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Speaker 1: Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Killer Thriller with your host,

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Speaker 1: Elisa Donovan.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody. Elisa Donovan here, and this is Killer Thriller.

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Speaker 2: Some kidnappings happen in an instant. Others happen so gradually

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Speaker 2: that the victim doesn't even realize they're being trapped. At

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Speaker 2: just 14 years old, Tanya Kach was groomed by a

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Speaker 2: trusted school security guard. a relationship that turned into nearly

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Speaker 2: a decade of captivity, manipulation, and abuse. Lifetime's The Girl

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Speaker 2: Locked Upstairs, The Tanya Katch Story, executive produced by kidnapping

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Speaker 2: survivor Elizabeth Smart, brings Tanya's extraordinary story of survival to

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Speaker 2: the screen while exploring the devastating power of grooming and

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Speaker 2: coercive control. Today, I am joined by actress Jordan Ashley Olsen,

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Speaker 2: who portrays Tanya Katch. We'll talk about meeting the real Tanya,

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Speaker 2: bringing her remarkable story to life, and what this case

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Speaker 2: teaches us about grooming, resilience, and survival. Hi, Jordan. Welcome

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Speaker 2: to Killer Thriller. Thank you so much for doing this today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: So first of all, congratulations on a remarkable performance. This

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Speaker 2: movie is very, very important and upsetting. And your performance

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Speaker 2: is really terrific. And portraying a real survivor who was

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Speaker 2: actively involved in telling her own story is an incredible responsibility.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how did that feel? It was very.

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Speaker 1: Intimidating at first, especially knowing how directly involved she was

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Speaker 1: with the project. Because even without that, it would have

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Speaker 1: felt heavy. because there's this responsibility to do her story justice.

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Speaker 1: And knowing that in the short amount of time that

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Speaker 1: you have to do this to show her story, it's

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Speaker 1: not going to capture everything. You're not going to get

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Speaker 1: everything because it's such a, someone's life and someone's trauma

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Speaker 1: can't be contained in one movie. It doesn't work that way.

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Speaker 1: It's too big. It's too all encompassing. So narrowing it

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Speaker 1: down and trying to give it the depth that needs

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Speaker 1: was a, challenge, but it was, I don't like to

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Speaker 1: use the word fun, but it was kind of fun

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Speaker 1: as an actor to like dive into something like this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think also, you know, I say

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Speaker 2: this all the time that sometimes this business is a

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Speaker 2: noble one, you know, and we get to do something

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Speaker 2: that's really meaningful. And I would think that that is

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Speaker 2: part of, that's what's, what, what is fun, right? Is

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Speaker 2: doing something that feels important and meaningful.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it felt like a good, like it's a story

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Speaker 1: that needed to be told. Her story needed to be

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Speaker 1: told and shared and she was willing to do that,

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Speaker 1: which is such a brave thing to do. Talking about

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Speaker 1: something so openly like this is not something a lot

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Speaker 1: of people want to do, nor should they if they

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Speaker 1: don't feel like they can. And it was incredibly brave

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Speaker 1: that she came forward and told her story.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I totally agree. Did you, were you familiar at

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Speaker 2: all with her story before You read the script?

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Speaker 1: No, I wasn't. I got my first audition and I

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Speaker 1: had no idea what it was. So I did just

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Speaker 1: some basic Googling to find out, okay, so this is

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Speaker 1: a true story. What is it? And I got the basics,

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Speaker 1: did the audition, and then I went back and I

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Speaker 1: learned more. And then I got the callback after that.

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Speaker 1: And I found out there was like a book too,

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Speaker 1: which I was like, oh my God, this is fantastic. Right, right. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Did you read the book?

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Speaker 1: I was going to before we started filming, and then

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Speaker 1: I realized how different the script was to how the

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Speaker 1: actual story went. And I felt like it would add

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Speaker 1: too much pressure going into filming, especially considering how condensed

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Speaker 1: our filming schedule was to get everything done. I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to add more to it and get confused with

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Speaker 1: between the two stories.

