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Speaker 1: Body dots, but Joseph's gotten more. Though I am around

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Speaker 1: true crime obviously quite a bit because of appearances on

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Speaker 1: television and this podcast. Even I will have people that

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Speaker 1: will approach me and ask me what is my favorite

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Speaker 1: true crime program on television? And my boiler plate answer

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Speaker 1: every single time is I do not watch true crime stories.

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Speaker 1: It's what they used to call it, a busman's holiday.

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Speaker 1: I like things that are a bit lighter. I like

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Speaker 1: things that I guess you could say might be I

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Speaker 1: don't know, comically edifying. I don't know if that's if

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Speaker 1: that's the right framework, but it's it's in that that

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Speaker 1: vein that my wife Kim and I we spend most

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Speaker 1: of our time watching things like rom coms or old

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Speaker 1: comedies that we can from television. Big Seinfeld fan, by

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Speaker 1: the way. But there's a person who we have enjoyed

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Speaker 1: over the years watching on the big screen and small screen,

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Speaker 1: but to a great degree on the big screen, and

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Speaker 1: that's Matthew Perry. I think probably my favorite movie of

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Speaker 1: all time that he is in and certainly probably in

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Speaker 1: my top five, is The Whole nine Yards. I love

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Speaker 1: that movie. It is absolutely hilarious with him and Bruce Willis. However,

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Speaker 1: many times when the mask of comedy falls away, there's

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Speaker 1: left behind the true face, a face of tragedy. And today, unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: we're going to be digging into the case of Matthew

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Speaker 1: Perry's death, and what's in the news right now subsequent

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Speaker 1: to his death are the arrest of five individuals who

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Speaker 1: likely had a hand in bringing about his end, and

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Speaker 1: of course, the end of a comic genius's life. I'm

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Speaker 1: Josephcott Morgan and this is Bodybacks. I think the thing

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Speaker 1: I love most about Matthew Perry Dave is that when

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Speaker 1: it comes to comedy, he made it look effortless. He's

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Speaker 1: one of those guys for me that can do physical comedy.

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Speaker 1: And if you ever want to see perfect example of

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Speaker 1: physical comedy, it's juxtaposition of Bruce Willis in uh in

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Speaker 1: uh the whole nine yards.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 1: Matthew Perry just had a way of movement, a way

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Speaker 1: of reacting to things that it doesn't matter how many

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Speaker 1: times I watched that movie, I will split a gut

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Speaker 1: every single time. It's so funny. And Uh, Kim, my

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Speaker 1: wife is actually uh uh a fan of of the

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Speaker 1: movie Fools Rush in with Selma hyak. And we've watched

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Speaker 1: it a number of times and again physical comedy, uh uh,

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Speaker 1: all the way through falling on a cactus plant and

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Speaker 1: coming up with all of the the cactus needles stuck

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Speaker 1: in his backside and along his back and it sounds painful,

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Speaker 1: but it was in fact funny and it's uh, it's

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Speaker 1: really tragic, you know, to see see this long road

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Speaker 1: that this man has been on and uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: to essentially uh to that fateful day when he was

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Speaker 1: found by this is floating face down initially in his

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Speaker 1: pool or in the hot tub in his adjacent to

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Speaker 1: his pool at his home in Pacific Palisades. And there's

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Speaker 1: been cases like this obviously for years and years, and

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Speaker 1: you just don't see it coming out. I think many

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Speaker 1: people that deal with addiction they believe that they are

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Speaker 1: in fact bulletproof. But that certainly wasn't the case with

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Speaker 1: miss Perry, now, was it. You know?

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Speaker 2: I got sober August seventh, nineteen ninety. It's a long

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Speaker 2: time ago, but I remember watching Friends in the nineties

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Speaker 2: and if you go back and watch the episodes, watch

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Speaker 2: Matthew Perry's physicalness, not the comedy, look at him. You

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Speaker 2: can see when he's using him when he's not. You

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Speaker 2: can actually tell by his appearance whether he's using pills

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Speaker 2: or something else. You can tell when it's alcohol. Matthew Perry,

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Speaker 2: by his own admission, was an alcoholic and addict and

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Speaker 2: had tried to become sober many times, and you can

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Speaker 2: physically see his demise on they show up and down,

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Speaker 2: weight loss, weight gain. Sometimes you think about it. When

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Speaker 2: you've got millions of dollars, you know you can cover

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Speaker 2: up a multitude of sends with money, and he couldn't cover

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Speaker 2: it up. They all knew, and they loved him. He

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Speaker 2: was like, this is a guy everybody liked, even though

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Speaker 2: they had a lot of issues. They loved him. He

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Speaker 2: was a good guy, not a bad.

