> 1:50:51.060 Joseph's door, she decided to get onto the bill right away. 1:50:51.090 --> 1:50:55.889 We also then got another council member named Sean O'Gray 1:50:56.110 --> 1:50:58.250 to flip onto the bill as well, I think the 1:50:58.290 --> 1:51:01.660 same day. It was also right around when Mayor Mondani 1:51:01.700 --> 1:51:03.929 put his video out. So I'm sure for a lot 1:51:03.939 --> 1:51:05.990 of council members, it was really time to get on 1:51:06.050 --> 1:51:10.110 board time between us and the mayor. But then since then, 1:51:10.130 --> 1:51:13.750 we also were able to move council member Camilla Hanks 1:51:14.570 --> 1:51:16.310 onto the bill as well. And she's really important to 1:51:16.350 --> 1:51:19.440 get on because her district is actually on Staten Island 1:51:19.960 --> 1:51:22.180 and overlaps a lot of the Amazon organizing going on 1:51:22.200 --> 1:51:24.160 there that goes all the way back to the Amazon district. 1:51:24.520 --> 1:51:27.270 labor union and the ALU. So it was really important 1:51:27.290 --> 1:51:29.330 for us to make sure that Staten Island was part 1:51:29.370 --> 1:51:31.190 of our plans because those workers have been in the 1:51:31.229 --> 1:51:34.229 Amazon fight longer than anyone. And we're really proud of 1:51:34.270 --> 1:51:36.070 that one as well. So in total, in the last 1:51:36.670 --> 1:51:38.510 two and a half months, we flipped three people onto 1:51:38.530 --> 1:51:41.810 the bill. And we've also really developed a kind of 1:51:41.890 --> 1:51:44.990 citywide feeling that this bill is very, very important for workers' rights. 1:51:45.070 --> 1:51:47.310 And we really see more and more people talking about 1:51:47.350 --> 1:51:48.930 it now. And I think that that has a lot 1:51:48.950 --> 1:51:50.530 to do with the publicity we've given it over the 1:51:50.550 --> 1:51:53.599 last couple months. So You know, again, we already have 1:51:53.620 --> 1:51:57.439 a supermajority. Now it's really just all about getting Speaker 1:51:57.479 --> 1:51:59.340 Menon to actually put it for a vote. And if 1:51:59.380 --> 1:52:02.010 she does, we're extremely confident that it will pass. 1:52:02.810 --> 1:52:06.309 With a supermajority in city council, now the pressure is 1:52:06.430 --> 1:52:09.250 on Speaker Julie Menon to call the bill to a vote. 1:52:09.950 --> 1:52:14.010 Last Saturday, DSA canvassed Speaker Menon's district in the Upper 1:52:14.090 --> 1:52:18.210 East Side, and they plan to do another neighborhood canvas 1:52:18.450 --> 1:52:19.410 sometime next week. 1:52:19.729 --> 1:52:22.860 We want to get the bill passed. on November 12th. 1:52:23.060 --> 1:52:25.690 So that's the new deadline. So we're going to be 1:52:25.700 --> 1:52:28.030 doing more canvassing, hopefully having more rallies. 1:52:28.850 --> 1:52:32.469 DSA also has an online tool to help you send 1:52:32.590 --> 1:52:36.710 your city council member or Speaker Menon a letter expressing 1:52:36.750 --> 1:52:39.630 your support for the Delivery Protection Act. 1:52:40.090 --> 1:52:41.809 You can send a letter to your council member or 1:52:41.850 --> 1:52:44.139 to Speaker Menon. I think sending it to Speaker Menon 1:52:44.150 --> 1:52:46.059 at this point is the most important thing. So anyone 1:52:46.100 --> 1:52:49.340 who's a New York listener should definitely do that. 1:52:50.040 --> 1:52:54.090 In terms of rallies, DSA is planning a big last 1:52:54.170 --> 1:52:58.350 hurrah in support of this bill outside City Hall on 1:52:58.550 --> 1:53:02.650 October 22nd, which will be the last city council meeting 1:53:02.770 --> 1:53:06.730 before November when organizers intend for the bill to be 1:53:06.850 --> 1:53:07.849 brought to a vote. 1:53:08.450 --> 1:53:11.139 So we're going to have a big showing right outside 1:53:11.160 --> 1:53:15.639 City Hall on October 22nd to really demonstrate our power. 1:53:16.520 --> 1:53:19.380 and really put out the call out there for this 1:53:19.420 --> 1:53:23.220 bill to be agendized and brought to the floor for 1:53:23.240 --> 1:53:25.019 a vote on November 12th. 1:53:25.500 --> 1:53:27.920 Yeah, so if anyone wants to come out and canvas 1:53:28.000 --> 1:53:31.140 or come to a rally, this is really the final push, 1:53:31.320 --> 1:53:34.500 and we're feeling pretty confident that we need to end strong. 1:53:35.700 --> 1:53:39.380 The Delivery Protection Act could be the wedge that cracks 1:53:39.620 --> 1:53:44.179 open Amazon. By strengthening workers' ability to organize through closing 1:53:44.240 --> 1:53:49.760 the illegal union-busting loophole, and ensuring that corporations like Amazon 1:53:49.820 --> 1:53:53.620 or FedEx can no longer get away with using third-party 1:53:53.680 --> 1:53:58.740 shell companies to shield themselves from liability. Samuel Levin, the 1:53:58.780 --> 1:54:02.300 commissioner of the Department of Consumer and Worker Protection, put 1:54:02.320 --> 1:54:07.070 it plainly, quote, The Delivery Protection Act affirms a simple idea. 1:54:07.689 --> 1:54:10.810 Those who profit from our labor and public spaces are 1:54:11.250 --> 1:54:14.850 must also be responsible for the people and communities that 1:54:14.950 --> 1:54:21.030 make it possible, unquote. Chipping away at Amazon's vast network 1:54:21.189 --> 1:54:26.630 of delivery subcontractors could also have national ramifications. If the 1:54:26.650 --> 1:54:29.670 Delivery Protection Act passes in New York City, it could 1:54:29.710 --> 1:54:33.170 provide a template for other cities across the country to 1:54:33.230 --> 1:54:37.250 start to regulate Amazon to protect last mile delivery workers 1:54:37.270 --> 1:54:43.050 and and shut down the hyper-exploitative subcontractor model dominating huge 1:54:43.240 --> 1:54:47.010 sectors of our economy. And if we succeed here in 1:54:47.050 --> 1:54:50.210 New York, surely it can be done elsewhere. 1:54:50.230 --> 1:54:52.910 In New York State DSA, we really feel strongly that 1:54:52.950 --> 1:54:56.970 taking on Amazon is a really important existential battle for 1:54:57.350 --> 1:55:00.210 socialists and the labor movement. So we see this as 1:55:00.230 --> 1:55:03.650 really the first step in using the power we have 1:55:03.670 --> 1:55:07.490 in canvassing and the electoral arena, but also our ability 1:55:07.510 --> 1:55:10.510 to mass mobilize people to figure out a way to 1:55:10.590 --> 1:55:13.680 rein Amazon in and really help the labor movement take 1:55:13.690 --> 1:55:17.820 it on because it's more and more infiltrating every sector 1:55:17.840 --> 1:55:20.420 of the economy. They're going into entertainment. They are also 1:55:20.480 --> 1:55:25.560 going into groceries. They're going into web technologies and AI. 1:55:25.620 --> 1:55:28.140 They're really everywhere. Set to be the first company to 1:55:28.160 --> 1:55:30.820 make a trillion dollars in profit. And if we're going 1:55:30.840 --> 1:55:34.620 to have a socialist future in New York and in America, 1:55:34.640 --> 1:55:38.710 really anywhere, we need to be Amazon and get it 1:55:38.790 --> 1:55:40.750 organized in the same way that they had to organize 1:55:41.250 --> 1:55:44.810 steel or the auto industry in the 30s. The fight 1:55:44.870 --> 1:55:47.250 now really does have to go through Amazon if we're 1:55:47.270 --> 1:55:49.670 going to see the socialist future we're all fighting for. 1:55:49.690 --> 1:55:52.480 Yeah. 1:55:52.810 --> 1:55:55.460 And I would just add, you know, for me especially, 1:55:55.480 --> 1:55:58.640 and I think for a lot of DSA members, what 1:55:58.680 --> 1:56:01.740 makes the DSA difference isn't just, you know, that we 1:56:01.920 --> 1:56:05.270 are taking on a big corporation and the way that 1:56:05.280 --> 1:56:09.810 the legislation really empowers workers. It's how we campaign. 1:56:09.930 --> 1:56:12.210 It's literally the way in which we fight. 1:56:12.810 --> 1:56:15.350 We are doing it, as Matt said, using all of 1:56:15.390 --> 1:56:18.070 the same tools that helped us win the mayoralty and 1:56:18.110 --> 1:56:21.970 helped us win big in recent primaries. It's just literally 1:56:22.030 --> 1:56:25.530 the basics of organizing. We are just talking to people. 1:56:26.190 --> 1:56:29.700 And lo and behold, as Matt said, none of them 1:56:29.740 --> 1:56:32.690 like Amazon. They want it to be regulated. You know, 1:56:32.710 --> 1:56:35.970 that is the DSA difference. We organize people. We have 1:56:36.490 --> 1:56:40.350 member-led and worker-led campaigns. That is transformative. 1:56:41.110 --> 1:56:43.950 To keep up with the Delivery Protection Act, you can 1:56:44.010 --> 1:56:50.510 follow NYC DSA on Instagram or NYC DSA Labor. As mentioned, 1:56:50.670 --> 1:56:54.370 there will be a canvas in Julie Menon's district sometime 1:56:54.430 --> 1:56:59.430 next week and a, hopefully, final rally on October 22nd. 1:57:11.020 --> 1:57:13.420 Hello, everyone, and welcome to It Could Happen Here. My 1:57:13.440 --> 1:57:16.410 name is Dana Al-Kurd. I'm a researcher and analyst of 1:57:16.450 --> 1:57:20.210 Arab and Palestinian politics. Today, I'm talking with Yara Asi, 1:57:20.310 --> 1:57:23.370 who is a Palestinian scholar, author, and public health researcher 1:57:23.910 --> 1:57:27.290 studying how conflict, structural violence, and political systems shape health 1:57:27.330 --> 1:57:30.600 and human security. And she's also a non-resident fellow at 1:57:30.620 --> 1:57:34.110 the Arab Center Washington, where I'm also a non-resident fellow. 1:57:34.430 --> 1:57:36.690 And she's been doing a lot of excellent work highlighting 1:57:36.750 --> 1:57:40.730 the health impacts of Israeli policies and American policies in 1:57:40.750 --> 1:57:43.770 the Middle East generally, but also particularly in Israel-Palestine. So 1:57:43.790 --> 1:57:46.419 today we're going to talk about what are the health 1:57:46.460 --> 1:57:49.140 conditions in Gaza? I think that we have seen a 1:57:49.280 --> 1:57:53.140 lot of the spectacular violence. We understand and even the 1:57:53.180 --> 1:57:57.160 most unaware understand the degree to which Gaza has been devastated. 1:57:57.630 --> 1:57:59.350 But she breaks down for us what that looks like 1:57:59.410 --> 1:58:01.960 and what are the policies that are being used to 1:58:02.460 --> 1:58:05.160 attack Palestinian health in Gaza and in the West Bank 1:58:05.620 --> 1:58:10.340 and then what it means for the Palestinian people. to 1:58:10.380 --> 1:58:14.890 be so de-developed, not only economically, but at every sector, 1:58:14.930 --> 1:58:19.030 including the health sector. It's a very bleak episode. None 1:58:19.050 --> 1:58:22.710 of my episodes are good, but this one is particularly 1:58:23.150 --> 1:58:26.730 hard to listen to. There's also a mention of sexual violence. 1:58:27.270 --> 1:58:29.220 Not in detail, of course, but I do want to 1:58:29.260 --> 1:58:32.580 just put that out there for listeners as fair warning, 1:58:33.000 --> 1:58:36.560 because that is a very triggering conversation, regardless even if 1:58:36.640 --> 1:58:40.760 it is at the simplest level of detail. But without 1:58:40.800 --> 1:58:45.810 further ado, this is Yara about... health impacts of Israeli 1:58:45.840 --> 1:58:47.300 policy on the Palestinian people. 1:58:47.760 --> 1:58:48.400 Thank you for listening. 1:58:51.500 --> 1:58:53.320 Yoda, thank you so much for being on the show. 1:58:54.240 --> 1:58:55.100 Thank you for having me. 1:58:55.520 --> 1:58:57.300 So I want to start, we're going to talk both 1:58:57.360 --> 1:58:59.480 about Gaza and the West Bank, but I want to 1:58:59.500 --> 1:59:02.580 start with Gaza at the beginning here. Could you give 1:59:02.640 --> 1:59:05.260 us a rundown of what health conditions are like in 1:59:05.300 --> 1:59:06.060 Gaza right now? 1:59:06.590 --> 1:59:07.430 Yeah, absolutely. 1:59:07.470 --> 1:59:09.330 You know, this has been obviously the focus of a 1:59:09.390 --> 1:59:12.310 lot of health research over the past three years since 1:59:12.330 --> 1:59:14.790 the beginning of the genocide. And for good reason, because 1:59:14.850 --> 1:59:18.330 it's kind of a microcosm of every possible public health 1:59:19.010 --> 1:59:23.190 disaster you could imagine in a single, very small, very 1:59:23.250 --> 1:59:27.640 populated setting. So just, you know, some some top line numbers. 1:59:27.690 --> 1:59:31.720 We know that at the very least, 74,000 Palestinians have 1:59:31.780 --> 1:59:36.910 been killed since October 7th. And epidemiological projections estimate that 1:59:36.930 --> 1:59:40.230 the number is likely much higher, especially when you add 1:59:40.250 --> 1:59:44.680 in all of those that have died from starvation, malnutrition 1:59:45.280 --> 1:59:47.760 or lack of access to health care because they had 1:59:47.840 --> 1:59:51.680 cancer or they needed a heart surgery or brain surgery 1:59:51.720 --> 1:59:56.610 or something. We know that at least 20,000, around 20,000 1:59:56.610 --> 2:00:00.230 people in Gaza, many of whom are children, require immediate 2:00:00.270 --> 2:00:03.070 medical evacuations for some sort of procedure. 2:00:03.600 --> 2:00:05.330 Unrelated typically to trauma. 2:00:05.350 --> 2:00:09.170 We're talking a lot of cancer cases, high-risk pregnancies, complex 2:00:09.210 --> 2:00:11.530 surgeries that they can no longer get in the Gaza 2:00:11.550 --> 2:00:16.010 Strip because the healthcare system has been essentially decimated. As 2:00:16.090 --> 2:00:20.220 of this past month, there's also more than 100,000 injuries. 2:00:20.300 --> 2:00:26.220 Many of those are life-changing injuries, amputations, nerve damage, spinal damage, 2:00:26.280 --> 2:00:31.160 brain damage that will require lifelong rehabilitation. And the obvious 2:00:31.220 --> 2:00:33.990 question is, Who's going to do that and who's going 2:00:34.030 --> 2:00:36.110 to pay for that and what's going to happen to 2:00:36.150 --> 2:00:40.510 those people? Less than half of Gaza's hospitals are even 2:00:40.590 --> 2:00:44.720 partially functioning. So prior to the genocide, Gaza had about 2:00:44.720 --> 2:00:48.780 36 hospitals, many of which offered a variety of services, 2:00:48.840 --> 2:00:52.340 but some of which were specialized, you know, cancer care, 2:00:52.600 --> 2:00:56.420 pediatric hospital. Now we're at a point where the hospitals 2:00:56.480 --> 2:00:59.720 that are even still open because so many were damaged, 2:00:59.860 --> 2:01:03.770 destroyed or just have no resources. are just basically able 2:01:03.810 --> 2:01:09.190 to do basic care, emergency care, triage, basic wound management. 2:01:09.710 --> 2:01:13.750 Israel is still restricting at the border medical supplies, you know, 2:01:13.930 --> 2:01:18.780 basic pharmaceuticals, medications, things that would be available in basically 2:01:18.860 --> 2:01:22.160 any other context on earth, even in low-income countries, are 2:01:22.200 --> 2:01:25.640 not available in the Gaza Strip. We know that 1,700 2:01:25.640 --> 2:01:28.510 health workers and humanitarian workers have been killed in Gaza. 2:01:29.020 --> 2:01:31.680 many of whom were directly targeted, either in their homes 2:01:31.780 --> 2:01:36.140 or in aid convoys. And, you know, it's an environmental disaster. 2:01:36.260 --> 2:01:39.300 So there's sewage in the streets. There's lack of clean water. 2:01:39.380 --> 2:01:40.720 There's... Rats. 2:01:41.140 --> 2:01:43.220 Rats, yes. Fighting people in their tents. 2:01:43.850 --> 2:01:46.330 God knows what floating in the air that people are 2:01:46.370 --> 2:01:50.470 inhaling on a daily basis, including babies and children. So 2:01:50.790 --> 2:01:53.930 it is just as bad as we imagine. And, you know, 2:01:54.210 --> 2:01:57.630 we're about, what, a year now from this quote-unquote ceasefire situation. 2:01:58.310 --> 2:02:02.030 More than 1,400 Palestinians in Gaza have been killed since the, 2:02:02.350 --> 2:02:03.590 quote unquote, ceasefire. 2:02:04.330 --> 2:02:05.110 And others are. 2:02:05.030 --> 2:02:08.710 Dying in other completely inhumane ways, such as building collapse 2:02:08.750 --> 2:02:12.090 that we saw a couple of weeks ago. Because many people, 2:02:12.170 --> 2:02:15.830 to avoid the rats and the cold, because winter is coming, 2:02:16.330 --> 2:02:19.550 have just decided, I'm going to go back to a structure, 2:02:19.830 --> 2:02:21.970 even if it is half collapsed. 2:02:21.990 --> 2:02:22.410 Damaged. 2:02:22.590 --> 2:02:23.930 Damaged. 2:02:23.950 --> 2:02:27.730 And we're unfortunately seeing that Some of these structures are 2:02:27.750 --> 2:02:31.530 collapsing with people and families inside. So, you know, although 2:02:31.590 --> 2:02:34.790 the health crisis in Gaza has kind of disappeared from 2:02:34.830 --> 2:02:39.130 the news as soon as the ceasefire process started, the 2:02:39.170 --> 2:02:41.839 health catastrophe is just as bad and it is not 2:02:41.880 --> 2:02:42.310 getting better. 2:02:42.810 --> 2:02:44.660 You know, I get stuck on this question. It's like, 2:02:45.080 --> 2:02:47.120 like you said, what's going to happen to these people, 2:02:47.260 --> 2:02:51.660 even if the ceasefire stopped killing people, which, you know, 2:02:51.680 --> 2:02:54.960 like you said, there are still people dying. Like, we 2:02:55.000 --> 2:02:59.490 need something so... dramatic. And it shouldn't be the case 2:02:59.530 --> 2:03:02.510 that the rest of the world steps in to pay 2:03:02.610 --> 2:03:07.880 for Israel's crimes. Anyway, that's a whole other issue. But 2:03:07.900 --> 2:03:10.100 I want to highlight some of the work that you 2:03:10.160 --> 2:03:13.340 have been doing for the Arab Center Washington in particular. 2:03:13.780 --> 2:03:15.420 And I'll put all of these in the show notes 2:03:15.480 --> 2:03:17.580 as well. But you wrote a piece for the Arab 2:03:17.600 --> 2:03:22.810 Center Washington about medical evacuation and that Israel is controlling 2:03:22.830 --> 2:03:24.530 this process and using it as a tool of war. 2:03:24.730 --> 2:03:27.580 So could you break down this argument for us and 2:03:27.620 --> 2:03:29.440 describe it to listeners who may not be as familiar. 2:03:29.460 --> 2:03:30.960 Yeah, absolutely. 2:03:31.100 --> 2:03:34.090 So due to the blockade in Gaza, we're talking the 2:03:34.200 --> 2:03:38.690 pre-2023 blockade, as well as the import restrictions in the 2:03:38.750 --> 2:03:41.810 West Bank that have kind of put a ceiling on 2:03:41.850 --> 2:03:44.370 what the local health systems are able to do. So 2:03:44.850 --> 2:03:48.700 certain medical equipment is banned by Israel from entering Gaza 2:03:48.760 --> 2:03:52.420 or the West Bank. And so the For decades, there 2:03:52.460 --> 2:03:55.620 has been a medical permit system that Palestinians have to 2:03:55.660 --> 2:03:59.680 apply to a permit, apply to Israel, mind you, receive 2:03:59.720 --> 2:04:03.820 permission from COGAT, paid for by the Palestinian Authority. So 2:04:03.940 --> 2:04:07.620 Israel is not paying for these medical evacuations. And they 2:04:07.690 --> 2:04:11.150 would leave the West Bank or Gaza to receive care, 2:04:11.690 --> 2:04:16.070 usually in East Jerusalem, sometimes in Israel, sometimes in neighboring 2:04:16.110 --> 2:04:20.940 countries like Jordan and Egypt. As of October 7th, Israel 2:04:20.980 --> 2:04:24.490 essentially closed that process that had existed. And this was 2:04:24.570 --> 2:04:27.190 an already broken process. And I could talk to you 2:04:27.290 --> 2:04:30.550 all day about that process before even all of the 2:04:31.070 --> 2:04:35.630 current situation. But what has happened is Israel is really 2:04:35.710 --> 2:04:39.810 tightly constricting who is able to leave the Gaza Strip, 2:04:39.990 --> 2:04:42.030 even to go to the West Bank, which is both 2:04:42.190 --> 2:04:45.850 occupied Palestinian territory and to receive the medical care that 2:04:45.870 --> 2:04:48.130 they need. I was just at an event last week 2:04:48.210 --> 2:04:51.550 where the CEO of Augusta Victoria Hospital, which is one 2:04:51.570 --> 2:04:54.380 of the main hospitals in the East Jerusalem Hospital Network, 2:04:54.900 --> 2:04:59.200 which is where many Palestinians go, especially for cancer care, 2:04:59.700 --> 2:05:02.180 he said he hasn't seen a single patient from Gaza 2:05:02.200 --> 2:05:05.800 since October 7th. The World Health Organization has a list of, again, 2:05:05.840 --> 2:05:09.480 approximately 20,000 cases of people that need to leave to 2:05:09.520 --> 2:05:13.570 receive care. And aside from the fact that Israel is 2:05:13.790 --> 2:05:17.630 often delaying approval of these permits, and anyone listening knows, 2:05:17.710 --> 2:05:20.680 when you have a health issue, you don't have infinite time. 2:05:21.080 --> 2:05:25.000 They're usually time-sensitive, especially if you're dealing with something like 2:05:25.180 --> 2:05:28.960 cancer or pregnancy, obviously very time-sensitive. 2:05:29.440 --> 2:05:31.810 If you delay... you're going to need. 2:05:31.810 --> 2:05:34.950 More care, greater care, and your prognosis is just worse. 2:05:34.990 --> 2:05:37.770 You're much more likely if you do have cancer. Wouldn't 2:05:37.790 --> 2:05:40.520 we rather treat it when you're stage one than when 2:05:40.540 --> 2:05:43.060 you're stage four and you're finally able to get the permit? 2:05:43.120 --> 2:05:46.540 So we are seeing people dying while waiting for these permits. 2:05:47.420 --> 2:05:50.230 We have heard reports that for some people who did 2:05:50.310 --> 2:05:53.380 manage to leave Gaza, to receive care, that they were 2:05:53.560 --> 2:05:57.720 being forced to sign forms that would basically not allow 2:05:57.740 --> 2:05:59.740 them back into Gaza. So yes, we will let you 2:05:59.800 --> 2:06:02.339 leave to get the care you need, but you can't return. 2:06:03.100 --> 2:06:06.000 And we're just seeing a blockage of this system. So 2:06:06.040 --> 2:06:08.580 there have been countries that have been willing to pay 2:06:08.680 --> 2:06:13.820 for and take these medical evacuees. But even in some 2:06:13.860 --> 2:06:17.630 of these recipient countries, we're talking dozens of cases, maybe 2:06:17.710 --> 2:06:21.050 hundreds in a few. We need thousands of cases here. 2:06:21.680 --> 2:06:23.380 And also at the same time, we need to think 2:06:23.440 --> 2:06:25.880 about what rebuilding the health system in Gaza looks like. 2:06:25.940 --> 2:06:29.980 So we don't need to engage in this medical permit 2:06:30.020 --> 2:06:33.610 system as broadly. Now that, I don't think we'll see 2:06:33.630 --> 2:06:37.410 that anytime soon. So Israel uses its control of the 2:06:37.470 --> 2:06:42.270 territories to affect health conditions inside, not just the health system, 2:06:42.310 --> 2:06:45.270 but also, as I said, sewage, lack of electricity, lack 2:06:45.310 --> 2:06:49.270 of nutritious food. Then it controls the process that Palestinians 2:06:49.310 --> 2:06:51.840 have to use to leave to get care, even if 2:06:51.880 --> 2:06:53.780 it is not Israel where they are going to get 2:06:53.820 --> 2:06:56.100 the care, even if Egypt is willing to accept them 2:06:56.240 --> 2:06:57.900 or Italy is willing to accept. 2:06:57.660 --> 2:06:59.460 Them or the UAE or whoever. 