1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,480 Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I and 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:26,759 Speaker 1: Matt and today we're discussing behavioral money tendencies that wreck us. Yeah, Juel, 3 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: this episode, we are going to discuss these different behavioral 4 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,480 Speaker 1: tendencies that we tend to have for no other reason 5 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: than because we're human, right, And these are tendencies that 6 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: we have regardless of what the market is doing, whether 7 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: it's a bowl market or if it's the fastest sinking 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: bearer market we've seen in history. The better we are 9 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,800 Speaker 1: at identifying these behavioral tendencies, the more likely we are 10 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: to be able to make better decisions that will have 11 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: a positive impact on how we view and how we 12 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 1: handle our money. Humans were fickle creatures. We do weird things. 13 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: But yeah, knowing kind of what underlies the actions that 14 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: we take is super helpful, especially when it comes to money, right, Maddie. 15 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: That's right, man, all right. But before we get into that, man, 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: I wanted to let you know I saw this interesting 17 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 1: article on this website called Institutional Investor dot com, and 18 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: it was talking about these Ivy League endowments, These big 19 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: Ivy League schools have these private investment funds, and it 20 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: was just kind of interesting to see that almost all 21 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: of the Ivy League schools completely underperformed the market last year. 22 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: So basically the return that these Ivy League schools got 23 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 1: didn't keep up with just the standard SMP five index 24 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: fund that we often tout on the show. Yeah, and 25 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: not just the SMP five hundred, but it was waited 26 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 1: in the SMP and the other was a bond index. 27 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 1: And and what's so what's even more crazy there is 28 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: to think that if they were comparing that against a 29 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: total stock market fund, or even just one in that 30 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: SMP FID fund, they would have underperformed. But even less, 31 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: Like there was only one Ivy League school that I 32 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: saw in there that outperformed the market, which was was Brown. Yeah, 33 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 1: but otherwise every single Ivy League school, including Harvard and Princeton, 34 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,720 Speaker 1: like these fancy schools that have these massive endowment funds, 35 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 1: which by the way, I looked at Harvard's and it's 36 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: like thirty eight billion dollars, right, so much money, And 37 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: so they've got these fancy investors that are trying to 38 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: grow that money for the benefit of the school, right, Yeah, 39 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: They're they're investing money in private markets, in private equity, 40 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 1: venture capital, all that fancy stuff, things that aren't open 41 00:02:26,360 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: to everyday investors like you and me, And they're thinking 42 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: that they're going to get outside returns because of their 43 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: access to these private investments that nobody else can take 44 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: part in, but they still underperform just the basic investments 45 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: that you and I can easily take advantage that just 46 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: you and me, but all of our listeners right as well. 47 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: And this isn't to point out that the IVY Leagues 48 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: are just really bad at investing, but it's just to 49 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: point out how hard it is to beat the market, 50 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: even with all of these sophisticated tactics, even with all 51 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: the networks and resources that these investors have with these 52 00:02:54,639 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: IVY League schools, that the best bet probably is just 53 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 1: to stick that money in an SP five funded fund 54 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: or total stock market fund. Yeah. I think there's a 55 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: tendency for individual investors as they start to learn a 56 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: little bit more, to get cute or to try to 57 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: get into alternative investments that are touted online. Is potentially 58 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: making you a higher return, you know, closer ten, twelve, 59 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:17,880 Speaker 1: fifteen percent on your money. But if these big wig 60 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: investors who have billions of dollars at their disposal aren't 61 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 1: able to keep up with the SMP five under just 62 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: the the simple trajectory of the overall stock market, or 63 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: even just a standard kind of sixty mix of stocks 64 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: and bonds, then how can we, as individual investors who 65 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: have day jobs and all these other things on our minds, 66 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: how can we even come close to beating the market? 67 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: I mean, I think, I mean, I don't manage an 68 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: endowment fund for a living, right, Like, I've got other 69 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: stuff to do. Yeah, exactly, And so I think it 70 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: just goes to show that we as investors should probably 71 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: keep it simple. We're gonna make better returns in a 72 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: typical year, and at the same time, we're gonna be 73 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:49,520 Speaker 1: paying lower fees, and it's just gonna be easier on 74 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: us at the same time. Yeah exactly. And like you said, 75 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: on a typical year, this was from last year's results. 76 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:56,440 Speaker 1: And this isn't the first year that this has happened, right, 77 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 1: This has happened many times, and so this isn't a 78 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: one time thing. This is a pattern. Yeah. And I 79 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 1: think even if, like let's say, the Ivy League schools 80 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: crushed the stock market next year, I don't think it 81 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 1: necessarily means that investing in private equities or investing in 82 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,960 Speaker 1: alternative ways is a better move. I think overall, we 83 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: see the trends that the numbers bear out that the 84 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 1: simpler investing methods are almost always the best way to go. Yeah, 85 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: and it'll be really interesting to see if these same 86 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: numbers hold true for these endowment funds in an economic 87 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: downturn as well, but for almost all of us. Yeah, 88 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: the simpler the path, the better, simple path to wealth. 89 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: Noil Collins would say, our good buddy, Jail Collins. That's right, 90 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: all right, Matt, let's mention the beer that we're having 91 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 1: on the show today. This one is called I d 92 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 1: k f A. It's by Ellipses Brewing picked this one 93 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: up when I was down in Orlando and brought it 94 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: back in Crowler form for us to share on the 95 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: show today. My friend, Yeah, this along with the one 96 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: we had last week, which is I'm already pulled over, 97 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,119 Speaker 1: So pay that toll, Joel, I'm on it. I will 98 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 1: get on it. No, I haven't. I'm going to Okay, 99 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: do they have an online option to pay? No, that's 100 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: the thing they don't. It's ridiculous. I have to mail 101 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 1: in the check. That's it's lame, but you better do it. 102 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: It's gonna have Our listeners are gonna hold you to 103 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 1: that as well. And by the way, do you know 104 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:06,039 Speaker 1: where this comes from? I d k f A the 105 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,960 Speaker 1: name of this beer. No, not exactly. I remember as 106 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: a kid from playing Doom. It's a it's a cheat code. 107 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 1: It gives you, like I think it was, like, you 108 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 1: get all the ideas, the keys and full armor. It's 109 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: like a super nerdy gamer term. Okay, that's good to know. Yeah, 110 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:24,000 Speaker 1: I didn't know what what it took for. But now 111 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: how d k f A. All right, Well, let's get 112 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: on the topic at hand. Today on the show, we're 113 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 1: talking about behavioral money tendencies that wreck us. And I 114 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 1: think we have to say up front that we're not 115 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: trying to tell everybody that they're dumb. It's just that 116 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: certain things are ingrained in how we are as human 117 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 1: beings and how we approach the world. Right, so natural, Yeah, 118 00:05:40,760 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 1: these these behavioral tendencies are not specific to just a 119 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: few of us. There are things that we all experience 120 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 1: and we all need to fight back against. Some of 121 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:50,039 Speaker 1: the hardest money mistakes to correct are the ones that 122 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: we do