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Speaker 1: Sweet because they described him as a sweet man. And

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Speaker 1: I don't doubt.

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Speaker 2: That addictions an equal opportunity destroyer. There are only a

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Speaker 2: couple of things that happened at the end of it.

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Speaker 2: You either get sober and get your life back, sometimes

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Speaker 2: for the first time, or you end up in jail

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Speaker 2: or you die. I have oftentimes wondered, Joe, I don't

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Speaker 2: know that much about ketamine other than hearing people talk

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Speaker 2: about it. I thought ketamine was an animal tranquilizer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it really, you know, it came into it

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Speaker 1: came into I don't want to say into fashion necessarily,

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Speaker 1: but it was viewed as an alternative to PCP I

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Speaker 1: F fen cycladine back in the sixties, and it has

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Speaker 1: been used in treatment relative to animals. And it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a non opioid tranquilizer, and it has hallucinogenic effects.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So what's the difference between that and say, because

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Speaker 2: a non opioid, Because most of the times when we

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Speaker 2: think about people overdosing, it's on an opioid of some type.

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Speaker 2: You know, we hear of OxyContin and things like that.

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Speaker 2: Where does this fit into the stream of drugs? You say,

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Speaker 2: it's non opioid, but it has hallucinogenic properties.

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Speaker 1: It does, and it has sedative properties as well, and

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Speaker 1: it's used it creates this kind of sense of euphoria.

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Speaker 1: You can have a relaxed sensation. And it's been used

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Speaker 1: also as a as a club drug. You know, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if you're in the yeah, yeah, special case

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Speaker 1: what it's referred to as. And you know, you think

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Speaker 1: about some of the other drugs that were out there

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Speaker 1: that particularly became fashionable toward the end of the eighties,

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Speaker 1: these synthetic drugs like like ecstasy that were used, and

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Speaker 1: it knocks down inhibitions when it's dosed correctly, uh you.

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Speaker 1: And keep in mind that for ketamine, it's actually used

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Speaker 1: as an anesthetic, so that it's a precursor to can

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Speaker 1: be applied prior to surgery. So it's gonna it's gonna

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Speaker 1: put that person in that kind of dream like state.

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Speaker 1: And for you know, for our friends out there that

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Speaker 1: have had to go through surgery, you know, they'll they'll

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Speaker 1: push that one drug, h you know, prior to surgery,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to vary, you know, depended upon the physician.

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Speaker 1: But it's that kind of uh, that kind of floating,

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Speaker 1: floating feeling that you have. It doesn't necessarily put you

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Speaker 1: into that deep dark blackness that you have when they

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Speaker 1: actually hit you with anesthesia. It gets you into a

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Speaker 1: very relaxed state. And look, hey, I got I gotta,

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Speaker 1: I gotta admit something to you, Dave. I think probably

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Speaker 1: for most of us in the world that we live in,

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Speaker 1: that's a desirable state perhaps to be in. Wouldn't it

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Speaker 1: be great if you could get that on tap and

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Speaker 1: not have to pay the price that you do with

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Speaker 1: a substance like that. But unfortunately, it's it that's hard

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Speaker 1: to attain. I think that many people that unfortunately fall

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Speaker 1: into this trap of addiction see it as an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to uh, to not have to do that work. You know,

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Speaker 1: a good friend mine, Dave Mack, actually said that, you know,

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Speaker 1: you can make a choice to be sober, and it sober,

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Speaker 1: sobriety exists for you. But boy, it's hard, you know,

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Speaker 1: really heartbreaking. Things that about Matthew Perry, I think is

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Speaker 1: that by his own count, he said he I think

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Speaker 1: he had detoxed sixty times, Dave over the course of

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Speaker 1: the you know, and what that drags your body through

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Speaker 1: that you know where you're desiring the strug and it's