2:07:00.320 --> 2:07:04.760 Ultimately, this is an Israel permit process. And this has 2:07:04.800 --> 2:07:08.540 been a situation, again, since especially the blockade started in 2:07:08.540 --> 2:07:11.940 2006 in Gaza. And we have long argued that this 2:07:12.020 --> 2:07:14.540 is unjust to put someone's. 2:07:14.260 --> 2:07:16.700 Health in the hands of an occupying power. 2:07:17.400 --> 2:07:20.320 And what we saw over the years was not just 2:07:20.360 --> 2:07:23.180 denials going up of the need for these permits. 2:07:23.600 --> 2:07:26.330 But delays such that people. 2:07:26.130 --> 2:07:28.670 Are missing appointments, people are not getting timely care, and 2:07:28.690 --> 2:07:31.550 people are dying while waiting for services. So This has 2:07:31.590 --> 2:07:34.020 long been a really unjust process. And now we're kind 2:07:34.060 --> 2:07:39.400 of seeing the inevitable outcome of not challenging that process, 2:07:39.440 --> 2:07:43.200 the impunity that Israel has had in controlling basically every 2:07:43.380 --> 2:07:46.800 aspect of Palestinian health. And now we have people who 2:07:47.020 --> 2:07:49.540 are dying while waiting for chemotherapy. 2:07:49.770 --> 2:07:51.470 It's really inhumane. 2:07:51.490 --> 2:07:54.570 I think at least some of us who follow this 2:07:54.830 --> 2:07:58.770 more closely, at this point, it's ridiculous how accustomed we 2:07:58.810 --> 2:08:03.280 have become to the news item that says, this person 2:08:03.340 --> 2:08:05.320 died at a checkpoint waiting to go to the hospital. 2:08:05.720 --> 2:08:10.130 But this on a massive scale, it's truly dystopian, the 2:08:10.170 --> 2:08:15.110 degree to which Palestinians have no control over any part 2:08:15.410 --> 2:08:31.140 of their lives. It's heartbreaking and dystopian. Also in December, 2:08:31.610 --> 2:08:36.580 you wrote about how Israel suspended 37 humanitarian groups, including 2:08:36.820 --> 2:08:40.640 the Norwegian Refugee Council, the IRC. And these groups provided 2:08:40.720 --> 2:08:43.940 more than half of Gaza's food assistance and supported the 2:08:43.980 --> 2:08:47.780 hospitals as well, if I understand correctly. So what justification 2:08:47.820 --> 2:08:50.740 did Israel give for suspending these humanitarian groups and what 2:08:50.800 --> 2:08:51.660 is really going on here? 2:08:52.120 --> 2:08:54.880 So Israel has used the same justification that it has 2:08:55.040 --> 2:08:57.660 used basically for every restriction that it has placed on 2:08:57.700 --> 2:09:03.820 Palestinian life, which is this kind of blanket, unquestionable, 100% urgent, 2:09:03.900 --> 2:09:08.690 necessary security needs. So all of this, the checkpoints, the 2:09:08.730 --> 2:09:14.370 permit system, the incarceration of Palestinians, the, I mean, all 2:09:14.390 --> 2:09:18.030 of it, this whole system is justified by Israel again 2:09:18.090 --> 2:09:20.470 and its allies as this kind of, we need this 2:09:20.530 --> 2:09:24.000 for security. And so we have seen that with humanitarian 2:09:24.040 --> 2:09:27.080 organizations as well. Now, I won't get too into the 2:09:27.360 --> 2:09:31.310 preamble of this, but even before this new registration rules 2:09:31.350 --> 2:09:35.890 for humanitarian organizations, Israel has been working very hard to 2:09:36.010 --> 2:09:40.410 whittle away the power and access that humanitarian organizations have, 2:09:40.510 --> 2:09:43.690 perhaps most notably to your audience in UNRWA, which it 2:09:43.710 --> 2:09:49.410 has been discrediting, delegitimizing for decades. Because UNRWA is, for 2:09:49.470 --> 2:09:52.440 all its flaws, an organization that does recognize the rights 2:09:52.530 --> 2:09:57.180 of Palestinians to return to their homeland. And so Israel 2:09:57.280 --> 2:10:01.880 kind of placed all these accusations on UNRWA that members 2:10:01.940 --> 2:10:05.650 were aligned with October 7th or participated in October 7th. 2:10:06.340 --> 2:10:09.100 It caused a lot of countries to cut funding. Now, 2:10:09.240 --> 2:10:13.750 independent investigations have since found that Of course, these accusations 2:10:13.810 --> 2:10:17.280 were completely unfounded in most cases, and at the very 2:10:17.400 --> 2:10:22.040 least did not justify kind of dismantling the entire organization. 2:10:22.720 --> 2:10:26.260 But as it has happened many times, nothing really was done. 2:10:26.360 --> 2:10:28.440 I mean, this kind of happens. People say, well, gee, 2:10:28.460 --> 2:10:31.020 that's not fair. And then everyone just kind of moves on. 2:10:31.510 --> 2:10:35.430 So the inevitable has happened, which is now Israel, again, 2:10:35.450 --> 2:10:38.650 an occupying power, which is not in debate, according to 2:10:38.690 --> 2:10:43.760 international law. is trying to impose new restrictions on humanitarian 2:10:43.820 --> 2:10:47.420 organizations who are working, particularly in the Gaza Strip. And 2:10:47.580 --> 2:10:50.900 part of what they are requiring is the name and 2:10:51.040 --> 2:10:55.940 address of every local worker that works at these agencies. Now, 2:10:56.140 --> 2:10:58.990 let's think for two seconds about why these agencies may 2:10:59.050 --> 2:11:02.110 not want to engage in that. Humanitarian and health workers 2:11:02.390 --> 2:11:05.770 have been killed in their homes by bombs with their 2:11:05.830 --> 2:11:09.910 families there. Aid convoys that have been clearly marked. I 2:11:09.930 --> 2:11:12.550 probably your audience is very familiar with the World Central 2:11:12.590 --> 2:11:16.630 Kitchen convoy and that kind of infamous image of this 2:11:16.750 --> 2:11:19.550 van with the logo on it with a bomb right 2:11:19.590 --> 2:11:23.130 next to it. And so many of these organizations said, 2:11:23.350 --> 2:11:24.970 we're not going to be able to do that. 2:11:25.010 --> 2:11:25.830 We're not going to do that. 2:11:25.890 --> 2:11:28.510 But we're essentially you're asking us to give you all 2:11:28.550 --> 2:11:30.030 the personal information of our staff. 2:11:31.300 --> 2:11:33.280 Now, Israel had initially said, if. 2:11:33.260 --> 2:11:35.540 You don't comply with these by March, at the time 2:11:35.560 --> 2:11:38.260 that I wrote that piece, then they would be deregistered. 2:11:38.700 --> 2:11:41.980 We've since seen many organizations come out and say that 2:11:42.010 --> 2:11:43.630 they would not participate. 2:11:43.730 --> 2:11:44.470 Some have. 2:11:44.830 --> 2:11:48.390 So we have seen some compliance by some organizations. And 2:11:48.430 --> 2:11:51.250 of course, their argument is always, well, we need access. 2:11:51.290 --> 2:11:52.930 And this is what we have to do for the access. 2:11:53.430 --> 2:11:56.910 So we have seen some delays in Israel's courts as 2:11:56.970 --> 2:12:01.500 to actual implementation of this. And organizations like UNRWA and. 2:12:01.520 --> 2:12:03.900 Others that have a heavy local. 2:12:03.620 --> 2:12:07.840 Palestinian staff presence on the ground, they don't need internationals 2:12:07.880 --> 2:12:10.900 to get entry permits, which Israel is blocking. And we've 2:12:10.940 --> 2:12:15.120 seen this increase in recent months. Basically, foreigners of all types, 2:12:15.200 --> 2:12:19.030 including foreign ministers who are trying to enter the West Bank, 2:12:19.150 --> 2:12:22.650 let alone Gaza, are being turned away. But we have 2:12:22.750 --> 2:12:27.800 seen those organizations are still functional to some level, but 2:12:27.840 --> 2:12:30.880 I have heard whispers and, you know, people are very, 2:12:30.940 --> 2:12:33.310 very concerned about what this means for the future of 2:12:33.350 --> 2:12:36.410 these organizations as it relates to their work with Palestinians. 2:12:36.850 --> 2:12:39.270 Local staff need to be paid. They need to be 2:12:39.330 --> 2:12:41.890 sure that they're safe. They need to have the equipment 2:12:41.930 --> 2:12:45.220 and resources that they need to help people. And so, again, 2:12:45.240 --> 2:12:50.650 Israel creates rules and then basically says, you have to 2:12:50.690 --> 2:12:52.890 submit to these rules or you won't be able to 2:12:52.910 --> 2:12:56.030 do what you need to do, what you're tasked to do, 2:12:56.550 --> 2:12:59.630 and what you had previously been permitted to do. Again, 2:12:59.650 --> 2:13:03.440 the rules themselves are unquestioned. Again, we saw some condemnations 2:13:03.490 --> 2:13:06.820 of this, but primarily from the humanitarian organizations themselves, we 2:13:06.840 --> 2:13:09.920 saw quite a strong statement early on signed by many 2:13:09.960 --> 2:13:10.540 of them that. 2:13:10.460 --> 2:13:12.460 Said, this is completely unacceptable. 2:13:13.260 --> 2:13:16.880 But unfortunately, the global powers and the funders of these 2:13:16.960 --> 2:13:19.740 organizations have not meaningfully pushed back on this. Now, we're 2:13:19.780 --> 2:13:22.210 seeing a lot of upheaval, and I won't go too 2:13:22.250 --> 2:13:25.690 much into this, in the Israeli Supreme Court. And of course, 2:13:25.790 --> 2:13:27.910 Israel has elections coming up. So a lot of these 2:13:27.970 --> 2:13:30.450 processes have been kind of delayed and put on hold. 2:13:31.010 --> 2:13:35.330 So we're really interested, to say the least, as to 2:13:35.410 --> 2:13:38.730 how a lot of this unfolds after Israel's elections. 2:13:39.330 --> 2:13:41.350 Correct me if I'm wrong with this, because obviously this 2:13:41.410 --> 2:13:43.370 is not my area of expertise, but I was at 2:13:43.390 --> 2:13:47.570 a meeting with the commissioner general of UNRWA recently. I mean, 2:13:47.590 --> 2:13:50.070 let me, before I ask the question, also tell the 2:13:50.090 --> 2:13:51.990 listeners without bearing the lead, the reason they want to 2:13:52.010 --> 2:13:54.930 dismantle UNRWA is because it keeps alive this, or they 2:13:54.970 --> 2:13:56.530 think it keeps alive this issue of the right of 2:13:56.570 --> 2:13:59.270 return as if like that is a right that can 2:13:59.950 --> 2:14:04.470 disappear if UNRWA disappears. Now that said, UNRWA has been 2:14:04.510 --> 2:14:07.220 under attack. And like you said, they've attempted to dismantle 2:14:07.230 --> 2:14:10.060 it in a variety of ways, but Based on what 2:14:10.100 --> 2:14:14.660 I heard at that meeting, UNRWA does comply with the 2:14:14.680 --> 2:14:19.600 state of Israel. UNRWA does provide lists and fires people 2:14:19.660 --> 2:14:23.020 based on Israeli suspicions. And at least this is what 2:14:23.540 --> 2:14:26.140 I got out of that meeting. Maybe I misunderstood the 2:14:26.180 --> 2:14:27.200 degree of coordination. 2:14:27.600 --> 2:14:27.860 Yes. 2:14:28.160 --> 2:14:30.610 So we could have a whole other episode, right? About critique. 2:14:30.630 --> 2:14:31.390 About UNRWA. 2:14:31.410 --> 2:14:32.010 Yeah. 2:14:32.190 --> 2:14:36.270 And that would be a whole interesting conversation. But UNRWA has, 2:14:36.510 --> 2:14:40.900 rightfully so, been critiqued by Palestinians. So when you look 2:14:40.920 --> 2:14:45.840 at camps and they're really underdeveloped, overcrowded, very, you know, dusty, 2:14:46.080 --> 2:14:50.190 very thin streets. And then you look at the UNRWA school, big, shiny, 2:14:50.690 --> 2:14:53.350 the foreign staff that are coming in to overlook these 2:14:53.410 --> 2:14:56.890 schools and hospitals are paid much higher salaries than the 2:14:56.930 --> 2:15:01.630 Palestinian staff. There's a whole host of arguments about UNRWA. 2:15:02.010 --> 2:15:04.760 And it's important to remember that when UNRWA kind of 2:15:04.800 --> 2:15:07.740 was founded in the late 1940s to deal with this 2:15:08.370 --> 2:15:13.430 new and expectedly short-term Palestinian refugee problem. At the same time, 2:15:13.490 --> 2:15:16.140 there was another, you know, kind of strain that was 2:15:16.180 --> 2:15:18.920 meant to deal with the political side. So Uderwa was 2:15:19.040 --> 2:15:21.660 never meant to be a political actor. It was only 2:15:21.740 --> 2:15:24.580 meant to kind of provide relief in these new camps 2:15:24.620 --> 2:15:28.000 that had sprung up that went from tents to buildings 2:15:28.100 --> 2:15:31.640 to basically towns. And so in some ways, they are 2:15:31.760 --> 2:15:34.480 critiqued for something that is not their mandate. They are 2:15:34.590 --> 2:15:39.000 a relief organization. And so as long as Palestinian refugees 2:15:39.040 --> 2:15:41.510 need relief, their argument is, we're going to give the relief. 2:15:42.100 --> 2:15:43.830 Someone else needs to work out the political side. 2:15:44.330 --> 2:15:47.370 And we can argue about how that relief and how 2:15:47.430 --> 2:15:51.910 humanitarian ecosystem as a whole has kind of enabled Israel's 2:15:52.050 --> 2:15:54.910 actions and made it so that Israel does not have 2:15:54.950 --> 2:15:57.890 to comply with its obligations as an occupying power to 2:15:57.930 --> 2:16:02.370 provide food, to provide medicine, to not transfer populations, for example, 2:16:02.470 --> 2:16:05.930 from occupied territory to Israeli jails. We can have a 2:16:05.970 --> 2:16:11.130 conversation about that. And UNRWA is very publicly, I would 2:16:11.170 --> 2:16:13.940 say conservative when it comes to critiquing the Israeli government. 2:16:14.000 --> 2:16:17.120 So when you look at recent statements from organizations like Oxfam, 2:16:17.610 --> 2:16:22.010 Or even MSF, which typically really prioritized neutrality. Even they 2:16:22.070 --> 2:16:24.290 have been really willing to say now, you know, they've 2:16:24.390 --> 2:16:25.750 used words like genocide. 2:16:25.790 --> 2:16:26.589 This is ridiculous. 2:16:26.950 --> 2:16:29.850 Yes, this is ridiculous. This is a complete affront to 2:16:29.890 --> 2:16:34.010 the entire infrastructure of humanitarianism as we developed it after 2:16:34.030 --> 2:16:36.170 World War II. UNRWA is much. 2:16:36.070 --> 2:16:39.110 More conservative with its statements. And again, it claims that 2:16:39.410 --> 2:16:43.410 its priority is access. It is the biggest service provider 2:16:43.470 --> 2:16:45.900 for health and education in the Gaza Strip, and it 2:16:46.000 --> 2:16:48.180 is one of the biggest in the West Bank. So, 2:16:48.780 --> 2:16:51.439 you know, it's this kind of catch-22 that the Palestinians 2:16:51.459 --> 2:16:54.699 that depend on those services are in. Now, as far 2:16:54.780 --> 2:16:57.740 as I know, because UNRWA is in the UN system, 2:16:57.780 --> 2:17:00.020 their argument is that they do not have to be 2:17:00.080 --> 2:17:03.160 subject to the same restrictions that Israel would place on 2:17:03.180 --> 2:17:09.630 non-UN humanitarian organizations. And recently we've seen other Israeli activities 2:17:09.690 --> 2:17:12.810 such as they bulldozed the UNRWA headquarters in East Jerusalem. 2:17:12.850 --> 2:17:14.150 Like they are trying. 2:17:14.400 --> 2:17:18.620 Both bureaucratically, administratively and physically to kind of remove this entity. 2:17:19.140 --> 2:17:21.629 But as far as I know, and things change very 2:17:21.670 --> 2:17:24.310 quickly on this, they did not comply with the new 2:17:24.390 --> 2:17:30.440 registration details. That said, they did really internalize these accusations 2:17:30.480 --> 2:17:32.740 that Israel had levied against them after October 7th. 2:17:32.760 --> 2:17:34.120 They did fire some staff. 2:17:34.860 --> 2:17:38.170 They, in the opinion of many, did not forcefully defend 2:17:38.230 --> 2:17:40.869 their staff as much as they could have. And when 2:17:40.890 --> 2:17:45.320 you talk to people that work with or work in UNRWA, again, 2:17:45.379 --> 2:17:47.850 they say, we are just trying to get through this 2:17:47.930 --> 2:17:51.470 period and maintain as much of an infrastructure as we can. 2:17:51.490 --> 2:17:53.970 And they have been through ups and downs before. I 2:17:54.140 --> 2:17:56.060 don't know if they've been through downs that are this 2:17:56.140 --> 2:17:59.880 down at any point. You know, the past, especially since 2:17:59.900 --> 2:18:04.340 the first Trump administration, we've seen really targeted attacks against UNRWA, 2:18:04.379 --> 2:18:09.330 which the Biden administration continues. But yes, it is undoubtedly 2:18:09.350 --> 2:18:14.129 UNRWA is not as vocal in terms of defending its staff, 2:18:14.270 --> 2:18:18.730 in terms of making political proclamations, in terms of, you know, 2:18:18.810 --> 2:18:21.230 just what we would kind of hope that one of 2:18:21.270 --> 2:18:25.070 the primary actors that is tasked with protecting a very 2:18:25.129 --> 2:18:26.750 vulnerable population would do. 2:18:26.770 --> 2:18:28.400 I mean, defending its own mandate. 2:18:28.770 --> 2:18:28.980 Right. 2:18:29.010 --> 2:18:30.010 Defending its own mandate. 2:18:30.090 --> 2:18:30.300 Right. 2:18:30.350 --> 2:18:31.300 To provide relief. 2:18:31.660 --> 2:18:34.869 And it's kind of constantly and so much of the 2:18:34.910 --> 2:18:38.450 international community is kind of constantly playing by Israel's rules. 2:18:38.930 --> 2:18:42.070 Israel makes an accusation, makes a rule. And instead of 2:18:42.129 --> 2:18:45.550 being like that accusation is insane or this rule is 2:18:45.610 --> 2:18:48.350 based in nothing, people just start arguing about, well, how 2:18:48.390 --> 2:18:49.930 can we get against that rule or how do we 2:18:49.970 --> 2:18:51.630 defend against that accusation? 2:18:52.110 --> 2:18:54.630 And this has been the playbook for a really long time. 2:18:54.690 --> 2:18:57.660 I think UNRWA has not been very effective in defending 2:18:57.720 --> 2:19:01.110 against that. Again, I think they would probably argue that's 2:19:01.150 --> 2:19:03.010 not what we're supposed to do. There's supposed to be 2:19:03.270 --> 2:19:06.879 political entities that defend against that. And we have seen 2:19:06.980 --> 2:19:10.340 some of the funders that pulled funding initially after October 2:19:10.640 --> 2:19:14.630 7th have reinstated funding. That said, Unruwa is in a 2:19:14.690 --> 2:19:19.109 very precarious position. And I and others are really interested 2:19:19.270 --> 2:19:22.770 in seeing in five years, what will Unruwa look like? 2:19:23.090 --> 2:19:25.800 Will it be an organization kind of in name only? 2:19:26.320 --> 2:19:28.860 You know, there's so much uncertainty, I think, coming up. 2:19:28.959 --> 2:19:31.360 And they're a huge part of that. Because if their 2:19:31.420 --> 2:19:35.620 services go, we suddenly have hundreds of thousands of people 2:19:35.660 --> 2:19:40.110 with no school, no hospital, no clinics. And a lot 2:19:40.129 --> 2:19:42.770 of Palestinians that work for UNRWA with no jobs and 2:19:42.830 --> 2:19:47.610 no salary and to contribute to the already insane unemployment 2:19:47.650 --> 2:19:50.490 rate and, you know, kind of economic doom spiral that 2:19:50.530 --> 2:19:51.310 the West Bank and. 2:19:51.230 --> 2:19:52.250 Gaza are in right now. 2:19:52.350 --> 2:19:56.810 So it's a really complicated, nuanced issue. And there's just 2:19:56.890 --> 2:19:59.820 so much uncertainty. I couldn't even begin to speculate on 2:19:59.850 --> 2:20:00.760 what comes next. 2:20:01.180 --> 2:20:02.660 Yeah, like you said, there's so much to talk about 2:20:02.700 --> 2:20:04.580 on that topic and on. 2:20:04.280 --> 2:20:05.020 Gaza as a whole. 2:20:05.040 --> 2:20:11.070 I just felt like despite how much they comply. There's 2:20:11.110 --> 2:20:11.610 no winning. 2:20:11.890 --> 2:20:12.269 No winning. 2:20:12.490 --> 2:20:12.870 That's it. 2:20:13.430 --> 2:20:14.310 That's the main takeaway. 2:20:14.650 --> 2:20:14.830 Yeah. 2:20:14.930 --> 2:20:17.869 Israel isn't trying to cooperate, obviously. 2:20:18.650 --> 2:20:18.890 Right. 2:20:19.150 --> 2:20:19.330 Yeah. 2:20:19.810 --> 2:20:21.050 So let's move on to the West Bank now. 2:20:21.310 --> 2:20:21.529 Sure. 2:20:21.770 --> 2:20:23.840 I've talked in a recent episode about how the West 2:20:23.860 --> 2:20:26.260 Bank is being ethnically cleansed. So listeners can refer to 2:20:26.300 --> 2:20:29.160 that episode if they want more info. But in July, 2:20:29.200 --> 2:20:31.539 you wrote for the Arab Center Washington about specifically the 2:20:31.600 --> 2:20:35.120 use of sexual violence in both territories. But since we're 2:20:35.140 --> 2:20:37.760 talking about the West Bank, How is sexual violence being 2:20:37.920 --> 2:20:39.869 used in the West Bank right now? How is the 2:20:39.890 --> 2:20:42.369 threat being used and by whom? And what is it accomplishing? 2:20:43.190 --> 2:20:46.510 Yeah, this is a tough topic, you know, and that 2:20:46.530 --> 2:20:49.300 was a really tough piece to write just because I 2:20:50.260 --> 2:20:55.090 think part of what we as kind of Palestine-focused scholars 2:20:55.350 --> 2:20:58.650 or people, even just observers of the situation, there are 2:20:58.750 --> 2:21:03.310 just so many pieces and mechanisms of displacement and ethnic 2:21:03.330 --> 2:21:06.310 cleansing utilized by Israel. So my primary lens that I 2:21:06.390 --> 2:21:09.070 use to look at that is degradation, de-development, and destruction 2:21:09.090 --> 2:21:13.550 of the health system. But I think what we've seen, 2:21:14.350 --> 2:21:17.190 especially since October 7th and all of these accounts that 2:21:17.209 --> 2:21:20.529 are coming out of Israeli prisons, is that sexual violence 2:21:20.770 --> 2:21:24.150 is wielded as a tool of essentially abuse and torture, 2:21:24.230 --> 2:21:28.650 primarily of Palestinian prisoners. Now, as early as the Nekba, 2:21:28.810 --> 2:21:32.459 there were reports in villages that were being kind of 2:21:32.760 --> 2:21:36.180 raided by Zionist militias of sexual violence of women and 2:21:36.220 --> 2:21:39.160 girls as a way to kind of show power. I mean, 2:21:39.180 --> 2:21:42.600 that's really the core of sexual violence. It is a 2:21:42.620 --> 2:21:46.470 way to show power. It is a way to induce powerlessness. 2:21:47.200 --> 2:21:49.200 It is a way to say, I can do this 2:21:49.280 --> 2:21:49.840 to you. 2:21:49.700 --> 2:21:51.280 And there's nothing you can do about it. And I'm 2:21:51.300 --> 2:21:52.260 going to do it publicly. 2:21:52.379 --> 2:21:55.039 And so there are many reports from the Nakba and 2:21:55.500 --> 2:21:59.820 the years afterwards that indicated that sexual. 2:21:59.180 --> 2:22:00.500 Violence was being used. 2:22:00.660 --> 2:22:03.160 And then the women, in some cases, were being paraded 2:22:03.220 --> 2:22:06.740 around Jerusalem as kind of a warning to other Palestinians. 2:22:07.300 --> 2:22:10.600 So it's been a part of this ecosystem, you know, 2:22:10.720 --> 2:22:13.190 for almost a century. So what we've seen lately is 2:22:14.050 --> 2:22:19.250 is many Palestinian prisoners, male and female, have reported sexual 2:22:19.290 --> 2:22:24.310 violence under Israeli guards. There have been, in fact, there was, 2:22:24.470 --> 2:22:27.490 I'm sure your audience is familiar with that famous video from, 2:22:27.570 --> 2:22:30.770 I believe, the State Timon prison of a Palestinian male 2:22:30.850 --> 2:22:33.010 prisoner who was being sexually assaulted. 