habitually because we don't recognize those core behavioral 123 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: problems that actually let us there. So in order to 124 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,880 Speaker 1: to break those money habits, it often means taking a 125 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: step back and develop being some awareness for those behavioral 126 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: issues that lead you there. For example, Matt, there's this 127 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: study that was done of people that drink wine, and 128 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 1: it turns out if you hand somebody glass of wine 129 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: and you tell them the price associated with it, they 130 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: automatically have an instinct for how good the wine is 131 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: going to be. And if you lie to them and 132 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,560 Speaker 1: tell them that the wine costs more than it actually did, 133 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: they assign higher value. They think that the wine was 134 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: better than it actually was. So if I hand you 135 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 1: a glass of wine and I say, man, this this, 136 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: this is this is a twenty dollar glass of wine, 137 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, oh man, this is this is 138 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 1: really really good. But because that's the most we spent 139 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: on wine is like twenty bucks glass. I would never 140 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: spend twenty bucks on a glass of wine, So I thought, 141 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: you're talking about bottles. I mean even that a little 142 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: little rich from my blood. But you'll spend twenty bucks 143 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: easily though on a bottle of beer, Yes I will. Well, 144 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: that's the thing I mean, even aside from wine, like 145 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 1: we did the same thing when it comes to beer, 146 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: Like we get we get our hands on a twenty 147 00:06:49,560 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: seven do a beer, which is rare, but occasionally we'll 148 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: come across like a seven fifty million later bottle, which 149 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: is the same size as a wine bottle traditionally, right, 150 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 1: and if we know it's close to thirty bucks, like 151 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 1: we're expecting a lot more out of that, and we 152 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: kind of convince ourselves that it's going to be better. 153 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: And typically that is because it is better, right, Like 154 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 1: you try to sell some swell that's super price like 155 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:11,760 Speaker 1: that and it's not gonna last. That's gonna hurt the 156 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: brewery's name when you do something like that. But yeah, 157 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: I totally understand. It's honestly why I try to never 158 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: look up the ratings of beers on untapped before I 159 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: drink them, because I don't want to be swayed by 160 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 1: the the star rating on there. I try to I'm 161 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 1: very scientific, so I try to approach it very analytical, 162 00:07:28,080 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 1: and I try to be objective about it, not subjective. Yeah, yeah, 163 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: you want to come up with it in your mind 164 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: before you see what other people said about exactly. I mean, 165 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 1: that makes sense, but I think it is interesting though. 166 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:38,640 Speaker 1: That's just one of these tendencies. And we're gonna cover 167 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: a lot today in the show, all these tendencies that 168 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: we have that lead us down this path of making 169 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: bad money decisions because of these kind of ingrained behavioral 170 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: tendencies that we have. Yeah, those unseen behavioral tendencies can 171 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: totally cost us lots of money and poor buying decisions 172 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: and bad investing moves as well. That's why behavioral economics 173 00:07:57,800 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: it's rapidly becoming a topic of risk, man, at least 174 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: you and me, because we can't divorce our emotions from 175 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: our decisions. It's really hard to do that. But the 176 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: more that we are able to see the correlation between them, 177 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: the more likely we are to be able to make 178 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 1: better decisions, and that will have a positive effect on 179 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: how we view and how we handle our money. Yeah, man, 180 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 1: I kind of grew up, I would say, with a 181 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,480 Speaker 1: negative money attitude, just kind of a negative association towards 182 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:25,560 Speaker 1: money in general. And I think that stems from from 183 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 1: a few different things that I encountered while I was 184 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: growing up, and and because of that, I've kind of 185 00:08:30,360 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: struggled to develop a positive association with money in my adulthood. 186 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 1: I don't want to be super rich, but I do 187 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: want to be well prepared for the future, and I 188 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: want to have the freedom to choose the work that 189 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: I want to do. I don't want to have ample 190 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: time with my family and friends. So I had to 191 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: work through these negative associations with money in order to 192 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: realize that building wealth wasn't the bad thing, Like saving 193 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 1: from my future isn't bad. Just because I had these 194 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: negative associations with money growing up, I guess I kind 195 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: of correlated having money with like the great to be 196 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: lifestyle where people were just like drinking champagne every night, 197 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 1: these fancy cars, fancy parties, and I was like, well, 198 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: I don't have any interest in that. That sounds terrible. 199 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: So I just don't want to accumulate money. And because 200 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: of that, you know, saving from my future wasn't attractive 201 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: to me. But it turns out, and then when you 202 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: study things a little bit further, that the opposite is 203 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: typically true of rich people. Right If if you read, 204 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: for for example, the book The Millionaire next Door, you 205 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 1: see that the way that people actually are able to 206 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 1: amass some wealth is by living frugally, right, they drive 207 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 1: older cars, they live in the same home for a 208 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: long period of time. So I had this negative money 209 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: association and that's something that I've had to work through, 210 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: and so doing that has been really really helpful to 211 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: help me develop a more positive association with money as 212 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: opposed to kind of just that negative one that had 213 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,959 Speaker 1: been ingrained for all those years. It's cool to see too, 214 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 1: that that frugal lifestyle can lead to wealth, right, Like 215 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: that can lead to millions. It's not necessarily like the opposite. 216 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: It's like, it's not like once you become a millionaire, 217 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,840 Speaker 1: then you can, you know, start living lavishly and kind 218 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 1: of living the life. It's like, no, Like, the way 219 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: I'm able to accumulate wealth is because I live frugally, 220 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: and pattern of behavior I feel like carries on as well, 221 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 1: like after someone might you know, have millions in the bank. 222 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: That's why oftentimes those millionaires next door, like they drive 223 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: used Ford Explorers. Yeah, I remember specifically that being one 224 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: of the cars that a lot of them drove. It's like, 225 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: why do they buy used water Explorers. They're like, I 226 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: don't know, they're cheap, you know, they get it done, 227 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: and it's often. Why uh, incredibly rich family often as 228 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: they pass on that fortune to their kids, why doesn't 229 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,840 Speaker 1: last very long? Well? Yeah, oftentimes that frugal lifestyle isn't 230 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 1: necessarily adopted by that younger generation. And when you weren't 231 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: the one actually worked in order to accumulate that wealth. 232 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: Easy come, easy go. Right there, there's kind of that 233 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: factor as well. Well. I think I'm lucky enough to 234 00:10:39,559 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 1: not have had any negative money attitudes. I guess growing 235 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: up we talked about money like fairly often. Um, I 236 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: just had negative attitudes towards other stuff like what peace 237 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: and carrots, which I still don't like, by the way. 238 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: Actually I like carrots okay, but pea's not my favorite. 