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Speaker 1: this kind of deep, deep desire that you have your

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Speaker 1: body screaming for it, and you have to deny yourself

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Speaker 1: that I cannot be in a place in my mind

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Speaker 1: where I could imagine that that bees kind of raising

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Speaker 1: its head. And when the thing about if you have

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Speaker 1: an addiction issue and you're going down this road, you

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Speaker 1: want to escape the pain of what you're faced with

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Speaker 1: relative to detox every single time, can you imagine that

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Speaker 1: moment that you make a choice where you're saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to turn my life around. I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to pick it up again, and you take that step

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Speaker 1: and where you're going to be detoxed, and it's like

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Speaker 1: taking a punch right in the nose, only worse.

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Speaker 2: With Matthew Perry using ketamine as and apparently his diagnosis

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Speaker 2: was using this as a depression therapy, I read that

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Speaker 2: it was used in therapy for those who are that

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Speaker 2: other chemicals are not working. They're yeah, they're resistance to it.

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Speaker 2: And that's uh.

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Speaker 1: And I think that what does that mean, Well, that

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Speaker 1: any other kind of medication that might be prescribed, you know,

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Speaker 1: to a patient to overcome these uh depressive moments. And

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Speaker 1: I've been through them myself, for those of you that

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Speaker 1: know my story, diagnosed with PTSD, and there are some

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Speaker 1: very dark dark corners of my mind where, in all

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Speaker 1: honesty with you, that took me to very dark areas

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Speaker 1: where I had to go through incredible bouts of depression

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Speaker 1: and try to overcome those. And part of overcoming that

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Speaker 1: through my own therapy was medications that helped me along

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Speaker 1: the way. The problem is is that for some of us.

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Speaker 1: I think many of us to a certain degree have

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Speaker 1: maybe a predisposition to depression. And there's a thread that

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Speaker 1: runs through life. But you know, Dave, in a more

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Speaker 1: sinister sense, there's also another thread that those individuals and

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Speaker 1: God bless them, that are wrought with addictive personalities, the

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Speaker 1: specter of depression, their need to feel better. They're those

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Speaker 1: that are out there that, just like a watering hole

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Speaker 1: in Africa, are waiting for the weakest among the herd

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Speaker 1: to strike, and in this particular case, they did strike,

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Speaker 1: and it's in my opinion, they brought about the death

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Speaker 1: of Matthew Perry. Ketamine can be applied in a couple

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Speaker 1: of couple of methods. It in fact can be injected

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Speaker 1: and for those that are going through ketamine infusion treatment,

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Speaker 1: it goes into a port uh an intravenious port where

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Speaker 1: it can be injected and administered by medical professionals. It

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Speaker 1: can be injected i AM, which is intramuscular, and that

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Speaker 1: does in fact occur. You can actually snort it and

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Speaker 1: it can be consumed orally as well. In Matthew Perry's case,

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Speaker 1: we have to understand that on October twenty eighth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, which is when mister Perry was found deceeized.

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Speaker 1: He had, according to reports, had received multiple shots of

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Speaker 1: ketamine per his personal assistant who eventually found him deceased,

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Speaker 1: who came back home and found him deceased floating face

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Speaker 1: down and was able to put him in a seated position. Now,

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Speaker 1: this individual related that it's actually Kenneth Iawa Masa, who

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Speaker 1: was his personal assistant, admitted that he had shot Matthew

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Speaker 1: Perry up multiple times, maybe as many as six times.

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Speaker 1: Matthew Perry had requested, according to this gentleman, that he

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Speaker 1: shoot him up with a big one, quote unquote. According

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Speaker 1: to Aaamasa, it's not surprising that once you get to

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Speaker 1: that point where you have this drug working on your system,

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Speaker 1: it's going to begin to drag you down. And of

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Speaker 1: course drugs and a body of water do not mix

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Speaker 1: at all. You put someone in a hot tub, for instance,

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Speaker 1: after they've been injected with a drug like ketamine that

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Speaker 1: has this kind of surreal, you know, in impact on yourself,

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Speaker 1: where you know all of your you're in a totally

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Speaker 1: relaxed state. You can imagine someone just kind of sleepily,

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Speaker 1: kind of passing away in this environment, and then you

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Speaker 1: double that up where the warmth safer instance of a

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Speaker 1: hot tub and the individuals found floating in there. It's

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Speaker 1: it's certainly a lethal combination day.

