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Speaker 1: Okay, welcome back to the podcast that this is, which

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Speaker 1: is not the podcast that this isn't um, which is

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Speaker 1: to say that this is behind the bastards family. Was that?

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Speaker 1: Come on? Come on? I was being very specific, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: Love of God, you're talking about the worst people in

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Speaker 1: all of history. Okay, that's what we do. That's our

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Speaker 1: that's our milieu is the worst people bad, yes, and

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Speaker 1: one of the and one. Sometimes those are bad people.

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Speaker 1: There's dead babies. We always have this wonderful lady on

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Speaker 1: Sophia Alexandria is here today to talk with us about

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Speaker 1: some dead babies. Well, Robert, what did I say? I said,

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Speaker 1: stop only inviting me to dead baby things? Can you

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Speaker 1: break it up with some adult murder every once in

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Speaker 1: a while? I mean, yeah, there was some adult murder

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Speaker 1: in the last one. Come on, remember that doesn't count

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Speaker 1: of Part two. Is baby murder that neiggates Part one?

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Speaker 1: I don't know that it is. I think it just

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Speaker 1: makes for more murdered people. I think that we do

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Speaker 1: one baby murder episode, we do one other people murder episode,

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Speaker 1: and that is a healthy balance for our relationship, you

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Speaker 1: know what. I respect that and I accept it. Okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, well, good, See this is why communication is

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Speaker 1: so critical. I'm hugging you through the zoom. Thank you

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Speaker 1: so much, Sophie. I'm hugging you to talk. Yeah, oh yes,

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Speaker 1: right for having me. You're welcome your will. So this

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Speaker 1: is part two of our episode you know about Nazis

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Speaker 1: and stuff? Right, actually introduced me, you fool? Okay, I did.

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Speaker 1: I could said you're Sophia Alexandria, who we talked about. Well,

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Speaker 1: you're also a comedian a podcast. First of all, pronounced

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Speaker 1: her last name, right, Sophia Alexandria. Nope, what Alexandra? Sorry?

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Speaker 1: What fucking I was thinking about princesses. Um. I have

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Speaker 1: literally hundreds of hours with you. I know I was

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Speaker 1: thinking of princesses. I too think of royalty when I

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Speaker 1: think of Sophia, but I know how to pronounce her

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Speaker 1: last name. Yes, you're so good at making him look

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Speaker 1: like shit. This is an episode about Nazis, and I'm

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Speaker 1: looking worse than the Nazis right now, not worse than

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Speaker 1: not after this episode. I'm not Jesus what with all

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Speaker 1: the baby killing? All right, let's let's all right. So,

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Speaker 1: you know, when one of the nice things Sophia about

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Speaker 1: studying the old Nazis as opposed to studying today's fascists

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Speaker 1: is that we we we do know how things ended

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Speaker 1: with the old ones, right, Like you know, they don't

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Speaker 1: win in the end, um, And we're all we don't

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Speaker 1: know at about our fascists, right, We're all still living

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Speaker 1: through this. And there's a there's a there's a pretty

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Speaker 1: good chance they'll wind up, they'll wind up taking home

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Speaker 1: the trophy, you know. Um, Yeah, I do believe in us,

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Speaker 1: but it's certainly the game is not the game is

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Speaker 1: not ended. Um. The game is certainly still afoot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And I think we all have to get used to

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Speaker 1: the idea. Like one of the frustrating things I think

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Speaker 1: there's this, like, especially if you have friends and family

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Speaker 1: members who kind of went went Trump and have been

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Speaker 1: getting increasingly at least far right, if not explicitly fashy

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Speaker 1: over the last few years, is that like you want

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Speaker 1: some sort of emotional closure where they're like, I fucked up,

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Speaker 1: I was wrong, Like I I made a bad call.

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Speaker 1: It's never gonna happen. It's never going to happen. Um.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I think is most

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Speaker 1: interesting about Meyer's book, they thought they were free. Is

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Speaker 1: that he talks to like former Nazis about that. These

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Speaker 1: guys are You would think if anyone can be like, ah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was the wrong horse to bag, it would be

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Speaker 1: guys living in Germany in like nineteen but like, no,

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Speaker 1: like they don't. Like even those people weren't like, oh

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Speaker 1: you know what, this was a bad call. My kids

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Speaker 1: are dead in my house, got burned down in a

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Speaker 1: bombing raid. Probably voted for the wrong guy. That's not

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Speaker 1: what I want. I'm sure there was some unfortunate mistakes,

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Speaker 1: but overall it's been a pretty good couple of years.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what they said. It's it's amazing these guys,

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Speaker 1: these little Nazis. And again, these are not the guys

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Speaker 1: who got rich under Nazism, Like these are not the

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Speaker 1: Venti Nazis. They're just merely tall yeah yeah, yeah, tall,

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Speaker 1: which again in Starbucks and Nazi terminology means short. Um.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's it's it's fascinating. Rather than turning against Hitler,

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Speaker 1: these little Nazis, the guys that Meyer you befriended, they

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Speaker 1: looked back on the Nazi time and power as like

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Speaker 1: a golden age, and they blamed the Fewer's failures on

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Speaker 1: everyone but him. Only one of Meyer's ten friends was

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Speaker 1: actually willing to condemn large aspects of the Nazi system.

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Speaker 1: As for the others. Quote, the other nine decent, hard working,

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Speaker 1: ordinarily intelligent and honest men did not know before nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty three that Nazism was evil. They did not know

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Speaker 1: between nineteen thirty three and forty five that it was evil,

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Speaker 1: and they do not know it now. None of them

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Speaker 1: ever knew or knows now Nazism as we knew it

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Speaker 1: and know it, and they lived under it, served it,

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Speaker 1: and indeed made it. These nine ordinary Germans knew it

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Speaker 1: absolutely otherwise, and they still know it otherwise. If our

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Speaker 1: view of national socialism is a little simple, so as

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Speaker 1: there's an autocracy, yes, of course, an autocracy as in

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Speaker 1: the fable days of the golden time our parents knew,

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Speaker 1: but a tyranny, as you Americans use the term nonsense.

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Speaker 1: When I asked Tara Wedtkin to the Baker why he

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Speaker 1: had believed in national socialism, he said, because it promised

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Speaker 1: to solve the unemployment problem. And it did, But I

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Speaker 1: never imagined what it would lead to. Nobody did. I

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Speaker 1: thought I had struck pay dirt and I said, what

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Speaker 1: do you mean, what it would lead to war? He said,

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Speaker 1: nobody ever imagined that it would lead to war. And

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. When they talk about what it led to,

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Speaker 1: they're not talking about the Holocaust. They're not talking about

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Speaker 1: the deportations, they're not talking about the murder of of

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Speaker 1: the Roma, they're not talking about the murder of you know,

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Speaker 1: Hitler's political enemies. They're talking about the thing that fucked

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Speaker 1: them up personally. That's what they didn't realize it would

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Speaker 1: lead to. But you know what, that baker has the

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Speaker 1: kind of vibes where he would not bake a cake

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Speaker 1: for a gay couple. Definitely not. And hearing reading that

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Speaker 1: quote reminds me of the perennially relevant tweet by Adrian Bought.

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Speaker 1: I never thought leopards would eat my face, sobs woman

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Speaker 1: who voted for the leopards eating people's faces party. But

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Speaker 1: like it also reminds me of a Simpsons line. Um, sure,

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Speaker 1: Nazis have made some mistakes in the past, but that's

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Speaker 1: why pencils have a raisers. Yeah, it's it's It's very funny.

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Speaker 1: I think though, if we actually want to understand what

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Speaker 1: happened Nazi Germany and understand our own times better. As

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Speaker 1: a result, we do have to understand that, like when

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Speaker 1: these little Nazis say they had no way of knowing

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Speaker 1: that that Hitler was going to lead Germany into a war,

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Speaker 1: they're not lying. It seems like like, obviously, how could

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Speaker 1: you not know? German? Hitler wanted war um but a

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Speaker 1: lot of his early appeal to the little Nazis was

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Speaker 1: the fact that he was a wounded war veteran and

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Speaker 1: that he'd been a private right, that he had been

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Speaker 1: a very low ranking war veteran. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things you would say is that like, of course I

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Speaker 1: don't want war. I know better than anybody how bad

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Speaker 1: war is. I've been in the middle of one. Why

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Speaker 1: would I want something like that? Like that was that

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Speaker 1: was one of the lines that he took. Now, it

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Speaker 1: was transparent nonsense, and it was obvious to people at

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Speaker 1: the time who really who were intelligent, who paid attention, Like,

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Speaker 1: for example, have you heard that Hitler was a Nobel

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Speaker 1: Prize nominee. That's like a thing people talk about, right,

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Speaker 1: that's pretty well known asn't are you? I'm sorry, I

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Speaker 1: don't know if it was rhetorical or no, No, he was, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that that's the thing that gets brought up from

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Speaker 1: time to time that he was nominated for the Nobel Prize.

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Speaker 1: You were doing a thing where you're like, so we

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Speaker 1: all know this, right, And then I was waiting for you,

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Speaker 1: I thought, and then you were just waiting for me

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Speaker 1: to say something, and I was like, did you know that?

