Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and
Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing behavioral money tendencies that wreck us. Yeah, Juel,
Speaker 1: this episode, we are going to discuss these different behavioral
Speaker 1: tendencies that we tend to have for no other reason
Speaker 1: than because we're human, right, And these are tendencies that
Speaker 1: we have regardless of what the market is doing, whether
Speaker 1: it's a bowl market or if it's the fastest sinking
Speaker 1: bearer market we've seen in history. The better we are
Speaker 1: at identifying these behavioral tendencies, the more likely we are
Speaker 1: to be able to make better decisions that will have
Speaker 1: a positive impact on how we view and how we
Speaker 1: handle our money. Humans were fickle creatures. We do weird things.
Speaker 1: But yeah, knowing kind of what underlies the actions that
Speaker 1: we take is super helpful, especially when it comes to money, right, Maddie.
Speaker 1: That's right, man, all right. But before we get into that, man,
Speaker 1: I wanted to let you know I saw this interesting
Speaker 1: article on this website called Institutional Investor dot com, and
Speaker 1: it was talking about these Ivy League endowments, These big
Speaker 1: Ivy League schools have these private investment funds, and it
Speaker 1: was just kind of interesting to see that almost all
Speaker 1: of the Ivy League schools completely underperformed the market last year.
Speaker 1: So basically the return that these Ivy League schools got
Speaker 1: didn't keep up with just the standard SMP five index
Speaker 1: fund that we often tout on the show. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: not just the SMP five hundred, but it was waited
Speaker 1: in the SMP and the other was a bond index.
Speaker 1: And and what's so what's even more crazy there is
Speaker 1: to think that if they were comparing that against a
Speaker 1: total stock market fund, or even just one in that
Speaker 1: SMP FID fund, they would have underperformed. But even less,
Speaker 1: Like there was only one Ivy League school that I
Speaker 1: saw in there that outperformed the market, which was was Brown. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but otherwise every single Ivy League school, including Harvard and Princeton,
Speaker 1: like these fancy schools that have these massive endowment funds,
Speaker 1: which by the way, I looked at Harvard's and it's
Speaker 1: like thirty eight billion dollars, right, so much money, And
Speaker 1: so they've got these fancy investors that are trying to
Speaker 1: grow that money for the benefit of the school, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: They're they're investing money in private markets, in private equity,
Speaker 1: venture capital, all that fancy stuff, things that aren't open
Speaker 1: to everyday investors like you and me, And they're thinking
Speaker 1: that they're going to get outside returns because of their
Speaker 1: access to these private investments that nobody else can take
Speaker 1: part in, but they still underperform just the basic investments
Speaker 1: that you and I can easily take advantage that just
Speaker 1: you and me, but all of our listeners right as well.
Speaker 1: And this isn't to point out that the IVY Leagues
Speaker 1: are just really bad at investing, but it's just to
Speaker 1: point out how hard it is to beat the market,
Speaker 1: even with all of these sophisticated tactics, even with all
Speaker 1: the networks and resources that these investors have with these
Speaker 1: IVY League schools, that the best bet probably is just
Speaker 1: to stick that money in an SP five funded fund
Speaker 1: or total stock market fund. Yeah. I think there's a
Speaker 1: tendency for individual investors as they start to learn a
Speaker 1: little bit more, to get cute or to try to
Speaker 1: get into alternative investments that are touted online. Is potentially
Speaker 1: making you a higher return, you know, closer ten, twelve,
Speaker 1: fifteen percent on your money. But if these big wig
Speaker 1: investors who have billions of dollars at their disposal aren't
Speaker 1: able to keep up with the SMP five under just
Speaker 1: the the simple trajectory of the overall stock market, or
Speaker 1: even just a standard kind of sixty mix of stocks
Speaker 1: and bonds, then how can we, as individual investors who
Speaker 1: have day jobs and all these other things on our minds,
Speaker 1: how can we even come close to beating the market?
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, I mean, I don't manage an
Speaker 1: endowment fund for a living, right, Like, I've got other
Speaker 1: stuff to do. Yeah, exactly, And so I think it
Speaker 1: just goes to show that we as investors should probably
Speaker 1: keep it simple. We're gonna make better returns in a
Speaker 1: typical year, and at the same time, we're gonna be
Speaker 1: paying lower fees, and it's just gonna be easier on
Speaker 1: us at the same time. Yeah exactly. And like you said,
Speaker 1: on a typical year, this was from last year's results.
Speaker 1: And this isn't the first year that this has happened, right,
Speaker 1: This has happened many times, and so this isn't a
Speaker 1: one time thing. This is a pattern. Yeah. And I
Speaker 1: think even if, like let's say, the Ivy League schools
Speaker 1: crushed the stock market next year, I don't think it
Speaker 1: necessarily means that investing in private equities or investing in
Speaker 1: alternative ways is a better move. I think overall, we
Speaker 1: see the trends that the numbers bear out that the
Speaker 1: simpler investing methods are almost always the best way to go. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it'll be really interesting to see if these same
Speaker 1: numbers hold true for these endowment funds in an economic
Speaker 1: downturn as well, but for almost all of us. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the simpler the path, the better, simple path to wealth.
Speaker 1: Noil Collins would say, our good buddy, Jail Collins. That's right,
Speaker 1: all right, Matt, let's mention the beer that we're having
Speaker 1: on the show today. This one is called I d
Speaker 1: k f A. It's by Ellipses Brewing picked this one
Speaker 1: up when I was down in Orlando and brought it
Speaker 1: back in Crowler form for us to share on the
Speaker 1: show today. My friend, Yeah, this along with the one
Speaker 1: we had last week, which is I'm already pulled over,
Speaker 1: So pay that toll, Joel, I'm on it. I will
Speaker 1: get on it. No, I haven't. I'm going to Okay,
Speaker 1: do they have an online option to pay? No, that's
Speaker 1: the thing they don't. It's ridiculous. I have to mail
Speaker 1: in the check. That's it's lame, but you better do it.
Speaker 1: It's gonna have Our listeners are gonna hold you to
Speaker 1: that as well. And by the way, do you know
Speaker 1: where this comes from? I d k f A the
Speaker 1: name of this beer. No, not exactly. I remember as
Speaker 1: a kid from playing Doom. It's a it's a cheat code.