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Speaker 2: For those who don't know the difference between intermuscular and

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Speaker 2: intervening is what does that mean in terms of injecting

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Speaker 2: and using drugs for the user?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, if you can imagine if you can go

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Speaker 1: an IV drug, for instance, when this is injected directly

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Speaker 1: into your body, it's going to hit your system like

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Speaker 1: a locomotive because it's instantaneous. Any anywhere where you can

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Speaker 1: get the uptake of the drug immediately, first off, you're

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Speaker 1: going to get the full effect of it. It's not

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Speaker 1: going to diminish at all. Where if say, for instance,

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Speaker 1: you're going i M, you're dealing with kind of an

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Speaker 1: absorbency factor there. If you go IV, it's driving it

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Speaker 1: right into your system. You know. I've actually worked cases

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Speaker 1: where people have place cocaine, for instance, They've inserted it

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Speaker 1: directly and it is absorbed directly into the system at

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Speaker 1: a very very high rate. And we'll put these individuals

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Speaker 1: on the ceiling, if you will.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 1: It's drug ods in and of themselves. And I've had

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Speaker 1: a lot of experience working cases where I would go

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Speaker 1: to what they used to refer to as shooting galleries.

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Speaker 1: It's a common gathering spot out on the street. That is,

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Speaker 1: we're not talking about people that are very wealthy where

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Speaker 1: you're having drugs directly delivered to your home. Okay, I'm

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Speaker 1: not saying that those two people that street level drug

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Speaker 1: abusers and say the celebrity set that they're not going

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Speaker 1: to cross pass, because there's any any number of times

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Speaker 1: when this has occurred over the years where they do

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Speaker 1: in fact cross pass the people that supply the drugs

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Speaker 1: deal with both sides, you know, whoever that they can

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Speaker 1: entice into this because they have a particular weakness for

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Speaker 1: the drugs. It is about money and that is the

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Speaker 1: sole driver behind it. And you know, you go to

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Speaker 1: a lot of these really deplorable locations that I've been

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Speaker 1: on many many times where you will walk into a home,

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Speaker 1: for instance, or a house it's not really a home.

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Speaker 1: Home implies something else, doesn't entirely. You go into a

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Speaker 1: house that's used as a shooting gallery and you will

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Speaker 1: find discarded needles all over the place. You'll actually find

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Speaker 1: tourniquets all over the place. Or something that has been

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Speaker 1: used as a tourniquet. Many times they'll use a belt,

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Speaker 1: those sorts of things, and they'll be discarded all over

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Speaker 1: the place, and it's filth, it's it's filthy, it's dirty,

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Speaker 1: and they're very, very dangerous. I actually had an event

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Speaker 1: where I had and I was very young investigator at

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Speaker 1: the time, and I was working a case of a

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Speaker 1: guy that had that had actually odd on heroin and

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Speaker 1: the police had not swept this old, old structure very well.

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Speaker 1: And there was another junkie inside of a closet in

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Speaker 1: the house and he he came to while we were

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Speaker 1: there and charged at us with a needle in his hand,

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Speaker 1: and the cops and I was bent over a body

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Speaker 1: while I was doing this, and the cops took him

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Speaker 1: down and arrested him at that moment. Tom So, that's

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Speaker 1: a very dangerous and that rarely happens. Most people that

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Speaker 1: are around the dead that are junkies and say like

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Speaker 1: a shooting gallery, I have them. I've had many times

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Speaker 1: where they will wrap bodies up and then discard them

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Speaker 1: in other places, and because they don't want to be

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Speaker 1: associated with the police, they want to continue to feed

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Speaker 1: their addiction. If you have a dead body at a

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Speaker 1: residence like that or where they're all, you know, hold

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Speaker 1: up in that particular place. That draws attention, and of

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Speaker 1: course you draw attention to them, somebody's going to jail.

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Speaker 1: But in Matthew Perry's case, that's not what happened. He

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Speaker 1: has someone a personal assistant, and he had had a

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Speaker 1: couple of personal assistants over the years that, to my

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Speaker 1: way of thinking, would go out and acquire these drugs.