2:22:33.730 --> 2:22:37.600 He needed medical care for his injuries. And there have 2:22:37.660 --> 2:22:38.340 been many. 2:22:38.220 --> 2:22:41.880 Reports that along with other forms of torture and medical neglect, 2:22:41.959 --> 2:22:45.760 so lack of clean food, lack of showers, lack of bathrooms, 2:22:45.860 --> 2:22:49.590 lack of care for medical needs, that sexual abuse and 2:22:49.650 --> 2:22:55.190 violence have been used against Palestinian prisoners. This includes stripping 2:22:55.230 --> 2:23:00.220 people publicly, including women. This includes sexual assault in some cases. 2:23:00.820 --> 2:23:01.940 Sometimes it includes violence. 2:23:02.190 --> 2:23:05.900 Threatening sexual assault upon people's families that are back home 2:23:05.980 --> 2:23:09.560 if they don't collaborate or cooperate or give information. 2:23:09.600 --> 2:23:12.180 You know, it's all used as a form of torture. 2:23:13.020 --> 2:23:16.920 And this is a very difficult issue to discuss throughout 2:23:16.970 --> 2:23:21.189 the Middle East. We have, unfortunately, very little good comprehensive 2:23:21.230 --> 2:23:23.949 data on incidents of sexual violence and assault. Much of 2:23:23.990 --> 2:23:28.160 this comes from firsthand testimonies of those who have experienced it. 2:23:28.230 --> 2:23:31.850 But there has been an undeniable increase in those reports 2:23:32.220 --> 2:23:36.320 I mean, Israel has imprisoned thousands of Palestinians just since 2:23:36.379 --> 2:23:39.760 October 7th, many of whom, no charge, you know, kind 2:23:39.780 --> 2:23:44.940 of under administrative detention. And there is no access to 2:23:44.959 --> 2:23:47.680 these prisoners by the Red Cross or others. Sometimes they 2:23:47.700 --> 2:23:50.160 won't even allow their lawyers or their families to talk 2:23:50.200 --> 2:23:52.250 to them. So all of this is kind of happening 2:23:52.390 --> 2:23:57.129 in secret. And it's those lucky prisoners who are released 2:23:57.150 --> 2:23:59.770 or have some contact with the outside world that are 2:23:59.890 --> 2:24:02.720 able to kind of tell people what is happening. And 2:24:02.780 --> 2:24:08.039 so we've seen this increased brazenness with Israeli soldiers. They 2:24:08.080 --> 2:24:11.960 are kind of even boasting about their crimes online, posting videos, 2:24:12.440 --> 2:24:17.080 posting pictures, posting what they see as kind of funny 2:24:17.120 --> 2:24:19.600 stories about how they're treating Palestinian prisoners. 2:24:19.680 --> 2:24:20.520 And we're seeing. 2:24:20.300 --> 2:24:23.200 Sexual violence reported by them as well. So it's not 2:24:23.240 --> 2:24:26.920 just the prisoners reporting this. The perpetrators are also saying, yeah, 2:24:26.940 --> 2:24:27.420 we're doing this. 2:24:27.900 --> 2:24:28.980 No one can do anything. 2:24:29.459 --> 2:24:32.750 I think much of that has gotten lost in the 2:24:32.810 --> 2:24:35.970 conversation of what's happened to Palestinians because, you know, there's 2:24:36.090 --> 2:24:40.770 so much overt things happening, you know, the destruction of Gaza, 2:24:40.790 --> 2:24:44.140 the genocide, the settler violence throughout the West Bank. But 2:24:44.640 --> 2:24:48.320 the settler violence has also taken a tone of including 2:24:48.620 --> 2:24:52.640 sexual violence and abuse. There was this story that I 2:24:52.700 --> 2:24:55.580 recount in the piece of a man who was sexually 2:24:55.640 --> 2:24:58.790 assaulted by settlers, then kind of paraded through his own village. 2:24:58.950 --> 2:25:03.090 So we are seeing this kind of tool of domination 2:25:03.709 --> 2:25:09.030 utilized more brazenly, more openly, more explicitly by both primarily 2:25:09.110 --> 2:25:15.400 Israeli prison guards and Israeli settlers. And again, the incentive 2:25:15.420 --> 2:25:18.180 structure is that you can do this and nothing is 2:25:18.220 --> 2:25:21.459 going to happen to you. And so in that kind 2:25:21.520 --> 2:25:25.560 of bubble of impunity, as we've warned about and many 2:25:25.620 --> 2:25:28.860 scholars have warned about and many observers and many Palestinians, 2:25:29.340 --> 2:25:32.240 the more you let them get away with crimes, even 2:25:32.280 --> 2:25:36.160 documented crimes, the more they are going to perpetuate these 2:25:36.180 --> 2:25:39.340 crimes and escalate when we're in the escalation phase right now. 2:25:39.940 --> 2:25:42.949 Yeah, there's this dynamic of like also even the threat 2:25:43.030 --> 2:25:48.490 of sexual violence is pushing Palestinian families to leave because 2:25:48.510 --> 2:25:50.310 they're worried about their children, they're worried about their. 2:25:50.350 --> 2:25:50.950 Exactly. 2:25:51.110 --> 2:25:52.090 So, yeah. 2:25:52.610 --> 2:25:56.610 It's really interesting because settler violence you know, it can 2:25:56.650 --> 2:25:59.699 come in several forms. It can be very explicit. They 2:25:59.920 --> 2:26:03.720 attack or threaten you. They attack your car. They kill 2:26:03.740 --> 2:26:07.619 your livestock. They burn your fields. They, you know, spread 2:26:07.740 --> 2:26:09.180 garbage on your crop. 2:26:09.200 --> 2:26:09.940 Skunk water. 2:26:10.000 --> 2:26:10.390 Exactly. 2:26:10.410 --> 2:26:11.730 There's a million mechanisms. 2:26:12.350 --> 2:26:14.530 And what we're seeing lately is that added to that 2:26:14.590 --> 2:26:18.190 list is either sexual violence or, as you said, the 2:26:18.250 --> 2:26:21.170 threat of sexual violence. And in that piece, I recount 2:26:21.220 --> 2:26:24.090 how some families said, That was the line for us. 2:26:24.379 --> 2:26:26.560 We were willing to stay. We were going to stay. 2:26:26.580 --> 2:26:29.260 We could deal with the physical attacks. But once it 2:26:29.300 --> 2:26:32.339 got to the point where I could no longer sleep 2:26:32.500 --> 2:26:35.320 because I was I felt feared for my mother or 2:26:35.360 --> 2:26:38.600 my daughter or my sister or, you know, people in 2:26:38.640 --> 2:26:40.920 my family at the risk of the sexual violence that 2:26:40.940 --> 2:26:43.980 was threatened, we had to go. And so you can 2:26:44.100 --> 2:26:47.550 see how it is a tool of the ethnic cleansing 2:26:47.570 --> 2:26:50.330 that you pointed out, because it is the way to 2:26:50.510 --> 2:26:54.850 without actually even doing anything. you know, enacting the violence, 2:26:55.410 --> 2:26:58.689 you can force people to leave their homes. And what 2:26:58.730 --> 2:27:01.830 happens after people leave their homes is settlers immediately take 2:27:01.910 --> 2:27:02.610 over that land. 2:27:02.709 --> 2:27:04.470 And we've seen that happen over and over again. 2:27:04.890 --> 2:27:05.629 Yeah. 2:27:05.830 --> 2:27:08.820 And it's not an empty threat because like you said, 2:27:08.860 --> 2:27:10.699 they get away with it. So if they did enact 2:27:10.740 --> 2:27:14.440 the violence, so like these Palestinian families are making... Rational choices. 2:27:14.980 --> 2:27:18.940 Rational choices, exactly. It's just such a hard topic. 2:27:19.240 --> 2:27:20.260 Yeah, it is. 2:27:20.920 --> 2:27:23.940 And just to note, we've barely even scratched the surface 2:27:24.000 --> 2:27:29.470 because we know that because of religious and cultural context, 2:27:29.590 --> 2:27:34.150 many people who experience this are simply too ashamed to share. 2:27:34.170 --> 2:27:38.070 They certainly won't report to a researcher or even a 2:27:38.150 --> 2:27:40.680 field worker, even if they're a local pal. and this 2:27:40.720 --> 2:27:44.080 happened to them. So undoubtedly this is happening to people 2:27:44.180 --> 2:27:46.939 and not being reported at a much wider scale than 2:27:46.990 --> 2:27:48.670 these publicly reported stories. 2:27:49.010 --> 2:27:52.770 Yeah, absolutely. I always think also like first intifada, second intifada, 2:27:52.790 --> 2:27:57.550 like sexual violence was used and they weaponized that shame. 2:27:57.590 --> 2:27:58.900 They weaponized that secrecy. 2:27:58.920 --> 2:27:59.060 Right. 2:27:59.590 --> 2:28:01.589 And now we're just seeing it at such a scale 2:28:01.870 --> 2:28:05.750 that there are some brave people who are bringing it 2:28:05.770 --> 2:28:06.470 to our attention. 2:28:06.490 --> 2:28:07.750 That's a great point. 2:28:08.350 --> 2:28:12.720 It's become so unavoidable and overt that people are even 2:28:12.800 --> 2:28:16.480 willing to kind of overlook or overcome that shame and stigma. 2:28:16.520 --> 2:28:20.080 Because I think one thing that Palestinians have been trying 2:28:20.140 --> 2:28:23.520 to say forever is, look what they're doing to us. 2:28:24.100 --> 2:28:24.890 Please just look. 2:28:25.250 --> 2:28:28.860 At least acknowledge that you see that it's happening. And 2:28:29.100 --> 2:28:32.410 there's been a million instances of that and a million different, 2:28:33.050 --> 2:28:35.950 you know, ways that Palestinians have tried to tell their story. 2:28:36.090 --> 2:28:40.090 And this is now, unfortunately, a horrific part of that story. 2:28:51.160 --> 2:28:51.940 Finally, for today. 2:28:52.500 --> 2:28:53.680 The publication Current History. 2:28:53.810 --> 2:28:53.939 Yeah. 2:28:54.360 --> 2:28:57.090 And an essay titled When Health is the Target, Violence, 2:28:57.129 --> 2:29:01.490 Restriction and Neglect in Palestine. You examine the systematic degradation 2:29:01.510 --> 2:29:04.410 of the health care infrastructure that's long been used, as 2:29:04.430 --> 2:29:06.930 we've been saying, like as a political and military tool 2:29:06.990 --> 2:29:09.050 against Palestinians. And you describe a lot of the tactics 2:29:09.070 --> 2:29:10.990 we just talked about. But could you explain to us 2:29:11.030 --> 2:29:14.810 specifically in this last part what de-development means and how 2:29:14.870 --> 2:29:15.990 Israel is pursuing that goal? 2:29:16.990 --> 2:29:17.910 Yes, definitely. 2:29:18.330 --> 2:29:22.830 And so de-development is kind of been, especially as it 2:29:22.870 --> 2:29:27.460 refers to specifically Palestinians, and especially in the Gaza Strip, 2:29:27.500 --> 2:29:31.580 was a term coined by political economist Sarah Roy, which 2:29:31.640 --> 2:29:37.060 described not an underdevelopment, which you would see with, you know, 2:29:37.300 --> 2:29:40.490 lack of money, lack of financial ability to build better things, 2:29:40.570 --> 2:29:45.480 to do more, but an active de-development, which basically placed 2:29:45.600 --> 2:29:48.490 a ceiling on the level of development that Palestinians had. 2:29:48.570 --> 2:29:51.410 So it wasn't suddenly about how much aid was coming 2:29:51.530 --> 2:29:55.030 in or how educated Palestinians are. Do you have the 2:29:55.070 --> 2:29:57.470 specialists that can do this or that? Do you have 2:29:57.670 --> 2:30:00.920 college educated people? As we know, Palestinians are among the 2:30:00.959 --> 2:30:04.199 most educated populations in the Middle East. Lack of skill 2:30:04.220 --> 2:30:09.000 was never an issue. But through primarily this system of 2:30:09.400 --> 2:30:13.350 movement restrictions, import restrictions, preventing the movement of people in 2:30:13.390 --> 2:30:17.810 and out of Palestinian territory, Israel has been able to de-develop. 2:30:18.250 --> 2:30:19.230 First, Dr. 2:30:19.290 --> 2:30:23.300 Roy referred to this in the Palestinian economy. So Palestinians 2:30:23.400 --> 2:30:26.310 used to have a you know, it was a small territory, 2:30:26.330 --> 2:30:30.550 but a relatively important role in, you know, importing olives 2:30:30.650 --> 2:30:34.530 and olive oil and olive soap. Gaza had its strawberries, 2:30:34.570 --> 2:30:37.880 you know, Jaffa had its oranges. It was a country, 2:30:38.090 --> 2:30:41.860 it was a place, I suppose, that was active in 2:30:41.920 --> 2:30:44.040 terms of a global market. 2:30:44.860 --> 2:30:46.580 And through first. 2:30:46.360 --> 2:30:48.760 The Nekba and the establishment of the state of Israel, 2:30:48.800 --> 2:30:52.460 but especially through the occupation of And then, of course, 2:30:52.540 --> 2:30:56.539 through the economic restrictions of Oslo, Israel has been able 2:30:56.580 --> 2:31:01.220 to essentially, with a metaphorical dial, control how the Palestinian 2:31:01.260 --> 2:31:06.310 economy could grow. And by preventing, you know, collecting taxes, 2:31:06.410 --> 2:31:10.870 withholding taxes, preventing import of goods. So, you know, you 2:31:10.910 --> 2:31:13.200 want to be an entrepreneur now. How are you going 2:31:13.240 --> 2:31:15.860 to import the goods that you're going to sell? How 2:31:15.879 --> 2:31:18.099 are you going to export the goods that you create? 2:31:18.540 --> 2:31:21.860 And we started seeing this across sectors, the agricultural sector. 2:31:22.220 --> 2:31:25.440 Palestinians couldn't import the fertilizer and the seeds that they needed. 2:31:26.000 --> 2:31:29.000 They were, you know, the land was getting smaller and smaller. 2:31:29.120 --> 2:31:32.520 So what we're seeing in the Palestinian health care system 2:31:32.800 --> 2:31:37.019 is this same de-development phenomenon. How it's enacted in the 2:31:37.060 --> 2:31:41.620 health sector is in a multitude of ways. So they 2:31:41.740 --> 2:31:46.820 prevent literal building materials from entering the territories, particularly Gaza. 2:31:46.840 --> 2:31:50.340 I mean, we're talking cement, we're talking wires, pipes. They 2:31:50.379 --> 2:31:54.120 prevent import of those materials that would build the infrastructure 2:31:54.170 --> 2:31:57.080 that we need. But of course, infrastructure is not all 2:31:57.100 --> 2:32:00.490 the health system needs. You need educated staff and providers. 2:32:00.990 --> 2:32:03.950 They have limited the types, especially in the Gaza Strip, 2:32:04.010 --> 2:32:07.670 of specialties that medical schools can teach because they simply 2:32:07.709 --> 2:32:09.570 don't have the equipment or they don't have the staff 2:32:10.160 --> 2:32:12.600 Then they prevent Palestinians from being able to leave to 2:32:12.640 --> 2:32:14.980 get that training and then return to the Gaza Strip. 2:32:15.000 --> 2:32:19.140 So part of what has been so horrific to witness 2:32:19.200 --> 2:32:21.689 in Gaza is not just the killing of health workers, 2:32:21.750 --> 2:32:26.949 but so many of them who had experience, who were specialists, 2:32:27.290 --> 2:32:31.050 who had gotten training in Switzerland or Saudi Arabia or somewhere, 2:32:31.150 --> 2:32:33.970 come back to Gaza. Now what we're seeing in Gaza 2:32:34.050 --> 2:32:36.390 is of the remaining health care system, a lot of 2:32:36.450 --> 2:32:38.250 it is new graduates or trainees. 2:32:39.040 --> 2:32:39.699 You have lost. 2:32:40.080 --> 2:32:44.980 decades upon decades of experience, of wisdom, heads of departments, 2:32:45.459 --> 2:32:47.820 deans of medical schools, you know, these people that kind 2:32:47.860 --> 2:32:51.560 of had the infrastructural knowledge and know-how and knew how 2:32:51.580 --> 2:32:54.120 to make things work and knew how to connect people together. 2:32:54.780 --> 2:32:58.080 You strip all that away, you have a quote-unquote health system, 2:32:58.490 --> 2:33:00.190 but it's very limited in what it can do. In 2:33:01.050 --> 2:33:04.350 the Gaza Strip, you had limitations on import of PET 2:33:04.390 --> 2:33:07.580 scanners and CT scanners and because of the argument that 2:33:07.620 --> 2:33:11.800 Hamas could use materials from that equipment to dot, dot, dot, 2:33:12.100 --> 2:33:13.240 security risk, right? 2:33:13.320 --> 2:33:14.100 Don't ask questions. 2:33:14.730 --> 2:33:18.070 We've seen a limited amount of import in the West Bank. 2:33:18.670 --> 2:33:21.449 In the West Bank, we also see destruction of ambulances. 2:33:21.550 --> 2:33:22.730 Attacks on paramedics. 2:33:22.810 --> 2:33:26.450 Paramedics of the Palestinian Red Crescent are now wearing bulletproof vests. 2:33:27.050 --> 2:33:30.110 We're seeing, as you noted, ambulances and other people stopped 2:33:30.170 --> 2:33:33.590 at checkpoints. There have been hundreds of births by birthing 2:33:33.640 --> 2:33:36.180 mothers at checkpoints who were on their way to the hospital. 2:33:36.900 --> 2:33:39.520 I include as part of the de-development of the health sector, 2:33:39.560 --> 2:33:43.900 the kind of environmental degradation. So health includes your. 2:33:43.780 --> 2:33:46.310 Ability to eat good, nutritious, clean food. 2:33:46.790 --> 2:33:49.190 It includes your ability to drink water. You know, the 2:33:49.209 --> 2:33:52.990 West Bank is under significant water restrictions at all times, essentially. 2:33:53.050 --> 2:33:55.390 And in the Gaza Strip, there's very little clean water, 2:33:55.629 --> 2:33:58.769 even prior to the genocide. It's something like 95% of 2:33:58.800 --> 2:34:01.860 the water was non-potable and had to go through different 2:34:01.940 --> 2:34:05.990 treatment facilities. You know, sewage in the streets, lack of 2:34:06.070 --> 2:34:08.470 public services. I mean, I could really go on and on. 2:34:08.590 --> 2:34:14.090 So through its system of deprivation and restriction, Israel has 2:34:14.209 --> 2:34:18.930 essentially created a health care system that is never operating 2:34:18.980 --> 2:34:21.860 at 100 percent. So even when the WHO talks about 2:34:21.980 --> 2:34:25.900 fully functional Palestinian hospitals, there was still so much they 2:34:25.940 --> 2:34:29.700 could not do that their colleagues in Jordan or Lebanon 2:34:29.800 --> 2:34:33.119 or Syria or any other country, even in the region, 2:34:33.400 --> 2:34:36.280 can do simply because they can get the tools, they 2:34:36.310 --> 2:34:39.030 can get the specialists, they can get the skills. It's 2:34:39.090 --> 2:34:41.930 not a matter of, again, more money. We don't need 2:34:42.070 --> 2:34:46.990 more humanitarian agencies on the ground. It's Israeli restrictions that 2:34:47.030 --> 2:34:50.910 are purposefully kind of creating this environment where there is 2:34:50.950 --> 2:34:53.070 a ceiling to how well the health system can do. 2:34:53.190 --> 2:34:56.300 And so the kind of pressure valve for that was 2:34:56.320 --> 2:34:59.840 the medical permits. So a huge part of the Palestinian 2:34:59.860 --> 2:35:03.970 Authority's budget towards the health ministry was paying for Palestinians 2:35:04.090 --> 2:35:08.010 to leave Palestine and in some cases get care in Israel. 2:35:08.390 --> 2:35:11.150 So, I mean, think about the logic of that. 2:35:11.209 --> 2:35:14.610 You have a struggling health system and sometimes your best 2:35:14.750 --> 2:35:16.630 option for patients is to. 2:35:16.750 --> 2:35:18.970 Pay your occupier. Exactly. 2:35:19.050 --> 2:35:22.580 Pay the occupying power. or pay the Jordanians. 2:35:22.600 --> 2:35:26.220 You know, Jordan has an entire corridor for Palestinian patients 2:35:26.280 --> 2:35:29.500 because it takes so many of them. Similar, Egypt has 2:35:29.680 --> 2:35:33.869 specific hospitals that are well-known for taking Palestinian patients. Much 2:35:33.910 --> 2:35:36.789 of the East Jerusalem Hospital Network, which used to be 2:35:36.830 --> 2:35:39.990 the heart, the beating heart of the Palestinian healthcare system, 2:35:40.590 --> 2:35:44.410 was severed from the West Bank, especially after the second intifada. 2:35:44.770 --> 2:35:46.880 And now Palestinians, even that live in. 2:35:46.920 --> 2:35:50.940 Ramallah or Bethlehem that are, what, 45 minutes away, it 2:35:51.480 --> 2:35:54.160 takes weeks or months of waiting to get a permit. 2:35:54.340 --> 2:35:55.920 And then it's not just you that needs a permit. 2:35:55.959 --> 2:35:57.270 Let's say you're sick. 2:35:57.550 --> 2:35:59.990 Maybe you want your partner to come with you, or 2:36:00.010 --> 2:36:02.209 maybe you want your mother to come with you, or 2:36:02.230 --> 2:36:05.369 maybe your child is sick and they need you, of course, 2:36:05.410 --> 2:36:09.010 to come with you. Israel also controls the companion permits. 2:36:09.090 --> 2:36:11.230 And sometimes that is an entirely separate process. And then 2:36:11.250 --> 2:36:13.609 you need a permit for every visit. So there is 2:36:13.629 --> 2:36:16.630 not a single aspect of health care, whether it's in 2:36:16.670 --> 2:36:21.769 a Palestinian hospital, in Palestinian territory, broadly speaking, or needing 2:36:21.810 --> 2:36:24.340 to leave Palestine to get care somewhere else that Israel 2:36:24.379 --> 2:36:29.420 has not actively developed through deprivation and restriction. And so 2:36:29.459 --> 2:36:31.820 that is what we talk about when we say it's 2:36:31.860 --> 2:36:34.930 not just, oh, this is a war-torn country and if 2:36:35.050 --> 2:36:37.550 only they had more aid, if only they had more 2:36:37.830 --> 2:36:39.930 this and that, things would be better. No, this is 2:36:39.950 --> 2:36:45.410 a artificial situation policy created by the Israeli state. And 2:36:45.690 --> 2:36:48.220 I mean, I guess fortunately for us, they've only become 2:36:48.300 --> 2:36:51.260 more explicit about saying what their goals are, which is this, 2:36:51.760 --> 2:36:55.340 what they're calling voluntary immigration, but is essentially kicking Palestinians 2:36:55.379 --> 2:36:56.640 out of the land so that they can take it. 2:36:57.160 --> 2:37:02.760 And they have utilized every sector, education, agriculture, economy, and health, 2:37:03.350 --> 2:37:07.610 to enact that goal. And by public surveys and by 2:37:07.660 --> 2:37:11.560 what we're seeing, it is successful. There have been hundreds 2:37:11.600 --> 2:37:14.200 of villages ethnically cleansed in the West Bank in just 2:37:14.240 --> 2:37:17.660 the past few years. More than, what, 60% of the 2:37:17.700 --> 2:37:20.910 Gaza Strip is now basically inaccessible to people in Gaza. 2:37:21.600 --> 2:37:22.770 And we have. 2:37:22.730 --> 2:37:26.830 Seen polls of younger Palestinians who are saying, I can't 2:37:27.110 --> 2:37:27.510 do this. 2:37:27.750 --> 2:37:29.050 I can't live here anymore. 2:37:29.270 --> 2:37:32.450 If an opportunity comes for me to go somewhere else, 2:37:32.500 --> 2:37:34.359 to study somewhere else, to get a job somewhere else, 2:37:34.480 --> 2:37:37.840 I'm going to take it. And this is the voluntary 2:37:37.940 --> 2:37:41.360 quote-unquote immigration that the Israeli authorities are talking about, making 2:37:41.459 --> 2:37:46.560 life so difficult such that Anything you need is a challenge. 2:37:46.879 --> 2:37:49.600 Every journey when you leave your house is a question. 2:37:49.930 --> 2:37:52.550 Will I come home? How long will it take? You know, 2:37:52.610 --> 2:37:54.170 my son wants to go to a wedding in a 2:37:54.209 --> 2:37:57.449 neighboring village. What will happen to him? I'm having, you know, 2:37:57.550 --> 2:38:00.060 cramping while I'm pregnant. Should I go to the hospital 2:38:00.120 --> 2:38:01.760 and risk it or should I just stay home and 2:38:01.780 --> 2:38:02.500 see what happens? 2:38:02.890 --> 2:38:04.820 I mean, just think about like the daily stress and 2:38:04.879 --> 2:38:06.060 decision Palestinians. 2:38:06.320 --> 2:38:06.839 The grind. 