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Speaker 2: Yes, right.

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Speaker 1: They're telling the same thing, but different details.

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Speaker 2: Right, right. So for people who aren't fully familiar with

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Speaker 2: the story, let's talk a little bit about what happened.

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Speaker 2: This is obviously a horrific crime. And she was Tanya.

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Speaker 2: Catch was 14 years old, came from a less than

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Speaker 2: stable background, and she was groomed by a security guard

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Speaker 2: at her school. By giving her gifts and making her

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Speaker 2: feel special and confusing her and telling her family nobody

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Speaker 2: really cares. And essentially, he gets her to come to

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Speaker 2: his home. And then he keeps her a prisoner in

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Speaker 2: his bedroom for 10 years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. He keeps her there for 10 very long years

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Speaker 1: where she cannot leave.

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Speaker 2: And so we should also say for the first four years,

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Speaker 2: she wasn't allowed to even leave the room. Like she

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Speaker 2: never left his bedroom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. She was trapped inside the bedroom for four years,

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Speaker 1: maybe five. And it was, that was it. That's all

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Speaker 1: she was allowed to see. She could look out the window.

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Speaker 1: She could walk around, but she had to be quiet

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Speaker 1: because he lived with his parents. His parents didn't know.

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Speaker 2: This is something that I find unnerving. the movie covers

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Speaker 2: it very well because when you read about this, you

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Speaker 2: think this is impossible. This man was living with his

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Speaker 2: parents and they didn't know. And then when we see

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Speaker 2: your character, when we see Tanya tiptoeing around the wood

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Speaker 2: floors and knowing kind of exactly where not to walk

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Speaker 2: so they will squeak and how clearly she was manipulated

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Speaker 2: into saying, this is how you survive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. It's knowing what the consequences are if a

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Speaker 1: mistake is made and the fear that surrounds that. So

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Speaker 1: you try your best not to like it's the way

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Speaker 1: she lived was horrific in that time. It was horrific.

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Speaker 1: And I can't even begin to imagine like even just

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Speaker 1: what I did for the scenes was a lot worse.

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Speaker 1: And we shot in that location for almost a week.

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Speaker 1: And it was a built set. And it was just

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Speaker 1: this enclosed little space that felt like our own little world.

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Speaker 1: And it was hard going back there every day. So

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine what she went through herself. Right. I

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Speaker 1: can't even comprehend it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's very difficult to comprehend. So did you have

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Speaker 2: an opportunity to meet Tanya herself or talk with her?

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Speaker 1: She never came to set. The first time I got

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Speaker 1: an introduction to her was after the movie had finished.

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Speaker 1: We did an interview with me and Robert, who was

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Speaker 1: my co-star for the movie, and Dania. And that was

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Speaker 1: my first time meeting her was over Zoom.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: How was that?

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Speaker 1: I was nervous because I hadn't seen the film yet.

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Speaker 1: She had. She had seen everything already. Oh, wow.

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Speaker 2: And I was nervous.

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Speaker 1: Nervous going into it because I didn't know what she

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Speaker 1: thought if what I'd done was enough. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: what I could have done differently, but I had no

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Speaker 1: idea how she would feel about the whole thing, watching

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Speaker 1: it back. But she was very kind and she was

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Speaker 1: very happy with what was put out there. So I,

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Speaker 1: I'm very grateful. Very grateful.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's the whole point. I, I know that

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth Smart was the executive producer for And I'm just

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Speaker 2: constantly in awe of her and what she has chosen

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Speaker 2: to do with her life post her own trauma and

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Speaker 2: being kidnapped and all of the abuse that she went through.

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Speaker 2: And so she had very specifically sought out Tanya to

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Speaker 2: tell her, you know, you need to tell this story.

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Speaker 2: And there's something that is so incredibly important and powerful

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Speaker 2: about that. I think from a healing standpoint and all

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Speaker 2: of it, I'm just really, I'm blown away by her.