239 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: I specifically remember a standoff between me and my parents 240 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 1: over green beans over eating one one green bean. Man. 241 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 1: Green means are great. I love green means now, but 242 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: I prove my point, I will say that my parents 243 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: got the message. Well, I mean, I want to kind 244 00:11:08,360 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: of continue talking about like negative attitudes though, right, because 245 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 1: whatever your history with money has been in the past, 246 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: it's important to step back and to consider that those 247 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,000 Speaker 1: attitudes and those views could be negatively affecting how you 248 00:11:20,000 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: relate to money. Now, right, Like, when we underestimate our 249 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,479 Speaker 1: past like that, it can have a serious negative consequence 250 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,800 Speaker 1: on how we behave now. And there's negative views. They 251 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 1: can look different depending on the individual. So, Joe, while 252 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 1: you might have seen having tons of money as a 253 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: big negative, others might see having like a modest amount 254 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,120 Speaker 1: of money as like the worst thing ever, right, and 255 00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,720 Speaker 1: this might cause them to prioritize wealth too much. So 256 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: it all depends on who you are and your life experiences. Yeah, man, 257 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: And all these behavioral tendencies that we're going to talk 258 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: about all of us have seen at least in someone else, 259 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:53,080 Speaker 1: but in all likelihood we've struggled with it too. And 260 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: so let's get to some of those and kind of 261 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: how to combat our behavioral tendencies, the tendencies that tend 262 00:11:58,200 --> 00:11:59,840 Speaker 1: to wreck us and our money. And we'll get to 263 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: the right after the break. All right, man, we are 264 00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: back in the break and we're talking about these different 265 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: behavioral money tendencies that wreck us. Uh. Let's first kind 266 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: of touch on how we tend to make emotional money decisions, 267 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:21,679 Speaker 1: right like this pretty much plagues us. All we can 268 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,040 Speaker 1: easily think about some of those emotional bios on Amazon 269 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: or maybe a night outce I cry every time I 270 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:28,720 Speaker 1: hit the bye button on Amazon? Is it that painful? 271 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: Free to purchase anything? But let's go a level deeper, though, 272 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: and cover some of these more nerdy behavioral economic terms, 273 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:37,679 Speaker 1: what they mean and how they can apply to your life. 274 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: Let's first talk about the endowments effect. You know, we 275 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: actually just talked about endowment funds. This is a little 276 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,160 Speaker 1: bit different, but basically, the endowment effect is when you 277 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,679 Speaker 1: place more value on the things that you have because 278 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: you already own them. Right. So, for instance, like, if 279 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:52,599 Speaker 1: you're trying to get rid of some stuff, do you 280 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: find yourself unwilling to start selling things you own on 281 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: eBay in order to maybe pay off high interest credit 282 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,559 Speaker 1: card debt? That could be because we as hum tend 283 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: to overvalue what we already have in our possessions, and 284 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 1: so it's natural for us to to not want to 285 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: part with those items because we do overestimate the actual value. Yeah, 286 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:11,560 Speaker 1: that quick example. I think if let's say, for instance, 287 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: you were into baseball cards and you had a Kim 288 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 1: Griffey Jr. Autographed rookie card, right, and it was worth 289 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: a thousand bucks. I don't know how much that cards worth. 290 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: I just guessing that sounds pretty generous. Okay, maybe it's 291 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 1: worth five. Do you own this card? Because no, I 292 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: guess I would explain why you say it's worth a 293 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: thousand dollars. I don't because if I did, I'd have 294 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: a thousand bucks my pie. I'd tell it. But so, 295 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 1: my brother in law is getting into basketball cards right now, 296 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: and he actually recently sold a card, a rookie card 297 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 1: for like a new NBA player, I think, for like 298 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: three thousand bucks on eBay. What's Yeah, so these cards 299 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: are worth a lot of money, some of them. That 300 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 1: is crazy. I didn't know there's that much. I guess inflation, right, Yeah, 301 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: Like when I was a kid, cards did not cost 302 00:13:49,080 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: that much, right, Yeah, you go get a nice one 303 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:52,559 Speaker 1: for twenty bucks or but I mean we would just 304 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: buy the packs since he was in there. But let's 305 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: say you had a nice one in your possession, and 306 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: you've got some high interest credit card debt too. Well, 307 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: if you could esentially pay off your credit card by 308 00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:05,160 Speaker 1: selling your kid Griffe Junior rookie card, well then that 309 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: would make a whole lot of sense. But most people 310 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 1: probably overvalue the card they already have in their their possession. 311 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: Would you go out, let's say you didn't have the 312 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: card and pay a thousand dollars at the card shop 313 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:17,720 Speaker 1: in order to buy it while you're in credit card debt? 314 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: No way, Probably not. That's the endowment effect. That's essentially 315 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 1: you assigning more value to the card because you already 316 00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: have it, then you should because you wouldn't go out 317 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: there and buy that same card today for that amount 318 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: of money. Yeah. I think this can also be extended 319 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: to things like checking accounts and savings accounts that we have. 320 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: In particular, like I'm thinking about credit cards that you've 321 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 1: had around for a long time and you have this 322 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: sort of emotional attachment to it, right and guess what, 323 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: maybe it's got an annual fee and you receive like 324 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: next to no benefits from this dumb card. I think 325 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: the same thing could apply to checking accounts. A lot 326 00:14:47,520 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: of people still have their checking accounts with big banks, 327 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: and they have monthly fees if they don't meet a 328 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: certain threshold of a balance or certain transactions. Right. And 329 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: so these credit cards or these checking accounts are costing 330 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: us money if we have them, And the reason that 331 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 1: we're hanging onto them is because we've always had them 332 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: like these are you know, we have this emotional attachment 333 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: to them where we're over assigning the amount of value 334 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: that these accounts that these cards bring us when we 335 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 1: know that if we were going to open up a 336 00:15:11,800 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: new account today that we would definitely not open up 337 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: those accounts. Now, yeah, there's a little bit of inertia 338 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: bias in there, and oh yeah, yeah, it's it's hard 339 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: to do something new like that when when we've always 340 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: been doing this other thing for years. Yeah, Matt, Let's 341 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: talk about another emotional behavioral money tendency that that we 342 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,360 Speaker 1: sometimes make, and that's the sunk cost fallacy. And before 343 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: we get to the fallacy, let's kind of define what 344 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: sunk costs are. That is, essentially any past cost that 345 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 1: has already been paid and cannot be recovered. So, for example, 346 00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: concert tickets are the perfect illustration the price you paid 347 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: for the tickets. Well, there are sunk costs, but if 348 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: the money you've already paid is causing you to do 349 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: something that's making you worse off or more unhappy, then 350 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: you fallen prey to the sunk cost fallacy. So to 351 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: the concert tickets, let's say you get sick and it 352 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: would be a miserable time if you went to that concert, 353 00:15:57,240 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: but you go anyway just to get your money's worth. 