2:38:07.400 --> 2:38:10.320 It's unimaginable. And, you know, I haven't even talked about 2:38:10.360 --> 2:38:11.720 mental health yet with you. 2:38:11.740 --> 2:38:12.020 I know. 2:38:12.120 --> 2:38:14.280 I mean, that's a whole other aspect of it. 2:38:14.709 --> 2:38:16.810 We need you back on a different episode. Just like 2:38:16.870 --> 2:38:19.050 talk through like every single aspect of this, because it's 2:38:19.090 --> 2:38:22.750 like I am Palestinian. I was born in Columbia Hospital. 2:38:23.790 --> 2:38:26.990 I lived there. And I still can't fathom how bad 2:38:27.010 --> 2:38:31.090 it has gotten. I don't understand how people are living. 2:38:31.300 --> 2:38:34.380 I don't understand. They've been under attack to this level. 2:38:35.379 --> 2:38:38.839 Yeah, I will say, you know, my family is primarily 2:38:38.879 --> 2:38:40.680 in the north, in and around Nablus. 2:38:40.820 --> 2:38:43.040 And I mean, some of the elders in my family, 2:38:43.060 --> 2:38:45.440 you know, they, and I've said this many times lately, 2:38:45.520 --> 2:38:48.650 they lived through 67. They remember the jets flying over 2:38:48.680 --> 2:38:51.550 the village. They lived through the first Intifada. They lived 2:38:51.570 --> 2:38:55.770 through Oslo. They lived through the Second Intifada. Without exception, 2:38:56.570 --> 2:38:59.910 they are reporting that now is the worst I can remember. 2:39:00.730 --> 2:39:03.550 And for the first time, because as you know, it's 2:39:03.570 --> 2:39:08.830 like a very Palestinian, you know, Samud, right? I would 2:39:08.910 --> 2:39:11.630 rather stay and die on this land than go somewhere else. 2:39:11.670 --> 2:39:14.110 That is like such a- A rally and cry, yeah. 2:39:14.330 --> 2:39:17.070 Cultural thing to grow up with. But for the first time, 2:39:17.129 --> 2:39:20.320 they're saying, I don't know if we can expect the 2:39:20.360 --> 2:39:23.980 next generations to do what we did. No one's getting paid. 2:39:24.000 --> 2:39:26.920 And if you are getting paid, there's very little to buy. 2:39:26.940 --> 2:39:29.580 And if you can buy something, you worry about going 2:39:29.620 --> 2:39:32.320 to the store. I mean, it's every level of life. 2:39:33.000 --> 2:39:36.170 And imagine raising a child, trying to go to work. And, 2:39:36.430 --> 2:39:39.270 you know, the settlers, just the knowledge that they are 2:39:39.709 --> 2:39:44.090 out there. People are so terrified of going anywhere. I mean, 2:39:44.150 --> 2:39:46.930 not even leaving the village or the town, leaving your house. 2:39:47.050 --> 2:39:49.580 If you live near a settlement, leaving your house is 2:39:49.640 --> 2:39:50.060 a threat. 2:39:50.300 --> 2:39:50.519 Yeah. 2:39:51.140 --> 2:39:52.879 And they'll come to your house too. Like, don't worry 2:39:52.900 --> 2:39:54.580 about it. You stay in your house, they'll also come. 2:39:55.140 --> 2:39:55.400 Right. 2:39:56.940 --> 2:39:57.160 Yeah. 2:39:57.400 --> 2:39:59.900 It's very bleak. I apologize that we ended on such 2:39:59.940 --> 2:40:03.140 a bleak note, but this is really the reality facing Palestinians. 2:40:03.560 --> 2:40:04.310 No, it's important. 2:40:04.860 --> 2:40:08.000 Yeah. And I really appreciate your time breaking all this 2:40:08.040 --> 2:40:11.000 down for us, that this is such a crisis on 2:40:11.100 --> 2:40:14.690 so many levels. But yes, like health, like human health 2:40:14.790 --> 2:40:18.770 and the human condition is so under attack in both territories. 2:40:19.390 --> 2:40:21.129 But thank you so much, Yadav, for your time. I 2:40:21.150 --> 2:40:21.850 really appreciate it. 2:40:22.629 --> 2:40:25.350 No, thank you for having me and for asking, you know, 2:40:25.410 --> 2:40:28.580 I think such detailed questions so that we can... I mean, 2:40:28.820 --> 2:40:31.660 I feel like we've barely scratched the surface, but hopefully 2:40:31.820 --> 2:40:34.900 your audience has a good look at just how holistic 2:40:34.980 --> 2:40:39.840 and comprehensive the current emergency is. You know, we're past 2:40:39.879 --> 2:40:42.400 the point of, is this a humanitarian crisis? What is 2:40:42.420 --> 2:40:45.580 the political solution? This is an existential crisis for Palestinians 2:40:45.620 --> 2:40:48.100 at this point. And what happens in the next few 2:40:48.150 --> 2:40:51.830 years will, I think, really determine what happens to us 2:40:52.030 --> 2:40:52.529 as a people. 2:40:52.970 --> 2:40:57.930 Yeah, no, I agree and hope that it isn't too late. 2:40:58.570 --> 2:40:58.730 Yeah. 2:40:59.470 --> 2:40:59.970 Thank you again. 2:41:00.670 --> 2:41:01.529 Thank you for having me. 2:41:14.150 --> 2:41:17.930 This is It Could Happen Here, Executive Disorder, our weekly 2:41:17.970 --> 2:41:20.890 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 2:41:20.930 --> 2:41:23.849 and what this means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. Today 2:41:23.870 --> 2:41:27.560 I'm joined by Robert Evans, James Stout, and Mia Wong. 2:41:28.220 --> 2:41:31.800 The whole gang back together. This episode, we are covering 2:41:31.900 --> 2:41:36.200 the week of September 30th to October 7th. James, I 2:41:36.240 --> 2:41:39.440 think you can take it away with your barrage of news. 2:41:40.060 --> 2:41:40.359 All right. 2:41:40.379 --> 2:41:42.770 So, yeah, we've got a lot of small things this week. 2:41:43.170 --> 2:41:46.350 Another person has died in ICE custody, making this the 2:41:46.470 --> 2:41:51.090 deadliest year on record with 37 reported deaths so far. 2:41:51.110 --> 2:41:52.470 Of course, it's only October. 2:41:52.490 --> 2:41:55.699 Yeah, like we're entering the final quarter of the year 2:41:55.760 --> 2:42:00.610 like this this week. Julian Kuro Churata died in Louisiana 2:42:00.990 --> 2:42:04.369 after being transported from the Richwood Correctional Center. The Richwood 2:42:04.390 --> 2:42:07.109 Correctional Center has a long and dark history of neglect 2:42:07.510 --> 2:42:08.510 and even homicide. 2:42:08.530 --> 2:42:10.490 I've linked to an article about that in the show notes. 2:42:11.410 --> 2:42:14.529 This week, the president suggested in a rally that it 2:42:14.610 --> 2:42:17.849 would be acceptable for him to allow Iran to bomb 2:42:17.930 --> 2:42:19.629 San Diego and Los Angeles. 2:42:19.930 --> 2:42:20.910 A small price to pay. 2:42:21.310 --> 2:42:23.470 Yeah, I remain neutral on the issue of Los Angeles, 2:42:23.550 --> 2:42:26.519 but we're not having that in San Diego. He's not 2:42:26.540 --> 2:42:30.200 so much remarkable. He always says crazy shit, right? His rallies, 2:42:30.240 --> 2:42:32.920 he just goes on a wild one. But like, what's remarkable, 2:42:32.940 --> 2:42:34.500 I think, is a response of the administration. 2:42:34.980 --> 2:42:36.860 It is itself a kind of interesting thing for a 2:42:36.900 --> 2:42:40.660 president to say. It is a remarkable choice in the 2:42:40.700 --> 2:42:41.740 months before an election. 2:42:42.379 --> 2:42:43.199 It's a little bit high. 2:42:43.660 --> 2:42:47.020 It's a small price to pay for keeping the world safe, 2:42:47.040 --> 2:42:48.220 keeping our country safe. 2:42:48.260 --> 2:42:49.480 They can take out a city. 2:42:50.160 --> 2:42:52.910 Let them take out Los Angeles. 2:42:52.940 --> 2:42:54.490 Let them take out San Diego. 2:42:58.980 --> 2:43:02.529 The cheering is what's also very interesting. I'm looking at 2:43:02.570 --> 2:43:06.310 the faces of the people immediately behind him. They're turning 2:43:06.330 --> 2:43:08.689 to each other. Yeah, they all look a little confused. 2:43:09.129 --> 2:43:12.420 I'm going to read a post from Rapid Response 47. 2:43:12.400 --> 2:43:15.240 It's one of the White House associated Twitter accounts. The 2:43:15.400 --> 2:43:17.460 LA Times had said that the Trump had suggested it 2:43:17.480 --> 2:43:19.500 would be okay to take out Los Angeles or San 2:43:19.520 --> 2:43:22.880 Diego because that is a phrase that he said. Quote, no, 2:43:22.920 --> 2:43:25.039 he didn't, you buffoons. He was saying the US is 2:43:25.060 --> 2:43:27.490 fighting to stop Iran from having the ability to take 2:43:27.520 --> 2:43:30.269 out LA and San Diego with a nuclear weapon, which 2:43:30.290 --> 2:43:31.550 they would if they had the chance. 2:43:32.530 --> 2:43:35.650 That's not true. That's just not what Trump said. That's 2:43:35.670 --> 2:43:36.570 just very clearly. 2:43:36.910 --> 2:43:40.290 And this isn't taken out of context. He was saying 2:43:40.330 --> 2:43:45.680 that if Iran nuked, Los Angeles or San Diego, that 2:43:45.700 --> 2:43:47.980 would be a small price to pay for us to 2:43:48.020 --> 2:43:50.480 beat Iran, for us to then destroy Iran. 2:43:50.700 --> 2:43:54.320 That's what he's saying. He was previously talking about gas prices. Yes, 2:43:54.379 --> 2:43:57.690 there's no other context. He was saying it would be 2:43:57.709 --> 2:44:00.490 awesome if this liberal city was wiped off the face 2:44:00.530 --> 2:44:01.870 of the earth because it would let us do what 2:44:01.910 --> 2:44:02.990 we're going to do already. 2:44:03.370 --> 2:44:05.090 We also have, like most of the Pacific fleet, a 2:44:05.110 --> 2:44:08.449 massive Marine Corps base, fucking nuclear submarines. It would be 2:44:08.480 --> 2:44:10.879 very inconvenient for the United States if we lost San Diego. 2:44:10.980 --> 2:44:14.110 But Yeah, there's this line in 1984, the party told 2:44:14.129 --> 2:44:16.260 you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. 2:44:16.540 --> 2:44:18.820 It was their final, most essential command. No, he didn't, 2:44:18.900 --> 2:44:19.920 you buffoons. 2:44:20.240 --> 2:44:23.220 Yeah, people love to be fucking wrong about George Orwell. 2:44:23.300 --> 2:44:25.400 It is the bane of my existence. This is an 2:44:25.540 --> 2:44:28.890 excellent time to be quoting 1984 by George Orwell, because 2:44:28.970 --> 2:44:30.730 this is the kind of shit it is about. 2:44:31.570 --> 2:44:32.090 Moving on. 2:44:32.110 --> 2:44:35.550 A lawsuit in Texas has stopped the border wall construction, 2:44:35.930 --> 2:44:37.650 not just in Big Bend National Park, but also in 2:44:37.670 --> 2:44:38.590 the region at large. 2:44:38.709 --> 2:44:39.050 Oh, wow. 2:44:39.290 --> 2:44:40.750 Yeah, yeah. People seem a little. 2:44:42.530 --> 2:44:45.730 Border wall construction is still ongoing in other places. There 2:44:45.790 --> 2:44:48.950 are other areas where there are still waivers for land protections. 2:44:48.990 --> 2:44:50.190 Which they're still using. 2:44:50.209 --> 2:44:52.650 And I think it's worth noting that the ultimate victory 2:44:52.690 --> 2:44:54.930 is at a temporary pause in the wall, right? The 2:44:55.010 --> 2:44:59.430 ultimate victory is the wall comes down and the land 2:44:59.500 --> 2:45:01.879 is restored as best it can be. Like this wall 2:45:01.930 --> 2:45:04.680 is still doing damage. The construction has still done damage. 2:45:05.520 --> 2:45:07.820 And I think sometimes people get a little lost in 2:45:07.840 --> 2:45:10.119 the source, but it's still a good thing. United States 2:45:10.160 --> 2:45:14.310 troops have completed their withdrawal from Iraq. leaving the Kurdistan 2:45:14.330 --> 2:45:17.230 region of Iraq especially vulnerable without the air defence that 2:45:17.270 --> 2:45:19.810 it's relied on so heavily. Since February, there have been 2:45:19.830 --> 2:45:25.210 a thousand drone and missile attacks on Kurdistan. Following this withdrawal, 2:45:25.230 --> 2:45:28.430 there was an Islamic State attack in Kirkuk last night. 2:45:28.590 --> 2:45:31.440 It looks like they attacked a PMF position and killed 2:45:31.520 --> 2:45:34.900 one person, but they already claim responsibility for destroying a 2:45:35.080 --> 2:45:35.900 thermal camera. 2:45:36.260 --> 2:45:39.580 Can you explain what the PMF is? Yeah, a popular. 2:45:39.280 --> 2:45:42.310 Mobilization forces, like militia that was mobilized to fight the 2:45:42.350 --> 2:45:43.030 Islamic State. 2:45:43.370 --> 2:45:43.630 Right. 2:45:43.970 --> 2:45:46.949 In the fighting against ISIS in Mosul, you had like 2:45:47.070 --> 2:45:50.670 two primary, like non-state militias. There was the Peshmerga, which 2:45:50.720 --> 2:45:52.600 is like the Kurdish militias from the north. And then 2:45:52.620 --> 2:45:55.500 you had the popular mobilization forces, which were the Iranian 2:45:55.540 --> 2:45:58.240 backed guys. And the dudes you wanted to avoid when 2:45:58.280 --> 2:46:01.700 you were there, to be honest. They were not the 2:46:01.740 --> 2:46:04.670 least trustworthy of the Iraqi state forces. 2:46:04.690 --> 2:46:04.910 Yeah. 2:46:05.390 --> 2:46:06.690 Some of those guys run a wild one. 2:46:07.090 --> 2:46:07.390 Yeah. 2:46:07.410 --> 2:46:10.310 And remain on a wild one to this day in 2:46:10.370 --> 2:46:12.790 some cases. Yeah. Oh, boy. 2:46:12.830 --> 2:46:14.470 I know Iraq is supposed to be doing some sort 2:46:14.490 --> 2:46:16.860 of regularization there, but they keep pushing back the deadline 2:46:16.900 --> 2:46:17.180 of that. 2:46:17.600 --> 2:46:18.400 It's a big ask. 2:46:18.640 --> 2:46:18.900 It is. 2:46:18.959 --> 2:46:20.680 Yeah, that's a lot of people with guns who don't 2:46:20.700 --> 2:46:25.120 want to come back. Well, the Iraqi state has never 2:46:25.379 --> 2:46:29.359 in its modern incarnation managed a functional military without huge 2:46:29.440 --> 2:46:33.040 numbers of like non-state but state aligned militias. 2:46:33.100 --> 2:46:33.340 Yeah. 2:46:33.480 --> 2:46:36.460 And so it's just a massive change for them to make. 2:46:36.560 --> 2:46:37.519 Yeah. 2:46:37.560 --> 2:46:40.420 The monopoly they have on legitimate violence is very tenuous 2:46:40.480 --> 2:46:43.070 if at all. Like it's just it's just not. It's 2:46:43.120 --> 2:46:44.910 not the way that it is in the US. It's 2:46:45.129 --> 2:46:46.690 certainly not a monopoly. 2:46:46.890 --> 2:46:50.410 The Iraqi state is like the Microsoft of having like. 2:46:50.350 --> 2:46:54.330 A legitimate- Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like an oligopoly. 2:46:54.890 --> 2:46:58.449 There's like an Apple out there. There's an Android, right? 2:46:58.470 --> 2:47:00.750 Yeah, you got Samsung up in Kurdistan. 2:47:00.790 --> 2:47:01.269 Yeah, yeah. 2:47:01.370 --> 2:47:02.300 That's a good analogy. 2:47:02.560 --> 2:47:02.930 Yeah. 2:47:03.580 --> 2:47:05.459 I want to move to Spain, right? There's been a 2:47:05.500 --> 2:47:07.580 huge series of protests in Spain following the eviction of 2:47:07.600 --> 2:47:12.520 an 87-year-old woman named María del Carmen Abascal. She's known 2:47:12.570 --> 2:47:15.510 as Mari Carmen. It's pretty common to contract your name. 2:47:16.670 --> 2:47:19.790 People began occupying. 2:47:19.070 --> 2:47:19.950 The Puerta del Sol. 2:47:20.080 --> 2:47:20.620 In Madrid. 2:47:21.240 --> 2:47:22.740 Many of you will remember this as one of the 2:47:22.780 --> 2:47:26.220 very early seeds of the Occupy movement, or of the 2:47:26.260 --> 2:47:27.420 movement that became known. 2:47:27.300 --> 2:47:28.220 As the Occupy movement. 2:47:29.000 --> 2:47:31.890 Pedro Sanchez attempted to pass a reform package, but he 2:47:31.950 --> 2:47:34.730 ran up against right-wing opposition in parliament, which he then 2:47:34.770 --> 2:47:37.730 dissolved and called a snap general election. He has now 2:47:37.790 --> 2:47:39.310 proposed a new set of steps which would need to 2:47:39.330 --> 2:47:43.310 be ratified by an interim legislature because parliament has been dissolved, right? 2:47:43.850 --> 2:47:47.370 In Barcelona, over the weekend, there were huge protests. Cops 2:47:47.410 --> 2:47:49.869 ordered people out of the street. The protesters in Gracia, 2:47:49.890 --> 2:47:52.170 where I used to live, filled the streets with burning 2:47:52.209 --> 2:47:54.879 trash and threw stuff at the cops instead of leaving. 2:47:54.900 --> 2:47:58.500 You love to see it. It's so funny to me 2:47:58.580 --> 2:48:00.820 that I can picture the exact street that is being 2:48:00.860 --> 2:48:02.920 filled with burning trash because I have been there several 2:48:02.980 --> 2:48:06.720 times where that has been happening before. The circle of 2:48:06.760 --> 2:48:10.600 life continues. On the Rambla, people use construction materials to 2:48:10.640 --> 2:48:13.820 try and hold arguably one of the most iconic boulevards 2:48:13.860 --> 2:48:17.800 on the planet. It's ironic this is happening. 90 years 2:48:17.840 --> 2:48:21.550 and a couple of months after Catalan workers fought the 2:48:21.670 --> 2:48:24.610 country's army and defeated it in the same streets. 2:48:25.310 --> 2:48:28.350 Moving on to crocodile news. Florida crocodile. Did you guys 2:48:28.370 --> 2:48:29.830 know they have crocodiles in Florida? 2:48:29.950 --> 2:48:31.680 What now? Are you sure? 2:48:31.879 --> 2:48:35.189 Yeah, I've heard from Florida men and their allies on 2:48:35.209 --> 2:48:35.550 this one. 2:48:35.910 --> 2:48:39.000 It does seem they have crocodiles. James, I, I have 2:48:39.020 --> 2:48:41.640 heard from Florida men about this. We've all heard from 2:48:41.680 --> 2:48:43.220 the Floridians. Yeah, thank you. 2:48:43.750 --> 2:48:48.270 And let's put people in quotation marks there. We're talking Florida. 2:48:49.250 --> 2:48:52.150 Okay. The Floridian transgenders are cool. 2:48:53.590 --> 2:48:57.260 I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about people from 2:48:57.300 --> 2:49:00.540 the northern part of Florida. Yeah, the Florida, Georgia. People 2:49:00.600 --> 2:49:01.680 in quotation marks. 2:49:02.020 --> 2:49:06.180 Well, unfortunately, there is one less crocodile in Florida now. 2:49:06.490 --> 2:49:06.670 Yeah. 2:49:07.450 --> 2:49:11.050 Crocodile has been found dead from lead poisoning. It got 2:49:11.070 --> 2:49:13.590 into a pool and started behaving weirdly and had this 2:49:13.650 --> 2:49:17.030 kind of foul smelling, I think like vomit. And then 2:49:17.420 --> 2:49:18.860 they got it back into a canal and then they 2:49:18.879 --> 2:49:21.440 found it dead the next day. Did an autopsy and 2:49:21.480 --> 2:49:24.640 it had a bunch of lead in its stomach, 23 2:49:24.640 --> 2:49:28.180 air rifle pellets and a fishing sinker. This is important 2:49:28.230 --> 2:49:30.890 because like, this is a policy issue, right? Like specifically 2:49:30.950 --> 2:49:34.280 the use of lead projectiles for hunting. It's something that's 2:49:34.440 --> 2:49:38.940 been prohibited in California and in like Condor. I don't 2:49:38.959 --> 2:49:40.800 think it's prohibited in Condor region. I think it is 2:49:40.840 --> 2:49:43.520 prohibited in Condor parts of Arizona, but it's also like 2:49:43.540 --> 2:49:46.360 a voluntary program where they'll pay for you to have 2:49:46.540 --> 2:49:49.590 copper monolithic ammunition. And there's been a whole lot of 2:49:49.620 --> 2:49:52.650 pushback on this recently. In Florida, I know a lot 2:49:52.670 --> 2:49:55.709 of people hunt iguanas with air rifles, but like this 2:49:55.750 --> 2:49:59.010 is a very direct causal relationship that we can point 2:49:59.030 --> 2:50:01.180 to from like lead to dead animal. I don't know 2:50:01.240 --> 2:50:03.959 how commonplace this is, but I thought it was interesting 2:50:04.000 --> 2:50:07.380 as a relatively rarer species. I do want to get 2:50:07.400 --> 2:50:10.000 into depth on this, on natural causes, but I'm going 2:50:10.020 --> 2:50:12.020 to find some people to interview so we can be 2:50:12.060 --> 2:50:15.800 clear on where the science stands on that. Finally, in 2:50:15.840 --> 2:50:20.440 the Strait of Hormuz, Hormuz News, Iran is once again 2:50:20.720 --> 2:50:24.240 attacking ships with anti-ship cruise missiles, things that they still 2:50:24.280 --> 2:50:27.100 have despite months and months and months of the US 2:50:27.140 --> 2:50:29.740 trying to bomb them. I think there have been six 2:50:29.920 --> 2:50:33.180 attacks since the UN General Assembly happened in late September 2:50:33.520 --> 2:50:35.580 that were recorded on Wednesday. It seems like they've taken 2:50:35.620 --> 2:50:37.900 along about one a day at the minute. So there 2:50:37.920 --> 2:50:39.560 might be a couple more by the time. 2:50:39.440 --> 2:50:39.920 You hear this. 2:50:40.800 --> 2:50:46.879 Also this week, Paramount has closed the $ 111 billion acquisition 2:50:47.120 --> 2:50:52.300 of Warner Brothers, forming a new conglomerate called Skydance, which 2:50:52.360 --> 2:50:55.959 is the Ellison company that originally bought Paramount a few 2:50:56.000 --> 2:51:00.510 years back. So now both CNN and CBS are in 2:51:00.650 --> 2:51:05.269 control of the Ellisons. Ellison sent out a day one 2:51:05.480 --> 2:51:10.360 memo to all these new employees, which warned them, quote, 2:51:11.040 --> 2:51:15.200 integrating two companies will bring change, including difficult decisions that 2:51:15.260 --> 2:51:19.980 affect our workforce. Layoffs are obviously expected in the next 2:51:20.060 --> 2:51:20.480 few months. 2:51:20.500 --> 2:51:21.300 Yeah. 2:51:21.730 --> 2:51:24.650 The state of California was able to secure concessions such 2:51:24.790 --> 2:51:26.849 as a promise to release about 30 movies a year 2:51:26.890 --> 2:51:31.260 for five years and a $ 5 million fund for independent movies. 2:51:32.180 --> 2:51:35.879 Cool. That'll fix it. Yeah, this will put a dent 2:51:35.940 --> 2:51:39.820 in obviously the absolute and total consolidation of media in 2:51:39.879 --> 2:51:43.050 general of all forms into the hands of an extremely 2:51:43.070 --> 2:51:44.750 small number of people who absolutely suck. 2:51:45.650 --> 2:51:48.250 This is the worst merger that I can, like, remember 2:51:48.310 --> 2:51:49.629 in my life. Like, this is the worst thing that 2:51:49.690 --> 2:51:51.519 I can, like, see and remember as, like, a conscious 2:51:51.560 --> 2:51:55.180 living human. Like, the scale of this is, like, absurd. 2:51:56.140 --> 2:51:57.420 It shouldn't be allowed. 2:51:57.720 --> 2:51:58.099 Yeah. 2:51:58.520 --> 2:52:01.400 No, it very clearly violates antitrust. If Lena Kahn was 2:52:01.600 --> 2:52:04.410 in charge, this obviously wouldn't happen. No, they would have 2:52:04.450 --> 2:52:07.070 the Navy SEALs at the Ellison compound. 2:52:07.250 --> 2:52:10.730 Yeah. Hey, minimum viable 2028 program. 2:52:11.129 --> 2:52:11.390 Yeah. 2:52:11.530 --> 2:52:15.270 No, breaking up this company should become a project that 2:52:15.330 --> 2:52:18.510 gets promoted by people like Khan and us. 2:52:18.690 --> 2:52:19.990 And if we're going to have Navy SEALs, this is 2:52:20.010 --> 2:52:25.320 what you use them for. Yeah. The anti-Ellison SEAL division. Yeah. 2:52:25.980 --> 2:52:29.640 I will note that the very last Warner Brothers production 2:52:29.900 --> 2:52:32.230 as an independent studio was the movie Digger. 2:52:32.250 --> 2:52:32.340 Yeah. 2:52:32.860 --> 2:52:35.480 Which I've heard is actually pretty good. It is not 2:52:35.560 --> 2:52:36.260 doing well. 2:52:36.330 --> 2:52:39.369 It's a catastrophic box office bomb, but I've heard it's 2:52:39.410 --> 2:52:40.779 really good. I'm looking forward to seeing it. 2:52:40.790 --> 2:52:42.370 Very divisive film. Very divisive film. 2:52:43.010 --> 2:52:45.930 I'm not anti-Digger, but it is very funny that that 2:52:45.990 --> 2:52:49.530 is their last release, is Tom Cruise's biggest box office 2:52:49.580 --> 2:52:50.840 bomb in a generation. 