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Speaker 2: one of the things that I really appreciate about this

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Speaker 2: film is that the way they handle the sexual violence

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Speaker 2: and any kind of physicality like that is with such

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Speaker 2: delicacy and care where we don't really see it. So

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Speaker 2: what we see is Tanya's experience when it's happening. And

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Speaker 2: I just, there's, it's a very powerful and very, um,

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Speaker 2: careful and thoughtful way to handle it and what was

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Speaker 2: what were the to that end were those scenes the

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Speaker 2: hardest to shoot or what was what was most difficult for.

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Speaker 1: You some of the most the most difficult one to

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Speaker 1: shoot was the first time for her where we're in

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Speaker 1: this person's house and that's where he took her.

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Speaker 2: Judy, so this, as a sidebar, let's cover that. There

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Speaker 2: was a hairdresser friend of his, Judy Sokol, which I

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Speaker 2: cannot wrap my head around how this woman supported him,

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Speaker 2: but she allowed him to take Tanya to her home

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Speaker 2: To have sex with her the first time. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It was, that was probably one of the most

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Speaker 1: brutal scenes to do was me sitting on the couch

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Speaker 1: with her and then having her leave me to him.

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Speaker 1: And it was not an easy film. It was not

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Speaker 1: an easy scene to film. It was very hard. to

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Speaker 1: get through it was a closed set thankfully and we

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Speaker 1: had run through it so we knew exactly what our

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Speaker 1: moves were going to be and Robert was such an

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Speaker 1: incredibly is such an incredibly kind man and he was

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Speaker 1: so easy to work with and he made those scenes

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Speaker 1: easier than they could have been otherwise yeah that's good

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Speaker 1: to hear yeah cause um him coming in that way

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Speaker 1: and then her leaving and then him crawling on top

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Speaker 1: of me was not like having that headspace and knowing

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Speaker 1: that we were shooting the scene and after like the

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Speaker 1: next morning scene directly after it was a lot.

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Speaker 2: I found that scene in particular. So, so difficult to watch.

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Speaker 2: And for all of the reasons that you just said,

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Speaker 2: and that moment of a young, a child having to

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Speaker 2: metabolize these things that she should never have to and

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Speaker 2: kind of try to understand who, like, this woman seems

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Speaker 2: to be saying it's okay, so am I supposed to

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Speaker 2: feel this is okay? And then, wait, are you leaving?

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Speaker 2: But then would you want her to stay? The whole

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Speaker 2: thing is so complex and so wrong, and it really

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Speaker 2: just shows how you can take the vulnerability of a

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Speaker 2: young girl like that, and that's how it's exploited. It's very,

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Speaker 2: very strong. And so Tanya has said publicly, Jordan got

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Speaker 2: me down pat. I mean, that's a pretty, you can't

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Speaker 2: really ask for more praise than that. No. So, I mean,

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Speaker 2: it really is sort of like why, you know, why

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Speaker 2: we do these things. And so Elizabeth Smart, she is

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Speaker 2: another survivor, as we talked about, whose story has been

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Speaker 2: told publicly. And did her involvement in the project influence

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Speaker 2: the way you approached it at all?

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Speaker 1: Well, I would have taken it seriously either way, just

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Speaker 1: because it's a true story. It's about someone. You want

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Speaker 1: to make them proud. But knowing that she was involved, it...

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Speaker 1: It made me trust how they were going to portray

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Speaker 1: everything so much more. Her involvement meant that this was

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Speaker 1: going to be true to the story. It was going

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Speaker 1: to be what Tanya wanted. It wasn't going to be

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Speaker 1: manipulated by outside parties. If she was there, this was safe.

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Speaker 1: This was going to be good because of her involvement.

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Speaker 2: Right, right. You can have a long... successful, beautiful career

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Speaker 2: and not get an experience like that that's meaningful in

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Speaker 2: this way. I just think it's really, really extraordinary. So

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Speaker 2: another thing that this movie does so well is show

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Speaker 2: that grooming is something that's gradual. It's not dramatic. It's

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Speaker 2: not like someone snatches you out of the woods and

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Speaker 2: you are changed. It's so And Tanya herself says that

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Speaker 2: she didn't even realize that she was being manipulated at

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Speaker 2: the time and at first. Do you think that Tom

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Speaker 2: could tell right away, oh, this is a person who's

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Speaker 2: ripe for manipulation?

