WEBVTT - The Ninja, Part 4 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:07.160 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:14.600 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 0:00:14.720 --> 0:00:17.560 My name is Robert Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. 0:00:17.600 --> 0:00:20.320 And today we're back with part four of our series 0:00:20.360 --> 0:00:23.720 on the Ninja. Now, if you haven't heard the previous 0:00:23.760 --> 0:00:26.439 three episodes, you should probably go back and check those 0:00:26.440 --> 0:00:30.400 out first, but for a brief refresher. In the previous parts, 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.559 we talked about the origins of the term ninja and 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:40.040 its functional equivalent shinobi nomono, meaning a person who practices sneaking, secrecy, 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:45.040 invisibility or in an alternate reading patience, or endurance. We 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:49.199 talked about the alleged historical origins of the shinobi nomono 0:00:49.400 --> 0:00:54.880 as practitioners of espionage and undercover warfare in Singoku era Japan, 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.960 which covered parts of the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries and 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:02.240 was characterized by frequent up risings in civil wars. But 0:01:02.320 --> 0:01:06.399 we also discussed the complicated historical question of to what 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:11.399 extent the people who practiced spying, sabotage, and sneak attacks 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:14.959 during this period can actually be said to connect to 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:19.640 the modern literary archetype of the ninja. Which has evolved 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.560 over several centuries and is almost certainly composed in large 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:28.200 part of legendary development and invented tradition. We talked, especially 0:01:28.200 --> 0:01:30.240 in the first part of this series, about how the 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:34.400 ninja entered international pop culture in the twentieth century and 0:01:34.560 --> 0:01:37.640 the characteristics of the pop culture ninja and how those 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:40.680 don't really match up with much of even the historical, 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:45.160 legendary version of the ninja. We talked about some individual 0:01:45.160 --> 0:01:49.400 shinobi warriors from legend and history, including stories of ninja 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:53.160 esque sorcerers who could ride on spectral toads, and in 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.720 the last episode, we talked about some of the fantastic 0:01:55.920 --> 0:02:01.080 tools and techniques described in popular ninjitsu annuals that were 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:05.040 compiled and published beginning in the seventeenth century, including everything 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.840 from the use of gunpowder and pharmacology to the so 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:12.320 called water spider device that would I don't allow you 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:16.160 to do something in water questions remain that's right. 0:02:16.200 --> 0:02:19.760 And so this is we're back here for the final installment, 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:24.120 Part four, and as is often the case with our series, 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.400 part four is kind of and the rest. So we're 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.560 gonna have examples of content that match up with everything 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.040 we just highlighted from the previous episodes, So like a 0:02:34.040 --> 0:02:36.040 little bit more of everything we've been talking about, I 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:39.440 think getting into some I know some things that were 0:02:39.560 --> 0:02:42.560 probably you know, pinging in your mind as you listen 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:44.040 to the first three, like when are they going to 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:45.680 talk about throwing stars? 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:50.359 That's right. One of the inanimate objects most closely associated 0:02:50.360 --> 0:02:53.720 with the ninja in modern movies and storytelling is the 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:58.120 shuriken at the throwing star aka the ninja star. 0:02:58.800 --> 0:03:01.560 This is, of course one of the big ninja weapons 0:03:02.040 --> 0:03:05.200 of pop culture, and one of the things is just 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:08.520 instantly attractive about the ninja that you can't help but 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.079 want to throw a shuri can at somebody or at 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:16.000 the wall. Even when when my family when we were 0:03:16.000 --> 0:03:18.000 in Japan, one of the hotels that we stayed at 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.760 in Tokyo had a ninja theme and when your families 0:03:22.760 --> 0:03:25.320 were checking in, they would give the kids like pretend 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:28.520 suri can to throw at a target on the wall. 0:03:28.919 --> 0:03:32.440 Yes, I was reading about how shurican ranges are like 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:36.440 a common stop on sort of like ninja tourist offerings. 