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Speaker 1: And that's why Masa has been charged in this particular case.

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Speaker 1: He's that bridge between I think two physicians and also

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Speaker 1: this ketaming queen the smacks of, of course, the smacks

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Speaker 1: of I'm thinking of Michael Jackson right now, where you know.

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Speaker 1: He famously said to his physician more milk, and he

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Speaker 1: referred to this combination, which in and of itself is

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Speaker 1: and it had anesthetic property to it. He would get

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Speaker 1: the milk and the physician would apply it to him.

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Speaker 1: Of course, the physician, this is a Schedule three drug.

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Speaker 1: To Conrad Murnane, I'm talking about, yeah, and it's you

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Speaker 1: have to be a physician, a licensed physician to acquire it.

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Speaker 1: If you cannot get it from a physician, then you

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Speaker 1: would rely on someone like the Ketymine Queen where you

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Speaker 1: can actually acquire it from Mexico and it can be

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Speaker 1: brought in as an injectable in the liquid form.

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Speaker 2: When that's the case, show are there varying levels of

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Speaker 2: ketamine like for example, when you buy drugs, when you

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Speaker 2: when your doctor prescribes the drug, it usually has ten milligrams,

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Speaker 2: five milligrams, what have you? Is the same thing with ketemine.

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Speaker 2: Are there different strengths to ketamine or is it just

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Speaker 2: here's ketamine.

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Speaker 1: Well it's yeah, it's more it's more of the applied

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Speaker 1: dosage and the same thing applause here with You can

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Speaker 1: look at dosages from this perspective either. Remember remember according

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Speaker 1: to this personal assistant, mister Perry said, give me a

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Speaker 1: big shot. Okay. Well what can we draw from that? Well,

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Speaker 1: we would say that, okay, give me a big shot.

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Speaker 1: That means that you're going to up the dosage. So

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Speaker 1: do we say that the regular dosage, whatever milligrams it

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Speaker 1: was that was being applied and that will come out eventually,

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Speaker 1: was it insufficient to the task to that level that

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Speaker 1: mister Perry wanted to achieve, or you can look at

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Speaker 1: it from the perspective, you're going to take multiple dosages

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Speaker 1: over the period of a day, and this individual had

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Speaker 1: given mister Perry multiple injections over that period of time.

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Speaker 1: This is another thing this personal assistant is not. He's

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Speaker 1: not even the equivalent of a nursing student, okay, but

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Speaker 1: yet he is applying this high powered drug to this

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Speaker 1: man at his request. According to the personal assistant, he's

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Speaker 1: mister Perry is saying, inject me with it. That leaves

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Speaker 1: us at another point, why does mister Perry need someone

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Speaker 1: to inject him? Why is he not injecting himself. Did

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Speaker 1: he have a fear of needles? Perhaps maybe he was

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Speaker 1: unsure of how to utilize a needle, or you know,

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Speaker 1: was it something else? Because this guy was really involved

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Speaker 1: in acquisition, I think of the drugs and this goes

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Speaker 1: to a bigger point. They and you and I have

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Speaker 1: talked about this on multiple occasions on bodybacks, Dave, where

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Speaker 1: we have an individual who is going to have access

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Speaker 1: to the drugs and they are that pressure point that

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Speaker 1: when the police begin to work these cases, Dave, that

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Speaker 1: can apply that pressure and guess what, somebody is always

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Speaker 1: going to roll over on another person or another group

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Speaker 1: of people Matthew Perry, according to all reports, had a long,

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Speaker 1: tragic history of substance abuse, and Dave, one of the

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Speaker 1: things that's really heartbreaking about his journey because it is

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Speaker 1: a journey. It's a horrific journey that I don't wish

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Speaker 1: on anyone. His family is friends, you know, everybody in

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Speaker 1: his circle. You had mentioned his colleagues on the television

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Speaker 1: show Friends. You can imagine watching this who they frame

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Speaker 1: as a sweet man developed the dwindles essentially, you know

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Speaker 1: where they would he would, you know, kind of trajectory

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00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: would take him downhill. He'd gained weight and he would

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00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: lose weight, and you can tell their affect kind of

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Speaker 1: changes over a period of time. But you know, he