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Speaker 1: On the same page, I thought that was yeah. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that it's something that people talk about as

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Speaker 1: much as in being a vegetarian or whatever. I read

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Speaker 1: a lot of Hitler, so I'm I'm I'm probably off

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Speaker 1: on what's common knowledge. So you're a big Hitler head.

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Speaker 1: We all know that he was a hitstand. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: was nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize, but the nomination

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Speaker 1: was a joke. It was a satire by a Swedish

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Speaker 1: anti fascist politician who was like being like, like, it's

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Speaker 1: absurd because this guy clearly wants to pull the world

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Speaker 1: into war. So obviously, like a lot of people who

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Speaker 1: anyone who paid attention and who was modestly intelligent, knew

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Speaker 1: what Hitler was going to do. I'm not saying that

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Speaker 1: like it was hidden in any real way, but it

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Speaker 1: was hidden to these little Nazis, not because like Hitler,

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Speaker 1: obscured it particularly well, but because the only media they

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Speaker 1: paid attention to was essentially a like either completely idiotic

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Speaker 1: or complete propaganda. They lived in a media bubble, right um,

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Speaker 1: And that we we see that today. As Meyer wrote, quote, remember,

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Speaker 1: none of these nine Germans had ever traveled abroad. None

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Speaker 1: of them had ever known or talked with a foreigner,

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Speaker 1: or read the foreign press. None ever wanted to listen

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Speaker 1: to the foreign radio when it was legal to do so. None,

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Speaker 1: except oddly enough, the policeman, listened to it when it

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Speaker 1: was illegal. They were as uninterested in the outside world

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Speaker 1: as their contemporaries in France or America. And you know,

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Speaker 1: Meyer gets it right. You can see reading this book.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't talk a lot about American fascism, but you

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Speaker 1: can see in the way he writes the book like

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Speaker 1: he knew we were vulnerable too, like because these people

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Speaker 1: are everywhere. Yeah. I don't know how you feeling, Sophia,

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Speaker 1: Just you know, positive waiting for the babies to get here,

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Speaker 1: to come on, and then to leave immediately, and to

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Speaker 1: leave a pair of shoes behind. Baby shoes Comma never worn. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: baby shoes. See myself out. Thank you for the hemmingway.

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Speaker 1: I've always said you're the hemming way of this podcast,

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Speaker 1: mainly because of the amount of time you spend shirtless

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Speaker 1: firing a shotgun. I mean, people gotta get a load

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Speaker 1: of these ditties. I always say, yeah, yeah, that's the

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Speaker 1: that's the jacket quote for hills like white elephants. People

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Speaker 1: got to get to look at these ditties. So that

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Speaker 1: is also the tagline for my titties. A lot of similarities.

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Speaker 1: You also spent a period of time in Havana. If

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Speaker 1: I'm not mistaken, my titties are there right now. So yeah.

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Speaker 1: Meyer points out that like for his Nazi friends who

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Speaker 1: lived in small towns and away from like a lot

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Speaker 1: of where a lot of the violence the Nazis did occurred,

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Speaker 1: like the negative things the Nazis did, the negative press

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Speaker 1: about them was drowned out by things like the Strength

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Speaker 1: through Joy program, which enabled working Germans to visit places

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Speaker 1: like Norway in Spain at very little cost. These little

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Speaker 1: Nazis and those like them were concerned with the economy,

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Speaker 1: and again that meant not starving in those days, and

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Speaker 1: a lot of that appeared to get better under Hitler.

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Speaker 1: Some of this was a losory, and a great deal

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Speaker 1: of it was driven by what's called arianization, which is

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Speaker 1: the process of stealing Jewish businesses and property and giving

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Speaker 1: them to Germans, to arian Germans. Um. But Myer's friends

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Speaker 1: felt is like a really clean name for that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is. And there's a there's a very good movie

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Speaker 1: about it, all called that was made in the Soviet

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Speaker 1: Union and like the sixties called The Shop on Main Street.

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Speaker 1: That's about like one like Russian peasant in an occupied village, um,

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Speaker 1: who has given this old Jewish woman's uh. I think

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Speaker 1: it's like a it sells like button and sewing equipment shop, um,

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Speaker 1: and she and he become friend and it's it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's a very It's an interesting movie because like all

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Speaker 1: of the people acting in it were like peasants on

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Speaker 1: the Russian steps when the Germans invaded, and they lived

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Speaker 1: in villages that the Nazis took over and then like

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Speaker 1: turned like a lot of them turned in their their

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Speaker 1: own Jews. So like the actors aren't like just acting,

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Speaker 1: they're like remembering. It's a fascinating film. I really recommend it.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to see it. Yeah, it's a it's a

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Speaker 1: very very good movie in a very I mean very

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Speaker 1: dark movie because it's about Russia and World War Two.

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, what do you mean. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of sounded like a lighthearted romp to me. Yeah, compared

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Speaker 1: to talk about actually in part one and you knew

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Speaker 1: a name of an actor, I was like, of course

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Speaker 1: you grant. Yeah. I was just impressed by your just

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Speaker 1: putting Yeah, is he what? Yeah, he's in and he

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Speaker 1: plays in the pame Minister of England or something. Right,

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Speaker 1: he's the sketchy politician. Yeah, he's the one that makes

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Speaker 1: an insane number of like body shaming fat jokes during it.

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Speaker 1: I don't remember up, but the only thing I remember

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Speaker 1: is that Liam Neeson is in it. Um woman that's

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Speaker 1: a supermodel, but not a supermodel, Like she's not supposed

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Speaker 1: to be a supermodel, but she is. In the joke

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Speaker 1: he just keeps talking about how, oh, like the only

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Speaker 1: person I'd marry is Claudia Schiffer or whatever the fuck,

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Speaker 1: And then this Claudia Schiffer shows up. You know what,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. That's not a good retelling of the movie,

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Speaker 1: but it's partially true. But you know what, ties that

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Speaker 1: back into our our episode. How are you going to do? Impressed? Well,

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Speaker 1: you were, you were. You were just telling me that

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Speaker 1: Liam Neeson is in love actually because of when love

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Speaker 1: actually was made. We're talking about we're talking about what's

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Speaker 1: that Holocaust movie with the red dress? Liam Neeson? Bam

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Speaker 1: back to We're back to World War two. Perfect degrees

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Speaker 1: of Hitler. Yeah, well that's amazing, son of a bitch.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know, I know, you know, I'm only

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Speaker 1: three degrees away from him. I mean like like genetically

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Speaker 1: or no, no, no, just in terms of like direct handshakes. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: hands with I shook hands with a guy who at

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Speaker 1: age eight, like the Nazis came to power, and he

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Speaker 1: was a member of the Hitler Youth and they did

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Speaker 1: a lot of meeting like meet and greet gathering stuff

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Speaker 1: with Nazi hy brass. And he shook Herman Garring's hand.

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Speaker 1: Uh and obviously Herman Gerring by obviously by Nazi transitive property,

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Speaker 1: you have shaken Hitler's hand. I basically shook Hitler's hand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's what we're talking about. Yeah. The thing that's

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Speaker 1: crazier about it to me is that that dude's grandpa

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Speaker 1: had fought with a sword on horseback as a cavalryman,

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Speaker 1: and like that that it's that recently that people were

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Speaker 1: doing that. Like, yeah, this dude fought in the eighteen

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Speaker 1: seventy one with like a fucking sword on horseback, and

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Speaker 1: I like shook hands with his grandson. And as advanced

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Speaker 1: as we are, we're that close to like people stabbing

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Speaker 1: each other while riding horses. It's wild, right, is that

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Speaker 1: when you got into machetes. No, I've always been in machetes,

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Speaker 1: so um, yeah, yeah, Sorry, we got off on a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a tangent here um, but kind of

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about. Most of this is for you,

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Speaker 1: but a little bit of this is for me. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: it can't be just Hitler, Hitler, Hitler of the time.

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Speaker 1: Give me two of Hitler related, Hitler adjacent and yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a lot of Hitler adjacent little Nazis here.

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Speaker 1: And and these folks were able to kind of get

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Speaker 1: on board because they were, you know, distracted by a

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Speaker 1: lot of the benefits of Nazis and they didn't see

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Speaker 1: they didn't go looking for the ugly stuff, even though

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Speaker 1: they knew some of it was there um because the

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Speaker 1: stuff that was positive was like way more in their

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Speaker 1: face is and that's really all they cared about. And

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Speaker 1: that's why even the the Nazis never had an electoral majority,

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Speaker 1: almost every German got on board with Nazism, even if

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Speaker 1: they didn't join the party during the years in which

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Speaker 1: Hitler was succeeding, right, because people back a winner um,

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Speaker 1: And that's what gets it. That's what scares me most

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Speaker 1: about imagining the United States sliding into fascism. And it's

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Speaker 1: not it's not the midnight raids, the abduction and execution

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Speaker 1: of dissidents, the slow clamped down and in resistance. It's

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Speaker 1: the idea that most Americans that like people I know

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Speaker 1: and am friendly with, would find ways to pretend none

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Speaker 1: of it was happening, while like people I love and

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Speaker 1: maybe me are disappearing and being murdered. That's the scariest

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Speaker 1: thing about it, right like that is so much more

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Speaker 1: frightening than imagining, than thinking about the actual fascists doing

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Speaker 1: the killing. It's like the people that I've I've hung

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Speaker 1: out and played video games with, like turning and turning

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Speaker 1: away while it happened. Anyway, I'm gonna read another quote

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Speaker 1: from Meyer's book that's exactly on this topic. None of

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Speaker 1: the horror impinged upon the day to day lives of

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Speaker 1: my ten friends or was ever called to their attention.