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:42.520 Yeah, yeah, so literally it basically means a blade in 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.040 the hand, and yeah, these are typically depicted in Japanese 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:49.720 ninja media as something you sling out rapid fire, like 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:53.000 kind of like you're dealing cards, throwing cards or something, 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.400 while a lot of Western ninja tails tend to present 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.280 them as these kind of deadly one shots. I think 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:03.520 we've all seen movie in which a ninja throws a 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.320 shuri can and it gets somebody right in the forehead 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:07.720 and somehow kills them dead. 0:04:08.160 --> 0:04:10.160 Rob correct me if you have a different impression. But 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.720 I feel like a lot of ninja movies emphasize a 0:04:13.800 --> 0:04:16.440 theme with the shura can that's almost like in fact, 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:20.080 you mention another Western movie that that borrows from a 0:04:20.160 --> 0:04:23.159 Japanese origin, in The Magnificent Seven, there's that scene where 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:26.800 there's you know, James Coburn brings a knife to a 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.599 gunfight and he beats the gunfighter by throwing the knife 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:33.320 faster than the gunfighter can draw his gun. Of course 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.200 that movie is based on seven Samurai originally, but but 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:39.560 there is I think a similar thing going on with 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:41.479 the shura can in a lot of these movies. It's 0:04:41.520 --> 0:04:45.640 like the Blade the bladed Star beats technology every time. 0:04:46.160 --> 0:04:48.880 Yeah, and it helps to have those rapid fire cuts too, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:52.239 because of course the way you typically do a knife 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.640 throw or a sura can throw in cinema, is you 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:59.640 just like cut two or pan over to where the 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.919 fake sure kin, the fake blade is already stuck in 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:06.120 the person, so you know it's lightning fast. It's like bam, 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.320 there it is. It's like magically appeared in their forehead. 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:11.560 Now, I think we mentioned in a previous episode. If not, 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:13.839 I'll go ahead and mention now that one thing that 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:18.479 is quite surprising is that shuriken actually do not feature 0:05:19.000 --> 0:05:22.800 in any of the classic ninjusu manuals that we were 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.640 talking about from beginning in the seventeenth century in the 0:05:25.720 --> 0:05:28.880 last episode. Though that doesn't mean they did not exist 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:32.880 at all. There are some historical artifacts that can sort 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:36.679 of fit in this box. It's just that historically, until 0:05:36.920 --> 0:05:39.279 I'll get to this in a minute, until basically the 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:43.680 twentieth century, they were not particularly associated with ninja or shinobi. 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.640 Yeah, and it's interesting to sort of tease to the 0:05:46.720 --> 0:05:51.040 history of like just the weapon itself. I was reading 0:05:51.240 --> 0:05:54.599 about this in Heroko Yoda and matt Alt's Ninja Attack, 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.080 which again is an excellent little illustrated book that covers 0:05:58.080 --> 0:06:03.240 all these highlights. But they point out that not all 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.560 of these various designs of the shurican that we do 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.120 have would have been thrown. Some of them were simply 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:15.520 small handheld blades. And that's interesting too, because in ninja media, 0:06:15.600 --> 0:06:17.840 I can't think of an example of anyone doing anything 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:21.240 with a shurcan other than throw it. You know, I 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.719 don't think I've ever seen anybody like whittle with one, 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.320 or open a soda pop with one, or anything. You know. 0:06:27.720 --> 0:06:30.600 They're just for throwing. And apparently, of the ones that 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:35.600 were thrown, the more likely scenario here is that they 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.960 would have been a close range nuisance or distraction weapon 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:41.960 as opposed to that stealthy one shot kill. 0:06:42.480 --> 0:06:45.840 Yeah, that very much squares with my understanding. So I 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:50.760 was reading about the origins of the association between shurikean 0:06:51.000 --> 0:06:54.719 and ninja in a book that I've been referencing throughout 