Speaker 1: It gives you, like I think it was, like, you
Speaker 1: get all the ideas, the keys and full armor. It's
Speaker 1: like a super nerdy gamer term. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't know what what it took for. But now
Speaker 1: how d k f A. All right, Well, let's get
Speaker 1: on the topic at hand. Today on the show, we're
Speaker 1: talking about behavioral money tendencies that wreck us. And I
Speaker 1: think we have to say up front that we're not
Speaker 1: trying to tell everybody that they're dumb. It's just that
Speaker 1: certain things are ingrained in how we are as human
Speaker 1: beings and how we approach the world. Right, so natural, Yeah,
Speaker 1: these these behavioral tendencies are not specific to just a
Speaker 1: few of us. There are things that we all experience
Speaker 1: and we all need to fight back against. Some of
Speaker 1: the hardest money mistakes to correct are the ones that
Speaker 1: we do habitually because we don't recognize those core behavioral
Speaker 1: problems that actually let us there. So in order to
Speaker 1: to break those money habits, it often means taking a
Speaker 1: step back and develop being some awareness for those behavioral
Speaker 1: issues that lead you there. For example, Matt, there's this
Speaker 1: study that was done of people that drink wine, and
Speaker 1: it turns out if you hand somebody glass of wine
Speaker 1: and you tell them the price associated with it, they
Speaker 1: automatically have an instinct for how good the wine is
Speaker 1: going to be. And if you lie to them and
Speaker 1: tell them that the wine costs more than it actually did,
Speaker 1: they assign higher value. They think that the wine was
Speaker 1: better than it actually was. So if I hand you
Speaker 1: a glass of wine and I say, man, this this,
Speaker 1: this is this is a twenty dollar glass of wine,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, oh man, this is this is
Speaker 1: really really good. But because that's the most we spent
Speaker 1: on wine is like twenty bucks glass. I would never
Speaker 1: spend twenty bucks on a glass of wine, So I thought,
Speaker 1: you're talking about bottles. I mean even that a little
Speaker 1: little rich from my blood. But you'll spend twenty bucks
Speaker 1: easily though on a bottle of beer, Yes I will. Well,
Speaker 1: that's the thing I mean, even aside from wine, like
Speaker 1: we did the same thing when it comes to beer,
Speaker 1: Like we get we get our hands on a twenty
Speaker 1: seven do a beer, which is rare, but occasionally we'll
Speaker 1: come across like a seven fifty million later bottle, which
Speaker 1: is the same size as a wine bottle traditionally, right,
Speaker 1: and if we know it's close to thirty bucks, like
Speaker 1: we're expecting a lot more out of that, and we
Speaker 1: kind of convince ourselves that it's going to be better.
Speaker 1: And typically that is because it is better, right, Like
Speaker 1: you try to sell some swell that's super price like
Speaker 1: that and it's not gonna last. That's gonna hurt the
Speaker 1: brewery's name when you do something like that. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I totally understand. It's honestly why I try to never
Speaker 1: look up the ratings of beers on untapped before I
Speaker 1: drink them, because I don't want to be swayed by
Speaker 1: the the star rating on there. I try to I'm
Speaker 1: very scientific, so I try to approach it very analytical,
Speaker 1: and I try to be objective about it, not subjective. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you want to come up with it in your mind
Speaker 1: before you see what other people said about exactly. I mean,
Speaker 1: that makes sense, but I think it is interesting though.
Speaker 1: That's just one of these tendencies. And we're gonna cover
Speaker 1: a lot today in the show, all these tendencies that
Speaker 1: we have that lead us down this path of making
Speaker 1: bad money decisions because of these kind of ingrained behavioral
Speaker 1: tendencies that we have. Yeah, those unseen behavioral tendencies can
Speaker 1: totally cost us lots of money and poor buying decisions
Speaker 1: and bad investing moves as well. That's why behavioral economics
Speaker 1: it's rapidly becoming a topic of risk, man, at least
Speaker 1: you and me, because we can't divorce our emotions from
Speaker 1: our decisions. It's really hard to do that. But the
Speaker 1: more that we are able to see the correlation between them,
Speaker 1: the more likely we are to be able to make
Speaker 1: better decisions, and that will have a positive effect on
Speaker 1: how we view and how we handle our money. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I kind of grew up, I would say, with a
Speaker 1: negative money attitude, just kind of a negative association towards
Speaker 1: money in general. And I think that stems from from
Speaker 1: a few different things that I encountered while I was
Speaker 1: growing up, and and because of that, I've kind of
Speaker 1: struggled to develop a positive association with money in my adulthood.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be super rich, but I do
Speaker 1: want to be well prepared for the future, and I
Speaker 1: want to have the freedom to choose the work that
Speaker 1: I want to do. I don't want to have ample
Speaker 1: time with my family and friends. So I had to
Speaker 1: work through these negative associations with money in order to
Speaker 1: realize that building wealth wasn't the bad thing, Like saving
Speaker 1: from my future isn't bad. Just because I had these
Speaker 1: negative associations with money growing up, I guess I kind
Speaker 1: of correlated having money with like the great to be
Speaker 1: lifestyle where people were just like drinking champagne every night,
Speaker 1: these fancy cars, fancy parties, and I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't have any interest in that. That sounds terrible.
Speaker 1: So I just don't want to accumulate money. And because
Speaker 1: of that, you know, saving from my future wasn't attractive
Speaker 1: to me. But it turns out, and then when you
Speaker 1: study things a little bit further, that the opposite is
Speaker 1: typically true of rich people. Right If if you read,
Speaker 1: for for example, the book The Millionaire next Door, you
Speaker 1: see that the way that people actually are able to
Speaker 1: amass some wealth is by living frugally, right, they drive
Speaker 1: older cars, they live in the same home for a
Speaker 1: long period of time. So I had this negative money
Speaker 1: association and that's something that I've had to work through,
Speaker 1: and so doing that has been really really helpful to
Speaker 1: help me develop a more positive association with money as
Speaker 1: opposed to kind of just that negative one that had
Speaker 1: been ingrained for all those years. It's cool to see too,
Speaker 1: that that frugal lifestyle can lead to wealth, right, Like
Speaker 1: that can lead to millions. It's not necessarily like the opposite.
Speaker 1: It's like, it's not like once you become a millionaire,
Speaker 1: then you can, you know, start living lavishly and kind
Speaker 1: of living the life. It's like, no, Like, the way
Speaker 1: I'm able to accumulate wealth is because I live frugally,
Speaker 1: and pattern of behavior I feel like carries on as well,
Speaker 1: like after someone might you know, have millions in the bank.
Speaker 1: That's why oftentimes those millionaires next door, like they drive
Speaker 1: used Ford Explorers. Yeah, I remember specifically that being one
Speaker 1: of the cars that a lot of them drove. It's like,
Speaker 1: why do they buy used water Explorers. They're like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, they're cheap, you know, they get it done,
Speaker 1: and it's often. Why uh, incredibly rich family often as
Speaker 1: they pass on that fortune to their kids, why doesn't
Speaker 1: last very long? Well? Yeah, oftentimes that frugal lifestyle isn't
Speaker 1: necessarily adopted by that younger generation. And when you weren't
Speaker 1: the one actually worked in order to accumulate that wealth.
Speaker 1: Easy come, easy go. Right there, there's kind of that
Speaker 1: factor as well. Well. I think I'm lucky enough to
Speaker 1: not have had any negative money attitudes. I guess growing
Speaker 1: up we talked about money like fairly often. Um, I
Speaker 1: just had negative attitudes towards other stuff like what peace
Speaker 1: and carrots, which I still don't like, by the way.