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Speaker 1: There was some sort of trouble on the streets as

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Speaker 1: one or another of my friends was passing by on

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Speaker 1: a couple of occasions, but the police dispersed the crowd,

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Speaker 1: and there was nothing in the local paper. You and

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Speaker 1: I leave some sort of trouble on the streets to

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Speaker 1: the police, so did my friends. And it's the police

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Speaker 1: who are disappearing the Jews in this period, right, that's

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Speaker 1: what's happening, along with all the political dissidents. Um and

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Speaker 1: Meyer actually presented his friends with an article from their

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Speaker 1: local newspaper from back in nineteen thirty eight about a

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Speaker 1: group of local Jews who were taken into protective custody

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Speaker 1: by the police, and Maya writes, none of them, including

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Speaker 1: the teacher, the anti Nazi teacher, remembered ever having seen

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Speaker 1: it or anything like it. And maybe they're lying. Maybe

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Speaker 1: that's just our brains are that good, And when we're

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Speaker 1: really hate reality, closing it out, if we're able to

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Speaker 1: escape it, if we're safe enough to escape reality. I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, people's memories of events are so unreliable,

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Speaker 1: incredibly so in general, um much less when you like

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Speaker 1: really want to forget that you were a Nazi, yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: or or just don't want to remember that you what

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Speaker 1: being a Nazi exact exactly, exactly exactly now, The cold,

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Speaker 1: hard reality is that most of the Germans who lived

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Speaker 1: in the Third Reich knew what was being done to

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Speaker 1: the Jews. Not every detail, for sure, but like they

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Speaker 1: knew enough. Right, the gas chambers, the death camps were

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Speaker 1: tremendously widely known, but the fact that the Jews were

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Speaker 1: being disappeared and that something terrible was happening, you were

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Speaker 1: everyone was aware. This has not been kind of historical

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Speaker 1: consensus for long. In two thousand one, Robert Professor Robert Gladley,

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Speaker 1: who we we quoted from earlier, conducted a massive survey

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Speaker 1: of German mainstream media newspapers and magazines from nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: three on. And he started down this path of research

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Speaker 1: when he was looking through old German papers and he

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Speaker 1: found report of a woman who had been sent to

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Speaker 1: the Gestapo for looking Jewish and having sex with a neighbor.

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Speaker 1: Now at the time and this is like the late

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Speaker 1: nineteen nineties. When he came across this article, conventional academic

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Speaker 1: wisdom held that the majority of Nazi atrocities had happened

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Speaker 1: without the knowledge of most Germans, gladially noted for decades

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Speaker 1: my generation had been told that so much of the

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Speaker 1: terror had been carried out in complete secrecy. So coming

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Speaker 1: up upon that report openly in a major German newspaper

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Speaker 1: made him wonder if this was true, and so he

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Speaker 1: decided to look into the matter, and then the way

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Speaker 1: that academics do, very very in a very like methodical way,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna quote now from a Guardian rite up

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Speaker 1: on the study he conducted. As a result of this,

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Speaker 1: his media troll with a research assistant, found that as

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Speaker 1: early as nineteen thirty three, local papers reported the killing

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Speaker 1: of twelve prisoners by guards at Dakau, the first to

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Speaker 1: be set up as a model concentration camp initially for communists.

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Speaker 1: On May, the dekaur Zeitung, which is the Dacow newspaper,

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Speaker 1: said that the camp was Germany's most famous place and

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Speaker 1: wrought new hope to the decou business world, which obviously

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Speaker 1: there's a town also next to the camp By nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty four, the main and widely read Nazi owned paper

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Speaker 1: Vocashabao Bacter was reporting on a widening of policy to

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Speaker 1: other political criminals, including Jews accused of race defilement. By

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six, communist prisoners were no longer mentioned in

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Speaker 1: a photo essay, and the s S paper Dash Schwartz Corp.

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Speaker 1: The Dark Core emphasized the camps has places for people

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Speaker 1: for race to filers, rapists, sexual degenerates, and habitual criminals.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting to me that that's how they're That's how

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Speaker 1: the Nazis spun the concentration camps first not as a

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Speaker 1: place for Jews in specific, but as a place for

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Speaker 1: race to filer's, rapists, sexual de degenerates, and habitual criminals

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Speaker 1: um and that process continued through the years of the

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Speaker 1: regime short life. In nineteen thirty seven, Heinrich Heimbler made

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Speaker 1: public announcements that still more camps would be needed for

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Speaker 1: those with hydrocephalis, cross eyed, deformed, half Jews, and a

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Speaker 1: whole series of racially inferior year types. In nineteen thirty eight,

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Speaker 1: after Christal knoch Gebel's made a widely purported public announcement

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Speaker 1: that the final answer to the Jewish problem would occur

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Speaker 1: via government decree. So far from being unaware of the Holocaust,

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Speaker 1: the little Germans were well informed about a lot what

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Speaker 1: was going on. They knew their government was looking to

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Speaker 1: a final answer to the Jewish question, and they knew

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Speaker 1: what that meant more or less. So, Yeah, not only

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Speaker 1: were the Nazi atrocities well known as they occurred, but

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Speaker 1: the desire of little Nazis to pretend ignorance at the

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Speaker 1: crimes that were enabling was also really obvious to outside

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Speaker 1: and inside observers at the time. There's a quote that

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Speaker 1: I think is really useful from Peter Viereck, who was

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Speaker 1: a German American scholar, and he wrote this in nineteen forty,

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Speaker 1: well publicized among Germans already before Hitler came to power,

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Speaker 1: and during a period when he still depended on their

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Speaker 1: consent rather than coercion, were the many actual deeds of butchery.

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Speaker 1: Someday the same Germans, now cheering Hitler strut into Paris,

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Speaker 1: will say to their American friends, into their brave German

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Speaker 1: anti Nazi friends, we did not know what went on.

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Speaker 1: We did not know. And when that day of no

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Speaker 1: nothing comes, there will be laughter in Hell. And there's

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Speaker 1: a lot to say about the forgetting that happened after

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Speaker 1: the war, and some of it was because we wanted

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Speaker 1: the Germans as allies against the Communists. The US government

397
00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 1: was very much willing to to let people forget, and

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Speaker 1: it was not a unified thing. Like one of the

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Speaker 1: things Eisenhower did that I think was really laudable was

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Speaker 1: forced Germans who lived near the concentration camps to tour

401
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Speaker 1: them where they were like still corpses lying out and

402
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Speaker 1: stuff like that. But but for the most part, this

403
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: was allowed to be the mainstream belief. For you go

404
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:45,640
Speaker 1: find old documentaries about the Holocaust and stuff like. This

405
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,560
Speaker 1: was a very widespread belief that most Germans hadn't known

406
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Speaker 1: because it was politically dangerous in the period when those

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00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 1: same Germans were still running Germany to admit that they'd

408
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Speaker 1: known and that they'd at least let it happen. Um.

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Speaker 1: And that's I mean, it's a real bummer. Um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It also makes me think of like the fact that, um,

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Speaker 1: there's so many reminders of what happened in Germany and

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Speaker 1: like all these monuments and stuff, and um, how that's

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Speaker 1: really important. Also for reckoning with UM, something that is

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Speaker 1: like a big historical event that most people would like

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Speaker 1: to forget. Yeah, their country was a part of. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they actually put a lot of If you go to

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Speaker 1: any of like the any of the concentration camps that

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Speaker 1: are actually in Germany, like in order to be a

419
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Speaker 1: guide at one of those places, like there's a certain

420
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,639
Speaker 1: level of education you have to have and and the

421
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: people there are extremely knowledgeable about the Holocaust UM. And

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Speaker 1: it's something that the German government does now put a

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Speaker 1: lot of importance in UM because you you have to

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Speaker 1: people I want to forget that. When people want to forget,

425
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 1: it's not that just they don't want to remember a

426
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 1: bad episode from history. They want to forget that they

427
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: might do that right. They probably wouldn't be Nazis, but

428
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: they would let the Nazis do what the Nazis did.

429
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,239
Speaker 1: And nobody wants to remember that. Nobody wants to think

430
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 1: about that. But it also just makes you think about

431
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: how much wilder it is that people fight for Confederate

432
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:36,920
Speaker 1: monuments here, because they're the opposite of of those kind

433
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:42,760
Speaker 1: of monuments that you're trying to remember the people that

434
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:49,920
Speaker 1: were for something horrible, not the people that fought against them.