354 00:15:59,840 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: You just took line and sinker fell for that stunt 355 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: cost fallacy. Yeah. A lot of times folks will refer 356 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: to this as like throwing good money after bad, right, 357 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: because you're you're trying to essentially like redeem the situation 358 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: by throwing more money at that problem, when in fact 359 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: it's just making you worse off. Man. I think of 360 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,200 Speaker 1: an example in our life where I think we came 361 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: really close to falling into the stunt cost fallacy. This 362 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: is when we were at our old house, Kate and 363 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: I and our family was growing. I was working from home, 364 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 1: and our house wasn't working for us right. We knew 365 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,720 Speaker 1: that we needed to renovate and make the house bigger, 366 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: and so we were. We had planned out this massive 367 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: renovation and it was going to cost us a lot 368 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,440 Speaker 1: of money. But we'd kind of fallen in love with 369 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: the idea of renovating it because we designed it, We'd 370 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: worked with architects, and we had this awesome plan was 371 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 1: going to make a ton of sense. And deep down 372 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: to side, I think we also knew that it wasn't 373 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: necessarily going to fix some of the underlying issues with 374 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 1: the house, Like it was gonna make it bigger, but 375 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,160 Speaker 1: there is gonna be some awkwardness to it, right, And 376 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: so like the problem there is had we done that 377 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: because we already had the house. Obviously this is a 378 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: little bit related to the endowment effect because we already 379 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,520 Speaker 1: had the house as well. But we already paid a 380 00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: lot of money for that house, and we're looking to 381 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: dump a lot more money into it in order to 382 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: make it work moving forward. But I think how we 383 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: continue to go down that path, I think we definitely 384 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 1: would have fallen victim to some cost fallacy. Yeah, I 385 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,400 Speaker 1: think let's give a couple more examples that people can 386 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: also relate to. I think one is that if you 387 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,160 Speaker 1: own a car and you realize that you have these 388 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,840 Speaker 1: other debts you need to take care of, but you're 389 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 1: gonna lose money by selling that car your upside down 390 00:17:22,440 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: on it. Let's say, well, it might still make sense 391 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: to sell that car and and take that loss in 392 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: order to reduce your costs that you can put more 393 00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: of your money towards those debt payments. But it's so 394 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: hard to actually do because we're emotionally tied to the 395 00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:37,760 Speaker 1: fact that we're gonna quote unquote lose money on that 396 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:39,800 Speaker 1: one decision, and if we can think about the larger, 397 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: overall picture, it's really helpful so that we don't fall 398 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: prey to that sun cost fallacy on that one item. Dude, 399 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,920 Speaker 1: totally right, Like looking at that big picture can completely 400 00:17:47,920 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: put things in the right perspective. Also, I think about 401 00:17:50,280 --> 00:17:52,080 Speaker 1: relationships a little bit too, Like this is maybe an 402 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,879 Speaker 1: example that's not money related, but there might be an 403 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,480 Speaker 1: individual who's in a romantic relationship, which is why we're friends, 404 00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: still in some cost fallacy. You're like, I've too much. Well, 405 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: I guess you do see it sometimes in like plutonic relationships, 406 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 1: but I'm thinking about romantic relationships right, Like, if someone's 407 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:10,520 Speaker 1: in a romantic relationship and they know it's not going anywhere, 408 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:12,239 Speaker 1: or they it's not going where they want it to go, 409 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,919 Speaker 1: a lot of times people won't cut their losses and 410 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: they won't end that relationship because they have spent so 411 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 1: much time, so much energy. You know, it's like, man, 412 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: they've already met my parents, Like like that's sort of 413 00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: the last hurdle of I don't want to admit defeat now, 414 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: and so because of that, folks will continue to pour 415 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: into that relationship when you know, in the end, they 416 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:30,719 Speaker 1: know that it's not going anywhere and they just need 417 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: to kind of face the facts. And I don't want to. 418 00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to admit that I wasted three years 419 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,680 Speaker 1: with this person whatever, like a lot of time, which 420 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 1: is so hard to do. Like I'm not saying that 421 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: that's easy to do, but I think, you know, big picture, 422 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: like looking at the grand scheme of your life, that's 423 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,640 Speaker 1: the right thing to do. Yeah, well, we're not really 424 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: a relationship advice podcast, but not yet. That's our spinoff 425 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 1: podcast coming soon, right, Um, I don't think our wives 426 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,080 Speaker 1: would listen to that. No, No, they're not buying into 427 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: us having any sort of relational wisdom at all. Like 428 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: what's like, money is one thing, but relationship advice no way. 429 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about some more emotional money tendencies 430 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: based on kind of the behavioral things that are ingrained 431 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:09,160 Speaker 1: in us. And one of these behavioral tendencies is called 432 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: transaction utility, and essentially that's buying stuff just because it 433 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: looks like it's on sale. And retailers have been doing 434 00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: a fantastic job at making this a really difficult one 435 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: for us to combat. For years now, they're posting often silly, 436 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: fake ms rps to make us think that we're getting 437 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,320 Speaker 1: an incredible deal. My wife the other day actually kind 438 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 1: of fell prey to this. She bought a bathing suit 439 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,080 Speaker 1: online and it was twenty six dollars, which is a 440 00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:33,840 Speaker 1: decent price for bathing suit. I think, I don't know, 441 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: and it's like a great price, yeah, but the m 442 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: s r P was ninety dollars when clearly, unless you 443 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: got a great deal to right, but clearly this bathing 444 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: suit never cost ninety dollars. And the way that you 445 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: can see that never know. By the way, on a 446 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: lot of these online sites are on a site like 447 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: Amazon is using like the honey plug in, you can tell, okay, 448 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,479 Speaker 1: this suggested retail price is not reality because you can 449 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,400 Speaker 1: see what the price has been over the last thirty days, 450 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,399 Speaker 1: and if the m s r piece has ninet but 451 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 1: the price is never broken forty two, then you realize 452 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: it's just this fake price to make you feel like 453 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 1: you're getting a better deal. And especially when we're encountering 454 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 1: all these different online sellers from across the world. Now, 455 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: it's a really hard thing to keep track of what 456 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: the actual price should be on this item and how 457 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: good of a deal we're getting. And so this is 458 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: something that we're encountering more and more and it's becoming 459 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: harder and harder to tell whether we're getting a good price. So, Matt, 460 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: how how can we combat transaction utility and actually make 461 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: purchases not just based on the quote unquote sale price 462 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: that we're seeing. Well, Joel, thank you for asking. I 463 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: think what we need to do is just not worry 464 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: about the actual percentage off, right, Like we don't need 465 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:36,440 Speaker 1: to look at that that red price. A lot of 466 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: times they put in red so it stands out so 467 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,800 Speaker 1: it pops. Don't worry about that. Just ask yourself the question, 468 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:43,720 Speaker 1: like what is this worth to you? And by the way, 469 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:45,960 Speaker 1: like when you've identified what the actual dollar amount that 470 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: you would pay for something, that's actually called the acquisition value, 471 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,800 Speaker 1: that's the true price that you'd be willing to pay. 472 00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: And that's a rational way it's approach price, right, Whereas 473 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,919 Speaker 1: transaction utility that appeals more to the emotions, right, Like 474 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: you either have positive transaction utility, which is like where 475 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,000 Speaker 1: you feel like you're getting a good deal, or you 476 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: have negative transaction utility where you kind of feel like 477 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: you're getting ripped off. Um. It has nothing to do 478 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 1: with what you would be willing to actually pay, but 479 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,520 Speaker 1: it plays more off of sort of the emotions behind 480 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: what it feels like when you are making that purchase. Yeah. Man, 481 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: I think we're more susceptible to transaction utility when we 482 00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:18,440 Speaker 1: become deal based shoppers as opposed to shopping for things 483 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: based on our needs or are thoroughly thought out once. 484 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: And I think I've talked about this on the show before. 