Speaker 1: Actually I like carrots okay, but pea's not my favorite.
Speaker 1: I specifically remember a standoff between me and my parents
Speaker 1: over green beans over eating one one green bean. Man.
Speaker 1: Green means are great. I love green means now, but
Speaker 1: I prove my point, I will say that my parents
Speaker 1: got the message. Well, I mean, I want to kind
Speaker 1: of continue talking about like negative attitudes though, right, because
Speaker 1: whatever your history with money has been in the past,
Speaker 1: it's important to step back and to consider that those
Speaker 1: attitudes and those views could be negatively affecting how you
Speaker 1: relate to money. Now, right, Like, when we underestimate our
Speaker 1: past like that, it can have a serious negative consequence
Speaker 1: on how we behave now. And there's negative views. They
Speaker 1: can look different depending on the individual. So, Joe, while
Speaker 1: you might have seen having tons of money as a
Speaker 1: big negative, others might see having like a modest amount
Speaker 1: of money as like the worst thing ever, right, and
Speaker 1: this might cause them to prioritize wealth too much. So
Speaker 1: it all depends on who you are and your life experiences. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: And all these behavioral tendencies that we're going to talk
Speaker 1: about all of us have seen at least in someone else,
Speaker 1: but in all likelihood we've struggled with it too. And
Speaker 1: so let's get to some of those and kind of
Speaker 1: how to combat our behavioral tendencies, the tendencies that tend
Speaker 1: to wreck us and our money. And we'll get to
Speaker 1: the right after the break. All right, man, we are
Speaker 1: back in the break and we're talking about these different
Speaker 1: behavioral money tendencies that wreck us. Uh. Let's first kind
Speaker 1: of touch on how we tend to make emotional money decisions,
Speaker 1: right like this pretty much plagues us. All we can
Speaker 1: easily think about some of those emotional bios on Amazon
Speaker 1: or maybe a night outce I cry every time I
Speaker 1: hit the bye button on Amazon? Is it that painful?
Speaker 1: Free to purchase anything? But let's go a level deeper, though,
Speaker 1: and cover some of these more nerdy behavioral economic terms,
Speaker 1: what they mean and how they can apply to your life.
Speaker 1: Let's first talk about the endowments effect. You know, we
Speaker 1: actually just talked about endowment funds. This is a little
Speaker 1: bit different, but basically, the endowment effect is when you
Speaker 1: place more value on the things that you have because
Speaker 1: you already own them. Right. So, for instance, like, if
Speaker 1: you're trying to get rid of some stuff, do you
Speaker 1: find yourself unwilling to start selling things you own on
Speaker 1: eBay in order to maybe pay off high interest credit
Speaker 1: card debt? That could be because we as hum tend
Speaker 1: to overvalue what we already have in our possessions, and
Speaker 1: so it's natural for us to to not want to
Speaker 1: part with those items because we do overestimate the actual value. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that quick example. I think if let's say, for instance,
Speaker 1: you were into baseball cards and you had a Kim
Speaker 1: Griffey Jr. Autographed rookie card, right, and it was worth
Speaker 1: a thousand bucks. I don't know how much that cards worth.
Speaker 1: I just guessing that sounds pretty generous. Okay, maybe it's
Speaker 1: worth five. Do you own this card? Because no, I
Speaker 1: guess I would explain why you say it's worth a
Speaker 1: thousand dollars. I don't because if I did, I'd have
Speaker 1: a thousand bucks my pie. I'd tell it. But so,
Speaker 1: my brother in law is getting into basketball cards right now,
Speaker 1: and he actually recently sold a card, a rookie card
Speaker 1: for like a new NBA player, I think, for like
Speaker 1: three thousand bucks on eBay. What's Yeah, so these cards
Speaker 1: are worth a lot of money, some of them. That
Speaker 1: is crazy. I didn't know there's that much. I guess inflation, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like when I was a kid, cards did not cost
Speaker 1: that much, right, Yeah, you go get a nice one
Speaker 1: for twenty bucks or but I mean we would just
Speaker 1: buy the packs since he was in there. But let's
Speaker 1: say you had a nice one in your possession, and
Speaker 1: you've got some high interest credit card debt too. Well,
Speaker 1: if you could esentially pay off your credit card by
Speaker 1: selling your kid Griffe Junior rookie card, well then that
Speaker 1: would make a whole lot of sense. But most people
Speaker 1: probably overvalue the card they already have in their their possession.
Speaker 1: Would you go out, let's say you didn't have the
Speaker 1: card and pay a thousand dollars at the card shop
Speaker 1: in order to buy it while you're in credit card debt?
Speaker 1: No way, Probably not. That's the endowment effect. That's essentially
Speaker 1: you assigning more value to the card because you already
Speaker 1: have it, then you should because you wouldn't go out
Speaker 1: there and buy that same card today for that amount
Speaker 1: of money. Yeah. I think this can also be extended
Speaker 1: to things like checking accounts and savings accounts that we have.
Speaker 1: In particular, like I'm thinking about credit cards that you've
Speaker 1: had around for a long time and you have this
Speaker 1: sort of emotional attachment to it, right and guess what,
Speaker 1: maybe it's got an annual fee and you receive like
Speaker 1: next to no benefits from this dumb card. I think
Speaker 1: the same thing could apply to checking accounts. A lot
Speaker 1: of people still have their checking accounts with big banks,
Speaker 1: and they have monthly fees if they don't meet a
Speaker 1: certain threshold of a balance or certain transactions. Right. And
Speaker 1: so these credit cards or these checking accounts are costing
Speaker 1: us money if we have them, And the reason that
Speaker 1: we're hanging onto them is because we've always had them
Speaker 1: like these are you know, we have this emotional attachment
Speaker 1: to them where we're over assigning the amount of value
Speaker 1: that these accounts that these cards bring us when we
Speaker 1: know that if we were going to open up a
Speaker 1: new account today that we would definitely not open up
Speaker 1: those accounts. Now, yeah, there's a little bit of inertia
Speaker 1: bias in there, and oh yeah, yeah, it's it's hard
Speaker 1: to do something new like that when when we've always
Speaker 1: been doing this other thing for years. Yeah, Matt, Let's
Speaker 1: talk about another emotional behavioral money tendency that that we
Speaker 1: sometimes make, and that's the sunk cost fallacy. And before
Speaker 1: we get to the fallacy, let's kind of define what
Speaker 1: sunk costs are. That is, essentially any past cost that
Speaker 1: has already been paid and cannot be recovered. So, for example,
Speaker 1: concert tickets are the perfect illustration the price you paid
Speaker 1: for the tickets. Well, there are sunk costs, but if
Speaker 1: the money you've already paid is causing you to do
Speaker 1: something that's making you worse off or more unhappy, then
Speaker 1: you fallen prey to the sunk cost fallacy. So to
Speaker 1: the concert tickets, let's say you get sick and it
Speaker 1: would be a miserable time if you went to that concert,
Speaker 1: but you go anyway just to get your money's worth.