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Speaker 1: I don't think anyone makes snap judgments on anyone right away.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a gradual, especially people who hunt others,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, because he was looking for someone.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

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Speaker 1: And when you're in the position he is where you

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Speaker 1: get to watch kids, you get to be around them.

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Speaker 1: You have permission to be there and to talk to

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Speaker 1: them all the time. You can see when someone's isolated,

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Speaker 1: you can understand that you can see the pattern and

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Speaker 1: you can know that they're vulnerable. He was in the

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Speaker 1: perfect position to do what he did. And there was

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Speaker 1: no checks on it and there should have been, but

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Speaker 1: there wasn't, which is, horrific. I don't believe it was

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Speaker 1: an instantaneous, I'm choosing you. I believe he saw a pattern,

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Speaker 1: he saw an in, and he went for it. And

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Speaker 1: that will never not be horrifying. Oh, God. It won't.

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Speaker 2: And to your point, that was left unchecked, which is

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Speaker 2: on so many levels, we Humans, we are all imperfect,

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Speaker 2: as is the justice system and everything. However, we see

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Speaker 2: somewhat consistently these real failures of people in positions of power.

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Speaker 2: And in this case, the school, the guidance counselor, the

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Speaker 2: people who hired him, the police going to his house

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Speaker 2: and then saying, well, okay, he told us his parents

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Speaker 2: are sleeping. I guess we don't have to check his home.

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Speaker 1: Yep. Yep. They see things and they assume it's the

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Speaker 1: whole story and they don't look deeper despite things feeling off.

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Speaker 1: It's not following your intuition and it's trusting things at

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Speaker 1: face value and that shouldn't be a thing. There should

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Speaker 1: be checks in place so you can't do that.

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Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. To control Tanya, he uses a mixture of things,

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Speaker 2: nice gestures, bringing her treats and things like that, or

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Speaker 2: gifts even, and then telling her that she's stupid, that

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Speaker 2: no one cares about her, and nobody's looking for her.

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Speaker 2: Did you learn anything new about grooming that you weren't

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Speaker 2: aware of before making this movie?

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Speaker 1: I had done quite a bit of research into grooming

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Speaker 1: for this. I find that grooming looks different depending on

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Speaker 1: who you're doing. I don't even know how to put this,

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Speaker 1: to be completely honest. Grooming is looking at a person,

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Speaker 1: looking at a child, finding out what they need and

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Speaker 1: catering to it. It's not always gifts. It's not always

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Speaker 1: being a shoulder to cry on. It's giving them what

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Speaker 1: they believe they need in that moment so they become

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Speaker 1: dependent on you, whatever that may or may not be.

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Speaker 1: You want them dependent, whether that's for your love, for

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Speaker 1: your protection, for anything.

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Speaker 2: That's a great way of putting it. And then a

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Speaker 2: really succinct and important piece of it, right? Cause it

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Speaker 2: isn't just, you know, I just, my daughter's 14. So

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Speaker 2: these things that are related to teen it's, you know,

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Speaker 2: has sort of extra weight for me. And she asked

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Speaker 2: me like, who am I interviewing today? And what am

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Speaker 2: I doing? And I, I told her the story, and

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Speaker 2: I told her the whole story as, you know, kind

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Speaker 2: of cleanly as I could, but saying, this is how

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Speaker 2: this girl got to this place. And I could see

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Speaker 2: in her head when I'm saying she was groomed to

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Speaker 2: have these things happen. And I could see in her mind,

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Speaker 2: she's like, hey, this is, you know, at the outset,

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Speaker 2: she's saying, well, I want to see a picture of

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Speaker 2: this man to see if I would ever. And she's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: he looks creepy. He looks this. And I said, well—

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Speaker 2: maybe in these photos, but the circumstances are really. And

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Speaker 2: so we talked about just that, that vulnerability, essentially what

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Speaker 2: you just said, but I didn't put it into those

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Speaker 2: specific words. Like that is exactly what I should have

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Speaker 2: said to her. You know, it isn't just someone buying you.