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Speaker 1: had had a problem in the past with opioid addiction,

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Speaker 1: which is different than dependency upon ketamine. And for me

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Speaker 1: as an investigator, when I'm working a case and I

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Speaker 1: have someone that migrates from one type of drug to

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Speaker 1: another that has different properties and how it's going to

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Speaker 1: impact you physiologically, that's that's that. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: it necessarily matters what the drug is, Dave. It has

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Speaker 1: to do with that craving, that burning desire and looking

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Speaker 1: back at this opioid addiction. Matthew Perry had paid a

350
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Speaker 1: price for this. He had actually had intestinal problems as

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Speaker 1: a result of the opioid addiction. And that's that is

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Speaker 1: not uncommon. You can. I have had cases where I've

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Speaker 1: had people that have been addicted to opioids and they

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Speaker 1: have had a necrotic bowel, they will develop things like

355
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Speaker 1: a fecal impaction where they cannot pass pass waste effectively.

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Speaker 1: And apparently this is what may have happened with mister

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Speaker 1: Perian past that probably part of his intestine have become infarcted.

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Speaker 1: And what that means when we say the term infarcted,

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00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: you can actually have a mile cardial infarction, which is

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Speaker 1: a heart attack. So what does that mean, Well, it

361
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: means that the blood supply in an organ becomes compromised

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Speaker 1: so that that part of the tissue that that that

363
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: that blood source or that that vascular source supplies to

364
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Speaker 1: keep it healthy, it dies. And so with a bowel infarction,

365
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Speaker 1: which may have been and it sounds as though it

366
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Speaker 1: was with the opioid problem, part of his bowel died, Dave,

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Speaker 1: and he had to have that resected and then have

368
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Speaker 1: cost me back place standing, you know, and I don't

369
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:09,160
Speaker 1: know that I realized that necessarily, But you're talking about

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Speaker 1: wearing just let the sink in just for a second,

371
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Speaker 1: wearing your addiction. That Can you imagine the horror of this,

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Speaker 1: that you've had to go through surgical treatment for this

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Speaker 1: problem that has arisen from an opioid addiction. I would

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Speaker 1: imagine there was a physician that was telling him, look,

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Speaker 1: you cannot continue on down this road. This is We've

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Speaker 1: already seen this happen with your intestines. We have saved you.

377
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Speaker 1: And they only gave him, like I think they told

378
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Speaker 1: to say, like a two or three percent of surviving

379
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Speaker 1: relative to this bowel problems that he had had.

380
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Speaker 2: But for Matthew Perry, and I'm being honest when I

381
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Speaker 2: tell you this, I don't think he thought of ketamine

382
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Speaker 2: as something that could kill him. I don't think he

383
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 2: thought of it as a as you would something used

384
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Speaker 2: for depression. I'm treating depression. It gives me euph You.

385
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,440
Speaker 2: One thing he did talk about in his book was

386
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,680
Speaker 2: that ketamine was not his is not for him. When

387
00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 2: he first used ketamine, didn't like it, But as addicts do,

388
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,080
Speaker 2: alcoholics call it the beer experiment, Joe, when they you

389
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Speaker 2: stop drinking liquor, okay, and you say, well, I'm going

390
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 2: to stop drinking, I'm gonna drink beer. I'm just gonna

391
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 2: drink beer like that. An alcoholic thinks that way, okay,

392
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:25,440
Speaker 2: and we all do that. You go through the beer experiment,

393
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 2: then you realize, well, the only thing I can really

394
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 2: drink is water in you know. And the same thing

395
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 2: with people who take pills. Realize there's the tail and

396
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: all experiment. People who are used to taking pills, they

397
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,679
Speaker 2: will eventually, as they narrow it down, let me take

398
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,359
Speaker 2: an aspirin and they'll take a bunch of them Thailand, al,

399
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:43,959
Speaker 2: what have you? And I think, based on what I

400
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:46,200
Speaker 2: was reading about Matthew Perry and what he had done

401
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 2: in his life, and look at what he had in

402
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 2: his system, ketamine became that safe drug they're treating his depression.

403
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,280
Speaker 2: It's not like cocaine, it's not like opiois, it's not

404
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 2: like oxyconton, it's not like all these other things that

405
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 2: nearly killed him. This one just makes me feel good

406
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: and it's okay. And a doctor gave me the script.