Speaker 1: You just took line and sinker fell for that stunt
Speaker 1: cost fallacy. Yeah. A lot of times folks will refer
Speaker 1: to this as like throwing good money after bad, right,
Speaker 1: because you're you're trying to essentially like redeem the situation
Speaker 1: by throwing more money at that problem, when in fact
Speaker 1: it's just making you worse off. Man. I think of
Speaker 1: an example in our life where I think we came
Speaker 1: really close to falling into the stunt cost fallacy. This
Speaker 1: is when we were at our old house, Kate and
Speaker 1: I and our family was growing. I was working from home,
Speaker 1: and our house wasn't working for us right. We knew
Speaker 1: that we needed to renovate and make the house bigger,
Speaker 1: and so we were. We had planned out this massive
Speaker 1: renovation and it was going to cost us a lot
Speaker 1: of money. But we'd kind of fallen in love with
Speaker 1: the idea of renovating it because we designed it, We'd
Speaker 1: worked with architects, and we had this awesome plan was
Speaker 1: going to make a ton of sense. And deep down
Speaker 1: to side, I think we also knew that it wasn't
Speaker 1: necessarily going to fix some of the underlying issues with
Speaker 1: the house, Like it was gonna make it bigger, but
Speaker 1: there is gonna be some awkwardness to it, right, And
Speaker 1: so like the problem there is had we done that
Speaker 1: because we already had the house. Obviously this is a
Speaker 1: little bit related to the endowment effect because we already
Speaker 1: had the house as well. But we already paid a
Speaker 1: lot of money for that house, and we're looking to
Speaker 1: dump a lot more money into it in order to
Speaker 1: make it work moving forward. But I think how we
Speaker 1: continue to go down that path, I think we definitely
Speaker 1: would have fallen victim to some cost fallacy. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think let's give a couple more examples that people can
Speaker 1: also relate to. I think one is that if you
Speaker 1: own a car and you realize that you have these
Speaker 1: other debts you need to take care of, but you're
Speaker 1: gonna lose money by selling that car your upside down
Speaker 1: on it. Let's say, well, it might still make sense
Speaker 1: to sell that car and and take that loss in
Speaker 1: order to reduce your costs that you can put more
Speaker 1: of your money towards those debt payments. But it's so
Speaker 1: hard to actually do because we're emotionally tied to the
Speaker 1: fact that we're gonna quote unquote lose money on that
Speaker 1: one decision, and if we can think about the larger,
Speaker 1: overall picture, it's really helpful so that we don't fall
Speaker 1: prey to that sun cost fallacy on that one item. Dude,
Speaker 1: totally right, Like looking at that big picture can completely
Speaker 1: put things in the right perspective. Also, I think about
Speaker 1: relationships a little bit too, Like this is maybe an
Speaker 1: example that's not money related, but there might be an
Speaker 1: individual who's in a romantic relationship, which is why we're friends,
Speaker 1: still in some cost fallacy. You're like, I've too much. Well,
Speaker 1: I guess you do see it sometimes in like plutonic relationships,
Speaker 1: but I'm thinking about romantic relationships right, Like, if someone's
Speaker 1: in a romantic relationship and they know it's not going anywhere,
Speaker 1: or they it's not going where they want it to go,
Speaker 1: a lot of times people won't cut their losses and
Speaker 1: they won't end that relationship because they have spent so
Speaker 1: much time, so much energy. You know, it's like, man,
Speaker 1: they've already met my parents, Like like that's sort of
Speaker 1: the last hurdle of I don't want to admit defeat now,
Speaker 1: and so because of that, folks will continue to pour
Speaker 1: into that relationship when you know, in the end, they
Speaker 1: know that it's not going anywhere and they just need
Speaker 1: to kind of face the facts. And I don't want to.
Speaker 1: I don't want to admit that I wasted three years
Speaker 1: with this person whatever, like a lot of time, which
Speaker 1: is so hard to do. Like I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: that's easy to do, but I think, you know, big picture,
Speaker 1: like looking at the grand scheme of your life, that's
Speaker 1: the right thing to do. Yeah, well, we're not really
Speaker 1: a relationship advice podcast, but not yet. That's our spinoff
Speaker 1: podcast coming soon, right, Um, I don't think our wives
Speaker 1: would listen to that. No, No, they're not buying into
Speaker 1: us having any sort of relational wisdom at all. Like
Speaker 1: what's like, money is one thing, but relationship advice no way.
Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about some more emotional money tendencies
Speaker 1: based on kind of the behavioral things that are ingrained
Speaker 1: in us. And one of these behavioral tendencies is called
Speaker 1: transaction utility, and essentially that's buying stuff just because it
Speaker 1: looks like it's on sale. And retailers have been doing
Speaker 1: a fantastic job at making this a really difficult one
Speaker 1: for us to combat. For years now, they're posting often silly,
Speaker 1: fake ms rps to make us think that we're getting
Speaker 1: an incredible deal. My wife the other day actually kind
Speaker 1: of fell prey to this. She bought a bathing suit
Speaker 1: online and it was twenty six dollars, which is a
Speaker 1: decent price for bathing suit. I think, I don't know,
Speaker 1: and it's like a great price, yeah, but the m
Speaker 1: s r P was ninety dollars when clearly, unless you
Speaker 1: got a great deal to right, but clearly this bathing
Speaker 1: suit never cost ninety dollars. And the way that you
Speaker 1: can see that never know. By the way, on a
Speaker 1: lot of these online sites are on a site like
Speaker 1: Amazon is using like the honey plug in, you can tell, okay,
Speaker 1: this suggested retail price is not reality because you can
Speaker 1: see what the price has been over the last thirty days,
Speaker 1: and if the m s r piece has ninet but
Speaker 1: the price is never broken forty two, then you realize
Speaker 1: it's just this fake price to make you feel like
Speaker 1: you're getting a better deal. And especially when we're encountering
Speaker 1: all these different online sellers from across the world. Now,
Speaker 1: it's a really hard thing to keep track of what
Speaker 1: the actual price should be on this item and how
Speaker 1: good of a deal we're getting. And so this is
Speaker 1: something that we're encountering more and more and it's becoming
Speaker 1: harder and harder to tell whether we're getting a good price. So, Matt,
Speaker 1: how how can we combat transaction utility and actually make
Speaker 1: purchases not just based on the quote unquote sale price
Speaker 1: that we're seeing. Well, Joel, thank you for asking. I
Speaker 1: think what we need to do is just not worry
Speaker 1: about the actual percentage off, right, Like we don't need
Speaker 1: to look at that that red price. A lot of
Speaker 1: times they put in red so it stands out so
Speaker 1: it pops. Don't worry about that. Just ask yourself the question,
Speaker 1: like what is this worth to you? And by the way,
Speaker 1: like when you've identified what the actual dollar amount that
Speaker 1: you would pay for something, that's actually called the acquisition value,
Speaker 1: that's the true price that you'd be willing to pay.