485 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: I know this from expersitional experiences. I was a deal 486 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: based shopper for a long time, and I would buy 487 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: things based on how cheap they were, essentially getting a 488 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,240 Speaker 1: pair of jeans for ten or twelve or fourteen bucks. 489 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: Would would like get my ajournaline pumping, and I'm like, yeah, 490 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: I scored a great deal, and then I get them 491 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 1: in the mail. I forgot that I ordered them, and 492 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: then I didn't really end up liking them anyway. Fit 493 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: kind of weird. Yeah, Like I shouldn't have gotten these 494 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: genes off of WOOT, Like would off I have new 495 00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:51,479 Speaker 1: they still happen. I think, yeah, we'd still around. Oh man, 496 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:53,680 Speaker 1: I feel like they're huge, like five ten years ago 497 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: owned by Amazon. Now actually are they really? Yeah, I 498 00:21:56,240 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: guess that's why they're still around. But yeah, I know 499 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: that's totally how I shot. And it was all based 500 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: on kind of the percentage off and how good of 501 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 1: a deal I thought I was getting. But really, it's 502 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,119 Speaker 1: not a great deal if it's something that you're not 503 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: going to use, are not going to be happy with. 504 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 1: And so, yeah, combating transaction utility thinking about what this 505 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,480 Speaker 1: item is worth to you and then taking some time 506 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: to make that decision as opposed to clicking to purchase 507 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: right away, that can really really help us combat that 508 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: negative money emotion that so easily lets us down. Yeah, 509 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,879 Speaker 1: this is why outlet malls are so popular, man, Like, 510 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: everybody wants to snag what they perceived to be a 511 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: fantastic deal, and when you feel like you're paying less 512 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: than what you should, this is an example of that 513 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 1: positive transaction utility. Like you, you also see this play 514 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:40,719 Speaker 1: out in retail categories of infrequently purchased items like mattresses 515 00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: and cars as well. Most customers like they won't notice 516 00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 1: how there always happens to be a sale quote unquote 517 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,399 Speaker 1: sale going on right, and so because of that, you know, 518 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: when they are in the market to buy and I 519 00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: don't like that, they're going to be more willing to 520 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: spend compared to you if there wasn't a sale going 521 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,439 Speaker 1: on year round. I'm looking at you, old nabef like 522 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: forty weeks a year. I mean, it's that kind of thing. 523 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: It's that kind of mentality that leads us to shopping 524 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:07,000 Speaker 1: more based on sale prices when the sale is pretty 525 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,680 Speaker 1: much always going on. It's just dirt cheap stuff, year 526 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: round sale. You know. Actually, I saw another example to 527 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,240 Speaker 1: where Macy's and j. C. Penny they had decided to 528 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:15,840 Speaker 1: kind of go away from that model, like they had 529 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: eliminated the m s r P the manufacturers suggested retail price, 530 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,000 Speaker 1: and they eliminated sales uh, and they eliminated like the 531 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: instead they just rounded up. They're like, you know what, 532 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: forget all that, We're just gonna go thirty bucks. And 533 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:29,919 Speaker 1: it costs them a ton of money. It was a 534 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: huge disaster for them. And so that was an example 535 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:35,120 Speaker 1: that was evidence of the power of this transaction utility 536 00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:37,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to folks looking for a deal. Yeah, 537 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,560 Speaker 1: they're they're playing into the fact that that's what we want. 538 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 1: At our core is we want to be bargain hunters 539 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: and we want something off. We want to feel like 540 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: we scored a deal, even if it's not the deal. 541 00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:48,320 Speaker 1: But because it's so powerful for the bottom line for 542 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,400 Speaker 1: these retailers, it's important for us to know that that's 543 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,679 Speaker 1: what they're doing so that we can be aware of 544 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: our actions as we go into that scenario. Right as 545 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: we go into a shopping mall, which I don't know 546 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: that many people do that anymore, or we're shopping online, 547 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,760 Speaker 1: we're ever it is. We have to know that tendency 548 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,959 Speaker 1: and know that that's how retailers are trying to get us, 549 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 1: and man, we need to be savvy shoppers. Uh, let's 550 00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: kind of talk about now a positive behavior technique that 551 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: we can implement, and that is proper framing. This can 552 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,320 Speaker 1: be immensely helpful because it can lead us to the 553 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,960 Speaker 1: correct action that we need to take. So for example, um, 554 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: it's it's much easier for us to save five bucks 555 00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 1: a day than it is to say we're going to 556 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:24,959 Speaker 1: save a d fifty dollars every single month. Right, it's 557 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,159 Speaker 1: the same overall amount of money, but the way you 558 00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: think about it makes all the difference in the world. Um. However, 559 00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: on the flip side, the way things are framed can 560 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: also lead you to make a poor decision too. It's 561 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: a double edged sword. So for example, if you're saving 562 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: four retirements, you might be saying yourself, but it's you know, 563 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: this is forty five years away. I don't need to 564 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,520 Speaker 1: worry about that now. That's a poor way of thinking 565 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: about it, because you know, like we do need to 566 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: start saving and start worrying about that now. And so instead, 567 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: the proper way to think about it is, man, one 568 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: million dollars, Like, that's gonna be a lot of money 569 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,880 Speaker 1: for me to save up for retirement. Luckily, I can 570 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: start saving for that now. We want to encourage folks 571 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: to adopt helpful framing that would allow you to reach 572 00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: your financial goals. Yeah. The great thing is if you 573 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: start now, you have to save way less. That's another 574 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: way to frame it. Right, When you look at the 575 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: numbers of what you need to save, if you start 576 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: at age fifty versus age thirty, it's dramatically different. So 577 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:12,320 Speaker 1: you're like, oh, I can put away two or fifty 578 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:14,240 Speaker 1: bucks a month, but if you wait till age fifty, 579 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna be talking about two months exactly seriously, And 580 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: that's because of compound interest. Yeah. Uh so framing yes 581 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:23,399 Speaker 1: is hugely helpful, Matt. You know, I read this article 582 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: recently by Dan Egan, who's a behavioral economics expert, and 583 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: he wrote about diverting our negative emotional energy into positive 584 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: behavioral action. And I love the picture that he gave 585 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: of martial arts and how oftentimes in a lot of 586 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,119 Speaker 1: martial arts moves, you're not necessarily none chucking somebody in 587 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:41,520 Speaker 1: the face. Like, what you're doing is you're diverting their 588 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 1: energy into a move that benefits you. Isn't that the 589 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:46,960 Speaker 1: core of like judo or like jiu jitsu? Yeah? I 590 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: think it's jujitsu, right. You're using the other person's energy momentum. Yeah, 591 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: and you're turning it into a power play for yourself. 