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:57.799 this series. It's a book called Ninja Unmasking the Myth 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:00.960 by a historian named Stephen Turnbull, which goes a lot 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:06.160 into the complicated questions the historicity of the ninja tropes 0:07:06.200 --> 0:07:10.760 that exist today, and so in order to understand the 0:07:11.440 --> 0:07:18.080 association that emerged between shurrikan and ninja. It's apparently important 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.160 to understand a particular Japanese martial artist and author who 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:25.720 lived in the twentieth century named Fuji Ta Seiko, who 0:07:25.840 --> 0:07:30.120 was a practitioner and claimed to be a preserver of 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:35.720 the ninjitsu tradition of the Coca region of Japan. Fuji 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:39.480 To Seiko lived from eighteen ninety eight to nineteen sixty six, 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:44.320 and Fujiita's writings were influential in creating the image of 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.800 the ninja that emerged in the mid twentieth century after 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:50.480 the conclusion of World War Two. I'm not going to 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:53.560 completely cover his biography, but i will say that he 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:58.160 is a fascinating and somewhat controversial figure worth reading more about, 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.120 just to hit some of the top lines. In nineteen 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:06.000 thirty six, he published a book called Ninjutsu Hiroku, which 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:10.880 means something like secret Notes on Ninjutsu, which is allegedly 0:08:10.920 --> 0:08:14.160 based on the secret Koca traditions that have been passed 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:18.440 down to his family through direct instruction without being published 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.480 for a general audience, and he claimed that he was 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:25.840 publishing this information about ninjutsu to help Japan win its 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:31.040 war against China. However, actually a lot of the information 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.800 that he includes in this book does come from other 0:08:33.880 --> 0:08:36.800 pre existing ninjitsu manuals like the ones we talked about 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.160 in the last part of this series, like the Manson 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:43.200 Chukai or the bens In Chukai. So the Ninjitsu Hiroku 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:47.640 reframes a lot of information from these previous ninjasu manuals 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.320 of the Tokugawa period. But apparently it does things like 0:08:51.640 --> 0:08:56.800 rationalize a lot of magical sounding claims. For example, techniques 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.880 that originally were presented as ways of transforming magically into 0:09:00.920 --> 0:09:04.280 a rat are instead presented as making a noise like 0:09:04.360 --> 0:09:08.880 a rat to confuse and distract guards, Or like the 0:09:08.920 --> 0:09:13.640 idea that one could potentially turn invisible is rationalized as well. 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:16.080 You can walk in a certain way so that you 0:09:16.280 --> 0:09:20.600 cannot be seen, thus causing the impression that you've become invisible. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:21.480 Okay. 0:09:22.160 --> 0:09:25.679 A lot of this book also concerns self glorifying claims 0:09:25.840 --> 0:09:30.240 of practices of physical endurance and austerity. For example, he 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:33.000 claimed that, you know, as part of his practice, he 0:09:33.320 --> 0:09:36.360 could like break glass bottles over his own head to 0:09:36.400 --> 0:09:38.880 prove his toughness. He says he can do forty glass 0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:39.760 bottles in a row. 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.800 Do not attempt that no idea. 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.480 I'm going to mention a few other things. Don't do 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.680 any of this, please, This is not a good training regime, 0:09:48.960 --> 0:09:51.120 even if you want to be a ninja. He says, 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.280 the shanobi must be able to withstand torture without giving 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.440 up information. So he says, I have stabbed myself with 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:00.440 hundreds of needles. Here's a picture of me with all 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.440 the needles in me, And I have eaten roof tiles, 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:08.120 glass bricks, and rat poison. Again, questionable whether he actually 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:10.320 did some of that. I think people did claim that 0:10:10.360 --> 0:10:12.959 they saw him eating glass. I don't know about the poison, 0:10:13.160 --> 0:10:17.080 but don't do any of this. He also apparently claimed 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:21.520 that he knew dog language and thus could like communicate 0:10:21.559 --> 0:10:24.240 with dogs to like call them for help if needed, 0:10:24.360 --> 0:10:26.400 or make maybe make them fight each other. 