Speaker 1: And that's a rational way it's approach price, right, Whereas
Speaker 1: transaction utility that appeals more to the emotions, right, Like
Speaker 1: you either have positive transaction utility, which is like where
Speaker 1: you feel like you're getting a good deal, or you
Speaker 1: have negative transaction utility where you kind of feel like
Speaker 1: you're getting ripped off. Um. It has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with what you would be willing to actually pay, but
Speaker 1: it plays more off of sort of the emotions behind
Speaker 1: what it feels like when you are making that purchase. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: I think we're more susceptible to transaction utility when we
Speaker 1: become deal based shoppers as opposed to shopping for things
Speaker 1: based on our needs or are thoroughly thought out once.
Speaker 1: And I think I've talked about this on the show before.
Speaker 1: I know this from expersitional experiences. I was a deal
Speaker 1: based shopper for a long time, and I would buy
Speaker 1: things based on how cheap they were, essentially getting a
Speaker 1: pair of jeans for ten or twelve or fourteen bucks.
Speaker 1: Would would like get my ajournaline pumping, and I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I scored a great deal, and then I get them
Speaker 1: in the mail. I forgot that I ordered them, and
Speaker 1: then I didn't really end up liking them anyway. Fit
Speaker 1: kind of weird. Yeah, Like I shouldn't have gotten these
Speaker 1: genes off of WOOT, Like would off I have new
Speaker 1: they still happen. I think, yeah, we'd still around. Oh man,
Speaker 1: I feel like they're huge, like five ten years ago
Speaker 1: owned by Amazon. Now actually are they really? Yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess that's why they're still around. But yeah, I know
Speaker 1: that's totally how I shot. And it was all based
Speaker 1: on kind of the percentage off and how good of
Speaker 1: a deal I thought I was getting. But really, it's
Speaker 1: not a great deal if it's something that you're not
Speaker 1: going to use, are not going to be happy with.
Speaker 1: And so, yeah, combating transaction utility thinking about what this
Speaker 1: item is worth to you and then taking some time
Speaker 1: to make that decision as opposed to clicking to purchase
Speaker 1: right away, that can really really help us combat that
Speaker 1: negative money emotion that so easily lets us down. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this is why outlet malls are so popular, man, Like,
Speaker 1: everybody wants to snag what they perceived to be a
Speaker 1: fantastic deal, and when you feel like you're paying less
Speaker 1: than what you should, this is an example of that
Speaker 1: positive transaction utility. Like you, you also see this play
Speaker 1: out in retail categories of infrequently purchased items like mattresses
Speaker 1: and cars as well. Most customers like they won't notice
Speaker 1: how there always happens to be a sale quote unquote
Speaker 1: sale going on right, and so because of that, you know,
Speaker 1: when they are in the market to buy and I
Speaker 1: don't like that, they're going to be more willing to
Speaker 1: spend compared to you if there wasn't a sale going
Speaker 1: on year round. I'm looking at you, old nabef like
Speaker 1: forty weeks a year. I mean, it's that kind of thing.
Speaker 1: It's that kind of mentality that leads us to shopping
Speaker 1: more based on sale prices when the sale is pretty
Speaker 1: much always going on. It's just dirt cheap stuff, year
Speaker 1: round sale. You know. Actually, I saw another example to
Speaker 1: where Macy's and j. C. Penny they had decided to
Speaker 1: kind of go away from that model, like they had
Speaker 1: eliminated the m s r P the manufacturers suggested retail price,
Speaker 1: and they eliminated sales uh, and they eliminated like the
Speaker 1: instead they just rounded up. They're like, you know what,
Speaker 1: forget all that, We're just gonna go thirty bucks. And
Speaker 1: it costs them a ton of money. It was a
Speaker 1: huge disaster for them. And so that was an example
Speaker 1: that was evidence of the power of this transaction utility
Speaker 1: when it comes to folks looking for a deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're playing into the fact that that's what we want.
Speaker 1: At our core is we want to be bargain hunters
Speaker 1: and we want something off. We want to feel like
Speaker 1: we scored a deal, even if it's not the deal.
Speaker 1: But because it's so powerful for the bottom line for
Speaker 1: these retailers, it's important for us to know that that's
Speaker 1: what they're doing so that we can be aware of
Speaker 1: our actions as we go into that scenario. Right as
Speaker 1: we go into a shopping mall, which I don't know
Speaker 1: that many people do that anymore, or we're shopping online,
Speaker 1: we're ever it is. We have to know that tendency
Speaker 1: and know that that's how retailers are trying to get us,
Speaker 1: and man, we need to be savvy shoppers. Uh, let's
Speaker 1: kind of talk about now a positive behavior technique that
Speaker 1: we can implement, and that is proper framing. This can
Speaker 1: be immensely helpful because it can lead us to the
Speaker 1: correct action that we need to take. So for example, um,
Speaker 1: it's it's much easier for us to save five bucks
Speaker 1: a day than it is to say we're going to
Speaker 1: save a d fifty dollars every single month. Right, it's
Speaker 1: the same overall amount of money, but the way you
Speaker 1: think about it makes all the difference in the world. Um. However,
Speaker 1: on the flip side, the way things are framed can
Speaker 1: also lead you to make a poor decision too. It's
Speaker 1: a double edged sword. So for example, if you're saving
Speaker 1: four retirements, you might be saying yourself, but it's you know,
Speaker 1: this is forty five years away. I don't need to
Speaker 1: worry about that now. That's a poor way of thinking
Speaker 1: about it, because you know, like we do need to
Speaker 1: start saving and start worrying about that now. And so instead,
Speaker 1: the proper way to think about it is, man, one
Speaker 1: million dollars, Like, that's gonna be a lot of money
Speaker 1: for me to save up for retirement. Luckily, I can
Speaker 1: start saving for that now. We want to encourage folks
Speaker 1: to adopt helpful framing that would allow you to reach
Speaker 1: your financial goals. Yeah. The great thing is if you
Speaker 1: start now, you have to save way less. That's another
Speaker 1: way to frame it. Right, When you look at the
Speaker 1: numbers of what you need to save, if you start
Speaker 1: at age fifty versus age thirty, it's dramatically different. So
Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I can put away two or fifty
Speaker 1: bucks a month, but if you wait till age fifty,
Speaker 1: you're gonna be talking about two months exactly seriously, And
Speaker 1: that's because of compound interest. Yeah. Uh so framing yes
Speaker 1: is hugely helpful, Matt. You know, I read this article
Speaker 1: recently by Dan Egan, who's a behavioral economics expert, and
Speaker 1: he wrote about diverting our negative emotional energy into positive
Speaker 1: behavioral action. And I love the picture that he gave
Speaker 1: of martial arts and how oftentimes in a lot of
Speaker 1: martial arts moves, you're not necessarily none chucking somebody in
Speaker 1: the face. Like, what you're doing is you're diverting their
Speaker 1: energy into a move that benefits you. Isn't that the
Speaker 1: core of like judo or like jiu jitsu? Yeah? I
Speaker 1: think it's jujitsu, right. You're using the other person's energy momentum. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and you're turning it into a power play for yourself.