2:52:51.840 --> 2:52:55.300 Obviously, David Zaslav has been, in many ways, a disaster 2:52:55.600 --> 2:52:59.410 for Warner Brothers, and his... his reign of the company is, 2:52:59.530 --> 2:53:03.850 is partially what's led them to being acquired here. But 2:53:03.870 --> 2:53:07.730 Warner brothers has put out a bunch of really interesting 2:53:07.950 --> 2:53:10.260 and good films the past few years. And the, the, 2:53:10.280 --> 2:53:13.300 the current batch of executives promoted and fought for those movies, 2:53:13.340 --> 2:53:16.220 like sinners movies, like one battle after another, uh, those 2:53:16.260 --> 2:53:18.800 executives are already gone. Those executives are not going to 2:53:18.840 --> 2:53:23.560 be sticking around David Ellison's, uh, new, new Warner brothers. 2:53:23.760 --> 2:53:26.410 So the, the people that brought you one battle and, 2:53:26.520 --> 2:53:29.740 and sinners, uh, are no longer at the helm. 2:53:30.879 --> 2:53:33.060 So I wanted to update everyone on what's been happening 2:53:33.120 --> 2:53:35.580 in Likio. If you didn't listen last week, you can 2:53:35.600 --> 2:53:38.260 get the very basics. But I was there last week, 2:53:38.300 --> 2:53:41.800 not there now. A number of people had been defending 2:53:41.820 --> 2:53:45.720 a pair of cottonwood trees that had once been part 2:53:45.740 --> 2:53:48.840 of a stand of cottonwood trees that joined canopies over 2:53:48.879 --> 2:53:52.420 the border. Construction workers for Fisher Sand and Gravel had 2:53:52.459 --> 2:53:55.890 previously dropped three of them. in their construction of the 2:53:55.930 --> 2:53:59.400 border wall, at which point someone had been sitting in 2:53:59.420 --> 2:54:02.560 the one remaining tree on the northern side. There's another 2:54:02.620 --> 2:54:04.760 tree which seems to be very close to or spanning 2:54:04.800 --> 2:54:07.720 the border, which had been sat in briefly by someone 2:54:07.740 --> 2:54:10.700 who'd come from the Mexican side before they came down. 2:54:11.360 --> 2:54:15.560 On the 5th of October, Border Patrol staged a huge 2:54:15.680 --> 2:54:19.200 raid on this camp. The camp, for what it's worth, 2:54:19.240 --> 2:54:21.780 is on private land. Generally, BP doesn't need a warrant 2:54:21.800 --> 2:54:26.539 to enter private land unless it's a domicile, if they're 2:54:26.540 --> 2:54:28.340 25 miles or less from the border, which they were 2:54:28.379 --> 2:54:30.860 in this instance. So they raided the camp. They then 2:54:30.920 --> 2:54:33.120 came in with a cherry picker, pulled the person who 2:54:33.160 --> 2:54:35.890 was in the tree out of the tree, detained them, 2:54:36.330 --> 2:54:39.420 and then pushed over the tree with an excavator very, 2:54:39.490 --> 2:54:42.250 very quickly. They moved extremely fast to do this whole thing. 2:54:42.690 --> 2:54:46.290 They detained 10 people that day. I'm not quite sure 2:54:46.390 --> 2:54:48.330 what those people or if those people have been cited 2:54:48.370 --> 2:54:49.110 or charged yet. 2:54:49.250 --> 2:54:50.590 I'm still trying to get that information. 2:54:51.620 --> 2:54:55.150 The next day, five more people were detained and somebody 2:54:55.470 --> 2:54:58.750 began defending, by sitting in it, the other tree, the 2:54:59.129 --> 2:55:02.570 tree that straddles the border, perhaps, or the tree that 2:55:02.590 --> 2:55:05.670 people thought was in Mexico, but it's not exactly clear, 2:55:05.690 --> 2:55:08.170 like without seeing the border monuments exactly where they line up. 2:55:08.940 --> 2:55:10.660 The thickness of a line on a map is way 2:55:10.680 --> 2:55:14.340 too thick to have this kind of definition. And so currently, 2:55:14.730 --> 2:55:17.650 the other tree is still being defended. That doesn't mean 2:55:17.670 --> 2:55:20.070 the border wall construction has completely stopped. It seems they're 2:55:20.090 --> 2:55:22.950 working at a very frenzied pace. As we recorded on Wednesday, 2:55:23.010 --> 2:55:27.550 they began working overnight on Tuesday night. And what they're 2:55:27.570 --> 2:55:29.830 doing now is it appears that they are building... So 2:55:29.850 --> 2:55:32.010 this is an area where they have double barrier, right? 2:55:32.110 --> 2:55:36.010 Two walls about 60 foot apart. One wall just inside 2:55:36.030 --> 2:55:38.789 the Roosevelt Reservation, and then one wall just inside the 2:55:38.830 --> 2:55:41.390 United States. And then there's a road between them that 2:55:41.410 --> 2:55:44.670 BP can drive, right? And it kind of, it cedes 2:55:45.000 --> 2:55:48.820 hundreds of acres of the United States to Border Patrol control, right? 2:55:49.080 --> 2:55:50.900 Most of it was public land in this case, right? 2:55:51.060 --> 2:55:54.959 Forest Service or some of its state wildlife refuge. Some 2:55:54.980 --> 2:55:59.680 of it, I think BLM manages that Roosevelt Reservation, for 2:55:59.700 --> 2:56:02.340 what I can understand, because BLM posted notices that they 2:56:02.379 --> 2:56:07.160 were closing it last week. So What Border Patrol is 2:56:07.220 --> 2:56:10.459 now doing is building that northernmost wall first to prevent 2:56:10.520 --> 2:56:13.220 access to the southernmost wall. It seems that they're doing 2:56:13.240 --> 2:56:15.170 this at a very frenzied pace. It seems like they 2:56:15.209 --> 2:56:17.130 might be skipping some of this. Just from pictures I've seen, 2:56:17.150 --> 2:56:20.750 they might be skipping some of the usual smart wall, 2:56:20.850 --> 2:56:23.830 fiber optic conduit that they would put in there and 2:56:23.890 --> 2:56:25.670 just trying to get up a barrier as quickly as 2:56:25.709 --> 2:56:29.500 they can, obviously to prevent people continuing to protest. The 2:56:29.540 --> 2:56:32.300 protest had the permission of landowners to be on their 2:56:32.340 --> 2:56:35.050 land and their local sheriff had said that he wasn't 2:56:35.090 --> 2:56:38.150 going to be arresting any of the protesters. So BP 2:56:38.370 --> 2:56:42.230 decided to do it themselves after 71 days of that 2:56:42.270 --> 2:56:45.100 tree being defended. So that tree is now gone, but 2:56:45.480 --> 2:56:48.620 the other tree remains. I thought it was also very 2:56:48.660 --> 2:56:51.720 sweet that people have taken cuttings from the trees that 2:56:51.780 --> 2:56:54.660 were taken down and those cuttings are already growing too, 2:56:55.060 --> 2:56:58.140 which is nice to see. Nature springs eternal. But yeah, 2:56:58.240 --> 2:57:00.640 I'm going to cover this in a two-parter on natural causes. 2:57:01.220 --> 2:57:03.859 It will not be the Monday after you hear this, 2:57:03.900 --> 2:57:05.650 but it will be the Monday after that. And that'll 2:57:05.670 --> 2:57:07.710 be the first episode and there'll be two episodes. So 2:57:07.870 --> 2:57:09.580 you'll have to wait to then to get the long 2:57:09.640 --> 2:57:12.820 version of this talking of long we've got a long 2:57:12.879 --> 2:57:15.959 time without advertisements which i know makes our listeners sad 2:57:15.980 --> 2:57:18.220 let's hear from fish of sand. 2:57:18.080 --> 2:57:18.740 And gravel. 2:57:29.480 --> 2:57:32.670 So we mentioned earlier that there are large protests going 2:57:32.730 --> 2:57:36.510 on in Spain. There are also very, very large student 2:57:36.550 --> 2:57:41.670 protests going on in France right now. These started September 18th, 2:57:42.310 --> 2:57:45.509 where high school students, and this is an interesting development 2:57:45.550 --> 2:57:49.609 because most of the written history of student movements is 2:57:49.660 --> 2:57:53.160 about college students. These are high school students. And they 2:57:53.220 --> 2:57:56.940 have started en masse blockading their schools and taking to 2:57:56.959 --> 2:58:01.010 the streets to These protests started in the Parisian suburbs. 2:58:01.150 --> 2:58:03.930 It is worth bearing in mind that French urban infrastructure 2:58:04.030 --> 2:58:09.390 is effectively the exact inversion of the way American infrastructure 2:58:09.410 --> 2:58:13.920 worked with white flight, where in the US you have 2:58:13.940 --> 2:58:16.920 white people fleeing the urban core into the suburbs. France 2:58:16.980 --> 2:58:19.740 is built the opposite, where working class and non-white people 2:58:19.780 --> 2:58:22.760 were forced into the suburbs because they were not able 2:58:22.800 --> 2:58:25.260 to live in the urban core, which is predominantly whiter 2:58:25.360 --> 2:58:29.930 and significantly richer. Everyone watch Lehane. It's great. I wish 2:58:29.950 --> 2:58:33.050 I had any idea what that was. It's a French 2:58:33.129 --> 2:58:34.250 film about this. 2:58:34.570 --> 2:58:35.289 Ah, okay. 2:58:35.330 --> 2:58:39.680 It's about people living in these sorts of suburbs. It's 2:58:40.240 --> 2:58:44.440 two immigrants and I think a young Jewish kid who 2:58:44.480 --> 2:58:48.459 then travel into the city center and bad things happen. 2:58:49.000 --> 2:58:50.510 It's very similar to the story that you're going to 2:58:50.520 --> 2:58:51.070 be talking about. 2:58:51.110 --> 2:58:51.310 Yep. 2:58:51.530 --> 2:58:53.830 But it's like looking at the conditions 20 years ago. 2:58:54.340 --> 2:58:56.220 And the same conditions now. 2:58:56.500 --> 2:59:00.800 Yeah. And conditions are worse. Not the same, actually. Yeah. 2:59:01.420 --> 2:59:06.820 So these protests spread very, very quickly. And it is 2:59:06.860 --> 2:59:09.580 now spread effectively everywhere. It's not just in Paris. It 2:59:09.640 --> 2:59:13.420 is across the entire country. I think right now, the 2:59:13.500 --> 2:59:17.470 last number that I saw, and this changed while I 2:59:17.530 --> 2:59:20.650 was writing this, the last number that I saw was 2:59:20.650 --> 2:59:24.250 500 of France's 3,500 high schools are fully shut down. 2:59:24.270 --> 2:59:24.970 Damn. 2:59:25.310 --> 2:59:28.289 So these protests, again, started a couple of weeks ago 2:59:28.410 --> 2:59:33.189 on September 18th. As of Wednesday the 7th, they are 2:59:33.290 --> 2:59:37.390 not just continuing, but escalating. Now, We're going to get 2:59:37.430 --> 2:59:40.650 into the police response in a second, but I can't 2:59:40.730 --> 2:59:42.789 count the number of times on this show I have 2:59:42.850 --> 2:59:45.199 said there was a giant police crackdown and the images 2:59:45.240 --> 2:59:48.820 of the police crackdown spread the protests, but that's what 2:59:48.840 --> 2:59:51.820 happened here. Why is this happening? Why is it specifically 2:59:51.940 --> 2:59:54.820 high school students who are now in the streets in 2:59:55.240 --> 2:59:58.279 full-on conflict with riot police who are reacting to and 2:59:58.320 --> 3:00:01.390 treating them the way that they treat? I mean, frankly, 3:00:01.490 --> 3:00:05.350 worse than most protesters get treated in France, which is 3:00:05.610 --> 3:00:08.690 sort of astonishing. Yeah. So there's actually a good crimping 3:00:08.730 --> 3:00:10.930 piece about this. There's a lot of things happening here. 3:00:11.490 --> 3:00:14.710 Part of it is a reaction to class sizes, where 3:00:14.750 --> 3:00:17.650 you have 30 and 35 kids, sometimes a lot more 3:00:17.690 --> 3:00:20.910 than that. Class sizes is an issue that's familiar also 3:00:20.950 --> 3:00:22.750 to you. I mean, a lot of these demands look 3:00:22.770 --> 3:00:25.250 like the demands you see in teacher strikes effectively everywhere. 3:00:25.270 --> 3:00:25.850 Yeah. 3:00:26.270 --> 3:00:26.510 Yeah. 3:00:26.790 --> 3:00:29.310 These class sizes are enormous. Part of it is the 3:00:29.490 --> 3:00:33.500 structure of the French education system, which is French schools 3:00:33.530 --> 3:00:35.910 have breaks, but also you're in school from 8 a.m. 3:00:35.920 --> 3:00:36.180 To 6 p.m. 3:00:37.770 --> 3:00:43.730 Which is longer than most places and also causes, you know, 3:00:43.750 --> 3:00:46.050 this also causes teachers to have to work longer hours. 3:00:46.850 --> 3:00:49.050 And that means that, you know, because they're working longer hours, 3:00:49.090 --> 3:00:50.970 the number of teachers you have is strained because you're 3:00:50.990 --> 3:00:55.369 covering more time. This plus, you know, decades of neoliberal 3:00:55.430 --> 3:01:01.029 austerity has led to conditions where there will just not 3:01:01.110 --> 3:01:03.280 be a substitute teacher. So a teacher will get sick. 3:01:04.020 --> 3:01:06.260 They'll have like maybe a person there, but it's not 3:01:06.310 --> 3:01:08.279 even a substitute teacher who could take over lesson plans. 3:01:08.310 --> 3:01:09.340 You just have a week at a time where you're 3:01:09.360 --> 3:01:13.190 in a subject that's on the national exam system and 3:01:13.209 --> 3:01:18.509 there's no teacher, which is just sort of appalling given 3:01:18.690 --> 3:01:20.690 one of the other things that these protests are about, 3:01:20.750 --> 3:01:24.929 which is this sort of algorithmic program. I remember we 3:01:25.190 --> 3:01:32.200 had a much less... I don't know, ferocious, a less 3:01:32.300 --> 3:01:34.240 strict version of this when I was in high school. 3:01:34.280 --> 3:01:37.000 But in France, they have this sort of student program 3:01:37.050 --> 3:01:39.180 where you're supposed to put in your choices and it 3:01:39.230 --> 3:01:41.430 looks at your test scores and it spits out what 3:01:41.470 --> 3:01:44.250 you should be doing after high school. And this is 3:01:44.290 --> 3:01:46.510 one of the things that it feeds you into what 3:01:46.629 --> 3:01:48.650 track you're going into, right? So it feeds you into 3:01:48.690 --> 3:01:52.010 vocational schools. It feeds you into what kind of colleges 3:01:52.030 --> 3:01:54.850 you can get into. It has turned into the system 3:01:54.870 --> 3:01:57.710 kind of like we talked about with the Indian student protests, right? 3:01:58.040 --> 3:02:02.340 where there's this incredibly intense pressure on students to like 3:02:02.440 --> 3:02:04.970 fight against each other, basically for, you know, like it's, 3:02:05.030 --> 3:02:08.570 it's promoted intense competition. And then also it's just, it's, 3:02:08.629 --> 3:02:11.369 it's a weird algorithm system and everyone is like forced 3:02:11.410 --> 3:02:16.410 to manage these issues you have with this weird algorithm, 3:02:16.450 --> 3:02:19.400 taking what your information you're giving it and spitting you 3:02:19.500 --> 3:02:22.780 out this thing that like determines the rest of your life. 3:02:23.850 --> 3:02:25.990 I mean, there's a lot of other problems. The actual 3:02:26.030 --> 3:02:29.480 conditions in the schools themselves are very bad. Like, you know, 3:02:29.500 --> 3:02:34.260 it's leaking roofs, things like that. There's also, I saw 3:02:34.300 --> 3:02:37.900 a thing about, like, lunch breaks where students weren't able 3:02:37.940 --> 3:02:39.860 to eat because the lunch break wasn't, like, they don't 3:02:39.879 --> 3:02:41.779 have enough cafeteria staff and the lunch break wasn't long 3:02:41.820 --> 3:02:44.740 enough for all the students to, like, get food. Jeez. 3:02:44.959 --> 3:02:45.740 Yeah, that's a problem. 3:02:46.180 --> 3:02:49.920 Yeah. These conditions are emblematic of. 3:02:51.410 --> 3:02:53.470 I mean, just a lot of what of this sort 3:02:53.490 --> 3:02:58.170 of deterioration of social services and, you know, the sort 3:02:58.209 --> 3:03:01.330 of death of opportunity for these students in a way 3:03:01.370 --> 3:03:03.430 that the more I'm thinking about, the more it's just, oh, 3:03:03.470 --> 3:03:07.470 this reminds me a lot of the Indian protests. And 3:03:07.510 --> 3:03:12.369 so the protests themselves, the Macron administration made a decision very, 3:03:12.430 --> 3:03:14.369 very early on that they were not going to negotiate 3:03:14.390 --> 3:03:16.910 with the students. They have kind of become more open 3:03:16.970 --> 3:03:20.170 to it. In the past day, we'll see what happens there. 3:03:21.040 --> 3:03:25.480 But their immediate response was a brutal police crackdown, which 3:03:25.500 --> 3:03:29.590 has been the Macron administration's response to most things. And 3:03:29.709 --> 3:03:34.490 this has been a full-on French police assault on a 3:03:34.530 --> 3:03:37.750 bunch of children. A 15-year-old got his hand blown off. 3:03:38.370 --> 3:03:41.110 I've seen conflicting reports about this. It seems like he 3:03:41.150 --> 3:03:42.590 was trying to pick up what he thought was a 3:03:42.610 --> 3:03:45.789 tear gas canister but was actually a stun grenade. Yeah. 3:03:46.190 --> 3:03:49.320 But I've also seen reports that like it hit him. 3:03:49.340 --> 3:03:52.940 I don't know. But regardless, somehow the police fired a 3:03:52.980 --> 3:03:54.700 grenade and it blew this kid's hand off. 3:03:55.060 --> 3:03:55.240 Yeah. 3:03:56.300 --> 3:03:58.599 Another student has lost an eye. I think that kid 3:03:58.620 --> 3:04:00.490 was 16. The kid who got his hand blown off 3:04:00.510 --> 3:04:02.390 again was 15. I'm going to quote from Crime Think 3:04:02.410 --> 3:04:06.419 here because there's another really bleak case. But currently, the 3:04:06.440 --> 3:04:09.400 14-year-old boy can't open his mouth as all of his 3:04:09.500 --> 3:04:11.990 bottom teeth were knocked out by the impact and all 3:04:12.000 --> 3:04:13.429 of his upper teeth are broken. 3:04:13.770 --> 3:04:14.710 Jesus. 3:04:14.910 --> 3:04:20.010 So, yeah, that kid is 14. Yeah. Again, I cannot 3:04:20.530 --> 3:04:25.060 emphasize enough. These are actual children. And this is also 3:04:25.110 --> 3:04:27.580 kind of part of what's complicated in covering this because 3:04:27.660 --> 3:04:30.440 I think it's important to mention that a cop should 3:04:30.500 --> 3:04:32.990 not be knocking out the teeth of anyone involved. The 3:04:33.010 --> 3:04:35.310 fact that they're doing this to 14-year-olds is particularly brutal. 3:04:35.430 --> 3:04:37.850 And also, I think that it's true, and this has 3:04:37.900 --> 3:04:39.500 been one of the debates that's been sort of raging 3:04:39.540 --> 3:04:44.120 across French society, is like, are these students legitimate political actors? Like, 3:04:44.140 --> 3:04:45.980 do they have the right to have their voices heard 3:04:46.600 --> 3:04:48.700 and to, you know, like, go and take political action 3:04:48.740 --> 3:04:52.599 like this? And the right has kind of said no 3:04:52.780 --> 3:04:55.110 and argued that these people are sort of pawns of, 3:04:56.590 --> 3:04:59.230 you know, they're pawns of what I would describe as 3:04:59.270 --> 3:05:03.150 the center-left movement Party, France Unbowed. The media will describe 3:05:03.170 --> 3:05:06.410 them as hard left, but come on. They're to the 3:05:06.490 --> 3:05:08.930 right of the old PCF, and the old French Communist 3:05:08.950 --> 3:05:14.220 Party was not a particularly communist Communist Party. But it's 3:05:14.260 --> 3:05:18.820 worth noting that while France Unbowed has talked to students 3:05:18.860 --> 3:05:21.140 and spoken at some of their protests, this was not 3:05:21.820 --> 3:05:24.910 a protest that was organized through the parties at all. 3:05:25.550 --> 3:05:28.050 There's an interesting interview in Le Monde with the French 3:05:28.090 --> 3:05:32.580 sociologist Vincent Taberge, where he points out that France is 3:05:32.620 --> 3:05:36.379 a country that has seen organized high school student protests too, 3:05:37.020 --> 3:05:40.840 but these are not those kind of protests. 2006 was 3:05:40.860 --> 3:05:44.730 kind of the last big high school student protest, but 3:05:44.790 --> 3:05:46.810 those ones were organized by leftist student unions that were 3:05:46.830 --> 3:05:49.710 directly affiliated with the parties. This is not that. This 3:05:49.790 --> 3:05:53.430 is a bunch of students taking action autonomously. They are 3:05:53.490 --> 3:05:58.570 self-organized and they are not particularly connected to... Any of 3:05:58.620 --> 3:06:00.910 the French political parties, even the sort of far left ones. 3:06:01.730 --> 3:06:04.570 And the scale is like huge, right? Oh, it's massive. 3:06:04.650 --> 3:06:07.390 For something that's more autonomously organized, like hundreds and hundreds 3:06:07.410 --> 3:06:09.090 of thousands of participants. 3:06:10.050 --> 3:06:13.619 Yeah, like all across the country. Yeah, I mean, they 3:06:13.800 --> 3:06:16.160 fully have shut down. Okay, I'm not going to try 3:06:16.180 --> 3:06:17.160 to do the math on there. Hold on. 3:06:17.580 --> 3:06:21.560 One in seven, 500 out of 3,500. Yeah, that sounds right. 3:06:22.260 --> 3:06:24.640 That's why they call him PhD James, everyone. 3:06:24.660 --> 3:06:30.400 Arcane historian over here. Hell yeah, hell yeah. I picked 3:06:30.440 --> 3:06:32.990 an anthropology degree specifically so I wouldn't have to do 3:06:33.030 --> 3:06:33.750 this kind of math. 3:06:35.580 --> 3:06:38.580 You just get to measure people's skulls instead in anthropology 3:06:38.620 --> 3:06:39.360 and do that kind of math. 3:06:39.379 --> 3:06:43.360 Yeah, well, look, anthropology consists of two things, racism and 3:06:43.379 --> 3:06:45.910 a discourse about whether or not it's doing racism. So, 3:06:46.180 --> 3:06:48.209 you know, this is why I'm a podcaster now. A 3:06:48.270 --> 3:06:50.590 discipline that has never done anything wrong. That is most 3:06:50.629 --> 3:06:54.430 of what my anthropology class is. There's some good stuff 3:06:54.490 --> 3:06:57.050 in there. Every once in a while, they accidentally start 3:06:57.070 --> 3:07:01.580 a social movement. Yeah, yeah. you do linguistic anthropology and 3:07:01.760 --> 3:07:04.320 it melts your brain. Oh, that's so scary. Yeah. 3:07:04.980 --> 3:07:07.840 From the perspective of La France Insoumise, it's a French 3:07:07.860 --> 3:07:12.160 word for France Unbowed, right? It's like a Demsoc in 3:07:12.180 --> 3:07:15.650 that it has people who are left of other people. 3:07:15.730 --> 3:07:18.370 But like Mir's right, this isn't a particularly radical party, 3:07:18.870 --> 3:07:20.810 at least not. sort of on a global scale. Like, 3:07:20.830 --> 3:07:26.010 you've seen some politicians do a lot better than others. Like, 3:07:26.209 --> 3:07:28.830 I'm sure everyone by now will have seen the Bali 3:07:28.870 --> 3:07:32.460 Bagayoko video, right, of the mayor getting tear gassed with 3:07:32.480 --> 3:07:32.859 the kids. 3:07:33.200 --> 3:07:33.380 Yeah. 3:07:33.800 --> 3:07:39.100 But, like, it's not about politicians and, like, attempts to 3:07:39.160 --> 3:07:41.859 make it about politicians other than being pissed off at them. 3:07:42.180 --> 3:07:45.470 Yeah, and people asking for, like, huge, like, structural changes. 3:07:45.790 --> 3:07:45.970 Yes. 3:07:46.070 --> 3:07:51.310 And frustration at both the left's inability to address this political. 3:07:51.070 --> 3:07:53.330 Situation in France and, you know, continuing a sort. 3:07:53.230 --> 3:07:56.750 Of like, like we talked about in like Brazil and 3:07:57.129 --> 3:07:59.650 in some parts of the States, it's sort of like gerotocracy, 3:07:59.810 --> 3:08:01.410 even among the left, where we have these kind of 3:08:01.510 --> 3:08:04.530 old guys who may have done good things, but they're 3:08:05.209 --> 3:08:07.349 still in their 80s and you need to pass the torch. 