1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to steph you missed in history class from how 2 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: Stuff Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy B. Wilson and I'm Holly Trying. Today's podcast 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 1: is a request from many listeners once again, and they 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: include Georgia, Bree, Laura, Anna, Lauren, and Tabitha, who asked 6 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: for it after I had actually already started working on it, 7 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: and I'm sure many other people. It moved up to 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: the top of the list after sort of tangentially coming 9 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: up in our Irah Frederick Aldridge episode. Aldridge played a 10 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: character called Orinoco in The Revolt of Surinam, and that 11 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: was an adaptation of the play Orinoco by Thomas Southern, 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: And that was an adaptation of Orinocco, a short work 13 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: of fiction by today's subject afra Ben. There is really 14 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: not a lot that's conclusively known about the life of Afroban, who, 15 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: in addition to being a spy, was also a dramatist 16 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:10,480 Speaker 1: and a poet, a novelist, a translator, and probably the 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: first woman in English literature known to have made a 18 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: living as a writer. Even though she was prolific in 19 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: her work, her gender meant that the sorts of institutions 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: that were mostly keeping up with the details of writers 21 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: and artists lives at the time did not really include her. 22 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: Since she wasn't an aristocrat, there was no official family history, 23 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 1: and she didn't really keep a diary or write a 24 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: memoir or or corresponding a lot of letters, at least 25 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: not many of that actually survived. And yet, even though 26 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: there is so little concrete information, she's the subject of 27 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: multiple biographies, and some of them are quite lengthy. Uh. 28 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 1: With so little actual documentation to go on, a lot 29 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:53,520 Speaker 1: of these sort of pick up tiny pieces of the 30 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: historical record and then try to glean details of her 31 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: life from her written work. And this means that a 32 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: lot of my agraphies about her are very heavily subject 33 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: to interpretation. They tend to be influenced a lot by 34 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: the biographers focus and their interpretation of her body of work. Uh. 35 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: And in some cases, if you've read the words, probably 36 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,280 Speaker 1: and may have, you read like a quarter of the 37 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: thing at least. So we're gonna do our best on 38 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 1: this one. I feel like you're describing some sort of 39 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: Afroban biographical mad libs kind of is. I mean, every 40 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: biography is influenced by the biographer, even if you're trying, 41 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 1: you know, even if the biographers trying really hard to 42 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 1: have a very objective stance. This is particularly true with 43 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: Afriban because there's so much that's like trying to piece 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: together a teeny little puzzle with aty bitty pieces to 45 00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: make a whole life out of Yeah, with big gaps 46 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,360 Speaker 1: in the puzzle. Uh So it won't surprise you having 47 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: listened to that introduction, that there is very very little 48 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 1: known about Afroban's early life, and most of what we 49 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: do know has been reconstructed did as Tracy just mentioned 50 00:03:02,000 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 1: by following the threads available, a lot of which are 51 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: other people's claims about her, and then the logical conclusions 52 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: are drawn from there. So it is generally agreed that 53 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: she was born sometime around sixteen forty, probably to a 54 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 1: family who lived in why A village in Kent, England. 55 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: Colonel Thomas Culpepper claimed that afra Ban's mother was his 56 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: wet nurse and her father was reported to be a barber, 57 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: so this makes the most likely candidates for her parents, 58 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: Bartholomew and Elizabeth Johnson. They had a daughter, e Free 59 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 1: spelled e A F. F r e y, and that 60 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: was one of the many many variations in spelling for 61 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: the name Afra at the time. This young e free 62 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: was baptized on December fourteenth of sixteen forty, although some 63 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 1: sources report that as the day of her birth. With 64 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: her mother as his wet nurse, Afra would have been 65 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: considered Thomas culpeppers foster sister, and the Culpeppers were a 66 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: prominent family in the area. This connection to the cold 67 00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: Peppers would have given Afra access to far more educational 68 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: opportunities and a wider social circle than she would have 69 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 1: had as just the daughter of a wet nurse in 70 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: a barber Although we don't have a lot of details 71 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: about the specifics of her childhood and her adolescence, we 72 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: do know that Afra grew up during a period of 73 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: huge chaos and change. The English Civil Wars began when 74 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: she was still a toddler, and this is a