592 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: And I think as you do that, you say, suck it. 593 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 1: That's what I do at Are you all right? Did 594 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,800 Speaker 1: you ever do martial arts as a kid or as 595 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,719 Speaker 1: an adult? I did. I did like karate like one 596 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: year as a kid, But everybody did karate for like 597 00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:06,639 Speaker 1: one year as a kid. Actually, like looking back. I 598 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: don't know if I did Kredi for a year or 599 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,159 Speaker 1: if my mom just bought me like a white karate 600 00:26:10,240 --> 00:26:13,800 Speaker 1: outfit just so I can pretend while I watched reruns 601 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,080 Speaker 1: of kredit Kid on TBS. Totally man, But I think 602 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 1: it's helpful to think about some of our our money 603 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: mistakes like this. We can actually use the momentum from 604 00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 1: what we've learned from poor financial decisions to help us 605 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 1: rebound into putting ourselves into a much stronger financial position. So, 606 00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:29,640 Speaker 1: for example, you might have a significant amount of student 607 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 1: loan debt or tons of credit card debt that forces 608 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: you to learn how to finally handle your money well. 609 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,879 Speaker 1: You might have kind of pinned yourself in a corner, 610 00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: but because of that, you'll end up in a much 611 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: better financial position down the road when you've got that 612 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,439 Speaker 1: debt paid off. Now you can use that money to 613 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:45,679 Speaker 1: do positive things, save and invest and think about your 614 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 1: future goals. And I think Matt sometimes that framing right 615 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: and using that negative behavioral action to influence your future 616 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: positive moves that can make a huge difference between attacking 617 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:58,399 Speaker 1: a problem well and actually paying that debt off or 618 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: kind of floundering for a long period of time just 619 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: kind of being bummed about the situation that you're in. Sure, man, 620 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:04,959 Speaker 1: that's a classic example of taking lemons and making lemonade. Right. 621 00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 1: So the other thing, too is as you're working to 622 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 1: frame things properly in a in a way that you 623 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: can find helpful to your goals, make sure that you 624 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,680 Speaker 1: are aware of recency bias. That's when your most recent experience, 625 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,919 Speaker 1: whether you know that experience is good or whether that 626 00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: experience is bad, but if you let that experience kind 627 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: of dominate your thinking right like, it will dictate your 628 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,959 Speaker 1: viewpoint to a large extent. So, for example, these mostly 629 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: positive return is that we've experienced in the stock market 630 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: over the past ten years, over the last decade, that 631 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: might cause some investors to make overly risky moves where 632 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: they're maybe they're picking individual stocks, they're trying to hack 633 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: the stock market. That can be a bad move. And 634 00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: then more recently, the coronavirus scared like that might cause 635 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: you to be overly conservative and not invest at all. 636 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,239 Speaker 1: That is also a bad move. But what we need 637 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: to do instead is to make sure that we're keeping 638 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: the facts forefront in our minds to make sure that 639 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: we are making informed decisions. Now you're seeing someone's profile 640 00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 1: pick where they basically edit a group of other people 641 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 1: out of their pictures so it's just them because it 642 00:27:58,440 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: was a really good picture of them in that picture 643 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: with other people always look so awkward. It does, It does. 644 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,119 Speaker 1: That's what I think of though, when I think about framing, right, 645 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:07,680 Speaker 1: it's almost like they they've cut everything else out of 646 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 1: the picture to build a zoom in on the awesome 647 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:12,639 Speaker 1: picture that they were able to take that day and 648 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 1: cut everybody else who wasn't looking that good out of it, 649 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:17,720 Speaker 1: and proper framing puts everybody else back in the picture. 650 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: It zooms out a little bit. It looks at the 651 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: longer timeline, let's say, of kind of stock performance over 652 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,800 Speaker 1: a hundred years as opposed to over the last five, 653 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: six or ten. It helps us get a better idea 654 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,280 Speaker 1: of what's actually happening as opposed to just our most 655 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: recent interactions with it. Yeah, man, it's definitely that's a 656 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,680 Speaker 1: way for us to kind of fight these negative behaviors. 657 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: And we'll cover a couple more ways that we can 658 00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: battle these tendencies right after the break, all right, that 659 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: we'll back from the break. We're talking about behavioral money 660 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: tendencies that wreck us. And let's get to the next 661 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,719 Speaker 1: behavioral issue that I think has a major impact. I'm 662 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: gonna call this the Pinky in the Brain effect. Don't 663 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: nobody else has called it that. This is my does 664 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: the original take. This is the scholarly term that I'm 665 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,480 Speaker 1: giving to over confidence. Of all, you're gonna need to 666 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: explain it because I'm maybe watched Pink in the Brain 667 00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:10,000 Speaker 1: like once. I mustly spent my time watching like Inspector 668 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,200 Speaker 1: Gadget because he was super technical. Obviously I'm into that. 669 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: So Peaky of the Brain was these two rodents that 670 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 1: tried to take over the world every night and it 671 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 1: was never gonna happen. They never got close, but they 672 00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 1: were pretty confident they're gonna be able to make it happen. 673 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: So that's why I'm as signing. And It's been a 674 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: long time since I've seen Pinky of the Brain, but 675 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: I'm just I'm going with it. So like it, over 676 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: confidence is a behavioral issue that we have to wrestle with. 677 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 1: One or two. Great money moves doesn't necessarily make us 678 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 1: a genius, and it can lead to a willingness to 679 00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:41,880 Speaker 1: take risks that we shouldn't because our confidence level sores. So, 680 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 1: for example, you might have crushed it buying your first 681 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: rental property, but the market it's always changing, and no 682 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: two houses are the same either. You might have bought 683 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 1: your house when the market was great, So be aware 684 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:55,080 Speaker 1: of that tendency to be overconfident and have a check 685 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:56,920 Speaker 1: and balance the system in order to help you make 686 00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: a wise decision. You might have bought in this killer market, Matt, 687 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 1: where let's say in two ten it was pretty easy 688 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: to buy an affordable house that was going to make 689 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: a good rental house, and in two twenty, you know what, 690 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: the numbers are harder to come by. So just because 691 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 1: you were able to make a good decision a while 692 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: ago doesn't necessarily mean your genius at it and that 693 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,240 Speaker 1: you can have just an insane amount of confidence going forward. Yeah, 694 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: that over confidence that can come oftentimes before the fall, 695 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,760 Speaker 1: before you make those many mistakes. Right, But once we 696 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,880 Speaker 1: have messed up and made those mistakes, we want to 697 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:29,680 Speaker 1: make sure that we learn from our mistakes. That is paramount, right, 698 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: Like that is so important when it comes to growing 699 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: and making better decisions in the future. But you know what, man, 700 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: that doesn't always happen. Sometimes we don't learn from our mistakes, 701 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:39,719 Speaker 1: and some or or it takes a couple of tries. Right. 702 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: One of the reasons that we may not learn from 703 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: our mistakes is because of confirmation bias. Uh. That is 704 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,040 Speaker 1: the term I think that's often most associated with an 705 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: unwillingness to learn, and that's obviously when we look for 706 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 1: facts that back us up instead of taking in all 707 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 1: of the information. I'm thinking about if somebody is a 708 00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: devout Fox News follower or seen in follower, right, like 709 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 1: the have their angle that they like to spend on 710 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,760 Speaker 1: the news, and so if you're only receiving your information 711 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: from sources that back up your pre existing beliefs, then 712 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: you're not gonna be able to learn much about the 713 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 1: world or those around you. When we only turn to 714 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: these sources that back up our intuition, makes us feel 715 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,040 Speaker 1: like that we are making an informed decision, but really 716 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: we've likely sidestepped other information that would have helped us 717 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,120 Speaker 1: to make an even better decision. Yeah. Man, when you 718 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: look at the headlines, no matter what economic cycle you're in, 719 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,400 Speaker 1: there's always somebody predicting a boom in the economy, and 720 00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: there's always somebody predicting a bust, and they're always outsized 721 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:37,560 Speaker 1: compared to what normally happens. Right recently, Tesla was hitting 722 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: kind of some some big time highs in the stock market, 723 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:41,640 Speaker 1: and people are saying that it was gonna triple in 724 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: price in the next year, and other people were saying, no, no, 725 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,600 Speaker 1: no, no no, it's going to be devalued by by two thirds. 