3:08:07.370 --> 3:08:09.490 And like a lot of what I'm seeing from these 3:08:09.530 --> 3:08:12.570 protests in France, it is a very like generational uprising. 3:08:13.070 --> 3:08:13.789 Yeah. 3:08:13.850 --> 3:08:17.170 Also built on the frustrations about how like 10% of 3:08:17.190 --> 3:08:20.720 the school budget is being diverted to the pension system. 3:08:21.340 --> 3:08:24.700 So there's a lot of this kind of generational frustration, 3:08:24.820 --> 3:08:28.280 and the left in France has also run into that. 3:08:29.220 --> 3:08:31.100 I was going to say, like, I did use a 3:08:31.120 --> 3:08:35.289 calculator for this one, but it is 58 years since 1968. 3:08:35.290 --> 3:08:39.849 But you have this, like, this generation of, like, 68ers. 3:08:40.330 --> 3:08:42.550 They've gone in a number of directions, right? But, like, 3:08:42.590 --> 3:08:45.770 to include, like, part of the electoral left. And, like, it's... 3:08:46.470 --> 3:08:49.030 It's not like we haven't seen protests since 68 in France, right? 3:08:49.310 --> 3:08:52.670 But like, it shouldn't be that one generation gets to 3:08:52.709 --> 3:08:55.300 have the, like we were the radical students who changed 3:08:55.320 --> 3:08:58.859 the world. And therefore you students now have to listen 3:08:58.900 --> 3:09:00.599 to us, even though we're old as fuck and don't 3:09:00.640 --> 3:09:01.980 understand the shit that you're going through. 3:09:02.500 --> 3:09:05.379 Yeah. And I think the sort of structural issue in 3:09:05.400 --> 3:09:09.270 terms of how, yeah, on a generational level, like how 3:09:09.310 --> 3:09:11.289 the left has been and has not been connecting to 3:09:11.330 --> 3:09:14.610 these students. I think it's also very important again, like, 3:09:15.430 --> 3:09:18.710 where this started and the kind of, like, working-class suburbs 3:09:18.870 --> 3:09:25.220 that the French left has had a really tenuous relationship with, like, 3:09:25.320 --> 3:09:27.860 kind of since the 70s. And we talked about this, like, so, like, 3:09:28.820 --> 3:09:32.660 I got three years ago now, there was a huge series, 3:09:32.680 --> 3:09:35.920 there was a huge uprising over a police killing in 3:09:35.940 --> 3:09:39.530 a different set of, in a different set of French 3:09:39.570 --> 3:09:41.770 suburbs that really. 3:09:43.530 --> 3:09:45.330 It came in this moment of what had been really 3:09:45.410 --> 3:09:48.129 fierce upheaval in France, like in the wake of the 3:09:48.170 --> 3:09:51.279 Yellow Vest and all these other protests. Other pension protests. 3:09:51.959 --> 3:09:52.580 Yeah, right. 3:09:52.600 --> 3:09:56.920 And this was the one where like the non-white people 3:09:56.959 --> 3:09:59.270 in the suburbs went up and the rest of France 3:09:59.330 --> 3:10:02.050 was like, oh, God, no, fuck off. We hate you. 3:10:02.070 --> 3:10:05.890 You're like to this day. like that, that the interview 3:10:05.910 --> 3:10:07.450 with the sociologist I was talking about in Le Mans, 3:10:07.490 --> 3:10:09.330 which is like the biggest newspaper in France is talking 3:10:09.379 --> 3:10:11.340 about how of all these students are like actually different 3:10:11.840 --> 3:10:16.140 than like the like urban disturbances from those 2023 protests 3:10:16.860 --> 3:10:20.480 about police brutality and sort of structural racism and class violence. 3:10:21.500 --> 3:10:22.780 And when you look at it, it's like, no, they're 3:10:22.820 --> 3:10:25.920 not like, they're actually a lot in some ways are 3:10:25.959 --> 3:10:27.920 a lot more similar to that than they are to 3:10:28.379 --> 3:10:30.199 the other protests, which have been going on, which is 3:10:30.280 --> 3:10:32.670 where I kind of want to, close this where we 3:10:32.690 --> 3:10:36.190 have also started to see the rest of French society 3:10:36.550 --> 3:10:41.620 move slowly in sort of line with the student protests where, 3:10:42.600 --> 3:10:45.279 you know, obviously part of the student protests are about 3:10:45.620 --> 3:10:50.960 this neoliberal kind of austerity budget that the Macron administration 3:10:50.980 --> 3:10:53.980 keeps trying to pass. And so there's also been a 3:10:54.420 --> 3:10:58.570 one-day strike of about like 300,000 workers from the sort 3:10:58.590 --> 3:11:04.250 of like traditional labor like leftist unions. Also, about 11% 3:11:04.250 --> 3:11:07.340 of teachers and faculty are now on strike in the 3:11:07.360 --> 3:11:10.840 middle of this too. So it remains to be seen 3:11:11.640 --> 3:11:14.780 exactly the extent to which the rest of the French 3:11:14.820 --> 3:11:17.500 left is going to join into these protests. I want 3:11:17.520 --> 3:11:20.140 to mention something briefly about schools here and why it's 3:11:20.180 --> 3:11:23.919 important that these are starting here, which is that schools 3:11:24.160 --> 3:11:28.540 are not just places where you get education. It's not 3:11:28.600 --> 3:11:32.000 just the basic part of like, the reproductive labor that 3:11:32.060 --> 3:11:34.800 reproduces capital. It's not just that it produces future workers, 3:11:35.580 --> 3:11:38.250 but it's also a place where like the basic care 3:11:38.280 --> 3:11:40.709 for students and the basic social reproduction of like children 3:11:41.310 --> 3:11:43.709 is carried out by the state, which allows workers to work. 3:11:44.650 --> 3:11:44.810 Right. 3:11:44.870 --> 3:11:47.920 And this is why shutting schools down is also a, 3:11:48.170 --> 3:11:52.170 a giant lever that allows you to like, like actually 3:11:52.250 --> 3:11:55.240 fully shutting down schools on mass is a lever that 3:11:55.260 --> 3:11:57.060 allows you to disrupt the rest of the economy because 3:11:57.080 --> 3:12:00.250 it forces parents to like not work because It's not 3:12:00.290 --> 3:12:02.190 exactly analogous, but it can serve the effect of what 3:12:02.209 --> 3:12:03.869 coal strikes used to, where if you shut down the 3:12:03.910 --> 3:12:05.530 supply of coal, it shuts down all of the workers 3:12:05.550 --> 3:12:08.199 down the line. Where if you force all of these 3:12:08.240 --> 3:12:10.380 parents to have to stay home, all of these workers 3:12:11.080 --> 3:12:13.840 are now also on strike as a sort of secondary 3:12:13.879 --> 3:12:15.620 thing of shutting these schools down. This is why the 3:12:15.640 --> 3:12:18.180 state always tries to make it really hard for teachers 3:12:18.250 --> 3:12:21.470 unions to strike, because schools are a lever of power 3:12:21.910 --> 3:12:23.390 that you can use in the labor system if you 3:12:23.470 --> 3:12:26.920 use them correctly. I want to close by mentioning that 3:12:27.480 --> 3:12:29.700 as this has been going on, there's been unrest building 3:12:29.740 --> 3:12:33.000 in France over, I mean, a whole bunch of things. 3:12:33.100 --> 3:12:34.699 There's a police bill I think we talked about on 3:12:34.740 --> 3:12:40.170 this show that is trying to allow the French police to... Basically, 3:12:40.190 --> 3:12:42.750 what it would do is it's a proposed bill that 3:12:42.870 --> 3:12:45.929 if it was passed, if a French police officer shot someone, 3:12:45.990 --> 3:12:49.030 they would be immediately assumed to have killed them legitimately. 3:12:49.650 --> 3:12:51.430 And then they would have to be proven that they 3:12:51.470 --> 3:12:54.330 illegitimately killed them instead of there being an investigation immediately. 3:12:55.200 --> 3:12:58.330 So it's a bill that says that if a cop 3:12:58.370 --> 3:13:00.530 drags you to an alley and shoots you and there's 3:13:00.570 --> 3:13:02.379 no one there, there's nothing you can do about it. 3:13:02.950 --> 3:13:08.250 That's been causing unrest. And one of the old sort 3:13:08.270 --> 3:13:10.090 of signals that's been set up in the middle of this, 3:13:10.110 --> 3:13:12.010 and it's unclear who is doing this, but there's been 3:13:12.030 --> 3:13:15.850 this giant call put out from these mass demonstrations on 3:13:15.890 --> 3:13:20.010 October 17th. And there's this question, you know, Crime Thing 3:13:20.030 --> 3:13:21.689 is talking about this. I've seen this in other places of, 3:13:22.150 --> 3:13:24.779 Are these student protests going to last until then, until 3:13:24.820 --> 3:13:26.940 that giant uprising? Are people going to come out into 3:13:26.959 --> 3:13:32.120 the streets before then? And at this point, all we 3:13:32.160 --> 3:13:37.170 can sort of do is wait. And also, I guess 3:13:37.270 --> 3:13:39.230 if you're in France, go now. You're not going to 3:13:39.250 --> 3:13:39.950 get a better shot. 3:13:40.270 --> 3:13:43.109 If you're trying to overthrow the government, stay in line, 3:13:43.470 --> 3:13:43.810 you know? 3:13:44.590 --> 3:13:48.940 Yeah. I want to end on one actual point. important 3:13:48.980 --> 3:13:50.840 note which is you see this a lot in the 3:13:50.879 --> 3:13:52.680 nature of french protest you see this in american protests 3:13:52.700 --> 3:13:56.520 where like one section of society will go into revolt 3:13:56.620 --> 3:13:59.490 and everyone else just kind of waits and you get 3:13:59.500 --> 3:14:02.170 these like cycles where like the people who were kind 3:14:02.190 --> 3:14:04.849 of who are in the streets and occupy like weren't 3:14:04.890 --> 3:14:07.050 the same people necessarily i mean some obviously there was 3:14:07.090 --> 3:14:09.050 crossover but they weren't the same section of society that 3:14:09.090 --> 3:14:12.050 went in like went into revolt in ferguson right they 3:14:12.070 --> 3:14:14.210 like waited until the next one was out or like 3:14:14.350 --> 3:14:17.440 you see this with like the British student movement. And 3:14:17.470 --> 3:14:20.410 then right after the British student movement kind of gets crushed, 3:14:20.750 --> 3:14:24.529 there's the riots in London in 2010. And you've seen 3:14:24.570 --> 3:14:26.830 this here, where there were a bunch of strikes by 3:14:26.850 --> 3:14:29.550 the organized left, and there was the yellow vests. And 3:14:29.610 --> 3:14:32.610 then when the suburbs went up in 2023, everyone else 3:14:32.629 --> 3:14:35.269 stayed home. And if you do that, they're going to 3:14:35.970 --> 3:14:37.570 line you up, and they're going to knock you out 3:14:37.709 --> 3:14:40.480 one at a time. And the only way... that you 3:14:40.500 --> 3:14:43.480 can win is like when one sector of society goes out, 3:14:43.620 --> 3:14:46.260 even if it's not yours, go with them. Don't leave, 3:14:46.310 --> 3:14:49.709 don't leave the kids to die alone. Like go support them, 3:14:49.730 --> 3:14:50.370 go fight with them. 3:14:51.450 --> 3:14:53.490 I do have something that's not on my script that 3:14:53.510 --> 3:14:56.290 I wanted to bring up really quickly because this just 3:14:56.370 --> 3:14:59.440 came out today. And I do think it's an important story. 3:15:00.120 --> 3:15:02.420 This happened back in August, but we didn't know about 3:15:02.440 --> 3:15:06.850 it until today. So, A congressional candidate in Arizona, Bernadette 3:15:06.950 --> 3:15:11.650 Green Placentia, who is running in Arizona's 8th congressional district 3:15:11.770 --> 3:15:16.550 and trying to unseat incumbent Republican Representative Abe Hamada, was 3:15:16.920 --> 3:15:20.770 raped in August while she was repairing a damaged campaign 3:15:20.830 --> 3:15:24.120 sign in Sun City. This was like a regular thing 3:15:24.160 --> 3:15:27.160 for her. Signs would get damaged, you know, either purposefully 3:15:27.220 --> 3:15:30.710 or just like by the climate. And she would go 3:15:30.790 --> 3:15:33.410 out and fix them in the morning. And one day 3:15:33.450 --> 3:15:35.390 when she was out doing this in August at about 3:15:35.390 --> 3:15:38.670 2 a.m., she was struck in the head and lost 3:15:38.740 --> 3:15:42.160 consciousness and regained consciousness to a man sexually assaulting her. 3:15:42.680 --> 3:15:44.880 She believes he had said something about her being a 3:15:44.940 --> 3:15:47.920 democratic bitch, although she's not 100 percent certain about what 3:15:47.959 --> 3:15:50.200 he was saying. I think this is just kind of 3:15:50.240 --> 3:15:52.260 an important thing for people to be aware of for 3:15:52.320 --> 3:15:52.980 obvious reasons. 3:15:53.600 --> 3:15:54.459 God, that's bleak. 3:15:54.740 --> 3:15:58.670 Yeah, it's pretty fucking horrifying. Anyway, this story came out 3:15:58.690 --> 3:16:00.670 within hours of us recording this, so I don't have 3:16:00.690 --> 3:16:03.129 much more on it than that. The way that we 3:16:03.170 --> 3:16:06.090 tend to talk about sexual violence, we tend to talk 3:16:06.140 --> 3:16:09.480 about it as something that's like an individual phenomena and 3:16:09.560 --> 3:16:13.839 not as a regime of violence that's done to discipline 3:16:13.860 --> 3:16:15.900 people into falling in line. 3:16:15.959 --> 3:16:20.800 And this is a really bleak and blatant example of like, 3:16:21.680 --> 3:16:24.720 oh yeah, no, sexual violence also is a social phenomena 3:16:24.760 --> 3:16:27.760 that is designed to keep people in line. And fuck that. 3:16:28.879 --> 3:16:31.500 I mean, it's just worth noting that, like, even in 3:16:31.540 --> 3:16:35.600 a position of, like, relative cultural power to certainly the 3:16:35.700 --> 3:16:38.770 average victim, she didn't feel safe coming out about what 3:16:38.790 --> 3:16:39.830 had happened to her for months. 3:16:40.530 --> 3:16:40.730 Yeah. 3:16:41.650 --> 3:16:47.990 So that's pretty worth acknowledging, too. Moving along, on October 4th, 2026, 3:16:47.990 --> 3:16:53.620 Russian public health regulator Rostov, Ross Patrin, Ross. Sorry, I 3:16:53.620 --> 3:16:54.720 guess it's going to take a second. 3:16:54.760 --> 3:16:56.820 This is a bad one. It looks rough. I'm not 3:16:56.980 --> 3:16:58.160 even going to try it. 3:16:58.420 --> 3:17:01.730 The Russian public health regulator, their equivalent of the Department 3:17:01.750 --> 3:17:03.869 of Health. I'm not going to try to say the name. 3:17:04.830 --> 3:17:07.949 You don't listen to this podcast because of my pronunciation 3:17:07.990 --> 3:17:10.990 of foreign languages, right? I'm not even going to try here. 3:17:11.550 --> 3:17:12.910 Famously our strongest suit. 3:17:13.550 --> 3:17:16.110 I've never seen a B and an N come together 3:17:16.129 --> 3:17:22.450 without a vowel. It's really soft. Yeah, there's some complicated 3:17:22.470 --> 3:17:24.390 phonetic shit going on in that word. 3:17:24.550 --> 3:17:26.850 Gnarly. Fascinating. 3:17:27.050 --> 3:17:30.050 Well, now I have to try to say it. Rospotrebnaz? 3:17:30.470 --> 3:17:32.379 Nadzor? Rospotrebnazor? 3:17:32.400 --> 3:17:32.820 Bnadzor? 3:17:34.440 --> 3:17:38.180 Yeah, the Russian Department of Health issued a public, sorry, 3:17:38.200 --> 3:17:39.690 it took a long time to get to the meat 3:17:39.730 --> 3:17:43.289 of this, issued a public statement that one employee of 3:17:43.350 --> 3:17:47.470 the Anti-Plague Institute of Siberia and the Far East had 3:17:47.570 --> 3:17:53.160 perished due to her accidental exposure to pneumonic plague. This employee, 3:17:53.180 --> 3:17:57.840 28-year-old Daria Shipilova, had apparently broken a vial containing plague 3:17:57.860 --> 3:18:02.700 bacteria and contracted the deadly disease. In short order, 200-some-odd 3:18:02.740 --> 3:18:05.830 people who had close contact with Daria before her death 3:18:05.890 --> 3:18:10.220 were isolated and put under observation. Multiple hospitals and other 3:18:10.240 --> 3:18:13.940 facilities in the area were closed and or put under observation. 3:18:14.540 --> 3:18:17.000 As news of this all trickled out into the wider world, 3:18:17.080 --> 3:18:19.480 people began to freak out. I think I first came 3:18:19.540 --> 3:18:22.199 across this story and like it was pushed to me. 3:18:22.209 --> 3:18:24.750 I don't even follow this subreddit, but the prepper subreddit 3:18:25.090 --> 3:18:27.750 like pushed it to me. People were freaking out about 3:18:27.810 --> 3:18:28.410 it so much. 3:18:28.530 --> 3:18:30.130 Right. Yeah, that makes sense. That makes sense. 3:18:30.510 --> 3:18:33.610 To be fair, this is not not worth being concerned about. 3:18:33.750 --> 3:18:34.010 Right. 3:18:34.270 --> 3:18:36.860 And I think this panic was an equal mix. of 3:18:36.940 --> 3:18:40.960 PTSD from COVID, and quite frankly, the enduring popularity of 3:18:41.020 --> 3:18:43.980 Stephen King's best novel, The Stand. I bring up The 3:18:44.040 --> 3:18:46.780 Stand because, I can't lie, I initially got a little 3:18:46.810 --> 3:18:50.150 worried because the way in which this started is exactly 3:18:50.200 --> 3:18:52.690 how the world-ending plague in The Stand begins. 3:18:52.990 --> 3:18:53.870 There's like a U.S. 3:18:53.930 --> 3:18:57.490 Scientist at a bioweapons lab who like, breaks a vial 3:18:57.570 --> 3:19:00.550 and it kills everybody and it escapes containment and it 3:19:00.590 --> 3:19:02.990 wipes out, you know, the whole world, right? And to 3:19:03.050 --> 3:19:05.430 be clear, this is the sort of story that should 3:19:05.480 --> 3:19:09.540 generate some anxiety. It's not unreasonable if you were concerned 3:19:09.580 --> 3:19:12.900 about this. But on closer inspection, I truly don't believe 3:19:12.940 --> 3:19:16.120 the specific case is worth freaking out over. For one thing, 3:19:16.160 --> 3:19:19.350 there's zero evidence that it has spread beyond its initial victim. 3:19:19.820 --> 3:19:22.400 It sounds scary to hear that hundreds of people have 3:19:22.440 --> 3:19:26.699 been contained after an accidental fatal plague exposure, but that's 3:19:26.760 --> 3:19:29.160 what you'd want the Russian government. 3:19:28.860 --> 3:19:31.820 Or any government to do, right? You would want them 3:19:31.900 --> 3:19:35.350 to take this kind of precaution, right? 3:19:35.570 --> 3:19:37.629 I don't normally say this about the Russian government, but 3:19:38.110 --> 3:19:42.769 they seem to be responding responsibly to this. They seem 3:19:42.790 --> 3:19:45.189 to have an understanding that you have to respond very 3:19:45.230 --> 3:19:46.410 seriously to this sort of thing. 3:19:47.020 --> 3:19:50.220 Yeah, and it being the Plague Institute where this happened 3:19:50.280 --> 3:19:52.960 does raise the odds of the people dealing with it 3:19:53.020 --> 3:19:53.750 knowing what to do. 3:19:54.310 --> 3:19:55.000 Right, right. 3:19:55.390 --> 3:19:58.250 It's the Plague Institute. And we'll talk a little bit 3:19:58.270 --> 3:20:00.090 more about that in a second. I do want to 3:20:00.129 --> 3:20:03.430 note here, so far, 60% of the people who have 3:20:03.450 --> 3:20:06.689 been detained have already been tested and been declared free 3:20:06.810 --> 3:20:08.849 of any sickness. And it seems like the rest are 3:20:08.910 --> 3:20:11.410 going to be given a good bill of health soon. 3:20:11.430 --> 3:20:13.990 A spokesperson for Russia's public health entity that I will 3:20:14.010 --> 3:20:16.850 not try to pronounce informed the New York Times. Laboratory 3:20:16.900 --> 3:20:19.680 tests have identified two cases of COVID-19 and two cases 3:20:19.700 --> 3:20:22.660 of rhinovirus infection or the common cold, the regulator said, 3:20:22.980 --> 3:20:26.440 according to the Interfax News Agency. No other infectious disease 3:20:26.500 --> 3:20:29.030 pathogens were detected in any of the contacts. Sorry, it 3:20:29.050 --> 3:20:31.590 wasn't directly to the Times, it was to Interfax. And 3:20:31.730 --> 3:20:34.050 you do have to imagine that those, like, four people 3:20:34.090 --> 3:20:36.810 who had the cold or COVID were, like, freaking the 3:20:37.070 --> 3:20:37.420 fuck out. 3:20:37.430 --> 3:20:39.970 Yeah, yeah. First, they're like, oh, my God, is this 3:20:40.050 --> 3:20:43.900 the end? Worst days of your life. I don't think. 3:20:43.840 --> 3:20:46.420 Sniffles are a sign of the pneumonic plague, but I 3:20:46.440 --> 3:20:49.500 would imagine you're not thinking super logically in this instance. 3:20:49.520 --> 3:20:49.760 Yeah. 3:20:50.060 --> 3:20:55.140 Now, the pneumonic plague is insanely deadly. It has a 71% 3:20:55.140 --> 3:20:58.760 case fatality rate. For some idea of how bad that is, 3:20:59.170 --> 3:21:02.890 the case fatality rate for Ebola is only around 50%, right? 3:21:02.910 --> 3:21:02.990 Yeah. 3:21:05.280 --> 3:21:07.840 Although rates in past outbreaks have varied wildly, there's a 3:21:07.900 --> 3:21:11.340 lot of factors that can influence that. Ebola case fatality 3:21:11.400 --> 3:21:15.779 rates in different outbreaks have been anywhere from 25% to 90%, right? 3:21:16.160 --> 3:21:18.519 There's different variants of Ebola, right? Just as we don't 3:21:18.560 --> 3:21:20.910 exactly know what variant of the pneumonic plague this is, right? 3:21:20.940 --> 3:21:23.250 It might actually have a lower or higher case fatality rate. 3:21:23.520 --> 3:21:26.030 This may be the only case of someone getting infected 3:21:26.050 --> 3:21:28.910 with this specific strain of pneumonic plague that we have. 3:21:28.970 --> 3:21:31.470 I don't know that we really know exactly what she has. 3:21:32.030 --> 3:21:35.750 But yeah, this is a scary, deadly plague. But that 3:21:35.790 --> 3:21:38.720 also makes the case that, like, if it had broken containment, 3:21:38.950 --> 3:21:41.440 there would be way more sick and dying people by now. 3:21:41.560 --> 3:21:44.840 And given the overall competence of the Russian state, if 3:21:44.879 --> 3:21:48.220 this was an out-of-control plague in Siberia, I don't think 3:21:48.260 --> 3:21:51.420 they'd be able to keep this locked down very long, right? 3:21:52.120 --> 3:21:52.400 No. 3:21:53.140 --> 3:21:53.359 No. 3:21:54.020 --> 3:21:57.300 If 71% of people exposed to this were dying, right, 3:21:57.740 --> 3:21:59.880 like had contracted it and were dying, I don't think 3:21:59.900 --> 3:22:01.539 they'd be able to keep this. I'm like, we'd be 3:22:01.560 --> 3:22:04.020 able to keep this thing secret, right? The other thing 3:22:04.040 --> 3:22:05.940 I should point out is that scary as that case 3:22:05.990 --> 3:22:08.870 fatality rate is, that's not the only thing that should 3:22:08.930 --> 3:22:12.590 make a disease worrying to you, right? That's super worrying 3:22:12.690 --> 3:22:16.990 if you catch it, but pneumonic plague is not widely transmissible. 3:22:17.290 --> 3:22:19.670 Think back to COVID. If one person on a bus 3:22:19.730 --> 3:22:22.000 or a plane or in a room has COVID and sneezes, 3:22:22.360 --> 3:22:24.340 not back to you, but think, I mean, COVID's still here. 3:22:24.720 --> 3:22:27.119 If one person in a room has COVID and sneezes, 3:22:27.720 --> 3:22:29.879 a bunch of people around them have a very good 3:22:29.920 --> 3:22:32.740 chance of getting infected, especially if they're not vaccinated, right? 3:22:33.300 --> 3:22:36.620 Pneumonic plague does not work this way. There's a very 3:22:36.680 --> 3:22:40.770 good CNN interview with virologist Angela Rasmussen, and she points 3:22:40.850 --> 3:22:43.570 out that this plague variant requires a lot of contact 3:22:43.610 --> 3:22:46.770 with the infected person. And even someone dying of plague 3:22:46.830 --> 3:22:49.610 is not coughing up a bunch of infectious material, right? 