0:10:26.640 --> 0:10:29.720 Well aside from them making them fight each other. Please 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:31.440 feel free to experiment with this one. 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.439 You can talk to dogs, yes, better than eating poison 0:10:35.480 --> 0:10:35.880 and glass. 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:36.960 Yeah. 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:42.920 But one of Fujiita Seiko's most enduring contributions to the 0:10:43.000 --> 0:10:47.440 ninja mythology of today is his attachment of the shuriken 0:10:48.000 --> 0:10:51.559 in its current form to the ninja legend. So I'm 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.000 going to try to get into that. Stephen Turnbull in 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:57.520 his book actually as a whole chapter just on where 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:01.360 the shurican comes from and how it can next to ninjitsu. 0:11:02.280 --> 0:11:06.719 So there are references to the word shuriken in seventeenth 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:12.360 century ninjitsu manuals, but they are apparently referring to completely 0:11:12.400 --> 0:11:15.400 different objects than we have in mind. We picture the 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.640 ninja star that's got you know, it's a star shaped, 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:22.520 vaguely circular object made of metal that has points all 0:11:22.640 --> 0:11:25.160 around so you can throw it in the spinning fashion 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:27.960 and wherever it hits somebody, it's going to stab into them. 0:11:28.440 --> 0:11:30.880 That's right, And again we've seen this in movies time 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:33.439 and time again. I actually looked back at the James 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:35.720 Bond film that we talked about being pivotal in the 0:11:35.760 --> 0:11:39.800 history of introducing the idea of the ninja to international audience. 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:45.040 You only live twice, and look, I didn't watch the 0:11:45.040 --> 0:11:47.240 film in full, but I did find some YouTube clips 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:50.520 of it official on the James Bond YouTube page. Okay, 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:52.959 and there is a scene laid in the film where 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.480 someone I think it's Bond himself, throws a shuriken at 0:11:56.559 --> 0:12:00.240 Blofeld and Blowfelt has a pistol, hits it in the hand, 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:01.520 knocks a pistol out of his hand. 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.000 This is actually a common thing in the movies where 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:06.560 the ninja will use it to disarm an opponent who 0:12:06.840 --> 0:12:07.959 like has them at a loss. 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:12.880 Yeah, and I guess again, issues of accuracy and power aside. 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.400 You know, I guess that's more realistic than the instant kill. 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:18.440 Yeah, I'm going to get to the likely use of 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.400 it in a second, to the extent it's even being 0:12:20.440 --> 0:12:23.880 recommended to a ninja. But so, okay, what is this 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:27.800 If the shuracan referenced in the seventeenth century in ninjutsu 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:31.280 manuals is not what we have in mind, what is it? Well, 0:12:31.320 --> 0:12:34.600 one of the earliest references, according to Turnbull, is in 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:38.960 a is in a text called the Gunpo Goshu of 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:43.079 sixteen fifty three, and in this case, the shuriken is 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.400 said to be quote a torch made from split wood 0:12:46.600 --> 0:12:50.400 and fitted into a metal base with a spike. So 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:54.880 that's interesting a torch. But the idea here is you're 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:58.720 century up on a castle wall and you know it's nighttime, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.400 You're sure surrounded by darkness, and you need to see 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:05.360 what's happening down on the ground below at the base 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:09.600 of the castle wall. So you throw down this shuriken. 0:13:09.760 --> 0:13:13.760 This object is a sort of combination torch lawn dart, 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.040 and the metal spike sticks into the soil and the 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:20.120 torch illuminates the ground around the base of the wall. 0:13:20.760 --> 0:13:22.800 All right, seems reasonable, seems practical. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:27.640 Yeah, that's a totally logical sounding tool. And it's interesting 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.880 because again this sort of crosses that boundary that keeps 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.040 getting blurred in the history of ninja lore between weapons 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.480 intended for direct violence and things that are just tools 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:43.839 used to gather information. However, when it comes to direct references, 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:48.719 there is another early reference to shurikean that is also dissimilar, 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:52.679 dissimilar to what's the word there, dissimilar to or dissimilar from. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.400 It's not the same as a ninja star. This is 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.640 the bow shurickan mentioned in some seventeenth century texts, which 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:03.240 is a bar or rod shaped object that could be 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.640 thrown by hand. So essentially this is just a large 0:14:05.640 --> 0:14:06.600 steel dart. 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:09.199 Yeah, these these are really neat and of course when 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.640 you start looking up weapons of the sort ninja weapons 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:14.199 seeing you find there's a lot of drift, there's a 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.840 lot of like modernization and whether the weapon actually existed 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.960 historically or not, somebody has made it now and you can, 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.240 you know, again, buy it at the mall or something. 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:26.200 But these are pretty cool, and these are one of 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.800 the I feel like just to dip back into Dungeons 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.440 and Dragons for a second. Anytime darts are are are 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.800 mentioned or darts come up as a possible weapon in 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.480 Dungeons and Dragons, I feel like most people's mind, you know, 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:42.480 given the often sort of like westernized fantasy setting of 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:45.720 Dungeons and Dragons, you often think of like a dart 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:49.960 from a pool hall, right, yeah, dart board, just small, 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:54.160 you know, basically harmless weapon. And I would always want 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:57.160 to advise me, no, no, look up some some bow shuriken 0:14:57.800 --> 0:15:00.200 and imagine that for your character. Instead it's I'm not 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:01.640 going to do a lot of damage in the game, 0:15:02.000 --> 0:15:03.320 but it looks cooler. 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.119 Yes, But coming back to the idea of not necessarily 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:10.560 needing to do a lot of damage, that actually connects 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:15.200 to where we get the first references too, star shaped 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.080 shurickan in an actual ninjutsu text, and that's in the 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.000 twentieth century. So here we're coming back to Fujita Seiko 0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:26.600 in Ninjitsuhiroku. Again this is from the year nineteen thirty six. 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.480 He has a passage about shurikean in his text, and 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:34.440 so I'm gonna hear read from Turnbull's featured translation. So 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.080 the author here writes, if you have to defend yourself 0:15:38.120 --> 0:15:41.440 against a sudden attack by an enemy, put some distance 0:15:41.480 --> 0:15:44.800 between you to ensure your safety. In this case, use 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.920 the small weapon called a tobi dogu, which means throwing weapon, 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:54.000 known to the author as shurikean. Samurai normally despised these 0:15:54.080 --> 0:15:57.280 and other throwing weapons, but they are most effective if 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:00.720 used skillfully. The shuri caan can do great damage if 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.880 it hits someone's eye. So even in this take from 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:09.320 the nineteen thirties, the shur can is not a primary weapon, 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:12.120 but the idea seems to me to be more like 0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:15.480 throwing sand in somebody's eyes. It's like a trick you 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:18.600 can use to buy time or advantage if you're caught 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:20.320 off guard or being chased. 0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:24.040 Yeah, and in this scenario, especially keeping the samurai from 0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:28.480 closing the distance between themselves and you, because that's life 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:30.080 and death at that point. If you can, if you 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.640 can just keep the distance between yourself and the samurai, 0:16:33.720 --> 0:16:35.880 then maybe you've got a chance to get away. 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.240 Right, It's the idea is throwing something to keep the 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:39.840 samurai out of sword range. 