series 75 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: of wars that obviously could be at least a whole 76 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 1: episode all by themselves, so very briefly, the English Civil 77 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 1: Wars also involved Scotland and Ireland, and they grew out 78 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: of a conflict between King Charles the First and Parliament 79 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: about who ultimately had control over the military. Following an 80 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: uprising in Ireland during the English Civil Wars, the Parliamentarians 81 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: faced off against the Royalists in a series of conflicts 82 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: that ultimately led to a victory for the Parliamentarians. The 83 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: execution of Charles the First in sixteen forty nine, the 84 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: exile of his son Charles the Second, and the political 85 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,880 Speaker 1: rise of Oliver Cromwell, first Lord Protector of the Commonwealth 86 00:05:08,920 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 1: of England, Scotland and Ireland. The total death toll in 87 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: England was almost two hundred thousand. Obviously, that is as 88 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: like the tiniest possible description of the English Civil Wars. 89 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 1: During the interregnum years that followed from sixteen forty nine 90 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,600 Speaker 1: to sixteen sixty, the nation was no longer actively at 91 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: war with itself, but it still had its fair share 92 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: of strife. Many of those in Parliament were Puritans, and 93 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,720 Speaker 1: they started enforcing Puritans standards and views for the rest 94 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: of the nation. Cromwell himself had a reputation as a 95 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: radical and a fanatic, and his actions during the Civil 96 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: Wars had included, among other things, a massacre in Ireland. 97 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 1: Throughout the interregnum, Royalists continued to work toward the goal 98 00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: of restoring the monarchy. There's some speculation and that toward 99 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: the end of the interregnum, Ben was already beginning her 100 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:08,799 Speaker 1: career as a spy by secretly carrying messages for Royalist organizations. 101 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 1: She would have been connected to these organizations once again 102 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: through Thomas Culpepper. Oliver Cromwell died in sixteen fifty eight, 103 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 1: and by sixteen sixty one Charles the Second had been 104 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 1: returned to the throne. So by the time Aframan hit 105 00:06:23,000 --> 00:06:26,919 Speaker 1: her twenties, England had already been through a lot, and 106 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: with Charles the Second's return, English life dramatically changed once 107 00:06:31,320 --> 00:06:34,360 Speaker 1: again and a lot of circles. The restoration was met 108 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: with a huge, hedonistic, fairly drunken party, and it was 109 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 1: in this environment that afro Been really flourished a whole 110 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 1: lot more than during the more puritanical interregnum years. In 111 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 1: sixteen sixty three, when she was in her early twenties, 112 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: Been traveled to Surinam, and this would later become the 113 00:06:54,920 --> 00:06:59,119 Speaker 1: setting for her work of fiction Orinocco. Orinocco is often 114 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: discussed as part of Ben's earlier work because her visit 115 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 1: there would have happened, as we just said, when she 116 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:07,480 Speaker 1: was in her early twenties, but in reality this piece 117 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: wasn't published until shortly before her death. Orinocco tells the 118 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: story of a prince from the Gold Coast and what 119 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: is now Ghana who's invited aboard a ship and then 120 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: enslaved before being sold in Surinam, and that's where he 121 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: meets the book's narrator. This narrator is an english woman 122 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 1: who had come to Surinam with her father, but he 123 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,680 Speaker 1: died during the sea voyage. Some biographies actually take this 124 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: plot point from Orinoco and apply it to Ben's real 125 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: life father, although he had likely died by the early 126 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: mid sixteen sixties. It's completely unclear whether this aspect of 127 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: Orinoco is supposed to be autobiographical. There's also a debate 128 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: about whether the book's narrator is supposed to be a 129 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: stand in for Ben herself, and that part similarly foggy. 130 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: But since Orinocco does contain a lot of detail about 131 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 1: Surinam and people who really lived there in the sixties sixties, 132 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: it's easy to think of it as evidence that the 133 00:08:01,080 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 1: trip to Surinam really did happen. Regardless of whether the 134 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 1: story it tells is supposed to be autobiographical. Also, although 135 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: Ben's own views on slavery are pretty hard to tease 136 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: out from her writing, Orinoco itself was considered an abolitionist 137 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: work of fiction in both the eighteenth and nineteen centuries. Yeah, 138 00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: there are a lot of attempts to try to figure 139 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: out what her racial views were based on the content 140 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: of her writing, And the most logical conclusion is that 141 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: she had a lot of the prejudices that were sort 142 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:41,160 Speaker 1: of ingrained in society, especially English society at the time. Um. 143 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: And it's like when you read Orinoco, and a lot 144 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: of it is very sympathetic to the people who are 145 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: enslaved in the book, but it's it's sort of a 146 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 1: most like proto abolitionist text, like it was definitely read 147 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: that way for a couple of centuries. But there's also 148 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in it that that is, you know, 149 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 1: obviously laced with implicit biases and racism because it was 150 00:09:05,960 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 1: written in the six century. Even though Orinocco itself as 151 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 1: a book didn't come out until much later. Afroman was 152 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: writing while in Surinam, including an early draft of a 153 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: play called The Young King or a Mistake. Like several 154 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: of Ben's other plays, it's a tragic comedy, and it 155 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 1: tells the story of a royal brother and sister brought 156 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: up in opposite roles because of a prophecy. The boy 157 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: is quote kept from his infancy and a castle on 158 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: a lake, ignorant of his quality and of all the world, 159 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: besides never having seen any humane things save only his 160 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 1: old tutor, while the girl is quote bred up in 161 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,120 Speaker 1: war and designed to reign in place of her brother. 162 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:55,559 Speaker 1: It plays around with gender and ideas of masculinity and femininity, 163 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: which is a hallmark of Ben's later work as well. 164 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: Then tripped to Surinam wasn't particularly long. She returned to 165 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: England in sixteen sixty four, and not long after she 166 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: was given an audience with King Charles the Second to 167 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: report on what she had witnessed there. It's not completely 168 00:10:13,120 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: clear whether the King saw this as part of her 169 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:18,679 Speaker 1: spy career, but she definitely spied for him later, and 170 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna start talking about that, but first we're gonna 171 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,079 Speaker 1: pause and have a little bit of a sponsor break. 172 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:31,719 Speaker 1: About the same time as she returned from Surinam in 173 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: sixteen sixty four, Afriban married a man whose name was 174 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 1: as you would conclude Ben or maybe being described as 175 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: quote a merchant of Dutch extraction. It might have been 176 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: the Great Plague of London which struck in sixteen sixty 177 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,559 Speaker 1: five that killed Ben's husband. He was dead by sixteen 178 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: sixty six. On top of the plague, England was once 179 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 1: again at war. The Second Anglo Dutch War began on 180 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,360 Speaker 1: March fourth of sixteen sixty five, and this part of 181 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 1: a series of four wars between England and the Dutch 182 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: Republic and their allies. The first three were largely trade wars, 183 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 1: but the fourth was in response to Dutch involvement in 184 00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:15,719 Speaker 1: the American Revolutionary War. Regardless of whether Ben had officially 185 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,200 Speaker 1: been doing spy work during the interregnum or in Surinam, 186 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: she definitely was during the Second Anglo Dutch War, using 187 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: the code name Astraea. Ultimately reporting to the Secretary of State, 188 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:30,120 Speaker 1: Lord Henry Bennett. She was assigned to travel to Antwerp, 189 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: which is now in Belgium but was then in Spanish Netherlands, 190 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: to meet with William Scott. Scott's father, Thomas, had been 191 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 1: the man who signed Charles the first death warrant for 192 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: which he was later executed, and Scott himself was essentially 193 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: acting as a double agent. He was gathering intelligence for 194 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: England while also informing on the English to the Dutch. 195 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: Armed with bribe, money and the promise of a pardon, 196 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 1: Ben's mission was to figure out whether Scott had worthwhile intelligence, 197 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: and if he did, to get that intelligence back to England. 198 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: Ben was likely chosen for this mission because she and 199 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: Scott had met in Surinam. They had a bit of 200 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: a flirtation there. In theory, this flirtation was nothing serious 201 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: enough to jeopardize Ben's judgment, but it was enough of 202 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 1: an existing connection to Scott to sort of soften him 203 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: up a little. She was given passage to Spanish Flanders 204 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,040 Speaker 1: and enough money to take care of her own needs 205 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: during a short stay there. Her brother, who was in 206 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: the military, was temporary temporarily released from service to act 207 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: as her chaperone. Apparently, Lord Bennett wasn't wasn't aware that 208 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: she was a widow, which would have given her a 209 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,280 Speaker 1: little more autonomy than an unmarried woman would have had. 210 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: She received her money and instructions in July of sixteen 211 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 1: sixty six and She was an Antwerp by August, but 212 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: her time as a spy was not very successful. She 213 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 1: flirted with Scott until he finally agreed to pass her information, 214 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: but then he got her to agree to leave Antwerp 215 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: and meet him in the Hague. And if she did that, 216 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: not only was she very likely to be captured, but 217 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: she was also sure to run out of her already 218 00:13:07,920 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: dwindling supply of money. And this started the pair of 219 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,280 Speaker 1: them on a cycle of back and forth, with him 220 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: getting her to agree to leave Flanders, and then her 221 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 1: pulling back on that agreement and another hiccup. This back 222 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: and forth between Scott and Ben also got tangled up 223 00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: with one William Corney, a merchant from Amsterdam who was 224 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 1: also passing intelligence back to Lord Bennett. Before long, the 225 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: three of them were just continually trying to undermine one another, 226 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:38,760 Speaker 1: and this convoluted backstabby triangle, word of which spread to 227 00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 1: London and started to threaten Ben's reputation. The idea that 228 00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: Ben's previous flirtation with Scott wouldn't be a threat to 229 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,360 Speaker 1: her also didn't really pan out, as Corney became a 230 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: greater threat to both of them. They started to rely 231 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,080 Speaker 1: on and confide in each other in a way that 232 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: didn't really leave Ben a whole lot of power to 233 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: try to get the man to give her information. Eventually, 234 00:14:01,760 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: Scott fled Flanders out of fear that Corny was going 235 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,000 Speaker 1: to kill him, and once he was gone, Corny focused 236 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: all his attention on Ben, tailing her and forging reports 237 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: in her name to discredit her. Scott wound up in prison, 238 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 1: and although he did keep writing to Ben, he couldn't 239 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: learn much while behind bars, and she had no way 240 00:14:21,240 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: to pay for a passage home. When Scott was released 241 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,800 Speaker 1: from prison in sixteen sixty seven, he was also banished, 242 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: leaving Ben with no way of getting whatever intelligence he 243 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: still had. Throughout all of this, Ben was using ciphers 244 00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: and codes to send information back to London, but very 245 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: little of this information was of actual value. She's often 246 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: reported as having passed on a warning of the Dutch 247 00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: raid on Medway, which took place in June of sixteen 248 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,240 Speaker 1: sixty seven. This raid was a devastating blow to the 249 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: British Navy, and while this is technically true, she did 250 00:14:56,200 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: send that information, other agents also delivered this aim information 251 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: and none of it was heated, not even when another 252 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: agent gave Lord Bennett a very specific warning about the 253 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: upcoming attack after Ben had already returned to London, and 254 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: getting back to London required Ben to beg for the 255 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 1: funds to do so. She'd been so low on money 256 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: that she'd handed over all her possessions to her innkeeper 257 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: as collateral so she wouldn't lose her lodgings along with 258 00:15:24,120 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: everything else. Although she was able to get a couple 259 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: of loans to pay off the worst of her debts, 260 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: it was only after numerous letters and lots of borrowing 261 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 1: that she was able to get someone to pay for 262 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: her passage. And it's unclear who that was, but it 263 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: wasn't the administration that had sent her to Antwerp in 264 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: the first place. Even though her spy life was not 265 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: very effective, but still was pretty crummy that she was 266 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: sent on this mission with no way of getting back 267 00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: home out of hostile territory. According to most accounts, after 268 00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: Afroban's returned to England in the spring of sixteen sixty seven, 269 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: she wound up in a debtor's prison. There's very little 270 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 1: detail on this. She had written multiple letters to the 271 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: people who had recruited her into the life of espionage 272 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: and to other contacts that she had, all in an 273 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: effort to pay off her debts. And it seems as 274 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,680 Speaker 1: though she either eventually did get someone to loan her 275 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: enough money to get out of prison, or she made 276 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,160 Speaker 1: arrangement arrangements to pay her debt off gradually as she 277 00:16:24,280 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: was able to earn enough money to do so. And 278 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: the way that she earned that money was by writing, 279 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that after we once 280 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: again paused for a quick sponsor break. After she got 281 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:42,040 Speaker 1: out of the debtor's prison, afro Ben was able to 282 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: make something of a fresh start for herself. By the 283 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: summer of sixteen sixty seven, London had recently been through 284 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: both the Great Plague and the Great Fire, and although 285 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:54,960 Speaker 1: the raid on Medway had taken place at the mouth 286 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: of the Thames River and not up in the city, 287 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: it had destroyed much of the British naval fleet and 288 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: block hated the city, which left the already shaken people 289 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: living there feeling particularly defenseless. So in a fairly dispirited 290 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: and anxious city, Ben was able to quietly make a 291 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,879 Speaker 1: space for herself, renting lodgings and working as a copyist, 292 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: probably copying the sorts of material people would want handled 293 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 1: with more discretion than a commercial printing press could allow. 