3:22:49.650 --> 3:22:52.869 It's just not the same kind of illness in any way, shape, 3:22:52.930 --> 3:22:55.880 or form. This is why none of the contained people 3:22:55.920 --> 3:22:58.580 who were close to Daria have gotten sick. Pneumonic plague 3:22:58.620 --> 3:23:02.910 victims are not super infectious. That interview with Dr. Rasmussen 3:23:02.950 --> 3:23:05.810 also brought up a very good point. This anti-plague lab 3:23:05.870 --> 3:23:09.289 is being described often as like a bioweapons factory. And 3:23:09.310 --> 3:23:12.410 the Russian state has surely done weapons research at this 3:23:12.490 --> 3:23:14.970 and other similar facilities. I'm not going to doubt that. 3:23:15.740 --> 3:23:18.540 But if absolutely no one anywhere on planet Earth was 3:23:18.580 --> 3:23:22.720 doing any bioreapons research, this facility would still exist because 3:23:22.820 --> 3:23:24.660 plague is endemic to the region. 3:23:24.920 --> 3:23:25.520 Right. Right. 3:23:25.720 --> 3:23:28.119 It's not there's not plague in this facility because the 3:23:28.150 --> 3:23:31.189 Russian government loves cooking up plague. It's because this part 3:23:31.209 --> 3:23:34.470 of Siberia, tons of animals have the plague and people 3:23:34.510 --> 3:23:35.550 get plague all. 3:23:35.430 --> 3:23:38.140 The time in this part of the world. This is 3:23:38.160 --> 3:23:39.900 the exact same thing with like Wuhan and like the 3:23:40.040 --> 3:23:42.020 Wuhan CDC there, which is like, yeah, there's a bunch 3:23:42.040 --> 3:23:45.730 of infectious disease research there because that's a bunch of 3:23:45.750 --> 3:23:47.670 bats there. This is where you do it. 3:23:48.030 --> 3:23:48.250 Yeah. 3:23:48.290 --> 3:23:50.030 You put you put the lab in the place where 3:23:50.050 --> 3:23:50.730 stuff is happening. 3:23:51.190 --> 3:23:51.550 Right. 3:23:51.590 --> 3:23:51.940 Study it. 3:23:52.510 --> 3:23:57.030 And yeah, plague is carried by animals. And by the way, Siberia, 3:23:57.090 --> 3:23:59.210 this part of eastern Russia is not the only place 3:23:59.250 --> 3:24:03.100 where plague is super endemic. The Midwestern U.S. is riddled 3:24:03.160 --> 3:24:06.420 with plague carrying prairie dogs and occasionally a person here. 3:24:06.459 --> 3:24:06.619 Yeah. 3:24:06.980 --> 3:24:07.680 Right. California. 3:24:07.720 --> 3:24:09.080 I'm not saying that's not the end. Those aren't the 3:24:09.140 --> 3:24:12.260 only animals that can give you plague. Occasionally, a person 3:24:12.280 --> 3:24:14.820 will catch bubonic plague in this country, which is a 3:24:14.920 --> 3:24:17.720 variant of the same disease as pneumonic plague, and they'll 3:24:17.740 --> 3:24:20.529 get it from, you know, some fucking animal. you may 3:24:20.610 --> 3:24:22.880 recall that the whole U.S. has not been wiped out 3:24:22.920 --> 3:24:25.060 by an outbreak of the bubonic plague. This is because 3:24:25.100 --> 3:24:28.480 the bubonic plague is super treatable, but also not super 3:24:28.660 --> 3:24:31.840 easy to spread in the modern world. This may sound 3:24:31.910 --> 3:24:34.410 weird given that bubonic plague wiped out much of Europe, 3:24:34.430 --> 3:24:37.290 but that was because the primary vectors for plague are 3:24:37.370 --> 3:24:41.949 wild animals that bite people and fleas from infected animals. 3:24:42.390 --> 3:24:45.470 The OG plague took centuries to get its teeth into 3:24:45.510 --> 3:24:48.300 the populace and only succeeded because back then people lived 3:24:48.360 --> 3:24:51.560 in super close contact with livestock and had no real 3:24:51.600 --> 3:24:53.740 way of dealing with fleas. And we also didn't have 3:24:53.780 --> 3:24:54.640 like antibiotics. 3:24:54.920 --> 3:24:55.180 Right. 3:24:55.560 --> 3:24:55.900 Yeah. 3:24:56.000 --> 3:24:58.520 You know, there's a there's a ton of reasons why 3:24:58.580 --> 3:25:01.890 that that happened then. And it doesn't happen now. Now, 3:25:01.920 --> 3:25:05.250 not to say. a treatment-resistant form of the plague that's 3:25:05.330 --> 3:25:09.910 more infectious couldn't spread and evolve under these conditions. There's 3:25:09.930 --> 3:25:12.450 just not any evidence that that's happened yet, right? And 3:25:12.490 --> 3:25:14.830 so I would say this is not really something that 3:25:14.850 --> 3:25:16.890 should be on your front burner of concern. 3:25:17.370 --> 3:25:20.350 And, like, in terms of, like, where a disease like 3:25:20.379 --> 3:25:23.119 this would come from, this is something that Angelus, like, 3:25:23.160 --> 3:25:26.560 talked about before. Like, the odds that this comes from 3:25:26.580 --> 3:25:30.380 a bioweapons lab is significantly lower than the odds that 3:25:30.400 --> 3:25:33.750 it comes from just, like, a factory farm. where you 3:25:33.770 --> 3:25:35.890 have all these animals in really close containment and diseases 3:25:35.910 --> 3:25:40.279 spread extremely fast and get to mutate extremely quickly. That's 3:25:40.320 --> 3:25:44.700 like the primary disease factor risk is that and the 3:25:44.760 --> 3:25:45.900 human contact in the wild. 3:25:46.540 --> 3:25:49.200 Yeah, that's a great point, Mia. And we should probably 3:25:49.260 --> 3:25:51.680 move to ads right now. And then when we come back, 3:25:51.860 --> 3:25:55.130 I will talk about Brazil, which is honestly a little 3:25:55.150 --> 3:25:56.550 more worrying than the plague right now. 3:26:07.220 --> 3:26:08.080 And we're back. 3:26:09.160 --> 3:26:12.820 So moving across the world to what some people call 3:26:12.840 --> 3:26:16.260 the Russia of South America. Not me and not anyone 3:26:16.330 --> 3:26:19.429 I know. But you could call Brazil that. It wouldn't 3:26:19.470 --> 3:26:21.490 be very accurate, but you could call them that. 3:26:21.510 --> 3:26:21.970 It's big. 3:26:22.310 --> 3:26:26.190 Flavio Bolsonaro emerged ahead of the current Brazilian President Lula 3:26:26.290 --> 3:26:29.550 in the first round of voting. Neither candidate emerged with 3:26:29.590 --> 3:26:32.250 an outright majority, so the election will proceed to a runoff. 3:26:32.290 --> 3:26:34.860 But most experts seem to consider Flavio's victory all but 3:26:34.879 --> 3:26:38.480 a foregone conclusion at this point. Political consulting firm Think 3:26:38.580 --> 3:26:39.940 Policy told Reuters they had. 3:26:40.030 --> 3:26:41.029 estimated Lula. 3:26:40.770 --> 3:26:44.070 Would need to win 62% of voters who supported other 3:26:44.129 --> 3:26:46.529 conservative candidates in the first round of voting to have 3:26:46.570 --> 3:26:50.030 a chance. This does not seem likely. If you read 3:26:50.080 --> 3:26:52.140 a lot of coverage of this election, one thing you'll 3:26:52.180 --> 3:26:54.699 encounter is that every expert on Brazilian politics is very 3:26:54.740 --> 3:26:57.740 convinced that Flavio's presidency will be an extension of Jair 3:26:57.760 --> 3:27:01.610 Bolsonaro's presidency. A lot of Brazilian voters are convinced, and 3:27:01.690 --> 3:27:03.910 in fact, it's probable that most people who voted for 3:27:03.950 --> 3:27:08.690 Flavio did so because they wanted another term for Jair, right? 3:27:09.110 --> 3:27:11.950 Flavio himself said at a recent rally, I ask God 3:27:12.000 --> 3:27:14.700 for the opportunity to walk up the ramp of Planalto 3:27:14.740 --> 3:27:18.599 Palace next year alongside President Jair Omecia's Bolsonaro, right? 3:27:18.920 --> 3:27:19.320 It's a pretty. 3:27:19.700 --> 3:27:24.000 Pretty clear signposting there. Jair is currently serving a 27 3:27:24.000 --> 3:27:27.480 year sentence from house arrest. He is legally forbidden from 3:27:27.520 --> 3:27:30.110 holding office again as a result of his conviction over. 3:27:29.990 --> 3:27:30.730 The coup attempt. 3:27:31.230 --> 3:27:34.070 Flavio has promised to seek amnesty for not just his father, 3:27:34.129 --> 3:27:36.950 but for the rioters who marched on Brazil's capital to 3:27:36.970 --> 3:27:39.920 keep his father in office. He's also promised to impeach 3:27:39.980 --> 3:27:43.220 the Supreme Court justices who ruled against Jair and his supporters. 3:27:43.810 --> 3:27:46.790 This is deeply concerning for a number of reasons. I 3:27:46.810 --> 3:27:48.630 want to quote from a New York Times article that 3:27:48.670 --> 3:27:51.880 came out today on the subject. The Bolsonaro family's comeback 3:27:51.950 --> 3:27:55.140 mirrors the enduring hold of other powerful political dynasties around 3:27:55.180 --> 3:27:58.320 the world, including the Marquesas in the Philippines, the Sharifs 3:27:58.379 --> 3:28:02.720 in Pakistan, the Fujimoris in Peru, and the Kirchners in Argentina. 3:28:03.080 --> 3:28:03.500 But Mr. 3:28:03.580 --> 3:28:06.470 Lula's political movement has failed to produce a successor and 3:28:06.520 --> 3:28:09.030 appears to have lost touch with its base as many 3:28:09.070 --> 3:28:11.510 Brazilians link it to corruption and government mismanagement. 3:28:12.050 --> 3:28:12.390 If Mr. 3:28:12.410 --> 3:28:15.250 Bolsonaro now succeeds in unseating his leftist rival in the 3:28:15.290 --> 3:28:18.650 October 25th runoff, he would gain unusually broad powers to 3:28:18.690 --> 3:28:20.869 shape Brazil. The next president will be able to appoint 3:28:21.000 --> 3:28:23.500 up to four new justices in this nation's Supreme Court, 3:28:23.620 --> 3:28:27.120 which has 11 seats in total. So one thing that's 3:28:27.180 --> 3:28:30.380 really worrying about this is that Flavio and, you know, 3:28:31.040 --> 3:28:34.560 Jair kind of through the transit of property will have 3:28:34.640 --> 3:28:38.490 nearly total power. When he takes office, for a lot 3:28:38.530 --> 3:28:41.750 of very frustrating reasons to do with the way Brazil's 3:28:42.060 --> 3:28:45.920 democracy is structured, there's very little, if anything, in the 3:28:45.980 --> 3:28:52.800 way of constitutional governing rails that would limit what Flavio 3:28:52.840 --> 3:28:57.759 can do. This is an extremely concerning situation. It's very dispiriting. 3:28:57.780 --> 3:29:01.870 It's a good reason not to listen to, quite frankly, 3:29:02.310 --> 3:29:07.740 most of the Western left's takes on things. politics outside of, 3:29:08.520 --> 3:29:11.190 and sometimes including the United States. Because if you would 3:29:11.230 --> 3:29:14.030 listen to what people were saying about Lula prior to this, 3:29:14.190 --> 3:29:18.470 it's entirely like he's this wonderful, like leftist hero. And 3:29:18.970 --> 3:29:21.050 the reality is, you know, Lula has done some great things. 3:29:21.110 --> 3:29:24.550 He has some great political stances, but you can't look 3:29:24.610 --> 3:29:26.910 at his regime as anything but a failure if it's 3:29:26.970 --> 3:29:31.300 led to Bolsonarism, right? It failed to stop this, you know? 3:29:31.790 --> 3:29:35.810 It just says twice Biden failed, just as Clinton failed. Right. 3:29:35.870 --> 3:29:38.810 Just as Obama failed to stop the rise of Trump. 3:29:39.310 --> 3:29:39.529 Right. 3:29:39.750 --> 3:29:43.670 We can't pretend that in this case, because we can 3:29:43.730 --> 3:29:46.950 ignore the downsides and the failures of Lula's regime because 3:29:46.970 --> 3:29:47.990 we don't live in Brazil. 3:29:48.400 --> 3:29:51.240 That like he didn't fail. He did. 3:29:51.560 --> 3:29:54.539 You know, and and that's just something the left has 3:29:54.560 --> 3:29:57.580 to grapple with. Like this is a guy who said 3:29:57.640 --> 3:29:59.140 and did a lot of the right things and who 3:29:59.180 --> 3:30:05.280 went pretty hard after prosecuting. and it was a catastrophic failure. 3:30:05.860 --> 3:30:06.760 I don't know what else to say. 3:30:07.500 --> 3:30:11.220 Yeah, I mean, I think something I've talked about, back 3:30:11.280 --> 3:30:14.840 in the last election, I did a very long series 3:30:14.860 --> 3:30:17.010 of episodes on Lula, and one of the sort of 3:30:17.030 --> 3:30:19.970 structural problems of the program of the Workers' Party was 3:30:19.990 --> 3:30:22.709 that it was always dependent on the commodity boom and 3:30:23.570 --> 3:30:25.250 the massive export prices you get from that. And the 3:30:25.300 --> 3:30:28.459 moment the commodity boom collapsed, the entire project was on 3:30:28.520 --> 3:30:32.300 borrowed time, Because it became impossible to do the kind of, like, 3:30:32.840 --> 3:30:36.340 sort of class negotiation of redistributing a bunch of the 3:30:36.379 --> 3:30:40.180 profits from the commodities they were selling overseas and, like, 3:30:40.280 --> 3:30:44.690 raising living conditions for people while paying off Bolivia's sort of, like, 3:30:44.870 --> 3:30:48.929 oligarchical ruling class. And the moment that coalition fell apart, 3:30:50.410 --> 3:30:52.530 you know, everything went to shit. And the problem is, like, 3:30:52.550 --> 3:30:56.710 there isn't really a way to deal with Bolsonaro without, like, 3:30:57.250 --> 3:31:01.430 systemically going through and, like, destroying the media oligarchy and 3:31:01.650 --> 3:31:04.230 a whole bunch of different sectors of the Brazilian ruling class, 3:31:04.530 --> 3:31:08.890 but Lula wasn't... It was a difficult position for them 3:31:09.050 --> 3:31:11.390 even in the 2000s when they had a really, really 3:31:11.470 --> 3:31:15.490 strong political mandate, and there wasn't any way to do 3:31:15.590 --> 3:31:20.290 it even if they'd wanted to under the last electoral coalition, 3:31:20.310 --> 3:31:22.270 which was this very fragile coalition with a bunch of 3:31:22.770 --> 3:31:30.010 anti-Bolsonaro conservatives and this... weird parliamentary left center, right coalition 3:31:30.230 --> 3:31:31.670 that ended up with a bunch of sort of like 3:31:32.580 --> 3:31:37.099 very shitty, like neoliberal economic policy going through that, like 3:31:37.220 --> 3:31:41.720 just continue to enable sort of Bolsonaro ism. And yeah, 3:31:41.760 --> 3:31:44.080 you have to grapple with like, if you aren't able 3:31:44.120 --> 3:31:47.930 to fundamentally destroy like the material basis of your opponents, 3:31:47.950 --> 3:31:50.630 they're eventually going to overthrow you and you're going to 3:31:50.650 --> 3:31:51.110 be back here. 3:31:51.129 --> 3:31:51.769 Yep. 3:31:52.209 --> 3:31:52.429 Yep. 3:31:52.629 --> 3:31:53.900 It's, uh, I don't know. 3:31:54.060 --> 3:31:57.420 It's disappointing. We'll have more coverage on this in the 3:31:57.480 --> 3:32:00.680 future because this is really important, right? Just as it's 3:32:00.730 --> 3:32:04.290 very important to look at what's happening in Hungary right 3:32:04.330 --> 3:32:07.789 now as like an example of what a post-Trump United 3:32:07.830 --> 3:32:10.390 States might look like. It's very important to look at 3:32:10.629 --> 3:32:14.390 Lula's and his coalition's failures in terms of like, well, 3:32:14.990 --> 3:32:18.650 number one, this also does mirror in some ways mirrors 3:32:18.709 --> 3:32:21.769 what happened with Biden. But this is also evidence of 3:32:21.830 --> 3:32:25.600 like You don't want to take anything too directly because, again, 3:32:25.620 --> 3:32:28.350 these are all very different countries and very different from 3:32:28.390 --> 3:32:31.629 the United States. But there are some there are some 3:32:31.770 --> 3:32:35.490 lessons here for the entire world and like how hard 3:32:35.530 --> 3:32:41.750 it is to unseat an authoritarian regime that is entirely 3:32:41.830 --> 3:32:47.020 predicated on making stupid, easy promises to people. Right. as 3:32:47.080 --> 3:32:50.379 opposed to coalitions that are attempting to do the very 3:32:50.459 --> 3:32:55.900 difficult job of governing. And that you're always going to 3:32:55.959 --> 3:32:58.180 be in an uphill battle if the other guy is 3:32:58.300 --> 3:33:02.580 just spouting fantasies. And if the media goes along with it, 3:33:02.600 --> 3:33:03.610 that's a huge part of it. 3:33:03.660 --> 3:33:07.440 The media aspect is a huge part of this. As 3:33:08.000 --> 3:33:09.680 much as this is a warning for us going forward, 3:33:09.700 --> 3:33:12.590 I think this is an example of like, What if 3:33:12.650 --> 3:33:15.330 someone even much more progressive than Joe Biden would take 3:33:15.390 --> 3:33:16.500 office in 2028? 3:33:16.500 --> 3:33:18.760 What if we get a sort of ineffectual... social. 3:33:18.540 --> 3:33:21.609 Democratic administration right who who might who might actually do 3:33:21.670 --> 3:33:22.310 some things that. 3:33:22.270 --> 3:33:24.750 Are might say the right things and fail and. 3:33:25.010 --> 3:33:26.950 Or and might even do things that are kind of. 3:33:26.910 --> 3:33:30.110 Sensible might might actually put forward some good policies yeah 3:33:30.550 --> 3:33:33.459 but that just not end up mattering because of whatever 3:33:33.680 --> 3:33:36.400 whatever kind of structural limitations they hit whatever kind of 3:33:36.580 --> 3:33:39.880 uh media narratives really really take hold uh you you 3:33:39.920 --> 3:33:42.670 see this kind of really big focus on like and 3:33:42.730 --> 3:33:46.270 corruption on the right right now. That's a big part 3:33:46.310 --> 3:33:48.850 of what government is supposed to do. And this is 3:33:48.870 --> 3:33:50.990 something that Zoran has tried to take by the horns 3:33:51.030 --> 3:33:54.030 and try to make sure that the right can't fully 3:33:54.110 --> 3:33:56.400 co-opt that sort of language. Be like, if we want 3:33:56.420 --> 3:33:59.459 to have a a socialist or a social democratic government. 3:33:59.840 --> 3:34:01.660 It needs to be efficient, and that should be actually 3:34:01.820 --> 3:34:02.600 real efficiency. 3:34:03.160 --> 3:34:05.539 I continue to think one of the things that any 3:34:05.640 --> 3:34:09.990 leftist movement trying to unseat authoritarianism in the United States 3:34:10.050 --> 3:34:13.990 particularly needs to have as a central issue is fighting 3:34:14.129 --> 3:34:15.750 fraud and fighting scams. 3:34:16.070 --> 3:34:16.209 Yeah. 3:34:16.770 --> 3:34:19.550 Almost nothing is more important from an electoral standpoint, in 3:34:19.590 --> 3:34:20.090 my opinion. 3:34:20.390 --> 3:34:20.629 Yeah. 3:34:21.190 --> 3:34:25.470 There's a new poll from KFF looking at issues that 3:34:25.730 --> 3:34:29.490 voters care about for the midterms cost of living is 3:34:29.510 --> 3:34:33.130 the top issue for democratic and independent voters yeah while 3:34:33.209 --> 3:34:38.040 republican voters while republican voters want candidates to discuss quote 3:34:38.220 --> 3:34:41.820 fraud and i think that's a really interesting look at 3:34:41.860 --> 3:34:44.740 where we are right now as a country yeah. 3:34:44.580 --> 3:34:46.410 I think i think tying this back to brazil too 3:34:46.440 --> 3:34:48.150 like this is one of the problems that the pt 3:34:48.190 --> 3:34:50.810 the workers party had was like the way that the 3:34:50.830 --> 3:34:55.170 media was able to steer like all anti-corruption stuff in Brazil, 3:34:55.330 --> 3:34:58.410 like ended up going after the workers party, even though 3:34:58.709 --> 3:35:01.420 all of the corruption scandals implicated literally everyone across the 3:35:01.440 --> 3:35:02.420 entire political spectrum. 3:35:02.720 --> 3:35:02.920 Yeah. 3:35:03.240 --> 3:35:04.840 Like this is part of what happened this election where like, 3:35:04.860 --> 3:35:07.520 there's a bunch of fraud scandals with like the Supreme court, 3:35:07.920 --> 3:35:11.300 but that's been like tied to Lula. And he's the 3:35:11.320 --> 3:35:12.720 one who's taken the hit from it, even though it 3:35:12.760 --> 3:35:16.110 also involves like all of the right-wing political parties. And that's, 3:35:16.150 --> 3:35:18.420 that's like one of the dangers of sort of, I 3:35:18.459 --> 3:35:20.420 don't know, it's like one of the persistent problems of 3:35:21.060 --> 3:35:24.100 the way that fraud and the way that anti-corruption politics 3:35:24.160 --> 3:35:29.160 get deployed by the right. That's just this decades-long issue. 3:35:29.840 --> 3:35:32.320 Another weird example of this is that the mayor of 3:35:32.340 --> 3:35:36.340 New York went on to a podcast by a guy 3:35:36.360 --> 3:35:38.560 named Theo Vaughn, if you're familiar. 3:35:38.740 --> 3:35:42.179 Yeah, I know Theo Vaughn. Jesus Christ, yeah. 3:35:42.550 --> 3:35:45.930 And one interesting thing that happened is Zoran was talking 3:35:45.950 --> 3:35:50.600 about how the city just secured a historic $ 130 million 3:35:50.680 --> 3:35:53.560 settlement from DoorDash. And $ 115 million of that is going 3:35:53.580 --> 3:35:57.340 to go directly to DoorDash workers, who DoorDash was underpaying 3:35:57.400 --> 3:36:01.990 for years, with workers receiving anywhere between $ 500 to thousands 3:36:02.000 --> 3:36:05.449 of dollars in pay that was stolen from them. But 3:36:05.570 --> 3:36:09.289 part of this settlement is also $ 16 million in civil 3:36:09.310 --> 3:36:12.830 penalties and funding to build this tool, which will be 3:36:12.870 --> 3:36:16.439 operated by the city and workers to monitor DoorDash To 3:36:16.480 --> 3:36:18.740 make sure that they don't rip off their workers going forward. 3:36:19.040 --> 3:36:22.060 And something that was very interesting. When Theo heard that, 3:36:22.100 --> 3:36:25.710 he's like, why? Why would you use that money? Why 3:36:25.750 --> 3:36:29.330 not just give that money to the workers? He kind 3:36:29.350 --> 3:36:33.480 of inquired. about this as a possible example of fraud. 3:36:33.740 --> 3:36:36.959 Why is the city taking $ 16 million? Is it actually 3:36:36.980 --> 3:36:39.660 going to be good, or is that another example of 3:36:39.700 --> 3:36:42.879 fraud and corruption? And I think that's a really interesting 3:36:42.959 --> 3:36:48.320 look at the mind of the kind of right-wing focus 3:36:48.459 --> 3:36:50.700 on fraud. Of like, no, that money is actually going 3:36:50.740 --> 3:36:52.900 to build a tool to make sure that DoorDash cannot 3:36:52.980 --> 3:36:56.470 defraud its own workers going forward and will be operated 3:36:56.510 --> 3:36:59.550 by the city and workers themselves. But it's a really 3:36:59.670 --> 3:37:04.629 interesting look at this sort of distrust. And even in 3:37:04.670 --> 3:37:05.970 something like a $ 130 million settlement. 3:37:08.740 --> 3:37:11.820 Just, you know, historically, that's the largest worker, like, labor 3:37:11.840 --> 3:37:13.180 settlement in municipal history. 3:37:13.200 --> 3:37:14.760 That's massive, yeah. 3:37:15.220 --> 3:37:17.360 Even in that, there's this kind of, like, you know, 3:37:17.379 --> 3:37:20.940 like a worry in the mind of the right that 3:37:20.980 --> 3:37:23.020 somehow this will be used for, you know, fraudulent means. 3:37:23.360 --> 3:37:23.620 Yeah. 3:37:24.260 --> 3:37:26.920 I do want to reiterate here, like, when I say that, like, 3:37:27.120 --> 3:37:29.619 Lula failed, that's not even coming from a point of necessarily, like, 3:37:29.720 --> 3:37:30.920 moral condemnation. 3:37:30.980 --> 3:37:34.080 It's just like... We lost. We have to be factual. 