Speaker 1: And I think as you do that, you say, suck it.
Speaker 1: That's what I do at Are you all right? Did
Speaker 1: you ever do martial arts as a kid or as
Speaker 1: an adult? I did. I did like karate like one
Speaker 1: year as a kid, But everybody did karate for like
Speaker 1: one year as a kid. Actually, like looking back. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I did Kredi for a year or
Speaker 1: if my mom just bought me like a white karate
Speaker 1: outfit just so I can pretend while I watched reruns
Speaker 1: of kredit Kid on TBS. Totally man, But I think
Speaker 1: it's helpful to think about some of our our money
Speaker 1: mistakes like this. We can actually use the momentum from
Speaker 1: what we've learned from poor financial decisions to help us
Speaker 1: rebound into putting ourselves into a much stronger financial position. So,
Speaker 1: for example, you might have a significant amount of student
Speaker 1: loan debt or tons of credit card debt that forces
Speaker 1: you to learn how to finally handle your money well.
Speaker 1: You might have kind of pinned yourself in a corner,
Speaker 1: but because of that, you'll end up in a much
Speaker 1: better financial position down the road when you've got that
Speaker 1: debt paid off. Now you can use that money to
Speaker 1: do positive things, save and invest and think about your
Speaker 1: future goals. And I think Matt sometimes that framing right
Speaker 1: and using that negative behavioral action to influence your future
Speaker 1: positive moves that can make a huge difference between attacking
Speaker 1: a problem well and actually paying that debt off or
Speaker 1: kind of floundering for a long period of time just
Speaker 1: kind of being bummed about the situation that you're in. Sure, man,
Speaker 1: that's a classic example of taking lemons and making lemonade. Right.
Speaker 1: So the other thing, too is as you're working to
Speaker 1: frame things properly in a in a way that you
Speaker 1: can find helpful to your goals, make sure that you
Speaker 1: are aware of recency bias. That's when your most recent experience,
Speaker 1: whether you know that experience is good or whether that
Speaker 1: experience is bad, but if you let that experience kind
Speaker 1: of dominate your thinking right like, it will dictate your
Speaker 1: viewpoint to a large extent. So, for example, these mostly
Speaker 1: positive return is that we've experienced in the stock market
Speaker 1: over the past ten years, over the last decade, that
Speaker 1: might cause some investors to make overly risky moves where
Speaker 1: they're maybe they're picking individual stocks, they're trying to hack
Speaker 1: the stock market. That can be a bad move. And
Speaker 1: then more recently, the coronavirus scared like that might cause
Speaker 1: you to be overly conservative and not invest at all.
Speaker 1: That is also a bad move. But what we need
Speaker 1: to do instead is to make sure that we're keeping
Speaker 1: the facts forefront in our minds to make sure that
Speaker 1: we are making informed decisions. Now you're seeing someone's profile
Speaker 1: pick where they basically edit a group of other people
Speaker 1: out of their pictures so it's just them because it
Speaker 1: was a really good picture of them in that picture
Speaker 1: with other people always look so awkward. It does, It does.
Speaker 1: That's what I think of though, when I think about framing, right,
Speaker 1: it's almost like they they've cut everything else out of
Speaker 1: the picture to build a zoom in on the awesome
Speaker 1: picture that they were able to take that day and
Speaker 1: cut everybody else who wasn't looking that good out of it,
Speaker 1: and proper framing puts everybody else back in the picture.
Speaker 1: It zooms out a little bit. It looks at the
Speaker 1: longer timeline, let's say, of kind of stock performance over
Speaker 1: a hundred years as opposed to over the last five,
Speaker 1: six or ten. It helps us get a better idea
Speaker 1: of what's actually happening as opposed to just our most
Speaker 1: recent interactions with it. Yeah, man, it's definitely that's a
Speaker 1: way for us to kind of fight these negative behaviors.
Speaker 1: And we'll cover a couple more ways that we can
Speaker 1: battle these tendencies right after the break, all right, that
Speaker 1: we'll back from the break. We're talking about behavioral money
Speaker 1: tendencies that wreck us. And let's get to the next
Speaker 1: behavioral issue that I think has a major impact. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna call this the Pinky in the Brain effect. Don't
Speaker 1: nobody else has called it that. This is my does
Speaker 1: the original take. This is the scholarly term that I'm
Speaker 1: giving to over confidence. Of all, you're gonna need to
Speaker 1: explain it because I'm maybe watched Pink in the Brain
Speaker 1: like once. I mustly spent my time watching like Inspector
Speaker 1: Gadget because he was super technical. Obviously I'm into that.
Speaker 1: So Peaky of the Brain was these two rodents that
Speaker 1: tried to take over the world every night and it
Speaker 1: was never gonna happen. They never got close, but they
Speaker 1: were pretty confident they're gonna be able to make it happen.
Speaker 1: So that's why I'm as signing. And It's been a
Speaker 1: long time since I've seen Pinky of the Brain, but
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm going with it. So like it, over
Speaker 1: confidence is a behavioral issue that we have to wrestle with.
Speaker 1: One or two. Great money moves doesn't necessarily make us
Speaker 1: a genius, and it can lead to a willingness to
Speaker 1: take risks that we shouldn't because our confidence level sores. So,
Speaker 1: for example, you might have crushed it buying your first
Speaker 1: rental property, but the market it's always changing, and no
Speaker 1: two houses are the same either. You might have bought
Speaker 1: your house when the market was great, So be aware
Speaker 1: of that tendency to be overconfident and have a check
Speaker 1: and balance the system in order to help you make
Speaker 1: a wise decision. You might have bought in this killer market, Matt,
Speaker 1: where let's say in two ten it was pretty easy
Speaker 1: to buy an affordable house that was going to make
Speaker 1: a good rental house, and in two twenty, you know what,
Speaker 1: the numbers are harder to come by. So just because
Speaker 1: you were able to make a good decision a while
Speaker 1: ago doesn't necessarily mean your genius at it and that
Speaker 1: you can have just an insane amount of confidence going forward. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that over confidence that can come oftentimes before the fall,
Speaker 1: before you make those many mistakes. Right, But once we
Speaker 1: have messed up and made those mistakes, we want to
Speaker 1: make sure that we learn from our mistakes. That is paramount, right,
Speaker 1: Like that is so important when it comes to growing
Speaker 1: and making better decisions in the future. But you know what, man,
Speaker 1: that doesn't always happen. Sometimes we don't learn from our mistakes,
Speaker 1: and some or or it takes a couple of tries. Right.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons that we may not learn from
Speaker 1: our mistakes is because of confirmation bias. Uh. That is
Speaker 1: the term I think that's often most associated with an
Speaker 1: unwillingness to learn, and that's obviously when we look for
Speaker 1: facts that back us up instead of taking in all
Speaker 1: of the information. I'm thinking about if somebody is a
Speaker 1: devout Fox News follower or seen in follower, right, like
Speaker 1: the have their angle that they like to spend on
Speaker 1: the news, and so if you're only receiving your information
Speaker 1: from sources that back up your pre existing beliefs, then
Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to learn much about the
Speaker 1: world or those around you. When we only turn to
Speaker 1: these sources that back up our intuition, makes us feel
Speaker 1: like that we are making an informed decision, but really
Speaker 1: we've likely sidestepped other information that would have helped us
Speaker 1: to make an even better decision. Yeah. Man, when you
Speaker 1: look at the headlines, no matter what economic cycle you're in,
Speaker 1: there's always somebody predicting a boom in the economy, and
Speaker 1: there's always somebody predicting a bust, and they're always outsized
Speaker 1: compared to what normally happens. Right recently, Tesla was hitting
Speaker 1: kind of some some big time highs in the stock market,
Speaker 1: and people are saying that it was gonna triple in
Speaker 1: price in the next year, and other people were saying, no, no,
Speaker 1: no, no no, it's going to be devalued by by two thirds.