294 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: While copying definitely would have helped her make ends meet, 295 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:30,920 Speaker 1: it was not really enough to live comfortably, and soon 296 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: Ben was also writing and publishing poems. She adopted her 297 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 1: code name Austraya for a pseudonym for a lot of 298 00:17:37,880 --> 00:17:40,119 Speaker 1: her written work as it was published at the time. 299 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: Fortunately for Ben, King Charles the second loved the theater, 300 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: and he chartered to theater companies known as the King's 301 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:51,439 Speaker 1: Company and the Duke's Company. The King's Company had the 302 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: rights to a lot of existing plays, including works by 303 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 1: Shakespeare and Ben Johnson. The Duke's Company didn't, meaning there 304 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,200 Speaker 1: was a market for newly written plays. The plays themselves 305 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: were often Body and Blue, with women allowed on the 306 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,920 Speaker 1: stage rather than having female roles played by men. It's 307 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: unclear exactly how Ben first got her foot in the 308 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,840 Speaker 1: door as a playwright through her spy work. She did 309 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: no Thomas Killigrew, who was head of the King's Men 310 00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: and later the Master of the Revels, but it was 311 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:24,359 Speaker 1: the Duke's Company and not the King's where her work 312 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:27,640 Speaker 1: first debuted. Of her first play to be staged. There 313 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 1: was The Forced Marriage or The Jealous Bridegroom, a tragic comedy, 314 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 1: which opened on September. Ben was much savvier about playwriting 315 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:40,440 Speaker 1: as an occupation than she had been about her espionage career. 316 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: She wanted to make sure she kept the rights to 317 00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,440 Speaker 1: her plays, and she wanted them to be published, which 318 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,760 Speaker 1: would give her an additional source of income. Most of 319 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: her plays were also published during her lifetime, although the 320 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,199 Speaker 1: first printing of The Forced Marriage, which was probably rushed 321 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 1: to follow the plays performance and take advantage of that publicity, 322 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 1: was full of error, herosism, things printed and completely the 323 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:08,000 Speaker 1: wrong order. It was kind of a mess. Her next 324 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: play to be staged opened just a few months later, 325 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,880 Speaker 1: and it was named The Amorous Prince, and like its 326 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: name suggests, it's full of seductions and it plays around 327 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: a lot with gender and cross dressing in a way 328 00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:23,360 Speaker 1: that would become a frequent theme in Ben's works. Ben 329 00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:26,960 Speaker 1: would go on to write nineteen plays, including the two parts. 330 00:19:27,119 --> 00:19:30,879 Speaker 1: The Rover was seventeen of them stage during her lifetime. 331 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,120 Speaker 1: She wasn't the first woman to write for the British stage, 332 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: but the idea of a woman playwright was still rare 333 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: enough that her position was relatively unique, and she got 334 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: a lot of criticism for the more risk ay content 335 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: of her work, which was full of innuendo and double entendres. 336 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,880 Speaker 1: This was particularly true since in both her plays and 337 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: her novels, she seemed to blur the line between her 338 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,320 Speaker 1: narrator and herself. Even so, she pointed to similarities in 339 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: the work of her contemporaries and predecessors as evidence that 340 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:04,040 Speaker 1: it would not have been frowned upon if she were 341 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: a man. As the theater gradually fell a little bit 342 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: more out of favor in the sixteen eighties, Ben shifted 343 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: her focus to writing novels, and she penned sixteen works 344 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,240 Speaker 1: of fiction, all of which have narrators who were either 345 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: obviously female or have no specified gender. She also continued 346 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 1: to write poetry throughout her career, and although some of 347 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,600 Speaker 1: her poems were incorporated into her plays and fiction, many 348 00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,480 Speaker 1: of them were meant for a smaller audience. They often 349 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 1: contained inside references to what was going on in London 350 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: society and politics, sometimes with names changed but otherwise easily 351 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:42,600 Speaker 1: recognizable to people in the no Some of her poems 352 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:46,520 Speaker 1: were essentially social and political commentary, rendered in verse and 353 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,360 Speaker 1: only really understandable if you knew the context of what 354 00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: was going on around her. Much of Ben's work, especially 355 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: in poetry, was romantic and sensual and even erotic, with 356 00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: both women and men as the sub jecks of her 357 00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 1: love poems, some of which also played with themes of 358 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: androgyny and gender fluidity. The relationships depicted in her dramas 359 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: are all over the map in terms of gender and 360 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 1: sexual orientation. In terms of her personal life, her most 361 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: public relationship during her time as a writer was with 362 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,320 Speaker 1: John Hoyle, whose own life with threat was threaded through 363 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,800 Speaker 1: with lots and lots of scandal, including his relationships with 364 00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: other men. As Ben's writing career became more lucrative, she 365 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:33,639 Speaker 1: became increasingly more active in London society. She developed a 366 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 1: reputation for being witty and charismatic and of liking to drink. 