726 00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,040 Speaker 1: And so everybody's got this prognostication and the reality often 727 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 1: lies somewhere way closer to the middle. So if we're 728 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 1: only looking for these sources that are going to confirm 729 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 1: what we believe while they're out there, you're gonna be 730 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:00,240 Speaker 1: able to find them. But it doesn't necessarily mean that 731 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:01,960 Speaker 1: you're gonna have an informed decision. It can lead to 732 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: over confidence. And it's definitely true that if we go 733 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 1: the confirmation biased route, it's gonna be much harder for 734 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 1: us to learn from our money mistakes. Yeah, and and 735 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,960 Speaker 1: so the solution or like maybe the antidote to confirmation 736 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,960 Speaker 1: biasedal is just to make sure that you're getting the 737 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: right information right. Like this isn't necessarily a groundbreaking tactic, 738 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: but that's something that we so often fail to do. 739 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,840 Speaker 1: It's really important for us to play devil's advocate. Um, 740 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:23,560 Speaker 1: you know, ask yourself, what if the purchase you really 741 00:32:23,560 --> 00:32:26,240 Speaker 1: want to make is actually a terrible decision, Like, think 742 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: through what that would look like, kind of put yourself 743 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 1: on the other side of that equation. Make a list 744 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,239 Speaker 1: of pros and cons before you go for it. Not 745 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,000 Speaker 1: just the list of pros like that's obviously what you're 746 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 1: gonna be thinking about. You're gonna think about how this 747 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,680 Speaker 1: decision or how this purchase, you know, how is this 748 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 1: gonna make my life better? It's gonna allow me to 749 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: do this, this, and this, But think about the cons, 750 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: think about the drawbacks as well, and that can help 751 00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,840 Speaker 1: you to make a better informed decision. Taking stock of 752 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: all sides of that decision before pouncing can help you 753 00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:56,080 Speaker 1: to make more rational and more objective decisions. Yeah, I agree, Matt. 754 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: And and and also consider listening to someone who you vehemently 755 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: disagree with. I think sometimes times hearing the opposing viewpoint, 756 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: hearing the other side can actually help lead you to, 757 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: in a healthy way, question what it is that you 758 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: believe or that the side that you've come down on. 759 00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: And another reason, Matt, that I think that we fail 760 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: to learn from our money mistakes consistently is an unwillingness 761 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: to seek help. Sometimes we have a tendency to go 762 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: it alone. Sometimes we lack crucial information, and yet we 763 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 1: still refuse to tap resources that can help pull us 764 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 1: out of our money mess. Right listening to a podcast 765 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: like how the Money is a start for sure, but 766 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: don't be afraid to dig deeper. Are you in lots 767 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: of debt? Well, outside help could help you progress more quickly, 768 00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:36,560 Speaker 1: Yet you might be stubborn insisting that you have to 769 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: do it on your own. So, for example, NFCC, we've 770 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 1: talked about that before on the show, the National Foundation 771 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:43,760 Speaker 1: for Credit Counseling. If you go to NFCC dot org, 772 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: there are affiliate chapters all across the country where you 773 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 1: can get free help to create a budget or to 774 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: get out of debt free. Have we talked about how 775 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: much we love free things before? Joe Preece us the best? 776 00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, I think, Matt, we do kind of live 777 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 1: in an individualistic society, and it's easier to think that 778 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 1: we have to go it alone. But when you step 779 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: back and lies their resources at our disposal, there are 780 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,640 Speaker 1: people that are willing to help. And just like they say, right, 781 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,440 Speaker 1: it takes a village to to raise a kid. It's 782 00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 1: helpful if you have other input. If it's helpful if 783 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,600 Speaker 1: you have more hands on deck. The same thing is 784 00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:13,120 Speaker 1: true with helping you think through and solve money issues. 785 00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: It's gonna take a lot longer if you don't learn 786 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 1: from the wisdom of others and you're not willing to 787 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,839 Speaker 1: kind of include other people in that process. Yeah. One 788 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 1: of the ways you can include others in that process 789 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: and include them in your life is by creating community, right, 790 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: Like when you can have people who you talk with 791 00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,040 Speaker 1: about money, like that is so crucial, you know, it's 792 00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:33,880 Speaker 1: so important to be able to bounce ideas off of 793 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,360 Speaker 1: your friends or maybe a partner who has also interested 794 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: in money and who have similar financial in life goals 795 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 1: as well, Like this can be such a huge help. Joel, 796 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,160 Speaker 1: our friendship, you and me man, Like we've talked about 797 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: this many times before, how our friendship has helped both 798 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,719 Speaker 1: of us to financially be in a better position, Like 799 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 1: we have both made better decisions regarding our money, you know, 800 00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: when it comes to saving and investing, but also to 801 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 1: like not even on the nerdier you know, super frugal 802 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: side of things, but like I think times we encourage 803 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,560 Speaker 1: each other to spend money in ways that matter to 804 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: us as well, like we're able to encourage each other 805 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,919 Speaker 1: to live that balanced life where we're you know, we're 806 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: certainly focusing and talking about the different goals that we 807 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,160 Speaker 1: you know, we each share for our families, but you 808 00:35:12,160 --> 00:35:13,920 Speaker 1: know I are both talking about just ways that we 809 00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: are making sure that we're living our life according to 810 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,960 Speaker 1: our different values. Yeah, man, I agree, man, our friendship 811 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,200 Speaker 1: has been been huge and helping me think about money well, 812 00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: helping me think about how I spend money and actually 813 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,319 Speaker 1: thinking about it more positively. And I think too, you know, 814 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,840 Speaker 1: my marriage has been a big part of this. Emily 815 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 1: has helped me think through, you know, my issues with money, 816 00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:33,399 Speaker 1: my tendencies. Like I mentioned at the beginning of the show, 817 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,680 Speaker 1: it'll be a great gaspy. You don't want to be 818 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 1: richie rich, but I don't want to have those negative 819 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,319 Speaker 1: associations either, And so I think we've been able to 820 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,800 Speaker 1: positively together develop a better approach towards money that feels 821 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,319 Speaker 1: a lot healthier. Yeah, man, relationships are so important and 822 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: we know as well though that not everyone like right now, 823 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: as you're listening to this has someone in their life 824 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: where they can just start talking about investing or paying 825 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:55,120 Speaker 1: off their debts. And and for those folks, we would 826 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: recommend checking out our Facebook group. If you get a 827 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: Facebook dot com, if you just head over there and 828 00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 1: search how the Money, you'll you'll find our page. But 829 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 1: then you also find our group. We would appreciate a 830 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:05,600 Speaker 1: like on the page, sure, but really what we want 831 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 1: you to do is join the group. That is where 832 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,960 Speaker 1: all the helpful conversation is going on. That's where members 833 00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 1: are encouraging each other, pointing each other to helpful resources, 834 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,400 Speaker 1: answering each other's questions. Like there's just a robust conversation 835 00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: going on there. And I love seeing the online community 836 