3:37:34.140 --> 3:37:36.150 It didn't work. We have to look at what went 3:37:36.200 --> 3:37:36.730 wrong here. 3:37:36.780 --> 3:37:39.940 You can't just pretend that this... This was a good 3:37:40.620 --> 3:37:44.849 presidency because he said the right things and went after Bolsonaro. 3:37:44.890 --> 3:37:47.660 We lost, right? We have to deal with that. We 3:37:47.680 --> 3:37:49.680 have to play the ball where it fucking lies, right? 3:37:50.470 --> 3:37:50.810 Anyway. 3:37:51.250 --> 3:37:55.270 Let's talk about Dennis Hastert, huh? Everybody loves old Denny. 3:37:55.330 --> 3:37:58.949 Denny was his nickname. Unfortunately, too many people still do 3:37:59.030 --> 3:37:59.450 love Denny. 3:37:59.470 --> 3:38:00.590 Yeah, Jesus Christ. 3:38:00.810 --> 3:38:04.150 Yeah, a lot of people sharing our profession have some 3:38:04.190 --> 3:38:08.369 serious fucking issues. Multiple articles that I've read today all 3:38:08.430 --> 3:38:10.970 pointed out that he went by the nickname Denny and 3:38:11.010 --> 3:38:14.910 was considered a very cool and approachable Republican Speaker of 3:38:14.950 --> 3:38:15.250 the House. 3:38:15.270 --> 3:38:18.030 Oh, I'm sure. Yeah, he was real approachable. He was 3:38:18.110 --> 3:38:19.930 approaching some fucking other people. 3:38:20.879 --> 3:38:24.859 I'm saying this because Dennis Hastert, the longest serving Republican 3:38:24.910 --> 3:38:28.609 speaker of the House and a serial pedophile, died earlier 3:38:28.670 --> 3:38:32.830 this week on October 5th. Hastert's legacy, such as it was, 3:38:33.220 --> 3:38:36.400 was ruined after he left office when regulators noticed a 3:38:36.420 --> 3:38:40.000 bunch of really weirdly structured payments that he initially characterized 3:38:40.040 --> 3:38:43.820 as blackmail payments based on false allegations. Oh, some guy 3:38:44.340 --> 3:38:47.619 made me, you know, is blackmailing me and it's all bullshit, 3:38:47.680 --> 3:38:50.590 but it's just easier to pay. This was a lie. 3:38:50.709 --> 3:38:53.130 The payments were to a man who, as a boy, 3:38:53.170 --> 3:38:56.570 had been molested and I think raped by Dennis. This 3:38:56.590 --> 3:38:59.210 was during his time as a high school wrestling coach. 3:38:59.750 --> 3:39:03.550 This guy was 14 when Hastert abused him, and when 3:39:03.610 --> 3:39:06.379 he approached the former Speaker of the House decades later, 3:39:06.670 --> 3:39:10.879 Hastert agreed to buy his silence with $ 3. 5 million in 3:39:10.940 --> 3:39:13.660 hush money. This is not an amount you would spend on, like, 3:39:13.780 --> 3:39:16.360 bullshit blackmail allegations, right? 3:39:16.640 --> 3:39:19.320 This is a fortune. Yeah, that's a lot of money. 3:39:19.440 --> 3:39:23.000 The financial crimes are the only ones Hastert was actually 3:39:23.060 --> 3:39:25.780 convicted over. His abuse of his students had occurred too 3:39:25.840 --> 3:39:28.610 long ago. The statute of limitations was up. But the 3:39:28.629 --> 3:39:32.570 resulting investigation and court case revealed at least four victims. 3:39:32.650 --> 3:39:35.570 And I don't know that I know of any convicted 3:39:35.890 --> 3:39:40.350 pedophiles who had four victims and only four victims, right? 3:39:40.450 --> 3:39:43.109 Yeah, once you're doing it a lot. Four came forward. 3:39:43.140 --> 3:39:45.300 This is a guy who was abusing kids in his 3:39:45.420 --> 3:39:49.220 years-long time as a wrestling coach. 3:39:49.240 --> 3:39:50.500 He had other victims. 3:39:51.250 --> 3:39:56.090 The judge in that case declared him a serial child molester. Now, 3:39:56.240 --> 3:39:58.920 the kind of abuse he engaged in varied. Sort of 3:39:58.980 --> 3:40:01.459 the most common thing that he did was he had 3:40:01.500 --> 3:40:04.160 a recliner that he set up outside of the boys' 3:40:04.240 --> 3:40:04.879 locker room. 3:40:05.320 --> 3:40:07.050 What? Jesus. 3:40:07.340 --> 3:40:10.890 He also engaged in fondling and outright rape on at 3:40:10.950 --> 3:40:13.690 least one occasion in the form of forced oral sex. 3:40:14.129 --> 3:40:17.890 Make no mistake, Dennis Hastert was a serial child rapist 3:40:17.990 --> 3:40:22.000 and molester. During his court case, he stated that, I 3:40:22.050 --> 3:40:24.289 want to apologize to the boys I mistreated when I 3:40:24.330 --> 3:40:26.250 was their coach, and the sisters of one of the 3:40:26.290 --> 3:40:29.009 victims said to him, Don't be a coward, Mr. 3:40:29.070 --> 3:40:29.510 Hastert. 3:40:29.790 --> 3:40:32.730 Tell the truth. What you did wasn't misconduct. It was 3:40:32.790 --> 3:40:34.210 sexual abuse of a minor. 3:40:34.950 --> 3:40:36.000 Now, that was. 3:40:36.820 --> 3:40:39.870 Solid speak it out in court on her part. A 3:40:40.350 --> 3:40:43.429 lot of journalists and media figures could stand to take 3:40:43.490 --> 3:40:47.610 a lesson from that. The AP's obituary for him just read, 3:40:47.650 --> 3:40:50.920 Dennis Hastert, longtime Republican House Speaker who went to prison, 3:40:51.220 --> 3:40:52.300 dies at age 84. 3:40:52.300 --> 3:40:53.199 Oh my God. 3:40:53.240 --> 3:40:54.140 Went to prison. 3:40:54.800 --> 3:40:57.380 Went to prison. Like he went on a visit to 3:40:57.420 --> 3:40:58.039 check it out. 3:40:59.560 --> 3:41:00.160 Why? 3:41:00.180 --> 3:41:02.050 Yeah. What could have happened there? 3:41:03.010 --> 3:41:06.690 Now, Fox's main article on him did note, although I 3:41:06.730 --> 3:41:08.230 think this may have been I'm not sure if this 3:41:08.290 --> 3:41:11.200 was like something they added after the fact, but it 3:41:11.270 --> 3:41:14.939 did call him like a child molester. However, and I'm 3:41:14.980 --> 3:41:17.800 going to quote here from an article in Yahoo News. 3:41:18.379 --> 3:41:21.190 Fox News gave former Republican House Speaker Dennis Hastert an 3:41:21.330 --> 3:41:24.849 in-memoriam send-off Monday, memorializing a man whom a federal judge 3:41:24.870 --> 3:41:27.510 called a serial child molester while relegating a sexual abuse 3:41:27.550 --> 3:41:30.869 of teenage boys to a brief reference to allegations that 3:41:30.910 --> 3:41:34.310 had tainted his reputation. As we go to break, former 3:41:34.350 --> 3:41:37.330 House Speaker Dennis Hastert has died, Bayer said, as archival 3:41:37.350 --> 3:41:40.160 footage played beneath a banner reading, in memoriam, former House 3:41:40.180 --> 3:41:43.910 Speaker Dennis Hastert dies at 84. Bayer then highlighted Hastert's 3:41:43.970 --> 3:41:46.950 political resume, noting that the Illinois Republican served as Speaker 3:41:46.980 --> 3:41:50.459 from 1999 to 2007, was the longest-serving Republican House Speaker 3:41:50.500 --> 3:41:54.400 in American history. Then came an extraordinarily sanitized depiction of 3:41:54.440 --> 3:41:56.860 why Hastert became one of the most disgraced political figures 3:41:56.900 --> 3:42:00.180 in modern American history. His reputation was later tainted by 3:42:00.260 --> 3:42:02.450 allegations he had molested athletes during his career as a 3:42:02.490 --> 3:42:04.930 teacher and wrestling coach, Bayer said. He spent more than 3:42:04.950 --> 3:42:07.300 a year in prison. Allegations? 3:42:08.120 --> 3:42:08.260 Yeah. 3:42:08.340 --> 3:42:09.320 Allegations. 3:42:09.680 --> 3:42:12.700 A judge called him a serial child molester. You don't 3:42:12.720 --> 3:42:15.780 have to say allegations anymore, Brett. You can just say 3:42:15.830 --> 3:42:18.420 he fucked kids. You're legally in the clear here. You're 3:42:18.440 --> 3:42:20.490 not going to get sued for just being a coward. 3:42:20.850 --> 3:42:24.010 Point to the judge. Like, who's going to sue you? 3:42:24.129 --> 3:42:25.590 Dennis Hastert's people? 3:42:26.410 --> 3:42:28.789 Yeah. Like, do they really want that discovery? 3:42:28.890 --> 3:42:30.410 Like... Yeah. 3:42:30.650 --> 3:42:31.450 Okay, man. 3:42:31.530 --> 3:42:35.050 Go for it. Anyway, that's all I got. 3:42:36.100 --> 3:42:38.720 Last Tuesday, in a short and unsigned order, the Supreme 3:42:38.760 --> 3:42:42.100 Court allowed the Trump administration to continue sending people to 3:42:42.160 --> 3:42:43.900 countries that are not their own. 3:42:44.280 --> 3:42:44.960 It's a process. 3:42:45.060 --> 3:42:49.460 It's often referred to as third country deportation. It's hard 3:42:49.500 --> 3:42:52.740 not to see this as just rendition, right? Like you're 3:42:53.060 --> 3:42:55.720 sending people to places where they have no ties, often 3:42:55.780 --> 3:43:00.100 to be tortured. The court will hear oral arguments about 3:43:00.120 --> 3:43:01.539 this in December, but for now. 3:43:01.580 --> 3:43:04.099 This practice can continue. This is manifesting. 3:43:04.709 --> 3:43:08.030 In New York, for example, in the removal of people 3:43:08.090 --> 3:43:11.710 who have a status called withholding of removal. According to 3:43:11.750 --> 3:43:15.359 reporting in the City Reporter and documented, people with this status, 3:43:15.459 --> 3:43:19.039 which there's a very high burden of proof for this, right? 3:43:19.080 --> 3:43:23.350 Like it's a higher burden of proof than just saying it. 3:43:23.490 --> 3:43:25.609 People have to prove that they will be in danger 3:43:25.750 --> 3:43:29.510 if they're returned. they're being called into federal buildings for a, quote, 3:43:29.709 --> 3:43:33.530 ICE check-in. They're sent these very brief letters or document 3:43:33.610 --> 3:43:38.390 update or some pretext for bringing them into buildings where 3:43:38.410 --> 3:43:43.740 they're then detained and sent to third countries. The Trump 3:43:43.820 --> 3:43:46.780 administration has been doing this more and more. It's trying 3:43:46.860 --> 3:43:50.720 to find loopholes in the law, which is very clearly 3:43:50.760 --> 3:43:54.560 designed to protect very vulnerable people and prevent a risk 3:43:54.600 --> 3:43:57.750 of what is called chain refoulement. Chain refoulement, if you're 3:43:57.770 --> 3:43:59.690 not familiar, is a process whereby someone is sent back 3:43:59.730 --> 3:44:02.360 to their country where they have proven they're not safe 3:44:03.420 --> 3:44:06.620 by route of a third country. So let's say I'm 3:44:06.660 --> 3:44:08.620 trying to send garrison to Canada, but I send them 3:44:08.660 --> 3:44:10.859 to France and then France sends them to Canada, right? 3:44:11.660 --> 3:44:15.880 People deported to third countries have faced torture, harassment, extortion, 3:44:15.940 --> 3:44:20.439 and worse. The Trump administration has managed to cajole nearly 3:44:20.480 --> 3:44:24.879 two dozen countries into accepting people this way. Previously, this 3:44:24.920 --> 3:44:28.780 practice was extremely rare. Obviously, rendition, which is not really 3:44:28.800 --> 3:44:31.440 an immigration procedure when it is carried out as rendition 3:44:31.600 --> 3:44:34.940 has happened before. There was also the practice of returning 3:44:35.040 --> 3:44:38.180 people to Mexico who had crossed the southern border. Biden 3:44:38.200 --> 3:44:40.849 did that. Trump won, did that, right? But those people 3:44:40.890 --> 3:44:43.769 weren't being removed when they had withholding of removal. They 3:44:43.790 --> 3:44:48.390 were being removed under Title 42, which is, again, legally distinct. 3:44:49.250 --> 3:44:51.730 In several cases, there has been an effort by the 3:44:51.750 --> 3:44:56.080 states involved to cast doubt about who is legally responsible 3:44:56.120 --> 3:44:59.700 for people removed this way. So in the United States case, 3:44:59.940 --> 3:45:02.500 it claimed that people moved to Secod. If you remember 3:45:02.540 --> 3:45:06.620 that scandal, I guess, travesty, the US claimed that they 3:45:06.640 --> 3:45:09.380 were the responsibility of the Salvadoran government. The US then 3:45:09.420 --> 3:45:11.439 went on to broker a deal with Venezuela in which 3:45:11.500 --> 3:45:15.160 it returned them to Venezuela. Panama has claimed that people 3:45:15.220 --> 3:45:18.040 who are non-Panamanian there were in the custody of the UN, 3:45:18.540 --> 3:45:20.520 but the UN said that they were in the responsibility 3:45:20.550 --> 3:45:25.070 of the Panamanian government. The government clearly uses this practice, 3:45:25.110 --> 3:45:26.510 I guess, as a punishment. We can see it in 3:45:26.530 --> 3:45:31.090 the case of Kilmer Abrego-Garcia, who was offered a chance 3:45:31.129 --> 3:45:33.390 to be deported to Costa Rica if he pled guilty 3:45:33.450 --> 3:45:36.670 and threatened with Uganda if he did not. And you 3:45:36.730 --> 3:45:40.680 hear this a lot from people, migrants who have signed 3:45:40.700 --> 3:45:43.860 a quote-unquote self-deportation paperwork, perhaps saying, oh, I didn't want 3:45:43.879 --> 3:45:46.020 to get sent. Generally, the way they wave this is 3:45:46.100 --> 3:45:49.460 we'll send you to Africa. Large portions of the United 3:45:49.480 --> 3:45:51.640 States population still believe that Africa is a country, not 3:45:51.660 --> 3:45:54.830 a continent. This is an ongoing issue, but for migrants 3:45:54.850 --> 3:45:58.750 who have never been anywhere in Africa, that is extremely scary, right? 3:45:58.800 --> 3:46:01.880 A continent where you know no one, where people's human 3:46:01.920 --> 3:46:02.800 rights are abused. 3:46:02.900 --> 3:46:07.920 Well, and honestly, as you noted, James, we're probably, for 3:46:08.040 --> 3:46:10.800 most people, your only knowledge of the continent is like 3:46:10.879 --> 3:46:15.190 war and disease. Yes, through this dark continent trope, right? Yes, 3:46:15.430 --> 3:46:19.709 people's understanding of Africa is extremely problematic, but it's understandable 3:46:19.730 --> 3:46:22.440 that people are very afraid. But that influences why this 3:46:22.520 --> 3:46:23.680 is such a scary thing. 3:46:24.040 --> 3:46:24.860 Yes, absolutely. 3:46:25.360 --> 3:46:27.580 So let's take the example of more than a dozen 3:46:27.620 --> 3:46:30.790 people who have been sent to Eswatini. They were held 3:46:30.830 --> 3:46:34.070 in a maximum security prison without meaningful access to counsel. 3:46:34.490 --> 3:46:37.510 For nine months, the government there prevented them from meeting 3:46:37.570 --> 3:46:40.950 a local attorney and and denied them unmonitored calls to 3:46:40.990 --> 3:46:44.310 attorneys in the United States. The government of Eswatini has 3:46:44.430 --> 3:46:49.160 repeatedly said that they want to participate in chain refoulement, 3:46:49.620 --> 3:46:52.300 saying the goal of the procedure was, quote, facilitating their 3:46:52.340 --> 3:46:57.300 eventual repatriation. This is happening all over the world, like 3:46:57.420 --> 3:47:00.310 right out in the open. It's a very clear attempt 3:47:00.430 --> 3:47:05.190 to evade the protections that these people have. Evidently, international 3:47:05.230 --> 3:47:07.369 law is not a real thing for powerful countries, and 3:47:07.890 --> 3:47:11.310 that's what we're seeing here. All of this comes as 3:47:11.330 --> 3:47:16.209 ISIS once again surging arrests. They were in San Diego. 3:47:16.250 --> 3:47:19.400 ISIS SRT were in San Diego today. There's been a 3:47:19.450 --> 3:47:23.820 sharp increase reported in Los Angeles. These call-ins are happening 3:47:23.860 --> 3:47:25.640 more and more in New York. I think we can 3:47:25.660 --> 3:47:29.199 probably expect to see them doing liberal cities before the midterms. 3:47:29.480 --> 3:47:32.119 They're all over Chicago right now, too. Yeah. 3:47:32.160 --> 3:47:32.320 Yeah. 3:47:33.050 --> 3:47:35.629 They're really going after it at this time. And I 3:47:35.690 --> 3:47:38.680 think that's because it's red meat to their base, right? 3:47:38.720 --> 3:47:40.460 They want to kind of own the libs, especially in 3:47:40.500 --> 3:47:43.700 New York, where Mamdani has had success, right? 3:47:43.740 --> 3:47:44.560 And they don't like that. 3:47:45.440 --> 3:47:47.220 It is also going to result in people who have 3:47:47.420 --> 3:47:49.760 every right to go to the polls and vote being 3:47:49.830 --> 3:47:50.689 afraid to do so. 3:47:50.709 --> 3:47:51.570 Yeah. 3:47:52.270 --> 3:47:54.410 And that is not a coincidence. 3:47:55.010 --> 3:47:59.830 This is all part of a coordinated strategy going into 3:48:00.290 --> 3:48:00.629 next month. 3:48:01.060 --> 3:48:03.600 Yeah, that's what we talked about a little bit last 3:48:03.660 --> 3:48:08.119 week with this new save verification system. And part of 3:48:08.160 --> 3:48:12.140 the system is so that people who are eligible to 3:48:12.180 --> 3:48:14.670 vote might be too scared to even register to vote 3:48:14.780 --> 3:48:16.620 if the system flags you as a non-citizen and then 3:48:16.870 --> 3:48:18.910 puts you into contact with ICE. And even if you 3:48:19.090 --> 3:48:22.330 are legally here, maybe you're living with someone who isn't. 3:48:22.910 --> 3:48:26.130 And it could just scare people out of exercising their 3:48:26.150 --> 3:48:26.590 right to vote. 3:48:26.850 --> 3:48:29.709 Yeah, maybe you just don't think it's worth all that stress, right? 3:48:29.770 --> 3:48:32.490 You You don't want those people around your neighborhood. All 3:48:32.530 --> 3:48:35.170 of those are very real concerns, especially if you feel 3:48:35.190 --> 3:48:38.440 like your vote doesn't matter or whatever. 3:48:39.959 --> 3:48:41.460 It's all part of voter suppression. 3:48:42.080 --> 3:48:47.660 It's a really advanced and insidious tactic of voter suppression. Obviously, 3:48:47.860 --> 3:48:50.360 the Trump administration wants as few people to vote in 3:48:50.440 --> 3:48:51.699 these midterms as possible. 3:48:52.800 --> 3:48:54.220 Certainly going forward. 3:48:56.140 --> 3:48:59.120 Speaking of voting, It could happen here as well as 3:48:59.140 --> 3:49:01.850 two other Cool Zone media shows, Behind the Bastards and 3:49:01.870 --> 3:49:05.730 Weird Little Guys, are nominated for a Signal Award, which 3:49:05.810 --> 3:49:09.060 is not related to the encrypted messaging app. As cool 3:49:09.100 --> 3:49:09.860 as that would be. 3:49:10.500 --> 3:49:11.760 As cool as that. 3:49:11.460 --> 3:49:14.040 Would be if they had a podcast award for some reason. 3:49:14.860 --> 3:49:16.780 As opposed to. 3:49:16.480 --> 3:49:19.680 An award for the people who have said the most 3:49:19.720 --> 3:49:22.160 things on Signal that they would not have wanted to say. 3:49:22.060 --> 3:49:22.900 On any other app. 3:49:22.920 --> 3:49:25.500 Which means I think we might also be in contention 3:49:25.550 --> 3:49:30.070 for a victory. Reward for most bonkers group chat would 3:49:30.150 --> 3:49:30.710 also be. 3:49:30.870 --> 3:49:34.210 Oh my god. If you would like to vote for 3:49:34.250 --> 3:49:37.010 us for the Signal Awards, voting is open until October 15th. 3:49:37.290 --> 3:49:40.000 This is good prep if you intend to vote for 3:49:40.020 --> 3:49:40.660 the midterms. 3:49:40.700 --> 3:49:41.840 I know voting is scary. 3:49:42.570 --> 3:49:44.310 Not everyone believes in it, but if you could at 3:49:44.370 --> 3:49:47.000 least vote in the Signal Awards, that would be appreciated. 3:49:47.140 --> 3:49:51.950 This is not electoralism, folks. This is not going to 3:49:51.990 --> 3:49:54.150 give us any power. It will give some of us 3:49:54.230 --> 3:49:55.070 small statues. 3:49:55.250 --> 3:49:55.590 I don't know. 3:49:55.610 --> 3:49:59.210 I think it is harm reduction to beat Prof G Market. Yeah, 3:49:59.250 --> 3:50:02.710 can I just say, one of these people repudents, fuck me. Yeah, yeah, 3:50:02.770 --> 3:50:05.810 we got to beat G Markets. Prof G Markets? The 3:50:05.870 --> 3:50:06.490 fuck is his name? 3:50:06.510 --> 3:50:07.110 Prof G Markets. 3:50:07.250 --> 3:50:07.470 My God. 3:50:07.570 --> 3:50:09.190 Yeah, yeah, Prof G. 3:50:09.320 --> 3:50:13.520 It's an economist who talks every fucking day about capital markets. 3:50:14.120 --> 3:50:17.300 I cannot imagine what that does to the human soul. 3:50:17.460 --> 3:50:17.919 Nightmare. 3:50:18.220 --> 3:50:20.240 I mean, I don't, I guess not why, but yeah. 3:50:21.270 --> 3:50:24.040 We are polling at 41%. We are a few points ahead, 3:50:24.160 --> 3:50:26.600 but it's still fluctuating. So if you would like to 3:50:26.640 --> 3:50:27.300 be a big part. 3:50:27.320 --> 3:50:30.140 Yeah, if you're in line, stay in line. Stay in line. 3:50:30.300 --> 3:50:32.160 If you want to be a big part of helping 3:50:32.220 --> 3:50:34.750 beat profigy markets, follow the link. 3:50:34.810 --> 3:50:37.290 And some other shit there. And some others. Housing Wire 3:50:37.330 --> 3:50:39.130 Daily polling at 1%. 3:50:39.130 --> 3:50:39.490 LOL. 3:50:39.870 --> 3:50:40.070 Yeah. 3:50:40.630 --> 3:50:40.870 Owned. 3:50:41.290 --> 3:50:45.470 Look, you can't stop Flavio Bolsonaro from winning in Brazil, 3:50:45.830 --> 3:50:48.679 but we can stop him from winning a Signal Award. 3:50:48.780 --> 3:50:51.760 And of course, by that I mean... Prof G would 3:50:51.920 --> 3:50:54.960 clearly hand his Signal Award over to the Bolsonaros. We 3:50:55.000 --> 3:50:57.260 all know that. A vote for Prof G is a 3:50:57.340 --> 3:50:59.980 vote for Jair Bolsonaro to win the Signal Awards. 3:51:00.460 --> 3:51:02.500 When I discovered this was happening, I did go on 3:51:02.520 --> 3:51:05.090 the Prof G Market's YouTube and they were discussing what 3:51:05.410 --> 3:51:08.050 the Bolsonaro would mean for the market. 3:51:08.070 --> 3:51:09.530 Well, there you go. There you go. 3:51:09.590 --> 3:51:11.950 Let's not look any further into that, James. Let's not 3:51:11.970 --> 3:51:13.070 look any further into that. 3:51:13.930 --> 3:51:16.540 I have a high threshold for stress, but I wasn't 3:51:16.600 --> 3:51:18.780 able to watch that. I've seen too much. 3:51:19.620 --> 3:51:20.840 But what will the markets think? 3:51:20.900 --> 3:51:23.560 What will the markets think? They'll think vote for CoolZone. 3:51:24.180 --> 3:51:24.460 Yeah. 3:51:24.740 --> 3:51:26.460 If you would like to help us beat Prop G, 3:51:26.980 --> 3:51:28.960 follow the link in the show notes. 3:51:29.060 --> 3:51:31.900 Does G stand for Jair? No, because that's spelled with 3:51:31.940 --> 3:51:32.340 a J. 3:51:32.360 --> 3:51:33.070 But it might. 3:51:33.280 --> 3:51:36.750 Theoretically, it might, you know. Vote for us just in case. 3:51:36.970 --> 3:51:37.250 Yeah. 3:51:37.610 --> 3:51:37.730 Yeah. 3:51:37.750 --> 3:51:40.710 If you want to email us, it's CoolZoneTips at Proton.me. 3:51:40.730 --> 3:51:43.350 Unless you're a marketing person, then go fuck yourself. 3:51:43.870 --> 3:51:45.550 We reported the news. 3:51:46.330 --> 3:51:47.130 We reported the news. 3:51:52.890 --> 3:51:56.010 Hey, we'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 3:51:56.090 --> 3:51:57.930 from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:51:58.790 --> 3:52:01.230 It Could Happen Here is a production of Cool Zone Media. 3:52:01.430 --> 3:52:04.430 For more podcasts from Cool Zone Media, visit our website, 3:52:04.630 --> 3:52:09.060 coolzonemedia.com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 3:52:09.420 --> 3:52:12.220 or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can now find 3:52:12.280 --> 3:52:15.200 sources for It Could Happen Here listed directly in episode descriptions. 3:52:15.700 --> 3:52:16.380 Thanks for listening.