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.400 Yeah, this reminds me a little bit. We did, you know, 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.680 a past episode of Stuff to Blow your Mind. We 0:16:44.680 --> 0:16:48.920 did a series talking about like throwing animals, throwing things, 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:53.280 and then we got for one episode into an overview 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.960 of like human history with thrown weapon objects. And you know, 0:16:57.000 --> 0:16:59.520 they range from from well I would say they range 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.440 from rock to more complex weapons. But I remember even 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:06.720 in talking about throwing rocks and stones as weapons, you know, 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:08.440 there's a lot more to it. You know, there's a 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.200 lot of selection involved in picking up the exact correct object. 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:13.760 And this is a case where we get to that 0:17:13.840 --> 0:17:17.800 next level of Okay, what have we crafted the items 0:17:17.840 --> 0:17:19.959 that we wish to throw so that they could be 0:17:20.280 --> 0:17:21.200 used more optimally? 0:17:21.600 --> 0:17:25.960 Describing what devices to throw for this purpose, Fujiita advises, 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.440 for one thing, improvised hand thrown weapons such as knives 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.600 or hairpins. So it's like, if you know, throw whatever 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:35.000 you can get your hands on, but if you're going 0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:38.280 to have a dedicated weapon to throw. He also illustrates 0:17:38.440 --> 0:17:42.000 dedicated shurrican designs, and one of the illustrations is a 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.679 classic bow shuriken, a large steel dart. But he also 0:17:45.800 --> 0:17:49.240 includes pointed metal stars, and so here we get our 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:55.520 first illustration of throwing stars in a ninjutsu text. So 0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.520 one of the things he illustrates is cross shaped it 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.840 has four points, and another one is shown with eight points. 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:05.280 This is in nineteen thirty six, the first ninja text 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.440 showing the star shaped shuriken. However, it's clear that Fujita 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:13.800 Seko did not invent this device from his imagination, because 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:17.880 even though earlier ninjitsu texts don't include them, we do 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:22.400 have evidence from earlier periods of vaguely star shaped blades 0:18:22.480 --> 0:18:26.440 or cross shaped blades that did exist and could possibly 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.360 be thrown. So instead of looking for them in the 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.159 nunjitsu manuals, you can find them in the jiu jitsu 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:37.240 arsenals of the Tokugawa period, particularly associated with a martial 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:41.520 arts tradition called the Sego Reu. One of the documents 0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.000 allegedly associated with this school of martial arts includes an 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:48.239 illustration of a weapon that is quite similar that is 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:52.040 described like two knife blades fastened in the middle with 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:55.640 a hinge. So the way I'm picturing this finder stand 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.359 it right, is it's like a pair of scissors, but 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:02.080 instead of you know, one side of each blade being handles, 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:07.200 it's just blades on every point. Now, for several reasons, 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.440 Turnbull thinks that Fuji ta Seko was probably not familiar 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:16.480 with this exact document that I just mentioned, and probably 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:21.119 was getting his knowledge of the star shaped throwing weapon 0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:25.840 just from seeing these artifacts around. And there is other 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.960 evidence from history of people like having versions of these artifacts, 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:33.760 even going back to the Tokugawa period, but they just 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:37.359 traditionally it doesn't seem like they were super common, and 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:40.879 they weren't particularly they weren't associated as far as anybody knows, 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:45.120 with nunjitsu until the twentieth century, and now that's all 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:46.119 they're associated with. 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:49.680 Yeah, I think we probably have to sort of try 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:54.040 and imagine that most likely more historically accurate vision of 0:19:54.080 --> 0:20:02.040 shnobi operatives as being plaine clothes SBNA operatives, who, you know, 0:20:02.119 --> 0:20:04.440 if you're going to carry items on you, like, are 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.960 you going to really commit to having these some sort 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:09.879 of a throwing star, sure, a can on your person? 