Speaker 1: And so everybody's got this prognostication and the reality often
Speaker 1: lies somewhere way closer to the middle. So if we're
Speaker 1: only looking for these sources that are going to confirm
Speaker 1: what we believe while they're out there, you're gonna be
Speaker 1: able to find them. But it doesn't necessarily mean that
Speaker 1: you're gonna have an informed decision. It can lead to
Speaker 1: over confidence. And it's definitely true that if we go
Speaker 1: the confirmation biased route, it's gonna be much harder for
Speaker 1: us to learn from our money mistakes. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: so the solution or like maybe the antidote to confirmation
Speaker 1: biasedal is just to make sure that you're getting the
Speaker 1: right information right. Like this isn't necessarily a groundbreaking tactic,
Speaker 1: but that's something that we so often fail to do.
Speaker 1: It's really important for us to play devil's advocate. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, ask yourself, what if the purchase you really
Speaker 1: want to make is actually a terrible decision, Like, think
Speaker 1: through what that would look like, kind of put yourself
Speaker 1: on the other side of that equation. Make a list
Speaker 1: of pros and cons before you go for it. Not
Speaker 1: just the list of pros like that's obviously what you're
Speaker 1: gonna be thinking about. You're gonna think about how this
Speaker 1: decision or how this purchase, you know, how is this
Speaker 1: gonna make my life better? It's gonna allow me to
Speaker 1: do this, this, and this, But think about the cons,
Speaker 1: think about the drawbacks as well, and that can help
Speaker 1: you to make a better informed decision. Taking stock of
Speaker 1: all sides of that decision before pouncing can help you
Speaker 1: to make more rational and more objective decisions. Yeah, I agree, Matt.
Speaker 1: And and and also consider listening to someone who you vehemently
Speaker 1: disagree with. I think sometimes times hearing the opposing viewpoint,
Speaker 1: hearing the other side can actually help lead you to,
Speaker 1: in a healthy way, question what it is that you
Speaker 1: believe or that the side that you've come down on.
Speaker 1: And another reason, Matt, that I think that we fail
Speaker 1: to learn from our money mistakes consistently is an unwillingness
Speaker 1: to seek help. Sometimes we have a tendency to go
Speaker 1: it alone. Sometimes we lack crucial information, and yet we
Speaker 1: still refuse to tap resources that can help pull us
Speaker 1: out of our money mess. Right listening to a podcast
Speaker 1: like how the Money is a start for sure, but
Speaker 1: don't be afraid to dig deeper. Are you in lots
Speaker 1: of debt? Well, outside help could help you progress more quickly,
Speaker 1: Yet you might be stubborn insisting that you have to
Speaker 1: do it on your own. So, for example, NFCC, we've
Speaker 1: talked about that before on the show, the National Foundation
Speaker 1: for Credit Counseling. If you go to NFCC dot org,
Speaker 1: there are affiliate chapters all across the country where you
Speaker 1: can get free help to create a budget or to
Speaker 1: get out of debt free. Have we talked about how
Speaker 1: much we love free things before? Joe Preece us the best?
Speaker 1: But yeah, I think, Matt, we do kind of live
Speaker 1: in an individualistic society, and it's easier to think that
Speaker 1: we have to go it alone. But when you step
Speaker 1: back and lies their resources at our disposal, there are
Speaker 1: people that are willing to help. And just like they say, right,
Speaker 1: it takes a village to to raise a kid. It's
Speaker 1: helpful if you have other input. If it's helpful if
Speaker 1: you have more hands on deck. The same thing is
Speaker 1: true with helping you think through and solve money issues.