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Speaker 2: And she said, well, somebody who's who I already know,

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Speaker 2: like a grownup that I already know it's different if

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Speaker 2: they're doing those things. And I'm like, okay, wait a second.

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Speaker 2: If they're giving you a gift without my knowledge, that's strange.

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Speaker 2: So I had to get really specific about it because

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Speaker 2: it isn't so simple. It isn't so simple.

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Speaker 1: It's never simple. People aren't simple. If you're going to

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Speaker 1: manipulate someone into doing something, you have to know what

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Speaker 1: they need. You have to know what they're missing. And

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Speaker 1: he found it. Yep. So Tom....

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Speaker 2: It's so hard to talk about these things, but it's important.

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Speaker 2: He repeatedly sexually assaulted Tanya, beginning when she was 14,

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Speaker 2: and he made her journal about the experiences. And I

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Speaker 2: think the film very successfully gets across the horror of

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Speaker 2: those moments. And again, with being exploitative which is a

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Speaker 2: very tall order in a narrative film so the idea

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Speaker 2: of did you ever did you actually write in those

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Speaker 2: journals yourself for example did you use any of that

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Speaker 2: or was that particularly disturbing to you.

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Speaker 1: That is not something I wanted to do or had

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Speaker 1: any desire to do, to be completely honest. Adding that

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Speaker 1: to my day, I think would have made it that

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Speaker 1: much harder to go to sleep that night.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I will put myself in her shoes. I need

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Speaker 1: a place to go outside of that. Between takes, between setups,

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Speaker 1: between steps. I need to be myself again because I

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Speaker 1: can't live there. If I live there, it's going to

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Speaker 1: mentally deteriorate me way too fast and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be burnt out for the next year. So I drew

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Speaker 1: a line and went, no, I'm not going to do

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Speaker 1: this to myself. I'm not going to spend my in-between

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Speaker 1: time writing in these journals. It didn't feel like the

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Speaker 1: right call. I could have if I'd asked props and

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Speaker 1: I just decided to leave it alone, let them do

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Speaker 1: their thing. And just look at the journals and know

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Speaker 1: how horrific it is that this is how many she

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Speaker 1: would have had.

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Speaker 2: There is a really, again, just showing that the stack

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Speaker 2: in the movie, the stack of the journals and then

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Speaker 2: it growing as a passage of time. And you get

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Speaker 2: exactly that. Because it's so impossible for us, people who

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Speaker 2: have not gone through these things, to really kind of

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Speaker 2: understand that. time in that regard, you know, and it's,

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Speaker 2: it's something that's really when it's done well, which I

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Speaker 2: feel that it is in this movie, it really achieved

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Speaker 2: something important that helps us as viewers understand the impact

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Speaker 2: of these things, you know, it does a really good

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Speaker 2: job of that.

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Speaker 1: I agree. They're very hard to show how long she'd

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Speaker 1: been there.

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Speaker 2: And how then, then that's how the mind gets, you know,

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Speaker 2: when people, the, the, Her dad, I had read later,

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Speaker 2: had said he felt like it was partly her fault

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Speaker 2: or something. You know, all these sorts of things are

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Speaker 2: so ludicrous, they make me want to scream running in

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Speaker 2: the street.

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Speaker 1: She was a child. It was not her fault. Be

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Speaker 1: a better parent.

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Speaker 2: Ding, ding, ding, ding.

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Speaker 1: That's all I got. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: I could not agree more. I could not agree more.

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Speaker 2: I just, yep, I could not agree more. so the

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Speaker 2: film also shows really the extraordinary resilience of Tanya and

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Speaker 2: it almost makes her it's like this is like a

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Speaker 2: superhuman task and what do you think finally gave her

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Speaker 2: the strength to take that risk to actually reveal her

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Speaker 2: identity to the shopkeeper Joseph Sparico.