435
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 1: So it's it would be like if you want to

436
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: Nazi Germany and all of the monuments, instead of being

437
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 1: too like, um, the Germans being Nazis, we're like, let's

438
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: not this is so we don't forget that there were Nazis.

439
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: Here's uh Henrich Hitler's uh statue. Oh it's right next

440
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: to you know, Hitler and Hitler's garden. It's just like

441
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,879
Speaker 1: that's I mean, and that's something that has been taken

442
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: for granted in America for so long that like, yeah,

443
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: Confederate monuments of course, and on that side, it's time

444
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: for an ad biats that we can all take some

445
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:45,159
Speaker 1: deep breaths off. Mike whoa. I like it when we

446
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:50,720
Speaker 1: can be more playful. Robert say, welcome back. I say, woo,

447
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: everything's fine in the world. So uh yeah. So I

448
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,960
Speaker 1: think it's interesting. I think it's important to note, because

449
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 1: there's very little nuance in our education of the concentration

450
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: camps that they started as a place to put criminals, right,

451
00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: sexual deviance, you know, child molesters, right the the that

452
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,560
Speaker 1: that's what the Nazi that's not what who they were

453
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 1: putting there, but that's how the Nazis justified it, um.

454
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,359
Speaker 1: And you can look at things like Q went on

455
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: suggests going after and whatnot and see some see some

456
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: lines there, but also like what a crazy coincidence that, um,

457
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:35,119
Speaker 1: like all the people um that are the murderers and

458
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,959
Speaker 1: the rapists and whatever are Jewish and gay and roma

459
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: and communist and political. Such a wild coincidence. Yeah, but

460
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 1: it is like you you see shades of that in

461
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,280
Speaker 1: our own fascists, this idea that like everybody who was opposed,

462
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: who is actively opposed to the regime is a criminal,

463
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: you know. And they're not just criminals because they're breaking

464
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,479
Speaker 1: laws in their protests, but there they all have like

465
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: have to be like part of some pedophile cabal they're

466
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: doing like they're they're they're they're all, um, Like it's

467
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: it's this, it's in the reason they do that, right,

468
00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 1: The reason they do that is because it stops normal

469
00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:13,920
Speaker 1: people from caring. Because normal people don't give a ship

470
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: if a criminal gets murdered by the cops, because that's

471
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: supposed to happen. You know, normal people care when someone

472
00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,679
Speaker 1: they see as a good person gets hurt. Um, they

473
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,680
Speaker 1: don't care about criminals because there's a lot that's fucked

474
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: up in our society. But the Nazis were taking advantage

475
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: of that same thing too. You know, you you don't.

476
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 1: You don't say we're cracking down on political dissidents. It's

477
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: we're arresting criminals, and then everybody's fine with it. Yeah.

478
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a quote from a book called Backing

479
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,479
Speaker 1: Hitler by Robert Gladalie, who were just talking about. Um.

480
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: It's a very good book, and it talks about sort

481
00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: of how, um, how the images that the Nazi regime

482
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: put out to justify the people they were locking away.

483
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: The social reception of the images that were projected, no doubt,

484
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: varied enormously. At one end of the scale, these published

485
00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: accounts that a terrorizing or deterrent effect on potential opponents

486
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,880
Speaker 1: of Nazism and those who were officially stigmatized. Certainly, many

487
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,800
Speaker 1: people in the country would have seen through the propaganda. However,

488
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: for good citizens who wanted to return to an idolized

489
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: version of German law and order, these images helped to

490
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: ease the appearance of even the terroristic sides of Hitler's regime.

491
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 1: They could read in the press that those who suffered

492
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: at the hands of the new system were other people,

493
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: Communists and various social outsiders, and the Jews. Good citizens

494
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: were invited to see the camps as educative institutions and

495
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,239
Speaker 1: as a corrective and a warning to those described as

496
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: social rabble, that is, men and women who were habitual criminals,

497
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: the chronically unemployed, beggars, alcoholics, homosexuals, and repeat sex offenders.

498
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 1: Totally different. Now amount of science. It's like Robert says something,

499
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:05,520
Speaker 1: and then then I so one thing about Robert and

500
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: eyes chemistry that's not really Robert and my chemistry. That's

501
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 1: not really popping off over long? What is this zoom call?

502
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,600
Speaker 1: We're on zoom now? Yeah, yeah, thank you, because I

503
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: feel like you pause for me to say something when

504
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: I have nothing to say, and I'm just defeated by

505
00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: the content. And then when I do have something to say,

506
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:32,320
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm in the middle of my thoughts and

507
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 1: I'm like, you're right, You're right. My thing was stupid.

508
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: And that's what's happening podcasting. You know, maybe delete that.

509
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: They don't need to know how this sounds. It just

510
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: made no I like it. Stop saying that. Yeah, So Jesus,

511
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: what a what a time to be alive? So I

512
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: could go through in link excerpts from articles that kind

513
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: of make that point about like Trump topping talking about

514
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: violent criminals and like you know, camps at the border

515
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: and all the crystal fascist paranoia about trans people using bathrooms.

516
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: Which when they talk about the Nazis arresting sex criminals,

517
00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: that's who they were arresting. It's not rapists, it was

518
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: people who had sex they thought was criminal. Um. Yeah.

519
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: Or we could talk about q and On's obsession with

520
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,000
Speaker 1: mythical child sex traffickers. But like you, we've all been

521
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:27,959
Speaker 1: through the same news cycles. I'm sure you see the parallels. Uh.

522
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: And a read through of Professor Gladalle's book, which I

523
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: do recommend reveal several of them. Quote Orrick Herbert recently

524
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: suggested that during the Nazi years there was a growing

525
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: lack of moral concern in German society for human rights

526
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 1: and the protection of minorities, which grew rapidly during the

527
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,960
Speaker 1: years of the dictatorship, and which led to a profound

528
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: moral brutalization in Germany. That's familiar, right, growing lack of

529
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: concern for human rights and protection of minorities in the

530
00:30:54,880 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: society leading to brutalization Um. Yeah. Gladali himself uses the

531
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: term desensitization to refer to the impact that the Nazis

532
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: years long drumbeat of like news articles about the people

533
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,080
Speaker 1: that were arresting and sending away and killing, the impact

534
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: that had on people, desensitization. Again, we're experiencing a version

535
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: of that ourselves, with all of the hundreds of thousands

536
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: of deaths from from from COVID nineteen, with the violence

537
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: in the streets, with like these, these, this constant drumbeat

538
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: of police murders, like and and just you know, not

539
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: even from like stories about death, but just like the

540
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: sheer amount of horrible things happening, it just numbs you

541
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: after a while that was going on then too. Um

542
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 1: another thing we don't talk about enough. So while we're

543
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: talking about desensitization and genocide, we should probably talk a

544
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 1: little bit about some of the little Nazis who wound

545
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: up as cogs in the machine of death that actually

546
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: made the Holocaust happen. This is the dead baby section, Sophia. Finally,

547
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: keep your Jesus, I had a fucking prologue in this

548
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: some bitch, So I want to quote now from an

549
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:10,719
Speaker 1: article in Der Schpiegel titled Everyday Murder Nazi atrocities committed

550
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: by ordinary people quote. Perpetrators included both committed Nazis and

551
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,560
Speaker 1: people who had nothing to do with the Nazis. The

552
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 1: murderers and their assistants included Catholics and Protestants, the old

553
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 1: and the young, people with double doctorates, and poorly educated

554
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:28,000
Speaker 1: members of the working class. And the percentage of psychopaths

555
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: was not higher than the average in society as a whole.

556
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 1: One thing you have to accept if you really want

557
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: to understand the Holocaust is that most of the people

558
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:39,239
Speaker 1: involved were what we would describe as mentally healthy. They

559
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: were not people who could have been diagnosed with any

560
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: sort of of of mental illness UM which again like that,

561
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: This is why I pushed back whenever people talk about

562
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,240
Speaker 1: the Nazis being crazy or Hitler Is being crazy, Like, no,

563
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: these were rational people taking rational action that happened to

564
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: be the worst thing you can imagine. And that's so

565
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: much scarier UM now in the early nineteen nine So

566
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: didn't they put mentally ill people. That's the first people

567
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,280
Speaker 1: that they executed a lot of That's the biggest than

568
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 1: most horrible irony to call people that were just like willingly, um,

569
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: being agents of fascism. Yeah, I'm comparing them and to

570
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: people that are actually mentally ill. It's very it it is,

571
00:33:25,160 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: it's sick, and it's wrong because it ignored, it completely

572
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: ignores what was actually going down. Um. And that's that's

573
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 1: very important. Like the very first um, you know, the

574
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: gas chambers. Before the gas chambers, they were actually using

575
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: like like trucks that they would hook up carbon monoxide

576
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: gas too and pump into the trucks and they'd fill

577
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: them with people. And the people they experimented on first,

578
00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: the first people the Nazis killed with any kind of

579
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: poison gas were mentally handicapped folks. Yep, that's how it started. Um.