367 00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: She earned the nickname the Incomparable Australia, and in her 368 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: poetry people called her the successor to Sappho. After more 369 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:49,960 Speaker 1: than twenty years making a living as a writer, Afroban 370 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: died on April sixteenth, eighty nine, at roughly fifty years old. 371 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 1: A few days later, a piece called an elegy upon 372 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: the death of Mrs A Ben, the incomparable Drea, written 373 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: by quote a young lady of quality, was published. It 374 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 1: read in part quote, let all our hopes to spare 375 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: and die our sex forever shall neglected. Lie. Aspiring man 376 00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,000 Speaker 1: has now regained this way to them, we've lost the 377 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: dismal day. The first biography of her came out in 378 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: sixteen ninety six, called Memoirs of the Life of Mrs Ben, 379 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: by a Gentlewoman of her acquaintance, and that was part 380 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: of her collected histories and novels. Although its author was 381 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: likely Charles Gilden, the first uh. This first biography is 382 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,639 Speaker 1: definitely a mix of embellishment, absolute total fiction, and a 383 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: little bit of fact, and it was written in part 384 00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: to try to sell the collection of her work with 385 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,480 Speaker 1: which it was published. Even so, that and passages of 386 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: her fiction that seem autobiographical have been picked up and 387 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: repeated as fact over and over throughout the centuries. Although 388 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 1: today afro Ben is known as one of the seventeenth 389 00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:03,919 Speaker 1: century these most influential playwrights and a groundbreaking writer in 390 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 1: the genre of the novel, she fell sharply out of 391 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:11,080 Speaker 1: favor after her death as the hedonism and licentiousness and 392 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,680 Speaker 1: that general drunken party flare of the Restoration became socially unacceptable, 393 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 1: so did Afriban and her work. Critics decried her as 394 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,160 Speaker 1: a woman of loose moral character, and they condemned her 395 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,879 Speaker 1: work outright. That started to change though, in the early 396 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: twentieth century, when the English writers and artists known as 397 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,120 Speaker 1: the Bloomsbury Group picked up her life and work as 398 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 1: part of feminist history. Poet and novelist Vita Sackville West 399 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: wrote Afraban The Incomparable Austraia, which was a biographical fiction 400 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: that seems to treat Ben's life as a missed opportunity. 401 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: Author Virginia Wolfe wrote of her quote, all women together 402 00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: ought to let flowers fall upon the tomb of afra Been, 403 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: for it was she who earned them the right to 404 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,600 Speaker 1: speak their minds. It's kind of funny, they both seemed 405 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: to pray. It's her so highly for having made a 406 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:05,879 Speaker 1: living as a writer. Uh and have an affinity for 407 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: some of the like same sex content or her poems 408 00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: and some of which are read as uh like explicitly 409 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 1: lesbian love poems. But they have this theme, this sort 410 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 1: of undertone of like I wish she hadn't been writing 411 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 1: such garbage in terms of like all this very coarse 412 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 1: humor and body sexuality. Um. But you know, today I 413 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: think folks are a lot, a lot more accepting of 414 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: that part of it than they maybe were in the 415 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: nineteen hundreds. Do you also have some listener mail for us? 416 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: I sure do. Before I get to that, Afred's very 417 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 1: large book, Janet Todd's The Secret Life of Afra Ben 418 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: is one of the many resources of this It is 419 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:54,920 Speaker 1: astonishingly hefty considering how little of her work is known about, 420 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,720 Speaker 1: but it gets into a whole lot of um other 421 00:24:57,800 --> 00:24:59,680 Speaker 1: stuff that was going on in Britain in the time, 422 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: and analysis of her work, and lots and lots of 423 00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: good stuff. So if you want to learn more, uh, 424 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,080 Speaker 1: that is one place to go before we get to 425 00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 1: listener mail. It is still March. March is still tripod month. 