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Speaker 1: Yeah me and me and the director had a conversation

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Speaker 1: before we shot that scene. It was pretty early on

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Speaker 1: in filming that we did it too. And we talked

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Speaker 1: about the scene leading up to it, the scenes leading

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Speaker 1: up to it. And the implication for both of us

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Speaker 1: was that this is it. Tom is going to kill me.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to die. I have nothing left to lose anymore.

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Speaker 1: My life is all that I have. If I'm going

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Speaker 1: to die, I'm going to die trying to get my

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Speaker 1: life back, trying to get my freedom, trying to build

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Speaker 1: something for myself for once. That was what we were

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Speaker 1: doing going into that scene. There was nothing left anymore.

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Speaker 1: No other way around it. And this is the only

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Speaker 1: person I have outside of Tom. So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: go there and I'm going to try. And that's what

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Speaker 1: she did. And she tried. And she succeeded. She got

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Speaker 1: someone to listen. She got someone to do something. She

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Speaker 1: got an adult to do something and help her. Right.

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Speaker 2: And she saw an example of a healthy adult in

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Speaker 2: a relationship with another healthy adult and then was able

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Speaker 2: to say, oh, or realize this is not my situation.

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Speaker 2: You know, this feels different and then be able to

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Speaker 2: listen to herself. It's amazing. It's also so, it's a

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Speaker 2: beautiful thing that, you know, reveals how she, when the

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Speaker 2: kindness of strangers, like at the risk of sounding so trite,

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Speaker 2: it really is. Like we never know how we are

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Speaker 2: going to impact another person just by caring and being kind.

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Speaker 1: Agreed. She got more unconditional care from those two people

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Speaker 1: than she had in a very long time and they

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Speaker 1: didn't ask for anything in return. They didn't have expectations

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Speaker 1: of her. That isn't something she knew how to deal

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Speaker 1: with a, or had ever experienced. So all of a

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Speaker 1: sudden having that is terrifying and beautiful and lovely. And

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Speaker 1: then going back there to Tom and having that and

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Speaker 1: knowing it's completely incorrect and, And just having that slowly

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Speaker 1: sink in of this isn't normal. This isn't okay. I'm

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Speaker 1: allowed to not be okay here. I can go to them.

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Speaker 1: I can trust them. This is safe. This is what

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Speaker 1: safety feels like. Yeah. Learning what that felt like for

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Speaker 1: the first time before she left was such an important

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Speaker 1: step to her leaving in the first place. Right.

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Speaker 2: What do you hope that young people and parents will

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Speaker 2: take away after watching this story?

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Speaker 1: Well, it's about caution. It's about, yes, sometimes a stranger's

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Speaker 1: kindness is just kindness. And sometimes it's really not. But

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Speaker 1: if you ever feel like you shouldn't tell an adult

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Speaker 1: that another adult is doing something, that's an issue. That's

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Speaker 1: when you go to the people you trust, the people

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Speaker 1: you care about, whether it's your friends that are your

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Speaker 1: own age, or whether it's an aunt, an uncle, a parent,

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Speaker 1: a sibling, it doesn't matter. You just have to tell someone.

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Speaker 1: That's all. Tell them because then it's not just you.

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Speaker 1: It's not just you paying attention. It's not just you looking.

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Speaker 1: So if something is wrong, there are more eyes on

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Speaker 1: it than just yours.

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Speaker 2: Right. Well, Jordan, it was such a pleasure meeting you.

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Speaker 2: You're so articulate and you do beautiful work in this

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Speaker 2: movie and Thank you so much for talking with me today.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It was really, really lovely to

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Speaker 1: meet you, and have fun with Robert. I will. Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Be sure to join me next time when I'll be

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Speaker 2: talking with Robert Baker, who portrays Tom Hose. We'll explore

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Speaker 2: the psychology behind one of the most disturbing aspects of

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Speaker 2: this case, how an ordinary-looking school security guard was able

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Speaker 2: to manipulate and psychologically control a teenage girl for nearly

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Speaker 2: a decade.