580
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: I think it was the T four ethan Asia program.

581
00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,200
Speaker 1: Might maybe getting things a little bit wrong there, but yeah.

582
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: So in the early nineteen nineties, a large group of

583
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,400
Speaker 1: researchers and historians began the long plotting work of digging

584
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,920
Speaker 1: through mountains of the Third Reich surviving records and their

585
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,399
Speaker 1: goal was to put together for the first time. And again,

586
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: this is right around the time that they're starting to

587
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: understand that like actually most Germans were complicit to some degree. Um.

588
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 1: So that they're starting to understand this, and they're trying

589
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,919
Speaker 1: to put together a comprehensive list of actual active perpetrators

590
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: in the Holocaust for the first time, not just the leadership,

591
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: but in everyone who pulled a trigger or the equivalent, um,

592
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: the people who loaded Jewish folks in the train cars,

593
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: the people who man gas chambers, everybody, and at present,

594
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,799
Speaker 1: the number of active participants that they have listed. These

595
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,720
Speaker 1: are all individual people include more than two hundred thousand

596
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: Germans and another two hundred thousand Ukrainians, Estonians, Lithuanians, and

597
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: members of other occupied countries, including Frenchmen. Now, one of

598
00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: the little Germans who pulled a lot of triggers was

599
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,240
Speaker 1: Walter Mattner. And Walter was a police secretary from Vienna

600
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 1: who had been just kind of a function arry in

601
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: the Viennese police and then joined the s S when

602
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 1: the war started and became an administrative officer. And we

603
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 1: have a lot of his letters to his wife back

604
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: at home, and from those we learned quite a bit

605
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,320
Speaker 1: about the man. I'm gonna have a link to just

606
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: like a sheet that has all of his letters home

607
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: on it, because it's very compelling stuff. On September one,

608
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: right after his first entry into the conquered territories of

609
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union after the invasion started, he wrote, if

610
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 1: I were not already a national Socialist, the first day

611
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: of my wartime deployment would have turned me into one

612
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: through and through now not that long after. On twenty

613
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: nine September, about a week later, he wrote a letter

614
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 1: in which he assured his wife that he and his

615
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,120
Speaker 1: fellow men of the s S were not committing war

616
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 1: crimes against the Jews of Eastern Europe. He insisted, at

617
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 1: the most we arranged things, i e. Everything is taken

618
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: away from the Jews. Just a few days later, like

619
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,839
Speaker 1: three or four days later, on October second, nineteen forty one,

620
00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,879
Speaker 1: he wrote this, This is again a letter to his wife.

621
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 1: I should have already turned in. It's already nine pm,

622
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:07,840
Speaker 1: and I volunteered for a special operation. Tomorrow REVELI is

623
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: at four thirty am, and we're moving off at five

624
00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 1: thirty am tomorrow. I'll also have the first opportunity to

625
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: use my pistol. I'm taking twenty eight rounds with me.

626
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: Probably won't be enough, but another comrade will lend me

627
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: his pistol or carbine. I don't even know if I'm

628
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: being permitted to tell you this, but that the Jews

629
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: are our misfortune. That's something you've known for a long time,

630
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 1: and it's something we saw again and again on our

631
00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,960
Speaker 1: journey to Warsaw and onto here. Just how many comrades

632
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: are already resting in the cool earth, and this is

633
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: how many young men are sleeping single and married the

634
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:40,120
Speaker 1: prime of our German nation to protect our home from

635
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: the monsters we have gotten to know here. It is

636
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 1: simply dreadful to have to look at these Asiatic hords.

637
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 1: What we Europeans feel when seeing this, You can understand

638
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 1: bitterness that takes a hold of me and which everyone

639
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 1: here feels when thinking of our home and our great

640
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: fateful struggle which we have to wrestle through here. For

641
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:59,400
Speaker 1: our people, what are one thousand, two hundred Jews who

642
00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 1: are two men and yet another city and have to

643
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: be bumped off? As the saying goes, it is only

644
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: the just punishment for all the suffering they have inflicted

645
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: and continue to inflict on us Germans. Until I arrive home.

646
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,760
Speaker 1: I shall tell you nice things, but enough for today,

647
00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:19,479
Speaker 1: Otherwise you'll believe that I'm bloodthirsty. Wow on October seven,

648
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,399
Speaker 1: Walter and his comrades traveled to a village named Muglov

649
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,240
Speaker 1: in Belarus. There they gathered up two thousand, two hundred

650
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: and seventy three Jewish people. They stripped them of everything

651
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: but the clothes on their backs, line them up beside

652
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,359
Speaker 1: an open pit, and shot every single one of them

653
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:38,640
Speaker 1: to death at close range. Walter Mattner, mild mannered police secretary,

654
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,719
Speaker 1: wrote this home to his wife. For the first truckload,

655
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: my hand trembled slightly when shooting, but one gets used

656
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: to it. By the time the tenth truck arrived, I

657
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,200
Speaker 1: was already aiming steadily and fired surely at the many women,

658
00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 1: children in infants. Bear in mind that I also have

659
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: two babies at home to whom these hordes would do

660
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: the same, if not ten times worse. The death we

661
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,480
Speaker 1: gave them was a nice, short death compared to the

662
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: hell is torture meeted out to hunt thousands upon thousands

663
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: in the dungeons of the gpu. Infants flew in a

664
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 1: white arc through the air, and we blew them away

665
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: while still in flight, before they then fell into the

666
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: pit and the water. Let's get rid of this brood

667
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: which has plunged the whole of Europe into war, and

668
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:17,799
Speaker 1: is still mongering in America until it drags them into

669
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 1: the war as well. Hitler's words are coming true what

670
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: he once said before the war began. If jewelry believes

671
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 1: it will be able to incite a war in Europe again,

672
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 1: it won't be the Jews who will triumph, but will

673
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: herald the end of jewelry in Europe. Magliev has now

674
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:32,880
Speaker 1: lost a number with three Zeros, but that's of no

675
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,799
Speaker 1: consequence here. I'm already looking forward to it, and many

676
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 1: here are saying that when we return home, it's the

677
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: turn of our local Jews. This is probably a cool

678
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,600
Speaker 1: time to mention that my grandma's family was shot to

679
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,520
Speaker 1: death by the Nazis. So it bringing back some real

680
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,320
Speaker 1: fond memories. Yeah. Yeah, these are the people who do that,

681
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: and it it um, it happened to a tremendous degree.

682
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:01,839
Speaker 1: The eyes who did this, for the most part were

683
00:39:01,920 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 1: um groups called the INSETS group and which was like

684
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: it means special task unit and it was it was

685
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 1: a lot of SS like it was like the folks

686
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: that they recruited for this, a lot of them had

687
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: been local police officers, before um. And these were folks

688
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,279
Speaker 1: who were willing who they This was kind of the

689
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 1: first attempt at carrying out a genocide and mass and

690
00:39:20,960 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: they did it with gunfire. And they realized very quickly

691
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 1: that this was not um. Yeah, it was not efficient um.

692
00:39:28,640 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that a little bit later. But

693
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 1: but reading about Mattner's crimes in particular brought to mind

694
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,160
Speaker 1: a passage from Meyer's book that I find rather striking,

695
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna I'm gonna read that passage. Now. The

696
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:44,280
Speaker 1: German language, like every other, has some glorious epithets untranslatable

697
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: and will get wordney Spiceburger is one of them. It

698
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:55,919
Speaker 1: means very roughly, little men gone wild. I think about

699
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,880
Speaker 1: that a lot when I think about us, when I

700
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: think about some of the things I've being in the streets,

701
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:07,719
Speaker 1: little men gone wild. That's some powerful ship. Yeah. So,

702
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: as it turned out, Mattner, obviously former police officer killing

703
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,800
Speaker 1: people in Belarus for the Third Reich, and his fellow

704
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: police back home in Germany were hard at work on

705
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: that same task. Uh, and they thought they were free.

706
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: Meyer notes that his friend, the sensitive politician Hoffmeister quote

707
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,400
Speaker 1: did his duty in nineteen thirty eight when he was

708
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: ordered to arrest Jews for being Jews. One of those

709
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:32,399
Speaker 1: he arrested the Taylor Morrowitz and this guy survived the war,

710
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: calls him a decent man, which I have trouble getting

711
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: into that guy's head too. Um. But it's a it's

712
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: a shade of genocide that we don't see enough. I

713
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:50,759
Speaker 1: think that is important to tell people about. Yeah, definitely.

714
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 1: One of the most bitter and fucked up realities of

715
00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 1: the Holocaust is that a lot of the killing was

716
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:01,080
Speaker 1: done by folks who would other wise be described as

717
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:03,520
Speaker 1: decent men, people who were good husbands and good fathers

718
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: and friendly, positive members of their community, nice people, people

719
00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: who would have smiled at you as you passed them

720
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: on the street when they were old men. Uh. And

721
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: people who also played an active role in the extermination

722
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,840
Speaker 1: of millions, people like, for example, Major Trap of Reserve

723
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:21,040
Speaker 1: Police Battalion one oh one. And I'm gonna quote from

724
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,440
Speaker 1: the Guardian to tell you about Major Trap. According to

725
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: witness testimony, Major Trap was in tears when he ordered

726
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 1: the shooting a fifteen hundred women, children, and elderly Jews

727
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:33,879
Speaker 1: near Warsaw, all the while saying an order is an order.