426 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: When podcaster talking about other podcasts that we listened to 427 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: and love, I really really enjoyed the Politically Reactive podcast 428 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:27,360 Speaker 1: with W. Kmal Bell and Harrie Condabulu, which came out 429 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: in the weeks leading up to and just after the 430 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:34,760 Speaker 1: presidential election, with really interesting interviews with lots of folks 431 00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 1: about the political climate in the United States and uh 432 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: different issues relevant to the election. And Holly just let 433 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: me know that there's going to be a second season 434 00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: and I'm so excited me too. That was like a 435 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: magical little gift in my podcast app this morning. Ha 436 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: was there little mini episode where they said that that 437 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 1: was going to happen. Yes, So I am very much 438 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: looking forward to that. So if you go on h 439 00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: on Twitter looking at the hashtag tripod t r y 440 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: p o D, you will find lots of recommendations from 441 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: us and from other people. And now I will get 442 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: to uh some listener mail, and this is from Madeline. 443 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,439 Speaker 1: Madeline says, Hi, they're Tracy and Holly. I have to 444 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,520 Speaker 1: tell y'all that I had a bit of an odd 445 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: reaction when I saw the title of your newest episode 446 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: pop up in my phone's notifications yesterday. I was a 447 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: bit excited, in spite of the grizzly topic, because it 448 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: is a piece of history I know about and have 449 00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:32,600 Speaker 1: a distant familial connection to. Growing up, my nuclear family 450 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: typically visited my great grandparents, my mother's mother's parents, and Henderson, 451 00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: Texas every Thanksgiving. Very occasionally in between. These great grandparents 452 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:43,199 Speaker 1: both lived until I was a grown woman, so I 453 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 1: have fond memories of them and their home from childhood, 454 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 1: my teenage years, and into college. I specifically remember enjoying 455 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: looking at the photos and what we call the family 456 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: gallery at their house. I did this at my grandmother's 457 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,360 Speaker 1: house to occasionally at my own childhood home. This tradition 458 00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,399 Speaker 1: of hanging all our family photos and one section of 459 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: wall in a hallway was continued in my own home. Now. 460 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 1: Generations of children in my family have used these galleries 461 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 1: to learn who all their people are, including my own child. 462 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: At my great grandparents house, there was one picture in 463 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: the gallery that I was always a bit puzzled by. 464 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: It was hard to remember who the young blonde girl 465 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 1: in the old black and white photo was and how 466 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 1: I was related to her. I was usually only told 467 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,920 Speaker 1: something along the lines of that's grandmother's cousin who died 468 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,679 Speaker 1: in the New London explosion, and that's it. At some 469 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: point someone told me her name Maxim and that the 470 00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: explosion was at the school. I suspect a combination of 471 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 1: my own tender age and a general reluctance in Ruskue 472 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: County to talk about the tragedy had led to me 473 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: knowing very little about Maxim, but her photo was always 474 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,679 Speaker 1: there in the family gallery. Before I listened to your 475 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: podcast about the explosion, I called my mom for more 476 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,680 Speaker 1: of our family's information. Shouldn't have a whole lot to 477 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: add about ten year old Maxine and not knowing much 478 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,679 Speaker 1: more than I do myself, but I should tell me 479 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: more about the explosion than I had heard before. Apparently, 480 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: being nearly nearly thirty years old, I am no longer 481 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: to ten or an age for these things. Her account 482 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 1: was that about three hundred people died and an explosion 483 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: at the school caused by a natural gas link in 484 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,200 Speaker 1: the basement. She added that this one horrific day in 485 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: a small East Texas town as the reason natural gas 486 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 1: now has a smell, and she also mentioned that boards 487 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 1: were put down to help smooth out the path to 488 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: the rebel for trucks that were coming to help, only 489 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 1: later to realize that some of the dead had been 490 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:23,520 Speaker 1: under those boards. And the other than these things my 491 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: mother referred to me, My mother referred me to her 492 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,439 Speaker 1: mother for more. So I've emailed a link to your 493 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: show to my grandmother along with her request for more 494 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: information about the explosion. She was still an infant living 495 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: with her parents and Henderson at the time, but she 496 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 1: is an excellent family historian, so I hope for some 497 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 1: insight and that she will allow me to share it 498 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,520 Speaker 1: with y'all. Before I finished up, I have a question 499 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: about a small detail in the episode. My mom mentioned 500 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 1: a basement at the school. I interrupted her to point 501 00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,440 Speaker 1: out the oddity of such an idea. I grew up 502 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:55,280 Speaker 1: in Central Texas, where the idea of a basement is laughable. 