407
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 2: Here's how you know it's a deadly drug. Here's how

408
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 2: you know it's feeding an addiction. And by the way,

409
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,080
Speaker 2: here's how you know that doctor Placentia should be in

410
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:17,160
Speaker 2: prison for the rest of his life. Doctor Placentia bragged

411
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 2: to it. First of all, he told another patient that

412
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 2: Matthew Perry was spiraling out of control. He knew ketamine

413
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,280
Speaker 2: had spun this guy. But two, he was selling twelve

414
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,440
Speaker 2: dollars worth of ketamine for two thousand dollars to Matthew Perry,

415
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:36,200
Speaker 2: a twelve dollars vial of ketamine. They were charging Matthew

416
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: Perry two grand because they knew he had the money.

417
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: And this is what Placentia actually told to his partner Chavez.

418
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: This is a direct text. I wonder how much this

419
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 2: moron will pay. You have the drug dealer hiding in

420
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Speaker 2: a doctor smock, and you have the addict who is

421
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 2: rich and famous, who again probably thinks this isn't gonna

422
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 2: kill me. The oxygon would kill me, the booze would

423
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:02,760
Speaker 2: kill me. The purpose that all those are gonna get

424
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: this won't kill me. It's kett of me. It's treating

425
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: my depression. I feel like I'm on a happy cloud.

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Speaker 1: You know, I've had this discussion with other people in

427
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,640
Speaker 1: the medical legal field. And I think that I have

428
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 1: mentioned this before and should should we consider I think,

429
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: as corners and medical examiners, should we consider delving into

430
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: this world of ruling these deaths from ods as not

431
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: accidental events, but as homicides, because you know, you don't

432
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: necessarily there's people in the world of prosecution. Many times

433
00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 1: they'll go down this road of intent and listen, it

434
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: doesn't matter if I happen to be holding a weapon

435
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 1: in my hand and I'm pointing the weapon around and

436
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,960
Speaker 1: I'm acting careless with it, and I'll pull the trigger

437
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: and it strikes some money in the chest, We're probably

438
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: going to rule that as a homicide. And the cause

439
00:30:19,280 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: of death is going to be a gunshot one, obviously.

440
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 1: And Dave, I'm very interested in this particular case with

441
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,719
Speaker 1: the manner of death in Matthew Perry's case, should the

442
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: medical examiner or medical examiner corner, you know, in LA,

443
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 1: should his case be ruled an accidental death or should

444
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: it be ruled as a homicide? And you know, you

445
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: they deal with this issue of I know you've heard

446
00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 1: this before, callous indifference, and you think about these comments

447
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: that the physician is making here, and it's not like

448
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,440
Speaker 1: it's not like this physician is some child that doesn't

449
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: have a concept of what these pharmaceuticals can do to somebody, right,

450
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: I mean, by their own ad mission, they're making these

451
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: comments referring to this man as would you say, isn't

452
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: an idiot moron?

453
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 2: I wonder, I wonder this is what actually turned me

454
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,720
Speaker 2: on this. I was really trying to hold my emotions

455
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: in on this because I don't like it's easy for

456
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 2: addicts and addicts families to blame other people. It really is,

457
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 2: because if the attict doesn't get the drugs, you know,

458
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: he's not dead, if his assistant doesn't shoot him up.

459
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:36,880
Speaker 2: But when you look at this and you think you've

460
00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: got two doctors, the medical doctors that are providing something

461
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 2: that they know what it does, They know the effects

462
00:31:44,080 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 2: of ketamine. They know you have to have you have

463
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 2: to be able to write this prescription, Joe, I can't

464
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: write it. I can't grab a lab thing and write

465
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: prescriptions for this medicine. They could because they knew what

466
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 2: it did. But you've got doctor Placentia, doctor Chavez, And

467
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 2: I wonder how much this moron we'll pay selling him

468
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,880
Speaker 2: twelve dollars worth of ketamine for two grand. Now, he

469
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: also expressed a desire. This is what they're saying. Placentia

470
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 2: expressed a desire to become Perry's quote unquote go to

471
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,960
Speaker 2: for drugs. And he's the one that instructed Perry's assistant,

472
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 2: Kenneth Awassa to I Will Masa to how to inject him.