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:21,319 Speaker 1: thrive like that and seeing folks point each other to 837 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,239 Speaker 1: make better financial decisions. Yeah, it really has become a 838 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,799 Speaker 1: place where nine percent of everything on there is just 839 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 1: hyper encouraging and really helpful. At the same time, I agree, 840 00:36:31,080 --> 00:36:33,320 Speaker 1: our listeners are the people who make up that Facebook 841 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: and we have the best listeners because it shows it's 842 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,359 Speaker 1: evidenced every day in the Facebook group and how they 843 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,759 Speaker 1: help each other out. And Man, I think as behavioral 844 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:44,520 Speaker 1: economics grows as a field, will have the increased ability 845 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,400 Speaker 1: to take a peek behind the curtain of how we 846 00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,919 Speaker 1: work internally, and hopefully to be able to make better 847 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:52,360 Speaker 1: decisions based on what we see. These conclusions are already 848 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,760 Speaker 1: making differences in how businesses function and how public policy 849 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: gets made. Even too. We didn't really touch on that 850 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,759 Speaker 1: much in this episode, but awareness for us as individuals 851 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 1: is at least half the battle. Being tipped off to 852 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 1: the irrational ways that we approach money can help us 853 00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 1: change things so that we can make better decisions in 854 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,080 Speaker 1: the future. I love the field of behavioral economics amount 855 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: I think it's fascinating. Humans are odd and interesting creatures 856 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: and we have all these things that we're susceptible to. 857 00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,359 Speaker 1: But I'm glad we were able to cover kind of 858 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,120 Speaker 1: some of those behavioral tendencies that can wreck us and 859 00:37:22,160 --> 00:37:24,800 Speaker 1: wreck our money on this episode because they are important 860 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:26,239 Speaker 1: things to be aware of. And we don't use the 861 00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 1: word wreck all that awesome, except you know, when we're 862 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: talking about like a car accident or wreck, it makes 863 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 1: me think of wreck it Ralph, which I actually watched 864 00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: recently with my with my kiddos. Have you seen that 865 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:37,880 Speaker 1: one dude that's one of my favorite one. Yeah, it 866 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 1: was surprisingly great. Like I pulled up the Rotten Tomatos 867 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: reviews on and I was like, okay, this is you know, 868 00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:44,480 Speaker 1: I try to watch the ones where I'm like, those 869 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: are actually a good story going on, because a lot 870 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,440 Speaker 1: of the kid movies can be kind of weird. Like 871 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: I'm just saying. I'm just saying, like there's a few 872 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,399 Speaker 1: that I've watched. Round was like, seriously, this is so weird. 873 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:54,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to waste my time watching this record 874 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:56,799 Speaker 1: Ralph so good positive message is a lot of fun, 875 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 1: like a lot of nostalogy going on there too. Yeah, man, 876 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,080 Speaker 1: I think we can highly wreck man. Both of the 877 00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,440 Speaker 1: Record Ralph movies very very good. I mean it's not 878 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 1: like I watched them like by myself either. I watch 879 00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:06,600 Speaker 1: them all like kids. Just let me know in case 880 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: anyone was thinking that that's what I do with my 881 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: free time is watch cartoons by myself. No, not quite. 882 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: That's like the second car you're like pinking in the 883 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:15,680 Speaker 1: brain reference as well. So yeah, I was just sitting 884 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: at home watching Nickelodeon or whatever I did. I'm just 885 00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:20,560 Speaker 1: trying to get inspiration for the show. Okay, but all right, Matt, 886 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: let's get back to the beer that we had on 887 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 1: the show today. This one was called I d KFE 888 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: by Ellipsis Brewing and I picked this I p a 889 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:28,520 Speaker 1: up when I was in Orlando. What do you think 890 00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:30,400 Speaker 1: this beer, buddy? Yeah, man, this is one that you 891 00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: picked up. So another big things to you for for 892 00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,799 Speaker 1: picking this one up while you were down there checking 893 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,279 Speaker 1: out Disney with the in laws with the family. I 894 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:39,280 Speaker 1: really dug this beer, dude. I was a little concerned, 895 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,719 Speaker 1: to be honest with you. We're drinking this one out 896 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 1: of a crowler, which is uh, basically think of a 897 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 1: giant can. It's like a little mini oil drum. Basically, 898 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,839 Speaker 1: it's like giant and crowler. By the way, it's it's 899 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,920 Speaker 1: a it's a word smash with can and growler, and 900 00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:54,000 Speaker 1: so it's like a thirty two ounce can and they 901 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,360 Speaker 1: fill it on the spot there with the draft. You 902 00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: know that they would feel your pine class with when 903 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: you're there drinking in person, I will say this is 904 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,919 Speaker 1: really good. I've really enjoyed this one. It tastes really fresh, 905 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:04,319 Speaker 1: even though it's you know, a couple of weeks old. 906 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,359 Speaker 1: But I really enjoyed it. It It was juicy, it had 907 00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: that dank copy noess going on, while at the same 908 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: time not being too bitter. Like you mentioned, this is 909 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 1: a New England style I p A, but it's not, 910 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 1: you know, completely milky like sometimes some of these doing 911 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,600 Speaker 1: the I pas like you can't even see through it all. 912 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:19,920 Speaker 1: Like this one has a little bit of opacity going on. 913 00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:22,040 Speaker 1: So it's like a nice blend between the traditional I 914 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,799 Speaker 1: p A with that New England kind of dankness going on. 915 00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:28,400 Speaker 1: And yeah, really easy to drink. Really enjoy this one, buddy, opacity, 916 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: I like it. The opacity is a photoshop term from 917 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,640 Speaker 1: my graphic design days, so you adjust the opacity there 918 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 1: with the different layers to you know, make things more 919 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: or less invisible. Gotcha, Okay, And Ellipsis adjusted it to 920 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,200 Speaker 1: where it wasn't too open. Yeah, man, this was great, 921 00:39:43,200 --> 00:39:45,319 Speaker 1: and I agree it didn't really lose a step even 922 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: being in the Crowler for for a couple of weeks. 923 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,120 Speaker 1: This beer was super green, a lot of hot flavor 924 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: coming out strong. I really enjoyed it, and next time 925 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,799 Speaker 1: I'm in Orlando, I'm going back Ellipsus Brewing. Even though 926 00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,480 Speaker 1: it's in some sort of like commercial strip mall, especially 927 00:39:58,640 --> 00:40:00,960 Speaker 1: it's a terrible location with the beer solid enough that 928 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:03,000 Speaker 1: it's worth the track. Yeah, we pulled up and I thought, really, 929 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,239 Speaker 1: this is actually gonna be that good, But it really was. 930 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,359 Speaker 1: You can't judge a book by its cover, buddy, That's true. 931 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,080 Speaker 1: All right, man, Well that's gonna do it for this episode. 932 00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:10,839 Speaker 1: And for folks that want to check out the show 933 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,000 Speaker 1: notes for this episode, we'll go to how to money 934 00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,920 Speaker 1: dot com. And wherever you're listening to this episode, you 935 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,920 Speaker 1: want to make sure that you are subscribed, So head 936 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: over there, hit that subscribe button, and if you haven't already, 937 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,600 Speaker 1: head over to Apple Podcasts where you can rate and 938 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,440 Speaker 1: review us. That helps us to get the word out. 939 00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,359 Speaker 1: It helps others to find this podcast and you can 940 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: help them to get on a path to doing smart 941 00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:29,520 Speaker 1: things with their money. Yeah, man, And for folks who 942 00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: have friends whose behavioral tendency is to not listen to 943 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,640 Speaker 1: this podcast, they should really help them overcome that too, 944 00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,799 Speaker 1: right and tell a friend, well, really, what you just 945 00:40:36,840 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: snatched the phone out of their hand? Pull up Apple 946 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,919 Speaker 1: Podcasts and hit subscribe from there, Yeah, hit subscribe for them. 947 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,520 Speaker 1: It really helps It helps them, and it helps them, man, 948 00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,160 Speaker 1: It helps to like what is the show that keep 949 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:48,279 Speaker 1: showing with my alright man, Well, that's gonna be it 950 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: for this episode until next time. Best Friends Out, Best 951 00:40:50,760 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: Friends Out,