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:13.359 Something that again is I think going to be at 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:15.199 least in the modern understanding of it is going to 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:19.399 be more obviously a weapon and therefore subject to you know, 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:23.520 I mean, being judged in your illegal weapon or also 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.800 just being suspect in nature that you have it as 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:30.280 a And again, think about when you would supposedly use it, 0:20:30.359 --> 0:20:33.120 like when the samurai are coming after you, or when 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:37.080 guards are coming after you, like really in the worst 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.399 case scenarios, and that might be a better place to 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.120 maybe depend on just throwing say, you know, found objects 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.000 like a bottle or some other item in your immediate vicinity, 0:20:47.160 --> 0:20:50.479 as opposed to having some special specialty device on your 0:20:50.520 --> 0:20:51.280 person instead. 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:56.160 There's one detail from Turnbull's chapter that is so interesting 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:59.240 I had to bring it up. It's about the design 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:03.760 that many people have probably seen of these basically swastika 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.119 shaped a throwing star that occurs in a lot of media. 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.080 This is a very familiar design for movies and stuff, 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.480 and apparently a lot of modern ninja books have featured 0:21:13.520 --> 0:21:18.080 this design as if it were a traditional Shurican design, 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:21.720 but it is not, and in fact, there is an 0:21:21.960 --> 0:21:26.040 anecdote from this chapter about how an actor who worked 0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:32.680 on a nineteen sixties TV series in Japan called on Mitsukinschi, 0:21:33.160 --> 0:21:37.000 which had a throwing star of this design, described that 0:21:37.480 --> 0:21:41.359 really this design was created for the show because the 0:21:41.520 --> 0:21:45.480 straight pointed throwing stars were deemed too dangerous on set, 0:21:46.119 --> 0:21:49.720 so this was essentially a safety innovation that was later 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:54.400 misinterpreted as a real design of throwing stars as weapons. 0:21:54.880 --> 0:21:58.400 Yeah, that's crazy, like basically a safety shit shur can. 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:04.280 That's great. Yeah, I have another example of hurrocun inspired 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:08.280 fictional weaponry, and this one I thought was interesting because 0:22:08.280 --> 0:22:10.600 it kind of stands, at least to my eyes, as 0:22:10.680 --> 0:22:14.720 kind of like the ultimate in sci fi and fantasy 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:20.399 transformation of the ninja myth. So in the Warhammer forty 0:22:20.400 --> 0:22:24.359 thousand universe, like a far future, you know, grim Dark scenario, 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:27.560 you have these. They have this species known as the 0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:29.720 l Dar, and they're kind of like a sci fi 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:32.720 take on the Elves. I mean, that's exactly what they are. 0:22:33.080 --> 0:22:38.080 And they use pistols and rifles that use shurrocans as ammunition. 0:22:39.040 --> 0:22:43.240 So these are said to be monomolecular cutting edge weapons 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.119 fired in bursts from these guns, and like they're so 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:51.080 sharp and they hit so with such velocity that they 0:22:51.160 --> 0:22:54.120 just shred whatever they hit be it a mechanical foe 0:22:54.280 --> 0:22:58.840 or an organic foe, and again pretty far removed from 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:02.360 anything even remotely realistic we're talking about here, But again 0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:03.959 I thought it was interesting. It's kind of like the 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:07.280 extreme transformation of the shuriken in sci fi and fantasy. 0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:11.159 I also, I didn't remember this at all, because I 0:23:11.640 --> 0:23:13.840 don't have a lot of memories regarding two thousand and 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:17.919 four as Alien versus Predator, but you might remember that 0:23:18.000 --> 0:23:21.679 in other Predator movies he has this disc that he 0:23:21.760 --> 0:23:25.000 throws that cuts people in half. And in this film 0:23:25.040 --> 0:23:26.720 they decided they were like, that looks too much like 0:23:26.720 --> 0:23:29.679 a frisbee. Let's give the Predator a shur aken, And 0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:31.760 so he has this thing that it was least at 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:34.760 least described as a shura can. I included an image 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:37.040 here for you, Joe. It's it's really way too large. 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:42.600 It reminds me more of the weaponing krall the. 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.040