473
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 2: So he was trained on how to inject Matthew Perry

474
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:28,120
Speaker 2: with ketamine. And I like and think of the guy

475
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: knows his history and he's saying I want to be

476
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 2: his go to guy for drugs? Why aren't you? What

477
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: is the hippocratic ooth do no harm?

478
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's I think that that's that's the big thing

479
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 1: we're looking at here. And it's a real touchstone. I

480
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: said that I don't watch true crime, but one of

481
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 1: my favorite programs of all time that actually appeared on

482
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: Netflix was was the show now I've told you about

483
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: it and called The Pharmacist. I watch that, by the way, Yeah,

484
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 1: and it's it's just gut wrenching, uh with uh with

485
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: what this man went through relative to his son. And

486
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 1: he uncovered this idea of pill mills, right, and and

487
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: what this uh, this group of physicians are this organization

488
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 1: was willing to do in order to feed these addictions

489
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: of these you know, to these individuals. You know, when

490
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: when you're a medical examiner, uh and you work a

491
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: case like this because you know, as I said, it

492
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 1: can get confusing. I think you find an individual who

493
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 1: is floating essentially face down in a standalone jacuzzi on

494
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 1: his property, uh, mister Perry's property. That is, you go

495
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: in to uh do the autopsy, and you discover that

496
00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 1: he does in fact present with elements of drowning in

497
00:33:51,200 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: his death. But is drowning actually the cause of death?

498
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: And that that gets into this this gray area where

499
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 1: you're wondering, was the amount of kettyming that he had

500
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: on board? Was it as as physicians are prone to

501
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:15,240
Speaker 1: say in my world forensic pathologists, that it's incompatible with life,

502
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,880
Speaker 1: you know, the level of drugs that you have on board,

503
00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: or was it falling over into the water. And the

504
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: autopsy demonstrated that he did in fact drowned. And here's

505
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: another interesting little point that we look for, you know,

506
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:34,320
Speaker 1: at at autopsy. And these two things are kind of fascinating.

507
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:44,280
Speaker 1: This drug, like an opiate, actually depresses your respiratory system,

508
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: and it can make your drunk, your your lungs kind

509
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: of heavy. Okay, if you will you go into like

510
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:55,600
Speaker 1: this congestive event. Well, this mechanism is not too dissimilar

511
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,239
Speaker 1: from the process of drowning, because that's one of the

512
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: things that happens. You begin to, you know, take on water.

513
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: You can imagine you passed out. I don't know if anyone,

514
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:09,319
Speaker 1: I don't know if anyone's ever you know, kind of

515
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 1: fallen asleep in the tub before, in a warm bath

516
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 1: and you slip off into the water and all of

517
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: a sudden you're choking on water. That's actually happened to

518
00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,320
Speaker 1: me before working midnights and coming home taking a hot bath,

519
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: and I've fallen sleep in a bathtub. It's terrifying. But

520
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: you know, when you have this drug on board, your

521
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: system is so depressed at that point in time that

522
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: you can't recover from this kind of fatal spiral that

523
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: you're in because of the drug. So you have these

524
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: two two potential causes of death with Matthew Perry's fatal

525
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 1: event here that they're going to be looking at, and

526
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:51,640
Speaker 1: now that they have actually affected not an arrest, but

527
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 1: multiple arrests relative to this five people moving forward. That's

528
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: going to be interesting to see how this is played out.

529
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: And one other thing, Dave, I'm going to be interested

530
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 1: to see if the physicians that are involved in this

531
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 1: pay close attention here, folks, I'm telling you if the

532
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,960
Speaker 1: physicians in this particular case are treated the same way

533
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: as the Keteming Queen. All right, and think about that

534
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: just for a second, because many times there are events

535
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 1: that occur involving physicians where the term medical misadventure is

536
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 1: talked about. Generally, that's like a surgical intervention where something

537
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:39,080
Speaker 1: happens and someone dies. But I wonder, I just wonder

538
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: in this case, are they going to be as robust

539
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: with their pursuit of justice in this case relative to

540
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: the physicians as they will with this lady, the Keteming Queen.

541
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Packs.

542
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 2: Who knows