728
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: In July ninety two, his men drove the victims out

729
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: of their homes, loaded them into trucks, and took them

730
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: to a remote clearing to be executed. They shot them

731
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: in the head or in the back of the neck,

732
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: and in the evening, the soldiers uniforms were covered with

733
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: bone fragments, brain matter, and bloodstains. And that's like, that's

734
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: I think almost a more useful picture of what it

735
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 1: means to commit genocide is this man weeping and going

736
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:07,320
Speaker 1: through with it anyway because it's an order. That's just

737
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:12,080
Speaker 1: so fucking frightening to me. Um. I think anytime you

738
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 1: justify anything with it's an order, it's a frightening thing

739
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: because it's just completely uh takes away like the humanity

740
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: a decision all the way. Yeah, And it's why we

741
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: decided at Nuremberg that like, being under orders was not

742
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 1: an excuse to commit genocide, because it's not. But it

743
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: is precisely because of that guy. Um. Now, you may

744
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,719
Speaker 1: have noticed that a lot of the folks were talking

745
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 1: about in this segment about people who actually committed genocide

746
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,000
Speaker 1: by pulling triggers themselves. A lot of those people were cops,

747
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: strange weird. I wonder what the connection is there. Huh Yeah.

748
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: The Nazis stay was adept at using regular police to

749
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: round up Jews and other undesirables, and overwhelmingly German police

750
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: officers who were not members of the Nazi Party previously

751
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: agreed to do this work without complaint. Timothy Snyder, a

752
00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 1: Holocaust scholar and one of the world's great experts on fascism,

753
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,760
Speaker 1: one of your must reads if you want to understand

754
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: what happened, uh notes in his book Black Earth that

755
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 1: regular police were a key resource for the Nazis. Quote

756
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 1: after its triumph in the Night of Long Knives, the

757
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 1: s S implemented Hitler's fourth innovation, the hybridization of institutions.

758
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 1: Crime was redefined, racial and state organizations were merged, and

759
00:43:38,120 --> 00:43:41,319
Speaker 1: cadras were rotated back and forth. In nineteen thirty five,

760
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: in a significant reform, Himmler explicitly redefined the s S

761
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: and the police apparatus as a single organ of racial protection. Himler,

762
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: who served a racial movement rather than a traditional state,

763
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 1: personally directed both the s S and the German police.

764
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: From nineteen thirty six, the Investigative Service of the s

765
00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 1: S proposed a new definition of political crime. It was

766
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: not crime against the state. The state had validity only

767
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: insofar as it represented the race. Since politics was nothing

768
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: but biology, political crime was a crime against the German race. Now,

769
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:15,400
Speaker 1: later on in that same book, Snyder continues, the Einstetz

770
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:19,160
Speaker 1: group and we're also hybrid organizations, mixing SS members and others.

771
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 1: The police forces themselves were hybridized from within, as police

772
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,040
Speaker 1: officers were recruited to the SS, while s S officers

773
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,719
Speaker 1: were assigned to the police. The secret State Police, the

774
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: detectives of the criminal police, and even the regular uniformed

775
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 1: order police were to become Himmler's racial warriors. And police

776
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: are tools of the state. They are they are. And

777
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: if we're talking about hybridization of the police with shall

778
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 1: we say, federal forces vehicles or I don't know, yeah,

779
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: or deputized cops who get federal arresting powers, or what's

780
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 1: been happening with ICE for the last four years years.

781
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from a Pro Publica article here. In

782
00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: the year after President Trump took off, as state and

783
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,800
Speaker 1: local police officers across Pennsylvania swept car loads of Hispanic

784
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: immigrants into ICE's net. In the process, they helped the

785
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: agency's regional field off Talas office, Telly, more than more

786
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,440
Speaker 1: at large ar rests of undocumented immigrants without criminal convictions

787
00:45:18,600 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: than any of the twenty three other field offices in

788
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 1: the country. These are immigrants picked up in communities, not

789
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 1: at local jails in prisons. Last year, five states New York, California, Illinois, Oregon,

790
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,759
Speaker 1: and Washington limited how police can question immigrants about their

791
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: legal status or hold them for ICE without a warrant. Separately,

792
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 1: more than four counties restricted their engagement with ICE enforcement,

793
00:45:38,520 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: according to a national survey. On the other hand, fifty

794
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 1: nine local agencies and seventeen states have partnerships with ICE

795
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 1: to train and deputize their officers to enforce immigration laws. Hybridization,

796
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:57,319
Speaker 1: baby and eat Yeah, and it makes you wonder how

797
00:45:57,400 --> 00:46:00,439
Speaker 1: many major traps exist on our police force is today.

798
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 1: Men who might be friendly and polite, um, but who

799
00:46:03,480 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: would stand there with tears in their eyes and shoot

800
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,440
Speaker 1: dissidents if that's what they were supposed to do. Popular

801
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,920
Speaker 1: history likes to focus on outrageous villains like you know, Hitler,

802
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 1: But I think these guys are are are are more

803
00:46:17,719 --> 00:46:21,400
Speaker 1: important to study the the the these otherwise decent normal

804
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 1: people who completely fail the thing that turns out to

805
00:46:24,719 --> 00:46:27,680
Speaker 1: be the greatest moral test of their lives. I say, agents,

806
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:33,120
Speaker 1: anyone who's running any of the detention facilities, abusing children

807
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: in those facilities, any any of those things. But also,

808
00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: in a way, all of us who live with it,

809
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: everyone who's able to live with it. You know, that

810
00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 1: brings me back to the little list of the little Nazis,

811
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 1: these guys, these men and women who lived in quiet

812
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: small towns and villages and suburbs, you know, and most

813
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: of these people were people of conscience. They didn't vote

814
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,200
Speaker 1: for Hitler when they had chance to vote for Hitler

815
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: um and you know, to the extent that they were

816
00:47:04,239 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 1: aware of what was going on, a lot of them

817
00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:09,439
Speaker 1: probably wondered, what can I do? How can I keep

818
00:47:09,520 --> 00:47:13,760
Speaker 1: this from happening? And part of why they let it happen,

819
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:17,239
Speaker 1: part of why they sat back while their camps were

820
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,600
Speaker 1: killing people, were sterilizing people, is because they were just

821
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 1: overwhelmed by daily life. Like if you read these people's interviews,

822
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:25,160
Speaker 1: that's a thing you'll hear a lot, is that there

823
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:27,800
Speaker 1: was just so much going on, right, There was so

824
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:30,520
Speaker 1: much happening in the world, and so many different like

825
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,320
Speaker 1: things occurring. I didn't know what to do, and I

826
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:36,000
Speaker 1: was just exhausted all the time. It's a great excuse,

827
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 1: isn't it. Like, Yeah, there's a there's so. So. In

828
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:42,840
Speaker 1: his book, Meyer talks to one of his German colleagues,

829
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: and this isn't one of the friends that he was studying,

830
00:47:44,960 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 1: because those guys were all members of the Nazi Party.

831
00:47:46,680 --> 00:47:48,400
Speaker 1: This man was not a Nazi, but he was a

832
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: German who lived in Germany when the Nazis were in power. Um.

833
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 1: He was a linguistics expert and an academic who was

834
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,239
Speaker 1: obsessed with the study of Middle high German. So he

835
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: was he had his field of study that he loved

836
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 1: and was tried to kind of pour himself into while

837
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: the Nazis rose to power. He told Meyer, quote, what

838
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,960
Speaker 1: happened here was the gradual habituation of the people little

839
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: by little to being governed by surprise, to receiving decisions

840
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 1: deliberated in secret, to believing that the situation was so

841
00:48:16,719 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 1: complicated that the government had to act on information which

842
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:22,839
Speaker 1: the people could not understand, or so dangerous that even

843
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: if the people could understand it, it could not be

844
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 1: released because of national security. Yeah, and we've talked a

845
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,960
Speaker 1: lot about Trump and this, but that's not Trump, that's Obama,

846
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: that's w. Bush, that's Bill Clinton, that's Bush Senior. That's

847
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: an increasing thing that's been happening in America under all

848
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: of the good presidents that have led us to this

849
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 1: point is the habituation of people to being governed by surprise.

850
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:55,480
Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, uh, speaking of being governed by surprise,

851
00:48:56,239 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you to take an ad break. Surprise

852
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: Bitch Goods and Services nailed it. Good to know that

853
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: our comedic timing is still a boy, Sophie me, and

854
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: you're better than ever rising to the occasion. All right,

855
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: we're back. So for most ordinary people, the extraordinary degree

856
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: of trust that they had in Hitler, and there was

857
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:32,200
Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of that, especially as he starts to

858
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: win these victories. He starts to achieve things that had

859
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 1: seemed impossible, you know, the retaking the Pseudente Land, rebuilding

860
00:49:38,480 --> 00:49:42,720
Speaker 1: the German military concrete in France. Um. People had faith

861
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,080
Speaker 1: in him, and so that was one reason a lot

862
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:48,319
Speaker 1: of them were able to ignore the disappearances in the night. Um.