503 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: The limestone is too close to the surface of the 504 00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,719 Speaker 1: soil for basements to be cost if I theyve in 505 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: most situations the state capital nonwithstanding, But having visited East 506 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,800 Speaker 1: Texas so often throughout my life, the idea of a 507 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: basement in the school in New London seems odd too. 508 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,959 Speaker 1: I've never heard of a basements in Rusk County before, 509 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: so I take a particular note when y'all said that 510 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 1: was the space below a hollow floor where the gas accumulated. 511 00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: At the introduction of Your Texas Monthly source that interview 512 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 1: survivors also calls it a basement. Haven't looked through all 513 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: the show notes for the episode yet, but I'm wondering 514 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,200 Speaker 1: why you did not call it a basement. Was it 515 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: an actual basement? Is was the basement a word used 516 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 1: by people in the region to describe something along the 517 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 1: lines of an enclosed crawl space, or wasn't something else? 518 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: Based on y'all's description, I'm picturing something that is essentially 519 00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: the opposite of a drop ceiling. I hope it is 520 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: not as odd as what I mentioned. Uh. And then 521 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: she goes on to um say that she'll let us 522 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: know if her grandfather has any good tidbits. UM, and 523 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: thanks us both for the work we do on the podcast. 524 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,040 Speaker 1: Thank you, Madeleine. Uh. I wanted to read that for 525 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: two reasons. One is the personal connection of the other 526 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: is the basement. The idea that the explosions started in 527 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: a basement is all over the place among survivor accounts, 528 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 1: But there is so much contradictory detail about what the 529 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: school's structure was actually like, uh, that I don't think 530 00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 1: we can answer the question of whether there was really 531 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: a full basement. Like I think of a basement is 532 00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: a thing you could walk down to on stairs that 533 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,640 Speaker 1: has like an a full ceiling above your head. Right, 534 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: I'm gesturing versus like a crawl. Right, So it's even 535 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: in the more detailed descriptions of the school, the description 536 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 1: is like not necessarily that there was something that was 537 00:30:46,160 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: a full basement the entire length of the school. Like, 538 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: it's just very hard to pen down and confusing, and 539 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: possibly if I like went to Rest County and dug 540 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: through old blueprints of the school, that question could be 541 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: conclusively answered to be well. And it also gets into 542 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 1: the semantics of the word basement right right, like what 543 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: somebody would call a seller, or someone else might call 544 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: a basement, someone else might call across space. So literally 545 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: looked this up in the Oxford English Dictionary. Uh so, yeah, 546 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: it's unclear, and like there are a lot of things 547 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: in the survivor accounts that seem to have been picked 548 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,240 Speaker 1: up and have become part of the collective memory, but 549 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: are definitely not what happened. Um, Like a news a 550 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: news station posted about the uh the anniversary of the tragedy, 551 00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: and somebody tagged our podcast page, which is why I 552 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: even saw it. And there was some there were people 553 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: commenting that were like, yes, I was there that day. 554 00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:49,120 Speaker 1: I was in the gym with my mom because of 555 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:53,120 Speaker 1: the gas smell, but there definitely was no gas smell. 556 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: So like we have this combination of the fact that 557 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,760 Speaker 1: the building was completely obliterated and had been built almost 558 00:32:00,400 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: you know, more than eighty years ago at this point, 559 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,160 Speaker 1: and the most of the folks alive today who still 560 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 1: remember it were small children at time, so I could 561 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: not tell you whether it was really a basement. UH. 562 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,400 Speaker 1: If if you would like to write to us about 563 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:19,840 Speaker 1: this or any other podcasts or I don't know, send 564 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: us a scan of the blueprints. We originally New London 565 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: School or History podcast at how stuff works dot com. 566 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:30,320 Speaker 1: We're also on Facebook dot at Facebook dot com, slash 567 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: miss in History on Twitter at miss in History. That 568 00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: miss in History is basically our name all over social media, 569 00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: so that's also where you will find our tumbler and 570 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: our pinterest in our Instagram. 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