Speaker 1: It's gonna take a lot longer if you don't learn
Speaker 1: from the wisdom of others and you're not willing to
Speaker 1: kind of include other people in that process. Yeah. One
Speaker 1: of the ways you can include others in that process
Speaker 1: and include them in your life is by creating community, right,
Speaker 1: Like when you can have people who you talk with
Speaker 1: about money, like that is so crucial, you know, it's
Speaker 1: so important to be able to bounce ideas off of
Speaker 1: your friends or maybe a partner who has also interested
Speaker 1: in money and who have similar financial in life goals
Speaker 1: as well, Like this can be such a huge help. Joel,
Speaker 1: our friendship, you and me man, Like we've talked about
Speaker 1: this many times before, how our friendship has helped both
Speaker 1: of us to financially be in a better position, Like
Speaker 1: we have both made better decisions regarding our money, you know,
Speaker 1: when it comes to saving and investing, but also to
Speaker 1: like not even on the nerdier you know, super frugal
Speaker 1: side of things, but like I think times we encourage
Speaker 1: each other to spend money in ways that matter to
Speaker 1: us as well, like we're able to encourage each other
Speaker 1: to live that balanced life where we're you know, we're
Speaker 1: certainly focusing and talking about the different goals that we
Speaker 1: you know, we each share for our families, but you
Speaker 1: know I are both talking about just ways that we
Speaker 1: are making sure that we're living our life according to
Speaker 1: our different values. Yeah, man, I agree, man, our friendship
Speaker 1: has been been huge and helping me think about money well,
Speaker 1: helping me think about how I spend money and actually
Speaker 1: thinking about it more positively. And I think too, you know,
Speaker 1: my marriage has been a big part of this. Emily
Speaker 1: has helped me think through, you know, my issues with money,
Speaker 1: my tendencies. Like I mentioned at the beginning of the show,
Speaker 1: it'll be a great gaspy. You don't want to be
Speaker 1: richie rich, but I don't want to have those negative
Speaker 1: associations either, And so I think we've been able to
Speaker 1: positively together develop a better approach towards money that feels
Speaker 1: a lot healthier. Yeah, man, relationships are so important and
Speaker 1: we know as well though that not everyone like right now,
Speaker 1: as you're listening to this has someone in their life
Speaker 1: where they can just start talking about investing or paying
Speaker 1: off their debts. And and for those folks, we would
Speaker 1: recommend checking out our Facebook group. If you get a
Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, if you just head over there and
Speaker 1: search how the Money, you'll you'll find our page. But
Speaker 1: then you also find our group. We would appreciate a
Speaker 1: like on the page, sure, but really what we want
Speaker 1: you to do is join the group. That is where
Speaker 1: all the helpful conversation is going on. That's where members
Speaker 1: are encouraging each other, pointing each other to helpful resources,
Speaker 1: answering each other's questions. Like there's just a robust conversation
Speaker 1: going on there. And I love seeing the online community
Speaker 1: thrive like that and seeing folks point each other to
Speaker 1: make better financial decisions. Yeah, it really has become a
Speaker 1: place where nine percent of everything on there is just
Speaker 1: hyper encouraging and really helpful. At the same time, I agree,
Speaker 1: our listeners are the people who make up that Facebook
Speaker 1: and we have the best listeners because it shows it's
Speaker 1: evidenced every day in the Facebook group and how they
Speaker 1: help each other out. And Man, I think as behavioral
Speaker 1: economics grows as a field, will have the increased ability
Speaker 1: to take a peek behind the curtain of how we
Speaker 1: work internally, and hopefully to be able to make better
Speaker 1: decisions based on what we see. These conclusions are already
Speaker 1: making differences in how businesses function and how public policy
Speaker 1: gets made. Even too. We didn't really touch on that
Speaker 1: much in this episode, but awareness for us as individuals
Speaker 1: is at least half the battle. Being tipped off to
Speaker 1: the irrational ways that we approach money can help us
Speaker 1: change things so that we can make better decisions in
Speaker 1: the future. I love the field of behavioral economics amount
Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating. Humans are odd and interesting creatures
Speaker 1: and we have all these things that we're susceptible to.
Speaker 1: But I'm glad we were able to cover kind of
Speaker 1: some of those behavioral tendencies that can wreck us and
Speaker 1: wreck our money on this episode because they are important
Speaker 1: things to be aware of. And we don't use the
Speaker 1: word wreck all that awesome, except you know, when we're
Speaker 1: talking about like a car accident or wreck, it makes
Speaker 1: me think of wreck it Ralph, which I actually watched
Speaker 1: recently with my with my kiddos. Have you seen that
Speaker 1: one dude that's one of my favorite one. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was surprisingly great. Like I pulled up the Rotten Tomatos
Speaker 1: reviews on and I was like, okay, this is you know,
Speaker 1: I try to watch the ones where I'm like, those
Speaker 1: are actually a good story going on, because a lot
Speaker 1: of the kid movies can be kind of weird. Like
Speaker 1: I'm just saying. I'm just saying, like there's a few
Speaker 1: that I've watched. Round was like, seriously, this is so weird.
Speaker 1: I don't want to waste my time watching this record
Speaker 1: Ralph so good positive message is a lot of fun,
Speaker 1: like a lot of nostalogy going on there too. Yeah, man,
Speaker 1: I think we can highly wreck man. Both of the
Speaker 1: Record Ralph movies very very good. I mean it's not
Speaker 1: like I watched them like by myself either. I watch
Speaker 1: them all like kids. Just let me know in case
Speaker 1: anyone was thinking that that's what I do with my
Speaker 1: free time is watch cartoons by myself. No, not quite.
Speaker 1: That's like the second car you're like pinking in the
Speaker 1: brain reference as well. So yeah, I was just sitting
Speaker 1: at home watching Nickelodeon or whatever I did. I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to get inspiration for the show. Okay, but all right, Matt,
Speaker 1: let's get back to the beer that we had on
Speaker 1: the show today. This one was called I d KFE
Speaker 1: by Ellipsis Brewing and I picked this I p a
Speaker 1: up when I was in Orlando. What do you think
Speaker 1: this beer, buddy? Yeah, man, this is one that you
Speaker 1: picked up. So another big things to you for for
Speaker 1: picking this one up while you were down there checking
Speaker 1: out Disney with the in laws with the family. I
Speaker 1: really dug this beer, dude. I was a little concerned,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you. We're drinking this one out
Speaker 1: of a crowler, which is uh, basically think of a
Speaker 1: giant can. It's like a little mini oil drum. Basically,
Speaker 1: it's like giant and crowler. By the way, it's it's
Speaker 1: a it's a word smash with can and growler, and
Speaker 1: so it's like a thirty two ounce can and they
Speaker 1: fill it on the spot there with the draft. You
Speaker 1: know that they would feel your pine class with when
Speaker 1: you're there drinking in person, I will say this is
Speaker 1: really good. I've really enjoyed this one. It tastes really fresh,
Speaker 1: even though it's you know, a couple of weeks old.
Speaker 1: But I really enjoyed it. It It was juicy, it had
Speaker 1: that dank copy noess going on, while at the same
Speaker 1: time not being too bitter. Like you mentioned, this is
Speaker 1: a New England style I p A, but it's not,
Speaker 1: you know, completely milky like sometimes some of these doing
Speaker 1: the I pas like you can't even see through it all.
Speaker 1: Like this one has a little bit of opacity going on.
Speaker 1: So it's like a nice blend between the traditional I
Speaker 1: p A with that New England kind of dankness going on.
Speaker 1: And yeah, really easy to drink. Really enjoy this one, buddy, opacity,
Speaker 1: I like it. The opacity is a photoshop term from
Speaker 1: my graphic design days, so you adjust the opacity there
Speaker 1: with the different layers to you know, make things more
Speaker 1: or less invisible. Gotcha, Okay, And Ellipsis adjusted it to
Speaker 1: where it wasn't too open. Yeah, man, this was great,
Speaker 1: and I agree it didn't really lose a step even
Speaker 1: being in the Crowler for for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: This beer was super green, a lot of hot flavor
Speaker 1: coming out strong. I really enjoyed it, and next time
Speaker 1: I'm in Orlando, I'm going back Ellipsus Brewing. Even though
Speaker 1: it's in some sort of like commercial strip mall, especially
Speaker 1: it's a terrible location with the beer solid enough that
Speaker 1: it's worth the track. Yeah, we pulled up and I thought, really,
Speaker 1: this is actually gonna be that good, But it really was.
Speaker 1: You can't judge a book by its cover, buddy, That's true.
Speaker 1: All right, man, Well that's gonna do it for this episode.
Speaker 1: And for folks that want to check out the show
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Speaker 1: showing with my alright man, Well, that's gonna be it
Speaker 1: for this episode until next time. Best Friends Out, Best
Speaker 1: Friends Out,