863
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,959
Speaker 1: But that wasn't a factor for the people who weren't

864
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 1: Nazis the people who never converted. For them, the thing

865
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:58,040
Speaker 1: that stopped them from doing more was not just personal fear.

866
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:01,840
Speaker 1: It was the exhaustion and burnout they had from living

867
00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 1: in a society like this. And I'm gonna quote again

868
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: from that linguist Zim talking to Meyer. You will understand

869
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:10,880
Speaker 1: me when I say that my middle high German was

870
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 1: my life. It was all I cared about. I was

871
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 1: a scholar, a specialist. Then suddenly I was plunged into

872
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,680
Speaker 1: all the new activity as the university was drawn into

873
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: the new situation, that new situation being fascism. Meetings, conferences,

874
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: interview ceremonies, and above all papers to be filled out, reports, bibliographies, lists, questionnaires,

875
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,280
Speaker 1: and on top of that where the demands in the community,

876
00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 1: the things one in which one had to one was

877
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: expected to participate that had not been there or had

878
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,879
Speaker 1: not been important before. It was all rigamarole, of course,

879
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 1: but it consumed all one's energies. Coming on top of

880
00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:44,200
Speaker 1: the work one really wanted to do. You can see

881
00:50:44,239 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 1: how easy it was then not to think about fundamental things.

882
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:52,120
Speaker 1: One had no time. Those Meyer said in response are

883
00:50:52,200 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: the words of my friend the Baker one had no

884
00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: time to think. There was so much going on. Your

885
00:50:57,480 --> 00:50:59,920
Speaker 1: friend the Baker was right, said my colleague. The dictate

886
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:02,439
Speaker 1: leadership and the whole process of its coming into being

887
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:06,440
Speaker 1: was above all diverting. It provided an excuse not to

888
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,960
Speaker 1: think for people who did not want to think anyway.

889
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 1: I do not speak of your little men, your baker

890
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,720
Speaker 1: and so on. I speak of my colleagues and myself

891
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 1: learned men. Mind you, most of us did not want

892
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,880
Speaker 1: to think about the fundamental things, and never had. There

893
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,400
Speaker 1: was no need to. Nazism gave us some dreadful, fundamental

894
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: things to think about. We were decent people and kept

895
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:29,160
Speaker 1: so busy with continuous changes in crises, and so fascinated, yes,

896
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: fascinated by the machinations of the national enemies without and

897
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:35,359
Speaker 1: within that we had no time to think about these

898
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 1: dreadful things that were growing little by little all around us. Unconsciously,

899
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:47,319
Speaker 1: I suppose we were grateful. Who wants to think, Wow, damn, yeah,

900
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:54,400
Speaker 1: I didn't like that. But yeah, yeah, myself in this

901
00:51:54,640 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 1: photo and I don't like it. That's how if you

902
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: really study the Nazis, you should see yourself more and

903
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: more with everything you learn in them. And if you don't.

904
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: You're not studying them, right. That's what's scary about them.

905
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,520
Speaker 1: That's what's scary about the Holocaust. They thought they were

906
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,239
Speaker 1: free as a chilling book. But I don't think there's

907
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:19,719
Speaker 1: any competition for the most frightening passage in the whole work.

908
00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: It comes when Meyer sits down, sat down with one

909
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,480
Speaker 1: of his colleagues, a chemical engineer. And again this is

910
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,400
Speaker 1: another non Nazi, and he is more depressing than the

911
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: one you just read. Oh yeah, yes, this is the

912
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:35,200
Speaker 1: bleakest thing I may ever have read. So he sits

913
00:52:35,239 --> 00:52:37,720
Speaker 1: down with this anti Nazi colleague of his, a chemical

914
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 1: engineer who lived through the Reich, and he asks him,

915
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: one day, tell me, now, how was the world lost?

916
00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:48,680
Speaker 1: And this is his colleague's response. The world was lost

917
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:52,120
Speaker 1: one day in nineteen thirty five here in Germany. It

918
00:52:52,280 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: was I who lost it. And I will tell you how.

919
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: I was employed in a defense plant, a war plant,

920
00:52:57,680 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: of course, but they were always called defense plants. That

921
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:02,680
Speaker 1: was the year of the National Defense Law, the law

922
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: of total Conscription. Under the law, I was required to

923
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 1: take the oath of fidelity. I said I would not.

924
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: I opposed it in conscience. I was given twenty four

925
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 1: hours to think it over. In those twenty four hours,

926
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: I lost the world, yes, I said, and this is

927
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,759
Speaker 1: Meyer speaking, you see. His friend responded, refusal would have

928
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,520
Speaker 1: meant the loss of my job, of course, not prison

929
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: or anything like that. Later on the penalty was worse.

930
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:30,840
Speaker 1: But this was only nineteen thirty five. But losing my

931
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,880
Speaker 1: job would have meant that I could not get another

932
00:53:33,200 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: wherever I went. I should be asked why I left

933
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:37,840
Speaker 1: the job I had, and when I said why, I

934
00:53:37,880 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: should certainly have been refused employment. Nobody would hire a Bolshevik.

935
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:44,680
Speaker 1: Of course I was not a Bolshevik, but you understand

936
00:53:44,719 --> 00:53:47,600
Speaker 1: what I mean, yes, Meyer said. I tried not to

937
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,160
Speaker 1: think of myself or my family. We might have gotten

938
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: out of the country in any case, and I could

939
00:53:52,080 --> 00:53:54,839
Speaker 1: have got a job in an industry or education somewhere else.

940
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: What I tried to think of was the people to

941
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: whom I might be some help later on if things

942
00:53:59,239 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: got worse, and as I believe they would, I had

943
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:05,560
Speaker 1: a wide friendship in scientific and academic circles, including many

944
00:54:05,680 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 1: Jews and Arians too, who might be in trouble. If

945
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:10,520
Speaker 1: I took the oath and held my job, I might

946
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:12,840
Speaker 1: be of help somehow as things went on, if I

947
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:15,240
Speaker 1: refused to take the oath, I would certainly be useless

948
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 1: to my friends. Even if I remained in the country,

949
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,439
Speaker 1: I myself would be in their situation. The next day,

950
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: after thinking it over, I said I would take the

951
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 1: oath with the mental reservation that by the words with

952
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: which the oath began, I swear by God, I understood

953
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:32,160
Speaker 1: that no human being, in no government had the right

954
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: to override my conscience. My mental reservations did not interest

955
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: the official who administered the oath. He said, do you

956
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: take the oath? And I took it. That day the

957
00:54:41,280 --> 00:54:43,800
Speaker 1: world was lost, and it was I who will lost it.

958
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: Do I understand? Meyer said that you think you should

959
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:50,880
Speaker 1: not have taken the oath? Yes, But Meyer said, you

960
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:53,279
Speaker 1: did save many lives later on. You were of greater

961
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,160
Speaker 1: use to your friends than you ever dreamed you might be.

962
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 1: His friend's apartment was until his arrested imprisonment in nineteen

963
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,279
Speaker 1: forty three, a hide out for hugitives. This man hid

964
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: people from the Nazis. For the sake of argument, he said,

965
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,080
Speaker 1: I will agree that I saved many lives later on, Yes,

966
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: which you would not have done if you had refused

967
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,200
Speaker 1: to take the oath in nineteen thirty five. Yes, of course,

968
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:15,240
Speaker 1: I must explain. First of all, there is the problem

969
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,000
Speaker 1: of the lesser evil. Taking the oath was not so

970
00:55:18,160 --> 00:55:20,320
Speaker 1: evil as being unable to help my friends later on

971
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:23,000
Speaker 1: would have been. But the evil of the oath was

972
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:26,520
Speaker 1: certain and immediate, and the helping of my friends was

973
00:55:26,600 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: in the future and therefore uncertain. I had to commit

974
00:55:30,160 --> 00:55:33,080
Speaker 1: a positive evil there and then in the hope of

975
00:55:33,120 --> 00:55:36,640
Speaker 1: a possible good later on. The good outweighed the evil,

976
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 1: but the good was only a hope. The evil effect

977
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: there then is my point. If I had refused to

978
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,439
Speaker 1: take the oath of fidelity, I would have saved all

979
00:55:45,960 --> 00:55:48,160
Speaker 1: three million he says, three million. He's talking about all

980
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,040
Speaker 1: of the eleven million people we now know died in

981
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 1: the Holocaust. This was before they had a full count.

982
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,560
Speaker 1: You are joking, Meyer said, No, you don't mean to

983
00:55:56,600 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 1: tell me that your refusal would have overthrown the regime

984
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:01,640
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five. No, or that others would have

985
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: followed your example. No, I don't understand. You are an American,

986
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:08,800
Speaker 1: he said again, smiling. I will explain there I was

987
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:12,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five a perfect example of the kind

988
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: of person who, with all of his advantages in birth

989
00:56:14,880 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 1: and education and in position, rules or might easily rule

990
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,120
Speaker 1: in any country. If I had refused to take the

991
00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:23,719
Speaker 1: oath in nineteen thirty five, it would have meant that

992
00:56:23,840 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: thousands and thousands like me all over Germany were refusing

993
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:31,239
Speaker 1: to take it. Their refusal would have heartened millions. Thus

994
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,200
Speaker 1: the regime would have been overthrown, or indeed would never

995
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 1: have come to power in the first place. The fact

996
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,400
Speaker 1: that I was not prepared to resist in nineteen thirty

997
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,160
Speaker 1: five meant that all the thousands, hundreds of thousands like

998
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:45,680
Speaker 1: me in Germany were also unprepared, And each one of

999
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: these hundreds of thousands was like me, a man of

1000
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:52,640
Speaker 1: great influence or of great potential influence. Thus the world

1001
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,439
Speaker 1: was lost. You were serious, Meyer said completely. He said,

1002
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,399
Speaker 1: these hundred lives I've saved, or a thousand or ten,

1003
00:56:59,480 --> 00:57:02,319
Speaker 1: as you will, what do they represent a little something

1004
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,759
Speaker 1: out of the whole terrible evil? When if my faith

1005
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 1: had been strong enough in nineteen thirty five, I could

1006
00:57:07,560 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 1: have prevented the whole evil. Your faith, Meyer asked, my faith.

1007
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,480
Speaker 1: I did not believe that I could remove mountains the

1008
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 1: day I said, no, I had faith in the process

1009
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,520
Speaker 1: of thinking it over. In the next twenty four hours,

1010
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,240
Speaker 1: my faith failed me. So in the next ten years

1011
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,880
Speaker 1: I was able to remove only antills, not mountains. How

1012
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,200
Speaker 1: might your faith on that first day have been sustained?

1013
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:31,000
Speaker 1: Meyer asked, I don't know. I don't know, he said,

1014
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,880
Speaker 1: do you. I am an American, I said, my friend smiled.

1015
00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:38,960
Speaker 1: Therefore you believe in education, yes, Meyer said, My education

1016
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:41,000
Speaker 1: did not help me, and I had a broader and

1017
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: better education than most men have had or ever will have.

1018
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:46,600
Speaker 1: All it did, in the end was enabled me to

1019
00:57:46,800 --> 00:57:50,200
Speaker 1: rationalize my failure of faith more easily than I might

1020
00:57:50,240 --> 00:57:52,840
Speaker 1: have done if I had been ignorant. And so it was.

1021
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 1: I think among educated men generally in that time in Germany,

1022
00:57:57,040 --> 00:58:01,240
Speaker 1: their resistance was no greater than other men's. When do

1023
00:58:01,360 --> 00:58:06,440
Speaker 1: you think the day was lost here? I don't know

1024
00:58:06,600 --> 00:58:11,680
Speaker 1: that it has been, But I know that if I

1025
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:18,480
Speaker 1: just mean in terms of how far like that, we

1026
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:23,400
Speaker 1: couldn't have imagined so far that like we we didn't

1027
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: know that Trump's presidency, uh I would have resulted in

1028
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:32,120
Speaker 1: all of the things that it did. Even though we

1029
00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: didn't know that it would be terrible. I So when

1030
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: do you think was the moment that that mass miscalculation

1031
00:58:40,600 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: happened for the people that were not like active Trump supporters,

1032
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: but that went along and voted for him. I mean,

1033
00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 1: I guess you could say when they cast a ballot.

1034
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: Now there's an element of which obviously the thing that

1035
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: had happened in Germany that this person is talking about

1036
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:58,959
Speaker 1: has not happened to us yet. There's no regime making

1037
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 1: us take loyalty. No, no, no, of course not. But

1038
00:59:01,600 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: that's not what I'm saying. I'm it's a one to one.

1039
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:10,520
Speaker 1: I'm just saying that as pessimistic because I was Trump

1040
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 1: got elected, I couldn't have even imagined that it's been

1041
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:17,120
Speaker 1: so much worse. So yeah, so it just makes me

1042
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:23,680
Speaker 1: wonder at what point people who voted for him, while

1043
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,480
Speaker 1: you know, quote unquote holding their nose or whatever, at

1044
00:59:27,520 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: what moment it was lost for them when they decided that,

1045
00:59:30,600 --> 00:59:33,720
Speaker 1: you know what, I'll just fucking vote for him. Yeah,

1046
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it's got to be. It can't be the

1047
00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: emails like what was the straw? I don't know. Um,

1048
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: that's a question I go with all of the time,

1049
00:59:48,400 --> 00:59:51,840
Speaker 1: and some of it is that as it was then, Um,

1050
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,840
Speaker 1: you know, the the thing that I think this fellow

1051
00:59:56,880 --> 01:00:00,840
Speaker 1: is talking about that that we we have not hit yet,

1052
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:05,480
Speaker 1: is that the time at which decent people completely surrender

1053
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,640
Speaker 1: to the regime. Um. But it is a thing that

1054
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:12,200
Speaker 1: will happen if the regime gains enough power, because decent

1055
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: people are always scared of dying. UM. And I think

1056
01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:23,640
Speaker 1: the folks who have crossed the line already, we're neither

1057
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: decent nor educated. You have to have had a failure

1058
01:00:26,880 --> 01:00:30,760
Speaker 1: of education or decency to have voted for Trump. And

1059
01:00:30,840 --> 01:00:34,479
Speaker 1: you know it's not it's not the people who vote

1060
01:00:34,560 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 1: for him that scare me the most. It's it's again

1061
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: the people who didn't vote for him. But if it

1062
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,920
Speaker 1: meant the difference between their lives or not, would let

1063
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:51,720
Speaker 1: the camps on the border where there's force ticks directed

1064
01:00:51,800 --> 01:00:54,360
Speaker 1: me is occurring and babies being put in cages, would

1065
01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,600
Speaker 1: let those turn into full death camps because the alternative

1066
01:00:57,680 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: would be would be their own not even loss of life,

1067
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:03,960
Speaker 1: but loss of comfort and prestige. Like that's the that's

1068
01:01:04,000 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 1: the thing. That's the thing. Like the lesson that this

1069
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:11,040
Speaker 1: guy is trying to get across to people is that

1070
01:01:14,440 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: it is not the fascists decision to let the fascists win.

1071
01:01:20,680 --> 01:01:24,720
Speaker 1: They don't make the final call. We do. They only

1072
01:01:24,880 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: win if we consent to their victory, as millions of

1073
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:35,800
Speaker 1: decent people consented to the victory of the Nazis. Mic drop, Yeah,

1074
01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:44,240
Speaker 1: you want to plug your plugable story. Fucking funk yourself. Sorry,

1075
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 1: I was. I'm on the edge of teers, so I'm

1076
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 1: trying to Oh, I know, I know, I feel that. Um.

1077
01:01:49,880 --> 01:01:52,200
Speaker 1: I felt that energy this whole time I was on

1078
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,960
Speaker 1: the Virgin Teers earlier. You know, it's the kind of

1079
01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 1: life we're living, my man cool time, So you know, guys,

1080
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: follow it out. I'm just really don't want to do this.

1081
01:02:07,480 --> 01:02:13,520
Speaker 1: Get us up on the Graham. Um. If you want

1082
01:02:13,560 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: to not kill yourself, I guess, uh, maybe listen to

1083
01:02:17,880 --> 01:02:23,040
Speaker 1: my comedy album Father's Day available wherever you listen to things.

1084
01:02:23,320 --> 01:02:25,440
Speaker 1: Can I just can I just say that when I

1085
01:02:25,680 --> 01:02:29,400
Speaker 1: plut a shuffle on my like music library and it's

1086
01:02:29,520 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: you and you come up like after like a really

1087
01:02:32,840 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: somber song, it's so great. It's just you being just

1088
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,520
Speaker 1: your radiant itself and it just like makes my day

1089
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:48,720
Speaker 1: every lovely Thank you, Sophie. If you guys want to

1090
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:56,040
Speaker 1: find my podcasts that are not about dead babies, learning

1091
01:02:56,120 --> 01:03:00,440
Speaker 1: some of great transitions from Robert You can watch me

1092
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:05,920
Speaker 1: talking about fiance with Miles Gray from The Daily day

1093
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:09,640
Speaker 1: Gist and Private Parts Unknown, my podcast with Courtney Kosak

1094
01:03:09,680 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: about loving sex. Yeah yeah, let's fight fascism real quick, Yeah,

1095
01:03:18,000 --> 01:03:22,240
Speaker 1: real quick. Just for a second, just treat a couple

1096
01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:34,480
Speaker 1: of minutes. Yeah. Uh. Podcasts, Happy Trump, COVID day, no comment,

1097
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:44,360
Speaker 1: not a single comment was given. Good stuff, that's the podcast.

1098
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:49,680
Speaker 1: Sorry it was so depressing. Yeah, damn, thanks, I guess

1099
01:03:53,360 --> 01:04:00,160
Speaker 1: all right, well sorry, Sophia M.